December 6, 2023 • 30 mins
Janina Abiles is an independent talent & organizational development consultant with over 17 years of experience. She talks about accepting people for who they are and using feedback as a tool to help people unlock their potential instead of using it to try and mold them into who we want them to be.
Check out the free Q&A videos that we have produced with tips to help you receive feedback graciously and act on it visibly at www.learningbridge.com/tips.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Accept people for who they are first and
foremost. And this is hardbecause we have preconceived
notions about what we thinksomeone should be or how we
think someone should be. Youknow , how a manager should be,
how someone should behave as apart of a team, all of those
kinds of things. But I thinkthat if we start there, then
(00:24):
the feedback that we give tosomeone is going to be more
valuable because we're notusing feedback as an excuse to
try to mold someone into theway we think they should be.
We're using feedback as a wayto actually help them improve
and unlock their real potentialversus trying to make them
something that we think theyshould be.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Hello, welcome to Simply Feedback, the podcast
hosted by Learning Bridge . Iam your host, Troy Blazer. Glad
to have you along for ourepisode today. I'm very excited
about our guest today. Just tointroduce her, Janina Aise is a
seasoned learning anddevelopment professional with
more than 17 years ofexperience. She has led
(01:11):
projects spanning the fullcycle of talent development
from orientation for new hiresto leadership courses for
senior leaders. Janina has ledteams of learning and
organizational developmentprofessionals and overseeing
the creation of programs. Rightfrom inception, she has played
a role in the orchestration ofcompany-wide engagement
(01:31):
surveys, performanceevaluations, talent reviews ,
and 360 degree leader feedback.
Janina has worked acrossmultiple industries, most
recently as director ofleadership development for a
regional bank, and she'scurrently working independently
and is available for learningprojects. Janina, welcome to
Simply Feedback. It's so goodto have you with us today.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Thank you, Troy. I am excited to be here, and I
have to tell you, this is myvery first podcast experience,
.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Awesome. Maybe , um, just to help us get to know you
a little bit, I wonder if youcould tell us about a time that
somebody gave you feedback,whether professionally or
personally , um, but maybe ithad an impact on your life.
Could you share a story withus?
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Yeah, absolutely. So you mentioned in my intro that
I've worked in the learning anddevelopment field for a pretty
long time. So when you work inthat space, you get a lot of
feedback,. Um, butspecifically there was a time
when I was a participant in a360 process, so there was an
entire team of HR professionalsand all of us were kind of
(02:37):
going through it at the sametime. Mm-Hmm . .
And at the time, my managerfollowed up with me, you know,
afterwards and sort of was thatkind of coach or support
through the process. And, youknow, largely the feedback that
came through to me and, andthrough the process really just
gave me a boost of confidencethat I don't think I had at the
time that really led me to beable to be more authentic as a
(03:00):
leader, which was, I think,really important learning to be
authentic, be a little bit morevulnerable as a leader. Mm-Hmm
. , whichultimately I think helped me to
grow my career just by being astronger leader.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Oh, that's fantastic. It's, it's
interesting sometimes how , um,when you were part of that 360
process, you're, you're sort ofgenuinely soliciting feedback
from people, and so you canfeel like the feedback that you
receive is honest, it'sthoughtful, it's not just
something that was tossed offlightly. And so really almost
(03:34):
regardless of what you hear,you can take that feedback more
seriously into the way that youwork, if that makes sense. Um,
as opposed to just, you know,your manager sort of gives you
a, a , a compliment off thecuff and you're like, well,
maybe they weren't reallypaying very much attention to
the way I presented that justnow, even though they gave me a
compliment about it. You candisregard that and, and sort of
keep feeling the way that youfeel, but if it's part of a, a
(03:56):
larger, more earnest process,then it can mean different
things to you because it wasgiven maybe more sincerely.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yeah. I think, you know, it's interesting that you
say that because I, I thinkthat if you go into your 360
process with that belief,right, the mindset that people
are giving me this feedbackbecause they care, because it's
important and I'm willing andkind of open to it as a sort of
learner participant , um, thenyes. But , I think the
(04:27):
caveat is there are lots ofpeople that will through
experiences like that and arenot walking into it with an
open mind Mm-Hmm., um, and therefore the
feedback doesn't land well andisn't received well and isn't,
you know, something that has asignificant impact on your life
because really they're not opento receiving it, so they're
kind of shutting it off.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah. Yeah. It can be a scary thing for sure.
Right? Yeah. Um, to, to openyourself up to that kind of
feedback. So Janina, as you'veworked with individuals maybe
who don't come in with thatkind of open mindset, are there
ways or things that you can doto help them open, be a little
bit more open to the feedbackthat they're about to receive
in a 360 process?
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Oh, that's a, I feel like there's a loaded question
Yes and no. So I say yesbecause I do believe you can
help people change theirmindset. I mean, just the heart
of, obviously if I work in alearning and development field,
I must believe that, right? Um,yeah . But at the end of the
day, people always make thatdecision for themselves. So you
can give them information, youcan give them maybe a different
(05:32):
way to frame their mindsetgoing into the process, and not
to be a sales pitch for the ,the , the feedback jiu-jitsu,
but that all the content that'scontained in, in that, you
know, class or course is thetype of feedback that you need
to give somebody or the typeof, not feedback, but the type
(05:52):
of information you need to givesomebody to help them maybe
reframe their mindset. The endof the day though, it's up to
them to take that, absorb itand actually make that change
in their own head. Um, but Ithink that sometimes people
have just never been exposed tothat kind of information or
that way of thinking, becauseif, you know, people are raised
(06:13):
or worked in an environmentwhere everybody's always on the
defensive, you know, that kindof thing, then it's really hard
for them because they havenever seen it another way.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Yeah. And, and you kind of bring up a good point,
and that is, it can depend onthe culture that, that you're
working in, that everybody'sworking in in terms of Yep .
What is normal for us? Do weshare feedback with one
another? Or is it justeverybody's kind of heads down,
do your work and don't worryabout what other people are
doing, right?
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yep . Yeah .
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Um, if we assume for a minute that people are open
to feedback as, as you'veworked with different
organizations over the years,what are some things that
you've done to help employeesget that feedback? What, what
are some things that haveworked well or maybe some
challenges that you've seenthat have not gone as well?
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yeah, so I think specifically when you think
about the 360 process Mm-Hmm.
, I mean, I'veseen it work well, I've seen it
not work well. And going backto what I said earlier, I think
at the end of the day, a lot ofit comes down to the
individual. So outside of anyorganizational strategy on how
you communicate, how you rollit out, even if you do
everything right, there arestill going to be individual
(07:20):
people that do not wanna be apart of the process and don't
want the feedback from others.
Okay . So they will on thesurface, go, oh, yeah, I'm
really open. I love feedback,blah , blah , blah . Right?
They'll say all the thingsthey're supposed to say, but
then when it comes time to readthe report, listen to the
report, have a conversation,and then take action on it, the
door close , they're notactually interested in making
(07:41):
the change. Um, you can't do alot about that person other
than doing all the rightthings, right. Having the right
communication strategy. Sure .
Making sure that you've engagedthem in the process, letting
them know why it matters, tyingit to their growth versus their
performance, or , you know, allthe things that you can do,
even if you've done them right.
(08:02):
There are still gonna be thosefolks. Um, but I think that
taking an approach where youuse something like a 360
process as an intentional partof programs for emerging
leaders, manager developmentthings and kind of processes
where the people who are inthat process are already
engaged. They already wantfeedback, they want to grow ,
(08:25):
they're interested, they'reopen, they're eager. It makes
it so much better because itnever feels forced. It feels
like they were a part of it andthey were engaged from the very
beginning. And that just makesthe coaching process better. It
makes it more productive, itmakes it more successful. So I
think if anybody's going toimplement something like this
(08:45):
and they don't already have it,starting with groups like that,
it's essentially voluntary, youknow? Yeah. Uh , versus every
single person is gonna gothrough this, which then feels
like, well , I don't know if Ineed it. Do I need it? Is this
, you know, it , it can justmake it much more approachable
for people because they wantedto be a part of it.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yeah. I really like that. You know, you can't
really give someone adviceunless they're asking for it,
and it's the same withfeedback, right ? Right. And so
if they're part of that programwhere maybe they've indicated,
Hey, I want to be part of this.
Okay, great, welcome to theprogram, A 360 is, is part of
the program. And then they'remore than happy to do that.
They're looking forward to it,and they're excited about it.
(09:25):
Right . On the flip side, ifit's just, well, the company
president said every manager inthe company is gonna do a 360,
then I guess I have to do it.
And, you know, they get resultsand they find reasons to
justify that feedback orrationalize it, or, you know,
so and so just doesn'tunderstand my perspective when
they gave that feedback. And soRight. They can be much more
(09:46):
closed off to it. Yeah ,
Speaker 1 (09:48):
For sure. Yeah. Seen all of that
Speaker 2 (09:50):
. Yeah.
, I like that ideathough, of, of having it be
something that's tied to abroader initiative, a broader,
you know, a program , um, sothat it's not just , uh, an
isolated event to do this 360.
Um, yeah . Any other ways thatyou tried to provide employees
with feedback over the yearsbesides a 360?
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Sure . I mean, sure.
I think as a , an individualleader, I mean, I have, you
know, for most of my career haddirect reports, you know,
myself. Okay . So people who,who I'm responsible for, you
know, on a regular basis,providing feedback, having
one-on-ones doing midyearreviews, annual performance
reviews, all, all of that. Um,so for me, I mean, I think me
(10:35):
personally, I think my kind ofstyle and preferences kind of,
you know, grew over the years.
One of the things that I found, um, is grouping feedback. So
kind of looking for themes andidentifying the stuff that
matters most.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
And the reason I say that is because I have worked
in environments where peoplewill give you feedback, let's
say on one of your directreports and say, let , let's
just pretend that somebody'sgiving me feedback about you,
Troy. Okay? Okay . Sure. Well ,you know , Troy said this one
thing, and then he did this onething, and then there was this
one time, and they want tolike, download every little
(11:17):
detail to you. And as a leader,I found that, okay, I have to,
I have to, I'm like a funnel, Ihave to absorb all of it Yeah.
And take it in, but not spit itall back out at the end,
because that is not productiveand people can only absorb so
much. Especially because thenature of feedback in a lot of
organizations is constructive.
(11:38):
Mm-Hmm . . It'snot, oh, this is all the great
stuff I wanna tell you aboutTroy. Yeah. Here's all the tiny
little things. I didn't likethe way he worded that. I
didn't like this slide, Ididn't like the way he handled
that one situation. And peoplewill download sometimes that
information to you as a leader.
Yeah. And I have over the yearsfound that I really have to
(11:59):
take it all in, maybe come upwith the most common themes, if
you will. Mm-Hmm., and then identify, do those
things even matter do .
Just because it matters to thatone person that downloaded it
to you doesn't mean that itactually matters to the
customer, the organization, theindividual person to their
(12:19):
overall performance. It couldbe that this person ha it could
be telling you more about thatperson, if you will. Like, yes,
that person, it just is reallypassive aggressive . That
person is nitpicky that perwhatever the, you know, it
sometimes it's telling you moreabout the feedback giver than
the person that they thinkneeds to receive it. .
So I would, I , I would adviseleaders to take it all in, but
(12:42):
don't spit it all back out.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yeah. And I think part of your role as a leader
in that instance is to be alistener. Right. And you may be
doing more good for the persondownloading the feedback just
to listen, and they go awaythinking, oh, that's a load off
. And things may or may notchange with the person who they
were giving feedback on, butthey feel like they've been
able to sort of unload thatburden that they weren't
(13:06):
carrying. Right. And so , yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Yeah , that's a great point. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
But, and , and then I think you really do a service
for your, the , the people thatyou're supervising , um, to, to
sort of be, not a barriernecessarily, but a filter for
that feedback to say, okay, letme synthesize a few things
together here, and I'll sharewhat is appropriate or, or what
is maybe most useful. But likeyou said, none of us can
(13:31):
respond to all the things atonce. Right . We can only focus
on a few select things.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Right. Yeah .
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Well, I know that you recently transitioned, we
talked about you worked at aregional bank as director of
leadership development , movingfrom that to running your own
consulting company. Tell us alittle bit about that
experience. Are there, arethere things that you've
learned in that transition sofar?
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Oh, gosh, so many things. I mean, it's only been
a couple weeks, so to say I'mrunning a consult and I'm
saying that in air quotes forpeople that can't see the video
Yeah. , um, to say, I'mrunning a consulting company.
It's, it's me. I'm asolopreneur.. Okay. So,
you know, I think I , I , I didby no means think that it would
be easy. Um, I think there'sprobably two big things I've
learned, one, which I think Ialready knew, but it , it's
(14:19):
become much more clear, is thatyou own your own career. You
are the driver, and you will,no one will ever care about
your career more than you do.
Mm-Hmm. , youknow, no one, no one's gonna
care about your career. Noone's gonna care about your
business more than you do. Andso you have to take it into
your own hands and do what youwant with it. Um, and then I
(14:40):
think the second thing is justthat I think in my mind, I
always knew that starting abusiness like a brick and
mortar business, you knowMm-Hmm . kind of
old days, right . Like a storeor a restaurant or something is
a lot of work. What I'verealized in doing this, where
you're starting a business thatthere's no brick and mortar.
(15:01):
Yeah. It's a service I'mproviding, but that it requires
a great deal of discipline andorganization. There's so many
things from you , you know, youset up your LLC, your website,
your licenses, yeah . Yoursocial media, a bank account,
and then when you start makingmoney, you have to figure out
bookkeeping and taxes. And soit's a lot of organizing
(15:23):
. And luckily, I likeorganizing. That's actually one
of the things I'm pretty goodat. Oh , that's good . Enjoy
doing. But it really is a lotof , um, there's a lot of
minutiae to manage.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
And, and sometimes, I don't know if you feel this
way, sometimes you're probablysaying to yourself, I don't
wanna be doing all this. I wantto do the thing that I love.
Right. I want to be right inthere with and with a client
helping 'em figure out theirproblems. And instead, I've got
to do all of these fourdifferent tasks before I can
even get to the point where Ican start finding those
(15:55):
clients. There's definitelypros and cons to, to that being
that solopreneur. Right. Iwonder, you know, in your
different interactions over theyears, as you've coached
leaders and, and helped leadersdevelop , um, can you think of
a specific time or anexperience when you've seen
feedback cause a point ofinflection in someone's career
that you were working with?
(16:16):
Whether for good or for bad? Idon't know.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Yeah. You know, I don't know if this is , uh, an
inflection point, and this ispre a little bit more personal,
but , um, as a , someone thathad a career in learning and
development Yeah . In thebeginning, the early days , uh,
as a trainer, right. Your jobis to mostly deliver
information that someone elsehas designed, written, created.
(16:41):
Okay. And so, as a, in theearly days, I feel like my role
was, you know, accuracy. Sodeliver the information in a
way that's accurate, but alsomake it feel authentic and
engage your learners. And mindyou, this is the early days
before we did a lot of any kindof online, there's no podcast,
any of that. So I was justlike, classroom training, you
(17:01):
know, Uhhuh , .
Um , but I remember, like, Ihave these very vivid memories
of lots and lots and lots ofpracticing, which isn't
something a lot of people getto do in their job . So it's,
on the one hand, it's , um,it's really a great privilege
to get a chance to practice,but it's also constant
feedback. So deliver, you know,this kind of section of the
(17:24):
script, and then you get peerfeedback, feedback from your
boss, someone's gonna interruptyou, and then they're gonna
give you feedback on yourstyle, your word choices, your
flow, your tone. Yeah. Uh , andit, I, I remember at the time,
sometimes it felt like constantcritique, but if, you know,
and, and I, I feel like I knewthat it was with good
(17:45):
intention.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
It allowed me to listen with an open mind. And I
, being so early in my careerat the time was like, you know,
my first job, kind of full-timejob as a trainer. So I , you
did, like, I did trainingbefore, right. But not sure at
a , as a full-time trainer, Iremember having that, like,
feeling like this was aninflection point. Like, I knew
(18:08):
this was the beginning of acareer. And it's weird to say,
'cause obvious , it's like nowit's like 17 years later. And I
really did make a career of allof this, but I remember, like,
there were times I was like, ohmy gosh, I have to practice
this thing one more time. Youknow how many times I have to
do this? But you just , I ha I, I remember having to like, do
that self-talk. Like, nope ,this is, it's for a good
(18:28):
reason. They're helping you getbetter. They're doing it
because they care. Like I , yousometimes have to self-talk.
But I really do feel like allof that set me up for success
and then led to so many otheropportunities.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Oh, that's fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. That is
exciting. And that feeling, youknow, standing in front of the
room and thinking it's all upto me wherever I'm gonna take
this classroom. Right. That,that's the kind of felt like,
you felt like that was thebeginning. That was the, this
is it, this is what I want tobe doing for a while . Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
That's, that's awesome. Well, you know, as you
think about the, the peoplelistening to our conversation
today , um, you know, other HRprofessionals, other leaders ,
um, is there any advice thatyou could offer to our
listeners? You know, if youwere, if you were gonna come in
as in your consultancy, howwould you approach that? What,
(19:23):
what's some advice that youwould give?
Speaker 1 (19:26):
When I think about sort of the theme of feedback,
I think, and this maybe itfeels a little bit adjacent,
but is accept people for whothey are first and foremost.
Okay. And this is hard becausewe have preconceived notions
about what we think someoneshould be, or how we think
someone should be, you know ,how a manager should be, how
(19:49):
someone should behave as a partof a team, all of those kinds
of things. Yeah. But I thinkthat if we start there, then
the feedback that we give tosomeone is going to be more
valuable, because we're notusing feedback as an excuse to
try to mold someone into theway we think they should be.
(20:11):
We're using feedback as a wayto actually help them improve
and unlock their real potentialversus trying to make them
something that we think theyshould be. So it's a little bit
backwards, but if we start froma place of I just accept you
for who you are Yeah. And theway that you are and the way
that you show up, and then I'llgive you feedback to try to
(20:33):
help you improve. That'sdifferent than , well, this is
the way you should behave inthis organization, or what I'm
paying you to do. And it'sjust, it's a different mindset.
I know it sounds funky, but I ,I hope that's helpful.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
I , no, I really like that. It is subtle. I ,
for me, the image that I got asyou were kind of talking about
that, was that idea of, youknow, accepting the path that
someone is on. Uh , you know, Iam Troy, I'm on a path that is
laid out in front of me. Youmight come in and think, well,
Troy, you should be on adifferent path. Don't, don't
Mm-Hmm . . Don'tstay on that path. Be on a
different path. And maybe whatyou're saying is, let me give
(21:12):
Troy feedback so he cancontinue on this , the path
he's already on and improve,like you say, unlock that
potential rather than giving mefeedback so I can jump onto a
different path, the one youthink I should be on.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Right. Yep . Yeah ,
Speaker 2 (21:25):
I like that.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah, that's a good image.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
I, I know that you're also a yoga instructor,
that that's something that youenjoy doing. Are there any
principles in yoga and in yourtime as a yoga instructor that
can be applied to feedback andreceiving feedback?
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Troy, I've been waiting for somebody to ask me
a question like thatfor years, because I, I, I
really do love yoga. And I morerecently started teaching. I've
been doing it for a long time,and uhhuh, , um,
it's a little bit of a , um, acan of worms, but yoga does
involve a lot of philosophy.
Most people think of it asjust, you know, movement and
(22:04):
flexibility, but it actually ismore than just movement. It's
really mindset. And there's, I,I could probably go on on this
topic for a long time, butthere's maybe two things I'll
say. One of the principles thatyoga teachers often talk about
is the concept of surrender.
And I won't go too far downinto it, but it's the, it's the
idea of letting go of things.
(22:25):
And it's not about giving up,but it's about learning to let
go. And that, for me, how thatties into things like feedback
is learning to not try tocontrol everything. So let go
of the fact that maybe somebodydelivered feedback that was a
little bit hurtful. Maybe theway that they delivered it was
(22:45):
not the best. But if you canlet go of that, then you can
listen to the intent of it, orthe meat of it, or the heart of
it, and, and just kind of letgo of those things. 'cause
otherwise it can hold you back.
Sure. So this concept ofsurrender or letting go. And
then the second one is , um,it's called faa . I might be
(23:08):
saying it wrong, SIAA . Okay .
Which means self study . Andit's about the never ending
journey to fulfill yourpotential. So it's, it's
self-inquiry. It's beingwilling to listen to feedback.
As a person who's givingfeedback, it means being
willing to self-assess andimprove and go, well , could I
have given that feedback in away that would, would have made
(23:30):
them listen more? So it's, it'sself-inquiry and
self-assessment on both ends ,um, as a feedback receiver and
a giver, but just kind of inlife. So I think those two
things to me do really standout , um, in, in terms of yoga
philosophy. But yeah, I, Ithink there's a lot people can
learn from yoga that's not justabout movement.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
I like that. It does sound like number one, I
appreciate your enthusiasm forthat. And it sounds like we
could have a long conversationabout it and, and probably
spend a lot of time just eventhinking about, well, how does,
how does the practice of yogarelate to my everyday career?
You know? Right. Um , apartfrom feedback, but, but , um,
(24:13):
just all kinds of principlesthat, that could be applied
there. Mm-Hmm . ,all of that separate from the
actual movement that increasesour health and in a lot of
ways, and , and , and improvesour mindset just by the fact
that we're moving , um, yes .
And exercising.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
So Yeah . Yeah. And then breathing and the nervous
system. Yes. Yeah. Lots of ,lots of great benefits.
,
Speaker 2 (24:35):
That's, it sounds like a whole separate podcast
episode. We might have to dothat one sometimes . .
Speaker 1 (24:40):
I'm in.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
. I wonder
what are some ways that you've
overcome challenges in, in yourcareer or in your organization?
I talk about your organizationnow thinking, well, she's just
one person in her currentorganization, but what are some
ways that you've overcomechallenges to help achieve one
of your objectives?
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah. So I think you're, it's funny that you say
that. 'cause you're right, itis, I'm, I'm sort of solo in my
organization. But theinteresting thing about it is ,
um, as I've been embarking onthis journey, I've, I've had
people say like, oh, there'sgonna be, you're gonna have so
much freedom, right? Like,you're gonna be your own boss.
And that is true. Maybe youdon't have to deal with some of
the things that you would as aninternal , uh, employee, like
politics or drama or whatever.
(25:22):
Sure . But it doesn't mean thatyou don't have to listen to
people. It doesn't mean thatyou don't have to work with
people. So, going back to like,how do you overcome challenges?
I think one of the ways thatyou overcome challenges in
organizations' relationships ,um, is collaboration. Okay. And
collaboration is, it helps you,you know, and it's gonna help
(25:43):
you achieve success. But ifyou, you have to be willing to
collaborate, which means bothlistening to others and being
vulnerable, to not always beright and give feedback when
your opinion is asked. I mean,those are all parts of what
collaboration looks like. Andso I think that no matter
whether you're a solopreneurand your collaborative partners
(26:04):
are clients mm-Hmm .
or , um, youknow, hey, somebody like you
who's just willing to, youknow, have a conversation or
I'm supporting, you know, youguys in the podcast, you guys
are supporting me. That it's acollaborative effort. Yes . So
I think that collaboration andpartnership applies no matter
whether you're working alone,quote unquote , or you are part
(26:28):
of an organization. That is howyou overcome lots of challenges
.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
I like that. I think that's fantastic. It's good
advice. Um, and yeah, yourpoint, no matter how small your
individual company is , we'reall working with other people.
You know, they might be part ofanother company, they might be
a client, they might be a, apartner that you're working on
a project with. And, and soit's important, like you say,
(26:53):
to , to maintain thatcollaboration across all those
different fronts. And maybe youfelt that too, as you leave a
larger company and move intoyour own solo entrepreneurship,
you start to see thesecollaborators maybe coming out
of the woodwork where youdidn't have a need for them in
a larger company, but you , nowthat you're by yourself, you're
like, oh, but wait, I know.
(27:14):
so-and-so, and I know thesepeople, and all of these
different kinds of networksthat you have and had all along
now start to move to theforefront as you're embarking
on this new career on your own.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Right. And, and just to that point, I just, you
know, we were talking abouttech issues and not having an
IT department. When you weresolopreneur just a couple weeks
ago, I was talking to somebodywho, who gave me some advice on
how to kind of manage that asI, as I start to navigate and,
and just like the differencebetween, you know, hiring
somebody one time versus beingon a retainer that at some
(27:47):
point you're gonna need techhelp . Yeah . It's
gonna happen . Yeah .
So knowing, right.
Collaborating with someone orknowing who knows someone else,
building your network. Mm-Hmm .
, all of that isa big part of it.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Yeah. No , that , that's really true. Well,
Janina, this has been aninteresting conversation. I've
really enjoyed getting to knowyou a little bit. I'm, I'm
really intrigued by the yogaconnection still. Um, but if
people want to know more, ifthey want to continue the
conversation with you , um, isthat something you're open to?
And if so, how do they get intouch with you?
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Yes, and yes. And it doesn't have to be just about
yoga. Sure . I'm happy to talkabout , um, you know,
leadership developmentfeedback. Yes . All the things
. Um, the , probably the bestway is just email me directly ,
uh, which is my first name, soJ-A-N-I-N-A at, and then my
company name is Zenia , soE-N-Z-E-N-I a.com . That's
(28:41):
probably the easiest way totrack me down my website too ,
which is www.zenia.com. That'salso an option. Yeah. And then
LinkedIn,
Speaker 2 (28:51):
I think there's a contact us form on that, on
your webpage too. Yeah . Yep ,
Speaker 1 (28:55):
There is. Yep .
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Well, like I said, I've really enjoyed our
conversation. Thanks so muchfor your time today and for
your insights. I appreciate it.
Thanks Jamina.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Thanks for having me, Troy. Have a great day.
Accept people for who they are first and
foremost. And this is hardbecause we have preconceived
notions about what we thinksomeone should be or how we
think someone should be. Youknow , how a manager should be,
how someone should behave as apart of a team, all of those
kinds of things. But I thinkthat if we start there, then
(00:24):
the feedback that we give tosomeone is going to be more
valuable because we're notusing feedback as an excuse to
try to mold someone into theway we think they should be.
We're using feedback as a wayto actually help them improve
and unlock their real potentialversus trying to make them
something that we think theyshould be.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Hello, welcome to Simply Feedback, the podcast
hosted by Learning Bridge . Iam your host, Troy Blazer. Glad
to have you along for ourepisode today. I'm very excited
about our guest today. Just tointroduce her, Janina Aise is a
seasoned learning anddevelopment professional with
more than 17 years ofexperience. She has led
(01:11):
projects spanning the fullcycle of talent development
from orientation for new hiresto leadership courses for
senior leaders. Janina has ledteams of learning and
organizational developmentprofessionals and overseeing
the creation of programs. Rightfrom inception, she has played
a role in the orchestration ofcompany-wide engagement
(01:31):
surveys, performanceevaluations, talent reviews ,
and 360 degree leader feedback.
Janina has worked acrossmultiple industries, most
recently as director ofleadership development for a
regional bank, and she'scurrently working independently
and is available for learningprojects. Janina, welcome to
Simply Feedback. It's so goodto have you with us today.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Thank you, Troy. I am excited to be here, and I
have to tell you, this is myvery first podcast experience,
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Awesome. Maybe , um, just to help us get to know you
a little bit, I wonder if youcould tell us about a time that
somebody gave you feedback,whether professionally or
personally , um, but maybe ithad an impact on your life.
Could you share a story withus?
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Yeah, absolutely. So you mentioned in my intro that
I've worked in the learning anddevelopment field for a pretty
long time. So when you work inthat space, you get a lot of
feedback,
when I was a participant in a360 process, so there was an
entire team of HR professionalsand all of us were kind of
(02:37):
going through it at the sametime. Mm-Hmm .
And at the time, my managerfollowed up with me, you know,
afterwards and sort of was thatkind of coach or support
through the process. And, youknow, largely the feedback that
came through to me and, andthrough the process really just
gave me a boost of confidencethat I don't think I had at the
time that really led me to beable to be more authentic as a
(03:00):
leader, which was, I think,really important learning to be
authentic, be a little bit morevulnerable as a leader. Mm-Hmm
.
grow my career just by being astronger leader.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Oh, that's fantastic. It's, it's
interesting sometimes how , um,when you were part of that 360
process, you're, you're sort ofgenuinely soliciting feedback
from people, and so you canfeel like the feedback that you
receive is honest, it'sthoughtful, it's not just
something that was tossed offlightly. And so really almost
(03:34):
regardless of what you hear,you can take that feedback more
seriously into the way that youwork, if that makes sense. Um,
as opposed to just, you know,your manager sort of gives you
a, a , a compliment off thecuff and you're like, well,
maybe they weren't reallypaying very much attention to
the way I presented that justnow, even though they gave me a
compliment about it. You candisregard that and, and sort of
keep feeling the way that youfeel, but if it's part of a, a
(03:56):
larger, more earnest process,then it can mean different
things to you because it wasgiven maybe more sincerely.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yeah. I think, you know, it's interesting that you
say that because I, I thinkthat if you go into your 360
process with that belief,right, the mindset that people
are giving me this feedbackbecause they care, because it's
important and I'm willing andkind of open to it as a sort of
learner participant , um, thenyes. But
(04:27):
caveat is there are lots ofpeople that will through
experiences like that and arenot walking into it with an
open mind Mm-Hmm.
feedback doesn't land well andisn't received well and isn't,
you know, something that has asignificant impact on your life
because really they're not opento receiving it, so they're
kind of shutting it off.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah. Yeah. It can be a scary thing for sure.
Right? Yeah. Um, to, to openyourself up to that kind of
feedback. So Janina, as you'veworked with individuals maybe
who don't come in with thatkind of open mindset, are there
ways or things that you can doto help them open, be a little
bit more open to the feedbackthat they're about to receive
in a 360 process?
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Oh, that's a, I feel like there's a loaded question
Yes and no. So I say yesbecause I do believe you can
help people change theirmindset. I mean, just the heart
of, obviously if I work in alearning and development field,
I must believe that, right? Um,yeah . But at the end of the
day, people always make thatdecision for themselves. So you
can give them information, youcan give them maybe a different
(05:32):
way to frame their mindsetgoing into the process, and not
to be a sales pitch for the ,the , the feedback jiu-jitsu,
but that all the content that'scontained in, in that, you
know, class or course is thetype of feedback that you need
to give somebody or the typeof, not feedback, but the type
(05:52):
of information you need to givesomebody to help them maybe
reframe their mindset. The endof the day though, it's up to
them to take that, absorb itand actually make that change
in their own head. Um, but Ithink that sometimes people
have just never been exposed tothat kind of information or
that way of thinking, becauseif, you know, people are raised
(06:13):
or worked in an environmentwhere everybody's always on the
defensive, you know, that kindof thing, then it's really hard
for them because they havenever seen it another way.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Yeah. And, and you kind of bring up a good point,
and that is, it can depend onthe culture that, that you're
working in, that everybody'sworking in in terms of Yep .
What is normal for us? Do weshare feedback with one
another? Or is it justeverybody's kind of heads down,
do your work and don't worryabout what other people are
doing, right?
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yep . Yeah .
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Um, if we assume for a minute that people are open
to feedback as, as you'veworked with different
organizations over the years,what are some things that
you've done to help employeesget that feedback? What, what
are some things that haveworked well or maybe some
challenges that you've seenthat have not gone as well?
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yeah, so I think specifically when you think
about the 360 process Mm-Hmm.
not work well. And going backto what I said earlier, I think
at the end of the day, a lot ofit comes down to the
individual. So outside of anyorganizational strategy on how
you communicate, how you rollit out, even if you do
everything right, there arestill going to be individual
(07:20):
people that do not wanna be apart of the process and don't
want the feedback from others.
Okay . So they will on thesurface, go, oh, yeah, I'm
really open. I love feedback,blah , blah , blah . Right?
They'll say all the thingsthey're supposed to say, but
then when it comes time to readthe report, listen to the
report, have a conversation,and then take action on it, the
door close , they're notactually interested in making
(07:41):
the change. Um, you can't do alot about that person other
than doing all the rightthings, right. Having the right
communication strategy. Sure .
Making sure that you've engagedthem in the process, letting
them know why it matters, tyingit to their growth versus their
performance, or , you know, allthe things that you can do,
even if you've done them right.
(08:02):
There are still gonna be thosefolks. Um, but I think that
taking an approach where youuse something like a 360
process as an intentional partof programs for emerging
leaders, manager developmentthings and kind of processes
where the people who are inthat process are already
engaged. They already wantfeedback, they want to grow ,
(08:25):
they're interested, they'reopen, they're eager. It makes
it so much better because itnever feels forced. It feels
like they were a part of it andthey were engaged from the very
beginning. And that just makesthe coaching process better. It
makes it more productive, itmakes it more successful. So I
think if anybody's going toimplement something like this
(08:45):
and they don't already have it,starting with groups like that,
it's essentially voluntary, youknow? Yeah. Uh , versus every
single person is gonna gothrough this, which then feels
like, well , I don't know if Ineed it. Do I need it? Is this
, you know, it , it can justmake it much more approachable
for people because they wantedto be a part of it.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yeah. I really like that. You know, you can't
really give someone adviceunless they're asking for it,
and it's the same withfeedback, right ? Right. And so
if they're part of that programwhere maybe they've indicated,
Hey, I want to be part of this.
Okay, great, welcome to theprogram, A 360 is, is part of
the program. And then they'remore than happy to do that.
They're looking forward to it,and they're excited about it.
(09:25):
Right . On the flip side, ifit's just, well, the company
president said every manager inthe company is gonna do a 360,
then I guess I have to do it.
And, you know, they get resultsand they find reasons to
justify that feedback orrationalize it, or, you know,
so and so just doesn'tunderstand my perspective when
they gave that feedback. And soRight. They can be much more
(09:46):
closed off to it. Yeah ,
Speaker 1 (09:48):
For sure. Yeah. Seen all of that
Speaker 2 (09:50):
something that's tied to abroader initiative, a broader,
you know, a program , um, sothat it's not just , uh, an
isolated event to do this 360.
Um, yeah . Any other ways thatyou tried to provide employees
with feedback over the yearsbesides a 360?
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Sure . I mean, sure.
I think as a , an individualleader, I mean, I have, you
know, for most of my career haddirect reports, you know,
myself. Okay . So people who,who I'm responsible for, you
know, on a regular basis,providing feedback, having
one-on-ones doing midyearreviews, annual performance
reviews, all, all of that. Um,so for me, I mean, I think me
(10:35):
personally, I think my kind ofstyle and preferences kind of,
you know, grew over the years.
One of the things that I found, um, is grouping feedback. So
kind of looking for themes andidentifying the stuff that
matters most.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
And the reason I say that is because I have worked
in environments where peoplewill give you feedback, let's
say on one of your directreports and say, let , let's
just pretend that somebody'sgiving me feedback about you,
Troy. Okay? Okay . Sure. Well ,you know , Troy said this one
thing, and then he did this onething, and then there was this
one time, and they want tolike, download every little
(11:17):
detail to you. And as a leader,I found that, okay, I have to,
I have to, I'm like a funnel, Ihave to absorb all of it Yeah.
And take it in, but not spit itall back out at the end,
because that is not productiveand people can only absorb so
much. Especially because thenature of feedback in a lot of
organizations is constructive.
(11:38):
Mm-Hmm .
stuff I wanna tell you aboutTroy. Yeah. Here's all the tiny
little things. I didn't likethe way he worded that. I
didn't like this slide, Ididn't like the way he handled
that one situation. And peoplewill download sometimes that
information to you as a leader.
Yeah. And I have over the yearsfound that I really have to
(11:59):
take it all in, maybe come upwith the most common themes, if
you will. Mm-Hmm.
things even matter
Just because it matters to thatone person that downloaded it
to you doesn't mean that itactually matters to the
customer, the organization, theindividual person to their
(12:19):
overall performance. It couldbe that this person ha it could
be telling you more about thatperson, if you will. Like, yes,
that person, it just is reallypassive aggressive . That
person is nitpicky that perwhatever the, you know, it
sometimes it's telling you moreabout the feedback giver than
the person that they thinkneeds to receive it.
So I would, I , I would adviseleaders to take it all in, but
(12:42):
don't spit it all back out.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yeah. And I think part of your role as a leader
in that instance is to be alistener. Right. And you may be
doing more good for the persondownloading the feedback just
to listen, and they go awaythinking, oh, that's a load off
. And things may or may notchange with the person who they
were giving feedback on, butthey feel like they've been
able to sort of unload thatburden that they weren't
(13:06):
carrying. Right. And so , yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Yeah , that's a great point. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
But, and , and then I think you really do a service
for your, the , the people thatyou're supervising , um, to, to
sort of be, not a barriernecessarily, but a filter for
that feedback to say, okay, letme synthesize a few things
together here, and I'll sharewhat is appropriate or, or what
is maybe most useful. But likeyou said, none of us can
(13:31):
respond to all the things atonce. Right . We can only focus
on a few select things.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Right. Yeah .
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Well, I know that you recently transitioned, we
talked about you worked at aregional bank as director of
leadership development , movingfrom that to running your own
consulting company. Tell us alittle bit about that
experience. Are there, arethere things that you've
learned in that transition sofar?
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Oh, gosh, so many things. I mean, it's only been
a couple weeks, so to say I'mrunning a consult and I'm
saying that in air quotes forpeople that can't see the video
Yeah.
It's, it's me. I'm asolopreneur.
you know, I think I , I , I didby no means think that it would
be easy. Um, I think there'sprobably two big things I've
learned, one, which I think Ialready knew, but it , it's
(14:19):
become much more clear, is thatyou own your own career. You
are the driver, and you will,no one will ever care about
your career more than you do.
Mm-Hmm.
care about your career. Noone's gonna care about your
business more than you do. Andso you have to take it into
your own hands and do what youwant with it. Um, and then I
(14:40):
think the second thing is justthat I think in my mind, I
always knew that starting abusiness like a brick and
mortar business, you knowMm-Hmm .
old days, right . Like a storeor a restaurant or something is
a lot of work. What I'verealized in doing this, where
you're starting a business thatthere's no brick and mortar.
(15:01):
Yeah. It's a service I'mproviding, but that it requires
a great deal of discipline andorganization. There's so many
things from you , you know, youset up your LLC, your website,
your licenses, yeah . Yoursocial media, a bank account,
and then when you start makingmoney, you have to figure out
bookkeeping and taxes. And soit's a lot of organizing
(15:23):
of the things I'm pretty goodat. Oh , that's good . Enjoy
doing. But it really is a lotof , um, there's a lot of
minutiae to manage.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
And, and sometimes, I don't know if you feel this
way, sometimes you're probablysaying to yourself, I don't
wanna be doing all this. I wantto do the thing that I love.
Right. I want to be right inthere with and with a client
helping 'em figure out theirproblems. And instead, I've got
to do all of these fourdifferent tasks before I can
even get to the point where Ican start finding those
(15:55):
clients. There's definitelypros and cons to, to that being
that solopreneur. Right. Iwonder, you know, in your
different interactions over theyears, as you've coached
leaders and, and helped leadersdevelop , um, can you think of
a specific time or anexperience when you've seen
feedback cause a point ofinflection in someone's career
that you were working with?
(16:16):
Whether for good or for bad? Idon't know.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Yeah. You know, I don't know if this is , uh, an
inflection point, and this ispre a little bit more personal,
but , um, as a , someone thathad a career in learning and
development Yeah . In thebeginning, the early days , uh,
as a trainer, right. Your jobis to mostly deliver
information that someone elsehas designed, written, created.
(16:41):
Okay. And so, as a, in theearly days, I feel like my role
was, you know, accuracy. Sodeliver the information in a
way that's accurate, but alsomake it feel authentic and
engage your learners. And mindyou, this is the early days
before we did a lot of any kindof online, there's no podcast,
any of that. So I was justlike, classroom training, you
(17:01):
know, Uhhuh ,
Um , but I remember, like, Ihave these very vivid memories
of lots and lots and lots ofpracticing, which isn't
something a lot of people getto do in their job . So it's,
on the one hand, it's , um,it's really a great privilege
to get a chance to practice,but it's also constant
feedback. So deliver, you know,this kind of section of the
(17:24):
script, and then you get peerfeedback, feedback from your
boss, someone's gonna interruptyou, and then they're gonna
give you feedback on yourstyle, your word choices, your
flow, your tone. Yeah. Uh , andit, I, I remember at the time,
sometimes it felt like constantcritique, but if, you know,
and, and I, I feel like I knewthat it was with good
(17:45):
intention.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
It allowed me to listen with an open mind. And I
, being so early in my careerat the time was like, you know,
my first job, kind of full-timejob as a trainer. So I , you
did, like, I did trainingbefore, right. But not sure at
a , as a full-time trainer, Iremember having that, like,
feeling like this was aninflection point. Like, I knew
(18:08):
this was the beginning of acareer. And it's weird to say,
'cause obvious , it's like nowit's like 17 years later. And I
really did make a career of allof this, but I remember, like,
there were times I was like, ohmy gosh, I have to practice
this thing one more time. Youknow how many times I have to
do this? But you just , I ha I, I remember having to like, do
that self-talk. Like, nope ,this is, it's for a good
(18:28):
reason. They're helping you getbetter. They're doing it
because they care. Like I , yousometimes have to self-talk.
But I really do feel like allof that set me up for success
and then led to so many otheropportunities.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Oh, that's fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. That is
exciting. And that feeling, youknow, standing in front of the
room and thinking it's all upto me wherever I'm gonna take
this classroom. Right. That,that's the kind of felt like,
you felt like that was thebeginning. That was the, this
is it, this is what I want tobe doing for a while . Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
That's, that's awesome. Well, you know, as you
think about the, the peoplelistening to our conversation
today , um, you know, other HRprofessionals, other leaders ,
um, is there any advice thatyou could offer to our
listeners? You know, if youwere, if you were gonna come in
as in your consultancy, howwould you approach that? What,
(19:23):
what's some advice that youwould give?
Speaker 1 (19:26):
When I think about sort of the theme of feedback,
I think, and this maybe itfeels a little bit adjacent,
but is accept people for whothey are first and foremost.
Okay. And this is hard becausewe have preconceived notions
about what we think someoneshould be, or how we think
someone should be, you know ,how a manager should be, how
(19:49):
someone should behave as a partof a team, all of those kinds
of things. Yeah. But I thinkthat if we start there, then
the feedback that we give tosomeone is going to be more
valuable, because we're notusing feedback as an excuse to
try to mold someone into theway we think they should be.
(20:11):
We're using feedback as a wayto actually help them improve
and unlock their real potentialversus trying to make them
something that we think theyshould be. So it's a little bit
backwards, but if we start froma place of I just accept you
for who you are Yeah. And theway that you are and the way
that you show up, and then I'llgive you feedback to try to
(20:33):
help you improve. That'sdifferent than , well, this is
the way you should behave inthis organization, or what I'm
paying you to do. And it'sjust, it's a different mindset.
I know it sounds funky, but I ,I hope that's helpful.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
I , no, I really like that. It is subtle. I ,
for me, the image that I got asyou were kind of talking about
that, was that idea of, youknow, accepting the path that
someone is on. Uh , you know, Iam Troy, I'm on a path that is
laid out in front of me. Youmight come in and think, well,
Troy, you should be on adifferent path. Don't, don't
Mm-Hmm .
different path. And maybe whatyou're saying is, let me give
(21:12):
Troy feedback so he cancontinue on this , the path
he's already on and improve,like you say, unlock that
potential rather than giving mefeedback so I can jump onto a
different path, the one youthink I should be on.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Right. Yep . Yeah ,
Speaker 2 (21:25):
I like that.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah, that's a good image.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
I, I know that you're also a yoga instructor,
that that's something that youenjoy doing. Are there any
principles in yoga and in yourtime as a yoga instructor that
can be applied to feedback andreceiving feedback?
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Troy, I've been waiting for somebody to ask me
a question like that
really do love yoga. And I morerecently started teaching. I've
been doing it for a long time,and uhhuh,
it's a little bit of a , um, acan of worms, but yoga does
involve a lot of philosophy.
Most people think of it asjust, you know, movement and
(22:04):
flexibility, but it actually ismore than just movement. It's
really mindset. And there's, I,I could probably go on on this
topic for a long time, butthere's maybe two things I'll
say. One of the principles thatyoga teachers often talk about
is the concept of surrender.
And I won't go too far downinto it, but it's the, it's the
idea of letting go of things.
(22:25):
And it's not about giving up,but it's about learning to let
go. And that, for me, how thatties into things like feedback
is learning to not try tocontrol everything. So let go
of the fact that maybe somebodydelivered feedback that was a
little bit hurtful. Maybe theway that they delivered it was
(22:45):
not the best. But if you canlet go of that, then you can
listen to the intent of it, orthe meat of it, or the heart of
it, and, and just kind of letgo of those things. 'cause
otherwise it can hold you back.
Sure. So this concept ofsurrender or letting go. And
then the second one is , um,it's called faa . I might be
(23:08):
saying it wrong, SIAA . Okay .
Which means self study . Andit's about the never ending
journey to fulfill yourpotential. So it's, it's
self-inquiry. It's beingwilling to listen to feedback.
As a person who's givingfeedback, it means being
willing to self-assess andimprove and go, well , could I
have given that feedback in away that would, would have made
(23:30):
them listen more? So it's, it'sself-inquiry and
self-assessment on both ends ,um, as a feedback receiver and
a giver, but just kind of inlife. So I think those two
things to me do really standout , um, in, in terms of yoga
philosophy. But yeah, I, Ithink there's a lot people can
learn from yoga that's not justabout movement.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
I like that. It does sound like number one, I
appreciate your enthusiasm forthat. And it sounds like we
could have a long conversationabout it and, and probably
spend a lot of time just eventhinking about, well, how does,
how does the practice of yogarelate to my everyday career?
You know? Right. Um , apartfrom feedback, but, but , um,
(24:13):
just all kinds of principlesthat, that could be applied
there. Mm-Hmm .
actual movement that increasesour health and in a lot of
ways, and , and , and improvesour mindset just by the fact
that we're moving , um, yes .
And exercising.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
So Yeah . Yeah. And then breathing and the nervous
system. Yes. Yeah. Lots of ,lots of great benefits.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
That's, it sounds like a whole separate podcast
episode. We might have to dothat one sometimes .
Speaker 1 (24:40):
I'm in
Speaker 2 (24:41):
overcome challenges in, in yourcareer or in your organization?
I talk about your organizationnow thinking, well, she's just
one person in her currentorganization, but what are some
ways that you've overcomechallenges to help achieve one
of your objectives?
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah. So I think you're, it's funny that you say
that. 'cause you're right, itis, I'm, I'm sort of solo in my
organization. But theinteresting thing about it is ,
um, as I've been embarking onthis journey, I've, I've had
people say like, oh, there'sgonna be, you're gonna have so
much freedom, right? Like,you're gonna be your own boss.
And that is true. Maybe youdon't have to deal with some of
the things that you would as aninternal , uh, employee, like
politics or drama or whatever.
(25:22):
Sure . But it doesn't mean thatyou don't have to listen to
people. It doesn't mean thatyou don't have to work with
people. So, going back to like,how do you overcome challenges?
I think one of the ways thatyou overcome challenges in
organizations' relationships ,um, is collaboration. Okay. And
collaboration is, it helps you,you know, and it's gonna help
(25:43):
you achieve success. But ifyou, you have to be willing to
collaborate, which means bothlistening to others and being
vulnerable, to not always beright and give feedback when
your opinion is asked. I mean,those are all parts of what
collaboration looks like. Andso I think that no matter
whether you're a solopreneurand your collaborative partners
(26:04):
are clients mm-Hmm .
who's just willing to, youknow, have a conversation or
I'm supporting, you know, youguys in the podcast, you guys
are supporting me. That it's acollaborative effort. Yes . So
I think that collaboration andpartnership applies no matter
whether you're working alone,quote unquote , or you are part
(26:28):
of an organization. That is howyou overcome lots of challenges
.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
I like that. I think that's fantastic. It's good
advice. Um, and yeah, yourpoint, no matter how small your
individual company is , we'reall working with other people.
You know, they might be part ofanother company, they might be
a client, they might be a, apartner that you're working on
a project with. And, and soit's important, like you say,
(26:53):
to , to maintain thatcollaboration across all those
different fronts. And maybe youfelt that too, as you leave a
larger company and move intoyour own solo entrepreneurship,
you start to see thesecollaborators maybe coming out
of the woodwork where youdidn't have a need for them in
a larger company, but you , nowthat you're by yourself, you're
like, oh, but wait, I know.
(27:14):
so-and-so, and I know thesepeople, and all of these
different kinds of networksthat you have and had all along
now start to move to theforefront as you're embarking
on this new career on your own.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Right. And, and just to that point, I just, you
know, we were talking abouttech issues and not having an
IT department. When you weresolopreneur just a couple weeks
ago, I was talking to somebodywho, who gave me some advice on
how to kind of manage that asI, as I start to navigate and,
and just like the differencebetween, you know, hiring
somebody one time versus beingon a retainer that at some
(27:47):
point you're gonna need techhelp
gonna happen
So knowing, right.
Collaborating with someone orknowing who knows someone else,
building your network. Mm-Hmm .
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Yeah. No , that , that's really true. Well,
Janina, this has been aninteresting conversation. I've
really enjoyed getting to knowyou a little bit. I'm, I'm
really intrigued by the yogaconnection still. Um, but if
people want to know more, ifthey want to continue the
conversation with you , um, isthat something you're open to?
And if so, how do they get intouch with you?
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Yes, and yes. And it doesn't have to be just about
yoga. Sure . I'm happy to talkabout , um, you know,
leadership developmentfeedback. Yes . All the things
. Um, the , probably the bestway is just email me directly ,
uh, which is my first name, soJ-A-N-I-N-A at, and then my
company name is Zenia , soE-N-Z-E-N-I a.com . That's
(28:41):
probably the easiest way totrack me down my website too ,
which is www.zenia.com. That'salso an option. Yeah. And then
LinkedIn,
Speaker 2 (28:51):
I think there's a contact us form on that, on
your webpage too. Yeah . Yep ,
Speaker 1 (28:55):
There is. Yep .
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Well, like I said, I've really enjoyed our
conversation. Thanks so muchfor your time today and for
your insights. I appreciate it.
Thanks Jamina.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Thanks for having me, Troy. Have a great day.
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