October 4, 2023 • 43 mins
Welcome to Trans Canada Stories!
Meet Emma (she/her) and Cyn (she/her) as Emma shares her transitioning story, and the two talk about the importance of access to gender affirming care, and the role of the queer community as a support resource.
Emma shares a beautiful story about her own transition, recalling how the experience drew her closer to not only her community, but to her mother as well.
Later in the show, Emma and Cyn speak with Felix Vandergrift (He/Him). Felix is a researcher and works in governmental relations. He is an active advocate for TGNB rights, access to gender affirming healthcare, supporting 2SLGBTQIA+ youth, harm reduction and human rights.
Felix recently underwent top surgery in Dartmouth thanks to the plastics team at the QEII and is continuing to push for more access to better gender affirming care for all TGNB folks in the province.
Felix's Literature Review
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1w93LegmDGp-NjYUpMIq96g_mhMe6gF_WK-7cMnkCMzY/edit
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Cyndi Sweeney (00:07):
Welcome to TransCanada Stories. I'm Cynthia
Sweeney, and I use sheherpronouns.
Emma Stanley (00:12):
I'm Emma Stanley. I use sheher pronouns.
In this podcast, we go beyondthe binary coast to coast,
telling the stories of transpeople as people. Cynthia and I
have been working together sincefall twenty twenty one. We
create workshops andpresentations focusing on trans
and non binary inclusion.
Cyndi Sweeney (00:32):
Inclusion everywhere. In businesses, both
small and large, in non profitsand in schools, right starting
from primary all the way up.
Emma Stanley (00:41):
But as we're talking to trans and cisgender
professionals across Canada,we've recognized a common need.
Not trans people as role modelsand heroes, but just stories
from trans people just beingpart of the Canadian experience
from a trans perspective.
Cyndi Sweeney (01:01):
A little later in today's show, we're going to
Emma Stanley (01:03):
be joined by Felix Vandergrift. Felix is a self
described open book in thespirit of joining community,
supporting one another, andbuilding bridges within that
community. They're also laserfocused on the current state of
the nation as it impacts thelives of trans people.
Cyndi Sweeney (01:19):
They are very interested in pushing forward
protections, but also joiningcommunity and having a unified
voice. So we're pretty excitedto connect with Felix. But
first, we wanted to kind of takeyou down about how TransCanada
Stories has evolved and how Emmaand I came together in the first
(01:43):
place. So as Emma had said, wemet, gosh, it was like a year
and a half ago now, two yearsago at this point. And it's
funny because up until just thispast January, so seven, eight
months ago, Emma and I had neverbeen in the same room together.
But we had been working togetherfor a year and a half virtually.
You were in New Brunswick andthen Thailand. And I had never
(02:07):
dreamed that Emma would be herein Canada and working with me in
this tiny little office everysingle day. But here she is.
Emma Stanley (02:16):
Yeah. No. I found it was interesting interacting
with someone with such adifferent experience of the
trans community. I know that oneof your children is trans and so
you're coming into this spacefrom that perspective. And I'm
coming in from a very differentway.
I am transgender and Itransitioned fairly late in life
(02:41):
from one perspective. Itransitioned when I was in my
mid thirties, so I had theexperience of doing my full sort
of young adult phase inpresenting as one gender and
then switching that presentationwhen I was sort of established
as an adult, which gives me sortof a unique perspective on being
(03:04):
trans and having sort ofexplored both sides of that.
Cyndi Sweeney (03:07):
Yeah. And as a parent of a trans child, I learn
so much from Emma every singleday. How you can perceive the
world as a cisgender person, assomebody who is not under the
choice LGBTQ plus rainbow. And Ithink you learn from me as well
from my perspective as a parentand trying to navigate allyship
and where that falls and what isgood allyship and maybe what is
(03:32):
maybe overstepping. And so we'relearning all the time and we
wanted to create this super funpodcast to connect with other
trans people from across Canadaor even beyond and just share
stories, have a chat and talkabout how we're all kind of just
navigating this unique andfabulous world, sometimes
(03:53):
challenging.
Emma Stanley (03:55):
Sometimes horrifying.
Cyndi Sweeney (03:56):
Sometimes slightly terrifying. But you
know what? Finding a light atthe end of the tunnel, finding
that glimmer around the rainbow.Where I kind of come to working
with Emma is I'm the founder ofSimply Good Form, which is a
consultancy, an educationalproduction company that produces
workshops and presentations,elevating the voices from within
(04:19):
the trans community in thespirit of educating with first
person voice through livedexperience. Emma and I, we've
been debating constantly forweeks about this podcast and
even this morning.
So Emma wants part of this tobe, you know, a spa day for
trans folks. Of course, we, youknow, there's a lot of, like,
(04:39):
heavy shit happening out therein the media, right? And, like,
we just wanna have some fun andsome good stories.
Emma Stanley (04:46):
A huge part of supporting the trans community
is showing stories of people whoare like just vibing. They are
trans and or non binary or partof the queer community but also
and separately they are justsuccessful in living their
lives. But the fact is that ifyou are part of queer community,
(05:13):
sort of one of the cornerstonesof that is just being alive is a
political act. And so we wecan't escape from a certain
amount of activism. And I don'tthink we should always escape
from the activism.
Cyndi Sweeney (05:24):
Yeah. I mean, it's typical. Part of the
extremist transphobia that we'reseeing all across North America
and right here in Canada at themoment, it's focused on trans
youth and it's focusing ontransitioning and the policing
of all of that. And so I thinkwe would be remiss if we didn't
talk a little bit about that.Even this week, while you're off
(05:46):
on holidays, I had a couple ofinterviews with two different
CBC reporters just aroundexactly what is unfolding here,
talking particularly about whatpeople should know around the
importance of giving space foryoung people to shine as their
true selves in a really sort ofscary and vulnerable time for
(06:09):
parents and caregivers of transchildren and youth, but also for
trans people themselves.
And I can put a link in the shownotes to those particular
articles. But today, we'd loveto talk a little bit about
demystifying transitioning fromour own sort of point of views.
But we'd love to hear if there'sany listeners out there who too,
after listening to this show,you might like to share with us
(06:32):
a bright light moment as itrelates to your own journey as a
trans person and whattransitioning means to you. And
I don't mean that as any kind ofone particular moment in time
because as we know, there'smany, many trickles of moments
in time over a person's life. Sothinking of that, Emma, I
totally remember when you firstshared part of your journey with
(06:54):
me.
And honestly, that gave megoosebumps. It invoked great and
deep emotions for me as a mom oftrans child Because you shared
with me this beautiful momentsort of behind the curtain and
just thinking of your ownresiliency and bravery, but also
the connections, the reallyunique connection that evolved
(07:17):
even between your mother and youduring that period of time.
Yeah. So my story it's alwaysthe trouble when I tell this
story. So to give listeners alittle bit
Emma Stanley (07:30):
of context, I do workshops. So telling parts of
my story, sometimes reallyintimate parts of my story, is
kind of part of my job. It'spart of the way that I have
decided to bring people intothis community and give them
perspective inside. And it'ssomething that I personally
don't mind doing. And I hope bysharing my story online, I'm not
(07:53):
encouraging or promoting theidea that trans people do have
to give the intimate details oftheir lives to strangers.
But frankly, I'm a hot gay messand I love oversharing. So here
goes. The other problem withtelling the story, and it
(08:16):
happens in workshops a lot isI'm never really sure where to
start because where's the startof a story?
Cyndi Sweeney (08:21):
Once upon a time Emma was in Thailand.
Emma Stanley (08:25):
Oh but it happened so much before Thailand right? I
realized I was trans in my late20s. I couldn't really do
anything about it until mymid-30s. I was living and
working as an English teacher ina few different countries across
The Middle East and Asia andsort of Southeast Asia and
eventually moved to Thailand forsurgery, which it was amazing
(08:51):
because I was in this immenselyprivileged position where I
could do that privately. Ididn't have to go through very
much in terms of Medicaresystems.
And the recovery process, forthose of you that don't know, at
least with the hospital that Iwent to, is you get a hotel for
(09:13):
a month. Nurses come every dayand you just are trapped in a
hotel room. And if you're verylucky, you have someone there
with you, and I was. My motherwas able to come out to
Thailand. It was, I think, thethird international trip that
she's ever made and probably thethe longest she's ever been away
(09:33):
from my dad.
So it was pretty scary for herand pretty scary for me. I think
the strangest part of it for mewas my dad wasn't there and he
decided not to be there, notbecause he wasn't supportive,
he's extremely supportive, butbecause he knew that this was a
(09:55):
chance for my mother and I toreally realign our relationship,
and that was a very intenseexperience, everything changed.
Please keep in mind that I againhad been teaching for a really
long time, for six or sevenyears at that point. I had
(10:15):
minimal face to face contactwith my family because they were
back in Canada and I didn't gethome much. So they hadn't been
given the opportunity to see orparticipate much in my social
transition.
I went away one person and thenext time they saw me, was a
very different person both inappearance and manner. And so it
(10:40):
was this brilliant time for usto share stories and reconnect
and reconnect under this newcontext mother and daughter. I
found the process of bottomsurgery to be so similar in
experience to the stories thatI've heard about childbirth.
(11:01):
Obviously, I've never beenthere, but the loss of your
sense of owning your own bodybecause you've got doctors and
nurses prodding at places thatyou never thought they would.
Trapped in a bed for way toolong.
The boredom of it was mirroredwhen I talked to my sister and
(11:21):
my mom about their experienceswith that. It did have this sort
of literal rebirthing vibe toit.
Cyndi Sweeney (11:31):
Although unlike childbirth, you're not stuck in
a room for four weeks afterwardswith your mother. Although maybe
I wish that I would have been.That would have probably been
really beneficial for me.
Emma Stanley (11:44):
Well, I mean, yeah, there was a lot of
storytelling. There was a lot ofreconnecting, but also this
other thing happened. This isone of Cynthia's favorite
stories.
Cyndi Sweeney (11:55):
It's gonna
Emma Stanley (11:55):
be a book. One of my favorite stories. Yeah. One
of the interesting things aboutthis hotel is that all of the
recipients of surgery from thisparticular clinic were there at
once. So we saw each other inthe hallways as we limped around
and there was this sort of quietrecognition there.
(12:16):
Even if we weren't saying hello,there was little nods in the
elevator and these nervouslittle sort of half waves to
girls at other tables because wewere all carrying the same you
have to sit on this pillow for amonth. So you saw someone else
with the pillow and you werelike, okay, comrade. Someone who
(12:38):
was about a week ahead of me inrecovery, a woman that I will
absolutely never forget, hadgone to the front desk and asked
if there was anyone who was sortof in this zone and they gave
her my name. She knocked on thedoor and came in and I was at
the worst part of it. You'rereally out of commission for the
(12:59):
first eleven days.
There's a catheter, there's alot of painkillers and it is no
fun. You can't get out of bed?Not really. You can but it is
not fun. She came in with thiscardboard box.
It had stuff done all over theoutside of it and the box was
full of support. And the ladywho dropped it off to me was
(13:24):
just really, extroverted andreally social. So she was, came
into the room and put the box onmy bed, introduced herself and
just said, Don't worry. You'regonna be okay. This cardboard
(13:46):
box full of love, it had boardgames.
It had pads. It had writingmaterials. It had notes and
drawn on the box from all of theother girls who it had been sort
of passed down to. Because whathappened was this box was
traveling room to roomthroughout the hotel. And that
(14:11):
as much as reconnecting with momwas this this moment of feeling
out this community and andfeeling the first tentative
touches of being connected tothis huge group of people and
this vast reservoir of love.
And it totally changed the waythat I see myself.
Cyndi Sweeney (14:36):
Was there one item that was in the box that
you remember the most or thatlike was like the most
important, like, moving
Emma Stanley (14:43):
Honestly, it was the board game sequence. You and
your mom played it? We did, andwe have been playing it since I
was a kid, because we had a copyof it at the house in Canada.
And so it was something we'ddone before, it was something
familiar, and then suddenly wejust had the opportunity to do
that in this place where I feltvery uncomfortable because of
(15:05):
the situation that my body wasin. And she felt very
uncomfortable because she was inan entirely new country where
she couldn't speak the languageand she was sort of stuck in a
hotel room with me, which she'sa very outside person and she
was suddenly transported to themiddle of one of the biggest
cities on the planet, Bangkok.
And so, yeah, some familiarityfor both of us was something
(15:27):
that was really positive.
Cyndi Sweeney (15:28):
And so you don't have the box anymore?
Emma Stanley (15:31):
No. I I passed it on. As it had been passed on to
me, when I left, I made sure atthe front desk that it was sent
to another person who is in herfirst few days. And I'm not
brave enough to barge into otherpeople's hotel rooms. And, you
know, there's there's a littlebit of regret there, I guess.
I kinda wish that I had, but Ileft a note and and and made
(15:54):
sure it was passed on. And Ihope that it's still being
passed around that that verystrange hotel.
Cyndi Sweeney (16:00):
I wonder maybe one day somebody will listen and
say, I had that box too. Andreach out to you.
Emma Stanley (16:06):
I hope so.
Cyndi Sweeney (16:06):
It would be beautiful.
Emma Stanley (16:08):
Transition is not something that is an event. It
is something that is ongoing.Sometimes I get frustrated with
the language around transitionbecause we are all transitioning
all of the time. We move fromone phase of our lives to the
next. And in some ways,transition is no different than
(16:29):
that.
You're just discovering a newpart of yourself and expressing
it the way people do with anynumber of partners or,
subcultures. In each of thosetransitions, in every one of
those transitions, findingcommunity and that support is
important to that process.Acceptance of transition is
(16:51):
huge. And part of why we'regoing to talk to Felix today is
about this idea of community andand being able to access it and
how a lot of people are tryingto block access to that exact
feeling.
Cyndi Sweeney (17:07):
Time to take a break from this TransCanada
Stories for a TD ConnectedCommunities moment.
Emma Stanley (17:13):
TransCanada Stories are your stories, and
we're all about connectingcommunities right across Canada.
We would love to hear from you.What topics would you like us to
cover? Do you know someone who'dlike to be a guest on the show?
Follow the link in the shownotes and share with us how can
we make TransCanada Storiesgreat for you.
That was a TD ConnectedCommunity moment because
community matters.
Cyndi Sweeney (17:35):
Okay. Well, we are welcoming Felix Vandergrift
to the show. Felix is aresearcher and works in
governmental relations. He is anactive advocate for TGNB, that's
transgender and non binaryrights, access to gender
affirming health care,supporting to us LGBTQIA plus
youth, harm reduction, and humanrights. Felix is from Nova
(17:59):
Scotia.
And while he has traveled forwork extensively, moved back
here with his spouse in 2017.Felix recently underwent top
surgery in Dartmouth, thanks tothe plastics team at the QE2,
and is continuing to push formore access to better gender
affirming care for TGNV,transgender and non binary folks
in the province. Welcome to theshow, Felix.
Felix Vandergrift (18:21):
Hi, I'm happy to be here. I'm excited to join
you today.
Cyndi Sweeney (18:24):
Well, we're super excited to have you too. And I
don't think you've actually hada chance to meet Emma in person,
even though Emma is veryfamiliar with you from our
Thriveworks program.
Emma Stanley (18:36):
Emma. So nice to meet you and glad So to have you
on the I saw from your bio thatyou're an active advocate. Can
you tell me a little bit moreabout that?
Felix Vandergrift (18:46):
Yeah, I think unfortunately we're still a
little bit in a time periodwhere most trans people I know
are on some level advocatingeither for themselves or for
their community. I have done alot of work even starting as
young as like 17 doing protestsand going to school in Montreal
(19:07):
was really an eye opener forthat because Montreal students
are on another level withprotests and learned a lot
there. But then as I've gottenolder, a lot of my advocacy work
has shifted to more behind thescenes stuff and being less
on-site, although I do try tostill be on-site and present,
(19:31):
but into a lot of policydevelopment. And I've learned a
lot through work that I've donewith indigenous communities on
advocating and doingconsultations with provincial
and federal governments. Andthat has helped a lot in terms
of like letter writing andproposal and grant writing and
things like that.
So that's what I spend a lot ofmy time doing. And once you
(19:53):
learn the language, because itis a different language when
you're dealing with stuff likethat, it's really easy to get
people's attention.
Cyndi Sweeney (19:59):
Have you had a lot of success? I know recently
you just reached out withregards to trying to connect
community around certainpolicies that are being proposed
out in Saskatchewan and rollingback gender affirming rights for
your students in New Brunswick.Tell us a little bit about where
you're at there.
Felix Vandergrift (20:15):
So I started writing a letter to our
education minister and itaccidentally, for better or for
worse, turned into a bit of apeer reviewed literature review.
And so part of my educationalbackground is looking at peer
reviewed journal articles fornot only advocacy, but bias.
(20:39):
Like, are they actually likepeer reviewed or is there some
like basically critical analysisand then taking those things and
turning it into language that iseasily transferable to other
folks. So I did a bit of a deepdive into the protection of
transgender, non binary andgender diverse students. And
(21:00):
ended up with like an eight ornine page review on the topic
and sent it to the educationminister.
And I actually was scheduled infor a meeting with the education
minister's people here, whichwas awesome. And we had a really
good initial first discussion onsort of and it's going to be
(21:21):
ongoing, obviously. So themeeting was good, but then the
other side of things that isreally awesome is just in
personal networks, a lot ofpeople have reached out for
copies of said letter and havebeen copy and pasting some of
that research into their ownletters to then go to the
minister and the premier, bothin New Brunswick and Nova
(21:45):
Scotia. So that's been reallynice and good to see both
parents and other 2SLGBTQIAadvocates.
Cyndi Sweeney (21:54):
That's wonderful that you're really helping to
bridge community. And perhaps ifyou'd like to share a copy of
the letter, we can put it in theshow notes for others who are
maybe wanting to get involvedand be proactive, but not
knowing how to do that. Theycould perhaps use that letter as
a starting point.
Felix Vandergrift (22:09):
Absolutely. I mean, you get unfortunately
working or fortunately orunfortunately, however you want
to look at it, you get a littlebit of an education when you
start working in consultation.And some people don't even know
where to send the letters to. Soin that letter, have CC'd all of
the people that I feel aredirectly sort of tied into that.
And it's all MLAs or ministersresponsible for youth or
(22:35):
ministers responsible for theHuman Rights Act, specifically
the education minister becausethat is her wheelhouse.
But it never hurts to kind ofspread it far and wide. I find
that people, especiallyministers tend to react more to
letters that are written and notjust a copy standard paste
thing. So I advocate for peopleto take pieces of it, but then
(22:57):
put their own anecdotes. Be itlike you have a kid in your life
who is trans that you want toprotect, or you're a teacher, or
you've been involved in theschools and somehow, or you are
an LGBTQ person who wants toadvocate for this and just put
your own anecdotes in it. Andyou'll see in the letter that
I'll happily share, put my ownpersonal anecdotes about growing
(23:18):
up here and going through thepublic school system and how it
didn't make me less trans orless gay, it just took longer to
get there.
Cyndi Sweeney (23:27):
Right. Yeah. It was like not A to B, it was more
A to C to B to
Emma Stanley (23:32):
D and then to F, maybe back
Cyndi Sweeney (23:34):
to Yeah. You had said in the bio that we were
just reading out that you arejust recovering from top
surgery. And we've been talkingabout affirming care and a
little bit about transitioningon the show so far. And you had
mentioned about the importanceof just having visibility for
(23:55):
others that are coming upunderneath to be able to look
out and see other people thatare positively living their
lives and that maybe havetransitioned or haven't
transitioned but sharingexperiences. So first of all, do
you want to tell us how is therecovery going?
How are you doing?
Felix Vandergrift (24:10):
Well, recovery has been really well.
My surgeons are very happy andI'm very happy. There was a
first couple of weeks that werea little worth it, but
definitely painful. But I'm nowat the point where it's kind of,
I think I'm almost to that threemonth mark. And you could still
(24:30):
see me, like, I know it's avisual thing, but on the video
I'm holding my chest becausethat's like a natural, like I
did that so often.
I caught myself the other dayrunning down the stairs and just
like holding my chest. Yeah. Butit's just starting to sort of
like sink in that like this isthe body now that I get to wear
(24:51):
every day. That's kind of reallyincredible. And my brain is
finally, you know, I get to lookin the mirror and see kind of
who I have always thought wasthere.
And that's kind of really wild,you know, when I first started
transitioning, you know, thosefilter, the face filters, right?
With the beard and stuff likethat. I had so, if you go back
(25:13):
through my camera roll, there'sdozens of photos of me using
those filters and it's kind ofreally, really intense and
overwhelming in a very positiveway these days to sort of see
that person kind of coming outthroughout the transition.
Emma Stanley (25:35):
So I was doing a workshop recently, and I got
asked kind of an interestingquestion. And I'm I'm curious
what your response to it wouldbe. The question was this. When
you introduce yourself as atrans woman with the adjective,
what are you hoping to get outof that? What are you trying to
achieve?
(25:55):
And, like, it said it was suchan unexpected question because
it was a pretty focusedworkshop. But to rephrase it,
what are you hoping to achieveby being so open about both
being trans and the process oftransition?
Felix Vandergrift (26:14):
I think that, I mean, first of all, that's a
really interesting question. AndI always, I love when people
sort of frame that as like,well, I'm just a cis woman or
I'm just a man and I just exist,right? So why do you have to
make it about being trans,right? Yeah. That's common and
of course, there's a lotattached to that.
(26:38):
But what like to try and expressto people is there seems to be a
bit of a myth that trans peopleare new, trans trenders, it's
new fad, know, it's a new thing.And you know, we know especially
like working in indigenouscommunities that A) that's not
(26:58):
true. Transgender nonconformingdifferent ideas of gender and
sex have existed for as long ashumans have. The Mi'kmaq are
earliest recorded, know,instances of Mi'kmaq in in in
what is Mi'kmaqi now known asNova Scotia is thirteen thousand
(27:18):
years. So if if they've beenaround that long, well, we don't
have sort of like paper
Emma Stanley (27:23):
here. Yeah.
Felix Vandergrift (27:24):
You know? But I suspect that, you know, these
these are these are millennialmillennia old ideas. Yeah. And,
you know, you can find those incultures all across the world.
And then specifically, if youlook at our more recent history,
so my spouse is historian andspecifically focused on the
(27:47):
first and second world wars.
There was an entire institutededicated to understanding trans
health and mental health andmedical transitioning. And it
was specifically targeted, burntdown and destroyed by Nazis.
History doesn't repeat itself,but it does rhyme. And it's
really important when you lookat the steps that are being
(28:09):
taken right now against sort ofLGBTQ communities and
specifically trans and gendernon binary communities. Like
this is a targeted attack and itis meant specifically to
suppress and oppress thosegroups who are proposing
opposition to fascist, whitenationalism, racism, domestic
(28:33):
terror, like that whole icebergof individuals.
So when I talk about visibilityand stuff and why I introduce
myself as trans or why I'mtrying to live very visibly,
it's because I know, first ofall, and most importantly, our
elders, there's a reason they'renot in abundance. There's a
reason that we don't have anabundance of elders to look to.
(28:59):
They were either killed, theyunfortunately succumbed to
suicide, homelessness, drugaddiction, a whole plethora of
things. Those reasons are deeplyrooted in the fact that they
were either not able to bethemselves, they were jailed for
being trans, they were murdered.There's so many historical
(29:22):
reasons why we don't haveelders.
And the elders we do have arevery few and far between. And
some of them still to this daydon't feel safe living out loud.
And so I look at that as it ismy job to become an elder, a
trans elder. It is my job tolive to a ripe old age. Yeah.
(29:46):
And pass along those stories. Solike, if all I do is exist out
of spite so that I can pass onlearned history, that's, you
know, but then also looking toour future, right? Like, I grew
up in Nova Scotia and I had zeroaccess to trans literature. I
had zero access to what it meantto be a queer person. I had
(30:07):
nobody I knew in my life.
My babysitter had her brotherwho lived in Montreal. That was
the only gay person I knew andhe wasn't around very often. So
I'm like proof in the puddingthat just because you don't have
access to those things is notgoing to stop you from being
those things, but it is stoppingyou from finding community. And
I look at our youth who aretrying to come through in this
(30:28):
sort of moral panic aroundtransness. And there is no other
word for it.
It is a moral panic becauseliterally all trans people want
to do is just exist. And thereis kids that are coming up right
now who cannot see themselvesgraduating high school. And that
(30:49):
absolutely just brought my soul.
Cyndi Sweeney (30:52):
Especially when we have the human rights in
place, especially when we have,you know, Bill C-sixteen. And
you know, it's like for me, Ithink it just such a
contradiction when my child cameand told me that they're trans
and I did not know what thatmeant. Yet I had gone to post
(31:13):
secondary school. I have twodegrees. Try to be the best
parent that I can be.
And I wasn't able to supportthem for the first ten years of
their life. And that enrages me.And also it just really upsets
me that if I had known a littlebit more and had the right
information, I could haveprobably helped them sooner
(31:34):
instead. And so if you're gonnalive to be a ripe old age out of
spite, I am so grateful for yourspitefulness. It brings
Emma Stanley (31:43):
me to another related question and that's, do
you feel optimistic that intwenty years time, in forty
years time, we will have elders,we will have the sort of support
structures that certainly youand I were missing?
Felix Vandergrift (32:04):
I hope so. But I
Emma Stanley (32:07):
Is there an are there enough of us who are going
to take on that challenge of ofliving openly out of spite?
Felix Vandergrift (32:14):
Yeah. I mean, I hope so. And and I will do it
for as long as I can, even if itimpacts my safety, I will do it
for as long as I can, for asmuch as I can, as loud as I can.
But to bring it back to thepoint of like, if you look back,
(32:34):
one of the reasons I say eldersare important, my grandmother,
unfortunately she's alreadypassed, but we had a really
interesting discussion on justeven women's rights when they
started in the country. And shewas one of the first people that
she knew in her friend group whogot a credit card with her name
on it because she was workingand it was her money.
(32:56):
And when it first came, it said,Mrs. And then my grandfather's
name and then the last name. Andshe called and was like, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no. And like, ifyou think about that right now,
if you as a woman, regardless ofwhether you're married or not,
you don't think twice aboutgoing and applying for a credit
card because it's your money,right? So I'm kind of hoping as
(33:20):
not only as adults, as we areliving out loud and we're
impacting and rippling out intoour circles and we are changing
mindsets of people and friendsand family members and things
like that, that as kids start tocome up in through the ranks,
we're also then spreading thatlike, you know, that joy because
(33:40):
trans joy is resistance andtrans existence is resistance.
We've always been here, we'regoing to keep being here, but
how we exist here is what we getto decide. And I for one am, I
will not stop hoping that I canmake it at least a little easier
(34:01):
reach one parent or I'm going toreach one teacher that is going
to be gentler and more acceptingkids that are coming through so
that that kid can then go on andbecome the next elder. That's
the whole goal.
Cyndi Sweeney (34:16):
Firmly believe that because Stats Canada has
only just started to evenacknowledge transgender people
and the number that exists is solow. But we're seeing statistics
now like fifty six percent ofGen Zers know someone who uses
theythem pronouns. Exactly. Andat that, I said to these parents
(34:36):
that are very worried for theirown children that you know what?
The numbers are so much biggerthan people even know.
And that these numbers are onlygoing to keep growing as we have
these conversations and as wehave positive visibility. And so
it becomes a lot more difficultto bully a population of people
(34:58):
when it's a large group ofpeople standing together. And so
I kind of think, watch outbecause I feel like there's
enough people that are standingup now that are really rallying
in this time. See it EgalCanada, I see PFLAG Canada. I
see smaller groups from acrossCanada that are just saying, no
way, no, this is not happening.
(35:19):
And we all deserve theseequitable rights to exist in the
world. So I'm hopeful. I amhopeful.
Felix Vandergrift (35:25):
In my letter that I put to the minister and
you can see it there, it's areally interesting anecdote that
I equivalent transness andexisting openly as a trans
person with left handedness. Inthe early 1900s, being left
handed in schools often got youostracized. It would get you
beat by teachers. It would belike, it's a big deal, right?
(35:48):
Now, lot of that is rooted inChristian ideals.
That's not to say that allChristians are bad. I'm not
saying any of that. But a lot ofthat is tied to the fact that
left handedness was related toSatan being satanic or being
evil, right? So kids would hidebeing left handed and force
themselves to try and learn withtheir right hand, regardless of
(36:08):
whether or not they were. Andthen in the 1950s, 60s, around
that time, it became a normalthing.
And we saw the amount of lefthanded people just skyrocket.
And everyone was like, oh mygod, where are these left handed
people coming from? Right? Like,they were hitting them. They've
(36:30):
always been there.
An interesting thing happened isaround the seventies, eighties,
it plateaued and it just sort ofstopped, like it exploded, but
then it plateaued. And that'sbecause regardless of whether
people are being beaten orostracized or whatever, they're
still there. They just are notable to exist safely. I suspect
(36:56):
and I am able comfortablyconservatively saying about one
to two percent of the populationis trans. And when we look at
these school platforms and theseanti LGBTQ platforms, I think I
mentioned this to you the otherday, Cynthia.
One, two, maybe three kids in anentire school are going to be
(37:19):
trans, non binary, gender nonconforming. That might grow. I
can't see it being like 500 kidsin one school. And so, you know,
I really want lawmakers,policymakers, researchers,
parents, everyone to startthinking about it. It's like, so
you're going to go about all ofthis for what, three kids in a
school, four kids in a school.
(37:42):
You're going to really do all ofthat. Maybe in a few years, we
might see more peopleidentifying as trans, non
binary, sure. But it willplateau once it stops becoming
this very exhausting,potentially dangerous situation
to be trans.
Emma Stanley (37:58):
One of the common critiques activism for trans
people gets is that it is such asmall proportion of the
population and everyone's beingasked to do all this effort for
a very small number of people.Now given the argument you just
made about you're going to spendall this effort attacking this
small number of people, what'syour response to the idea that
(38:20):
maybe this isn't an efficientway to spend our dollars and our
time?
Felix Vandergrift (38:26):
Yeah. I get that question a lot. It's like,
oh, what? So we're gonna writein policy to protect one or two
kids? Like, you know?
So that I would say usingpronouns and names are free.
Those things are free. That'sharm reduction. And we have
proven that's how, westatistical evidence to prove
that that's harm reduction.Education ministers, anybody
(38:47):
that's doing policy development,that's free.
That is an easy, easy win. Thatis totally 100% free. And you
are then keeping those kids fromsuicidal ideation. You're
keeping those kids from druguse, abuse, victimization. Why
would you not implementsomething that is free, first of
(39:07):
all?
And secondly, there seems to bean idea that we don't need to
look after the very small groupsof people. And that's not a
trans experience exclusively.That is also disabled folks.
That is also that's also blackcommunities. That's also
indigenous communities becausethey represent a small portion.
(39:27):
And I would say in that regard,if you add up all of those
people, we might all havedifferent backgrounds,
ethnicities, gender ID, orsorry, gender expressions, that
sort of thing. But thesolidarity in that group usually
means it's a much bigger groupthan just one or two people. And
(39:48):
if we start having conversationswith people around those one or
two trans people and how it'svery easy to just change a
little thing in your language,right? Or use a pronoun
differently. That ripples outinto care for other folks.
So that ripples out into, well,why are we building a new
(40:11):
building without any wheelchairramps? Why are we building an
airport on Mi'kmaq territorythat has no art featured by or
history featured about land thatthese people are, you know? So
like there's those conversationssnowball.
Emma Stanley (40:30):
It's something that we teach in the workshops
here at work where inclusion isa mindset. And regardless of
your entry point into thatmindset, once you get there,
it's going to affect everysingle person in your life.
Felix Vandergrift (40:44):
In a positive way. Yeah, absolutely. You're
lucky if you do not have towrite letters or you are not
impacted by a policy, right? Andhow wonderful would that be to
wake up every day and not beaffected by climate change, not
be affected by inflation, not beafflicted by chronic illness and
(41:07):
not have a disability, not haveLike we're all just trying to
exist. Yeah.
Cyndi Sweeney (41:13):
We're just trying to exist.
Felix Vandergrift (41:14):
Right now, we're all trying to afford
Cyndi Sweeney (41:15):
groceries. Wow.
Felix Vandergrift (41:18):
What do say?
Cyndi Sweeney (41:19):
Groceries? What are groceries? If
Felix Vandergrift (41:23):
you can call Dwayne Johnson the rock or you
can pronounce, you know, AnnaKournikova or like, if you're
okay doing that and you're notokay using a trans person's
pronouns, I have a lot ofquestions
Cyndi Sweeney (41:36):
for you. And that's all it is though. Right?
Felix, you've made so manyawesome points here. I think
that hopefully listeners have somany great pieces to take away
and to think about.
And I just hope that we can allkind of go forward. My biggest
goal is I just want to leave theworld a slightly better place
than when I was there. I alwayslike there's a book I used to
(41:57):
read to my kids called The LupinLady. And she would spread seeds
of lupins and didn't reallythink about what she was doing.
But she was making the world amore beautiful place because
after she was gone, all of theseflowers came up and they would
grow and spread.
And so we're just about out oftime here, but I wanted to give
you an opportunity if there'sanything else you wanted to
share.
Felix Vandergrift (42:15):
It's really important, I think right now,
given the political climate fortrans people to know, it's not
so much misery loves company,but dysphoria, transphobia, all
of those things tend to shrinkwhen we're around other trans
non binary folks and supporterswho understand, who have been
(42:35):
through similar things andcommunity is so critically
important. Don't let it bediminished if it's online, if
it's through text, if it's onInstagram, that does not
diminish that relationship atall. I think it's really, really
important for cis people intheir lives right now, check-in
on your trans friends, we're notokay. We are going through it.
(43:01):
But also, yeah, just it costsnothing to be kind, and it's
it's a very easy thing to justbe a little gentler and a little
kinder.
Emma Stanley (43:12):
Alright. Well, Felix, thank you so much for
coming on to the show. It's beenwonderful to talk, and, we'll
have you on again soon.
Felix Vandergrift (43:20):
Yeah. Absolutely. Anytime. This is
Athena has my cell phone number,so I'm I'm never
Cyndi Sweeney (43:24):
Oh, yeah.
Emma Stanley (43:27):
Fantastic.
Cyndi Sweeney (43:28):
Thanks, Felix. Have a great afternoon.
Felix Vandergrift (43:31):
Thanks.
Cyndi Sweeney (43:34):
It's the end of the road for this episode of
TransCanada Stories.
Emma Stanley (43:38):
If you'd like more information on our other
programming, check outsimplygoodform.com. We hope
you'll subscribe to our podcastand that we'll see you again
next time.
Welcome to TransCanada Stories. I'm Cynthia
Sweeney, and I use sheherpronouns.
Emma Stanley (00:12):
I'm Emma Stanley. I use sheher pronouns.
In this podcast, we go beyondthe binary coast to coast,
telling the stories of transpeople as people. Cynthia and I
have been working together sincefall twenty twenty one. We
create workshops andpresentations focusing on trans
and non binary inclusion.
Cyndi Sweeney (00:32):
Inclusion everywhere. In businesses, both
small and large, in non profitsand in schools, right starting
from primary all the way up.
Emma Stanley (00:41):
But as we're talking to trans and cisgender
professionals across Canada,we've recognized a common need.
Not trans people as role modelsand heroes, but just stories
from trans people just beingpart of the Canadian experience
from a trans perspective.
Cyndi Sweeney (01:01):
A little later in today's show, we're going to
Emma Stanley (01:03):
be joined by Felix Vandergrift. Felix is a self
described open book in thespirit of joining community,
supporting one another, andbuilding bridges within that
community. They're also laserfocused on the current state of
the nation as it impacts thelives of trans people.
Cyndi Sweeney (01:19):
They are very interested in pushing forward
protections, but also joiningcommunity and having a unified
voice. So we're pretty excitedto connect with Felix. But
first, we wanted to kind of takeyou down about how TransCanada
Stories has evolved and how Emmaand I came together in the first
(01:43):
place. So as Emma had said, wemet, gosh, it was like a year
and a half ago now, two yearsago at this point. And it's
funny because up until just thispast January, so seven, eight
months ago, Emma and I had neverbeen in the same room together.
But we had been working togetherfor a year and a half virtually.
You were in New Brunswick andthen Thailand. And I had never
(02:07):
dreamed that Emma would be herein Canada and working with me in
this tiny little office everysingle day. But here she is.
Emma Stanley (02:16):
Yeah. No. I found it was interesting interacting
with someone with such adifferent experience of the
trans community. I know that oneof your children is trans and so
you're coming into this spacefrom that perspective. And I'm
coming in from a very differentway.
I am transgender and Itransitioned fairly late in life
(02:41):
from one perspective. Itransitioned when I was in my
mid thirties, so I had theexperience of doing my full sort
of young adult phase inpresenting as one gender and
then switching that presentationwhen I was sort of established
as an adult, which gives me sortof a unique perspective on being
(03:04):
trans and having sort ofexplored both sides of that.
Cyndi Sweeney (03:07):
Yeah. And as a parent of a trans child, I learn
so much from Emma every singleday. How you can perceive the
world as a cisgender person, assomebody who is not under the
choice LGBTQ plus rainbow. And Ithink you learn from me as well
from my perspective as a parentand trying to navigate allyship
and where that falls and what isgood allyship and maybe what is
(03:32):
maybe overstepping. And so we'relearning all the time and we
wanted to create this super funpodcast to connect with other
trans people from across Canadaor even beyond and just share
stories, have a chat and talkabout how we're all kind of just
navigating this unique andfabulous world, sometimes
(03:53):
challenging.
Emma Stanley (03:55):
Sometimes horrifying.
Cyndi Sweeney (03:56):
Sometimes slightly terrifying. But you
know what? Finding a light atthe end of the tunnel, finding
that glimmer around the rainbow.Where I kind of come to working
with Emma is I'm the founder ofSimply Good Form, which is a
consultancy, an educationalproduction company that produces
workshops and presentations,elevating the voices from within
(04:19):
the trans community in thespirit of educating with first
person voice through livedexperience. Emma and I, we've
been debating constantly forweeks about this podcast and
even this morning.
So Emma wants part of this tobe, you know, a spa day for
trans folks. Of course, we, youknow, there's a lot of, like,
(04:39):
heavy shit happening out therein the media, right? And, like,
we just wanna have some fun andsome good stories.
Emma Stanley (04:46):
A huge part of supporting the trans community
is showing stories of people whoare like just vibing. They are
trans and or non binary or partof the queer community but also
and separately they are justsuccessful in living their
lives. But the fact is that ifyou are part of queer community,
(05:13):
sort of one of the cornerstonesof that is just being alive is a
political act. And so we wecan't escape from a certain
amount of activism. And I don'tthink we should always escape
from the activism.
Cyndi Sweeney (05:24):
Yeah. I mean, it's typical. Part of the
extremist transphobia that we'reseeing all across North America
and right here in Canada at themoment, it's focused on trans
youth and it's focusing ontransitioning and the policing
of all of that. And so I thinkwe would be remiss if we didn't
talk a little bit about that.Even this week, while you're off
(05:46):
on holidays, I had a couple ofinterviews with two different
CBC reporters just aroundexactly what is unfolding here,
talking particularly about whatpeople should know around the
importance of giving space foryoung people to shine as their
true selves in a really sort ofscary and vulnerable time for
(06:09):
parents and caregivers of transchildren and youth, but also for
trans people themselves.
And I can put a link in the shownotes to those particular
articles. But today, we'd loveto talk a little bit about
demystifying transitioning fromour own sort of point of views.
But we'd love to hear if there'sany listeners out there who too,
after listening to this show,you might like to share with us
(06:32):
a bright light moment as itrelates to your own journey as a
trans person and whattransitioning means to you. And
I don't mean that as any kind ofone particular moment in time
because as we know, there'smany, many trickles of moments
in time over a person's life. Sothinking of that, Emma, I
totally remember when you firstshared part of your journey with
(06:54):
me.
And honestly, that gave megoosebumps. It invoked great and
deep emotions for me as a mom oftrans child Because you shared
with me this beautiful momentsort of behind the curtain and
just thinking of your ownresiliency and bravery, but also
the connections, the reallyunique connection that evolved
(07:17):
even between your mother and youduring that period of time.
Yeah. So my story it's alwaysthe trouble when I tell this
story. So to give listeners alittle bit
Emma Stanley (07:30):
of context, I do workshops. So telling parts of
my story, sometimes reallyintimate parts of my story, is
kind of part of my job. It'spart of the way that I have
decided to bring people intothis community and give them
perspective inside. And it'ssomething that I personally
don't mind doing. And I hope bysharing my story online, I'm not
(07:53):
encouraging or promoting theidea that trans people do have
to give the intimate details oftheir lives to strangers.
But frankly, I'm a hot gay messand I love oversharing. So here
goes. The other problem withtelling the story, and it
(08:16):
happens in workshops a lot isI'm never really sure where to
start because where's the startof a story?
Cyndi Sweeney (08:21):
Once upon a time Emma was in Thailand.
Emma Stanley (08:25):
Oh but it happened so much before Thailand right? I
realized I was trans in my late20s. I couldn't really do
anything about it until mymid-30s. I was living and
working as an English teacher ina few different countries across
The Middle East and Asia andsort of Southeast Asia and
eventually moved to Thailand forsurgery, which it was amazing
(08:51):
because I was in this immenselyprivileged position where I
could do that privately. Ididn't have to go through very
much in terms of Medicaresystems.
And the recovery process, forthose of you that don't know, at
least with the hospital that Iwent to, is you get a hotel for
(09:13):
a month. Nurses come every dayand you just are trapped in a
hotel room. And if you're verylucky, you have someone there
with you, and I was. My motherwas able to come out to
Thailand. It was, I think, thethird international trip that
she's ever made and probably thethe longest she's ever been away
(09:33):
from my dad.
So it was pretty scary for herand pretty scary for me. I think
the strangest part of it for mewas my dad wasn't there and he
decided not to be there, notbecause he wasn't supportive,
he's extremely supportive, butbecause he knew that this was a
(09:55):
chance for my mother and I toreally realign our relationship,
and that was a very intenseexperience, everything changed.
Please keep in mind that I againhad been teaching for a really
long time, for six or sevenyears at that point. I had
(10:15):
minimal face to face contactwith my family because they were
back in Canada and I didn't gethome much. So they hadn't been
given the opportunity to see orparticipate much in my social
transition.
I went away one person and thenext time they saw me, was a
very different person both inappearance and manner. And so it
(10:40):
was this brilliant time for usto share stories and reconnect
and reconnect under this newcontext mother and daughter. I
found the process of bottomsurgery to be so similar in
experience to the stories thatI've heard about childbirth.
(11:01):
Obviously, I've never beenthere, but the loss of your
sense of owning your own bodybecause you've got doctors and
nurses prodding at places thatyou never thought they would.
Trapped in a bed for way toolong.
The boredom of it was mirroredwhen I talked to my sister and
(11:21):
my mom about their experienceswith that. It did have this sort
of literal rebirthing vibe toit.
Cyndi Sweeney (11:31):
Although unlike childbirth, you're not stuck in
a room for four weeks afterwardswith your mother. Although maybe
I wish that I would have been.That would have probably been
really beneficial for me.
Emma Stanley (11:44):
Well, I mean, yeah, there was a lot of
storytelling. There was a lot ofreconnecting, but also this
other thing happened. This isone of Cynthia's favorite
stories.
Cyndi Sweeney (11:55):
It's gonna
Emma Stanley (11:55):
be a book. One of my favorite stories. Yeah. One
of the interesting things aboutthis hotel is that all of the
recipients of surgery from thisparticular clinic were there at
once. So we saw each other inthe hallways as we limped around
and there was this sort of quietrecognition there.
(12:16):
Even if we weren't saying hello,there was little nods in the
elevator and these nervouslittle sort of half waves to
girls at other tables because wewere all carrying the same you
have to sit on this pillow for amonth. So you saw someone else
with the pillow and you werelike, okay, comrade. Someone who
(12:38):
was about a week ahead of me inrecovery, a woman that I will
absolutely never forget, hadgone to the front desk and asked
if there was anyone who was sortof in this zone and they gave
her my name. She knocked on thedoor and came in and I was at
the worst part of it. You'rereally out of commission for the
(12:59):
first eleven days.
There's a catheter, there's alot of painkillers and it is no
fun. You can't get out of bed?Not really. You can but it is
not fun. She came in with thiscardboard box.
It had stuff done all over theoutside of it and the box was
full of support. And the ladywho dropped it off to me was
(13:24):
just really, extroverted andreally social. So she was, came
into the room and put the box onmy bed, introduced herself and
just said, Don't worry. You'regonna be okay. This cardboard
(13:46):
box full of love, it had boardgames.
It had pads. It had writingmaterials. It had notes and
drawn on the box from all of theother girls who it had been sort
of passed down to. Because whathappened was this box was
traveling room to roomthroughout the hotel. And that
(14:11):
as much as reconnecting with momwas this this moment of feeling
out this community and andfeeling the first tentative
touches of being connected tothis huge group of people and
this vast reservoir of love.
And it totally changed the waythat I see myself.
Cyndi Sweeney (14:36):
Was there one item that was in the box that
you remember the most or thatlike was like the most
important, like, moving
Emma Stanley (14:43):
Honestly, it was the board game sequence. You and
your mom played it? We did, andwe have been playing it since I
was a kid, because we had a copyof it at the house in Canada.
And so it was something we'ddone before, it was something
familiar, and then suddenly wejust had the opportunity to do
that in this place where I feltvery uncomfortable because of
(15:05):
the situation that my body wasin. And she felt very
uncomfortable because she was inan entirely new country where
she couldn't speak the languageand she was sort of stuck in a
hotel room with me, which she'sa very outside person and she
was suddenly transported to themiddle of one of the biggest
cities on the planet, Bangkok.
And so, yeah, some familiarityfor both of us was something
(15:27):
that was really positive.
Cyndi Sweeney (15:28):
And so you don't have the box anymore?
Emma Stanley (15:31):
No. I I passed it on. As it had been passed on to
me, when I left, I made sure atthe front desk that it was sent
to another person who is in herfirst few days. And I'm not
brave enough to barge into otherpeople's hotel rooms. And, you
know, there's there's a littlebit of regret there, I guess.
I kinda wish that I had, but Ileft a note and and and made
(15:54):
sure it was passed on. And Ihope that it's still being
passed around that that verystrange hotel.
Cyndi Sweeney (16:00):
I wonder maybe one day somebody will listen and
say, I had that box too. Andreach out to you.
Emma Stanley (16:06):
I hope so.
Cyndi Sweeney (16:06):
It would be beautiful.
Emma Stanley (16:08):
Transition is not something that is an event. It
is something that is ongoing.Sometimes I get frustrated with
the language around transitionbecause we are all transitioning
all of the time. We move fromone phase of our lives to the
next. And in some ways,transition is no different than
(16:29):
that.
You're just discovering a newpart of yourself and expressing
it the way people do with anynumber of partners or,
subcultures. In each of thosetransitions, in every one of
those transitions, findingcommunity and that support is
important to that process.Acceptance of transition is
(16:51):
huge. And part of why we'regoing to talk to Felix today is
about this idea of community andand being able to access it and
how a lot of people are tryingto block access to that exact
feeling.
Cyndi Sweeney (17:07):
Time to take a break from this TransCanada
Stories for a TD ConnectedCommunities moment.
Emma Stanley (17:13):
TransCanada Stories are your stories, and
we're all about connectingcommunities right across Canada.
We would love to hear from you.What topics would you like us to
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Follow the link in the shownotes and share with us how can
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That was a TD ConnectedCommunity moment because
community matters.
Cyndi Sweeney (17:35):
Okay. Well, we are welcoming Felix Vandergrift
to the show. Felix is aresearcher and works in
governmental relations. He is anactive advocate for TGNB, that's
transgender and non binaryrights, access to gender
affirming health care,supporting to us LGBTQIA plus
youth, harm reduction, and humanrights. Felix is from Nova
(17:59):
Scotia.
And while he has traveled forwork extensively, moved back
here with his spouse in 2017.Felix recently underwent top
surgery in Dartmouth, thanks tothe plastics team at the QE2,
and is continuing to push formore access to better gender
affirming care for TGNV,transgender and non binary folks
in the province. Welcome to theshow, Felix.
Felix Vandergrift (18:21):
Hi, I'm happy to be here. I'm excited to join
you today.
Cyndi Sweeney (18:24):
Well, we're super excited to have you too. And I
don't think you've actually hada chance to meet Emma in person,
even though Emma is veryfamiliar with you from our
Thriveworks program.
Emma Stanley (18:36):
Emma. So nice to meet you and glad So to have you
on the I saw from your bio thatyou're an active advocate. Can
you tell me a little bit moreabout that?
Felix Vandergrift (18:46):
Yeah, I think unfortunately we're still a
little bit in a time periodwhere most trans people I know
are on some level advocatingeither for themselves or for
their community. I have done alot of work even starting as
young as like 17 doing protestsand going to school in Montreal
(19:07):
was really an eye opener forthat because Montreal students
are on another level withprotests and learned a lot
there. But then as I've gottenolder, a lot of my advocacy work
has shifted to more behind thescenes stuff and being less
on-site, although I do try tostill be on-site and present,
(19:31):
but into a lot of policydevelopment. And I've learned a
lot through work that I've donewith indigenous communities on
advocating and doingconsultations with provincial
and federal governments. Andthat has helped a lot in terms
of like letter writing andproposal and grant writing and
things like that.
So that's what I spend a lot ofmy time doing. And once you
(19:53):
learn the language, because itis a different language when
you're dealing with stuff likethat, it's really easy to get
people's attention.
Cyndi Sweeney (19:59):
Have you had a lot of success? I know recently
you just reached out withregards to trying to connect
community around certainpolicies that are being proposed
out in Saskatchewan and rollingback gender affirming rights for
your students in New Brunswick.Tell us a little bit about where
you're at there.
Felix Vandergrift (20:15):
So I started writing a letter to our
education minister and itaccidentally, for better or for
worse, turned into a bit of apeer reviewed literature review.
And so part of my educationalbackground is looking at peer
reviewed journal articles fornot only advocacy, but bias.
(20:39):
Like, are they actually likepeer reviewed or is there some
like basically critical analysisand then taking those things and
turning it into language that iseasily transferable to other
folks. So I did a bit of a deepdive into the protection of
transgender, non binary andgender diverse students. And
(21:00):
ended up with like an eight ornine page review on the topic
and sent it to the educationminister.
And I actually was scheduled infor a meeting with the education
minister's people here, whichwas awesome. And we had a really
good initial first discussion onsort of and it's going to be
(21:21):
ongoing, obviously. So themeeting was good, but then the
other side of things that isreally awesome is just in
personal networks, a lot ofpeople have reached out for
copies of said letter and havebeen copy and pasting some of
that research into their ownletters to then go to the
minister and the premier, bothin New Brunswick and Nova
(21:45):
Scotia. So that's been reallynice and good to see both
parents and other 2SLGBTQIAadvocates.
Cyndi Sweeney (21:54):
That's wonderful that you're really helping to
bridge community. And perhaps ifyou'd like to share a copy of
the letter, we can put it in theshow notes for others who are
maybe wanting to get involvedand be proactive, but not
knowing how to do that. Theycould perhaps use that letter as
a starting point.
Felix Vandergrift (22:09):
Absolutely. I mean, you get unfortunately
working or fortunately orunfortunately, however you want
to look at it, you get a littlebit of an education when you
start working in consultation.And some people don't even know
where to send the letters to. Soin that letter, have CC'd all of
the people that I feel aredirectly sort of tied into that.
And it's all MLAs or ministersresponsible for youth or
(22:35):
ministers responsible for theHuman Rights Act, specifically
the education minister becausethat is her wheelhouse.
But it never hurts to kind ofspread it far and wide. I find
that people, especiallyministers tend to react more to
letters that are written and notjust a copy standard paste
thing. So I advocate for peopleto take pieces of it, but then
(22:57):
put their own anecdotes. Be itlike you have a kid in your life
who is trans that you want toprotect, or you're a teacher, or
you've been involved in theschools and somehow, or you are
an LGBTQ person who wants toadvocate for this and just put
your own anecdotes in it. Andyou'll see in the letter that
I'll happily share, put my ownpersonal anecdotes about growing
(23:18):
up here and going through thepublic school system and how it
didn't make me less trans orless gay, it just took longer to
get there.
Cyndi Sweeney (23:27):
Right. Yeah. It was like not A to B, it was more
A to C to B to
Emma Stanley (23:32):
D and then to F, maybe back
Cyndi Sweeney (23:34):
to Yeah. You had said in the bio that we were
just reading out that you arejust recovering from top
surgery. And we've been talkingabout affirming care and a
little bit about transitioningon the show so far. And you had
mentioned about the importanceof just having visibility for
(23:55):
others that are coming upunderneath to be able to look
out and see other people thatare positively living their
lives and that maybe havetransitioned or haven't
transitioned but sharingexperiences. So first of all, do
you want to tell us how is therecovery going?
How are you doing?
Felix Vandergrift (24:10):
Well, recovery has been really well.
My surgeons are very happy andI'm very happy. There was a
first couple of weeks that werea little worth it, but
definitely painful. But I'm nowat the point where it's kind of,
I think I'm almost to that threemonth mark. And you could still
(24:30):
see me, like, I know it's avisual thing, but on the video
I'm holding my chest becausethat's like a natural, like I
did that so often.
I caught myself the other dayrunning down the stairs and just
like holding my chest. Yeah. Butit's just starting to sort of
like sink in that like this isthe body now that I get to wear
(24:51):
every day. That's kind of reallyincredible. And my brain is
finally, you know, I get to lookin the mirror and see kind of
who I have always thought wasthere.
And that's kind of really wild,you know, when I first started
transitioning, you know, thosefilter, the face filters, right?
With the beard and stuff likethat. I had so, if you go back
(25:13):
through my camera roll, there'sdozens of photos of me using
those filters and it's kind ofreally, really intense and
overwhelming in a very positiveway these days to sort of see
that person kind of coming outthroughout the transition.
Emma Stanley (25:35):
So I was doing a workshop recently, and I got
asked kind of an interestingquestion. And I'm I'm curious
what your response to it wouldbe. The question was this. When
you introduce yourself as atrans woman with the adjective,
what are you hoping to get outof that? What are you trying to
achieve?
(25:55):
And, like, it said it was suchan unexpected question because
it was a pretty focusedworkshop. But to rephrase it,
what are you hoping to achieveby being so open about both
being trans and the process oftransition?
Felix Vandergrift (26:14):
I think that, I mean, first of all, that's a
really interesting question. AndI always, I love when people
sort of frame that as like,well, I'm just a cis woman or
I'm just a man and I just exist,right? So why do you have to
make it about being trans,right? Yeah. That's common and
of course, there's a lotattached to that.
(26:38):
But what like to try and expressto people is there seems to be a
bit of a myth that trans peopleare new, trans trenders, it's
new fad, know, it's a new thing.And you know, we know especially
like working in indigenouscommunities that A) that's not
(26:58):
true. Transgender nonconformingdifferent ideas of gender and
sex have existed for as long ashumans have. The Mi'kmaq are
earliest recorded, know,instances of Mi'kmaq in in in
what is Mi'kmaqi now known asNova Scotia is thirteen thousand
(27:18):
years. So if if they've beenaround that long, well, we don't
have sort of like paper
Emma Stanley (27:23):
here. Yeah.
Felix Vandergrift (27:24):
You know? But I suspect that, you know, these
these are these are millennialmillennia old ideas. Yeah. And,
you know, you can find those incultures all across the world.
And then specifically, if youlook at our more recent history,
so my spouse is historian andspecifically focused on the
(27:47):
first and second world wars.
There was an entire institutededicated to understanding trans
health and mental health andmedical transitioning. And it
was specifically targeted, burntdown and destroyed by Nazis.
History doesn't repeat itself,but it does rhyme. And it's
really important when you lookat the steps that are being
(28:09):
taken right now against sort ofLGBTQ communities and
specifically trans and gendernon binary communities. Like
this is a targeted attack and itis meant specifically to
suppress and oppress thosegroups who are proposing
opposition to fascist, whitenationalism, racism, domestic
(28:33):
terror, like that whole icebergof individuals.
So when I talk about visibilityand stuff and why I introduce
myself as trans or why I'mtrying to live very visibly,
it's because I know, first ofall, and most importantly, our
elders, there's a reason they'renot in abundance. There's a
reason that we don't have anabundance of elders to look to.
(28:59):
They were either killed, theyunfortunately succumbed to
suicide, homelessness, drugaddiction, a whole plethora of
things. Those reasons are deeplyrooted in the fact that they
were either not able to bethemselves, they were jailed for
being trans, they were murdered.There's so many historical
(29:22):
reasons why we don't haveelders.
And the elders we do have arevery few and far between. And
some of them still to this daydon't feel safe living out loud.
And so I look at that as it ismy job to become an elder, a
trans elder. It is my job tolive to a ripe old age. Yeah.
(29:46):
And pass along those stories. Solike, if all I do is exist out
of spite so that I can pass onlearned history, that's, you
know, but then also looking toour future, right? Like, I grew
up in Nova Scotia and I had zeroaccess to trans literature. I
had zero access to what it meantto be a queer person. I had
(30:07):
nobody I knew in my life.
My babysitter had her brotherwho lived in Montreal. That was
the only gay person I knew andhe wasn't around very often. So
I'm like proof in the puddingthat just because you don't have
access to those things is notgoing to stop you from being
those things, but it is stoppingyou from finding community. And
I look at our youth who aretrying to come through in this
(30:28):
sort of moral panic aroundtransness. And there is no other
word for it.
It is a moral panic becauseliterally all trans people want
to do is just exist. And thereis kids that are coming up right
now who cannot see themselvesgraduating high school. And that
(30:49):
absolutely just brought my soul.
Cyndi Sweeney (30:52):
Especially when we have the human rights in
place, especially when we have,you know, Bill C-sixteen. And
you know, it's like for me, Ithink it just such a
contradiction when my child cameand told me that they're trans
and I did not know what thatmeant. Yet I had gone to post
(31:13):
secondary school. I have twodegrees. Try to be the best
parent that I can be.
And I wasn't able to supportthem for the first ten years of
their life. And that enrages me.And also it just really upsets
me that if I had known a littlebit more and had the right
information, I could haveprobably helped them sooner
(31:34):
instead. And so if you're gonnalive to be a ripe old age out of
spite, I am so grateful for yourspitefulness. It brings
Emma Stanley (31:43):
me to another related question and that's, do
you feel optimistic that intwenty years time, in forty
years time, we will have elders,we will have the sort of support
structures that certainly youand I were missing?
Felix Vandergrift (32:04):
I hope so. But I
Emma Stanley (32:07):
Is there an are there enough of us who are going
to take on that challenge of ofliving openly out of spite?
Felix Vandergrift (32:14):
Yeah. I mean, I hope so. And and I will do it
for as long as I can, even if itimpacts my safety, I will do it
for as long as I can, for asmuch as I can, as loud as I can.
But to bring it back to thepoint of like, if you look back,
(32:34):
one of the reasons I say eldersare important, my grandmother,
unfortunately she's alreadypassed, but we had a really
interesting discussion on justeven women's rights when they
started in the country. And shewas one of the first people that
she knew in her friend group whogot a credit card with her name
on it because she was workingand it was her money.
(32:56):
And when it first came, it said,Mrs. And then my grandfather's
name and then the last name. Andshe called and was like, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no. And like, ifyou think about that right now,
if you as a woman, regardless ofwhether you're married or not,
you don't think twice aboutgoing and applying for a credit
card because it's your money,right? So I'm kind of hoping as
(33:20):
not only as adults, as we areliving out loud and we're
impacting and rippling out intoour circles and we are changing
mindsets of people and friendsand family members and things
like that, that as kids start tocome up in through the ranks,
we're also then spreading thatlike, you know, that joy because
(33:40):
trans joy is resistance andtrans existence is resistance.
We've always been here, we'regoing to keep being here, but
how we exist here is what we getto decide. And I for one am, I
will not stop hoping that I canmake it at least a little easier
(34:01):
reach one parent or I'm going toreach one teacher that is going
to be gentler and more acceptingkids that are coming through so
that that kid can then go on andbecome the next elder. That's
the whole goal.
Cyndi Sweeney (34:16):
Firmly believe that because Stats Canada has
only just started to evenacknowledge transgender people
and the number that exists is solow. But we're seeing statistics
now like fifty six percent ofGen Zers know someone who uses
theythem pronouns. Exactly. Andat that, I said to these parents
(34:36):
that are very worried for theirown children that you know what?
The numbers are so much biggerthan people even know.
And that these numbers are onlygoing to keep growing as we have
these conversations and as wehave positive visibility. And so
it becomes a lot more difficultto bully a population of people
(34:58):
when it's a large group ofpeople standing together. And so
I kind of think, watch outbecause I feel like there's
enough people that are standingup now that are really rallying
in this time. See it EgalCanada, I see PFLAG Canada. I
see smaller groups from acrossCanada that are just saying, no
way, no, this is not happening.
(35:19):
And we all deserve theseequitable rights to exist in the
world. So I'm hopeful. I amhopeful.
Felix Vandergrift (35:25):
In my letter that I put to the minister and
you can see it there, it's areally interesting anecdote that
I equivalent transness andexisting openly as a trans
person with left handedness. Inthe early 1900s, being left
handed in schools often got youostracized. It would get you
beat by teachers. It would belike, it's a big deal, right?
(35:48):
Now, lot of that is rooted inChristian ideals.
That's not to say that allChristians are bad. I'm not
saying any of that. But a lot ofthat is tied to the fact that
left handedness was related toSatan being satanic or being
evil, right? So kids would hidebeing left handed and force
themselves to try and learn withtheir right hand, regardless of
(36:08):
whether or not they were. Andthen in the 1950s, 60s, around
that time, it became a normalthing.
And we saw the amount of lefthanded people just skyrocket.
And everyone was like, oh mygod, where are these left handed
people coming from? Right? Like,they were hitting them. They've
(36:30):
always been there.
An interesting thing happened isaround the seventies, eighties,
it plateaued and it just sort ofstopped, like it exploded, but
then it plateaued. And that'sbecause regardless of whether
people are being beaten orostracized or whatever, they're
still there. They just are notable to exist safely. I suspect
(36:56):
and I am able comfortablyconservatively saying about one
to two percent of the populationis trans. And when we look at
these school platforms and theseanti LGBTQ platforms, I think I
mentioned this to you the otherday, Cynthia.
One, two, maybe three kids in anentire school are going to be
(37:19):
trans, non binary, gender nonconforming. That might grow. I
can't see it being like 500 kidsin one school. And so, you know,
I really want lawmakers,policymakers, researchers,
parents, everyone to startthinking about it. It's like, so
you're going to go about all ofthis for what, three kids in a
school, four kids in a school.
(37:42):
You're going to really do all ofthat. Maybe in a few years, we
might see more peopleidentifying as trans, non
binary, sure. But it willplateau once it stops becoming
this very exhausting,potentially dangerous situation
to be trans.
Emma Stanley (37:58):
One of the common critiques activism for trans
people gets is that it is such asmall proportion of the
population and everyone's beingasked to do all this effort for
a very small number of people.Now given the argument you just
made about you're going to spendall this effort attacking this
small number of people, what'syour response to the idea that
(38:20):
maybe this isn't an efficientway to spend our dollars and our
time?
Felix Vandergrift (38:26):
Yeah. I get that question a lot. It's like,
oh, what? So we're gonna writein policy to protect one or two
kids? Like, you know?
So that I would say usingpronouns and names are free.
Those things are free. That'sharm reduction. And we have
proven that's how, westatistical evidence to prove
that that's harm reduction.Education ministers, anybody
(38:47):
that's doing policy development,that's free.
That is an easy, easy win. Thatis totally 100% free. And you
are then keeping those kids fromsuicidal ideation. You're
keeping those kids from druguse, abuse, victimization. Why
would you not implementsomething that is free, first of
(39:07):
all?
And secondly, there seems to bean idea that we don't need to
look after the very small groupsof people. And that's not a
trans experience exclusively.That is also disabled folks.
That is also that's also blackcommunities. That's also
indigenous communities becausethey represent a small portion.
(39:27):
And I would say in that regard,if you add up all of those
people, we might all havedifferent backgrounds,
ethnicities, gender ID, orsorry, gender expressions, that
sort of thing. But thesolidarity in that group usually
means it's a much bigger groupthan just one or two people. And
(39:48):
if we start having conversationswith people around those one or
two trans people and how it'svery easy to just change a
little thing in your language,right? Or use a pronoun
differently. That ripples outinto care for other folks.
So that ripples out into, well,why are we building a new
(40:11):
building without any wheelchairramps? Why are we building an
airport on Mi'kmaq territorythat has no art featured by or
history featured about land thatthese people are, you know? So
like there's those conversationssnowball.
Emma Stanley (40:30):
It's something that we teach in the workshops
here at work where inclusion isa mindset. And regardless of
your entry point into thatmindset, once you get there,
it's going to affect everysingle person in your life.
Felix Vandergrift (40:44):
In a positive way. Yeah, absolutely. You're
lucky if you do not have towrite letters or you are not
impacted by a policy, right? Andhow wonderful would that be to
wake up every day and not beaffected by climate change, not
be affected by inflation, not beafflicted by chronic illness and
(41:07):
not have a disability, not haveLike we're all just trying to
exist. Yeah.
Cyndi Sweeney (41:13):
We're just trying to exist.
Felix Vandergrift (41:14):
Right now, we're all trying to afford
Cyndi Sweeney (41:15):
groceries. Wow.
Felix Vandergrift (41:18):
What do say?
Cyndi Sweeney (41:19):
Groceries? What are groceries? If
Felix Vandergrift (41:23):
you can call Dwayne Johnson the rock or you
can pronounce, you know, AnnaKournikova or like, if you're
okay doing that and you're notokay using a trans person's
pronouns, I have a lot ofquestions
Cyndi Sweeney (41:36):
for you. And that's all it is though. Right?
Felix, you've made so manyawesome points here. I think
that hopefully listeners have somany great pieces to take away
and to think about.
And I just hope that we can allkind of go forward. My biggest
goal is I just want to leave theworld a slightly better place
than when I was there. I alwayslike there's a book I used to
(41:57):
read to my kids called The LupinLady. And she would spread seeds
of lupins and didn't reallythink about what she was doing.
But she was making the world amore beautiful place because
after she was gone, all of theseflowers came up and they would
grow and spread.
And so we're just about out oftime here, but I wanted to give
you an opportunity if there'sanything else you wanted to
share.
Felix Vandergrift (42:15):
It's really important, I think right now,
given the political climate fortrans people to know, it's not
so much misery loves company,but dysphoria, transphobia, all
of those things tend to shrinkwhen we're around other trans
non binary folks and supporterswho understand, who have been
(42:35):
through similar things andcommunity is so critically
important. Don't let it bediminished if it's online, if
it's through text, if it's onInstagram, that does not
diminish that relationship atall. I think it's really, really
important for cis people intheir lives right now, check-in
on your trans friends, we're notokay. We are going through it.
(43:01):
But also, yeah, just it costsnothing to be kind, and it's
it's a very easy thing to justbe a little gentler and a little
kinder.
Emma Stanley (43:12):
Alright. Well, Felix, thank you so much for
coming on to the show. It's beenwonderful to talk, and, we'll
have you on again soon.
Felix Vandergrift (43:20):
Yeah. Absolutely. Anytime. This is
Athena has my cell phone number,so I'm I'm never
Cyndi Sweeney (43:24):
Oh, yeah.
Emma Stanley (43:27):
Fantastic.
Cyndi Sweeney (43:28):
Thanks, Felix. Have a great afternoon.
Felix Vandergrift (43:31):
Thanks.
Cyndi Sweeney (43:34):
It's the end of the road for this episode of
TransCanada Stories.
Emma Stanley (43:38):
If you'd like more information on our other
programming, check outsimplygoodform.com. We hope
you'll subscribe to our podcastand that we'll see you again
next time.
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