August 18, 2025 • 50 mins
Grieving, Healing, and Finding Love Again | Diane Pike Heiler's Inspiring StoryIn this episode of the Silver Disobedience Perception Dynamics podcast, host Dian Griesel sits down with Diane Pike Heiler, author of 'A Widow's Fire'. They dive into Diane's journey of caregiving for her ailing husband, grieving his loss, and eventually finding love again. Diane shares her personal experiences, emotional struggles, and the importance of self-discovery and openness in forging new relationships. Her heartfelt story is filled with wisdom and insights on living life to the fullest, even after significant loss. This episode is a must-watch for anyone dealing with grief, caregiving, or looking to find new love later in life.
Please SUBSCRIBE! I’m Dian Griesel, Ph.D. aka @SilverDisobedience to my hundreds of thousands of monthly blog readers. You can learn more about me here: https://diangriesel.com
But for starters…I am a perception analyst, counselor, hypnotherapist, author of 16 books and a Wilhelmina model. For 30 years I have helped my clients to achieve greater understanding as to how perceptions impact everything we do whether personally or professionally.
This episode was recorded in collaboration with The Manhattan Center, New York City, New York. https://www.themanhattancenter.com/
SHOW RUN: 00:00 Introduction to Caregiving and Loss00:51 Guest Introduction: Diane Pike Heiler02:04 Diane's Personal Journey04:19 The Concept of Widow's Fire07:11 Family Reactions and Support09:34 Navigating Grief and New Relationships14:17 Reflections on Grief and Moving Forward17:26 Embracing New Beginnings25:11 The Role of an Editor25:25 Redhead Stories and Family Anecdotes28:25 Meeting Bob and First Impressions30:38 Building a Relationship with Bob34:00 Advice on Life After Loss36:32 Embracing Life and New Beginnings43:14 Meeting Bob's Mother45:37 Final Thoughts and Encouragement
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi. Did you know that one in four
American adults are in some formof a caregiving role?
And many of those adults are caring for their spouses, But
what happens when that caregiving ends in loss for that
caregiver? A full range of emotions come
(00:24):
into play, and one of them, verysadly, is often guilt.
And where's that guilt come from?
Society, friends, neighbors, children.
All who maybe mean well but havetheir own ideas in their head
about when it's OK for you to start living your life again,
(00:45):
dating, maybe getting out just plain smiling more.
Today we have a really wonderfulguest Who shared a very intimate
story. Her name is Diane Pike Heiler.
Her book is a widow's Fire, and in this book, in a combination
(01:07):
of what I would call mini essays, dated, exploring her
journey along with some really heartfelt poetry, she tells her
story of going from caregiver towhat that's like after a loss
with family and children and friends and everyone else into
(01:28):
finding love again after all of that.
So welcome, Diane. So nice to be here.
Oh my gosh, it is a pleasure to have you because we're going to
be talking about a topic that istruly near and dear to me.
My parents were married 50 yearswhen my father died.
Everyone had all their opinions on my mother, who was a
(01:51):
firecracker at 80 years old. And I really kept saying, mom,
we love dad, but you got to get out and live.
You have a lot of living in you.And I'll admit, ultimately she
did. And I'm curious what inspired
you to tell this story? First of all, my husband laid
(02:14):
out the road map. He had lost his wife after a
long, very happy marriage. She died of ovarian cancer.
I met him two months after she was gone.
And I was shocked. On the second day I said, well,
how long has your wife been gone?
He said two months. And I went, Oh my gosh, I do not
(02:38):
want to be the one who helps himthrough this morning period.
And I almost walked away from him.
And yet he said no. He said, I've been mourning for
two years. She was dying for two years.
And I know I have to go forward in my life.
(02:58):
Yeah. When he died, just before he
died, he related this story to me again.
And he said you will need to find another.
And I said, absolutely not. I've had a great marriage.
I do not need another man in my life.
I'm very comfortable being alone.
Well, little did I know that after two months of not having a
(03:23):
hug, not having someone say, golly, it's good to have you in
my life, I realized I missed that I wanted to have another
partner. It was shocking.
It was shocking to me because I thought I have always been so
capable. I really don't need another man.
(03:45):
And I, I can even remember saying to, to al my, my former
husband, I don't need you, I want you.
Uh huh. Well, when I was by myself,
totally by myself and 81 years old, well 80 and then 81, I
(04:06):
thought I don't need a man, but I definitely want a man in my
life. And, and I had all the emotions
of widow's fire, which is a. What is Widow's Fire?
This. I mean, it's a captivating name
for your book. How do you define a widow's
(04:26):
fire? Well, I started having these
sexual feelings and and that wasshocking because I had not had
those feelings in a long, long time.
My husband was dying for two years years.
He'd had prostate cancer before that.
That part of our life was no longer.
(04:46):
And I was OK with that. I we had great conversation.
We had a very active social life.
We had everything I felt we needed.
But after he was gone, I was alone, mourning terribly, and I
had all these emotions. I wanted a hug so badly.
(05:09):
Mm hmm. I wanted a man to talk to.
I had lots of girlfriends, but Iwanted a man Mm hmm to talk to.
I I needed that part of my life back and I I stayed at home.
I refused to go out, which I I know probably was not makes it.
(05:30):
Difficult to meet someone. That's right.
And the only person I really spend any time with was my
sister who had been a widow for 11 years and she would come up
and visit me. But if if girlfriends wanted to
come over, I just said I just can't do it.
I, I just am not ready yet. But then one of my husband's
(05:52):
really good close friends calledme one day and literally said,
get out of the damn house. This is not what Hal wanted for
you. You need to get out and live
your life. So my sister said come on, let's
go to the Country Club. And I didn't want to go, but I I
(06:12):
knew I needed to and I went. I had two vodka and tonics,
which is a lot for me. And I was feeling no pain.
I was on the dance floor with mysister dancing like an idiot and
no. Like a woman having fun.
Here's a big difference. So, friends, you're.
(06:33):
Too elegant. I can't imagine you ever being
an idiot. My my good friends Roger and
Cathy Brainerd. He's an orthopedic surgeon from
Tampa, actually from Nebraska. Tapped me on this.
Yes. Tapped me on the shoulder and
said, we want you to meet our dear friend from 55 years ago
(06:54):
from Med school. And I turned around and shook
this guy's hand, said hi, Bob, let's dance.
And we've been dancing ever since.
Oh my gosh, I love this. I love this love story because
it's a love story all the way through.
It is. And why I say that is, I
remember it. You said something that really
(07:18):
hit me when my mother and when my father died.
My mother had taken care of my father for several years because
he had congestive heart failure.So she had a lot of time during
that and she ultimately had two marriages after my father died
at 80. The first one she met someone in
(07:39):
the community where she was living.
And I mean, she felt mad. They felt were madly in love.
It was, you know, the, the tourist brochures were all over
the house where they were going to live, how they were going to
change their life. I'm like, wow, if this is 82, I
can't wait. You know, I'm looking forward to
this experience in my life. This is just wild how she was
(08:01):
reinvigorated. You know, the first person she'd
ever been with was my father. So now she's got her second
Prince Charming. And when he proposed, he handed
her a piece of paper. And he said, you know, I went to
the doctor and here's my medicalresults.
I am in great health. I don't want you to think I need
you to care for me. Because he had cared for his
wife for 10 years and he was dead five months to the day of
(08:27):
their honeymoon from invasive cancer.
That I don't know if the doctor knew or not.
Well, my mother was devastated. And I, I mean, just because that
truly was a shock. There was no preparation for
that. There was no caregiving.
It was just a 123. I mean, I think it was 2 weeks
to the, you know, from the time they knew what it was and he was
(08:48):
dead and then long time and recovery.
So now she's like 85 and there'sa man she sees in church every
day who comes up to her the weekbefore Valentine's Day and says,
would you like to go on a date on Valentine's Day?
And they were married six monthslater on Valentine's Day.
(09:09):
And we're married for almost 14 years before my mother just died
and and her husband was or is he's still a wonderful guy and
with from a great family, eight years younger than her was eight
years younger than her. But we never thought she would
be the one who went first, even though that was the case.
So it was a very interesting experience and all the emotions
(09:32):
in the family. What was it like for, I don't
know if I don't want to go too personal, If you don't want to
talk about family reaction, whatwas a family reaction or friends
when you started to date? You said some people were saying
they wanted to get out, but there's a difference between
(09:52):
Diane, we want you to get out versus Diane you're dating.
Well, there's a big difference there.
I had some interesting comments,my sister said.
I cannot believe it. I take you out the first time
after. And you made Prince Charming.
She said I have been a widow for11 years.
Thank you very much. She's happy for me, very happy
(10:18):
for me, my friends, very supportive.
I had texted my children, my four children and my 2 stepsons
because I wanted to tell them before any friends got to him
and said, well I'm glad your mother's dating.
I think that would have really upset them.
(10:41):
So I thought the smart thing to do was to text him.
I'm a big texter, which is funnyin itself because for years I
said I don't text and, and I, I finally one of the grandsons was
in college and kept texting me and I kept responding, I do not
text. And then finally after a while I
said, OK, OK, I text now and I've been text from, but I
(11:08):
texted everybody and I said, I've met a lovely man.
I kind of gave some background that he was a friend of friends
that have been friends of mine for a long time.
So I sort of gave them a little short bio that this is a nice
man and I said I would like to go to dinner with him.
(11:31):
Well, I really got. There was some backflow there.
My son was good. Ironic, isn't?
It it is 2 years old and you're looking, you have to get
permission to go for dinner. And now they're questioning, you
know, well, you know, he doesn'twant your money, does he?
(11:52):
You know, and no, he has his own.
So it's really funny. I, they're doing a reverse of
what I did when they started to date.
I mean, I really, my, my therapist said Diane, She said
you're a smart woman, go for it.She said, do you realize how
(12:13):
many women out there would love to be in your shoes?
And she met, has met him and shesaid you are so fortunate.
Mm hmm. Go for it.
But his sons, my husband's sons,really took it well.
They the response from his olderson was had you not met my dad
(12:37):
two months after my mother died,he would not have had the 30
beautiful years he's had with you.
My response was, Jeff, that warms my heart.
So both. Oh, you just gave me goosebumps.
Yeah. Both.
Both boys had gone through it with their mother.
They had a hard time adjusting to me coming on the scene so
(12:59):
soon after their mother died. Who?
I did not know her, but she was a very loving mother.
And it was hard on them to see their father with with another
woman. But he knew what he needed to do
and and he did it. So he did give me the road map.
My children are having a rough time.
(13:20):
But they also lost their naturalfather about four months before
Al died. So they had a double whammy and
I honestly, the thing I feel themost guilty about is I was not
there for them to grieve. But truly, Diane, I was grieving
(13:42):
so deeply. I had never gone through
anything so painful. Mm hmm.
I could only take care of me. Yes.
I just couldn't. And and sadly enough, they had
their own lives. They they had their own husbands
and wives and children. I was alone.
(14:05):
I had my 2 Yorkshire Terriers. That was it.
So the grieving was different for me than it was for them, and
they had never seen me so weak. Stages of grief are so different
at different times of life basedon responsibilities and roles.
It's like when my father died a month after September 11th.
(14:28):
I couldn't stop crying and I wasnot particularly close with my
father. I appreciated my father but I
could not stop crying. It was weeks and weeks.
It just little things would and I think it was even though we
knew he was dying, we had seen him a month before.
We knew he wasn't in good shape.But it's like you just I did
(14:49):
just didn't expect it. And I had a one year old child,
you know, so I'm overwhelmed there and working full time.
Yet when my mother died two years ago, who I spent two years
with prior to the time she died,more time with her than I had
spent my entire life, except maybe in my, you know, preschool
(15:11):
years, you know, infant to preschool years.
I cried a little. But my crying was I had done the
caregiving I had done. We had had so many good
conversations about death. And she was a very religious
person and very also spiritual, you know, would send you notes
from Eckhart Tolle or whoever, you know, like Diane, you need
(15:34):
to read this one. You know, she was way out of her
time and all that stuff, but thedifferent set of emotions where
I observe with my brothers and sisters or my mother's kind of
second family from her, who was her husband, their reactions to
her death, where everybody reacts differently.
(15:58):
Absolutely. You know, grief is grief is so
personal, but it's also why I ama huge advocate of never telling
someone how to handle it, you know, or how to recover from it
or how to move on. You cannot judge.
No, because it is so different from everybody.
(16:19):
Yeah, and I I have to chuckle when I have girlfriends and some
of my daughters have said I would never get married again.
You just don't. Know, you know what I say,
there's no atheists in foxholes.You know when you're getting
shot at, when you're the one in pain, when you're the one
(16:39):
dealing with something and someone says, well, I would
never. Yeah, you're not the one who's.
Dealing with it. No, I I'm sure that I've said
the same thing. I used to be judgmental.
I mean, I can remember someone telling me that one of their
good friends had lost her husband and she was already
dating. And I can remember so clearly
saying, Oh my goodness. Oh, she should wait.
(17:01):
She should wait. Well, I didn't even know the
woman. And here I was.
I was judging her based on nothing that I knew when, when
Al died. This is how unrealistic I was
because we had talked about everything we had and everything
I thought I knew, everything about dying and moving forward.
(17:26):
After he died, I went up to my home in North Carolina.
I wanted to be alone. And I said, OK, I'll give myself
two weeks and I'm going to just really mourn the hell out of
this and then I'm going to be OKbecause that's how I've dealt
with my whole life. Oh yeah, we got to get this show
on the road. I know I can't waste any time
(17:49):
here and that just didn't happen.
It just you just don't put a limit on morning.
Yeah, I still more and there's you.
You, you don't ever get over it.You just learn to live with it
and accept it and know that he'sin a better place.
(18:09):
Well, you know, one of the things I'm so you've made such a
good point that I am so gratefulfor that.
My mother, you know, there were five of us on our side and there
were six kids on my mother's third husband.
I guess you would have to say, yeah, my father.
And then so we'd get together with them and I spent a lot of
(18:33):
time once they got married and, you know, we'd go visit because
our kids were little, so. And take them to Florida, go
visit Manny for the week kind ofthing.
But one of the things that fascinated me was, you know,
they were both very comfortable with talking about Bernie's
wife, Pauline, or my mother's husband, my father, Vince.
(18:54):
And then they be like, yeah, Vince would have liked this or,
oh, Pauline did this or that. It was almost like it was a
foursome, even though in in conversations it was not that
this could not be discussed. We had to deny this part of that
this life existed, which is one of the things I get a kick out
(19:16):
of Bob, you know, embracing and,you know, being being in this
supportive to this book and because it's an acknowledgement
of a big part of your life and who you are.
And but it doesn't stop. It keeps going.
It just. A lot of men, when they marry
(19:37):
you, they want to believe that your life just began.
I've been in a situation like that before where my life just
didn't begin. I I had a full life before I
married Al. But he liked to think that.
This is where we're starting he.Brought me into the world.
(19:58):
Bob is not doing that. And I so appreciate now that
we're in New York City. We went to one of my favorite
restaurants last night and Bob through the whole meal kept
saying oh this is delicious and he certainly enjoys good
restaurants and has been to manygood restaurants through the
(20:19):
years. Very well travelled and finally
I said does it bother you that Itold you that this has been for
over 30 years my go to with Al and he said not at all.
He said I'm giving 30 years to check out and make sure it was
good food. That's how that's how
(20:39):
comfortable he is with himself and I appreciate that.
That's an interesting point. Self comfort.
Oh, and how, yeah, how importantthat is in you, in Bob as a new
(21:00):
partner, in what you bring to your new relationship.
What do you have to say about that?
How does where does that self comfort come from do you think?
I think it comes from the inner person.
He's had many years. I mean, he's 4-4 or five months
(21:22):
older than me. He's 82.
I'll be 82 next month. You know, if you don't learn
something about yourself in 80 years, you're already lost.
I mean, there is no no helping that person.
But we all have to grow and learn who we are and love
(21:45):
ourselves and become a confidentperson within.
And when you have that, you're beautiful, and so is life.
You know, that's, that's a fun answer because it reminded me of
when my mother would get a little Flack from people.
And she did get a lot of Flack from girlfriends who wanted to
(22:07):
keep her, you know, in the, you know, well, the girls do this,
the girls do that. And she was still doing that,
but she was having a really goodtime with Bernie.
And you know, when she said, youknow, we're getting married?
And I was like, well, that's I love it, Mom, I think this is
(22:28):
really cool. She was, she was.
Well, not everyone does. And I'm like, mom, you're you're
a tough cookie. You've been through a lot.
And she goes, you know what? She goes, you know what I tell
them she gets real feisty. She she's a tiny little thing.
She goes, I tell him, if I don'tknow myself at 82 and what I
want, I'm never going to know myself.
(22:49):
So what difference does it make?That's true.
Well, I had someone ask me one day.
I'm really surprised that you opened up so much in your book,
Diane, she said. You don't normally tell such
private things about yourself. And my response was well, at 80
years old, what the hell, I might as well tell it.
(23:10):
You know, and what you do tell is it's I found your book
cathartic. I don't, I'm not sure why, so
I'm curious if other people havesaid that to you because I have
not lost a spouse. Men and women have said it.
Yeah. And I don't think you need to
(23:32):
have law. I don't think this is, although
it's called a widow's fire. I don't think you have to be a
widow to understand the range ora widower because I do think
this would be great for men or women to read.
And almost at any point because you tackle caregiving, loving
(23:53):
the changes that come through life, the the plethora of
emotions that you know, the UPS,the downs, the all arounds, the
numbness, you know, the feeling like you have no emotions.
You've got it all covered. And I love that you did it as
(24:14):
like you're like you're reading your diary, but at the same time
you get these poems that bring this other dimension to the
book. Well, I do have a crazy brain.
It well, it works. It works.
I'm a multitasker and I can't stay on anyone subject too long
(24:39):
because I I spread off into different areas.
But having a good editor was fantastic.
And my children have all said, mom, we figured that the editor
was probably writing the book for you.
But once they read the book, they said we hear you talking.
You're you write just like you talk.
(25:01):
And I said, Oh yes, I did. That's that is a good editor
because the key to a successful book is that your personality.
So he comes. Out.
And that all an editor does is make sure it's like that this is
in the right spot, or the grammar is right, or the order
of the story. But yeah, a lot of personality
(25:24):
comes out. You're a firecracker.
Yeah, I didn't. I ask, have you always been like
this? I said, I think I came out of
the womb like this. I was the only redhead in the
family. And my children used to say,
Mom, you had to be adopted because you don't look like
anybody in the family. You know, I was just reading
statistics. It's like like not even 1% of
(25:49):
the world is red hair and blue eyes.
It's very Yeah. In fact, when I was in Ireland I
expected to see a lot of red hats.
You do, but you don't. Yeah, I.
Didn't. But I did find out that my
grandmother, as she got older, her hair was dark but it wasn't
that. It didn't appear to me as a
(26:11):
child to be red, but my mother said no.
She had Auburn hair and as she got older it got dark and so did
mine. So I say that I get my hair
naturally refreshed every six weeks.
So it I didn't ever really turn Gray, but I it got dark and you
(26:32):
can tell as soon as I have it naturally refreshed the
complexion just pops. I am a redhead.
That's so funny when I when I was when I look at baby
pictures, I mean like super babypictures earlier than two.
My mother used to say I had Tahitian blonde.
I'm like, what the heck does that?
(26:53):
What did that mean? Mom, She goes, well, look at
your pictures. You were redhead.
I was a redhead baby like super dayglow red.
I don't know where nobody was gone by the time I was 2.
There's not a single picture that looks anywhere near that.
It's like, you sure you weren't doing something to that hair mom
that you like some postpartum because it doesn't look like
(27:18):
anybody else. Yeah, very funny.
So you're a natural redhead. Yeah.
And you, you are certainly a redhead.
Yeah, well, I got the Tell me. About those personality, that
redhead personality, because there was a distinct personality
type. I, I, I was born right on the
cusp Virgo and Leo, which I say is the perfect sun sign because
(27:41):
the, the, the Virgo side makes me a good businesswoman.
And I, I will admit that I, I took to business so quickly.
It just the first time I walked into the real estate company
that I wound up owning, I was athome.
I knew that was my place. Loved it, loved it, loved it.
(28:05):
But then the Leo comes out and Ijokingly say if there's not a
stage and a spotlight, I'll get a box with a flashlight.
But I will walk the edges of thejungle, check what's out there.
But I'm very loyal, always come back to my man.
(28:25):
Let's since you bought it, back to your man.
OK, so you meet Bob. You're out one of your first
nights out at the Country Club, and you have a first dance.
How long was it before you had that first dinner and those
dinners thereafter? When did you like, say, you
know, I'm going to keep stickingaround with this guy, I'm going
(28:48):
to try to keep him around and I'm going to stick around and
commit. I called my friends who
introduced us the next morning. I was so horrified that I was so
trying. I I that it's not how I usually
like to be displayed, but I called the next morning and
(29:09):
apologized. I said I am so embarrassed that
I was really drunk last night. And I said, please tell your
friend that that is not my normal behavior.
And and I and I have to tell youthat while we were dancing, I
tore the meniscus in my knee andI.
Fell. I fell right between his legs.
(29:31):
I'm looking up at these beautiful blue eyes.
I am laughing my ass off. And he said he looked down and
thought she really hit hard, 'cause he hurt me.
And he said, a woman who can be laughing like that is my kind of
woman. And so when I called to
(29:53):
apologize the next day, I said, and please tell Roger that I
tore the meniscus in my left knee again because he had
already operated on the right knee for a torn meniscus.
So now I've got the left knee. And I said, but I stood all
night long, and it feels better.And so Roger called out, and I'm
(30:16):
sorry, Rodger, if you see this, and they're embarrassed.
But I heard him say, well, Bob'sswollen too, but it's not his
knee. I thought, well, he's got a good
sense of humor. I love.
It so my my friend Kathy says hewould like to have your contact
information. I said sure give it to him.
(30:38):
So he called me later that day and he said I met you last
night, you were drunk, I'd like to meet you today while you're
sober. So he came over that evening, we
sat on the porch, he had a glassof wine.
I didn't have anything to drink.And we talked for probably 2
hours. And he said we really just
(31:01):
shared what we expected in life.He had been single for 40 years.
So my first question was, so what's wrong with you?
If nobody wanted you, what's wrong with?
You that's a good opening question and that's a question
that you probably need to be 80 years old or so to really get
right to the heart of the issue.Yeah, I think he just.
(31:23):
He says to me he just never fellin love.
He had been married two different times and he said the
first time that he was they weregood friends, but he said we we
never fell in love. And he said the second marriage
he married a beautiful model andI can see it because he's
beautiful. And he said she didn't realize.
(31:46):
When you start, when you get married, you stop dating.
So I. I thought that was a nice way of
putting it and and then he was just single for so long, he
said. I just never felt I I wanted to
marry anybody I dated and he haddated.
But anyway. And not to put you on the spot,
(32:07):
but I'm going to because this ismy podcast.
And you can do whatever you want.
What did he tell you he was looking for?
He said. I just never thought I would
find someone I would want to spend the rest of my life with,
and he said I prayed I would find someone, he said I read
(32:28):
books on what to do, how to findsomeone, and it just didn't
happen, He said. I've dated beautifully smart
women but never wanted to marry them.
And at that point I think I saidsomething like, well, if you're
looking for marriage, you're at the wrong door because I don't
(32:50):
want to ever get married again. It's just too complicated.
And at this age, I don't need tobe married, but I do want a
partner. And he said I'm OK with that.
And we realized we had so much in common.
We really did want the same things.
We wanted a partner, we wanted to be able to travel together.
(33:13):
We wanted to be loyal to one another.
I mean, if he had told me, well,I'm signed into one of those
online dating apps, I would havesaid, you know what?
I think you've had enough wine. You can go ahead and leave now,
but that's not my thing. But we wanted the same things.
He had never had children. I said, well, I have lots of
(33:35):
children, lots of grandchildren,so you're going to be immersed
in a big family. And he said, I'm open to it.
I'm, I'm willing. And he has been most gracious
about that. Yeah.
If you were advising a younger person or another person on what
(34:03):
to expect or how to approach life after the death of a long
time partner, what would you sayto them?
You have to be open. You have to be confident that
you've got your eggs all in yournest and you know where they are
(34:29):
and you plan well for the future.
What I loved about Bob and I is that we discussed everything and
it was agreed that. I mean, one of the first things
(34:49):
I said is I don't want to be your mother.
I've already raised my share of husbands.
I want you to be able to stand on your own.
You take care of your money, I'll take care of mine.
And we come together mutually. And I would say that he has done
(35:12):
a splendid job. Sometimes we share, sometimes he
says I want to take care of thisand that's good.
And sometimes I say I want to take care of it.
I want to treat you. So I think we've got a real good
chance. And but what I would, getting
back to your question, what I would tell another woman or man
(35:39):
is. Because I do think this advice
is universal. It is.
I think everybody needs to be very clear and upfront.
If anything, I'm probably too upfront because I I don't want
any surprises. Don't come to me in six months
(36:02):
and said, well, you never told me about this.
And I think that we poured our hearts out to each other.
He did ask, could could I see you later this week?
And I said, I would love to. So we had dinner at least three
times that week. And but we just talked and we
(36:27):
were incredibly open about what we expected in a relationship.
You know, that is such an interesting theme that I have
heard from people who have had second relationships or third or
fourth in older life that are successful and happy with them
(36:50):
because there are people that gointo those subsequent
relationships and they're not happy and they, and then they're
struggling with I jumped. I, you know, it was a rebound.
I don't know why I did this. Now I've got it.
You know, I've been through thisbefore.
I should have stayed single. They're in this other state of
frustration. And the biggest thing I think it
(37:12):
is, is it's that lack of honesty, that lack of
willingness to put out whatever you want to say on the table.
I mean, I remember looking at mymother saying, wow, you really
discussed that. She was, what do I have to lose
by discussing that? She goes, I have a lot to lose
if I don't get it out there. And if he doesn't get it out
there because I'm not doing that, she was.
I don't need that at this point in my life.
(37:34):
No, I totally agree with her. I think.
I think that it was kind of a shock to Bob that I was as open
and honest as I was. And I've, I've told a couple of
friends I, I thought I'd chased him away because I was so blunt
and so open about what I expected.
(38:01):
You know, what have you got to lose?
And and that way they can never say, well, you never told me,
right? Oh yes, I told you, you know.
And it goes in all areas of lifein relationships because I I
swear, I thought I was going to choke and it still is probably
going to make me buckle with laughter repeating this.
But when I'm sitting at a breakfast table in my mother's
(38:24):
kitchen with her and you know, her now husband at the time, and
she says, you know, the first time he kissed me, I told him
that's not how you kiss a woman.I'm like OK, this is not the
conversation I ever thought I was going to be having with mine
now 84 year old mother. I love it.
(38:48):
I love. It and he's like yeah, she told
me I was slop A sloppy kisser and I had to improve if I was
ever going to get her lips againI.
Totally agree with her, I was a great kisser.
It's very important. It's.
Very important. It's I say he's a great hugger.
(39:08):
Oh, that's very important. Great hugger and I so appreciate
him. Yeah, we're having fun.
And someone the other day a girlfriend was asking me, she's
a little younger than me and sheasked, you know, I like sex at
this age. I said well all the parts still
(39:29):
work. That was another one, my mother
calling me up and saying, Diane,two things I want to talk to you
about and thought, mom, you know, this is hilarious.
One was Bernie told me I need new bras.
I'm like, Oh yeah, She goes, yeah, she said.
(39:49):
The bra I'm wearing is a noseeumand he wants to see them.
That's cute. That's cute.
But yeah, alive and well at any age.
It's true and I. Gus.
Never thought about it. The widow's fire.
(40:10):
Yes, yes. And it's not just as I said
earlier, the book is not just for women.
I've actually had men call me and say thank you for writing
this. I identify with what you're
saying. So it happens to men, too, but
it's a natural. I don't know whether it's a part
of the mourning process to want to be loved again, to want to be
(40:35):
held again, to want to have those emotions again.
One of my daughter's said after I met Bob, she said, mom, you're
like a teenager. And I said I know.
That's what I we all said about my mother.
It was like, wait a second, we have no idea where she is
anymore. She's out gallivanting using her
(40:56):
word. Are you going to go
gallivanting? I'm like, well, mom, you're
doing a lot of gallivanting. We can't find you anywhere.
Yeah. Well, I I get that too.
And I think, I think at different phases in life,
there's probably people that area little jealous that, wait a
second, she's having a good time.
But yes, one of my daughter's said, Mom, I, I want you by
(41:20):
yourself. I, I don't want to share you
with him. And I'm going.
She's married and has her own children.
She, you know, that's time to grow up.
But I think we all do want someone special in our lives.
(41:41):
You know, something you said that I think is timeless advice.
I just recently read that a new study, you know, marriage had
gone out of favor for a lot of years.
You know, really even partnerships, you know, kind of
like we're no, I'm going to be independent.
I'm going to do this all on my own, da, da, da, da.
And a new study just said younger people are getting
(42:04):
married again at higher rates than in the past.
Like I think it's 10 or 15 yearsand a lot in your book candor
discussing everything. I think that is timeless advice
for someone at any stage of life.
Yes, yes, yes. I don't think we were meant to
(42:28):
be alone. It's it's wonderful having
someone who cares for you. And when you heard, they heard.
I have been so blessed. I certainly didn't see it coming
(42:52):
for Bob. I mean, I can, I can remember
thinking I would be alone for the rest of my life.
I am so fortunate to have had someone of such quality meet me
and say that he would like to spend the rest of his life with
me. Mm hmm.
(43:14):
He took me to meet his 102 year old mother and.
I loved reading that. I loved it.
I loved it that when he told me that he wanted to fly me to
Nebraska and meet his mother. And I said now let me get this
straight, Your mother at the time she was 101.
(43:37):
I said you want or your mother wants her 80 year old son to fly
his 80 year old girlfriend for her approval?
And he said, well, yes. And then he tells me now you
need to turn the dress down. She's she is a good lady from
(43:59):
Nebraska. She lives in Iowa.
And he said, you know, don't be too flashy because I tend to,
you know, have the red hair and the, you know, jewelry and what
have you. And then I thought to myself,
you know what? She's either going to like me or
not, and I've got to be me. Well, the lady loved my black
(44:23):
leather pants and it was called weather, so I wore a mink coat.
And he had said, you know, don'twear the mink coat.
I said it's the only coat I have.
I live in Florida. I don't wear a lot of coats, But
when we travel to New York or wherever it was, usually in the
winter time, I wore my mink coat.
(44:46):
Well, she loved it all. She loved it all.
She loved my earrings. She loved my mink coat.
She loved my leather pants so cute, just a vibrant,
intelligent, neat lady. 102 now we just talked to her this
morning. She said I feel tired today, I
feel tired today. Her daughter said the cutest
(45:09):
thing the other day. She said mother is finally
showing her age and we first I want to be like that.
Yeah, I think you are. She told.
She told me you don't look like you're 80.
You don't, I said. You don't look like you're 100.
(45:33):
So time goes too fast during these podcasts, but one of the
themes I think we covered is life is for the living.
Yes. What would be your most
important take away that you would like besides buy my book
which I highly recommend to everyone at every stage and
(45:54):
phase? If you can't afford it, I'll
give it to you. But what would be your sages
recommendation for someone who has gone through the caregiving
process, has gone through that grieving, is now saying what do
I want my remaining years to look like?
(46:22):
Just burst forth with the best you've got, whether it's.
I never expected to write a book, but isn't it fun?
Here I am 80, almost 2 years oldand.
(46:42):
About to become an Internet sensation when this podcast goes
viral. I hope so, but the main thing is
that I hope I help somebody and that is almost daily happening
where someone texts me and says thank you.
(47:03):
But life isn't over just becauseyour mate died.
And if you've had a wonderful mate, as I did, they encourage
you to keep living and when you stop, you're dead.
So keep living. And there's so much out there,
(47:27):
whether it's volunteer work, whether it's deciding I'm going
to write that novel that I've always thought about.
And I've had a couple of friendstell me that, you know, I've
always wanted to write a book, and now you've given me courage
to do it. Go for it, Go for it.
And if Mr. Charming comes your way, grab him and hug him and go
(47:51):
for it. I just, I want to continue
living. I don't want to stop.
I've always got a project going and I think everybody should
have a project, whether it's just taking a trip, writing a
book, having a new love affair. Do it, enjoy it, squeeze the
(48:14):
goody out of the life. Oh, that's really good advice.
What a show closer. Oh my gosh, Diane, what a
pleasure having you. You are you're you're beautiful
inside and out. Truly a delightful being, my.
Priest actually told me that, sothat's a.
Pretty good validation. There you go.
(48:35):
My guest today has been Diane Pykhyler.
She is the author of this book, A Widow's Fire that you can pick
up. There's going to be all kinds of
links below that. You can just click the link and
go right to her by the book pagebecause I really recommend you
do buy it for yourself, for anyone you know who's caregiving
for someone else, for any male or female widow or widower, or
(49:00):
just plain anyone even thinking about entering a serious
relationship. Because there's a lot of wisdom
in these pages about love and truly that meaning of for better
or for worse, and everything else in between.
Thank you very much, Diane, for being my guest.
It's been my pleasure. Thank you everybody.
This is the Silver Disobedience Perception Dynamics podcast.
(49:24):
I'm Diane Grisell, the host, andwe have been recording in
Manhattan Center, which is a phenomenal place.
I highly recommend you check outthe Manhattan Center website so
you can see all the things that can happen here from concerts to
TV shows being recorded to movies getting filmed to
soundtracks recorded. There was an orchestra in here
(49:47):
recently again getting recorded and it's so it's always
phenomenal things happening hereand I'm truly honored to be
sitting in TV too. Thank you.
Please subscribe, see you soon.
Hi. Did you know that one in four
American adults are in some formof a caregiving role?
And many of those adults are caring for their spouses, But
what happens when that caregiving ends in loss for that
caregiver? A full range of emotions come
(00:24):
into play, and one of them, verysadly, is often guilt.
And where's that guilt come from?
Society, friends, neighbors, children.
All who maybe mean well but havetheir own ideas in their head
about when it's OK for you to start living your life again,
(00:45):
dating, maybe getting out just plain smiling more.
Today we have a really wonderfulguest Who shared a very intimate
story. Her name is Diane Pike Heiler.
Her book is a widow's Fire, and in this book, in a combination
(01:07):
of what I would call mini essays, dated, exploring her
journey along with some really heartfelt poetry, she tells her
story of going from caregiver towhat that's like after a loss
with family and children and friends and everyone else into
(01:28):
finding love again after all of that.
So welcome, Diane. So nice to be here.
Oh my gosh, it is a pleasure to have you because we're going to
be talking about a topic that istruly near and dear to me.
My parents were married 50 yearswhen my father died.
Everyone had all their opinions on my mother, who was a
(01:51):
firecracker at 80 years old. And I really kept saying, mom,
we love dad, but you got to get out and live.
You have a lot of living in you.And I'll admit, ultimately she
did. And I'm curious what inspired
you to tell this story? First of all, my husband laid
(02:14):
out the road map. He had lost his wife after a
long, very happy marriage. She died of ovarian cancer.
I met him two months after she was gone.
And I was shocked. On the second day I said, well,
how long has your wife been gone?
He said two months. And I went, Oh my gosh, I do not
(02:38):
want to be the one who helps himthrough this morning period.
And I almost walked away from him.
And yet he said no. He said, I've been mourning for
two years. She was dying for two years.
And I know I have to go forward in my life.
(02:58):
Yeah. When he died, just before he
died, he related this story to me again.
And he said you will need to find another.
And I said, absolutely not. I've had a great marriage.
I do not need another man in my life.
I'm very comfortable being alone.
Well, little did I know that after two months of not having a
(03:23):
hug, not having someone say, golly, it's good to have you in
my life, I realized I missed that I wanted to have another
partner. It was shocking.
It was shocking to me because I thought I have always been so
capable. I really don't need another man.
(03:45):
And I, I can even remember saying to, to al my, my former
husband, I don't need you, I want you.
Uh huh. Well, when I was by myself,
totally by myself and 81 years old, well 80 and then 81, I
(04:06):
thought I don't need a man, but I definitely want a man in my
life. And, and I had all the emotions
of widow's fire, which is a. What is Widow's Fire?
This. I mean, it's a captivating name
for your book. How do you define a widow's
(04:26):
fire? Well, I started having these
sexual feelings and and that wasshocking because I had not had
those feelings in a long, long time.
My husband was dying for two years years.
He'd had prostate cancer before that.
That part of our life was no longer.
(04:46):
And I was OK with that. I we had great conversation.
We had a very active social life.
We had everything I felt we needed.
But after he was gone, I was alone, mourning terribly, and I
had all these emotions. I wanted a hug so badly.
(05:09):
Mm hmm. I wanted a man to talk to.
I had lots of girlfriends, but Iwanted a man Mm hmm to talk to.
I I needed that part of my life back and I I stayed at home.
I refused to go out, which I I know probably was not makes it.
(05:30):
Difficult to meet someone. That's right.
And the only person I really spend any time with was my
sister who had been a widow for 11 years and she would come up
and visit me. But if if girlfriends wanted to
come over, I just said I just can't do it.
I, I just am not ready yet. But then one of my husband's
(05:52):
really good close friends calledme one day and literally said,
get out of the damn house. This is not what Hal wanted for
you. You need to get out and live
your life. So my sister said come on, let's
go to the Country Club. And I didn't want to go, but I I
(06:12):
knew I needed to and I went. I had two vodka and tonics,
which is a lot for me. And I was feeling no pain.
I was on the dance floor with mysister dancing like an idiot and
no. Like a woman having fun.
Here's a big difference. So, friends, you're.
(06:33):
Too elegant. I can't imagine you ever being
an idiot. My my good friends Roger and
Cathy Brainerd. He's an orthopedic surgeon from
Tampa, actually from Nebraska. Tapped me on this.
Yes. Tapped me on the shoulder and
said, we want you to meet our dear friend from 55 years ago
(06:54):
from Med school. And I turned around and shook
this guy's hand, said hi, Bob, let's dance.
And we've been dancing ever since.
Oh my gosh, I love this. I love this love story because
it's a love story all the way through.
It is. And why I say that is, I
remember it. You said something that really
(07:18):
hit me when my mother and when my father died.
My mother had taken care of my father for several years because
he had congestive heart failure.So she had a lot of time during
that and she ultimately had two marriages after my father died
at 80. The first one she met someone in
(07:39):
the community where she was living.
And I mean, she felt mad. They felt were madly in love.
It was, you know, the, the tourist brochures were all over
the house where they were going to live, how they were going to
change their life. I'm like, wow, if this is 82, I
can't wait. You know, I'm looking forward to
this experience in my life. This is just wild how she was
(08:01):
reinvigorated. You know, the first person she'd
ever been with was my father. So now she's got her second
Prince Charming. And when he proposed, he handed
her a piece of paper. And he said, you know, I went to
the doctor and here's my medicalresults.
I am in great health. I don't want you to think I need
you to care for me. Because he had cared for his
wife for 10 years and he was dead five months to the day of
(08:27):
their honeymoon from invasive cancer.
That I don't know if the doctor knew or not.
Well, my mother was devastated. And I, I mean, just because that
truly was a shock. There was no preparation for
that. There was no caregiving.
It was just a 123. I mean, I think it was 2 weeks
to the, you know, from the time they knew what it was and he was
(08:48):
dead and then long time and recovery.
So now she's like 85 and there'sa man she sees in church every
day who comes up to her the weekbefore Valentine's Day and says,
would you like to go on a date on Valentine's Day?
And they were married six monthslater on Valentine's Day.
(09:09):
And we're married for almost 14 years before my mother just died
and and her husband was or is he's still a wonderful guy and
with from a great family, eight years younger than her was eight
years younger than her. But we never thought she would
be the one who went first, even though that was the case.
So it was a very interesting experience and all the emotions
(09:32):
in the family. What was it like for, I don't
know if I don't want to go too personal, If you don't want to
talk about family reaction, whatwas a family reaction or friends
when you started to date? You said some people were saying
they wanted to get out, but there's a difference between
(09:52):
Diane, we want you to get out versus Diane you're dating.
Well, there's a big difference there.
I had some interesting comments,my sister said.
I cannot believe it. I take you out the first time
after. And you made Prince Charming.
She said I have been a widow for11 years.
Thank you very much. She's happy for me, very happy
(10:18):
for me, my friends, very supportive.
I had texted my children, my four children and my 2 stepsons
because I wanted to tell them before any friends got to him
and said, well I'm glad your mother's dating.
I think that would have really upset them.
(10:41):
So I thought the smart thing to do was to text him.
I'm a big texter, which is funnyin itself because for years I
said I don't text and, and I, I finally one of the grandsons was
in college and kept texting me and I kept responding, I do not
text. And then finally after a while I
said, OK, OK, I text now and I've been text from, but I
(11:08):
texted everybody and I said, I've met a lovely man.
I kind of gave some background that he was a friend of friends
that have been friends of mine for a long time.
So I sort of gave them a little short bio that this is a nice
man and I said I would like to go to dinner with him.
(11:31):
Well, I really got. There was some backflow there.
My son was good. Ironic, isn't?
It it is 2 years old and you're looking, you have to get
permission to go for dinner. And now they're questioning, you
know, well, you know, he doesn'twant your money, does he?
(11:52):
You know, and no, he has his own.
So it's really funny. I, they're doing a reverse of
what I did when they started to date.
I mean, I really, my, my therapist said Diane, She said
you're a smart woman, go for it.She said, do you realize how
(12:13):
many women out there would love to be in your shoes?
And she met, has met him and shesaid you are so fortunate.
Mm hmm. Go for it.
But his sons, my husband's sons,really took it well.
They the response from his olderson was had you not met my dad
(12:37):
two months after my mother died,he would not have had the 30
beautiful years he's had with you.
My response was, Jeff, that warms my heart.
So both. Oh, you just gave me goosebumps.
Yeah. Both.
Both boys had gone through it with their mother.
They had a hard time adjusting to me coming on the scene so
(12:59):
soon after their mother died. Who?
I did not know her, but she was a very loving mother.
And it was hard on them to see their father with with another
woman. But he knew what he needed to do
and and he did it. So he did give me the road map.
My children are having a rough time.
(13:20):
But they also lost their naturalfather about four months before
Al died. So they had a double whammy and
I honestly, the thing I feel themost guilty about is I was not
there for them to grieve. But truly, Diane, I was grieving
(13:42):
so deeply. I had never gone through
anything so painful. Mm hmm.
I could only take care of me. Yes.
I just couldn't. And and sadly enough, they had
their own lives. They they had their own husbands
and wives and children. I was alone.
(14:05):
I had my 2 Yorkshire Terriers. That was it.
So the grieving was different for me than it was for them, and
they had never seen me so weak. Stages of grief are so different
at different times of life basedon responsibilities and roles.
It's like when my father died a month after September 11th.
(14:28):
I couldn't stop crying and I wasnot particularly close with my
father. I appreciated my father but I
could not stop crying. It was weeks and weeks.
It just little things would and I think it was even though we
knew he was dying, we had seen him a month before.
We knew he wasn't in good shape.But it's like you just I did
(14:49):
just didn't expect it. And I had a one year old child,
you know, so I'm overwhelmed there and working full time.
Yet when my mother died two years ago, who I spent two years
with prior to the time she died,more time with her than I had
spent my entire life, except maybe in my, you know, preschool
(15:11):
years, you know, infant to preschool years.
I cried a little. But my crying was I had done the
caregiving I had done. We had had so many good
conversations about death. And she was a very religious
person and very also spiritual, you know, would send you notes
from Eckhart Tolle or whoever, you know, like Diane, you need
(15:34):
to read this one. You know, she was way out of her
time and all that stuff, but thedifferent set of emotions where
I observe with my brothers and sisters or my mother's kind of
second family from her, who was her husband, their reactions to
her death, where everybody reacts differently.
(15:58):
Absolutely. You know, grief is grief is so
personal, but it's also why I ama huge advocate of never telling
someone how to handle it, you know, or how to recover from it
or how to move on. You cannot judge.
No, because it is so different from everybody.
(16:19):
Yeah, and I I have to chuckle when I have girlfriends and some
of my daughters have said I would never get married again.
You just don't. Know, you know what I say,
there's no atheists in foxholes.You know when you're getting
shot at, when you're the one in pain, when you're the one
(16:39):
dealing with something and someone says, well, I would
never. Yeah, you're not the one who's.
Dealing with it. No, I I'm sure that I've said
the same thing. I used to be judgmental.
I mean, I can remember someone telling me that one of their
good friends had lost her husband and she was already
dating. And I can remember so clearly
saying, Oh my goodness. Oh, she should wait.
(17:01):
She should wait. Well, I didn't even know the
woman. And here I was.
I was judging her based on nothing that I knew when, when
Al died. This is how unrealistic I was
because we had talked about everything we had and everything
I thought I knew, everything about dying and moving forward.
(17:26):
After he died, I went up to my home in North Carolina.
I wanted to be alone. And I said, OK, I'll give myself
two weeks and I'm going to just really mourn the hell out of
this and then I'm going to be OKbecause that's how I've dealt
with my whole life. Oh yeah, we got to get this show
on the road. I know I can't waste any time
(17:49):
here and that just didn't happen.
It just you just don't put a limit on morning.
Yeah, I still more and there's you.
You, you don't ever get over it.You just learn to live with it
and accept it and know that he'sin a better place.
(18:09):
Well, you know, one of the things I'm so you've made such a
good point that I am so gratefulfor that.
My mother, you know, there were five of us on our side and there
were six kids on my mother's third husband.
I guess you would have to say, yeah, my father.
And then so we'd get together with them and I spent a lot of
(18:33):
time once they got married and, you know, we'd go visit because
our kids were little, so. And take them to Florida, go
visit Manny for the week kind ofthing.
But one of the things that fascinated me was, you know,
they were both very comfortable with talking about Bernie's
wife, Pauline, or my mother's husband, my father, Vince.
(18:54):
And then they be like, yeah, Vince would have liked this or,
oh, Pauline did this or that. It was almost like it was a
foursome, even though in in conversations it was not that
this could not be discussed. We had to deny this part of that
this life existed, which is one of the things I get a kick out
(19:16):
of Bob, you know, embracing and,you know, being being in this
supportive to this book and because it's an acknowledgement
of a big part of your life and who you are.
And but it doesn't stop. It keeps going.
It just. A lot of men, when they marry
(19:37):
you, they want to believe that your life just began.
I've been in a situation like that before where my life just
didn't begin. I I had a full life before I
married Al. But he liked to think that.
This is where we're starting he.Brought me into the world.
(19:58):
Bob is not doing that. And I so appreciate now that
we're in New York City. We went to one of my favorite
restaurants last night and Bob through the whole meal kept
saying oh this is delicious and he certainly enjoys good
restaurants and has been to manygood restaurants through the
(20:19):
years. Very well travelled and finally
I said does it bother you that Itold you that this has been for
over 30 years my go to with Al and he said not at all.
He said I'm giving 30 years to check out and make sure it was
good food. That's how that's how
(20:39):
comfortable he is with himself and I appreciate that.
That's an interesting point. Self comfort.
Oh, and how, yeah, how importantthat is in you, in Bob as a new
(21:00):
partner, in what you bring to your new relationship.
What do you have to say about that?
How does where does that self comfort come from do you think?
I think it comes from the inner person.
He's had many years. I mean, he's 4-4 or five months
(21:22):
older than me. He's 82.
I'll be 82 next month. You know, if you don't learn
something about yourself in 80 years, you're already lost.
I mean, there is no no helping that person.
But we all have to grow and learn who we are and love
(21:45):
ourselves and become a confidentperson within.
And when you have that, you're beautiful, and so is life.
You know, that's, that's a fun answer because it reminded me of
when my mother would get a little Flack from people.
And she did get a lot of Flack from girlfriends who wanted to
(22:07):
keep her, you know, in the, you know, well, the girls do this,
the girls do that. And she was still doing that,
but she was having a really goodtime with Bernie.
And you know, when she said, youknow, we're getting married?
And I was like, well, that's I love it, Mom, I think this is
(22:28):
really cool. She was, she was.
Well, not everyone does. And I'm like, mom, you're you're
a tough cookie. You've been through a lot.
And she goes, you know what? She goes, you know what I tell
them she gets real feisty. She she's a tiny little thing.
She goes, I tell him, if I don'tknow myself at 82 and what I
want, I'm never going to know myself.
(22:49):
So what difference does it make?That's true.
Well, I had someone ask me one day.
I'm really surprised that you opened up so much in your book,
Diane, she said. You don't normally tell such
private things about yourself. And my response was well, at 80
years old, what the hell, I might as well tell it.
(23:10):
You know, and what you do tell is it's I found your book
cathartic. I don't, I'm not sure why, so
I'm curious if other people havesaid that to you because I have
not lost a spouse. Men and women have said it.
Yeah. And I don't think you need to
(23:32):
have law. I don't think this is, although
it's called a widow's fire. I don't think you have to be a
widow to understand the range ora widower because I do think
this would be great for men or women to read.
And almost at any point because you tackle caregiving, loving
(23:53):
the changes that come through life, the the plethora of
emotions that you know, the UPS,the downs, the all arounds, the
numbness, you know, the feeling like you have no emotions.
You've got it all covered. And I love that you did it as
(24:14):
like you're like you're reading your diary, but at the same time
you get these poems that bring this other dimension to the
book. Well, I do have a crazy brain.
It well, it works. It works.
I'm a multitasker and I can't stay on anyone subject too long
(24:39):
because I I spread off into different areas.
But having a good editor was fantastic.
And my children have all said, mom, we figured that the editor
was probably writing the book for you.
But once they read the book, they said we hear you talking.
You're you write just like you talk.
(25:01):
And I said, Oh yes, I did. That's that is a good editor
because the key to a successful book is that your personality.
So he comes. Out.
And that all an editor does is make sure it's like that this is
in the right spot, or the grammar is right, or the order
of the story. But yeah, a lot of personality
(25:24):
comes out. You're a firecracker.
Yeah, I didn't. I ask, have you always been like
this? I said, I think I came out of
the womb like this. I was the only redhead in the
family. And my children used to say,
Mom, you had to be adopted because you don't look like
anybody in the family. You know, I was just reading
statistics. It's like like not even 1% of
(25:49):
the world is red hair and blue eyes.
It's very Yeah. In fact, when I was in Ireland I
expected to see a lot of red hats.
You do, but you don't. Yeah, I.
Didn't. But I did find out that my
grandmother, as she got older, her hair was dark but it wasn't
that. It didn't appear to me as a
(26:11):
child to be red, but my mother said no.
She had Auburn hair and as she got older it got dark and so did
mine. So I say that I get my hair
naturally refreshed every six weeks.
So it I didn't ever really turn Gray, but I it got dark and you
(26:32):
can tell as soon as I have it naturally refreshed the
complexion just pops. I am a redhead.
That's so funny when I when I was when I look at baby
pictures, I mean like super babypictures earlier than two.
My mother used to say I had Tahitian blonde.
I'm like, what the heck does that?
(26:53):
What did that mean? Mom, She goes, well, look at
your pictures. You were redhead.
I was a redhead baby like super dayglow red.
I don't know where nobody was gone by the time I was 2.
There's not a single picture that looks anywhere near that.
It's like, you sure you weren't doing something to that hair mom
that you like some postpartum because it doesn't look like
(27:18):
anybody else. Yeah, very funny.
So you're a natural redhead. Yeah.
And you, you are certainly a redhead.
Yeah, well, I got the Tell me. About those personality, that
redhead personality, because there was a distinct personality
type. I, I, I was born right on the
cusp Virgo and Leo, which I say is the perfect sun sign because
(27:41):
the, the, the Virgo side makes me a good businesswoman.
And I, I will admit that I, I took to business so quickly.
It just the first time I walked into the real estate company
that I wound up owning, I was athome.
I knew that was my place. Loved it, loved it, loved it.
(28:05):
But then the Leo comes out and Ijokingly say if there's not a
stage and a spotlight, I'll get a box with a flashlight.
But I will walk the edges of thejungle, check what's out there.
But I'm very loyal, always come back to my man.
(28:25):
Let's since you bought it, back to your man.
OK, so you meet Bob. You're out one of your first
nights out at the Country Club, and you have a first dance.
How long was it before you had that first dinner and those
dinners thereafter? When did you like, say, you
know, I'm going to keep stickingaround with this guy, I'm going
(28:48):
to try to keep him around and I'm going to stick around and
commit. I called my friends who
introduced us the next morning. I was so horrified that I was so
trying. I I that it's not how I usually
like to be displayed, but I called the next morning and
(29:09):
apologized. I said I am so embarrassed that
I was really drunk last night. And I said, please tell your
friend that that is not my normal behavior.
And and I and I have to tell youthat while we were dancing, I
tore the meniscus in my knee andI.
Fell. I fell right between his legs.
(29:31):
I'm looking up at these beautiful blue eyes.
I am laughing my ass off. And he said he looked down and
thought she really hit hard, 'cause he hurt me.
And he said, a woman who can be laughing like that is my kind of
woman. And so when I called to
(29:53):
apologize the next day, I said, and please tell Roger that I
tore the meniscus in my left knee again because he had
already operated on the right knee for a torn meniscus.
So now I've got the left knee. And I said, but I stood all
night long, and it feels better.And so Roger called out, and I'm
(30:16):
sorry, Rodger, if you see this, and they're embarrassed.
But I heard him say, well, Bob'sswollen too, but it's not his
knee. I thought, well, he's got a good
sense of humor. I love.
It so my my friend Kathy says hewould like to have your contact
information. I said sure give it to him.
(30:38):
So he called me later that day and he said I met you last
night, you were drunk, I'd like to meet you today while you're
sober. So he came over that evening, we
sat on the porch, he had a glassof wine.
I didn't have anything to drink.And we talked for probably 2
hours. And he said we really just
(31:01):
shared what we expected in life.He had been single for 40 years.
So my first question was, so what's wrong with you?
If nobody wanted you, what's wrong with?
You that's a good opening question and that's a question
that you probably need to be 80 years old or so to really get
right to the heart of the issue.Yeah, I think he just.
(31:23):
He says to me he just never fellin love.
He had been married two different times and he said the
first time that he was they weregood friends, but he said we we
never fell in love. And he said the second marriage
he married a beautiful model andI can see it because he's
beautiful. And he said she didn't realize.
(31:46):
When you start, when you get married, you stop dating.
So I. I thought that was a nice way of
putting it and and then he was just single for so long, he
said. I just never felt I I wanted to
marry anybody I dated and he haddated.
But anyway. And not to put you on the spot,
(32:07):
but I'm going to because this ismy podcast.
And you can do whatever you want.
What did he tell you he was looking for?
He said. I just never thought I would
find someone I would want to spend the rest of my life with,
and he said I prayed I would find someone, he said I read
(32:28):
books on what to do, how to findsomeone, and it just didn't
happen, He said. I've dated beautifully smart
women but never wanted to marry them.
And at that point I think I saidsomething like, well, if you're
looking for marriage, you're at the wrong door because I don't
(32:50):
want to ever get married again. It's just too complicated.
And at this age, I don't need tobe married, but I do want a
partner. And he said I'm OK with that.
And we realized we had so much in common.
We really did want the same things.
We wanted a partner, we wanted to be able to travel together.
(33:13):
We wanted to be loyal to one another.
I mean, if he had told me, well,I'm signed into one of those
online dating apps, I would havesaid, you know what?
I think you've had enough wine. You can go ahead and leave now,
but that's not my thing. But we wanted the same things.
He had never had children. I said, well, I have lots of
(33:35):
children, lots of grandchildren,so you're going to be immersed
in a big family. And he said, I'm open to it.
I'm, I'm willing. And he has been most gracious
about that. Yeah.
If you were advising a younger person or another person on what
(34:03):
to expect or how to approach life after the death of a long
time partner, what would you sayto them?
You have to be open. You have to be confident that
you've got your eggs all in yournest and you know where they are
(34:29):
and you plan well for the future.
What I loved about Bob and I is that we discussed everything and
it was agreed that. I mean, one of the first things
(34:49):
I said is I don't want to be your mother.
I've already raised my share of husbands.
I want you to be able to stand on your own.
You take care of your money, I'll take care of mine.
And we come together mutually. And I would say that he has done
(35:12):
a splendid job. Sometimes we share, sometimes he
says I want to take care of thisand that's good.
And sometimes I say I want to take care of it.
I want to treat you. So I think we've got a real good
chance. And but what I would, getting
back to your question, what I would tell another woman or man
(35:39):
is. Because I do think this advice
is universal. It is.
I think everybody needs to be very clear and upfront.
If anything, I'm probably too upfront because I I don't want
any surprises. Don't come to me in six months
(36:02):
and said, well, you never told me about this.
And I think that we poured our hearts out to each other.
He did ask, could could I see you later this week?
And I said, I would love to. So we had dinner at least three
times that week. And but we just talked and we
(36:27):
were incredibly open about what we expected in a relationship.
You know, that is such an interesting theme that I have
heard from people who have had second relationships or third or
fourth in older life that are successful and happy with them
(36:50):
because there are people that gointo those subsequent
relationships and they're not happy and they, and then they're
struggling with I jumped. I, you know, it was a rebound.
I don't know why I did this. Now I've got it.
You know, I've been through thisbefore.
I should have stayed single. They're in this other state of
frustration. And the biggest thing I think it
(37:12):
is, is it's that lack of honesty, that lack of
willingness to put out whatever you want to say on the table.
I mean, I remember looking at mymother saying, wow, you really
discussed that. She was, what do I have to lose
by discussing that? She goes, I have a lot to lose
if I don't get it out there. And if he doesn't get it out
there because I'm not doing that, she was.
I don't need that at this point in my life.
(37:34):
No, I totally agree with her. I think.
I think that it was kind of a shock to Bob that I was as open
and honest as I was. And I've, I've told a couple of
friends I, I thought I'd chased him away because I was so blunt
and so open about what I expected.
(38:01):
You know, what have you got to lose?
And and that way they can never say, well, you never told me,
right? Oh yes, I told you, you know.
And it goes in all areas of lifein relationships because I I
swear, I thought I was going to choke and it still is probably
going to make me buckle with laughter repeating this.
But when I'm sitting at a breakfast table in my mother's
(38:24):
kitchen with her and you know, her now husband at the time, and
she says, you know, the first time he kissed me, I told him
that's not how you kiss a woman.I'm like OK, this is not the
conversation I ever thought I was going to be having with mine
now 84 year old mother. I love it.
(38:48):
I love. It and he's like yeah, she told
me I was slop A sloppy kisser and I had to improve if I was
ever going to get her lips againI.
Totally agree with her, I was a great kisser.
It's very important. It's.
Very important. It's I say he's a great hugger.
(39:08):
Oh, that's very important. Great hugger and I so appreciate
him. Yeah, we're having fun.
And someone the other day a girlfriend was asking me, she's
a little younger than me and sheasked, you know, I like sex at
this age. I said well all the parts still
(39:29):
work. That was another one, my mother
calling me up and saying, Diane,two things I want to talk to you
about and thought, mom, you know, this is hilarious.
One was Bernie told me I need new bras.
I'm like, Oh yeah, She goes, yeah, she said.
(39:49):
The bra I'm wearing is a noseeumand he wants to see them.
That's cute. That's cute.
But yeah, alive and well at any age.
It's true and I. Gus.
Never thought about it. The widow's fire.
(40:10):
Yes, yes. And it's not just as I said
earlier, the book is not just for women.
I've actually had men call me and say thank you for writing
this. I identify with what you're
saying. So it happens to men, too, but
it's a natural. I don't know whether it's a part
of the mourning process to want to be loved again, to want to be
(40:35):
held again, to want to have those emotions again.
One of my daughter's said after I met Bob, she said, mom, you're
like a teenager. And I said I know.
That's what I we all said about my mother.
It was like, wait a second, we have no idea where she is
anymore. She's out gallivanting using her
(40:56):
word. Are you going to go
gallivanting? I'm like, well, mom, you're
doing a lot of gallivanting. We can't find you anywhere.
Yeah. Well, I I get that too.
And I think, I think at different phases in life,
there's probably people that area little jealous that, wait a
second, she's having a good time.
But yes, one of my daughter's said, Mom, I, I want you by
(41:20):
yourself. I, I don't want to share you
with him. And I'm going.
She's married and has her own children.
She, you know, that's time to grow up.
But I think we all do want someone special in our lives.
(41:41):
You know, something you said that I think is timeless advice.
I just recently read that a new study, you know, marriage had
gone out of favor for a lot of years.
You know, really even partnerships, you know, kind of
like we're no, I'm going to be independent.
I'm going to do this all on my own, da, da, da, da.
And a new study just said younger people are getting
(42:04):
married again at higher rates than in the past.
Like I think it's 10 or 15 yearsand a lot in your book candor
discussing everything. I think that is timeless advice
for someone at any stage of life.
Yes, yes, yes. I don't think we were meant to
(42:28):
be alone. It's it's wonderful having
someone who cares for you. And when you heard, they heard.
I have been so blessed. I certainly didn't see it coming
(42:52):
for Bob. I mean, I can, I can remember
thinking I would be alone for the rest of my life.
I am so fortunate to have had someone of such quality meet me
and say that he would like to spend the rest of his life with
me. Mm hmm.
(43:14):
He took me to meet his 102 year old mother and.
I loved reading that. I loved it.
I loved it that when he told me that he wanted to fly me to
Nebraska and meet his mother. And I said now let me get this
straight, Your mother at the time she was 101.
(43:37):
I said you want or your mother wants her 80 year old son to fly
his 80 year old girlfriend for her approval?
And he said, well, yes. And then he tells me now you
need to turn the dress down. She's she is a good lady from
(43:59):
Nebraska. She lives in Iowa.
And he said, you know, don't be too flashy because I tend to,
you know, have the red hair and the, you know, jewelry and what
have you. And then I thought to myself,
you know what? She's either going to like me or
not, and I've got to be me. Well, the lady loved my black
(44:23):
leather pants and it was called weather, so I wore a mink coat.
And he had said, you know, don'twear the mink coat.
I said it's the only coat I have.
I live in Florida. I don't wear a lot of coats, But
when we travel to New York or wherever it was, usually in the
winter time, I wore my mink coat.
(44:46):
Well, she loved it all. She loved it all.
She loved my earrings. She loved my mink coat.
She loved my leather pants so cute, just a vibrant,
intelligent, neat lady. 102 now we just talked to her this
morning. She said I feel tired today, I
feel tired today. Her daughter said the cutest
(45:09):
thing the other day. She said mother is finally
showing her age and we first I want to be like that.
Yeah, I think you are. She told.
She told me you don't look like you're 80.
You don't, I said. You don't look like you're 100.
(45:33):
So time goes too fast during these podcasts, but one of the
themes I think we covered is life is for the living.
Yes. What would be your most
important take away that you would like besides buy my book
which I highly recommend to everyone at every stage and
(45:54):
phase? If you can't afford it, I'll
give it to you. But what would be your sages
recommendation for someone who has gone through the caregiving
process, has gone through that grieving, is now saying what do
I want my remaining years to look like?
(46:22):
Just burst forth with the best you've got, whether it's.
I never expected to write a book, but isn't it fun?
Here I am 80, almost 2 years oldand.
(46:42):
About to become an Internet sensation when this podcast goes
viral. I hope so, but the main thing is
that I hope I help somebody and that is almost daily happening
where someone texts me and says thank you.
(47:03):
But life isn't over just becauseyour mate died.
And if you've had a wonderful mate, as I did, they encourage
you to keep living and when you stop, you're dead.
So keep living. And there's so much out there,
(47:27):
whether it's volunteer work, whether it's deciding I'm going
to write that novel that I've always thought about.
And I've had a couple of friendstell me that, you know, I've
always wanted to write a book, and now you've given me courage
to do it. Go for it, Go for it.
And if Mr. Charming comes your way, grab him and hug him and go
(47:51):
for it. I just, I want to continue
living. I don't want to stop.
I've always got a project going and I think everybody should
have a project, whether it's just taking a trip, writing a
book, having a new love affair. Do it, enjoy it, squeeze the
(48:14):
goody out of the life. Oh, that's really good advice.
What a show closer. Oh my gosh, Diane, what a
pleasure having you. You are you're you're beautiful
inside and out. Truly a delightful being, my.
Priest actually told me that, sothat's a.
Pretty good validation. There you go.
(48:35):
My guest today has been Diane Pykhyler.
She is the author of this book, A Widow's Fire that you can pick
up. There's going to be all kinds of
links below that. You can just click the link and
go right to her by the book pagebecause I really recommend you
do buy it for yourself, for anyone you know who's caregiving
for someone else, for any male or female widow or widower, or
(49:00):
just plain anyone even thinking about entering a serious
relationship. Because there's a lot of wisdom
in these pages about love and truly that meaning of for better
or for worse, and everything else in between.
Thank you very much, Diane, for being my guest.
It's been my pleasure. Thank you everybody.
This is the Silver Disobedience Perception Dynamics podcast.
(49:24):
I'm Diane Grisell, the host, andwe have been recording in
Manhattan Center, which is a phenomenal place.
I highly recommend you check outthe Manhattan Center website so
you can see all the things that can happen here from concerts to
TV shows being recorded to movies getting filmed to
soundtracks recorded. There was an orchestra in here
(49:47):
recently again getting recorded and it's so it's always
phenomenal things happening hereand I'm truly honored to be
sitting in TV too. Thank you.
Please subscribe, see you soon.
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