October 1, 2025 • 41 mins
Please text and tell us what you like
Aradhana Kejriwal shares insights on her work as an Outsourced Chief Investment Officer (OCIO) and discusses how women are reshaping the investment landscape with their growing control of wealth and unique perspectives on risk.
• OCIOs function as dedicated investment departments for advisory firms, providing sophisticated research and investment management while allowing advisors to focus on client relationships
• AI serves as a companion in finance, making processes more efficient without replacing human judgment and relationship management
• The value of customization in investment services—creating tailored solutions rather than cookie-cutter approaches
• Women will control $34 trillion (38%) of US investable assets, making women-focused investment strategies increasingly important
• Women tend to be "risk aware" rather than simply conservative investors, bringing valuable perspectives to investment committees
• Financial literacy initiatives are crucial for empowering women as investors
• Advice for young women in finance: recognize that skills managing household finances translate directly to professional investing
Check out our financial literacy foundation and join our weekly episodes as we continue delivering current and relevant ideas to help you reach your financial wellness and improve your investing IQ.
Straight Talk for All - Nonsense for None
Please check out our other podcasts:
https://skepticsguidetoinvesting.buzzsprout.com
Disclaimer - These podcasts are not intended as investment advice. Individuals please consult your own investment, tax and legal advisors. They provide these insights for educational purposes only.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Steve Davenport (00:02):
Hello everyone and welcome to Skeptic's Guide
to Investing.
Today I'm here without Clem.
He's wandering around Japansomewhere eating lots of sushi
and I'm here with my friend,Aradhana Kejriwal.
Aradhana and I were members ofthe CFA Society Atlanta and
we're both former presidents.
She was with me when I waspresident and she was part of my
(00:25):
team and we've had a greatprofessional relationship for
the last 10 plus years.
And when I think about woman infinance, I think about Aradhana
and how she brings it to everyevent or everything she does for
her clients.
I think about that passion andI think about how much we can
(00:47):
make a difference when we careabout our clients.
So I'd like to talk to herabout there about some of the
things she's doing.
I think that her career and herlessons about how she's facing
the investment world could bevery good information for a
woman who's thinking about acareer or just somebody who
(01:10):
wants to understand how womenhave succeeded in this business
previously.
So, Aradhana, welcome and I'mso glad to have you on and
talking with us and I guess I'dlike to say how do you feel
about today and the markets?
And we're called Skeptic'sGuide because we're a little bit
(01:30):
skeptical.
Sometimes Are you skeptical,not?
Aradhana Kejriwal (01:36):
Well, thank you, Steve, for having me on
your podcast.
I truly appreciate it and Itruly treasure and value our
friendship, so I'm reallyexcited to be here.
Am I a skeptic or not?
I think just the nature of whatwe do for a living CVU and I,
(01:58):
it just naturally makes us askeptic.
We are living in veryinteresting times and there's no
doubt about that.
There's no shortage of news andyet, you see, the markets keep
going up.
(02:19):
Cautious, diversified investoruh, yes, I, I do look at the
frothiness in the market and I'mconcerned, so that's the
reason my clients are investedin high quality, cautious, very
diversified portfolio, becausethe world that we're living in
you just don't know what's thatone catalyst that will, uh,
(02:43):
that'll, pop the bubble thatwe're in?
But it's actually quitewelcoming to see this year the
markets rally quite broadeningaway from what we saw in 2023
and 2024.
Yet we still are in a veryconcentrated market, but it's at
least a relief to see theinternational markets doing well
(03:04):
and sort of broadening.
But, yes, skeptic indeed, andskeptic on everything that's
happening around us.
Steve Davenport (03:13):
Can you help our listeners understand this
term OCIO, Outsourced ChiefInvestment Officer ?
My partner works doing that atCirca.
But can you tell me, and tellour listeners, a little bit
about what is an OCIO and how dothe how does it make a
(03:37):
difference for a small firm thatmight be trying to do too many
things.
You can come in and help themwith one of the main parts of
their their RIA business?
Aradhana Kejriwal (03:50):
So, as you mentioned, OCIO outsourced chief
investment officer, um, so, um,I run an OCIO firm and so one
should think about an OCIO firmas a dedicated investment
department is tailored to theadvisory firm's clients.
The investment philosophy wouldbe aligned and it would be
(04:30):
aligned and also be aligned withyour planning process.
An OCIO firm would do themanager due diligence.
So that would basically digdeeper than the basics and do
very thorough due diligence sothat it helps you avoid
surprises and you're just notrelying on some star ratings to
find a manager.
You're actually doing thein-depth due diligence.
(04:53):
You're doing ongoing marketanalysis, so the strategies that
the advisory firm is offeringstays relevant.
And, of course, as an OCIO firm, there's support for other
investment-related activities orneeds.
Like you know, there are anyclient questions.
There are prospect reviews,there's trading rebalancing
(05:14):
questions, looking atrebalancing softwares, things
like that.
So the point is not to take overthe advisory firm's client
relationships.
It's basically to over theadvisory firm's client
relationships.
It's basically to give theadvisory firm and the advisors
the freedom to focus on theclients.
(05:35):
So instead of dividing for anadvisory firm, instead of them
dividing their time betweenclient meetings and then coming
back to investment modeling,you're sort of staying in the
lane of being the relationshipmanager with your end clients,
knowing that the investment sideis handled.
So that's typically the role ofan OCIO and I think the biggest
(05:59):
differentiator by having anOCIO in this very crowded
advisory marketplace is that youcan offer the same depth and
sophistication as a larger firmwithout really sacrificing a
boutique feel.
You have a CFA on staff withoutpaying the big dollars and
(06:21):
you're you get the same level uhof sophistication.
Uh, you're walking into client,like the advisor can walk into
a client meeting, knowing thatyou have very current, very
well-researched answers uh toquestions on the market,
environment, the risk, theopportunities.
So you're, you're, uh,essentially more focused.
(06:45):
The advisor is more focused onthe quality of the relationships
with their end clients and nothave to worry about the
investment piece.
So I think that's really wherethe differentiator comes from
for the advisory firm, becausethe quality that they're
offering to their clients justjumps to a whole different level
.
Steve Davenport (07:05):
Yeah, it sounds like it's more about enhancing
and augmenting than it is aboutreplacing, because I think
specialization, especially inour industry, is important and
you can try to be all things toall people, but it ends up that
somebody has to suffer and Ithink that people who start out
(07:26):
as planners or accountantsthat's really where their heart
is in a lot of cases.
So, the other part about tradingand making some of these
choices, I think it's a greatway for a firm to look and feel
bigger and focus their energieson the things that really bring
them more joy.
Feel bigger and focus theirenergies on the things that
(07:47):
really bring them more joy.
I think this whole space isgetting very, very complicated
because, I mean, I don't knowabout you, but I feel like the
RIA industry and AI are going togo through a very big
transition.
Do you have any early feelingsabout AI and the advisor, or do
you find it's way too early toget into that kind of thinking
(08:11):
and that we're being fearfulabout something we don't really
know?
Aradhana Kejriwal (08:16):
No, I think AI is very relevant to our
practice and it is one that weall should be adapting.
I don't see it as a threat.
I see it as a companion becauseit makes you more efficient,
right?
So you talk about things likeinvestment, committee minutes,
(08:40):
note-taking right Now you getlike minutes within right after
the meeting.
The minutes are produced withthe things to do, and all of
that because there's so manygood apps out there that can
help you.
Ai can help you do a lot ofthings that can help you make
(09:02):
you more efficient.
So I think I see that as acompanion.
Can AI really replace what ourend advisors are doing for their
clients?
I don't believe so.
You cannot replace a humanbeing's instinct in managing a
client relationship.
I cannot see AI sort of takingthat over, because, as advisors
(09:25):
in our business, you know theadvisors have a close
relationships with their endclients.
You can't have a machinetalking to the end client, so I
cannot see AI sort of takingover that element.
And we've read so many things onthe behavioral side that AI is
(09:48):
sending some wrong prompts,which is causing people to take
some extreme steps, is a greatcompanion and making business
practices more efficient, moreeffective.
You know managing time in amuch better way so that you can
(10:11):
focus on things that are moreimportant, like managing client
relationships.
So I feel that there is a placein business.
And then, of course, if youkind of pivot to the, the
trading element or thetechnology element, ai is just
helping so much in developingpresentations, things that would
(10:32):
take you much longer, or, youknow, just sort of summarizing
big white papers that are outthere.
I mean, there's so much ofbenefit from AI.
So I think it's sort of lookingat the glass half full, half
empty, and I tend to look at thehalf full.
Steve Davenport (10:51):
Yeah, I mean even two old guys like me and
Clem.
I mean, when we started thispodcast, they asked us if we
wanted an AI transcript from thecall, and I'm like what?
And then I looked at how itrecorded the voices, interpreted
(11:11):
the tone of one voice versusanother, to know that the person
has changed.
Like it's not perfect, believeme, it still gets a little
confused about capitalizing.
I still don't know why itdoesn't capitalize, certain
words and doesn't do certainthings, but it really is an
amazing feature when you cantake an hour-long podcast and
(11:32):
transcribe all of theconversations and attribute them
, mostly correctly, to thedifferent people.
I mean, I think for people whocan't listen to the podcast and
want to read it, it's atremendous asset to be able to
do some of these things.
And I think of it as only goingto help us.
(11:55):
And I don't think,population-wise, there's going
to be enough advisors for people.
So I think we're going to see ashortage because there's quite a
few advisors in that 65 and uprange who are looking to sell
their practices.
And if they sell theirpractices to someone else, well,
now that practice has twice asmany people and twice as many
(12:18):
clients and they're going tohave to get more efficient.
It's not like I don't thinkthat we're running out of people
and AI is going to eateveryone's lunch.
I have a feeling that peoplewho do it well will be able to
communicate better, will be ableto send out.
You know, I can ask AI to writeone of our blogs and say, hey,
(12:40):
talk about this concept and talkabout and you, you know you can
develop some pretty goodmaterials.
I don't think that they're asgood as the human writer and my
partner and I argue about.
You know whether I couldreplace him with a chat gpt, but
we, uh, you know it comes downto having the right perspective
(13:03):
and having experience and Ibelieve people who make a
difference and make clients feelat home and make clients feel
confident.
It's it's not going to happenfrom a bot, so um, so I think
that's very interesting.
What are the main things thatyou think about in terms of your
(13:23):
advantage as an OCIO?
What's your special sauce?
Aradhana Kejriwal (13:31):
Yeah.
So the differentiator between meand any of the larger TAMs or
OCIO firms out there is thecustomization that PIC offers to
its clients.
So it's not just cookie cuttersolutions being delivered, it's
(13:53):
deliberate, customized solutions, deliverables with the same
depth and sophistication thatyou would get from a larger firm
, but without sacrificing theadvisory firm's boutique feel.
So I think that is the biggestthing that PIC offers and that's
(14:17):
what I believe why clientschoose PIC?
Because they've sort of feelthat the investment department
you know the investmentdepartment is sitting inside
their office and not sittingoutside and and and so I think
that's, um, that's the biggestfeel.
And, of course, you know,because, uh, because uh, pic is
(14:38):
a much uh sort of smaller, uh,more niche in in a more niche
phase.
You know the follow-ups aremore quick and they're more
thoughtful.
And you know my advisoryclients are not feeling that
they're just, you know, gettinga 50,000 foot view answer.
They're getting a verythoughtful answer that is
(15:00):
catered to their end clients.
So I think that's what makesthe biggest difference between
hiring a boutique firm andhiring one of the large OCIOs.
Steve Davenport (15:12):
No, I think that your perspective with
regard to clients and thebehavioral aspects and your
experience at Joyn and some ofyour other experiences in your
career have put you in a uniqueposition to give a good
perspective.
I'd also say that yourcommitment to the community and
to women and to people coming onboard that you help in India is
(15:38):
an inspiration to a lot ofpeople.
I have to say, the way thatwe've tried to shape how CFAs
are perceived in the communityand how we can be offsetting to
some of the negativity aroundfinance and investments.
(16:02):
I think is the future, and Ithink advisors need to think
about their community just asmuch as they think about their
clients, because I think thatone helps the other right.
If you help an advisory firmbecome a little more rounded and
show some of the personalitiesof the firm and how they're
(16:22):
committed to this cause becauseof a parent or this cause
because of a child, it shows usas not just numbers machines
that crank out an answer.
When they say, what's my risk,we tell them you know it's the
14.4.
I think we say, well, there'smany ways to measure risk and we
(16:42):
want to do it in a way thatmeans the most to you, and I
think that your process of doingthat, has got to make every
firm you touch better right.
Aradhana Kejriwal (16:57):
Yes, thank you.
If you think about the CFAcharter and what that has taught
us, you know, definitely wehave that strong technical
foundation right.
That's what, when we talk aboutrisk, like you said, we're not
just looking at risk just from aperformance standpoint, but
looking at risk from 50different ways to look at risk.
(17:19):
Was it fees?
Is it liquidity?
Is it concentration, whateverit is right?
Risk Was it fees?
Is it liquidity, is itconcentration, whatever it is
right?
So we're looking.
So the charter has given us thatvery, very strong foundation
and a deep knowledge from aninvestment standpoint.
And you know, and the ethics,the ethical training that you
(17:40):
and I have gone through andeverybody else who has a CFA
charter has gone through.
So I think all of that isextremely important, as you and
I have built our careers andhave built our individual
practices to establishcredibility right.
So I think that's one of thebiggest skill sets that we've
(18:01):
gotten from the charter and theprogram, that we've stayed
curious.
We apply these skills inreal-world scenarios.
We are, you know, in whatever,and that's sort of what we're
delivering to our clients.
You know the trust, thecredibility and the technical
skills and, of course, you knowyou talked about the behavioral
(18:21):
part of it and we focus on thatas well.
You know you look at the charternow it's sort of morphing more
to adapt to the AI environment.
So I think there are a lot oflot of good things that we as
CFA charter holders bring to ourcareers and be built over time,
along with, of course, theexperience.
You know you worked at variousbanks, I worked at various banks
(18:43):
.
You know you worked at variousbanks, I worked at various banks
.
You know we both have worked inadvisory practices.
So you know, of courseexperience is there.
And then so you add the CFAcharter and the experience
together and that's, I think,what we're delivering and making
it more making our clients feelthat you know, when they're
(19:05):
hiring us, they can trust thatwe'll deliver with full
integrity.
Steve Davenport (19:12):
Yes, I think it's one thing to have a person
who's completely technicallysound and I think the CFA does a
good job of giving you thebroad base of knowledge to help
do that but I think ultimatelyit's about the relationship
stupid.
You know what I mean.
It's kind of like you can haveall the knowledge but if it's
(19:35):
not communicated and it's notorganized and it's not meant to
satisfy the client need, it'sjust noise, absolutely client
need, it's just noise.
Aradhana Kejriwal (19:43):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Steve Davenport (19:45):
I like to think that we want less noise in our
life and we want simplicity andwe want balance and those things
come from somebody who'sthoughtful, developing a
solution that is customized andboutique.
And I know that everybody wouldlike to say just 80% S&P index
(20:05):
and 20% the ag and go to sleepfor 20 years, and there are some
advisors doing that.
But I think the advisors whoare really making an impact with
clients are thinking abouttiming, thinking about college,
thinking about their children,how they save for college and
how they get through some of thefinancial hurdles in life.
(20:26):
That's what makes people sleepbetter at night is knowing that
they're and I love the fact thatthere's so many good statistics
about and people who have anadvisor are much less likely to
make a mistake and they're muchmore likely to feel confident
about their finances becausethey're just.
You know it's hard if you're anindividual today and both of you
(20:49):
are working and you've gotthree kids and there's just a
lot going on with soccer and youknow volleyball and all the uh
challenges of life and I I justthink that you're.
You know you're not trying todo your own dental work.
You're not trying to do yourown.
You know heart surgery, yougive it up to a specialist, and
(21:14):
I think the same is true aboutyour money, and so I think it's
really important to find anerodner or someone at a firm who
can, you know, help make yourfinancial journey a little less
cumbersome.
Um, I know you spend a lot oftime with dei and personally
you're involved in helping a lotof women.
(21:36):
Um, can you kind of give me a?
You know what's the status 2025?
Dei in finance, dei in society?
Like, how are you feeling?
Are you feeling discouraged bythe current administration?
Are you feeling like it's likethe world has kind of gone in
(21:57):
the opposite direction to makeprogress?
What are you feeling?
Aradhana Kejriwal (22:02):
So I will say , as a true CFA charterholder, I
focus on data versus oneverything that's happening from
a noise standpoint, if I maysay so, with the current
administration.
So if you look at data rightand just demographics, women
will control a much larger shareof wealth and investable assets
(22:26):
than there's ever been, right?
So US women?
So there's that McKinsey studythat said US women right now are
controlling.
Projections are that they willcontrol about 34 trillion of
investable assets.
That's about 38% of the USassets.
That is out there, right?
So if women control more assets, then their investment
(22:51):
preferences, their risktolerance, their goals matter
more.
Right?
So firms should be tuned to theneeds of women.
So better advisory approaches,better tailored wealth and
behavioral and investmentservices really, really matter.
So if that is the case, then asfemale controlled wealth grows,
(23:18):
you need to have that pipelineof having more women advisors or
having more women in theinvestment field.
It becomes even more and morenecessary.
So what has worked is probablynot going to work in the future,
because women are going to bein control of more money, so
(23:42):
they're going to be in controlof more money.
You cannot just ignore them.
You have to develop thatpipeline, right?
So you have to have moreregulatory, more industry
pressures to to bridge thatgender gap that we see right now
.
I think there should be morethoughtful leadership.
There should be moretransparent hiring decisions,
(24:05):
more education in the schools.
You know, you and I have beenvery, very passionately involved
also in financial literacy andgoing and talking in schools and
, of course, DEI efforts.
And that's not to say that Idon't believe in merit-based
hiring.
I of don't believe inmerit-based hiring.
I of course believe inmerit-based hiring.
(24:27):
But at the same time I believethat when you're doing
merit-based hiring, there shouldbe that equal opportunity given
to women.
And if you just follow thesimple principle of follow the
money and if the projectionsfrom a demographic standpoint
say more money with women, thenyou need to be focused more on
(24:47):
women now so that 10, 20, 15years from now, when we get to
that point, we're not scrambling.
Steve Davenport (24:54):
Right, I think it's very important.
I mean, I mean you're preachingto the converted.
I believe the woman and theirnatural you know, their natural
ability to nurture and tosupport and to educate make them
the ideal advisor.
And what I found mostcompelling was when I started
(25:15):
talking about financial literacy10 years ago and creating the
foundation and I said you know,I don't know who's going to come
out, I don't know who's goingto answer the call, I don't know
who's going to give us money, Idon't know what this is going
to be.
I'm just going to go ahead anddo it and see what happens and
see how much impact we can have.
And 80% of our volunteers forthe foundation were one, and so
(25:41):
the CFA society has 20% womenand 80% men.
So you can see there'ssomething different there.
And what my belief is and Ithink it's coming true is we
have a resource here that isdesigned to make people feel
comfortable and make people feelmore in touch with their money
(26:05):
and make people feel more intouch with their money.
And what we've done is, bycreating a harsher and more
competitive and more high-pacedfinancial industry, we've
alienated half of the populationthat we should have engaged
with us in this effort, and Ibelieve that we're going to see
more and more women and more andmore women are going to
(26:26):
emphasize the need for financialliteracy.
And I was just really glad I hadGene Natale on from Troutwood
at the Pittsburgh CFA and youknow he's saying that 60 percent
of students in the UnitedStates now have a high school
requirement for financialliteracy.
I remember 10 years ago thatwas like 10.
(26:48):
So I think we're moving in theright direction and a lot of it
has to do with women and theirdesire to make things better for
those who come after them.
So I guess I'd like to kind ofgo towards your money story,
because we like to talk about ifAradna was getting out of high
(27:12):
school or in high school andtrying to decide what you could
do.
So what would you do today,whether it might be different or
the same as what you did?
And tell me, is there somebodyin your life that came along
that said hey, look, aradhana,you're very good at this, this
and this.
I think you know you could.
(27:33):
I want to help you to be theperson you can be.
Tell me the Aradhana storyabout money.
Aradhana Kejriwal (27:41):
Yeah, no, that's a great, great question,
steve, and you know I would.
I kind of would start with thefinancial literacy part of it,
because I think the reason we'redoing so much with the
foundation and financialliteracy is because generally
women are less confidentinvestors.
(28:02):
That is changing and that's whyeducation is very important and
for us to go and empower andeducate women from a high school
level is extremely important.
So the 60% data that yousuggested is really a good one.
So when I look back and I seeyou know what sort of made me go
(28:23):
through my career.
I started investing at a very,very young age and a lot of that
came from my parents and my momand just seeing her.
So I definitely was raised by avery, very strong woman and
(28:44):
even my dad, so very supportive,very strong woman and even my
dad, so very supportive, verystrong household, which sort of
gave me the freedom to exploreand do anything I wanted.
So I wasn't sort of pigeonholedthat you know I need to be an
engineer or a doctor.
I was given that freedom.
Steve Davenport (29:02):
Do you?
Aradhana Kejriwal (29:02):
have any brothers.
My sister is an engineer andshe's in computer science and
she sort of followed theatypical route that you see in
the asian community and she'sshe's done marvelous in her life
as well.
Um, as far as you know, when Ichose to go the finance route, I
just loved investing and thiswas in pre um um was.
(29:25):
You know, I started managingmoney right before the tech
bubble.
You know the start of the techbubble.
So I kind of saw that whole thebuildup of that bubble and that
sort of that burst and ittaught me so much about
long-term investing.
You know the sort of the greed,the greed and the fear that that
(29:48):
rules investing and that makespeople capitulate.
So I learned those lessons very, very early on.
I learned very early on alsothat that, as a woman, we tend
to invest a little bitdifferently in the sense that
we're more risk aware.
I wouldn't say conservative asmuch, but more risk aware is the
(30:11):
term I would use.
So I think that really reallyhelped shape how I manage money
today with a very, very keen eyetowards behavioral, towards
being aware of human behavior,because no matter how sound you
are, it's our emotions, it's ourgreed and fear that makes a
(30:34):
difference, right?
Steve Davenport (30:35):
Right.
You've got to recognize it inorder to address it.
Absolutely, I think that a lotof men just say I'm going to get
to the answer, address it.
I think that a lot of men justsay I'm going to get to the
answer, and I think that we needto kind of look at the process
and try to make the process alittle more flexible, instead of
saying here's the answer.
(30:56):
And I think that we're allstarting.
I think we learn from each otherand I've learned a lot from the
other officers at the CFA, likeyou and some of Kathy Christman
and some of the other peoplethat were just phenomenal at
kind of bringing their own brandof investing, and I think that
(31:17):
there is multi.
You know there is no one way,there is no silver bullet, and I
think that the realization andthe comfort that you're going to
have to you know, adjust and beflexible, um, I think, is a lot
of men and I'm not going to,you know, qualify.
(31:37):
Everyone has an idea of how youget to the end, and some it's
much more of a cooperativejourney and some people it's
more of an individual journey,and I think that when we look at
some of the great womeninvestors, you can tell that
they were very good at improvingthe board's overall rationale
(31:59):
and how they looked at things,instead of just saying we're
going to go with whoever shoutsthe loudest and whoever has the
strongest opinions.
I think that we all realizethat balancing opinions and
balancing ideas leads to betterresults.
Aradhana Kejriwal (32:16):
I couldn't agree more, and I think one of
the biggest things that womenbring to the table is and one of
the lessons that I learnedgrowing up is just being curious
and asking questions, becurious and be humble.
So, like you said, if you arehumble and flexible and you're
not the kinds who says I knowwhat I'm doing and I know I'm
(32:38):
doing it the right way and I'mnot going to change it, that's
where you lead to poordecision-making.
And I think, as a woman and notto say that men don't do it,
many men do it as well andthat's where you lead to poor
decision making.
And I think, as a woman, um,and not to say that men don't do
it, many men do it as well andthat's what makes them great
investors, you know.
Challenge your own process,make it better, be humble,
recognize that you're human andyou're subject to the same
(33:00):
emotions that someone else is.
And we better we become, youknow, even though technically we
are.
We have charters, so we'retechnically have more experience
, but I think what makes usbetter investors is the fact
that we recognize our, ourconstraints, and we try to
(33:21):
develop processes that are moretransparent and disciplined, to
question ourselves and say, okay, what is the other sideline?
So I think you know I'mactually quite encouraged by the
fact that the data shows that.
You know more wealth with womenwould, and typically money is
(33:42):
what sort of takes everything,as you know, the change that
that is that should be comingand will come eventually is
going to come because you knowwomen are going to own more
wealth, but also folks like youand the Aspen Foundation, what
you started, you know thepipelines we're building, all of
that.
You know grassroots endeavorslike this is what makes the
(34:08):
difference.
You know Right.
Steve Davenport (34:09):
And that's what we're trying to do here with
the podcast as well, is getpeople to listen, get people you
know, and if a woman listens tothis podcast and now feels more
confident about addressing this, you know this career.
You know this career.
You know I don't know how many,how many women listeners we
have.
We have a lot of data on youknow the people's URLs and which
(34:34):
cities are downloading, but Ithink that you know.
All I can say is it can putgood things out into the
universe.
I think somebody receives them,and those who receive them
usually will share with others,and that's what we do.
So I guess receive them usuallywill share with others, and
that's what we do.
So I guess.
Is there any last thoughts youhave about women investing the
the markets?
How do you, how would you leavewith a advice to a radna 2.0
(34:58):
who's 21 years old and has justgraduated from college?
Aradhana Kejriwal (35:03):
So I'll say two things.
One, if you're a Rana 2.0 woman, remember, most home budgets
are managed by a woman.
So there's no reason why, whena woman can manage her home
budget so effectively, why awoman cannot manage money
outside her home.
(35:23):
There is absolutely no reason.
So one is as competent, a womanis as competent.
If she's competent inside thehouse, she's equally competent
outside her house.
Steve Davenport (35:36):
So so don't say , say it loud, I have two
daughters, so I've, I've, soI've learned this the hard way,
right?
I appreciate it.
Aradhana Kejriwal (35:52):
Yes, absolutely.
So I really feel there's noreason to shy, and especially in
our industry, which has acertain image.
But I feel, as a woman, webring a lot of good things to
the industry.
So I would love for ourpipeline to be the reverse at
(36:13):
some point, where we're not just20% women and 80% men, you know
, may there be a time where it'sthe other way, or at least a
parody, because we know we canand and we should and we
shouldn't shy this is not justwe shouldn't shy behind the fact
that it's just a man's world,it is, uh, a person's world
(36:37):
which has both men and women.
So I'd leave it, I'm excuse me,I'd leave the podcast with that
thought that never second guessyourself.
Steve Davenport (36:48):
You know, I think that's great advice.
I mean, I think that there's alot of people who are fearful of
what they don't know.
In investing, I try to learn asmuch as I can about the things
I'm planting, because if I wantthem to live and thrive, I got
(37:08):
to go outside my regular circle.
The first step and the firststep is you know what I mean,
try something.
Try, try investing in in thatindex fund and that, and then
(37:39):
say, okay, now I understand thatI'm going to invest
internationally.
And and then say, okay, youknow, I I really believe that
India is an economy.
I'm going to buy the Indian ETF.
I mean, I'd love to hear your.
Last thing I forgot to mentionwas the work you do with women
quarterly on calls about careersand finance and stuff.
Can you talk about that for aminute?
Aradhana Kejriwal (37:59):
Yes, yes, sure.
So thank you for mentioningthat.
So I do quarterly calls inIndia with students in India
that are thinking about the CFAprogram or are thinking about
the MBA program and want to knowwhy doing a CFA is better and
(38:22):
how.
You know how I've sort of gonethrough my career of going
through working at differentbanks and sort of you know
jumping very early on in mycareer to get as much experience
as I could.
So they, so I do a lot of callswith them, sort of talking
about giving them career advice.
You know, and this is like Isaid, be curious, be humble and
(38:46):
be curious, be humble and alwayslook to grow.
And so I do.
I do that.
I typically get about 100, 150students every quarter that are
exploring careers and finance.
So so it's great.
Steve Davenport (39:02):
I mean, that's 500 people who have had somebody
reach back and try to lift themup.
I mean it's inspiring whatyou're doing around, and I'd
love to stay in touch and haveyou back here if you've enjoyed
this as much as I have, becauseI think your perspective is
refreshing and I think that weall have to figure out a way to
(39:23):
touch someone, that we all haveto figure out a way to touch
someone, and I guess I'd endthis podcast that way, in saying
this is a great example ofpeople having different views
and different ways to attacktheir lives, and we'd love you
to share this.
We'd love you to talk to yourfriends and talk to your
neighbors about some of theideas we propose here on
(39:45):
Skeptic's Guide, and we want tokeep making everyone's lives
better.
So thank you everybody forlistening and we appreciate your
support and I hope you like thenew format.
We're going out weekly nowinstead of every two weeks, and
I don't know if it makes adifference, but we're trying and
(40:06):
we keep wanting to deliverideas that are current and ideas
that are relevant to help youreach your financial wellness
and improve your investing IQ.
All right, everybody, thanks.
Aradhana Kejriwal (40:19):
Thank you and congratulations on 100 episodes
.
Hello everyone and welcome to Skeptic's Guide
to Investing.
Today I'm here without Clem.
He's wandering around Japansomewhere eating lots of sushi
and I'm here with my friend,Aradhana Kejriwal.
Aradhana and I were members ofthe CFA Society Atlanta and
we're both former presidents.
She was with me when I waspresident and she was part of my
(00:25):
team and we've had a greatprofessional relationship for
the last 10 plus years.
And when I think about woman infinance, I think about Aradhana
and how she brings it to everyevent or everything she does for
her clients.
I think about that passion andI think about how much we can
(00:47):
make a difference when we careabout our clients.
So I'd like to talk to herabout there about some of the
things she's doing.
I think that her career and herlessons about how she's facing
the investment world could bevery good information for a
woman who's thinking about acareer or just somebody who
(01:10):
wants to understand how womenhave succeeded in this business
previously.
So, Aradhana, welcome and I'mso glad to have you on and
talking with us and I guess I'dlike to say how do you feel
about today and the markets?
And we're called Skeptic'sGuide because we're a little bit
(01:30):
skeptical.
Sometimes Are you skeptical,not?
Aradhana Kejriwal (01:36):
Well, thank you, Steve, for having me on
your podcast.
I truly appreciate it and Itruly treasure and value our
friendship, so I'm reallyexcited to be here.
Am I a skeptic or not?
I think just the nature of whatwe do for a living CVU and I,
(01:58):
it just naturally makes us askeptic.
We are living in veryinteresting times and there's no
doubt about that.
There's no shortage of news andyet, you see, the markets keep
going up.
(02:19):
Cautious, diversified investoruh, yes, I, I do look at the
frothiness in the market and I'mconcerned, so that's the
reason my clients are investedin high quality, cautious, very
diversified portfolio, becausethe world that we're living in
you just don't know what's thatone catalyst that will, uh,
(02:43):
that'll, pop the bubble thatwe're in?
But it's actually quitewelcoming to see this year the
markets rally quite broadeningaway from what we saw in 2023
and 2024.
Yet we still are in a veryconcentrated market, but it's at
least a relief to see theinternational markets doing well
(03:04):
and sort of broadening.
But, yes, skeptic indeed, andskeptic on everything that's
happening around us.
Steve Davenport (03:13):
Can you help our listeners understand this
term OCIO, Outsourced ChiefInvestment Officer ?
My partner works doing that atCirca.
But can you tell me, and tellour listeners, a little bit
about what is an OCIO and how dothe how does it make a
(03:37):
difference for a small firm thatmight be trying to do too many
things.
You can come in and help themwith one of the main parts of
their their RIA business?
Aradhana Kejriwal (03:50):
So, as you mentioned, OCIO outsourced chief
investment officer, um, so, um,I run an OCIO firm and so one
should think about an OCIO firmas a dedicated investment
department is tailored to theadvisory firm's clients.
The investment philosophy wouldbe aligned and it would be
(04:30):
aligned and also be aligned withyour planning process.
An OCIO firm would do themanager due diligence.
So that would basically digdeeper than the basics and do
very thorough due diligence sothat it helps you avoid
surprises and you're just notrelying on some star ratings to
find a manager.
You're actually doing thein-depth due diligence.
(04:53):
You're doing ongoing marketanalysis, so the strategies that
the advisory firm is offeringstays relevant.
And, of course, as an OCIO firm, there's support for other
investment-related activities orneeds.
Like you know, there are anyclient questions.
There are prospect reviews,there's trading rebalancing
(05:14):
questions, looking atrebalancing softwares, things
like that.
So the point is not to take overthe advisory firm's client
relationships.
It's basically to over theadvisory firm's client
relationships.
It's basically to give theadvisory firm and the advisors
the freedom to focus on theclients.
(05:35):
So instead of dividing for anadvisory firm, instead of them
dividing their time betweenclient meetings and then coming
back to investment modeling,you're sort of staying in the
lane of being the relationshipmanager with your end clients,
knowing that the investment sideis handled.
So that's typically the role ofan OCIO and I think the biggest
(05:59):
differentiator by having anOCIO in this very crowded
advisory marketplace is that youcan offer the same depth and
sophistication as a larger firmwithout really sacrificing a
boutique feel.
You have a CFA on staff withoutpaying the big dollars and
(06:21):
you're you get the same level uhof sophistication.
Uh, you're walking into client,like the advisor can walk into
a client meeting, knowing thatyou have very current, very
well-researched answers uh toquestions on the market,
environment, the risk, theopportunities.
So you're, you're, uh,essentially more focused.
(06:45):
The advisor is more focused onthe quality of the relationships
with their end clients and nothave to worry about the
investment piece.
So I think that's really wherethe differentiator comes from
for the advisory firm, becausethe quality that they're
offering to their clients justjumps to a whole different level
.
Steve Davenport (07:05):
Yeah, it sounds like it's more about enhancing
and augmenting than it is aboutreplacing, because I think
specialization, especially inour industry, is important and
you can try to be all things toall people, but it ends up that
somebody has to suffer and Ithink that people who start out
(07:26):
as planners or accountantsthat's really where their heart
is in a lot of cases.
So, the other part about tradingand making some of these
choices, I think it's a greatway for a firm to look and feel
bigger and focus their energieson the things that really bring
them more joy.
Feel bigger and focus theirenergies on the things that
(07:47):
really bring them more joy.
I think this whole space isgetting very, very complicated
because, I mean, I don't knowabout you, but I feel like the
RIA industry and AI are going togo through a very big
transition.
Do you have any early feelingsabout AI and the advisor, or do
you find it's way too early toget into that kind of thinking
(08:11):
and that we're being fearfulabout something we don't really
know?
Aradhana Kejriwal (08:16):
No, I think AI is very relevant to our
practice and it is one that weall should be adapting.
I don't see it as a threat.
I see it as a companion becauseit makes you more efficient,
right?
So you talk about things likeinvestment, committee minutes,
(08:40):
note-taking right Now you getlike minutes within right after
the meeting.
The minutes are produced withthe things to do, and all of
that because there's so manygood apps out there that can
help you.
Ai can help you do a lot ofthings that can help you make
(09:02):
you more efficient.
So I think I see that as acompanion.
Can AI really replace what ourend advisors are doing for their
clients?
I don't believe so.
You cannot replace a humanbeing's instinct in managing a
client relationship.
I cannot see AI sort of takingthat over, because, as advisors
(09:25):
in our business, you know theadvisors have a close
relationships with their endclients.
You can't have a machinetalking to the end client, so I
cannot see AI sort of takingover that element.
And we've read so many things onthe behavioral side that AI is
(09:48):
sending some wrong prompts,which is causing people to take
some extreme steps, is a greatcompanion and making business
practices more efficient, moreeffective.
You know managing time in amuch better way so that you can
(10:11):
focus on things that are moreimportant, like managing client
relationships.
So I feel that there is a placein business.
And then, of course, if youkind of pivot to the, the
trading element or thetechnology element, ai is just
helping so much in developingpresentations, things that would
(10:32):
take you much longer, or, youknow, just sort of summarizing
big white papers that are outthere.
I mean, there's so much ofbenefit from AI.
So I think it's sort of lookingat the glass half full, half
empty, and I tend to look at thehalf full.
Steve Davenport (10:51):
Yeah, I mean even two old guys like me and
Clem.
I mean, when we started thispodcast, they asked us if we
wanted an AI transcript from thecall, and I'm like what?
And then I looked at how itrecorded the voices, interpreted
(11:11):
the tone of one voice versusanother, to know that the person
has changed.
Like it's not perfect, believeme, it still gets a little
confused about capitalizing.
I still don't know why itdoesn't capitalize, certain
words and doesn't do certainthings, but it really is an
amazing feature when you cantake an hour-long podcast and
(11:32):
transcribe all of theconversations and attribute them
, mostly correctly, to thedifferent people.
I mean, I think for people whocan't listen to the podcast and
want to read it, it's atremendous asset to be able to
do some of these things.
And I think of it as only goingto help us.
(11:55):
And I don't think,population-wise, there's going
to be enough advisors for people.
So I think we're going to see ashortage because there's quite a
few advisors in that 65 and uprange who are looking to sell
their practices.
And if they sell theirpractices to someone else, well,
now that practice has twice asmany people and twice as many
(12:18):
clients and they're going tohave to get more efficient.
It's not like I don't thinkthat we're running out of people
and AI is going to eateveryone's lunch.
I have a feeling that peoplewho do it well will be able to
communicate better, will be ableto send out.
You know, I can ask AI to writeone of our blogs and say, hey,
(12:40):
talk about this concept and talkabout and you, you know you can
develop some pretty goodmaterials.
I don't think that they're asgood as the human writer and my
partner and I argue about.
You know whether I couldreplace him with a chat gpt, but
we, uh, you know it comes downto having the right perspective
(13:03):
and having experience and Ibelieve people who make a
difference and make clients feelat home and make clients feel
confident.
It's it's not going to happenfrom a bot, so um, so I think
that's very interesting.
What are the main things thatyou think about in terms of your
(13:23):
advantage as an OCIO?
What's your special sauce?
Aradhana Kejriwal (13:31):
Yeah.
So the differentiator between meand any of the larger TAMs or
OCIO firms out there is thecustomization that PIC offers to
its clients.
So it's not just cookie cuttersolutions being delivered, it's
(13:53):
deliberate, customized solutions, deliverables with the same
depth and sophistication thatyou would get from a larger firm
, but without sacrificing theadvisory firm's boutique feel.
So I think that is the biggestthing that PIC offers and that's
(14:17):
what I believe why clientschoose PIC?
Because they've sort of feelthat the investment department
you know the investmentdepartment is sitting inside
their office and not sittingoutside and and and so I think
that's, um, that's the biggestfeel.
And, of course, you know,because, uh, because uh, pic is
(14:38):
a much uh sort of smaller, uh,more niche in in a more niche
phase.
You know the follow-ups aremore quick and they're more
thoughtful.
And you know my advisoryclients are not feeling that
they're just, you know, gettinga 50,000 foot view answer.
They're getting a verythoughtful answer that is
(15:00):
catered to their end clients.
So I think that's what makesthe biggest difference between
hiring a boutique firm andhiring one of the large OCIOs.
Steve Davenport (15:12):
No, I think that your perspective with
regard to clients and thebehavioral aspects and your
experience at Joyn and some ofyour other experiences in your
career have put you in a uniqueposition to give a good
perspective.
I'd also say that yourcommitment to the community and
to women and to people coming onboard that you help in India is
(15:38):
an inspiration to a lot ofpeople.
I have to say, the way thatwe've tried to shape how CFAs
are perceived in the communityand how we can be offsetting to
some of the negativity aroundfinance and investments.
(16:02):
I think is the future, and Ithink advisors need to think
about their community just asmuch as they think about their
clients, because I think thatone helps the other right.
If you help an advisory firmbecome a little more rounded and
show some of the personalitiesof the firm and how they're
(16:22):
committed to this cause becauseof a parent or this cause
because of a child, it shows usas not just numbers machines
that crank out an answer.
When they say, what's my risk,we tell them you know it's the
14.4.
I think we say, well, there'smany ways to measure risk and we
(16:42):
want to do it in a way thatmeans the most to you, and I
think that your process of doingthat, has got to make every
firm you touch better right.
Aradhana Kejriwal (16:57):
Yes, thank you.
If you think about the CFAcharter and what that has taught
us, you know, definitely wehave that strong technical
foundation right.
That's what, when we talk aboutrisk, like you said, we're not
just looking at risk just from aperformance standpoint, but
looking at risk from 50different ways to look at risk.
(17:19):
Was it fees?
Is it liquidity?
Is it concentration, whateverit is right?
Risk Was it fees?
Is it liquidity, is itconcentration, whatever it is
right?
So we're looking.
So the charter has given us thatvery, very strong foundation
and a deep knowledge from aninvestment standpoint.
And you know, and the ethics,the ethical training that you
(17:40):
and I have gone through andeverybody else who has a CFA
charter has gone through.
So I think all of that isextremely important, as you and
I have built our careers andhave built our individual
practices to establishcredibility right.
So I think that's one of thebiggest skill sets that we've
(18:01):
gotten from the charter and theprogram, that we've stayed
curious.
We apply these skills inreal-world scenarios.
We are, you know, in whatever,and that's sort of what we're
delivering to our clients.
You know the trust, thecredibility and the technical
skills and, of course, you knowyou talked about the behavioral
(18:21):
part of it and we focus on thatas well.
You know you look at the charternow it's sort of morphing more
to adapt to the AI environment.
So I think there are a lot oflot of good things that we as
CFA charter holders bring to ourcareers and be built over time,
along with, of course, theexperience.
You know you worked at variousbanks, I worked at various banks
(18:43):
.
You know you worked at variousbanks, I worked at various banks
.
You know we both have worked inadvisory practices.
So you know, of courseexperience is there.
And then so you add the CFAcharter and the experience
together and that's, I think,what we're delivering and making
it more making our clients feelthat you know, when they're
(19:05):
hiring us, they can trust thatwe'll deliver with full
integrity.
Steve Davenport (19:12):
Yes, I think it's one thing to have a person
who's completely technicallysound and I think the CFA does a
good job of giving you thebroad base of knowledge to help
do that but I think ultimatelyit's about the relationship
stupid.
You know what I mean.
It's kind of like you can haveall the knowledge but if it's
(19:35):
not communicated and it's notorganized and it's not meant to
satisfy the client need, it'sjust noise, absolutely client
need, it's just noise.
Aradhana Kejriwal (19:43):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Steve Davenport (19:45):
I like to think that we want less noise in our
life and we want simplicity andwe want balance and those things
come from somebody who'sthoughtful, developing a
solution that is customized andboutique.
And I know that everybody wouldlike to say just 80% S&P index
(20:05):
and 20% the ag and go to sleepfor 20 years, and there are some
advisors doing that.
But I think the advisors whoare really making an impact with
clients are thinking abouttiming, thinking about college,
thinking about their children,how they save for college and
how they get through some of thefinancial hurdles in life.
(20:26):
That's what makes people sleepbetter at night is knowing that
they're and I love the fact thatthere's so many good statistics
about and people who have anadvisor are much less likely to
make a mistake and they're muchmore likely to feel confident
about their finances becausethey're just.
You know it's hard if you're anindividual today and both of you
(20:49):
are working and you've gotthree kids and there's just a
lot going on with soccer and youknow volleyball and all the uh
challenges of life and I I justthink that you're.
You know you're not trying todo your own dental work.
You're not trying to do yourown.
You know heart surgery, yougive it up to a specialist, and
(21:14):
I think the same is true aboutyour money, and so I think it's
really important to find anerodner or someone at a firm who
can, you know, help make yourfinancial journey a little less
cumbersome.
Um, I know you spend a lot oftime with dei and personally
you're involved in helping a lotof women.
(21:36):
Um, can you kind of give me a?
You know what's the status 2025?
Dei in finance, dei in society?
Like, how are you feeling?
Are you feeling discouraged bythe current administration?
Are you feeling like it's likethe world has kind of gone in
(21:57):
the opposite direction to makeprogress?
What are you feeling?
Aradhana Kejriwal (22:02):
So I will say , as a true CFA charterholder, I
focus on data versus oneverything that's happening from
a noise standpoint, if I maysay so, with the current
administration.
So if you look at data rightand just demographics, women
will control a much larger shareof wealth and investable assets
(22:26):
than there's ever been, right?
So US women?
So there's that McKinsey studythat said US women right now are
controlling.
Projections are that they willcontrol about 34 trillion of
investable assets.
That's about 38% of the USassets.
That is out there, right?
So if women control more assets, then their investment
(22:51):
preferences, their risktolerance, their goals matter
more.
Right?
So firms should be tuned to theneeds of women.
So better advisory approaches,better tailored wealth and
behavioral and investmentservices really, really matter.
So if that is the case, then asfemale controlled wealth grows,
(23:18):
you need to have that pipelineof having more women advisors or
having more women in theinvestment field.
It becomes even more and morenecessary.
So what has worked is probablynot going to work in the future,
because women are going to bein control of more money, so
(23:42):
they're going to be in controlof more money.
You cannot just ignore them.
You have to develop thatpipeline, right?
So you have to have moreregulatory, more industry
pressures to to bridge thatgender gap that we see right now
.
I think there should be morethoughtful leadership.
There should be moretransparent hiring decisions,
(24:05):
more education in the schools.
You know, you and I have beenvery, very passionately involved
also in financial literacy andgoing and talking in schools and
, of course, DEI efforts.
And that's not to say that Idon't believe in merit-based
hiring.
I of don't believe inmerit-based hiring.
I of course believe inmerit-based hiring.
(24:27):
But at the same time I believethat when you're doing
merit-based hiring, there shouldbe that equal opportunity given
to women.
And if you just follow thesimple principle of follow the
money and if the projectionsfrom a demographic standpoint
say more money with women, thenyou need to be focused more on
(24:47):
women now so that 10, 20, 15years from now, when we get to
that point, we're not scrambling.
Steve Davenport (24:54):
Right, I think it's very important.
I mean, I mean you're preachingto the converted.
I believe the woman and theirnatural you know, their natural
ability to nurture and tosupport and to educate make them
the ideal advisor.
And what I found mostcompelling was when I started
(25:15):
talking about financial literacy10 years ago and creating the
foundation and I said you know,I don't know who's going to come
out, I don't know who's goingto answer the call, I don't know
who's going to give us money, Idon't know what this is going
to be.
I'm just going to go ahead anddo it and see what happens and
see how much impact we can have.
And 80% of our volunteers forthe foundation were one, and so
(25:41):
the CFA society has 20% womenand 80% men.
So you can see there'ssomething different there.
And what my belief is and Ithink it's coming true is we
have a resource here that isdesigned to make people feel
comfortable and make people feelmore in touch with their money
(26:05):
and make people feel more intouch with their money.
And what we've done is, bycreating a harsher and more
competitive and more high-pacedfinancial industry, we've
alienated half of the populationthat we should have engaged
with us in this effort, and Ibelieve that we're going to see
more and more women and more andmore women are going to
(26:26):
emphasize the need for financialliteracy.
And I was just really glad I hadGene Natale on from Troutwood
at the Pittsburgh CFA and youknow he's saying that 60 percent
of students in the UnitedStates now have a high school
requirement for financialliteracy.
I remember 10 years ago thatwas like 10.
(26:48):
So I think we're moving in theright direction and a lot of it
has to do with women and theirdesire to make things better for
those who come after them.
So I guess I'd like to kind ofgo towards your money story,
because we like to talk about ifAradna was getting out of high
(27:12):
school or in high school andtrying to decide what you could
do.
So what would you do today,whether it might be different or
the same as what you did?
And tell me, is there somebodyin your life that came along
that said hey, look, aradhana,you're very good at this, this
and this.
I think you know you could.
(27:33):
I want to help you to be theperson you can be.
Tell me the Aradhana storyabout money.
Aradhana Kejriwal (27:41):
Yeah, no, that's a great, great question,
steve, and you know I would.
I kind of would start with thefinancial literacy part of it,
because I think the reason we'redoing so much with the
foundation and financialliteracy is because generally
women are less confidentinvestors.
(28:02):
That is changing and that's whyeducation is very important and
for us to go and empower andeducate women from a high school
level is extremely important.
So the 60% data that yousuggested is really a good one.
So when I look back and I seeyou know what sort of made me go
(28:23):
through my career.
I started investing at a very,very young age and a lot of that
came from my parents and my momand just seeing her.
So I definitely was raised by avery, very strong woman and
(28:44):
even my dad, so very supportive,very strong woman and even my
dad, so very supportive, verystrong household, which sort of
gave me the freedom to exploreand do anything I wanted.
So I wasn't sort of pigeonholedthat you know I need to be an
engineer or a doctor.
I was given that freedom.
Steve Davenport (29:02):
Do you?
Aradhana Kejriwal (29:02):
have any brothers.
My sister is an engineer andshe's in computer science and
she sort of followed theatypical route that you see in
the asian community and she'sshe's done marvelous in her life
as well.
Um, as far as you know, when Ichose to go the finance route, I
just loved investing and thiswas in pre um um was.
(29:25):
You know, I started managingmoney right before the tech
bubble.
You know the start of the techbubble.
So I kind of saw that whole thebuildup of that bubble and that
sort of that burst and ittaught me so much about
long-term investing.
You know the sort of the greed,the greed and the fear that that
(29:48):
rules investing and that makespeople capitulate.
So I learned those lessons very, very early on.
I learned very early on alsothat that, as a woman, we tend
to invest a little bitdifferently in the sense that
we're more risk aware.
I wouldn't say conservative asmuch, but more risk aware is the
(30:11):
term I would use.
So I think that really reallyhelped shape how I manage money
today with a very, very keen eyetowards behavioral, towards
being aware of human behavior,because no matter how sound you
are, it's our emotions, it's ourgreed and fear that makes a
(30:34):
difference, right?
Steve Davenport (30:35):
Right.
You've got to recognize it inorder to address it.
Absolutely, I think that a lotof men just say I'm going to get
to the answer, address it.
I think that a lot of men justsay I'm going to get to the
answer, and I think that we needto kind of look at the process
and try to make the process alittle more flexible, instead of
saying here's the answer.
(30:56):
And I think that we're allstarting.
I think we learn from each otherand I've learned a lot from the
other officers at the CFA, likeyou and some of Kathy Christman
and some of the other peoplethat were just phenomenal at
kind of bringing their own brandof investing, and I think that
(31:17):
there is multi.
You know there is no one way,there is no silver bullet, and I
think that the realization andthe comfort that you're going to
have to you know, adjust and beflexible, um, I think, is a lot
of men and I'm not going to,you know, qualify.
(31:37):
Everyone has an idea of how youget to the end, and some it's
much more of a cooperativejourney and some people it's
more of an individual journey,and I think that when we look at
some of the great womeninvestors, you can tell that
they were very good at improvingthe board's overall rationale
(31:59):
and how they looked at things,instead of just saying we're
going to go with whoever shoutsthe loudest and whoever has the
strongest opinions.
I think that we all realizethat balancing opinions and
balancing ideas leads to betterresults.
Aradhana Kejriwal (32:16):
I couldn't agree more, and I think one of
the biggest things that womenbring to the table is and one of
the lessons that I learnedgrowing up is just being curious
and asking questions, becurious and be humble.
So, like you said, if you arehumble and flexible and you're
not the kinds who says I knowwhat I'm doing and I know I'm
(32:38):
doing it the right way and I'mnot going to change it, that's
where you lead to poordecision-making.
And I think, as a woman and notto say that men don't do it,
many men do it as well andthat's where you lead to poor
decision making.
And I think, as a woman, um,and not to say that men don't do
it, many men do it as well andthat's what makes them great
investors, you know.
Challenge your own process,make it better, be humble,
recognize that you're human andyou're subject to the same
(33:00):
emotions that someone else is.
And we better we become, youknow, even though technically we
are.
We have charters, so we'retechnically have more experience
, but I think what makes usbetter investors is the fact
that we recognize our, ourconstraints, and we try to
(33:21):
develop processes that are moretransparent and disciplined, to
question ourselves and say, okay, what is the other sideline?
So I think you know I'mactually quite encouraged by the
fact that the data shows that.
You know more wealth with womenwould, and typically money is
(33:42):
what sort of takes everything,as you know, the change that
that is that should be comingand will come eventually is
going to come because you knowwomen are going to own more
wealth, but also folks like youand the Aspen Foundation, what
you started, you know thepipelines we're building, all of
that.
You know grassroots endeavorslike this is what makes the
(34:08):
difference.
You know Right.
Steve Davenport (34:09):
And that's what we're trying to do here with
the podcast as well, is getpeople to listen, get people you
know, and if a woman listens tothis podcast and now feels more
confident about addressing this, you know this career.
You know this career.
You know I don't know how many,how many women listeners we
have.
We have a lot of data on youknow the people's URLs and which
(34:34):
cities are downloading, but Ithink that you know.
All I can say is it can putgood things out into the
universe.
I think somebody receives them,and those who receive them
usually will share with others,and that's what we do.
So I guess receive them usuallywill share with others, and
that's what we do.
So I guess.
Is there any last thoughts youhave about women investing the
the markets?
How do you, how would you leavewith a advice to a radna 2.0
(34:58):
who's 21 years old and has justgraduated from college?
Aradhana Kejriwal (35:03):
So I'll say two things.
One, if you're a Rana 2.0 woman, remember, most home budgets
are managed by a woman.
So there's no reason why, whena woman can manage her home
budget so effectively, why awoman cannot manage money
outside her home.
(35:23):
There is absolutely no reason.
So one is as competent, a womanis as competent.
If she's competent inside thehouse, she's equally competent
outside her house.
Steve Davenport (35:36):
So so don't say , say it loud, I have two
daughters, so I've, I've, soI've learned this the hard way,
right?
I appreciate it.
Aradhana Kejriwal (35:52):
Yes, absolutely.
So I really feel there's noreason to shy, and especially in
our industry, which has acertain image.
But I feel, as a woman, webring a lot of good things to
the industry.
So I would love for ourpipeline to be the reverse at
(36:13):
some point, where we're not just20% women and 80% men, you know
, may there be a time where it'sthe other way, or at least a
parody, because we know we canand and we should and we
shouldn't shy this is not justwe shouldn't shy behind the fact
that it's just a man's world,it is, uh, a person's world
(36:37):
which has both men and women.
So I'd leave it, I'm excuse me,I'd leave the podcast with that
thought that never second guessyourself.
Steve Davenport (36:48):
You know, I think that's great advice.
I mean, I think that there's alot of people who are fearful of
what they don't know.
In investing, I try to learn asmuch as I can about the things
I'm planting, because if I wantthem to live and thrive, I got
(37:08):
to go outside my regular circle.
The first step and the firststep is you know what I mean,
try something.
Try, try investing in in thatindex fund and that, and then
(37:39):
say, okay, now I understand thatI'm going to invest
internationally.
And and then say, okay, youknow, I I really believe that
India is an economy.
I'm going to buy the Indian ETF.
I mean, I'd love to hear your.
Last thing I forgot to mentionwas the work you do with women
quarterly on calls about careersand finance and stuff.
Can you talk about that for aminute?
Aradhana Kejriwal (37:59):
Yes, yes, sure.
So thank you for mentioningthat.
So I do quarterly calls inIndia with students in India
that are thinking about the CFAprogram or are thinking about
the MBA program and want to knowwhy doing a CFA is better and
(38:22):
how.
You know how I've sort of gonethrough my career of going
through working at differentbanks and sort of you know
jumping very early on in mycareer to get as much experience
as I could.
So they, so I do a lot of callswith them, sort of talking
about giving them career advice.
You know, and this is like Isaid, be curious, be humble and
(38:46):
be curious, be humble and alwayslook to grow.
And so I do.
I do that.
I typically get about 100, 150students every quarter that are
exploring careers and finance.
So so it's great.
Steve Davenport (39:02):
I mean, that's 500 people who have had somebody
reach back and try to lift themup.
I mean it's inspiring whatyou're doing around, and I'd
love to stay in touch and haveyou back here if you've enjoyed
this as much as I have, becauseI think your perspective is
refreshing and I think that weall have to figure out a way to
(39:23):
touch someone, that we all haveto figure out a way to touch
someone, and I guess I'd endthis podcast that way, in saying
this is a great example ofpeople having different views
and different ways to attacktheir lives, and we'd love you
to share this.
We'd love you to talk to yourfriends and talk to your
neighbors about some of theideas we propose here on
(39:45):
Skeptic's Guide, and we want tokeep making everyone's lives
better.
So thank you everybody forlistening and we appreciate your
support and I hope you like thenew format.
We're going out weekly nowinstead of every two weeks, and
I don't know if it makes adifference, but we're trying and
(40:06):
we keep wanting to deliverideas that are current and ideas
that are relevant to help youreach your financial wellness
and improve your investing IQ.
All right, everybody, thanks.
Aradhana Kejriwal (40:19):
Thank you and congratulations on 100 episodes
.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.