June 12, 2025 • 61 mins
Happy Pride Month!! All day every day.
Amidst the tapestry of life’s myriad challenges, this episode illuminates the profound journey of acceptance and understanding within the familial framework, particularly when a child comes out as part of the LGBTQ+ community.
We delve into the candid experiences shared by Michelle, a mother who navigates the complexities of parenting a daughter who courageously embraced her identity in a world that can often be unyielding. Through heartfelt anecdotes, we explore the nuances of love, the weight of societal expectations, and the strength found in being true to oneself.
Our discourse underscores the importance of fostering open dialogue, compassion, and unwavering support, as we collectively strive for a society where diversity is celebrated. Join us in this enlightening conversation, where we not only share stories of triumph and resilience but also embrace the beauty of authenticity and the power of familial bonds.
- Book a free consultation with One Soul Boudoir Studio, Now! Use code “Lifestyle event” for a special rate!
- Don't forget to follow us on FB and Instagram
- RATE and REVIEW!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:10):
If you got a problem?
Lottie's got the answer?
She won't sugarcoat them?
Cause it's Lottie and Lottiedon't lie?
Cause it's Lottie and Lottiedon't lie.
Welcome.
Welcome to Lottie Don't Lie.
(00:31):
It's Samantha and Melissa, andwe are here to share some experiences
of our own before we start offwith our awesome episode with Michelle
and her daughter.
And I'm really excited becauseSam won't tell me what her fail is.
Yeah, it's.
It's pretty good.
Yeah.
Every time.
(00:52):
Courtney will probably neverlet me live this down, so.
You already know it's good, right?
Yeah.
You know those, like, funnythings of, like, what I ordered versus
what I got?
Oh, yeah.
And like, somebody will ordera rug and then it's like a little
tiny, like 2 inch long rugbecause they didn't read the description.
Yeah.
(01:12):
So there's this beautiful,beautiful dress that's like.
And I.
I will try to remember to postphotos of it.
There's this beautiful dressthat, like an ad on Facebook caught
my attention and I just fellin love with it.
And it's like the spaghettistrap top, like, V neck, and it's
like, looks like quilted things.
Like, it looks like a ragquilt that it's made out of.
(01:34):
So like a bunch of randompatches and I don't know, it, you
know, looks miscombobulated.
Oh, yeah.
I want to see post a picture.
I definitely will.
Now.
What I got made me so sadbecause what I got was a freaking,
like, mumu made out of like a pillowcase.
When the pixelated image ofthe dress that I wanted, like, ironed
(01:55):
on to it.
No.
Yeah.
You're kidding me.
Like, there was literally adress with a little iron on.
Patch.
Yes.
On a dress.
Like, like, it literally isthe image.
So, like, you know, straps inV and then like an crappy image of
(02:17):
like, what the dress issupposed to look like just kind of
pasted onto it.
Okay.
That's hilarious.
Did you.
I'm dying.
Do you have a picture of thedress when you got it?
I.
Purdue.
Yeah, I have it before.
And you know what I thought Iwas getting.
And yeah, you have the after, right?
Yes, I have it.
Yeah.
Okay, good.
(02:37):
I guess it's good.
And then she was like, well,where'd you get it from?
And I told her what addressor, you know, like, what website
I got it from.
And it.
I.
I'll have to put that on soyou guys don't do that too.
And she like, pulled she's sogood at stalking things.
And she just real quick pulledup the website.
She goes, you realize that,like, this is common.
(03:00):
Like, this website is a Don'tbuy from.
Like, they're bad.
And I was like, oh, shit.
No, I didn't know that it wasa Facebook ad.
So I thought it was, you know, good.
No, no.
Anybody can do a Facebook ad.
Yeah, there's that.
That's hilarious.
I will show you all thebeautiful dress and the mumu that
(03:21):
I got.
And the success that came outof that fail.
Learning not to just buy shitoff of Facebook.
Yes.
There you go.
I just want to make sure thisisn't going to happen again.
Got it.
Very sad.
You're like, I.
Yeah, you're like, I.
Also want to make sure.
(03:43):
I want to be sad, but I alsocan't help but laugh because it's
hilarious.
Oh, yeah, she.
She laughed.
Good at that one.
That's funny.
What do you got?
So my fail is more of anexperience that I had.
Since it's Pride Month, I'mjust going to share it.
That it kind of actually mademe a little mad.
(04:05):
But I was proud of myself, Ithink, for how I handled it.
Because in the past, I might have.
I don't know.
So we're in the shop andthere's a lot of very.
I want to just say, like, notpolitically minded, conservative,
but just like, like, nor,like, like conservative women.
Like, just that shop at the shop.
(04:26):
I don't mean politically.
I just mean as humans.
I was showing somebody thisfabric that's actually children's
fabric, and it has rainbowsand clouds.
Clouds and sunshines on it.
And the woman said to me, itwas like a straight face and said,
is this for the gays?
And I was like, I got so offended.
(04:47):
And I looked at her and I.
I'm.
I said.
And I knew she wanted me tosay no or.
And I, like, I just looked ather and pretended I didn't know what
she was talking about because,like, why would you have a problem
with that?
And so I just looked at herand said, oh, it can be, if that's
what you want it to be.
Oh, my goodness.
(05:08):
I'm just like, what?
I just, like, this is a.
For one, it's a children's fabric.
And for two, what's wrong ifit is?
So what if it is?
And so I just said, oh, well,is that what you'd like?
It can be if you want.
And I knew that.
What was her response?
It was, oh, my gosh, no.
And I Was like, well, I.
(05:29):
I said, well, I actually havea lot of people in my life that I'm
very close to that do identifythat way, and I don't see a problem
with it.
And she was just, like,suddenly trying to backpedal, and
I'm glad I made her freaking uncomfortable.
I made her very uncomfortableon purpose, and I'm proud of it because
I'm so over, like, trying toplay nice and pander to people because
(05:51):
I want to make sure they shopand give me business still.
And it's like, yes, we needbusiness, but we also need good people
in the shop.
And so I know she'll comeback, but I still.
Yeah.
Anyway, it was just anexperience I had, and I.
It made me sad.
Thank you.
But, yeah, I think I am alittle too.
(06:13):
Yeah, it does.
It's uncomfortable.
It is uncomfortable for you.
Yeah, that's all.
I just wanted to kind of say,I know we all handle things our own
way, but this time I was.
I kind of was okay.
I.
That I.
I kind of had that uncomfortableness.
Let.
Let it just sit there and.
(06:34):
Yeah, so it was sad.
It's kind of a sad fail, butalso, I don't know, we all have to
stand up for things in our ownway, I guess.
Or is it like a badass fail?
Because I'm sorry.
Like, that's not.
I hope so.
I hope so.
It's the least of the least Icould do.
(06:55):
I feel like there's too manyyears that have just kind of, like,
not wanted that confrontationand probably didn't stand up like
I should have for people, but I'm.
I'm not anymore.
So.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's.
It's hard, but.
And it's not saying.
I'm not saying anyone shouldhandle things a very, like, the way
I did or that it was the rightway, but for me, it was, and I'm
(07:18):
feeling good about it.
I like that.
No, that's.
Well, I'm not gonna make thisabout me, so never mind.
But, well.
Well, now you have to say.
Only.
(07:38):
If you want to.
No, I.
I appreciate that story.
I think that, you know, maycome surprise, surprise that I am
be.
I, you know, voiced that I amvery bi now.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, to say that.
And, like, I think if someone,like, would have said that to me,
like, yeah, I'm not gonna goout and buy, like.
(07:59):
I mean, I don't, like,showcase my pride stuff, like, all
over, you know, or anywhere wego, but it's like, I would get really
uncomfortable if someone waslike, you know, talking bad about,
like, my lifestyle choices and that.
Like, I just quiet because I'm like.
I don't know what to say.
Yeah.
Because people have a tendencyto assume that you just think and
(08:21):
behave and act the way thatthey do.
So, like, I have a lot ofpeople that'll come into the shop
and they just assume that.
And they'll say things likethat and assume that I'm just agreeing
with them.
And it's like, I don't want tobe quiet anymore.
And it's gonna be.
It would be hard if.
Yeah, that makes sense, Sam.
Because it's like, wait,you're talking about me?
To me?
Yeah, Well, I try to.
I think that I probably juststill would have been silent because
(08:42):
it's so uncomfortable.
It is uncomfortable.
It was.
It was.
But we just gotta do the bestwe can.
That's all I can say.
Well, I love you.
And I love you.
Thank you.
And before we get into ourepisode with Michelle, which is one
(09:04):
of your best friends that alsoworks with you in the shop, I want
to remind everyone of theboudoir studio, One Soul, that we've
been working with and talkingwith a lot.
We both had such an amazingtime getting to know them in and
out of the studio.
And just again, to remind you,we want you to experience that, too.
And so we have a link in ourbio where you guys can click and
(09:26):
have a free consultation withthem and get a special rate for your
own session.
And you will love them.
Just go into the studio.
It's beautiful.
It's so welcoming.
They're welcoming.
And you'll fall in love, too,and have a great time.
Yeah.
And actually, would this be agood time to share?
Like, hey, come on out andvisit us for wine and such.
(09:46):
We are.
We have a wine night onThursday, Friday the 27th.
And we would love anyone.
Wait, you said Thursday.
Friday is Friday, right?
Friday.
What did I say?
Okay, it was Friday the 27th.
Oh, yeah.
You said Thursday, Friday the 27th.
And I was like, wait, to beclear, Friday the 27th, we're going
(10:09):
to be at the One Soul BoudoirStudio having a wine and cheese night
and just letting people, like,get to see the studio and kind of,
like, know what it's about.
And it's not like you have to.
Oh, I'm going.
I have to.
Oh, yeah.
There's no pressure.
There's going to be not a sale.
This is hanging out like alittle beautiful place with awesome
people.
Yeah.
(10:30):
And you guys should definitelytry to make it.
If you can wait.
What did you say, Sam?
I accidentally.
I don't remember what I said.
I just talk.
You guys, we're a mess.
We should probably let you getsome shell.
Yeah.
So enjoy.
(10:57):
So we have with us today oneof the.
My favorite people.
Her name is Michelle.
She actually works with me inthe shop here.
This is Melissa.
But I think you guys know ourvoices by now, right?
Obviously.
So, anyway, she works with mein the shop.
She keeps me, as you guys haveprobably already know, I'm super
(11:17):
add.
She keeps me straight.
She has been in her past.
She has had many careers.
She has been a mom, band mom extraordinaire.
She has been.
She worked at a dance school.
She worked in a bank.
She does finance.
She has so many capabilities.
But that's not even why we're here.
You do have credentials.
(11:38):
She does, actually.
I can even pump gas.
I worked at a gas station.
Is that still a thing?
Oh, it is.
We went to a gas station andsomeone came out and pumped our gas.
In New Jersey?
No, but.
But no, it was cool.
In New Jersey they don't letyou pump your own gas.
Oh, yeah.
Still, that's the only stateleft, Right?
Well, that's nice.
(11:59):
Does Washington.
I don't know.
There might be.
When I was young, I want tosay Washington was still doing that,
but.
I don't know Jersey for sure.
That's cool.
They get offended.
It's funny.
We met one of the handyQuilter educators that came to the
shop and helped us with ourexpo this last time, Michelle.
She's.
Lee is from New Jersey, andshe was joking and being like, how
(12:22):
would I know?
I'm from New Jersey.
I don't even know how to pump gas.
Oh, my God.
And no one would know if theydidn't know.
Yeah.
How would you know?
So funny.
You just sit there in the carwaiting for somebody to show up.
So funny.
She said she does that sometimes.
An accident in the beginningbecause she's now she travels as
an educator.
And she said that, like,sometimes she gets new places and
(12:44):
she'd forget, wait.
And now she also said shewould pull in, she would get out
of her car and look on whichside the gas tank was on and then
get back in her car.
Simon just taught me.
No, that's what Lee just learned.
Simon just taught me that.
Your car tells you what sideit's on.
Yeah.
So she was telling us thisreally funny story and hoping we
wouldn't know, but we werelike, yeah.
(13:05):
She's like, you knew that.
I didn't.
It's Fine.
I didn't.
Okay.
She is fine.
Yes.
She's so funny, though.
She.
Okay.
Yeah.
See, if you don't know, youdon't know.
Yeah, but if I would haveheard someone say how, like, how
would I know how to pump gas?
I'm from Jersey.
I would have been like, arethey rich or something, Like, I wouldn't
have known that.
You don't write gas if you don't.
(13:26):
Know, you don't know.
That is the common theme ofthis episode, I guess.
Oh, yeah.
It's gonna go right in.
It is.
I think so.
Because Michelle's gonna talkto us about not knowing some things
and then finding them out.
As a parent.
As a parent, you don't knowthings until you know things.
Because there is no handbookthat says this is how you parent
and this is the right way andhow you're going to survive.
(13:48):
It's every kid's different andhow you handle each kid.
Even if you have five kids,you have to parent them differently,
and they're going to throwsomething new at you that you haven't
experienced yet.
Right.
Michelle has a story that wethought would be interesting to kind
of ask questions and pick herbrains on how she was able to parent
that and that situation.
Because we do have a friend.
(14:10):
Yeah, no, you're fine.
You're fine.
You're going about it perfectly.
I was just.
I was just going to say aboutwhat you were about to say.
We actually had in a past episode.
Do you guys remember talkingto Yellow in our very first season?
And she was talking aboutcoming out in this world, and she
came out to her parents andthey had a really difficult time
with it.
And she just had a different.
(14:31):
She had a totally differentperspective, I think, than a lot
of people who had to come outin the past to their parents.
And she was just like, youknow, they're.
They love you, but they alsohad built in their mind, like, a
life that they thought youwere going to live.
And so they just have to,like, kind of get used to the new.
New.
Right.
Absolutely.
That's the perfect way thatyou're explaining it.
(14:53):
It was, I think, her.
I think if I remembercorrectly, her exact words were,
they have to go through amorning of the life that they expected
and thought you were going to have.
And, you know, you have togive them time.
And I thought.
We thought that that wasinteresting because you do hear like,
oh, I came out and my parentsweren't okay with it, and, you know,
(15:14):
they kicked me out or whatever.
And it's like really dramatic.
And that, unfortunately, isthe story that a lot of people coming
out do have to go through.
But it was eye opening to hear.
You know, maybe that was mystory and had to go through something
along those lines.
But at the same time, I'm ableto recognize that they are struggling,
(15:35):
too.
Right.
So Michelle actually is goingto share her story with us.
Hi.
Skirts up, squad.
We have someone out there.
Okay.
I am gonna say.
I think I'm like, 90.999.
Sure.
Michelle's our biggest fan.
Yes.
(15:56):
You, man.
I do, yes.
What's in the favorite?
I would.
Should we mention it?
But Melissa.
Well, no.
Yes.
Yes.
It wasn't me that brought hername up today.
It was me.
I'm sorry.
But I love the.
The whole idea of the babytherapists and that people who may
(16:19):
not have a lot of moneybecause it.
It takes money and.
And you.
It's.
It takes more than money, butit takes money to get therapy and
that there is therapy outthere, hopefully for everybody.
And not every therapist worksbecause we went through that with
Emily in high school, that shehad this older lady, and.
And it just.
There was just no way thislady was going to be at all.
(16:41):
I'm so glad that you said that.
Yeah, me too.
Because you're not the onlyone that has said that episode because
it pinpointed how even if it'sa baby therapist, you can get help.
And so I kind of forgetsometimes that, like, that was a
really helpful episode.
It was, too.
So.
So, yeah.
Okay.
(17:01):
Wow.
So Emily was in therapy too,in high school.
Have you ever actually, justout of curiosity.
No, I am not.
Okay.
What was.
Can I ask what that was for?
It was actually something shesaid at school, and that triggered
then the.
The counselor.
And so it was.
And it was funny because we.
We got forced into the therapybecause I didn't know.
(17:24):
But then I.
I definitely advocated againstthe lady she didn't like because
that wasn't going to work.
It wasn't going to be the thing.
And we got her somebody thatshe did like.
That she did like, but she wascutting and so hard.
Yeah, for sure.
All my friends.
That.
That was my friend group.
Yeah.
Once the school finds out, youkind of don't have an option.
(17:44):
Right.
Yeah.
But then she almost got introuble because of all the therapy
that was happening.
Then we were like, in thiswindow of you've missed too much
school.
Even though they forced thetherapy, it was like this whole thing.
Yeah.
No.
Yeah.
So it's like she couldn't missany more.
School.
It was like, it became this whole.
(18:05):
Oh, that's an issue to me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because, like, they want herto be her most healthy self.
So they pretend.
Right.
They try to advocate orpretend they're advocating for her,
but then as soon as she's,like, taking the steps to be healthy.
Yeah.
They're like, oh, you'remissing school.
And that's probably.
What about the parent.
(18:25):
Because.
Yeah, because you've got.
The parent has to make sureyou go to school.
You get in trouble, and thenyou get in trouble, so.
Oh, you're right.
You get, like, 12 days, andthen it's like, if they miss anymore,
then you get reported, and then.
Yeah, I thought you weresaying you get 12 days of prison.
12 absences that are unexcited.
(18:46):
Used, I believe.
Gotcha.
But these were excused.
Like, they.
We had.
They.
We had the.
All the stuff, but still, sheneeded to also.
That's frustrating.
Yeah.
That was her freshman year,and then we moved to Georgia.
Baby.
Yes, you.
Yeah.
Okay, so tell us a little bitabout yourself.
If you just kind of a littlehistory and.
Okay.
We were from Ohio, and we werein Columbus, Ohio, and she was at.
(19:11):
She was actually, when shecame out, she was in eighth grade,
but she was in the high schoolband, so we were on a high school
band trip.
Okay.
Because you could do that in Ohio.
You could.
You could do the high schoolclasses early, which I don't think
you can do that here.
What do you mean?
Like, she could.
She already was taking algebraand Spanish and band in high school,
(19:33):
even though.
Because they were connected,the schools are kind of across the
street.
Oh, got you.
So she could take.
She had some classes goinginto high school before she even
got into.
Kind of like kids taking APclasses and going, like, college.
College.
Yeah.
But she did it in junior and high.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She's so smart, too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She's a smart girl.
(19:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So.
So.
And I found out on a band trip.
We were in New York City onthis band trip, and I get a text.
Mom, I'm gay.
And I'm at the front of thebus, and she's in the back of the
bus.
Right.
And so we wait.
Did a friend, like, dare herto say it or.
Well, that's what I.
So I peek up, and I'm like,does somebody have her phone?
(20:15):
Like, are they.
Because she's in eighth gradewith these high schoolers.
So I was like, did they takeher phone?
Are they teasing her?
Because I did.
I had no clue.
Oh, was she at all?
Bullied.
At all.
And you thought that was whereyou went to, or you just kind of.
I just was not expecting that.
Right.
So I was like, well, maybethey've got her phone and they're
just teasing her and she's thebaby of the.
(20:36):
Okay.
On the.
There were other 8th gradersthat she wasn't the only one.
But not very many.
But still, you still think,well, these are high schoolers, so
maybe I should look.
And no, there was totally calmback there, like they were all sleeping
or whatever.
And I'm like, oh.
So I'm like, okay, okay.
They trusted you.
Yeah, totally.
(20:56):
Right.
And it could, though, as.
I don't know.
I guess I should ask in aminute, like, maybe what your relationship
was like together if it waslike really close and really, really
open.
But in my mind, I could seethat being.
She can't overreact right now.
We're on a bus.
Right.
We're on a bus.
This public.
(21:17):
She can't freak out on me.
But I think it also.
Because I was the opposite.
Where we were, I was very LGBT friendly.
High school.
Yeah.
The high school, the city.
And you've.
So I think it also.
This trip and being aroundthese high schoolers, who several
(21:38):
of them were also in thecommunity, I think it just gave her
the courage too.
Okay.
Or maybe the knowledge or whatever.
It helped her to.
Yeah.
Say something.
Wow.
Because at first I've.
Your.
Your first reaction is like,well, you're only in eighth grade.
Like, you're still a baby.
Do you know what you want?
Yeah, because, you know.
(21:59):
But I know that people knowway early.
Yeah.
I mean, you know, people.
Kids in 8th grade are dating straightly.
Yeah.
Right.
And.
Yeah.
See, I didn't think of thatthat way.
I don't think of them.
It's so interesting becauseyou're right.
Like now I came.
I don't know.
Were you guys pretty.
I was pretty sheltered.
I wasn't even allowed to,like, even think about dating until
I was six.
Boyfriends in eighth grade.
(22:19):
We'd go to the mall and, youknow, mom would be in one side of
the mall and we get to holdhands and go perusing.
Well, she was so busy with herband and dancing and.
Well, no way.
She wasn't dancing anymore.
But it just seemed like shewas so busy.
There wasn't.
There were the school dances,but then you've kind of.
If you were a chaperone, theywere on a separate sides of the room
(22:41):
sometimes.
So I just wasn't even thinkingof the dating scene.
She's a Baby.
But to answer your question,Sam, I was like, I was a stay at
home mom.
Although I worked, like, Iworked at her preschool.
When she went to preschool, Iworked at her preschool.
And when she went toelementary, I worked at her elementary.
(23:02):
That was my mom's dream.
She wanted to work in myschool, that she could be still with
me.
Yeah.
So I totally like that.
And then.
And then I was at her dancestudio, so.
So I was totally, like,available to drive her around, encourage
all of her things.
And.
And then in middle school, youkind of have to step back.
So I worked at the Light.
I just volunteered at thelibrary one day a week.
(23:23):
And that's when I then got thebank job.
Was when she was in.
Actually was in high school.
But middle school kind ofstarts to wean you from your kids
a little bit.
The parent, the teachers don'twant the help that the.
That the elementary schoolteachers did.
Yeah.
They're kind of like, I got this.
Yeah.
Was the elementary school,like, was she at an age in elementary
(23:48):
school where she started tolike, mom, you're too close to me,
like, go to your classroom or whatever?
She actually.
I won, it's called a gemaward, which was for volunteering
for the school.
I got.
I got nominated by two people,and one of them was Emily, which
is flooring, because you don'tknow until after.
(24:08):
How old was she?
Fourth or fifth grade.
That's so right.
So she had to write up a page.
She didn't even do herhomework, and she had to write up
a paper as to why I deservedit and all this stuff.
So, yeah, that was.
But your heart just exploded.
Yeah.
So she has always appreciatedall the work you put in.
(24:28):
It's never been like, did yougo through this stage of, like, teen
stage of I hate mom, I'm doingeverything wrong?
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, absolutely.
High school was rough.
Oh, my God.
High school was so roughbecause I would, like, the demands
and the.
She could come home and she'dbe like, slam the door.
Go up to a room and never talkto you.
(24:49):
Or come and sit on the couchand talk to you.
You just never knew what youwere getting, what was going to walk
through that door.
And you couldn't ask.
That's true.
If my parents had tried to belike, what are we getting today?
I would have been like, yeah,now it's a door.
Yeah, exactly.
And if the door slams, you'relike, well, it must have been a bad
day.
But you obviously, you don'twant to talk about it.
(25:10):
Yeah.
So you Kind of have thatwhole, oh, boy.
So, yeah, so I'd say I.
And then, you know, back tothe, you know, I was just like, okay,
cool.
You know, that's.
But you.
I was.
It made me sad as far as, likea parent, because I thought, oh,
your life just got harder.
I felt like, wow, because it's hard.
Life's hard enough.
Right?
(25:31):
You're right.
And then if you put thiselement that's not always accepted
and not always, you just feltlike it just made.
Life harder and actuallyusually not accepted.
Especially, I was gonna saywhen I was young, but maybe, you
know, Emily's still.
What?
She's 24.
6.
24.
Oh, yeah, she's 24.
No, she's.
(25:52):
She's 27.
She's 27.
Michelle's like, I was gonnabe younger for a second.
I was.
I was enjoying it.
Oh, I see that selfishness.
Yes, please.
No, she's just 18.
What are you talking about?
She's a baby.
Because I was thinking.
(26:12):
I mean, when I was young, itwas not accepted.
We had Matthew.
Oh, I'm so embarrassed that Iforgot his last name because it should
never have been forgotten, butobviously tortured and beaten for
his identity in the 90s.
And I remember that happening.
And like, so I guess she'smore in the 2000s, but still it's.
(26:35):
It's not accepted.
But any.
Anytime, any of her friendswho have super religious parents,
they can get kicked out.
They can get.
And it's just sad because you're.
You're trying to be who youare, and these are the people who
you love and want to, youknow, who are your family.
Yeah.
And now all of a sudden, youmean nothing to them.
(26:56):
I don't.
I don't understand that.
I could have never.
I don't either, understand.
Done that to her.
Right.
You know, so.
And that makes life evenharder if you don't have your family
to back and everything.
So.
So you're sad about thestruggles that you already see.
Yeah.
How long did it take untilyou're able to, like, verbally address
(27:18):
it with her?
Because you're trapped on aschool bus.
Oh, yeah.
So did you text her right away?
Like, I wanted to know that too?
Yeah, I said.
I said, oh, cool.
Cause, you know.
Yeah.
I always.
I always say every day she's cool.
She says cool beans.
I got her a sticker that sayscool beans.
Yeah.
How that is.
So, yeah, that's my.
Yeah.
And.
(27:38):
And then for the rest of thetrip, she actually sat with me on
the bus because I didn't comeback as negative.
And.
And she's.
And I think she'd also texted,will you tell dad?
And I said, yeah, I'll tell Dad.
Like, you know, no big deal.
How dad now, surely.
Yes.
Yeah.
(27:58):
He traveled a lot, so, yes,they're close.
And he adores the Bajeebi's advert.
I've actually seen him with her.
Yeah.
Yeah, he does pretty great.
But he did travel all thetime, so I wouldn't say on the same
level because I was the one inthe mud doing all this stuff.
And he was.
He spent at least two weeksevery month in Portland, Oregon.
(28:21):
We would even tease, like, ona holiday, we'd say, oh, we.
Because, like, he had a second family.
And we'd say, oh, we won.
We wouldn't.
Oh, you know, but it was just weird.
So.
Yeah.
And he's from Indiana, so it'svery conservative Indiana in general.
Not all Indiana people are.
But it was a thing, like, Ihad to tell him.
(28:42):
And then he, you know, ofcourse, she was in eighth grade,
like I said.
And then he's like, well, whatdoes she know?
You know, that kind of stuff.
I'm like, well, you're gonnaaccept it and you're gonna, you know.
Oh, you just said, hey, thisis how it is.
You're not gonna approach her.
And.
Yeah, and I was ready for thatwith all the family, like, even the
grandparents.
And it was immediatelyshocking how.
(29:03):
Yeah.
How.
Well, they accepted.
Yeah.
Well, they accepted her.
Really?
Yeah.
Because I think.
I don't know if they knew orif you just.
Once you get.
Sometimes with.
Not with all families, butsometimes when you get that, you
just are like, you know, thisis my granddaughter.
I have loved her this whole time.
I'm just gonna.
(29:23):
Yeah.
Still love her.
And.
And they've been very accepting.
Oh, that's so beautiful.
Yeah.
And they're pretty conservative.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They're from Indiana.
If my dad, who's from Ohio.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just because you think oldschool, you know, he's 20 years older
than me, and you just think,you know, his life.
Hopefully life is gettingbetter and easier and it's getting
(29:45):
more accepted, but back in way.
Right.
It wasn't right.
So what made you feel like,this is okay?
It's fine.
Like, what made you not bat an eye?
Like, if you grew up in aconservative home, like, what would
have made.
Oh, I didn't.
You did not.
Oh, no, I'm sorry.
Oh, I thought you were sayingyour dad was conservative.
(30:06):
Well, you know, he's, you know.
No, Ohio's Not Ohio's much.
Yeah.
Like I say in Columbus, it was.
It was just there.
So I had already.
I had friends that were.
Her preschool she went to,they had a lesbian.
It was a Montessori school.
And there was lesbian couplethat were doing the preschool, the
(30:26):
three to.
Or three to six age group.
So I was very much around it more.
And so, yeah, I guess I had.
I guess I had the precursor inlife to be like, oh, okay, and just
continue on.
Yeah, I.
I was.
My best friend when I was,like, youngest.
Like, my first friend, her.
(30:47):
She had two moms.
And I remember not eventhinking anything of it.
Like, I was like, oh, cool.
Like, this is awesome.
And, like, never thinkinganything of it.
But then one of my parents isjust, you know, not a great human.
And so I would hear, like, allthis negativity about it.
And as a kid, you get, like,really confused.
(31:09):
And I just remember thinking,like, why is it weird?
Like, there's still two parents.
You're like, I don't know.
I think I found it more weirdwhen a, you know, a friend was like,
oh, my parents got divorced,so I'm just with my dad or something.
Then I'd be like, whoa, that's weird.
But, like, to hear two moms orI have two dads or something, I was
like, oh, two parents.
(31:29):
That makes sense.
Yeah.
So I didn't want to put, like,a negative slant on the family.
So that's not what I'm tryingto do with this question.
But I do wonder, becausegrowing up in the place and the.
Where I grew up, it was verymuch this idea of love the sinner,
(31:50):
hate the sin.
And it's like, that is not acceptance.
That's not acceptance.
Right.
So I'm wondering if there wasany of this.
So, like, in the.
With the family and Emily andthe grandparents, how would you say
it was, like, true?
Would you say it was true,true, true, deep acceptance?
Or was it more like, I acceptyou and I love you, I do hope that
you.
(32:11):
I hope to come to your senses.
You know what I mean?
Right.
I would say I had a friend,actually, that I walked with every
day in the mornings.
And she.
She was.
She tried to say, you know,emily needs to see our youth minister.
And I'm like, no, that's not.
That's not gonna happen.
And she's not gonna see heryouth minister.
(32:32):
But the family, they probablywere hesitant, and they probably
maybe hoped that it would be.
She would be wrong.
Right.
But they never ever, like,really verbalized it or made a thing
about it.
That's good.
At least they let her know.
Yeah.
And they could have known I'mpretty strong.
It's even in Indiana.
(32:53):
They probably.
I think they were like, wow,what are we getting?
Okay, so wait.
What you guys don't know isMichelle Is what, 4 foot 11?
Yeah.
410.
410.
Okay.
Sorry.
No, hey, give it to me.
Take the lynch.
And she is tough.
Yeah.
Like, she.
She'll.
You stand up.
Yeah.
For people.
Like, I feel like you protectme a lot of the times.
(33:16):
Oh, yeah.
Well, right.
Yeah.
If it's wrong, it's wrong.
I like that.
You will not.
You will not step on my friend.
She's so accepting of everything.
She gives her an extra inchand she's like, yeah, you give her
an.
Extra year on her life.
Yeah.
You stand up for me.
Yeah, yeah, I do do that.
(33:38):
You're not taking our electric.
That's right.
We had that happen.
She does.
She tells people what's up.
And so like, I'm putting thatin my phone.
Ask Michelle to help me out.
For sure.
Yeah, for sure.
And so like.
Yeah, there probably couldhave been an element of that.
But it's nice to know that they.
Regardless, I guess.
(33:58):
Yeah.
They never made her feel,like, different or that, you know,
that she wasn't accepted,which was good.
Very good.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because a lot of people don'tget that.
Too many people don't.
That's.
It's just sad.
So you mentioned that therewas the incident where the school
found out about cutting andthen mandated therapy.
(34:20):
Is this before this text or after?
Oh, it would have been afterbecause it was in high school.
So I think she had a.
A.
I don't know what caused it.
And I.
And I don't know, just toclarify, because this is a little
confusing for me.
8th grade in the schools inGeorgia, in the south is high school.
(34:41):
But from hearing the ages thatyou're talking about high school,
middle school, it sounds likethe grades are a little different.
Well, no, eighth grade isjunior high, but you can take high
school classes.
Oh, yeah.
I don't think we're broken uplike that.
Right.
No, I.
I didn't get that impression.
Wait, No, I am wrong.
I'm wrong.
You're right.
Yeah.
You're right.
(35:01):
Okay.
Yeah, I know.
She always does that to me too.
And I'm like, damn it.
Damn it.
I was confused.
You know, Been out of school along time.
Okay, sorry.
Yeah.
Yes.
So in eighth grade is when shetexts you, and then high school is.
(35:22):
When the incidents when shestarted cutting, or at least when
they found out about the cutting.
Right.
And you had not known.
No, I didn't know.
I didn't have a clue.
And then the.
The old therapist I wastalking about, she was like, you
need to remove all the knivesin the house.
And I was like, well, thatseems extreme, because.
I don't know.
It just.
(35:42):
It sounded wrong the way shesaid it.
Yeah.
Like.
And I just.
I don't know.
I just.
Yeah, you had feelingsalready, too.
Like, Emily doesn't like her.
That also seems a little extra.
So how did you find somebodythat was.
Same therapy, same, like, practice.
Okay.
Yeah.
Oh, then that's very.
Yeah.
And I just asked for a new one.
(36:02):
I said, we need to try a new one.
And so we did.
I'm so proud of you.
Yeah.
Because it's really hard toadvocate for yourself.
And as a teen, your parents,for sure need to be advocating for
you.
Yeah.
Not.
But not always.
Do they?
Or in the right way.
Yeah, I think that.
I know.
Right way.
Yes.
Yeah.
That.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
(36:22):
Yes.
I probably should take that back.
I do think most parents aretrying to try everything that they
can because they love their children.
Just sometimes it's not alwayswhat they need.
The right way.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So the cutting is in high school.
This is after she's come out.
Did you ever learn one?
Because I was around that,like, all my friends literally were.
(36:45):
And actually they all got suspended.
I did not.
I was not a part of that, butthey actually ended up all getting
suspended for it because theywere doing that and then taking,
like, ibuprofen or somethingalso at school for it.
And I don't understand the suspense.
I feel like they.
They all got suspended, andthen because all their parents worked,
(37:06):
my mom ended up having towatch all of them.
And they had to.
They had all of their schoolwork at home, and.
And then my mom gave all ofthem, like, strict chores.
Like, hey, have you everchanged a shower curtain before?
And they're like, no.
She goes, good.
I have three showers.
Like, how did your mom get so lucky?
(37:26):
She got her own little work.
Yeah.
My friend, one of my friendsis still, like, traumatized.
She goes, like, anytime shestill, like, sees my mom, she goes,
I'm not touching your shower.
She goes, that's fine.
That's fine.
But, yeah, but I saw how,like, their moms felt and how it
(37:46):
was, like, in their houseafter all that, and you could tell
that they.
That's very alarming for them.
And they all reacted differently.
And how they handled it.
One of them did removebathroom doors.
Bedroom doors.
Whoa.
All privacy.
It was a privilege and was all removed.
So extreme.
Like, how did that feel for you?
(38:08):
And did you ever get kind ofanswers of what brought that on?
Oh, yeah.
And did you know other parentsthat were dealing with this?
Oh, not really other children,but it seemed like it was.
And this probably soundsreally weird, but it seemed really
in at the time, too.
But I don't know other parentsthat were, like, no other parents
were talking about.
(38:29):
No, you're not wrong, becauseshe's only, what, three years younger
than me?
So, yeah, that's about.
Yeah, but I don't.
I don't think it had to dowith being a lesbian as much as she
did have a breakup.
So maybe that.
And I.
I don't know, you know, Iguess I don't really know why.
Why she started cutting, youknow, And I didn't understand it
(38:53):
because, like, I'll eatchocolate all day long, but yet I
don't understand.
Which is not helping your body.
Right.
But yet the whole cutting just really.
Was hard to know.
Yeah, I know what you mean.
Yeah.
You're like, yeah, I'm hurtingmyself in other ways.
Right.
By being unhealthy.
But I still don't understand why.
(39:14):
So I actually have someinsight on that because I have.
Have.
I've been there.
So I'll just share this if youdon't mind, but I had a miscarriage,
and it was really traumatic.
And I will probably share thestory at some point.
That being said, when Mother'sDay rolled around the next year,
and at the time my husband wastraveling and I was alone, I was
(39:39):
deeply, deeply hurting, and I.
I cut myself.
And I.
I don't know how to explain itother than to say I just wanted to
lose the blood that I shouldhave lost during childbirth.
And so, like, sometimes youjust think you have to punish yourself.
Do you think it was that orthat you're hurting so bad that might
(40:00):
as well make something hurt worse?
Nope.
No, no, it was just.
I just.
I just want to bleed.
I just want to hurt all the way.
I don't know how to explain it.
I really don't.
And I wish I could, becausethen maybe more people could understand
and have empathy for those whoare doing it, because it's not like
(40:21):
you're just wanting to.
I don't know.
It's.
It's a true therapy.
It's a true release of pain.
It's a true, like,therapeutic, weird thing.
And I'm not Endorsing it byany means because it is very unhealthy.
But it's a way to.
It's a way of release.
Kind of like yawning whenyou're tired, but very extreme.
(40:44):
But anyway, I didn't mean totake it away from Emily, but I did
think that it was somethingkind of important.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's relevant.
Yeah.
And I don't think her beinggay was it.
She seemed, like, gay and proud.
Like, she was telling everybody.
Oh, yeah.
And she.
Yeah, she was.
She was.
Just seemed so proud.
And it wasn't like, we can'tgo tell Grandma or we can't go tell
(41:07):
this person.
And even when we were movingto Georgia, which was after her freshman
year because my husband gottransferred, we were like, now, this
is the South.
You're going to this school.
You're brand new at this school.
Yeah, we were.
And we're like, just.
Just get a feel for it.
And she's like, nope.
Oh, no.
(41:28):
You know, like, you'll acceptme or you won't.
And we're just like, oh.
You know.
Because you don't want her toget hurt.
Right?
You know?
But, yeah, and she was fine.
And it's like one of those,like, oh, you're gonna stick to your
guns.
Okay, I gotta get my punchinggloves on.
Be the mama bear.
Exactly.
Come.
I'm ready.
I'll get ready.
(41:49):
Just like, she did a reportabout Jimmy Carter here.
It wasn't a flattering onebecause he was better after than
during or whatever.
Whatever you think.
But we're just like, know your audience.
Like, what are you doing?
Out of all the presidents youwant to dish on do, why him?
He's from here.
(42:09):
You know, so, you know, youtry, but they don't care.
They don't listen.
Oh, that is so funny.
So she's always been againstthe grain, and I don't care.
Yeah, exactly.
Oh, I love that.
Yeah.
So.
And we're close now to thisday, so very close.
Yeah.
It's really cute to watch you guys.
Yeah, I actually just.
Okay, so yesterday we were.
I had a friend here at theshop, and we're recording at the
(42:31):
shop, just so everybody knows.
But today she was flippingthrough our olive.
Yes.
She was flipping through allof the designs that we can quilt
onto a quilt.
And she saw these crazy bananas.
She's like, that's hilarious.
Has anybody ever used that?
And I said, yes, as a matterof fact, Emily moved to la, and she
(42:52):
called her mom and said, Ihave a quilting emergency.
And Michelle said, okay.
What?
But also, there's no suchthing as a quilting emergency.
And she said, I bought sheetswith bananas on them and I need a
quilt with bananas.
Oh, she did?
Yeah.
But, yeah, it's really cute tolike, you guys are very close.
Yeah.
And I love.
(43:13):
Which is awesome.
Yeah.
How you did say that there wasthe teen transition of mom can't
do anything.
Right.
How did you transition out ofthat stage?
College.
Just distance.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She went to Middle Tennessee State.
Okay.
For sound and.
Yeah.
So college definitely helpsput that distance.
(43:36):
I've heard people say thingslike, oh, yeah, it gets you ready
that.
It gets you ready to.
For them to leave.
If you were still like this,you'd be like, you can't go anywhere.
I was already bad enoughbecause I.
She wanted to go toCalifornia, which is ironic because
now she is there.
Yeah.
And I gave her a little squareof where she could go.
(43:59):
Just because.
I mean, like, it's like, no,if you have problems in California,
that's a flight.
That's a.
That's two days drive.
Yeah.
I said, if you have problemsin Tennessee, that's.
I can get there.
Yeah.
You know.
Yeah.
You don't have to go to schoolin Georgia.
But my mom was like, evenSouth Carolina.
One of us being in SouthCarolina, when her here, she was
like, no.
(44:21):
Yeah.
Right.
So, yeah, I gave her a little.
Oh, that's awesome.
And now she's in California,which she's dying to do.
Ever, ever offer all that'sgoing to.
Feel good because that was herdream goal.
Yeah.
So in a way, can we share.
What she had credits on?
Because it's already out.
Didn't she have credits onlike, the Pokemon?
Oh, poke.
(44:41):
Yeah, she used to work on Pokemon.
Yeah.
Dubbing.
Helping dub on Pokemon.
Oh, nice.
She's very smart and fancy out there.
I was wondering, did it happen?
Did it change anything foryou, like your world views, having
a daughter come out or a child?
I guess not.
Because like I say, with herpreschool, the Montessori preschool,
(45:04):
I had so many friends, Friend.
Friends that were in thatcommunity that I guess it's just
when you know people and youare friends with people, you attract
the same.
Yeah.
I'm so glad you said thatbecause I think one of the biggest
things that can happen in ourcommunities is that not enough diversity.
(45:27):
And when you pull in more anddifferent types of people, you're
so much less likely to justsay, oh, I don't like that kind of
person, because that kind ofperson is right next to you and they're
your friend.
Right.
And so, like, the more you canget a group of people that don't
think like you, the more youcan have empathy for them.
And I just think that is areally important thing to help the
(45:49):
world keep going around.
Yeah.
And it makes me think that,well, I don't have children, but
if I ever did, I think, yeah,I want to try to get to a very diverse,
like, place and raise themwhere they can meet a lot of different
kinds of people and just havethat acceptance.
Because, like you said, thatprimed you, it sounds like.
(46:09):
Yeah, it really did.
Did you see the ugly of theworld that you were expecting at
first?
Oh, that's a good question.
Because that is a good question.
Right?
Because.
Yeah, that was a big worry.
Um, probably not just because.
Because of how out and proudshe was.
(46:30):
I've seen it a little, andI've definitely seen it.
Seen it through her friendswho all of a sudden are homeless
or.
Oh, boy.
And I know like one.
One boy was going through itand then he got kicked out and then
he.
He went back home and he saidhe was cured.
Aww.
Which wasn't true, but yetthat he had a home then.
(46:53):
Oh, you know, he.
He.
Yeah, that is sad.
And then maybe once he gotolder, you know, he.
Hopefully he came back out and.
Or could come back out, but.
Because that was one of the.
That was like a banned person.
So I don't.
I don't know what's happened,but yeah, so I've.
I've seen it a little.
And she said, she says, youknow, when her and her roommate,
(47:17):
they.
She's lesbian too, but she wasn't.
She didn't know.
I should say.
In college, when they would beout together, people would look at
them like they were unicornsand go, oh, look at the lesbian couple.
You know?
You know, so you can get that, like.
And so she goes.
Sometimes you feel like anexhibited at a zoo because, you know,
(47:41):
actually I'm.
That's another thing.
I was kind of like hesitant toask you to come talk because I do
feel like sometimes when you.
We want to have conversationsabout all kinds of things, but I
never want.
Yeah.
But I never want anyone tofeel like, oh, I'm suddenly.
I'm not this.
They're looking at me like I'ma spokesperson for all of this.
Yeah.
And that's not at all.
(48:01):
This is one experience, oneside of the story.
Like.
Yeah, it's not.
And we know it can go in manydifferent ways.
And so I'm glad that you Saidthat because, like, it's really easy
to kind of make somebody an exhibit.
Yeah.
And then act like.
No, I would.
I would love to hear.
There's someone in my in onmind that would be really interesting
(48:22):
to hear their specific side ofwhat it was like to come out because
it's an even further backgeneration and it was not easy.
So different.
Yeah.
Like in the 80s, you didn'ttalk about it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, and the 90s was.
And you call people namesabout it.
But it was very dangerous.
(48:42):
Yeah.
I mean, they.
You weren't even allowed toget married until I was already out
of high school, if I remember correctly.
Wait, what?
Like, you weren't even.
Oh, yeah.
Able to get married until Iwas already graduated from high school.
So it's like.
Oh, gay couples.
Yeah.
Yeah, sorry.
Okay.
And not even in every state.
So it.
It really.
I don't know if it.
(49:04):
It's taken a long time for itto be even something thought of or.
Accepted as much as it is.
Yeah.
But we still have a long wayto go.
But it's just making me thinkof, like.
Oh, yeah.
There's like a hundreddifferent ways that this could have.
You could have felt.
You could have experienced.
She could have felt likethere's so many different possibilities
that, like, yours is probablyyour perspective and how it was for
(49:29):
you.
And your daughter is theperfect, like, ideal.
Yeah.
What you would hope and want.
Yeah.
If it were you.
For everybody.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So did she have any.
Well, no.
You said she was out and proud.
I wanted to say.
I thought that you had saidbefore that there was people who
(49:50):
rejected her and you had tokind of drop as friends along the
way.
Oh, sure.
I mean, like I say, my friendthat I walked with all the time thought
she could save her by sendingher to the youth minister.
It's just like.
It's not a choice.
Nobody makes the choice.
And I've had.
I do have friends who are moreradical about their lgbt where if
(50:11):
you aren't going to get itright, they're not going to talk
to you anymore.
I'm.
I'm a.
Less like that.
Like pronouns.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Pronouns are a good one.
Or just even acceptance.
Like, I.
I told her, no, my friend.
I said, no, I'm not sendingher to your youth minister.
But I didn't unfriend her.
Okay.
Because I, you know, I feellike people.
(50:35):
Sometimes you need it to be inyour family to even understand that
you could be accepting.
Yeah.
Sometimes you're.
You're not accepting becauseyou've never had to.
You've never had somebody you love.
Yeah.
Say, you know, say, hey, I'm.
I'm this way or whatever.
And I think, I think people,if you, once you experience it, hopefully,
(50:57):
I mean, obviously there arepeople that have their religious
beliefs that do not, no matterwhat they.
They feel like that's a sincomes first.
It's so sad.
Yeah.
People.
And, and love should alwayscome first, but.
Yeah, for sure.
But just now what I heard isthat, you know, no one's had to be
(51:18):
put in the situation where youhave to not have to, but you should.
You want to ex.
You know, accept your.
Your family because it's family.
But that was the first timethat you also encountered that too.
And you were just immediatelylike, oh, I got you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so.
But it wasn't.
That comes back to the wholething of diversity.
(51:39):
And she had surrounded herselfwith different types of people in
her.
Oh, that's like, that's right.
Okay.
Right.
So I think it's interestingwhen you're saying, let's not cut
them out of our lives.
And yes, there are times whenthe only healthy thing to do is to
cut someone out of their life.
So I am not saying last resort.
Yes.
You guys know that I'm not ablack and white person.
(52:01):
I know there's reasons andtimes you do some things, but if
you can, like, try to keepthese people in your life and show
them how love could be is what I.
That's the ideal.
Right.
We help them grow.
We hope.
Yeah.
I do think that's.
Yeah.
But it doesn't always workthat way.
I know.
Yeah, that makes sense.
(52:22):
It's interesting.
It's.
It's very.
Life is so weird.
And it's like, you wish youcould be like, yeah, these are the
rules.
But there are no rules becauseeveryone is so different.
Yeah.
And like, maybe, like we said,maybe you keep that walking partner
friend in your life and let mesee the love that you have for your
daughter.
But then maybe you might haveto the next person be like, oh, no,
(52:44):
you're toxic.
Yeah.
But then also, you know, theother perspective is her daughter.
So what if she knows that yourfriend that you're close friends
with spend, you know, everyday or whatever with.
Yeah, that's true.
Has disdain towards her forher choices.
What does that say to yourdaughter if you're like, just ignore
(53:08):
her.
It is what it is.
Yeah, we laughed about itkind, you know, because obviously
I wasn't going to send her tothe youth ministry.
And so we Kind of laughedabout it, like, to see if you would.
Have remained friends withyour friend or, you know, that close,
then maybe Emily would havefelt like, oh, you don't have my
back.
Like, would she have felt protected?
(53:29):
Right.
I think she was freakingrules, though.
Right.
Right.
Because Emily.
Maybe another child would have.
Right.
Maybe another child.
I think you're right, though.
Yeah.
Yes.
I guess what we are learningis that it didn't matter to her what.
Anyone said, but it could.
Another child, it could have,you know, shut them down and been
like, oh, mom doesn't have my back.
(53:50):
So.
But it was her best friend'smom, so I think she was just like,
oh, you know, oh, please.
She.
Do she.
Oh, Sandra.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, Sandra.
Oh, classic Sandra.
Is that right?
I don't know.
We just.
We just.
We used it a fake name.
I was like, wait a second, amI cutting this?
No, it's a fake name.
(54:12):
It's just classic Sandra.
Oh, my God.
I literally, like, startedlike, oh, shit, do I have to cut
this?
I got a, like, mental note.
No, it's a fake name.
I.
This, again, is the perfectexample of how it could and really
should go for anyone who isfaced with like, yeah, this is me,
(54:36):
and you're going to accept me.
And if you don't, then I don't.
I don't care.
Yeah, but like we said again,that's not even probably a fraction
of what most people experience.
Yeah.
And I do think and believethere's also that same person who's
just in a different place whocould say I'm.
(54:58):
I am who I am, accept me, andthen still get persecuted.
So there's so many differentperspectives that I would love to,
like, talk to.
Like, it would be challenging,but it would be interesting to also
talk to someone who is superconservative and, you know, did not
accept their child once thishappened to try and see if we can
(55:23):
figure out, like, what.
What is it?
Is it a childhood?
Is it really religion?
Like, what is it that makesthis so interesting?
So I do have a good friend andmaybe she'll talk about it at some
point, but I don't want to.
Yeah, but she.
When her daughter came out, Iremember her daughter crying and
(55:44):
begging her, like, hey, if youvote politic, like, in the political
thing for this person, I'mgoing to feel completely betrayed.
And I've never felt betrayedby you before.
And that was the thing thatkind of made her think, what am I
voting for?
And actually, I don't.
I wouldn't say I don't Knowwhere she is 100% these days?
(56:07):
Well, I know she's notconservative, so actually yes, I
do know.
But she was able to slowlykind of start looking at things and
saying, what am I voting for?
And it did change her perspective.
But she didn't.
Because she didn't.
But yeah, but there are peoplewho do abandon their children and
there's conservatives who don't.
(56:30):
So it's very interesting.
Yeah.
Sam said.
Yeah.
I look at you and I say.
That though, because I feellike another perspective is that
sometimes I do feel like whenan individual like that says, you
(56:51):
know, if you do this or don'tdo this, like I'm going to feel abandoned
and not respected by you.
Sometimes the way I see thatit comes off as bullying.
Like you will understand andsee my point or we're not, not going
to have a relationship.
And I have a hard time withthat kind of cut and dry fair, like.
(57:12):
Right.
So coming from like a 14 yearold who was just, and it was no ultimate,
you know, I mean, and.
You'Re, you don't have to likethis, you know, it could be that
way.
But there's an adult though,you know.
There'S, there's adults whoare like, if you don't vote this
way, I will not be talking toyou anymore, mom.
(57:34):
Because.
Right.
I will feel disrespected and Ifeel like that is a form, like if
you had such a goodrelationship but then just something
over a difference of a votewhich I, I, I hear you.
The votes are a big deal.
Like, I get that but thatsounds like bullying to me.
Like if you don't do this, Iwill not talk to you ever again.
(57:54):
And I, that's not what shesaid though.
Yeah, that does happen.
It does happen.
That's the only way I lookedat you.
I was like, well, the otherside is.
But yeah, not saying it, it's,you know, that person.
But, but it was interesting tolike have her be like mom and then
like, I don't understand, Idon't understand how you can vote
(58:16):
for somebody that wants tohurt me.
I think that that is reallybrave though of a teenager to be
able to have like they had,they had.
Such a good place.
This is how I see it.
It was big of the mom too tobe able to say, oh, I'll hear you
out, let me look, let me think.
And I think it took, it wasover a course of a few years.
(58:36):
Not wrong.
Right.
That is really impressive onboth sides to be able to say like,
have that mutual respect Of.
Okay, I will hear you out.
You're gonna hear me out.
And then being able to.
Yeah.
And I will say that I want tosay this person's dad did not change.
He has changed since, I wouldsay, just because of his own, you
(59:00):
know, but it.
She.
She.
She had them looking at theirlives and why they were voting the
way they were voting, and itwas just interesting.
And I'm not saying that allconservatives need to change to accept
their kids.
That's not at all what I'm saying.
But it's interesting.
It comes down to respect, butthere's a reason that everyone feels
and believes so strongly.
(59:21):
Highly do.
So I guess my curiosity comesinto picking everyone's brains on,
like, well, where did thatcome from?
Like, I'm a therapist or something.
Right.
What happened to you?
It's interesting.
It really is, because it'slike, we want to.
Like, if we could understandeach other's motives.
Right.
Yeah.
Then maybe we wouldn't have.
(59:42):
And again, I.
I feel like it just all comesdown to the same thing.
On this whole episode, I'mlike, I found the theme, like, diversity.
Like, if we can just keepsurrounding ourselves with different
types of people, we can startlearning motives and just understanding
a little bit about why peopledo what they do.
Yeah.
Just seeing a bigger picturethat instead of.
That's a narrow picture thatyou have.
(01:00:05):
Yeah.
The diversity helps you see bigger.
A bigger world.
Yeah.
And like you said, have mutualrespect for each other.
Yeah.
More food for thought, per usual.
So I'll be thinking, and I'msure we'll have more conversations
on.
On this, because I.
There are more things to becurious about.
There are.
(01:00:27):
So thank you for sharing that.
Thanks for having me.
Michelle, I know you've beenwaiting forever to be on.
I know.
She literally has been, like,from the first episode when no one
knew who we were, she wouldlisten to everything.
People know who we are.
I couldn't wait for theepisode to drop.
I couldn't wait for theepisode to drop.
Like, so cute.
(01:00:47):
Come into work.
Should be like, oh, my gosh, Ihave opinions.
Yes, I have opinions.
I do, too.
I do, too.
I'm so.
We're so lucky.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So thank you for joining us.
Thank you for sharing somedifficult and not so difficult.
It's not difficult.
She's proud of it.
Her daughter's proud of it.
(01:01:08):
This is not difficult.
Yeah.
But a.
A perspective.
Yes, we do appreciate it.
So.
All right, now we're being awkward.
Bye.
Did you like the episode thatyou heard today?
Great.
Share it with a friend.
And don't forget to rate and review.
If you got a problem?
Lottie's got the answer?
She won't sugarcoat them?
Cause it's Lottie and Lottiedon't lie?
Cause it's Lottie and Lottiedon't lie.
Welcome.
Welcome to Lottie Don't Lie.
(00:31):
It's Samantha and Melissa, andwe are here to share some experiences
of our own before we start offwith our awesome episode with Michelle
and her daughter.
And I'm really excited becauseSam won't tell me what her fail is.
Yeah, it's.
It's pretty good.
Yeah.
Every time.
(00:52):
Courtney will probably neverlet me live this down, so.
You already know it's good, right?
Yeah.
You know those, like, funnythings of, like, what I ordered versus
what I got?
Oh, yeah.
And like, somebody will ordera rug and then it's like a little
tiny, like 2 inch long rugbecause they didn't read the description.
Yeah.
(01:12):
So there's this beautiful,beautiful dress that's like.
And I.
I will try to remember to postphotos of it.
There's this beautiful dressthat, like an ad on Facebook caught
my attention and I just fellin love with it.
And it's like the spaghettistrap top, like, V neck, and it's
like, looks like quilted things.
Like, it looks like a ragquilt that it's made out of.
(01:34):
So like a bunch of randompatches and I don't know, it, you
know, looks miscombobulated.
Oh, yeah.
I want to see post a picture.
I definitely will.
Now.
What I got made me so sadbecause what I got was a freaking,
like, mumu made out of like a pillowcase.
When the pixelated image ofthe dress that I wanted, like, ironed
(01:55):
on to it.
No.
Yeah.
You're kidding me.
Like, there was literally adress with a little iron on.
Patch.
Yes.
On a dress.
Like, like, it literally isthe image.
So, like, you know, straps inV and then like an crappy image of
(02:17):
like, what the dress issupposed to look like just kind of
pasted onto it.
Okay.
That's hilarious.
Did you.
I'm dying.
Do you have a picture of thedress when you got it?
I.
Purdue.
Yeah, I have it before.
And you know what I thought Iwas getting.
And yeah, you have the after, right?
Yes, I have it.
Yeah.
Okay, good.
(02:37):
I guess it's good.
And then she was like, well,where'd you get it from?
And I told her what addressor, you know, like, what website
I got it from.
And it.
I.
I'll have to put that on soyou guys don't do that too.
And she like, pulled she's sogood at stalking things.
And she just real quick pulledup the website.
She goes, you realize that,like, this is common.
(03:00):
Like, this website is a Don'tbuy from.
Like, they're bad.
And I was like, oh, shit.
No, I didn't know that it wasa Facebook ad.
So I thought it was, you know, good.
No, no.
Anybody can do a Facebook ad.
Yeah, there's that.
That's hilarious.
I will show you all thebeautiful dress and the mumu that
(03:21):
I got.
And the success that came outof that fail.
Learning not to just buy shitoff of Facebook.
Yes.
There you go.
I just want to make sure thisisn't going to happen again.
Got it.
Very sad.
You're like, I.
Yeah, you're like, I.
Also want to make sure.
(03:43):
I want to be sad, but I alsocan't help but laugh because it's
hilarious.
Oh, yeah, she.
She laughed.
Good at that one.
That's funny.
What do you got?
So my fail is more of anexperience that I had.
Since it's Pride Month, I'mjust going to share it.
That it kind of actually mademe a little mad.
(04:05):
But I was proud of myself, Ithink, for how I handled it.
Because in the past, I might have.
I don't know.
So we're in the shop andthere's a lot of very.
I want to just say, like, notpolitically minded, conservative,
but just like, like, nor,like, like conservative women.
Like, just that shop at the shop.
(04:26):
I don't mean politically.
I just mean as humans.
I was showing somebody thisfabric that's actually children's
fabric, and it has rainbowsand clouds.
Clouds and sunshines on it.
And the woman said to me, itwas like a straight face and said,
is this for the gays?
And I was like, I got so offended.
(04:47):
And I looked at her and I.
I'm.
I said.
And I knew she wanted me tosay no or.
And I, like, I just looked ather and pretended I didn't know what
she was talking about because,like, why would you have a problem
with that?
And so I just looked at herand said, oh, it can be, if that's
what you want it to be.
Oh, my goodness.
(05:08):
I'm just like, what?
I just, like, this is a.
For one, it's a children's fabric.
And for two, what's wrong ifit is?
So what if it is?
And so I just said, oh, well,is that what you'd like?
It can be if you want.
And I knew that.
What was her response?
It was, oh, my gosh, no.
And I Was like, well, I.
(05:29):
I said, well, I actually havea lot of people in my life that I'm
very close to that do identifythat way, and I don't see a problem
with it.
And she was just, like,suddenly trying to backpedal, and
I'm glad I made her freaking uncomfortable.
I made her very uncomfortableon purpose, and I'm proud of it because
I'm so over, like, trying toplay nice and pander to people because
(05:51):
I want to make sure they shopand give me business still.
And it's like, yes, we needbusiness, but we also need good people
in the shop.
And so I know she'll comeback, but I still.
Yeah.
Anyway, it was just anexperience I had, and I.
It made me sad.
Thank you.
But, yeah, I think I am alittle too.
(06:13):
Yeah, it does.
It's uncomfortable.
It is uncomfortable for you.
Yeah, that's all.
I just wanted to kind of say,I know we all handle things our own
way, but this time I was.
I kind of was okay.
I.
That I.
I kind of had that uncomfortableness.
Let.
Let it just sit there and.
(06:34):
Yeah, so it was sad.
It's kind of a sad fail, butalso, I don't know, we all have to
stand up for things in our ownway, I guess.
Or is it like a badass fail?
Because I'm sorry.
Like, that's not.
I hope so.
I hope so.
It's the least of the least Icould do.
(06:55):
I feel like there's too manyyears that have just kind of, like,
not wanted that confrontationand probably didn't stand up like
I should have for people, but I'm.
I'm not anymore.
So.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's.
It's hard, but.
And it's not saying.
I'm not saying anyone shouldhandle things a very, like, the way
I did or that it was the rightway, but for me, it was, and I'm
(07:18):
feeling good about it.
I like that.
No, that's.
Well, I'm not gonna make thisabout me, so never mind.
But, well.
Well, now you have to say.
Only.
(07:38):
If you want to.
No, I.
I appreciate that story.
I think that, you know, maycome surprise, surprise that I am
be.
I, you know, voiced that I amvery bi now.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, to say that.
And, like, I think if someone,like, would have said that to me,
like, yeah, I'm not gonna goout and buy, like.
(07:59):
I mean, I don't, like,showcase my pride stuff, like, all
over, you know, or anywhere wego, but it's like, I would get really
uncomfortable if someone waslike, you know, talking bad about,
like, my lifestyle choices and that.
Like, I just quiet because I'm like.
I don't know what to say.
Yeah.
Because people have a tendencyto assume that you just think and
(08:21):
behave and act the way thatthey do.
So, like, I have a lot ofpeople that'll come into the shop
and they just assume that.
And they'll say things likethat and assume that I'm just agreeing
with them.
And it's like, I don't want tobe quiet anymore.
And it's gonna be.
It would be hard if.
Yeah, that makes sense, Sam.
Because it's like, wait,you're talking about me?
To me?
Yeah, Well, I try to.
I think that I probably juststill would have been silent because
(08:42):
it's so uncomfortable.
It is uncomfortable.
It was.
It was.
But we just gotta do the bestwe can.
That's all I can say.
Well, I love you.
And I love you.
Thank you.
And before we get into ourepisode with Michelle, which is one
(09:04):
of your best friends that alsoworks with you in the shop, I want
to remind everyone of theboudoir studio, One Soul, that we've
been working with and talkingwith a lot.
We both had such an amazingtime getting to know them in and
out of the studio.
And just again, to remind you,we want you to experience that, too.
And so we have a link in ourbio where you guys can click and
(09:26):
have a free consultation withthem and get a special rate for your
own session.
And you will love them.
Just go into the studio.
It's beautiful.
It's so welcoming.
They're welcoming.
And you'll fall in love, too,and have a great time.
Yeah.
And actually, would this be agood time to share?
Like, hey, come on out andvisit us for wine and such.
(09:46):
We are.
We have a wine night onThursday, Friday the 27th.
And we would love anyone.
Wait, you said Thursday.
Friday is Friday, right?
Friday.
What did I say?
Okay, it was Friday the 27th.
Oh, yeah.
You said Thursday, Friday the 27th.
And I was like, wait, to beclear, Friday the 27th, we're going
(10:09):
to be at the One Soul BoudoirStudio having a wine and cheese night
and just letting people, like,get to see the studio and kind of,
like, know what it's about.
And it's not like you have to.
Oh, I'm going.
I have to.
Oh, yeah.
There's no pressure.
There's going to be not a sale.
This is hanging out like alittle beautiful place with awesome
people.
Yeah.
(10:30):
And you guys should definitelytry to make it.
If you can wait.
What did you say, Sam?
I accidentally.
I don't remember what I said.
I just talk.
You guys, we're a mess.
We should probably let you getsome shell.
Yeah.
So enjoy.
(10:57):
So we have with us today oneof the.
My favorite people.
Her name is Michelle.
She actually works with me inthe shop here.
This is Melissa.
But I think you guys know ourvoices by now, right?
Obviously.
So, anyway, she works with mein the shop.
She keeps me, as you guys haveprobably already know, I'm super
(11:17):
add.
She keeps me straight.
She has been in her past.
She has had many careers.
She has been a mom, band mom extraordinaire.
She has been.
She worked at a dance school.
She worked in a bank.
She does finance.
She has so many capabilities.
But that's not even why we're here.
You do have credentials.
(11:38):
She does, actually.
I can even pump gas.
I worked at a gas station.
Is that still a thing?
Oh, it is.
We went to a gas station andsomeone came out and pumped our gas.
In New Jersey?
No, but.
But no, it was cool.
In New Jersey they don't letyou pump your own gas.
Oh, yeah.
Still, that's the only stateleft, Right?
Well, that's nice.
(11:59):
Does Washington.
I don't know.
There might be.
When I was young, I want tosay Washington was still doing that,
but.
I don't know Jersey for sure.
That's cool.
They get offended.
It's funny.
We met one of the handyQuilter educators that came to the
shop and helped us with ourexpo this last time, Michelle.
She's.
Lee is from New Jersey, andshe was joking and being like, how
(12:22):
would I know?
I'm from New Jersey.
I don't even know how to pump gas.
Oh, my God.
And no one would know if theydidn't know.
Yeah.
How would you know?
So funny.
You just sit there in the carwaiting for somebody to show up.
So funny.
She said she does that sometimes.
An accident in the beginningbecause she's now she travels as
an educator.
And she said that, like,sometimes she gets new places and
(12:44):
she'd forget, wait.
And now she also said shewould pull in, she would get out
of her car and look on whichside the gas tank was on and then
get back in her car.
Simon just taught me.
No, that's what Lee just learned.
Simon just taught me that.
Your car tells you what sideit's on.
Yeah.
So she was telling us thisreally funny story and hoping we
wouldn't know, but we werelike, yeah.
(13:05):
She's like, you knew that.
I didn't.
It's Fine.
I didn't.
Okay.
She is fine.
Yes.
She's so funny, though.
She.
Okay.
Yeah.
See, if you don't know, youdon't know.
Yeah, but if I would haveheard someone say how, like, how
would I know how to pump gas?
I'm from Jersey.
I would have been like, arethey rich or something, Like, I wouldn't
have known that.
You don't write gas if you don't.
(13:26):
Know, you don't know.
That is the common theme ofthis episode, I guess.
Oh, yeah.
It's gonna go right in.
It is.
I think so.
Because Michelle's gonna talkto us about not knowing some things
and then finding them out.
As a parent.
As a parent, you don't knowthings until you know things.
Because there is no handbookthat says this is how you parent
and this is the right way andhow you're going to survive.
(13:48):
It's every kid's different andhow you handle each kid.
Even if you have five kids,you have to parent them differently,
and they're going to throwsomething new at you that you haven't
experienced yet.
Right.
Michelle has a story that wethought would be interesting to kind
of ask questions and pick herbrains on how she was able to parent
that and that situation.
Because we do have a friend.
(14:10):
Yeah, no, you're fine.
You're fine.
You're going about it perfectly.
I was just.
I was just going to say aboutwhat you were about to say.
We actually had in a past episode.
Do you guys remember talkingto Yellow in our very first season?
And she was talking aboutcoming out in this world, and she
came out to her parents andthey had a really difficult time
with it.
And she just had a different.
(14:31):
She had a totally differentperspective, I think, than a lot
of people who had to come outin the past to their parents.
And she was just like, youknow, they're.
They love you, but they alsohad built in their mind, like, a
life that they thought youwere going to live.
And so they just have to,like, kind of get used to the new.
New.
Right.
Absolutely.
That's the perfect way thatyou're explaining it.
(14:53):
It was, I think, her.
I think if I remembercorrectly, her exact words were,
they have to go through amorning of the life that they expected
and thought you were going to have.
And, you know, you have togive them time.
And I thought.
We thought that that wasinteresting because you do hear like,
oh, I came out and my parentsweren't okay with it, and, you know,
(15:14):
they kicked me out or whatever.
And it's like really dramatic.
And that, unfortunately, isthe story that a lot of people coming
out do have to go through.
But it was eye opening to hear.
You know, maybe that was mystory and had to go through something
along those lines.
But at the same time, I'm ableto recognize that they are struggling,
(15:35):
too.
Right.
So Michelle actually is goingto share her story with us.
Hi.
Skirts up, squad.
We have someone out there.
Okay.
I am gonna say.
I think I'm like, 90.999.
Sure.
Michelle's our biggest fan.
Yes.
(15:56):
You, man.
I do, yes.
What's in the favorite?
I would.
Should we mention it?
But Melissa.
Well, no.
Yes.
Yes.
It wasn't me that brought hername up today.
It was me.
I'm sorry.
But I love the.
The whole idea of the babytherapists and that people who may
(16:19):
not have a lot of moneybecause it.
It takes money and.
And you.
It's.
It takes more than money, butit takes money to get therapy and
that there is therapy outthere, hopefully for everybody.
And not every therapist worksbecause we went through that with
Emily in high school, that shehad this older lady, and.
And it just.
There was just no way thislady was going to be at all.
(16:41):
I'm so glad that you said that.
Yeah, me too.
Because you're not the onlyone that has said that episode because
it pinpointed how even if it'sa baby therapist, you can get help.
And so I kind of forgetsometimes that, like, that was a
really helpful episode.
It was, too.
So.
So, yeah.
Okay.
(17:01):
Wow.
So Emily was in therapy too,in high school.
Have you ever actually, justout of curiosity.
No, I am not.
Okay.
What was.
Can I ask what that was for?
It was actually something shesaid at school, and that triggered
then the.
The counselor.
And so it was.
And it was funny because we.
We got forced into the therapybecause I didn't know.
(17:24):
But then I.
I definitely advocated againstthe lady she didn't like because
that wasn't going to work.
It wasn't going to be the thing.
And we got her somebody thatshe did like.
That she did like, but she wascutting and so hard.
Yeah, for sure.
All my friends.
That.
That was my friend group.
Yeah.
Once the school finds out, youkind of don't have an option.
(17:44):
Right.
Yeah.
But then she almost got introuble because of all the therapy
that was happening.
Then we were like, in thiswindow of you've missed too much
school.
Even though they forced thetherapy, it was like this whole thing.
Yeah.
No.
Yeah.
So it's like she couldn't missany more.
School.
It was like, it became this whole.
(18:05):
Oh, that's an issue to me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because, like, they want herto be her most healthy self.
So they pretend.
Right.
They try to advocate orpretend they're advocating for her,
but then as soon as she's,like, taking the steps to be healthy.
Yeah.
They're like, oh, you'remissing school.
And that's probably.
What about the parent.
(18:25):
Because.
Yeah, because you've got.
The parent has to make sureyou go to school.
You get in trouble, and thenyou get in trouble, so.
Oh, you're right.
You get, like, 12 days, andthen it's like, if they miss anymore,
then you get reported, and then.
Yeah, I thought you weresaying you get 12 days of prison.
12 absences that are unexcited.
(18:46):
Used, I believe.
Gotcha.
But these were excused.
Like, they.
We had.
They.
We had the.
All the stuff, but still, sheneeded to also.
That's frustrating.
Yeah.
That was her freshman year,and then we moved to Georgia.
Baby.
Yes, you.
Yeah.
Okay, so tell us a little bitabout yourself.
If you just kind of a littlehistory and.
Okay.
We were from Ohio, and we werein Columbus, Ohio, and she was at.
(19:11):
She was actually, when shecame out, she was in eighth grade,
but she was in the high schoolband, so we were on a high school
band trip.
Okay.
Because you could do that in Ohio.
You could.
You could do the high schoolclasses early, which I don't think
you can do that here.
What do you mean?
Like, she could.
She already was taking algebraand Spanish and band in high school,
(19:33):
even though.
Because they were connected,the schools are kind of across the
street.
Oh, got you.
So she could take.
She had some classes goinginto high school before she even
got into.
Kind of like kids taking APclasses and going, like, college.
College.
Yeah.
But she did it in junior and high.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She's so smart, too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She's a smart girl.
(19:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So.
So.
And I found out on a band trip.
We were in New York City onthis band trip, and I get a text.
Mom, I'm gay.
And I'm at the front of thebus, and she's in the back of the
bus.
Right.
And so we wait.
Did a friend, like, dare herto say it or.
Well, that's what I.
So I peek up, and I'm like,does somebody have her phone?
(20:15):
Like, are they.
Because she's in eighth gradewith these high schoolers.
So I was like, did they takeher phone?
Are they teasing her?
Because I did.
I had no clue.
Oh, was she at all?
Bullied.
At all.
And you thought that was whereyou went to, or you just kind of.
I just was not expecting that.
Right.
So I was like, well, maybethey've got her phone and they're
just teasing her and she's thebaby of the.
(20:36):
Okay.
On the.
There were other 8th gradersthat she wasn't the only one.
But not very many.
But still, you still think,well, these are high schoolers, so
maybe I should look.
And no, there was totally calmback there, like they were all sleeping
or whatever.
And I'm like, oh.
So I'm like, okay, okay.
They trusted you.
Yeah, totally.
(20:56):
Right.
And it could, though, as.
I don't know.
I guess I should ask in aminute, like, maybe what your relationship
was like together if it waslike really close and really, really
open.
But in my mind, I could seethat being.
She can't overreact right now.
We're on a bus.
Right.
We're on a bus.
This public.
(21:17):
She can't freak out on me.
But I think it also.
Because I was the opposite.
Where we were, I was very LGBT friendly.
High school.
Yeah.
The high school, the city.
And you've.
So I think it also.
This trip and being aroundthese high schoolers, who several
(21:38):
of them were also in thecommunity, I think it just gave her
the courage too.
Okay.
Or maybe the knowledge or whatever.
It helped her to.
Yeah.
Say something.
Wow.
Because at first I've.
Your.
Your first reaction is like,well, you're only in eighth grade.
Like, you're still a baby.
Do you know what you want?
Yeah, because, you know.
(21:59):
But I know that people knowway early.
Yeah.
I mean, you know, people.
Kids in 8th grade are dating straightly.
Yeah.
Right.
And.
Yeah.
See, I didn't think of thatthat way.
I don't think of them.
It's so interesting becauseyou're right.
Like now I came.
I don't know.
Were you guys pretty.
I was pretty sheltered.
I wasn't even allowed to,like, even think about dating until
I was six.
Boyfriends in eighth grade.
(22:19):
We'd go to the mall and, youknow, mom would be in one side of
the mall and we get to holdhands and go perusing.
Well, she was so busy with herband and dancing and.
Well, no way.
She wasn't dancing anymore.
But it just seemed like shewas so busy.
There wasn't.
There were the school dances,but then you've kind of.
If you were a chaperone, theywere on a separate sides of the room
(22:41):
sometimes.
So I just wasn't even thinkingof the dating scene.
She's a Baby.
But to answer your question,Sam, I was like, I was a stay at
home mom.
Although I worked, like, Iworked at her preschool.
When she went to preschool, Iworked at her preschool.
And when she went toelementary, I worked at her elementary.
(23:02):
That was my mom's dream.
She wanted to work in myschool, that she could be still with
me.
Yeah.
So I totally like that.
And then.
And then I was at her dancestudio, so.
So I was totally, like,available to drive her around, encourage
all of her things.
And.
And then in middle school, youkind of have to step back.
So I worked at the Light.
I just volunteered at thelibrary one day a week.
(23:23):
And that's when I then got thebank job.
Was when she was in.
Actually was in high school.
But middle school kind ofstarts to wean you from your kids
a little bit.
The parent, the teachers don'twant the help that the.
That the elementary schoolteachers did.
Yeah.
They're kind of like, I got this.
Yeah.
Was the elementary school,like, was she at an age in elementary
(23:48):
school where she started tolike, mom, you're too close to me,
like, go to your classroom or whatever?
She actually.
I won, it's called a gemaward, which was for volunteering
for the school.
I got.
I got nominated by two people,and one of them was Emily, which
is flooring, because you don'tknow until after.
(24:08):
How old was she?
Fourth or fifth grade.
That's so right.
So she had to write up a page.
She didn't even do herhomework, and she had to write up
a paper as to why I deservedit and all this stuff.
So, yeah, that was.
But your heart just exploded.
Yeah.
So she has always appreciatedall the work you put in.
(24:28):
It's never been like, did yougo through this stage of, like, teen
stage of I hate mom, I'm doingeverything wrong?
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, absolutely.
High school was rough.
Oh, my God.
High school was so roughbecause I would, like, the demands
and the.
She could come home and she'dbe like, slam the door.
Go up to a room and never talkto you.
(24:49):
Or come and sit on the couchand talk to you.
You just never knew what youwere getting, what was going to walk
through that door.
And you couldn't ask.
That's true.
If my parents had tried to belike, what are we getting today?
I would have been like, yeah,now it's a door.
Yeah, exactly.
And if the door slams, you'relike, well, it must have been a bad
day.
But you obviously, you don'twant to talk about it.
(25:10):
Yeah.
So you Kind of have thatwhole, oh, boy.
So, yeah, so I'd say I.
And then, you know, back tothe, you know, I was just like, okay,
cool.
You know, that's.
But you.
I was.
It made me sad as far as, likea parent, because I thought, oh,
your life just got harder.
I felt like, wow, because it's hard.
Life's hard enough.
Right?
(25:31):
You're right.
And then if you put thiselement that's not always accepted
and not always, you just feltlike it just made.
Life harder and actuallyusually not accepted.
Especially, I was gonna saywhen I was young, but maybe, you
know, Emily's still.
What?
She's 24.
6.
24.
Oh, yeah, she's 24.
No, she's.
(25:52):
She's 27.
She's 27.
Michelle's like, I was gonnabe younger for a second.
I was.
I was enjoying it.
Oh, I see that selfishness.
Yes, please.
No, she's just 18.
What are you talking about?
She's a baby.
Because I was thinking.
(26:12):
I mean, when I was young, itwas not accepted.
We had Matthew.
Oh, I'm so embarrassed that Iforgot his last name because it should
never have been forgotten, butobviously tortured and beaten for
his identity in the 90s.
And I remember that happening.
And like, so I guess she'smore in the 2000s, but still it's.
(26:35):
It's not accepted.
But any.
Anytime, any of her friendswho have super religious parents,
they can get kicked out.
They can get.
And it's just sad because you're.
You're trying to be who youare, and these are the people who
you love and want to, youknow, who are your family.
Yeah.
And now all of a sudden, youmean nothing to them.
(26:56):
I don't.
I don't understand that.
I could have never.
I don't either, understand.
Done that to her.
Right.
You know, so.
And that makes life evenharder if you don't have your family
to back and everything.
So.
So you're sad about thestruggles that you already see.
Yeah.
How long did it take untilyou're able to, like, verbally address
(27:18):
it with her?
Because you're trapped on aschool bus.
Oh, yeah.
So did you text her right away?
Like, I wanted to know that too?
Yeah, I said.
I said, oh, cool.
Cause, you know.
Yeah.
I always.
I always say every day she's cool.
She says cool beans.
I got her a sticker that sayscool beans.
Yeah.
How that is.
So, yeah, that's my.
Yeah.
And.
(27:38):
And then for the rest of thetrip, she actually sat with me on
the bus because I didn't comeback as negative.
And.
And she's.
And I think she'd also texted,will you tell dad?
And I said, yeah, I'll tell Dad.
Like, you know, no big deal.
How dad now, surely.
Yes.
Yeah.
(27:58):
He traveled a lot, so, yes,they're close.
And he adores the Bajeebi's advert.
I've actually seen him with her.
Yeah.
Yeah, he does pretty great.
But he did travel all thetime, so I wouldn't say on the same
level because I was the one inthe mud doing all this stuff.
And he was.
He spent at least two weeksevery month in Portland, Oregon.
(28:21):
We would even tease, like, ona holiday, we'd say, oh, we.
Because, like, he had a second family.
And we'd say, oh, we won.
We wouldn't.
Oh, you know, but it was just weird.
So.
Yeah.
And he's from Indiana, so it'svery conservative Indiana in general.
Not all Indiana people are.
But it was a thing, like, Ihad to tell him.
(28:42):
And then he, you know, ofcourse, she was in eighth grade,
like I said.
And then he's like, well, whatdoes she know?
You know, that kind of stuff.
I'm like, well, you're gonnaaccept it and you're gonna, you know.
Oh, you just said, hey, thisis how it is.
You're not gonna approach her.
And.
Yeah, and I was ready for thatwith all the family, like, even the
grandparents.
And it was immediatelyshocking how.
(29:03):
Yeah.
How.
Well, they accepted.
Yeah.
Well, they accepted her.
Really?
Yeah.
Because I think.
I don't know if they knew orif you just.
Once you get.
Sometimes with.
Not with all families, butsometimes when you get that, you
just are like, you know, thisis my granddaughter.
I have loved her this whole time.
I'm just gonna.
(29:23):
Yeah.
Still love her.
And.
And they've been very accepting.
Oh, that's so beautiful.
Yeah.
And they're pretty conservative.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They're from Indiana.
If my dad, who's from Ohio.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just because you think oldschool, you know, he's 20 years older
than me, and you just think,you know, his life.
Hopefully life is gettingbetter and easier and it's getting
(29:45):
more accepted, but back in way.
Right.
It wasn't right.
So what made you feel like,this is okay?
It's fine.
Like, what made you not bat an eye?
Like, if you grew up in aconservative home, like, what would
have made.
Oh, I didn't.
You did not.
Oh, no, I'm sorry.
Oh, I thought you were sayingyour dad was conservative.
(30:06):
Well, you know, he's, you know.
No, Ohio's Not Ohio's much.
Yeah.
Like I say in Columbus, it was.
It was just there.
So I had already.
I had friends that were.
Her preschool she went to,they had a lesbian.
It was a Montessori school.
And there was lesbian couplethat were doing the preschool, the
(30:26):
three to.
Or three to six age group.
So I was very much around it more.
And so, yeah, I guess I had.
I guess I had the precursor inlife to be like, oh, okay, and just
continue on.
Yeah, I.
I was.
My best friend when I was,like, youngest.
Like, my first friend, her.
(30:47):
She had two moms.
And I remember not eventhinking anything of it.
Like, I was like, oh, cool.
Like, this is awesome.
And, like, never thinkinganything of it.
But then one of my parents isjust, you know, not a great human.
And so I would hear, like, allthis negativity about it.
And as a kid, you get, like,really confused.
(31:09):
And I just remember thinking,like, why is it weird?
Like, there's still two parents.
You're like, I don't know.
I think I found it more weirdwhen a, you know, a friend was like,
oh, my parents got divorced,so I'm just with my dad or something.
Then I'd be like, whoa, that's weird.
But, like, to hear two moms orI have two dads or something, I was
like, oh, two parents.
(31:29):
That makes sense.
Yeah.
So I didn't want to put, like,a negative slant on the family.
So that's not what I'm tryingto do with this question.
But I do wonder, becausegrowing up in the place and the.
Where I grew up, it was verymuch this idea of love the sinner,
(31:50):
hate the sin.
And it's like, that is not acceptance.
That's not acceptance.
Right.
So I'm wondering if there wasany of this.
So, like, in the.
With the family and Emily andthe grandparents, how would you say
it was, like, true?
Would you say it was true,true, true, deep acceptance?
Or was it more like, I acceptyou and I love you, I do hope that
you.
(32:11):
I hope to come to your senses.
You know what I mean?
Right.
I would say I had a friend,actually, that I walked with every
day in the mornings.
And she.
She was.
She tried to say, you know,emily needs to see our youth minister.
And I'm like, no, that's not.
That's not gonna happen.
And she's not gonna see heryouth minister.
(32:32):
But the family, they probablywere hesitant, and they probably
maybe hoped that it would be.
She would be wrong.
Right.
But they never ever, like,really verbalized it or made a thing
about it.
That's good.
At least they let her know.
Yeah.
And they could have known I'mpretty strong.
It's even in Indiana.
(32:53):
They probably.
I think they were like, wow,what are we getting?
Okay, so wait.
What you guys don't know isMichelle Is what, 4 foot 11?
Yeah.
410.
410.
Okay.
Sorry.
No, hey, give it to me.
Take the lynch.
And she is tough.
Yeah.
Like, she.
She'll.
You stand up.
Yeah.
For people.
Like, I feel like you protectme a lot of the times.
(33:16):
Oh, yeah.
Well, right.
Yeah.
If it's wrong, it's wrong.
I like that.
You will not.
You will not step on my friend.
She's so accepting of everything.
She gives her an extra inchand she's like, yeah, you give her
an.
Extra year on her life.
Yeah.
You stand up for me.
Yeah, yeah, I do do that.
(33:38):
You're not taking our electric.
That's right.
We had that happen.
She does.
She tells people what's up.
And so like, I'm putting thatin my phone.
Ask Michelle to help me out.
For sure.
Yeah, for sure.
And so like.
Yeah, there probably couldhave been an element of that.
But it's nice to know that they.
Regardless, I guess.
(33:58):
Yeah.
They never made her feel,like, different or that, you know,
that she wasn't accepted,which was good.
Very good.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because a lot of people don'tget that.
Too many people don't.
That's.
It's just sad.
So you mentioned that therewas the incident where the school
found out about cutting andthen mandated therapy.
(34:20):
Is this before this text or after?
Oh, it would have been afterbecause it was in high school.
So I think she had a.
A.
I don't know what caused it.
And I.
And I don't know, just toclarify, because this is a little
confusing for me.
8th grade in the schools inGeorgia, in the south is high school.
(34:41):
But from hearing the ages thatyou're talking about high school,
middle school, it sounds likethe grades are a little different.
Well, no, eighth grade isjunior high, but you can take high
school classes.
Oh, yeah.
I don't think we're broken uplike that.
Right.
No, I.
I didn't get that impression.
Wait, No, I am wrong.
I'm wrong.
You're right.
Yeah.
You're right.
(35:01):
Okay.
Yeah, I know.
She always does that to me too.
And I'm like, damn it.
Damn it.
I was confused.
You know, Been out of school along time.
Okay, sorry.
Yeah.
Yes.
So in eighth grade is when shetexts you, and then high school is.
(35:22):
When the incidents when shestarted cutting, or at least when
they found out about the cutting.
Right.
And you had not known.
No, I didn't know.
I didn't have a clue.
And then the.
The old therapist I wastalking about, she was like, you
need to remove all the knivesin the house.
And I was like, well, thatseems extreme, because.
I don't know.
It just.
(35:42):
It sounded wrong the way shesaid it.
Yeah.
Like.
And I just.
I don't know.
I just.
Yeah, you had feelingsalready, too.
Like, Emily doesn't like her.
That also seems a little extra.
So how did you find somebodythat was.
Same therapy, same, like, practice.
Okay.
Yeah.
Oh, then that's very.
Yeah.
And I just asked for a new one.
(36:02):
I said, we need to try a new one.
And so we did.
I'm so proud of you.
Yeah.
Because it's really hard toadvocate for yourself.
And as a teen, your parents,for sure need to be advocating for
you.
Yeah.
Not.
But not always.
Do they?
Or in the right way.
Yeah, I think that.
I know.
Right way.
Yes.
Yeah.
That.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
(36:22):
Yes.
I probably should take that back.
I do think most parents aretrying to try everything that they
can because they love their children.
Just sometimes it's not alwayswhat they need.
The right way.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So the cutting is in high school.
This is after she's come out.
Did you ever learn one?
Because I was around that,like, all my friends literally were.
(36:45):
And actually they all got suspended.
I did not.
I was not a part of that, butthey actually ended up all getting
suspended for it because theywere doing that and then taking,
like, ibuprofen or somethingalso at school for it.
And I don't understand the suspense.
I feel like they.
They all got suspended, andthen because all their parents worked,
(37:06):
my mom ended up having towatch all of them.
And they had to.
They had all of their schoolwork at home, and.
And then my mom gave all ofthem, like, strict chores.
Like, hey, have you everchanged a shower curtain before?
And they're like, no.
She goes, good.
I have three showers.
Like, how did your mom get so lucky?
(37:26):
She got her own little work.
Yeah.
My friend, one of my friendsis still, like, traumatized.
She goes, like, anytime shestill, like, sees my mom, she goes,
I'm not touching your shower.
She goes, that's fine.
That's fine.
But, yeah, but I saw how,like, their moms felt and how it
(37:46):
was, like, in their houseafter all that, and you could tell
that they.
That's very alarming for them.
And they all reacted differently.
And how they handled it.
One of them did removebathroom doors.
Bedroom doors.
Whoa.
All privacy.
It was a privilege and was all removed.
So extreme.
Like, how did that feel for you?
(38:08):
And did you ever get kind ofanswers of what brought that on?
Oh, yeah.
And did you know other parentsthat were dealing with this?
Oh, not really other children,but it seemed like it was.
And this probably soundsreally weird, but it seemed really
in at the time, too.
But I don't know other parentsthat were, like, no other parents
were talking about.
(38:29):
No, you're not wrong, becauseshe's only, what, three years younger
than me?
So, yeah, that's about.
Yeah, but I don't.
I don't think it had to dowith being a lesbian as much as she
did have a breakup.
So maybe that.
And I.
I don't know, you know, Iguess I don't really know why.
Why she started cutting, youknow, And I didn't understand it
(38:53):
because, like, I'll eatchocolate all day long, but yet I
don't understand.
Which is not helping your body.
Right.
But yet the whole cutting just really.
Was hard to know.
Yeah, I know what you mean.
Yeah.
You're like, yeah, I'm hurtingmyself in other ways.
Right.
By being unhealthy.
But I still don't understand why.
(39:14):
So I actually have someinsight on that because I have.
Have.
I've been there.
So I'll just share this if youdon't mind, but I had a miscarriage,
and it was really traumatic.
And I will probably share thestory at some point.
That being said, when Mother'sDay rolled around the next year,
and at the time my husband wastraveling and I was alone, I was
(39:39):
deeply, deeply hurting, and I.
I cut myself.
And I.
I don't know how to explain itother than to say I just wanted to
lose the blood that I shouldhave lost during childbirth.
And so, like, sometimes youjust think you have to punish yourself.
Do you think it was that orthat you're hurting so bad that might
(40:00):
as well make something hurt worse?
Nope.
No, no, it was just.
I just.
I just want to bleed.
I just want to hurt all the way.
I don't know how to explain it.
I really don't.
And I wish I could, becausethen maybe more people could understand
and have empathy for those whoare doing it, because it's not like
(40:21):
you're just wanting to.
I don't know.
It's.
It's a true therapy.
It's a true release of pain.
It's a true, like,therapeutic, weird thing.
And I'm not Endorsing it byany means because it is very unhealthy.
But it's a way to.
It's a way of release.
Kind of like yawning whenyou're tired, but very extreme.
(40:44):
But anyway, I didn't mean totake it away from Emily, but I did
think that it was somethingkind of important.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's relevant.
Yeah.
And I don't think her beinggay was it.
She seemed, like, gay and proud.
Like, she was telling everybody.
Oh, yeah.
And she.
Yeah, she was.
She was.
Just seemed so proud.
And it wasn't like, we can'tgo tell Grandma or we can't go tell
(41:07):
this person.
And even when we were movingto Georgia, which was after her freshman
year because my husband gottransferred, we were like, now, this
is the South.
You're going to this school.
You're brand new at this school.
Yeah, we were.
And we're like, just.
Just get a feel for it.
And she's like, nope.
Oh, no.
(41:28):
You know, like, you'll acceptme or you won't.
And we're just like, oh.
You know.
Because you don't want her toget hurt.
Right?
You know?
But, yeah, and she was fine.
And it's like one of those,like, oh, you're gonna stick to your
guns.
Okay, I gotta get my punchinggloves on.
Be the mama bear.
Exactly.
Come.
I'm ready.
I'll get ready.
(41:49):
Just like, she did a reportabout Jimmy Carter here.
It wasn't a flattering onebecause he was better after than
during or whatever.
Whatever you think.
But we're just like, know your audience.
Like, what are you doing?
Out of all the presidents youwant to dish on do, why him?
He's from here.
(42:09):
You know, so, you know, youtry, but they don't care.
They don't listen.
Oh, that is so funny.
So she's always been againstthe grain, and I don't care.
Yeah, exactly.
Oh, I love that.
Yeah.
So.
And we're close now to thisday, so very close.
Yeah.
It's really cute to watch you guys.
Yeah, I actually just.
Okay, so yesterday we were.
I had a friend here at theshop, and we're recording at the
(42:31):
shop, just so everybody knows.
But today she was flippingthrough our olive.
Yes.
She was flipping through allof the designs that we can quilt
onto a quilt.
And she saw these crazy bananas.
She's like, that's hilarious.
Has anybody ever used that?
And I said, yes, as a matterof fact, Emily moved to la, and she
(42:52):
called her mom and said, Ihave a quilting emergency.
And Michelle said, okay.
What?
But also, there's no suchthing as a quilting emergency.
And she said, I bought sheetswith bananas on them and I need a
quilt with bananas.
Oh, she did?
Yeah.
But, yeah, it's really cute tolike, you guys are very close.
Yeah.
And I love.
(43:13):
Which is awesome.
Yeah.
How you did say that there wasthe teen transition of mom can't
do anything.
Right.
How did you transition out ofthat stage?
College.
Just distance.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She went to Middle Tennessee State.
Okay.
For sound and.
Yeah.
So college definitely helpsput that distance.
(43:36):
I've heard people say thingslike, oh, yeah, it gets you ready
that.
It gets you ready to.
For them to leave.
If you were still like this,you'd be like, you can't go anywhere.
I was already bad enoughbecause I.
She wanted to go toCalifornia, which is ironic because
now she is there.
Yeah.
And I gave her a little squareof where she could go.
(43:59):
Just because.
I mean, like, it's like, no,if you have problems in California,
that's a flight.
That's a.
That's two days drive.
Yeah.
I said, if you have problemsin Tennessee, that's.
I can get there.
Yeah.
You know.
Yeah.
You don't have to go to schoolin Georgia.
But my mom was like, evenSouth Carolina.
One of us being in SouthCarolina, when her here, she was
like, no.
(44:21):
Yeah.
Right.
So, yeah, I gave her a little.
Oh, that's awesome.
And now she's in California,which she's dying to do.
Ever, ever offer all that'sgoing to.
Feel good because that was herdream goal.
Yeah.
So in a way, can we share.
What she had credits on?
Because it's already out.
Didn't she have credits onlike, the Pokemon?
Oh, poke.
(44:41):
Yeah, she used to work on Pokemon.
Yeah.
Dubbing.
Helping dub on Pokemon.
Oh, nice.
She's very smart and fancy out there.
I was wondering, did it happen?
Did it change anything foryou, like your world views, having
a daughter come out or a child?
I guess not.
Because like I say, with herpreschool, the Montessori preschool,
(45:04):
I had so many friends, Friend.
Friends that were in thatcommunity that I guess it's just
when you know people and youare friends with people, you attract
the same.
Yeah.
I'm so glad you said thatbecause I think one of the biggest
things that can happen in ourcommunities is that not enough diversity.
(45:27):
And when you pull in more anddifferent types of people, you're
so much less likely to justsay, oh, I don't like that kind of
person, because that kind ofperson is right next to you and they're
your friend.
Right.
And so, like, the more you canget a group of people that don't
think like you, the more youcan have empathy for them.
And I just think that is areally important thing to help the
(45:49):
world keep going around.
Yeah.
And it makes me think that,well, I don't have children, but
if I ever did, I think, yeah,I want to try to get to a very diverse,
like, place and raise themwhere they can meet a lot of different
kinds of people and just havethat acceptance.
Because, like you said, thatprimed you, it sounds like.
(46:09):
Yeah, it really did.
Did you see the ugly of theworld that you were expecting at
first?
Oh, that's a good question.
Because that is a good question.
Right?
Because.
Yeah, that was a big worry.
Um, probably not just because.
Because of how out and proudshe was.
(46:30):
I've seen it a little, andI've definitely seen it.
Seen it through her friendswho all of a sudden are homeless
or.
Oh, boy.
And I know like one.
One boy was going through itand then he got kicked out and then
he.
He went back home and he saidhe was cured.
Aww.
Which wasn't true, but yetthat he had a home then.
(46:53):
Oh, you know, he.
He.
Yeah, that is sad.
And then maybe once he gotolder, you know, he.
Hopefully he came back out and.
Or could come back out, but.
Because that was one of the.
That was like a banned person.
So I don't.
I don't know what's happened,but yeah, so I've.
I've seen it a little.
And she said, she says, youknow, when her and her roommate,
(47:17):
they.
She's lesbian too, but she wasn't.
She didn't know.
I should say.
In college, when they would beout together, people would look at
them like they were unicornsand go, oh, look at the lesbian couple.
You know?
You know, so you can get that, like.
And so she goes.
Sometimes you feel like anexhibited at a zoo because, you know,
(47:41):
actually I'm.
That's another thing.
I was kind of like hesitant toask you to come talk because I do
feel like sometimes when you.
We want to have conversationsabout all kinds of things, but I
never want.
Yeah.
But I never want anyone tofeel like, oh, I'm suddenly.
I'm not this.
They're looking at me like I'ma spokesperson for all of this.
Yeah.
And that's not at all.
(48:01):
This is one experience, oneside of the story.
Like.
Yeah, it's not.
And we know it can go in manydifferent ways.
And so I'm glad that you Saidthat because, like, it's really easy
to kind of make somebody an exhibit.
Yeah.
And then act like.
No, I would.
I would love to hear.
There's someone in my in onmind that would be really interesting
(48:22):
to hear their specific side ofwhat it was like to come out because
it's an even further backgeneration and it was not easy.
So different.
Yeah.
Like in the 80s, you didn'ttalk about it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, and the 90s was.
And you call people namesabout it.
But it was very dangerous.
(48:42):
Yeah.
I mean, they.
You weren't even allowed toget married until I was already out
of high school, if I remember correctly.
Wait, what?
Like, you weren't even.
Oh, yeah.
Able to get married until Iwas already graduated from high school.
So it's like.
Oh, gay couples.
Yeah.
Yeah, sorry.
Okay.
And not even in every state.
So it.
It really.
I don't know if it.
(49:04):
It's taken a long time for itto be even something thought of or.
Accepted as much as it is.
Yeah.
But we still have a long wayto go.
But it's just making me thinkof, like.
Oh, yeah.
There's like a hundreddifferent ways that this could have.
You could have felt.
You could have experienced.
She could have felt likethere's so many different possibilities
that, like, yours is probablyyour perspective and how it was for
(49:29):
you.
And your daughter is theperfect, like, ideal.
Yeah.
What you would hope and want.
Yeah.
If it were you.
For everybody.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So did she have any.
Well, no.
You said she was out and proud.
I wanted to say.
I thought that you had saidbefore that there was people who
(49:50):
rejected her and you had tokind of drop as friends along the
way.
Oh, sure.
I mean, like I say, my friendthat I walked with all the time thought
she could save her by sendingher to the youth minister.
It's just like.
It's not a choice.
Nobody makes the choice.
And I've had.
I do have friends who are moreradical about their lgbt where if
(50:11):
you aren't going to get itright, they're not going to talk
to you anymore.
I'm.
I'm a.
Less like that.
Like pronouns.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Pronouns are a good one.
Or just even acceptance.
Like, I.
I told her, no, my friend.
I said, no, I'm not sendingher to your youth minister.
But I didn't unfriend her.
Okay.
Because I, you know, I feellike people.
(50:35):
Sometimes you need it to be inyour family to even understand that
you could be accepting.
Yeah.
Sometimes you're.
You're not accepting becauseyou've never had to.
You've never had somebody you love.
Yeah.
Say, you know, say, hey, I'm.
I'm this way or whatever.
And I think, I think people,if you, once you experience it, hopefully,
(50:57):
I mean, obviously there arepeople that have their religious
beliefs that do not, no matterwhat they.
They feel like that's a sincomes first.
It's so sad.
Yeah.
People.
And, and love should alwayscome first, but.
Yeah, for sure.
But just now what I heard isthat, you know, no one's had to be
(51:18):
put in the situation where youhave to not have to, but you should.
You want to ex.
You know, accept your.
Your family because it's family.
But that was the first timethat you also encountered that too.
And you were just immediatelylike, oh, I got you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so.
But it wasn't.
That comes back to the wholething of diversity.
(51:39):
And she had surrounded herselfwith different types of people in
her.
Oh, that's like, that's right.
Okay.
Right.
So I think it's interestingwhen you're saying, let's not cut
them out of our lives.
And yes, there are times whenthe only healthy thing to do is to
cut someone out of their life.
So I am not saying last resort.
Yes.
You guys know that I'm not ablack and white person.
(52:01):
I know there's reasons andtimes you do some things, but if
you can, like, try to keepthese people in your life and show
them how love could be is what I.
That's the ideal.
Right.
We help them grow.
We hope.
Yeah.
I do think that's.
Yeah.
But it doesn't always workthat way.
I know.
Yeah, that makes sense.
(52:22):
It's interesting.
It's.
It's very.
Life is so weird.
And it's like, you wish youcould be like, yeah, these are the
rules.
But there are no rules becauseeveryone is so different.
Yeah.
And like, maybe, like we said,maybe you keep that walking partner
friend in your life and let mesee the love that you have for your
daughter.
But then maybe you might haveto the next person be like, oh, no,
(52:44):
you're toxic.
Yeah.
But then also, you know, theother perspective is her daughter.
So what if she knows that yourfriend that you're close friends
with spend, you know, everyday or whatever with.
Yeah, that's true.
Has disdain towards her forher choices.
What does that say to yourdaughter if you're like, just ignore
(53:08):
her.
It is what it is.
Yeah, we laughed about itkind, you know, because obviously
I wasn't going to send her tothe youth ministry.
And so we Kind of laughedabout it, like, to see if you would.
Have remained friends withyour friend or, you know, that close,
then maybe Emily would havefelt like, oh, you don't have my
back.
Like, would she have felt protected?
(53:29):
Right.
I think she was freakingrules, though.
Right.
Right.
Because Emily.
Maybe another child would have.
Right.
Maybe another child.
I think you're right, though.
Yeah.
Yes.
I guess what we are learningis that it didn't matter to her what.
Anyone said, but it could.
Another child, it could have,you know, shut them down and been
like, oh, mom doesn't have my back.
(53:50):
So.
But it was her best friend'smom, so I think she was just like,
oh, you know, oh, please.
She.
Do she.
Oh, Sandra.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, Sandra.
Oh, classic Sandra.
Is that right?
I don't know.
We just.
We just.
We used it a fake name.
I was like, wait a second, amI cutting this?
No, it's a fake name.
(54:12):
It's just classic Sandra.
Oh, my God.
I literally, like, startedlike, oh, shit, do I have to cut
this?
I got a, like, mental note.
No, it's a fake name.
I.
This, again, is the perfectexample of how it could and really
should go for anyone who isfaced with like, yeah, this is me,
(54:36):
and you're going to accept me.
And if you don't, then I don't.
I don't care.
Yeah, but like we said again,that's not even probably a fraction
of what most people experience.
Yeah.
And I do think and believethere's also that same person who's
just in a different place whocould say I'm.
(54:58):
I am who I am, accept me, andthen still get persecuted.
So there's so many differentperspectives that I would love to,
like, talk to.
Like, it would be challenging,but it would be interesting to also
talk to someone who is superconservative and, you know, did not
accept their child once thishappened to try and see if we can
(55:23):
figure out, like, what.
What is it?
Is it a childhood?
Is it really religion?
Like, what is it that makesthis so interesting?
So I do have a good friend andmaybe she'll talk about it at some
point, but I don't want to.
Yeah, but she.
When her daughter came out, Iremember her daughter crying and
(55:44):
begging her, like, hey, if youvote politic, like, in the political
thing for this person, I'mgoing to feel completely betrayed.
And I've never felt betrayedby you before.
And that was the thing thatkind of made her think, what am I
voting for?
And actually, I don't.
I wouldn't say I don't Knowwhere she is 100% these days?
(56:07):
Well, I know she's notconservative, so actually yes, I
do know.
But she was able to slowlykind of start looking at things and
saying, what am I voting for?
And it did change her perspective.
But she didn't.
Because she didn't.
But yeah, but there are peoplewho do abandon their children and
there's conservatives who don't.
(56:30):
So it's very interesting.
Yeah.
Sam said.
Yeah.
I look at you and I say.
That though, because I feellike another perspective is that
sometimes I do feel like whenan individual like that says, you
(56:51):
know, if you do this or don'tdo this, like I'm going to feel abandoned
and not respected by you.
Sometimes the way I see thatit comes off as bullying.
Like you will understand andsee my point or we're not, not going
to have a relationship.
And I have a hard time withthat kind of cut and dry fair, like.
(57:12):
Right.
So coming from like a 14 yearold who was just, and it was no ultimate,
you know, I mean, and.
You'Re, you don't have to likethis, you know, it could be that
way.
But there's an adult though,you know.
There'S, there's adults whoare like, if you don't vote this
way, I will not be talking toyou anymore, mom.
(57:34):
Because.
Right.
I will feel disrespected and Ifeel like that is a form, like if
you had such a goodrelationship but then just something
over a difference of a votewhich I, I, I hear you.
The votes are a big deal.
Like, I get that but thatsounds like bullying to me.
Like if you don't do this, Iwill not talk to you ever again.
(57:54):
And I, that's not what shesaid though.
Yeah, that does happen.
It does happen.
That's the only way I lookedat you.
I was like, well, the otherside is.
But yeah, not saying it, it's,you know, that person.
But, but it was interesting tolike have her be like mom and then
like, I don't understand, Idon't understand how you can vote
(58:16):
for somebody that wants tohurt me.
I think that that is reallybrave though of a teenager to be
able to have like they had,they had.
Such a good place.
This is how I see it.
It was big of the mom too tobe able to say, oh, I'll hear you
out, let me look, let me think.
And I think it took, it wasover a course of a few years.
(58:36):
Not wrong.
Right.
That is really impressive onboth sides to be able to say like,
have that mutual respect Of.
Okay, I will hear you out.
You're gonna hear me out.
And then being able to.
Yeah.
And I will say that I want tosay this person's dad did not change.
He has changed since, I wouldsay, just because of his own, you
(59:00):
know, but it.
She.
She.
She had them looking at theirlives and why they were voting the
way they were voting, and itwas just interesting.
And I'm not saying that allconservatives need to change to accept
their kids.
That's not at all what I'm saying.
But it's interesting.
It comes down to respect, butthere's a reason that everyone feels
and believes so strongly.
(59:21):
Highly do.
So I guess my curiosity comesinto picking everyone's brains on,
like, well, where did thatcome from?
Like, I'm a therapist or something.
Right.
What happened to you?
It's interesting.
It really is, because it'slike, we want to.
Like, if we could understandeach other's motives.
Right.
Yeah.
Then maybe we wouldn't have.
(59:42):
And again, I.
I feel like it just all comesdown to the same thing.
On this whole episode, I'mlike, I found the theme, like, diversity.
Like, if we can just keepsurrounding ourselves with different
types of people, we can startlearning motives and just understanding
a little bit about why peopledo what they do.
Yeah.
Just seeing a bigger picturethat instead of.
That's a narrow picture thatyou have.
(01:00:05):
Yeah.
The diversity helps you see bigger.
A bigger world.
Yeah.
And like you said, have mutualrespect for each other.
Yeah.
More food for thought, per usual.
So I'll be thinking, and I'msure we'll have more conversations
on.
On this, because I.
There are more things to becurious about.
There are.
(01:00:27):
So thank you for sharing that.
Thanks for having me.
Michelle, I know you've beenwaiting forever to be on.
I know.
She literally has been, like,from the first episode when no one
knew who we were, she wouldlisten to everything.
People know who we are.
I couldn't wait for theepisode to drop.
I couldn't wait for theepisode to drop.
Like, so cute.
(01:00:47):
Come into work.
Should be like, oh, my gosh, Ihave opinions.
Yes, I have opinions.
I do, too.
I do, too.
I'm so.
We're so lucky.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So thank you for joining us.
Thank you for sharing somedifficult and not so difficult.
It's not difficult.
She's proud of it.
Her daughter's proud of it.
(01:01:08):
This is not difficult.
Yeah.
But a.
A perspective.
Yes, we do appreciate it.
So.
All right, now we're being awkward.
Bye.
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And don't forget to rate and review.
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