October 14, 2025 • 52 mins
From Sketch to Runway: Jamie Koff of Fabric to Finish on Fashion ProductionIn this episode, Dian Griesel interviews Jamie Koff, founder and president of Fabric to Finish, a company dedicated to helping designers bring their fashion dreams from inception to completion. Jamie details her journey from her early days as a production coordinator at J. Crew to her roles at Tommy Hilfiger and DKNY, and her eventual transition to starting her own business. She shares insights into the intricacies of fabric sourcing, production processes, and the importance of a time and action calendar in the fashion industry. Whether you're a budding designer or just curious about what it takes to launch a fashion line, Jamie offers a wealth of knowledge garnered from years of experience in the fashion world. Stay tuned for an in-depth look at the world behind the scenes of fashion production.
Please SUBSCRIBE! I’m Dian Griesel, Ph.D. aka @SilverDisobedience to my hundreds of thousands of monthly blog readers. You can learn more about me here: https://diangriesel.com
But for starters…I am a perception analyst, counselor, hypnotherapist, author of 16 books and a Wilhelmina model. For 30 years I have helped my clients to achieve greater understanding as to how perceptions impact everything we do whether personally or professionally.
This episode was recorded in collaboration with The Manhattan Center, New York City, New York. https://www.themanhattancenter.com/
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Show Run: 00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction01:11 Jamie's Early Career at J.Crew08:18 Transition to Tommy Hilfiger09:40 Role at Tommy Hilfiger19:01 Moving to DKNY and Denim Expertise24:44 Experience at Cynthia Steffi26:30 Consulting and Entrepreneurial Journey27:46 Startup Energy and Learning from Industry Leaders28:31 Children's Wear License and Unexpected Shutdown29:31 The Birth of Fabric to Finish29:55 Challenges and Realizations in the Fashion Industry32:00 Supporting Independent and Emerging Designers34:15 Building a Multifaceted Consulting Agency37:13 Navigating the Complexities of Fashion Production43:03 The Importance of Brand Identity and Market Readiness48:30 Launching Micro Collections and Financial Considerations52:02 Conclusion and Contact Information
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hello everybody. I have a really great guest
today. Her name's Jamie Cough.
She is the founder and presidentof a company named Fabric to
Finish. And what she literally does is
helps designers take their dreamfrom that sketch on the paper.
(00:21):
Sometimes it doesn't even start with a sketch.
It starts with an idea in their head.
And she takes that design from inception straight through to
choosing the fabrics, materials,hardware, manufacturers and
getting it to the finish where it can go down a runway or be on
(00:42):
a website or be hanging in a store or someplace else.
And she's got a great history that bought her to this level of
expertise. So we're going to start there
and then we're going to talk about how she works today for
many designers and want to be designers and existing
designers. So it's going to be a lot of
(01:03):
fun. Stay tuned.
Welcome, Jamie. Cough.
Hi. Fabric to finish.
So I know at some point you had an idea that this was a good
idea for a business, but it started with a lot of
experience. Prior you worked for some really
(01:25):
big names to get your experienceas AI.
Believe it was a production linemanager, production coordinator,
production coordinator. So let's talk about what's a
production coordinator and who you worked for to start to
develop your core skill sets. Well, I'd be happy to share.
(01:46):
Well first and foremost, production coordinator has many
different definitions, but it's a very, and my experience, a
very entry level position. Mine in particular was at j.crew
back in the early 90s when it was still family owned, well
before Mickey Drexler came in and sprinkled his magic fairy
dust. But at that time I was strictly
(02:09):
an assistant to two production managers where I learned a lot
of the underbelly of the business.
It was very administrative dealing with overseas offices.
Back in the day, j.crew had a Singapore office.
We had buying offices in severalother countries and so it was
very much facilitating a lot of the day-to-day purchase order
issuing and delivery tracking. And my claim to fame is being in
(02:33):
charge of the morning fax machine, which was a full time
job at the time because this waspre Internet and it was just
when you had a direct electronice-mail line to your overseas
offices just for e-mail letters,not attachments.
So everything was very much fax based.
(02:55):
So you can imagine the influx offaxes that came in in the
morning from an overnight. And the pages flying all over
and trying to put the pages backtogether.
And not paper, not being in the machine.
And you know, as I always say tomy my staff and my students that
I mentor. Why?
What is the CC? And the BCC meaning came from an
old fashioned fax machine, whichis a prehistoric dinosaur in
(03:18):
their book. So, so it was very
administrative. It was foundational.
And you know, I got in at 7730 in the morning and I left at ten
11:00 at night. And if that's any indication of
how much I put into that, that that's simple.
Production line coordinator. Was this something that was your
first job, your first entree into the world of fashion and
(03:42):
design? Actually, j.crew was my first
job. You know, a little back story.
I was not permitted to go to fashion school.
My parents were both professionals and said you will
never be able to support yourself in the fashion
industry. So we would like for you to have
a proper liberal arts education.And in hindsight, I absolutely
(04:03):
am grateful that they imposed that ban on me because it really
well-rounded my myself as an individual and as you know,
somebody who was growing and maturing into their own
existence through college and understanding you know how to
be. But really, I found my passion
(04:24):
and started interviewing for sending faxes and cover letters
back to the fax machine out to hundreds.
Of those huge New York Times pages.
Well, frankly, I didn't know anybody in the fashion industry
and I didn't know how good of a networker I was.
But I think back, I networked with, you know, a second
(04:46):
cousin's second cousin on the other side because they just
knew somebody that was in fashion.
So, OK, you meet and this individual referred me to a
publication called Woman's Wear Daily, and I didn't know about
it as a senior at GW. And I looked it up.
I found that they sold it at a newsstand in Dupont Circle.
(05:08):
So I took the Metro and I went to Dupont Circle.
But I was sure to go on a Wednesday because I was told on
Wednesday they had the classified section, right?
I mean, this is I'm dating myself.
I remember. And so I went and bought my
copy, got back on the Metro and started, you know, sending
random cover letters to these random fax numbers that in some
cases had no information. They didn't say, you know, Ralph
(05:31):
Lauren is hiring. In some cases they had the big
ad with the logo and you wanted to apply to a recognizable
brand. But you know, there were brands
in there that I didn't know about, but I was just for
practice purposes, sending coverletters and faxes.
And and, you know, as as the story goes, I was interning at a
law firm my senior year. They offered me a full time job
(05:54):
to stay as an associate, which was never my goal in life.
And I set up interviews in New York at, you know, the Macy's
buying program, the Bloomingdale's buying program,
thinking how do I get into the industry history, not having a
technical background, not being a designer or a merchant or a
sales expert, but how to get in,somehow get my foot in.
(06:17):
And so I set up interviews to come up from DC, take the 5:00
in the morning train because I didn't know anybody spent the
whole day interviewing and nothing came out of that first
day. I set up a second round and as
the story goes, when I went backto my apartment from the lost
the the law firm job because I left my luggage, my overnight
(06:39):
bag in my apartment, I wound up networking and found a friend of
a friend of a friend who knew somebody so that I didn't have
to take that God awful 5:00 in the morning train.
So when I came back to my apartment, I saw the light
blinking on my answering machine.
And you know, back in the day, you couldn't, you know, I
couldn't even call in to retrieve my messages.
And I pressed play and it turnedout to be somebody from j.crew
(07:03):
saying that they got my resume and they hope it wasn't too late
and that I'm that they missed mebecause they saw on my cover
letter I'll be up on Friday, such and such.
Whatever it was, it was MemorialDay weekend.
It was that Friday. I remember it.
And so I immediately called and said, I'm absolutely able to see
you tomorrow. At the end of the day, I squeeze
(07:23):
them in and they were my last appointment and I wound up
getting the job offer and so in the men's knits durables
department. So I packed up my apartment in
DC in two weeks, found an apartment in New York, moved up
and started working at j.crew. And never how.
Long were you at j.crew, for youwere recruiting to another big
(07:47):
name well. I, I was there for a year and
you know, full admission, I wasn't recruited.
I was terminated. And you know, as the story goes,
so were my predecessors and the people that were that came well
after me. There were, you know, it was
tough to keep people in that role.
(08:08):
And, you know, times were fast flowing and, you know,
inexperienced managers and it's all good.
I learned a tremendous amount from that experience.
But I networked my way into the Tommy Hilfiger human resources
department, which then kind of parlayed me into my next job
opportunity, which was a fabric assistant at Tommy Hilfiger
(08:29):
Menswear. Fabric assistant.
What's a fabric assistant? Well, that's a good question
because they they kind of created the opportunity for me.
Basically it's it's product development and production
function, but strictly focusing on fabric.
So the fabric or are you? Designing the No, no, it's the
(08:50):
fabric or sourcing it. Sourcing.
And and managing the process of its inception through to
completion. So the design team were very
much involved in all of the adoption, pitching all the ideas
to Tommy, putting their rig boards together, you know, their
creative presentations, you know, whatever the theme was of
that season, you know, prep techor you know, whatever military,
(09:15):
Americana, whatever those those themes were.
Then they would select their fabrics based on the
opportunities within whatever price points and fabric minimums
and sourcing requirements that the production team dictated.
So we worked very hand in hand with the production team.
In fact, we were under the the head of production who oversee
(09:36):
the efforts and who oversaw the efforts, excuse me, But
primarily what I find really unique about that experience is
that it was its own massive function within a corporate
structure. And from what I understand
throughout my journey, fabric was a big deal, but it was never
an entire entity. You know, I think a lot of
(09:58):
companies not undervalued or undermine the importance of
fabric as a function, but we in the Tommy world, we're very much
very linear as it related to that function.
For example, in some cases, factories would want to price
out a Chino pan or a dress shirtor a zip up jacket or
(10:19):
performance puffer and just say,here's our package, use our
fabric. In the world of vertically, you
know, integrated functionality, it was really important for
Tommy's team and the whole methodology of the company to
have full transparency and to have supply chain access.
So my entire background and history was building a building
(10:41):
and maintaining and creating these relationships with all of
these vendors as a function, youknow, visiting the fabric mills
in Taiwan to hand off the YondaiPlaid programs, you know, so
once the line was designed and tech packs were issued, I had,
you know, 202225 plaids that we would then decide how to
allocate where, which mills got those plaids and what was the
(11:03):
poplin construction and what wasthe price point from last season
and how to keep feeding and nurturing these relationships
while they were manufacturing a product that was, you know, a
significant amount of quantity. So what does a fabric assistant
do was working day-to-day with all of the offices with our
counterparts and a lot of those offices were the on the ground
(11:25):
team. So be it our sole office, our
Taipei office, our Hong Kong office or India or you know,
Israel, Turkey office, we were the the, the intermediaries of
the process and the overseas teams were the ones that
everyday color approvals, lab dip approvals, lab dip
resubmissions. Because every part of fashion is
(11:47):
a time in action calendar, right?
So in order to get it to runway or to get it to Bloomies or
Macy's or Nordstrom's, it has tostart somewhere.
And so everybody has a calendar that they have to follow.
So colors have to be approved bya certain date, fabrics have to
be adopted by a certain date. Fabric testing reports have to
be submitted first proto meetings has to happen.
(12:07):
By such and such time, I mean I think back, you know a lot of
the functionality between my first overseas trips was to
prepare the rest of the team forwhat they had to do on the trip.
For example, if someone you know, if there was 32 fabrics
for the season, I'm exaggerating.
I don't I lost count how much wedeveloped, but it was my job to
(12:30):
OK, we had allocated the chambray vendor, the Yondai
popland, the 8 whale or 14 well,corduroy, you know, the two ply
canvas, whatever it was. I had to get fabric ready in
piles lined up around the conference room to hand over to
the production team who would come the week after me so that
(12:53):
they could hand over a tech packand the fabrics and the trims to
the garment factory and say here, make me a first proto.
So that time, so that time think.
Of all those stages, so that time.
Could be saved, right? So most companies just show up
and say, hi, here's my program. We would show up and prepare.
And so I would run, you know, ifthe mill didn't have the right
(13:14):
construction. What was more important for the
proto meeting was really the visuals of it.
So if it was a neon green check,right?
So what's the closest thing? So I would go to the local
market in Shamshui PO in Hong Kong and those hot, sweaty,
dirty, nasty days in Hong Kong. Dusty.
And, you know, the smell. I mean, I can smell it now for
(13:37):
those listening, you know what I'm talking about if you've been
there. But I would literally pick out,
you know, 5 to 10 yards. Oh, that's good.
Tommy Will see that, he'll understand it.
And even if it was not in the right construction, he got a
visual of the first protos that were coming through for
everybody to sign off on costing, design and development.
(13:57):
And by the time the proto meeting took place, using those
substitute fabrics and prints, we at least had strike offs and
hand looms to show him. So because hand looms only come
in a little, you know, a, a, a, a Swatch card size and you get
to see a triangle of a Plaid. So at least pretty difficult.
And yarn skeins, because mills don't have things in stock that
(14:20):
are exactly what you're looking for when you are customizing.
So yeah, the cycle is, it was a pretty big cycle.
And for, you know, an assistant in the fabric department, it was
pretty comprehensive. And what was?
The next thing you learned afterfabric department?
Well. Interestingly enough, at the
(14:40):
fabric team at Tommy, I was promoted and selected for a
pretty significant opportunity in anybody's career and it was
to be part of the startup team to launch his women's line and
his jeans line for men's and women's.
So that was pretty exceptional and you know, forever grateful
(15:04):
for that opportunity. It was a super big milestone and
from that point it became more management related.
So it was very process oriented.It was very time in action
calendar oriented. You've you've.
Used that phrase a couple of a few times.
Time in action. What does that mean in the
(15:25):
fashion business? It means your production
development calendar. You know the abbreviation is T
ampersand A. Not to be confused with another
TNA, but we always say a TNA is really this is where the season
starts and this is where the production X factory starts,
meaning when the goods leave thefinishing destiny.
(15:46):
You know, point of origin and they get picked up by the
freight team and then we're on to the next.
To the next. Season time and action calendar.
It's about delivery, so backpedaling in and so being
under the gun for timing and approvals.
Because nothing ever goes right.As anybody who works in fashion
knows, sometimes you have deadlines and trigger dates for
(16:09):
approvals. But the mill or the factory or
the denim wash house misbehaved and didn't follow your
instructions. And so as a result, you need
another submission. But that submission conflicts
with your trigger dates and commitment dates on your time
and action calendar. So it's a big whirlwind of OK
vendor figure this out or you'regoing to have a late delivery
(16:32):
which you're going to be responsible for airing XYZ.
So time and action calendar is ahard thing to sum up and you
know. That's a good, that's a good
insight, yeah. But to to answer your question
about what what after fabric, itreally became this holistic
process of of really, you know, project management, fabric and
(16:53):
and product development management, because I segwayed
into denim and washing and whichis a whole other function,
right? So anybody that goes to a store
and buys a blouse, 9 out of 10 times it's goods that's just cut
from the role of fabric. If you're walking into polar, if
you're walking into rag and bone, if you're walking into you
know, you know, any, any jeans line or the gap or you see that
(17:17):
there's a wash. So that is a process.
It involves development. It involves wash trials, laundry
trials. So that kind of segwayed my role
so. That's what it means when you
see the word wash, yes? Wet processing.
So a denim, Every fabric comes off of the loom in its rigid,
raw form. And most of the time when it
(17:40):
comes to sportswear or a finished product, it requires a
wet process, meaning it has to go through a wash cycle to
soften it. So maybe there's a French Terry
sweatshirt that you buy, you know, at Target and it feels
yummy that probably had a rinse wash with a little bit of
softener in it. But nothing comes off of the
loom perfectly, you know, finished.
(18:03):
So that's why there's a whole other process that involves
product development because thatinvolves shrinkage and shrinkage
patterns. So, you know, a lot of designers
now are putting dry clean only on their labels because they
know that the fabric has a very high shrinkage rate and they're
working with a factory that doesn't have laundry facilities.
(18:25):
So they have a disclaimer. They basically say dry clean
only to protect themselves. But the process involved in that
is a is a high level, you know, production, development,
technical design process wherebyevery style will have a, an
after wash measurements move, unlike silks or something that's
(18:48):
really a dry clean only product.So did that answer your question
about yes it? Did OK, so now what are you
doing in your new? What were you doing in your next
role? Well.
Broadening your experience my. Next role really, really moved
into denim and wet processing, to be honest with you.
So after my Tommy Jeans world, I, I actually was recruited over
(19:09):
to DKNY jeans and active to fulfil that same kind of role,
but more in a, in a, you know, in a manager director level.
And so that was very hands on with again, wash development,
getting submits from the factoryon the fabrics that we chose
because it's a 2A2 pronged function.
In some cases it's 3 pronged because you need to not just
(19:31):
see, you have to see wash panels, right?
Double needle stitching or triple needle stitching or cross
stitching or something to show how did the effect of the wash
breakdown the fabric? Is there a high color loss?
Can you see contrast? Can you see a cross hatch in the
construction? Is it a very slubby yarn?
(19:51):
Because once you start to wash, color goes away, right?
Indigo is not color fast, it's avegetable dye.
So there's all of these iterations of finding the right
fabric that would give the righteffect, and not every fabric
washes and performs the same way.
What I tried to do when I was inthat role was to bring forth
(20:11):
the, the practice of of my Tommylife, which was to build product
efficiency to, to build the collection where you got more
bang for your buck. Which is why his business was so
successful, right? The jeans that started off maybe
there were two or three denim base cloth, that's it.
(20:31):
You know, a basic Jean, a wide, whatever the original jeans
were, there was a Carpenter. I mean, it was kind of before
this whole jeans craze. It was before 7 jeans and all of
that. And I, I brought the fact that
when I went to DK, they were doing this denim with this male.
And I'm going to work with Japanwith that.
I'm going to work with Italy forthat and Spain because I love
(20:54):
this and I want to be all over the place.
And but there was something about being all over the place
that you couldn't maintain brandconsistency.
And So what I tried to infuse into that system was this kind
of maintained, not controlled because that's a bad word.
But this very streamlined where possible approach when you
(21:17):
fabricate a collection so that a, you could be more meaningful
to a fabric mill and have a 5 to10 to 25,000 yard order and get
3 washes out of that versus having to do it with this mill
and that mill and that mill. And to create your siblings that
way instead of giving birth fromone base cloth where you could
(21:38):
have some twins, fraternal and identical.
So it all goes down to the performance of each fabric and
really identifying how can I maximize utilization.
Can this be used in other styles?
Why do I need to run two different corduroys?
Can I run 1? You know, in in in the terms of
(21:58):
shirting, same thing. It's so.
Fascinating when you talk about it because I've heard the word
wash, you know, for as long as Ican remember.
But I never thought of when theysay, you know, triple wash denim
or this denim or. But I do remember my horror when
I got this pair of jeans that I just loved and they had that
really stiff effect and I wantedthem to stay that way.
(22:20):
I thought they were really cool.And the first time they came out
of the wash. I'm like postage.
Stamp. Shrunk, they turn like this
blurry blue. They no longer had the
difference between the really dark blue and the and the white
that you could see was made of black or blue and white stitches
to make that really stiff fabric.
(22:41):
It was all gone. It was all a blur of blue.
Well. Did you follow the care
instructions? Probably.
Not because I'm sure they said dry clean and I'm like dry clean
my jeans. Not a chance now.
I know, but lay flat to dry as well.
Oh. Interesting to maintain.
Color, yeah. Saturation and all that stuff,
(23:01):
yeah. Yeah, it's, it's very
fascinating because I also just had a oil pair of jeans, a black
oil jeans. Oh my gosh, big mistake.
Put them in the washing machine.Put the dryer.
You're. Recognizable coated.
Yeah, they don't. Even look like the same pants,
Yeah. I think the lesson in in this
(23:22):
story is that you need to read your care labels a little bit
better. And that's honestly, that was
also part of the process becausepeople, you know, people are
stupid. I'm sorry I said it, but you
know, there's liability when youdon't say certain things to warn
against certain things. You know, they, and I always say
(23:44):
this to my clients now, you know, you really have to assume
that the customer is dumb AF andthat they are going to want to
pull a fast one on you because, you know, if you're an ecom
business and they want to wear things and return it and say,
you know, so we do things to offset and to mitigate those
potential, you know, mishaps. So, and it all comes down to
(24:07):
protecting the brand and making sure in clear writing, you know,
do not put these in the dryer orelse.
And now, you know, even with theadmin of denim, as you probably
remember in, in in the 90s wherethey had those special hang
tags, you know, warning, do not sit on light surface, right?
(24:27):
Because so many people would getinto this dark denim, rigid
denim salvage denim phase. And you left your you left your
blue stain on. It on your.
White House West, right? And so it's and again, people
sue for that stuff. They are, you know, they're
hungry for litigation, so. So you were at Donna Karan and
then what? Then what's happening after they
(24:48):
so after? That during there, after that I
went to work for a small designer called Cynthia Steffi
and that was an interesting experience.
It was on 7th Ave. The elevator of our building at
5:50 had all the famous names, you know, Michael Kors, Jill
(25:09):
Stewart, Isaac Mizrahi, you know, you ride the elevator and
you just are like, wow, what an amazing, you know, you know, you
know, to be in this company, what an experience every
morning. And it was a small company.
It had a sample room in the back.
It was very small, very small family run.
(25:29):
I think they were very enamouredwith my big company background
and my fabric assets. And so it was really a learning
curve for me and how to adapt toa small company environment and,
you know, again, shift. Very.
There's a lot of people go from the small company to the big
company. We went from the very big, very.
(25:51):
Much. Wow.
Yeah, I mean, I went from havinga stocked refrigerator at the
office with cranberry juice and Pepsi and Coke to having my
paycheck bouncing, right? So, you know, but what I learned
was immeasurable. And you know, I don't regret any
of that because it really was mytime to see where I could be a
(26:17):
big fish in a small sea rather than a small fish in a big sea
in in my professional life, to see what that felt like.
And from there, gosh, I'm tryingto remember where I went from
there. I, I did some consulting work.
There were some celebrities thatwere looking to start their
clothing lines that, you know, I, I'm, I'm not able to share
(26:40):
here, but let's just say I had some fun experiences with some
Grammy award-winning, you know, singer.
And from there, I wound up beingrecruited back to my former
colleagues that started this NewYork office license of a French
parent company to launch all of these designer children's wear
(27:01):
brands. So it was my my Polo Jean.
I left off Polo jeans. I was head of fabric and wash
development for the for men's and women's.
So a bunch of my Polo former colleagues and a bunch of my
Tommy former colleagues joined forces and it was all very
incestuous. We all worked in the same
places. And then they said, come back,
let's launch this New York office of this big French
(27:23):
company. And it was very much like
setting up. It was setting up a new
business. I was always intrigued by that.
I always say one of the reasons why I started my own company was
because of my entrepreneurial spirits and juices that were
very much activated from that Tommy experience where I was
selected to be part of that startup.
(27:45):
And, and it really was, as I say, starting up a company at
the time within AI think it was a 300, three, $150 million
company at the time was a prettyinteresting opportunity to learn
how to start a business, right. It's not every day that you get
to sit at the table with some ofthe best leadership in the
industry and to learn from them and to make mistakes and do it
(28:08):
better and get it to market and scratch it and get on an
airplane Saturday night of Thanksgiving weekend.
Because Tommy wasn't happy with the first round of protos and we
had to go put in a second round within 48 hours and bring them
back to him. I mean, that doesn't happen in
everyday, normal fashion Americaas far as I'm concerned, but
that startup energy is really what invigorated me.
(28:31):
And I took that to this children's wear license.
It was called CWF Children Worldwide Fashion, and it was a
huge, huge French company that owned all of the designer
children's wear licenses for like Timberland, DKNY Kids,
Nike, Evisu, Burberry, you name it.
And they opened up this New Yorkoffice to bridge the opportunity
(28:52):
into the US to take on more licenses.
And so we didn't, you know, I was there for about two years
and the Frenchies, as we called them, they flew in one day and
kind of shut the operation down unannounced.
And that was, that was July of 2006.
I had just gotten back from two weeks overseas, brought back
(29:14):
suitcases of salesman samples and wash trials for all of the
DKNY kids, denim and juniors andthey shut the company down and
Oh my. Gosh, that.
Was when I said OK? Time to start something Time.
To of my own time to do it. Yeah, yeah.
So now we're up to Fabric to Finish.
(29:36):
Explain to everyone listening what is Fabric to finish, What
does it mean to you and what do you offer?
Wow, What does it mean? To me, it means a lot of
wrinkles and sleepless nights. So that's a very honest, direct
answer. You know, listen, embarking on
(29:59):
that journey was a whimsical thing that I did because one of
my, you know, best friends and mentors in life, you know,
basically when I was, you know, going over to the fabric shows
in the fall of 2006, she said just casually, oh, so you're
starting your own business, right?
And I said, OK, OK, I guess I am.
(30:20):
So there wasn't a grand plan. The grand plan for me was the
the aha moment when I realized when large corporate America was
not responsive to my outreach after I left the children's wear
world. And I said, wow, you know,
(30:41):
that's interesting. I have all the skill set I just
came out of starting. You know, I know how to start
from scratch. Our sourcing abilities are
incredible. I know I could lend an
opportunity to denim and washingto some companies that it's not
their core competency, right? So it's like a Talbots or, you
know, Chico's or something whereyou know, they're not known for
(31:01):
their denim there. They have expertise in other, in
other areas of the market. And I said, you know what, I'm
going to bring a solution because back in the day there
were no fractional anything fractional is a buzzword now,
right? Back in the day, we had
outsourced graphic designers forT-shirt programs, right, because
it was a seasonal business and he didn't have a graphic
(31:22):
designer on staff at any of you know, the pole of the Tommy, the
DK Sean John that we had a an art director because most of his
business was graphic. But to continue the thought,
what I realized when they weren't interested in, in my
proposition of let me support you and help in this part of
(31:44):
your business, IE denim and washing, I said, OK, they don't
need me, right? And I, I really, you know, I'm
emotional. I need to feel needed.
And I realized that there's a whole market that nobody was
tapping into and it was the independent and emerging
designer market. And that's when I realized
(32:05):
that's where I needed to shift because my, my first client
out-of-the-box was it was Diane von Furstenberg, but not her
brand. It was her creative director at
the time, Nathan Genden, and talented, brilliant, brilliant
designer that she was supportinghis own namesake ready to wear
(32:25):
collection and they needed somebody to manage it and they
couldn't infiltrate the internalDVF system because they had all
their parts in place. It was a very successful
operation and I, I wound up signing Nathan as my first
client. And so again, independent and
emerging, He's well named in theindustry, worked as creative
(32:48):
director for one of the biggest recognizable global brands, but
didn't have infrastructure to help pull it together.
And so that was where it all started.
And, you know, setting up the design studio, making sure that
everything was contained within the boundaries of what finances
(33:09):
I was told to maintain based on the accounting department.
Because, you know, creatives don't look at price tags.
They don't look at price per yard or price per meter.
And if fabric out of Italy for atailored suiting collection is
47 to 57 euros a meter, you can do the math on how much that
(33:29):
might cost per piece based on anconsumption or yielding
exercise. But I literally was able to kind
of build out his business model and oversee the operations, get
him to London Fashion Week, arrange everything, all the
sales appointments, you know, atthe Creon Hotel in Paris and
Netaporte and all of that stuff.It was very all-encompassing.
(33:52):
It was extremely rewarding and exhausting and overwhelming, but
it was absolutely what I signed up for as it related to
targeting those independent and emerging brands.
And so while it started off as an exclusive relationship, once
the market crashed and the that whole housing boom thing
(34:14):
happened, you know, Diane pulledthe plug.
They kind of turned off the faucet, closed the collection
and I wound up building the multi faceted, multi brand
consulting agency that I originally had envisioned.
So brands that were looking for stability, a full turnkey
(34:35):
solution, back office, people that had ideas but weren't
technically educated. They didn't have a design
background, they didn't know howto spec a garment.
They didn't understand fabric construction or drape or wash if
it were going to be a processed program.
And so they they leaned into fabric to finish as their source
(34:56):
of opportunity for the full service under one roof.
And that's what we became, and that's what we still are now.
When? You say full service under one
roof, so you explain how the process works.
Somebody finds you somehow. How do most people find you?
Word of mouth. We dropped leaflets from
airplane. I'm just kidding, Google.
(35:17):
Actually, we were on the maker'sroad platform for a considerable
amount of time, but now it's primarily word of mouth and the
Google, you know, whenever I meet a potential perspective,
you know, when we have our firstinitial phone call, I'm like,
how did we meet? Was it they said Google?
I said I love that matchmaker. She's good, you know, So and
(35:38):
what? What are the What are the
phrases they're searching to find you fashion?
Consultant, fabric sourcing, production management,
production manager, you know, fashion one stop shop, those
kind of things. And so I think generally
speaking, what what we have found is, and I talk a lot about
(36:00):
this on our weekly, you know, vlog series that we, we put to
our socials. I talk about the fact that, you
know, fashion is not IKEA. And I'm very much simplifying it
by saying that because I think the outside world, as you know,
if I revert back to the beginning of our conversation
where I was forbidden to go to fashion school, I was forbidden
(36:22):
because, you know, I think that,you know, the lack of
understanding about the industryand the, you know, this concept
that it's just a dumb, dumb thing and you know, you're not
going to make anything out of yourself.
But frankly speaking, I think the outside world in the
entrepreneurial space think similarly.
Oh, I can do this myself. I don't have to pay anybody to
(36:47):
help design my collection. And this is well before AI and
3D design programming. And So what we realized was that
most a lot of people that came through our doors to meet us and
to interview us for opportunities to work together,
(37:07):
we're under an interesting impression that there wasn't
really much involved. You know, I, I, I could believe
that wholeheartedly because I think most people would not do
pretty much anything they do in life if they actually understood
how much work is underneath thatservice that they have no idea.
(37:30):
You know, people go into businesses and they, you know,
where they start a job and they think, you know, oh, I want, I
want to be president Jamie. That's what my goal is with this
interview. I want to, I want your job, you
know, but they don't understand the 20-30 years you put into all
(37:50):
the. Steps involved.
Again, I think people simplify it because in this world of
TikTok and Instagram, everythingis a 2 minute video and it's
like poof, you know, you can stand up, change your outfit,
hit the button and show, you know, your morning outfit and
your nighttime outfit. But you know, she had to get her
hair and makeup done. She had to have a fitting for
those pants. Like, you know, she had to put
(38:11):
her baby down for the nap. Like there's so much more to, I
mean. Just just the idea.
If somebody said, well, I want to be at T-shirt manufacturer,
you know, well, whose label's going to be on that?
You know, are you going to put sizing stickers on it?
What's the packaging that's going to go on it?
What's the what's the fabric going to be?
Is it going to be shrink wrappedwhen you're done?
(38:33):
I mean, it's unbelievable the level, exactly.
Because factories are, you know,as I say, I, I jokingly call
them real estate agents because they're really just looking to
sell their under the needle, right?
So they're they have a business under.
The meaning. They have sewers, they have
employees, and they have to keepfilling the sewing line.
(38:54):
Period. End of story.
So what? They're there to grow their
relationship, but really what they need to do is keep feeding
their workers. So they're not there to mince
words. They're not there to do all The
Dirty work, right. I think a lot of these newcomers
think that, oh, you know, if once I, you know, my uncle's dog
(39:16):
walkers, nephew's brother introduced me to a factory in
China, I'm said, I don't need you.
And, you know, the truth is hardbecause they're up for a rude
awakening with really what's coming down the pipeline because
there is a process involved. Factories don't want to mess
around with things that are not going to be revenue building.
(39:39):
You know, unless, you know, again, when I would walk off the
airplane in India, there would be like a red carpet at the
fabric mill appointments becauseI was the buyer for the Tommy
Hilfiger fabric department. I wasn't, you know, a tiny
brand, right? And so their eyes lit up.
They received you differently. You know, you were definitely,
(39:59):
they were hungry to impress you and to earn your business, and
that's what relationships are all about.
My point in mentioning that now is these small startup brands
that don't have a Lulu logo, that don't have a Nike swoosh,
that is an identifiable Ralph Lauren polo pony.
They have to prove themselves and not only do they have to
(40:19):
prove themselves to the market eventually when they hit the
market, whenever that is 1112 months later after a full, you
know, cycle, but they really have to prove it to the supply
chain because they're looking for not one hit wonders.
They're not looking for kind of flailing arms and, you know,
careless activity because it's decision, decision, decision.
(40:42):
Sign off on this, strike off. Where's my fabric approval?
I can't start cutting until I have fabric.
I can't have fabric until I issue an order for fabric.
I can't order the fabric until you sign off on the fabric.
And then we do color developmentand lab dipping and print
development and testing. And then the lead times to get
to sewing is, you know, 306090 days sometimes depending on what
(41:06):
fabric you choose. So the garment maker is a piece
of the pie. So, you know, I always smile and
let people, you know, tell me what they've accomplished
because they found someone on Alibaba and they're, you know,
they don't know who they're talking to.
They don't know how many children and underage workers
are on the other side of the computer.
(41:27):
They don't know if their money is going to be taken and nothing
is going to be shipped in return.
And also, you know, the catastrophe of, you know, having
a box show up or 25 to 4050, a hundred boxes of a first order
that hadn't been QC inspected, that was out of spec.
And that you have a pant that came in that was, you know, the
(41:49):
left leg was shorter than the right leg.
You know, generally speaking, these entrepreneurs are very
hungry. They come from different
industries, marketing, sales, digital media, doctors, lawyers.
In fact, we, we actually launched, you know, we launched
a really cool swimwear line and sun protective swimwear line
(42:12):
that was thought of by a board certified dermatologist.
A lovely woman, lovely, lovely, lovely woman who really wanted
to, you know, put her money where her mouth is because of
the amount of Melanoma that she's treating.
But she's a fashionable professional and said there's
nothing out there in sun protective wear that is fashion
(42:32):
forward and I'm going to create that.
So she came to us didn't have knowledge of functionality
because that's what we're there for, right?
You know, and we, we collaborated to, you know, the
maximum level that we could. And, you know, along the way,
you know, having to explain to these individuals, you know,
she's a great example of where she under she knew what she
(42:55):
didn't know. And that is a key thing for us.
Huge plus working with anyone 100.
Percent. Yeah, 100%.
So you know what where are we now?
You asked, you know, I realized that the needs of the market
have shifted. So when people over the past,
you know, 19 years worked with us and engaged us, we realized
(43:19):
through trials and tribulations that they were in some cases ill
prepared for the journey, not just from an informational and
technical standpoint, right? Nobody can source fabric like I
can, right? They might have a great idea,
but I can tell you in, you know,minutes what we should fabricate
in. And then I have my team
assembled for the rest, the sketching, the design, the CAD,
(43:41):
the details, all the amazing trim developments.
But as it relates to the the missing functions, what we found
during some of our engagements, the buyers, for example, would
be very much committed to rushing to market.
I've got to get this to market before someone else copies this.
I have this unique idea and I don't want anybody else to RIP
(44:04):
me off or knock me off. And I, I would say very clearly,
you know, I understand that you don't want such and such, you
know, global brand to find out about you and copy your
technology. But I would probably recommend
that you save your shekels starting with us and apply for a
(44:26):
designer utility patent so that you can start protecting
yourself and focus on IP and notjust rush, rush, rush because
once it's in the market, it's fair game.
Just because you got there firstdoesn't make you, you know, you
know, the greatest inventor since electricity.
So, you know, that's one examplewhere we have to offset and, and
(44:47):
set the expectations of the brands because I'm, I don't have
a crystal ball, OK? I don't, I'm not there to run
their business. I'm there to be a business
advisor, project manager, fashion executive to help bring
all the pieces of the pie together.
And there's many pieces that arenot accounted for in a lot of
our engagements. So we have to fill them in
(45:08):
throughout the journey. In some cases, brands were not
committed to their logo or theirword mark.
So we're developing a collectionfactories like I told you, you
know, Tempest fugit, like where you know, I don't want to just
mess around. So I can't do full development
and full costing until I actually have the full pieces.
(45:30):
What's your logo again? What's your polo pony?
Where is it going? Is it embroidery?
Is it a heat seal? Is it a 3D Thermo welded
application that I have to do lab testing for adhesion on
cotton versus synthetic versus high texture, low pile, high
pile? So what we realized was that a
(45:53):
lot of the brands that we were shipping for were not committed
to all of I think the necessary facets of business set up before
you launch to market. I learned that we shipped a
woman's knit suit line that executed so beautifully.
I wear mine very proudly, but they didn't have their website
(46:13):
ready. So they, you know, in this 8:00
to 9:00 to 11:50 thirteen monthsthat we're working on these
brands while we're in our kitchen, whipping up these taste
tests and to go through the fit development, the product
development, the cost engineering, the fit
engineering, they should be working on the build out.
What's the distribution? So we now have logo and brand,
(46:38):
you know, and I, my art directordesigns and develops for the
brands that don't have their footing, their brand identity.
So we start with the identity. So what is the swoosh or what is
the you understand, we also do web development photo shoot, as
I believe you know, building outthe E com platforms and the
Shopify and it's it's a smaller scale than what they would be
(47:02):
forced to invest in outside at some of these very big agencies
where you get lost in the shuffle.
And so how we've packaged it is that there is one team that's
overseeing this message. It's consistent, it's clear,
it's on brand. It makes sense.
Anybody that looks at a digital presentation will understand
(47:22):
that that's the brand. When they look at the actual
physical product, the logos, thebranding, the hang tags, the
packaging, the mood, the feelingand all of it is, is synergized
where it's one set of eyes or one team set of eyes.
As opposed to, oh, I'm going to do this with this company
because again, my uncles, nephews, college roommates,
(47:43):
grandma knows this person in Norway and they have a cheap,
you know, price on such and such.
And so we try, we, we, we try our best to say, you know, do
you work a la carte? Just, you know, hand this over.
Sometimes problems happen because, you know, their logo
and branding is maybe too big tofit on the under collar of a PK
(48:05):
polo. If we had been the ones in
charge of it, we would have beenable to size it and scale it and
our creative director would know, know where those would be
placed so that my art director could generate the artwork in
accordance and compliant with the rest of the product, which
is a seamless way to do things. It's a great way to save on time
(48:25):
and cost as opposed to, you know, a lot of them outsourcing
another outsource when? We're getting really tight on
time which I can't believe this went so fast but I'm curious
when someone comes to you is it like a one off product or are
they imagining a full line with?Great question.
You know in this day and age of entrepreneurship, anything goes.
(48:50):
You know, you see one style product classifications like the
perfect T-shirt, right? The perfect pull on loungewear,
short for men, the perfect socksthat won't fall off and newborn
baby, infant or toddler because it has a technology that we
developed and built inside, you know, the edge.
(49:15):
It's at this day and age where people are launching.
Remember, if they're going into the digital space, nobody knows
them, right? And so we often times say less
is more. The hero capsule collection is
probably the best place for people to start.
You know, be it a girls tailoredsuit that is, you know, a three
piece collection or a golf line that's a 6 to 8 to 10 piece
(49:42):
collection, pickleball, what have you.
Because people want to log on and see impact.
They want to see a collection. So it's either one style with
multiple colorways and being this is my everything.
This is my my go to buy my T-shirt.
It's the best. You won't be disappointed.
And I don't need to outfit it with anything else because all I
(50:02):
care about is getting this T-shirt to market.
And that's my messaging versus the other brands that are.
I'm going to start off with a tshirt and a pant and a blazer
so that I can give the look to my guy, whoever my guy is, and
have AK Polo, a tshirt and a sweatshirt.
Let them let me acquire these customers, let my, my Google
(50:23):
acquisition and my, you know, myad work do the work.
Then based on sales, I'll add a Chino pant the next season or
I'll add a blazer or I'll add a legging to another collection
that only had a short under a dress.
So it's very, I think intelligent to have these micro
collections because what everybody is doing is kind of
(50:47):
just trying to gain access and what are you good at, right?
I'm not going to be everything to everybody in this collection.
I'm not ready to be everything. I'm not the Veronica beard yet.
I'm saying in terms of what my entrepreneurial mind is thinking
in terms of how these startups. But you know what, I would love
a killer blazer. So we're going to do a killer
blazer and I'm going to be knownas a blazer brand.
(51:09):
And then once I, the girls can'tget enough of it, I need to add
on because now I have access, I'm in their head, I'm connected
to them. I have a Direct Line to them
where I can say, here's my blazer, it's in cotton twill or
it's in this beautiful wool linen that has a little bit of
stretch and it fits you beautifully.
And in the case of the, the Veronica's, you know, they
(51:30):
started off with that blazer concept and that beautiful
Dickey and then they built on. And so I think that is a really
intelligent way that these brands should be considering
launching because the out of pocket financial commitment is
huge any other way. So with a collection of one to
seven is uniquely different and you can do the math on what it
(51:51):
looks like, you know, 20 to 30 styles times X number of units
at production what that would look like so well.
I wish we were not out of time, but we are out of time.
I have been speaking with Jamie cough.
She's the founder of Fabric to finish this.
I sure learned a lot during thisepisode.
There's going to be all kinds ofcontact information below so you
(52:13):
can get in touch with her if youhave a design or an ID you want
to explore and a budget, and she'll talk about that to you
when she speaks with you. But really, Jamie, thank you so
much. This was so informative.
It was. Such a pleasure to be here.
Thank you so much for having me.I.
Enjoyed it tremendously. I can't believe how quick the
time went. Thank you, everybody.
(52:35):
I'm Diane Grissel. This has been the Silver
Disobedience Perception Dynamicspodcast.
We're recording in beautiful Manhattan center on West 34th
St. in New York City. Please hit subscribe, follow
Jamie so you can pay attention to all the great things she's
doing. And please do share this episode
after you subscribe. Thanks.
(52:56):
Thank you, Jamie. Thank you.
Hello everybody. I have a really great guest
today. Her name's Jamie Cough.
She is the founder and presidentof a company named Fabric to
Finish. And what she literally does is
helps designers take their dreamfrom that sketch on the paper.
(00:21):
Sometimes it doesn't even start with a sketch.
It starts with an idea in their head.
And she takes that design from inception straight through to
choosing the fabrics, materials,hardware, manufacturers and
getting it to the finish where it can go down a runway or be on
(00:42):
a website or be hanging in a store or someplace else.
And she's got a great history that bought her to this level of
expertise. So we're going to start there
and then we're going to talk about how she works today for
many designers and want to be designers and existing
designers. So it's going to be a lot of
(01:03):
fun. Stay tuned.
Welcome, Jamie. Cough.
Hi. Fabric to finish.
So I know at some point you had an idea that this was a good
idea for a business, but it started with a lot of
experience. Prior you worked for some really
(01:25):
big names to get your experienceas AI.
Believe it was a production linemanager, production coordinator,
production coordinator. So let's talk about what's a
production coordinator and who you worked for to start to
develop your core skill sets. Well, I'd be happy to share.
(01:46):
Well first and foremost, production coordinator has many
different definitions, but it's a very, and my experience, a
very entry level position. Mine in particular was at j.crew
back in the early 90s when it was still family owned, well
before Mickey Drexler came in and sprinkled his magic fairy
dust. But at that time I was strictly
(02:09):
an assistant to two production managers where I learned a lot
of the underbelly of the business.
It was very administrative dealing with overseas offices.
Back in the day, j.crew had a Singapore office.
We had buying offices in severalother countries and so it was
very much facilitating a lot of the day-to-day purchase order
issuing and delivery tracking. And my claim to fame is being in
(02:33):
charge of the morning fax machine, which was a full time
job at the time because this waspre Internet and it was just
when you had a direct electronice-mail line to your overseas
offices just for e-mail letters,not attachments.
So everything was very much fax based.
(02:55):
So you can imagine the influx offaxes that came in in the
morning from an overnight. And the pages flying all over
and trying to put the pages backtogether.
And not paper, not being in the machine.
And you know, as I always say tomy my staff and my students that
I mentor. Why?
What is the CC? And the BCC meaning came from an
old fashioned fax machine, whichis a prehistoric dinosaur in
(03:18):
their book. So, so it was very
administrative. It was foundational.
And you know, I got in at 7730 in the morning and I left at ten
11:00 at night. And if that's any indication of
how much I put into that, that that's simple.
Production line coordinator. Was this something that was your
first job, your first entree into the world of fashion and
(03:42):
design? Actually, j.crew was my first
job. You know, a little back story.
I was not permitted to go to fashion school.
My parents were both professionals and said you will
never be able to support yourself in the fashion
industry. So we would like for you to have
a proper liberal arts education.And in hindsight, I absolutely
(04:03):
am grateful that they imposed that ban on me because it really
well-rounded my myself as an individual and as you know,
somebody who was growing and maturing into their own
existence through college and understanding you know how to
be. But really, I found my passion
(04:24):
and started interviewing for sending faxes and cover letters
back to the fax machine out to hundreds.
Of those huge New York Times pages.
Well, frankly, I didn't know anybody in the fashion industry
and I didn't know how good of a networker I was.
But I think back, I networked with, you know, a second
(04:46):
cousin's second cousin on the other side because they just
knew somebody that was in fashion.
So, OK, you meet and this individual referred me to a
publication called Woman's Wear Daily, and I didn't know about
it as a senior at GW. And I looked it up.
I found that they sold it at a newsstand in Dupont Circle.
(05:08):
So I took the Metro and I went to Dupont Circle.
But I was sure to go on a Wednesday because I was told on
Wednesday they had the classified section, right?
I mean, this is I'm dating myself.
I remember. And so I went and bought my
copy, got back on the Metro and started, you know, sending
random cover letters to these random fax numbers that in some
cases had no information. They didn't say, you know, Ralph
(05:31):
Lauren is hiring. In some cases they had the big
ad with the logo and you wanted to apply to a recognizable
brand. But you know, there were brands
in there that I didn't know about, but I was just for
practice purposes, sending coverletters and faxes.
And and, you know, as as the story goes, I was interning at a
law firm my senior year. They offered me a full time job
(05:54):
to stay as an associate, which was never my goal in life.
And I set up interviews in New York at, you know, the Macy's
buying program, the Bloomingdale's buying program,
thinking how do I get into the industry history, not having a
technical background, not being a designer or a merchant or a
sales expert, but how to get in,somehow get my foot in.
(06:17):
And so I set up interviews to come up from DC, take the 5:00
in the morning train because I didn't know anybody spent the
whole day interviewing and nothing came out of that first
day. I set up a second round and as
the story goes, when I went backto my apartment from the lost
the the law firm job because I left my luggage, my overnight
(06:39):
bag in my apartment, I wound up networking and found a friend of
a friend of a friend who knew somebody so that I didn't have
to take that God awful 5:00 in the morning train.
So when I came back to my apartment, I saw the light
blinking on my answering machine.
And you know, back in the day, you couldn't, you know, I
couldn't even call in to retrieve my messages.
And I pressed play and it turnedout to be somebody from j.crew
(07:03):
saying that they got my resume and they hope it wasn't too late
and that I'm that they missed mebecause they saw on my cover
letter I'll be up on Friday, such and such.
Whatever it was, it was MemorialDay weekend.
It was that Friday. I remember it.
And so I immediately called and said, I'm absolutely able to see
you tomorrow. At the end of the day, I squeeze
(07:23):
them in and they were my last appointment and I wound up
getting the job offer and so in the men's knits durables
department. So I packed up my apartment in
DC in two weeks, found an apartment in New York, moved up
and started working at j.crew. And never how.
Long were you at j.crew, for youwere recruiting to another big
(07:47):
name well. I, I was there for a year and
you know, full admission, I wasn't recruited.
I was terminated. And you know, as the story goes,
so were my predecessors and the people that were that came well
after me. There were, you know, it was
tough to keep people in that role.
(08:08):
And, you know, times were fast flowing and, you know,
inexperienced managers and it's all good.
I learned a tremendous amount from that experience.
But I networked my way into the Tommy Hilfiger human resources
department, which then kind of parlayed me into my next job
opportunity, which was a fabric assistant at Tommy Hilfiger
(08:29):
Menswear. Fabric assistant.
What's a fabric assistant? Well, that's a good question
because they they kind of created the opportunity for me.
Basically it's it's product development and production
function, but strictly focusing on fabric.
So the fabric or are you? Designing the No, no, it's the
(08:50):
fabric or sourcing it. Sourcing.
And and managing the process of its inception through to
completion. So the design team were very
much involved in all of the adoption, pitching all the ideas
to Tommy, putting their rig boards together, you know, their
creative presentations, you know, whatever the theme was of
that season, you know, prep techor you know, whatever military,
(09:15):
Americana, whatever those those themes were.
Then they would select their fabrics based on the
opportunities within whatever price points and fabric minimums
and sourcing requirements that the production team dictated.
So we worked very hand in hand with the production team.
In fact, we were under the the head of production who oversee
(09:36):
the efforts and who oversaw the efforts, excuse me, But
primarily what I find really unique about that experience is
that it was its own massive function within a corporate
structure. And from what I understand
throughout my journey, fabric was a big deal, but it was never
an entire entity. You know, I think a lot of
(09:58):
companies not undervalued or undermine the importance of
fabric as a function, but we in the Tommy world, we're very much
very linear as it related to that function.
For example, in some cases, factories would want to price
out a Chino pan or a dress shirtor a zip up jacket or
(10:19):
performance puffer and just say,here's our package, use our
fabric. In the world of vertically, you
know, integrated functionality, it was really important for
Tommy's team and the whole methodology of the company to
have full transparency and to have supply chain access.
So my entire background and history was building a building
(10:41):
and maintaining and creating these relationships with all of
these vendors as a function, youknow, visiting the fabric mills
in Taiwan to hand off the YondaiPlaid programs, you know, so
once the line was designed and tech packs were issued, I had,
you know, 202225 plaids that we would then decide how to
allocate where, which mills got those plaids and what was the
(11:03):
poplin construction and what wasthe price point from last season
and how to keep feeding and nurturing these relationships
while they were manufacturing a product that was, you know, a
significant amount of quantity. So what does a fabric assistant
do was working day-to-day with all of the offices with our
counterparts and a lot of those offices were the on the ground
(11:25):
team. So be it our sole office, our
Taipei office, our Hong Kong office or India or you know,
Israel, Turkey office, we were the the, the intermediaries of
the process and the overseas teams were the ones that
everyday color approvals, lab dip approvals, lab dip
resubmissions. Because every part of fashion is
(11:47):
a time in action calendar, right?
So in order to get it to runway or to get it to Bloomies or
Macy's or Nordstrom's, it has tostart somewhere.
And so everybody has a calendar that they have to follow.
So colors have to be approved bya certain date, fabrics have to
be adopted by a certain date. Fabric testing reports have to
be submitted first proto meetings has to happen.
(12:07):
By such and such time, I mean I think back, you know a lot of
the functionality between my first overseas trips was to
prepare the rest of the team forwhat they had to do on the trip.
For example, if someone you know, if there was 32 fabrics
for the season, I'm exaggerating.
I don't I lost count how much wedeveloped, but it was my job to
(12:30):
OK, we had allocated the chambray vendor, the Yondai
popland, the 8 whale or 14 well,corduroy, you know, the two ply
canvas, whatever it was. I had to get fabric ready in
piles lined up around the conference room to hand over to
the production team who would come the week after me so that
(12:53):
they could hand over a tech packand the fabrics and the trims to
the garment factory and say here, make me a first proto.
So that time, so that time think.
Of all those stages, so that time.
Could be saved, right? So most companies just show up
and say, hi, here's my program. We would show up and prepare.
And so I would run, you know, ifthe mill didn't have the right
(13:14):
construction. What was more important for the
proto meeting was really the visuals of it.
So if it was a neon green check,right?
So what's the closest thing? So I would go to the local
market in Shamshui PO in Hong Kong and those hot, sweaty,
dirty, nasty days in Hong Kong. Dusty.
And, you know, the smell. I mean, I can smell it now for
(13:37):
those listening, you know what I'm talking about if you've been
there. But I would literally pick out,
you know, 5 to 10 yards. Oh, that's good.
Tommy Will see that, he'll understand it.
And even if it was not in the right construction, he got a
visual of the first protos that were coming through for
everybody to sign off on costing, design and development.
(13:57):
And by the time the proto meeting took place, using those
substitute fabrics and prints, we at least had strike offs and
hand looms to show him. So because hand looms only come
in a little, you know, a, a, a, a Swatch card size and you get
to see a triangle of a Plaid. So at least pretty difficult.
And yarn skeins, because mills don't have things in stock that
(14:20):
are exactly what you're looking for when you are customizing.
So yeah, the cycle is, it was a pretty big cycle.
And for, you know, an assistant in the fabric department, it was
pretty comprehensive. And what was?
The next thing you learned afterfabric department?
Well. Interestingly enough, at the
(14:40):
fabric team at Tommy, I was promoted and selected for a
pretty significant opportunity in anybody's career and it was
to be part of the startup team to launch his women's line and
his jeans line for men's and women's.
So that was pretty exceptional and you know, forever grateful
(15:04):
for that opportunity. It was a super big milestone and
from that point it became more management related.
So it was very process oriented.It was very time in action
calendar oriented. You've you've.
Used that phrase a couple of a few times.
Time in action. What does that mean in the
(15:25):
fashion business? It means your production
development calendar. You know the abbreviation is T
ampersand A. Not to be confused with another
TNA, but we always say a TNA is really this is where the season
starts and this is where the production X factory starts,
meaning when the goods leave thefinishing destiny.
(15:46):
You know, point of origin and they get picked up by the
freight team and then we're on to the next.
To the next. Season time and action calendar.
It's about delivery, so backpedaling in and so being
under the gun for timing and approvals.
Because nothing ever goes right.As anybody who works in fashion
knows, sometimes you have deadlines and trigger dates for
(16:09):
approvals. But the mill or the factory or
the denim wash house misbehaved and didn't follow your
instructions. And so as a result, you need
another submission. But that submission conflicts
with your trigger dates and commitment dates on your time
and action calendar. So it's a big whirlwind of OK
vendor figure this out or you'regoing to have a late delivery
(16:32):
which you're going to be responsible for airing XYZ.
So time and action calendar is ahard thing to sum up and you
know. That's a good, that's a good
insight, yeah. But to to answer your question
about what what after fabric, itreally became this holistic
process of of really, you know, project management, fabric and
(16:53):
and product development management, because I segwayed
into denim and washing and whichis a whole other function,
right? So anybody that goes to a store
and buys a blouse, 9 out of 10 times it's goods that's just cut
from the role of fabric. If you're walking into polar, if
you're walking into rag and bone, if you're walking into you
know, you know, any, any jeans line or the gap or you see that
(17:17):
there's a wash. So that is a process.
It involves development. It involves wash trials, laundry
trials. So that kind of segwayed my role
so. That's what it means when you
see the word wash, yes? Wet processing.
So a denim, Every fabric comes off of the loom in its rigid,
raw form. And most of the time when it
(17:40):
comes to sportswear or a finished product, it requires a
wet process, meaning it has to go through a wash cycle to
soften it. So maybe there's a French Terry
sweatshirt that you buy, you know, at Target and it feels
yummy that probably had a rinse wash with a little bit of
softener in it. But nothing comes off of the
loom perfectly, you know, finished.
(18:03):
So that's why there's a whole other process that involves
product development because thatinvolves shrinkage and shrinkage
patterns. So, you know, a lot of designers
now are putting dry clean only on their labels because they
know that the fabric has a very high shrinkage rate and they're
working with a factory that doesn't have laundry facilities.
(18:25):
So they have a disclaimer. They basically say dry clean
only to protect themselves. But the process involved in that
is a is a high level, you know, production, development,
technical design process wherebyevery style will have a, an
after wash measurements move, unlike silks or something that's
(18:48):
really a dry clean only product.So did that answer your question
about yes it? Did OK, so now what are you
doing in your new? What were you doing in your next
role? Well.
Broadening your experience my. Next role really, really moved
into denim and wet processing, to be honest with you.
So after my Tommy Jeans world, I, I actually was recruited over
(19:09):
to DKNY jeans and active to fulfil that same kind of role,
but more in a, in a, you know, in a manager director level.
And so that was very hands on with again, wash development,
getting submits from the factoryon the fabrics that we chose
because it's a 2A2 pronged function.
In some cases it's 3 pronged because you need to not just
(19:31):
see, you have to see wash panels, right?
Double needle stitching or triple needle stitching or cross
stitching or something to show how did the effect of the wash
breakdown the fabric? Is there a high color loss?
Can you see contrast? Can you see a cross hatch in the
construction? Is it a very slubby yarn?
(19:51):
Because once you start to wash, color goes away, right?
Indigo is not color fast, it's avegetable dye.
So there's all of these iterations of finding the right
fabric that would give the righteffect, and not every fabric
washes and performs the same way.
What I tried to do when I was inthat role was to bring forth
(20:11):
the, the practice of of my Tommylife, which was to build product
efficiency to, to build the collection where you got more
bang for your buck. Which is why his business was so
successful, right? The jeans that started off maybe
there were two or three denim base cloth, that's it.
(20:31):
You know, a basic Jean, a wide, whatever the original jeans
were, there was a Carpenter. I mean, it was kind of before
this whole jeans craze. It was before 7 jeans and all of
that. And I, I brought the fact that
when I went to DK, they were doing this denim with this male.
And I'm going to work with Japanwith that.
I'm going to work with Italy forthat and Spain because I love
(20:54):
this and I want to be all over the place.
And but there was something about being all over the place
that you couldn't maintain brandconsistency.
And So what I tried to infuse into that system was this kind
of maintained, not controlled because that's a bad word.
But this very streamlined where possible approach when you
(21:17):
fabricate a collection so that a, you could be more meaningful
to a fabric mill and have a 5 to10 to 25,000 yard order and get
3 washes out of that versus having to do it with this mill
and that mill and that mill. And to create your siblings that
way instead of giving birth fromone base cloth where you could
(21:38):
have some twins, fraternal and identical.
So it all goes down to the performance of each fabric and
really identifying how can I maximize utilization.
Can this be used in other styles?
Why do I need to run two different corduroys?
Can I run 1? You know, in in in the terms of
(21:58):
shirting, same thing. It's so.
Fascinating when you talk about it because I've heard the word
wash, you know, for as long as Ican remember.
But I never thought of when theysay, you know, triple wash denim
or this denim or. But I do remember my horror when
I got this pair of jeans that I just loved and they had that
really stiff effect and I wantedthem to stay that way.
(22:20):
I thought they were really cool.And the first time they came out
of the wash. I'm like postage.
Stamp. Shrunk, they turn like this
blurry blue. They no longer had the
difference between the really dark blue and the and the white
that you could see was made of black or blue and white stitches
to make that really stiff fabric.
(22:41):
It was all gone. It was all a blur of blue.
Well. Did you follow the care
instructions? Probably.
Not because I'm sure they said dry clean and I'm like dry clean
my jeans. Not a chance now.
I know, but lay flat to dry as well.
Oh. Interesting to maintain.
Color, yeah. Saturation and all that stuff,
(23:01):
yeah. Yeah, it's, it's very
fascinating because I also just had a oil pair of jeans, a black
oil jeans. Oh my gosh, big mistake.
Put them in the washing machine.Put the dryer.
You're. Recognizable coated.
Yeah, they don't. Even look like the same pants,
Yeah. I think the lesson in in this
(23:22):
story is that you need to read your care labels a little bit
better. And that's honestly, that was
also part of the process becausepeople, you know, people are
stupid. I'm sorry I said it, but you
know, there's liability when youdon't say certain things to warn
against certain things. You know, they, and I always say
(23:44):
this to my clients now, you know, you really have to assume
that the customer is dumb AF andthat they are going to want to
pull a fast one on you because, you know, if you're an ecom
business and they want to wear things and return it and say,
you know, so we do things to offset and to mitigate those
potential, you know, mishaps. So, and it all comes down to
(24:07):
protecting the brand and making sure in clear writing, you know,
do not put these in the dryer orelse.
And now, you know, even with theadmin of denim, as you probably
remember in, in in the 90s wherethey had those special hang
tags, you know, warning, do not sit on light surface, right?
(24:27):
Because so many people would getinto this dark denim, rigid
denim salvage denim phase. And you left your you left your
blue stain on. It on your.
White House West, right? And so it's and again, people
sue for that stuff. They are, you know, they're
hungry for litigation, so. So you were at Donna Karan and
then what? Then what's happening after they
(24:48):
so after? That during there, after that I
went to work for a small designer called Cynthia Steffi
and that was an interesting experience.
It was on 7th Ave. The elevator of our building at
5:50 had all the famous names, you know, Michael Kors, Jill
(25:09):
Stewart, Isaac Mizrahi, you know, you ride the elevator and
you just are like, wow, what an amazing, you know, you know, you
know, to be in this company, what an experience every
morning. And it was a small company.
It had a sample room in the back.
It was very small, very small family run.
(25:29):
I think they were very enamouredwith my big company background
and my fabric assets. And so it was really a learning
curve for me and how to adapt toa small company environment and,
you know, again, shift. Very.
There's a lot of people go from the small company to the big
company. We went from the very big, very.
(25:51):
Much. Wow.
Yeah, I mean, I went from havinga stocked refrigerator at the
office with cranberry juice and Pepsi and Coke to having my
paycheck bouncing, right? So, you know, but what I learned
was immeasurable. And you know, I don't regret any
of that because it really was mytime to see where I could be a
(26:17):
big fish in a small sea rather than a small fish in a big sea
in in my professional life, to see what that felt like.
And from there, gosh, I'm tryingto remember where I went from
there. I, I did some consulting work.
There were some celebrities thatwere looking to start their
clothing lines that, you know, I, I'm, I'm not able to share
(26:40):
here, but let's just say I had some fun experiences with some
Grammy award-winning, you know, singer.
And from there, I wound up beingrecruited back to my former
colleagues that started this NewYork office license of a French
parent company to launch all of these designer children's wear
(27:01):
brands. So it was my my Polo Jean.
I left off Polo jeans. I was head of fabric and wash
development for the for men's and women's.
So a bunch of my Polo former colleagues and a bunch of my
Tommy former colleagues joined forces and it was all very
incestuous. We all worked in the same
places. And then they said, come back,
let's launch this New York office of this big French
(27:23):
company. And it was very much like
setting up. It was setting up a new
business. I was always intrigued by that.
I always say one of the reasons why I started my own company was
because of my entrepreneurial spirits and juices that were
very much activated from that Tommy experience where I was
selected to be part of that startup.
(27:45):
And, and it really was, as I say, starting up a company at
the time within AI think it was a 300, three, $150 million
company at the time was a prettyinteresting opportunity to learn
how to start a business, right. It's not every day that you get
to sit at the table with some ofthe best leadership in the
industry and to learn from them and to make mistakes and do it
(28:08):
better and get it to market and scratch it and get on an
airplane Saturday night of Thanksgiving weekend.
Because Tommy wasn't happy with the first round of protos and we
had to go put in a second round within 48 hours and bring them
back to him. I mean, that doesn't happen in
everyday, normal fashion Americaas far as I'm concerned, but
that startup energy is really what invigorated me.
(28:31):
And I took that to this children's wear license.
It was called CWF Children Worldwide Fashion, and it was a
huge, huge French company that owned all of the designer
children's wear licenses for like Timberland, DKNY Kids,
Nike, Evisu, Burberry, you name it.
And they opened up this New Yorkoffice to bridge the opportunity
(28:52):
into the US to take on more licenses.
And so we didn't, you know, I was there for about two years
and the Frenchies, as we called them, they flew in one day and
kind of shut the operation down unannounced.
And that was, that was July of 2006.
I had just gotten back from two weeks overseas, brought back
(29:14):
suitcases of salesman samples and wash trials for all of the
DKNY kids, denim and juniors andthey shut the company down and
Oh my. Gosh, that.
Was when I said OK? Time to start something Time.
To of my own time to do it. Yeah, yeah.
So now we're up to Fabric to Finish.
(29:36):
Explain to everyone listening what is Fabric to finish, What
does it mean to you and what do you offer?
Wow, What does it mean? To me, it means a lot of
wrinkles and sleepless nights. So that's a very honest, direct
answer. You know, listen, embarking on
(29:59):
that journey was a whimsical thing that I did because one of
my, you know, best friends and mentors in life, you know,
basically when I was, you know, going over to the fabric shows
in the fall of 2006, she said just casually, oh, so you're
starting your own business, right?
And I said, OK, OK, I guess I am.
(30:20):
So there wasn't a grand plan. The grand plan for me was the
the aha moment when I realized when large corporate America was
not responsive to my outreach after I left the children's wear
world. And I said, wow, you know,
(30:41):
that's interesting. I have all the skill set I just
came out of starting. You know, I know how to start
from scratch. Our sourcing abilities are
incredible. I know I could lend an
opportunity to denim and washingto some companies that it's not
their core competency, right? So it's like a Talbots or, you
know, Chico's or something whereyou know, they're not known for
(31:01):
their denim there. They have expertise in other, in
other areas of the market. And I said, you know what, I'm
going to bring a solution because back in the day there
were no fractional anything fractional is a buzzword now,
right? Back in the day, we had
outsourced graphic designers forT-shirt programs, right, because
it was a seasonal business and he didn't have a graphic
(31:22):
designer on staff at any of you know, the pole of the Tommy, the
DK Sean John that we had a an art director because most of his
business was graphic. But to continue the thought,
what I realized when they weren't interested in, in my
proposition of let me support you and help in this part of
(31:44):
your business, IE denim and washing, I said, OK, they don't
need me, right? And I, I really, you know, I'm
emotional. I need to feel needed.
And I realized that there's a whole market that nobody was
tapping into and it was the independent and emerging
designer market. And that's when I realized
(32:05):
that's where I needed to shift because my, my first client
out-of-the-box was it was Diane von Furstenberg, but not her
brand. It was her creative director at
the time, Nathan Genden, and talented, brilliant, brilliant
designer that she was supportinghis own namesake ready to wear
(32:25):
collection and they needed somebody to manage it and they
couldn't infiltrate the internalDVF system because they had all
their parts in place. It was a very successful
operation and I, I wound up signing Nathan as my first
client. And so again, independent and
emerging, He's well named in theindustry, worked as creative
(32:48):
director for one of the biggest recognizable global brands, but
didn't have infrastructure to help pull it together.
And so that was where it all started.
And, you know, setting up the design studio, making sure that
everything was contained within the boundaries of what finances
(33:09):
I was told to maintain based on the accounting department.
Because, you know, creatives don't look at price tags.
They don't look at price per yard or price per meter.
And if fabric out of Italy for atailored suiting collection is
47 to 57 euros a meter, you can do the math on how much that
(33:29):
might cost per piece based on anconsumption or yielding
exercise. But I literally was able to kind
of build out his business model and oversee the operations, get
him to London Fashion Week, arrange everything, all the
sales appointments, you know, atthe Creon Hotel in Paris and
Netaporte and all of that stuff.It was very all-encompassing.
(33:52):
It was extremely rewarding and exhausting and overwhelming, but
it was absolutely what I signed up for as it related to
targeting those independent and emerging brands.
And so while it started off as an exclusive relationship, once
the market crashed and the that whole housing boom thing
(34:14):
happened, you know, Diane pulledthe plug.
They kind of turned off the faucet, closed the collection
and I wound up building the multi faceted, multi brand
consulting agency that I originally had envisioned.
So brands that were looking for stability, a full turnkey
(34:35):
solution, back office, people that had ideas but weren't
technically educated. They didn't have a design
background, they didn't know howto spec a garment.
They didn't understand fabric construction or drape or wash if
it were going to be a processed program.
And so they they leaned into fabric to finish as their source
(34:56):
of opportunity for the full service under one roof.
And that's what we became, and that's what we still are now.
When? You say full service under one
roof, so you explain how the process works.
Somebody finds you somehow. How do most people find you?
Word of mouth. We dropped leaflets from
airplane. I'm just kidding, Google.
(35:17):
Actually, we were on the maker'sroad platform for a considerable
amount of time, but now it's primarily word of mouth and the
Google, you know, whenever I meet a potential perspective,
you know, when we have our firstinitial phone call, I'm like,
how did we meet? Was it they said Google?
I said I love that matchmaker. She's good, you know, So and
(35:38):
what? What are the What are the
phrases they're searching to find you fashion?
Consultant, fabric sourcing, production management,
production manager, you know, fashion one stop shop, those
kind of things. And so I think generally
speaking, what what we have found is, and I talk a lot about
(36:00):
this on our weekly, you know, vlog series that we, we put to
our socials. I talk about the fact that, you
know, fashion is not IKEA. And I'm very much simplifying it
by saying that because I think the outside world, as you know,
if I revert back to the beginning of our conversation
where I was forbidden to go to fashion school, I was forbidden
(36:22):
because, you know, I think that,you know, the lack of
understanding about the industryand the, you know, this concept
that it's just a dumb, dumb thing and you know, you're not
going to make anything out of yourself.
But frankly speaking, I think the outside world in the
entrepreneurial space think similarly.
Oh, I can do this myself. I don't have to pay anybody to
(36:47):
help design my collection. And this is well before AI and
3D design programming. And So what we realized was that
most a lot of people that came through our doors to meet us and
to interview us for opportunities to work together,
(37:07):
we're under an interesting impression that there wasn't
really much involved. You know, I, I, I could believe
that wholeheartedly because I think most people would not do
pretty much anything they do in life if they actually understood
how much work is underneath thatservice that they have no idea.
(37:30):
You know, people go into businesses and they, you know,
where they start a job and they think, you know, oh, I want, I
want to be president Jamie. That's what my goal is with this
interview. I want to, I want your job, you
know, but they don't understand the 20-30 years you put into all
(37:50):
the. Steps involved.
Again, I think people simplify it because in this world of
TikTok and Instagram, everythingis a 2 minute video and it's
like poof, you know, you can stand up, change your outfit,
hit the button and show, you know, your morning outfit and
your nighttime outfit. But you know, she had to get her
hair and makeup done. She had to have a fitting for
those pants. Like, you know, she had to put
(38:11):
her baby down for the nap. Like there's so much more to, I
mean. Just just the idea.
If somebody said, well, I want to be at T-shirt manufacturer,
you know, well, whose label's going to be on that?
You know, are you going to put sizing stickers on it?
What's the packaging that's going to go on it?
What's the what's the fabric going to be?
Is it going to be shrink wrappedwhen you're done?
(38:33):
I mean, it's unbelievable the level, exactly.
Because factories are, you know,as I say, I, I jokingly call
them real estate agents because they're really just looking to
sell their under the needle, right?
So they're they have a business under.
The meaning. They have sewers, they have
employees, and they have to keepfilling the sewing line.
(38:54):
Period. End of story.
So what? They're there to grow their
relationship, but really what they need to do is keep feeding
their workers. So they're not there to mince
words. They're not there to do all The
Dirty work, right. I think a lot of these newcomers
think that, oh, you know, if once I, you know, my uncle's dog
(39:16):
walkers, nephew's brother introduced me to a factory in
China, I'm said, I don't need you.
And, you know, the truth is hardbecause they're up for a rude
awakening with really what's coming down the pipeline because
there is a process involved. Factories don't want to mess
around with things that are not going to be revenue building.
(39:39):
You know, unless, you know, again, when I would walk off the
airplane in India, there would be like a red carpet at the
fabric mill appointments becauseI was the buyer for the Tommy
Hilfiger fabric department. I wasn't, you know, a tiny
brand, right? And so their eyes lit up.
They received you differently. You know, you were definitely,
(39:59):
they were hungry to impress you and to earn your business, and
that's what relationships are all about.
My point in mentioning that now is these small startup brands
that don't have a Lulu logo, that don't have a Nike swoosh,
that is an identifiable Ralph Lauren polo pony.
They have to prove themselves and not only do they have to
(40:19):
prove themselves to the market eventually when they hit the
market, whenever that is 1112 months later after a full, you
know, cycle, but they really have to prove it to the supply
chain because they're looking for not one hit wonders.
They're not looking for kind of flailing arms and, you know,
careless activity because it's decision, decision, decision.
(40:42):
Sign off on this, strike off. Where's my fabric approval?
I can't start cutting until I have fabric.
I can't have fabric until I issue an order for fabric.
I can't order the fabric until you sign off on the fabric.
And then we do color developmentand lab dipping and print
development and testing. And then the lead times to get
to sewing is, you know, 306090 days sometimes depending on what
(41:06):
fabric you choose. So the garment maker is a piece
of the pie. So, you know, I always smile and
let people, you know, tell me what they've accomplished
because they found someone on Alibaba and they're, you know,
they don't know who they're talking to.
They don't know how many children and underage workers
are on the other side of the computer.
(41:27):
They don't know if their money is going to be taken and nothing
is going to be shipped in return.
And also, you know, the catastrophe of, you know, having
a box show up or 25 to 4050, a hundred boxes of a first order
that hadn't been QC inspected, that was out of spec.
And that you have a pant that came in that was, you know, the
(41:49):
left leg was shorter than the right leg.
You know, generally speaking, these entrepreneurs are very
hungry. They come from different
industries, marketing, sales, digital media, doctors, lawyers.
In fact, we, we actually launched, you know, we launched
a really cool swimwear line and sun protective swimwear line
(42:12):
that was thought of by a board certified dermatologist.
A lovely woman, lovely, lovely, lovely woman who really wanted
to, you know, put her money where her mouth is because of
the amount of Melanoma that she's treating.
But she's a fashionable professional and said there's
nothing out there in sun protective wear that is fashion
(42:32):
forward and I'm going to create that.
So she came to us didn't have knowledge of functionality
because that's what we're there for, right?
You know, and we, we collaborated to, you know, the
maximum level that we could. And, you know, along the way,
you know, having to explain to these individuals, you know,
she's a great example of where she under she knew what she
(42:55):
didn't know. And that is a key thing for us.
Huge plus working with anyone 100.
Percent. Yeah, 100%.
So you know what where are we now?
You asked, you know, I realized that the needs of the market
have shifted. So when people over the past,
you know, 19 years worked with us and engaged us, we realized
(43:19):
through trials and tribulations that they were in some cases ill
prepared for the journey, not just from an informational and
technical standpoint, right? Nobody can source fabric like I
can, right? They might have a great idea,
but I can tell you in, you know,minutes what we should fabricate
in. And then I have my team
assembled for the rest, the sketching, the design, the CAD,
(43:41):
the details, all the amazing trim developments.
But as it relates to the the missing functions, what we found
during some of our engagements, the buyers, for example, would
be very much committed to rushing to market.
I've got to get this to market before someone else copies this.
I have this unique idea and I don't want anybody else to RIP
(44:04):
me off or knock me off. And I, I would say very clearly,
you know, I understand that you don't want such and such, you
know, global brand to find out about you and copy your
technology. But I would probably recommend
that you save your shekels starting with us and apply for a
(44:26):
designer utility patent so that you can start protecting
yourself and focus on IP and notjust rush, rush, rush because
once it's in the market, it's fair game.
Just because you got there firstdoesn't make you, you know, you
know, the greatest inventor since electricity.
So, you know, that's one examplewhere we have to offset and, and
(44:47):
set the expectations of the brands because I'm, I don't have
a crystal ball, OK? I don't, I'm not there to run
their business. I'm there to be a business
advisor, project manager, fashion executive to help bring
all the pieces of the pie together.
And there's many pieces that arenot accounted for in a lot of
our engagements. So we have to fill them in
(45:08):
throughout the journey. In some cases, brands were not
committed to their logo or theirword mark.
So we're developing a collectionfactories like I told you, you
know, Tempest fugit, like where you know, I don't want to just
mess around. So I can't do full development
and full costing until I actually have the full pieces.
(45:30):
What's your logo again? What's your polo pony?
Where is it going? Is it embroidery?
Is it a heat seal? Is it a 3D Thermo welded
application that I have to do lab testing for adhesion on
cotton versus synthetic versus high texture, low pile, high
pile? So what we realized was that a
(45:53):
lot of the brands that we were shipping for were not committed
to all of I think the necessary facets of business set up before
you launch to market. I learned that we shipped a
woman's knit suit line that executed so beautifully.
I wear mine very proudly, but they didn't have their website
(46:13):
ready. So they, you know, in this 8:00
to 9:00 to 11:50 thirteen monthsthat we're working on these
brands while we're in our kitchen, whipping up these taste
tests and to go through the fit development, the product
development, the cost engineering, the fit
engineering, they should be working on the build out.
What's the distribution? So we now have logo and brand,
(46:38):
you know, and I, my art directordesigns and develops for the
brands that don't have their footing, their brand identity.
So we start with the identity. So what is the swoosh or what is
the you understand, we also do web development photo shoot, as
I believe you know, building outthe E com platforms and the
Shopify and it's it's a smaller scale than what they would be
(47:02):
forced to invest in outside at some of these very big agencies
where you get lost in the shuffle.
And so how we've packaged it is that there is one team that's
overseeing this message. It's consistent, it's clear,
it's on brand. It makes sense.
Anybody that looks at a digital presentation will understand
(47:22):
that that's the brand. When they look at the actual
physical product, the logos, thebranding, the hang tags, the
packaging, the mood, the feelingand all of it is, is synergized
where it's one set of eyes or one team set of eyes.
As opposed to, oh, I'm going to do this with this company
because again, my uncles, nephews, college roommates,
(47:43):
grandma knows this person in Norway and they have a cheap,
you know, price on such and such.
And so we try, we, we, we try our best to say, you know, do
you work a la carte? Just, you know, hand this over.
Sometimes problems happen because, you know, their logo
and branding is maybe too big tofit on the under collar of a PK
(48:05):
polo. If we had been the ones in
charge of it, we would have beenable to size it and scale it and
our creative director would know, know where those would be
placed so that my art director could generate the artwork in
accordance and compliant with the rest of the product, which
is a seamless way to do things. It's a great way to save on time
(48:25):
and cost as opposed to, you know, a lot of them outsourcing
another outsource when? We're getting really tight on
time which I can't believe this went so fast but I'm curious
when someone comes to you is it like a one off product or are
they imagining a full line with?Great question.
You know in this day and age of entrepreneurship, anything goes.
(48:50):
You know, you see one style product classifications like the
perfect T-shirt, right? The perfect pull on loungewear,
short for men, the perfect socksthat won't fall off and newborn
baby, infant or toddler because it has a technology that we
developed and built inside, you know, the edge.
(49:15):
It's at this day and age where people are launching.
Remember, if they're going into the digital space, nobody knows
them, right? And so we often times say less
is more. The hero capsule collection is
probably the best place for people to start.
You know, be it a girls tailoredsuit that is, you know, a three
piece collection or a golf line that's a 6 to 8 to 10 piece
(49:42):
collection, pickleball, what have you.
Because people want to log on and see impact.
They want to see a collection. So it's either one style with
multiple colorways and being this is my everything.
This is my my go to buy my T-shirt.
It's the best. You won't be disappointed.
And I don't need to outfit it with anything else because all I
(50:02):
care about is getting this T-shirt to market.
And that's my messaging versus the other brands that are.
I'm going to start off with a tshirt and a pant and a blazer
so that I can give the look to my guy, whoever my guy is, and
have AK Polo, a tshirt and a sweatshirt.
Let them let me acquire these customers, let my, my Google
(50:23):
acquisition and my, you know, myad work do the work.
Then based on sales, I'll add a Chino pant the next season or
I'll add a blazer or I'll add a legging to another collection
that only had a short under a dress.
So it's very, I think intelligent to have these micro
collections because what everybody is doing is kind of
(50:47):
just trying to gain access and what are you good at, right?
I'm not going to be everything to everybody in this collection.
I'm not ready to be everything. I'm not the Veronica beard yet.
I'm saying in terms of what my entrepreneurial mind is thinking
in terms of how these startups. But you know what, I would love
a killer blazer. So we're going to do a killer
blazer and I'm going to be knownas a blazer brand.
(51:09):
And then once I, the girls can'tget enough of it, I need to add
on because now I have access, I'm in their head, I'm connected
to them. I have a Direct Line to them
where I can say, here's my blazer, it's in cotton twill or
it's in this beautiful wool linen that has a little bit of
stretch and it fits you beautifully.
And in the case of the, the Veronica's, you know, they
(51:30):
started off with that blazer concept and that beautiful
Dickey and then they built on. And so I think that is a really
intelligent way that these brands should be considering
launching because the out of pocket financial commitment is
huge any other way. So with a collection of one to
seven is uniquely different and you can do the math on what it
(51:51):
looks like, you know, 20 to 30 styles times X number of units
at production what that would look like so well.
I wish we were not out of time, but we are out of time.
I have been speaking with Jamie cough.
She's the founder of Fabric to finish this.
I sure learned a lot during thisepisode.
There's going to be all kinds ofcontact information below so you
(52:13):
can get in touch with her if youhave a design or an ID you want
to explore and a budget, and she'll talk about that to you
when she speaks with you. But really, Jamie, thank you so
much. This was so informative.
It was. Such a pleasure to be here.
Thank you so much for having me.I.
Enjoyed it tremendously. I can't believe how quick the
time went. Thank you, everybody.
(52:35):
I'm Diane Grissel. This has been the Silver
Disobedience Perception Dynamicspodcast.
We're recording in beautiful Manhattan center on West 34th
St. in New York City. Please hit subscribe, follow
Jamie so you can pay attention to all the great things she's
doing. And please do share this episode
after you subscribe. Thanks.
(52:56):
Thank you, Jamie. Thank you.
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