August 29, 2024 • 16 mins
What if you could completely reinvent your career and find your true calling in an entirely new field? Former pastor William Kevin Roxton did just that by transitioning into a successful career as a software engineer. Join us as William shares his remarkable story, highlighting the significant challenges he faced and the unwavering determination that fueled his journey from ministry to tech. Learn about the pivotal role his family played, the courage it took to start anew, and how he maintained his core values throughout this transformative process.
Coding isn't just a technical skill; it's a gateway to personal and professional growth. William reveals how learning to code reignited his passion for lifelong learning and opened up countless networking opportunities. Discover the parallels between coding and non-technical hobbies like drumming, and gain insights into the importance of a growth mindset. William's story is a powerful testament to the idea that with grit and determination, anyone can master difficult skills and thrive in a new environment.
Dedication, consistency, and a willingness to embrace challenges are essential for mastering any new skill. William's journey from novice to professional coder serves as an inspiring example. He also shares his aspirations of blending soft skills with technical expertise, recent learnings about the ServiceNow platform, and his efforts to support veterans transitioning to tech careers. We wrap up the episode with heartfelt gratitude for William's insights and a call to action for our audience to rethink hiring practices and share valuable content. Don't miss this episode filled with inspiration, practical advice, and a touch of humor.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What I have is grit, determination and this mindset
that, okay, what coding showedme was that I can learn new
things.
I can learn hard things if Ijust put my head down and really
just grind.
And I hadn't used this part ofmy brain and my skill set in
(00:20):
years.
It was probably either highschool or college the last time
I was really like oh, like Ifeel this, this new sense of
challenge.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Hey everyone, this is Mike Roberts, creator of the
Apprenticeship Playbook, andyou're tuned in to the Skills
First podcast.
In today's world, skills Firsthiring is revolutionizing the
job market and on this show Isit down with trailblazers who
are rethinking hiring practicesand embracing experiential
learning, as well as the peopleimpacted.
(00:52):
Follow along as we dive intotips, innovative ideas and
proven strategies to help younavigate and thrive in the
evolving landscape of modernapprenticeships.
When you're ready, if you couldtell me who you are and what is
it that you do.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
My name is William Kevin Roxton and I am a software
developer, software engineer,and it took a long time to be
able to make and say that phraseon the long journey.
I'm an apprentice here atCreating Coding Careers and,
Mike, again I just want to say ashout out, man, Thank you for
the confidence to be able to saygive me an opportunity to be
here, so I love it.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Awesome.
I appreciate you takingadvantage of the opportunity,
seizing it and just take it off.
So where do you live right now?
Speaker 1 (01:36):
So I'm in Orange County, california.
I lived in Irvine for yearsjust moved down to Lake Forest,
and it's me, my wife and threekiddos, and they keep me busy
between a 12-year-old, a10-year-old and a 18-month-old.
Yeah, we made that move duringthe pandemic.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I think a lot of other people did too, but it's
true, nice.
So what is it that you weredoing before you made this
transition to shift into tech?
What is it that you were doing?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
before you made this transition to shift into tech?
Yeah, so for me, I was inministry full-time.
I was a pastor of onlineengagement and community next
steps in connecting people.
That new title happened rightin the middle of the pandemic
because we had to transition andpivot.
Then we built community online.
I was responsible for buildingup the teams and making sure
folks were connected and stillseen in the midst of all the
craziness that was going on.
But I was a pastor for sevenyears before I transitioned into
(02:28):
tech.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Nice, and so much of that is needed when we have
times like this where there'sjust so much chaos going on.
So much respect for that work.
Appreciate it.
What was one of the biggestchallenges that you faced in
your journey to becoming asoftware engineer?
What was one of the biggestchallenges that you faced in
your journey to becoming asoftware engineer?
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Oh, easily it was that I had no idea what I was
doing, there was no previousexperience, there's no
background in tech.
I was good with computers, Icould figure things out, but in
regards to coding and HTML andCSS and JavaScript, all this
stuff was foreign.
So the hardest part for me wasevery single term was new.
It wasn't like there was onepart of it besides from that.
(03:08):
Keyboard strokes and everythingelse I was okay with.
But outside of that it washaving to overcome the learning
curve of not just learning theterminology but also putting it
into practice.
It's a big learning curve andyou've got to be committed to
stick it through.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah for sure, and yeah, kudos to go.
I'm always in admiration ofpeople that go from zero to 60
versus the people that are likeI dabbled in it for six months
and then gave up and then triedagain for a little while, Like
for people that just get afterit and I'm going to make this
work Like.
I know it's a, like you said,it's a massive amount of work to
just load all that in yourbrain and make any of it make
(03:44):
any sense.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Mike, what you're describing sounds like wisdom to
me.
If I could do it in hindsight,I would definitely try to quit
some stuff at first before justdying to get it first.
But I am one of those dudesthat like if I'm in, I'm
committed, let's go.
I think the scariest part forme was like I thought I was
really good as a pastor, I wasreally good at my job.
And part for me was like Ithought I was really good as a
(04:07):
pastor, I was really good at myjob, and so for me to walk away
from something that I feltconfident in, something that I
knew how to do, something that Ifelt like I excelled in, that
was the scariest part.
To start over and be likeactually I'm going to walk into
this place and I'm going to looklike hot garbage and have to
start from square one and beokay with going through that
transition and being okay withpeople asking a ton of questions
and not knowing things thefirst and second times and
(04:29):
having to do more research andspending more time than other
people might have to do.
But the only way I made thatwas because my wife and I had a
plan and I think during thepandemic, a lot of things like
shifted and became clear.
And there's something abouthaving a third kid looking at
you like, oh, you're going towant to go to college too.
Huh, All right, let's see.
I'll be going to makeeverything work out in balance
(04:55):
and, yeah, we're like, I think,long-term in regards to where we
want to go as a family.
This was the right move and theright call in the time, and the
season was now.
And then I know, for mepersonally, the vocation of a
pastor is just it's how I'mbuilt.
So it doesn't matter where I amand where I'm where.
My kind of like my nine to fiveor my job is how I'm built and
how I'm designed will always be.
That's the vocation, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
And the good thing is , I don't make you work on
Sundays, that's the eveningsright, that's true.
Still fit in Some of that work.
I know not to the same levelfor sure, but like some of that
work, you gotta still fit inSome of that work.
I know not to the same levelfor sure, but like some of that
work.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
So how did you hear about?
How did you hear about thisprogram?
Okay, so I have to take thistime to have to shout out.
And Lou, my wife, made theconnection, but it was Cameron
Klosche.
She is the reason why Iactually with apprenticeshipio,
why I reached out to the program.
She told me about it.
Hey, I just I knew there'sdifferent routes in regards to
getting started.
You might want to hit up Mike,you might want to try to see
what's going on over there.
And I reached out, but I wasn'tas persistent as I was the
(05:50):
second time around and that timeI was like you know what?
Let me really see.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
And when I tell you that she gets the kudos because
she has like me, been like awarrior in this space in terms
of pushing up against the statusquo.
Let's create some opportunitiesin a variety of different ways
(06:14):
in this sort of early careersoftware engineer space.
I met her through Dev Bootcamp,so that was one of the programs
that came to San Diego and Ithink she was with Dev Bootcamp
or there's some tangentialconnection there.
That's when we met way, wayback.
And so how did you?
It was a through apprenticeshipIO that you met cam, or did you
know her from somewhere else?
Speaker 1 (06:34):
No, again, my wife is an overall boss, right?
So, Samantha Broxton, I loveyou.
Thank you, babe.
She's in everything, doingeverything.
So she had the connectionalready you need to talk to Cam.
And I was like, all right,let's do it.
And so we had a 15, 20 minuteconversation and it was enough
for me to be like, okay, it wasimpactful.
I'm like, all right, I need tomake the transition.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
So yeah, nice, all right.
So shout out to Cam, becauseshe just built a brand new
career for somebody that like ohman.
Exactly Passive ship.
Let's shift gears a little bitand talk a little bit about.
Now that you've made thattransition and you're all in,
how do you think Coding has madean impact on you, both
professionally and personally?
Speaker 1 (07:14):
So I know professionally, I've found like
this new wind.
I think the thing about beingin a career that you're used to
and you've got some experiences,is that some things because
you've done it for so long, youhave some experiences that are
part of like autopilot to it,that you just know what to do
and what to navigate and how todeal with certain situations.
I have none of that now.
What I have is grit,determination and this mindset
(07:38):
that, okay, what coding showedme was that I can learn new
things.
I can learn hard things.
If I just put my head down andreally just grind and I hadn't
used this part of my brain andmy skillset in years, like it
was probably either high schoolor college the last time I was
really like, oh, I feel this newsense of challenge, and so
(08:01):
that's what it's done for me.
I think professionally, that wasactually more personally.
I think professionally it'sallowed me to network with some
really cool people and talk tofolks that are eclectic and have
backgrounds that aren't just intech, that didn't just get
their CS degree and graduatefrom there, that actually like,
oh, like they're musicians likeme, are there, they've got other
(08:22):
things that they're passionateabout and they're they see this
as another way to be impactfuland creative.
For me, I was trained to dofull stack in the program that
we went through with creatingcoding careers, but by my bread
and butter, what I love, whatI'll spend hours doing, is front
end stuff, so that's what Ireally love and enjoy the most.
(08:42):
I'll play with CSS for hoursand make tweaks and changes and
adjustments and research andlook yeah, I don't play with CSS
the same kind of way.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
I wrestle with it for hours, but that's a different
story.
One thing I want to pull out alittle bit that you mentioned at
the beginning is that that ideaand concept of almost like
surprising your own self withyour capacity to learn after
you've just been in that spaceof comfort and I think that's
the big fear that a lot ofpeople have is you're stepping
out into something that, likeyou don't know and you're like
(09:11):
the back of your brain is Idon't know, and you're like the
back of your brain is I don'tknow if I can.
I don't know if I can learn fastenough, I don't know if I can,
if I'm too old to learn, if Ican get there again, and so one
of the interesting parallelsthat I found that has surprised
me because, even though, like Idrill this in other people, oh,
you could do this is I picked updrumming over the course of the
pandemic, and to to see havingzero ability to play the drums,
(09:38):
having there's a little capacityto like keep a beat now, is
just like really reinforce thatsame sort of spirit that, like
you, can be a lifelong learner.
Hey, mike, talking to myself,you can be a lifelong learner in
something that is non-technical, that is not a software
engineering thing, and man hasthat resonated.
Hit me hard that yo.
(09:59):
Learning to play the drums mustbe like what it feels like for
people to learn how to code,where you're just like wait,
what's my left hand supposed todo this, while my foot is doing
this thing Correct and you?
Speaker 1 (10:10):
sounded horrible.
Oh, yeah, yeah, there's nocoordination, there's no,
there's no background, and so,like I think, people, you have
to be comfortable, you have tothink enough of yourself to know
that you've got the confidenceto do it and also be humble
enough to know that you're trashat the moment and that's okay,
and that's okay.
Yeah, the objective is not tostay there.
(10:32):
The objective is to put in intowork and the time and through
that repetition, like there's noshortcuts.
I'm sorry, like I've tried.
I've looked as a new personcoming in with no background in
coding.
I really there's gotta be ashort or a better way to know.
It's just time and repetition.
And time and commitment andrepetition and breaking down for
(10:54):
a second and walking away andcoming back and looking at the
game and putting the cycle onrepeat.
That's it.
And over time it'd be like, oh,like I'm building things that I
had no idea how to build a yearago.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
And as humans, I feel like we very quickly forget how
much pain we had to endure toget to where we got good in
anything that we do we like,because you did it so long ago
sometimes that it's just oh man,like that's right, it was
really hard to learn.
Insert whatever thing is thatyou're good at today.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
So I thought that, oh , we had two kids, we've gone
through this parenting thingbefore we got to know how to do
this third one.
Whoa, when I tell you, goingfrom man to zone defense is wild
.
To this cat is different.
These pandemic babies are notnormal.
So this has.
This kid has superhuman strength, he's really smart, he's into
(11:50):
all type of stuff and what itchallenged me is all at the same
time while like realizing, like, oh, there's things that I'm
actually better at now, that Ican handle now and as an older
parent that I had no capacitywith.
I've got wisdom now, but I hada whole bunch of like strength
and stamina back then.
So these late nights and himcrying is killing me as compared
to what was going on before.
(12:11):
But I also watched this littlekid that went from barely being
able to like sit up and thenhold his head up to start
crawling around, and now he'swalking and pulling things and
I'm like, oh no, like I watchedthem struggle with each one of
those steps and now, once he'sgot it, he's killing those steps
and add onto his skill sets,like the process didn't change,
as humans were still doing thatsame thing with different skills
(12:33):
and tools that we pick up alongthe way.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Absolutely so I'm going to ask you this Now that
you've grown so much, what doyou look forward to
professionally?
What's the next sort ofmilestone or thing that you're
reaching towards these days?
Speaker 1 (12:48):
There's a couple of different things.
I think the main thing for meis I'm really looking forward to
this convergence of passionsand skill sets like the things
that I am really good at withthe soft skills and what I take
from there and being able to sitand do a mobbing sessions and
make sure that we're all on thesame page and then, long-term,
being able to get thecorresponding compensation for
(13:10):
all of that work and commitmentputting together.
I know this is the long gamethat I am playing, and I'm
playing it because of my kids.
I'm playing it because I knowwhat it's like to have parents
Like for me.
My father was a carpenter and aminister of music and my mother
was a teacher and so because ofthat, I had access to tips and
(13:32):
stuff with music for my dad andwith education and how to study
and things for my mom, and nowmy kids have a mother who's in
digital product management and afather who is working as a
software engineer and who has abackground in pastoral things,
and they'll have access to allof that knowledge because we're
in these spaces now and I thinkthat, for me, was the biggest
(13:55):
thing was like being able to say, hey for my kids.
They're going to be able towalk into roads and have
conversations that I couldn'thave at their age, because
they're already exposed to itman, you're just dropping so
many little nuggets, so many, somuch gold in them.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Hills, man, I like it , I like it.
So tell me what's the last newthing that you learned, because
we've talked a lot aboutlifelong learning.
What's the last new thing thatyou picked up?
Speaker 1 (14:19):
it's definitely has to be service.
Now, that's been the focus thelast two or three months.
I know that platform isabsolutely like it's bonkers,
what it can do, the depth andthe breadth of what it provides
for its partners and its clients, and for me, it's been diving
into that in my current capacity, working as a teaching
(14:40):
assistant with ServiceNow, withtheir SkillBridge NextGen
program, which has been acomplete I don't know considered
an honor for me to be able toserve our service men and women
who are transitioning out of themilitary into tech, and
veterans and their spouses thatare doing the same, and so it's
been a deep dive into ServiceNowplatforms and putting my head
(15:01):
down and trying to put in thiswork for getting the
certification for the CSA to bea certified service
administrator for ServiceNow,and then there's a bunch of
other searches that come afterthat, and so that's where my
focus has been and will continueto be for the next few months.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Nice and I got to give it to you.
Everything I heard so far isthat you're crushing it over
there at ServiceNow and I got togive it to you.
Everything I heard so far isthat you're crushing it over
there at ServiceNow and shoutout to ServiceNow Great partners
, huge supporters of theapprenticeship patterns.
Yeah, absolutely All right.
Last question, most importantOkay, what's your favorite snack
?
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Okay, so I'm a movie guy so I can live off of like
butter, popcorn and raisinetsand then like an old school
favorite snack that is not wifeapproved at all because she's
all organic and green lemming.
But if you were to sneak me apack of honey roasted peanuts,
we might be best friends firstof all, how is honey roasted
(15:58):
peanuts like on the band list?
Speaker 2 (16:01):
what's the negative uh substance in that it's called
yeah, tons.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
It's basically.
It's honey roasted peanutsthat's coming and it's like
peanuts out of all the movies isdoing.
Is that really what I want toeat?
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I should be eating almonds or everything, but yeah,
no, that's all right, that'sall fair enough, but it is a
great snack, so I willdefinitely see if I can sneak
you a little.
Can I appreciate you, man?
Thanks Will I appreciate youcoming on the program.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Mike, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Thank you.
You've been listening to SkillsFirst, the Apprenticeship
Playbook Podcast.
By the way, if this is valuableto you, don't be lame.
Share the game.
This is how we know you love it.
If you're a company thinkingabout changing how you hire,
(16:57):
please share it so we know thistype of stuff is what you want.
What I have is grit, determination and this mindset
that, okay, what coding showedme was that I can learn new
things.
I can learn hard things if Ijust put my head down and really
just grind.
And I hadn't used this part ofmy brain and my skill set in
(00:20):
years.
It was probably either highschool or college the last time
I was really like oh, like Ifeel this, this new sense of
challenge.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Hey everyone, this is Mike Roberts, creator of the
Apprenticeship Playbook, andyou're tuned in to the Skills
First podcast.
In today's world, skills Firsthiring is revolutionizing the
job market and on this show Isit down with trailblazers who
are rethinking hiring practicesand embracing experiential
learning, as well as the peopleimpacted.
(00:52):
Follow along as we dive intotips, innovative ideas and
proven strategies to help younavigate and thrive in the
evolving landscape of modernapprenticeships.
When you're ready, if you couldtell me who you are and what is
it that you do.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
My name is William Kevin Roxton and I am a software
developer, software engineer,and it took a long time to be
able to make and say that phraseon the long journey.
I'm an apprentice here atCreating Coding Careers and,
Mike, again I just want to say ashout out, man, Thank you for
the confidence to be able to saygive me an opportunity to be
here, so I love it.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Awesome.
I appreciate you takingadvantage of the opportunity,
seizing it and just take it off.
So where do you live right now?
Speaker 1 (01:36):
So I'm in Orange County, california.
I lived in Irvine for yearsjust moved down to Lake Forest,
and it's me, my wife and threekiddos, and they keep me busy
between a 12-year-old, a10-year-old and a 18-month-old.
Yeah, we made that move duringthe pandemic.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I think a lot of other people did too, but it's
true, nice.
So what is it that you weredoing before you made this
transition to shift into tech?
What is it that you were doing?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
before you made this transition to shift into tech?
Yeah, so for me, I was inministry full-time.
I was a pastor of onlineengagement and community next
steps in connecting people.
That new title happened rightin the middle of the pandemic
because we had to transition andpivot.
Then we built community online.
I was responsible for buildingup the teams and making sure
folks were connected and stillseen in the midst of all the
craziness that was going on.
But I was a pastor for sevenyears before I transitioned into
(02:28):
tech.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Nice, and so much of that is needed when we have
times like this where there'sjust so much chaos going on.
So much respect for that work.
Appreciate it.
What was one of the biggestchallenges that you faced in
your journey to becoming asoftware engineer?
What was one of the biggestchallenges that you faced in
your journey to becoming asoftware engineer?
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Oh, easily it was that I had no idea what I was
doing, there was no previousexperience, there's no
background in tech.
I was good with computers, Icould figure things out, but in
regards to coding and HTML andCSS and JavaScript, all this
stuff was foreign.
So the hardest part for me wasevery single term was new.
It wasn't like there was onepart of it besides from that.
(03:08):
Keyboard strokes and everythingelse I was okay with.
But outside of that it washaving to overcome the learning
curve of not just learning theterminology but also putting it
into practice.
It's a big learning curve andyou've got to be committed to
stick it through.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah for sure, and yeah, kudos to go.
I'm always in admiration ofpeople that go from zero to 60
versus the people that are likeI dabbled in it for six months
and then gave up and then triedagain for a little while, Like
for people that just get afterit and I'm going to make this
work Like.
I know it's a, like you said,it's a massive amount of work to
just load all that in yourbrain and make any of it make
(03:44):
any sense.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Mike, what you're describing sounds like wisdom to
me.
If I could do it in hindsight,I would definitely try to quit
some stuff at first before justdying to get it first.
But I am one of those dudesthat like if I'm in, I'm
committed, let's go.
I think the scariest part forme was like I thought I was
really good as a pastor, I wasreally good at my job.
And part for me was like Ithought I was really good as a
(04:07):
pastor, I was really good at myjob, and so for me to walk away
from something that I feltconfident in, something that I
knew how to do, something that Ifelt like I excelled in, that
was the scariest part.
To start over and be likeactually I'm going to walk into
this place and I'm going to looklike hot garbage and have to
start from square one and beokay with going through that
transition and being okay withpeople asking a ton of questions
and not knowing things thefirst and second times and
(04:29):
having to do more research andspending more time than other
people might have to do.
But the only way I made thatwas because my wife and I had a
plan and I think during thepandemic, a lot of things like
shifted and became clear.
And there's something abouthaving a third kid looking at
you like, oh, you're going towant to go to college too.
Huh, All right, let's see.
I'll be going to makeeverything work out in balance
(04:55):
and, yeah, we're like, I think,long-term in regards to where we
want to go as a family.
This was the right move and theright call in the time, and the
season was now.
And then I know, for mepersonally, the vocation of a
pastor is just it's how I'mbuilt.
So it doesn't matter where I amand where I'm where.
My kind of like my nine to fiveor my job is how I'm built and
how I'm designed will always be.
That's the vocation, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
And the good thing is , I don't make you work on
Sundays, that's the eveningsright, that's true.
Still fit in Some of that work.
I know not to the same levelfor sure, but like some of that
work, you gotta still fit inSome of that work.
I know not to the same levelfor sure, but like some of that
work.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
So how did you hear about?
How did you hear about thisprogram?
Okay, so I have to take thistime to have to shout out.
And Lou, my wife, made theconnection, but it was Cameron
Klosche.
She is the reason why Iactually with apprenticeshipio,
why I reached out to the program.
She told me about it.
Hey, I just I knew there'sdifferent routes in regards to
getting started.
You might want to hit up Mike,you might want to try to see
what's going on over there.
And I reached out, but I wasn'tas persistent as I was the
(05:50):
second time around and that timeI was like you know what?
Let me really see.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
And when I tell you that she gets the kudos because
she has like me, been like awarrior in this space in terms
of pushing up against the statusquo.
Let's create some opportunitiesin a variety of different ways
(06:14):
in this sort of early careersoftware engineer space.
I met her through Dev Bootcamp,so that was one of the programs
that came to San Diego and Ithink she was with Dev Bootcamp
or there's some tangentialconnection there.
That's when we met way, wayback.
And so how did you?
It was a through apprenticeshipIO that you met cam, or did you
know her from somewhere else?
Speaker 1 (06:34):
No, again, my wife is an overall boss, right?
So, Samantha Broxton, I loveyou.
Thank you, babe.
She's in everything, doingeverything.
So she had the connectionalready you need to talk to Cam.
And I was like, all right,let's do it.
And so we had a 15, 20 minuteconversation and it was enough
for me to be like, okay, it wasimpactful.
I'm like, all right, I need tomake the transition.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
So yeah, nice, all right.
So shout out to Cam, becauseshe just built a brand new
career for somebody that like ohman.
Exactly Passive ship.
Let's shift gears a little bitand talk a little bit about.
Now that you've made thattransition and you're all in,
how do you think Coding has madean impact on you, both
professionally and personally?
Speaker 1 (07:14):
So I know professionally, I've found like
this new wind.
I think the thing about beingin a career that you're used to
and you've got some experiences,is that some things because
you've done it for so long, youhave some experiences that are
part of like autopilot to it,that you just know what to do
and what to navigate and how todeal with certain situations.
I have none of that now.
What I have is grit,determination and this mindset
(07:38):
that, okay, what coding showedme was that I can learn new
things.
I can learn hard things.
If I just put my head down andreally just grind and I hadn't
used this part of my brain andmy skillset in years, like it
was probably either high schoolor college the last time I was
really like, oh, I feel this newsense of challenge, and so
(08:01):
that's what it's done for me.
I think professionally, that wasactually more personally.
I think professionally it'sallowed me to network with some
really cool people and talk tofolks that are eclectic and have
backgrounds that aren't just intech, that didn't just get
their CS degree and graduatefrom there, that actually like,
oh, like they're musicians likeme, are there, they've got other
(08:22):
things that they're passionateabout and they're they see this
as another way to be impactfuland creative.
For me, I was trained to dofull stack in the program that
we went through with creatingcoding careers, but by my bread
and butter, what I love, whatI'll spend hours doing, is front
end stuff, so that's what Ireally love and enjoy the most.
(08:42):
I'll play with CSS for hoursand make tweaks and changes and
adjustments and research andlook yeah, I don't play with CSS
the same kind of way.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
I wrestle with it for hours, but that's a different
story.
One thing I want to pull out alittle bit that you mentioned at
the beginning is that that ideaand concept of almost like
surprising your own self withyour capacity to learn after
you've just been in that spaceof comfort and I think that's
the big fear that a lot ofpeople have is you're stepping
out into something that, likeyou don't know and you're like
(09:11):
the back of your brain is Idon't know, and you're like the
back of your brain is I don'tknow if I can.
I don't know if I can learn fastenough, I don't know if I can,
if I'm too old to learn, if Ican get there again, and so one
of the interesting parallelsthat I found that has surprised
me because, even though, like Idrill this in other people, oh,
you could do this is I picked updrumming over the course of the
pandemic, and to to see havingzero ability to play the drums,
(09:38):
having there's a little capacityto like keep a beat now, is
just like really reinforce thatsame sort of spirit that, like
you, can be a lifelong learner.
Hey, mike, talking to myself,you can be a lifelong learner in
something that is non-technical, that is not a software
engineering thing, and man hasthat resonated.
Hit me hard that yo.
(09:59):
Learning to play the drums mustbe like what it feels like for
people to learn how to code,where you're just like wait,
what's my left hand supposed todo this, while my foot is doing
this thing Correct and you?
Speaker 1 (10:10):
sounded horrible.
Oh, yeah, yeah, there's nocoordination, there's no,
there's no background, and so,like I think, people, you have
to be comfortable, you have tothink enough of yourself to know
that you've got the confidenceto do it and also be humble
enough to know that you're trashat the moment and that's okay,
and that's okay.
Yeah, the objective is not tostay there.
(10:32):
The objective is to put in intowork and the time and through
that repetition, like there's noshortcuts.
I'm sorry, like I've tried.
I've looked as a new personcoming in with no background in
coding.
I really there's gotta be ashort or a better way to know.
It's just time and repetition.
And time and commitment andrepetition and breaking down for
(10:54):
a second and walking away andcoming back and looking at the
game and putting the cycle onrepeat.
That's it.
And over time it'd be like, oh,like I'm building things that I
had no idea how to build a yearago.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
And as humans, I feel like we very quickly forget how
much pain we had to endure toget to where we got good in
anything that we do we like,because you did it so long ago
sometimes that it's just oh man,like that's right, it was
really hard to learn.
Insert whatever thing is thatyou're good at today.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
So I thought that, oh , we had two kids, we've gone
through this parenting thingbefore we got to know how to do
this third one.
Whoa, when I tell you, goingfrom man to zone defense is wild
.
To this cat is different.
These pandemic babies are notnormal.
So this has.
This kid has superhuman strength, he's really smart, he's into
(11:50):
all type of stuff and what itchallenged me is all at the same
time while like realizing, like, oh, there's things that I'm
actually better at now, that Ican handle now and as an older
parent that I had no capacitywith.
I've got wisdom now, but I hada whole bunch of like strength
and stamina back then.
So these late nights and himcrying is killing me as compared
to what was going on before.
(12:11):
But I also watched this littlekid that went from barely being
able to like sit up and thenhold his head up to start
crawling around, and now he'swalking and pulling things and
I'm like, oh no, like I watchedthem struggle with each one of
those steps and now, once he'sgot it, he's killing those steps
and add onto his skill sets,like the process didn't change,
as humans were still doing thatsame thing with different skills
(12:33):
and tools that we pick up alongthe way.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Absolutely so I'm going to ask you this Now that
you've grown so much, what doyou look forward to
professionally?
What's the next sort ofmilestone or thing that you're
reaching towards these days?
Speaker 1 (12:48):
There's a couple of different things.
I think the main thing for meis I'm really looking forward to
this convergence of passionsand skill sets like the things
that I am really good at withthe soft skills and what I take
from there and being able to sitand do a mobbing sessions and
make sure that we're all on thesame page and then, long-term,
being able to get thecorresponding compensation for
(13:10):
all of that work and commitmentputting together.
I know this is the long gamethat I am playing, and I'm
playing it because of my kids.
I'm playing it because I knowwhat it's like to have parents
Like for me.
My father was a carpenter and aminister of music and my mother
was a teacher and so because ofthat, I had access to tips and
(13:32):
stuff with music for my dad andwith education and how to study
and things for my mom, and nowmy kids have a mother who's in
digital product management and afather who is working as a
software engineer and who has abackground in pastoral things,
and they'll have access to allof that knowledge because we're
in these spaces now and I thinkthat, for me, was the biggest
(13:55):
thing was like being able to say, hey for my kids.
They're going to be able towalk into roads and have
conversations that I couldn'thave at their age, because
they're already exposed to itman, you're just dropping so
many little nuggets, so many, somuch gold in them.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Hills, man, I like it , I like it.
So tell me what's the last newthing that you learned, because
we've talked a lot aboutlifelong learning.
What's the last new thing thatyou picked up?
Speaker 1 (14:19):
it's definitely has to be service.
Now, that's been the focus thelast two or three months.
I know that platform isabsolutely like it's bonkers,
what it can do, the depth andthe breadth of what it provides
for its partners and its clients, and for me, it's been diving
into that in my current capacity, working as a teaching
(14:40):
assistant with ServiceNow, withtheir SkillBridge NextGen
program, which has been acomplete I don't know considered
an honor for me to be able toserve our service men and women
who are transitioning out of themilitary into tech, and
veterans and their spouses thatare doing the same, and so it's
been a deep dive into ServiceNowplatforms and putting my head
(15:01):
down and trying to put in thiswork for getting the
certification for the CSA to bea certified service
administrator for ServiceNow,and then there's a bunch of
other searches that come afterthat, and so that's where my
focus has been and will continueto be for the next few months.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Nice and I got to give it to you.
Everything I heard so far isthat you're crushing it over
there at ServiceNow and I got togive it to you.
Everything I heard so far isthat you're crushing it over
there at ServiceNow and shoutout to ServiceNow Great partners
, huge supporters of theapprenticeship patterns.
Yeah, absolutely All right.
Last question, most importantOkay, what's your favorite snack
?
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Okay, so I'm a movie guy so I can live off of like
butter, popcorn and raisinetsand then like an old school
favorite snack that is not wifeapproved at all because she's
all organic and green lemming.
But if you were to sneak me apack of honey roasted peanuts,
we might be best friends firstof all, how is honey roasted
(15:58):
peanuts like on the band list?
Speaker 2 (16:01):
what's the negative uh substance in that it's called
yeah, tons.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
It's basically.
It's honey roasted peanutsthat's coming and it's like
peanuts out of all the movies isdoing.
Is that really what I want toeat?
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I should be eating almonds or everything, but yeah,
no, that's all right, that'sall fair enough, but it is a
great snack, so I willdefinitely see if I can sneak
you a little.
Can I appreciate you, man?
Thanks Will I appreciate youcoming on the program.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Mike, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Thank you.
You've been listening to SkillsFirst, the Apprenticeship
Playbook Podcast.
By the way, if this is valuableto you, don't be lame.
Share the game.
This is how we know you love it.
If you're a company thinkingabout changing how you hire,
(16:57):
please share it so we know thistype of stuff is what you want.
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