August 25, 2025 • 49 mins
Exploring the Intersection of Art, Life, and Masculinity with Gregory de la Haba | Silver Disobedience PodcastIn this episode of the Silver Disobedience Perception Dynamics podcast, host Dian Griesel engages in a compelling conversation with multidisciplinary artist Gregory de la Haba. Gregory, who delves into topics such as gambling addiction, masculinity, and cultural perceptions of modern men, shares his artistic journey and the evolution of his unique style. The discussion also covers Gregory's intriguing 'New York City portals' series and 'light paintings,' which capture vibrational frequencies through the use of glowing lines. The pair unpack the Spanish concept of 'duende,' highlighting moments of pure creative immersion. This episode offers deep insights into how life experiences shape artistic expression and provides an intimate look at Gregory's creative process. Don't miss this fascinating discussion that merges art, philosophy, and personal growth.
Please SUBSCRIBE! I’m Dian Griesel, Ph.D. aka @SilverDisobedience to my hundreds of thousands of monthly blog readers. You can learn more about me here: https://diangriesel.com
But for starters…I am a perception analyst, counselor, hypnotherapist, author of 16 books and a Wilhelmina model. For 30 years I have helped my clients to achieve greater understanding as to how perceptions impact everything we do whether personally or professionally.
This episode was recorded in collaboration with The Manhattan Center, New York City, New York. https://www.themanhattancenter.com/
Show Run: 00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction01:06 Exploring Multidisciplinary Art03:26 The Impact of COVID on Art10:36 The Concept of Duende16:27 Finding Your Unique Artistic Voice21:50 Role Models and Life's Journey23:24 The Impact of Parenthood on Artistry25:13 The Evolution of an Artist's Identity27:09 Defining Art and the Role of the Artist27:48 The Creative Process: Writing and Painting30:05 The Influence of Urban Life on Art33:26 Graffiti: An American Art Form38:46 Finding Inspiration and the Power of Art44:47 Life's Synchronicities and Artistic Expression47:41 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hello everyone, I'm Diane Grissell.
This is the Silver Disobedience Perception Dynamics podcast.
We're going to have a really interesting conversation every
today. My guest is Gregory de la Haba.
He's a multidisciplinary artist and we're going to find out
exactly what that term means because I have some ideas, but
(00:21):
I'm not 100% sure. But he explores gambling
addiction, modern man, how culture, our current culture and
society is seeing men today. So that's going to be
interesting to explore and a concept called Do When Day and I
cannot wait to learn more about that in particular because it
(00:44):
definitely aligns with a lot of what the theme of this podcast
is all about. So thank you, Gregory.
Thank you Diane for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.
And did I pronounce that right, Duende?
Duende, yes. Duende.
Yes, my my little bit of Spanish.
Seven years of it. I'd like to think I can still
get the accent where it belongs.You did it right.
(01:06):
So tell me, multidisciplinary artist, what does that mean to
you? Well, it was a term applied to
me by one of the art writers whowrote about me in the past, and
it just referred to the fact that I do many things.
I write, I curate. I was a publisher back in the
(01:27):
day. I do sculpture, drawing, but
primarily painting. That's what I set out to be
early on, a painter. How would you describe your
paintings? I've seen them online and
everyone will be able to see them in links below with this
podcast. But how would you describe your
painting? It's very unusual.
(01:49):
I have two types of paintings these days.
One I see more as graphic and more as a drawing.
Like doing a sketchbook work where I plot out ideas, where I
experiment with colors. And that series of work are what
I refer to as my New York City portals.
(02:12):
For years, I've been documentingthe photos.
I'm sorry. I've been documenting the doors
in New York City that all the street artists slapped their
stickers on. My favorite place to take
pictures. I look for those doors that are
covered. I'm like, there's this, there's
something behind this and it intrigues me.
(02:34):
And so I take the photo I printed out on large sheets of
canvas, and then I begin doing painting on top of that.
And I use the photograph as an underpainting and you know,
whether I'm creating my own graffiti on top of it, my own
stencil work. But early on, I begin
(02:55):
delineating the work with a neonlight that went around it just
to highlight something I felt itneeded, a border of sorts.
And after I was painting that light for a while, I realized
that there's more to this line, this painted light that I could,
you know, investigate. And so I began doing what I call
(03:18):
my light paintings. And it's just pure oil paint on
linen. And it really began after COVID
or during COVID when it seemed the whole world just went dark
and, you know, friends. Yeah.
(03:39):
Friends. Friends.
Yeah. No friends were dying, you know,
A a meetings were cancelled, butthe liquor stores were deemed
essential, you know, and. That was marvelous.
Was interesting twist in insanity.
And so, you know, I lost a few really good artist friends and
my two sons were in high school,you know, missed the opportunity
(04:02):
to go to concerts and their Proms.
And it was just dark and bleak. And I just all those themes that
you mentioned earlier that I investigated my entire life, you
know, masculinity, dwende. Addiction.
Addiction, you know, things I experienced and and tried to
create in these narrative paintings.
(04:25):
I pretty much tossed out the window Diane, because I just
wanted to be and paint light. Growing up, I was never a fan of
Rothko or any of the Abstract expressionists, the Kooning,
Jackson Pollock. But when I was in my mid 20s, I
see this giant Roscoe painting at the end of the tunnel
(04:46):
underneath the National Gallery.And it was literally the light
at the end of the tunnel. And here's this painter
conveying all this emotion to mewith just three colors.
And as I, you know, further investigated Roscoe and realized
how much he drank every day, which was a bottle of, you know,
(05:07):
Johnny Walker Red every single day because I knew the guy who
bought it for him, his assistant, Cowboy Ray Kelly.
You know, that you you begin to see that there was a certain
melancholic undertone to his work.
You know, it was it was emotional, but it also had an
air of desperation and depression and darkness.
(05:29):
And so my latest work and the work that's getting a lot of
attention are these light paintings and.
Can you describe what you mean by light?
Yes, if you look back in history, you could look at
somebody like Caravaggio, you know, who created these
(05:52):
fantastic realist paintings and a style of painting called
chiaroscuro, you know, light anddark, you know, dramatic lights
and dramatic darks. How he created the light, the
underpainting he used, the lead white paint, the glazing.
(06:13):
It just made the paintings pop off the wall.
And so with my light paintings, I focus more on the light side,
not the dark that, you know, makes it, you know.
Have it have contrast. The contrast, you know, right?
The opposite, right? So what I'm doing is I'm just
(06:37):
creating a line in the canvas onthe canvas that is just glowing.
That looks like, that's what it looks like.
It looks like somebody took right?
Yes. And when you post it on
Instagram, people think it's just a neon light and it's, you
know, written off And you know, I would never do something so
silly. It's seen a very kitsch to me.
(06:58):
Just put a neon light on on, on the canvas cause many artists do
it. So I, I paint this light line
and it glows and it just, it's all about vibrational
frequencies, you know, tapping into the invisible, you know,
(07:19):
because I feel that we are all created with this magical light,
you know? I agree with that.
Yeah, I definitely agree with that.
And I just really felt that after COVID, people needed to.
Come back they would. Appreciate seeing a painting
that was of the light, you know,so that's what's happening right
(07:43):
now with my latest work, you know, painting this light.
It's very cool. You know, when you talk about
light and the depth, that alwayscracks me up when people say,
well, that's very black and white because I mean, black and
white to me is a sharpie on a white piece of paper.
Otherwise, there is not a heck of a lot of black and white.
Maybe if we wanted to get philosophical with murder, yeah,
(08:06):
that's a, you know, right and wrong.
You kill somebody or you don't, you know, but there's very
little black and white. And in your art, when I saw the
lights going, I'm like, wow, this, this is light.
It feels good when you look at it and the the varied nature of
how you're moving the light around from 1:00 of the pictures
(08:27):
to another. And that movement is what I call
composition. And I'm composing a line or a
set of lines that are basically in dialogue with one another.
And you might look at it and see, you know, 2 dancers, a
ballet. And, and that's what I feel the
(08:49):
composition is what really creates a great painting.
It's what captures, you know, the that energy within the
framework. Now, when you do these light
paintings, are they starting from the picture of the doors or
that? No, no, no, no.
I'm. Mixing up my.
The doors are what I look at as my my sketchbook book work.
(09:14):
Where I'm just. Plotting out ideas, practicing
line and composition and and really having fun.
Being creative, you know, No holding back the light
paintings, you know nothing is by accident.
(09:35):
You know everything is composed with thought.
You know, sometimes, you know, things happen while you're
painting that like maybe some aerosol dust from the brush when
you're flicking it might, you know, float down on the bottom
(09:55):
of the canvas that's sticking out.
And that little dusting, you know, is a beautiful accident
and you'll leave it. But each line is methodically
placed, you know, and that's what I love to do is, is create
compositions that are compellingand that are inviting and that
(10:16):
make your eye travel within the painting, you know, because you
don't want to get stuck on one, you know, spot you wanted to, to
float throughout and go in and out of the painting.
You know, that's what I feel is a great, what makes a great
painting when you can walk into it and just get lost in it.
Now duende it's a it's a Spanishorigin concept.
(10:40):
It's my favorite word in the Spanish language and it has a
bunch of meanings, primary meeting meaning that most people
know it as is as a like a dwarf or a a gnome that lives in the
back of the house or, you know, underneath the mushroom
(11:02):
somewhere underneath the tree and it's, you know, we brought
back. Memories there.
When I was a little kid, I used to love to go in the woods.
We lived out on Long Island whenit wasn't that developed and
when you could find the holes inthe wood, like at the base of a
tree where I don't even know what you call those.
We stink holes because sometimesthey just stunk if you put your
(11:24):
hand in. And I think of how we had little
kids, we put our hands in those holes because sometimes you'd
find flowers in them. You'd find the Jack in the
pulpit wildflowers. So you're right back to fond
memory. Yeah.
Who was living in there? I always wanted to know.
And I was looking for those fairies, those little elves, as
a kid. But the meaning that I love is
(11:48):
it's reference to the fact when an artist is all consumed in
their work and when time stops. Or when a surfers, you know,
riding the nose of a surfboard or in the barrel of the wave and
they're just totally immersed inthat art.
(12:10):
Or the moment in between a bullfighter and the bull when
they're both staring death in the face.
That moment in between is dwende.
And so it's for me, it's a magical word.
And it's a word that I used and wrote many times in these
portals because it was kind of almost like my graffiti tag, you
(12:35):
know, Wendy, so. You know, that's really
interesting. And I trigger so many thoughts
because I write and I always say, you know, and, and I can be
writing and I have no idea how much time passes, or I can be
thinking about what I want to write about and have no idea,
You know, when I always say to people, if you're not sure what
(12:55):
you want to do, pay attention towhere time disappears because
that's giving you good insights.When you get lost in something.
It's the best and it can be across anything.
Like you mentioned, your sons were in high school during, you
know, the insanity period and arts.
Our daughter was in college and our son was in high school and
(13:19):
he's an extreme skateboarder andand into the whole graffiti
under round world. I'm like, I'll show you his tag
that's all over the sidewalks doors.
I go around and I take pictures.I'm like, my son was here, but
on a lot of doors. But what made me think of it
(13:42):
when you say that space in between, because there's some
days I look at his body, you know, as he's, you know, gotten
out of the shower. He's got his towel around his
waist. I'm like, but somebody looked at
you. They think we beat you.
You know that you, like you are beaten by.
Someone break more bones and. But he talks all the time about
that space between as he's goinginto the move and then lands it,
(14:08):
you know, whatever it is, whether it's, I don't even know
what they call them all. That's the language of its own,
you know. But, you know, airborne across a
20 step staircase as he spins his board four times, then
slides it down the nose and thenflips it again before he goes
off. But it's like that space.
How like? Evil 1.
(14:30):
Of my favorites, I'm always sharing the little videos of the
kids that try to imitate little boys.
I love that. And about boys that they want to
be evil. Knievel.
When I was a kid, every kid wanted to be evil Knievel.
But he said anybody can jump offa ramp.
The trouble is landing it and. And staying in that.
(14:51):
Space staying in that space. Because you've got to be in the
space to get to you got. To be in, you got to be in the
zone. Yeah, you got.
You got to see it through. You got to visualize, right.
You got to be able to see that you're going to land.
There's a great painter on the West Coast, Dave Torjay, and
he's part of this group of legendary great artist called
(15:14):
the California Locos. And he did a painting that I
first saw an Art Basel Miami like 1012 years ago.
And it was called Too Late for Luck.
And it was that moment you take off of a, of a ramp or jump
whatever, jump a mountain and it's, you know, it's no longer
(15:35):
about luck. It's about being able to
visualize that you're going to land.
Oh my gosh, you know, some interviews give me goosebumps
that that visual is so real to me.
Too late for luck, yeah? You know, just the other day a
girlfriend said to me, I was telling her about something
happening. She goes, you know, Diane, you
just can't worry about it. She goes because you take off
(15:57):
and land in ways that I don't understand.
She goes, but you take the jump.I'm like, I'm going to have to
think about that. My mother used to say that when
I was a little kid to me. You know, just and, and that's.
So funny concept. But that's also where you can
say it's not always the landing or the destination, but it's the
(16:21):
journey and it's about being able to just get up and go for
it. You know, you mentioned
addiction when I mean I love thesong, the Aerosmith song.
I but you know, you know the song I'm thinking of, you know,
but he uses Steven Tyler and youknow, I think it was with Steve
trying to think of who was Co writer in that they use the line
(16:46):
life's a journey, not a destiny.Oh, it's amazing is the song.
You know, they use the line life's a journey, not a
destination. And it's and it's so true.
You know, in anything, and I'm sure even in art, you must see
this. You know so many budding artists
or people you talk to who say they want to be artists are so
focused on that end game insteadof the process that makes art
(17:09):
unfold. That was definitely me early on.
Because you were younger. You're young and stupid.
You think you know everything. And when I was younger, I only
wanted to paint like, you know, Velasquez, to draw like
Michelangelo. And then you realize that by the
time you're 21 that you can fortunately, but there was
(17:33):
something missing. And hence when I saw the Roth go
and I see this guy just using color and no figures, no
portraits, no hands, no Virgin Mary.
And yet he's conveying the same sort of emotion that the Pieta
conveyed. It makes you wonder, well, what
are you going to do? You know, what are you going to
(17:54):
say with your skill set? And you know, because for years
it was just all about acquiring that skill set, you know, being
able to paint from life, being able to draw a model, a cast,
and, and in that kind of a skillset, you can actually grade it.
(18:14):
You know, you can say on a scaleof 1 to 10, it's a 0 or it's a 5
or actually that's A10 with abstract art.
Can you really grade it? And you know, I, I used to give
all the abexors a, a non passinggrade because I just, for me, it
was just child's play. But as I matured and realized,
(18:37):
you know, well, what am I going to say?
That's when I realized that art isn't about just skill, it's
about creating a unique visual vernacular.
And all these artists that I made fun of as a kid, as a
teenager, I realized what they had was their own language.
(19:00):
And it's taken me a lifetime, Diane, to find my own language.
And I, I, I'm finally tapping into it now.
And what's wonderful is that people are also recognizing it.
I love that you said that because we live in a world of a
(19:26):
lot of, you know, maybe it's social media, maybe it was just
something that was going to happen no matter what.
But imitation and and we've always had imitation.
There's why they have the expression imitation is the
sincerest form of flattery. But finding that I, I really
dislike the word authenticity because I think it's so
overused, but finding your personality, finding your
(19:50):
uniqueness, I always say to people, you know, some people
believe in God, some don't. I don't believe there's any
atheists and foxholes. I believe that a long time and
you know, so you find whatever your definition is, but I would
say, you know, if I was what, what do I think you know?
(20:10):
I think hell can exist on earth for sure.
I've been there. You know, hell can exist on
earth and so can heaven. And if there is an afterlife,
whatever anybody wants to believe that is, I always say to
them, listen, if you want to debate about that or think about
it, just say to yourself if someone said to you, if some
(20:31):
higher power said when you were on Earth, did you take advantage
of showing the world, finding your uniqueness?
I made you a one-of-a-kind. Did you take the time to find
that uniqueness, nurture it and show it somehow?
I don't care if you showed it taking care of your children or
have acknowledge it. Yes.
(20:51):
Yeah. That's it's no easy feat.
It's not, you know it's not. And it's, it's really, it's also
a blessing to be able to do thatbecause sadly, most people are
just trying to make ends meet. But you could be trying to make
(21:12):
ends meet and still do that. You know, I interview people
through all walks of life. I have friends through every
walk of life. My brother's high voltage guy.
You know your lights, you know you had somebody, not you.
Somebody hits a light pole, he'sthe first one there to make sure
the firemen can. Then, you know, so you can.
But you can find your passion inanything.
(21:34):
Yeah. You just have to find it.
Some people have the good fortune of making money from it.
Some people follow their passionand never make money from it,
but they're happy following thatpassion.
Yeah. I think that's why role models
are so important and having a guiding light, a teacher.
(22:00):
You have a role model or and areyou a role model?
Let's do it both ways. Well, like I can definitely be
inspiring to others because I'vealways viewed my life as
blessed. I've always been able to give
and, you know, I've never have wanted for anything in my life
(22:24):
except to be a painter. And that was always the, the,
the struggle in my life, you know, finding, you know, my way
as a painter because as I'm thinking it's just a straight
line. You know, you have God and the
universe whacking you left and right saying no, maybe you're
going to do this, you know, So you become a publisher.
No, I think, you know, you're a writer.
(22:46):
You should go write about this art because since you know about
it, you might as well write about it.
So you spend time writing about art and then, you know, because
you are native New Yorker and you can make things happen, you
begin curating because you know how to connect dots.
And so all these avenues open themselves up as you're just
(23:08):
trying to pursue something. And you know, it was the most
elusive of all of them. You know, even like, you know, I
didn't as a teenager see myself as a married man.
But yet you find the woman of your dreams.
You, you married 31 years, then you find out you're a father,
and then you're a father again and again.
(23:28):
It's, you know, all diversion taking you away from your course
of being a painter. No, that's a funny one, Chuck
close. I remember reading an interview
with him one time, and he said he did his best work after his
stroke and when his kids left the house because all of a
(23:50):
sudden he was building up to it.But then he had no distractions.
And even though he was in that wheelchair, you know, working,
like extremely difficult, you know, trying to get into those
little squares, he was, you know, sliding back in his
wheelchair to go back and forth.So what I was going to say is
that diversion, though, it's a magnificent diversion, yes.
(24:15):
I agree with you. Don't get discouraged along the
way and feel like it's a it's a weight that you can't carry, you
know? I think my kids made me better
at everything I do because they challenge you in ways patience,
you know, explaining stuff differently, listening,
(24:36):
exploring them, you know, sayingput things in.
Perspective. Big time.
You know, and as an artist, you need perspective.
Yeah. So yeah, having children was the
the best thing I ever created, for sure.
And you know, you realize, you know, as you're taking them to
(24:57):
all their sporting events and dropping off at school and
picking them up from school and seeing what troubles they're
having in school and what not, you realize, you know, what a
blessing it is just to even lookat art at the end of the day,
let alone be able to make it. You know, it's interesting
you've, you've transitioned yourart and things you've done a few
times and Mark Beard, who's who you may know, who's one of the
(25:23):
foremost painters of the male nude in the world.
And he did like the panels at Abercrombie when they had the
big murals. He, you know, redid the art at
Bemelman's bar. Really cool stuff.
But one time I read in an interview that he paints, he
paints under 5 different names, including one being a woman.
(25:43):
And why he started to do that was as his art would evolve,
you'd have all the chimers. The critics say, well you know,
you know he's lost his way. He no longer knows what he's
doing or the vibes not the same or this is not of the same
quality or it's such an interest.
(26:05):
So he's like, fine, I'm going todo what I want, but I'll do it
as different people and you'll never know.
Very clever. I was.
Just yesterday was Calder's birthday.
Alexander Calder. And so I was watching a
documentary on Calder and he didn't call his works art, he
called them objects. This way he wouldn't have to
(26:28):
worry about defending whether it's art or not because he was
making these, you know, mobiles that were, you know, just the
whole, you know, breakthrough inthe sculptural arena.
So I thought it was great, you know, because he just, he didn't
want to bother having to defend himself.
And you know, the last thing an artist should do is worry.
(26:52):
Worry about defending himself, or even worse, judging
themselves. The artist should just be in
their studio, painting, paintingand painting or sculpting,
whatever they're doing, and thenjust move on.
How do you define the word artist?
What does that mean to you? Simply put, somebody who makes
(27:17):
art. Somebody.
Somebody who works with their hands.
And I like the Neil dying thing.Make art, Yeah.
Creative. You know.
I always like the word that Disney applies to their
creatives, that he calls them Imagineers.
Yes, they're imagining, you know, something that's never
(27:37):
been seen before. And so, yeah, somebody who
creates something. It's interesting.
Never existed before. The the difference of artists
should just create art because when people tell me they want to
write a book and I've written a lot of books, business books,
not imaginary books or you know,health and the different
(27:58):
categories, but not not that I say require a lot of
imagination. It's more like recall of things
I'm thinking about. But when people tell me they
want to write, I say, listen, you want to be a writer, write.
Just write everyday, allocate some time.
Say ideally you want to pick a time you know you have an hour,
(28:18):
but promise yourself you're going to do it for 10 minutes, 5
to 10 minutes. And if at the end of five to 10
minutes the page is blank or you're repeating the same
sentence, you know, close it up.But if you feel you're in that
flow, make sure you get to use that full hour and more if you
have it. But right don't edit, right?
(28:41):
Right, right. Editing is a different process
and you write as well. So do you think that's the same
with creating a painting? Yes, you know, there's times
that you do have to edit and youknow, you know, be that critic.
(29:02):
But it's it's not during the process, not during the dwende
moment, you know, you know, for instance, I created these three
large dip Dicks and you know, the canvas when it's stretched,
you know, it's not cheap. You know, you spend a few $1000
on, you know, 7 foot panels expensive.
(29:25):
Yeah, it's expensive. And you know, I created these
paintings and I'm just like, youknow, they're it's not there.
It's not what I'm looking for. I don't I'm not feeling it.
And so I folded them up, you know, put them away to the side
and forgot about him for about 6months.
And then when I look back at him, I'm like, you know, it's
(29:47):
not as bad as I originally thought, but I know now what I'm
going to do. And so, you know, a new day
brings a fresh eye and the fresheye can see things perhaps more
clearly than a, a tired eye, right?
So there's there's that. You know what's so funny?
You say that because the other couple few weeks, weekends ago,
(30:10):
we were with friends and they were like, you got to watch this
guy what he does and Long story short, bottom line, he building
this house in the middle of nowhere, but he paints at night
and they're like you got to see these paintings.
So I'm watching him and he's spending hours, you know,
they've time lapsed it, but he'shours just painting the canvas
(30:33):
black. So I'm like, OK, got that.
Then he starts painting things on it.
Next thing he's covering all theblack with orange and there's no
more black in the painting. And I was trying to, and then he
did this repeatedly in differentparts.
I'm like, I'm waiting for him totake his fingernail and like
(30:55):
scratch through on those things like they had as kids where
there would be all the layers and you scratched it.
Like what's going on with something like that from an
artistic mind? My opinion on that?
That he has no idea where he's going.
Or is he lingering on purpose orjust kind of letting it unfold,
(31:16):
saying, well, black looks good on this white canvas, but in a
minute it's going to be orange? All I can say is, you know, my
portals are about layering, you know, what you see on the
surface, whether it's people or painting and what goes on
underneath are always 2 separatethings.
And so the portal paintings, theunderpainting is that that raw
(31:43):
angst of the city. And what I'm always trying to do
is create the calming light on top of that.
It's it's like a yin and Yang, you know, chaos and and calming,
(32:03):
because having that duality is what makes things very
interesting. And that's why in life, when I
was pursuing my art career and when all these other things came
into play, you know, the curating, the writing, the
publishing, the marriage, the children, you know, I just saw
(32:29):
it as just more of life's experience that I knew would
eventually find their way into the painting.
It's like I feel like I had to live life first before I found,
(32:52):
you know, my style. I had to really go off and, and,
you know, experience all these things because it just made me a
better painter, a more understanding painter, less
judge mental one. Because in when I was young, I
was just a judge, mental, you know, moron if it wasn't what I
(33:13):
wanted or yeah, in the style of an old master, I, I wrote it off
and, you know, but I had to go through that process and, you
know, edit it out eventually. You know, you talked about the
angst of the city and I gravitate towards graffiti so,
(33:38):
and it must be genetic since it's gone down into.
But graffiti, when I pass a wall, if someone was to pick up
my phone, they'd go through and they'd say, you take a lot of
picture of stickers, like why are you always like those walls
where everyone's trying to get their their mark out in the
(33:58):
world, their ad, their yeah, mark making, you know, their
tag, as they call it in graffiti.
I now know you know but. You said angst of the city.
Where do you tie those two together?
(34:20):
One of my dear friends, his nameis Tag.
Is he a graffiti artist? He he he is a legendary OG from
the early 80s. OK.
In fact, he used to have these. I'm telling her son about this.
(34:40):
He would have chalkboard battleswith Keith Herring to see who
could, you know, scroll on more chalkboards in the MTA subway
systems. He's legendary.
He's tagged, you know, trains and buildings, you know, for the
last, you know, 50 years, 40 years.
And but he grew up on the Lower East Side and he saw his tags,
(35:07):
his graffiti writing as beautifying the neighborhood.
Now, when you grew up on the Lower East Side in the 70s and
80s, you know, there were a lot of vacant buildings.
People don't realize how horrible it was, how vacant it.
Was I just somebody recommended the movie Dinner with Andre?
(35:28):
Yes, which I had never seen. And I was trying as fast as I
could to take snap pictures of the subways, you know, in the
late 1970s, which I remember, you know, but most people would
say, no way, that's just a scene.
It did not look like. No the way the.
York is now at all. I missed that.
(35:51):
I think I've got some 70s punk in me I miss that.
I'd like. I mean, if there was one good
thing from that era is that rents were, you know, a hundred
200 bucks. And the artists from the time
never were concerned about leaving their loft or their
studio and going off to Europe for the summer because they knew
when they came back in the fall,there would be plenty of places
(36:12):
that they could still rent for nothing.
But you know, the tragic side ofthat was that how many artists
died of AIDS and heroin back then?
It was rampant in the East Village and Lower East Side and
and that's the neighborhood thateasy grew up in.
So that was, that was part of the angst, trying to survive
(36:35):
that, trying to avoid that and trying to find some beauty in
what was really an ugly neighborhood, you know, so.
It's still one of my favorite places to walk.
I mean, I love walking down justfor kicks when I take a long,
long walk. If I just want exercise, I go
from Hell's Kitchen. Where I mostly reside, you know,
(36:58):
this kind of area, and I'll walkover to Freeman's Alley just to
look at the graffiti and the stickers and say, yeah, what's
different this week? Yeah, no, it's it is magical.
It is beautiful and it is vibrant.
Yeah. And it's just filled with
energy. I mean, I'd be pissed off if you
did it to my building. If I owned a building and you
did it to my building. I don't, I don't like that kind
(37:19):
of, you know, graffiti. But if it's kind of one of those
public, I think scaffolding is free game even though it's owned
by someone, right? Right.
Don't quote me on that. Let's delete that.
No, not really. But no, it is, it's and it's,
it's also, I believe, a truly American art form.
(37:41):
Like it really, you know, was established in in the Bronx and
the outer boroughs, and it just became this worldwide
phenomenon. It's so funny, I remember first
coming into the city in like 7778 and I, you know, go around
and I remember looking for cost and Revs.
(38:02):
And to this day I remember the competition of who was going to
be tagging what. And you'd look and say, I don't
love the craziness of it. You know, when I see something
insane like how did they get up there?
That never makes me feel good. And I wish they wouldn't do
that, you know? Yeah, one of my friends broke
his back as he fell off one of those billboards.
(38:24):
Yeah, but it's you're right. It's such a New York thing
because I do have people who, you know, following stuff I do
from all over the world and they'll say, where did you take
that picture? What is that?
The beauty of New York. Yeah, there's a lot of
creativity here, you know, And can you, where do you find your
(38:48):
most, most of your inspiration comes from?
I never saw it as, you know, seeking inspiration.
That was always something that was just.
I felt inside within. Yeah.
Like, you know, I had since I'm a child.
(39:11):
There was no Plan B. It was just you're, you're a
painter. You're an artist.
And I believe in the power of art.
I believe in poetry. And I believe that art and
poetry have the power to change lives, to elevate, you know, the
senses and the, the, the, the spirit of each individual and
(39:37):
that it can really work for the better for humanity.
And that's why I've just always wanted to pursue that because it
was that was always just within.Now I look at certain artist and
I get energized, you know, you know, seeing great art makes me
(40:02):
want to just return to the studio and just keep painting
and keep going after you know what I'm working on and maybe
maybe alter it a little bit, youknow, because you're, you're
feeling all these awesome thingsaround you and you realize.
When you are in a city like New York, how much raw talent exist
(40:23):
everywhere? And so, you know, I'm always
going out seeing what's the latest shows and, you know.
Yeah, that's one of the things Ilove about New York.
Just seeing, you know, popping into a club it sometimes it's
four in the afternoon to see what band got the stage at 4:00
(40:45):
PM. You know, cuz the better bands
going on at midnight. But the club is set up that
starting at 3:30 or 4 you can get your slot and see if you can
get your crowd in and work your way up.
It's always fun. I wasn't old enough to go to the
mud club, you know, but it's. It's I'm older than you.
(41:08):
But one of my dear friends is the painter Judy Rifka, who in
the 70s and 80s was a God. You know, she was a rock star.
And, you know, Keith Haring usedto curate her work at the Mud
Club. And I wish if I could go back in
time, I would love to just be atthat place, in that venue to
see, you know, to feel the energy.
(41:30):
You know, we were talking about black and white earlier, you
know, and I think that's one of the reasons why Basquiat called
his band Gray Matter, because there's that whole area in
between that the real good stuffcan be found, you know, when the
when the 2 are together, that's.Yeah.
(41:54):
Magic. You know, you mentioned in your
bio I believe is where I read it, exploring maleness, the male
species today. What does that mean to you?
(42:16):
Again, that was something that someone else wrote because a lot
of my earlier paintings were self portraits and, you know,
more like in a. It's kind of like.
Erotics. Yeah.
Erotic. Because I'm available.
(42:37):
I I, you know, I didn't have to wait for a model to show up.
I could just, you know, paint myself.
And so I would use myself in a lot of the, you know, the
figurative paintings I did. And you know, my wife would be
like, you know, what are you trying to say you?
Know just like. I'm just trying to paint
something that no one's ever seen before, something
(42:58):
interesting. And so just exploring the human
figure, the female figure, and just trying to create a
narrative of, of something that's humane and fascinating
and, and not dull and boring because I never wanted to lead
a, a dull and boring life. But you know, it was when I
(43:27):
became a father though, and I had this, my first son, I
realized one day when he was looking for the remote and I
yelled, it's on top of the TV and he just like froze up and he
was only like two or three yearsold.
And I'm like, what I'm saying tomyself, what the hell am I
(43:49):
yelling at? This kid was just looking for
the remote, you know, And I, I realized then that.
We've all been there. The only people who haven't,
haven't been parents. Right, right.
And I just realized that I need to let this little light shine
on his own. And I I have to be mindful of my
(44:14):
very masculine. Dominance over.
Dominance figure. And so I did a few paintings
where, you know, my children aremaybe in a small rocking horse
and I'm on a, you know, real life horse.
Stallion. Yeah, Stallion.
And so there was that, you know,not so much masculine, but more
(44:37):
about being a father. Yes, and, and and allowing, you
know, this young child to flourish as I'm watching guard,
you know. On that note, do you believe
that art imitates life or life imitates art, Or is it a merger
(44:57):
of the two? Oh, 100% a merge of the two.
Because you know, I've, I've spent most of my life in a bar,
Mcsorley's Old Ale House down inthe East Village.
I've been drinking there since I'm thirteen years old, and if I
(45:20):
wrote half the things that I sawin there, you wouldn't believe
me. Or even anything that I've seen
in the East Village over the years.
What's fascinating is that, you know, as busy as we are, I can
bring two people, two different families to sit at the same
(45:44):
table and just coming in off thestreet.
Turns out they're from not just the same state, but the same
neighborhood and live around thecorner from each other.
Like if you write something likethat in a book, you'd be like,
no way. You know how many times people
have met their significant otherin the bar, You know, just by
(46:05):
chance encounter. You know, there there are
certain things in life that if you created art from it or a
movie, it would almost be too far fetched.
And yet life unravels as such. You know, my mother died on a
(46:26):
Saturday at 3:21 in the afternoon.
And because she played pick three and pick 4:00 every single
day of her, you know, senior life and she watched, you know,
Jeopardy at 7, the New York Lotto drawing, it's right in
(46:46):
between. And then wheel for I figured,
you know, that night I'd go to Saint Pat's.
I lit a few candles in her honor.
And then I, you know, went and bought some Lotto and played
321. And why didn't you know it, 321
pops up on, you know, the pick three that night.
And you know my $20 bet paid $12,000.
(47:07):
Oh my gosh. Like why does that happen?
Right, I believe in synchronicity.
Oh my God. And so life is fascinating and
there are those moments that I feel the universe is whispering
to you and you have to be willing to listen and be open to
(47:33):
believing. And when you are, magic happens.
You know, Gregory de la Haba, I could not have picked a better
way to wrap up this show than what you just said.
Well, thank you and. Unfortunately, we are at the end
of our show. That was really quick.
(47:54):
Oh my gosh, isn't it? I mean, this was a fantastic
conversation. I really appreciate your time.
Thank you so much, Diana. It was lovely being here.
And what a great ending. Good, yeah.
Hello everybody. I don't know if you watched
through this whole episode, but you're going to want to and
you're going to want to share itwith your friends.
I'm Diane Grissell. My guest today has been artist,
(48:17):
multimedia, multi dimensional, multifaceted artist Gregory de
la Haba. And you're going to be able to
find all his contact info below this.
Gregory, thank you so much for your time.
I really really enjoyed this. So did I, Yeah.
I wish we could do another hour.You know we may.
Just another day. You never know how life unfolds.
(48:39):
That's right. All the best to you.
Thank you. Thank you.
So thank you everybody. Again, we're at iconic Manhattan
center in TV Studio 2. Please subscribe to the podcast
Silver disobedience perception dynamics.
You can find it on every channel25 plus countries and growing
and also on YouTube and justice.Check it out and share it and
(49:00):
enjoy. We've got some really great
interviews happening and coming up, and this one is 1.
Your friends will absolutely want to watch.
Take care.
Hello everyone, I'm Diane Grissell.
This is the Silver Disobedience Perception Dynamics podcast.
We're going to have a really interesting conversation every
today. My guest is Gregory de la Haba.
He's a multidisciplinary artist and we're going to find out
exactly what that term means because I have some ideas, but
(00:21):
I'm not 100% sure. But he explores gambling
addiction, modern man, how culture, our current culture and
society is seeing men today. So that's going to be
interesting to explore and a concept called Do When Day and I
cannot wait to learn more about that in particular because it
(00:44):
definitely aligns with a lot of what the theme of this podcast
is all about. So thank you, Gregory.
Thank you Diane for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.
And did I pronounce that right, Duende?
Duende, yes. Duende.
Yes, my my little bit of Spanish.
Seven years of it. I'd like to think I can still
get the accent where it belongs.You did it right.
(01:06):
So tell me, multidisciplinary artist, what does that mean to
you? Well, it was a term applied to
me by one of the art writers whowrote about me in the past, and
it just referred to the fact that I do many things.
I write, I curate. I was a publisher back in the
(01:27):
day. I do sculpture, drawing, but
primarily painting. That's what I set out to be
early on, a painter. How would you describe your
paintings? I've seen them online and
everyone will be able to see them in links below with this
podcast. But how would you describe your
painting? It's very unusual.
(01:49):
I have two types of paintings these days.
One I see more as graphic and more as a drawing.
Like doing a sketchbook work where I plot out ideas, where I
experiment with colors. And that series of work are what
I refer to as my New York City portals.
(02:12):
For years, I've been documentingthe photos.
I'm sorry. I've been documenting the doors
in New York City that all the street artists slapped their
stickers on. My favorite place to take
pictures. I look for those doors that are
covered. I'm like, there's this, there's
something behind this and it intrigues me.
(02:34):
And so I take the photo I printed out on large sheets of
canvas, and then I begin doing painting on top of that.
And I use the photograph as an underpainting and you know,
whether I'm creating my own graffiti on top of it, my own
stencil work. But early on, I begin
(02:55):
delineating the work with a neonlight that went around it just
to highlight something I felt itneeded, a border of sorts.
And after I was painting that light for a while, I realized
that there's more to this line, this painted light that I could,
you know, investigate. And so I began doing what I call
(03:18):
my light paintings. And it's just pure oil paint on
linen. And it really began after COVID
or during COVID when it seemed the whole world just went dark
and, you know, friends. Yeah.
(03:39):
Friends. Friends.
Yeah. No friends were dying, you know,
A a meetings were cancelled, butthe liquor stores were deemed
essential, you know, and. That was marvelous.
Was interesting twist in insanity.
And so, you know, I lost a few really good artist friends and
my two sons were in high school,you know, missed the opportunity
(04:02):
to go to concerts and their Proms.
And it was just dark and bleak. And I just all those themes that
you mentioned earlier that I investigated my entire life, you
know, masculinity, dwende. Addiction.
Addiction, you know, things I experienced and and tried to
create in these narrative paintings.
(04:25):
I pretty much tossed out the window Diane, because I just
wanted to be and paint light. Growing up, I was never a fan of
Rothko or any of the Abstract expressionists, the Kooning,
Jackson Pollock. But when I was in my mid 20s, I
see this giant Roscoe painting at the end of the tunnel
(04:46):
underneath the National Gallery.And it was literally the light
at the end of the tunnel. And here's this painter
conveying all this emotion to mewith just three colors.
And as I, you know, further investigated Roscoe and realized
how much he drank every day, which was a bottle of, you know,
(05:07):
Johnny Walker Red every single day because I knew the guy who
bought it for him, his assistant, Cowboy Ray Kelly.
You know, that you you begin to see that there was a certain
melancholic undertone to his work.
You know, it was it was emotional, but it also had an
air of desperation and depression and darkness.
(05:29):
And so my latest work and the work that's getting a lot of
attention are these light paintings and.
Can you describe what you mean by light?
Yes, if you look back in history, you could look at
somebody like Caravaggio, you know, who created these
(05:52):
fantastic realist paintings and a style of painting called
chiaroscuro, you know, light anddark, you know, dramatic lights
and dramatic darks. How he created the light, the
underpainting he used, the lead white paint, the glazing.
(06:13):
It just made the paintings pop off the wall.
And so with my light paintings, I focus more on the light side,
not the dark that, you know, makes it, you know.
Have it have contrast. The contrast, you know, right?
The opposite, right? So what I'm doing is I'm just
(06:37):
creating a line in the canvas onthe canvas that is just glowing.
That looks like, that's what it looks like.
It looks like somebody took right?
Yes. And when you post it on
Instagram, people think it's just a neon light and it's, you
know, written off And you know, I would never do something so
silly. It's seen a very kitsch to me.
(06:58):
Just put a neon light on on, on the canvas cause many artists do
it. So I, I paint this light line
and it glows and it just, it's all about vibrational
frequencies, you know, tapping into the invisible, you know,
(07:19):
because I feel that we are all created with this magical light,
you know? I agree with that.
Yeah, I definitely agree with that.
And I just really felt that after COVID, people needed to.
Come back they would. Appreciate seeing a painting
that was of the light, you know,so that's what's happening right
(07:43):
now with my latest work, you know, painting this light.
It's very cool. You know, when you talk about
light and the depth, that alwayscracks me up when people say,
well, that's very black and white because I mean, black and
white to me is a sharpie on a white piece of paper.
Otherwise, there is not a heck of a lot of black and white.
Maybe if we wanted to get philosophical with murder, yeah,
(08:06):
that's a, you know, right and wrong.
You kill somebody or you don't, you know, but there's very
little black and white. And in your art, when I saw the
lights going, I'm like, wow, this, this is light.
It feels good when you look at it and the the varied nature of
how you're moving the light around from 1:00 of the pictures
(08:27):
to another. And that movement is what I call
composition. And I'm composing a line or a
set of lines that are basically in dialogue with one another.
And you might look at it and see, you know, 2 dancers, a
ballet. And, and that's what I feel the
(08:49):
composition is what really creates a great painting.
It's what captures, you know, the that energy within the
framework. Now, when you do these light
paintings, are they starting from the picture of the doors or
that? No, no, no, no.
I'm. Mixing up my.
The doors are what I look at as my my sketchbook book work.
(09:14):
Where I'm just. Plotting out ideas, practicing
line and composition and and really having fun.
Being creative, you know, No holding back the light
paintings, you know nothing is by accident.
(09:35):
You know everything is composed with thought.
You know, sometimes, you know, things happen while you're
painting that like maybe some aerosol dust from the brush when
you're flicking it might, you know, float down on the bottom
(09:55):
of the canvas that's sticking out.
And that little dusting, you know, is a beautiful accident
and you'll leave it. But each line is methodically
placed, you know, and that's what I love to do is, is create
compositions that are compellingand that are inviting and that
(10:16):
make your eye travel within the painting, you know, because you
don't want to get stuck on one, you know, spot you wanted to, to
float throughout and go in and out of the painting.
You know, that's what I feel is a great, what makes a great
painting when you can walk into it and just get lost in it.
Now duende it's a it's a Spanishorigin concept.
(10:40):
It's my favorite word in the Spanish language and it has a
bunch of meanings, primary meeting meaning that most people
know it as is as a like a dwarf or a a gnome that lives in the
back of the house or, you know, underneath the mushroom
(11:02):
somewhere underneath the tree and it's, you know, we brought
back. Memories there.
When I was a little kid, I used to love to go in the woods.
We lived out on Long Island whenit wasn't that developed and
when you could find the holes inthe wood, like at the base of a
tree where I don't even know what you call those.
We stink holes because sometimesthey just stunk if you put your
(11:24):
hand in. And I think of how we had little
kids, we put our hands in those holes because sometimes you'd
find flowers in them. You'd find the Jack in the
pulpit wildflowers. So you're right back to fond
memory. Yeah.
Who was living in there? I always wanted to know.
And I was looking for those fairies, those little elves, as
a kid. But the meaning that I love is
(11:48):
it's reference to the fact when an artist is all consumed in
their work and when time stops. Or when a surfers, you know,
riding the nose of a surfboard or in the barrel of the wave and
they're just totally immersed inthat art.
(12:10):
Or the moment in between a bullfighter and the bull when
they're both staring death in the face.
That moment in between is dwende.
And so it's for me, it's a magical word.
And it's a word that I used and wrote many times in these
portals because it was kind of almost like my graffiti tag, you
(12:35):
know, Wendy, so. You know, that's really
interesting. And I trigger so many thoughts
because I write and I always say, you know, and, and I can be
writing and I have no idea how much time passes, or I can be
thinking about what I want to write about and have no idea,
You know, when I always say to people, if you're not sure what
(12:55):
you want to do, pay attention towhere time disappears because
that's giving you good insights.When you get lost in something.
It's the best and it can be across anything.
Like you mentioned, your sons were in high school during, you
know, the insanity period and arts.
Our daughter was in college and our son was in high school and
(13:19):
he's an extreme skateboarder andand into the whole graffiti
under round world. I'm like, I'll show you his tag
that's all over the sidewalks doors.
I go around and I take pictures.I'm like, my son was here, but
on a lot of doors. But what made me think of it
(13:42):
when you say that space in between, because there's some
days I look at his body, you know, as he's, you know, gotten
out of the shower. He's got his towel around his
waist. I'm like, but somebody looked at
you. They think we beat you.
You know that you, like you are beaten by.
Someone break more bones and. But he talks all the time about
that space between as he's goinginto the move and then lands it,
(14:08):
you know, whatever it is, whether it's, I don't even know
what they call them all. That's the language of its own,
you know. But, you know, airborne across a
20 step staircase as he spins his board four times, then
slides it down the nose and thenflips it again before he goes
off. But it's like that space.
How like? Evil 1.
(14:30):
Of my favorites, I'm always sharing the little videos of the
kids that try to imitate little boys.
I love that. And about boys that they want to
be evil. Knievel.
When I was a kid, every kid wanted to be evil Knievel.
But he said anybody can jump offa ramp.
The trouble is landing it and. And staying in that.
(14:51):
Space staying in that space. Because you've got to be in the
space to get to you got. To be in, you got to be in the
zone. Yeah, you got.
You got to see it through. You got to visualize, right.
You got to be able to see that you're going to land.
There's a great painter on the West Coast, Dave Torjay, and
he's part of this group of legendary great artist called
(15:14):
the California Locos. And he did a painting that I
first saw an Art Basel Miami like 1012 years ago.
And it was called Too Late for Luck.
And it was that moment you take off of a, of a ramp or jump
whatever, jump a mountain and it's, you know, it's no longer
(15:35):
about luck. It's about being able to
visualize that you're going to land.
Oh my gosh, you know, some interviews give me goosebumps
that that visual is so real to me.
Too late for luck, yeah? You know, just the other day a
girlfriend said to me, I was telling her about something
happening. She goes, you know, Diane, you
just can't worry about it. She goes because you take off
(15:57):
and land in ways that I don't understand.
She goes, but you take the jump.I'm like, I'm going to have to
think about that. My mother used to say that when
I was a little kid to me. You know, just and, and that's.
So funny concept. But that's also where you can
say it's not always the landing or the destination, but it's the
(16:21):
journey and it's about being able to just get up and go for
it. You know, you mentioned
addiction when I mean I love thesong, the Aerosmith song.
I but you know, you know the song I'm thinking of, you know,
but he uses Steven Tyler and youknow, I think it was with Steve
trying to think of who was Co writer in that they use the line
(16:46):
life's a journey, not a destiny.Oh, it's amazing is the song.
You know, they use the line life's a journey, not a
destination. And it's and it's so true.
You know, in anything, and I'm sure even in art, you must see
this. You know so many budding artists
or people you talk to who say they want to be artists are so
focused on that end game insteadof the process that makes art
(17:09):
unfold. That was definitely me early on.
Because you were younger. You're young and stupid.
You think you know everything. And when I was younger, I only
wanted to paint like, you know, Velasquez, to draw like
Michelangelo. And then you realize that by the
time you're 21 that you can fortunately, but there was
(17:33):
something missing. And hence when I saw the Roth go
and I see this guy just using color and no figures, no
portraits, no hands, no Virgin Mary.
And yet he's conveying the same sort of emotion that the Pieta
conveyed. It makes you wonder, well, what
are you going to do? You know, what are you going to
(17:54):
say with your skill set? And you know, because for years
it was just all about acquiring that skill set, you know, being
able to paint from life, being able to draw a model, a cast,
and, and in that kind of a skillset, you can actually grade it.
(18:14):
You know, you can say on a scaleof 1 to 10, it's a 0 or it's a 5
or actually that's A10 with abstract art.
Can you really grade it? And you know, I, I used to give
all the abexors a, a non passinggrade because I just, for me, it
was just child's play. But as I matured and realized,
(18:37):
you know, well, what am I going to say?
That's when I realized that art isn't about just skill, it's
about creating a unique visual vernacular.
And all these artists that I made fun of as a kid, as a
teenager, I realized what they had was their own language.
(19:00):
And it's taken me a lifetime, Diane, to find my own language.
And I, I, I'm finally tapping into it now.
And what's wonderful is that people are also recognizing it.
I love that you said that because we live in a world of a
(19:26):
lot of, you know, maybe it's social media, maybe it was just
something that was going to happen no matter what.
But imitation and and we've always had imitation.
There's why they have the expression imitation is the
sincerest form of flattery. But finding that I, I really
dislike the word authenticity because I think it's so
overused, but finding your personality, finding your
(19:50):
uniqueness, I always say to people, you know, some people
believe in God, some don't. I don't believe there's any
atheists and foxholes. I believe that a long time and
you know, so you find whatever your definition is, but I would
say, you know, if I was what, what do I think you know?
(20:10):
I think hell can exist on earth for sure.
I've been there. You know, hell can exist on
earth and so can heaven. And if there is an afterlife,
whatever anybody wants to believe that is, I always say to
them, listen, if you want to debate about that or think about
it, just say to yourself if someone said to you, if some
(20:31):
higher power said when you were on Earth, did you take advantage
of showing the world, finding your uniqueness?
I made you a one-of-a-kind. Did you take the time to find
that uniqueness, nurture it and show it somehow?
I don't care if you showed it taking care of your children or
have acknowledge it. Yes.
(20:51):
Yeah. That's it's no easy feat.
It's not, you know it's not. And it's, it's really, it's also
a blessing to be able to do thatbecause sadly, most people are
just trying to make ends meet. But you could be trying to make
(21:12):
ends meet and still do that. You know, I interview people
through all walks of life. I have friends through every
walk of life. My brother's high voltage guy.
You know your lights, you know you had somebody, not you.
Somebody hits a light pole, he'sthe first one there to make sure
the firemen can. Then, you know, so you can.
But you can find your passion inanything.
(21:34):
Yeah. You just have to find it.
Some people have the good fortune of making money from it.
Some people follow their passionand never make money from it,
but they're happy following thatpassion.
Yeah. I think that's why role models
are so important and having a guiding light, a teacher.
(22:00):
You have a role model or and areyou a role model?
Let's do it both ways. Well, like I can definitely be
inspiring to others because I'vealways viewed my life as
blessed. I've always been able to give
and, you know, I've never have wanted for anything in my life
(22:24):
except to be a painter. And that was always the, the,
the struggle in my life, you know, finding, you know, my way
as a painter because as I'm thinking it's just a straight
line. You know, you have God and the
universe whacking you left and right saying no, maybe you're
going to do this, you know, So you become a publisher.
No, I think, you know, you're a writer.
(22:46):
You should go write about this art because since you know about
it, you might as well write about it.
So you spend time writing about art and then, you know, because
you are native New Yorker and you can make things happen, you
begin curating because you know how to connect dots.
And so all these avenues open themselves up as you're just
(23:08):
trying to pursue something. And you know, it was the most
elusive of all of them. You know, even like, you know, I
didn't as a teenager see myself as a married man.
But yet you find the woman of your dreams.
You, you married 31 years, then you find out you're a father,
and then you're a father again and again.
(23:28):
It's, you know, all diversion taking you away from your course
of being a painter. No, that's a funny one, Chuck
close. I remember reading an interview
with him one time, and he said he did his best work after his
stroke and when his kids left the house because all of a
(23:50):
sudden he was building up to it.But then he had no distractions.
And even though he was in that wheelchair, you know, working,
like extremely difficult, you know, trying to get into those
little squares, he was, you know, sliding back in his
wheelchair to go back and forth.So what I was going to say is
that diversion, though, it's a magnificent diversion, yes.
(24:15):
I agree with you. Don't get discouraged along the
way and feel like it's a it's a weight that you can't carry, you
know? I think my kids made me better
at everything I do because they challenge you in ways patience,
you know, explaining stuff differently, listening,
(24:36):
exploring them, you know, sayingput things in.
Perspective. Big time.
You know, and as an artist, you need perspective.
Yeah. So yeah, having children was the
the best thing I ever created, for sure.
And you know, you realize, you know, as you're taking them to
(24:57):
all their sporting events and dropping off at school and
picking them up from school and seeing what troubles they're
having in school and what not, you realize, you know, what a
blessing it is just to even lookat art at the end of the day,
let alone be able to make it. You know, it's interesting
you've, you've transitioned yourart and things you've done a few
times and Mark Beard, who's who you may know, who's one of the
(25:23):
foremost painters of the male nude in the world.
And he did like the panels at Abercrombie when they had the
big murals. He, you know, redid the art at
Bemelman's bar. Really cool stuff.
But one time I read in an interview that he paints, he
paints under 5 different names, including one being a woman.
(25:43):
And why he started to do that was as his art would evolve,
you'd have all the chimers. The critics say, well you know,
you know he's lost his way. He no longer knows what he's
doing or the vibes not the same or this is not of the same
quality or it's such an interest.
(26:05):
So he's like, fine, I'm going todo what I want, but I'll do it
as different people and you'll never know.
Very clever. I was.
Just yesterday was Calder's birthday.
Alexander Calder. And so I was watching a
documentary on Calder and he didn't call his works art, he
called them objects. This way he wouldn't have to
(26:28):
worry about defending whether it's art or not because he was
making these, you know, mobiles that were, you know, just the
whole, you know, breakthrough inthe sculptural arena.
So I thought it was great, you know, because he just, he didn't
want to bother having to defend himself.
And you know, the last thing an artist should do is worry.
(26:52):
Worry about defending himself, or even worse, judging
themselves. The artist should just be in
their studio, painting, paintingand painting or sculpting,
whatever they're doing, and thenjust move on.
How do you define the word artist?
What does that mean to you? Simply put, somebody who makes
(27:17):
art. Somebody.
Somebody who works with their hands.
And I like the Neil dying thing.Make art, Yeah.
Creative. You know.
I always like the word that Disney applies to their
creatives, that he calls them Imagineers.
Yes, they're imagining, you know, something that's never
(27:37):
been seen before. And so, yeah, somebody who
creates something. It's interesting.
Never existed before. The the difference of artists
should just create art because when people tell me they want to
write a book and I've written a lot of books, business books,
not imaginary books or you know,health and the different
(27:58):
categories, but not not that I say require a lot of
imagination. It's more like recall of things
I'm thinking about. But when people tell me they
want to write, I say, listen, you want to be a writer, write.
Just write everyday, allocate some time.
Say ideally you want to pick a time you know you have an hour,
(28:18):
but promise yourself you're going to do it for 10 minutes, 5
to 10 minutes. And if at the end of five to 10
minutes the page is blank or you're repeating the same
sentence, you know, close it up.But if you feel you're in that
flow, make sure you get to use that full hour and more if you
have it. But right don't edit, right?
(28:41):
Right, right. Editing is a different process
and you write as well. So do you think that's the same
with creating a painting? Yes, you know, there's times
that you do have to edit and youknow, you know, be that critic.
(29:02):
But it's it's not during the process, not during the dwende
moment, you know, you know, for instance, I created these three
large dip Dicks and you know, the canvas when it's stretched,
you know, it's not cheap. You know, you spend a few $1000
on, you know, 7 foot panels expensive.
(29:25):
Yeah, it's expensive. And you know, I created these
paintings and I'm just like, youknow, they're it's not there.
It's not what I'm looking for. I don't I'm not feeling it.
And so I folded them up, you know, put them away to the side
and forgot about him for about 6months.
And then when I look back at him, I'm like, you know, it's
(29:47):
not as bad as I originally thought, but I know now what I'm
going to do. And so, you know, a new day
brings a fresh eye and the fresheye can see things perhaps more
clearly than a, a tired eye, right?
So there's there's that. You know what's so funny?
You say that because the other couple few weeks, weekends ago,
(30:10):
we were with friends and they were like, you got to watch this
guy what he does and Long story short, bottom line, he building
this house in the middle of nowhere, but he paints at night
and they're like you got to see these paintings.
So I'm watching him and he's spending hours, you know,
they've time lapsed it, but he'shours just painting the canvas
(30:33):
black. So I'm like, OK, got that.
Then he starts painting things on it.
Next thing he's covering all theblack with orange and there's no
more black in the painting. And I was trying to, and then he
did this repeatedly in differentparts.
I'm like, I'm waiting for him totake his fingernail and like
(30:55):
scratch through on those things like they had as kids where
there would be all the layers and you scratched it.
Like what's going on with something like that from an
artistic mind? My opinion on that?
That he has no idea where he's going.
Or is he lingering on purpose orjust kind of letting it unfold,
(31:16):
saying, well, black looks good on this white canvas, but in a
minute it's going to be orange? All I can say is, you know, my
portals are about layering, you know, what you see on the
surface, whether it's people or painting and what goes on
underneath are always 2 separatethings.
And so the portal paintings, theunderpainting is that that raw
(31:43):
angst of the city. And what I'm always trying to do
is create the calming light on top of that.
It's it's like a yin and Yang, you know, chaos and and calming,
(32:03):
because having that duality is what makes things very
interesting. And that's why in life, when I
was pursuing my art career and when all these other things came
into play, you know, the curating, the writing, the
publishing, the marriage, the children, you know, I just saw
(32:29):
it as just more of life's experience that I knew would
eventually find their way into the painting.
It's like I feel like I had to live life first before I found,
(32:52):
you know, my style. I had to really go off and, and,
you know, experience all these things because it just made me a
better painter, a more understanding painter, less
judge mental one. Because in when I was young, I
was just a judge, mental, you know, moron if it wasn't what I
(33:13):
wanted or yeah, in the style of an old master, I, I wrote it off
and, you know, but I had to go through that process and, you
know, edit it out eventually. You know, you talked about the
angst of the city and I gravitate towards graffiti so,
(33:38):
and it must be genetic since it's gone down into.
But graffiti, when I pass a wall, if someone was to pick up
my phone, they'd go through and they'd say, you take a lot of
picture of stickers, like why are you always like those walls
where everyone's trying to get their their mark out in the
(33:58):
world, their ad, their yeah, mark making, you know, their
tag, as they call it in graffiti.
I now know you know but. You said angst of the city.
Where do you tie those two together?
(34:20):
One of my dear friends, his nameis Tag.
Is he a graffiti artist? He he he is a legendary OG from
the early 80s. OK.
In fact, he used to have these. I'm telling her son about this.
(34:40):
He would have chalkboard battleswith Keith Herring to see who
could, you know, scroll on more chalkboards in the MTA subway
systems. He's legendary.
He's tagged, you know, trains and buildings, you know, for the
last, you know, 50 years, 40 years.
And but he grew up on the Lower East Side and he saw his tags,
(35:07):
his graffiti writing as beautifying the neighborhood.
Now, when you grew up on the Lower East Side in the 70s and
80s, you know, there were a lot of vacant buildings.
People don't realize how horrible it was, how vacant it.
Was I just somebody recommended the movie Dinner with Andre?
(35:28):
Yes, which I had never seen. And I was trying as fast as I
could to take snap pictures of the subways, you know, in the
late 1970s, which I remember, you know, but most people would
say, no way, that's just a scene.
It did not look like. No the way the.
York is now at all. I missed that.
(35:51):
I think I've got some 70s punk in me I miss that.
I'd like. I mean, if there was one good
thing from that era is that rents were, you know, a hundred
200 bucks. And the artists from the time
never were concerned about leaving their loft or their
studio and going off to Europe for the summer because they knew
when they came back in the fall,there would be plenty of places
(36:12):
that they could still rent for nothing.
But you know, the tragic side ofthat was that how many artists
died of AIDS and heroin back then?
It was rampant in the East Village and Lower East Side and
and that's the neighborhood thateasy grew up in.
So that was, that was part of the angst, trying to survive
(36:35):
that, trying to avoid that and trying to find some beauty in
what was really an ugly neighborhood, you know, so.
It's still one of my favorite places to walk.
I mean, I love walking down justfor kicks when I take a long,
long walk. If I just want exercise, I go
from Hell's Kitchen. Where I mostly reside, you know,
(36:58):
this kind of area, and I'll walkover to Freeman's Alley just to
look at the graffiti and the stickers and say, yeah, what's
different this week? Yeah, no, it's it is magical.
It is beautiful and it is vibrant.
Yeah. And it's just filled with
energy. I mean, I'd be pissed off if you
did it to my building. If I owned a building and you
did it to my building. I don't, I don't like that kind
(37:19):
of, you know, graffiti. But if it's kind of one of those
public, I think scaffolding is free game even though it's owned
by someone, right? Right.
Don't quote me on that. Let's delete that.
No, not really. But no, it is, it's and it's,
it's also, I believe, a truly American art form.
(37:41):
Like it really, you know, was established in in the Bronx and
the outer boroughs, and it just became this worldwide
phenomenon. It's so funny, I remember first
coming into the city in like 7778 and I, you know, go around
and I remember looking for cost and Revs.
(38:02):
And to this day I remember the competition of who was going to
be tagging what. And you'd look and say, I don't
love the craziness of it. You know, when I see something
insane like how did they get up there?
That never makes me feel good. And I wish they wouldn't do
that, you know? Yeah, one of my friends broke
his back as he fell off one of those billboards.
(38:24):
Yeah, but it's you're right. It's such a New York thing
because I do have people who, you know, following stuff I do
from all over the world and they'll say, where did you take
that picture? What is that?
The beauty of New York. Yeah, there's a lot of
creativity here, you know, And can you, where do you find your
(38:48):
most, most of your inspiration comes from?
I never saw it as, you know, seeking inspiration.
That was always something that was just.
I felt inside within. Yeah.
Like, you know, I had since I'm a child.
(39:11):
There was no Plan B. It was just you're, you're a
painter. You're an artist.
And I believe in the power of art.
I believe in poetry. And I believe that art and
poetry have the power to change lives, to elevate, you know, the
senses and the, the, the, the spirit of each individual and
(39:37):
that it can really work for the better for humanity.
And that's why I've just always wanted to pursue that because it
was that was always just within.Now I look at certain artist and
I get energized, you know, you know, seeing great art makes me
(40:02):
want to just return to the studio and just keep painting
and keep going after you know what I'm working on and maybe
maybe alter it a little bit, youknow, because you're, you're
feeling all these awesome thingsaround you and you realize.
When you are in a city like New York, how much raw talent exist
(40:23):
everywhere? And so, you know, I'm always
going out seeing what's the latest shows and, you know.
Yeah, that's one of the things Ilove about New York.
Just seeing, you know, popping into a club it sometimes it's
four in the afternoon to see what band got the stage at 4:00
(40:45):
PM. You know, cuz the better bands
going on at midnight. But the club is set up that
starting at 3:30 or 4 you can get your slot and see if you can
get your crowd in and work your way up.
It's always fun. I wasn't old enough to go to the
mud club, you know, but it's. It's I'm older than you.
(41:08):
But one of my dear friends is the painter Judy Rifka, who in
the 70s and 80s was a God. You know, she was a rock star.
And, you know, Keith Haring usedto curate her work at the Mud
Club. And I wish if I could go back in
time, I would love to just be atthat place, in that venue to
see, you know, to feel the energy.
(41:30):
You know, we were talking about black and white earlier, you
know, and I think that's one of the reasons why Basquiat called
his band Gray Matter, because there's that whole area in
between that the real good stuffcan be found, you know, when the
when the 2 are together, that's.Yeah.
(41:54):
Magic. You know, you mentioned in your
bio I believe is where I read it, exploring maleness, the male
species today. What does that mean to you?
(42:16):
Again, that was something that someone else wrote because a lot
of my earlier paintings were self portraits and, you know,
more like in a. It's kind of like.
Erotics. Yeah.
Erotic. Because I'm available.
(42:37):
I I, you know, I didn't have to wait for a model to show up.
I could just, you know, paint myself.
And so I would use myself in a lot of the, you know, the
figurative paintings I did. And you know, my wife would be
like, you know, what are you trying to say you?
Know just like. I'm just trying to paint
something that no one's ever seen before, something
(42:58):
interesting. And so just exploring the human
figure, the female figure, and just trying to create a
narrative of, of something that's humane and fascinating
and, and not dull and boring because I never wanted to lead
a, a dull and boring life. But you know, it was when I
(43:27):
became a father though, and I had this, my first son, I
realized one day when he was looking for the remote and I
yelled, it's on top of the TV and he just like froze up and he
was only like two or three yearsold.
And I'm like, what I'm saying tomyself, what the hell am I
(43:49):
yelling at? This kid was just looking for
the remote, you know, And I, I realized then that.
We've all been there. The only people who haven't,
haven't been parents. Right, right.
And I just realized that I need to let this little light shine
on his own. And I I have to be mindful of my
(44:14):
very masculine. Dominance over.
Dominance figure. And so I did a few paintings
where, you know, my children aremaybe in a small rocking horse
and I'm on a, you know, real life horse.
Stallion. Yeah, Stallion.
And so there was that, you know,not so much masculine, but more
(44:37):
about being a father. Yes, and, and and allowing, you
know, this young child to flourish as I'm watching guard,
you know. On that note, do you believe
that art imitates life or life imitates art, Or is it a merger
(44:57):
of the two? Oh, 100% a merge of the two.
Because you know, I've, I've spent most of my life in a bar,
Mcsorley's Old Ale House down inthe East Village.
I've been drinking there since I'm thirteen years old, and if I
(45:20):
wrote half the things that I sawin there, you wouldn't believe
me. Or even anything that I've seen
in the East Village over the years.
What's fascinating is that, you know, as busy as we are, I can
bring two people, two different families to sit at the same
(45:44):
table and just coming in off thestreet.
Turns out they're from not just the same state, but the same
neighborhood and live around thecorner from each other.
Like if you write something likethat in a book, you'd be like,
no way. You know how many times people
have met their significant otherin the bar, You know, just by
(46:05):
chance encounter. You know, there there are
certain things in life that if you created art from it or a
movie, it would almost be too far fetched.
And yet life unravels as such. You know, my mother died on a
(46:26):
Saturday at 3:21 in the afternoon.
And because she played pick three and pick 4:00 every single
day of her, you know, senior life and she watched, you know,
Jeopardy at 7, the New York Lotto drawing, it's right in
(46:46):
between. And then wheel for I figured,
you know, that night I'd go to Saint Pat's.
I lit a few candles in her honor.
And then I, you know, went and bought some Lotto and played
321. And why didn't you know it, 321
pops up on, you know, the pick three that night.
And you know my $20 bet paid $12,000.
(47:07):
Oh my gosh. Like why does that happen?
Right, I believe in synchronicity.
Oh my God. And so life is fascinating and
there are those moments that I feel the universe is whispering
to you and you have to be willing to listen and be open to
(47:33):
believing. And when you are, magic happens.
You know, Gregory de la Haba, I could not have picked a better
way to wrap up this show than what you just said.
Well, thank you and. Unfortunately, we are at the end
of our show. That was really quick.
(47:54):
Oh my gosh, isn't it? I mean, this was a fantastic
conversation. I really appreciate your time.
Thank you so much, Diana. It was lovely being here.
And what a great ending. Good, yeah.
Hello everybody. I don't know if you watched
through this whole episode, but you're going to want to and
you're going to want to share itwith your friends.
I'm Diane Grissell. My guest today has been artist,
(48:17):
multimedia, multi dimensional, multifaceted artist Gregory de
la Haba. And you're going to be able to
find all his contact info below this.
Gregory, thank you so much for your time.
I really really enjoyed this. So did I, Yeah.
I wish we could do another hour.You know we may.
Just another day. You never know how life unfolds.
(48:39):
That's right. All the best to you.
Thank you. Thank you.
So thank you everybody. Again, we're at iconic Manhattan
center in TV Studio 2. Please subscribe to the podcast
Silver disobedience perception dynamics.
You can find it on every channel25 plus countries and growing
and also on YouTube and justice.Check it out and share it and
(49:00):
enjoy. We've got some really great
interviews happening and coming up, and this one is 1.
Your friends will absolutely want to watch.
Take care.
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