Network Marketing and Multilevel Marketing opportunities have made their way through the Christian wife circles for years. Estie and April share their experiences with you in this episode and ask some questions about these style companies. They discuss the negatives of seeing individuals as mere opportunities for profit and the importance of personal accountability. As Christians, our interactions, be they online or face-to-face, must reflect our deeply held values. This conversation serves as a mirror, asking us to look closely at the reflection of our personal branding and to assess whether it truly aligns with who we are and who we aspire to be in Christ.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to Simply Edifies podcast.
Our goal is to encourage womenas we navigate the messiness of
life through biblical studies,personal stories and practical
tips that bolster our walk withJesus daily.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Thank you for joining us in our episode today a
receiver of a DM from somebodythat maybe we knew like 10, 15
years ago, saying hey, how areyou the dreaded hey girl message
(00:35):
.
You want to buy my product thatI'm selling.
I don't know, maybe I'm justthe lucky one who has had that
happen quite a few times, but ifyou have also experienced this,
we're going to talk a littlebit about these companies, and
(00:57):
there's many of them, so we'renot going to go through and like
single out a certain company oranything like that.
We're just going to talk invery general terms.
Again, this is the series.
We've been talking about justkind of modern day things in
Christianity that Essie and Ihave talked about before, and
just kind of like the nuances ofthem from a Christian
(01:17):
perspective that maybe noteverybody thinks about off the
top of their head.
And like we both have been apart of some of these companies,
we both have bought things fromcompanies that are like this,
the MLM companies.
First off, what we want to sayis that obviously we know that
(01:39):
people's livelihood and a wayit's a great way for some moms
to like make some extra money onthe side or whatever like these
businesses can be a greatfinancial help, and I know
several people who have reallyprofited in a financial way from
being part of these businesses,right, so we're not saying that
(02:03):
they are evil.
We're not saying that they'relike wrong to be a part of.
We're just, in this episode,going to take a little bit of
time not a very long time andjust ask some questions about
them.
Really, and maybe we don't evenhave all the answers, we're
just going to ask some questionsthink it's.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
We have to look at everything through our christian
perspective, and this issomething that affects a lot of
christians because it is very,you know, it's just something
that's very common inside ofchurches is to have a lot of
different businesses or onlinebusinesses or mlms represented,
and there are some good thingsabout them and there are some
(02:48):
iffy things, and then there aresome downright not edifying
things about them as well.
So, I think, covering all ofthem and if you are part of one
or, um, something like that,please don't tune us out,
because we really aren't likehere to demonize it.
We just want to talk about andI have been very deeply
entrenched in them before, andso I am just kind of going to
(03:08):
share some of my perspective onit and some of the good, some of
the bad, um, but I have plentyof positives, like from my
experience, and then I havenegatives too, and I think the
negatives are things that areworth talking about.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, and some of these things that we're going to
talk about could also beapplied just to like Instagram
and marketing as a whole.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Like yeah, the whole like Insta business model where
you have to be your own product.
Basically, I think that thisdeath, this conversation,
definitely would fit thatcategory as well.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yeah, for sure, because you know there's an
element of sales that, as aChristian, as a believer, you
have to just be guarded in howyou're presenting your product
right, and this is what we'llget into first off.
Right, so each of thesecompanies has a product and they
, of course, have competition inthat field, so they want to
(04:11):
present their product as thebest product.
Of course, um, one thing to beleery of is a company who says
this is the best and this hasall of the answers.
And if you don't have, likethis is completely life-changing
for every, like these bold,dramatic statements right, that
(04:36):
are just obviously they're thereto get your attention, they're
there for the marketing purposeand and all these things, but
you can't really say that myproduct is going to fix every
problem.
You know what I mean.
Like you can't.
There's nothing in this worldthat can fix everything.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
The bolder, the claim , and the more outrageous the
claim, I think, the more cautionneeds to be taken.
And because we, as Christians,we have to operate with honesty
and integrity.
And your product might beamazing, but someone might just
it doesn't work for them.
And you have, if you are sobelieving of that, that like it
(05:15):
is truth, that it is the bestand it will, it is life-changing
and it will work.
When someone is like, oh, thisisn't working, or I'm just not
sure, or I haven't seen theresults, or whatever the
tendency is to like, fight backright.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
So maybe you didn't use it long enough, or maybe you
need a different this, or maybeyou need like to try to
convince the person that itwasn't necessarily the product,
but maybe it was the person andyou end up walking into some
just great areas, I believe, oflike integrity when you are
again walking into such boldflames of a life-changing this.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Now there are, there are businesses and we're like
we're not going to pick outnames where I have definitely
seen people have really greatresults, um, with their products
, and so, like I personally useproducts from a couple of
different companies.
So, again, like not demonizingit, but just be cautious, like
if you especially consideringjoining one, if they're making
(06:14):
very, very bold claims, justknow that it's going to be your
responsibility to back thoseclaims up and you don't want to
be stuck in a position offeeling like you have to
compromise your honesty or yourintegrity in the sake of a
business along with that, Ithink, is also the idea of some
(06:37):
of these companies.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Really, they thrive because of a element of fear in
their selling.
You know there's so many toxins, there's so many, you know this
, or there's so many that, andand you know your health is is
basically you're going to die ifyou don't like do this cleanse
(07:00):
or you don't do this.
You know, have this cleaningproduct or that cleaning product
.
Like it's a very fear centricmodel for for selling.
Obviously we've talked aboutthis many times as a believer,
if that's your model for sellingis to be focused on the
(07:20):
negative and fear driven part ofit.
Now, obviously, yes, is it truethat there are toxins in the
world and we can do better andall of that, absolutely, 100%
sure, we're not saying that.
There's not truth to that.
We're saying that if that'syour motive, or if that's your
(07:40):
motive for buying the product oryour motive for selling the
product, is that fear like again, it goes back to the integrity
part of it.
Is that how christ sells?
I mean, I know this is a veryawkward way to say it.
It's probably not.
Hopefully it's not likesacrilegious, but christ did not
sell salvation for himself outof fear.
(08:05):
Did he talk about fear andjudgment?
Absolutely.
Was it true?
Is there truth to it?
Absolutely 100.
But when we, when that's thethe main focus, even even when
we are sharing the gospel, ifit's just fear you, I would
question if that persongenuinely came to christ.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
I I once wrote for simply edify.
I don't remember.
I don't remember exactly whatthe topic was, but I remember
using the um picture of ifsomeone had to to really like
lie to sell you or like scareyou to to buy from them, would
(08:50):
you really believe in theintegrity of their product?
Because if they're having tolike push and push and push and
push to get you to purchasesomething, wouldn't you feel
like like a good product speaksfor itself and and that's why
like yeah, when people I believe, like I said, there are plenty
of products that are cleaner andbetter and you know, when you
start removing chemicals fromyour life, like dangerous
(09:13):
chemicals from your life, youcan see positive impacts and so,
like the testimony of peoplewho have had changes is is
effective and there's nothingwrong with that.
But I have said this is kind ofa funny story.
So I used to work for a, acompany that sold healthy,
healthy living stuff and, um, Ireally liked the products.
(09:36):
I have nothing against any ofthe products.
They were great.
Um, but one of the things that Iwould do at my presentations
was I would bring up the storyof Mike Rose's Dirty Jobs, where
he works at a plant where theytake animal carcasses and just
all sorts of absolutelydisgusting things and kind of
(10:00):
render down the fat and thenthat fat is what they use to
make a lot of cosmetics.
And it's just like the mostdisgusting one of his most it
was for the show Dirty Jobs andit was just one of the most
disgusting episodes.
And so I would like you know,tell that story at all my and it
was very effective because Imean it's, it really is
disgusting.
But that was like you know,there was just that like I was
(10:21):
instilling kind of like fear inpeople.
Like you put that on your lips.
It could have been like somepig that died on the farm and
they just like chucked in thewagon and you know, and I mean
it's fun, it's funny now, like Idon't.
I don't really look at that aslike a bad thing, but it was
just that whole mindset of likeI'm, I'm kind of I was kind of
scaring people into buying myproduct.
(10:43):
I still do think about itsometimes when I put on like
makeup and stuff like, oh what,what animal is this If I'm not
using the good stuff?
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yeah, yeah, I mean this.
Obviously, there's alldifferent types of sales tactics
, but just something that we'vetalked about before is the idea
of are you manipulating in fearto make your product?
You have to be so grossed inthe sales and in the marketing
(11:16):
aspect of it that it's so easyto forget that who you are
dealing with as individuals arepeople.
They're not just numbers, andthis goes for Instagram, this
(11:39):
goes for like, if you're aninfluencer or whatever, like,
your followers are people.
The people who you areinfluencing are people and they
have a soul.
And when you're looking at themas numbers or sales or followers
or whatever and this is apersonal thing that you have to
(12:04):
take accountability for how am Iviewing these people?
How am I viewing my friends onFacebook?
Are they as potential salestargets or are they still
friends?
Are they still acquaintances?
Are they still people?
And that is one of the biggestthings for myself personally
(12:25):
when it comes to these stylemarketing things, is that
immediately, like I could nothave talked to somebody for 10
years and, just like we said atthe beginning, we get like a
message in our DMs or somethinghey, you want to buy my product,
you know, and it doesn't.
(12:46):
I mean, it doesn't always startout that way, like maybe
there's some chit chat to beginwith, but essentially that's
what it is.
You are a potentialmoney-making avenue for me, yeah
.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
And you are like you are at the beginning.
If you start with any company,they're going to have you go
down through all your list ofacquaintances, all your list of
you know, people that couldpotentially buy from you, and
kind of make list and then juststart, you know, reaching out to
these people and that's a salestactic.
That has been a sales tacticforever.
(13:17):
I, I remember I used to sellfurniture and I read a book, um,
that my boss had.
It was about.
It was written by like a carsalesman and some of his tactics
and stuff and it was older,probably I don't remember how
old, but it was, you know, fromthe 1900s and, um, it was this.
(13:42):
I mean, the sales sales havenot changed over the years, they
just haven't.
It's always been, you know, thesame, the same kind of
aggressive go, you know, and youhave to just constantly be
contacting people.
And, to be honest, this isprobably my biggest beef with
mlms is, and why I walked awayfrom it is because, not because
(14:04):
of the products, not because thepeople I worked with, nothing
like that.
It was because I met someonenew one day and it just crushed
my heart when I realized I didnot care about that person as a
person.
I saw them as a salesopportunity.
I started having a conversationwith someone I had to slide in
(14:28):
my business so that they could,you know, I could start that
conversation and then I couldget their contact information
and then I could whatever andsome people don't, don't fall in
that trap, like I don't thinkthat every person that sells has
that mindset.
I really don't, but I know.
For me personally, it had takenover how I helped my life and
(14:49):
how and I am a very relationalperson I meet people, I make
connections quickly, I can growfriendship.
Like I I just saw somethingthat was a very big part of my
life just kind of like turned onits end and it wasn't for the
better, and I wasn't trying tolike witness to them or share
(15:10):
the gospel or invite them tochurch or find out about their
spiritual needs.
I was how can I go in for theworld?
Yes, and it was very upsetting,honestly, and I realized that
there were friendships that Ihad messed up, because where I
(15:31):
could have taken an opportunityto build the friendship, I was
just focused on building mybusiness.
Again, I know there are so manypeople that have built massive
businesses and still been ableto balance their relationships
well, but I did not, and I thinkthat that's a big, big danger
that you can and honestly, wewere talking about this a little
(15:53):
bit beforehand this isn't justabout like businesses.
This could also be like thewhole idea that you have to have
this image, whether maybe youdo a business through Instagram
or you have some kind of socialmedia presence, and you have to
maintain an image that's notnecessarily authentic, because
(16:18):
you are the product and you wantpeople to think of you in a
certain way.
Or maybe I remember part of mycompany was makeup and I felt
like I couldn't go out in publicwithout like, looking a certain
way because I was representingthe company.
Yeah, and I'm like, butultimately I'm representing
(16:43):
Christ, like that's where myfocus needs to be and it had
just shifted so drastically.
And yeah, and I just if.
If what you're doing it doesn'tmatter if it's a business, it
doesn't matter if it's your rolein your church, like it does
not matter if what you are doingis causing you to be fake or
(17:05):
unauthentic, or you recognizethat your priorities are
flip-flop because of how yourimage is or what your goals are
and those goals aren't lining upwith what God's goals are.
You've got to take a step back,and that doesn't necessarily
mean change everything or quitor whatever.
It could just mean re-evaluateand change your sales tactics,
(17:32):
reevaluate and change your, yourtalk, your sales tactics or
whatever.
But having all of this at ourfingertips is something you
don't escape from it.
It used to be like you knowyou'd see the Mary Kay ladies.
Oh, we're supposed to.
You know, that's a very commonthing.
I can bring up Mary Kay becausewe all talk about Mary Kay.
Those ladies have been around awhile and we all know what I
say.
I'm going to say the Mary Kayladies.
And you know they.
You would see them and they'dbe all dressed up for their
presentations or whatever, butit would be a specific time.
(17:53):
They would have theirpresentations and they'd be all
dressed up and dolled up andlike super cool, but then they
went about their lives at othertimes.
But now everything is.
It's just like a constantonline social media, like you
are always on a stage, alwayswhen that's just not what god
has called us to, does not?
Speaker 2 (18:12):
it should not be our top and most in first priority
it is difficult because thereare people like we said, that
this, the income has helped thema lot and it has been like a
blessing, and you know all ofthose things.
And once again, we're not hereto belief in the product.
Like that there is nothingwrong.
(18:55):
Like you can't say that there'spossibly anything wrong, you
can't question it.
That should be a warning sign.
Um, you know the just whenthere's so much of the
charismatic, like leadership andthings that draw you in and
people like, again, some of thisis personality and some of this
(19:18):
is like just marketing ingeneral.
Like take the style companyaway, it's just marketing in
general.
But when the following is sostrong because of the leadership
being so charismatic and sowhatever, you know what I mean
Like is it really the product oris it the marketing tactics?
(19:39):
Like what is actually there,you know, so just question it,
ask God to show you if you'repart of one, if you know this is
obviously what God has for you.
Like it's not, you don't haveto be.
You know like, oh, my goodness,I'm doing something horribly
wrong, but at the same time, itis something to consider.
(20:02):
You should it just like any job.
If, if a boss came up to me andand asked me to do something,
thing that I felt was morallyquestionable.
I would take a minute and Iwould just say, hey, is this
really what is going on, or isit something different?
Like, do I have like all of thepieces?
(20:23):
Like you just have to do that.
It's called it being reasonable.
It's like using common senseand using the bible and the
scriptures and asking thequestions to to figure it out.
You know, and and just remember, like the big part of it is
just remembering that people,even outside of the marketing
(20:43):
people, need jesus more thananything.
They.
They need Jesus more than yourproduct.
And if you, one of the one ofthe real core issues that I kind
of have to is that when youjoin one of these things, like
you have to become an expert, soto speak, on the product.
(21:06):
Like you have to learn all ofthe terminology for selling it.
You have to learn, um, you knowwhat's in the product.
You have to learn about the,the sales strategy and all of
that.
If you're going to do well,you're going to spend time
learning this stuff, but howmuch time and energy do we spend
on our ability to share thegospel with other people.
(21:29):
And yes, I realize that I'mkind of relating sharing the
gospel with selling somethingand that's not necessarily a
great thing, like arepresentation that's equal.
But at the same time, there'sso many women who I've met who,
oh, I just don't know that Iwould be able to share the
(21:50):
gospel with somebody.
Well, you could share a productwith me right.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
One thing that I remember hearing a lot, and it
is true.
They said you know you alreadyrepresent something, so, like,
if you buy a shampoo that youlove, you probably have told
somebody about it and so why not, you know, make money off of
that.
And that was true.
That is true, um, butultimately, are we quick to talk
(22:16):
about jesus and the change thathe's made in our life?
And this doesn't have to bethis, doesn't have to have
anything to do with whether youshould sell something or not.
This is just our Christianityin general.
Are we quick to share thechange that God has made us as
quickly as we are to tellsomeone about a good sale that
we got, or a good deal we got onthe dress we're wearing, or you
(22:39):
know what kind of makeup wehave, or the supplement that
work is working for us.
I'm really bad about that.
Like, if I start working usinga supplement that works, I'm
like everyone should try it.
Everybody come find out aboutthis and so, um, that enthusiasm
, and it is it.
They work up your enthusiasm.
They really do, and it's so you.
(23:00):
So you go out there and youmake sales, and there's nothing
wrong with that, like the reasonthat I originally joined a
network marketing is what it wascalled business um was because
I was like I you know it was astay at home mom and I wanted to
have some income and I was likeyou know, I was reading through
(23:20):
Proverbs and I'm like theProverbs 31 woman.
She did it all.
She, she was industrious andshe took care of her family.
And there's nothing wrong withme doing this and I can maybe
help out a little bit and getsome products that I really love
for cheaper and you know allthe things and I did that stuff
and it was good and I explainedthe reason I left.
(23:41):
But but I even like when youhave those models where you are
bringing in people underneath ofyou and training them and
everything, I remember workingwith a girl that I'm friends
with who's younger and also likea sister in the faith, and
looking back like I could havespent so much of that energy and
time that I spent on her tryingto kind of mold her into this
(24:03):
like business model, partnerkind of thing, was really wasted
time where I could have beenworking while helping her with
like both of us with ourspiritual walk and like
discipleship, and I wouldn't saythat it like I didn't go into
it with bad intentions andnothing terrible came out of it.
But I can just kind of lookback with with more clarity and
(24:25):
just see missed opportunities tobuild real relationships
because I was worried aboutselling a product and so if you
need to sell that product, justbe just be honest about that, be
like listen, this is, this isabout sales, like I'm not just,
because sometimes you have tokind of go in and the guys of
friendship that's why we get thehey girl, hey girly, what have
(24:47):
you been up to?
Let me tell you what have youbeen up to.
Let me tell you what I havebeen up to.
Like you, you start under thislike guys of I care about us,
like we're friends right, likelet's or let's be better friends
, and then you slide in with the, the sales pitch or the team
join my team or whatever it is,and there's just a danger and
(25:08):
all I'm saying is to just becautious and just make sure
which just we say this so oftenjust make sure your priorities
are right and that you'relooking at these people as
either lost and needing Christmore than anything, or a sister
in Christ or brother in Christwho you can be building
relationship, true relationshipswith.
And, as a word of caution andthis has not happened to me, but
(25:30):
I've seen it happen before Ifyou feel like you cannot step
away from a company withoutrepercussions of some kind
emotionally as far as, like youwill be cut off from friendships
that you've made orrelationships that you've built,
that is problematic.
(25:52):
And you, there are people thathave have really lost all of
their friends, all of theirmoney, um, and their and their,
their integrity, to be perfectlyhonest because they have gone
so all in in a company that justwas using them and so just
spend a lot of time researchingand spend time asking questions,
(26:15):
and if you are not allowed toask questions, that's a huge red
flag.
And, on a practical note, workfor a company where you don't
have to carry inventory, becauseyou will invest a lot of money
and sometimes these companies gounder and you are stuck with
stuff and it is very dangerousand people have been ruined like
(26:35):
that.
So that's just my practicalword of caution and I'm not,
again, not trying to scareanyone.
I'm saying do your research,pray about it.
God might be like, hey, this isthe answer to your financial
problem.
I believe that has happenedmany times for many people, but
sometimes people just go into iteyes wide open.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
All that to say is that, when it comes to these
types of businesses and evenInstagram, like we were saying
in the marketing there aspect ofit, seeing people as souls is
primary and it doesn't matter ifthis is, even if you're not in
one of those companies, even ifyou're at work.
You know your co-worker, whothat you've been with for 20
(27:41):
years working in the same job.
Maybe tomorrow you go to workand you see them as a soul where
you haven't seen them that waybefore, your boss, whatever, it
doesn't matter.
Like it's so easy to just losethat sight of eternal value
(28:02):
because this is our physical joband, yes, in in some workplaces
you know, obviously you're notgoing to be able to open up the
Bible during your work, that youknow you're being paid to work
and we understand that, but it'sit's more about who you are as
an individual representing.
Just like what Estee hadalready said.
(28:23):
We've covered that.
Like we are representingsomebody and we talk about the
things that we like, and we talkabout the things that we like
and we talk about the thingsthat have made an impact on our
health and on our well-being.
If jesus christ has made animpact in your life, that should
be the first thing that you'resharing.
So I know this is kind of anunusual topic but again, these
(28:48):
are just conversations thatEstee and I have had.
We've talked about this manytimes because, like we said,
we've both been in them.
We've both been, we've boughtproducts from them.
We've been, you know,supportive of friends who have
been in them and in sellingtheir stuff, like we, we know
the companies, um, and we don'thave a vendetta against them or
(29:14):
anything like that.
We don't think that they'rewrong.
It's just some, some thingsthat we've noticed.
All that to say hope you have ablessed day.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
We will move on to some kind of um lighter, more
fun topic one of these days.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
We are honored that you chose Simply Edified to be a
part of your day.
If this episode was a blessingto you, would you consider
subscribing to our podcast aswell as writing a review or
giving us a rating?
This would be such a help toour ministry.
We would love for other peopleto find us, and this is one of
the ways that they can Thank you.
Hello and welcome to Simply Edifies podcast.
Our goal is to encourage womenas we navigate the messiness of
life through biblical studies,personal stories and practical
tips that bolster our walk withJesus daily.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Thank you for joining us in our episode today a
receiver of a DM from somebodythat maybe we knew like 10, 15
years ago, saying hey, how areyou the dreaded hey girl message
(00:35):
.
You want to buy my product thatI'm selling.
I don't know, maybe I'm justthe lucky one who has had that
happen quite a few times, but ifyou have also experienced this,
we're going to talk a littlebit about these companies, and
(00:57):
there's many of them, so we'renot going to go through and like
single out a certain company oranything like that.
We're just going to talk invery general terms.
Again, this is the series.
We've been talking about justkind of modern day things in
Christianity that Essie and Ihave talked about before, and
just kind of like the nuances ofthem from a Christian
(01:17):
perspective that maybe noteverybody thinks about off the
top of their head.
And like we both have been apart of some of these companies,
we both have bought things fromcompanies that are like this,
the MLM companies.
First off, what we want to sayis that obviously we know that
(01:39):
people's livelihood and a wayit's a great way for some moms
to like make some extra money onthe side or whatever like these
businesses can be a greatfinancial help, and I know
several people who have reallyprofited in a financial way from
being part of these businesses,right, so we're not saying that
(02:03):
they are evil.
We're not saying that they'relike wrong to be a part of.
We're just, in this episode,going to take a little bit of
time not a very long time andjust ask some questions about
them.
Really, and maybe we don't evenhave all the answers, we're
just going to ask some questionsthink it's.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
We have to look at everything through our christian
perspective, and this issomething that affects a lot of
christians because it is very,you know, it's just something
that's very common inside ofchurches is to have a lot of
different businesses or onlinebusinesses or mlms represented,
and there are some good thingsabout them and there are some
(02:48):
iffy things, and then there aresome downright not edifying
things about them as well.
So, I think, covering all ofthem and if you are part of one
or, um, something like that,please don't tune us out,
because we really aren't likehere to demonize it.
We just want to talk about andI have been very deeply
entrenched in them before, andso I am just kind of going to
(03:08):
share some of my perspective onit and some of the good, some of
the bad, um, but I have plentyof positives, like from my
experience, and then I havenegatives too, and I think the
negatives are things that areworth talking about.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, and some of these things that we're going to
talk about could also beapplied just to like Instagram
and marketing as a whole.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Like yeah, the whole like Insta business model where
you have to be your own product.
Basically, I think that thisdeath, this conversation,
definitely would fit thatcategory as well.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yeah, for sure, because you know there's an
element of sales that, as aChristian, as a believer, you
have to just be guarded in howyou're presenting your product
right, and this is what we'llget into first off.
Right, so each of thesecompanies has a product and they
, of course, have competition inthat field, so they want to
(04:11):
present their product as thebest product.
Of course, um, one thing to beleery of is a company who says
this is the best and this hasall of the answers.
And if you don't have, likethis is completely life-changing
for every, like these bold,dramatic statements right, that
(04:36):
are just obviously they're thereto get your attention, they're
there for the marketing purposeand and all these things, but
you can't really say that myproduct is going to fix every
problem.
You know what I mean.
Like you can't.
There's nothing in this worldthat can fix everything.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
The bolder, the claim , and the more outrageous the
claim, I think, the more cautionneeds to be taken.
And because we, as Christians,we have to operate with honesty
and integrity.
And your product might beamazing, but someone might just
it doesn't work for them.
And you have, if you are sobelieving of that, that like it
(05:15):
is truth, that it is the bestand it will, it is life-changing
and it will work.
When someone is like, oh, thisisn't working, or I'm just not
sure, or I haven't seen theresults, or whatever the
tendency is to like, fight backright.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
So maybe you didn't use it long enough, or maybe you
need a different this, or maybeyou need like to try to
convince the person that itwasn't necessarily the product,
but maybe it was the person andyou end up walking into some
just great areas, I believe, oflike integrity when you are
again walking into such boldflames of a life-changing this.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Now there are, there are businesses and we're like
we're not going to pick outnames where I have definitely
seen people have really greatresults, um, with their products
, and so, like I personally useproducts from a couple of
different companies.
So, again, like not demonizingit, but just be cautious, like
if you especially consideringjoining one, if they're making
(06:14):
very, very bold claims, justknow that it's going to be your
responsibility to back thoseclaims up and you don't want to
be stuck in a position offeeling like you have to
compromise your honesty or yourintegrity in the sake of a
business along with that, Ithink, is also the idea of some
(06:37):
of these companies.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Really, they thrive because of a element of fear in
their selling.
You know there's so many toxins, there's so many, you know this
, or there's so many that, andand you know your health is is
basically you're going to die ifyou don't like do this cleanse
(07:00):
or you don't do this.
You know, have this cleaningproduct or that cleaning product
.
Like it's a very fear centricmodel for for selling.
Obviously we've talked aboutthis many times as a believer,
if that's your model for sellingis to be focused on the
(07:20):
negative and fear driven part ofit.
Now, obviously, yes, is it truethat there are toxins in the
world and we can do better andall of that, absolutely, 100%
sure, we're not saying that.
There's not truth to that.
We're saying that if that'syour motive, or if that's your
(07:40):
motive for buying the product oryour motive for selling the
product, is that fear like again, it goes back to the integrity
part of it.
Is that how christ sells?
I mean, I know this is a veryawkward way to say it.
It's probably not.
Hopefully it's not likesacrilegious, but christ did not
sell salvation for himself outof fear.
(08:05):
Did he talk about fear andjudgment?
Absolutely.
Was it true?
Is there truth to it?
Absolutely 100.
But when we, when that's thethe main focus, even even when
we are sharing the gospel, ifit's just fear you, I would
question if that persongenuinely came to christ.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
I I once wrote for simply edify.
I don't remember.
I don't remember exactly whatthe topic was, but I remember
using the um picture of ifsomeone had to to really like
lie to sell you or like scareyou to to buy from them, would
(08:50):
you really believe in theintegrity of their product?
Because if they're having tolike push and push and push and
push to get you to purchasesomething, wouldn't you feel
like like a good product speaksfor itself and and that's why
like yeah, when people I believe, like I said, there are plenty
of products that are cleaner andbetter and you know, when you
start removing chemicals fromyour life, like dangerous
(09:13):
chemicals from your life, youcan see positive impacts and so,
like the testimony of peoplewho have had changes is is
effective and there's nothingwrong with that.
But I have said this is kind ofa funny story.
So I used to work for a, acompany that sold healthy,
healthy living stuff and, um, Ireally liked the products.
(09:36):
I have nothing against any ofthe products.
They were great.
Um, but one of the things that Iwould do at my presentations
was I would bring up the storyof Mike Rose's Dirty Jobs, where
he works at a plant where theytake animal carcasses and just
all sorts of absolutelydisgusting things and kind of
(10:00):
render down the fat and thenthat fat is what they use to
make a lot of cosmetics.
And it's just like the mostdisgusting one of his most it
was for the show Dirty Jobs andit was just one of the most
disgusting episodes.
And so I would like you know,tell that story at all my and it
was very effective because Imean it's, it really is
disgusting.
But that was like you know,there was just that like I was
(10:21):
instilling kind of like fear inpeople.
Like you put that on your lips.
It could have been like somepig that died on the farm and
they just like chucked in thewagon and you know, and I mean
it's fun, it's funny now, like Idon't.
I don't really look at that aslike a bad thing, but it was
just that whole mindset of likeI'm, I'm kind of I was kind of
scaring people into buying myproduct.
(10:43):
I still do think about itsometimes when I put on like
makeup and stuff like, oh what,what animal is this If I'm not
using the good stuff?
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yeah, yeah, I mean this.
Obviously, there's alldifferent types of sales tactics
, but just something that we'vetalked about before is the idea
of are you manipulating in fearto make your product?
You have to be so grossed inthe sales and in the marketing
(11:16):
aspect of it that it's so easyto forget that who you are
dealing with as individuals arepeople.
They're not just numbers, andthis goes for Instagram, this
(11:39):
goes for like, if you're aninfluencer or whatever, like,
your followers are people.
The people who you areinfluencing are people and they
have a soul.
And when you're looking at themas numbers or sales or followers
or whatever and this is apersonal thing that you have to
(12:04):
take accountability for how am Iviewing these people?
How am I viewing my friends onFacebook?
Are they as potential salestargets or are they still
friends?
Are they still acquaintances?
Are they still people?
And that is one of the biggestthings for myself personally
(12:25):
when it comes to these stylemarketing things, is that
immediately, like I could nothave talked to somebody for 10
years and, just like we said atthe beginning, we get like a
message in our DMs or somethinghey, you want to buy my product,
you know, and it doesn't.
(12:46):
I mean, it doesn't always startout that way, like maybe
there's some chit chat to beginwith, but essentially that's
what it is.
You are a potentialmoney-making avenue for me, yeah
.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
And you are like you are at the beginning.
If you start with any company,they're going to have you go
down through all your list ofacquaintances, all your list of
you know, people that couldpotentially buy from you, and
kind of make list and then juststart, you know, reaching out to
these people and that's a salestactic.
That has been a sales tacticforever.
(13:17):
I, I remember I used to sellfurniture and I read a book, um,
that my boss had.
It was about.
It was written by like a carsalesman and some of his tactics
and stuff and it was older,probably I don't remember how
old, but it was, you know, fromthe 1900s and, um, it was this.
(13:42):
I mean, the sales sales havenot changed over the years, they
just haven't.
It's always been, you know, thesame, the same kind of
aggressive go, you know, and youhave to just constantly be
contacting people.
And, to be honest, this isprobably my biggest beef with
mlms is, and why I walked awayfrom it is because, not because
(14:04):
of the products, not because thepeople I worked with, nothing
like that.
It was because I met someonenew one day and it just crushed
my heart when I realized I didnot care about that person as a
person.
I saw them as a salesopportunity.
I started having a conversationwith someone I had to slide in
(14:28):
my business so that they could,you know, I could start that
conversation and then I couldget their contact information
and then I could whatever andsome people don't, don't fall in
that trap, like I don't thinkthat every person that sells has
that mindset.
I really don't, but I know.
For me personally, it had takenover how I helped my life and
(14:49):
how and I am a very relationalperson I meet people, I make
connections quickly, I can growfriendship.
Like I I just saw somethingthat was a very big part of my
life just kind of like turned onits end and it wasn't for the
better, and I wasn't trying tolike witness to them or share
(15:10):
the gospel or invite them tochurch or find out about their
spiritual needs.
I was how can I go in for theworld?
Yes, and it was very upsetting,honestly, and I realized that
there were friendships that Ihad messed up, because where I
(15:31):
could have taken an opportunityto build the friendship, I was
just focused on building mybusiness.
Again, I know there are so manypeople that have built massive
businesses and still been ableto balance their relationships
well, but I did not, and I thinkthat that's a big, big danger
that you can and honestly, wewere talking about this a little
(15:53):
bit beforehand this isn't justabout like businesses.
This could also be like thewhole idea that you have to have
this image, whether maybe youdo a business through Instagram
or you have some kind of socialmedia presence, and you have to
maintain an image that's notnecessarily authentic, because
(16:18):
you are the product and you wantpeople to think of you in a
certain way.
Or maybe I remember part of mycompany was makeup and I felt
like I couldn't go out in publicwithout like, looking a certain
way because I was representingthe company.
Yeah, and I'm like, butultimately I'm representing
(16:43):
Christ, like that's where myfocus needs to be and it had
just shifted so drastically.
And yeah, and I just if.
If what you're doing it doesn'tmatter if it's a business, it
doesn't matter if it's your rolein your church, like it does
not matter if what you are doingis causing you to be fake or
(17:05):
unauthentic, or you recognizethat your priorities are
flip-flop because of how yourimage is or what your goals are
and those goals aren't lining upwith what God's goals are.
You've got to take a step back,and that doesn't necessarily
mean change everything or quitor whatever.
It could just mean re-evaluateand change your sales tactics,
(17:32):
reevaluate and change your, yourtalk, your sales tactics or
whatever.
But having all of this at ourfingertips is something you
don't escape from it.
It used to be like you knowyou'd see the Mary Kay ladies.
Oh, we're supposed to.
You know, that's a very commonthing.
I can bring up Mary Kay becausewe all talk about Mary Kay.
Those ladies have been around awhile and we all know what I
say.
I'm going to say the Mary Kayladies.
And you know they.
You would see them and they'dbe all dressed up for their
presentations or whatever, butit would be a specific time.
(17:53):
They would have theirpresentations and they'd be all
dressed up and dolled up andlike super cool, but then they
went about their lives at othertimes.
But now everything is.
It's just like a constantonline social media, like you
are always on a stage, alwayswhen that's just not what god
has called us to, does not?
Speaker 2 (18:12):
it should not be our top and most in first priority
it is difficult because thereare people like we said, that
this, the income has helped thema lot and it has been like a
blessing, and you know all ofthose things.
And once again, we're not hereto belief in the product.
Like that there is nothingwrong.
(18:55):
Like you can't say that there'spossibly anything wrong, you
can't question it.
That should be a warning sign.
Um, you know the just whenthere's so much of the
charismatic, like leadership andthings that draw you in and
people like, again, some of thisis personality and some of this
(19:18):
is like just marketing ingeneral.
Like take the style companyaway, it's just marketing in
general.
But when the following is sostrong because of the leadership
being so charismatic and sowhatever, you know what I mean
Like is it really the product oris it the marketing tactics?
(19:39):
Like what is actually there,you know, so just question it,
ask God to show you if you'repart of one, if you know this is
obviously what God has for you.
Like it's not, you don't haveto be.
You know like, oh, my goodness,I'm doing something horribly
wrong, but at the same time, itis something to consider.
(20:02):
You should it just like any job.
If, if a boss came up to me andand asked me to do something,
thing that I felt was morallyquestionable.
I would take a minute and Iwould just say, hey, is this
really what is going on, or isit something different?
Like, do I have like all of thepieces?
(20:23):
Like you just have to do that.
It's called it being reasonable.
It's like using common senseand using the bible and the
scriptures and asking thequestions to to figure it out.
You know, and and just remember, like the big part of it is
just remembering that people,even outside of the marketing
(20:43):
people, need jesus more thananything.
They.
They need Jesus more than yourproduct.
And if you, one of the one ofthe real core issues that I kind
of have to is that when youjoin one of these things, like
you have to become an expert, soto speak, on the product.
(21:06):
Like you have to learn all ofthe terminology for selling it.
You have to learn, um, you knowwhat's in the product.
You have to learn about the,the sales strategy and all of
that.
If you're going to do well,you're going to spend time
learning this stuff, but howmuch time and energy do we spend
on our ability to share thegospel with other people.
(21:29):
And yes, I realize that I'mkind of relating sharing the
gospel with selling somethingand that's not necessarily a
great thing, like arepresentation that's equal.
But at the same time, there'sso many women who I've met who,
oh, I just don't know that Iwould be able to share the
(21:50):
gospel with somebody.
Well, you could share a productwith me right.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
One thing that I remember hearing a lot, and it
is true.
They said you know you alreadyrepresent something, so, like,
if you buy a shampoo that youlove, you probably have told
somebody about it and so why not, you know, make money off of
that.
And that was true.
That is true, um, butultimately, are we quick to talk
(22:16):
about jesus and the change thathe's made in our life?
And this doesn't have to bethis, doesn't have to have
anything to do with whether youshould sell something or not.
This is just our Christianityin general.
Are we quick to share thechange that God has made us as
quickly as we are to tellsomeone about a good sale that
we got, or a good deal we got onthe dress we're wearing, or you
(22:39):
know what kind of makeup wehave, or the supplement that
work is working for us.
I'm really bad about that.
Like, if I start working usinga supplement that works, I'm
like everyone should try it.
Everybody come find out aboutthis and so, um, that enthusiasm
, and it is it.
They work up your enthusiasm.
They really do, and it's so you.
(23:00):
So you go out there and youmake sales, and there's nothing
wrong with that, like the reasonthat I originally joined a
network marketing is what it wascalled business um was because
I was like I you know it was astay at home mom and I wanted to
have some income and I was likeyou know, I was reading through
(23:20):
Proverbs and I'm like theProverbs 31 woman.
She did it all.
She, she was industrious andshe took care of her family.
And there's nothing wrong withme doing this and I can maybe
help out a little bit and getsome products that I really love
for cheaper and you know allthe things and I did that stuff
and it was good and I explainedthe reason I left.
(23:41):
But but I even like when youhave those models where you are
bringing in people underneath ofyou and training them and
everything, I remember workingwith a girl that I'm friends
with who's younger and also likea sister in the faith, and
looking back like I could havespent so much of that energy and
time that I spent on her tryingto kind of mold her into this
(24:03):
like business model, partnerkind of thing, was really wasted
time where I could have beenworking while helping her with
like both of us with ourspiritual walk and like
discipleship, and I wouldn't saythat it like I didn't go into
it with bad intentions andnothing terrible came out of it.
But I can just kind of lookback with with more clarity and
(24:25):
just see missed opportunities tobuild real relationships
because I was worried aboutselling a product and so if you
need to sell that product, justbe just be honest about that, be
like listen, this is, this isabout sales, like I'm not just,
because sometimes you have tokind of go in and the guys of
friendship that's why we get thehey girl, hey girly, what have
(24:47):
you been up to?
Let me tell you what have youbeen up to.
Let me tell you what I havebeen up to.
Like you, you start under thislike guys of I care about us,
like we're friends right, likelet's or let's be better friends
, and then you slide in with the, the sales pitch or the team
join my team or whatever it is,and there's just a danger and
(25:08):
all I'm saying is to just becautious and just make sure
which just we say this so oftenjust make sure your priorities
are right and that you'relooking at these people as
either lost and needing Christmore than anything, or a sister
in Christ or brother in Christwho you can be building
relationship, true relationshipswith.
And, as a word of caution andthis has not happened to me, but
(25:30):
I've seen it happen before Ifyou feel like you cannot step
away from a company withoutrepercussions of some kind
emotionally as far as, like youwill be cut off from friendships
that you've made orrelationships that you've built,
that is problematic.
(25:52):
And you, there are people thathave have really lost all of
their friends, all of theirmoney, um, and their and their,
their integrity, to be perfectlyhonest because they have gone
so all in in a company that justwas using them and so just
spend a lot of time researchingand spend time asking questions,
(26:15):
and if you are not allowed toask questions, that's a huge red
flag.
And, on a practical note, workfor a company where you don't
have to carry inventory, becauseyou will invest a lot of money
and sometimes these companies gounder and you are stuck with
stuff and it is very dangerousand people have been ruined like
(26:35):
that.
So that's just my practicalword of caution and I'm not,
again, not trying to scareanyone.
I'm saying do your research,pray about it.
God might be like, hey, this isthe answer to your financial
problem.
I believe that has happenedmany times for many people, but
sometimes people just go into iteyes wide open.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
All that to say is that, when it comes to these
types of businesses and evenInstagram, like we were saying
in the marketing there aspect ofit, seeing people as souls is
primary and it doesn't matter ifthis is, even if you're not in
one of those companies, even ifyou're at work.
You know your co-worker, whothat you've been with for 20
(27:41):
years working in the same job.
Maybe tomorrow you go to workand you see them as a soul where
you haven't seen them that waybefore, your boss, whatever, it
doesn't matter.
Like it's so easy to just losethat sight of eternal value
(28:02):
because this is our physical joband, yes, in in some workplaces
you know, obviously you're notgoing to be able to open up the
Bible during your work, that youknow you're being paid to work
and we understand that, but it'sit's more about who you are as
an individual representing.
Just like what Estee hadalready said.
(28:23):
We've covered that.
Like we are representingsomebody and we talk about the
things that we like, and we talkabout the things that we like
and we talk about the thingsthat have made an impact on our
health and on our well-being.
If jesus christ has made animpact in your life, that should
be the first thing that you'resharing.
So I know this is kind of anunusual topic but again, these
(28:48):
are just conversations thatEstee and I have had.
We've talked about this manytimes because, like we said,
we've both been in them.
We've both been, we've boughtproducts from them.
We've been, you know,supportive of friends who have
been in them and in sellingtheir stuff, like we, we know
the companies, um, and we don'thave a vendetta against them or
(29:14):
anything like that.
We don't think that they'rewrong.
It's just some, some thingsthat we've noticed.
All that to say hope you have ablessed day.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
We will move on to some kind of um lighter, more
fun topic one of these days.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
We are honored that you chose Simply Edified to be a
part of your day.
If this episode was a blessingto you, would you consider
subscribing to our podcast aswell as writing a review or
giving us a rating?
This would be such a help toour ministry.
We would love for other peopleto find us, and this is one of
the ways that they can Thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!