0094 Sir Gene Speaks with Dude Named Defango

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sir Gene (00:00):
Hey, this is Sir Gene, and today
I wanted to thank Lisa for thedonation that she sent in.
I appreciate that.
Donations.
It's certainly not necessary,but if you guys feel like you're
getting value for value.
Go ahead and send something into that address and i will
certainly appreciate any moneythat does come in but anyway

(00:22):
joining me is Deeno, and this is his second time on
the podcast.
It's always been over a year, Ithink.
Is that right?

Defango (00:29):
about a year.
It's been about a year.
I think it's since last year,last December.

Sir Gene (00:33):
A lot of things have changed in the last year, huh?

Defango (00:35):
Yeah, I guess, I mean, it seems like the world is a, a
much different place than itwas,

Sir Gene (00:41):
Mm-hmm.

Defango (00:42):
but there's still people that are trying to change
things for the better, I guess.
Maybe for

Sir Gene (00:46):
I, there, there's a few of'em out there, but Sure.
Seems like there's a lot ofpeople trying to change things
for the worst though.

Defango (00:54):
Yeah.
But that's just like humanity atthis point.

Sir Gene (00:57):
Well I've been, you know, I've said for a while I,
I'm just, I think maybe it'stime to let some other species
take, take a turn.

Defango (01:04):
You think so?
For

Sir Gene (01:05):
I kinda like bears.
I think bears they, they need tohave a chance to run things.

Defango (01:11):
Yeah.
Well, I, I mean, don't theyalready kind of run things?
They just run things up on themountain.

Sir Gene (01:16):
Well, they're an apex animal.
I mean, I wouldn't really evencall'em a predator cuz they,
they eat plenty of vegetation aswell as meat.
But there's really nothing otherthan people that kill bears.
But I guess wolf packs sometimescan as well.
But yeah, it just, it, it seemslike they're, you know, compared
to the monkeys of.

(01:38):
A million years ago, it, it'sinteresting that it wasn't bears
who have bigger brains than themonkeys that ended up taking the
reins and moving technologicallyforward.

Defango (01:48):
Mm.
Yeah, that's actually kind ofstrange.
But then again, bears don't havethumbs.

Sir Gene (01:52):
Well, you know, it's interesting you say they don't
have thumbs, but they canactually hold things be by
curling their fingers.
So bears have been, you know,documented as being able to hold
tools quite effectively.

Defango (02:08):
Oh,

Sir Gene (02:08):
Like a bear can grab a drill and, you know, drill a
hole.

Defango (02:12):
That's scary.

Sir Gene (02:14):
Mm-hmm.
And one of my favorite videosout there is I, I think from
Yellowstone, which is a video ofa bear slowly walking down the,
a paved road and coming up to a,a cone, you know, a plastic red
cone that is tipped oversideways where there's a the
edge of the road's kind ofwashed out a little bit and the

(02:35):
bear stops and picks up thecone, stands it straight up and
then keeps on going and as merryway.

Defango (02:42):
What a nice bear.

Sir Gene (02:43):
Well, it's clearly a bear that's got a little bit of
OCD happening.
It's just, you know, the conejust being sideways like that
just doesn't feel right.

Defango (02:51):
He's like, no, this is supposed to be standing up.

Sir Gene (02:54):
Yeah.
So he, he fixed it and kept ongoing.
So I'm

Defango (02:59):
are good, crazy animals.
I mean, there's bears that comearound where I live, and
honestly, I just wave at themand they

Sir Gene (03:06):
Yeah.
Well, that's what, that's allthey expect of you.

Defango (03:09):
Yeah, just wave.

Sir Gene (03:10):
Mm-hmm.
just say, Hey, I see you.
You see me?
I see you.
We're good.

Defango (03:16):
We're good Mr.
Bear.
Don't eat me.
Yeah.

Sir Gene (03:19):
No, I like bears.
When I was a kid, I used to playwith bears all the time,

Defango (03:24):
That's weird.
What do you,

Sir Gene (03:26):
but they're,

Defango (03:26):
Russian?
Russian

Sir Gene (03:28):
yeah, yeah.
There, they're there's a lotmore bear pets in Russia than in
this country.
Like, I don't, I don't thinkthere are any here.

Defango (03:35):
There are.
There's a few, it's generallyfrowned upon in the United
States.

Sir Gene (03:41):
Like, I remember watching Grizzly Adams TV show
back in the late seventies,early eighties, and I, I thought
like that was a normal thing andthat everybody who lived out in
the country had a pet bear.
And, and then I was disappointedto learn that's not the case.

Defango (03:56):
You're gonna move out to the country.
You're already looking at bears,

Sir Gene (04:01):
Mm-hmm.

Defango (04:01):
and then you got there and you're like, wait a minute,
I can't own a bear.
This sucks.

Sir Gene (04:05):
Yeah.
What the hell?
What's up with that?
It's, it's not even about owninga bear.
It's just like, you know, abear's a cool animal that can
sit there on the porch, smoke apipe and eat some honey, and,
you know, you can both sit thereand watch the, the leaves
changing in the fall.
It's just, it's a beautifulthing.

Defango (04:23):
Yeah, I'd be down for that.
I'd be down for a bear friend.

Sir Gene (04:26):
Yeah.
Bear friends are cool.
And,

Defango (04:28):
cool.

Sir Gene (04:29):
and, and they, they sleep a lot.
Like all winter long.

Defango (04:35):
That's how I sleep

Sir Gene (04:36):
All winter

Defango (04:37):
all winter long.

Sir Gene (04:39):
Are you getting ready for your vibration for the
season?

Defango (04:42):
I'm already in my hibernation

Sir Gene (04:43):
Oh, well I, sorry to wake you up for, for the
recording here.

Defango (04:48):
Yeah.
I don't usually wake up beforelike 11 o'clock just because
there's no reason

Sir Gene (04:53):
by the way, you sound like you just moved about four
feet away from the mic.

Defango (04:56):
I moved.
What?
How does

Sir Gene (04:58):
Yeah, you got, you got quieter.

Defango (05:00):
that's weird.
I should be louder.

Sir Gene (05:02):
Really?
I don't know.

Defango (05:04):
messed anything.

Sir Gene (05:06):
Well, that's weird

Defango (05:07):
setting in the same spot.

Sir Gene (05:09):
are you really?
Because if you look at your yourwaveform pattern in the
zencaster that we used to recordthese, it's definitely gotten a
lot smaller

Defango (05:18):
well, yours looks really big.
Mines looked always small for.

Sir Gene (05:22):
now.
Was it?
Look at that small.
Okay, well nevermind then.
Let's just keep going.
I thought some reason somethinghappened that, that the mic got
further away from you.
So Dego, what what is going onin your world?
I know you've got a YouTubevideo now.
Do you do that daily or is thatevery few days?
Because I catch it maybe once aweek.

Defango (05:39):
It's whenever I feel like it,

Sir Gene (05:41):
Okay.
That's probably why I only catchit once a week.

Defango (05:44):
yeah, it's whenever I feel like it.
I used to do it daily.
I mean, I used to do multiple,like videos and shows a

Sir Gene (05:50):
Mm-hmm.

Defango (05:51):
I'm just, just tired and you know, I, I don't get
his, I don't get the same amountof viewership that I used to for
my content.
So, you know, like I've had toadjust how I'm doing things.
So I'm just trying to prettymuch keep my YouTube channel
alive and on the partnershipprogram.
But outside of that, I haven'treally tried to do much.

(06:15):
I mean, it's just, it's kind ofhard, you know, you get, I, you
get, you get discouraged or youget, you get fed up.
I've worked really, really hardfor many, many years and I've
been through a lot of ups anddowns and I think this last year
I've just kind of like tried towork and take a break on it.
And I haven't really seen anydifferences.

(06:36):
I always get the same amount ofpeople watching the show, you
know, but I'm not getting anygrowth, which is sad.
But, you know, it's, it's whathappens, you know,

Sir Gene (06:46):
Well, you may be missing some bear videos if I
could suggest something.

Defango (06:51):
Yeah.
Some what?

Sir Gene (06:52):
Bear videos.

Defango (06:54):
Oh, bear videos.

Sir Gene (06:56):
Mm-hmm.
videos of bears.

Defango (06:57):
Oh yeah.
Maybe.

Sir Gene (06:59):
Yeah.
People like those.

Defango (07:02):
I guess I could try that.

Sir Gene (07:03):
It's,

Defango (07:04):
I only have one video of bears on my channel.

Sir Gene (07:07):
do you, yeah.
Yeah.
You might wanna get more ofthose and get some videos of you
waving to bears.
People like that

Defango (07:14):
Mm-hmm.

Sir Gene (07:15):
would be

Defango (07:15):
Oh, I haven't seen a bear in a while.

Sir Gene (07:18):
Oh.
Hmm.
Well, that's not a good sign.

Defango (07:23):
Oh, I mean, they're already asleep.

Sir Gene (07:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Actually this time of year, inyour neck of the woods, they
probably are already

Defango (07:31):
Yeah, they're sleeping by now.
They usually come out in likeNovember and then they
disappear.
We don't see them at all.

Sir Gene (07:39):
Yep.
Taking a little, little nap.
I haven't seen a whole lot ofvideos of you doing SAR either,

Defango (07:46):
Oh.
Just cuz I haven't been playingStar Citizen.

Sir Gene (07:48):
and I'm gonna explain it.

Defango (07:50):
Yeah, I just haven't been playing it.
I mean, I was having some fun inthree 17

Sir Gene (07:56):
Mm-hmm.

Defango (07:57):
dropped the patch, but I mean, it's just more of the
same.
There isn't anything for me newto do.
I've literally done it all in

Sir Gene (08:04):
Well, three 18 is now in the P T U,

Defango (08:07):
Yeah, that's what I heard.

Sir Gene (08:08):
so it should be coming out probably February is my
guess,

Defango (08:14):
Yeah.
Probably.

Sir Gene (08:15):
main server.
That's realistic.
Guess most people are sayingnext week, but that's not a
realistic guess.
February's probably closer toreality.
Hus stripping is, you know, it'sa new thing.
The more they add, the better,as far as I'm concerned.
Is it something that super fun'sgonna take up a lot of people's
time?
Probably not.

Defango (08:33):
yeah, I can think it would be, I mean, it's cool, but
the one thing that I thought youwere supposed to be able to do
was like cut into the inside ofa ship is not, and so I just
don't care.
at that

Sir Gene (08:47):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, and then maybe that'llcome later, but I know there's a
game called hole Breakers, Ibelieve, or Ship Breaker.
Ship Breaker, which I've playedbefore.
And it, like, that's all you doin the game is you, you take
apart ships and you wannamaximize the collection of the
materials without any, like,minimize waste, maximize sorting
and collecting the stuff,whether it's something that's a

(09:10):
component that gets reused, orwhether it's like recycled
material or whether it's metalthat you're gonna melt and then
reuse.
That's a pretty fun game.
And in that game, like youdefinitely completely rip the
ship apart and then salvage theactual components that they're
still operational from it.
I would love to see somethinglike that in star but who knows

(09:30):
if it's ever gonna happen.

Defango (09:33):
I don't know, maybe it might, I mean, I'm looking
forward to when three 18 dropsso I could actually try to play
and, you know, get back into it.
Cuz obviously they said thatthey're gonna be changing flight
models and things again.
And I mean, this is like, thisis like a, I don't know how many
times since I started playing, Istarted

Sir Gene (09:51):
Ev every other year.

Defango (09:53):
Yeah.
Like, I think I started playingit just before 3.0.
So like, I've been through everydifferent flight model that
they've basically done exceptfor the ones before that.
And I mean, the best model thatthey had was the original flight
model that I came into.
I mean, that was perfect.
It, it felt good.

(10:14):
Everybody had an equal footingin the way that they could fly.
It wasn't as technical per se.
And then, you know, you, youreally just didn't have a bunch
of the cheese balls that thinkthey're fighter pilots.
You know, like Avenger would,all these guys that believe that
they have all of the answers onall the fighting, but you know,

(10:36):
they just can't fucking, theyjust can't let everybody know
that they're, you know, actuallyjust utilizing a.
Which is something that I'vebeen talking about for a while
about a lot of different contentcreators.
But basically the way it boilsdown is that, you know, ever
since Star Citizen allowed thereshape binary, so it's a d l A
dynamic link library that'sinjectable into the game since

(10:59):
they allowed the reshape binary,there's been basically a hacked
version of this re-shaped binaryfloating around Discords and all
over the place.
And I mean with that one littlebinary you could get around the
EAC and it's pretty clear to seewhenever somebody's, you, you're
fighting somebody and they don'tmiss, right?

(11:19):
Like it's pretty easy for themto toggle that often on.
They could have it on theirjoysticks.

Sir Gene (11:24):
Mm-hmm.

Defango (11:25):
mean, I've gone through countless hours of footage on
different channels cuz like Iwatched Star Citizen, you know,
if people aren't gonna watch me,I'll go watch somebody else or
whatever.
And I've seen that, you know,for now it seems that a lot of
these guys are starting to getcaught for it.
But at the same time, you know,like that's something that needs
to get fixed big time in three18.

(11:45):
Like what's the point of reshapeother than doing something.

Sir Gene (11:50):
I don't understand why they would allow reshape,
reshape serves no purpose atall.
And if you wanna have peoplegive them the ability to do what
reshape does, make it be a partof the official game.

Defango (12:04):
Yeah, exactly.
Make it be part of the game.

Sir Gene (12:06):
not some after party, third party thing that people,
some people have, very fewpeople have and most people have
never heard of.
Instead of doing that, just putit in options in their graphic
settings.

Defango (12:19):
Yeah, just gimme some options so that I can fix that
or give me more control over theway the game is rendered.
Because right now, you know, youreally only have one graphic
setting high or very high.
The difference between the twoor basically negligible, one of
'em uses the g p more than theother one.

(12:39):
And then if you put it on low,it does some weird stuff with
the sizing of things, but likeused to have a lot more
granulation and a granularability to fix it.
Like I had star citizen runningat a solid, like 70 to 90 frames
per second back in 2017 becauseI used to be able to edit my

(13:00):
files so that like I could makeit run the way that I wanted to
run.
Like I could change the size oftessellation and things

Sir Gene (13:07):
Mm-hmm.

Defango (13:08):
nature so that my rig could be perfectly running it
and I was getting likeconsistent.
No leg, no drops nowadays.
I get better than that.
Like I'm sitting probably aroundanywhere from 70 to 90, but I've
lost that like entire ability tochange the granularity for
little things here and there onmy card.

(13:28):
Like you're basically limited towhatever this graphics, card
settings, operations that are,you're allowed, you know, like
limiting stuff.
That's basically all you can do.
But I mean, I'd like moreability to change how they are,
you know, like more granularoptions for like the different
graphic settings.
So like I can completely turnsomething off that I don't want

(13:51):
running because like, that'sjust normal PC gaming, I'm sure
very, very happy to see all thisextra stuff, but I honestly
don't care about the littleflower pedals and shit falling
at Orison.
So like, I want to be able toturn that shit off, you know,
like to me that's, that'simportant.
If they're gonna be making agame that's going to fit for
everybody.

Sir Gene (14:10):
Yeah.

Defango (14:11):
I've been out of it for a while, you know?

Sir Gene (14:14):
Yeah.
Well, more options is generallya good thing, and I'm not a fan
of a lot of things they've beendoing lately because it seems
like they're dumbing things downrather than adding more options
for us to use.

Defango (14:26):
Yeah.
They're dumbing things down andmaking me have more buttons,
which is, I mean, I still havethe same T 1600 th masters that
was going to purchase some like,newer sticks, but I realized
that The newer sticks that I wasgonna purchase those v kb is to
have basically the same issuethat these other ones that I'm

(14:47):
using already have.
So unless I pay like, you know,verbal, verbal levels, I'm not
going to get this like one thingthat I really, really have a
problem with in star citizen.
And it's just like the flightgoing up and down.
Like, you know, when you'retrying to actually dog fight
with somebody and your joystickhas a dead zone, that's massive.

(15:08):
You know, like that, that'sreally hampering, hampers you
and your ability to fly.
And I mean, this is only for avery small percentile, people
that actually care about dogfighting.
But like, it's something that Ithink translates pretty clearly.
When you start rolling around onthe mouse and keyboard and then
you start playing around with iton like a joystick, you start to

(15:31):
see the, you know, thatgranularity is really necessary.
And it's just weird that theyhaven't been able to fix it.
Like they're focused on fixingthe flight where it all or
making it better, whatever.
But I don't know, you know, thelast fight model they did, they
slowed everything down and itjust made fighting boring.

Sir Gene (15:49):
Yeah.
Yep.

Defango (15:51):
it's more of, now it's not a skill-based thing, it's
more of a, oh, I did this onelittle macro trick that.
I do all the time and you know,oh, I got'em.
Or you have a combination of acouple of factors, you know,
like them utilizing the reshapeinjection in order to get a

(16:12):
little bit better aiming, thatsort of thing.
I mean, it's sad, but I'mlooking, I'm like looking to the
future.
I'm looking to get back in.
I just had to take, you know, aclean break.
Like I played three 17 for awhile and then as soon as they
announced that they were gonnabe doing a wipe, I was just
kinda like, Hmm, I'm gonna goplay New World.
You know, they, they came outwith some new content.

(16:34):
I'm gonna go waste some hoursand that.
And honestly I like it because Icould just sit on the auction
house, buy and sell stuff, and Ijust make money all day.

Sir Gene (16:42):
There you go.
Yeah, it's a again, I, you know,I've obviously, I've.
put money in the game.
I bought some spaceships, butit's a,

Defango (16:50):
You've bought a lot of spaceships,

Sir Gene (16:52):
Well, okay.
I bought a few spaceships.

Defango (16:53):
bro.
You're you, I told you not tobuy all them spaceships

Sir Gene (16:57):
you're the main reason that I got into buying
spaceships cuz you're

Defango (17:00):
I told you to buy one.

Sir Gene (17:02):
I bought it and then, and then I realized that there's
a better one.

Defango (17:06):
Yeah, well there's always gonna be a better one.
That's the way it is.
Game gets you, like, I didn'thave that much into the game,
but then I finally got, youknow, my what, what do they call
the certification?
You know,

Sir Gene (17:18):
Which one?

Defango (17:18):
certificate you get whenever you spend a thousand
bucks.
They give you some kind ofcertificate.
That's your certificate ofdumbass.

Sir Gene (17:25):
thing.
Yep.

Defango (17:26):
There you go.
Concierge.
You know, when I, once I made itto concierge, I was just like,
oh,

Sir Gene (17:31):
Well the thing that I love in that game is they don't
show you anything expensiveuntil you've spent a thousand
dollars.
Once you've spent a thousanddollars in the game, then they
open up the The shades andthey're like, oh, would you be
interested in some of thesethings as well?

Defango (17:49):
Yeah.
Would you be interested in thesegigantic packs of a bunch of

Sir Gene (17:52):
Uhhuh, Uhhuh, Yo.
They're a special deal that weonly only give to our preferred
members like you cuz you'respecial

Defango (18:03):
Yes.
We found that you spend lots ofmoney on, in-game or on virtual
spaceships.
So we wanna milk if for some

Sir Gene (18:09):
Yeah.
Yeah,

Defango (18:10):
I don't have a problem with that.

Sir Gene (18:12):
I don't either.
You know, people should be ableto spend money on whatever they
want.
A lot of people spend money inmore dumb ways than video games.

Defango (18:19):
Yeah, dude, NFTs were a thing.
Okay.
You know, like NFTs existedbefore NFTs, they were called
JPEGs and Robert SpaceIndustries and Cloud and Purium
Gaming had that shit lock beforeanybody else.
Okay.

Sir Gene (18:32):
Oh, and they're, they finished off the year with a
hundred million this year, sothey're doing very well.

Defango (18:37):
Yeah.
So they made a hundred millionlast year.
They made a hundred million thisyear.
And that's, I mean, the game'snot going anywhere, which is
great.
But the thing is, is that nowthat I've been in this like
cycle for nearly five years,I've realized that.
You know, it's gonna be anotherfive years before they even are,

(18:59):
are, are even close to eventrying to talk about beta,
right?

Sir Gene (19:04):
Well, I don't, I think that the problem they run into
is that their business model nowis very successful and it's
built on the idea of neverleaving Alpha.

Defango (19:13):
Mm-hmm.

Sir Gene (19:15):
So it would be financially costly for them to
go to beta, and, which is why Ithink they're really focusing on
Squadron 42, which is a singleplayer game that's built in the
same universe as the m o andthat they can make and then
sell.
And then make the next one andthen sell that one.

(19:36):
And that doing that also allowsthem to keep the MMO game in
perpetual alpha.

Defango (19:44):
yeah.
Well, I mean, the MMO game'salways gonna be a perpetual
alpha.
It was never really what thegame was supposed to be like.
The part of the reason thatthey're so focused on Squadron
42 is because their terms withKickstarter basically says that.
That's part of the thing thathas to be out, or they can be

(20:05):
sued for not basically doingwhat they said that they were
going to do in the first place.
So like, they've been focusing alot on SCO 42.
That's the thing that they'regonna put out there.
But let's be, let's be frankhere, about like the single
player game.
And they don't, people aren'tbuying single player games in

(20:27):
the same way that they used tobe.
Right?
So it's either gonna have to bethe best single player
experience that anybody's everseen, or they're simply not
gonna make money on this game.
I mean, even now, the, when youlook at the way that it's going
they're making a single playergame to get people in, but
that's basically, ultimatelyjust gonna serve as the tutorial

(20:49):
for their other more major, youknow, product.
And like right now, the onlyreason that they've been able to
make so much money is because ofthe p you know, the persistent
universe.
Because if it wasn't for thepersistent universe, do you
think that people would bepaying thousand, a thousand
dollars for a spaceship?
You know, would, would anybodyhave a reason to buy a carer for

(21:10):
a thousand dollars if the PEdidn't?

Sir Gene (21:13):
No.
No.
Well, Carrick's only 600.
Only.

Defango (21:17):
you know, I'm only 600.
But you know, just an example,right?
Like the more that you startlooking at these ships that
they're selling is that the,their entire business model is
hinged on the pu the MMOexperience that we don't have,
you know, our, our MMOexperience is a hundred players.
That's what they can do.

(21:37):
You know, I go play New World, Ican be you know, I could be on a
server with up to, I think it's20,000 players, but you know,
generally I'm seeing 700 to 800people all on the same shard,
right?
Like all on the same note.
And to me that's pretty cool.
It's pretty, sometimes it getslaggy or whatever, you know, it
ain't perfect.
Amazon servers pretty much suck,but you know, that's because I

(22:00):
don't like them because I'veused them for other things.
So, you know, if they didn'twork for me, doing something on
the web that was pretty simplethat didn't involve graphics and
things, you know, anything thatactually involves graphics and
things that's running on Amazonhas never been, you know,
something that I would putmyself behind.
But hey, you know, they'repretty locked up in Amazon AM or

(22:23):
Star Citizen is, and I mean,it's good because it's not going
anywhere, right?
Like Bezos and the gang aren'tgoing, are gonna push to make
sure that this thing staysaround.
But.
You know, we're so slow on thethings that we get.
Like I was able to play throughevery conceivable play style in

(22:46):
that game in about three years.
And then after that, like therereally hasn't been too many
extensions of things to do.
You know?
Like I can go experience the newai, go run some bunkers, go loot
some stuff, but

Sir Gene (23:02):
Yeah.
You run out of things to do.
And then that's the thing is Ithink when you're brand new, and
I, I'm just remembering back twoyears to when I started playing
the, it, it's so massive interms of how many different
things it seems you can do.
The problem is extremelyshallow.
So when you've done one bunker,you know what every other bunker

(23:22):
looks like

Defango (23:23):
correct.

Sir Gene (23:24):
you've done one.
You know, E R e h r t or, orlike the, any level of really a
mission to do a bounty for annpc.
The only thing that changes forlevels is the ships they bring,
but the actual process isexactly the same.
And then once you've done thetop tier of those NPC Bounty

(23:47):
missions, everyone is identicalto the previous one.
So it's just not sh it's, it'svery shallow.
It's not deep at all.
There's no real differences.
And then it was while both of uswere playing that they removed
all differentiation between gunsand components, which just
seemed insane.

Defango (24:05):
Mm-hmm.

Sir Gene (24:06):
We went from being able to pick and choose what's
gonna work really well to allthe sudden everything is the
same.
It doesn't matter what gun youpick.
Yeah,

Defango (24:16):
so, so it's like when you're dog fighting, basically
it leaves it up to only one'stype of gun is really gonna get
used at any given point in time.
And sure, there's a bit of adifferentiation between
ballistics and the other one,but even then, like we went from
having a flight model that gaveyou the freedom to move and fly

(24:39):
how you felt without any type oflike limitations on you.
And that was fantastic.
And I mean, you could shootlasers all day long.
I mean, you could just sit thereand roll Cole all day long and
nothing would've been a, youknow, like you could just have
battles where you were justshooting at each other for like
five minutes and that was cool.

(24:59):
But when they shifted to the newflight model, their genius idea
was that, oh, well we're goingto make all the guns the same
because we want to get peopleout of the meta, right?
We we're trying to kill themeta, and ultimately they didn't
kill the meta whatsoever.
It was just that they changedthe way that your plane would
fly.
So basically, whoever can get ontarget faster and stay on

(25:24):
target.
Is always going to win theengagement every single time,
which I guess makes it more likea traditional dog fight, but it,
it

Sir Gene (25:33):
and yeah.
And, and then this is somethingthat I notice and I've been
repeating cuz I think it's true,is that Chris Roberts is a big
fan of World War II fighterpilots and simulations,

Defango (25:46):
War II planes are garbage.

Sir Gene (25:49):
and they are garbage.
And so what he's done is he'screated a space game because
that's what people paid for,that has World War II fighter
plane physics in it.
It, it's, and that's the part ofthe game that I really hate is
that I just feel like, andespecially now that I've been
going back to Lee Dangerous alot more and realizing just how

(26:11):
much better flight model thathas is, is getting into.
Star citizen and then trying todo fights.
And that you basically have toforce yourself to ignore
everything you know about actualyou know, space flight and the
way that physics actually workin space.
Because in Star Citizen, the wayeverything works is pretend

(26:34):
you're flying a World War IIaircraft, then you'll be a lot
closer to the way the game's setup.

Defango (26:40):
Yeah.
And that's the big problem.
Like, if I wanted to play fly aP 52 or something, I would go
play a World War II game.
When I'm flying an Invil arrowspaceship, the smallest, most
sleekest fast, most agilefighter, like it should fly like
that.
I should be able to turn on adime.
I should be able to go up anddown, like my life depended on

(27:04):
it.
If I jam on the thruster and hitthose bottom jets, like I should
be flying up so fast that I getGlock, you know, almost get
Glock.
And that's how it used to be.
It used to be a space combatgame.
And when it was a space combatgame, I shit on all of these
other so-called pilots becauseback then they couldn't hack the

(27:25):
game like they can now.
Okay.
And now with this new combatsystem, it's basically the same
thing over and over and overagain.
Slow down.

Sir Gene (27:35):
an easy example of that is that if you watch
Avenger one, and not to pick onhim all the time, it's just he's
very popular and his videos are,are very good production
quality.
I like what he's done.
But you know, they're talkingabout doing these J turns and
then merging and it's like,dude, none of these things would
ever be done in actual spacewith real physics because you

(27:56):
don't need to, because thebeauty is of a spaceship
compared to an airplane is theairplane always has to have the
nose pointing in the directionof travel.
Because if you don't, you'regonna lose lift and you're gonna
create a tremendous amount ofpressure from directions you
don't want on the plane fromaeronautic pressure that is, are

(28:18):
gonna either tear the planeapart or just flip it around and
make it go in a crazy direction.
None of that exists in space.
So in space you can literally goin direction A and then spin
your ship around to where thenose points in any other
direction and then stay pointingin that other direction while
you correct what your flightpath is like.

(28:41):
You literally, a spaceship willalways be pointing at the enemy
regardless of what directionit's flying.
But you can't do that in thisgame because this game star
citizen, this setup as thoughyou're doing World War II dog
fights.

Defango (28:55):
Exactly.
So like you try to flip yourplay, you try to flip your ship
around to be going backwards.
And this is something that I

Sir Gene (29:03):
it's like it's resisting in space.
It's resisting flipping around.
That's insane.

Defango (29:07):
yeah, it's just absolutely insane.
So like, I remember playing likefly games back in the day.
Like I've floated on F 16simulators to F 18 simulators.
I played, you know, Falcon at4.0 and all the other like space
sim or flight simulator gamesthat were available.
And I, I still remember, likeback in the day, it was like a
feat.
It was something that was crazyto see when, you know, You're

(29:31):
flying your F 16, one of yourengines get shot out, you try
hitting the extinguishers, theydon't go off.
So you're basically, your onlymove is to cook both engines and
flip the plane so that it'sflying backwards.
And that was something back inthe day that you could do that
you would probably lose yourflight license for.
But you know, like I was able tocommit to something like that,

(29:52):
get my engine turned off, turnit back on and somehow save the
plane.
And that was like some cool assshit that, you know, made sense
for a plane that flies in theatmosphere.
But then we get into startCitizen and like the flight
model used to make sets goinginto the atmosphere, you had to
fly slower because of theatmosphere and everybody was

(30:15):
okay with that.
There was a strongdifferentiation between when you
were in space and when you wereon the planet.
And now it's not like that.
It's

Sir Gene (30:24):
No, there's like no difference.

Defango (30:26):
time.
The only difference now is thatyou could either fly faster or
slower, basically.
So like they're limiting yourspeed, they're limiting your
ability to move around.
And I'm like, cool with that foratmo.
You know, like if the flightmodel only changed for the
atmosphere to what it is now andthe space combat was still the
same, I would've been a happycamper.

(30:47):
But then again, you know,they've been discussing

Sir Gene (30:49):
And there's a lot of stuff that, that could be
improved.
And I just sent you a couplelinks to spreadsheets I've put
together around the game.
Let's see if you're curiousabout what I've been up to here.
But so, and the thing the gamedoes have going for it is, at
least right now, there still isno other games that have the
visual quality, the detail ofthe models.
And that's, you gotta give bigprops to the art team at Robert

(31:12):
Space Industries at, at c I gfor creating these awesome
spaceships.
The, the problem is that thatteam is great.
Marketing is really good at whatthey do, which is pulling money
out of people.
But there, there's a lot ofproblem with development, a lot
of problem with testing, and ahuge problem with actually
fixing.

Defango (31:33):
Yeah.
Well, I mean, the bug thing hasbeen a problem for them because
they've just laid on that excusethat, oh, well, you know, we'll
start fixing bugs when we're inbeta.

Sir Gene (31:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's like we don't care aboutthe bugs.
We're an elephant.
It's like, that's not how itworks, guys.
That's totally not how it works.

Defango (31:48):
Yeah.
It's literally not how it works.
The first thing that you'resupposed to do is optimize the
games so that you know yourtesters can play it without it
being garbage,

Sir Gene (31:57):
yeah.

Defango (31:58):
and they still haven't done that either.

Sir Gene (31:59):
It's not really testing if what people are,
quote unquote playing resdoesn't at all resemble the
final product.

Defango (32:06):
Correct, correct.

Sir Gene (32:07):
Like, that's not testing guys.

Defango (32:10):
Yeah, that's not testing.
But then again, you know, liketheir idea of testing is what we
don't know.
I mean, sure they try to bereally transparent about what
they're doing, but ultimatelyit's just a production, right?
Like they don't, they don't giveus hardly any information about
what's happening other than thefuture.
And I mean, what's the futurefor us?
They've been, again, really,really heavy on changing the

(32:34):
flight model and flightcharacteristics of everything to
be more, I think, like elitedangerous, which is what it
sounds like to me, having flightmodes.
But, you know, when I heard thatwe were getting flight modes,
all I really heard was that Ihad to add another button,
another key bind to my joystickthat already doesn't have enough

(32:55):
buttons.

Sir Gene (32:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, that's definitely the case.
And I, I don't know, but anyway.

Defango (33:01):
then I look at my keyboard and then I think, okay,
so what button and this, whatbutton on this c of buttons am I
going to have to press to dothat?
How am I gonna work that into myplaying

Sir Gene (33:11):
I just grabbed a, a huge set of icons for the stream
deck for star citizen to be ableto use the stream deck as
controls.

Defango (33:22):
Oh, nice.

Sir Gene (33:24):
Yeah, I think that's kind of neat.
I mean, it's not hugelydifferent than the keyboard.
It's just on the keyboard.
You have to memorize all thiscrap on the stream deck.
There's an actual picture ofgear up or whatever.
So that you can hit the buttonthat looks like what you're
trying to do.
But obviously the, the, as muchas possible, I try to keep on
the joysticks themselves and Irun a dualt sticks setup, so

(33:46):
I've, I think I'm using everysingle button I have, but, but
it's

Defango (33:52):
button than I do.

Sir Gene (33:54):
oh, I'm sure I do.
Yeah, I've got two of the thethe two VK B sticks.
They're new ones that just cameout and

Defango (34:02):
get.

Sir Gene (34:03):
yeah, man, I love these things.
I got both of'em have a 40, 45degree angle in them.
I

Defango (34:08):
you got the weird thing.

Sir Gene (34:10):
well, it, it looks unusual, but it's so much more
comfortable.
Like my, my wrists don't gettired anymore.

Defango (34:18):
Yeah.
See that was one thing that Iwant reason I wanted to get is
cuz I have a wrist injury Idon't want to do it.
And that's the other thing is Ihaven't been playing a lot of
star citizen because part of mehaving to do all that stuff like
it, it really does exasperate mywrist.
Interesting.
Every time that I twist the

Sir Gene (34:36):
Mm-hmm.
Well, and this is, so I wouldhighly recommend you do the same
thing I did then and get thebent, the 45 degree angle ones,
because then you're not twistingleft to right.
You're twisting forward and backjust like riding a motorcycle.
And that motion, I think is morenatural cuz you're not, your

(34:56):
wrist is not having your wristin a position that normal
joysticks are up and down is nota normal position for your
wrist.
If you just loosen up your,your, your hands and you kind of
shake out your, your wrists and,and hands and stuff.
They don't go into the positionof a joystick.
They naturally fall in theposition where your hands are
flat on the table.

(35:18):
And that's a, that's a morerelaxing position to be in.
But anyway, I didn't wanna justtalk about games especially
games.
You're not really playing awhole lot anymore.
So if people didn't hear youroriginal appearance on this
podcast give us a littlebackground about yourself.

Defango (35:34):
Well, I'm an internet professional who's been through
a lot of different things.
I used to perform with a improvcomedy group called The Jive
Joint at many music festivalsacross the country.
And I also was running a YouTubechannel where I would talk about
conspiracies and other types ofinternet things that were

(35:57):
happening.
And I was also behind QAN onconspiracy theory to the point
where I amassed a group ofindividuals to basically get it
started, and then it had morphedinto something that even I don't
recognize.

Sir Gene (36:13):
Mm-hmm.

Defango (36:14):
So, you know, like that's, I guess, is a TLDR on
who I am and what I.

Sir Gene (36:18):
Yeah.
And you've done other stuff too,like obviously you've got a, a
tech background you've doneplenty of it and coding stuff
but you also worked as a chef.

Defango (36:29):
Yeah, I worked as a chef.
Oh, I mean, I went to culinaryschool so I could learn how to
cook, but I worked as a chef fora couple of years, did some
culinary with some chefs atLadon Blue College of Culinary
Arts.

Sir Gene (36:40):
Mm-hmm.

Defango (36:41):
few like food network competitions with those guys.
And you know, like that wasduring my time when I felt like
I needed to get out of computersbecause I had gotten too much
heat because, you know, I was ahuge online pirate back in the
day.

Sir Gene (36:56):
Mm-hmm.

Defango (36:57):
you know, I can't say I never really didn't get caught,
but, you know, I didn't reallydo anything that was supposedly
gonna get me into any trouble.
So

Sir Gene (37:07):
Mm-hmm.

Defango (37:08):
I just made sure to keep my head, I just made sure
to keep my nose clean nowadays,

Sir Gene (37:13):
Well, that's a good policy.
Yeah.
No, that's I think definitely agood policy, but yeah.
You've, you've not been astranger to a lot of the
discussions about conspiracytheories out there, and, and
this year has been a just anavalanche of conspiracies being
proven to be true.

Defango (37:34):
Yeah, everything that I was saying like four or five
years ago started is more andmore coming true every, becoming
true, every single day.
And I just laugh because itsucks.
You know, I've gotten censoredfor my viewpoints and
ideologies, and I'm consideredto be what's called the super
forecaster.
So, there's people out therethat forecast the future on

(37:56):
things, and I did a competitionwhere I went up against them and
I beat all of them to the pointwhere I have no I'm not, it's,
I'm not an expert in thesefields.
I have no, you know, idea wherehalf of this stuff come from,
but, you know, I couldaccurately predict a future on
things to a level that's so muchhigher than a regular

(38:18):
forecaster.
And I mean, they ha they call itsuper forecasting.
And I'm part of like a verysmall group of people that can
make very, very accurate futurepredictions based on, you know,
just simple information online.
And to me, it's just a normalthing that I do.
I don't

Sir Gene (38:33):
Mm-hmm.

Defango (38:34):
you know, I never thought it was a big deal that,
you know, I was always rightabout certain things, but now
it's starting to be even morestrange because it's like, I was
right back then about it, but Igot censored for it.

Sir Gene (38:46):
Mm-hmm.

Defango (38:46):
now, and then all of a sudden people are saying the
same thing, but.
Now it's like super biginformation that nobody's ever
talked about before.
And I'm just kind of sitting inthe back going, well, actually
that's not true, but you knowwhat Fme, you know, screw me.

Sir Gene (39:03):
So were you able to predict the downfall of Bitcoin
and take advantage of the pricedrops?

Defango (39:08):
No, I don't buy or trade or sell in
cryptocurrencies.
I've always thought that that'slike a bad move.
I got, I got 27 Bitcoin stolenoff of Mountain GOs, whether
that thing got hacked.
And back then I learned mylesson about like putting my
money on other people'sexchanges.
So like, I don't really trade atall.

(39:29):
Like I've mined all of thecrypto that I have and I've
really not bought that muchperiod since then.
So it's like, you know, I wasone of the original 12 people
that was mining Bitcoin, so thatlike in 2009 for the entire
year, there was a total of 12people mining.
And, you know, put that intoperspective is nowadays there's

(39:52):
still not many more than that,that are still running the
network.
It's just a, you know, smallgroup of individuals that
basically keep the whole thingrunning.
But you know, like I've been insince then and that's why, you
know, I've stayed out of that.
So, like I've been tellingpeople for the last couple of
years that, you know, anyincreases to the prices of
Bitcoin is all just basicallyinflated.

(40:13):
Value.
If you're getting in now, ifyou're buying in now, whatever,
you're just making a mistake.
And some people listened to meand followed me on that and
other people didn't.
You know, like there was acutoff on in my area, I think it
was in the middle of 2017, whenI was like, well, basically this
is your last chance to get in tomake money.

(40:34):
If your only goal is to just getinto Bitcoin, make a shit load
of money and get out.
And I was like, outside of this,you know, for the next couple of
years it's gonna be bad.
And sure there was people that Iknew that had made money off of
it, and then there was morepeople that I told to sell when
it was at its peak.
And I was like, yo, this is it.

(40:54):
You know, if you got Bitcoin,you know right now this is, and
you're wanting to make money,you sell it down unless you're
like me and then you just holdonto it because you know, like
my Bitcoin, sure, you know, itwould've been a couple million
dollars, but it's not real tome, number one.
Number two, there's no way thatI'm going to cash that out

(41:15):
through Coinbase or somethinglike that in order to make it
real.
And three, like it's aretirement plan for a reason.
You don't cash out yourretirement plan 30 years before
you retire.

Sir Gene (41:30):
sure, sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, that I, I think that makes alot of sense, and I've said it
similar, if not identicalthings.
It's that I, I've always lookedat the Bitcoin, well, initially
when I mined Bitcoin and I wasmining probably around 2011 or
so what I discovered is itwasn't worth the electricity
that I was putting into themachine.

(41:51):
So it didn't prove to be aparticularly good experiment for
me.
And I certainly didn't have anyforesight into how much it would
eventually be worth.
So I just stopped mining cuz itwas like, well, this ain't worth
it.
But

Defango (42:03):
people did.

Sir Gene (42:03):
yeah, but once it, it kind of got over the let's say
the probably a thousand dollarsmark once it got over a thousand
bucks, a Bitcoin mon, from thatpoint on, my take on it was it's
way too erratic and chaotic totry and use it as an actual
currency.
But there might be a good playhere just from a accumulation

(42:27):
standpoint.
And if all you do is, you know,twice a month you buy a hundred
bucks worth of Bitcoin atwhatever price it is, with the
plan of not touching it formany, many years, it's probably
not a bad thing to do.
And, you know, don't, don't buyit to sell it a week later.
And like some people made goodmoney, but those same people

(42:50):
quite often lost all the gainsthey had a month later.
you

Defango (42:54):
Yeah.
Well, they lose all their gainssimply by cashing it out.
So, oh, they're Bitcoin.
Goes for being worth a hundreddollars to being worth$200.
So they go cash out thedividends, not realizing that
the cash out itself is likeeating into their profit.
Sometimes it's more than theirprofit.
So I, I get that, you know,that's why when I started doing

(43:16):
stuff like I ran a Altcoinwebsite where I would talk about
all of the different, all coinsthat were out there and
basically I wasn't trying topromote them.
I was trying to like, you know,show them to people and say,
Hey, look at the next scam.
And it wasn't until my businesspartner and that started
actually accepting coins andstuff from these like people for
promotion.

(43:36):
And, and when I got out of it,cuz I was like, well yeah, I'm
not accepting money for paidpromotion.
Like that's totally theantithesis of antithesis of what
we're doing here.
You know, we're supposed to betelling people about all of
these all points so that we cancome back later and make fun of
them when, you know, they robpull us or they do this or they
do that.

(43:56):
And like, I've been huge on theanti exchange policy for, you
know, since I got my ba some ofmy Bitcoin stolen at least,
like, you know, what I thoughtwas a small amount is now worth,
you know, lots and lots and lotsof money.
But I even still to this daylook at what happened then and

(44:17):
apply it to now, you know, withthe FTX stuff, with what's
happening.
Excelsius finance, I mean allof.
Huge exchanges are basically thesame Ponzi scheme over and over
and over again.
They're always pointing fingersat each other and saying, oh,
they're worse than ira.
We are, but like, I mean,they're basically all the same.

(44:38):
They're all doing the samething.
I mean, how many exchanges havegone

Sir Gene (44:41):
the, the key thing is that nobody should be storing
any Bitcoin in any of theseplaces.
If you're buying'em through anexchange, just get'em out of
there as quickly as possible.
And if you're selling, if youwant to convert'em to other, you
know, between the differentcryptos or you want to cash out
again, just have that onetransaction and then you're done

(45:02):
with that.
Don't leave anything at theexchange, cuz that's where they
screw you,

Defango (45:07):
Yep.
That's how it always happens.
You know, the only one out therethat's even safe for you to have
up to a certain amount of moneyon, I believe is Coinbase, just
because they're the only oneswith the F D I C, you know,
insurance.
Right.
So you could put up to, I thinkit's a hundred thousand dollars
into there and have a peace ofmind that, you know, you, you're

(45:29):
probably gonna get your moneyback if anything happens.
But for any other exchange outthere, that's just simply not
the case.
And sure, there's people thatwanted to trade and arbitrage
and all of this stuff, and Itried that at one point and.
I didn't, you know, like I justthought it was dumb.
Like I was like, this is justdumb in my opinion.

(45:50):
But, you know, I did spend a lotof time, you know, exploring
NFTs and you know, like, that tome was when the NFTs blew up.
It was two years after I hadalready gone through NFTs and
shown people that, you know, 80%of the different games slash you
know, projects that were outthere were basically just rug
bull scams and you know, likeall that, all of this bad stuff

(46:15):
happened and this little tinychamber where not very many
people were.
And then it all happened againwhen the NFTs went big.
And, you know, this is more methrowing shade towards Ethereum.
But, you know, Ethereum's beenprobably the biggest scam
projects in the cryptocurrencyspace that still somehow seems

(46:35):
to survive

Sir Gene (46:36):
Mm-hmm.

Defango (46:37):
besides itself.

Sir Gene (46:38):
Yeah.
It's still trading over athousand right now.

Defango (46:41):
Yeah, well they just switched over to proof of stake.
Right.
And everybody said that that wasgonna be a big move.
It was gonna change things.
But essentially all the proof ofstake move did was centralized
all of the mining to very, verypowerful miners that have the
10,000 e that it was required tostake, you know, their system so

(47:03):
that they can actually earn.
So ultimately all it really didwas make the network way less
robust.
Way more centralized.
And it took away that one thingthat made a theory of cool,
which is the fact that anybodycould make it or anybody could
be a part of the network.
Now it's only certain peoplethat are gonna be a part of the

(47:25):
network.
And from what I could seealready is that, you know, like
they said that it was supposedto increase the speed of the
network, but it's literally seenno increase in speed whatsoever
across the board.
And I mean, Ethereum isvaporware because it doesn't
work in the way that it'sdescribed.

(47:45):
I mean, they say that you canmake these games and all this
really cool stuff, but afterover 10 years, basically at all,
it amounts to our JPEG game.
So they can show you a picture,they can make this picture and
this other picture mixthemselves together and create a
new picture.
And then basically that's about,that's about the short and

(48:07):
skinny of everything that youcould do with it.
You know, like I hear peopletalk about voting or, oh, we're
gonna have like digital deedsfor your house, yet nobody has
actually created it.
Or there's been a bunch ofcompanies that said that they
were gonna create something andthen they all of a sudden
disappear on the wayside isbecause, you know, four to five

(48:29):
months inside of theirdevelopment cycle, they just
finally realize outright.
Yeah, this is never gonna workon this network.
So then they go look at Solanaor another Ethereum clone that
works a bit better, but stillsuffers that, you know, same
issue.

(48:50):
And I mean, honestly, if SatoshiNakamoto was around right now,
I'm pretty sure that he would belike, well, you do realize that
you can create NFTs withBitcoin, right?
Like you can upload files to theBitcoin blockchain and then you
can charge people throughBitcoin for the download of said
files.
Like you do realize that that'sa thing that you can do.

(49:12):
And it's because it wasn'tdirectly stated in the white
paper that most people aren'teven aware that this is a
possibility.
So it's like

Sir Gene (49:22):
Yeah.

Defango (49:23):
is just, it's a worst

Sir Gene (49:25):
th there were, you know, there was already a
message that was enclosed, likeright in the white paper where
they d discussed how thisblockchain's gonna function.
So the, the groundwork is laidout.

Defango (49:43):
yeah, it was laid out in the white paper, like whoever
wrote the white paper knewenough about what was going on
with Bitcoin to put it outthere.
But the white paper only reallydiscusses like very specific
things about Bitcoin.
There was a lot of other stuff.
That were a part of it thatdidn't make it into the white
paper.
Namely the uploading and likeremoving of files like that was

(50:06):
something that it actually tooka couple of years for Shashi
Nakamoto to upload the fileuploader itself.
So like that was something thathe kept in his back pocket for a
few years before he sneakilyuploaded it to the blockchain.
And then like some people werelike, what is this thing Shashi

(50:26):
downloader, what is this for?
And then that's when peoplestarted figuring out that on top
of, you know, makingtransactions and sending
messages on the network, youcould actually also upload files
and things, which is strange.
And, you know, just a anecdotalpieces of evidence if you go to
the actual block where Satoshiuploaded the Satoshi Uploader,

(50:46):
there's a lot of other reallyinteresting things that were
uploaded with that namely linkslots and lots of links that go
to like CP Jailbait, that sortof things like whoever Shashi
Nakamoto was uploaded, theShashi Uploader as well as a
bunch of links to like, youknow, exploitation material in

(51:08):
the very same post.
And it was Shashi was, it wasShashi Nakamoto that actually
did it cuz you could trace backlike the actual wallet that did
all the uploading because everyfile that's uploaded is
connected to the address thatthe uploader used to put it in.

Sir Gene (51:26):
Yep.

Defango (51:27):
I mean, you can see that, you know, Shashi, Dako
Moto was into some other morestrange things, and this is
stuff that nobody even talksabout.
People talk about thedownloader, but they don't talk
about all the extra stuff.
And then there's the thing thaton the Bitcoin blockchain, there
is actually CP uploaded to theblockchain and image form.
And I think somebody attemptedto upload a video at one point,

(51:50):
but it's still there on thechain.
And I mean, some people thoughtit was some other rando that did
it, but I mean, according to theblockchain analytics, it was
Chati himself.
So you know, like there's a lotmore to I think, chati than
people cared to

Sir Gene (52:06):
Well, there maybe there's a reason the guy wanted
to remain anonymous, right?

Defango (52:10):
Yeah, you know, there's a reason he wanted to remain
anonymous.
He didn't want people knowingwhat he was up to.
But you know, it was soon afterthat, you know, when Satoshi
finally disappeared.
A lot of people don't rememberthat around that time.
It was because people who werediscovering this sort of thing,
they were discovering thesethings.
So like it was time for Satoshito basically just bow out at

(52:32):
that point.

Sir Gene (52:33):
Yeah.
Maybe Satoshi's Epstein.

Defango (52:36):
yeah, maybe Satoshi is Epstein.
Nobody, I don't

Sir Gene (52:38):
Yeah.
I mean, he is a banking genius,apparently.

Defango (52:41):
yeah, he was a banking genius.
He knew a lot about money.
And I mean, for all intensivespurposes, The Bahamas has been
the cryptocurrency hub for avery, very long time.

Sir Gene (52:51):
for sure.

Defango (52:52):
if you.
Look back at some of the biggernames that they still have out
there.
Like there's that one guy thatwas in that movie, an Open
secret from Gabe Hoffman whatwas his name?
He was a child actor that, youknow, was working with another
like director, Brian Singer.
And they had like some deadentertainment company where they
were like the imp pedosbasically.

(53:14):
And that was part of the reasonwhen, what's his face?
I can't remember his name.
David Brock Pierce, that's whathis name is.
Brock Pierce, you know, went toThe Bahamas.
Like they got raided by the copsand they had all kinds of
exploitation materials and otherthings that were there.
So, you know, that's a big thingin the Bitcoin space is that,
you know, Shi Nakamoto was morethan likely probably a pedo

(53:38):
actually.
Like, and one of his mainideologies.

Sir Gene (53:42):
Bitcoin was created for pets to be able to buy
pedophilia from each other?

Defango (53:47):
Yes.
That seems to be one of the mainthings.
And I mean, this isn't somethingthat, you know, I've just
developed and made up on my own.
I mean, the evidence is allthere.
You know, like I was one of thefirst 12 people that was on it
mining it, and I had heard aboutit through a cyberpunk cipher
punk slash Ninja video pirateforum.
And, you know, we werediscussing it before it even

(54:10):
went out, like over the wire onthis cyberpunk email list.
So like we were aware of whothis guy was or we were aware of
what he was up to.
I mean, he used to post on thatwebsite a lot.
He used to post on that websitea lot.
But like the same links that hewould post over on Bitcoin talk
were the same kind of stuff thathe was posting over in our area.

(54:33):
And I mean, when, once you getinto this idea that, you know,
like Shashi Makumoto was more ofa criminal mind than he was
something else, than, you know,a lot of this stuff that he did
back in the day makes a lot moresense.
You know, uploading a cp, youknow, all these different dudes
that are all into CP thatdecided to become Bitcoin

(54:55):
evangelists and things of thatnature.
That's the scary stuff that Ithink some people have just

Sir Gene (55:02):
But it, it does make some sense because it sure seems
like people that are into CPtend to be rich and they would
want a way of encrypting anykinda connections between
themselves and be able totransfer, whether it was money
or something else in a way thatkind of kept kept them off of

(55:24):
the normal network.
So, it, it makes logical sense.

Defango (55:27):
Yeah, it's very logical.
And I mean even more so, therewas fluffy.
There's the guy that createdManero.
Well, he's not the creator, he'snot the writer of the paper and
stuff.
He says that he's not the guythat created it, but at this
point you'd have to be a fuckingmoron.
Not to, you know, read betweenlines.
But Mr.
Fluffy created Manero because hewanted a private ledger.

(55:50):
Cause you know, Bitcoin's apublic ledger.
Sure.
You know, all the richmotherfuckers, as long as nobody
knows that that's your Bitcoinaddress, it's really hard for
them to use chain analytics tofigure out that it's your
address.
Unless you've fucked upsomewhere.
Sometimes sense yourself somemoney into some public thing
that they've seen that is yours.
There's no way for them tofigure that shit out.

(56:11):
So a lot of that stuff is movedover into the more privacy
oriented currencies like Zcashand Manero specifically.
Like they're still around,people are still using those and
those are truly private, right?
Like that's, we're all of thisideology from the original
version of Bitcoin went to.
And I'm fine with that becauseBitcoin was a test.

(56:33):
It was a test to see if thenetwork would operate, if it
would work.
You know, it was not designed tobe the end all, be all.
It was not designed to be the.
Last one, it was designed to bethe test so that in the future,
and I'm talking like 20, 30years, when the chain is
completely done, then Iguarantee you that Shashi

(56:56):
Nakamoto character will be backwith something new.
And it's gonna have a lot ofthings because I mean, we live
in a world where it takes 10years for people to even start
warming up to an idea that isbrand new.
Okay.
You know, like how long did ittake people to warm up to
computers?

Sir Gene (57:15):
Yep.

Defango (57:16):
You know, once you had the in-home computer and you
know, anybody could buy anin-home computer, it still took
10 years for people in thenineties to get with the times
and start making it an actualphysical thing that everybody
needed to have.
And now we're in the 2020s, nothaving a cell phone is like
unheard of.
Right.

(57:36):
You know, you need that foreverything.

Sir Gene (57:40):
Yeah.
It's, and it's annoying too.
I'll tell you, I, I ran intothis just recently where, I was
trying to log into, let meremember what it was.
I was logging, oh, I was tryingto log into a, a Google Voice
number that I have just like,you know, for miscellaneous
reasons, let's say.

(58:01):
And so I don't use it veryoften.
It's, it's rarely used, but it'sstill out there.
And so I was trying to log inand Google said you know, you're
haven't logged in in a longtime, so we need to verify your
identity.
So you need to authorize thislogin through YouTube on your

(58:21):
cell phone.
And I was logging in from myiPad, and it's like, there was
no other option.
It was the only way to get intothis account, into this Google
Voice was by going into YouTubeon my phone and then clicking

(58:42):
the authorized button.

Defango (58:44):
Mm-hmm.
this is weird, right?

Sir Gene (58:46):
the, it's, it's, first of all, it's strange that they
would use YouTube as an oth app,right?
That's just kinda weird, butokay, whatever.
They figured it's installed inevery phone, so it's, it's
probably the most commonlyinstalled app.
So they.
They've decided to use it, butalso there was no way to do it
without having your phone.
What if I would've lost myphone?

(59:07):
That means I can't log in.
And then the whole reason I waslogging in on my iPad was
because I was upstairs and myfucking phone was downstairs and
I'm a lazy fucker.
And so consequently, it's kindof like, you know, I wouldn't
have been trying to log intothat Google voice on an iPad.

(59:27):
If I had the phone on me, Iwould've just logged in on the
phone.
So making me then go downstairsand grab the phone just to be
able to log in upstairs on adifferent device defeats the
whole point of being able to login on multiple devices.
Cuz if, if their assumption is,well you always have your phone
on you, well, it might be in thehouse doesn't mean it's within,

(59:49):
you know, a few feet of me couldbe in a whole different part of
the house than I am.
I might have a huge house.
Who the hell knows?
You know?
So it, it's just, they clearlytake it for granted that
everybody is going to have theirphone active and working within
a few feet away from them.

(01:00:10):
Cuz that's what they want.
They wanna be able to track yourlocation all the time.

Defango (01:00:14):
Mm-hmm.
and they want to be able to knowwhere you are, what you're doing
at any point in time.
I mean, I've had the same issuewith my iPad as well, where I'm
like trying to log into one andthe other one.
But it's worse when you'vealready been logged in and
you're just like, this is adevice that I've already used,
and you're making me go click onsomething in another spot.

(01:00:36):
I mean, it's ridiculous.
Like imagine losing your Googleaccount nowadays.
That's like a hard thing.
Like you change your, you changeyour phone number.
You are screwed.
It's just like that with Appletoo,

Sir Gene (01:00:48):
Yep.
Totally.

Defango (01:00:50):
I worked for Apple in their support department taking
phone calls from people that,you know, had problems with
iPhones and their Mac and shit,like, swear to God, the number
one thing that sucked to helpout with is, was, was somebody
would be like, oh, I'm trying tolog into my account.
And I'm like, oh cool.
So what kind of changes thishave you made?

(01:01:10):
Oh, my phone got stolen, so Ihad to get a new one, but I'm
trying to log in, but it's notsending me the text message.
And I'm like, oh, okay, cool,cool, cool.
I can help you out with that.
So what's, what's the numberit's sending you to?
Oh, it's my old phone number.
I came into the store and got anew phone, but I got a new
number too because it wascheaper.

(01:01:31):
And then I'm like, well,unfortunately you were not going
to be able to access your Appleaccount ever again.
And then people would be like,what?
And I'd be like, yeah, since youchanged your phone number, the
phone number is the only way foryou to get back into the
account.
So you don't own that phonenumber anymore.
So that text message is going tothat, that old number that you

(01:01:51):
no longer own.
So there's nothing that we coulddo for you.
And I mean, people would bepissed about this, but it their
own fucking fault because theydidn't seem to understand the
very simple way that, you know,their devices worked.
But that's like a thing thatconsistently happens.
And yes, there's still a way ofgetting your account back, but
it takes.

Sir Gene (01:02:11):
yeah.
Well, and the, there are moreand more apps that now will
require you to put in a phonenumber and they just won't work
without one.
And they don't like using Googlenumbers.
They'll, they'll only use anactual carrier number.
It's like, well, what makes, doyou think that I even have a
phone?
I might not have a phone.

(01:02:31):
Like, that's a crazy assumptionto make.
And I know the reason they'reasking is because they're just
trying to tie an email addressto a phone number to have a more
valuable marketing profile.

Defango (01:02:43):
Mm-hmm.
it's also that they do for bots,like, I've seen the login flows
that certain of these websitesuse and whenever it's got a
phone number, like they'reautomatically taking whatever
you type in and searching itagainst the database.
And if they detect that it's aGoogle Voice or any other
non-carriers style number,they're just gonna block you

(01:03:07):
from being able to connectpretty much.
Period.
And I mean, that's part of them,that's the way that they look
at, you know, trying to get ridof bots.
But you're, you're right, whenit's really them just trying to
make sure that they have the,the most verified information on
you, because I mean, your money,

Sir Gene (01:03:23):
no, a, a profile with a phone number is worth a lot
more if you're marketing it thana profile without a phone number

Defango (01:03:31):
Mm-hmm.
That's right.
And I mean, that's whatTwitter's going to too.
Well, I mean, they were therefor a long time.
I mean, Twitter now owned byElon Musk has had huge changes.
It, it, it seemingly had hugechanges, but let's be frank and
honest about what's happened.
Elon Musk hasn't actuallychanged anything at Twitter.

(01:03:53):
All he did was just fire a bunchof people that were in places
that were needless to theoperation of Twitter.

Sir Gene (01:04:02):
Well, it's fired over 70% of the company at this
point,

Defango (01:04:07):
Yeah.

Sir Gene (01:04:07):
or I should say technically between firing and
people leaving of their ownaccord.
Over 70% of the company is nowgone, and yet Twitter is running
faster now.

Defango (01:04:18):
yeah, Twitter's running faster and is getting more
additions because they weren'tdoing anything before other than
spending most of their timecensoring people.
And that's a huge operation.
It takes lots of people to beable to

Sir Gene (01:04:31):
absolutely.
It's total Big Brother stuff.

Defango (01:04:34):
Mm-hmm.
And now we're looking at how theplatform is changing slightly,
but I mean, is it, it'seffectively still the same exact
place that it was before.
It's just that now differentpeople are getting silenced and
we're getting science before.

Sir Gene (01:04:49):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it totally is.
I just find great Chad andFreuder in being able to see
people that literally postedtweets saying it's a private
company, they can do what theywant.
Now saying Elon is doing thingsthat we don't like, and the
government needs to step in andcontrol it.

Defango (01:05:10):
Exactly.
It's because, you know, they hadcontrol and they want to get it
back.
Well, as soon as they hadcontrol and they want to get it
back.
And now, you know, Elon is incontrol, but, you know, is, is
anything really different?
And you know, I say no, youknow, I tried to apply to get my
account back.
Did I get my account back?
No.
But you know, did the Nazis gettheirs back?

(01:05:31):
Yep.
Did you know all the people thatactually did something bad get
their shit back?

Sir Gene (01:05:36):
Yeah.
Well, I, I didn't even bother.
I just signed up with a newaccount.

Defango (01:05:40):
yeah, I mean, I signed up with the new

Sir Gene (01:05:42):
yeah, mine's been gone for over two years, so it really
makes no difference to me if Igot my actual account back or
not.

Defango (01:05:49):
No, well, I mean, it may, the only difference it
would make to me is it wouldshow me that, you know, Twitter
and her Elon Musk actually istrying to do the right thing.
And

Sir Gene (01:05:58):
Mm-hmm.

Defango (01:05:58):
it's just like with Tesla, it's like, you know, like
they're not, he's trying to dothe right thing by like the
money, but like, is he trying todo the right thing by the users?
Absolutely not.

Sir Gene (01:06:09):
Yeah, there's plenty of things that I dislike about
Tesla cars.
There are plenty of things I, Ilike about'em as well, but
they're not really user friendlyand they're just, you know,
they're, they're built veryefficiently.
They're built com almostcompletely by robots.
But you know, when I get into aVolvo or a bmw, it just feels a

(01:06:34):
lot more like somebody thoughtthrough the placement of things
and how things interact a lotmore than the Tesla does.
And most of my friends driveTeslas, so it's kinda like I've
been in plenty of'em.
And I've got a Tesla truck onorder right now, but I, I
probably will end up selling myplace in line to somebody who

(01:06:55):
wants it more.

Defango (01:06:59):
That's funny.
Yeah.
Cuz those things are probablystill pretty far from coming
out, right?

Sir Gene (01:07:05):
Well, I don't know.
I mean, it's been, I think fouryears since they announced it,
and they're supposed to come outwithin two years.
So it's two years behind May.
Maybe it'll come out in 2023,maybe.
But I, I got first dayreservation, so, you know, it's
worth something.

Defango (01:07:22):
Yeah.
It's gotta be worth something.
You'll be able to make somemoney on that reservation folks
Show.

Sir Gene (01:07:28):
Yeah.
And you know, there, and, andlook, let's put it this way, if
I, if I had worked completelyfor the last couple of years
instead of part-time I may verywell have just gotten the Tesla
truck as well and just hadseveral cars and, and that
would've been the one that Idrove occasionally.
But right now, like having ahundred thousand dollars extra

(01:07:52):
vehicle is just not not reallysomething that, that's in my
bank account.

Defango (01:07:58):
Yeah.
I can barely afford to pay forthe Prius that I got, so, you
know, I know the feeling.

Sir Gene (01:08:01):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
No, it's yeah, and I, I'm veryhappy.
I have no car payments, likeI've paid off all my cars, so,

Defango (01:08:09):
I'll have mine paid off by the end of this new coming
year.

Sir Gene (01:08:13):
nice.
Yeah, it's a good feeling andit's something that obviously if
you can manage to save for acar, then buy it with cash
instead of getting a car, alease or, or a purchase where
you're paying interest, that'spreferable.
Now, occasionally, there havebeen plenty of times in the last
20, 30 years that I've beendriving.

(01:08:34):
Probably driving over 30 yearsat this point.
But occasionally you will getdeals where you can literally,
and I've had two of them so farwhere I've I've bought a car
with 0% interest.
Now, if you get a deal likethat, obviously take that.
There's no point in paying cashif you can get money over time
for free.
But if you have to pay intereston a car loan, it's better to

(01:08:56):
just wait until you can buy itfor cash.

Defango (01:09:02):
No, I agree with that.
I mean, I've never been into aspot where I could buy, you
know, a car like that outrightcash.
I mean, I have been, you know,Bitcoin wise, but you know, I
can't just go buy a car withBitcoin and every time I've
tried, it's always been ahassle.
So most of the time, you know,like I got, I decided to try to
actually, you know, like havecredit use it.

(01:09:22):
Cuz I've been one of thosepeople that's like literally
never had credit.
So like, I never had credit, Inever financed anything.
I always paid cash foreverything.
And you know, like that workedout fine for me until it didn't.
And I mean, I used to be the guythat would go on Craigslist.
I would buy a car, I would fixit up, I would flip it, I'd buy

(01:09:43):
another car.
But you know, for the longesttime I just had like the same
car.
And then I would buy new carsevery now and again.
Fix'em up and sell'em.
And like, I never had to worryabout it, but it was like over
the pandemic, used cars gotreally expensive.

Sir Gene (01:09:58):
they did.
Yeah.

Defango (01:10:00):
The, yeah, the options were shitty.
So I had to go get a freakingcar loan and it was my first one
and I got like crazy badinterest rates and whatever the
fuck.
But you know, I'm just doing itbecause I'm like, well I guess I
gotta have this stupid number.
Right.

Sir Gene (01:10:17):
Well,

Defango (01:10:17):
I went

Sir Gene (01:10:17):
having credit is definitely important.
It, but there's a differencebetween having credit and using
credit.
You know, if you can buildcredit basically by paying off
your bill every month with acredit card, and then you can do
the same thing with a car loan.
Incidentally, if you get a carloan with a shitty interest
rate, but you wanna still havethat show up on your credit
report instead of buying the carfor cash, you could go through

(01:10:41):
the process, get a car loan, andthen simply pay it off within a
few months.
And then you know, you just haveto be careful that you look at
the details in the loan.
Some loans have no prepaymentpenalties, meaning that if you
pay the loan early, then there'sno interest charged, obviously,
because you're not borrowing themoney anymore.

(01:11:02):
So if you do it three monthsafter you start the loan itself,
you literally just paid forthree months of interest and
that's it, and the whole thing.
But there are also some loansthat are, crappy loans that are
written where there's an earlyprepaid penalty where even if
you pay it early, they willstill charge you the interest as
though it took you the fullduration of the loan to pay.

(01:11:25):
The loan off and you wanna avoidthose at all costs.
But yeah, having credit is good.
That's a, that's an importantthing, but just cuz you have
credit doesn't mean you have touse it.
And that's a trap a lot ofpeople fall into.
I've certainly have in the pastas well, where, ooh, I've got
like$50,000 available to me,maybe I'll go out and spend
something.
Well, that's fine until all of asudden you, you don't have the

(01:11:49):
money to pay it back.

Defango (01:11:50):
Exactly.
Yeah.
That's why I've always stayedaway from loans or anything else
of that nature.
I mean, I have this one and I'mjust using it to build myself
up, but I mean, I built myselfup from like having like a six,
like a fucking five 20 to like asix 80 in like an air.

Sir Gene (01:12:07):
Mm-hmm.

Defango (01:12:09):
Like my, my low score was because I literally had
never had anything and I think Ihad like some collection shit
for a student loan and like thatshit dropped my shit for

Sir Gene (01:12:21):
oh, student loans will fuck you big time.
Yeah.
And, and that's something that Ithink a whole generation of
people is going through rightnow.
Because here's the thing thatpeople don't realize too, is
like when Joe Biden says youdon't have to pay your student
loan, or you, you like, deferyour student loan, or We're
gonna take 10 grand off yourstudent loan.
It doesn't actually meananything because the data is

(01:12:43):
being accumulated by privatecompanies about your paying
habits.
And those private companies arejust simply showing that you
weren't paying for these sixmonths.
It doesn't matter whether JoeBiden said that's okay or not,
he's not your parent, he's notthe guy deciding how your credit
rating is built.
And what we're gonna end up withis a whole generation of

(01:13:05):
Americans on by end up, meaningwe're already there right now is
a lot of people 30 and under,have really shitty credit, which
means they'll never be able tobuy a house.
And they're ha they're gonnaoverpay for car loans and any
other loan things.
They're gonna have credit cardswith 20% interest instead of
credit cards with 8% interest.

Defango (01:13:28):
No, you're explaining, you know, my situation pretty
much to a T and it's not like Icouldn't pay shit off.
I just chose not to have creditbecause I was like, well, if I
don't have the money for it, I'mnot gonna fucking buy it.
And I was going through tryingto buy a home myself, you know,
get a home loan, like I've owneda house before, but you know,

(01:13:49):
like I paid cash.
You know, me and my friendbought a house together and I
think the whole thing cost uslike 50 grand and I think I put
up 15, which is the most thatI've ever had, like cash liquid
for anything to put up.
And I mean, we bought the house,we fixed it up, he broke me off.
You know what?
He paid me back plus interestand it was, you know, like a

(01:14:12):
pretty good deal.
But my whole goal was like, atthat point, which was like fi
like 10 years ago, probably,maybe, no, actually longer than
that, to be honest, it wasprobably like 14, 15 years ago.
And I tried to take that and goput it down on a house, but it
was the recession 2008 and itjust, you know, didn't really
cut out.

(01:14:33):
So I've been trying to now, soI'm in the middle of saving to
pay off my car, which is, youknow, like the main thing.
And then after that, you know,I'm trying to get a house itself
and I mean, I don't have to getout of the nice little place
that I'm living in, it's justthat I'd rather, you know, own
the place as opposed to, youknow, keeping having to pay

(01:14:56):
somebody rent.
Right.
My ranch cheap though.

Sir Gene (01:14:59):
Yeah.
No, I, I hear you.
And I, I've I'm definitely kindof changing what I am looking
for in terms of space movingforward too, because, you know,
when I moved to Austin, I, Ilive just south of downtown.
I'm like two and a half milesfrom downtown.
And I was planning to, and Iactually did spend a lot of time

(01:15:19):
in downtown.
I just kinda like being in themiddle of, of things that are
happening, and also did a lot ofwater stuff.
I, I had a jet ski and a boat.
did a lot of stuff cause I'vealways enjoyed, like fishing or
just being around the water ingeneral.
And then with Covid, likeeverything just changed.

(01:15:40):
Like there was nothing happeningin downtown.
A lot of the bars, restaurantsclosed permanently.
And so the more I've beenthinking about it lately, it's
like, you know, what I reallywant is I don't need to be close
to downtown, to Austin or anyother city.
I I think I just wanna buy like40 acres or, or somewhere in

(01:16:00):
that neighborhood and just havea place away from everybody.
I don't, I don't need anybodyaround.
And with having starlink, yougot internet literally anywhere
in the world, certainly anywherein the us.
And of course if they havegigabit ethernet where where I'd
be looking at property, that'dbe even better.
But but there's a lot fewerlimitations on how far away from

(01:16:22):
civilization you are.
You got your own well for water,you're not dependent on anybody
else.
So the only thing you're reallykind of importing, as it were,
is electricity.
And getting a nice solar setupwith a Tesla wall would offset
the electricity needs by quite abit as well.
And I'm not like doing itbecause I give a shit about the
environment.

(01:16:43):
I think the environment isexactly what it should be and
always has been and always willbe regardless of what people do.
But I'm just thinking of it froma purely selfish standpoint.
If I can have solar panels thenmy electric bill might be, and
this is based on other people Iknow, might be in like 10 to$15
a month.
Whereas, because in Texas, youknow, it's, there's a lot of sun

(01:17:05):
here for about two thirds of theyear.
It's nonstop sunlight with norain, so it's not hard to make
electricity through solarpanels.
And then of course the Teslawall battery keeps that going
during the day.
Whereas like with no solar rightnow I'm paying around 300 bucks
a month for electricity.

Defango (01:17:23):
Yikes.

Sir Gene (01:17:25):
Well, we, you know, air conditioning is a huge part
of that.

Defango (01:17:29):
Well, yeah, cuz I mean it gets hot as balls.

Sir Gene (01:17:31):
over a hundred degrees almost every day.
Yeah.
So you end up paying for that.
But either way, like I just, Ithink my mentality of having to
be around people and at placeswhere there's stuff happening
and tons of restaurants and barsand activities, maybe I'm just
getting older.
I mean, that's a part, part ofit too is as I, as I get older,

(01:17:53):
maybe there's a lot less of ainterest in being around others
and more, more of that sort ofgrumpy old curmudgeon get off my
lawn kind of mentality to whereI just want to have my own place
and have a little gun range, beable to shoot guns right from
the back of the house.

Defango (01:18:12):
Yeah, that would be sick actually.

Sir Gene (01:18:14):
Mm-hmm.

Defango (01:18:15):
That would be sick.
That's what I want.

Sir Gene (01:18:18):
Yeah.
And, and one of my buddiesliterally did that.
Now he is, he's not super faraway from Austin.
But he, his gun range isliterally like 200 feet away
from his house.
And and I think he's got 50acres, if I remember correctly.
But it's, it's awesome.

(01:18:38):
Like whenever I drive out thereand I, I shoot on his range, it
just reinforces me, like, howcool would it be to just have
this in my own place.

Defango (01:18:50):
It would be really cool, honestly.
I mean, that, that's what I waslooking at when I got out here
cuz I haven't ever planned forthe future.
But when I moved out here tolike, Nevada, Carson City, you
know, up in the mountains thelady that I'm living with, that
I came out here to help out.
I mean, she had a family.
Her dad was like the propaneking.
He was, you know, the guy fromHank, king of the hill, Hank

(01:19:12):
Kills boss.
That's him.

Sir Gene (01:19:14):
Okay.

Defango (01:19:15):
so if you think about it, he owned every single
propane tank from basicallyOregon all the way down into
Arizona before AmeriGas everexisted.

Sir Gene (01:19:26):
Mm-hmm.

Defango (01:19:27):
So like when AmeriGas turned into, that's, they got
all their shit from himbasically.
And honestly, like, I came outhere because this lady just
needed help and she was like,you know, you seem like you
might be able to assist me.
So I came out here to help andthat's when I started to realize
that, you know, maybe I do wantdifferent things because I used
to be like you, I lived in thecity, you know, I was working in

(01:19:49):
bars and stuff.
So I was in Tempe, Arizona.
I was on Mill Avenue everysingle night because that's
where I worked.
I mean, I lived five minutesfrom where I worked, so I could
just walk home.
You know, so it was like adifferent lifestyle and I
enjoyed it.
For many years, I would be outthere par partying, throwing
parties promoting events makingfriends, whatever.

(01:20:12):
It was great.
But after a while, I think aftereverything that had happened,
like by like 2017, I was justlike, tired, man.
I was just tired because I feltlike I kept on doing more and
more cool stuff and getting moreand more big things happening.
But like the, the people I wasaround and the people I was with

(01:20:33):
were not moving forward to thesame things that I was.
Right.
So like they've taken over theentire scene now, you know, like
it was a scene that I built,right?
Like, I started at Scratch anddecided that, hey, you know,
this would be a cool place to doit.
This is where we're gonna do,and now I'm not even involved
whatsoever.

(01:20:55):
But like, you know, the, theentire space that they have with
they're doing stuff in nowwouldn't exist without, you
know, all the work that I putin.
And it was just, it blows meaway sometimes because like, I
was like begging for these guysto help me, right?
Like, I was begging for them tohelp me promote shows and to get
into this cause it was going tobe the next big thing.

(01:21:16):
And, you know, when it was metalking about it, it didn't
matter.
But the second that, you know,somebody else brings it up to
them, it all of a sudden becomeslike the biggest idea.
So it's like crazy to thinkthat, you know, like this is how
these things goes.
But you know, now that I'molder, I'm out here in the
mountains.
Sure.
I don't talk to half of thepeople that I used to, but you

(01:21:36):
know, I'm not really, you know,fucked up about it, I

Sir Gene (01:21:39):
Yeah.
So are you thinking it'ssticking around Nevada for a
while, or are you thinking aboutmoving somewhere else?

Defango (01:21:45):
Well, I might move somewhere else.
I mean, if I could findsomewhere cheaper, I mean,
honestly at this point I don'treally need to be anywhere.
Right.
So I'm trying to find some placewith some cheap property, you
know, where I can get like a dulike where I can get my me a
nice little mobile home.

Sir Gene (01:22:02):
Yep.

Defango (01:22:03):
You know, just go get a cheap mobile home somewhere.
Doesn't even have to be builtthis fucking decade or even, you
know, like maybe by theseventies, seventies, say
seventies.
But

Sir Gene (01:22:16):
well, they were built better in the seventies than
there today.

Defango (01:22:18):
exactly, that's what I'm saying.
You know, like some seventiesfreaking manufactured home will
do me just fine if it's like anacre.
Like that's, that's prettyconservative.
I would have to say to say anacre with a manufactured home is
not a Exactly a huge ask.
But then again, it is, man, youknow, like they want 150,000,

(01:22:40):
they want sometimes 250,300,000.
Like looking at my old, where Iused to live in Arizona, you
know, like I'm priced out of thehousing market almost for pretty
much everything.
Unless it's a piece of garbagelike

Sir Gene (01:22:54):
Dude, Austin, you can't, you can't touch anything
for under a million.

Defango (01:22:59):
Yeah.
Well that's how it is out heretoo, man.

Sir Gene (01:23:02):
it's like the minimum going rate these days.
And, and there's a lot of peoplemoving here because their
companies moved.
A lot of companies moved fromSan Francisco to Austin, and so
they're bringing all these$200,000 plus a year salary it
people with them.
And they're, they're literally,you know, paying six, eight

(01:23:23):
grand a month to live in the 700square foot apartment in
downtown.

Defango (01:23:28):
Which is crazy.

Sir Gene (01:23:29):
It's absolutely crazy.
I mean, it's like you've got,okay, your location, that's a
check mark.
You got that, but you have verylittle space.
You, you have neighbors crawlingup your ass and you're throwing
so much money away.
Yes, you're making a lot, butyou're also throwing that money
away because it's not yourproperty, you're just.

(01:23:51):
Paying rent on it.
But you know, it's convenient.
People, people do it.
They don't think about it andthey're like, well, I get 22
grand a month anyway, so what doI care if I spend six on, on my
apartment?

Defango (01:24:05):
Yeah, they don't really care at all cuz they're getting
it all from the bosses.

Sir Gene (01:24:09):
includes a lot of the Twitter people here and, and
yeah, I mean, it's everybodyhere.
Facebook, Twitter you know,Amazon's got a huge campus.
Apple's got a gigantic we're thesecond largest Apple campus in
the country.
Oracle moved their headquartershere.

Defango (01:24:23):
they wanted me to go there into

Sir Gene (01:24:25):
did they?
Yeah.

Defango (01:24:26):
the Apple thing because I was a work at home person.

Sir Gene (01:24:30):
Right.

Defango (01:24:30):
When I was working for them, like I kept on going off
book, but every time I went offbook, I did something that was
both amazing and then they hadno idea was possible on their
own shit.
So they wanted me to get moreinvolved with that, but I was
just like, fuck, now I'm notmoving to Texas I can't afford
that shit.

Sir Gene (01:24:49):
Texas is awesome though.
I love Texas.
So wherever I end up moving outof Austin is still gonna be
inside of Texas.
In fact, some people would say,I will be moving into Texas as
Austin is not part of Texas.

Defango (01:25:04):
Yeah.
That's like fucking, that'sDemocrat country or

Sir Gene (01:25:07):
Oh, big time.
Yeah.
It, that Austin is, is very,very blue.

Defango (01:25:12):
Yeah.
I

Sir Gene (01:25:13):
I don't, one of the things, I don't know if you
heard, cuz it's kind of more,more local off story, but the
legislation session that'scoming up is is extremely fed up
with the way that Austin's beenrun and they're actually putting
a bill into the statelegislature to disin incorporate
the city of Austin and basicallyturn Austin into the same thing

(01:25:35):
that Washington DC is, which isnot a city with a mayor and a
city council, but simply adistrict that is operated by the
state legislature.

Defango (01:25:46):
Yikes.

Sir Gene (01:25:47):
be hilarious if they can pull that off.
I would just be laughing my assoff.
It's like, yep, you guys blewit.
You fucked Austin up and now youdon't have a city anymore.

Defango (01:25:57):
Yep.
They, they might actually beable to do that.
I mean, when I was in Texas, itwas a few years ago, and I mean,
I had like a pretty big Texasguy.
Like I, my journey to Texasconsisted with hanging out with
egg bartowski who's like, Iguess a rich money made or
whatever, and, you know, go intothe, in Dallas to the bigs, like

(01:26:20):
what is the, what is the placethere where they have everything
that happens, it's like a bigsports arena or whatever, like
sitting in a box and thenmeeting the goddamn ag in Texas,
like Ken Ps and having likebreakfast with him after I had
just smoked a shit load of weedand I was just, you know, a
surreal experience.
Like Texas was a surrealexperience.

(01:26:42):
But I mean, it, it's, it'salways been off of the places
that I would actually considerto live because of their stance
on marijuana.
Like that's why I was part ofthe

Sir Gene (01:26:55):
Well, I, I'd say it's, it's a pretty soft stance.
I mean, it's still not legalhere, but it's also readily
available.

Defango (01:27:04):
Yeah.
I know it's readily available,but it's not legal.

Sir Gene (01:27:07):
No.

Defango (01:27:08):
if it's not legal, and if I could get pulled over and a
cop says, smoke, I could smellyour weed and give me a ticket
for it, then, you know, it'snot, it's not a viable zone.
Like in Arizona, I was part ofthe groups that fought to get
legalized

Sir Gene (01:27:22):
Mm-hmm.

Defango (01:27:23):
you know, I definitely worked with people in Nevada and
I even talked to people in Texasand that was one of the things
is that when I was in Texas,like I was talking to, you know,
the ag in Texas about that andhe was actually very supportive
of legalization and, you know,there was a strong chance that
it could have gotten done if theactivists that were there

(01:27:45):
would've gotten out of their ownway.
But like right now, like that'sthe big issue I think with
activism has always been a hugeissue for getting anything done.
Because when I got into, youknow, activism for weed, I
realized that I didn't wanna bean activist.
I actually just wanted to getsomething legalized.
So like, I was always focused.

(01:28:05):
Doing it in a way that madesense for legalization because
you know, like this has to befor business.
But then I was constantly comingup against these fucking idiots
or pine cones that were like, noman, it's a tree dude.
We need, we need to free thetree bro.
Me and mother earth man.
And you know, they'd always goto these very low hanging

(01:28:29):
arguments or for why, thereasoning why they wanted
something to be done.
And then I'd be like, guys, likeeverybody gets that.
We all got that.
We fucking got that 20 yearsago.
What we need to come up with isthe legal framework because we
have to give and take.
We can't just say thateverything's legal and nobody

(01:28:51):
gets arrested for anything cuzthen there wouldn't be any
fucking revenue.
We have to play the game.
If we don't play the game, it'snot gonna go there.
And that's just where it was inTexas, is that the legalization
game was basically this onegigantic super company that's
been working with all thelegalization efforts all across
the country.
And they were completely out ofTexas because they just didn't

(01:29:12):
see it as a go.
And the other side was basicallya bunch of like pothead
activists that just, you know,were never gonna get any real
laws done because they justrefused to even try to like put
something on a piece of paper.
Like they had no idea of theprocess that they actually
needed to go file.
And be like, yo, you guys can dothis.

(01:29:33):
You just need to write it down.
You need to file it.
And it, you know, like we couldget it done.
And it was just finding a groupof people in Texas, to me seems
just like a super fucking hardthing to do because the place is
so big, right?
It's so

Sir Gene (01:29:48):
Mm-hmm.
Oh, it's huge.
Yeah.

Defango (01:29:50):
like the amount of people are disparate.
Like how are you supposed toconnect all those different
groups of people from all thedifferent areas?
Like it'd be easy in Austin tofind people to get the le weed
legalization thing done, butgetting those Austin people to
the other areas and getting themto talk those people into it,

Sir Gene (01:30:08):
Yeah.
There's more and more citiesthat, that have passed
legislation to decriminalize itin the city.
So at least the local copsaren't gonna do anything about
it.
The state law is still on thebooks.
But you know, the state laws aremore enforced outside of cities
and in counties and I thinkthings will end up flipping
around on it.
The, the thing that I don'tthink any state can pass up is

(01:30:32):
they look at what the westernstates have done and how much
the taxation comes out of that.
It's it's just free money.
You know?
It's free money that right nowis going to Mexican cartels.

Defango (01:30:44):
Oh yeah.
And then they don't, they don'tsee, they see that, and it would
really stop the cartels.
But the thing is, is like whatit, with the way that the border
shit's going on right now, likeI feel like if.
Texas were to do some crazy shitlike legalize weed, like we
would literally be seeing borderclashes on the United States

(01:31:04):
border between the Mexicancartel and border patrol agents
and shit.
I think they would be straightup like a fucking war going on

Sir Gene (01:31:12):
Yeah.

Defango (01:31:13):
that's what the car that would piss off the cartels
to.

Sir Gene (01:31:15):
oh, it would totally piss off.
I mean, that's the irony is likethe Texas Law Enforcement
Association is literally on thesame side as the cartels on
this.

Defango (01:31:24):
mm-hmm.

Sir Gene (01:31:26):
Like they don't want marijuana legalized.
So why?
Why?
Because it creates less work forthe police.
That's such a stupid idea fornot legalizing it.
And I say that as somebodythat's not a user of marijuana,
and I, in fact, I've talkedabout it.
I'm not really.
Like, it doesn't do anything forme.
I have to have extremely highquantities of THC to feel

(01:31:47):
anything.
I, I have a very high tolerancefor thc and so it, it's, to me,
it's not anything I'm interestedin, but also it just seems
extremely inconsistent with alot of other things that we've
done.
And if we're gonna banmarijuana, then why the hell is

(01:32:09):
alcohol and tobacco allowed?

Defango (01:32:12):
Well, that's the thing is that they already tried to
ban alcohol and

Sir Gene (01:32:16):
They did.
They did, but that's what Imean.
It's like none of this shitshould be banned.
People ought to be able to dowhatever they want whatever they
want in their own homes.
The biggest thing is what youneed is you need laws against
people being under the influenceof anything, including
prescription medication, gettingon the highway and then hitting
other cars.
Like, that's the thing that Idon't want happening.

(01:32:39):
Whether somebody lights up ajoint in their own house,
honestly, who gives a shit?

Defango (01:32:44):
Yeah, I don't, I've never really cared about what
people do on their own time, butat the same time, there's all of
these accidents and things thathave happened over the years
that have changed my perceptionon that reality.
And I mean, hey, I've been oneof those guys that got a dui.
You know, I got a d Y at sixo'clock in the fucking morning.

Sir Gene (01:33:06):
Hmm.

Defango (01:33:06):
You know, I thought I was totally fine or whatever,
but apparently not.
You know, I blew just over, Iblew the legal limit basically.
And in Arizona, it's a zerotolerance state.
So, you know, I had to gothrough that whole entire SLM
meal and, you know, here Ithought, oh, I, you know,
stopped drinking last night,went to sleep, I'm gonna, you

(01:33:26):
know, sleep it off, everything'sfine.
And I was in for a very rudeawakening throughout all of
this.
And then, you know, like that'sonly changed.
That only changed like, you knowhow thehe I was about.
Things because, you know, like Isimply wasn't educated, I guess,
to the facts.
I figured, you know, like Ididn't drink that much, you

(01:33:47):
know, by the time I wake up inthe morning, I should be totally
fine.
And you know, I was just like,basically shit wrong.
And it cost me a lot, man.
Like that was an expensivemistake, you know, I had to
fucking couldn't drive and shit.
And like years later it'sexpunged and off of my record or
whatever, but it still stayswith me.
People can still see it andwhatnot.

(01:34:09):
It's like they, it's not pulledup anymore, but like the
evidence is still there, youknow, it's, it's all there.
And honestly, it changed the waythat I operated fully.
So like, you know, I changed theway my living situations to
accommodate for drinking andstuff of that nature.
That's part of the reason whenI, after I got outta college,

(01:34:31):
like I was living so close towhere I worked is because, you
know, like I didn't want to evenhave the ability, you know, I
wanted to make it so stupid todrive home or drive anywhere
drunk That.

Sir Gene (01:34:44):
Yep.

Defango (01:34:45):
And then on top of that, you know, I got really
lucky too, which is why I'venever paid for an Uber ride.
But like Uber had just barelystarted coming out.
And since I was in the techindustry before and people knew
I worked in bars, they werelike, Hey, you know, do you just
want to be a brand ambassador?
And you know, all you do is youpromote Uber.
So like they gave me cards.

(01:35:06):
I would literally just getpeople to download the app and
put it on their phone.
But like, I was constantly inbars, so like people were just
like, what the fuck?
I'd be like, Hey man, how areyou getting home tonight?
And you know, I would seesomebody drinking or I'd see
somebody talking about, youknow, like driving home drunk.
And I'd be like, Hey, how youget home?

(01:35:27):
And they'd be like, oh, well Iwas just planning on, you know,
driving home.
And I'd be like, how far do youlive?
And then they'd tell me, youknow, like X amount of miles and
I'd just hand them a black cardand I'd be like, I'm just like,
I don't want you to drive hometonight.
Here's$30.
You know, this'll basically payfor your ride

Sir Gene (01:35:44):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.

Defango (01:35:45):
There's, I was like, oh, you gotta do is download the
app and sign up, put your cardon it.
And I was like, and then youtype in this little promo code
and your first ride's on me.
And I was like, but I want youto take this car home.
And every time it would be likesome fucking nice ass town car
or like a big s u v and peoplewe're really into it.
And I got a lot of, I got a lotof people signed up.

(01:36:08):
But you know, like, to be frankis like, you know, I spent a lot
of money learning the DUI lessonon my end, but like the amount
of money that I made savingpeople from getting DUIs,
technically I didn't make themoney, but like I really never
had to pay for an Uber ride inall of these years that Uber's
existed because of all of thepromotional credits that

Sir Gene (01:36:32):
Right?
Yeah.
You got all the credits going.
Oh, that's

Defango (01:36:34):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it's like I, I was, I was inNew York, right?
And I took a ride from theairport to the middle of
fucking, you know, NYC didn'tpay a dime.
And I took that ride like threeor four times.
And like most people would bebitching at that.
And, you know, like I wasexperiencing what it would be
like to be one of those reallysuper rich people that just did

(01:36:57):
not give a fuck about what itcost them to get them right.
And it was a good feeling.
It was a good feeling.

Sir Gene (01:37:05):
Yeah.
No, that's awesome.
No, that, and that's aworthwhile way to do it because
you're probably saved a lot ofpeople, a lot of money and
headaches and potentially even.

Defango (01:37:15):
Yeah.
You know, my fuck up turns intohelping somebody else out.
And that's really all I've everwanted, right?
Like, all I wanted was to helpout other people, but at the
same time, you know, like, Iwish I was more educated.
I wish I didn't make, you know,certain stupid mistakes.
But overall, like, it's notabout the mistakes that you've

(01:37:36):
made, it's how you take thosemistakes and you like fix it for
the future.
Because I could be negativeabout it, but the reality is I
don't need to be anymore.
You know?
It was, it ended up being apositive thing,

Sir Gene (01:37:48):
Well, I, I think that's the right attitude to
have, and mistakes aren't theproblem.
Repetitive mistakes are theproblem.
If you make a mistake once and,and that makes you learn from it
to not make that mistake again.
And, and even better, help otherpeople not make that mistake,
which by the way is the mainreason that I've written the

(01:38:09):
books that I've written, is tohelp people not make mistakes
that either I've made or I'vewatched other people make.
It's really mistake avoidance.
So if you read a book and youactually take that advice, it's
gonna help you avoid mistakes.
And it's not just true of mybook.
That's kind of the goal of mostnon-fiction books in general.
Is there lessons that you shouldlearn, not from making your own

(01:38:32):
mistakes, but from reading aboutwhat other people have done.
so you can avoid those mistakes.
Believe me, there'll be plentyof other mistakes to make
yourself anyway.
So if you can avoid some othermistakes that people have made
by learning about'em that's justgonna make your life easier.

Defango (01:38:49):
Oh, agree.
Agree.
Yeah.
Mistakes are a thing that we allmake, but it's learning from
them that really makes you theking.
And it's cool, you know, likeI've been working on a book
about the Q situation because Isee it as a mistake,

Sir Gene (01:39:04):
Mm-hmm.

Defango (01:39:06):
I don't really, that's not true though.
I don't see it as a mistake.
I see it as a necessary, I thinkI see it as something that was
super necessary.
I think I saw something thatnobody else could see, and no,
that's not the right way ofputting it.
I saw something that very fewother people saw about a place.
And I kept on trying to tellpeople about it.

(01:39:28):
I would tell, I would showpeople how it operated, how it
worked, how, how it, you know,it, it went down and nobody was
listening.
Nobody was listening.
So I decided to get it done formyself.
And the only way I knew, and Iused all the stuff that I had
learned about the thing and madea new thing happen, and I
finally got people to care aboutwhat was going on.

(01:39:52):
Like, you know, it was always,it was always about Fortune
eight chan and the dark secretsof what's happening

Sir Gene (01:40:02):
Mm-hmm.

Defango (01:40:03):
these things go viral, like exposing the pipeline
basically

Sir Gene (01:40:08):
Mm-hmm.

Defango (01:40:09):
job, what I wanted to do.
And I think that ultimately wegot it done.
You know, we got rid of a chan,it's no longer around, it's now
a coon and it's a shadow of itsformer self, and I'm totally
fine and happy with that.
You know, my goal was to get ridof a chan and it got done.
But the thing is, is that nowthe internet is different, you

(01:40:31):
know,

Sir Gene (01:40:33):
in

Defango (01:40:34):
know, well, it's different in the fact that
censorship is way up.
All of these companies arestarting to take actions that
they would've never takenbefore.

Sir Gene (01:40:46):
Oh, sure.
Yeah,

Defango (01:40:48):
it's deleting servers, black hole, d n s, like.
That used to just be reservedfor the worst of the worst, like
that used to, they used to dothat to the pirates of the C P P
and actual

Sir Gene (01:41:01):
criminals, yeah.

Defango (01:41:03):
So me seeing that happening to actual, going from
happening to actual criminals,to it just happening to everyone
is crazy to me.
And I think that, you know, itneeded to happen, right?
Like the internet needed thisshock because there's been so
many insidious, like littlesecret organizations and things

(01:41:27):
that have cropped up over theinternet over the years that
have, you know, caused realharm.
Whether it's an cult like, oh,chink, you know, the ones that
did the Sarga attacks in fuckingJapan back in the day, that was
before the internet dog.

Sir Gene (01:41:42):
Yep.

Defango (01:41:42):
You know, think about that.
Like people were doing crazyshit and blowing shit up and
doing nuts stuff before theinternet.
And now that we have theinternet, the acceleration, you
know, before what used to take ayear or two now can be done in a
fucking week, sometimes even ina day.

(01:42:04):
And it's all associated to.
The individual that you'retargeting, right?
Because certain people getsucked up.
It's like you and Star Citizen,like me and you, we start
talking about Star Citizen.
You already wanted to play StarCitizen, you already wanted to
get in there, but you werelooking for somebody else who
already played it to like, youknow, give you the okay to get

(01:42:28):
into it, to help you justify it,right?
And then as soon as you get intoit, you know, here we are a year
later, you know, you're likesuper deep into the amount of
ships that you have.
You're making star citizenvideos and stuff.
And it's like an

Sir Gene (01:42:44):
Yep.

Defango (01:42:46):
If you didn't talk to me or if you would've only spent
time like, you know, with thetomato or

Sir Gene (01:42:52):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.

Defango (01:42:54):
still taken like a year for you to get shoved into that
pipeline, but it's because youwent to somebody like me, you
got into the pipeline faster.

Sir Gene (01:43:03):
Well, and I, I'll, yeah, I certainly, I like kind
of tongue in cheek.
There's a couple of people,you're one of'em that I like to
kind of blame from me gettinginto buying ships.
But realistically speaking,obviously it wasn't that.
It was, I think what it was likewith you and this other dude as
well is that both of you guyshad bought ships.

(01:43:25):
And it kind of opened my eyes tothis idea that, oh, well, you
know, people that I play withhave bought ships and it's not a
big deal.
It's like, because in a lot ofgames there's a very strong push
against the pay to win kind ofplayers.
And, and they're seen as beingkind of, you know, people that

(01:43:46):
have no skill and thereforethey're, they have to resort to
buying shit in the game.
And I don't think that's thecase in this game.
And you totally can earn yourway up along the way.
But it was more of like thepeople that I played with,
including you and a couple otherpeople you all had bought ships
for real money that were makingthe game play more fun.

(01:44:10):
And I think in some ways itdidn't change my mind, but it
probably accelerated a littlebit.
My My interest in doing thisexact same thing is like, oh,
well yeah, I guess if I couldjust go to this website and buy
this ship and it's gonna get methere right away, instead of
like playing a ship, I don'tlike for the next three months
to earn enough money in game tobuy the other ship.

(01:44:33):
This is like a quicker way to doit.
I've got the money to do it.
Yeah, why not?

Defango (01:44:39):
Yeah, makes sense.
And you know, you're older nowtoo.
I mean, if you were like a youngass kid with no fucking money,

Sir Gene (01:44:45):
Oh, I wouldn't be spending any money on this shit.

Defango (01:44:47):
you wouldn't be spending money.
Right.
Like I shouldn't have spent itas much money as I did on this
game as it was.
It's just that I had my creditcard on there for the
subscription thing and you know,and two, three, no, in five
years of subscription payments,I've made it to be in a
concierge player.
Right.

Sir Gene (01:45:06):
Well, yeah, that's 200 bucks a year, so that adds up.

Defango (01:45:08):
Yeah.
Adds up pretty quickly when youreally look, when you

Sir Gene (01:45:11):
Incidentally, I, I hope for a money savings
standpoint, you're buying theyearly subscriptions where you
get two months free

Defango (01:45:19):
oh no, no, no, no, no.
Pay it every month.
Like a like, like the fuckingscrub.
I am.

Sir Gene (01:45:27):
Well, right now is a good time to buy the yearly sub
because it's on discount not tomention the coupon that you get.
Oh, you did?
Okay.
Well that's, so that's

Defango (01:45:34):
might get another one, you know?
I might get another one.

Sir Gene (01:45:37):
Yeah, so e either do the yearly or or just don't do
'em and only like, you could doa one month here and there if
there's something interestingthat month,

Defango (01:45:46):
Yeah.
I haven't even logged into thatgame, so I'm gonna log in right
now.

Sir Gene (01:45:49):
okay, well to see that now I'm being a better influence
on you.

Defango (01:45:53):
Well, I mean, I figured I

Sir Gene (01:45:54):
how that works.

Defango (01:45:55):
look around and see what's up.

Sir Gene (01:45:57):
Well, you

Defango (01:45:58):
that's the thing is like, there's nothing that I've
missed, right?
Like I want to get into the P TU

Sir Gene (01:46:03):
yeah.
You could get into PT U and

Defango (01:46:05):
Oh wow.
I'm in prison.

Sir Gene (01:46:07):
Oh, are you really?
My

Defango (01:46:08):
Yes, I am still

Sir Gene (01:46:10):
in prison if you hadn't logged in in months,

Defango (01:46:12):
because the last time I logged out I was in.

Sir Gene (01:46:15):
but shouldn't have that time, like gone by and, oh,
I guess all, yeah, so you,

Defango (01:46:19):
weeks ago,

Sir Gene (01:46:20):
so, oh, okay.
Well, a couple of weeks.
That's a little

Defango (01:46:23):
I'm not li I'm not playing like every day, but like
I,

Sir Gene (01:46:27):
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you don't have any prisontime.
You just need to leave prison

Defango (01:46:32):
Yeah.
I'm just in prison.
Just,

Sir Gene (01:46:34):
And incidentally, did you see they fixed that that bug
where if you get into prison andwe're, I'm sure we've like lost
the audience at this point.
Prison.
What the hell are you talkingabout?
This is a video game.
In this video game.
They have a prison that you endup in, or jail, prison,
whatever.
If you do bad stuff in the gameand it's all part of the game
loop, it's just sort of like, ifyou're playing as a criminal,

(01:46:55):
there's a chance you'll end upin prison.
But but you used to be able tosneak in there.
With a crime stat.
And then by just simply leavingin the elevator, you got rid of
your crime stat.
And I remember you showing methat like a year ago.

Defango (01:47:09):
Yep.

Sir Gene (01:47:10):
May, maybe longer.
And they just fixed that in thislatest patch.
And then they credited theYouTuber citizen Kate for
finding this bug and telling himall about it.
I'm like, you gotta be shittingme.
Everybody was using this.
She's by nowhere near the firstperson that found this.
She's just the first person thatmade a big deal about it and got

(01:47:30):
'em change it.

Defango (01:47:31):
That's, that's horseshit because I literally
emailed

Sir Gene (01:47:37):
Yeah.
You reported.
Yeah.
You reported it.

Defango (01:47:39):
Well, I mean, I reported it in the B to actually
break into prison through likefading through the fucking
ground.

Sir Gene (01:47:45):
Yeah, I remember watching that as well.

Defango (01:47:47):
to go up through like that whole entire thing and then
we made like tickets for it.
They never did anything aboutit.
But you know, they go and theycreate citizen Kate for all this
stuff when I'm the one thatactually put it all out there

Sir Gene (01:48:00):
Yeah.
And like multiple people I'veplayed with have known about it
and done that stuff and, and putin reports like I, I, lately
I've been playing a lot withGrumpy and I've been kind of
guessing in his live streams aswell.
And you know, he's got, he'sshowed me a whole bunch of
reports that he's filled intothe uh, the what do you call it,

(01:48:20):
the bug council or whatever.
And talked with, like, includingvideos of all kinds of things
that are broken.
Nothing ever happens.
Most of his reports come back assaying that issue couldn't be
confirmed internally.
Like they couldn't replicate it.

Defango (01:48:38):
We

Sir Gene (01:48:39):
I was like, okay, well watch the fucking video.
What do you need to replicatethe bug?
If you just watch the video, youcan see what the bug does now go
into code and fix it.

Defango (01:48:47):
Yeah.
That, that, that's the

Sir Gene (01:48:48):
But then Citizen Kate does a video and is like, oh,
well thanks so much.
No one told us about this.
Now we fixed it.

Defango (01:48:55):
really.

Sir Gene (01:48:57):
it's just

Defango (01:48:58):
such horseshit, dude.
Like I've made stream afterstream

Sir Gene (01:49:02):
she is definitely the current, sort of like the, the
streamer slash YouTuber.
They're promoting big timebecause you got, you got a

Defango (01:49:11):
and that Gabby,

Sir Gene (01:49:13):
Yeah, yeah,

Defango (01:49:13):
I, I created that monster.
I fucking feel bad dude.
I, I completely, I ruin my starcitizen career as a streamer

Sir Gene (01:49:23):
Uhhuh,

Defango (01:49:24):
boosting that girl because like, I had spent six
fucking months every night,overnight building up the star
citizen community.
Over time I was like, up to 10,15, started getting up to like
30 people and I was like, sweetdude.
And one day I see a new personon the thing because I used to

(01:49:46):
just go host who was ever at thebottom of the list and be like,
just bless them up.
Because I was like, Hey.
And I saw Miss Gabby, so Ifucking boosted her up.
And then ever since that day,like my entire audience
disappeared.
They all just went over to herstuff and then like, it's like I
didn't even

Sir Gene (01:50:06):
Hmm.

Defango (01:50:07):
exist and I was just like, wow.
That's why I stopped streamingstar citizen is cuz I was just
like, dude, there's no way thatI'm going to have to, you know,
like there's no way that I cancompete with a young, cute girl.

Sir Gene (01:50:17):
no, she's not even that young or cute, but just
being female makes a hugedifference to all that stuff
because it's such a rarity, youknow?
Like there's just not that manywomen that play games at all,
and in the game as incomplete asstar citizen and with so little
non PVP stuff to do.

(01:50:38):
There's even fewer women.
So when you get a woman, likethe game, the, the, the company
itself is promoting the hell outof women players right now.

Defango (01:50:46):
Yeah.
Well that's what they've beendoing for a while now.
They want to have the ladies upthere like they, is it, it all
started with the Anna Demetriocharacter.
That

Sir Gene (01:50:56):
yeah, yeah.

Defango (01:50:56):
for me because like I saw what was happening to Cobra
TV

Sir Gene (01:51:01):
Mm-hmm.

Defango (01:51:01):
he was there and I was a part of his like crew for a
while.
I would show

Sir Gene (01:51:05):
I remember

Defango (01:51:05):
day, you know, I wasn't trying to be, you know, like
anything.
I was just there to be a solidperson for this guy because I
knew he used to watch my stuff.
So I was like, you know, I wantto support him.
So like I paid the money and Iwas there, but what I didn't
know was that they was like awhole entire fucking group of
people that disliked me.

(01:51:27):
And I think that they allthought that I was like anti-gay
or something like that, which iscompletely not the case.
I just don't give a shit aboutpeople's, you know, sexual
orientation.
I don't think your sexualorientation makes you who you
are and

Sir Gene (01:51:40):
Well, it's nobody's fucking business in the
beginning.
It's like people shouldn't betalking about that shit.
Do whatever you want behindclosed doors

Defango (01:51:47):
Exactly.
But you know, like they wouldalways be.

Sir Gene (01:51:49):
pornography.
Don't do that.

Defango (01:51:51):
Yeah, don't do that at all.
So like, these guys would alwaysbe making like gay, homophobic
and all kinds of latelyhomophobic comments and things,
and I would just be all like,inappropriate, right?
Like, like, you know, I'm, I'm agood Christian Catholic.
I'm fine that you guys butt fuckeach other or whatever.
You could do whatever you want.
Don't care.
Just don't fuck me, right?

(01:52:11):
And like, I just was like, okay,you know, that's fine.
You know, I was alwaysrespectful and kind.
One guy came out one time and Iwas just like, congratulations,
you know, like, and apparentlythey just didn't like it.
So like I noticed that when thisAnna Demetrio chick started
showing up, she was like a voiceactor for star

Sir Gene (01:52:31):
Right.

Defango (01:52:32):
and in the game and you know, like they were trying to
build her up, but she was likedoing the rounds and all of the
big things and overnight, youknow, she became a star Citizen
sensation and

Sir Gene (01:52:43):
And it makes no sense to me.
She's a wet rag personality onYouTube.
I don't enjoy watching somebodywho doesn't understand how the
game works.
And that's the biggest problemwith a lot of these sort of
pushed up to the topartificially personalities is
most of the time you watch'em isthem failing at things that

(01:53:05):
almost any other player knowshow to do.

Defango (01:53:07):
yeah.
Very well

Sir Gene (01:53:10):
And I like, that's not really fun for me,

Defango (01:53:13):
Yeah, it's not, I don't, it's not fun for me.
It's fun for other peoplethough.
I mean, you know,

Sir Gene (01:53:17):
I guess.

Defango (01:53:17):
speci specified audience and I mean, like, I
don't ever, I don't find toomuch success over there with it.
I mean, for a while, you know,like the only thing that ever
felt me success is when I wasjust being a fucking piece of
shit and flying around andblowing people up.
And it's because I sandbag veryhard.

(01:53:37):
Like, you know, like I de, Inever go a hundred percent on
pretty much anybody becauselike, I want them to blow me up.
I want people to, you know,fight me and I want it to be
exciting where, you know, I'mlike fucking up on purpose so
that, you

Sir Gene (01:53:53):
Dude, I remember flying with you in, in the Turt
and like, I'm thinking, okay,we're gonna get, there's no way
you can finish killing thisdude.
We're gonna get killed.
We're gonna respond again.
The half the plane have plane,half the spaceship doesn't
exist.
It's, it's blown off.

(01:54:13):
We're just flying around in youknow, a vanguard with like no
wings and, and you managed toactually kill the dude and then
limp your way back to a, a basefor repairs.
I was like, shit, that's somegood flying.

Defango (01:54:27):
Yeah, it's all about like skill.
And then like, I wouldn't beable to do that when I first
started playing, like when I wason keyboard and mouse, but I was
still pretty good back then.
And I would go af you know, Iwould fight whoever.
I would just bounty hunt, youknow, I would meet all the
different streamers and stuffand like get to understand their
tactics and what they would do.
And then I was just like, okay,well if this is what makes them

(01:54:48):
popular, I'm gonna do, and I didit as like a f you, I changed my
name and was like, just fireout.
And that's when I saw success isbecause that's what people
really like seemingly wanted tosee.
They were like, yeah, we justwanna see somebody like, you
know, fucking farming tears.
And I had fun doing that, right?
Like it was actually fun.
I could let loose and have somepretty good fights.

(01:55:10):
And I mean, you know, still tothis day, I think the best dog
fights that I probably had werewith moist Noodle because they
were the most realistic andnatural.
Like, you know, it was clear tome that he's just a fucking
fantastic pilot and he hasexcellent equipment and that's
why he's so fucking good.
It's because he understands hisequipment.

(01:55:32):
He's an excellent pilot and hedoesn't have anything phony.
There's no funny business going.
When he's flying and you cantell because he actually screws
up, right?
Like there's no way that you canfly perfectly and shoot
perfectly a hundred percent ofthe time.
And there's other guys out therethat do this and it's just
unnatural.
Like, you know, the way thatthey fly is unnatural.

(01:55:53):
The things they can do areunnatural.
You're like, how the hell did hejust do that boost like that?
Like when he had no boost yethe's catching me and he, he's
trying to tell me that I did afucking, he did a fucking J
drift turn or some shit likethat.
Like, you know, get the fuckoutta here.
You, you fucking liar.

Sir Gene (01:56:10):
Yeah.
You just don't need those inspace.

Defango (01:56:13):
yeah.
Like, you don't need that inspace.
Like, I should just be able tocatch you, you know?
Like if I fucking take off fromyou and I'm going 700 and you're
going 200, there is no fuckingway you could catch up to me.
Right.
Especially if I'm in like afucking if I, if I'm in a, like,
what, what's the, the bladethat's a really fast
accelerating ship.

(01:56:34):
It's like when I fight everybodyelse and you, they're in an
arrow, they can't catch me, butI fight you.
You could catch me every singletime and then you tell me that
this is how you're

Sir Gene (01:56:45):
Yeah.
In the gladius.

Defango (01:56:48):
I try to do it, I can't do it.
Everyone else tries to do it.
They can't do it.
But you, you could do it.
So you know, like,

Sir Gene (01:56:54):
there's a video going around.
We, we watched this on saltyStream a couple days.
of a bunch of hacks in the gameand people having infinite ammo,
infinite boost, all kinds ofthings like that.
I mean, it's in there, it'shappening.

Defango (01:57:10):
It's there.
It's happening.
You know, it's pretty easy forthem to do it, and it's all
wrapped up with the reshapebinary that's been reported,
which is, you know, but thething is they said it's okay.
So like, they're not gonna doanything about this stuff.
And physically it's like, whatare you gonna do?

Sir Gene (01:57:28):
yeah, it, that's it's unfortunate cuz it, it really
has no business.
There's no real reason forallowing, reshape, reshape
should not be a thing.

Defango (01:57:37):
Yeah.
If they disallowed, reshape allof those, I tell you what, right
after they disallowed, reshape,all of a sudden all of these
hacks that people be using aregonna go away.
And then the P V P meta is gonnabe fucking different.
Because if you go back andthere's one event that happened,
it was like at mo eSports, theydid the fight or flight, and it

(01:57:59):
was like all of the creme de lacran PVP people.
I didn't even apply because A, Ididn't have any teammates at the
time because I had just gotkicked out of the co force and
b, I figured, you know, my nameprobably didn't need to be
around at that point.
So like, I just hung back and Iwatched the whole thing, right.
And it was almost apparentimmediately if you go back and

(01:58:20):
you watch the pips and you know,you just watch every single
fight, you can see who's, who'sfucking cheating and who's not
fucking

Sir Gene (01:58:27):
Mm-hmm.

Defango (01:58:28):
Right.
And there was one group thatwon, the group that won.
Those guys don't cheat.
Those guys are just the best ofthe best, right?
They're the actual good playersand they don't mess around with
any of this bullshit that someof these other guys are talking
about.
And all of a sudden, you know,like, you know, you watch the

(01:58:50):
fights between those guys andcertain people that were like
the crowd favorites or whatever,and they just got obliterated
almost immediately you were justlike wow.
And you know, that's whathappens

Sir Gene (01:58:59):
Well, and the, the, a good telltale sign for me is
you'll watch somebody that'ssupposed to be an expert in
space combat one of theseself-proclaimed guys, right?
You're watching their video andthey're flying their ship
without God, I'm blanking on theword without decouple on.
So they're flying coupled.

(01:59:20):
It's like, who the fuck fliescoupled?
If you're doing pvp, you shouldalways be flying decoupled
because you can't do a lot ofmaneuvers if you're flying
coupled.
So decoupled gets you closer toa good spaceship model.
It's still not really there, butit gets you closer.
So if somebody's like talkingabout how awesome a uh, PVP or

(01:59:41):
they are, and then you watchtheir videos and, and they have
couple on, it's like, dude,you're clearly not doing it
right.

Defango (01:59:48):
Well, that's the funny thing is that I always fly
coupled, so all the PVP thatI've done has been coupled

Sir Gene (01:59:54):
Oh, you are, you, you clearly suck, man.

Defango (01:59:57):
yeah, I think I clearly am just the worst ever.
But no, it's, it, it must be thehandicap that I give myself or
something like that because likeI, I've never find the need to
fly decoupled

Sir Gene (02:00:09):
Well, I can explain to you what shit you can't do
coupled that you can dodecoupled.
Like, there's plenty of thingsthat, for one thing, if you're
flying decoupled, you'll neverpass out.
Ever.
Because it, because youshouldn't the way the game
works.
You can, you can, instead ofmaking a big old loop around

(02:00:31):
somebody, you can go directly atthem regardless of what position
they're in, which takes lesstime, gets you in distance a lot
faster.
So when I watch these guysflying coupled, I'm like,
you're, you're like adding anextra layer of pretending you're
flying an atmosphere for somereason.
And there's no reason to do itin space.
And even with decoupled, themodel still is far from good.

(02:00:53):
Like the decoupled model inElite is better, but that's not
even completely accurate.
If you want real accuracy, yougotta look at games like Kal
Space Program that have realorbital mechanics in them.
And if you want to catchsomebody, what you need to do is
go down below.
If you want to you know, likeyou don't do things that you
would if you're flying around anaircraft in in air, in space,

(02:01:18):
especially in orbit, you docompletely different maneuvers
to achieve the same result.
And people don't know thisbecause most people have never
bothered actually studyingorbital dynamics.
So a game that can simulate thatto me is so much more fun than a
game that simply takes airplanecombat and then moves it into
space.

Defango (02:01:39):
Yeah, that's not that cool

Sir Gene (02:01:42):
Yeah.
Anyway let's wrap up.
So I'm sure there's a few folksthat really enjoyed the, the
talk about video games.
Probably a whole slew of peoplethat were like, oh my God, can
you guys not shut the fuck upabout video games already?
It's definitely a mixed crowd,but you know what?
We don't have to talk aboutpolitics all the time.
I, I enjoy plenty of othertopics and it's kind of nice to

(02:02:05):
not have to constantly beyammering about all the bad shit
happening in this country and,and all the mistakes that the US
government's currently making.
Sometimes it's just fun to talkabout things that we enjoy.
So I appreciate you being on.
Where can people find.

Defango (02:02:20):
Oh, you guys can find me on YouTube at defang.
Go.
Just search for Defang.
Go.
You can find me there or you canfind me on Twitter at kang
underscore pirate.
That's usually the best way tofind me.

Sir Gene (02:02:33):
K underscore pirate.
Is that K for kick ass or

Defango (02:02:35):
Kang.
Yeah, with the K a n gunderscore

Sir Gene (02:02:39):
Oh, Kang Pirate, that's right.
Yeah.
Got it.
Very cool man.
Thanks for coming on.
And I will be back in about aweek with some other guest.

Defango (02:02:49):
All right, sounds good.

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