July 7, 2025 âą 35 mins
đ§ Significant Recruiting Podcast | Featuring Coach Chris Bunch, Webster UniversityÂ
In this episode of Significant Recruiting, Matt Rogers sits down with Coach Chris Bunch, longtime Head Menâs Basketball Coach at Webster University, to break down what really matters in the recruiting process.Â
Coach Bunch shares:Â
- What catches his attention when evaluating a recruit
- Why character, communication, and toughness go further than talent alone
- Common mistakes athletes and families make when contacting D3 programs
- What makes Division III basketball uniqueâand often misunderstood
Whether you're a student-athlete, parent, or coach, this episode is packed with insights from one of the most trusted and experienced voices in small college basketball.
Â
đ Looking for tools to guide your journey?
 Visit CoachMattRogers.com to grab the book Significant Recruiting, explore The Softball Recruitâs Journal, sign up for the Significant Recruiting Launchpad course , or schedule a free recruiting strategy session with Coach Matt today.
Learn more and connect with Matt Rogers here: https://linktr.ee/coachmattrogers
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
And sometimes you're playingthat guy and a parent or a fan.
Doesn't understand why you'replaying that guy.
When my son can beat him in agame of one-on-one, and I'm
like, that's great.
If we break out and have aone-on-one tournament here, I'll
put your son out there.
(00:24):
Hey, welcome back to SignificantRecruiting.
I'm Coach Matt Rogers, and todayI'm joined by a longtime friend
and one of the most respectedvoices in small college
basketball coach Chris Bunch,head men's basketball coach at
Webster University.
Chris has been building a strongcompetitive and character driven
program at Webster for over twodecades.
(00:44):
In this episode, we talk aboutwhat he looks for in a recruit,
how families can stand out inall the noise and the biggest
misconceptions.
Athletes have about Divisionthree basketball.
Whether you're just starting therecruiting journey or trying to
close out the process withpurpose, this conversation is
packed with wisdom from a coachwho truly gets it.
And don't forget, if you'relooking for guidance, tools, or
(01:07):
coaching to help navigate thecollege recruiting process,
please visit coach mattrogers.com.
You'll find both of my booksSignificant Recruiting and the
Softball Recruits Journal.
You'll find details about thesignificant.
Recruiting Launchpad courseseries and you can even schedule
a free one-on-one recruiting orcoaching strategy session with
me.
(01:27):
All right, let's jump into it.
Here's the second part of myconversation with Coach Chris
Bunch.
Coach, I want to jump right intokind of what you're teaching
your staff on what to look for,what to say to recruits.
Absolutely.
I had two new guys this year andthey wanted, we, when we first
(01:49):
high school seasons rollingaround, we're gonna start
recruiting.
I said, I want you to understandone thing.
if you go watch a kid.
He gets teed up if he, show youknow all over the refs and gets
teed up or thrown outta the gameif he's yelling back at his
coach.
In a timeout or walking off thefloor, the coach says something
(02:10):
to him and he yells at hiscoach, or he's yelling, he's
calling his teammates idiots outthere on the floor or whatever.
If a guy yanks his jersey offand throws it up in the crowd
and flips the crowd off, walkingoutta the gym as he's going out,
I said, if you hear him yellingat somebody up in the crowd, you
know any of these things.
If you see any of those things,I don't care how good he is.
(02:33):
I said, get up and walk away.
Because we can find somebodyelse that will be maybe as good
as him that won't do thosethings that we won't have to
deal with.
And I said, I've done it beforewhen I've had visits.
Somebody's mother would try andask me a question and the kid
(02:53):
would go, oh, mom, shut up.
And I'm just like, man, ifyou'll, it's like I start
thinking about my exit strategyas soon as that happens because
I'm like, if you'll say that toyour mother, you'll say that to
anybody, and it's and so it'sthe kids don't understand my
assistant.
My he's big, he's always talkedabout it.
(03:14):
Body language, mannerisms speakvolumes.
They say that what, 90%, 80 to90% of communication is
nonverbal communication.
I.
Yeah.
If I have to deal with somebodythat's rolling their eyes every
time I say something that when Isay, Hey, let's going, we're
gonna try this today.
And then two guys go, and it'sit erodes everything for
(03:36):
everyone.
And I said, look for bodylanguage Communication is huge.
Are they communicating not justwith their coach, with their
teammates, with the officials?
People in the stands.
I watched a kid this year whentheir team was finished, he
walked through the bleachers andwas picking up the trash, not
the trash that his team hadleft, the trash that everybody
(03:57):
had left and was throwing itaway as they left.
And I said, that's, you don'tsee people do that all the time.
that says something right thereabout a kid, so that's the first
thing we're looking at, and theother thing that I think, is how
do you handle E?
Everybody's great wheneverything's going man, I'm the
happiest, nicest guy in theworld.
(04:17):
When everything's going well,how are you when things aren't
going well?
Because newsflash, it's been myexperience over 37 years of
coaching that things go wrongmore than things go right in a
basketball game.
Yes.
you make all these plans, andthen two minutes in the game,
you're down 10 to nothing andit's, you've made four turnovers
and it's going south.
(04:37):
That's right.
how are you going to respond tothat?
Because, there are 38 moreminutes to go.
Are we gonna say, Let's regroup.
Let's get going.
Okay, we're down.
here we go.
or are we just gonna lose ourminds?
I think that is a huge thing,and I think it's a thing that
even as much as I hear peopletalk about it all the time, I
still think it is something thatparents and recruits need to
(05:01):
hear because that is such a hugeturnoff that body language.
Communication piece to it.
It doesn't matter if you candunk, it doesn't matter if you
can shoot the three.
It doesn't matter if you're agreat ball handling whiz.
This other piece to it is soimportant to the everyday aspect
(05:26):
of what you're doing.
I tell my guys all the time, thereason I do this, I love people
I'm in it for the kids, and I amin it for the kids, but why do I
do it?
Part of why I do it is this lastyear especially, but for the
last several years it's beenthis way.
I get up, I walk out the door, Igo in there, and that's two
(05:46):
hours that day that I get toenjoy some guys and us all
together doing what we do.
and so I'm looking for peoplethat can come into that realm
and be and keep that the way Ilike it to be.
Everybody always talks aboutculture, but it's like, how are
(06:06):
people going to fit in?
Because if you're not going tofit in, you're going to upset
every single thing.
That we're trying to do here.
And so we're looking for peoplethat we think will be great fits
for how we like to do things.
we're gonna play hard, we'regonna practice hard, we're gonna
compete.
You get some guys in a rebounddrill every now and then.
(06:27):
it gets a little spicy, and it'sand that's okay because in a
game it's gonna get spicysometimes.
Yeah.
At the end of the day,everybody's on the same team.
We're all pulling in the samedirection.
We're all working for the samegoal.
I'm looking for guys that willfit into that.
Yeah, more than maybe anythingelse that I'm looking for.
(06:48):
Obviously you're looking forskills, right?
I need shooter.
I'm gonna go look at a shooter.
I need a guy rebound.
I'm gonna go guy.
Look at guys that can rebound.
But beyond that's what I'mlooking for.
I wanna put some context to thisbecause I think what makes you
such a great leader is yourability to take the diversity of
(07:10):
what you've had on your roster.
Where maybe the average persondoesn't see how those parts.
Fit together.
I think of your 2005 team.
The difference in personalities.
You had some kids that were soshy and so soft spoken and Yeah.
And you had some, just some bigpersonalities.
Yeah.
And get me the ball.
There's two seconds left, butthe way they all fit together
(07:33):
and the way they cared abouteach other.
Yeah.
So the context part of this is Iwant parents to understand this
about you is, and about allcoaches.
When we're recruiting, we'realso thinking about the stages
of that young man or that youngwoman's development.
How long is it gonna take me toget them to where they can be a
(07:54):
contributor?
Then contributor, how do we getthem to be a major role player?
Does that kid have the abilityto be a kid that can carry us
for seven or eight minutes in agame?
Yes.
And those are all stages that wego through.
And if we're watching a kid inthe first two minutes, we're
going, I.
They're fighting theirteammates.
They're fighting their coach.
They're lazy.
(08:15):
They're not working hard.
I'm already seeing a lack ofeffort.
All of a sudden, that growththat we're envisioning in our
mind, we're seeing that growthhappen slower and slower as we
look out for years, right?
Yes, absolutely.
And go, why would I do that tomyself?
Yes.
We're not recruiting what wesee, we're not recruiting black
(08:36):
and white.
We're recruiting the potentialof what we're, of what that kid
is showing us in theircharacter, their attitude, their
effort, their energy, right?
And all of that unseen stuff.
I think people that are not inthe team sport realm, they just
go get the five best players.
(08:56):
That's right.
you look at the USA Olympicteam, the five most talented,
most decorated, most laudedplayers were not on the floor
together a lot of the time.
you look out there in the gamesthat were tough, leBron's out
there, or Kevin during whatever,and.
Not that Derrick White's not agreat player because he is, but
Derrick White or Drew Holidaysout there with him and I'm like,
(09:19):
Hey, wait a minute.
You know where's, wait a minute.
Where's, and it's because I hadto learn that a long time ago,
is your five most talentedplayers is rarely your best
combination.
my dad used to tell me when Iwas younger, he'd say, brother,
you got too many cooks in thekitchen.
and I used to laugh and say,there's a lot of truth to that.
(09:40):
There's one basketball, and soeverybody's, you've got to make,
it's got to work where everybodyworks together.
and so I've learned over timethat it takes a lot of different
pieces.
And sometimes you're playingthat guy and a parent or a fan.
Doesn't understand why you'replaying that guy.
When my son can beat him in agame of one-on-one, and I'm
(10:03):
like, that's great.
If we break out and have aone-on-one tournament here, I'll
put your son out there.
And it's but that's not whatwe're doing here, Yes.
and I've said that to our guys alot in our skilled, we talk at
the end of the year and I'vesaid.
If you're going, you need to go,you wanna be better next year,
go play basketball.
Find some games out there, findsome old guys playing, find some
(10:23):
college guys playing.
Go play basketball because youcan do the, you can put the
basketballs in the trash bagsand dribble and do all the stuff
on social media and all thatstuff.
You can get in a gym and shootfour hours on the gun a day,
which is not wrong, which is notterrible, If you wanna be good
at playing basketball, when theythrow the ball up, there's gonna
be five dudes out there on eachteam and you have to be able to
(10:46):
manipulate playing basketball.
And so all the skill work in theworld doesn't help you if you
don't play basketball.
And so I think sometimes that'sthe aspect that goes unnoticed
is how did those pieces.
Fit together.
That's right.
And sometimes I think,'causeyou're just in there every day
(11:07):
with them and you see how itstarts shaping up and how things
start, you know how it's going.
rarely are your five bestplayers your best combination.
I told this to a parent theother day.
they asked me a similarquestion.
I said, when's the last time youdrove down the road and you saw
an outdoor basketball hoop andyou saw a game being played?
You saw a pickup game, peoplejust there to play basketball.
(11:29):
I can't remember the last time Isaw a pickup game or just a kid
in the garage, on the drivewayshooting a basket.
That's how I grew up.
I know that's how you grew up,right?
Wherever there was a game, man,I was there blacktop, rough, no
rough rain.
It didn't matter.
A hundred degrees.
We played and that's how we gotbetter.
So it's great.
Absolutely great advice.
let's say perfect world.
(11:50):
You've done your recruitment forthe next year's class and you've
narrowed it down, you've foundall those kids that have that
character, the work ethic youlike.
Let's say it's all there.
You need a point guard.
What are one or two of thosethings about a point guard that
you're gonna offer that justgets you giggly, gets you happy,
(12:10):
makes you feel like that's a kidwe gotta have that makes my
program better.
I'm old school.
Okay.
I still watch, if you ask mewhat kind of basketball, I watch
YouTube.
My wife says YouTube has beenthe bane of my existence'cause I
can get on there and findanything, she comes in and
she'll go, really?
I'll be watching the 1974 NBAAll-Star game.
(12:32):
Those were the guys that Iidolized.
Kareem and Dave Cowans and jojoWhite.
And you know who?
George?
George Gervin.
George Gervin, yeah.
Dr.
Jay.
Like Dr.
Jay.
I watch that stuff.
I watch a 82 Lakers, 76 ERschampionship game, and I think
everybody should do that becausethey just think, oh, these guys
in the last 20 years that's theonly people that never saw Larry
(12:53):
Bird play have no concept of howhard that guy was I see podcasts
of guys sitting around talkingabout that.
Guys say, yeah, we all, wethought Larry couldn't play
either.
It's and it's but, so I watchthose kinds of things.
And so I grew up in a worldwhere the point guard was the
facilitator, the quarterback onthe floor, the coach on the
(13:14):
floor, all of that.
The game has changed and youhave to be able to score some,
but I'm, I still look for thatguy that can, and I've talked to
our guys about this a lot.
Hey, be able to get, when wegive up six points in a row.
Get us in and me or coach BradFish yells some set from the
(13:37):
sideline or some action.
Can you get us, do you knowwhich side of the floor to go to
get us the guy that needs to beshooting this next shot?
Because man, we just gave up sixor eight in a row and we need
our best player taking a goodshot this next trip.
Are you going to hey look, we'regonna run this play, but man,
the shooter is over there.
(13:57):
It's don't run this play.
And we get the worst shooter onthe team, open for a shot, run
it to the other side where weget the best shooter on the team
coming off the screen for thatshot.
That's right.
And so when I tell our talk toour point guards and our
practices, it's like you have tobe able to see that.
If you can't see that we're,it's gonna hold us back, we're
not gonna be as good.
As we could be.
Ryan Turk was one of the bestguards I ever had at that, and
(14:21):
he wasn't quick, he wasn'texplosive.
but I said, I always said youcould put cones and things out
there.
That dude might have to back youup and cross over and go back
and forth, and he might have totake 10 dribbles, but he'd get
to where he needed to go.
For you to run what you neededto run.
When we had him and DarrenHaggett, for example.
Yep.
He could get over to DarrenHaggett side of the floor, even
(14:44):
if you were trying to keep himfrom getting over to that side
of the floor.
And I said, you have to be ableto see the bigger picture and
see what we're trying to do.
Yep.
those kinds of things, I think,the whole setting and times, and
I've told, I had a, so mysophomore point guard this year,
I'd say, look Joe.
You're gonna be out there andyou're gonna be the youngest guy
on the floor.
(15:06):
I don't care about that.
If somebody's in the wrong spot,you got to tell'em they're in
the wrong spot.
That's, and get'em in the rightspot in two seconds.
And you can't be like, I reallydon't feel like that'cause he's
older than me.
No.
You've got to take that kind ofleadership.
That's right.
and so I look for those thingsprobably more in a point guard.
(15:26):
Than anything else.
Because if you're not doingthis, if you're not doing this,
you ain't the point guard.
Because if you're not directing,if you're afraid to lead older
guys, absolutely.
You are not the point guard.
Absolutely.
You are just a guard handlingthe ball.
I went to watch a high schoolgame this year and I wasn't even
watching this team.
I'm watching the other team, andthey had a freshman point guard.
A whole team full of juniors andseniors and man, he was running
(15:50):
that show and I was like, thatis impressive.
That kid is 14 or 15 years old.
Yep.
And he is the guy in charge andthey all know it.
And they're, they're not, he'snot the only one that thinks
that.
Yeah.
They understand that.
And I said, that's impressive,especially in high school, that
you can have that kind ofsituation because it's very
difficult for a young person tohave that kind of, I.
(16:13):
Be willing to take charge likethat.
And I would assume that FreshmanPoint Guard is on a list
somewhere in your office.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah.
See, and again, you didn't hearCoach Bunch talk about how many
points he scored, if the teamwon or lost, what?
How the game played itself out.
He was looking for a skillsetand an environment of control
(16:35):
and the ability to diagnose andmake the team better and think
big picture.
So love it.
All right.
Shooting guard, and.
I know the world has changedwith shooting guards.
I know we have seven footers forthe Knicks that are shooting
guards now.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
That are 260 pounds and shooting11 threes a game.
But I'm talking about that kidthat can run off of screens,
(16:57):
that can guard a two.
What are you looking for in thatshooter?
They have to have confidence andI've probably, I've had
assistance Tell me.
That I probably kill confidencesometimes because it's I, before
this past year, the threeprevious years, we were one of
(17:17):
the worst 25 3 point shootingteams in the country.
And I would put the guy in thatis a shooter.
And the first shot he took wouldhit the side of the backboard.
And I'm like, that does notinstill confidence in me when I,
hey, you don't have to make it,but man, I need you to do
something besides hit the sideof the backboard with the first
shot you take.
And it's and so they'll say,coach, it's hard.
(17:37):
I'm like, Hey look, I ain'tsaying I can yelling at him
'cause he missed, I'm yelling athim because he wasn't even in
the same zip code.
It's and so it's, it's a verydifficult skill and I've told
our guys that before.
I say, Hey, look guys, I was ashooter in college.
The only time I played incollege, I played with two guys
that were superior basketballplayers.
And when somebody played us azone when I was a sophomore,
he'd yell down the bench, Chris,get in there.
(17:59):
It was like.
I was supposed to go in thereand put up shots and make shots,
there's pressure in that.
I understand that, now I don'twant you to go in there.
The first touch you shoot a 27footer and you ain't even ran
down the floor yet, but after atrip or two, you know what
you're in there for.
Yeah.
there has to be a confidencelevel.
I missed two or three shots in arow and I still think I can make
(18:23):
the next one.
And sometimes that gets you introuble.
That got me in trouble.
I remember one guy laughed onetime in college.
I shot us clean out of a game.
We were down nine and he said,Chris, get in there.
And I went, oh, for five withtwo air balls.
And we were down 19 When I cameout, he was like you didn't have
it today.
but the next game I didn't go,oh gosh, I'm not gonna shoot
because I'm afraid I'm going tofail.
That's the difference.
you have to feel like.
(18:45):
He's got me in here because I'mgiving him a good chance to make
shots and help us win this game.
my job's to shoot the ball if Istop shooting the ball, why is
he keeping me on the floor?
Exactly.
And I've even talked to some ofmy kids in the program that are
good shooters.
I'm like, you wanna play moreand you better be better.
Branch out.
And be able to do some otherstuff.
(19:06):
if you are just a shooter when Iput you in the game, then if
you're not making shots, then Ihave to take you outta the game
because somebody else does theother stuff better.
So you better be able to do someother stuff along with that.
But confidence is such a thingand the confidence is built in
the gym on your own.
(19:27):
Josh Johnson, who played for meand was a senior in 2020, he was
conference player of the year.
Probably the best shooter I everhad.
And he scored 31 night onsomebody.
and I came in the next day andthe baseball coach is sitting in
my office and he goes, I stayedhere'cause I wanted to see you
come in.
And I said, why?
He goes,'cause I wanna show youthe Facebook post I just posted.
(19:49):
Now our baseball team is liketop topnotch.
They're like in the top 20 everyyear.
He sent it to his guys a pictureof Josh at six 30 that morning
with the gun set up, shooting onthe gun the next morning, the
night after he scored 30 or 32.
And he goes, boys, let me tellyou something.
This is what commitment lookslike right here.
And he goes, you wanna, he goes,you wanna know what, you don't
(20:11):
wanna know what commitment lookslike.
This is it right here, and hegoes, he, I sent that to my
whole team.
And it, you have to, if you'vedone the work.
You will have the confidencethat, yes, I'll make this shot.
Love it, but shooter's gottahave confidence.
Remind me when we're done.
I've got a 2027 to, now thatyou're saying all this, I've got
a 27 shooting guard I need youto look at.
(20:33):
Okay.
All right.
Yeah.
talk about confidence.
It's through the roof with thiskid.
All right.
let's talk about your wings.
What are you looking for?
For me, it was always theathlete.
I had got my shooter, I got mypoint guard.
I want a kid that can maybe do alittle bit of everything, but
it's gotta be an athlete.
Is that what you're looking forin a wing?
(20:53):
Are you looking for somethingelse?
Yes.
I think, it's been so hard inthis league.
To get good big people.
Yeah.
Carl, the guy I just mentionedthat was the leading shop
blocker in rebut in schoolhistory.
He was barely six four.
Yeah.
He was strong as a bull, but hewas in a good leaper and all
that.
But he wasn't tall, and he is wewere always the biggest team in
the league When you werecoaching.
(21:13):
I always had a bunch of bigguys, right?
Some point it turned on me and acoach one time said to me,
Chris, I really like how youswitched your philosophy.
And went from big to being thatquick and athletic.
And I said, Hey, I didn't makethat choice.
That choice got made for me.
I'd go back to being bigtomorrow if I could.
so I've always gotten a lot ofmileage in the last.
(21:36):
10, 15 years out of 6, 3, 6 4guys that could guard smaller
than them if they had to, thatcould guard bigger than them if
they had to.
And whether you're playing man,or whether we're playing two,
three zone, I say this to kidsall the time too.
If you want the best chance toplay, don't be a one trick pony.
(21:57):
Don't be a guy that can, oh, Ijust play the wing on the zone.
Because maybe in a game I mightneed somebody to play the top or
God forbid the base of the zone.
Can you do that I might leaveyou out there and put somebody
else in and just say, Hey, goplay the base two trips till we
can get to the two minute markor whatever.
(22:18):
And so I look for guys that areversatile defensively,
especially, can they rebound?
Are they, do they have someversatility to'em That makes
every, that makes you so muchmore well-rounded.
We play, four out, one in motionand I tell our guys all the
time, don't know the one, don'tknow the five, know what it is
(22:42):
that we're doing.
If we're running an action, ifwe're running a special set or
something, coach, I only knowthe spot from the four you
probably aren't gonna get toplay if I don't need a four, and
so it's hey coach, I can run thefive if you need me to.
It is like good run at thistime, and just those kids play
more those because in a game, Idon't always go, okay, let me
see now I wanna run this play,and who do I have in there?
(23:04):
I've got five seconds to, someguy gets his four foul, I've got
five seconds to grab somebodyand sling'em out there.
And then you go to run a set andgo, oh God, we need a format or
we need a two, or whatever.
Can you go, Hey coach.
No, I got it.
And just jump in that spot ifyou can.
You're gonna play more.
That's right.
and so especially with thewings, we're looking for that.
(23:26):
We're looking for versatility.
can you play smaller?
Can you play bigger?
Can you rebound, can you handlethe ball a little bit if you
have to, if somebody's pressingthis Greenville University, can
you make a shot?
Can you drive a little bit?
the more of that stuff thoseguys can do.
The better chance they have ofplaying, the better chance we
have of being good.
Yeah.
And don't think for a secondcoach is talking from just a D
(23:49):
three perspective.
This is everywhere.
If you're a wing and you'reversatile and you can rebound
and you can guard and you canshoot a little bit and you can
put the ball on the floor.
There's a place for youeverywhere.
Yep.
Alright, coach Bigs.
And I know that's a, that is areally tough thing to throw at
you.
'cause there's all sorts ofdifferent types of bigs,
especially now'cause there's alot of fours that are shooters
that, a lot of bigs don't playthe back to the basket anymore.
(24:12):
What are you looking for?
What gets you excited about afour or five?
I tell our, I tell any postplayer that we're recruiting
because even the ones that can'tshoot a lick.
Think they're a stretch four.
They'll tell you, coach, I'm athree.
You're a stretch four.
It's no, you're not, but okayI'll work with that for now.
But there are guys that canshoot it, it's like, and so I
(24:33):
tell every big guy I'mrecruiting, I don't care what
you do offensively.
And they look at me andsometimes their parents look at
me funny.
And I'll say, I need guys thatcan rebound.
I need guys that can defendother big guys.
I need guys that are mobile.
I need guys that will run thefloor.
Can you do all that?
If you're a 40% three pointshooter, we'll put you out there
(24:56):
somewhere in a position whereyou can shoot some threes if you
can't, and all you can do isshoot layups, you'll be, you
might be in the dunker spot onthe baseline or on in the post
but it's a, it's, I make all ourbig guys in practice do post
moves.
Sometimes I have wings, I'llhave my guards.
I've got a guard.
My, my returning all conferenceplayer is six, one or two, and
(25:19):
he's just been the second leanrebounder on our team for all
three years he's played.
And I've seen coaches, a coupleof coaches have left their,
Scouting reports or somebodyleft a scouting report laying
around in the locker room andthey call him the power Forward
and he's like our two guard, buthe gets more rebounds than
anybody and he's the bestoffensive rebounder on the team
and all of that stuff.
I sometimes send Jamar down withthe posts to work on post moves
(25:43):
because I'm like, you're gonnabe the guy getting the ball
around a basket.
You gotta be able to up andunder some guy and finish with
the left hand.
That's right.
More so than some of thesebigger guys.
And so we do a lot of that.
Sometimes we'll go through apractice and I'll have
everybody, I'll have the guardsdo all the post moves.
We're gonna shoot jump hooks,we're gonna shoot dribble hooks,
we're gonna shoot, drop stepsand I have everybody do that.
(26:05):
Because I think it is a lost arta little bit.
Agree.
I agree.
And I tell all of our big guys,I have to be able, when we go
play bigger teams and biggerteams non-conference, I have to
have guys that can rebound andget us out of possessions
defensively.
I have to have guys that canguard.
If somebody has a 6, 7, 6, 8, 6,9 guy inside that can score.
(26:27):
You have to be able to turn himaway from the way he wants to
turn.
And make him finish with someother move besides what he wants
to do.
And can you do that?
Don't worry about the offensivepart.
we'll figure it out.
If you shoot three, you canshoot threes.
If you can't, you'll dosomething else.
You'll set ball screens,whatever.
I don't care what you dooffensively.
I care what you do defensivelyin that regard.
(26:50):
Love it.
and if I always tell guys, canyou shoot it?
I'll figure it out in practice.
I'll see it every day.
If you can shoot 40 from three,I'll let you shoot some threes.
If you shoot 15 from three,newsflash, you ain't gonna be
shooting any threes.
So obviously the gun's out atsix 30 in the morning, so if you
want to get that percentage up.
Exactly.
there's a time and a place foryou.
Yeah.
Yep.
One piece of advice for familiesgoing through the recruiting
(27:14):
process.
They want to play for CoachBunch.
They wanna play at Webster.
They wanna play D three.
how do they get your attentioncoach?
How do they get you to look at'em?
Two pieces of advice.
And one of those is not anattention thing.
I think no matter who you are,talk to every coach.
'cause you never know how that'sgonna come back around to you.
(27:35):
You think you're a division twoplayer and you go to a division
two and they red shirt and youdon't play and you want, at some
point you go I want to justplay.
Maybe you gotta, maybe you endup circling back around to that
guy and if you told him, no,coach, I'm not a D three guy,
I'm not interested in you, thenyou know, you may be going back
to that guy at some point andsaying, Hey coach, can I come
(27:56):
play for you?
And so don't ever.
Don't ever dismiss anybody.
Some of the best conversationsI've ever had have been going to
an A U tournament.
And I don't know where kids aregoing and I'm just there seeing
is any kid that I can see.
Most of'em, it's not like adivision one coach that goes
there to see one guy and thenleaves.
I'm going there just to seeanybody that I can maybe see I
(28:17):
had a guy one time go, Hey CoachMunch, I really appreciate,
thanks, but I've already earlysigned with Indiana.
He's he wasn't the mostexplosive athletically, but he
was like six five.
He could shoot, he could handlethe ball.
He's he kinda looks like a Dthree guy.
let me call him and just seewhat he's got.
He's coach, I early sign withIndiana and I'm like, I felt
like an idiot, but he was asnice as he could be.
(28:38):
And he's coach, He asked me alittle bit where you guys at?
and talked a little bit.
I said, Hey, good luck to you.
And I was like, I told somebodythe next day, I said I wanted to
just, if I could have recordedthat call, I wouldn't have said
That's how you interact with acollege basketball coach that's
interested in you, whether youare or not.
That's right.
So don't so listen to everybody.
Consider everybody.
(28:59):
but then call everybody backthat calls you, call everybody
back.
Respond.
Respond immediately.
And I get it in this day and agekids, because everybody's been
raised on their phones,especially since COVID, it's
like everybody got to the COVIDsociety, the social media
society, and texting andemailing and whatever.
(29:19):
I say this all the time torecruits and they still don't do
it because I realize it'suncomfortable for them.
It's uncomfortable for me, as a58-year-old.
It's really uncomfortable for an18-year-old, but just tell me
you're not interested.
Thank you, coach, but I'mlooking for something else or
thank you, coach, but I actuallyam looking at these two schools.
(29:40):
I appreciate your interest.
In fact, I'm gonna think more ofyou if you do that Exactly than
if you just ghost me for, andcontact you for a month before I
just go, okay.
He's not interested, I just didit the other day.
I was, I hadn't heard from a kidin a month.
I was writing him off and hesent me a text, Hey coach, I was
like wait a minute.
He's back in flight.
Because just respond quickly.
(30:01):
That's right.
and either way, yes or no.
I think communication is keythere.
Just respond to coaches.
But if you're interested, Ithink you have to do the work.
I hear so many people say thismy high school coach didn't get
me a scholarship, or My highschool coach didn't help me get
recruited.
(30:22):
That may be true, that may notbe true.
Don't rely on your high schoolcoach to get you recruited.
Get out there, send videos,contact coaches, be proactive in
your recruiting.
Because you don't know thenumber of times that I've just
went, for example, I had a guyhere graduate two years ago, win
(30:44):
Brown Junior, we called him jr.
He was from Memphis, sent me anemail in June.
Coach, I'm just looking for aplace to play.
I'm a five nine point guard.
the only reason I looked at it's'cause being from Tennessee, I
knew the high school that heplayed for and they were really
good.
I clicked on the link and I waslike, yeah, that kid's skilled.
(31:05):
Now he's small, but he'sskilled.
He came here, played as a, that2020 team.
I won two years in a row.
We went 31 and five in theconference in 2019 and 2020.
When 2020 he was a freshman.
He ended up starting and beingthe fifth man on that team and
averaged.
10 a game in conference as afreshman.
(31:25):
The next 5 7, 5 7, 5 7 and like120 pounds.
Now, the next three years, hewas our best player.
He ended up being the fifth, alltime leading score in school
history.
Amazing.
The only reason I ever looked atthat dude is'cause he sent me an
email and I went, I know thatschool.
Let me look and see.
And there's times I don't.
'cause you just get inundatedwith them and no, every coach is
(31:48):
human.
Nobody's going to check'em allout.
But I looked at that one emailand got one of the best players
I ever had in 23 years here, andso it's, you be proactive and
send emails to places.
I had a guy one time I heard,and he did, he gave a good piece
of advice.
He said, send a couple ofstretch contacts.
(32:09):
if you think you're a divisiontwo player, maybe send a.
Something out to a couple ofdivision one schools that you
lower level division one schoolsthat you might be a stretch that
you could ever play there, butsend a couple of emails to the D
three schools that you might beinterested in because you might
not get what you think you'regoing to get and you might need
(32:29):
to go play there and then sendemails to the level that you
think you're at Don't, I thinkyou have to be proactive in your
recruiting.
and don't just rely on your highschool coach.
Don't rely on your service orwhatever.
Those are all good things andthose are all good avenues and
those can all be very helpful.
But don't rely on that.
(32:51):
You take the initiative, be theowner, be the CEO of owner
recruitment, be the boss.
And the other thing I might sayis be realistic.
Be realistic.
There, there are so many thingsout there where, guys contact me
or I contact a guy and he's nocoach.
I'm going, I want a D one or dor I have guys contact me and
(33:13):
it's a five eight point guardand he goes, coach I'm I I just
wanna go there to start with.
Talk with your high schoolcoach, talk with your a u
coaches, whoever, and get a feelfor where you could possibly end
up maybe you catch lightning ina bottle and you get to where
you think you want to get tobecause guys do that.
but take ownership in that.
Love it.
(33:34):
Coach, we may have to do anannual Crisp bunch episode
because I just I feel like wetalk and I'm like, oh my God, I
told I promised you an hour andwe're an hour 40 in.
It's like we can go another twohours.
It's alright.
Thank you.
From the bottom of my heart.
Please give my best toChristine.
We miss you guys a ton.
I appreciate it.
If anybody out there is lookingfor advice from recruiting,
(33:56):
coach Bunch wrote the chaptereight coach's perspective in my
book, significant Recruiting,and it's fantastic.
All these golden nuggets he'sthrown at you today, what he
wrote in the book is equallyfantastic and I'm so thankful
that you did that for me.
Brother, I love you.
I'm so thankful to have you inmy life, so thankful that these
boys have you in their life,and, whatever you need, you got
(34:18):
me.
Thank you for doing this.
I appreciate you, man.
I love you too.
I enjoy this.
it's fun just to get and talkabout basketball.
I don't get enough opportunityto do this, so I appreciate it.
It's just gold.
Good luck this season.
hope you get some rest thissummer and, we'll look forward
to next conversation.
All right, thank you, Matt.
What a great conversation withCoach Chris Bunch.
His honesty, experience, andperspective are a gift to any
(34:40):
family going through therecruiting journey, and a
reminder that characterconsistency and communication
still matter to great collegecoaches.
If you found this episodehelpful, take a moment to
subscribe, leave a review.
And share it with another familyor coach who's walking this same
road.
And remember, if you need helpwith your recruiting journey,
(35:00):
I've got resources built justfor you@coachmattrogers.com.
You can pick up a copy of mybook, significant Recruiting,
grab the softball Recruitsjournal, Or check out the
Significant Launchpad coursedesigned to help families take
control of the process.
You can also schedule a freerecruiting or coaching strategy
session with me right on thesite.
(35:20):
I'd love to connect with you.
Thanks again for listening, andas always, don't just chase
success, live, lead, and recruitwith significance.
And sometimes you're playingthat guy and a parent or a fan.
Doesn't understand why you'replaying that guy.
When my son can beat him in agame of one-on-one, and I'm
like, that's great.
If we break out and have aone-on-one tournament here, I'll
put your son out there.
(00:24):
Hey, welcome back to SignificantRecruiting.
I'm Coach Matt Rogers, and todayI'm joined by a longtime friend
and one of the most respectedvoices in small college
basketball coach Chris Bunch,head men's basketball coach at
Webster University.
Chris has been building a strongcompetitive and character driven
program at Webster for over twodecades.
(00:44):
In this episode, we talk aboutwhat he looks for in a recruit,
how families can stand out inall the noise and the biggest
misconceptions.
Athletes have about Divisionthree basketball.
Whether you're just starting therecruiting journey or trying to
close out the process withpurpose, this conversation is
packed with wisdom from a coachwho truly gets it.
And don't forget, if you'relooking for guidance, tools, or
(01:07):
coaching to help navigate thecollege recruiting process,
please visit coach mattrogers.com.
You'll find both of my booksSignificant Recruiting and the
Softball Recruits Journal.
You'll find details about thesignificant.
Recruiting Launchpad courseseries and you can even schedule
a free one-on-one recruiting orcoaching strategy session with
me.
(01:27):
All right, let's jump into it.
Here's the second part of myconversation with Coach Chris
Bunch.
Coach, I want to jump right intokind of what you're teaching
your staff on what to look for,what to say to recruits.
Absolutely.
I had two new guys this year andthey wanted, we, when we first
(01:49):
high school seasons rollingaround, we're gonna start
recruiting.
I said, I want you to understandone thing.
if you go watch a kid.
He gets teed up if he, show youknow all over the refs and gets
teed up or thrown outta the gameif he's yelling back at his
coach.
In a timeout or walking off thefloor, the coach says something
(02:10):
to him and he yells at hiscoach, or he's yelling, he's
calling his teammates idiots outthere on the floor or whatever.
If a guy yanks his jersey offand throws it up in the crowd
and flips the crowd off, walkingoutta the gym as he's going out,
I said, if you hear him yellingat somebody up in the crowd, you
know any of these things.
If you see any of those things,I don't care how good he is.
(02:33):
I said, get up and walk away.
Because we can find somebodyelse that will be maybe as good
as him that won't do thosethings that we won't have to
deal with.
And I said, I've done it beforewhen I've had visits.
Somebody's mother would try andask me a question and the kid
(02:53):
would go, oh, mom, shut up.
And I'm just like, man, ifyou'll, it's like I start
thinking about my exit strategyas soon as that happens because
I'm like, if you'll say that toyour mother, you'll say that to
anybody, and it's and so it'sthe kids don't understand my
assistant.
My he's big, he's always talkedabout it.
(03:14):
Body language, mannerisms speakvolumes.
They say that what, 90%, 80 to90% of communication is
nonverbal communication.
I.
Yeah.
If I have to deal with somebodythat's rolling their eyes every
time I say something that when Isay, Hey, let's going, we're
gonna try this today.
And then two guys go, and it'sit erodes everything for
(03:36):
everyone.
And I said, look for bodylanguage Communication is huge.
Are they communicating not justwith their coach, with their
teammates, with the officials?
People in the stands.
I watched a kid this year whentheir team was finished, he
walked through the bleachers andwas picking up the trash, not
the trash that his team hadleft, the trash that everybody
(03:57):
had left and was throwing itaway as they left.
And I said, that's, you don'tsee people do that all the time.
that says something right thereabout a kid, so that's the first
thing we're looking at, and theother thing that I think, is how
do you handle E?
Everybody's great wheneverything's going man, I'm the
happiest, nicest guy in theworld.
(04:17):
When everything's going well,how are you when things aren't
going well?
Because newsflash, it's been myexperience over 37 years of
coaching that things go wrongmore than things go right in a
basketball game.
Yes.
you make all these plans, andthen two minutes in the game,
you're down 10 to nothing andit's, you've made four turnovers
and it's going south.
(04:37):
That's right.
how are you going to respond tothat?
Because, there are 38 moreminutes to go.
Are we gonna say, Let's regroup.
Let's get going.
Okay, we're down.
here we go.
or are we just gonna lose ourminds?
I think that is a huge thing,and I think it's a thing that
even as much as I hear peopletalk about it all the time, I
still think it is something thatparents and recruits need to
(05:01):
hear because that is such a hugeturnoff that body language.
Communication piece to it.
It doesn't matter if you candunk, it doesn't matter if you
can shoot the three.
It doesn't matter if you're agreat ball handling whiz.
This other piece to it is soimportant to the everyday aspect
(05:26):
of what you're doing.
I tell my guys all the time, thereason I do this, I love people
I'm in it for the kids, and I amin it for the kids, but why do I
do it?
Part of why I do it is this lastyear especially, but for the
last several years it's beenthis way.
I get up, I walk out the door, Igo in there, and that's two
(05:46):
hours that day that I get toenjoy some guys and us all
together doing what we do.
and so I'm looking for peoplethat can come into that realm
and be and keep that the way Ilike it to be.
Everybody always talks aboutculture, but it's like, how are
(06:06):
people going to fit in?
Because if you're not going tofit in, you're going to upset
every single thing.
That we're trying to do here.
And so we're looking for peoplethat we think will be great fits
for how we like to do things.
we're gonna play hard, we'regonna practice hard, we're gonna
compete.
You get some guys in a rebounddrill every now and then.
(06:27):
it gets a little spicy, and it'sand that's okay because in a
game it's gonna get spicysometimes.
Yeah.
At the end of the day,everybody's on the same team.
We're all pulling in the samedirection.
We're all working for the samegoal.
I'm looking for guys that willfit into that.
Yeah, more than maybe anythingelse that I'm looking for.
(06:48):
Obviously you're looking forskills, right?
I need shooter.
I'm gonna go look at a shooter.
I need a guy rebound.
I'm gonna go guy.
Look at guys that can rebound.
But beyond that's what I'mlooking for.
I wanna put some context to thisbecause I think what makes you
such a great leader is yourability to take the diversity of
(07:10):
what you've had on your roster.
Where maybe the average persondoesn't see how those parts.
Fit together.
I think of your 2005 team.
The difference in personalities.
You had some kids that were soshy and so soft spoken and Yeah.
And you had some, just some bigpersonalities.
Yeah.
And get me the ball.
There's two seconds left, butthe way they all fit together
(07:33):
and the way they cared abouteach other.
Yeah.
So the context part of this is Iwant parents to understand this
about you is, and about allcoaches.
When we're recruiting, we'realso thinking about the stages
of that young man or that youngwoman's development.
How long is it gonna take me toget them to where they can be a
(07:54):
contributor?
Then contributor, how do we getthem to be a major role player?
Does that kid have the abilityto be a kid that can carry us
for seven or eight minutes in agame?
Yes.
And those are all stages that wego through.
And if we're watching a kid inthe first two minutes, we're
going, I.
They're fighting theirteammates.
They're fighting their coach.
They're lazy.
(08:15):
They're not working hard.
I'm already seeing a lack ofeffort.
All of a sudden, that growththat we're envisioning in our
mind, we're seeing that growthhappen slower and slower as we
look out for years, right?
Yes, absolutely.
And go, why would I do that tomyself?
Yes.
We're not recruiting what wesee, we're not recruiting black
(08:36):
and white.
We're recruiting the potentialof what we're, of what that kid
is showing us in theircharacter, their attitude, their
effort, their energy, right?
And all of that unseen stuff.
I think people that are not inthe team sport realm, they just
go get the five best players.
(08:56):
That's right.
you look at the USA Olympicteam, the five most talented,
most decorated, most laudedplayers were not on the floor
together a lot of the time.
you look out there in the gamesthat were tough, leBron's out
there, or Kevin during whatever,and.
Not that Derrick White's not agreat player because he is, but
Derrick White or Drew Holidaysout there with him and I'm like,
(09:19):
Hey, wait a minute.
You know where's, wait a minute.
Where's, and it's because I hadto learn that a long time ago,
is your five most talentedplayers is rarely your best
combination.
my dad used to tell me when Iwas younger, he'd say, brother,
you got too many cooks in thekitchen.
and I used to laugh and say,there's a lot of truth to that.
(09:40):
There's one basketball, and soeverybody's, you've got to make,
it's got to work where everybodyworks together.
and so I've learned over timethat it takes a lot of different
pieces.
And sometimes you're playingthat guy and a parent or a fan.
Doesn't understand why you'replaying that guy.
When my son can beat him in agame of one-on-one, and I'm
(10:03):
like, that's great.
If we break out and have aone-on-one tournament here, I'll
put your son out there.
And it's but that's not whatwe're doing here, Yes.
and I've said that to our guys alot in our skilled, we talk at
the end of the year and I'vesaid.
If you're going, you need to go,you wanna be better next year,
go play basketball.
Find some games out there, findsome old guys playing, find some
(10:23):
college guys playing.
Go play basketball because youcan do the, you can put the
basketballs in the trash bagsand dribble and do all the stuff
on social media and all thatstuff.
You can get in a gym and shootfour hours on the gun a day,
which is not wrong, which is notterrible, If you wanna be good
at playing basketball, when theythrow the ball up, there's gonna
be five dudes out there on eachteam and you have to be able to
(10:46):
manipulate playing basketball.
And so all the skill work in theworld doesn't help you if you
don't play basketball.
And so I think sometimes that'sthe aspect that goes unnoticed
is how did those pieces.
Fit together.
That's right.
And sometimes I think,'causeyou're just in there every day
(11:07):
with them and you see how itstarts shaping up and how things
start, you know how it's going.
rarely are your five bestplayers your best combination.
I told this to a parent theother day.
they asked me a similarquestion.
I said, when's the last time youdrove down the road and you saw
an outdoor basketball hoop andyou saw a game being played?
You saw a pickup game, peoplejust there to play basketball.
(11:29):
I can't remember the last time Isaw a pickup game or just a kid
in the garage, on the drivewayshooting a basket.
That's how I grew up.
I know that's how you grew up,right?
Wherever there was a game, man,I was there blacktop, rough, no
rough rain.
It didn't matter.
A hundred degrees.
We played and that's how we gotbetter.
So it's great.
Absolutely great advice.
let's say perfect world.
(11:50):
You've done your recruitment forthe next year's class and you've
narrowed it down, you've foundall those kids that have that
character, the work ethic youlike.
Let's say it's all there.
You need a point guard.
What are one or two of thosethings about a point guard that
you're gonna offer that justgets you giggly, gets you happy,
(12:10):
makes you feel like that's a kidwe gotta have that makes my
program better.
I'm old school.
Okay.
I still watch, if you ask mewhat kind of basketball, I watch
YouTube.
My wife says YouTube has beenthe bane of my existence'cause I
can get on there and findanything, she comes in and
she'll go, really?
I'll be watching the 1974 NBAAll-Star game.
(12:32):
Those were the guys that Iidolized.
Kareem and Dave Cowans and jojoWhite.
And you know who?
George?
George Gervin.
George Gervin, yeah.
Dr.
Jay.
Like Dr.
Jay.
I watch that stuff.
I watch a 82 Lakers, 76 ERschampionship game, and I think
everybody should do that becausethey just think, oh, these guys
in the last 20 years that's theonly people that never saw Larry
(12:53):
Bird play have no concept of howhard that guy was I see podcasts
of guys sitting around talkingabout that.
Guys say, yeah, we all, wethought Larry couldn't play
either.
It's and it's but, so I watchthose kinds of things.
And so I grew up in a worldwhere the point guard was the
facilitator, the quarterback onthe floor, the coach on the
(13:14):
floor, all of that.
The game has changed and youhave to be able to score some,
but I'm, I still look for thatguy that can, and I've talked to
our guys about this a lot.
Hey, be able to get, when wegive up six points in a row.
Get us in and me or coach BradFish yells some set from the
(13:37):
sideline or some action.
Can you get us, do you knowwhich side of the floor to go to
get us the guy that needs to beshooting this next shot?
Because man, we just gave up sixor eight in a row and we need
our best player taking a goodshot this next trip.
Are you going to hey look, we'regonna run this play, but man,
the shooter is over there.
(13:57):
It's don't run this play.
And we get the worst shooter onthe team, open for a shot, run
it to the other side where weget the best shooter on the team
coming off the screen for thatshot.
That's right.
And so when I tell our talk toour point guards and our
practices, it's like you have tobe able to see that.
If you can't see that we're,it's gonna hold us back, we're
not gonna be as good.
As we could be.
Ryan Turk was one of the bestguards I ever had at that, and
(14:21):
he wasn't quick, he wasn'texplosive.
but I said, I always said youcould put cones and things out
there.
That dude might have to back youup and cross over and go back
and forth, and he might have totake 10 dribbles, but he'd get
to where he needed to go.
For you to run what you neededto run.
When we had him and DarrenHaggett, for example.
Yep.
He could get over to DarrenHaggett side of the floor, even
(14:44):
if you were trying to keep himfrom getting over to that side
of the floor.
And I said, you have to be ableto see the bigger picture and
see what we're trying to do.
Yep.
those kinds of things, I think,the whole setting and times, and
I've told, I had a, so mysophomore point guard this year,
I'd say, look Joe.
You're gonna be out there andyou're gonna be the youngest guy
on the floor.
(15:06):
I don't care about that.
If somebody's in the wrong spot,you got to tell'em they're in
the wrong spot.
That's, and get'em in the rightspot in two seconds.
And you can't be like, I reallydon't feel like that'cause he's
older than me.
No.
You've got to take that kind ofleadership.
That's right.
and so I look for those thingsprobably more in a point guard.
(15:26):
Than anything else.
Because if you're not doingthis, if you're not doing this,
you ain't the point guard.
Because if you're not directing,if you're afraid to lead older
guys, absolutely.
You are not the point guard.
Absolutely.
You are just a guard handlingthe ball.
I went to watch a high schoolgame this year and I wasn't even
watching this team.
I'm watching the other team, andthey had a freshman point guard.
A whole team full of juniors andseniors and man, he was running
(15:50):
that show and I was like, thatis impressive.
That kid is 14 or 15 years old.
Yep.
And he is the guy in charge andthey all know it.
And they're, they're not, he'snot the only one that thinks
that.
Yeah.
They understand that.
And I said, that's impressive,especially in high school, that
you can have that kind ofsituation because it's very
difficult for a young person tohave that kind of, I.
(16:13):
Be willing to take charge likethat.
And I would assume that FreshmanPoint Guard is on a list
somewhere in your office.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah.
See, and again, you didn't hearCoach Bunch talk about how many
points he scored, if the teamwon or lost, what?
How the game played itself out.
He was looking for a skillsetand an environment of control
(16:35):
and the ability to diagnose andmake the team better and think
big picture.
So love it.
All right.
Shooting guard, and.
I know the world has changedwith shooting guards.
I know we have seven footers forthe Knicks that are shooting
guards now.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
That are 260 pounds and shooting11 threes a game.
But I'm talking about that kidthat can run off of screens,
(16:57):
that can guard a two.
What are you looking for in thatshooter?
They have to have confidence andI've probably, I've had
assistance Tell me.
That I probably kill confidencesometimes because it's I, before
this past year, the threeprevious years, we were one of
(17:17):
the worst 25 3 point shootingteams in the country.
And I would put the guy in thatis a shooter.
And the first shot he took wouldhit the side of the backboard.
And I'm like, that does notinstill confidence in me when I,
hey, you don't have to make it,but man, I need you to do
something besides hit the sideof the backboard with the first
shot you take.
And it's and so they'll say,coach, it's hard.
(17:37):
I'm like, Hey look, I ain'tsaying I can yelling at him
'cause he missed, I'm yelling athim because he wasn't even in
the same zip code.
It's and so it's, it's a verydifficult skill and I've told
our guys that before.
I say, Hey, look guys, I was ashooter in college.
The only time I played incollege, I played with two guys
that were superior basketballplayers.
And when somebody played us azone when I was a sophomore,
he'd yell down the bench, Chris,get in there.
(17:59):
It was like.
I was supposed to go in thereand put up shots and make shots,
there's pressure in that.
I understand that, now I don'twant you to go in there.
The first touch you shoot a 27footer and you ain't even ran
down the floor yet, but after atrip or two, you know what
you're in there for.
Yeah.
there has to be a confidencelevel.
I missed two or three shots in arow and I still think I can make
(18:23):
the next one.
And sometimes that gets you introuble.
That got me in trouble.
I remember one guy laughed onetime in college.
I shot us clean out of a game.
We were down nine and he said,Chris, get in there.
And I went, oh, for five withtwo air balls.
And we were down 19 When I cameout, he was like you didn't have
it today.
but the next game I didn't go,oh gosh, I'm not gonna shoot
because I'm afraid I'm going tofail.
That's the difference.
you have to feel like.
(18:45):
He's got me in here because I'mgiving him a good chance to make
shots and help us win this game.
my job's to shoot the ball if Istop shooting the ball, why is
he keeping me on the floor?
Exactly.
And I've even talked to some ofmy kids in the program that are
good shooters.
I'm like, you wanna play moreand you better be better.
Branch out.
And be able to do some otherstuff.
(19:06):
if you are just a shooter when Iput you in the game, then if
you're not making shots, then Ihave to take you outta the game
because somebody else does theother stuff better.
So you better be able to do someother stuff along with that.
But confidence is such a thingand the confidence is built in
the gym on your own.
(19:27):
Josh Johnson, who played for meand was a senior in 2020, he was
conference player of the year.
Probably the best shooter I everhad.
And he scored 31 night onsomebody.
and I came in the next day andthe baseball coach is sitting in
my office and he goes, I stayedhere'cause I wanted to see you
come in.
And I said, why?
He goes,'cause I wanna show youthe Facebook post I just posted.
(19:49):
Now our baseball team is liketop topnotch.
They're like in the top 20 everyyear.
He sent it to his guys a pictureof Josh at six 30 that morning
with the gun set up, shooting onthe gun the next morning, the
night after he scored 30 or 32.
And he goes, boys, let me tellyou something.
This is what commitment lookslike right here.
And he goes, you wanna, he goes,you wanna know what, you don't
(20:11):
wanna know what commitment lookslike.
This is it right here, and hegoes, he, I sent that to my
whole team.
And it, you have to, if you'vedone the work.
You will have the confidencethat, yes, I'll make this shot.
Love it, but shooter's gottahave confidence.
Remind me when we're done.
I've got a 2027 to, now thatyou're saying all this, I've got
a 27 shooting guard I need youto look at.
(20:33):
Okay.
All right.
Yeah.
talk about confidence.
It's through the roof with thiskid.
All right.
let's talk about your wings.
What are you looking for?
For me, it was always theathlete.
I had got my shooter, I got mypoint guard.
I want a kid that can maybe do alittle bit of everything, but
it's gotta be an athlete.
Is that what you're looking forin a wing?
(20:53):
Are you looking for somethingelse?
Yes.
I think, it's been so hard inthis league.
To get good big people.
Yeah.
Carl, the guy I just mentionedthat was the leading shop
blocker in rebut in schoolhistory.
He was barely six four.
Yeah.
He was strong as a bull, but hewas in a good leaper and all
that.
But he wasn't tall, and he is wewere always the biggest team in
the league When you werecoaching.
(21:13):
I always had a bunch of bigguys, right?
Some point it turned on me and acoach one time said to me,
Chris, I really like how youswitched your philosophy.
And went from big to being thatquick and athletic.
And I said, Hey, I didn't makethat choice.
That choice got made for me.
I'd go back to being bigtomorrow if I could.
so I've always gotten a lot ofmileage in the last.
(21:36):
10, 15 years out of 6, 3, 6 4guys that could guard smaller
than them if they had to, thatcould guard bigger than them if
they had to.
And whether you're playing man,or whether we're playing two,
three zone, I say this to kidsall the time too.
If you want the best chance toplay, don't be a one trick pony.
(21:57):
Don't be a guy that can, oh, Ijust play the wing on the zone.
Because maybe in a game I mightneed somebody to play the top or
God forbid the base of the zone.
Can you do that I might leaveyou out there and put somebody
else in and just say, Hey, goplay the base two trips till we
can get to the two minute markor whatever.
(22:18):
And so I look for guys that areversatile defensively,
especially, can they rebound?
Are they, do they have someversatility to'em That makes
every, that makes you so muchmore well-rounded.
We play, four out, one in motionand I tell our guys all the
time, don't know the one, don'tknow the five, know what it is
(22:42):
that we're doing.
If we're running an action, ifwe're running a special set or
something, coach, I only knowthe spot from the four you
probably aren't gonna get toplay if I don't need a four, and
so it's hey coach, I can run thefive if you need me to.
It is like good run at thistime, and just those kids play
more those because in a game, Idon't always go, okay, let me
see now I wanna run this play,and who do I have in there?
(23:04):
I've got five seconds to, someguy gets his four foul, I've got
five seconds to grab somebodyand sling'em out there.
And then you go to run a set andgo, oh God, we need a format or
we need a two, or whatever.
Can you go, Hey coach.
No, I got it.
And just jump in that spot ifyou can.
You're gonna play more.
That's right.
and so especially with thewings, we're looking for that.
(23:26):
We're looking for versatility.
can you play smaller?
Can you play bigger?
Can you rebound, can you handlethe ball a little bit if you
have to, if somebody's pressingthis Greenville University, can
you make a shot?
Can you drive a little bit?
the more of that stuff thoseguys can do.
The better chance they have ofplaying, the better chance we
have of being good.
Yeah.
And don't think for a secondcoach is talking from just a D
(23:49):
three perspective.
This is everywhere.
If you're a wing and you'reversatile and you can rebound
and you can guard and you canshoot a little bit and you can
put the ball on the floor.
There's a place for youeverywhere.
Yep.
Alright, coach Bigs.
And I know that's a, that is areally tough thing to throw at
you.
'cause there's all sorts ofdifferent types of bigs,
especially now'cause there's alot of fours that are shooters
that, a lot of bigs don't playthe back to the basket anymore.
(24:12):
What are you looking for?
What gets you excited about afour or five?
I tell our, I tell any postplayer that we're recruiting
because even the ones that can'tshoot a lick.
Think they're a stretch four.
They'll tell you, coach, I'm athree.
You're a stretch four.
It's no, you're not, but okayI'll work with that for now.
But there are guys that canshoot it, it's like, and so I
(24:33):
tell every big guy I'mrecruiting, I don't care what
you do offensively.
And they look at me andsometimes their parents look at
me funny.
And I'll say, I need guys thatcan rebound.
I need guys that can defendother big guys.
I need guys that are mobile.
I need guys that will run thefloor.
Can you do all that?
If you're a 40% three pointshooter, we'll put you out there
(24:56):
somewhere in a position whereyou can shoot some threes if you
can't, and all you can do isshoot layups, you'll be, you
might be in the dunker spot onthe baseline or on in the post
but it's a, it's, I make all ourbig guys in practice do post
moves.
Sometimes I have wings, I'llhave my guards.
I've got a guard.
My, my returning all conferenceplayer is six, one or two, and
(25:19):
he's just been the second leanrebounder on our team for all
three years he's played.
And I've seen coaches, a coupleof coaches have left their,
Scouting reports or somebodyleft a scouting report laying
around in the locker room andthey call him the power Forward
and he's like our two guard, buthe gets more rebounds than
anybody and he's the bestoffensive rebounder on the team
and all of that stuff.
I sometimes send Jamar down withthe posts to work on post moves
(25:43):
because I'm like, you're gonnabe the guy getting the ball
around a basket.
You gotta be able to up andunder some guy and finish with
the left hand.
That's right.
More so than some of thesebigger guys.
And so we do a lot of that.
Sometimes we'll go through apractice and I'll have
everybody, I'll have the guardsdo all the post moves.
We're gonna shoot jump hooks,we're gonna shoot dribble hooks,
we're gonna shoot, drop stepsand I have everybody do that.
(26:05):
Because I think it is a lost arta little bit.
Agree.
I agree.
And I tell all of our big guys,I have to be able, when we go
play bigger teams and biggerteams non-conference, I have to
have guys that can rebound andget us out of possessions
defensively.
I have to have guys that canguard.
If somebody has a 6, 7, 6, 8, 6,9 guy inside that can score.
(26:27):
You have to be able to turn himaway from the way he wants to
turn.
And make him finish with someother move besides what he wants
to do.
And can you do that?
Don't worry about the offensivepart.
we'll figure it out.
If you shoot three, you canshoot threes.
If you can't, you'll dosomething else.
You'll set ball screens,whatever.
I don't care what you dooffensively.
I care what you do defensivelyin that regard.
(26:50):
Love it.
and if I always tell guys, canyou shoot it?
I'll figure it out in practice.
I'll see it every day.
If you can shoot 40 from three,I'll let you shoot some threes.
If you shoot 15 from three,newsflash, you ain't gonna be
shooting any threes.
So obviously the gun's out atsix 30 in the morning, so if you
want to get that percentage up.
Exactly.
there's a time and a place foryou.
Yeah.
Yep.
One piece of advice for familiesgoing through the recruiting
(27:14):
process.
They want to play for CoachBunch.
They wanna play at Webster.
They wanna play D three.
how do they get your attentioncoach?
How do they get you to look at'em?
Two pieces of advice.
And one of those is not anattention thing.
I think no matter who you are,talk to every coach.
'cause you never know how that'sgonna come back around to you.
(27:35):
You think you're a division twoplayer and you go to a division
two and they red shirt and youdon't play and you want, at some
point you go I want to justplay.
Maybe you gotta, maybe you endup circling back around to that
guy and if you told him, no,coach, I'm not a D three guy,
I'm not interested in you, thenyou know, you may be going back
to that guy at some point andsaying, Hey coach, can I come
(27:56):
play for you?
And so don't ever.
Don't ever dismiss anybody.
Some of the best conversationsI've ever had have been going to
an A U tournament.
And I don't know where kids aregoing and I'm just there seeing
is any kid that I can see.
Most of'em, it's not like adivision one coach that goes
there to see one guy and thenleaves.
I'm going there just to seeanybody that I can maybe see I
(28:17):
had a guy one time go, Hey CoachMunch, I really appreciate,
thanks, but I've already earlysigned with Indiana.
He's he wasn't the mostexplosive athletically, but he
was like six five.
He could shoot, he could handlethe ball.
He's he kinda looks like a Dthree guy.
let me call him and just seewhat he's got.
He's coach, I early sign withIndiana and I'm like, I felt
like an idiot, but he was asnice as he could be.
(28:38):
And he's coach, He asked me alittle bit where you guys at?
and talked a little bit.
I said, Hey, good luck to you.
And I was like, I told somebodythe next day, I said I wanted to
just, if I could have recordedthat call, I wouldn't have said
That's how you interact with acollege basketball coach that's
interested in you, whether youare or not.
That's right.
So don't so listen to everybody.
Consider everybody.
(28:59):
but then call everybody backthat calls you, call everybody
back.
Respond.
Respond immediately.
And I get it in this day and agekids, because everybody's been
raised on their phones,especially since COVID, it's
like everybody got to the COVIDsociety, the social media
society, and texting andemailing and whatever.
(29:19):
I say this all the time torecruits and they still don't do
it because I realize it'suncomfortable for them.
It's uncomfortable for me, as a58-year-old.
It's really uncomfortable for an18-year-old, but just tell me
you're not interested.
Thank you, coach, but I'mlooking for something else or
thank you, coach, but I actuallyam looking at these two schools.
(29:40):
I appreciate your interest.
In fact, I'm gonna think more ofyou if you do that Exactly than
if you just ghost me for, andcontact you for a month before I
just go, okay.
He's not interested, I just didit the other day.
I was, I hadn't heard from a kidin a month.
I was writing him off and hesent me a text, Hey coach, I was
like wait a minute.
He's back in flight.
Because just respond quickly.
(30:01):
That's right.
and either way, yes or no.
I think communication is keythere.
Just respond to coaches.
But if you're interested, Ithink you have to do the work.
I hear so many people say thismy high school coach didn't get
me a scholarship, or My highschool coach didn't help me get
recruited.
(30:22):
That may be true, that may notbe true.
Don't rely on your high schoolcoach to get you recruited.
Get out there, send videos,contact coaches, be proactive in
your recruiting.
Because you don't know thenumber of times that I've just
went, for example, I had a guyhere graduate two years ago, win
(30:44):
Brown Junior, we called him jr.
He was from Memphis, sent me anemail in June.
Coach, I'm just looking for aplace to play.
I'm a five nine point guard.
the only reason I looked at it's'cause being from Tennessee, I
knew the high school that heplayed for and they were really
good.
I clicked on the link and I waslike, yeah, that kid's skilled.
(31:05):
Now he's small, but he'sskilled.
He came here, played as a, that2020 team.
I won two years in a row.
We went 31 and five in theconference in 2019 and 2020.
When 2020 he was a freshman.
He ended up starting and beingthe fifth man on that team and
averaged.
10 a game in conference as afreshman.
(31:25):
The next 5 7, 5 7, 5 7 and like120 pounds.
Now, the next three years, hewas our best player.
He ended up being the fifth, alltime leading score in school
history.
Amazing.
The only reason I ever looked atthat dude is'cause he sent me an
email and I went, I know thatschool.
Let me look and see.
And there's times I don't.
'cause you just get inundatedwith them and no, every coach is
(31:48):
human.
Nobody's going to check'em allout.
But I looked at that one emailand got one of the best players
I ever had in 23 years here, andso it's, you be proactive and
send emails to places.
I had a guy one time I heard,and he did, he gave a good piece
of advice.
He said, send a couple ofstretch contacts.
(32:09):
if you think you're a divisiontwo player, maybe send a.
Something out to a couple ofdivision one schools that you
lower level division one schoolsthat you might be a stretch that
you could ever play there, butsend a couple of emails to the D
three schools that you might beinterested in because you might
not get what you think you'regoing to get and you might need
(32:29):
to go play there and then sendemails to the level that you
think you're at Don't, I thinkyou have to be proactive in your
recruiting.
and don't just rely on your highschool coach.
Don't rely on your service orwhatever.
Those are all good things andthose are all good avenues and
those can all be very helpful.
But don't rely on that.
(32:51):
You take the initiative, be theowner, be the CEO of owner
recruitment, be the boss.
And the other thing I might sayis be realistic.
Be realistic.
There, there are so many thingsout there where, guys contact me
or I contact a guy and he's nocoach.
I'm going, I want a D one or dor I have guys contact me and
(33:13):
it's a five eight point guardand he goes, coach I'm I I just
wanna go there to start with.
Talk with your high schoolcoach, talk with your a u
coaches, whoever, and get a feelfor where you could possibly end
up maybe you catch lightning ina bottle and you get to where
you think you want to get tobecause guys do that.
but take ownership in that.
Love it.
(33:34):
Coach, we may have to do anannual Crisp bunch episode
because I just I feel like wetalk and I'm like, oh my God, I
told I promised you an hour andwe're an hour 40 in.
It's like we can go another twohours.
It's alright.
Thank you.
From the bottom of my heart.
Please give my best toChristine.
We miss you guys a ton.
I appreciate it.
If anybody out there is lookingfor advice from recruiting,
(33:56):
coach Bunch wrote the chaptereight coach's perspective in my
book, significant Recruiting,and it's fantastic.
All these golden nuggets he'sthrown at you today, what he
wrote in the book is equallyfantastic and I'm so thankful
that you did that for me.
Brother, I love you.
I'm so thankful to have you inmy life, so thankful that these
boys have you in their life,and, whatever you need, you got
(34:18):
me.
Thank you for doing this.
I appreciate you, man.
I love you too.
I enjoy this.
it's fun just to get and talkabout basketball.
I don't get enough opportunityto do this, so I appreciate it.
It's just gold.
Good luck this season.
hope you get some rest thissummer and, we'll look forward
to next conversation.
All right, thank you, Matt.
What a great conversation withCoach Chris Bunch.
His honesty, experience, andperspective are a gift to any
(34:40):
family going through therecruiting journey, and a
reminder that characterconsistency and communication
still matter to great collegecoaches.
If you found this episodehelpful, take a moment to
subscribe, leave a review.
And share it with another familyor coach who's walking this same
road.
And remember, if you need helpwith your recruiting journey,
(35:00):
I've got resources built justfor you@coachmattrogers.com.
You can pick up a copy of mybook, significant Recruiting,
grab the softball Recruitsjournal, Or check out the
Significant Launchpad coursedesigned to help families take
control of the process.
You can also schedule a freerecruiting or coaching strategy
session with me right on thesite.
(35:20):
I'd love to connect with you.
Thanks again for listening, andas always, don't just chase
success, live, lead, and recruitwith significance.
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