Episode 76: Kathrine Knight // Part 1

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Lindsay and I'm Megan, and this is Sinners
Among Saints.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Hello, welcome back.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
How's your week been?
Oh man, it's been bananas.
This is so busy, so busy.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
And it's been windy up north here, oh we none of us
could sleep.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
So I don't know how high the wind is.
It feels like it's like 60miles per hour.
But last night we put the kidsto bed and we're laying in bed
and all of a sudden we hear thislike noise that sounds like
somebody is in, like on thefloor of our bedroom, like
growling.
It was freaky.
And so we I was like what wasthat I?

Speaker 2 (01:15):
was like.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
I have no idea.
And then all of a sudden, Cruzcomes running out of his room.
Mom, what was that noise?
And I was like I don't know.
And then we figured out it wasthe barbecue out in our backyard
.
Oh, that was getting blownacross the patio and it was like
making this horrific scrapingnoise.
It was so, it's so windy.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah, we got like the alert through like the
university like, oh my God, it'sgonna like you're gonna blow
away like leave for work earlybecause we're not closing.
Like campus is still open and itliterally has not been windy
like hardly at all in like theSalt Lake area.
I'm in Murray like there's nowind, but I did watch a video
today on Tic Tac and I don'tknow where it was, but it

(02:00):
reminded me of like here becauseI know like Caseville and like
North here has been like, yeah,super windy, so windy, and it's
this husband outside and he'slike it's like when your husband
refuses to let the trampolineblow away and it is like
literally like I don't knowhurricane winds.
This guy is out there and he'slike hammering you can tell like
the little metal thingies, likeyou know, like on the legs of

(02:22):
the trampoline you shaped yeah.
So he's like out there hammeringit in, the wife's like oh my
God, there's the neighbor'strampoline that comes like
flying in their backyard, and sohe's like running around the
trampoline like hammering thesein.
And then, when he gets to thebackside their trampoline, still
like lifts up all the placeswhere he's hammered it in and
just like flies away but likeknocks him over, like, and she's
like screams his name and hegoes like tumbling around on the

(02:43):
ground.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
Ours is positioned now by our fence and so it kind
of blocks them a little bit.
But that happened to us lastyear, did it, and it blew into
the fence and like broke thefence?

Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yeah, ours, because we're in a townhouse, so like
it's very small back area.
And we have like a, it's like asix foot fence all around
anyway.
And so even what was that twoweeks ago or whatever, when it
was like torrential winds likeso, so bad?
It was really windy and it likekind of bent the poles that
hold like the net up, but itdidn't ever like blow anything

(03:14):
like out of our yard.
Well, that's good.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
But it will be the hot tub cover.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
It didn't our hot tub cover like clips on.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
Okay, good.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
Clipped on, but it did actually blow the the ladder
.
Oh, because, like a couple dayslater, the kids are not to jump
and Cody's like Where's theladder?
And I was like I don't know.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yeah, it's stupid.
I would actually prefer to havea snowstorm than a windstorm,
because then there's just shitall over my yard.
There's like I mean, it's justeverywhere and there's a tree.
So right by where our window iswe have two big trees.
We have like a big rose bushand then a plum tree that we
have been terrible about pruningand we never prune anything,

(03:54):
yeah, and so that it's now likehitting up against the house.
So every time it's windy allyou hear is like scraping and
then it's like whistling noisesthe whole night and I didn't
sleep well last night and it'sthe kids.
It freaks the kids out.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
And I don't know what it is about like horrific
weather, but I love every secondof that.
I love when it's likefreakishly windy and I can like
hear in my house and it likemakes my heart like so happy and
literally Cody comes home fromwork on all of these days and
wants to like murder all ofsociety because the weather was

(04:30):
bad and it just like pisses himoff so much I'm like I love it,
I like it.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
I like when it's bad weather and I can just like curl
up inside and read a book andlike open my windows.
But when I'm sleeping and it'skeeping me up, that's a problem.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
It's like white noise for me when I'm done with it.
Yeah, I think it's because mymom snored so freaking.
Well right, you're just likeused to it.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
I can like certain number of noise.
I literally can see you need tosleep.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
Yeah, there's like.
I can sleep through anything,because I'm just so you.
I remember like the first timeShane spent the night when we
were like teenagers and the nextmorning he was like how do you
sleep at night and I was likewhat?
And he's like your mom snored,yeah, so loud, and I was like,
oh, he's like I didn't sleep atall, like no, I remember that
too.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
And sleeping over at your house.
When you guys were in theapartment, kind of by Mountain
View, and it was a smaller place, oh yeah, your other house.
You were like separated alittle bit, but that was the
first time that I had like sleptat your house where it was like
right next door, and I was like, oh my God, what is happening?
And that's before I knew aboutsleep apnea, right.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah, but I mean, I didn't know about it, I'm always
snored.
I'm sure it was what it soundedlike in the womb, so it's just
normal for me.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
I cannot sound like I cannot sleep to any of that.
So Mario will snore sometimeslike pretty loud and I have to
like punch him or like, yes,like I'm going to kill you.

Speaker 2 (05:56):
You have to stop.
There was.
They did something on the radiothe other day about like what
did it say?
It was like 52% of people saythat like their partner snore,
getting like affects their sleep.
So like yeah, they like eithersleep in separate rooms or
whatever because of that.
And I was like Cody does sleepI'm pretty sure he probably
asleep apnea, but he can snorepretty loud.

(06:18):
There's some nights where hedoesn't snore at all, so maybe
he doesn't have it, but likethere are times where it is like
it is legit snoring and butit's like I'm just so used to it
Like it does not bother me.
And I guess one time Nolanspent the night at his grandma
at Monique's house, and I thinkher husband snores really loud
and Nolan was sleeping like intheir room, say, like a really

(06:38):
big bedroom with like almostlike a seating area, okay, and
there.
So it's like it's really big.
So he was sleeping on this likeI don't know big thing at like
the end of their bed and I guesshe woke up in the middle of
night and woke up and was likegrandma, what is that noise?
It's just.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
It's just like I didn't want for warn him, I
didn't even think about it orthat can be loud, and I know
Mario does not have sleep apnea,but what especially like if he
gets sick?
He has really bad allergies,yeah, and so if he gets sick at
all, there's been times whereI've kicked him to Cruz's room
because I'm like, no, I cannotsleep.
And when we go to his mom'shouse I take the bedroom because

(07:15):
they have very limited sleepingareas.
So the boys are on an airmattress in the living room, One
of them sleeps sleeps on thecouch and then one of them
sleeps on a recliner in herhouse and then in the middle
room there's like a twin bedthat's tiny, so I always take
that room and all of the boys.
Every morning they wake up.
I didn't sleep at all.
Dad snores so loud.

(07:36):
Yeah, I feel my pain.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
Yeah, I think I only snore like when I do get really
stuffy, just because I can'tfreaking breathe at all.
Yeah, I think I do too, otherthan that, because those are the
only times in Cody's like youwere snoring last night I'm like
oh God, I'm so sorry.
And he's like no, it's okay, Ijust can't breathe.
I'm so stuffy.
You're like listen pop versuskettle Shut the hell up.
Yeah, it doesn't even likedoesn't even phase me at all.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
Mario is definitely not every night, or I would
probably.
I don't know.
I don't know what I would do.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
I'm really against the sleeping in separate rooms.
I am too.
That would be so hard If thatwas something that really kept
you up at night.
That would be really hardbecause that also affects, like,
your mental well being, and Idon't sleep when Mario is not,
like when Mario's gone or not inbed next to me.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yeah, like, even if he is downstairs and I have to
get up early, so I go to bed,I'll make him come upstairs,
because I can't sleep unlesshe's next to me.
It is weird.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
And see my whole, like literally the majority of
my marriage.
I went to bed alone because wealways worked like opposite
shifts and Shane would be cominghome, like when I was getting
up in the morning, and so I wasso, so used to it.
But now, like me and Codyalways go to bed together, no
matter what time he gets, like Ijust wait up and I always go to
bed like at the same time ashim, yeah, and so it is weird

(08:50):
now, like if not that he's evernot there, but like if I go
somewhere, like you know, out oftown or whatever, and then he's
not like in bed, it is like aweird, weird thing.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
Yeah, it is weird and super weird.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
You should get used to them Well.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
so I'm sorry for all of the you know, spouses of
people who snore and can't sleepbecause that sounds miserable.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
I mean, yeah, I feel I feel for you if you can't
sleep.
Yeah, it's my white noise.
No, I can't do it.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yeah, so I do, we have anything I?

Speaker 2 (09:26):
don't think we have anything.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
We have some really like fun stuff coming up.
Yes, we are working in.
We are in the works to takethis thing to the next level.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
We are leveling up very, very appreciated help
right when, I level up.
I really wanted to play theMario like.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
I know, I wish we had a mixture.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
I know I was like oh my god, that would be so great,
that would be great.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
That would have been like a perfect insert right
there.
So if any of our people thatare local or even if you work,
not local you want to sponsor us, reach out to us and let us
know we can have a sponsorshipwhere we do an ad for you and,
yeah, reach out to us and let usknow.

(10:14):
So we've got some big thingscoming and so make sure that you
go follow us on all of ourthings our Instagram, our
Facebook, our TikTok and then,if you want to support us
further on the show aside fromjust listening every week, go to
our Patreon, patreoncom slashcenters among saints podcast,

(10:36):
and then we have three tiersthat you can sign up for and you
get lots of fun goodies you do,and also book your trip to
Denver.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yes, in July, july 11th through the 14th, I believe
, is the True Crime andParanormal Podcast Festival.
Yeah, in Denver and we're goingto be there and it was a lot of
fun last year.
There's a ton of other likepodcasts there, some paranormal
ones which are kind of fun likethat, just focus only on

(11:05):
paranormal stuff.
So they're like good at it, youknow.
I think sometimes we try to andwe're just not.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
It's not our niche, like like other people, but it's
fun and it's you get to meetother podcasters, yeah, and
there's hold off on buying yourtickets, though, just consider
it, because we're trying to dosomething with them for sure,
and if it pans out we'll let youknow.
If it doesn't pan out, thenwe'll tell you to go buy your
tickets now.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
Look at room.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
Yeah, look into it, book yourself like a book, plan
things.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yeah, make a plan to go down there and hang out with
us.
Yeah, it'll be fun and we'llget some drinks or something.
Yeah, we would be happy to hangout people after the oh yeah,
there's a super fun bar downtownDenver called.
I think it's one up and it'slike the.
It's like quarters in downtownSalt Lake.
That's a nice, like a videogame bar.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
Oh, that would be fun , and it's super fun.
Okay so excellent, let's allmeet up there, guys.
Let's do it All right.
Well, on that note, we're goingto get into this case, and this
week we're covering possibly Idon't want to say for sure, but
possibly one of the mostdepraved individuals we have

(12:17):
covered yet.
Oh she it is a female is knownas the Australian.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
Hannibal Lecter.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
Although she only ever killed one person, her life
was riddled with victims.
This is a two parter becauseit's pretty extensive.
To Pada to Pada, and I did reada book about this case called
Beyond Bad by Sandra Lee, andthere's a lot of interviews with
the family and friends thathappen after the fact and that's

(12:52):
how she kind of like putseverything together with the
book.
Okay, very, very well written,and if you are on Audible, it's
an Australian woman who reads it.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
It's great.
I wonder if it's the same onewho did the last.
I've been reading thislistening to the series on
Audible.
It's like an Australiandetective lady, but it's an
Australian person that does it,and I just love listening to her
topic of her narrative.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
Yeah, it was the same person.
It was like a pretty nice read,even though it was like
terrible, right, yeah, thingsthat you're hearing it's just
like so great.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
It is so great, I don't know what it is.
And then, like Australian theaccent, there's some.
You guys say some shit likekind of weird, like it's not,
it's definitely not like Britishright.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
Like what were they say there?
There was one part where theywere talking about taking the
garbage out and first of all,it's a rubbish bin right, which
is right but then it's a wheeliecart, I think that's what they
called it.
So the trash can, the big trashcan that you put out on the
side of your side, it's thewheelie cart.
But they say like I'm prettysure that's what they call it
Like the word.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
No, it's like got it like a weird inflection at the
end.
It's not just like like whatyou could do like a British
accent and kind of throw it inthere, I love it.
Yeah, I like wish I could do itbecause I love it so much, I
know.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
So much I want to go to Australia.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
There's a guy on this season.
I've married at first site.

Speaker 1 (14:10):
That's from New Zealand, but it's very similar
to Australia and I every timebut every time you talk to them
just like listen to him forever.
Talk to me.
You could just talk to me.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
Make some cuter automatically, it does.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
Yeah, I agree, I'm watching it right now actually,
so I'm not too far in becauseI've been real busy with this
case, but I'm like a little bitin.
It's a good one.
Yeah, so this is the case ofCatherine Knight.
I do it Often referred to asKath or Kathy.
She was born on October 24,1955 in Tentor filled, australia

(14:49):
, tentor filled.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
Tentor filled All right.
Well, she's not a Libra.
Just, everyone knows Weird,weird.
We do not claim her, she isjust outside of us.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
But she is.
No, she isn't, she really isn'tno.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
Oh, I thought she was no.
October 22nd is when it changes, is the?

Speaker 1 (15:05):
cut off.
Mm-hmm.
What's after?
Libra?
I don't even know.
Scorpio Okay, maybe I'm not abig sign person.
I know my sign, but I don'tknow what any of those things
mean.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
But I think it's Scorpio, because then Capricorn,
I think, is December.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
I'm a Gemini and we're considered crazy.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
Oh yeah, I'm a Libra and we do not claim Catherine
Knight.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:25):
I don't blame you.
I wouldn't claim her either.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
No, she's If I was.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
Scorpio, I wouldn't claim her either.
No, she's she is, she is.
So she was born to her mother,her mother Barbara Rohan, and
her father, ken Knight.
Now her mom, barbara, had beenmarried prior to meeting her
father and that relationship.
They had four boys from herfirst marriage, but Barbara just

(15:48):
decided that she wasn't happyin her marriage and just up and
left.
So she started having an affairwith Kent before she left her
marriage and was like, yeah, thegrass is greener, so she just
peaced out and left all of herkids there.
Oh, she left the kids.
She left the kids.
So she not only walked out onher husband, but she walked out

(16:08):
on her four boys.
So I didn't really say what agethey were, but it sounds like
they were two older, a smallbreak, and then two younger ones
, and the two younger ones Iknow were like 18 months and
younger, oh, and so the twoolder boys ended up staying with
their dad, but he couldn't carefor the two younger ones by

(16:29):
himself and work, and so theywent to live with their paternal
aunt, who ends up raising themmost of their childhood.
Okay, soon, after Barbara andKen start dating, they end up
getting pregnant, and it waslike she just abandoned one
family to start over new, whichI will never understand.
No, I can't even imagine Nowthat I'm a mom.

(16:53):
You hear these stories andyou're like how do you leave
your children?
No especially because it soundslike the older two, if I had to
estimate, were like probablylike five and seven.

Speaker 2 (17:02):
Well, and how do you do that?
Being a mom of a boy Like howdo you not?
Just like, not that, like a momof a girl, like I don't love my
daughter because I could walkout on my girl.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
No.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
I absolutely love both of my children but like
boys are just usually likemama's boys, like that's usually
just kind of how it is.
And yeah, how do you just?

Speaker 1 (17:22):
I how do you just up and leave your time?

Speaker 2 (17:25):
You see a woman on a show or like, if you happen to
meet one who has, like, lefttheir kids behind, I'm like
there's something wrong withthat person.
Yeah, agreed, absolutelysomething wrong Agreed.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
So they end up having another son together.
So this one, she has five boys,and then they get pregnant
again and are shocked when shegoes on to deliver twin girls.
So the fraternal twins arenamed Kathy and Joy, and the
couple went on to have anotherson several years later.
So in total, in total Barbarahad eight kids, six boys and two

(18:01):
girls.
Four children in each marriageor each.
Yeah, yeah, oh shit.
So her first husband ends uppassing away pretty suddenly
when the oldest two boys areteenagers, and so they come to
live with Barbara and her newfamily after, like, not having
contact with them.

(18:22):
It's the weirdest situation.
And then she actuallypetitioned to get all four boys
back, but the two younger oneswanted to stay with their aunt
because she had kind of beenlike no harm that they had known
.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
That would literally be like some other lady wants to
take you away from your mom andraise you now.
Yeah, like they don't know herlike.

Speaker 1 (18:43):
Thanks for these, thanks for putting in all this
work.
I just think I'll take themback now.
No, that's not how this works,barbara.
No, that's not how this works.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
That's like mentally not good for your children.
No, and the court agreed withthat.
She obviously doesn't careabout the mental well being of
her children, so she doesn't,and so they're allowed to stay
with the aunt.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
So most of Kathy's life she grew up with six
children in the household andthen the younger brothers did
eventually come to live withtheir mom after their aunt
passed away.
But this was when they were intheir late teens, so they didn't
really she didn't really knowthem as well, but it sounds like
the siblings all became fairlyclose.
Okay, the family lived in atown called Aberdeen, Australia,

(19:28):
which is a very small town.
Like at the time there was like1200 people in the whole town.
Okay, so very, very small town.
It is filled more with, like arough crowd.
It's a big sort of industrialarea and the big place to work
is this it's called an abattoir,which I had never heard of.

(19:50):
That it's a slaughterhouse, butit's an abattoir.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
It's such a fancy name Because.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
I'm Australian.
I work at the abattoir, notsounds like I work at the
slaughterhouse.
Yeah, it sounds like you're waybetter I don't know French,
like fancy establishment.
I know.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
Not just murdering it , not murdering animals, because
I eat it, but I would want towork there.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
just to say that I worked at the abattoir.
Yeah, the abattoir, it justsounds amazing.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
But it's not amazing.

Speaker 1 (20:20):
So at this slaughterhouse they slaughter
about 600 head of cattle a day.
And several pigs.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
Where do you get 600 a day?
I?

Speaker 1 (20:28):
don't know.
It seems like a lot, that's ashit ton of cows, but they
shipped at this time they werelike one of the biggest
slaughterhouses and like theywould just ship meat all over to
the US, to Canada, all overAustralia.
Okay, so, like they were prettybig, had giant cow farms, and
I'm not going to go over like gointo this too much, but in the

(20:51):
book it talks about all the jobsin the slaughterhouse and I had
no clue what went into this,and it's pretty crazy, that's
interesting.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
Yeah, it's just when they walked in there and
something killed them and wentabout their day.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
No, so it's like a whole process because they have
to actually do the killing, soone person does that, and then
they have to bleed them out, andthen they have to gut them,
then they have to skin them,then they have to do all of
these things and then ittrickles down, trickles down,
and so people in this areaessentially just work really

(21:27):
long hours, yeah, and then afterthey get done at the factory or
the abattoir, wherever they'reworking, then they just go out
with friends and drink the nightaway and smoke all their
ciggies and then get up and doit all over again.
Okay, and it's just.
That's the lifestyle in thisarea, okay, but it's also like a

(21:49):
big, extended family, becauseit's so small that everybody
knows everybody, yeah, okay.
So Joy, kathy's twin sister,became the favorite, favorite
sibling and was favored by allof her siblings and even her mom
.
She was the one that peopleseemed to be able to confide in
and she was a little bit more ofa tomboy, but she was also much

(22:11):
more attractive than Kathy.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
Kathy was said to have not been much of a looker.

Speaker 2 (22:16):
No.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
And when you see pictures of her you yeah, you
can kind of see this.
So she has long red hair androsy cheeks.
She was quite tall.
It always describes her as verytall.
From what I could find, she'slike five seven, so it's not
like she's humongous.
It's not like six feet tall, Idon't know if in that area
everyone's like a little shorter.

(22:38):
Yeah, I don't know, but itdescribes her as like she towers
over a lot of the men in herlife.
Oh, but she's not like a hugelady, yeah, okay.
So, um, she has thick likeglasses and cap had anything but
a good childhood.
So her dad, ken, was a ragingand violent alcoholic who ended

(23:02):
up raping Barbara, sometimesmultiple times a day.
What Multiple times a day?
To get raped by your husband.
The girl's mother would pullthem aside and tell them all
about this, but tell themexplicit details.
What About that?
And her sex life?

(23:22):
And just go on to talk abouthow much she hates sex and hates
men in general.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
Why would you do that why?

Speaker 1 (23:30):
Your daughters do not need to hear this.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
Why I am so right.
Why would you do that Like?

Speaker 1 (23:40):
what purpose does that generally?

Speaker 2 (23:41):
people who do get raped, whether it's by your
spouse or not.
Don't really want to talk aboutit, no, cuz it's like a really
horrific act.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
No, and especially talking to your kids about their
dad doing that.
No, no, and it wasn't detailslike mm-hmm.
Uh no, and even when it wasn'tabout the rape it said she would
talk like tell them detailsabout Sexual positions.
She told them how many timesthey had sex on their wedding

(24:09):
night.
Weird like, just weird stuff.
That I feel like even if youhave a really good open
relationship with your mom, likethere's some things that you
shouldn't be talking about, andthis is like one of those?

Speaker 2 (24:21):
Yeah, no.

Speaker 1 (24:22):
Yeah, very odd, okay.
Kath would also later claimthat she had also been raped by
several family members until shewas 11, but this was never
reported and never really proven.
Okay, so I don't know how trueit is.
Kath inherited her father'svery bad temper and with her

(24:43):
upbringing it was a Real badcombination.
She was a fiery redhead whopeople had very mixed feelings
about.
Many people would say that shewas so sweet and had a huge
heart.
She'd help you out in any waythat she could and was loyal to
a fault.
Huh, her sibling said shedidn't ever really start fights

(25:05):
or bully people.
She was always very kind butwas never afraid to stand up for
herself or finish a fightInteresting.
She was strong and would gotoe-to-toe with anyone, no
matter their size, and so inschool the boys would call her
names or say mean things abouther looks and she would just go

(25:26):
off and get into full-blown Fistfights with them.
So a lot of the boys that wentto school with her ended up
being very scared of her.
They're like, yeah, don't sayanything about Kath because
she'll beat the shit out of you.
Yeah, and then other peoplesaid, oh no, that's not true.
She was an absolute, absolutemonster.
She was super vicious, alwaysmean bullying people would start

(25:50):
fights with anybody for noapparent reason and weird there.
So there's two differentversions of her, and Almost
everyone, though, agreed thatKath cussed like a sailor and
had a temper that was hard tocontrol.
It seemed to me, fromeverything that I read and put
together with this case, thatshe definitely had two sites.

Speaker 2 (26:11):
Yeah, she could be very sweet, but if you crossed
her, watch out so it'sinteresting because you think
her siblings would have the mostin-depth look at her
personality and what she waslike, because they like live
with her day in and day out.
Siblings fight worse thananybody, right yeah especially
if you have that many kids inyour house.
Yeah, and so you think theywould be the ones.

(26:31):
That's like no, she's terrible,but they, but it's not a.

Speaker 1 (26:34):
She's nice and kind and even after she does
everything that she does, theystand by her side, really visit
her and talk about how we don'tknow what happened, because
that's not the person that weknow.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
Crazy cuz, I know what she does yeah it's not okay
, it's not good.
It's not good, that's crazy Ididn't know that about her
siblings, though.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
Yeah, wow.
So she struggled in school anddid not get very good grades, so
she left as soon as she legallycould, which in Australia was
at age 15, okay.
So she applied to work at theAbattoir, which was said to be
her dream job, like that's whatshe aspired to do.

(27:17):
She was like really wanting towork here.
Her dad and joy already bothworked here, as well as one of
her brothers.
But initially when she applies,she doesn't get the job, so she
applies again and then that'swhen she is hired.
So, like we talked about thedifferent jobs, it's basically a
man's place.
So, yeah, the men get like thehigher-up positions and they're

(27:41):
the ones that are doing like thekilling and the bleeding out,
and they call them slicers, sothey do all of that work.
And then basically, the womenhave to start at the very bottom
, which is called a, a boner.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
My mom was a boner really in Logan at.
Yeah, at how just you sayingthat?
Because she were.
She told me the war hats thatsaid it on there, but Whatever
whatever the work at a placewhere I have this is boner.
Whatever the place is in Loganthat Factor like a.
This is an avatar, yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:20):
Yeah, so this does not sound like very fun work to
me.
No, and I don't know if it'sdifferent at different places,
but this describes a boner aswhere they would have to like,
basically, because you use everypart that you possibly can,
okay, of the cow, and so theyscrape all the bone marrow out
of the bones, oh, and thenbasically clean up all the other

(28:41):
scraps that are left over afterit gets to the bottom of the
barrel.
Okay, so they're that their jobis essentially like real shitty
work.

Speaker 2 (28:51):
Why do you take the bone marrow like out of the bone
fork?

Speaker 1 (28:54):
because people eat bone marrow.
I know it's so disgusting, andso there's a lot of places that
I don't know how they process it, but they, they, you can like
sell the bone marrow.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
I just assumed it was still in the bone when they got
it, I guess.
So it really is that theyscraped it out and then sold it
like yeah, yeah, sans bone andyou.

Speaker 1 (29:12):
You like bone marrow is used in a lot of like.
They dry it and crush it up andput it in supplements and
things like that, and so theyscrape a lot of that out.
There are some bones that theyleave it in so people can make
like bone broth or whatever itis that they make with that
stuff, but a lot of it isscraped out, which I was glad to

(29:33):
hear that they literally useevery part right animal.
I'm not going into detail in thebook.
If you do.
If you're not, a fan of thistalk.
It gets a lot worse in the book.
So just a heads up.
But so Kathy was no different,but she did not mind the work at
all.
In fact she really enjoyed itand it was just kind of her

(29:56):
thing.
So she ended up being a reallygood worker and was very, very
quickly promoted to a slicer,which was not common for women.
Okay, she was said to Often govisit an older man At the
Aventure that did the actualkilling of the pigs.

(30:16):
Okay, and she was fascinated bythis as well, and so she would
just go talk to him a lot andjust watch him kill the pigs,
ask questions about things.
She tried to learn a whole lotabout her job, which comes in to
play later?

Speaker 2 (30:33):
Yeah, she's kind of so.
Have you seen Boondock Saints?
Yes, so.
Do you remember like at thebeginning of it?
There's, he's working like in ameat.
Uh-huh, there's that big woman.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
She's like that.
Yeah, that's what she's like.
That's what I'm envisioning islike they may have actually like
been like a big woman, likethat.
Yeah yeah and she's not no, butjust this woman's like but she
does, she will beat the shit outof you, yeah, and it's like
such a rough place you have tothink about it because it's
mostly men, right?
So, yeah, men are just likecussing and talking crap about

(31:08):
everything and and they saythings a lot to the women, yeah,
and Kathy does not take it, andso it's.
I mean, part of me is like,yeah, I get it, but she takes it
way too far, right, yeah, andso it's just not probably not
the best environment for someoneof her Personality to be in

(31:28):
yeah, but she loved it and thedeath and dismemberment didn't
bother her at all.
Her Brother, who worked there,then introduced her to a man
named David Kellett, who alsoworked at the avatua, and the
two hit it off pretty quicklyand started dating.
Hmm, and when she was just 18she ended up marrying Kellett

(31:50):
and Apparently Kellett was very,very intoxicated one night and
proposed to her uh-huh, and thendidn't even remember it.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
The next day.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
But Kathy was like oh no, it happened.
And I said yes, this is what'shappening and so basically like
kind of pushes him into gettingmarried.
Do you think you really did?
I do think she made it.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
I might have made it up, I don't know.
She's like he's super drunk.
I bet I can.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
I can do this yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
Yeah, either way, that would be.
So, like, even if it's someoneyou're dating, but like you're
not there yet, right, and youlike, all of a sudden, you like
get drunk one night in the nextday, like you're engaged to be
married and it's like yeah it'snot recommended People, because
I don't think that's how it'ssupposed to work.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
Don't get any ideas from this, you girls that have
been dating someone for a while.
Don't get them drunk and liketell them that they proposed to
you because it's not gonna workout.

Speaker 2 (32:45):
No, no, forcing someone into that is not the
best way to go about it.
No, I'll trap you if I have to.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
No, yeah, and that, and it seems like that should
what she did.
But who knows, who knows, wewere not there, nope.
But so Kathy held holds them tohis proposal and in 1974 the
two got hitched and Kella hadbeen drinking very heavily the
day of their wedding as well.
And so when they, they justdecided to go to the courthouse

(33:16):
to get married, but they pickeda day, everything.
So on the day when the dayarrives, they go to drive to the
courthouse and kill.
It's too drunk drunk to drive.
So Kathy ends up driving themthere on her motorbike and he's
riding back like holding on toher, and I was like this is like

(33:36):
just, I mean, just imagine thisand he's shit.
It's a big scary Female thateveryone's like terrified.
Yeah, just fights and cusses.
And and then this guy who'sshorter than her and like
wrapped around her on hermotorbike To go get married,
yeah, and so she invited one ofher brothers I think it was the

(33:58):
brother that introduced them,okay, and he had one person like
one of his friends there butneither of them Invited their
parents or other siblings, andin fact, kathy had never even
met her in-laws.
Oh, she didn't meet them untiltwo months after their wedding.
Oh, okay, so on their weddingnight, the two consummate their

(34:20):
marriage, like immediately afterthey are married, and
Throughout the night, kathy keptwaking him up because he was so
drunk that they, like, had sex.
He passed out.
She wakes him up for round two.
They have sex.
He passes out again.
Okay, they, she did this.
They had actual sex four times,but this still wasn't enough

(34:44):
for her.
So the last time that he passedout, after the fourth time, she
got pissed.
And the next time that Kellettwoke up, his new bride's hands
were wrapped firmly around hisneck and she was trying to choke
him.
What and it all?
It all stemmed from her momtelling her that they had

(35:08):
consummated their marriage orhad sex on their wedding night
five times, and so she wastrying to beat her mom.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
Okay, I'm okay.
I am the first one to be allabout Some fun playtime at any
moment of your relationship.
I am always down for that right, but, like Four, five times, I
am too old for that.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
I am too.

Speaker 2 (35:33):
I want to stay as yeah like I can't go that long,
like I am bad at a breath andlike not doing much anymore and
like yeah, it's just not gonnabut you got to remember she's 18
too, oh your sex drives prettyhigh.
I think I'm more high now thanolder, but she's 18, so that's a

(35:53):
little bit different.
I could have sex a lot more,yeah, for longer, yeah, even
just several years ago.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
So, right, every year I'm 40, go a little bit
downhill Still down.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
I'm still down for it , but it's just not.
It's not as often.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
Not that many times, yeah, and especially like a
marathon, like that, or fightfive times in one night.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
No, no, especially if it's like you got a break in
between, like your dragon, thisshit on like let's just do it
all one big like Harrah and thenbe done for tonight and go to
bed but can you imagine justgetting married and then waking
up to someone choking youbecause you Fell asleep after
you had sex?

Speaker 1 (36:35):
with them four times, like good lord woman.
So this would be just thebeginning of their tumultuous
relationship.
The two fought often, and abouta year into their marriage,
things were already pretty rocky.

(36:56):
Kelly was about to leave andwanted a divorce, but Kathy got
pregnant, of course, so he stuckaround to see if they could
work it out.
It didn't last long, though,because while she was still
pregnant, things got so bad thathe started having an affair
with another woman and she alsogets pregnant.

(37:17):
Oh no.
So Kathy gave birth to theirdaughter, melissa, in 1976, and
shortly after, kelly ended upleaving her to be with his
mistress, who was still pregnant.
Okay, and she ends up going onto deliver a baby boy.
So this is right after she justdelivered, and he leaves her,

(37:41):
and this enrages Kathy.
Their babies like two monthsold, and so, unfortunately,
though, she kind of takes it outa little bit on the baby.
Oh.
So she ends up carrying hertwo-month-old child down to the
train tracks, and she had herall swaddled up and she just

(38:04):
left her lying in the middle ofthe tracks, knowing that a train
would be coming by soon, andjust walks away.
No, two-months old.
Luckily, a local man saw theinfant on the tracks Ran down to
grab her just a few minutesbefore the train went by.

(38:25):
So they're trying to kind offigure out, like whose kid is
this?
What's happening?
And in the meantime, kathy goesinto town and starts a scene
with the other local town'speople and has an axe, which I
don't know where she got the axe, but she's like wielding an axe
, swinging it around, screamingat people like she just lost her

(38:46):
damn mind.

Speaker 2 (38:49):
Wow, I mean police, postpartum is yes, yes, and that
is actually what people thinkhappened.

Speaker 1 (38:55):
So the police get called and she's taken to the
hospital and they figured thatshe was suffering from a severe
postpartum depression.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
Yeah, even a psychosis.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
Yeah, so in August 1976, so shortly after this,
this event.
So she's like released from thehospital, okay.
And then she goes over to aneighbor's house and she starts
begging for a ride because sheneeds to go to the doctor,
because Melissa is really sick.
And the neighbors likeabsolutely, I'll go grab my car

(39:29):
and I'll pull around to pick youguys up.
Yeah, so she picks up Kathy andshe has her teenagers with her,
she has two teenage kids withher and After they start driving
, all of a sudden Kathy justpulls out a knife and Slices the
16 year old girl in the facewhat?
And basically like holds themat knife point and tells them oh

(39:50):
, we're not going to thehospital, you're taking me to
Kellett's house, her husband'shouse, oh, okay.
So the mom's like okay, likeI'll take you wherever you want.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
Like just put the knife down slicing people.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
I have to get gas.
So they pull in to get gas andjust take off.
But, kathy, this does not stopher.
So she just runs into the gasstation and grabs an even
younger boy, like a little boywho Is less than a teenager I
think he was like six or seven,oh at the gas station and holds

(40:26):
him at knife point, which Idon't know what her plan was
here.
But the police were againcalled and this time she's taken
into a mental facility, yeah,be evaluated, and she ends up
getting admitted there.
So at this point they do a fullassessment on her and she was
diagnosed with borderlinepersonality disorder.
Okay, which, if you remember,we've covered it in another case

(40:49):
, but it's a mental healthcondition that affects sort of
how you see yourself and others,and Most people with borderline
personality have a strong,strong fear of abandonment.
They tend to have very unstableand intense relationships and
they're very impulsive andextremely emotional.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
Okay, so borderline personality, is that Anything
similar to like splitpersonality agree of no, where
you have other people in youknow?
It's different because Iremember like it used to be
called split personality, butthen they call it was a
dissociative identity.
Yeah, they change the name andI don't change it.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
Okay, no, that's.
That's is completely different.
So borderline personality isjust like in split personality
Sometimes you don't know.
Yeah, multiple personality, youdon't know which person it is
right and you don't know aboutyour other identities.
This is not the same.
They have complete, like it'sone person.
They just fly off the handleand are very impulsive.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
To me it's more similar to like by what's that
like when they're in that manicphase?

Speaker 1 (41:58):
Okay, Um, but they're more angry.
So like manic people can tendto get like very happy, yeah,
like bubbly and great and thenthey suddenly have that like
drop and cycle.
That way, yeah, borderlinepersonality is more just like.
It's not so much the cyclic,it's more just like like I'm

(42:21):
fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, flyoff the handle, and then I'm
fine, I'm fine, I'm fine again.

Speaker 2 (42:26):
And it's not like a depressive thing too, Like where
you bipolar generally you havelike either supermanic and
superdepressive or there isdepression with this, but not as
the extreme as bipolar yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
But I would say that it's maybe the closest to that.
Okay, and so Kella and his momend up showing up to visit her,
and when that was nice of him, Iknow and when she gets
discharged, they both are thereto pick her up.
So while she's in the hospital,her parents end up taking

(42:59):
Melissa to care for her.
Yeah, and so when she gets out,of the hospital.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
Why was it her dad take her?

Speaker 1 (43:05):
I don't know.
Okay, I truly don't.
Maybe his girlfriend wouldn'tallow Because he's got another
mistress, yeah, yeah.
Well, by the time that she'sdischarged, the two have kind of
rekindled things and heactually ends it with his
mistress oh my God, okay anddecides he's going to give it a

(43:25):
shot with Kathy again.
So they go to pick up Melissaand they pull up to her parents'
house and, if you remember,barbara is kind of a man hater,
oh yeah.
And she ends up blamingeverything that happened with
her daughter on Kelet, becausehe cheated on her, he had a

(43:46):
mistress, he got another womanpregnant, like I mean, there's
some shit that went down, yeah,but she blames it all on him.
And so, as soon as they pull up, kathy runs into the house to
grab Melissa and Barbara booksit to the car and starts
attacking Kelet oh no, punchinghim, scratching him, and his mom

(44:07):
is like this is like the firsttime she's actually really like
been around them, oh no, and islike what is happening, like
she's just in shock.
And so Kathy looks out thewindow and sees her mom
attacking Kelet and she's, likewe said, very loyal to a fault,
right, and if that's her man,she's not taking anybody's shit.

(44:31):
So she runs out and cold cocksher mom, punches her and knocks
her down to the ground and thenyells at her to never touch
David again.
And then she grabs Melissa,gets in the car and they drive
home Like they're just some bighappy family.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
I was just thinking and just like that they're
together.
How bad was his relationshipwith his mistress, that he
wanted to go pick up his crazywife out of the mental hospital,
that just put your baby on atrain track and has, like,
choked you on your wedding night, and I'm sure a plethora of
other things.
Yeah, and that's what you wantto go back to.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
Well, and in my mind I have to think like okay, maybe
he was just worried about thechild, maybe he's like you know
I owe it to her to give thisanother shot, Because sometimes
you love broken people yeah.
I and I and I'm sure he feltlike some responsibility for
that Right Like this happenedright after I left her on
postpartum to like some shitthings.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
If she ever uses that against him to like post this
postpartum yeah it's.
You know which is very?
I mean, I had postpartum andlike it is a very serious thing.
It's very serious.
I didn't have like I didn'tharm myself for my child, but I
definitely had this pretty bad,and so I am very.
I know it's very serious, but Icould see her also using that
as like.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
Oh absolutely, and I'm sure that she made him feel
guilty as shit and hung thisover his head for a real long
time.
Oh, can you imagine?
And she'll take this on to allof her other relationships.

Speaker 2 (46:04):
I just can't even imagine, like just trying to
picture the whole scene.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
Like.
Can you imagine being the momand being like?
I just picked my daughter a lotup from the mental house, the
baby.
What is happening this?

Speaker 2 (46:17):
woman comes running out and attacks your son.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
Son, can we rethink our life choices?

Speaker 2 (46:22):
right now, please Like.
Well, I know where she gets it.
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
She was a bad combination of her mom and dad,
I think, because she got alittle bit of the manipulation
and manhating from her mom andthen the temper of her dad.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
Well, it's like as a parent, don't you ever look at
your kids and you're like man.
They got all the best parts ofme.
Like they're so you know, likeall of the things I wish I could
have been.
And like my kids, they havethat and you're like so proud of
them.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
And then like she's like, she's the one.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
She's the one who's like you got all the shit parts
girl.
All the shit parts.
I mean there's got to be oneout of the eight kids Right Got
all of that?

Speaker 1 (46:58):
Yeah, she's it.
We were just talking about this, right?
Yeah, there's always one andshe's it.
So things went well for a while, but then they of course got
worse again.
Kathy had a really short fuseand would end up hitting and
beating on Kelet anytime thecouple got in a fight.
She even had Kelet like mountsome of her knives from the

(47:21):
Abattoir onto a board and putthem in her bedroom and said
that she just liked to look atthem, but he said he was very
fearful that she wouldeventually use them.
Honey, I got a.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
DIY home project.
It's not funny, but it's likeso like.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
So off the wall, that can you?

Speaker 2 (47:42):
even imagine.
No, this poor guy, he's likesure I'll do it.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
He's like terrified which knives do you want hung up
in our bedroom?

Speaker 2 (47:50):
Which ones are going to be used to murder me Like?

Speaker 1 (47:52):
that's terrifying, right, it's nuts.
So Kathy then ended up goingoutside the marriage as well,
because things were not good,yeah, and she could not really
forget what he had done to her.
And so she starts having anaffair and she's caught by Kelet
, which caused a lot of problems.

(48:14):
But then the couple makes upagain and they end up having a
bandaid baby.

Speaker 2 (48:20):
Oh no.

Speaker 1 (48:22):
Natasha, their second daughter, is born on March 6th
1980.
And the family ends up moving.
So during this time they hadmoved a couple times after she
got out of the hospital and sothey moved to another smaller
town.
It's all around that Aberdeenarea.
But they moved to another smalltown hoping it would be a fresh

(48:44):
start and would just help theirmarriage.
It didn't.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
No because she's still there.
It didn't work.
You guys are both still there.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
So, spoiler alert, it didn't happen.
So one time Kelet came homefrom playing darts and he was 15
minutes later than he toldKathy he was going to be and she
was waiting for him.
And as soon as he walkedthrough the door she hit him so
hard in the head with a fryingpan that it knocked him out cold

(49:14):
.
Yeah, it was like a cast ironpan Knocked him out cold and he
had to stay in the hospital forfour days with a head injury.

Speaker 2 (49:23):
That's like a cartoon .
Four days I mean.

Speaker 1 (49:27):
Cast iron pans are heavy and he didn't even have a
chance to say anything Like hewalked through the door and she
just popped right in the head.

Speaker 2 (49:40):
I mean that like really could have just killed
him in one shot, yeah, and hejust didn't even have like that
thought of like.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
I would love to do this.
I would even cause severe braindamage.

Speaker 2 (49:49):
I'm not going to because that would be crazy.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
Yeah, she does not have that thought process.
No, that Wow.
Another time Kathy ends uppulling a knife not the one from
their bedrooms, but a differentone on Kelet, and held the
knife to his throat, convincedthat he was having another
affair.
And all Kathy said was see howeasy it is.
Oh, she's scary.

(50:16):
She's so scary Like I couldkill you right now.
See how easy it would be.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
Oh my God, that's it.

Speaker 1 (50:23):
That's all she said, nope.
So he swore to her that he wasnot cheating.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:29):
But she remained suspicious, which he still says
to this day that only a fair hehad was the first one that she
knew about.
Wow, a couple of weeks later,when Kelet got home from work,
kathy was like you know what?
You've had a long week, it'sbeen stressful.
Why don't you go play darts?
She knew that.
That was like what calmed himdown.
Okay, and sometimes she'sreally nice, right, you got to

(50:52):
remember that.
Yeah, sometimes she's reallynice.
People don't stay in shitrelationships if there's no good
to balance it out, right Forsure?

Speaker 2 (50:59):
Typically yes.

Speaker 1 (51:03):
So I talk about a lot of the bad things that she does
, but you got to remember shedoes nice things too.
Yeah, so he gets home and she'svery nice and is you know, just
go play darts, go get out ofthe house with your friends.
So he's like really Okay.
So he leaves.
As soon as he gets to the barthere's a phone call for him and
it's Kathy and she says youbetter get home now because I'm

(51:25):
burning all of your clothes.
Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
She is something, she's too much.

Speaker 1 (51:34):
She's way too much.
Oh my God, she's like too muchplus a thousand, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (51:40):
Like I don't even the mind games that.
Ptsd he's going to, he has tohave after this relationship of
like, are you sure I can go?
Like you're not going to burnmy clothes right Like as soon as
I leave?

Speaker 1 (51:53):
Yeah.
So he's like, no, this isn'thappening.
So he hangs up, goes back home.
She had burnt every piece ofclothing that he owned other
than what he was wearing.
Wow, Burned them to a crisp.

Speaker 2 (52:11):
Wow, can you imagine your mom behaving now?

Speaker 1 (52:16):
No, like you have two kids, like you are literally
watching your mom tell your dadto go to the bar.

Speaker 2 (52:23):
go get out with your friends, Fine.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
Please, you need a boys night.
She burns all of your dad'sclothes and then it's like that
dick and just wow, lighter fluidand a match no Done.
No, I cannot imagine Like noneof this is even fathomable to me
no, the way she treats people.

(52:47):
So in 1983, kathy attacked himagain and hit him with a
sharpening steel, which is likewhat you sharpen knives with.
Okay, yeah, like a big metal.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
Yeah, block.

Speaker 1 (52:58):
Block and he had to be hospitalized again.
Wow, and he said that he neverreported any of this abuse.
Because abuse?
Because he was so worried aboutthe girls and what would happen
to them.
So Sad.
Shortly after this, he camehome and the house was just
empty.
Kathy had moved out and takeneverything, Every piece of

(53:23):
furniture, like just literallyleft an empty house and she was.
She was done so.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
Kelly was like, thank God, right, yeah, I think at
that point I'd be like that'scompletely fine.
He did not fight for her, meand my one outfit that I have.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
He's out.
I'm going to go buy someclothes, yeah, yeah.
So she took everything andmoved in with her parents again
and then ends up divorcing Kellyin 1984 after eight years of
marriage.
Wow, can you imagine like itliterally started your honeymoon
with her, choking you, yeah,and then all the shit that you

(53:59):
endured for eight years, yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
No, I can't.
No, that's, it's bad.
He needed some serious traumatherapy after that.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
So she started working in Aberdeen again as a
slicer and eventually she gets aplace for her and her girls and
she started dating.
But nothing really stuckbecause at this point she was
actually focused on her kids andshe was being very picky with
who she was dating.
Now that she was a single mom,Her daughters and siblings said

(54:29):
she ended up being a really,really good mom.
Despite the issues that she hadearly on and all of her temper
issues.
Okay, she was very protectiveand loving and she's they said
that she was always just likevery supportive of them and
never like abusive to the kids,which is something Right.
She ended up losing her job atthe Abattoir due to a back

(54:52):
injury that she got and had tomove closer to town and actually
purchased a little house, andthis is where she ended up
meeting a man named DavidSaunders in 1986.
And so the two started datingand things were really good with
them for a while as well.
But then Kathy's temper startedto flare once again.

(55:14):
The littlest things started toset Kathy off and when her
temper would flare she wouldagain become very violent and
abusive towards David, hitting,pushing and kicking him.
They would get into physicalaltercations often and Kathy
would always kick David out ofthe house because she kind of
had her own house, oh yeah.

(55:35):
And then he has his own place,which they refer to as a flat.
He has a flat that he would gostay there for a couple of days
just to let her cool down andget out of her hair and like
deescalate.
And then, every time, though,kathy would be knocking at his
door telling him like, begginghim to come back, and she would

(55:56):
always be able to lure him backwith sex and promise of change.
Okay, kathy was a very, verysexual person, as we learned
earlier, and she used this as aweapon to get men and to get
them to forgive her.
All right, she would have sexwith her partners most of the
time, every day, and sometimesseveral times a day, which made

(56:19):
it very hard to resist for a man.
Yeah, so things would be goodfor a time, and then the fights
would start again, and it was apretty vicious cycle.
And then Kat's mom passed awayright before Christmas in 1986,
and Kat did not do well withthis at all.
Okay, although the two hadfought and had kind of a

(56:41):
tumultuous relationship, yeah,they were very, very close, and,
as she had gotten older, theyhad developed a really good
relationship as adults, andKathy had really, really loved
her mom.
She felt like she was one ofthe people that she could really
count on, and she struggledmore than anyone thought she
would with her death.
Okay, this led to an even moreemotional Kathy, if that's

(57:04):
possible, which is terrifyingAbsolutely.
In May of 1987, they had gotteninto another huge fight and
David had been at his apartmentand Kathy comes knocking at the
door begging him to come home.
So he agrees and he's like allright, I'll be there in a little
bit.
He's packing his things and assoon as he walks through the

(57:26):
door, kathy attacks him for noreason and starts pushing and
hitting him, accusing him ofhaving an affair.
Okay, so it always stems backto somebody cheating on her.
Okay, like she's very, veryself-conscious about this yeah.
And he claims that he pushed herback and that's when she

(57:46):
started screaming at him thatshe was pregnant and started
claiming that he had kicked herin the stomach with still toe
boots.
Oh, a story that she would tellseveral times over the years.
David claims this neverhappened.
He's like I never kicked her.
I did push her to get off of me, but he claims that their

(58:08):
entire relationship.
He never initiated the violence, but he does admit that he
would push or hit her back todefend himself or get her off of
him.
Wow, this fight escalated andafter she yelled at him for
kicking her in the stomach, sheflew into even more of a rage
and grabbed one of her carvingknives oh no and walked into the

(58:31):
backyard.
David had just gotten afull-bread dingo puppy that he
absolutely adored.
Oh no, kathy walks into thebackyard, grabbed the
eight-week-old puppy and slitits throat, killing it in cold
blood right in front of David.

Speaker 2 (58:49):
Okay, you have a severe anger problem.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
You're a monster.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
Yeah, that is not like A monster.
That is not normal, like I'mpissed off at you behavior.
No, to kill a puppy.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
No, that's terrible oh.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
It's terrible.
You're a little baby.

Speaker 1 (59:07):
I know.
She then walked back into thehouse and said that's what I
think of you.
Oh okay, crazy pants, all right.
How do you stay with someonelike this?
I mean that this is extreme.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
That would absolutely be my-.
I would be so terrified of thatperson.
Yeah, After that like-.

Speaker 1 (59:30):
I would be terrified of all the-.
So after this happens, shepicks up the phone and she calls
the police and she reports thatDavid had abused her and kicked
her in the stomach and andthat's why she killed the pup

(59:52):
and the cops did nothing.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
I still don't know that that warrant's killing a
puppy.
No Like Even if he did Call mewrong there but like-.
That puppy didn't do anythingto you.
No, I don't I still don't thinkthat warrants that you kill a
puppy.
No, or anything.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
Like no, but in her mind it's always like this
revenge, right, yeah, Likesomebody does something to her
and she has to get her revengeon them.
She always has to have the lastword and like one up anything
bad that has been done to her.
So David went back home afterthat, like went back to his

(01:00:33):
apartment, and later Kathy goesover to his house and vandalizes
his car the same night.
Oh okay, and this was not thefirst time that the couple had
called the police During theirtime, they both took out what
are called AVOs, which standsfor Apprehended Violence Order.
And this is basically like aprotective order, where there's

(01:00:56):
different ones, but they eachhave specific conditions
associated with them, and thatcould be including from like
restraining from any contact,like they have to be within so
many they can't be within somany feet of you, they can't
call you, they have to refrainfrom any form of threat or
intimidation.
So it is just like a protectiveorder.

(01:01:18):
It's like a protective order,but there's different levels.
So like if you get one, likesometimes you can still have
contact with that person, butthey can't threaten you.
It's like a weird thing.
So they're not like all one,like they're not all alike, and
then if you violate it you canget fines or imprisonment.

(01:01:38):
But we all know how well thesework, right Like they don't work
.
So somehow David goes back toher again, even after she killed
his puppy.
Wow, she must have likeplatinum vagina people.
I don't understand something.
Yes, she's having sex with you,but no sex.
Is this good?

(01:01:59):
No, I mean they say crazyperson sex is like some of the
best sex you can have.

Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
It's not worth this.
There's no sex.
That's that good that, likethey can kill your puppy and
you're like that's okay andyou're like okay.

Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
No biggie, no.
So a few months after they getback together they get into
another big fight after pickingup one of David's friends from
the airport and the his friendis like in the back seat and she
just starts beating the shitout of David in the car and his
friend has to like restrain herand so when she got home she

(01:02:37):
ends up taking a bunch of pillsand tried to kill herself, oh my
God.
And so she's taken to thehospital and later admitted
again to another mental facilityand get this.
She was really pissed becausehe had kicked her in the stomach
because she was pregnant.
She wasn't pregnant.
Yeah, oh, I'm sure she claimedto be pregnant and, like, thrown

(01:02:57):
this big fit.
She wasn't pregnant.
But she did actually getpregnant later that same year,
in 1987, and gave birth toanother little girl, which they
named Sarah In June of 1988.
Okay, so the cycle continues andit's just escalating.
With every fight David wouldshow up to work with cuts and

(01:03:21):
bruises all over his face andeveryone at work Knew that the
relationship was abusive.
Again, david claims he neverstarts it, but one of Kath's
daughters would later say thathe beat on her often.
So they say it was two-sided.
Okay, and it wasn't just himLike protecting himself.

(01:03:44):
Okay.
So one day David's like okay,kathy needs a break, she's
overwhelmed.
So she, he takes all of thegirls swimming and just gives
her like a day to just beherself, uh-huh, and have some
me time, which is really nice,yeah.
So he takes them swimming andthen he drops them off back at
home and then he decides to goout and grab a couple of beers

(01:04:04):
with friends, and so when hegets done with that, he walks in
the door and she slams him inthe head again, but this time
it's with an iron.
Oh, geez, and he falls to theground and she stands over him
and just beats the shit out ofhim with an iron.
Wow, because she was upset,because she had wanted him to
come home and do something withher and he didn't.

(01:04:27):
He went out to the bar.
Okay, so he leaves, and he didleave for a longer period this
time, but Kath was able to coaxhim to come back.
I'm using sex again as a makeuptechnique.
Wow, at the end of 1988,another fight escalated and

(01:04:48):
Kathy grabbed a pair of scissorsand Stabbed him in the stomach.
Oh, with a pair of scissors.
Oh no, I Can't even he, theywere stuck in there and he
didn't want to go to thehospital.
So he had to go to a friend'shouse who had to help him pull

(01:05:09):
out no scissors from his stomach, nope, no.
And luckily nothing wasseriously damaged and he didn't
report this because again he wasscared that of what was gonna
happen to the children.
She stabbed you in the stomachright Like I would be scared of
what's gonna happen to the kidsif you stay there.

(01:05:31):
Yeah, yeah, you're gonna bemurdered.
Understand the thought process.

Speaker 2 (01:05:38):
She has hit you over the head with a cast iron frying
pan.
She has beat you with an iron.
She has burned all of yourclothes.
She's killed your puppy.
She stabbed you in the stomachWe've talked about.
I mean, it's the same, I guess,like DV cycle, yep, whether
it's a man or woman, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:05:56):
We've talked about the cycle and it's like harder
than you think to get away,especially when you have kids.

Speaker 2 (01:06:04):
So I mean.
I guess I mean I guess it is Ijust always think of, like men
is like being the Stronger oneright, like less likely to I
don't know.
Put up with that crap, yeah,and like you can leave and she's
not gonna.

Speaker 1 (01:06:20):
Yeah, but she's very very.
Impulative, yeah.
And when things are good,they're so good, yeah.
And then it's just like drop ofa hat and she turns into this
violent maniac.

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
So scary, it's terrifying, and then you are
kind of brainwashed a little bitas the victim in in all of this
.

Speaker 1 (01:06:40):
Yeah, so sad which we haven't really talked about, a
lot of like male victims, no.

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
DV but this.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
These men are victims , oh for sure, like this is
insane, that's scary, it'sterrifying.
So in 1989, when she finallyreceived a settlement for her
back injury if you remember, shegot injured at work and So- she
couldn't work anymore.
So she gets this settlement forher back and so she ends up

(01:07:09):
paying off her house, which gaveher more financial freedom, and
so she didn't really feel likeshe needed a man to kind of help
with bills as much Right more.
She ends up decorating her houseIn tire house they said even
the rafters were covered withthings after she pays it off and
she decorates it with animalskins, horns, skulls, of course,

(01:07:31):
knives and old like metalanimal traps.
She also owned mostly horrormovies and experts later said
that this could have beenconsidered Necromania or an
obsession with death, becauseeverything around her was death
related.
Yeah, but to me it just seemskind of normal, like coming from

(01:07:52):
a small town where people arehunters.
Well, a lot of people have likeAnimal heads and skins and like
swords and knives and bows andlike that's how they decorate
their house, and I don't thinkany of this seems too weird.

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
No, and there's plenty of people who own mostly
horror movies and they have like, maybe you know, weird like,
like horror memorabilia and thatkind of stuff and they're not
and they're not crazy murderous.

Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
Yeah, so a psychiatrist actually did later
go on to say that most peoplewho have these things in their
house and like watch horrormovies and it's like their
favorite genre and or they dothings like us where we're like
obsessed with true crime, yeah,they have like a normal reaction
.
Yeah, but for some people whenthey Get this in their mind and

(01:08:42):
they're they just have thatthing in their brain, it became
it basically fuels like violentFantasies and they get fixated
on right gruesome scenes in themovies and then they like try
and figure out how they can playthat out in their own lives.

Speaker 2 (01:08:58):
Yeah, and those people?

Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
I think they, their minds were already kind of
broken, and then this stuffthat's not caused by watching
horror movies it was alreadythere, and then that's what he
says to me, says this is it'sjust like they've gone back and
forth with violent video gamesright.
Like, does that make people gooff the rails and shoot people?

(01:09:19):
No, it does not.
No, but you know anyways.
So David's dad then passed awayof cancer and he was really
close to his dad, so he wasdevastated and his dad ends up
leaving him a bunch of clothesand in the book they just call
him balls, like left him someballs.

(01:09:40):
But from what?
The way they just I know theway they describe leave them, my
balls, the way they describe it.
They don't actually say it, soI don't know.
Maybe our Australian listenerscan let us know.
If there's like a game, itsounds kind of like croquet,
like a croquet set.
Okay, because he said it sayslater that they go, they take

(01:10:04):
this, the balls that His dadleft him, and they like to go to
the park and play this gamewhere they're like hitting it
with a stick, oh, okay.
So to me it seems like Dad'sballs, but yeah, I don't know
exactly what it was, but anyways.
So they get to the park andDavid is playing whatever game

(01:10:25):
this is, and Kathy just has herlittle chair on the side and is
watching and cheering on her manand From the outside there were
several people there and saidit just looked like they were
having such a fun day together,like a really good day-date.
They were both smiling, laughing.
So David's playing his game andthen all of a sudden, kathy
just like gets up and suddenlyleaves, and Before the game was

(01:10:49):
over.
And so David like finishes thisgame up and Goes home.
And she was livid at somethinghe says even to this day.
He has no idea what set her offor why she was upset, but she
had locked him out of the house.
And so he's like no, I livehere too, and so, yeah, which
really he has his own place, butwhatever.

(01:11:11):
So he kind of busts in the doorand Goes inside the house, and
so she's like, oh hell, no.
So she calls his mom.
She picks up the phone andcalls his mom and is like come
get your son right now, and thenhangs up.
And as soon as she hangs up thephone she grabs a knife and
Cuts his face with the knife.

(01:11:32):
Stop, she has this pattern it'slike let me slice you, let me
hit you over the head withsomething like your face.
Yeah, kathy, stop.
So by the time his mom getsthere to pick him up, he's
already like covered in bloodfrom this, yeah, yeah.
And so his mom gets, takes himhome and get some cleaned up,

(01:11:53):
and Shortly after, though,kathy's like no, I'm really
sorry, I don't know whathappened.
We had such a good day together.
They have sex, he's.
She's like just come home, Justcome home, I'll be there.
So, yet again, he comes homeand he walks into their house
and went to change his clothes,because he has just has his

(01:12:14):
clothes that he had on Him, yeah, and they're all bloody.
So he goes to change hisclothes and he's his clothes are
gone.
And he's like where are myclothes?
And she's like what clothes?

Speaker 2 (01:12:25):
Oh my god, oh, I can't, I cannot with her, I
cannot.
What clothes, what?

Speaker 1 (01:12:34):
is happening in her mind.
Listen to this.
This bitch cut up, cut up intopieces Every article of clothing
he had, including the clotheshis dead father had just left.

Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
She is terrible she's terrible.
This is his second wardrobe.
She's done this too right, orwas that?

Speaker 1 (01:12:56):
the other.
That was the first one, okay,that was the first one, so the
first husband was she burned allthose clothes, burned all of
his clothes and hit him with thecast iron and did another head
injury that he was hospitalizedthis one.
She hit with the iron andKilled this puppy and stab kill
this puppy.
Oh no, the iron was the otherguy too, I think.
Now I can't remember.

(01:13:16):
But yes, kill this puppy,stabbed him in the stomach and
is now cut up his entirewardrobe into little pieces,
putting his down stuff,including his Everything his
dead father had just left him.
That's awful.
You cannot get any of that back.
No, like that is the mosthorrific Thing yeah, like how

(01:13:40):
devastating and he's stillgrieving the loss of his dad.
Yeah, and she does somethinglike that, Wow.
And and he still has no cluewhy they were literally playing
this ballgame at the park Havingfun laughing she was like
cheering him on Having a greatday together in sunny Australia

(01:14:05):
and then she just like lost it.
Wow, for no reason, I can't.

Speaker 2 (01:14:12):
Yeah, there's something, not even imagine,
when they diagnosed her withborderline personality, did they
give her medication?

Speaker 1 (01:14:21):
She was on medication , obviously not a combination
that was working well for her.

Speaker 2 (01:14:27):
Yeah, okay, yeah wow.

Speaker 1 (01:14:32):
So that was finally the last straw for David and he
actually created a more of aplan this time and he moved to
Newcastle, which is a biggercity, okay, because he knew it
would be difficult to find him.
So he ended up quitting his joblike he quit his job and he

(01:14:56):
moved Like ran away, wow.
But of course they have adaughter together, they have
little Sarah, and so he justleaves her there, like all these
guys are terrified of her andthey just leave their children
with her, which I don'tunderstand and I guess cuz she
has never been mean to the kids.

(01:15:17):
Yeah, but still like the kidsare witnessing all of this crazy
shit which is Detrimental tothem and if you don't have a
spouse to abuse, I Would beafraid that it was gonna go
going to be the kid turn intothe kids.
Yeah, luckily it's never that,but but she does a lot of mental
abuse to somebody for sure.

(01:15:37):
I mean just witnessing thatstuff.

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
Yeah, it's.

Speaker 1 (01:15:41):
It gets real bad.
So, kathy, it does not give upeasily and she ends up searching
for him.
Wow, like so scary Mm-hmm See.
She looks far and wide but shecannot find him, she can't
locate him.
He has.
He has to cut off contact withSarah because he doesn't want

(01:16:01):
her to find him.
So to get revenge on him.
Kathy tells their daughter thather dad had died.
What, okay?
Tells her that her dad's dead.
Poor Sarah Like and I thinkshe's pretty young at this time,

(01:16:23):
yeah, like, but still she maynot have even understood.
But then she has her two otherolder daughters that are
definitely old enough tounderstand and she just told all
of them that he had died, likesomeone that had just been in
their life for a long time, likeyears, and she's like yeah,
your dad's dead.
Oh, okay, it's just cruel, likethe way that she does it.

(01:16:47):
She's just very cruel, cruelperson.

Speaker 2 (01:16:50):
A lot of mental gymnastics there, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16:55):
She was, like I said, described as a very loving and
protective mom, but to me itseems like she just doesn't give
a shit about anybody and justmanipulates her child's emotions
, I think people have a hardtime admitting fault of their
parents sometimes.

Speaker 2 (01:17:15):
Yeah, I think I'm learning a little bit about that
with my own life and stuff andit's hard because you love your
parents.
It's true.
And you know, you see the goodin them and all that stuff, and
I think it's hard to maybe admitas a child that, like your mom
was bad, shit, crazy, yeah, andshe did some stuff that was like

(01:17:36):
definitely not okay, not okay,and she wasn't a good mom to you
, no, so no, I hope that theyrealize that now.

Speaker 1 (01:17:44):
But you can still love your mom and still like see
the good in her, but likeeverybody has good traits and
bad traits and everybody hasshitty things in their childhood
and good things in theirchildhood and you can hold on to
those good things.
But it's okay to also admit thatthere were things that should
not have happened to you, yeah,especially things like this,

(01:18:06):
like it is okay to say that yourmom was a shit mom, yeah, and
you know, yeah, that's okay,it's okay, that's so sad, it's
really sad.
Her first husband, kelet, alsosaid that after he left he had
to go to another town to getaway from her also, they all had

(01:18:26):
to run away.
They all had to run away and hegets hired as a truck driver and
he would send letters and giftsto his girls often.
He really loved his kids,especially on their birthdays or
holidays.
He was known to send these biglike bouquets of flowers and
would try and call the house,but Kathy would always get there
first, wouldn't let him speakto them, would throw out all of

(01:18:50):
the things that he had sent tothe girls and then just told the
girls that nope, sorry, hedidn't send anything, he doesn't
care about you anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:18:59):
Yeah, yep, okay, yep.
She's like putting the nail inthe coffin, like she is not okay
.

Speaker 1 (01:19:05):
No, that's not okay at all.
And the girls end up notfinding out that yeah, not
finding out that this was trueuntil they were Melissa was 16.
So the other one would havebeen close to 13.
Yeah, when they finallyreconnected with their dad.
So they didn't see him foryears.
So after David goes AWOL andKathy can't find him, she moves

(01:19:30):
on to another man named JohnChillingworth.
Now these two had known eachother since Kathy had started
working in the Abattoir when shewas 16.
But John had moved away and hadjust returned 20 years later.
So Kathy was 36 and John was 43.
And they started dating, but itwas more of like a casual thing

(01:19:50):
.
She picked him up at a bar andthey slept together like a
drunken night and theneventually they just started
getting together a few times aweek to hang out and they'd have
sex and party and then theywould just kind of go about
their business.
Yeah, she never really wantedJohn to move in and didn't

(01:20:11):
really want to get serious.
She was just looking for moreof a fling, okay, but John was
wanting something more seriouswith her.
John had heard rumors aboutKathy from his friends and they
had warned him all about her andher temper and all the shit
that she had pulled and how shereally treats her men.

(01:20:33):
But that didn't stop him.
He seemed more into her thanshe was into him and soon he
thought that he was really,really in love.
Two months into theirrelationship or situation ship.
Kathy got pregnant with a littleboy and John was thrilled

(01:20:53):
because he was not a father andso he was like really, really
excited to finally be a dad.
Yeah, but this relationship wasno different, with the fighting
and the two fought.
Often Her ex, david Saunders,ended up coming back into town
and David or and Kathy had anaffair with him.
Oh geez, david.

Speaker 2 (01:21:15):
I know, David oh.

Speaker 1 (01:21:20):
David.
She told John all about it,like she didn't try and hide it.
She came in and was like, yeah,so David came into town and we
had sex, and so she's like Ithink we need to just break up
like she wasn't into thissituation it seems like.
But John begged her not toleave.
Wow, which was the opposite ofany other man that she's been

(01:21:42):
with.
She was typically the one thatwas begging them not to leave
her.
Yeah, so this was kind ofattractive to her, but kind of
not at the same time.
Okay, yeah, her girls wereolder now.
Melissa was 14 and she did notget along with John.
Once John backhanded Melissafor back talking her mom, and

(01:22:04):
this pissed Kathy off so much.
Yeah, so that night while Johnslept, she broke his dentures
into tiny pieces.
Yeah, he had dentures at 40.
What was he?

Speaker 2 (01:22:19):
43 or 46?
.

Speaker 1 (01:22:21):
Yeah, and he had two pairs of dentures and she broke
both of them so he had no teeth.
And then he, at one point shealso smashed his glasses so he
couldn't see and he had no teeth, so much.

Speaker 2 (01:22:34):
Oh, terrible.
Okay, First of all, I mightbreak his dentures because, like
, don't put your hands on my kid, like that's my job, right, you
can say, like, you can saysomething I'm okay with, like
hey.

Speaker 1 (01:22:45):
I want you to talk to your mom, but you're not gonna
put your hands on my kid.

Speaker 2 (01:22:49):
Like that's my decision.
If I'm gonna, if anyone's gonnahit my kid, it's gonna be the
one that brought her into thisworld, right.

Speaker 1 (01:22:54):
Or helped make her, or whatever.
I agree with that completely so.

Speaker 2 (01:22:58):
I might break his dentures for that, but like I
mean, a girl's got to see like Ineed my glasses.
I can't just be going placeswithout my glasses.

Speaker 1 (01:23:09):
So I'm totally blind and I don't have extra ones, and
if my glasses got broke I wouldbe so screwed.

Speaker 2 (01:23:14):
Yeah, I don't have extra.
I have one pair of glasses, Ihave my sunglasses.
I couldn't even.

Speaker 1 (01:23:18):
I have to Uber to the eye doctor because I can't even
see it.
So I'm like Mr Magoo people.

Speaker 2 (01:23:26):
Yeah, you are, you are.
I can't.
My eyes are like getting so badthough Like the older I get
especially.
And yeah, like you have noteeth.

Speaker 1 (01:23:37):
It's not funny, you guys, but it's funny, like it's
just.
It's not funny, but it's likecomical, because it's yeah, it's
so over the top, like this is areal life person.
She just tries.
She's like oh, you know whatPhysical abuse isn't quite
enough, Now I'm going to starthitting people where it really
hurts.
Yeah, I'm going to cut uppeople's clothes.

Speaker 2 (01:23:58):
And I'm definitely does the mental.
Yeah, it's like abuse.

Speaker 1 (01:24:02):
And it's just escalating right.
It started initially just likeas physical stuff, and then it's
just like now.
It's like trying to hit peoplewhere it really hurts.
I'm just like, mental abuse islike we sometimes be worse than
like the physical.

Speaker 2 (01:24:16):
Yeah, because like physical I mean it's terrible,
it's awful.

Speaker 1 (01:24:19):
It is awful.

Speaker 2 (01:24:20):
But like the mental, there's not a good type of abuse
.
No, like mental I feel, likelike your physical.
I guess there is a mental partto the physical abuse to.
But whatever mental part is islike that's what lasts the
longest, like it messes you upin like all sorts of different
ways.
Bruises don't ever really healright, like they leave a
definite like mental mark on youyeah.

Speaker 1 (01:24:42):
But this is like another level.
It's like mindfuckery at itsfinest.
So bad, yeah.
It's like like it really isinsane.
It's nuts.
I just I can't even imaginelike my heart goes out to all of
these men who were especiallybecause men don't speak up

(01:25:03):
against like abuse, right?

Speaker 2 (01:25:05):
You know?
Like I said with the other guy,rough small town right.

Speaker 1 (01:25:09):
So, people are supposed to be like these strong
manly men.
They don't have like femininemen in this area.
No it's not, and not sayingthat that's like.
It's like I'm not saying thatmen who are feminine get abused
more, no, or speak out more, butin this environment it's

(01:25:30):
definitely more like they don'ttalk about any of this because
that's just not what you do inthis area.
I think it's really dependenton where you are in your support
system, right Well?

Speaker 2 (01:25:41):
in the timeframe too.
Like, yeah, nowadays people aregetting more open with, like
mental health and, like you know, abuse and, like you know,
trying to like kind of equalizeeverything for everybody, right,
which can be good in a lot ofaspects, but back like in the
90s and 80s, and all that timelike men didn't talk about, like

(01:26:02):
people would make fun of you ifyou were saying that your
girlfriend or wife was beatingyou up.
They'd be like okay, well, youcan't handle that.
Like what is happening, Like itwould not be like your
girlfriend's, stronger than you,yeah like it would be this
whole thing.
Are you not man enough?

Speaker 1 (01:26:17):
And really it's like scary, it's terrifying, whether
you're a man or a woman likethis is a person that's supposed
to love you.
This has nothing to do withbeing man enough or she's just
next level.

Speaker 2 (01:26:29):
I mean you literally don't like.
What am I going to do that'sgoing to set her off, that's
going to make her do somethingso outlandish that you probably
can't even think of what itwould be Right.
And you don't know, like Davidsaid, like I don't even know why
, to this day, that she was madand flipped out and cut up all
my clothes and sliced my face.

(01:26:52):
It's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:26:54):
It's crazy.
So things were very off and onin this relationship, but it
wasn't as physically violent asprevious relationships.
She was just more of the mentalabuse of stuff like we just
kind of talked about.
She would go on to tell himthat the baby wasn't his.

(01:27:16):
She would say nasty thingsabout his family.

Speaker 2 (01:27:22):
This is the little boy right that they had, or is
she pregnant again?
This is a little boy.

Speaker 1 (01:27:27):
Yeah Well, they haven't had him yet.

Speaker 2 (01:27:31):
So she's still pregnant.

Speaker 1 (01:27:32):
She's like this kid's not even yours.
I don't even know why you'resticking around.
I had a affair with so-and-so.
It's his kid.
You're excited to be a dad, butyou're not even really a dad.
I mean she would just go in onhim.

Speaker 2 (01:27:48):
Those are the women that.
Then she has the kid and he'slike I don't want to take care
of her because I don't even knowwhat's mine.
And then they're like why wouldyou say that?
That's so mean, exactly Becauseyou've been telling me this
whole time that it's not mine.
You want a paternity test what?

Speaker 1 (01:28:01):
Yeah, women like this , I don't get it.
Bitches be crazy, bitches becrazy.
In 1991 is when she gave birthto their son, eric, and soon
after the couple's fightingturned violent.
So it kind of seemed like shewas just not violent because she
was pregnant, okay.
And then as soon as shedelivers it turns violent again.

(01:28:24):
And this is her fifth kid,right Fourth.
So she has Melissa, natasha,sarah.

Speaker 2 (01:28:30):
Eric.
Oh okay, Fourth kid.

Speaker 1 (01:28:32):
Yep.
So she ends up taking out anAVO after they got into a fight
and John backhanded her twiceand Kathy punched him.
Okay, so they split up for aweek and then got back together
and Kathy hated that John drankso much, which just seems like
everybody in this town drinks alot right?

(01:28:53):
Yeah, that's just the thing todo.
She actually is not a very bigdrinker.
Okay, she's just crazy in herown right.
Yeah, she did not need alcohol.
So she kind of blameseverything and all their
fighting and all their problemson how much he's drinking.
And so John's like okay, I'llquit.
So he does, wow, he quitsdrinking.

(01:29:13):
He is able to stay sober, andthis is when Eric is five months
old.
And this doesn't help.
They just continue to fight.
So it was obviously not hisdrinking.
Yeah, in 1993, he ends up takinga two week job with a drug and
alcohol counseling service in alarger city.

(01:29:35):
So he has to leave Kathy andthe kids.
He goes on this two week joband he ends up loving it.
He loves the city and theyoffer him a job.
And so he's like you know what?
I decided to stay.
I want you guys to come with me.
I'll get a big house Like it'sa great opportunity, we can get
out of that small town, we'llhave more opportunity here.

(01:29:57):
And so Kathy visits him and theyhave sex, things are good for a
few days and then they get intoa huge fight and she left and
that was the end of theirrelationship.
So she breaks up with them.
She's like you stay here, I'mmoving back home, and John was
absolutely heartbroken, butKathy did not care at all.

(01:30:19):
What John didn't know was thatshe had already moved on and was
having an affair with anotherman named John Price.
So she was just deciding sortof which man she liked more.
So she was like with John inAberdeen and had sex with him

(01:30:40):
and tried to plan their future.
And then she's like okay, nowlet me go see what it looks like
with John.
Chilling's worth.

Speaker 2 (01:30:45):
Why are all of her men the same names?
I know David and David.
I know John and John.

Speaker 1 (01:30:50):
This is why I call one by last name.
Yeah, I know it's confusing, soshe ends up picking price.
Now, john Charles Thomas Pricehe he goes by pricey, that's
what everyone calls him as.
Pricey Okay was born on April4th 1955 in Gunnada, australia.

(01:31:14):
He was the oldest of sixchildren to parents Cynthia
orphan, which okay and.
Percy Price, percy Price I knowPercy.
Price I love it too.
Pricey was also wasn't verygood in school and by 15 he
still couldn't read or writewhat.
But he could drive a bulldozer,a backhoe, like any of the

(01:31:36):
Heavy, like machinery he wasreally really good at, which was
not common for a boy of his age.

Speaker 2 (01:31:44):
Where is parents, though, in this 15 years, when
he had gone to school, notreading or writing sounds?

Speaker 1 (01:31:49):
like he wasn't really good at it and In that town
nobody really Cared, right likethey're from these small towns
that are just, I'm gonna dropout at 15, yeah, I'm just gonna
go until I have to.
I don't really care aboutschool.
I'm not going to college.
I'm not gonna, like, makeanything like that out of my

(01:32:09):
life.
I'm just gonna go work in thefactories, yeah, and so when
you're raised like that, I thinkthey just don't care as much.

Speaker 2 (01:32:16):
It's like I don't really need this education isn't
like at the forefront ofeveryone's mind because
everyone's just gonna work likeManual labor right, yeah, so he
is a very, very hard worker andEverybody really really likes
pricey.

Speaker 1 (01:32:32):
He then met a woman named Colleen in we war, where
we were, we were where he lived,and the two fell in love
quickly and they end up gettingmarried when pricey was 18 and
Colleen was 17.
Okay, the two started a familyand had a son named Jonathan.
The following year the couplegave birth to their daughter,

(01:32:56):
rosemary Kaye, and as the kidsgrew and started school, the
family seemed really reallyhappy.
Pricey was described as a verycarefree and fun, happy and
generous person.
He made friends easily and wasa really good father and husband
.
Okay, in 1980 pricey movedcloser to his family where his

(01:33:20):
Mom, cynthia, and his stepdad,john White and his little
brother Bob were living, andthey lived in these things
called Caravan parks, which werelike kind of like mobile homes,
but they're all on wheels, andso His mom and stepdad have
their own caravan and then himand his family have a caravan,

(01:33:41):
and then his brother Bob has acaravan, and so they're all very
, very close together.
And One night his dad andbrother got into an argument
after going kangaroo hunting.

Speaker 2 (01:33:55):
And I guess I never really thought about that.
Yeah, they eat kangaroo, Ithink so, oh, okay but I know
people.

Speaker 1 (01:34:03):
I know people do a lot of kangaroo hunting In that
area.
Okay, because if you thinkabout it it's kind of like our
dear population.
Well, huh, they'll just likeovertake things and I don't want
some big, scary kangaroos.

Speaker 2 (01:34:17):
No, I'm gonna scare me.
I keep seeing.
I just think they were so cute.
And then I started watchingvideos of like real kangaroos.
I'm like these.
Have you seen the one where theones?

Speaker 1 (01:34:25):
right where a kangaroo gets a hold of the
Puppy or the dog.
Yeah, he's trying to drown itand the guy goes out.

Speaker 2 (01:34:31):
I'm like this yeah, punches it in the face and like
when he punches it you can.

Speaker 1 (01:34:36):
The kangaroo looks at him like Somebody actually
punch yeah, and they're like bigand muscly they are scary.

Speaker 2 (01:34:45):
They literally they're so scary.
They're so there's one video oflike someone's like back, like
they're sliding glass door andthere's a kangaroo just like
outside of it and it's likelooking at my all creepy shit.
And they're so muscly like.

Speaker 1 (01:34:59):
Why are they so muscly?
It freaks me out.
The baby kangaroos are realcute.
They're so cute and the momsaren't nearly as scary cartoon
kangaroos are so cute musclyones that just look like they're
gonna beat the shit out of you.

Speaker 2 (01:35:13):
We were tricked our whole lives into thinking
kangaroos were like seriouslycute and sweet and nice from
Winnie the Pooh and just arounda little room, yeah, and then
you see these videos and you'relike that shit's like legit.

Speaker 1 (01:35:26):
They're not true.

Speaker 2 (01:35:27):
No, no, I can't remember what someone said that
kangaroos Gosh.
I can't remember what animalthey said it was, but it was
some animals.
Cousin who's been to prison,bob Working out yeah, I like
that.

Speaker 1 (01:35:46):
So they get in this fight and Bob goes to leave and
I don't know why his dad justdidn't let him leave.
But his dad grabs a rifle andkind of fires it in the air to
get him to stop.
Okay, but Bob left and he is inhis truck I think it was the
truck that both of them drove in, so maybe that's why.
But he took off Down down theroad in the truck and it breaks

(01:36:09):
down Not very far from the camp,of course.
So Bob starts walking back tothe camp and he ends up hitting
his dad in the head and thenstole his gun.
And so John went to his Caravanand started loading a different
gun, which I was like what,what is happening?

Speaker 2 (01:36:30):
Why is?

Speaker 1 (01:36:30):
everyone loading guns your family but this is what's
happening and so.
Cynthia, the mom is trying tostep in and stop her husband
from loading the gun.

Speaker 2 (01:36:40):
We, you cannot get worse.

Speaker 1 (01:36:41):
I'm gonna stop, let's just take a breath, right.
But Bob had crept up near theircaravan and Saw his dad loading
another gun.
I was like, oh hell, no.
So he's like, well, if Ithere's a like a light in the in
the caravan, he's like if Ishoot that out, then my dad will
realize that I'm this close andthen I'm armed and he'll stop

(01:37:03):
what he's doing.
Right, which?
None of this, none of thismakes sense.

Speaker 2 (01:37:07):
I'm there really has to be all Involved.
I'm sure I'm sure this is notlike yeah, yeah, I'm gonna shoot
but I doubt, wait for this.

Speaker 1 (01:37:15):
So he shoots, but he missed the light and shoots his
mom in the head.
No, shoots his mom in the headand she doesn't die immediately.
So then the dad yells out andwas like, you shot your mom, so
Bob drops, as everyone dropstheir guns, finally, well, fun

(01:37:36):
and games until mom gets shot inthe head right.
Runs to Cynthia.
Oh, they rush her to thehospital, but she dies on the
way to the hospital in theirarms.

Speaker 2 (01:37:49):
Oh, my god, that's she was all 43 years old 43.

Speaker 1 (01:37:55):
This is terrible.
So Bob's arrested and pleadedguilty to manslaughter and he
sentenced to seven years inprison.

Speaker 2 (01:38:03):
Wow, but how sad for Bob too, I do have to say,
because, like, can you imagineBob and his dad are just having
some stupid testosterone fight,whatever the hell that was?
Yeah, and he Did not mean toshoot his mom and kill her, like
that's no, but the end of theday too, like, don't mess around

(01:38:24):
with guns, don't play with guns, they're not like a toy and
don't try and shoot a light outnear people.

Speaker 1 (01:38:30):
You're not a sharp shooter.
I'm sure you've been drinking.
Oh, so sad.
It's terrible like wow, it'ssuch a tragic, tragic Situation.
Yeah, and he felt so bad, likehim and his mom were very close,
like I can't even imagine no,all the things that he suffered
from this.
But it also took a huge toll onpricey because him and his mom

(01:38:52):
were very Close yeah, and hewasn't a part of any of it.

Speaker 2 (01:38:56):
Right, it was not.

Speaker 1 (01:38:57):
No, like what the hell he just hears about it
later.
So he ends up like not having agood relationship with his
brother and this just took likea big toll on his mental health.
Yeah, in 1981 he was strugglingto find work and they ended up
moving to Aberdeen and Startedworking there at the mine and

(01:39:20):
pricey met a man named Laurie,who also worked at the mine.
He was married, they both livedin the same caravan park and
they both had two kids.
So they became like immediatebest friends, yeah, and they
would often go on fishing tripsand would frequent the bar after
work.
The men and their wives wouldalso often go out dancing.

(01:39:42):
They all loved to dance and thefamily ends up building a house
like this pretty big, prettyred, like red brick house.
Okay, and they all move in andsoon after they move into their
house they welcomed their thirdchild in 1985, a girl named
Jackie.
The couple was very happy.

(01:40:05):
But three years after Jackie'sbirth the couple suddenly
separates and Colleen tells themthat she wants a divorce.
Okay, and she just wants out ofthe marriage.
So she ends up taking the twogirls but left Jonathan with his
dad and she is very nice withthis whole process.

(01:40:25):
She ends up leaving pricey theentire house and everything in
it.
She doesn't take anything buther clothes, okay, and she just
took enough money out of theirjoint account so that she could
buy a car.
Okay, pricey was shocked bythis and had no clue why Colleen
left.
Their relationship seemed to begreat and this also really

(01:40:46):
confused the children and theirfriends, like everyone around
them, thought that they weregreat.
They didn't fight ever.
Colleen basically later saidthat that he was such a generous
and giving person that he had ahard time Sort of focusing his
time on their marriage and her.

(01:41:08):
Okay, and he would just he wouldgo help this friend and go yeah
and be a great dad and beinvolved, and then she sort of
came last.
So she just felt like, you know, we just didn't spend that much
time together and after 15years we just grew apart.
Yeah, and she was I don't know.
She just said that they were,they stayed really good friends
and she felt like it had justturned in to more of a

(01:41:30):
friendship.
So that's why she left.
She said that she still lovedhim, but she ended up taking an
entire year to decide to leavehim.
She said it was really reallyhard, yeah, but they remained
friends.
They had a really goodco-parenting relationship and
and pricey was still very muchin love with Colleen and hoped

(01:41:51):
that she would come back to him.
I hope that he held on to for12 years oh Sad, even 10 years
after they split.
She reported there was a timethat he was going on holiday and
he just slipped $500 into herbank account so that she'd have
extra spending money.

Speaker 2 (01:42:13):
Like he was just a good guy yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:42:16):
He also was very supportive of the kids.
Anything she needed he wouldgive to her.
He just like he, worked to helphis kids like he didn't care
about anything for himself?
Yeah, but she was also just notsomebody that was like into that
stuff either and was like no,you work hard for your money.
Like I don't want to take it.
Yeah, like no, no, no here, oh,like you need to take care of

(01:42:39):
yourself as well.
Yeah, that's so nice, you know,he just seems like a good guy,
and they both started datingother people, but nothing really
stuck for too long.
Kathy and pricey ended upmeeting at a pub.

Speaker 2 (01:42:53):
In 1993.

Speaker 1 (01:42:55):
So we're back to Kathy night.
Oh, no, met.
They met at a pub in October of1993, and they had actually
known each other for yearsbefore that.
They just hadn't spent a lot oftime together.
Okay, because pricey was a goodfriend of her ex David Saunders
.
Oh no, did he not know abouther?

(01:43:15):
He knew about her.
Oh, pricey, pricey.
Pricey was just out for anothershort, just out of another
short relationship and was kindof on the rebound.
And you have to remember,though, this is such a small
area that the dating pool isvery limited.
I guess, very limited and it'snot uncommon to date a mate's ex

(01:43:40):
Like that's just how you haveto do it.
Okay, but I think that youshouldn't date your the ex when
they're this crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:43:50):
No, when you like your friend comes to work all
the time, the look like you cantell he's been beat the shit out
of.
Yeah, and I'm sure at somepoint People knew about the dog.

Speaker 1 (01:44:01):
Yeah, and everybody knew everything like small town.
Yeah, oh no.
So they got along really welland became pretty close pretty
quickly.
He loved her kids and theyseemed to really like him as
well, which was not very commonfor her kids to like a man.
He would help her out withmoney and he helped fix up

(01:44:24):
things in her house and he evenfixed Melissa's car for her when
it broke down.
Kathy was would also really takecare of him, so she'd get up
early and cook his meals so hehad a nice meal to take to work.
She sewed for him and helpedhim keep his house and they felt
madly in love and it actuallyseems like a pretty good fit.

(01:44:46):
Pricy would bring her flowersand they would both tell friends
how head over heels they werefor each other.
Kathy doted on him and they hada lot of fun.
Most weekends they would go outand get a few drinks and go
dancing and Pricy did not carethat Kathy towered over him,
which it always says towered.

(01:45:06):
He was like five foot six and Ithink she was five, seven or
Five eight so it's not likeshe's like a foot taller than no
, but Anyways.
So they loved to dance and, ofcourse, their sex life was
amazing.
They had sex all the time.
Kathy wasn't a really bigdrinker and she would just have

(01:45:27):
a couple of drinks.
Socially, john was a muchbigger drinker and to me he sort
of just seems like a functionalalcoholic.
Okay, actually, because hewould drink every single night
after work and he wanted time inthe pub without Kathy.
So he would get together withhis friends and drink a few

(01:45:49):
every single night and then onSaturdays and Sundays Without
Kathy.
But then the couple would alsogo out together on the weekends
and drink even more.
Oh, okay, pricy would go, wouldoften get a little cheeky when
he drink, and Kathy was evenquicker to anger when she drank.
Okay, they showered each otherwith gifts and would sometimes

(01:46:12):
get into little arguments, butnothing too big.
They didn't even have a first,their first big fight until a
year into their relationship,which was like really rare for
her.
Yeah, but this would be justthe beginning.
This was a start, the start ofa very on again, off again to
Multuous relationship.
About a year and a half intotheir relationship, things

(01:46:35):
shifted and Kathy seemed tostart having doubts about
Pricy's faithfulness, and itreally just seems like ever
since her first husband cheatedon her, she always felt that
when things weren't going wellit was because they were
cheating.
And it was no different withPricy.
He came home one night and shelit into him, accusing him of

(01:46:55):
cheating.
They got into a huge fight thatnight, but they were able to
end their fight as usual withsome steamy sex, and it didn't
go too far.
Pricy was pretty wasted andUnfortunately, in the throes of
passion he called out anotherwoman's name oh no which of
course made Kathy feel reallyhurt and upset, which I think

(01:47:20):
I'd make any woman or man.
Especially when you just gotinto a heated argument about
thinking that they were cheatingon you and they convinced you
that they're not.
And During your makeup sex theycall out another woman's name.
Oh, I would be.
I would be so pissed yeah andthen you're like well, of course
you're cheating.
Who was that?
Yeah, like yeah.

(01:47:41):
So in Kathy's defense which Ido will not defend most of the
things that she does but beforeher and Pricy had even started
dating, she had gotten herselfinto counseling and was trying
to work on herself.
Okay, knew that she had sometoxic traits and anger issues
and was trying to better herself.

(01:48:02):
With this fight and theemotional toll it took on her,
she really started strugglingEmotionally and mentally.
She was drinking more than sheever had, which still wasn't
much, they said even at thislike heightened drinking.
She had maybe six drinks a week.

Speaker 2 (01:48:19):
So it's not like she was going off the rails.

Speaker 1 (01:48:21):
Yeah.
But she was able to realizethat this was contributing to
her anger issues, and so sheleft the house with her kids and
decided to go get help.
She felt that the only placeshe could get help quickly was
through a a, even though shewasn't an alcoholic.
So she went into a large townof Brisbane Brisbane I don't

(01:48:44):
ever know how to say that.
I think it's Brisbane, but Ithink some people call it
Brisbane.

Speaker 2 (01:48:48):
Yeah, so there.

Speaker 1 (01:48:49):
Yeah, either way, she went there where and she?
She did that because she knewnobody would know her there and
she sought help for herself andher kids and she ended up
staying there for three months,okay, working on herself.
During this time, pricy wasmiserable without Kathy.
He would visit her often andhis friends later recalled that

(01:49:10):
he couldn't be away from her formore than two to three days.
He was even known to cutweek-long fishing trips with the
boys in half because he missedher.
Wow, okay, the couple washopeful that this was going to
be a fresh start for them.
But once Kathy moved back, theycontinued to fight off and on
and it was tricky because thingswere.

(01:49:31):
When things were great, theywere so amazing, yeah.
But then when they were bad, itwas scary and they, they didn't
care where they'd fight, itdidn't have to be in private,
they'd fight in public and thepubs, in front of their friends.
It really didn't matter.
Okay, they also WrangledPricy's BFF, laurie, into

(01:49:53):
helping them through theirfights and he was kind of their
go-to person to help calm thesituation down.
He said the fights mostlyescalated because Kathy wanted
Pricy to marry her and he workedin the mines and was really was
a really hard worker.
He was earning six figures andhad a much bigger house and she
was looking for that stabilityand she really, really, actually

(01:50:16):
did love him or she thought shedid.
She couldn't figure out why hewouldn't make an honest woman of
her, but he continued to refuse.
He had set up a trust for allof his stuff that he had,
including his house, and wantedeverything he owned to go to his
kids when he died.
He knew marriage would giveKathy access to all of it, and

(01:50:39):
that was his big reason why hedidn't want to get married again
, because he didn't want hiskids to miss out on the things
he had worked for for them.
Some of his friends also thoughtthat he didn't want to marry
her because deep down he stillloved Colleen and knew it
wouldn't work out with Kathy butKathy.
So Kathy still had her housebut wouldn't fully move in with

(01:51:00):
Pricy unless he married her,because if she moved in with him
She'd lose her pension.
So after she got this injury,she got this pension that paid
her a certain amount.
It wasn't much, but it wasenough for her to live on, and
if she moved in with someone,even if they weren't married,
she would lose it.
Oh, okay.
So she felt like that would beher way of feeling, like she was

(01:51:24):
stable, as if she was married,because then, if anything
happened, she could get moneyout of it.
Then more fighting ensued whenshe found out that Pricy wasn't
even officially divorced fromColleen.
Oh, she.
So then she's like years, right, years, and years and years,
yes.
And so she's like well, that'sthe reason that you don't want

(01:51:47):
to marry me, because you legallycan't you're not even divorced
you, dumb ass.
Yeah, so she Convinces Pricythat he needs to get a divorce.
So he calls Colleen up and sayshey, listen, this is what's
happening, we need a divorce.
And Colleen's like, yeah,that's fine, I completely
understand that, but neither ofthem.
Neither of them could reallysay why they had never gone

(01:52:10):
through the official divorce.

Speaker 2 (01:52:11):
They just hadn't done it.
I mean I do get that took acent, because mean chain did
wait a long time and it wasfinally just like, okay, we just
sit down and do this.
But we had like moved on andlike everything was set.
And I think it was Kind of thesame like Shane's always been
really good at like helping withthe kids and doing whatever
needs to be done, and so it wasjust like wasn't something you

(01:52:33):
didn't have to get like certainthings in writing and yeah, so
it was like that's how this was.

Speaker 1 (01:52:37):
Yeah, just.

Speaker 2 (01:52:39):
They just kind of just hadn't done it.
Yeah, but I say that to people,they're just like what, and
it's like I don't know, like wejust didn't, we just hadn't sat
down and done it, yeah so that'sthem and so, but Colleen's like
not upset by this.

Speaker 1 (01:52:50):
She's like I completely understand where
Kathy would be coming from, ofcourse.
So they get a divorce, butstill Pricy refuses to marry
Kathy, and that is where we willstop part one.
Okay, oh, you guys have to tunein next week because I know
we've covered a lot of shit andAll the things that she's done,

(01:53:12):
but it gets so much worse.

Speaker 2 (01:53:14):
I can't eat, I honestly can't even.
I mean I know what happens, butlike Through all of this stuff,
like how can it honestly get?
I know worse, it's so muchworse so tune in next week.

Speaker 1 (01:53:28):
So we are gonna hold off on our Soul cleanse.
Yeah, tell next week becauseyou'll really need it.
And yeah, so go follow us onall of the things.
Go sign up for our patreon.
Share with your friends andfamily, wherever you listen to
your podcast, go in and clickthe automatic download button

(01:53:50):
that helps us with our downloadsand that way, if you ever lose
service, you can always have uson a road trip.
Yeah, absolutely, and rememberto keep listening if you want in
on the sin.
Bye, bye, guys.

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