August 27, 2025 • 44 mins
Carolyn K. Haeler shares her journey from a life-changing celiac diagnosis to creating Mightylicious, a brand revolutionizing gluten-free baked goods with products so delicious even people without dietary restrictions choose them.
• Diagnosed with celiac disease at 31 after months of deteriorating health
• Discovered that gluten is not just in obvious foods but used as preservative, filler, and coloring in countless products
• Created Mightylicious after a disappointing experience with a store-bought gluten-free cookie
• Spent three months developing recipes, baking thousands of test cookies
• Walked into Whole Foods for feedback, walked out with an opportunity to sell her cookies
• Uses rice flour milled to exact specifications to eliminate the grittiness common in gluten-free products
• Named the brand Mightylicious to create a fun, positive image instead of clinical packaging common in gluten-free products
• Created Charlie the non-binary unicorn as a mascot that appeals to diverse audiences
• Financed her business through credit cards, small business loans, and eventually raised $5 million through crowdfunding
• Recently expanded product line to include specialized flour blends and brownies
• Products available in Kroger, Walmart, and natural food stores across the country
Visit mightylicious.com to order products shipped to all 50 states (free shipping on orders of 3+ bags) or find them on Amazon and in retailers nationwide. Use promo code MIGHTYHOLIDAY for 20% off on Amazon.
Thank you for listening. Please subscribe to this podcast and share with a friend. If you would like to know more about my services, please message at fueledbyleo@gmail.com
My YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0SqBP44jMNYSzlcJjOKJdg
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, hey, everyone.
Welcome back to SimpleNutrition Insights.
I'm your host, Leonila Campos,registered dietitian, wellness
advocate and your partner inmaking nutrition simple and
sustainable.
Today, I have a truly inspiringguest joining me, Carolyn K
Haler, the creative force behindmy Gluten-Free, a brand known
(00:21):
for its uncompromisinglydelicious gluten-free baked
goods.
Carolyn's story is not onlyrooted in entrepreneurship and
innovation, but also in personalpassion and purpose.
Whether you're gluten-free bychoice or necessity, or just
love a great cookie, thisepisode is for you, Carolyn.
Welcome to the show.
(00:42):
Let's start with the heart ofyour journey.
What inspired you to createMightylicious?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, so I started Mightylicious in 2017.
That was actually after fiveyears of living with a celiac
disease diagnosis.
I was diagnosed with celiacdisease in 2012, when I was 31
years old, so prior to that, Ihad lived a gluten-full life.
I didn't have any dietaryrestrictions.
(01:08):
I didn't have any allergies oranything.
I've always been a very healthyperson.
I really love fish, I reallylove salad and fruit those are
like my three but I also eatlots of other things like cake
and pasta and pizza and all ofthose things bagels.
I'm a New Yorker.
Around in 2012, I guess itstarted in 2011,.
I just started getting someindigestion, which wasn't a big
(01:30):
deal, but it was annoying enoughthat I was talking to my GP
about it because it wassomething that I'd never had
before and over the course ofthe following nine months, my
immune system started to fail.
By the time I was diagnosed, myhair was falling out, my skin
had turned gray, my stomach wasdistended it wasn't just bloated
, it was like physicallydistended and I was in a
(01:53):
tremendous amount of physicalpain.
I'd also just moved toManhattan, New York, and I had
just started in a brand new jobdown on Wall Street and I mean
physically on Wall Street, notjust in finance.
I was actually taking a trainevery day downtown to the
financial district and worked onWall Street and all of that is
overwhelming by itself.
And I was going through all ofthis pain and I got to the point
(02:16):
where my doctors you know I wasworking with specialists we'd
done blood tests, we'd doneelimination diets, we'd done all
sorts of different things andeverything came back negative.
But I was so unhealthy and soill that my doctor looked at me
and was like maybe you have HIV?
And I was like, wow, maybe weshould have tested for that nine
months ago.
(02:36):
So it was a very serious thing,because I think that a lot of
times gluten sensitivity andceliac disease sort of get
lumped together and they are notthe same thing, and having a
sensitivity to anything isfrustrating, annoying and
painful.
But I have an autoimmunedisease where when I eat gluten
which is in a lot of things Icreate antibodies that attack my
own body.
It specifically attacks mycolon and it prevents my colon
(03:01):
from absorbing nutrition, whichis why my whole immune system
was failing.
Even though I was consumingfood, I wasn't actually able to
absorb that nutrition.
So my hair is falling out, myskin was turning gray.
Fortunately, a week after himsaying that to me, I had a
colonoscopy and endoscopy andthey actually found the
antibodies, I was like,congratulations, you have celiac
disease.
I was like at that time I wasvery relieved.
(03:22):
I was like that felt likesomething I had a little more
control over than sort of an HIVdiagnosis, and they handed me a
sheet telling me, basicallyeducating me on celiac disease,
and I was like enjoy your life.
Obviously it's a little morecomplicated than that.
One of the things I learnedquickly.
The reason why we didn't find itthrough the elimination diets
was because gluten's ineverything, whether even if they
(03:44):
don't have gluten in them,right, if it's not.
Like, when you think aboutgluten, you think about bread
and pasta and cakes and anythingmade with wheat, which usually
is a baked good.
Gluten is used as apreservative, a filler and a
color, so it can be in vanillaand apple cider vinegar.
It's in soy sauce.
It's in caramel color, which isin Pepsi-Cola, coca-cola, even
ginger ale, anything.
Any liquid that isn't white,isn't clear, likely has caramel
(04:09):
color in it.
It can be used as a filler, soit's in spices, and it's used as
a preservative, so it's inthings like imitation crab.
It can be in cold cuts in therefrigerated aisle.
So almost anything you eat hasgluten in it and even if it
doesn't have gluten in it, itcould have cross-contamination
because it's manufactured on aline that has a gluten, a
(04:30):
product that has gluten in it.
So really, unless the producthas a seal that says certified
gluten-free, I can't be surethat I can eat it, unless it's
like a whole, a whole fruit.
So I got this diagnosis.
It was a couple of days beforeThanksgiving.
So I went home and I was likeyou know what?
I am not eating anything unlessit was picked off a tree or if
(04:51):
it's meat.
It's something.
I can see the cut marks in it.
Right, I could see how it wascut from the animal and within
24, 48 hours my skin turned pinkagain.
It was that immediate.
Obviously it took a long timefor my body to heal itself
because I'd been doing so muchdamage to my intestine and my
gut, but I did.
You know I'm perfectly healthynow as long as I don't eat
(05:12):
gluten.
So I was diagnosed with that andit was dramatic having to live
without basically the entiregrocery store.
It's a huge change, life changeto go through.
You no longer can take food forgranted.
You lose a lot of conveniencein your life, and I was getting
up at 5 am to be at work by 7.30and not getting home until
(05:32):
after the sun had set.
So convenience is veryimportant in your life when
you're working those kinds ofhours.
So you lose a lot of theconvenience in your life.
Even today, I have to thinkabout every single meal because
you can't just be like, oh, I'lljust grab a muffin on my way to
work.
No, that's something you haveto think about.
When I travel, I like to stayAirbnb's because I don't want to
(05:54):
go to a hotel where I don'tknow what kind of food they
serve.
Usually you're pretty isolated.
The hotel you have to eatwhat's on their menu, and that I
like to have an Airbnb with akitchen so that I have more
control over how I'm able tonourish myself and feed myself.
So all of these things thatused to not ever be a concern
are things that I think aboutconstantly.
So that changed my lifedramatically and I was living
(06:16):
this lifestyle for five yearsand it finally got to the point
where, like you know, I'mworking in finance, I'm very
tired, I don't get enough sleep.
I get yelled at all day, so ifyou make a mistake it's the end
of the world.
There are things that I lovedabout it, but it's a very
intense and emotionally drainingcareer.
And I just had a bad day and Iwas tired and I was standing in
(06:40):
line and I was waiting to checkout and I'd been shopping all
day and hadn't eaten and there'sthis package of gluten-free
cookies in front of me, like atthe checkout line, so I grabbed
them and I took a bite and itwas so bad I literally was like
I didn't even like continuechewing it, I just was like
spitting it out, which is at thetime and still pretty good.
Gluten-free products are notsatiating, to say the least, and
(07:03):
even times not even edible.
You're like that is notsomething.
I want to participate againwhen you think about a cookie.
A cookie should be a littlepersonal nugget of happiness.
There's no other purpose for acookie.
You're not getting anynutrition from a cookie.
You're not getting.
You know it's not a cake or acelebration, it's your own
personal little nugget ofhappiness.
(07:24):
In that moment it's like alittle treat and it should be
the very least.
It should make you smile.
It should make you just haveyour day a little bit better.
And a lot of times gluten freeproducts are definitely not that
.
And this one wasn't.
And I just had gone to businessschool and I was like you know
what?
I'm going to make a gluten freecookie.
I'm just going to do it.
I'm just going to do it, I'mgoing to make this.
There's got to be a better way.
So I left my job and I spentthree months baking every day,
(07:46):
like I was used to getting up atfive 30.
And so I was like, very, I feltvery like indulgent.
I would get up at six 30 andbake until I literally would
drop at the end, like I wouldbake, sometimes to midnight,
like I would just bake and bake,and bake.
And I baked million, thousandsnot millions, but thousands of
horrible cookies until I figuredout baking and understood the
process and developed somechemistry and some
(08:08):
sophistication and developedsome recipes.
And so I walked into a WholeFoods and I was just like you
know, you learn in businessschool to develop a prototype
and they get feedback on thatprototype and then refine the
prototype.
So I was like I have thisprototype.
It's a recipe, it's delicious,I can make it over and over and
over again.
It comes out the same everytime.
I'm going to go to the WholeFoods up the block, up the
street and I'm going to get somefeedback.
(08:33):
So I walk into this Whole Foodsand I'm just looking for
feedback and the woman at theinformation booth goes, oh talk,
to Chris at the bakery counterand I was like, okay.
So I go over to the bakery andthere's a guy standing behind
the cakes and I was like Chrisand he was like, yeah, I was
like I make gluten-free cookies.
He came over and he takes abite and he's like that's the
best gluten-free cookie I'veever tasted.
I want you to go down to UnionSquare and to Brooklyn, to those
locations of Whole Foods and wesell more gluten-free cookies
(08:57):
than anyone else in Manhattanand if we all like your cookie,
we can email our regional team,the regional office, and they
might onboard you to like ourforager program, which is a
local, a program for, like localcompanies that are small.
This is on a Thursday and I wasbeing onboarded by Monday.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Amazing Wow.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
So like and I had, like I had.
I was like that was justlooking for feedback on my
prototype.
I had no licenses.
I had no insurance.
I was making cookies on my24-inch stove in my studio
apartment in New York.
I had no manufacturing Like youhave to have.
There's a lot of regulations togo into food manufacturing but
(09:34):
fortunately I had.
It took about six months toonboard with Whole Foods.
It usually takes, on average,three months.
Six months is long, but Ididn't know what I was doing, so
it took me six months toonboard with them.
By then I'd gotten all my ducksin a row and I launched my
cookies and that was my wholego-to-market strategy and I've
been making, creating cookiesever since and now we're
developing some new products.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
That's so amazing just to hear your journey, right
, and it started from justwanting to eat something that
tasted good, yeah.
And then you were able to eat,knowing that it's absolutely
100% gluten free, yeah.
And then you use you know, yourskills from business school to
like go and pitch to this hugecompany, right, and like just
(10:15):
them loving it.
That is so inspiring.
So, yeah, amazing that you havebeen able to do that.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Yeah, and I would say like I like that you point that
out I have been able to do.
Yeah, and I would say I likethat you point that out.
I would say that the process tostart a business sounds really
intimidating and usually youthink of business and you think
of these big headquarterbuildings and there are these
huge symbols of power.
But you can have an idea andstart a business just at the
ground floor.
Right, you can just walk into acompany, into a retailer, and
(10:44):
be like I make cookies, lookingfor feedback, and that could be
all you need to establish acustomer and then start
generating revenue.
No one in those big corporateoffices are going to tell you
that.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Right, exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
They're going to tell you that you need private
equity funding and you need $10million, and you need sponsors
and you need all this.
All you need is a good productand a good idea, and then
someone to believe in you.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Right, yeah, absolutely, and, as you
mentioned, by just going inthere and asking for feedback,
yeah, and you are absolutelycorrect.
You need someone to tell youyeah, this is amazing, or maybe
not there yet, but okay, let mefix it up and I'll come back and
share it again.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
I was expecting the prototype process to take many
iterations.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
I wasn't expecting that to be like we'll take it.
I was expecting them to give meactual feedback on how to
refine the recipe and I didn'tget that, which is great.
It was great for me, butcertainly getting feedback and
fixing your prototype feedbackis really important and that's
what you're looking for in thebeginning.
You're not trying to sellanyone anything.
You have a concept, you'veidentified a need, you have a
(11:51):
concept, you've created aprototype and now you're looking
for feedback.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Right, yeah, I love that you have given us, you know
as business owners, kind oflike the roadmap.
Right, okay, this is what youdo and like some of the steps in
the simplest way, which isamazing, awesome.
Um, let me see what I know youhave in a deep personal
connection with, and I thinkthat also really matters.
Right, like you, you spend somany hours trying to perfect a
(12:16):
recipe.
There was a purpose, right it'snot something that you were
like, and I have to go and dothat.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Oh no, I was obsessed , yeah Right.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
You wanted to make it happen.
Yeah yeah, nice.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Go ahead, sorry.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
No, I was going to ask you because I know you
mentioned the taste, right, andso essentially that's one of the
gaps, right, that you see inthe gluten-free market.
When you're trying to tastesomething Like, it tastes like
cardboard, I know, and you knowyou want to be able to cater to
the customers that havegluten-free or that have celiac
(12:52):
disease or sensitivities thatthey can still feel included,
right, but not feel like, oh man, I don't want to eat that,
right, like you feel happy toeat those products, and I think
that's essentially one of thethings that you really worked on
, by being able to give that tothe customers.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yeah, so that was my biggest complaint.
I mean, food is more than just.
Obviously, I need to nourish mybody and heal my body.
So I wanted to create a productthat would accomplish that, and
that's something I don't at alltake for granted.
But food is so much more thanjust nourishment.
It's very emotional andpsychological.
It's what connects us to people, connects us to our memories,
(13:29):
it connects us to ourcommunities and our environments
, and so when you're constantlybeing asked to a celebration but
you can't have a slice of cake,that starts to feel emotionally
heavy and difficult.
And I found, like, when I firstgot diagnosed, I thought that I
was going to miss pizza andpasta and like those things that
we associate comfort with, andI certainly do miss those things
(13:52):
.
But the things that had more ofa impact on me were things that
are associated with memories,which is how we sort of relive
our past.
So like, even though I don't goto baseball games that often, I
miss going to a baseball gameand having a cold beer.
I miss having a cold Diet Cokeat the beach, because I have so
many positive memories ofdrinking Diet Coke at the beach
(14:16):
in the summertime.
I miss having birthday cake.
I don't even like birthday cake, but I miss having birthday
cake because it's such animportant part of the birthday
celebration.
And so I started to realizethat there's like all these
punctuations around food thatare such an important part of
our identity and our memoriesand who we are, and that is
really what you miss when youhave such a severe food, not
(14:41):
allergy, when you have somethingtaken away from you and it's
related to food.
And so I think that's why Ifelt so impacted by a cookie,
because I don't eat a lot ofcookies.
I don't have that much of asweet tooth.
You notice that all my cookiesare pretty savory and salty and
sweet.
They're not like overly sweet.
They're also, you know, complex.
That's because I don't have abig sweet tooth.
I like pie, I like somethingreally savory and buttery with
(15:03):
some fruit.
That's like my ideal dessert.
So I wanted to create somethingthat was balanced and like I was
like most gluten-free cookiesare overly sweet and
sophisticated, like they're justbland or they just taste like
cardboard, and then they're alsogritty and grainy.
The whole experience is soupsetting that you don't even
want to like.
(15:23):
We're like obsess over sugarand butter, right, and a cookie
is just sugar, butter and flourand a little bit of vanilla,
like we are engineered to want acookie and so when you're
spitting it out, you're likethis is not.
I mean, it doesn't take a lotto get me to eat something.
It's a farming cookie.
I'll probably eat it.
(15:44):
It could be celery, it could bea cookie, it could be anything.
But to get me to spit somethingout is like it's a challenge,
and that's how inedible some ofthese products were.
So, yeah, I really am a verydetailed person, I'm a very
focused person, and I was likethis isn't just going to be a
good cookie, this isn't justgoing to be a good gluten-free
cookie, this is going to be thebest cookie I've ever tasted.
(16:04):
And so I put that amount oflike, energy and focus and
passion into all of my products.
I am extremely focused onquality and like.
Even though I've I mean, Icreated my gluten-free cookies.
My first cookie that I evercreated was the brown butter
chocolate chip, and even thoughI created that now it was 2017,
seven years ago, eight years agoI am still perfecting it.
(16:26):
I'm still looking for ways tomake my cookies better.
Now it's a little bit differentfrom just a recipe.
Now I'm always looking for waysto naturally improve the shelf
life, because when you make,it's one thing to make a cookie
and then eat it that same day orthe next day.
It's quite a different level ofscience and chemistry when
you're trying to make ashelf-stable product that is
(16:47):
going to be baked today butmaybe not consumed for nine
months.
So now I'm constantly lookingat new ways to create a
delicious shelf-stable,all-natural, preservative-free
cookie.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Right, yeah, and that alone right, it can be a
challenge.
And so, with that said right,have you worked with like food
scientists, or do you have ateam that has helped you or that
is helping you with that?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
That's a good question.
Well, I was lucky early on whenWhole Foods really supported me
in the beginning and I waslooking for like I was making
everything for the first year byhand and then quickly I went
from three stores to 10 stores,to an entire region and there's
no way I could package myself.
I had like two people in mykitchen.
I would rent kitchen space outin Queens you can rent like
(17:32):
commercial kitchens out there bythe hour so I'd rented for the
whole day and I had like twoassistants who would come in and
we'd mix dough and we'd bakedough and we packaged cookies
and I did this for a full year.
And then I got so big thatthere was no way.
Like, actually the baking ispretty fast.
You can make thousands ofcookies in like a half hour if
you have the right equipment.
But packaging the cookies takesforever and I think a lot of
(17:53):
people think that that part isautomated.
It's not.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
If you have, like, an Oreo, and every single Oreo is
exactly the same size and youare Nabisco, then yes, you have
a machine, but the majority ofus do not have machines that can
handle odd shaped cookies, sowe would do that by hand and I
outgrew it.
So I went to I needed aco-packer.
I needed someone who could dothis for me but still maintain
the hand-baked quality of mycookies, and Whole Foods helped
(18:22):
me find one, and they are stilldoing my co-packing.
They're excellent at it.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
If you have like food scientists or chefs there.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
My co-packer, the CEO , is a food scientist.
I will say and I've spoken topeople there's like I'm in New
York and there's RutgersUniversity who has a whole food
science and research laboratory.
My having done this now foreight years I would say that the
science doesn't exist forgluten-free and that's why the
(18:52):
products are so bad.
It's because wheat is atechnology and you have to think
of it not as an ingredient butas a technology.
And there's a reason why mostcultures are either rice-based
cultures or wheat-based culturesor both.
It's because rice and wheat aretechnologies but they're very
different from each other.
And when we use rice flour inour cookies and most gluten-free
flour mixes are going to haverice in them the problem with
rice the good thing about riceis very neutral flavored, so it
(19:14):
tastes good when you combine itwith butter and sugar.
The problem is it has one 400ththe amount of protein that
wheat flour has.
What makes wheat flour sogenius and such an incredible
technology is that it's neutralflavored, so it's very palatable
and it doesn't compete withlike if you add sugar to it.
Doesn't compete with you addcinnamon to it.
Doesn't compete with it,doesn't compete with any of the
ingredients that sort ofenhances them.
It also it browns reallybeautifully, which enhances it,
(19:37):
caramelizes and browns, so youget a beautiful color to it.
You also get an enhanced sortof caramel flavor to whatever
you're making, whether it'sbread or a cookie or pizza dough
.
That caramelization can be bothsavory and sweet and it's
delicious.
So you get the caramelization.
You also have protein, andprotein can be the right amount
of protein, the exact rightamount of protein in a wheat
(19:57):
flour so that you can mix itvery gently and fold in egg
whites and make a sponge cakeand it's very delicate and
fluffy and light.
Or you can eat the hell out ofit, make sourdough bread, and
it's going to be tough and chewybut also delicious.
And you have one ingredient.
One ingredient does all ofthose things and that is an
incredible technology.
(20:18):
Once you remove the wheat, youlose all of that.
You lose the color, you losethe texture, you lose the
protein, which is the structure.
You lose it all and there is noother grain that replaces it.
You can add sorghum flour,which a lot of companies do.
They add sorghum flour to theirrice blan.
Sorghum flour has almost thesame amount of protein as wheat
flour.
Sorghum flour is a wonderfulancient grain, but it doesn't
taste good.
(20:38):
It tastes like you could havesorghum with chicken piccata,
right?
So you have salt, you haveolives, you have all this flavor
to compete with the sorghum andthen it tastes fine.
You cannot add vanilla, whichis basically a perfume, right?
Vanilla comes from an orchid,it's an incredibly sophisticated
but delicate flavor, and youhave butter, which is also a
(20:58):
really delicate flavor and,competing with sorghum, all you
taste is the sorghum.
So there's no otherhigh-protein grain out there
that exists that is going togive you the same qualities and
technology as wheat with thesame neutral palette.
The only grain that's really, inmy opinion, comparable is rice,
but rice has no protein, whichmakes gluten-free baking nearly
impossible.
It's extremely challenging.
(21:19):
So what happens?
When manufacturers you've saidthey taste like cardboard or
taste gritty and it doesn'ttaste good, that's because the
rice doesn't have enough proteinto support the baked good, so
you have to add more flour andthen it becomes dry and gritty
and like cardboard, and so yourratio changes.
You also can't get like whatthe protein allows, like when
you put butter and fluid andliquid into the batter and then
(21:43):
that evaporates and the proteinin the flour allows it to expand
and create bubbles and then youget body so you can get
something that's very cakey andhas those little bubbles like
you get in bread.
Rice flour won't do that.
It doesn't flex, it's verybrittle.
So you can't get rice flour todo that.
So you can't get your product,your baked goods, to rise Very,
very challenging.
So the technology doesn't exist,despite the fact that my
(22:06):
co-packer is a certified foodscientist and a Columbia MBA,
very educated person.
He doesn't even like to bakegluten-free when I'm not there.
It's so hard and he makesmillions of like six million
cookies and he makes reallyspecialty cookies, like hand
(22:26):
decorated cookies, reallychallenging, not like not a
Chips Ahoy, things that havefilling in them, things that are
covered in caramel andchocolate, things that are hand
decorated, everything fromdouble brownies, everything.
He does all the specialtythings that look like bakery
products and he doesn't like tobake gluten-free.
That's how hard it is.
So, despite, like, I havespoken to records, I've spoken
(22:50):
to food scientists and I'venever really pursued them
because, to answer your question, this chemistry does not exist.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yeah, it sounds really difficult and you know
you haven't been able to justcreate this amazing product.
I think that it's amazing and,as you mentioned, you continue
to perfect things and trydifferent things, which I'm sure
is not an easy thing to do.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
No, and it's all been trial and error.
I've learned a lot.
I can talk about the chemistrya little bit better now.
I'm certainly not a foodscientist or any kind of
scientist, but it was a lot oftrial and error and I can make a
lot of recipes now.
But it was literally startingfrom scratch.
It was just a lot of failureuntil I started to succeed.
But it was many, many days andmany thousands of cookies of
(23:32):
failure before I started tofigure it out.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Right yeah, I mean that journey right yeah.
By the way, how do you come upwith the name Like what?
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Oh, I love that question, yeah, so when you look
at a lot of gluten-freeproducts, so I did not only
wanted my products to taste good, but I wanted it to be fun,
because a cookie should make yousmile, right, and cookie
packaging and cookie brandingshould also make you smile.
It should be fun, it should beflirty and it should be
enjoyable.
And if you look a lot of thegluten-free products, they've
been around a while and they'remaybe from the seventies or
(24:02):
eighties and, frankly, theirpackaging is uninspiring.
It's a little bit trite.
It's like white with some blueletters or an old man's face on
the package and you're like Idon't know if they had me in
mind when they made this and Iwanted it to be colorful and fun
.
I wanted the branding.
I didn't want it to beCarolyn's Gluten-Free, because
there's already Bob's, there'salready Lucy's, there's already
(24:25):
Abe's, there's alreadyeveryone's, everyone's
gluten-free.
And I was like it's not goingto be Carolyn's gluten-free, it
has to be something that's fun.
And so I honed it on Mighty,because Mighty is sort of like
Mighty Mouse that's where I gotit from Whereas, like this
children's cartoon, likeeveryone sort of identifies with
Mighty Mouse because he's asuperhero.
So, like, even grown men arelike Mighty Mouse, right,
(24:49):
because like superhero, and Ifound that that word really
resonated with people, that,like it reminded them of their
childhood, but they alsoidentified with it as adults.
And so then I had to come upwith Mighty what?
And that was hard and I hadlike dozens of names and all of
them weren't very good.
And then I was like, what aboutMighty Delicious?
And I looked up Mightyliciousand it was.
So it's not just your name, butyou have to be able to trademark
it, so it has to be not beentaken.
And even though there might notbe a brand out there, the
(25:16):
trademark had been taken, likein 1976, by someone.
It's just not in use.
So I found Mightylicious wasnot taken and I was like I love
it, it's fun, it's funny and itsort of sounds.
It's not necessarily soundslike a superhero, but it makes
you like smile when you say it.
And then we also have a mascot.
We have Charlie, who is ournon-binary unicorn.
I love that, and unicorns trendin every decade and Charlie is
(25:39):
non-binary and he's holding thepeace sign, he's got sunglasses
on and makes him cool and grownmen love him and little girls
love him and everything inbetween loves him.
Them yeah, yeah, and so it wasreally important to me that I
had a mascot and a fun name andbranding that was happy and
cheerful and makes you thinkthis cookie is going to make me
(26:01):
smile.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Right, yeah, I love the packaging for sure, and you
know that you have a mascotbecause you do as you're
creating a brand, right?
You need people to remember itand say I want to eat this
cookie or I want to eat thisproduct, as you mentioned it
brings a smile right, as opposedto like oh man, that's a sad
packaging.
Yeah, you don't want to eat it.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Exactly, and I was like when I think about fun as a
child, I think about like CocoaPuffs and Fruity Pebbles and we
were not very often allowed toeat that in my house, but when
we did it was a big deal and allthe cereal boxes have mascots.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
And I was like, yeah, we're gonna have a mascot,
right.
Yeah, I mean, it's amazing,love it.
What are the misconceptionsthat you've heard right or that
you've experienced with that?
That's about gluten free eatingright or gluten free, and we
kind of talked a little bitabout that right, just not the
flavor not been there.
But what are some of the commonmisconceptions that you've
heard?
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Yeah, I mean our biggest hurdle is, like I say
that misconception about celiacdisease is that it's not a real
thing, like that's a big hurdle.
Like there's skeptics about likeoh, just just eat this, like it
will make me sick immediately,like trace amounts of gluten
will make me very sick within180 seconds.
So that's a misconception Ithink that people have about
their allergy and also thedisease that a lot of people
(27:17):
discredit and don't take it veryseriously when it is very
serious.
I would say that my biggesthurdle is getting to the
consumer, because the consumeris so jaded by all the sort of
cardboard gritty productsthey've had and so just getting
someone to try my product is thebiggest hurdle.
Once they've tried it theybelieve.
But just getting them to takethat risk because they do
(27:39):
genuinely like gluten-freeproducts can be so disappointing
that it's generally people viewit as a risk to put a
gluten-free thing in their mouth.
Right, that's how bad thereputation is out there.
So that is the biggest hurdle.
I don't think that's amisconception, I think that's
fair, I think it's a survivalresponse.
(27:59):
People are traumatized, which iswhy I've learned, I've
developed a way to talk about myproducts that really makes
sense intellectually, so thatpeople feel a little bit more at
ease.
Be like, okay, someoneunderstands the chemistry, she's
really thought about this,she's spent a lot of time
developing it.
I know how to tell that storyso that the people will
literally open their mouth andtake a bite.
(28:21):
I have to negotiate, basicallyto get people to try it.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yeah, absolutely, and you build a powerful brand in
such a competitive space.
I think this is such animportant question in terms of
just being a woman owning abusiness, being an entrepreneur
in the food industry.
How has that been for you?
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yeah, it's hard.
There are other women in thiscategory and so there are a lot
of women in food.
When I go to these trade shows,there's many female
entrepreneurs.
A little bit as a millennial, Ifeel like we're still battling
conceptions or misconceptionsfrom the 1950s and 60s.
People still think that womenare starting businesses, and
(29:04):
that's just not true.
50% of CFOs in America arewomen and 30% of CEOs in America
are women, and the fastestgrowing group of entrepreneurs
in America are women, and thelargest, the fastest growing
group of entrepreneurs inAmerica are women, and 60% of
all college graduates in Americaare women.
30% of all of individuals whohave a million dollars net worth
(29:26):
or more are women, and so womenwere here and we are a force to
be reckoned with.
But I would say that, like inSTEM and private equity, finding
funding is still a challenge.
You still have sort of thatgood old boys club and the ideal
entrepreneur is a 24 to 28 yearold white male, and I knew that
, and so I didn't try to raisemoney from any private equity
(29:49):
people.
I was like I'm going to do itmyself, I don't need you and I'm
just going to figure it out onmy own, and that might make it
more challenging, but it alsomight open up opportunities.
I didn't know was there.
So when I started my company Ihad no intention of raising
capital, at least initially.
So in the beginning I opened upsome credit cards just using my
personal credit and that gaveme about $150,000.
(30:10):
And I only ordered enoughingredients, like I would get a
purchase order from Whole Foods.
I would only order enoughingredients and packaging to
fulfill that order and I madesure that I was creating my
packaging.
It helps that I have an artdegree as well, so I was able to
like buy a printer, like just aprinter from Staples.
I can print stickers and Idesigned my own packaging and
(30:30):
just put it on tintype coffeebags, and they loved that
packaging.
It was a great way to start.
So I only had to buy enoughingredients and packaging for
the order and that way I justhad $10,000 worth of revolving
debt that I would just put onthe credit card and then, once I
got paid, I paid it down and Inever accumulated any debt.
I managed the finances that wayuntil I grew to be two regions
(30:53):
and then I couldn't handle thatanymore and I took all the
success I'd had and all thisorganic success because I had no
marketing dollars.
I was literally just word ofmouth with how my product was
expanding and I went to acrowdfunding website and they
love my product and I raised $5million.
It took about a year to do that.
(31:14):
It wasn't a fast process, letme tell you.
It's good and fast.
It was not, and I raised $5million.
So I still don't have anystrategic investors.
Of course, I am to the pointwhere I am open to those now,
but prior to raising the capital, I actually had enough purchase
orders to get a loan from TDBank, a small business loan.
(31:36):
So I was able to get two smallbusiness loans from TD Bank at a
very reasonable interest rate.
That was like a fraction it waslike a quarter of the interest
rate of what I was paying on mycredit cards to help manage the
interim.
And then I raised $5 million incapital.
So there are resources outthere that don't require you to
do anything but submit anapplication.
There are small business loansyou do have to build up.
(31:57):
You have to show I havepurchase orders, I'm generating
revenue, but you don't have togo to a private equity firm and
convince them.
You're the next Elon Musk?
That's not necessary.
There are resources out there.
I also have a government SBAloan that I got because it was
around COVID when all this washappening.
It was actually 2020.
(32:17):
So I got that loan and all ofthis.
I got all those loans theprivate TD loan and then the SBA
loan and then about a yearlater I raised $5 million in
capital.
So there are definitelyresources out there.
The fact that I worked infinance and wealth management
helped.
I had a lot more exposure thanthe typical entrepreneur into
(32:38):
different types of debt vehiclesand different types of
financing, and I'm even learningabout them.
I just had a company cold callme and say we offer revolving
lines of credit and let's seehow much you qualify for.
And I sent them someinformation and they're like
here's a hundred.
And I was like great, yeah,I'll buy some ingredients.
So in this world, like comparedto when I started to where we
(32:59):
are, there are so many morelenders out there that are
legitimate, safe lenders thatare far more competitive than
the banks because they can takeon they don't have to be as
strict with their riskassessment as the banks, like a
bank is going to charge you themost and they're going to be the
difficult not difficult, butthey're going to have the
highest requirements to qualifyfor debt because they have all
these investors.
Jp Morgan has all theseinvestors.
(33:21):
They have a fortress balancesheet.
They can't fail.
They're more stingy with whothey give their debt to.
But there's more digitalcompanies that are smaller, that
are legitimate lenders.
They're newer companies andthey can lend against things
like oh, you have a purchaseorder, how much is that purchase
order for?
It's a purchase order for WholeFoods for $150,000.
(33:43):
Well, we can give you 15 grandand that's fantastic at a
reasonable rate.
And those are the types ofopportunities that are available
now.
They're open to everyone.
You can be male or female, theydo not care, and you can sort
of bankroll your company thatway until you're ready to raise
capital.
And then, once you haveestablished a brand and you have
(34:06):
multiple regions, then peoplewill be interested in you.
They don't care if you're maleor female, You've shown it, you
have the revenue and you havethe brand equity and all those
things.
Then it doesn't really matter.
It is still a little bit hard,but I never like.
I never think about it that way.
I just think about it as likeokay, so I have to find
different routes.
And you know what, maybe thoseroutes are better.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Yeah, I love the way that you see it right and more
of a positive way versus like aholding you back kind of way.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Yeah, yeah, I think that I was realistic about there
are certain stereotypes aroundwhat the investor should look
like.
It's not like, oh, we don'twant to invest in women.
It's just like they wouldrather invest in a 28-year-old
white male.
That's just what they thinksuccess looks like, and I knew
that and I just accepted thatand was like I'm going to find
my way around this.
(34:51):
And then once I think that tobe a successful entrepreneur or
any run a small business, youhave to be a creative person
creative in so many differentaspects of the industry and so
you have to be willing to do alittle bit more work.
And I'm grateful for all of thefinancing options I found,
because I was like I didn't knowthat you could get a loan for
(35:11):
this amount at this interestrate with so much risk.
That's wonderful, because I'vealways worked at big banks, yeah
, so yeah, I think that thedoors are opening for women.
I think that also, companiesare realizing that women are
good investments because womenmake good risks.
They take women, on average,take good risks, meaning that if
(35:32):
you had women in charge of thestock market, we wouldn't have
all these crashes.
Because women take good risks,meaning that if you had women in
charge of the stock market, wewouldn't have all these crashes,
because women take good risksand that's something that is
pretty well known, even at thecorporate banks.
Where you get into more of thetestosterone-driven industry, it
can be a little bit moreintimidating, but I worked as a
stockbroker like I can handleanyone.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
I love that.
It's amazing.
Bring it on yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
It doesn't make it easy.
I mean 99% of entrepreneursfail.
It doesn't matter what genderyou are.
It's hard to do.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Yeah, it truly is what has been your proudest
moment so far.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Oh, what a good question.
I don't know what my proudestmoment is.
No-transcript.
(36:42):
Even get my kids.
My kid has XYZ allergies and hewon't eat anything and he loves
your cookies and I can alwaysget them know that I can have
those and it's something that heneeds.
So if I have a toddler now andit's like you're not feeding
your toddler broccoli, you'rejust like please eat the gummy
bears, please eat something,because you're so hungry and
(37:02):
irrational.
Whatever you want, just eat it.
That's where I am.
My kids are pretty good eaters.
They're not as picky and theydon't have any allergies.
I can't imagine what parents aregoing through with their kids
who have food allergies and whenyou just want your kid to eat
because they're having theirsugar is too low and they're
like having a meltdown, whichhappens with little people.
So that obviously is veryimportant to me.
(37:25):
But I say I'm the proudest iswhen, like some dude comes up to
me and he's like mygirlfriend's gluten free and she
buys your cookies and yourpeanut butter cookie is my
favorite cookie and he's like Ihave no allergies and I'm not
vegan.
Right, like that is.
I'm like that's, that was thepoint.
Like I make a cookie foreveryone.
You just have to like cookies.
You don't have to begluten-free, you don't have to
(37:45):
be vegan, you don't have to evencare about being better for you
, you just have to like cookies.
So my cookie is a great product.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
You just have to like cookies to enjoy them, and they
just so happen to be allergenfriendly and better for you,
right?
Yeah, that's amazing thatsomeone that would probably not
just see the packaging and belike, oh, but I'm not vegan or
gluten free, you know, I don'thave any sensitivities but still
being able to be like, wow,this is a great cookie, right.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
I like that I eat these voluntarily.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Yeah, exactly that's awesome.
So what's next for MightyDelicious?
Are there any new products, newflavors coming soon?
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Yeah, so you tried my cookies, right?
Speaker 1 (38:22):
I have yes.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Did we send you any of our flour blends?
I?
Speaker 1 (38:25):
actually made some.
My youngest loves chickennuggets, right.
So I'm like, okay, I need tomake my own.
And I used the all-purposeflour and they came out really
good.
I mean, he ate them and I waslike, huh nice.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Yeah, so rice flour actually makes better
gluten-free nuggets than wheatflour because it's crispier yeah
, they were pretty crispy.
There are some things, like acracker or something that's
fried, where rice flour isactually going to perform better
than gluten because it doesn'thave the elasticity.
So, yes, so you can definitelyuse our flour to make chicken
nuggets.
It's going to go crispy anddelicious.
Yeah, so we just launched thisyear in March, march, april, I
(38:58):
think hit the shelves this April.
We have three flour blends.
We have an all-purpose flourblend, which is the one you
tried.
That flour blend is gluten-free.
It has whole milk powder in it,so it's not dairy-free.
We have a vegan flour blend,which is gluten-free and
dairy-free.
It has coconut milk powder init.
One of the ways that we replacethe protein in our flour blend
is with milk, either a wholemilk or coconut milk.
(39:22):
And that brings me back to whatI was talking about earlier,
about not wanting to use sorghumflour.
And I have nothing againstancient grains.
I love quinoa, I love garbanzobeans, I love lots of ancient
grains.
I just don't want them in mycookie.
I don't want in my cake or mycookie or things that are meant
to smell and taste like vanilla,so we only use rice flour.
What makes my cookie sodifferent is that we're, I think
(39:43):
, the only company that onlyuses rice flour as our base.
Everyone else uses an ancientgrain which has that acrid
aftertaste.
We specifically mill our riceflour to a speck.
I work with the rice growersand the mills to mill it so that
it's fine enough, so it's notgritty.
That allows us to eliminate theintegrated grain, and the way
we replace the protein is withwhole milk flour, coconut milk
(40:04):
flour.
So you get a cookie that iscompletely neutral on your
palate but has the structurethat you need and the softness,
the fluffiness that you need tobake with it.
Most people don't know this, butrice flour in the US is not
milled for baking.
It's milled for cooking.
It's not milled fine enough tobake with, which is why you get
that grittiness in your baking.
So I was telling this.
I was at a food show, which Ido four times a year to a buyer
(40:27):
and he goes.
I was explaining why my cookiestaste so good and he goes.
I love them.
I'm the flower buyer at Kroger,which is in the US, the largest
natural grocery store in the US.
It's bigger than anyone elseCan I buy?
your flower and I was like, yes,we make it, we make it by the
ton, but we just don't packageit.
So I created some packaging,sent him some samples.
He took two of the three I senthim, and so I have now two
(40:50):
flower blends that are availablefor retail.
They're going to be availablein Wake Fern in October as well,
here on the East Coast, and wehave a brownie, a vegan,
gluten-free brownie, and it ismy best-selling stew.
It's absolutely divine.
So that's what's new for us isour three flower blends.
They just hit the market thisApril and we're growing in
distribution.
We're already in Kroger.
(41:12):
We will be in Wake Fernern,which is um on the east coast.
This is my little person, right, who loves mommy's cookies,
right?
So, yes, yes, amazing, thoseare the best taste testers they
are.
She's the best sister.
She also helps me make recipesright they will give you an
honest response.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
Oh, yes, awesome, yeah, so many amazing products.
I can definitely wait to trythe vegan brownie one.
Um, so I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
We didn't send you that.
We should always send thatbecause it's like people just
freak out over it.
I just created, like Iobviously always want to make a,
a excellent product, but I waslike I need a third skew.
I have two flower skews, but Ineed three because that's always
better, and so I created thisbrownie really quickly and
people the response to it hasjust been overwhelming.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
That's awesome.
Yeah, just all the products and, I'm sure, the many more things
right that you'll continue tocreate.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
That's just the beginning.
I want to be like a better foryou brand, Like I want to be in
multiple aisles of the grocerystore, but I also I'm not trying
to saturate the market tooquickly.
I want to, like develop aproduct really establish it
Right.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Yeah, Awesome.
Where can they find?
Where can the listeners findyour?
Speaker 2 (42:26):
products.
How can they get ahold of them?
You can get my products atmightyliciouscom on our website.
We ship to all 50 States.
If you buy three bags or more,shipping is free.
It's just mightyliciouscom.
You can find us on amazoncom.
We have a storefront there.
You can buy all of our productsthere.
You can find us in manyretailers across the US.
We're in HEB in Texas.
We're in Mayhold Giant here inNew Jersey.
(42:48):
We're in HEB, we're in Giant,we're in Walmart all throughout
the East Coast.
We're in tons of naturalspecialty stores in the US, from
Chicago to San Francisco toTexas.
Texas is one of our biggestmarkets.
If you don't find us at yourlocal grocery store, always ask
Any product that you don't seeat your grocery store that you
buy on Amazon, ask about it,because if enough people ask the
(43:10):
local grocery stores, thateventually filters up to the
whoever is the person who is incharge of buying.
They don't want to guess whatyou need.
They want you to tell them.
So, of course, ask for it.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
And if you can't, ask if you can't find it.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
I'll make sure to add all that information,
specifically the website um andthe tips that you are providing
we also have and I forget it,but vicky has it we have a code,
a promo code specifically foryour listeners, so they can get
20% off on Amazon.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
Awesome.
Thank you.
I will make sure to get thatcode and add it in the show
notes.
Caroline, I know you're a busyperson.
I appreciate your time.
Thank you so much for coming tothe show and sending you lots
of good vibes and amazingsuccess.
Thank you so much.
You're welcome, take.
Hey, hey, everyone.
Welcome back to SimpleNutrition Insights.
I'm your host, Leonila Campos,registered dietitian, wellness
advocate and your partner inmaking nutrition simple and
sustainable.
Today, I have a truly inspiringguest joining me, Carolyn K
Haler, the creative force behindmy Gluten-Free, a brand known
(00:21):
for its uncompromisinglydelicious gluten-free baked
goods.
Carolyn's story is not onlyrooted in entrepreneurship and
innovation, but also in personalpassion and purpose.
Whether you're gluten-free bychoice or necessity, or just
love a great cookie, thisepisode is for you, Carolyn.
Welcome to the show.
(00:42):
Let's start with the heart ofyour journey.
What inspired you to createMightylicious?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, so I started Mightylicious in 2017.
That was actually after fiveyears of living with a celiac
disease diagnosis.
I was diagnosed with celiacdisease in 2012, when I was 31
years old, so prior to that, Ihad lived a gluten-full life.
I didn't have any dietaryrestrictions.
(01:08):
I didn't have any allergies oranything.
I've always been a very healthyperson.
I really love fish, I reallylove salad and fruit those are
like my three but I also eatlots of other things like cake
and pasta and pizza and all ofthose things bagels.
I'm a New Yorker.
Around in 2012, I guess itstarted in 2011,.
I just started getting someindigestion, which wasn't a big
(01:30):
deal, but it was annoying enoughthat I was talking to my GP
about it because it wassomething that I'd never had
before and over the course ofthe following nine months, my
immune system started to fail.
By the time I was diagnosed, myhair was falling out, my skin
had turned gray, my stomach wasdistended it wasn't just bloated
, it was like physicallydistended and I was in a
(01:53):
tremendous amount of physicalpain.
I'd also just moved toManhattan, New York, and I had
just started in a brand new jobdown on Wall Street and I mean
physically on Wall Street, notjust in finance.
I was actually taking a trainevery day downtown to the
financial district and worked onWall Street and all of that is
overwhelming by itself.
And I was going through all ofthis pain and I got to the point
(02:16):
where my doctors you know I wasworking with specialists we'd
done blood tests, we'd doneelimination diets, we'd done all
sorts of different things andeverything came back negative.
But I was so unhealthy and soill that my doctor looked at me
and was like maybe you have HIV?
And I was like, wow, maybe weshould have tested for that nine
months ago.
(02:36):
So it was a very serious thing,because I think that a lot of
times gluten sensitivity andceliac disease sort of get
lumped together and they are notthe same thing, and having a
sensitivity to anything isfrustrating, annoying and
painful.
But I have an autoimmunedisease where when I eat gluten
which is in a lot of things Icreate antibodies that attack my
own body.
It specifically attacks mycolon and it prevents my colon
(03:01):
from absorbing nutrition, whichis why my whole immune system
was failing.
Even though I was consumingfood, I wasn't actually able to
absorb that nutrition.
So my hair is falling out, myskin was turning gray.
Fortunately, a week after himsaying that to me, I had a
colonoscopy and endoscopy andthey actually found the
antibodies, I was like,congratulations, you have celiac
disease.
I was like at that time I wasvery relieved.
(03:22):
I was like that felt likesomething I had a little more
control over than sort of an HIVdiagnosis, and they handed me a
sheet telling me, basicallyeducating me on celiac disease,
and I was like enjoy your life.
Obviously it's a little morecomplicated than that.
One of the things I learnedquickly.
The reason why we didn't find itthrough the elimination diets
was because gluten's ineverything, whether even if they
(03:44):
don't have gluten in them,right, if it's not.
Like, when you think aboutgluten, you think about bread
and pasta and cakes and anythingmade with wheat, which usually
is a baked good.
Gluten is used as apreservative, a filler and a
color, so it can be in vanillaand apple cider vinegar.
It's in soy sauce.
It's in caramel color, which isin Pepsi-Cola, coca-cola, even
ginger ale, anything.
Any liquid that isn't white,isn't clear, likely has caramel
(04:09):
color in it.
It can be used as a filler, soit's in spices, and it's used as
a preservative, so it's inthings like imitation crab.
It can be in cold cuts in therefrigerated aisle.
So almost anything you eat hasgluten in it and even if it
doesn't have gluten in it, itcould have cross-contamination
because it's manufactured on aline that has a gluten, a
(04:30):
product that has gluten in it.
So really, unless the producthas a seal that says certified
gluten-free, I can't be surethat I can eat it, unless it's
like a whole, a whole fruit.
So I got this diagnosis.
It was a couple of days beforeThanksgiving.
So I went home and I was likeyou know what?
I am not eating anything unlessit was picked off a tree or if
(04:51):
it's meat.
It's something.
I can see the cut marks in it.
Right, I could see how it wascut from the animal and within
24, 48 hours my skin turned pinkagain.
It was that immediate.
Obviously it took a long timefor my body to heal itself
because I'd been doing so muchdamage to my intestine and my
gut, but I did.
You know I'm perfectly healthynow as long as I don't eat
(05:12):
gluten.
So I was diagnosed with that andit was dramatic having to live
without basically the entiregrocery store.
It's a huge change, life changeto go through.
You no longer can take food forgranted.
You lose a lot of conveniencein your life, and I was getting
up at 5 am to be at work by 7.30and not getting home until
(05:32):
after the sun had set.
So convenience is veryimportant in your life when
you're working those kinds ofhours.
So you lose a lot of theconvenience in your life.
Even today, I have to thinkabout every single meal because
you can't just be like, oh, I'lljust grab a muffin on my way to
work.
No, that's something you haveto think about.
When I travel, I like to stayAirbnb's because I don't want to
(05:54):
go to a hotel where I don'tknow what kind of food they
serve.
Usually you're pretty isolated.
The hotel you have to eatwhat's on their menu, and that I
like to have an Airbnb with akitchen so that I have more
control over how I'm able tonourish myself and feed myself.
So all of these things thatused to not ever be a concern
are things that I think aboutconstantly.
So that changed my lifedramatically and I was living
(06:16):
this lifestyle for five yearsand it finally got to the point
where, like you know, I'mworking in finance, I'm very
tired, I don't get enough sleep.
I get yelled at all day, so ifyou make a mistake it's the end
of the world.
There are things that I lovedabout it, but it's a very
intense and emotionally drainingcareer.
And I just had a bad day and Iwas tired and I was standing in
(06:40):
line and I was waiting to checkout and I'd been shopping all
day and hadn't eaten and there'sthis package of gluten-free
cookies in front of me, like atthe checkout line, so I grabbed
them and I took a bite and itwas so bad I literally was like
I didn't even like continuechewing it, I just was like
spitting it out, which is at thetime and still pretty good.
Gluten-free products are notsatiating, to say the least, and
(07:03):
even times not even edible.
You're like that is notsomething.
I want to participate againwhen you think about a cookie.
A cookie should be a littlepersonal nugget of happiness.
There's no other purpose for acookie.
You're not getting anynutrition from a cookie.
You're not getting.
You know it's not a cake or acelebration, it's your own
personal little nugget ofhappiness.
(07:24):
In that moment it's like alittle treat and it should be
the very least.
It should make you smile.
It should make you just haveyour day a little bit better.
And a lot of times gluten freeproducts are definitely not that
.
And this one wasn't.
And I just had gone to businessschool and I was like you know
what?
I'm going to make a gluten freecookie.
I'm just going to do it.
I'm just going to do it, I'mgoing to make this.
There's got to be a better way.
So I left my job and I spentthree months baking every day,
(07:46):
like I was used to getting up atfive 30.
And so I was like, very, I feltvery like indulgent.
I would get up at six 30 andbake until I literally would
drop at the end, like I wouldbake, sometimes to midnight,
like I would just bake and bake,and bake.
And I baked million, thousandsnot millions, but thousands of
horrible cookies until I figuredout baking and understood the
process and developed somechemistry and some
(08:08):
sophistication and developedsome recipes.
And so I walked into a WholeFoods and I was just like you
know, you learn in businessschool to develop a prototype
and they get feedback on thatprototype and then refine the
prototype.
So I was like I have thisprototype.
It's a recipe, it's delicious,I can make it over and over and
over again.
It comes out the same everytime.
I'm going to go to the WholeFoods up the block, up the
street and I'm going to get somefeedback.
(08:33):
So I walk into this Whole Foodsand I'm just looking for
feedback and the woman at theinformation booth goes, oh talk,
to Chris at the bakery counterand I was like, okay.
So I go over to the bakery andthere's a guy standing behind
the cakes and I was like Chrisand he was like, yeah, I was
like I make gluten-free cookies.
He came over and he takes abite and he's like that's the
best gluten-free cookie I'veever tasted.
I want you to go down to UnionSquare and to Brooklyn, to those
locations of Whole Foods and wesell more gluten-free cookies
(08:57):
than anyone else in Manhattanand if we all like your cookie,
we can email our regional team,the regional office, and they
might onboard you to like ourforager program, which is a
local, a program for, like localcompanies that are small.
This is on a Thursday and I wasbeing onboarded by Monday.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Amazing Wow.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
So like and I had, like I had.
I was like that was justlooking for feedback on my
prototype.
I had no licenses.
I had no insurance.
I was making cookies on my24-inch stove in my studio
apartment in New York.
I had no manufacturing Like youhave to have.
There's a lot of regulations togo into food manufacturing but
(09:34):
fortunately I had.
It took about six months toonboard with Whole Foods.
It usually takes, on average,three months.
Six months is long, but Ididn't know what I was doing, so
it took me six months toonboard with them.
By then I'd gotten all my ducksin a row and I launched my
cookies and that was my wholego-to-market strategy and I've
been making, creating cookiesever since and now we're
developing some new products.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
That's so amazing just to hear your journey, right
, and it started from justwanting to eat something that
tasted good, yeah.
And then you were able to eat,knowing that it's absolutely
100% gluten free, yeah.
And then you use you know, yourskills from business school to
like go and pitch to this hugecompany, right, and like just
(10:15):
them loving it.
That is so inspiring.
So, yeah, amazing that you havebeen able to do that.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Yeah, and I would say like I like that you point that
out I have been able to do.
Yeah, and I would say I likethat you point that out.
I would say that the process tostart a business sounds really
intimidating and usually youthink of business and you think
of these big headquarterbuildings and there are these
huge symbols of power.
But you can have an idea andstart a business just at the
ground floor.
Right, you can just walk into acompany, into a retailer, and
(10:44):
be like I make cookies, lookingfor feedback, and that could be
all you need to establish acustomer and then start
generating revenue.
No one in those big corporateoffices are going to tell you
that.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Right, exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
They're going to tell you that you need private
equity funding and you need $10million, and you need sponsors
and you need all this.
All you need is a good productand a good idea, and then
someone to believe in you.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Right, yeah, absolutely, and, as you
mentioned, by just going inthere and asking for feedback,
yeah, and you are absolutelycorrect.
You need someone to tell youyeah, this is amazing, or maybe
not there yet, but okay, let mefix it up and I'll come back and
share it again.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
I was expecting the prototype process to take many
iterations.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
I wasn't expecting that to be like we'll take it.
I was expecting them to give meactual feedback on how to
refine the recipe and I didn'tget that, which is great.
It was great for me, butcertainly getting feedback and
fixing your prototype feedbackis really important and that's
what you're looking for in thebeginning.
You're not trying to sellanyone anything.
You have a concept, you'veidentified a need, you have a
(11:51):
concept, you've created aprototype and now you're looking
for feedback.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Right, yeah, I love that you have given us, you know
as business owners, kind oflike the roadmap.
Right, okay, this is what youdo and like some of the steps in
the simplest way, which isamazing, awesome.
Um, let me see what I know youhave in a deep personal
connection with, and I thinkthat also really matters.
Right, like you, you spend somany hours trying to perfect a
(12:16):
recipe.
There was a purpose, right it'snot something that you were
like, and I have to go and dothat.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Oh no, I was obsessed , yeah Right.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
You wanted to make it happen.
Yeah yeah, nice.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Go ahead, sorry.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
No, I was going to ask you because I know you
mentioned the taste, right, andso essentially that's one of the
gaps, right, that you see inthe gluten-free market.
When you're trying to tastesomething Like, it tastes like
cardboard, I know, and you knowyou want to be able to cater to
the customers that havegluten-free or that have celiac
(12:52):
disease or sensitivities thatthey can still feel included,
right, but not feel like, oh man, I don't want to eat that,
right, like you feel happy toeat those products, and I think
that's essentially one of thethings that you really worked on
, by being able to give that tothe customers.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yeah, so that was my biggest complaint.
I mean, food is more than just.
Obviously, I need to nourish mybody and heal my body.
So I wanted to create a productthat would accomplish that, and
that's something I don't at alltake for granted.
But food is so much more thanjust nourishment.
It's very emotional andpsychological.
It's what connects us to people, connects us to our memories,
(13:29):
it connects us to ourcommunities and our environments
, and so when you're constantlybeing asked to a celebration but
you can't have a slice of cake,that starts to feel emotionally
heavy and difficult.
And I found, like, when I firstgot diagnosed, I thought that I
was going to miss pizza andpasta and like those things that
we associate comfort with, andI certainly do miss those things
(13:52):
.
But the things that had more ofa impact on me were things that
are associated with memories,which is how we sort of relive
our past.
So like, even though I don't goto baseball games that often, I
miss going to a baseball gameand having a cold beer.
I miss having a cold Diet Cokeat the beach, because I have so
many positive memories ofdrinking Diet Coke at the beach
(14:16):
in the summertime.
I miss having birthday cake.
I don't even like birthday cake, but I miss having birthday
cake because it's such animportant part of the birthday
celebration.
And so I started to realizethat there's like all these
punctuations around food thatare such an important part of
our identity and our memoriesand who we are, and that is
really what you miss when youhave such a severe food, not
(14:41):
allergy, when you have somethingtaken away from you and it's
related to food.
And so I think that's why Ifelt so impacted by a cookie,
because I don't eat a lot ofcookies.
I don't have that much of asweet tooth.
You notice that all my cookiesare pretty savory and salty and
sweet.
They're not like overly sweet.
They're also, you know, complex.
That's because I don't have abig sweet tooth.
I like pie, I like somethingreally savory and buttery with
(15:03):
some fruit.
That's like my ideal dessert.
So I wanted to create somethingthat was balanced and like I was
like most gluten-free cookiesare overly sweet and
sophisticated, like they're justbland or they just taste like
cardboard, and then they're alsogritty and grainy.
The whole experience is soupsetting that you don't even
want to like.
(15:23):
We're like obsess over sugarand butter, right, and a cookie
is just sugar, butter and flourand a little bit of vanilla,
like we are engineered to want acookie and so when you're
spitting it out, you're likethis is not.
I mean, it doesn't take a lotto get me to eat something.
It's a farming cookie.
I'll probably eat it.
(15:44):
It could be celery, it could bea cookie, it could be anything.
But to get me to spit somethingout is like it's a challenge,
and that's how inedible some ofthese products were.
So, yeah, I really am a verydetailed person, I'm a very
focused person, and I was likethis isn't just going to be a
good cookie, this isn't justgoing to be a good gluten-free
cookie, this is going to be thebest cookie I've ever tasted.
(16:04):
And so I put that amount oflike, energy and focus and
passion into all of my products.
I am extremely focused onquality and like.
Even though I've I mean, Icreated my gluten-free cookies.
My first cookie that I evercreated was the brown butter
chocolate chip, and even thoughI created that now it was 2017,
seven years ago, eight years agoI am still perfecting it.
(16:26):
I'm still looking for ways tomake my cookies better.
Now it's a little bit differentfrom just a recipe.
Now I'm always looking for waysto naturally improve the shelf
life, because when you make,it's one thing to make a cookie
and then eat it that same day orthe next day.
It's quite a different level ofscience and chemistry when
you're trying to make ashelf-stable product that is
(16:47):
going to be baked today butmaybe not consumed for nine
months.
So now I'm constantly lookingat new ways to create a
delicious shelf-stable,all-natural, preservative-free
cookie.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Right, yeah, and that alone right, it can be a
challenge.
And so, with that said right,have you worked with like food
scientists, or do you have ateam that has helped you or that
is helping you with that?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
That's a good question.
Well, I was lucky early on whenWhole Foods really supported me
in the beginning and I waslooking for like I was making
everything for the first year byhand and then quickly I went
from three stores to 10 stores,to an entire region and there's
no way I could package myself.
I had like two people in mykitchen.
I would rent kitchen space outin Queens you can rent like
(17:32):
commercial kitchens out there bythe hour so I'd rented for the
whole day and I had like twoassistants who would come in and
we'd mix dough and we'd bakedough and we packaged cookies
and I did this for a full year.
And then I got so big thatthere was no way.
Like, actually the baking ispretty fast.
You can make thousands ofcookies in like a half hour if
you have the right equipment.
But packaging the cookies takesforever and I think a lot of
(17:53):
people think that that part isautomated.
It's not.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
If you have, like, an Oreo, and every single Oreo is
exactly the same size and youare Nabisco, then yes, you have
a machine, but the majority ofus do not have machines that can
handle odd shaped cookies, sowe would do that by hand and I
outgrew it.
So I went to I needed aco-packer.
I needed someone who could dothis for me but still maintain
the hand-baked quality of mycookies, and Whole Foods helped
(18:22):
me find one, and they are stilldoing my co-packing.
They're excellent at it.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
If you have like food scientists or chefs there.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
My co-packer, the CEO , is a food scientist.
I will say and I've spoken topeople there's like I'm in New
York and there's RutgersUniversity who has a whole food
science and research laboratory.
My having done this now foreight years I would say that the
science doesn't exist forgluten-free and that's why the
(18:52):
products are so bad.
It's because wheat is atechnology and you have to think
of it not as an ingredient butas a technology.
And there's a reason why mostcultures are either rice-based
cultures or wheat-based culturesor both.
It's because rice and wheat aretechnologies but they're very
different from each other.
And when we use rice flour inour cookies and most gluten-free
flour mixes are going to haverice in them the problem with
rice the good thing about riceis very neutral flavored, so it
(19:14):
tastes good when you combine itwith butter and sugar.
The problem is it has one 400ththe amount of protein that
wheat flour has.
What makes wheat flour sogenius and such an incredible
technology is that it's neutralflavored, so it's very palatable
and it doesn't compete withlike if you add sugar to it.
Doesn't compete with you addcinnamon to it.
Doesn't compete with it,doesn't compete with any of the
ingredients that sort ofenhances them.
It also it browns reallybeautifully, which enhances it,
(19:37):
caramelizes and browns, so youget a beautiful color to it.
You also get an enhanced sortof caramel flavor to whatever
you're making, whether it'sbread or a cookie or pizza dough
.
That caramelization can be bothsavory and sweet and it's
delicious.
So you get the caramelization.
You also have protein, andprotein can be the right amount
of protein, the exact rightamount of protein in a wheat
(19:57):
flour so that you can mix itvery gently and fold in egg
whites and make a sponge cakeand it's very delicate and
fluffy and light.
Or you can eat the hell out ofit, make sourdough bread, and
it's going to be tough and chewybut also delicious.
And you have one ingredient.
One ingredient does all ofthose things and that is an
incredible technology.
(20:18):
Once you remove the wheat, youlose all of that.
You lose the color, you losethe texture, you lose the
protein, which is the structure.
You lose it all and there is noother grain that replaces it.
You can add sorghum flour,which a lot of companies do.
They add sorghum flour to theirrice blan.
Sorghum flour has almost thesame amount of protein as wheat
flour.
Sorghum flour is a wonderfulancient grain, but it doesn't
taste good.
(20:38):
It tastes like you could havesorghum with chicken piccata,
right?
So you have salt, you haveolives, you have all this flavor
to compete with the sorghum andthen it tastes fine.
You cannot add vanilla, whichis basically a perfume, right?
Vanilla comes from an orchid,it's an incredibly sophisticated
but delicate flavor, and youhave butter, which is also a
(20:58):
really delicate flavor and,competing with sorghum, all you
taste is the sorghum.
So there's no otherhigh-protein grain out there
that exists that is going togive you the same qualities and
technology as wheat with thesame neutral palette.
The only grain that's really, inmy opinion, comparable is rice,
but rice has no protein, whichmakes gluten-free baking nearly
impossible.
It's extremely challenging.
(21:19):
So what happens?
When manufacturers you've saidthey taste like cardboard or
taste gritty and it doesn'ttaste good, that's because the
rice doesn't have enough proteinto support the baked good, so
you have to add more flour andthen it becomes dry and gritty
and like cardboard, and so yourratio changes.
You also can't get like whatthe protein allows, like when
you put butter and fluid andliquid into the batter and then
(21:43):
that evaporates and the proteinin the flour allows it to expand
and create bubbles and then youget body so you can get
something that's very cakey andhas those little bubbles like
you get in bread.
Rice flour won't do that.
It doesn't flex, it's verybrittle.
So you can't get rice flour todo that.
So you can't get your product,your baked goods, to rise Very,
very challenging.
So the technology doesn't exist,despite the fact that my
(22:06):
co-packer is a certified foodscientist and a Columbia MBA,
very educated person.
He doesn't even like to bakegluten-free when I'm not there.
It's so hard and he makesmillions of like six million
cookies and he makes reallyspecialty cookies, like hand
(22:26):
decorated cookies, reallychallenging, not like not a
Chips Ahoy, things that havefilling in them, things that are
covered in caramel andchocolate, things that are hand
decorated, everything fromdouble brownies, everything.
He does all the specialtythings that look like bakery
products and he doesn't like tobake gluten-free.
That's how hard it is.
So, despite, like, I havespoken to records, I've spoken
(22:50):
to food scientists and I'venever really pursued them
because, to answer your question, this chemistry does not exist.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yeah, it sounds really difficult and you know
you haven't been able to justcreate this amazing product.
I think that it's amazing and,as you mentioned, you continue
to perfect things and trydifferent things, which I'm sure
is not an easy thing to do.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
No, and it's all been trial and error.
I've learned a lot.
I can talk about the chemistrya little bit better now.
I'm certainly not a foodscientist or any kind of
scientist, but it was a lot oftrial and error and I can make a
lot of recipes now.
But it was literally startingfrom scratch.
It was just a lot of failureuntil I started to succeed.
But it was many, many days andmany thousands of cookies of
(23:32):
failure before I started tofigure it out.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Right yeah, I mean that journey right yeah.
By the way, how do you come upwith the name Like what?
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Oh, I love that question, yeah, so when you look
at a lot of gluten-freeproducts, so I did not only
wanted my products to taste good, but I wanted it to be fun,
because a cookie should make yousmile, right, and cookie
packaging and cookie brandingshould also make you smile.
It should be fun, it should beflirty and it should be
enjoyable.
And if you look a lot of thegluten-free products, they've
been around a while and they'remaybe from the seventies or
(24:02):
eighties and, frankly, theirpackaging is uninspiring.
It's a little bit trite.
It's like white with some blueletters or an old man's face on
the package and you're like Idon't know if they had me in
mind when they made this and Iwanted it to be colorful and fun
.
I wanted the branding.
I didn't want it to beCarolyn's Gluten-Free, because
there's already Bob's, there'salready Lucy's, there's already
(24:25):
Abe's, there's alreadyeveryone's, everyone's
gluten-free.
And I was like it's not goingto be Carolyn's gluten-free, it
has to be something that's fun.
And so I honed it on Mighty,because Mighty is sort of like
Mighty Mouse that's where I gotit from Whereas, like this
children's cartoon, likeeveryone sort of identifies with
Mighty Mouse because he's asuperhero.
So, like, even grown men arelike Mighty Mouse, right,
(24:49):
because like superhero, and Ifound that that word really
resonated with people, that,like it reminded them of their
childhood, but they alsoidentified with it as adults.
And so then I had to come upwith Mighty what?
And that was hard and I hadlike dozens of names and all of
them weren't very good.
And then I was like, what aboutMighty Delicious?
And I looked up Mightyliciousand it was.
So it's not just your name, butyou have to be able to trademark
it, so it has to be not beentaken.
And even though there might notbe a brand out there, the
(25:16):
trademark had been taken, likein 1976, by someone.
It's just not in use.
So I found Mightylicious wasnot taken and I was like I love
it, it's fun, it's funny and itsort of sounds.
It's not necessarily soundslike a superhero, but it makes
you like smile when you say it.
And then we also have a mascot.
We have Charlie, who is ournon-binary unicorn.
I love that, and unicorns trendin every decade and Charlie is
(25:39):
non-binary and he's holding thepeace sign, he's got sunglasses
on and makes him cool and grownmen love him and little girls
love him and everything inbetween loves him.
Them yeah, yeah, and so it wasreally important to me that I
had a mascot and a fun name andbranding that was happy and
cheerful and makes you thinkthis cookie is going to make me
(26:01):
smile.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Right, yeah, I love the packaging for sure, and you
know that you have a mascotbecause you do as you're
creating a brand, right?
You need people to remember itand say I want to eat this
cookie or I want to eat thisproduct, as you mentioned it
brings a smile right, as opposedto like oh man, that's a sad
packaging.
Yeah, you don't want to eat it.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Exactly, and I was like when I think about fun as a
child, I think about like CocoaPuffs and Fruity Pebbles and we
were not very often allowed toeat that in my house, but when
we did it was a big deal and allthe cereal boxes have mascots.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
And I was like, yeah, we're gonna have a mascot,
right.
Yeah, I mean, it's amazing,love it.
What are the misconceptionsthat you've heard right or that
you've experienced with that?
That's about gluten free eatingright or gluten free, and we
kind of talked a little bitabout that right, just not the
flavor not been there.
But what are some of the commonmisconceptions that you've
heard?
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Yeah, I mean our biggest hurdle is, like I say
that misconception about celiacdisease is that it's not a real
thing, like that's a big hurdle.
Like there's skeptics about likeoh, just just eat this, like it
will make me sick immediately,like trace amounts of gluten
will make me very sick within180 seconds.
So that's a misconception Ithink that people have about
their allergy and also thedisease that a lot of people
(27:17):
discredit and don't take it veryseriously when it is very
serious.
I would say that my biggesthurdle is getting to the
consumer, because the consumeris so jaded by all the sort of
cardboard gritty productsthey've had and so just getting
someone to try my product is thebiggest hurdle.
Once they've tried it theybelieve.
But just getting them to takethat risk because they do
(27:39):
genuinely like gluten-freeproducts can be so disappointing
that it's generally people viewit as a risk to put a
gluten-free thing in their mouth.
Right, that's how bad thereputation is out there.
So that is the biggest hurdle.
I don't think that's amisconception, I think that's
fair, I think it's a survivalresponse.
(27:59):
People are traumatized, which iswhy I've learned, I've
developed a way to talk about myproducts that really makes
sense intellectually, so thatpeople feel a little bit more at
ease.
Be like, okay, someoneunderstands the chemistry, she's
really thought about this,she's spent a lot of time
developing it.
I know how to tell that storyso that the people will
literally open their mouth andtake a bite.
(28:21):
I have to negotiate, basicallyto get people to try it.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yeah, absolutely, and you build a powerful brand in
such a competitive space.
I think this is such animportant question in terms of
just being a woman owning abusiness, being an entrepreneur
in the food industry.
How has that been for you?
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yeah, it's hard.
There are other women in thiscategory and so there are a lot
of women in food.
When I go to these trade shows,there's many female
entrepreneurs.
A little bit as a millennial, Ifeel like we're still battling
conceptions or misconceptionsfrom the 1950s and 60s.
People still think that womenare starting businesses, and
(29:04):
that's just not true.
50% of CFOs in America arewomen and 30% of CEOs in America
are women, and the fastestgrowing group of entrepreneurs
in America are women, and thelargest, the fastest growing
group of entrepreneurs inAmerica are women, and 60% of
all college graduates in Americaare women.
30% of all of individuals whohave a million dollars net worth
(29:26):
or more are women, and so womenwere here and we are a force to
be reckoned with.
But I would say that, like inSTEM and private equity, finding
funding is still a challenge.
You still have sort of thatgood old boys club and the ideal
entrepreneur is a 24 to 28 yearold white male, and I knew that
, and so I didn't try to raisemoney from any private equity
(29:49):
people.
I was like I'm going to do itmyself, I don't need you and I'm
just going to figure it out onmy own, and that might make it
more challenging, but it alsomight open up opportunities.
I didn't know was there.
So when I started my company Ihad no intention of raising
capital, at least initially.
So in the beginning I opened upsome credit cards just using my
personal credit and that gaveme about $150,000.
(30:10):
And I only ordered enoughingredients, like I would get a
purchase order from Whole Foods.
I would only order enoughingredients and packaging to
fulfill that order and I madesure that I was creating my
packaging.
It helps that I have an artdegree as well, so I was able to
like buy a printer, like just aprinter from Staples.
I can print stickers and Idesigned my own packaging and
(30:30):
just put it on tintype coffeebags, and they loved that
packaging.
It was a great way to start.
So I only had to buy enoughingredients and packaging for
the order and that way I justhad $10,000 worth of revolving
debt that I would just put onthe credit card and then, once I
got paid, I paid it down and Inever accumulated any debt.
I managed the finances that wayuntil I grew to be two regions
(30:53):
and then I couldn't handle thatanymore and I took all the
success I'd had and all thisorganic success because I had no
marketing dollars.
I was literally just word ofmouth with how my product was
expanding and I went to acrowdfunding website and they
love my product and I raised $5million.
It took about a year to do that.
(31:14):
It wasn't a fast process, letme tell you.
It's good and fast.
It was not, and I raised $5million.
So I still don't have anystrategic investors.
Of course, I am to the pointwhere I am open to those now,
but prior to raising the capital, I actually had enough purchase
orders to get a loan from TDBank, a small business loan.
(31:36):
So I was able to get two smallbusiness loans from TD Bank at a
very reasonable interest rate.
That was like a fraction it waslike a quarter of the interest
rate of what I was paying on mycredit cards to help manage the
interim.
And then I raised $5 million incapital.
So there are resources outthere that don't require you to
do anything but submit anapplication.
There are small business loansyou do have to build up.
(31:57):
You have to show I havepurchase orders, I'm generating
revenue, but you don't have togo to a private equity firm and
convince them.
You're the next Elon Musk?
That's not necessary.
There are resources out there.
I also have a government SBAloan that I got because it was
around COVID when all this washappening.
It was actually 2020.
(32:17):
So I got that loan and all ofthis.
I got all those loans theprivate TD loan and then the SBA
loan and then about a yearlater I raised $5 million in
capital.
So there are definitelyresources out there.
The fact that I worked infinance and wealth management
helped.
I had a lot more exposure thanthe typical entrepreneur into
(32:38):
different types of debt vehiclesand different types of
financing, and I'm even learningabout them.
I just had a company cold callme and say we offer revolving
lines of credit and let's seehow much you qualify for.
And I sent them someinformation and they're like
here's a hundred.
And I was like great, yeah,I'll buy some ingredients.
So in this world, like comparedto when I started to where we
(32:59):
are, there are so many morelenders out there that are
legitimate, safe lenders thatare far more competitive than
the banks because they can takeon they don't have to be as
strict with their riskassessment as the banks, like a
bank is going to charge you themost and they're going to be the
difficult not difficult, butthey're going to have the
highest requirements to qualifyfor debt because they have all
these investors.
Jp Morgan has all theseinvestors.
(33:21):
They have a fortress balancesheet.
They can't fail.
They're more stingy with whothey give their debt to.
But there's more digitalcompanies that are smaller, that
are legitimate lenders.
They're newer companies andthey can lend against things
like oh, you have a purchaseorder, how much is that purchase
order for?
It's a purchase order for WholeFoods for $150,000.
(33:43):
Well, we can give you 15 grandand that's fantastic at a
reasonable rate.
And those are the types ofopportunities that are available
now.
They're open to everyone.
You can be male or female, theydo not care, and you can sort
of bankroll your company thatway until you're ready to raise
capital.
And then, once you haveestablished a brand and you have
(34:06):
multiple regions, then peoplewill be interested in you.
They don't care if you're maleor female, You've shown it, you
have the revenue and you havethe brand equity and all those
things.
Then it doesn't really matter.
It is still a little bit hard,but I never like.
I never think about it that way.
I just think about it as likeokay, so I have to find
different routes.
And you know what, maybe thoseroutes are better.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Yeah, I love the way that you see it right and more
of a positive way versus like aholding you back kind of way.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Yeah, yeah, I think that I was realistic about there
are certain stereotypes aroundwhat the investor should look
like.
It's not like, oh, we don'twant to invest in women.
It's just like they wouldrather invest in a 28-year-old
white male.
That's just what they thinksuccess looks like, and I knew
that and I just accepted thatand was like I'm going to find
my way around this.
(34:51):
And then once I think that tobe a successful entrepreneur or
any run a small business, youhave to be a creative person
creative in so many differentaspects of the industry and so
you have to be willing to do alittle bit more work.
And I'm grateful for all of thefinancing options I found,
because I was like I didn't knowthat you could get a loan for
(35:11):
this amount at this interestrate with so much risk.
That's wonderful, because I'vealways worked at big banks, yeah
, so yeah, I think that thedoors are opening for women.
I think that also, companiesare realizing that women are
good investments because womenmake good risks.
They take women, on average,take good risks, meaning that if
(35:32):
you had women in charge of thestock market, we wouldn't have
all these crashes.
Because women take good risks,meaning that if you had women in
charge of the stock market, wewouldn't have all these crashes,
because women take good risksand that's something that is
pretty well known, even at thecorporate banks.
Where you get into more of thetestosterone-driven industry, it
can be a little bit moreintimidating, but I worked as a
stockbroker like I can handleanyone.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
I love that.
It's amazing.
Bring it on yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
It doesn't make it easy.
I mean 99% of entrepreneursfail.
It doesn't matter what genderyou are.
It's hard to do.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Yeah, it truly is what has been your proudest
moment so far.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Oh, what a good question.
I don't know what my proudestmoment is.
No-transcript.
(36:42):
Even get my kids.
My kid has XYZ allergies and hewon't eat anything and he loves
your cookies and I can alwaysget them know that I can have
those and it's something that heneeds.
So if I have a toddler now andit's like you're not feeding
your toddler broccoli, you'rejust like please eat the gummy
bears, please eat something,because you're so hungry and
(37:02):
irrational.
Whatever you want, just eat it.
That's where I am.
My kids are pretty good eaters.
They're not as picky and theydon't have any allergies.
I can't imagine what parents aregoing through with their kids
who have food allergies and whenyou just want your kid to eat
because they're having theirsugar is too low and they're
like having a meltdown, whichhappens with little people.
So that obviously is veryimportant to me.
(37:25):
But I say I'm the proudest iswhen, like some dude comes up to
me and he's like mygirlfriend's gluten free and she
buys your cookies and yourpeanut butter cookie is my
favorite cookie and he's like Ihave no allergies and I'm not
vegan.
Right, like that is.
I'm like that's, that was thepoint.
Like I make a cookie foreveryone.
You just have to like cookies.
You don't have to begluten-free, you don't have to
(37:45):
be vegan, you don't have to evencare about being better for you
, you just have to like cookies.
So my cookie is a great product.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
You just have to like cookies to enjoy them, and they
just so happen to be allergenfriendly and better for you,
right?
Yeah, that's amazing thatsomeone that would probably not
just see the packaging and belike, oh, but I'm not vegan or
gluten free, you know, I don'thave any sensitivities but still
being able to be like, wow,this is a great cookie, right.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
I like that I eat these voluntarily.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Yeah, exactly that's awesome.
So what's next for MightyDelicious?
Are there any new products, newflavors coming soon?
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Yeah, so you tried my cookies, right?
Speaker 1 (38:22):
I have yes.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Did we send you any of our flour blends?
I?
Speaker 1 (38:25):
actually made some.
My youngest loves chickennuggets, right.
So I'm like, okay, I need tomake my own.
And I used the all-purposeflour and they came out really
good.
I mean, he ate them and I waslike, huh nice.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Yeah, so rice flour actually makes better
gluten-free nuggets than wheatflour because it's crispier yeah
, they were pretty crispy.
There are some things, like acracker or something that's
fried, where rice flour isactually going to perform better
than gluten because it doesn'thave the elasticity.
So, yes, so you can definitelyuse our flour to make chicken
nuggets.
It's going to go crispy anddelicious.
Yeah, so we just launched thisyear in March, march, april, I
(38:58):
think hit the shelves this April.
We have three flour blends.
We have an all-purpose flourblend, which is the one you
tried.
That flour blend is gluten-free.
It has whole milk powder in it,so it's not dairy-free.
We have a vegan flour blend,which is gluten-free and
dairy-free.
It has coconut milk powder init.
One of the ways that we replacethe protein in our flour blend
is with milk, either a wholemilk or coconut milk.
(39:22):
And that brings me back to whatI was talking about earlier,
about not wanting to use sorghumflour.
And I have nothing againstancient grains.
I love quinoa, I love garbanzobeans, I love lots of ancient
grains.
I just don't want them in mycookie.
I don't want in my cake or mycookie or things that are meant
to smell and taste like vanilla,so we only use rice flour.
What makes my cookie sodifferent is that we're, I think
(39:43):
, the only company that onlyuses rice flour as our base.
Everyone else uses an ancientgrain which has that acrid
aftertaste.
We specifically mill our riceflour to a speck.
I work with the rice growersand the mills to mill it so that
it's fine enough, so it's notgritty.
That allows us to eliminate theintegrated grain, and the way
we replace the protein is withwhole milk flour, coconut milk
(40:04):
flour.
So you get a cookie that iscompletely neutral on your
palate but has the structurethat you need and the softness,
the fluffiness that you need tobake with it.
Most people don't know this, butrice flour in the US is not
milled for baking.
It's milled for cooking.
It's not milled fine enough tobake with, which is why you get
that grittiness in your baking.
So I was telling this.
I was at a food show, which Ido four times a year to a buyer
(40:27):
and he goes.
I was explaining why my cookiestaste so good and he goes.
I love them.
I'm the flower buyer at Kroger,which is in the US, the largest
natural grocery store in the US.
It's bigger than anyone elseCan I buy?
your flower and I was like, yes,we make it, we make it by the
ton, but we just don't packageit.
So I created some packaging,sent him some samples.
He took two of the three I senthim, and so I have now two
(40:50):
flower blends that are availablefor retail.
They're going to be availablein Wake Fern in October as well,
here on the East Coast, and wehave a brownie, a vegan,
gluten-free brownie, and it ismy best-selling stew.
It's absolutely divine.
So that's what's new for us isour three flower blends.
They just hit the market thisApril and we're growing in
distribution.
We're already in Kroger.
(41:12):
We will be in Wake Fernern,which is um on the east coast.
This is my little person, right, who loves mommy's cookies,
right?
So, yes, yes, amazing, thoseare the best taste testers they
are.
She's the best sister.
She also helps me make recipesright they will give you an
honest response.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
Oh, yes, awesome, yeah, so many amazing products.
I can definitely wait to trythe vegan brownie one.
Um, so I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
We didn't send you that.
We should always send thatbecause it's like people just
freak out over it.
I just created, like Iobviously always want to make a,
a excellent product, but I waslike I need a third skew.
I have two flower skews, but Ineed three because that's always
better, and so I created thisbrownie really quickly and
people the response to it hasjust been overwhelming.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
That's awesome.
Yeah, just all the products and, I'm sure, the many more things
right that you'll continue tocreate.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
That's just the beginning.
I want to be like a better foryou brand, Like I want to be in
multiple aisles of the grocerystore, but I also I'm not trying
to saturate the market tooquickly.
I want to, like develop aproduct really establish it
Right.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Yeah, Awesome.
Where can they find?
Where can the listeners findyour?
Speaker 2 (42:26):
products.
How can they get ahold of them?
You can get my products atmightyliciouscom on our website.
We ship to all 50 States.
If you buy three bags or more,shipping is free.
It's just mightyliciouscom.
You can find us on amazoncom.
We have a storefront there.
You can buy all of our productsthere.
You can find us in manyretailers across the US.
We're in HEB in Texas.
We're in Mayhold Giant here inNew Jersey.
(42:48):
We're in HEB, we're in Giant,we're in Walmart all throughout
the East Coast.
We're in tons of naturalspecialty stores in the US, from
Chicago to San Francisco toTexas.
Texas is one of our biggestmarkets.
If you don't find us at yourlocal grocery store, always ask
Any product that you don't seeat your grocery store that you
buy on Amazon, ask about it,because if enough people ask the
(43:10):
local grocery stores, thateventually filters up to the
whoever is the person who is incharge of buying.
They don't want to guess whatyou need.
They want you to tell them.
So, of course, ask for it.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
And if you can't, ask if you can't find it.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
I'll make sure to add all that information,
specifically the website um andthe tips that you are providing
we also have and I forget it,but vicky has it we have a code,
a promo code specifically foryour listeners, so they can get
20% off on Amazon.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
Awesome.
Thank you.
I will make sure to get thatcode and add it in the show
notes.
Caroline, I know you're a busyperson.
I appreciate your time.
Thank you so much for coming tothe show and sending you lots
of good vibes and amazingsuccess.
Thank you so much.
You're welcome, take.
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