Growing Through Grief With Jo Beth

One would think that an episode about grief would in-fact be a downer of an episode. But no no no. This is gone in true Skirts Up form. Deep, raw, emotional conversation In the most loving yet entertaining way. Its a gift. You're welcome.

Jo Beth Evans dive deep into the multifaceted world of grief and healing. Jo Beth, an esteemed grief specialist from NWA, shares her personal journey through tremendous loss, highlighting the transformative power of resilience and proactive recovery. With a heartfelt story about losing her husband to terminal brain cancer, Jo Beth opens up about the emotional turmoil and the steps she took to rebuild her life, emphasizing the importance of seeking help and taking actionable steps towards healing.

Jo Beth sheds light on the misconceptions surrounding the stages of grief and offers a more holistic approach to understanding and navigating personal loss, whether it be from death, divorce, or even the loss of a beloved pet. The conversation touches on essential aspects such as the need for basic self-care, the significance of community support, and the invaluable role of professional guidance. Listeners will find solace in the shared experiences and gain practical advice on how to avoid the pitfalls of unhealthy coping mechanisms.

By addressing societal expectations and the pervasive sense of guilt that often accompanies grief, this episode empowers listeners to break free from the victim mentality and embrace a mindset of growth and empowerment. Jo Beth’s unique six-month recovery program, which includes comprehensive grief education, one-on-one support through the Marco Polo app, and facilitated connections with other grievers, serves as a testament to her commitment to guiding others towards a brighter future.

Tune in to discover how embracing vulnerability, establishing a strong support system, and maintaining a forward-focused attitude can turn even the darkest times into periods of profound personal growth. Whether you're currently facing grief or seeking to support a loved one through it, this episode provides the tools and inspiration to move forward with purpose and strength.

** If you or someone you know is lost in the throws of grief, Check out Jo Beth's program and don't forget to mention that Skirts Up

• Per usual, follow us and RATE and Review!!

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hey, you.
You're tuned in to the Skirtsup show with Samantha and Melissa.
Join our mission to normalizefailure, but still uncover the positives
at every twist and turn.
Skirts up, but keep yourpanties on. What's up, Skirts up
squad?
It's Samantha and Melissa.

(00:21):
We're back for another episodeon Mental Health Awareness Month.
So today we share aconversation that we had with Jo
Beth, who really, we have aserious yet humorous conversation
with her about grieving. Andit's just really educational and,

(00:42):
like, you don't feel likeyou're alone, which actually what
everyone should know is thatwe have Jobeth as an affiliate now.
So if you guys feel like youneed help and guidance and grief
and. And you're ready to justtackle on how to, you know, handle
your new life, because you'renot going to be the same after grief.

(01:06):
Whether it's grief because youlost a dog or grief because you lost
a human, a leg, it's all thesame. And she's there to really help
you. Grab you by the hand andget you through in a positive way
and not letting you sit there.
That's right. She's very bigon, like, not actually just sitting
in it. We can take steps toclimb out of the hole that we're

(01:30):
in. But when you say she's anaffiliate, tell us more.
You guys can find a link toher business and what she does in
our little description or onour website. And when you click on
that, you fill out this form.And on the form, it gives an option
of, how did you find her? Whyare you booking with her? And you
just type in skirts up andshe's going to take care of you?

(01:54):
Amazingly, yes. With. With alittle discount. So be sure to book
through us.
That's right.
Melissa. It's fail time. Whatyou got?
Okay, so I guess my fail rightnow is just like, all of the stuff

(02:18):
that I'm going through. So youguys know that I'm filing for divorce.
So there was like, life isgoing really fast. I went and talked
to the lawyer. I paid the, youknow, retainer and all that stuff.
And then she's like, yeah,we'll probably serve him this week.

(02:40):
Well, he never got served. Inever heard anything. And I was just
kind of, like, going on withmy life. And suddenly I realized,
you know what? It's been aminute. I think it's been a couple
weeks. So I called them up,and I was like, hey, I think I came
in a couple weeks ago, justwanted to know where would the stat.
What the status Was. And she'slike, well, when did you come in?
And it turned out it has beenover a month. And I was just like,

(03:04):
I just didn't realize because,you know, when life is happening
so fast. So she's like, oh,no, it's been almost a month. Let
me get your attorney to callyou. So call you back. And so she
called me and she's like, I amso sorry. I've been in court. I just.
It did.
I dropped the ball a littlebit. And she's like, okay, so did

(03:24):
you get your things from thehouse? And I was like, no, because
I've been putting it off. It'sso stressful. It's so stressful going
to that house even when he'snot there. It's just depressing for
me. And so I have been puttingit off. And she's like. I said, no,
I haven't. And she's like, oh,no, I really thought you would have

(03:46):
done that by now. She's like,go get your stuff and then we'll
get back in touch and. Andwe'll do the. Do the serving or whatnot.
So.
So now you can get back intouch though, right?
Yep. This weekend I went andgot all my stuff. I had some friends
helping me and I did it. So Iguess it's a success. Not just you

(04:07):
can do hard things. Yeah,that. Thank you.
Yeah.
So I'm going to email the.Well, look over like, the paperwork
she sent me and just say yesor no.
This is.
This looks good. And then.Yeah, we're going to do it.
This whole process, I willsay, has gone so fast for you. Like,
it went from. I mean, I won'tsay zero because I feel like this

(04:30):
has been a slow burn, like,build up.
Yeah.
But I would say with thatbeing said, we probably, like, you
were starting at like a threeand it went from three to nine in
like a day. Like, yeah, you'restill living at home and things are
fine to. All of a sudden,like, just out of the blue, I can't
even live at home. I'm notsafe. So it's. Your last two months

(04:53):
have literally been on the goon fire nonstop.
Like, yeah, it's been wild.You're right. And we can talk about
it too. Right now I. I'mactually surprised I'm even like
saying, oh, yeah, I'm filingand Brett's going to get served.
Like, that's. That right thereis kind of hard to say out loud,
but it's happening. So I guessit's just nice to Be able to have

(05:19):
the support that I've had.Everybody has been so amazing and
so kind and patient with me,so. Yeah.
Well, I'm excited for everyoneto hear in a couple of weeks when
you talk about, you know,deeper into your past and stuff and
how it affected you and the.How things like this affected you
in the past versus how they'reaffecting you now, because it. It's

(05:41):
a huge difference, and it'sliterally a show of how much you've
grown to be able to accept andhandle things as they come and be
able to confidently say, thisis happening. But you know what?
It's for the best, like. Causeit is for the best, like. And you
know that.
Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Thankyou. That's true. It is. So, yeah,
it went really fast from zero.Like you said.

(06:02):
It's.
It was a slow burn for a longtime. I think it's one of those things
when a woman decides she'sdecided, and so it was like I was
thinking about it for a longtime. I just. I'm not happy. Um,
and then once I decided, I. Ihad to. I had to make moves, so.
Yeah. Well, I'm proud of you.Thank you. Necessary. And we were.

(06:25):
A lot of us were worried aboutyou for a hot minute, so I'm really
glad that you felt comfortableenough to just rip the band aid off.
Thank you. Thank you.
So here we are.
And I want to say, too, I feellike I can only do it because of
everybody around me, so thank you.
And where you've been andwhere you are now.

(06:46):
That's right. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you very much. Did you bow?
I did.
I was like.
Oh, my God, I can't. My fail,I feel like, is super depressing.
So I'm gonna keep it, like,really short and fast because we're
actually gonna brush on it inthe episode today.

(07:07):
We do.
So I.
It was.
Was it Melissa? Remind me. Itwas. So Ada died on a Sunday, and
then it was that followingWednesday. Right. That I accidentally.
I think. So, like, it was.
It was. It was.
It was within the next week.Yeah, for sure.
Okay.

(07:28):
So after a few days after Adadied, I. You guys know, I was having
a really, really hard time. Istill have a hard time when I. I
finally wrote for the firsttime in one of my pen pal letters
about what happened to heryesterday and, like, bawling like,
the rest of the day. So it'sstill really hard.
Yeah, it is hard.

(07:51):
Obviously, because I'm gonnastart crying again, but she's your
baby. Okay, so. Yeah, you guysknow that. I, I think you guys know
that I used to take Deltaeights to help me sleep. But then
when the seizure started, Istopped using it because they said,
hey, there's been some thingsnoticed that long term use of the

(08:12):
Deltas can lead to seizures,psychosis, just random psychological
things. And so we were like,okay, well let's not risk it, let's
stop using that. And they putme on like Trazodone. So that was
a supplement that helped mesleep. And then I no longer needed
the Delta 8s. But when Adadied, I was, I wasn't sleeping well

(08:35):
and I, I don't think I wastrying to. I don't think I was looking
to necessarily knock myselfout. I think I was looking for something
to kind of like numb the mindand maybe the emotions. And so I
was like, well, you know,getting high helps. And so I. Yeah,

(08:59):
there's upper time. I know, I.And that you needed it.
Like you felt like you needed it.
But yeah, it sounds bad, butit wasn't even like I, I took it
responsibly. I took it, it wasa night time, it was at bedtime.
And usually when I was takingit regularly, I would take a whole
gummy. And I was like, well, Ihaven't taken it in probably like

(09:20):
over, I mean, two years maybe.
And so I was like, oh, I'lltake a half.
And so I only had a half andit knocked me out. Like literally
I slipped, slept that nightthrough the whole entire next day
into the next morning. Andwhen I woke up, I was still high
and had to like work off thehigh throughout that day. And I was

(09:42):
like, man, that is not okay.That is not good. And so I know it
wasn't okay. I know it wasn'tgood. So I'm not doing it again.
But grief, you know, made it happen.
Grief will make you. Yeah.
Lack of judgment. So.
And what. No, I. Maybe youwere about to say what I was gonna

(10:04):
say. I was gonna say. And wefind out later because when we were
talking to her that it'sactually quite normal.
Yeah. And I was really gladthat she said that. And another thing
that Jobeth says, and I can'tremember if she says it in the episode
or if it was when we weredoing our pre episode plus planning
session. She basically saysthat. Oh, how exactly did she say

(10:31):
it? Because it was likereally? It really, really helped.
Basically she just normalizesand like acknowledges that I minimized
it being a dog. I mean, you'lllearn how Jo Beth, like, what happened
to her and how she built thisbusiness, and, you know, why she
is who she is. And I was like,oh, well, my dog just died. And,

(10:55):
you know, I'm sorry about yours.
And she goes, way worse.
Yes, yes. I literally didthat. And she's like, no, it's not
a comparison. She was like,it's. It's the same thing. Like,
that dog was with you allthrough your 20s into your 30s. So,
like, was literally growing upwith you into adulthood. And I was
like, yeah, you're right.

(11:16):
It's one of the lines thatyou're going to hear her say. But
it stuck with me since we'vetalked to her, and she said grief
is felt at 100%, and itdoesn't matter who, like, what it
was. You're still feeling itat 100%. And you can't compare it
to. It's 100% grief.
Yeah.
I thought that was reallyinteresting because it's easy to
try to say, well, it couldn'thave been as bad as so and so's.

(11:38):
Yeah. So. But don't be scaredto listen to this episode. We really
do tackle it tactfully, butwith, you know, our usual humor.
So it really is. It's a goodepisode. She's so funny. I love her.
And you guys will do.
Yeah, she's great. So, Jo Beth.

(12:05):
We are Skirts up womenempowering and supporting women.
We are helping each other, andthat's exactly what we are doing
today. This is a safe space totalk about hard stuff and. All right.
Introduce yourself and whatyou do and how you got into this.
Yeah. My name is Jo BethEvans. I am remarried, so I'm actually

(12:27):
getting ready to change myname. So I'll be Jo Beth Paulie.
But I do. Thank you. But I do.Yes. No, it's like. It's one of the
best things that. That's everhappened in my life. So I do exactly
what you guys are talkingabout is empowering other women.
But I take them. I usually getthem when they are in the deepest
pit of their grief. I alwayskind of use the imagery that, like,

(12:49):
you know, when you're in thedeep darkness of grief, like, you're
down in this hole, this darkhole, and, like, I'm the person that's
reaching down and pulling youup into the light. And I'm showing
you that there's. There's a.There's. There is light. There is
something good that can comefrom this. Like, you don't have to
do it alone. Definitely A hypegirl. I'm not the person who always

(13:10):
say, like, I'm not going tosit in your poopy diaper with you.
I'm going to. We're going toacknowledge your grief. Like, we
do that. It's not like theworst, like, ah, forget it, or anything
like that. But it's like youhave people in your life that know
how to do sad with you. Like,they're familiar with that. They
can do that. They can, youknow, be there with you. I'm there
to pull you up out of it. So Iplay a different role in your life,

(13:31):
but really giving you thetools and the support and everything
you need to, like, totallytransition. And, you know, we're
looking at identity shifts alot of times of, like, going from
this victim to, like, golly,I'm a victor, like, this terrible
thing happened. But, like, Ican take it and do something really
great with it and really,really have an impact on the world.
And I think that that is thebest thing we can do when we lose

(13:51):
somebody to honor their lifeis to go live a full life with purpose.
And I think a lot of timespeople think that staying in their
grief and not moving forward,moving forward, not moving on, not
forgetting, but movingforward. Like, there's like, that
they're somehow honoring theirloved one that way. And I disagree.
I think that our loved oneswould want us to go live a full,

(14:14):
wonderful life and honor themin that way. And so I give people
the tools and the love and thesupport and the community to be able
to do that. And I'm very much,like I said, a hype girl. Pull you
up. Like, I'm gonna be therewith you. Like, no, not today. Because
there's a lot of times thatyou don't want to get up out of bed.
You don't want to live. AndI'm there to tell you that you got
a reason to, right?

(14:35):
Yeah. We're getting out. Andyou're not wrong, though, because
I know that I have notexperienced grief, like a death that's
really close to me until mydog died. And I remember, like, you
know, people around me wouldhave a death. And I literally don't
know how to be there for youbecause I don't know what it feels

(14:55):
like. And I don't know. So Ican your sadness, but I don't know
what to do about it. And so Ifeel like. I feel like what's beautiful
is that you are that personwho's there and able to, you know,
how to help people through It.
Yeah. And I think you're,like, in a. A large pool of people
that, like, you're like, Ilove you, but I don't really know

(15:15):
what to do for you. And, yeah,nobody does. And as. As somebody
who's went through somethingterrible, like, people say the wrong
thing, and there's not a lotof things that are the right thing
to say, because everybodywants to say something that makes
you feel better. Right. You'relike, what can I say to this person
to make them feel better? Putsa lot of power that you think you
have on you. You don't havethe power to change this. Like, you

(15:37):
don't have the power to makethem feel better. I always joke that
the best thing you can say tosomebody is, I'm thinking of you,
or, I'm praying for you, and,can I bring you dinner on Thursday?
Like, you want to dosomething? I love that you said that.
Yeah. Like, do somethingthat's going to be helpful.
And it's not, like, what can Ido for you?
It's.
I'm doing. This is what I'mdoing on this day.
Yeah.
And all you have to do is sitback and accept it.

(15:58):
Yeah. And that's. That's aproblem, too. When people are like,
what can I do for you? You'relike, dang. Well, I got. I got a
lot of laundry that needsdone. I need help taking the kids
places. Like, I. I don't wantto cook. I don't have time to cook.
And, like, just saying, like,this is what. No, no questions. Like,
what day is best? Like, thatmight be the question, you know?
But, yeah, nobody knows whatto do. But everybody thinks that

(16:19):
maybe they can say somethingthat's going to make the person feel
better and that just. Youdon't have that power.
So you built a business whereyou are helping people. What is the
business called?
Okay, so it's NWA GriefSpecialist, because I'm located in
northwest Arkansas, but wedefinitely work with people, like,
worldwide. People all over theworld are going to be at my. My webinar,

(16:43):
you know, listening. And griefis the same no matter where you live,
and grief is very different.But so it basically. Yeah, it just.
I was like, you know, we needmore people that are doing grief
work. And, like, for me, I waslooking for people who, like, all
of us. Like, does she looklike me? Does she. Does she have
my energy? Does. Because,like, you don't. You want to find

(17:05):
somebody you have commonground with, you know, and to connect
with. And so I was like.
Because you're sharing a big,big, hard part of yourself with this
person.
Oh, yeah, because in the workI do. So, like, the difference between
what I do in therapy. So intherapy, like, therapy is all about
you. So you don't knowanything about your therapist. A
lot of times, like, you knownothing about their struggles. They're
not supposed to talk to youabout their struggle. In the work

(17:27):
that I do, I always sharefirst. So I'll be like, okay, this
is, like, the steps that we gothrough. So, like, one of them is
a loss history graph where wego through and we graph every loss
to try to understand, like,how you've dealt with grief in the
past. I share mine first. Andso that way it's like, okay, like,
she was vulnerable with me. Isee how she dealt with it. Gives
them a lot of. Gives them anexample of how to share and then

(17:49):
also builds trust with them.It's like, okay, she was willing
to share this with me. Now Ican share it with her. And it kind
of lets them off the hook alittle bit to be like, okay, I can
do this report right.
Rapport.
Yeah, Rapport.
Yeah. It's building rapport.You're right. I was gonna ask you
what. If you don't mindsharing with us now, since you did
bring it up, what did happenthat kind of, like, spearheaded this?

(18:10):
Yeah.
So understand this. Wanting toknow more and understand grief and.
Right. So, I mean, back beforethis major event happened, I went
through infertility, and Ididn't really know how to deal with
that. So there was, like, thatfirst, like, little wasn't little.
It was major. But nothing incomparison to my. The one I'm going
to tell you about. But in2022, we had, like, completed our

(18:33):
family. Like, the best word todescribe is just complete. Everything
felt complete. We just boughta farm. We were building our dream
house, or we just finished it.And, like, everything was, like.
It was one of those times. Iwas just like, is this, like. It
almost felt, like, too good tobe true. It was, like, kind of like
waiting for. For the ball todrop. Like, everything looks so good.
Like, the kids were doingpretty well, and, like, we were homeschooling,

(18:53):
and my husband's career wasgoing amazing. I was working for
the University of Arkansas,teaching public speaking when the
kids were doing their work.And, like, everything seemed, like,
so good. And then my husband'spersonality started to change a little
bit, and I'm like, kelly, he'skind of a jerk. Like, he's, like,
being hateful, and he'spicking Fights. And I'm like, this
is not. Like, this is not myhusband. And I had this feeling of,

(19:15):
like, I can't stay in amarriage like this. Like, this is
terrible. But, like, he was sohateful. I didn't want to leave the
kids with him either. Like,and divorce him. And I had committed
to him. And so I was like, Idon't know what to do with this.
I'm worried. I know where thisis going.
Yeah. So two weeks after I hadthis moment of, like, I don't know
if I can do this. He startedgetting really bad headaches. And

(19:36):
we went to the doctor. Theyimmediately sent us back for a ct,
did a CT of his brain cameout. He has a huge mass on the front
right part of his brain,which, if you know, is where you.
Where your personality is at.And so I'm like, oh, gosh. So they
sent us over across the roadto the emergency room for an mri.
And within an hour, we had ourMRI Doctor came in, diagnosed him

(19:58):
with terminal brain cancercalled glioblastoma and gave us a
pamphlet that said, you know,his prognosis was 12 to 16 months
and that there was noeffective treatment for it. And they
gave us a pamphlet, scheduledthe time, told us to call Monday
to get an appointment with asurgeon. And, you know, that we could

(20:21):
do surgery, we could doradiation, but nothing was going
to work. Like, he was going todie. Sent us home, and we picked
the kids up on the way backhome because we didn't know how much
time we were going to haveleft with him as a family. So we
brought him home that night.From there, we decided. I was like.
I was like, I. And youprobably already picked this up from

(20:41):
me, but I was like, no, no,not denial. But he will be the one
that beats this, because I'mgonna pray. I'm gonna fast. I'm gonna
find the right doctors. I'mgonna have him on every supplement.
We're gonna be juicing. We'regonna be doing mindset work. Like,
we're gonna do everything. Andhe is going to be like. He's gonna

(21:04):
be like this person. Personthat, like, everybody's turning to,
like, this guy. Like, he. He'sthe one who beat it. Now we can all
do what he's doing, right?
And an inspirational miraclefor everyone.
Yeah. And just like they hadtold us, nothing worked. And so he
slowly deteriorated over thecourse of 12 months. He lived 12

(21:27):
months past his diagnosis, andI. He was in hospice for a month,
and I was just sitting therewith him, like, he was totally out
of it. They had him medicatedto where he couldn't feel anything,
which is wonderful. Like, Ilove, love, love hospice and what
they do for us and our lovedones. About a month of sitting there

(21:47):
being like, okay, like, themoment he passes, like, it's game
on. Like, it's. It's you. You.You have a farm, you have a company,
you have two kids, you havethis house. Like, it's you and your
job. It's like, it's youthat's gonna do all this. Yes, I
had support and help, butultimately it was me. And I was like,

(22:09):
people die every day. Like,there has to be a blueprint. There
has to be something. And Ikind of saw some coaches and stuff.
It's just not feeling theirvibe. And I was like, if I can figure
this out, if I can figure outhow to do this, how to serve, not
just to survive, becausethat's boring, but to actually, like,
take it, survive it, and turnmy life into it. Yeah. Just thriving

(22:31):
in this really terriblesituation. Like, I'm going to take
as many women as I can throughthis. Like, I'm going to be like,
come on, girl. Like, we'regoing, like, you know, and that's
what I did. I was verydedicated to the whole process.
It brings up a question forme, because earlier you were talking
about, hey, I'm the one who'sgoing to reach down. I'm going to
pull you out of this darkness.And I wanted to know, like, what.

(22:54):
Does that look like?
Because you said also, whenyou're the one who's going through
this, you are the one that hasto take the steps. And, like, it's
on you to, like, get out. Butit does help to have somebody, like,
at least a hand to reachtowards. Right. Like, I know. Tell
us kind of what that lookslike. How do you have somebody take

(23:16):
responsibility for theiractions but still know that you're
there to help them?
Yeah. So there has to be anidentity shift. People get stuck
in the victim mentality. And Ilike to say that, like, victimhood
is not a virtue. Like, thereis nothing good about being stuck
in the victim mentality. Wedon't want you there. So something

(23:36):
I really try to do is get themout of that. So that's like, things
like, that's why I have mywebinar. That's why I have a Facebook
page and social media is totry to help people to be like, oh,
like, I. I don't want to behere anymore. I want to be there
I want to be in this place of,like, where good things are happening
and I'm making progress. Butif somebody's stuck in the victim

(23:57):
mentality, and I see peoplelike this all the time because they'll
say things like, I will alwaysbe broken. Comparing grief. You don't
know what I've been through.Like we talked about earlier, like,
these people that, that, like,they think that their situation is
so much worse than everybodyelse's, that nobody else can understand,
nobody else can help them. Andthat basically. Or, you know, I had

(24:21):
another person say that, like,grief and recovering was easy for
me. That's why I'm in theposition I am. And the reason they're
in the position they arebecause it was easy for me and it
was not easy for them. When wehave. When you're stuck in that mindset,
there's nothing anybody can dofor you, like, because you're. You're

(24:41):
unwilling to be open to thepossibility of being okay again.
Like, I'm not saying thrivingagain. I'm just saying they're not
even open to being okay. Andso we have to, like, shift that mindset.
And maybe they see a post orthey see, you know, the webinar,
they're like, okay, like,maybe it's possible. You know, maybe
they start to entertain theidea that it's a possibility. And

(25:02):
so that's kind of where I tryto get people is like, showing them
what's possible. Like, okay,you don't want to get out of bed
in the morning. Okay, youdon't have a desire to live anymore.
That's normal. Like, I'msorry, but that's normal. To lose
your desire to live afteryou've had a major loss.
It would be very strange ifyou weren't experiencing some depths

(25:27):
of despair, you know?
Yeah. Yeah.
Jo Beth and I were talking inour pre planning session about, you
know, I've never experienceddeath before, but my dog dying is
my first death and how hardthat's been to where I did. I just
told you guys, accidentallyover medicate myself. And Jobeth

(25:48):
was really nice and like, no,that. That happens.
Yeah. No, I mean, you know,most of us are experiencing grief
for the first time, so we'rejust doing what we think is best
doing. Doing. Doing the bestwe can. And until somebody comes
and shows us a different way,then that's just kind of where we
are. And there has to be a lotof grace and grieving. Like, there

(26:08):
were things that I did that Iwas like, I probably could have done
that a little Better. But atthe same time, it's like, also realizing
that, like, okay, this was myfirst time with this, so maybe, maybe
I was okay. And I told. I toldyou I was like, well, you woke up,
so you got the opportunity todo it differently, and you did, you
know, and that's so amazing.And that's what. That's what we want,
is to be like, okay, that was.That maybe was not the best decision.

(26:30):
Let me do better this time.Let me do better today. Right.
And not be hard on yourself,because I feel like probably you
did what you could at the time.
Yeah, for sure. Like, that'swhat I used to say. Yeah, I used
to say that, like, there's nowrong way to grieve. We're all just
doing the best we can. Butthat was before I started working
with people who are grievingand doing it the wrong way. And this
is. This is interesting. Thisis upsetting for people, too. So

(26:53):
trigger warning. There is awrong way to grieve, and it's a wrong
way to grieve if you arehurting yourself or others. And when
I talk about hurting yourself,it could be using your medications
incorrectly. I see thathappening a lot. Using any kind of
drugs or alcohol or turning tosome kind of addiction because of

(27:15):
your grief like that. Like,there. I don't think there's anybody
across the board that's goingto say, like, yes, if you lose somebody
and you need to use cocaine tofeel better, it's okay. Like, it's
just not. And like, somepeople go slower, some people go
faster. Yeah, that's part of,like, it being, like, okay, using

(27:36):
it to doing something that'sharming yourself is never in my book.
It's not okay. And it's notokay if you have, you know, you're
hurting other people in yourlife. Your children, pops, a partner.
Like, if it's causing damage,it's not the right. It's not the
right way.
You're talking about mentallyhurting. Not like, I mean, I'm sure,
maybe physically, but, like,mentally, Yeah.
I mean, like, if you have kidsand you're locking yourself in your

(28:01):
bedroom every night andthey're having to fend for themselves,
or you're married, maybeyou've lost a child and you shut
your husband out and don'tengage or have any relationship with
him anymore, like, like I saidin my book, that's not okay. Like,
that's not what we want. Andso when we're hurting, that's the
time we bring our loved onescloser and not push them away. And,

(28:22):
you know, some people chooseto grieve in ways that push people
away. And that's, you know,and that's totally different than
being like, okay, mommy needsto shower alone tonight. You know,
like, so I need a second. Thisis different.
Yeah.
So, like, a lot of people,when they're in that, like, that
feeling, like they're in thatdark hole, like you called it, you

(28:44):
can't really sometimes tellthat you're even there. You do, you
know what I mean? Like, and itmight take somebody else to come
in and say, so do you have,like, suggestions for people, too?
Because I'm wondering, like,how do we get. People are like, how
do you get people to find youwhen they don't even know that they
need you? Does that makesense? Yeah.

(29:04):
I mean, I've had lots ofpeople who, like, will send family
members my website and belike, I'll pay for. Pay for you to
work with her. You know, I'll.I'll do my part.
That doesn't sound like it works.
I mean, because they don'twant it. Ah. And when they don't
want it, yeah, they have to beready. And like, like I said, like,

(29:24):
just giving little. Like,maybe they come across anything that's,
like, positive. And as agriever, like, I'm in all the grief
groups, I mostly am juststanding back watching what's happening.
But it's a lot of peopleposting stuff like, you're gone and
I will miss you every dayuntil I'm with you again. And it's
like, okay, gosh, I don't wantto make people mad, but it's like,

(29:49):
anytime you're feeding thatnegativity into you, like, I'm going
to feel this way the rest ofmy life. Like, that's not good. So
they're seeing more of thatthan they are positive stuff. And
I think that definitely is,like, playing into them being like,
oh, this is just life now.This is how it's going to be forever.
It's like what Terry Christinesaid. She said, I cannot want to
heal you more than you want toheal yourself. Otherwise, this will

(30:10):
not work. And she's had to letpeople go. So I feel like there has
to be steps. You said you feelthat you've created a blueprint.
What are these steps thatsomeone takes to move towards recovery?
Recovery?
Is that the word? Yeah, Iwould use recovery or healing. And
that's another controversialthing. Some people say you can't

(30:30):
heal. And I'm like, well, Idon't agree with that. It's just
not a. It's not a concept Ibuy into. But yeah, so, yeah, it's
not necessarily like steps.It's more like a group of things
that come together so you haveto be educated. And so one of the
things that, you know, wewanted to talk about were the stages
of grief. Right. And what,what those are? Well, the stages

(30:51):
of grief. And you can find afree ebook on my website that talks
about it. But the stages ofgrief were written for somebody who
is dying. Okay. They're notwritten for somebody who's living
and living with that kind ofgrief. And so I think that's what
we need to keep in mind. Butthose stages are denial, anger, bargaining,
depression, acceptance. Okay,wait, do you mean that they're.

(31:14):
Written for somebody who foundout they're going to die?
Oh, that's why the lady.That's why the lady wrote those.
But we've all taken them on aslike, this is it. These are the stages
that I'm gonna go through.Yeah. And it's not so, like, I never
went through denial. I neverwent through anger, I never went
through bargaining. But I didhave depression and acceptance. So

(31:35):
like, so if I was a grieverand I was buying into the idea that
I had to go through, like, allthese steps. Oh, like, I would be
like, waiting, like, oh,when's the denial gonna hit? Like,
I'm just waiting for the next thing.
But I do want to also clarifywhat you and I jobeth talked about
when we were doing ourplanning session is that grieving
isn't just the death. It canbe, oh, I've lost a limb, I've lost

(31:59):
a partner, I've lost, like indivorce. It's not. Grieving is not
just death. So I actuallythink it's very appliable that you
mention that the steps ofgrieving were written for not the
living.
Right.
Because we are living throughall these different types of grief.

(32:21):
Yeah. Right. Yeah. So itlooks. It looks different like when
you're. You've lost a limb oryou've lost a marriage or. Yeah.
And I think I. Yeah, we kindof like take grief and we say, okay,
it's just for the dying. But.And you and I talked about in the
pre call that, like, in a lotof ways, divorce is worse. And. Because
that's what you were saying.Because, like, just from what I've

(32:43):
experienced, because I have myexperience and I've watched people
who are divorced, but I willnever see my husband with another
woman. He will never havechildren with another woman. I'm
never. He's never going tohurt me beyond what's happened. Whereas
with divorce, you know, wesee, you know, you have to adjust
to them dating and then youhave to see them potentially have
kids with somebody else andbuild this life. Like, it's like

(33:04):
this keeps hurting. Right.There's these harsh words. Yeah,
the words, the. All thethings. And so, like, golly, yeah.
Divorces.
How come they can build thisanother life and be what this person
needs, but they couldn't forme. Or maybe that's just one.
No, it's hurt.
Yeah. It's a continuous. It's.It's. It's continuous. Where was

(33:24):
my. Mine was like, had afinite end. Like, it was just like,
here it is. It's over. Like,there. There will be nothing else
exist with this relationship.No more hurt to move forward. Yeah.
And so divorce is reallytough. But so if you're listening
and you're like, you know, I'mgrieving the loss of my marriage.
I'm grieving the loss of my.
I didn't tell you, but that'swhat we have right here. My grieving
is my dog. Her grieving is a divorce.

(33:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I mean,it's. And, you know, it's very real.
And you may have. You'veprobably experienced the. Some of
the stages.
Yeah, I kind of want to throwout one more thing, too. Like, part
of me feels like I shouldn'tbe grieving because I'm the one that
initiated it, but there'sstill a bunch of, like, there's still

(34:09):
grief. And I feel like if Ifeel that way, then other people
have got to be feeling thatway. And I don't think it's the right.
You were feeling bad aboutthat. You're like, I feel guilty.
Like, I shouldn't be sad. I'mthe one who initiated. But then in
the same sentence, he told me,but he was my best friend and he
changed.
And.
Yeah.
Yeah, I have to change.
Okay, so can I coach you onthat, please? So the first thing

(34:32):
is, is that it. It was a lossperiod. So, like, you need to validate
that immediately. And I wouldtry to stop thinking about, well,
I shouldn't. Thinking Ishouldn't isn't going to get you
anywhere but addressing whyyou should. You know, like, he. He
was your best friend. You hadyears. There were years that were
good. Like, you chose to marryhim. Like, you enjoyed being married

(34:54):
to him for a while. And sothose are things, like, if you were
a client of mine, like, wewould go through and we would celebrate
that. And not, like, we're notcake and candles. Okay. But, like,
we're, like, we're talkingabout, like, giving voice to it and
saying, you know, like,whatever his name is.
Remember that good time.
Yeah. Like, thank you. Like,verbally saying thank you for all

(35:14):
those good years. Like, it wasso wonderful. And then we can also
go back and say, like, youknow, like, I. One of the big things
that we talk about is, like,giving. Giving words to stuff. So,
like, if there was somethinglike that you couldn't forgive him
for, we want to validate that.So it's like, let's say this is not
your situation. So to clear upanybody who's listening. But if,

(35:35):
like, there was a situationwhere somebody molested you, you
would probably wouldn't be ata place where you could forgive them.
Okay. But what we want to dois give voice to that. So we would
say something like, let's sayit's John. I'm so sorry if there's
a John listening. When youmolested me, it made me feel very
scared, and you took my senseof trust and safety from me. And

(36:00):
I'm not going to carry theweight of that anymore or I'm not
going to let that hurt meanymore. I'm not going to carry the
burden of that anymore.Something along those lines. Because,
like, we can't just let ithang out, you know, like, it needs
to be addressed and it needsto be given words. And, yeah, you
initiated this situation, butyou need to grieve it so you can

(36:22):
move forward. Because if youjust, like, dismiss it, it's going
to keep coming back. So takecare of it so you can get rid of
it and live your life fully.But, yeah, that's. Divorce is.
Yeah, I don't. I don't want tospeak for you, but I feel like from
what you're saying, in hersituation, Melissa would sit with
herself and be like, you know,I'm so thankful for this and this

(36:45):
and this and our timetogether. But when you said this,
when you changed in this way,you hurt me, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And that's what you are dropping.
Yeah. Speak those feelings. Sothose feelings are really important,
too. Like, you need to see howyou feel about, do I feel betrayed
or do I feel disrespected? DoI feel let down? Do I feel.

(37:12):
Neglected?
Yeah, yeah. I mean, whateverthe word is, neglected, hurt, you
know, and you want to get tothe. The core of those feelings.
Anger is not one. You need toget deeper than anger because you're
Obviously. Probably angry.Like, but what's.
I'm glad you just said thatbecause, like, I want to say I've
seen charts before from pasttherapists where, like, there's the
emotion. Feelings, yes. And itgets deeper and deeper. I have one,

(37:34):
but I can't reach it, honestly.
Right there.
If you wanted to, like, shareit with us later or something, because
I.
Have one in my binder.
I think it's so helpfulbecause sometimes we're not 100%
in tune with what we'refeeling, or we just think we just
slap on an emotion even though.
It'S a little deeper. Yeah.Angry or sad. Those are easy. I'm

(37:55):
angry or I'm sad. Well,there's more to it than that.
Yeah. I feel like I took uskind of off track. You were going
to tell us the blueprintsbefore I kind of.
Oh, yeah, yeah, sorry. Idefinitely was part of that. Going
off the track.
No, I'm gonna.
This is what.
This is what we do.

(38:15):
Yeah.
It's totally normal. And thenwe go, wait a second. We were about
to learn something. Let's go back.
The reason I brought up thestages of grieving was because, like,
when you talk about ablueprint, like, it almost seems
like, dit, dit, dit, dit. Butactually, like, there is no pattern.
There is no, like, oh, thistime's gonna be harder now than it
is next year. That wassomething. That's a myth, too. Is
it, like, time is going tomake a difference and time doesn't

(38:38):
make a difference? The onlytime time makes a difference is when
you're actively workingtowards your recovery. And then it.
It does because you have,like, you've got some traction and
action pushing you. So theblueprint, what really you need as
a griever is education.Because if you don't, like, if, like,
if you're believing in thesesteps and you're like, oh, I'm waiting
for the ball to drop. Like,haven't felt angry yet. Like, when's
it coming? You're. You're onthe wrong path. You need to just

(39:02):
let things come as they are.But you need education. You need
to know, like, what you'redealing with. So understanding your
own experience with grief,what did it look like for you to
grieve? What did it look likefor your parents to grieve? Because
probably the way you'regrieving is similar to the way they
grieved, very possibly becauseyou saw that model. So when your

(39:22):
dog got ran over, how did yourmom act when grandma died? So Like,
I'm gonna model that a littlebit, probably as a child. And then
you just. Next thing you know,you're an adult and you're dealing
with some big stuff, and youmo. You're doing what you did as
a child. So, like, how did youhandle it when your dog died? Oh,
so you chose to get on your.Your PlayStation and zone out. Oh,

(39:46):
you just got divorced, so youjust watch TV all the time. Like,
you know, like, you're. You'reusing the same coping mechanism.
So we look at that. That'spart of education. So the education
is like, let's look at the.You know, what am I doing? Yourself?
Like, how are. How have. Whatwe're educating you on you. Like,
what have you been doing? Thenwe look at, like, what are you using

(40:08):
to cope? Like, are you using.Are you listening to good podcasts?
Are you journaling? Are yougoing for a walk? Or are you watching
TV and binge eating?
Tearing down Jo Beth on social media?
Are you attacking me on socialmedia? Like, what are you doing?
Okay, sorry, Low blow.

(40:28):
No, that was. No, I mean, butseriously, like, these people are.
You know, there's. There's.There's something happening there
for them and that. Like,they're just exploiting themselves.
But anyways, I'm glad you said that.
Because we were talking aboutthat how hurt people. Hurt people.
Yeah. That's why we have totake this seriously. We can't just
be, like, haphazardly, like,rolling through our grief. And that's

(40:49):
what we. That's what we lookat. That's why we're looking at this.
Like, how did you behave? Thenwe also look at, like, all the losses
you've experienced, becausesome people are like, yeah, like,
nobody's ever died before, soI haven't really experienced grief.
It's like, oh, but you weresexually abused as a child. You've
experienced grief. Yeah. Or,yeah, you know, your house burned

(41:10):
down. Like, somebody stolesomething that was really important
to you. You know, like,there's so many things.
It'S easy to minimize.
Oh, and that's a thing. That'sdefinitely a thing. People are like,
oh, well. So just like, thelady I was talking about was like,
you don't know what grief isbecause you haven't lost a child.
We do that in the reverse. Ihave people come to me and be like,

(41:31):
my mom died, but I can't talkto you about it because, like, your
husband died. And that's somuch worse than my mom dying. And
I'm like, stop. Like, we'recomparing grief and what other people.
I did that to you.
You did. And I told you to stop.
I said, oh, shit. Your husbanddied, My dog died.
Right. And like. Like, itfeels differently, right? Like, if

(41:51):
you're. If your partner orbest friend died, it would feel very
different than your dog dying.But grief has always experienced
it 100%. It doesn't matter whoor what it is. Like, you're experiencing
it fully. So it. To compare.
That's a good thing to remember.
Yeah. So don't. Don't compare.But the. We have this huge education
component that I walk peoplethrough, but also, like, I am that

(42:13):
person that's pulling you upout of the dark. So I do something
called Marco Polo with. It'san app, a video app where it's like,
we just video send it videosend it back, like, as. As we can.
It's not immediate, but, youknow, as soon as we can, we get back
to each other. But you needthat because it's like, hey, I'm
feeling like I want to give uptoday. And I'm like, you're not giving
up today. In fact, you'regetting up right now, and you're

(42:35):
gonna take action. You'regonna go do something. You're gonna
go for a walk, you're gonnacall a friend, you're gonna go out
and eat something. Like, youknow, encouraging that action and
just repetitively pulling themup. But. But grievers need that.
They have people in their lifethat know how to do sad. They don't
have people in their lifethat's like, I don't care if you're
mad at me. Like, I don't careif this hurts your feelings. Like,

(42:55):
I'm here to tell you that youare going to get up and shower today
because you're a warrior now.Like, you've made a decision to not
be a victim anymore. Andthat's what I'm helping you do. Also.
I do first three steps. Likethe days that I can't get out of
bed. Simon. And we've reversedit sometimes. Sometimes he can't
get out of bed, and we justask each other.
You do three steps.
I did do it to you. So goodfriends, you don't want to get out

(43:18):
of bed. Okay, well, first stepis getting out of bed. Then put on
clothes, then brush your teeth.
And they don't have to be big steps.
No, it doesn't. It doesn'thave to be big steps. It just has
to be the steps that get you out.
Right. Like, I'm not Askingyou to get up and start a non profit
in memory. If you're apartner, I'm just saying you got
to get up, right? And beingthat person. But you need that. But

(43:42):
what you also need and whatyou guys have with each other and
your partner is that likesomebody that's there to like, love
you and listen to you throughthat. And I found that organically.
It just so happened that afriend of mine's sister's husband
died of glioblastoma too. Andshe was like, can you talk? Like,
I think you guys shouldconnect or whatever. And she's like

(44:03):
one of my best friends. Like,I talk to her all the time and we
say things to each other thatwe can't say to anybody else. And
this would be the same for aparent who's lost a child. Like,
there's hurts and pains thatyou say to somebody else and they're
gonna be like, oh, my gosh, Ihave no idea what to do with that
information. Like, you willscare them to death. And I guess
that's why group therapy.
Is sometimes a thing. Like fora lost child, for just. Yeah, all

(44:27):
those different types of.
That makes sense, actually.
Yeah. Because you want. Youwant that connection with somebody.
And so that's something elsethat as my programs grow and that
we find new people is to belike, hey, you know, like, this person
also lost their husband tosuicide. I think you guys should
talk because then they can belike, oh my gosh, when I found him,
X, Y and Z. And that person'sbeen through it. So they're like,

(44:48):
girl, I know. Like, I understand.
Like, you're not going to dropthat huge, like, bomb on just somebody.
Oh, interesting, right?
Like, they can say it's me,but they need a friend. Yeah. It's
like a almost like dating appfor grievers.
That's really cool.
It is. Because you need that.Like, there was a moment.
It's like a mentor.
Yeah. Just somebody to walk.Walk with you through it. Because

(45:11):
there was a time when I waslike, I had this really weird memory
that was not weird. It wasjust really dark coming up. And I'll
share it with you guys becausethat's what we're doing. But I called
my friend and I was like, man,I was like, I can't stop thinking
about how hard it was todecide that that was the last time
to see my husband, like, afterhe had passed. Like, I knew as soon

(45:31):
as I said, like, I'm like,okay, I'm ready to go home, that
that was gonna Be it like,there would be no more seeing. I
would never see him again. Andso, like, I kept touching him and
his body as his body got coldand like, just like, I didn't want
to let him go. And like, I hadto. I could talk to her about that

(45:53):
because she was like, yeah, Iknow. Like, I know what that felt
like. Like you being the onethat's making the decision to walk
away knowing it's the lasttime. And so we need people like
that. And they're not alwaysour friends. In fact, they're probably
very seldom our friendsbecause how common is it that you
have a friend that'sexperienced the same thing as you?
Not very common. So, yeah, Ilike to connect people so that they

(46:16):
can have a friend and be like,hey, like, today's hard. Remember
anniversaries and birthdayswith, you know, and reach out. But
that's an important componenttoo, is having that community. And
I love that in my group, I getto do whatever I want because it's
my group. And like, so if Iwant to, like, you know, like, over
provide and over serve andover love, like, I can do that because

(46:39):
I'm calling the shots and I'mgonna. I give them whatever they
need to be able to be like, I.I have everything I need to be successful,
you know, and I get to provide that.
So that kind of being said, doyou tend to keep. Okay, so like in
therapy, they, you know, youkind of hear the joke that, like,
oh, I want my clients tograduate from thera. I don't want

(47:02):
to see them again. It meansthey're doing better. But I almost
wonder if, like, in yourfield, maybe you want them to stick
around because they are goingto be able to be that guiding hand
to help the next person.
Yeah. So I feel like. So mygroup is six months and so there's
like eight. The first twomonths is like major hand holding.
Major. Because we want to. Wow.
So it's an actual, like, it'slike a. Almost like a course in a

(47:26):
way.
Yeah, it's like a course. Sothe grief group is kind of like a
course. It's so it's verystructured. Very.
And are these the blueprintsthat we're trying to get through?
Yeah. So yeah. So theblueprint is like.
You are so cute. Just curious,is this course like the blueprint?
This is the happiest podcastI've ever been on. So yeah. So the

(47:47):
blueprint consists of thegrief recovery method that I walk
them through, the one on onesupport, the big Group support and
then the one on one friendshipthat I fine for them. And even if
like there's not like somebodyin that group that connects because
there probably won't be. Iknow lots of people. So it's like
if you lost a child tosuicide, like I know three people.
If you lost husband suicide, Igot three people. Like if you, you

(48:09):
know, I can connect. You losta spouse. I got lots of those people
because that's a lot of what Iattract. But yeah, so those are like
the four different parts. Butyeah. So to, to answer your question,
the goal is, is that they're.They feel good enough to leave in
six months. If they want tostay, that's great. Like if they
feel like they want that. Cuzthe grief doesn't have a timeline.
But the, if I have two peoplewho have gone through the program,

(48:33):
they should be able to show upand love and support and encourage
each other so that, that pointthey can like stop paying for help
and have a friendship wherethey're connected there. So that's,
that's what it is. Because inthe, in the group, the Facebook group
that they're all the biggroup. That's an additional part
of the blueprint. They. I haveguest speakers that come in that
talk about finances or youknow, different parts of healing.

(48:56):
Like definitely going to throwin some RT therapy that we talked
about. Like some things thatare like really important but not
necessarily things I'm anexpert in. So bringing more people
in that are like I don't. Youdon't want me to talk to you about
finances? Somebody should shutoff my Amazon account. So we're bringing
in this guy, you know, to talkto talk to all of us because I shouldn't

(49:17):
talk to you about it. So yeah,there's a big part. But, but the
goal is. Yeah. That you getwhat you need and then you have these
connections that are going tobe with you a lifetime because you're
always going to have thisloss, always going to have this grief
to an extent. So you wantsomebody to just walk through the
rest of your life with you.
Wow, that's amazing.
Yeah. Now ask me what happenedwhen she asked me if I've ever heard

(49:40):
of Marco Polo.
She asked if it was the game.
Oh no. That's so cute.
She looks so Asian. Oh no, no.You don't know.
It's so fun. It's good forfriends. It can't be physically with
each other like because it'sfor the people that I don't ever
get to see. We talk Every dayon there, it's like a voice.
It's like a. It's like. It'slike instead of just making a voice

(50:03):
memo, you get the video too.You get to see and kind of be with
your person in a way.
It's more intimate, for sure.More. More connected than a text
or. Text is cold. You get the.Yeah, it's great. And that's how
I prefer to speak with my. Myclients, because I need to pick up
on energy and, you know, dothey look like they brushed their
hair today? Are they still inbed? You know, like, stuff like that

(50:25):
you can't pull.
Yeah, no, no. Tricking you.
Yeah.
Have you had to fire a client?Like, you're trying to bring them
to the healing journey, andyou're trying. You're trying, but
you know that you want it morethan they do at this moment. And
you're like, we gotta cut tiesfor a little bit.
Yeah. They stop coming. They.They quit.
They know.
Yeah. They know that theycan't do it anymore because, like,

(50:49):
with the. The beginning partof the program, you have to do homework.
Like, so you. We don't do yourloss history graph together. Like,
you do that on your own, andthen you come back and we share it.
Okay, let me just say thatsounds terrifying to me.
Like, right, That's.
If I'm already, like, emptyand you're asking me to do something,
like, how. How does that work?I'm already empty.

(51:12):
Right. Well, that's why Ioffer, like, basically unlimited
support. It's because when yougo off to yourself and you're like,
oh, my gosh, like, had womencome sit with me out by the pool
and do it, because they'relike, okay, like, I made. I've got
one down. Like, okay, like,let's do the next. And you know,
like, they need that support.And that was one thing. When I started

(51:32):
originally doing this, I wasjust doing the grief groups once
a week. Like, you could textme, but, you know, it wasn't really
encouraged. And I'm like,gosh, they need so much more. You
need that hand holding andsomebody to be like, okay, like,
and for you, if you were like,if you were telling me, you know,
that sounds like too much forme, then I'd be like, okay, we're
gonna set aside 30 minutesbecause that's all it should take.

(51:55):
And we're gonna. I'm gonnastay on the phone with you, sound
video with you. You're gonnado it, and then we're both gonna
agree when you're done thatyou're gonna get up and go do something.
You're gonna go for a walk.You're gonna go take a shower. You're
gonna go get a massage. Youmay go out and dinner with a friend.
Like, you're closing the door.You don't need to carry it the rest
of the day until we meetagain. And so really just being that
voice for you, that's like,it's over. Like, you did your work.

(52:18):
You did what?
You swallowed your frog.
Yeah, you swallowed frog.Like, move on with your day. Like,
you did what you were supposedto do. And so that felt helps us.
Instead of just like,lingering and mulling over something
all day, all week, all month,for a year, we're like, I did my
work. I did what? It's likethis huge.
Like, I love that you're like,you can't just go and talk about

(52:40):
it with me. We're not justgoing to sit there and talk about
it.
You know what's reallydifferent though, too, is that when
we go to our therapist,because we're going through shit
or whatever and we're tryingto figure stuff out, we're paying
by the hour. She's offering.And correct me if I'm wrong, of course,
that's unlimited help andassistance for six months. So it's

(53:03):
not like, if you do needassistance and, like, let's do a
video sitting at the pool andhelp me, like, sit here and walk
through it. Like, you don'thave that extra stress of, okay,
well, this is another hourthat, you know, I could have done
it by myself, but now I haveto pay for an extra hour because
I needed extra help. And it'slike, it's just all lumped in, and
that's like. That's wild.

(53:24):
Yeah.
Yeah. Because. Because I wasthinking, like, you know, there's
no such. I've said thisbefore, probably because it's something
that's on my mind a lot, butthere's no such thing as just sitting
in a stagnant, like a stasis.There's just. It doesn't happen.
You're either progressingforward or you're falling behind.
And so the more you're justsitting there, not doing the things

(53:45):
and taking steps, the worseit's going to get. So I love that
you're like, no, you need toget out. We're going to do steps.
It's not just, let's talkabout it.
Yeah. And I also think there'ssome incentives. So you got six months,
right, where therapy isindefinite. You go therapy the rest
of your life. So I'm saying,hey, you know, you're investing.
So for my course, you'reinvesting this amount of money and

(54:08):
you could totally, like, useup all my time. You could take such
advantage of this opportunityand be like in a completely different
space in six months. Or youcould pay me the same amount of money
and halfway do it and stillhave issues in six months. Like,
what are you choosing to do?Like, I say, like, let's get like,
let's hit the ground running.Like, let's just like kick some doors

(54:30):
down and see what's possiblefor you. And so it's not like they're
still going at their pace, butthere's going to be, there's some
incentive to like, get inthere and get it, get it done and
see what's possible as opposedto, like, and I'll just talk about
it next week, you know.
Yeah.
So what advice do you leave?Would you leave with our listeners?

(54:52):
Like, let's just say, hey, myhusband just died. Like, what, what,
what are you telling them?What do they need to hear right now?
If it just happened? Like,definitely making sure the basic
needs are taken care of. Areyou sleeping? Are you eating? Something
I want to address and that wehaven't talked about. I was, I took

(55:13):
antidepressants for I thinksix months after my husband died
and six months before. And Iwas having panic attacks and I felt
like taking them was a copout. And I was like, this is like,
he's having to suffer. Hecan't do anything about it, but I'm
gonna like, medicate myself.And I felt you had about it survivor's

(55:36):
guilt. Yeah. And so I waslike, you know, like, I should suffer
just as much as he is. Like,that's kind of my mindset. But like,
once I got on em, I realizedthat, like, I was able to function
through some of the days thatwere the hardest. And I took the
pills appropriately and Iweaned off appropriately. But like,
I was like, this is shortterm. This is just something that
I'm doing. So. And I see thata lot of women that they're just

(55:57):
so deep into it that like anantidepressant would be really helpful.
And like, I'm not a doctor,I'm not prescribing, I'm not doing
that. But I am saying that,like, if you're in that space where
like, you physically can't getout of bed or you're having panic
attacks that are just likeyour body's out of control, like
getting help with that is notsomething that you should just dismiss
and understand that it's atemporary thing and you're going

(56:18):
to start working. So if that'sthe case and you need that, but you
have to have basic needs takencare of. Are you eating? Are you
sleeping? And are you able tostay awake? And then from there,
like, I want you to know thatthere is something beautiful that's
going to come from this, andyou really get to be the one that
decides that. And so I wantyou to fully fill all your feelings,

(56:43):
but understand that whenyou're ready, there's a path forward,
and that you have so muchpurpose and so much value in your
life that you need to keepgetting up, you need to keep looking
for that purpose and thatlight in your life and get help.
I was in therapy six monthsbefore he passed away and six months
after. And I knew very quickit wasn't a journey. I was going

(57:04):
to walk alone. And if you'relistening to this, you have me for
sure. But you also have otheroptions, too. And like. But the.
The thing is, is you need tochoose. You need to take action.
One last thing that she mademe. You made me think of just now
when you were talking isearlier you had said something about.
This is why it's so importantthat we address this. Because what.

(57:28):
What we're feeling is justautomatically going to get pushed
back into the world and thenstart affecting other people. So,
like, when you're talkingabout starting something beautiful
coming from this, something wecan grow, that also is going to get
pushed back out into theworld. Positivity and just for the
people all around us. So Ijust kind of. It's just a little

(57:50):
thing that came to my mind andI was like, yeah, good.
Sorry. My daughter keepscalling me back to back. Okay. Yeah.
Hopefully everything is okay.That's code for emergency. Like,
if you're doing that to ask meif you can go eat with your friends
after school. School, like,there's a problem.
I said, are you okay? And shegoes, yeah, stop calling me then.

(58:11):
That's scary. God.
Oh, children.
Yeah, but. But back to yourpoint. Yeah, I mean, like, even if
your big impact on the worldis it, you're just an example of
what's possible to somebodyelse. That's enough.
That's beautiful.
Yeah. And with that beingsaid, Jo Beth is with us today to

(58:35):
explain. Explain what ispossible and to have this open conversation
and to make known that shedoes have a course that can help
you and will help you inwhatever pattern of grief or whatever
Type of grief that you're in.We did talk about that. You have
clients that are grieving. Youknow, again, we just keep saying

(58:57):
the same things, but lostlimbs, divorce, death, like, there's
all different types of grief.And that's what you're here for.
Yeah, for sure. Like, I justwant everybody to know, like, there's
an option. Like, it. I mean,you can come hang out with me or
not. I mean, I'm the betteroption. I love it.

(59:17):
I think we should end with that.
I love that. That sounds soconceited. But I'm confident.
That's the thing. Like, whyare we so scared of, like, being
confident?
We.
Yeah, no, we want everyone tofeel better about themselves. And
I love that you were, like,just an example of that just now.
You're right. It's the betteroption. Get out there.

(59:38):
Yeah.
Go meet with Jo Beth.
Come meet with me. And it's,you know, it's just. Man, it just
feels so good to know thatyou're not doing it alone. And you
invest in yourself. You'reworth it.
What do you know? You're so young.
I'm just a child. Shout out toBotox. Yeah.
Been through a lot.

(59:59):
Oh, all right, well, just to recap.
App, your business is calledNWA Grief Specialist. And you can
find me on any of socialmedias there and Jo Beth Evans on
Facebook. And then you guys, Ithink, are gonna link to the application.
So if somebody does wanna workwith me, it is an application process
because I'm very selective ofwho I work with. So if you. Yeah,

(01:00:24):
I don't like. Because you worktogether. Right. So if I bring somebody
in that's like a total, like,not really committed, not really
in it, like, you're going tobring the group down. And so, like,
I'm looking for women who areheavy hitters, ready to kick some
doors down. And so if you wantto be in, like, apply. And that opens
this week. And, you know, nomatter when you're listening, you
can contact me on social. Theapplication open and closes every

(01:00:47):
month or two months. Okay.
Yeah. So we'll have thatlisted. And just know that we all
have support.
Yeah. Yep.
Thank you so much.
Yep. Thank you, guys.
Did you like the episode thatyou heard today? Great. Share it
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