November 15, 2025 • 32 mins
Bree Aesie is the host of the "Into the Story Podcast" and is a communication coach.
Stephen talks to Bree about Canada in 2025; the fall of Justin Trudeau, the influence of Donald Trump, the unexpected results of the 2025 election, and the rise of Canadian nationalism.
Into the Story podcast : intostory.com
Stephen talks to Bree about Canada in 2025; the fall of Justin Trudeau, the influence of Donald Trump, the unexpected results of the 2025 election, and the rise of Canadian nationalism.
Into the Story podcast : intostory.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, this is Stephen Devinchenzie. Today I have another bonus
episode for you, different to our normal seven minute news updates.
In this episode, I'm talking to Bree Acey, who is
the host of the podcast Into the Story and is
a communication coach with over ten years of experience helping
(00:22):
international professionals master storytelling, public speaking, and clear communication in English.
Brie is from Canada, and I wanted her to tell
us about what has been quite an extraordinary year in Canada.
At the beginning of this year, in January twenty twenty five,
Canada's Conservative Party was highly expected to win the next
(00:45):
general election, with most opinion polls showing the Conservatives winning
between forty and forty five percent of votes and with
the governing Liberal Party expected to receive only twenty or
twenty five percent of votes. The lead that the Conservatives
had was so high that, as Brees says in this interview,
(01:07):
some organizations were already preparing for this change of government. However,
by the time the election took place three months later
in April, this lead had completely gone and the Liberals
actually won. I talked to Brie about how this happened.
The rise and fall of former Prime Minister Justin Trudeau,
(01:28):
the role that Donald Trump played in Canadian politics this year,
the threat felt by Canadians from the United States, an
increase in Canadian nationalism which was a consequence of the
attitude from the United States, the arrival of new Prime
Minister Mark Carney, and some more points about Canada more generally. Also,
(01:52):
before we start, I want to make a quick point
about the word liberal. This word can be a bit
confusing for a few different reasons. Firstly, in this conversation
we use the words liberal and conservative, both as descriptions
of political positions and also with capital letters, as the
(02:12):
names of the two main parties in Canada. But more importantly,
the feeling of the word liberal is different depending on
where it is used in the world. Generally, in the
English speaking world, liberal is more associated with left wing politics.
For example, in the United States, the Democratic Party is
(02:34):
generally considered more left wing than the Republican Party, which
is generally considered more right wing, and the Democrats are
more commonly described as liberals. This is the same in
the United Kingdom, where the Labour Party is more often
described as liberal than the Conservative Party. This is because
the word liberal without any other context generally refers to
(02:59):
social liberally in most English speaking countries. This is very
different to in Latin America, where the term liberal or
liberal generally refers to economic liberalism, which supports free market
capitalism and less government intervention. Because of this, in Latin
America and other parts of the world, liberal generally refers
(03:22):
to parties that are right wing. For example, the Argentinian
government of Jabier Milay is considered liberal despite also being
considered conservative. This podcast is free, but it is supported
by our amazing send seven supporters, who get access to
all of our transcripts, including this one, vocabulary lists, worksheets,
(03:44):
and world news quizzes. We also give ten percent of
our profit to the world's most effective charities. More information
at sendseven dot org. Now Here is pre I'm joined
by Brie. Thank you for joining me.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Thank you for having me. Steven, I'm really excited to
speak about today's topic.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Thanks. Let's start with your previous prime minister, Justin Trudeau.
So I remember Justin Trudeau. At the beginning of his
ten years or so, he was so popular and he
seemed very popular around the world to many many different
people for quite a few years, and then more recently,
(04:31):
it kind of tanks. It just went down the hill
really quickly. What happened?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Yeah, what did happen? That's a very good question. Justin
Trudeau when he was elected in twenty fifteen, was very,
very popular. He's the son of a previous prime minister
who was extremely popular. And if you haven't seen a
(04:59):
pa sure of Justin Trudeau, google it and you're going
to see a pretty face. And I think people Canadians
and also people around the world love to see a
young pretty face. I think his charisma and his looks
had a lot to do with it. And he also
(05:21):
has a way of speaking that he is like he
has a school boy optimism. So he has this a
way of speaking that is basically be the change you
want to see in the world kind of thing, and
I think at that time people loved that. So that's
how things started. That's the start of the fairy tale.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah, was he famous before he became prime minister because
of his dad? That kind of thing. I don't know
if you can remember that.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
I do not remember him being famous at all. I
am from West in Canada, so in Canada there's the
West and the East and were separated by this huge
expanse of land, and the people from the west are
quite separated from the east. So perhaps in the east
(06:15):
in his social circle, maybe he was popular, but he
was not someone that you would see in the news
or anything like that. I don't recall his past, Like
he was the son of a very popular prime minister,
then he became a teacher, then he did some other
(06:35):
type of work, but he wasn't a famous person. No,
not at all.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah. Do you think that the lack of popularity of
Justin Trudeau at the end of his time as Prime
minister and like over the last year or two, do
you think that was part of the reason that the
Conservatives were so far ahead in the pole, why the
Conservatives were so popular, you know, during twenty twenty four
(07:05):
and the beginning of twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Yeah, well, I mean it's it's as with anything political,
it's a really complicated picture. But let's just consider Justin
Trudeau's time in office. He went in in twenty fifteen.
Things were looking good, he was popular, everything seemed to
be working. But then slowly things changed and by the end,
(07:33):
I mean there was there had been COVID who's going
to survive that the economic downturn, no one's going to
survive that, and people just started getting really really tired
of him, even the liberals. So people on the right,
they apps a lot of them absolutely despise. They really
(07:56):
really disliked Justin Trudeau to a love of when they
would hear him speaking or even see his face, they
were like they would get what they would get the
eck they would get like, oh, you know, I can't
handle him, I can't stand him. They really started to
dislike him personally, and even some people on the left
(08:17):
felt like, oh, Justin just no, stop stop being so optimistic,
stop being so polished. People were ready for a change.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Right right, So do you think that that was the
main reason that the Conservatives were so far ahead in
twenty twenty four and then the beginning of twenty twenty
five that they were sick of Justin Trudeau. They just
wanted a complete change and they were just looking for
any other option, and the Conservatives were the main option. Yeah,
(08:50):
I suppose it could also be at this kind of
general worldwide trend of going against the kind of globally liberals,
which of which Justin Trudeau was was really the a
central figure you know, like I'm thinking of from that time,
(09:13):
the other kind of globalist globalist liberals like Germany's Angela Merkel,
maybe the UK's David Cameron, even though technically he was conservative,
but he was also seen as a kind of liberal
and globalist. Maybe Emmanuel mccrom is the only one that's
still there today. But do you think that there was
(09:35):
there was this kind of general push against this kind
of figure of the globalist liberals, and he, Justin Trudeau
was was a central character in that.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Yeah, I would. I would say what we see always
is that the pendulum swings, no matter what in Canada,
in the Uni States, you know, swings back from the
Democrats to the Republicans. In Canada, swings from the liberals
to the Conservatives, So that it was kind of time
(10:11):
for that anyway. But then adding to that, just and
Justin Trudeau being so disliked honestly had liberals running from him,
and I spoke to This is obviously completely anecdotal, but
I spoke to a few friends around the time of
(10:31):
COVID post COVID who I identified as completely liberals left
and they had run to the right, and they were
really in this moment of transition moving over to the
Conservative government and ready to vote a Conservative government. So
(10:52):
that was how things were looking that it was absolutely expected.
I have a friend who works in a human rights
organization and that is funded by the Canadian government. They
were getting ready fully for a new Conservative government, which
would have been huge changes in that specific organization. And
then things changed.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah, yeah, things changed. It seems like the pendulum swing
that you were talking about actually happened almost too quickly,
didn't it, Because it went it went to the Conservatives
for a period of time where there wasn't an election,
and then suddenly in the last two or three months
before before the election, it swang back completely. I was
(11:34):
just looking before we started talking, and in January of
this year and in February of this year, the Conservatives
were twenty points ahead, twenty five percentage points ahead of
the Liberals in election polling, in loads of election polls,
and then just over those two months up until the election,
(11:57):
which was on April twenty eighth, they lost it completely.
And then the Liberals. Yeah, the Liberals won only by
a little bit. It was only about three or four
percentage points, but still that was enough for them to
get all the many more seats than the Conservatives did
and win the election. So how did that happen? How
did the Conservatives go from being so far ahead to
(12:20):
losing it completely within the space of two or three months.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah, well, twenty twenty five was is has been a
very big year for Canada and Canadian politics and for
Canadian identity. And I would say that the spark, the
initial impetus of all of this was, of course the
trade war with the United States, and with the rhetoric,
(12:48):
with the comments being made by Donald Trump. So this
year started and into the spring with Donald Trump saying
a lot of really insane thing about Canada perhaps becoming
the fifty first state, about Canada being a great place
(13:11):
for fresh water, a great source of fresh water and wood,
and of course every Canadian would love to become an American.
And this absolutely terrified I think I can say most Canadians.
This is my opinion, but I haven't spoken to many
Canadians that were happy about this. And this sparked a
(13:36):
fierce patriotism in most Canadians that really made them or
made this issue of Canadian sovereignty and the trade war
a really central issue in the election. So what was
happening is that the Polieff who was to be the
(14:00):
Canadian Conservative Prime minister, the one who was running to
become the Canadian Conservative prime minister, he was getting kind
of close with Trump. He had a nickname for him,
I think it was Trump Would. He was clearly he
was clearly supporting what Trump was saying, and that terrified
(14:25):
the Conservative even the people supporting the Conservatives, And I
think ultimately he was being very foolish. He was being
a bit of a goof a bit silly, not understanding
that most Canadians were seeing this issue of Trump and
Canadian sovereignty as a really central issue. And honestly, a
(14:46):
lot of people ran from the Conservative Party, either back
to the Liberals or just away from the Conservatives, saying
this is the most important issue. We have to make
sure that this person doesn't lead Canada and lead Canada
into becoming a fifty first state. And that's, in my opinion,
the way things went.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
So Bri you're telling me you don't want Canada to
become the fifty first state of the United States of America.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
I do not. I do not want Canada to become
the fifty first state. And there has been I mean,
first of all, just to finish a little bit this
this conversation about what happened here, pauliev was some people
say being advised, had a campaign advisor that wasn't advising him. Well,
(15:36):
he wasn't taking things seriously. And then this other guy,
Carney was to Basically what happened is that Justin Trudeau
stepped down. He said, Okay, I am very unpopular and
I cannot lead the Liberal Party anymore because if I'm leading,
(16:00):
people don't like me, They're not going to elect the Liberals.
Carney stepped up. Okay, Carney has never been an MP.
He came He was a former Bank of Canada and
England advisor. He had a very strong financial background, economic background,
(16:21):
and he was seen as like a safe bet. So
he was serious. He was more centrist. Okay, he wasn't
really really far left. He was a bit more to
the center. He had the strong economic background. Canada, like
the rest of the world, was in an economic downturn,
and people said, okay, we can't vote Justin Trudeau, but
(16:42):
look at this guy, look at Carney. He's a safe bet.
And he became a very attractive idea and option for
a lot of Canadians.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Yeah, yeah, and I could see how maybe Canadians after
you know, the unpopularity of Justin True Rudeau and then
seeing this kind of threat from going with Poulievre, who
seems too close to Trump, and you know, people seeing
that as a limit on Canadian sovereignty, having the former
(17:14):
governor of the Bank of Canada and the Bank of England.
Having somebody who seems as a bit of a centrist
and very much a kind of technocrat, safe pair of
hands would be the kind of person that they would
want to vote for.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
I can get that, Yeah, yeah, And I can't stress
enough how unstable things felt in Canada at that time.
I don't live in Canada. I live in Spain, but
of course I follow Canadian politics. I speak with my
family and I have never lived through this much instability.
(17:48):
People were really scared. So Carneie projected this competence and
stability and this really key moment when Canadians were feeling
anxious and all they wanted was to feel safe. And
I think that Carney felt safe and poliev was being
a clown and he Canadians, even Canadian conservatives, are not
(18:11):
as right as American conservatives. So they needed to pull
something back to the center, and that is how the liberals,
I believe when the election, so Trump absolutely helped.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Yeah, yeah, it sounds like it. Do you think that
Canadians genuinely felt a threat from the United States and
what was that threat that they felt?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Well, And I think it's really difficult for people outside
of Canada and not understanding the dynamic between Canadians and
people from the United States can really understand. I think
being here in Europe, I'm sure you in the UK.
From afar, it looks like, Okay, Donald Trump is obviously
(18:57):
totally crazy, like he can't take over Canada. That's silly.
But for Canadians, we don't really have a military. We
are the little brother of the United States. If some
crazy guy takes control of the United States and says
we want to take Canada because they have fresh water
and they have lumber, and we are going to put
(19:20):
so many tariffs that we will bleed them dry. We
will basically make sure they have no money left and
they won't be able to fight it. So Canadians were
absolutely afraid. Every single Canadian I spoke to during that
time almost didn't want to talk about it. It was
that real. That is how real the fear was.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Yeah. Yeah, then that really does explain the dramatic two
months shift because it really happened straight after Trump became
presidents again in February. That serves it now January of
this year. The way that the Conservatives lost their lead
and the Liberals came back up. Just to use a
(20:07):
Canadian expression, just like a hockey stick, you know, we've
got that like long, long curve going down and then
suddenly a tick back up to the top. Yeah, it
all happened just after Trump became presidents. Well, there was
just two months between Trump becoming president and the Canadian election.
(20:34):
I've even heard that there have been people boycotting the
United States. Now have you heard of people doing that?
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah? This is I mean, of course, there is no
official formal national boycott of the United States, but there
is a very clear emotional shift that is Canada for
And this has never really been something I've seen in
(21:06):
my lifetime. So this is definitely the first time in
my lifetime that I see this rediscovery of Canadian identity
and independence. And that's a really clear word, this idea
of independence. Since I'm a millennial, my whole entire lifetime.
It's been about this, basically, this agreement, this relationship between
(21:28):
Canada and the United States. We are a friendly figure
on the world stage, and this was the first time
we felt like we had we have felt like we
have to really defend and support Canada. In every single supermarket,
now you will see made in Canada, whereas that was
never a thing before. And there are certain grocery stores
(21:49):
that were also not importing certain products from the United
States anymore and getting it from further away just to
not support the United States. And in cafes, there are
even certain cafes that are calling it a Canadiano and
state of an Americano, which of course so there. I mean,
(22:12):
these are silly examples. Perhaps they sound silly, but for
Canadians they're not, and it is a really big shift
in Canadian identity, I would say.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Yeah, yeah. And I've also heard that there's just less
tourism from Canada going to the United States, less people
booking flights from Canada to the United States and things
like that. So it's quite a far reaching boycott, even
though if it's not you know, official.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yeah, I mean, I don't know the actual numbers but
I have two sisters. One lives in Canada, the other
one lives in the United States. And my mom went
down to visit her right in the middle of all
of this, and she said probably fifty percent of the
people that she would say I'm Canadian, they would say, oh,
we're so sorry, sorry, We're so sorry about what's happening.
(23:03):
You know, like even Conservatives, even Republicans felt badly that
all of this was going on. But yeah, there's definitely
less Canadians wanting to travel to the United States right now.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Okay, well, speaking of the Conservatives again, we should say
that even though obviously the Conservatives lost big in this election,
what they've really lost was a twenty to twenty five
point lead. They went all the way down to coming second,
losing the election. But actually they still got a lot
(23:38):
of votes. I think the Liberal Party got forty three
forty four percent of votes, but the Liberal sorry, but
the Conservatives still got forty one. So it's still almost
as many votes as the Liberals did. So if almost half, say,
(23:59):
four out of ten Canadians were still voting for the
Conservative Party despite all of these problems with the United
States at that time, what do you think was motivating them.
Was it still just this idea that they didn't like
Justin Trudeau and his version of liberalism and things like that,
(24:23):
or what else was motivating this pretty big group of
people voting for the Conservatives.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Yeah, that's a very good question, and thank you for
pointing that out. That you know, it's basically half of
the country is conservative and I come from a province.
I come from Alberta, a province in the west of
Canada that is definitely more conservative. I can say it myself.
I am socially liberal. I have voted left for the
(24:56):
most part of my life, but I have a really
mixed social circle and family, so I'm very very familiar
with the right and I do agree with certain things
on the right. So for people on the right, their
point of view is that the liberal government, Trudeau's government specifically,
really took the country into debt and into really far
(25:22):
left ideology for ten years. And it's also clear that
the public opinion of him wasn't just to do with
his way of being and that people were sick of
seeing his face and hearing his voice. But there were
also a lot of scandals, real scandals. There was one
it's called we Charity. There's another example during COVID, or
(25:46):
towards the end of COVID, there was an app called
Arrive can Everyone who came into Canada, even myself at
that time, we had to sign up basically saying we
were coming into to Canada giving our vaccine cards. All
of this this app cost something like fifty six million, okay.
So it was a sign of completely mismanagement and waste
(26:09):
through biocracy and just a mismanagement of public fund So
people were tired of him wasting money and taking people
too far to the left. So a lot of people
just were sick of it and they were ready for
something different and specifically more of the financial policies that
(26:31):
you see more from a conservative government definitely and continue
to be a main driver of people wanting the Liberals out.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Okay, Well, and speaking of going for a change, Justin
Trudeau and Katy Perry now about apparently is a thing?
Is it a nice fun ends to the story, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Oh? Justin Justin Trudeau and Katie Perry are I think
they've made it official they are dating.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Yeah. I think they've been kissing in public, So I
think that essentially makes it official.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
I can say that speaking with friends and family from
both sides of the political spectrum. On the left, people
are thinking like, oh, Justin, you're pretty silly thing, like
you just continue with your antics and your colorful life.
(27:31):
They're a little bit perhaps annoyed, but it's more like, ah, okay,
you go do you, Justin Trudeau? You go date American celebrities,
whereas people on the right are much more irritated. They
are saying, or probably feeling, this is my opinion, Okay,
you've sunk us into this recession, you've destroyed the country,
(27:54):
and now you're off dating an American rock star. Of
course you are.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
There, we go. Well, I think that that is the
first time that this podcast has ever covered celebrity gossip,
but it's the first time for everything, isn't there.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Well? I hope that gives you a better view of
Canadian politics. Do you think do you think you have
a better feeling for it now, Stephen?
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Yeah, yeah, I think so. It's it was really remarkable
to see that swing, and as we know, with all
kinds of pendulum swings, it can easily go back the
other way, especially when the result of this election effectively.
Although it was surprising. It was also very close, so
(28:38):
it wouldn't take much for the Conservatives to win the
next election. But hey, yeah, that's four or five years away.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
So yeah, I mean the rights the right basically says
that Liberals scared Canadians in devoting for them. The left
says that they saved Canada from Trump's style populism. But
the truth is always is somewhere in between. Yeah, Carnie
arrived at the perfect moment when people wanted change in safety,
(29:06):
and we'll see what happens. It will be interesting to
see what happens in four years from now.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
It certainly will.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
And although I think it is safe to say that
Trump probably did help the Liberals win this election. Yes, yeah, Okay, Well,
do you want to tell us some of your favorite
places in Canada before we hop off?
Speaker 2 (29:30):
I would love to. I One of my favorite places
in the whole world, not just in Canada, is North
Vancouver Island, so West coast. You get to Vancouver, you
get on a ferry, you get to a big island,
you drive five hours north and you get to one
of the most beautiful places in the world. It's temperate rainforest,
(29:52):
there is waves for surfing, it's absolutely stunning, So that
would probably be my favorite my favorite place, of course,
what was the name of that place yet to Fino
t f i n oh, tiny little fishing village turned
surfer town. And also in the Rocky Mountains. So I'm
(30:13):
from Calgary, which is just from the West coast back
over the Rocky Mountains, and it's about an hour and
a half drive from some of the most beautiful skiing
and snowboarding in the world. Just what I appreciate so
much about Canada and compared to living in Spain in Catalunya,
(30:35):
which is also very very beautiful, is the concept of
space and wilderness and nature in Canada. It's just so
massive and immense. So Canada is definitely a place I
think people should put on their list of places to visit.
It's it's very stunning, fantastic.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah, yeah, it sounds beautiful. Do you want to tell
us about your podcast or anything else you'd like to
tell us?
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Up? Yeah, absolutely. My podcast is called Into the Story,
and I bring on people from all over the world,
ordinary and extraordinary to tell stories of change and transformation
in their lives. You were on the podcast a story
that I love.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Mine was the ordinary one rather the extraordinary one.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
No, it was extraordinary for sure. But more broadly, my
work and the work that I do. I work with
international teams to help them with public speaking and storytelling
and speaking with more impact in the workplace. So that's
what is keeping me very busy these days. But I
will be back to the podcast in the next month
(31:43):
to publish the next season, so I'm looking forward to that.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Excellent And if people want to find you, they can
look for Into the Story podcast or anything else.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
They can find me on LinkedIn with my name Breac A.
S E. Or the website is just Into a Story,
but yeah, they can find me all over the place.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Well, Brie, thank you very much for joining me.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Thank you so much for having me Stephen. I'm always
happy for an excuse to talk about Canada.
Hi, this is Stephen Devinchenzie. Today I have another bonus
episode for you, different to our normal seven minute news updates.
In this episode, I'm talking to Bree Acey, who is
the host of the podcast Into the Story and is
a communication coach with over ten years of experience helping
(00:22):
international professionals master storytelling, public speaking, and clear communication in English.
Brie is from Canada, and I wanted her to tell
us about what has been quite an extraordinary year in Canada.
At the beginning of this year, in January twenty twenty five,
Canada's Conservative Party was highly expected to win the next
(00:45):
general election, with most opinion polls showing the Conservatives winning
between forty and forty five percent of votes and with
the governing Liberal Party expected to receive only twenty or
twenty five percent of votes. The lead that the Conservatives
had was so high that, as Brees says in this interview,
(01:07):
some organizations were already preparing for this change of government. However,
by the time the election took place three months later
in April, this lead had completely gone and the Liberals
actually won. I talked to Brie about how this happened.
The rise and fall of former Prime Minister Justin Trudeau,
(01:28):
the role that Donald Trump played in Canadian politics this year,
the threat felt by Canadians from the United States, an
increase in Canadian nationalism which was a consequence of the
attitude from the United States, the arrival of new Prime
Minister Mark Carney, and some more points about Canada more generally. Also,
(01:52):
before we start, I want to make a quick point
about the word liberal. This word can be a bit
confusing for a few different reasons. Firstly, in this conversation
we use the words liberal and conservative, both as descriptions
of political positions and also with capital letters, as the
(02:12):
names of the two main parties in Canada. But more importantly,
the feeling of the word liberal is different depending on
where it is used in the world. Generally, in the
English speaking world, liberal is more associated with left wing politics.
For example, in the United States, the Democratic Party is
(02:34):
generally considered more left wing than the Republican Party, which
is generally considered more right wing, and the Democrats are
more commonly described as liberals. This is the same in
the United Kingdom, where the Labour Party is more often
described as liberal than the Conservative Party. This is because
the word liberal without any other context generally refers to
(02:59):
social liberally in most English speaking countries. This is very
different to in Latin America, where the term liberal or
liberal generally refers to economic liberalism, which supports free market
capitalism and less government intervention. Because of this, in Latin
America and other parts of the world, liberal generally refers
(03:22):
to parties that are right wing. For example, the Argentinian
government of Jabier Milay is considered liberal despite also being
considered conservative. This podcast is free, but it is supported
by our amazing send seven supporters, who get access to
all of our transcripts, including this one, vocabulary lists, worksheets,
(03:44):
and world news quizzes. We also give ten percent of
our profit to the world's most effective charities. More information
at sendseven dot org. Now Here is pre I'm joined
by Brie. Thank you for joining me.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Thank you for having me. Steven, I'm really excited to
speak about today's topic.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Thanks. Let's start with your previous prime minister, Justin Trudeau.
So I remember Justin Trudeau. At the beginning of his
ten years or so, he was so popular and he
seemed very popular around the world to many many different
people for quite a few years, and then more recently,
(04:31):
it kind of tanks. It just went down the hill
really quickly. What happened?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Yeah, what did happen? That's a very good question. Justin
Trudeau when he was elected in twenty fifteen, was very,
very popular. He's the son of a previous prime minister
who was extremely popular. And if you haven't seen a
(04:59):
pa sure of Justin Trudeau, google it and you're going
to see a pretty face. And I think people Canadians
and also people around the world love to see a
young pretty face. I think his charisma and his looks
had a lot to do with it. And he also
(05:21):
has a way of speaking that he is like he
has a school boy optimism. So he has this a
way of speaking that is basically be the change you
want to see in the world kind of thing, and
I think at that time people loved that. So that's
how things started. That's the start of the fairy tale.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah, was he famous before he became prime minister because
of his dad? That kind of thing. I don't know
if you can remember that.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
I do not remember him being famous at all. I
am from West in Canada, so in Canada there's the
West and the East and were separated by this huge
expanse of land, and the people from the west are
quite separated from the east. So perhaps in the east
(06:15):
in his social circle, maybe he was popular, but he
was not someone that you would see in the news
or anything like that. I don't recall his past, Like
he was the son of a very popular prime minister,
then he became a teacher, then he did some other
(06:35):
type of work, but he wasn't a famous person. No,
not at all.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah. Do you think that the lack of popularity of
Justin Trudeau at the end of his time as Prime
minister and like over the last year or two, do
you think that was part of the reason that the
Conservatives were so far ahead in the pole, why the
Conservatives were so popular, you know, during twenty twenty four
(07:05):
and the beginning of twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Yeah, well, I mean it's it's as with anything political,
it's a really complicated picture. But let's just consider Justin
Trudeau's time in office. He went in in twenty fifteen.
Things were looking good, he was popular, everything seemed to
be working. But then slowly things changed and by the end,
(07:33):
I mean there was there had been COVID who's going
to survive that the economic downturn, no one's going to
survive that, and people just started getting really really tired
of him, even the liberals. So people on the right,
they apps a lot of them absolutely despise. They really
(07:56):
really disliked Justin Trudeau to a love of when they
would hear him speaking or even see his face, they
were like they would get what they would get the
eck they would get like, oh, you know, I can't
handle him, I can't stand him. They really started to
dislike him personally, and even some people on the left
(08:17):
felt like, oh, Justin just no, stop stop being so optimistic,
stop being so polished. People were ready for a change.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Right right, So do you think that that was the
main reason that the Conservatives were so far ahead in
twenty twenty four and then the beginning of twenty twenty
five that they were sick of Justin Trudeau. They just
wanted a complete change and they were just looking for
any other option, and the Conservatives were the main option. Yeah,
(08:50):
I suppose it could also be at this kind of
general worldwide trend of going against the kind of globally liberals,
which of which Justin Trudeau was was really the a
central figure you know, like I'm thinking of from that time,
(09:13):
the other kind of globalist globalist liberals like Germany's Angela Merkel,
maybe the UK's David Cameron, even though technically he was conservative,
but he was also seen as a kind of liberal
and globalist. Maybe Emmanuel mccrom is the only one that's
still there today. But do you think that there was
(09:35):
there was this kind of general push against this kind
of figure of the globalist liberals, and he, Justin Trudeau
was was a central character in that.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Yeah, I would. I would say what we see always
is that the pendulum swings, no matter what in Canada,
in the Uni States, you know, swings back from the
Democrats to the Republicans. In Canada, swings from the liberals
to the Conservatives, So that it was kind of time
(10:11):
for that anyway. But then adding to that, just and
Justin Trudeau being so disliked honestly had liberals running from him,
and I spoke to This is obviously completely anecdotal, but
I spoke to a few friends around the time of
(10:31):
COVID post COVID who I identified as completely liberals left
and they had run to the right, and they were
really in this moment of transition moving over to the
Conservative government and ready to vote a Conservative government. So
(10:52):
that was how things were looking that it was absolutely expected.
I have a friend who works in a human rights
organization and that is funded by the Canadian government. They
were getting ready fully for a new Conservative government, which
would have been huge changes in that specific organization. And
then things changed.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah, yeah, things changed. It seems like the pendulum swing
that you were talking about actually happened almost too quickly,
didn't it, Because it went it went to the Conservatives
for a period of time where there wasn't an election,
and then suddenly in the last two or three months
before before the election, it swang back completely. I was
(11:34):
just looking before we started talking, and in January of
this year and in February of this year, the Conservatives
were twenty points ahead, twenty five percentage points ahead of
the Liberals in election polling, in loads of election polls,
and then just over those two months up until the election,
(11:57):
which was on April twenty eighth, they lost it completely.
And then the Liberals. Yeah, the Liberals won only by
a little bit. It was only about three or four
percentage points, but still that was enough for them to
get all the many more seats than the Conservatives did
and win the election. So how did that happen? How
did the Conservatives go from being so far ahead to
(12:20):
losing it completely within the space of two or three months.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah, well, twenty twenty five was is has been a
very big year for Canada and Canadian politics and for
Canadian identity. And I would say that the spark, the
initial impetus of all of this was, of course the
trade war with the United States, and with the rhetoric,
(12:48):
with the comments being made by Donald Trump. So this
year started and into the spring with Donald Trump saying
a lot of really insane thing about Canada perhaps becoming
the fifty first state, about Canada being a great place
(13:11):
for fresh water, a great source of fresh water and wood,
and of course every Canadian would love to become an American.
And this absolutely terrified I think I can say most Canadians.
This is my opinion, but I haven't spoken to many
Canadians that were happy about this. And this sparked a
(13:36):
fierce patriotism in most Canadians that really made them or
made this issue of Canadian sovereignty and the trade war
a really central issue in the election. So what was
happening is that the Polieff who was to be the
(14:00):
Canadian Conservative Prime minister, the one who was running to
become the Canadian Conservative prime minister, he was getting kind
of close with Trump. He had a nickname for him,
I think it was Trump Would. He was clearly he
was clearly supporting what Trump was saying, and that terrified
(14:25):
the Conservative even the people supporting the Conservatives, And I
think ultimately he was being very foolish. He was being
a bit of a goof a bit silly, not understanding
that most Canadians were seeing this issue of Trump and
Canadian sovereignty as a really central issue. And honestly, a
(14:46):
lot of people ran from the Conservative Party, either back
to the Liberals or just away from the Conservatives, saying
this is the most important issue. We have to make
sure that this person doesn't lead Canada and lead Canada
into becoming a fifty first state. And that's, in my opinion,
the way things went.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
So Bri you're telling me you don't want Canada to
become the fifty first state of the United States of America.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
I do not. I do not want Canada to become
the fifty first state. And there has been I mean,
first of all, just to finish a little bit this
this conversation about what happened here, pauliev was some people
say being advised, had a campaign advisor that wasn't advising him. Well,
(15:36):
he wasn't taking things seriously. And then this other guy,
Carney was to Basically what happened is that Justin Trudeau
stepped down. He said, Okay, I am very unpopular and
I cannot lead the Liberal Party anymore because if I'm leading,
(16:00):
people don't like me, They're not going to elect the Liberals.
Carney stepped up. Okay, Carney has never been an MP.
He came He was a former Bank of Canada and
England advisor. He had a very strong financial background, economic background,
(16:21):
and he was seen as like a safe bet. So
he was serious. He was more centrist. Okay, he wasn't
really really far left. He was a bit more to
the center. He had the strong economic background. Canada, like
the rest of the world, was in an economic downturn,
and people said, okay, we can't vote Justin Trudeau, but
(16:42):
look at this guy, look at Carney. He's a safe bet.
And he became a very attractive idea and option for
a lot of Canadians.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Yeah, yeah, and I could see how maybe Canadians after
you know, the unpopularity of Justin True Rudeau and then
seeing this kind of threat from going with Poulievre, who
seems too close to Trump, and you know, people seeing
that as a limit on Canadian sovereignty, having the former
(17:14):
governor of the Bank of Canada and the Bank of England.
Having somebody who seems as a bit of a centrist
and very much a kind of technocrat, safe pair of
hands would be the kind of person that they would
want to vote for.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
I can get that, Yeah, yeah, And I can't stress
enough how unstable things felt in Canada at that time.
I don't live in Canada. I live in Spain, but
of course I follow Canadian politics. I speak with my
family and I have never lived through this much instability.
(17:48):
People were really scared. So Carneie projected this competence and
stability and this really key moment when Canadians were feeling
anxious and all they wanted was to feel safe. And
I think that Carney felt safe and poliev was being
a clown and he Canadians, even Canadian conservatives, are not
(18:11):
as right as American conservatives. So they needed to pull
something back to the center, and that is how the liberals,
I believe when the election, so Trump absolutely helped.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Yeah, yeah, it sounds like it. Do you think that
Canadians genuinely felt a threat from the United States and
what was that threat that they felt?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Well, And I think it's really difficult for people outside
of Canada and not understanding the dynamic between Canadians and
people from the United States can really understand. I think
being here in Europe, I'm sure you in the UK.
From afar, it looks like, Okay, Donald Trump is obviously
(18:57):
totally crazy, like he can't take over Canada. That's silly.
But for Canadians, we don't really have a military. We
are the little brother of the United States. If some
crazy guy takes control of the United States and says
we want to take Canada because they have fresh water
and they have lumber, and we are going to put
(19:20):
so many tariffs that we will bleed them dry. We
will basically make sure they have no money left and
they won't be able to fight it. So Canadians were
absolutely afraid. Every single Canadian I spoke to during that
time almost didn't want to talk about it. It was
that real. That is how real the fear was.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Yeah. Yeah, then that really does explain the dramatic two
months shift because it really happened straight after Trump became
presidents again in February. That serves it now January of
this year. The way that the Conservatives lost their lead
and the Liberals came back up. Just to use a
(20:07):
Canadian expression, just like a hockey stick, you know, we've
got that like long, long curve going down and then
suddenly a tick back up to the top. Yeah, it
all happened just after Trump became presidents. Well, there was
just two months between Trump becoming president and the Canadian election.
(20:34):
I've even heard that there have been people boycotting the
United States. Now have you heard of people doing that?
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah? This is I mean, of course, there is no
official formal national boycott of the United States, but there
is a very clear emotional shift that is Canada for
And this has never really been something I've seen in
(21:06):
my lifetime. So this is definitely the first time in
my lifetime that I see this rediscovery of Canadian identity
and independence. And that's a really clear word, this idea
of independence. Since I'm a millennial, my whole entire lifetime.
It's been about this, basically, this agreement, this relationship between
(21:28):
Canada and the United States. We are a friendly figure
on the world stage, and this was the first time
we felt like we had we have felt like we
have to really defend and support Canada. In every single supermarket,
now you will see made in Canada, whereas that was
never a thing before. And there are certain grocery stores
(21:49):
that were also not importing certain products from the United
States anymore and getting it from further away just to
not support the United States. And in cafes, there are
even certain cafes that are calling it a Canadiano and
state of an Americano, which of course so there. I mean,
(22:12):
these are silly examples. Perhaps they sound silly, but for
Canadians they're not, and it is a really big shift
in Canadian identity, I would say.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Yeah, yeah. And I've also heard that there's just less
tourism from Canada going to the United States, less people
booking flights from Canada to the United States and things
like that. So it's quite a far reaching boycott, even
though if it's not you know, official.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yeah, I mean, I don't know the actual numbers but
I have two sisters. One lives in Canada, the other
one lives in the United States. And my mom went
down to visit her right in the middle of all
of this, and she said probably fifty percent of the
people that she would say I'm Canadian, they would say, oh,
we're so sorry, sorry, We're so sorry about what's happening.
(23:03):
You know, like even Conservatives, even Republicans felt badly that
all of this was going on. But yeah, there's definitely
less Canadians wanting to travel to the United States right now.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Okay, well, speaking of the Conservatives again, we should say
that even though obviously the Conservatives lost big in this election,
what they've really lost was a twenty to twenty five
point lead. They went all the way down to coming second,
losing the election. But actually they still got a lot
(23:38):
of votes. I think the Liberal Party got forty three
forty four percent of votes, but the Liberal sorry, but
the Conservatives still got forty one. So it's still almost
as many votes as the Liberals did. So if almost half, say,
(23:59):
four out of ten Canadians were still voting for the
Conservative Party despite all of these problems with the United
States at that time, what do you think was motivating them.
Was it still just this idea that they didn't like
Justin Trudeau and his version of liberalism and things like that,
(24:23):
or what else was motivating this pretty big group of
people voting for the Conservatives.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Yeah, that's a very good question, and thank you for
pointing that out. That you know, it's basically half of
the country is conservative and I come from a province.
I come from Alberta, a province in the west of
Canada that is definitely more conservative. I can say it myself.
I am socially liberal. I have voted left for the
(24:56):
most part of my life, but I have a really
mixed social circle and family, so I'm very very familiar
with the right and I do agree with certain things
on the right. So for people on the right, their
point of view is that the liberal government, Trudeau's government specifically,
really took the country into debt and into really far
(25:22):
left ideology for ten years. And it's also clear that
the public opinion of him wasn't just to do with
his way of being and that people were sick of
seeing his face and hearing his voice. But there were
also a lot of scandals, real scandals. There was one
it's called we Charity. There's another example during COVID, or
(25:46):
towards the end of COVID, there was an app called
Arrive can Everyone who came into Canada, even myself at
that time, we had to sign up basically saying we
were coming into to Canada giving our vaccine cards. All
of this this app cost something like fifty six million, okay.
So it was a sign of completely mismanagement and waste
(26:09):
through biocracy and just a mismanagement of public fund So
people were tired of him wasting money and taking people
too far to the left. So a lot of people
just were sick of it and they were ready for
something different and specifically more of the financial policies that
(26:31):
you see more from a conservative government definitely and continue
to be a main driver of people wanting the Liberals out.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Okay, Well, and speaking of going for a change, Justin
Trudeau and Katy Perry now about apparently is a thing?
Is it a nice fun ends to the story, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Oh? Justin Justin Trudeau and Katie Perry are I think
they've made it official they are dating.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Yeah. I think they've been kissing in public, So I
think that essentially makes it official.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
I can say that speaking with friends and family from
both sides of the political spectrum. On the left, people
are thinking like, oh, Justin, you're pretty silly thing, like
you just continue with your antics and your colorful life.
(27:31):
They're a little bit perhaps annoyed, but it's more like, ah, okay,
you go do you, Justin Trudeau? You go date American celebrities,
whereas people on the right are much more irritated. They
are saying, or probably feeling, this is my opinion, Okay,
you've sunk us into this recession, you've destroyed the country,
(27:54):
and now you're off dating an American rock star. Of
course you are.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
There, we go. Well, I think that that is the
first time that this podcast has ever covered celebrity gossip,
but it's the first time for everything, isn't there.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Well? I hope that gives you a better view of
Canadian politics. Do you think do you think you have
a better feeling for it now, Stephen?
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Yeah, yeah, I think so. It's it was really remarkable
to see that swing, and as we know, with all
kinds of pendulum swings, it can easily go back the
other way, especially when the result of this election effectively.
Although it was surprising. It was also very close, so
(28:38):
it wouldn't take much for the Conservatives to win the
next election. But hey, yeah, that's four or five years away.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
So yeah, I mean the rights the right basically says
that Liberals scared Canadians in devoting for them. The left
says that they saved Canada from Trump's style populism. But
the truth is always is somewhere in between. Yeah, Carnie
arrived at the perfect moment when people wanted change in safety,
(29:06):
and we'll see what happens. It will be interesting to
see what happens in four years from now.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
It certainly will.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
And although I think it is safe to say that
Trump probably did help the Liberals win this election. Yes, yeah, Okay, Well,
do you want to tell us some of your favorite
places in Canada before we hop off?
Speaker 2 (29:30):
I would love to. I One of my favorite places
in the whole world, not just in Canada, is North
Vancouver Island, so West coast. You get to Vancouver, you
get on a ferry, you get to a big island,
you drive five hours north and you get to one
of the most beautiful places in the world. It's temperate rainforest,
(29:52):
there is waves for surfing, it's absolutely stunning, So that
would probably be my favorite my favorite place, of course,
what was the name of that place yet to Fino
t f i n oh, tiny little fishing village turned
surfer town. And also in the Rocky Mountains. So I'm
(30:13):
from Calgary, which is just from the West coast back
over the Rocky Mountains, and it's about an hour and
a half drive from some of the most beautiful skiing
and snowboarding in the world. Just what I appreciate so
much about Canada and compared to living in Spain in Catalunya,
(30:35):
which is also very very beautiful, is the concept of
space and wilderness and nature in Canada. It's just so
massive and immense. So Canada is definitely a place I
think people should put on their list of places to visit.
It's it's very stunning, fantastic.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah, yeah, it sounds beautiful. Do you want to tell
us about your podcast or anything else you'd like to
tell us?
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Up? Yeah, absolutely. My podcast is called Into the Story,
and I bring on people from all over the world,
ordinary and extraordinary to tell stories of change and transformation
in their lives. You were on the podcast a story
that I love.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Mine was the ordinary one rather the extraordinary one.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
No, it was extraordinary for sure. But more broadly, my
work and the work that I do. I work with
international teams to help them with public speaking and storytelling
and speaking with more impact in the workplace. So that's
what is keeping me very busy these days. But I
will be back to the podcast in the next month
(31:43):
to publish the next season, so I'm looking forward to that.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Excellent And if people want to find you, they can
look for Into the Story podcast or anything else.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
They can find me on LinkedIn with my name Breac A.
S E. Or the website is just Into a Story,
but yeah, they can find me all over the place.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Well, Brie, thank you very much for joining me.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Thank you so much for having me Stephen. I'm always
happy for an excuse to talk about Canada.
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