Soul Surgery and Boundaries, Nikki Allen

In this engaging and lively episode, the hosts introduce Nikki Allen, a talented songwriter and author who shares her deeply personal journey through domestic violence and how she used music as a creative outlet during difficult times. Nikki discusses her song 'Loved You, Hate You,' originally released in 2006, which inspired her book addressing domestic violence.

The conversation delves into Nikki's upbringing, including the challenges of being the only Black family in an affluent neighborhood. She also warmly recalls her mother's unwavering support, from fighting for her to play the flute to inspiring her career in music. Nikki opens up about her relationships, both past and present, and shares the heartwarming story of how a one-night stand turned into a long-lasting relationship.

The episode touches on themes of self-love, resilience, and the importance of transparency with loved ones. Listeners get a sneak peek into Nikki's upcoming music project titled 'This Cathedral Is Mine,' focusing on self-love and empowerment. Amidst technical glitches and light-hearted banter, the episode wraps up on an inspiring note, highlighting Nikki's ongoing journey of growth and healing.

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
What's up?
Skirts up, squad.
Did you just take my wine?
I did.
It's Samantha and Melissa.
I'm going to actually tell youguys how it is right now.
It was so fun.
We couldn't even make it up.
I'm gonna do it.
I'm gonna wear it in public.
Then she looks at me and shegoes, that's what Jesus is for.

(00:23):
We are about normalizingthings that are.
Hard to talk about.
I was like deer in headlights.
Skirts out, but keep your pant.
So tell us about your travels.
Because it was three weeks.
Two weeks.
I know you traveled for twoweeks, but we didn't record for three.
So in my mind, it's three.

(00:44):
Yeah.
Except we had a cancellationthe week before, so we ended up doing,
I think, just an intro.
Didn't we?
Or did we not even?
We might have not, but anyways.
Yeah.
So traveling was for two weeks.
Simon and I went to DominicanRepublic, and we traveled to multiple
different states, cities.
And so.
Oh, that was.

(01:05):
Yeah, because I was justlooking at the calendar.
Yeah.
It said on the 29th, Sam isgone, out of the country.
And I think it's because youjust got back and you had to, like,
reset.
We didn't record.
And then you went again, andthen the next week you were gone
or just getting back.
So, like.
Like that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You're about to tell ussomething funny, though.

(01:26):
Dominican Republic.
Oh, God.
Did I just derail it?
No.
Dominican Republic.
Yes.
So we went there, and I'm sureyou guys saw like, how, like, ridiculous
that was.
So, like, we got intoDominican Republic.
We did what we always do.
We rented a car, and we gotpulled over twice within an hour

(01:46):
of having the car and drivingthrough Dominican Republic and has
never, ever, ever happened tous before getting pulled over in
another country.
And we were so confusedbecause we're like, what are we doing
wrong?
Like, we're following thespeeding, though.
Oh, I thought he said he was speeding.
They.
When we asked that time, whenwe asked why we got pulled over,
he shot the car driving behindus and showed us that and said you

(02:10):
were speeding.
And, like, so obviously thatwasn't us.
You did not say that part onthe video.
Did I not?
Yeah, well, I think because Iwas still trying to process, like,
what the hell has happened.
But I remember he shot the carbehind us and then showed us the
gun.
And so I didn't say anything.
But then later I was like,that's not even us.

(02:31):
For all I know, there's, like,an arrow, and you, like, arrow back
to Go see, like, the someone previous.
So I just.
I didn't say anything.
And then when I was talkingabout it, oop, I just cut this out.
And then when I was talkingabout it to someone else, they're
like, no, he shot someone.
That was life.
Yeah.
And so we were talking to alocal while we were there and, you

(02:53):
know, talking about it, andthey were just like, I'm so sorry.
I was like, sorry about what?
I mean, like, happens, like, whatever.
And he was like, no, it'sbecause you're white with the American
dollar.
And I was like, it's fine.
Like, as long as they don'tput us in jail, I don't care.
Honestly, it's fine.
Like, it's not a big deal.
So that was.
That was interesting.
And then so we spent.

(03:17):
We drove.
I think that happens a lot ina lot of countries.
Tourists get targeted, right?
Yeah.
And.
Yeah.
And they were saying also,like, when you travel to countries
like this, the local personwe're talking to is like, you also
need to know that everythingis negotiable because the, you know,
the.
The money is so different fromwhere you are to where we are that,

(03:38):
like, they're going to tellyou something.
Astron.
Like, oh, yeah.
Like, we got gouged.
I didn't know, like, this person.
I literally bought, like,three pieces of, like, crap jewelry
just because, like, I just.
I start to feel bad.
Yes.
And I want to support everyone.
They're all trying to, like,make money for their family.
And so then I, like, like, Iwant to buy something from everyone.

(03:58):
We got bamboozled out ofAmerican $400.
That's a lot of money.
That's like the.
Okay, yes, thousands for them,but because.
I don't, like, I don't knowthe money, Like, I don't process
that.
And I didn't even know.
It sounded like.
It didn't sound like a lot in.
In pesos for.

(04:18):
For jewelry.
Yeah.
I mean, it was like this.
Like, it's really weak.
Like, it's already broken ofthe jewelry I bought.
But it.
Yeah.
I didn't know that we spent$400, like, American money on that
when American money, like,that should have.
That would have been like $10,$15, what I bought.
Yeah.

(04:39):
But anyways, that's a whole tangent.
I'll probably cut that.
But.
So we got a car.
We drove from the airporteight hours to our first destination,
and then stayed there for afew days and drove four hours to
our next destination, and thenthree hours to our final destination.
That's just how we travel.

(04:59):
We like to see like where weare and try the different cities
and cultures and stuff.
What did you do?
What did you, what did youexperience in the tr.
In the four hours?
Like, what did you see?
What?
Tell me some culture that you saw.
So of course, like when youdrive you see like how vastly different.
I mean, just around like howthe US like you travel and you see

(05:21):
like the environment'sdifferent, the housing's different,
different, different.
You know, how they live.
Like you're just seeing an outside.
Yeah, yeah.
And then like when each townthat you stay in, you see again,
like the different ways of living.
So outside of one of the townsthat we stayed in, it was very much
so, like kind of what youwould think of, of like the third

(05:44):
world.
Like, you know, it's justthese buildings that are look abandoned,
no windows, no like nothingbut those.
Like they're actually livingin that multi generationally with
yeah, a lot of people and it'swild, but that's normal to them.

(06:04):
So we, you know, see that.
And unfortunately we haven'tlearned Spanish yet.
So one of the bummers is thatwe can't just sit and have conversations
about, you know what?
I'm kind of learning Spanishbecause, well, you know, I know I
speak Portuguese, but I've hadsome ladies coming and cleaning the
shop and they speak panic Spanish.

(06:25):
And so I've been wanting totalk to them.
So I've been kind of trying towork on that.
Yeah, we definitely decidedthat that is what we're doing.
So we actually go to a lot ofthose countries.
We do.
And we always say we're goingto learn Spanish, we're going to
learn Spanish.
But just while we were inDominican, like, it just really hit.
Like if we knew Spanish wecould talk to them about, you know,
what's, what's going on andlike, you know, tell us because in

(06:47):
my mind I'm seeing them.
I'm like, how miserable.
Like during the days it's sohot that you'll just see like the
moms and babies just sittingoutside on a bucket on the side of
the road with the babies.
But then at night it's.
That's when everything comesto life.
Like, it's like the kids areout running and playing.
It's, you know, everyone'slike starting to conjugate.
But I think it's because it'sso hot in the morning that like,

(07:10):
you just, your body cannothandle that.
And so everyone's just sittinglike on the side of the road and
stuff.
Oh, interesting.
I wonder if that's partiallywhy they have a siesta and take like
a longer lunch and nap duringthe day.
Is because it's better to beout at night.
But I don't know because Icouldn't ask, you know, but let's
do.
We're.
We're not sponsored by them,but we should be because we're gonna.

(07:33):
Let's do duolingo.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then we want to find alittle community, like, of people
who are also learning Spanishor already speak Spanish.
I'll do it with you.
To where we go on, like littledates with this little group and,
you know, practice speaking or something.
Yeah, totally.
Yeah, I'll let you know.
Okay.

(07:53):
I feel like I have a lot tocut now.
Oh, why?
Because you're telling usabout your.
It was supposed to be so fast.
Oh, okay.
Okay.
So travel through Dominican.
Our last night.
Our last two nights.
When we do these, like, longtravels, we like to go into an all
occlusive resort just to,like, have that final, like, we get

(08:14):
to relax instead of justtraveling every day.
And when we got to the allinclusive resort, we got word that
the kids had hand, foot and mouth.
And what's like was, you know,oh, I don't know what to do is.
Because we were supposed tocome home for one day, grab the kids,
and then go to Utah for a week.

(08:35):
But obviously the two.
Lanyan.
Yeah.
With Simon's family.
But obviously they have hand,foot, and mouth.
Hello.
Okay.
Obviously they have hand, footand mouth.
Like, that's really contagious.
Like, we shouldn't be going anywhere.
And so everyone was like,really bummed.
And I felt like the bad guy.
So I was like, we're like,we're just not going.
It's not cool.

(08:55):
And then we're going to gethome and we're going to get it.
And it's just like, what arewe going to do?
Like, it's just not.
It's not what we can do.
And so then I felt bad and,like, was getting a lot of pushback.
And so I was like, you know what?
Let me see if I can get adoctor's appointment.
We'll go to the doctor, we'llsee what the doctor says.
And of course I'm like, thedoctor's gonna be like, no, you gotta
stay home.
But it went the complete opposite.

(09:16):
She was like, no.
Like, these bumps are, likeall scabbed over.
The only ones that, like, arereally there, like in the back of
the mouth, which is onlycontagious if you Drink after them,
and you're not gonna bedrinking after anyone on the plane.
And, you know, don't drinkafter them.
And.
And she was like, I would sendthem to school tomorrow, like, after.
Yeah.
And I was like, really?
And she goes, yes.

(09:37):
Like, you're fine.
Like, people act like it's,you know, this big, big deal.
And she was like, but it's okay.
Was before.
That was mess.
Yes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is.
Because I've.
I've had to deal with it withkids and me.
Like, it's just.
It's so contagious.
It's so bad.
Oh, yeah, I believe it.
Like, I was, you know, I'mkind of like a germ freak, and so

(09:58):
I was, like, dreading cominghome, so I was like, I don't.
I really don't want it.
I really don't feel like.
It was perfect that you got togo on vacation and the kids got to
get their one bad, contagioussickness of the year while you were
at home.
Yeah.
And so, yeah, we went to Utah.
No one else got it.
It didn't spread.
I still don't have it.
And obviously I would have hadit by now.
So it all worked out well.

(10:19):
Everyone's healthy now.
We're back home.
And then I was trying to thinkof a fail.
And honestly, the first failthat came to my mind was when Simon
and I were in Dominican Republic.
The first two, three days, wedid, like, we took lots of photos.
We did, you know, touristythings, and, you know, we're documenting
it.
And then towards the end ofthe trip, we.

(10:40):
I didn't take any photos.
I didn't take any videos.
I just kind of stopped.
But it's because we startedleaving our phones in the.
In the room, and then we'd goout to dinner and stuff.
And my fail was honestly goingto be that.
My favorite part, I think, on.
On the trip was that we went.
We left our phones in theroom, and then we walked down the
street until a restaurant kindof, you know, stood out to us, which,

(11:00):
again, all the restaurants areoutside, and all the restaurants
kind of look the same, but,like, you know, serve different foods.
And so one stood out.
We went and sat down.
The town that we are in isn'tvery intermixed with English.
And so, of course, this placethat we picked doesn't have, like,
a menu that helps you, like,read it, you know, because it was
only in Spanish, English, and.

(11:21):
And we didn't bring our phones.
And so I was like, I guesswe're just gonna Pick something off
the menu.
And so Simon's, of course,like, picking, like, the one, you
know, one off words that hecan pick.
He goes, that's what I'm eating.
I'm eating cassada.
Okay, okay.
And then I was.
Or ask the waiter, like, whatis it for?

(11:42):
I didn't speak English.
So again, we didn't speak.
We only.
We don't speak Spanish.
And so again, we couldn't readthe menu and we couldn't communicate
with the server.
And so at first we were like,well, shit, next time, I don't know
what to do.
And you know what?
I literally stared at the menand I picked.
I picked a whole.
A whole entree of food that Icould not pick a single word out

(12:08):
of.
And I was like, God, for all Iknow, I'm about to be served, like,
a plate of intestines.
Right.
And what lingua.
The food that came.
Right.
That literally what I wastalking like, please not.
But no, what I ended upordering was this shrimp in a garlic
sauce with a side of, like,mashed plantains that was like, it

(12:32):
tastes, like, yummy.
Yeah.
I was like, yeah, turned out good.
And I was like, man, that wasso cool.
Like, it just crossed them offthe menu.
And it was delicious, luckily.
But I think my actual fail is.
Last week, we were talkingabout in our intro how I had a big
test coming up and how itwould be really dumb if I failed

(12:55):
it because it's open book andI failed it.
I feel like that's my fail forbeing like, it's open book.
You can't fail.
I feel awful for saying that.
No, I'm very sorry.
No.
Because.
Right.
I had no expect.
I did.
I went into that test with nota single worry about failing.
And honestly, all thequestions were so, like, they made

(13:19):
sense to me that I. I mean, Ihad, like, two and a half hours to
take it, and I did it in,like, 35 minutes.
Oh, yeah.
And then when it shows youwhich ones you got wrong.
Honestly, I got wrong the onesthat were like, pick all that apply,
and then maybe I picked twoinstead of three.

(13:40):
That all, you know, that.
That applied or something tricky.
Yeah.
So got you.
You know, I could have taken longer.
I could have actually gonethrough and.
Looked up each one of them inthe book.
Yeah.
Just in case.
But I mean, honestly, I feellike with the ones that I got wrong,
like, I didn't get them wrong.

(14:02):
I like, you know, selected.
Right, right, right.
You just.
Not enough of them didn't.
Yeah.
You just need to have a Morerounded, more information.
Yeah.
So I failed my test, but I'm sorry.
No, it's fine.
It got me into going anddoing, like, the minor test, which

(14:23):
are, like, learning about anddoing, like, little things on actual
different subjects that youcan work on clients with, and that
has, like, reignited, like,the interest.
And now I'm excited to retakethe test after doing these.
Cause, like, it's cool.
Yeah.
I don't know if I think wewere talking about it earlier and

(14:43):
maybe.
So cut this if you're leaving that.
But what was reallyinteresting is you said something
about, like.
Oh, yeah.
So then the minor test, youkind of have to know, like, there's
one about addiction and oneabout, like, weight loss and one
about, I don't know, mentalhealth, all these things.
But you're like.
But then you have to go backin and learn the why.

(15:03):
Like, why is this important?
And it's, like, reignitingyour excitement, which I thought
was really cool.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because getting, like, it'skind of like in school.
Like, when you're in schooland you have to.
You have to sit there throughmath that you're never going to use
again and, you know, sciencethat you're probably never gonna

(15:24):
really use again.
Like, it's just blah.
And, you know, they're like,why are we doing that?
There's not really a while.
Or then you have to.
And so it's kind of like that,like, with this kind of school, it's
like, there's a lot ofbackground stuff, and it's.
You want to be like, why do Ihave to learn that?
But then obviously you need toget the whole.
Applicable.

(15:45):
Yeah.
And then once you get the,like into specific pieces, it's like,
that's the why.
Because now I know, like, theins and outs of that topic.
And it'll help.
Yeah.
With other people.
So.
Yeah.
That's amazing.
I love it.
You had a very full and busythree weeks.
Yeah.

(16:05):
That was a lot of talking.
Now I might lose my voice.
I'm just kidding.
Well, go rest up.
Did you.
I was gonna share somethingjust dumb that happened.
I don't know if it's a fail ora success or anything, except for
that this happened to me and Iforgot about it.
But I wrote it down.
So that's the success.

(16:27):
It is the success.
I was so proud of you.
Yeah, that's right.
So that's a success.
Because I remember I was like.
When that happened, I waslike, I got to tell.
I got to tell the people onthe pod this.
So Like, I was at the Dunsbecause I was cleaning out the.
The shop.
Oh, that's right.
You mentioned that you had todo that.
Yeah, because, well, after thedivorce, like, everything came here

(16:47):
and just got piled in the back.
And it's like I had to gothrough a bunch of crap.
And so I made a dump.
I made two dump runs,actually, and I'm going to make one
more.
But the point is, I went tothe dump.
They.
When you get there, it's likea big warehouse.
It's not a normal dump thatI'm used to.
It was like a warehouse thatyou just, like, back your truck into.
You throw everything on theground, and then a bulldozer comes

(17:08):
and takes it and pushes itwherever it goes.
So before you back in, though,they want you to park in, like, a
slot and wait.
And the slots are numbered onethrough five.
And so they're like, go parkin number one.
And I was like, okay.
And then the guy.
Then there's a guy that comesup to you, and he's like, telling
me, like, to back my truck upto number five.

(17:30):
And I don't know what thatmeans because there's no, like, slot
numbers behind me in the warehouse.
And so I'm like, where do youwant me to back up to?
I was just like, can you be alittle more clear?
And he goes, do you even knowhow to back this up?
This thing up?
Because it was a truck and I'ma girl and he was trying to flirt
with me.

(17:50):
And you know how those guysthat are just, like, super, like.
How can I say this?
Not mean, like.
Eric, he's just trashy.
Okay?
He's trashy.
I'm just going to say it.
Mean, like, and.
But trashy by, like, appearance?
Or like, trashy by, like, his.
The way he talks to you.
The way his appearance.

(18:11):
Yes.
Like, uneducated and ignorantand doesn't seem redneck.
Yes, we are.
I just didn't want to say it.
But you know what?
There's plenty of rednecks who.
Well, anyway, it doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter.
He was just very not.

(18:32):
I didn't like him at all.
Joe type.
No.
And then he came up to me andgoes, do you even know how to drive
this thing, little lady?
Kind of like that.
And I was just.
He didn't say little lady, butit was just like that.
Like that.
And I was like.
I ignored him.
I didn't even answer because Idon't owe him any answers.
And of course I can drive it.
I'M in the car.
And he goes.

(18:53):
I said, where do you want meto back up to?
And he's just like, well, doyou even know how to back it up?
And I said, where am I backingup to?
And he's like, I'll just show you.
And he starts walking next tothe car while my window's down.
And then he's, like,pretending that I'm going to run
over him.
And he.
He.

(19:13):
I was like, oh, my gosh.
I yelled at him.
And I said, you are so annoying.
Because he wouldn't just tellme where to go.
He's like, walking next to my car.
As it's moving and being like, a.
Little more this way, a littlemore this way.
Oh, you ran over me.
And I'm just like.
So I yelled like, oh, my gosh,you are.

(19:33):
So he goes, what did I do?
And I was like, just tell mewhere to go.
And he's like, okay.
So he, like, points me whereto go.
And then I guess the successout of all that is he helped me unload
the truck when that's nottheir job.
He was like, oh, I don't.
I don't fucked up bad.
Yeah.

(19:54):
And then I was like.
And he's like, well, what?
And he asked me again, well,what did I do?
I was like, you were justlike, you wouldn't just tell me where
to go.
And I was.
Acted like I didn't know how to.
Frustrated.
You're acting like I didn'tknow how to do anything.
He's like, oh.
And so I guess, like, in theend, maybe it was good because, like,
I could tell him.
Yeah, he did give you theopportunity to, like.

(20:16):
Yeah.
Because usually people will belike, what a.
And then, like, walk off.
You know what?
You're right.
So I take back the part about.
Because I said he wasuneducated, and he seemed like he
didn't want to be educated.
I take it back.
He did let me say how I felt.
And he.
And he kind of listened whenhe could have been mad at me for
yelling at him.
But, yeah, I actually thinkthat's really cool because, yeah,

(20:42):
I'm not proud that.
I, like, yelled at him.
It was funny.
And he was like, he did laugh.
And then he goes, what did I do?
Because he knew he was being annoying.
He knew it.
It's like those people whoare, like, just picking on the girl
trying to get him.
And so, yeah, he helped meunload the truck, and then he, like,
wouldn't stop talking to me,and he wanted to say hi To Oliver.
And.
And so, like, in the end, itwas like, I just wanted to get out

(21:04):
of there, but at the sametime, he changed its tune anyway.
Yeah, to me, I guess so.
And I guess I have to kind oftake it back and be like, okay, he
wasn't completely bad in the end.
He was just doesn't know howto talk to girls, I guess.
I mean, would you have changedsince he did let you, like, explain?
Would you have changed how youhandled it or, like.

(21:25):
Yeah, probably that was the way.
Well, maybe for him, that wasthe way because he was being so,
like.
Ignoring.
He was being over the topabout, like, trying to be funny,
but it wasn't funny.
Like, it wasn't funny.

(21:46):
So I think I probably wouldhave done it.
I didn't yell at him, but Ijust, like, said it very loud and
exasperated, like, oh, mygosh, you are so annoying.
And I just.
I put my phone on the breakand said that.
And he just goes, I've never seen.
You get to that point.
You haven't?
I think I. Yeah, I was at that point.

(22:07):
That is so funny.
I love it.
Yeah.
So anyway, that was a longstory, and it did not need me to
be that long.
No.
But it happened.
Yeah.
No, I think it's funny.
Yeah.
We all get to that point.
Like, we're.
We're in a situation andsometimes it just slips.
Like, oh, my God.
And just to hug.
Get out of the way, like,Jesus Christ.

(22:27):
Like.
Yeah, I think we all get tothat point at some point.
So, yeah, you know, I. Iguess, you know, the fail is, is
that we let situations andpeople get us to those points, you
know, but then at the sametime, the, you know, when is that
you were given the opportunityto explain him.

(22:47):
Yeah, exactly.
And, yeah.
And then I think I was able tobe like, thank you so much for helping
me, because I also felt badfor yelling at him.
I say yelling, but it's in quotes.
Yeah.
So I.
In the end, like, I think weleft it fine, but I was like, God,
I hope he's not there tomorrowwhen I take that run.
And he wasn't.

(23:09):
That's funny.
Well, but glad it worked.
Yeah.
All right, so what we gottoday, we're.
Today we have Nikki joining us.
She was a joy to talk to.
And I just.
Honestly, what's so funny iswhat I kept thinking about and thinking
about is, like, man, I wish Icould meet her mom.
Because, like, listening toher talk to her, like, about her

(23:31):
mom and.
Yeah, that really.
I was like, I just want toKnow your mom.
Yeah, I remember thatresonating with you.
She was just.
And I was thinking about hertoo, how she also seems like a good
mom.
I can't remember what it is.
I have to re.
Listen to the episode, and I will.
Yeah.

(23:51):
Yeah.
She's very open and has, like.
That's right.
Yeah.
The very.
I remember thinking it's like,just like generational trauma.
Generational positivity.
Yeah.
And I appreciate her opennessabout, you know, really just point
blank, like, racism that shegrew up, that her mom kind of shielded

(24:13):
her from.
And, you know, she had tolearn later in life, like, oh, that's
what that was.
And.
And I just think that that wasalso, like, really vulnerable and.
Yeah.
You know, but.
And that's gonna be, like, areally hard and personal thing for
a parent to have to, like, do.
Like, how.

(24:33):
How much do I let my kid in onknowing what's happening in the world?
Do I let them know, like,yeah, they're being looked at a different.
In a different way, or do Ilet them just.
They just changed their mind?
You know, that's kind of likethe sense that I was getting is that,
like, her mom kind of turnedit into, like a.

(24:53):
They just changed their mindabout the sleepover.
No big deal.
Yeah, exactly.
Like, she.
So she went, like, a totallydifferent route.
And I think some parents.
I remember Melissa Walkersaying something to me once, and
I thought it was quite pivotal.
Pivotal, because I'm obviouslyrepeating it again.
But she said, why do I have tobe the one to tear my kid down?

(25:15):
The world's gonna do it for him.
And I was like, you're right,because it was about something really
stupid.
And I was like, why aren't youtelling this child, like, this thing
about them?
She's like, no, no.
And I was like, God, you're so right.
And so I saw that in Nikki andher experience with her mom.

(25:36):
Like, her mom's like, she'sgonna find out soon enough.
Let's let her be a child andenjoy her friends and her sleepovers
without knowing that racismwas involved.
Yeah.
And.
And I think she makes acomment about it, too, in the recording.
But, you know, kind of goesinto it also teaches it breaks that
cycle of hate.

(25:57):
Because could you have beenangry and made it very known to your
children that they dislike you in.
You know, what am I trying to,like, spread that hate onto that
intensity, onto the child, butinstead being able to turn it into,
like, not making it.

(26:19):
Not.
Not making it a big deal.
Right.
Because it's still A big deal.
It was still a big deal, but.
She didn't want it to be aboutrace for her at that moment in her
life.
And I think that's like, wewere kind of saying, like, maybe
that's not the right call forall parents and stuff.
But it was.
It clearly was the right thingfor Nikki.

(26:41):
And it was.
It was beautiful the way itwas done.
And she's.
And you'll hear about it.
Grown, a beautiful life withwonderful kids.
And, yeah, she was just areally beautiful soul to talk to.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
So enjoy.
All right, so today we havewith us Nikki Allen.

(27:04):
And Nikki is a songwriter, andshe has recently written a book as
well.
She wrote a book off of hersong Love you, Hate you, which is
a story about her life throughdomestic violence.
So thank you for joining us, Nikki.
Thank you for having me.
Yeah.
And, you know, you guys aregoing to be listening to this in

(27:25):
October.
And as you know, October isDomestic Violence Awareness Month.
So we thought that this wouldjust be the best conversation to
hear how she used music.
How you.
Nikki.
I'm sorry.
I was talking to the audience,used, you know, music and just these
different creative outlets tohandle what she went through.
So thank you for wanting toshare that with us.
Absolutely.
So I actually.

(27:45):
I listened to your song Loveyoue Hated you'd.
And it really brought me back.
Like, I felt like I waslistening to, like, my favorite 90s
R B.
I feel so dumb because Iactually didn't go listen.
I didn't realize that.
I just didn't listen to it.
I didn't realize who.
We were talking today.
And I messed up big time.
So nippy.
I apologize.

(28:06):
No worries.
Look, it's out there, so it'snot like you'll never get a chance
to hear it.
I'll be listening to it this afternoon.
Yeah.
How long has that song been out?
When did you start?
That came out.
That was on my first album,which was actually in 2006.
Oh, wow.
How many albums do you have?
One full album and a couplesingles that charted on itunes.

(28:30):
What are the singles that,like, you're most proud of that you
love?
I. I love both of my singles.
Bartender was.
Is the latest one.
It was actually in 2019.
I'm actually working on somenew music.
But Bartender is the latestthat's out there, and I really love
that.
But the other one is I did acover of My Favorite Things.

(28:50):
Oh, you did?
Oh, I heard that.
I love it.
Heard that.
Yes.
Because I need Yourself.
Yes.
Thank you.
Because.
Yes.
Because, Sam, you Told meabout her.
My dog just got.
Saw how excited I got himrunning over.
Yeah.
When Sam, you first told meabout Nikki was like, you must have
talked to her a while back.
Yeah.

(29:11):
And I went and looked her up.
Yeah.
And so I bet you I heard morethan just that.
But that one I kept on repeatfor, like, a week.
Yeah, really?
Really.
That one was.
I'll just say this.
The producer and I had, at onepoint, had a relationship.
He's a guy that I can alwayscall on, that he understands me musically.

(29:32):
So I said, hey, I want to.
I want to redo my favorite things.
And he said, sing a little bitof it into the phone.
So I sang a little bit, and heorchestrated that whole thing, and
then I just redid the.
Arranged the vocals like that,and it was so magical.
But it just.
To me, it was like ourfriendship, our relationship, you
know, it just really.

(29:52):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's one of my favorites, though.
Oh, I want to look that one up.
I didn't hear that one.
Yeah, I love it.
Do you.
Do you like musicals, Nikki?
Did they have, like, a bigimpact on your life?
Musicals just for you tochoose that song?
Music.
I just love the music.
It's like, I just embody musicin all kinds.

(30:13):
It's like, it doesn't matterwhat kind.
You'd be.
If you heard my playlist,you'd be like, is she okay?
Because, like, total, like, rock.
And then there's.
Oh, and then there'sorchestral, and then there's.
And then there's smooth jazz,and then there's a whole ton of R
B.
But it's.
It's all over the place, andI'm like, who in on all of it?

(30:36):
Yeah.
You love it.
Yeah.
So musicals.
I all love it.
It just.
Anything with music, I'm in ifit's good.
Were you into theater or musicor anything in school?
Yeah, I was.
Funny story.
I wanted to play the flutewhen, you know, fourth grade, I think,

(30:57):
is when you get to pick yourinstruments and all of that.
And I'll give you a little backstory.
I lived in an affluentneighborhood, but we were the only
black family there, so theytried to sabotage us in every way
possible.
Yeah, we've had crosses burnedput on our house the whole night.
I've been through a lot.
Oh, gosh.
But even the administratorswere really, really just, like, against

(31:17):
me.
I got in trouble one time.
I wasn't even at school.
But anyway.
Oh, my gosh.
True story.
I wanted to play the flute,and it was just because I wanted
to do it.
You can't do it.
So they had everybody blowinginto the mouthpieces and all of that.
And I felt like I blew in theflute mouthpiece.
Okay.
But the guy was like, no, you didn't.
So I went home and told my gosh.

(31:39):
And she goes, well, what areyou going to play?
I said, the clarinet.
I mean, you played the clarinet.
She was like, you're going togo back to that school and you're
going to tell them and I'mgoing to write you a note.
You're going to play the flute.
Because damn it, if you wantto play the flute, you play the flute.
So what a good mom.
Well, my mom was all aboutthat, let me tell you.
And so I went back and theywere like, you're not playing the

(32:00):
flute.
But I ended up playing the flute.
Good.
Playing first chair all theway through high school.
That's amazing.
Did they eat their words?
Please tell me, please tell methey ate their words.
And somebody came back to youand said sorry, no.
And actually in seventh oreighth grade, somebody stole my flute.
And when I got it back, allthe keys were pulled back.

(32:24):
But it didn't work out forthem because they didn't know my
mom had bought me two flutes.
And so I had.
So they.
It.
It didn't work.
But no one has ever apologize.
And it's so interestingbecause a lot of these, my friends
from school from that era,we're all Facebook friends and no
one.
And we're really friends likeyou just kind of grow up and grow

(32:47):
out.
But we never talked about thereal what happened.
Yeah, what happened back then?
Because there was one girl, wewere having our house built and that
was the other problem.
We were this black family, theonly ones having their house actually
built from the ground up.
So that's problematic.
But you know, while it wasbeing built, I was going to school
in that neighborhood and Iwould have to wait for my mom in

(33:08):
this half built house.
So met a friend that said Icould come over.
You know, her mom and my momtalked and they were like, no, she
shouldn't stay in that houseby herself till you get off work.
She'll come have dinner withus and he pick her up from here.
So after school, I'm sorry,we're talking about something totally
different, but I just.
Want to tell you this, you're fine.
This is not different.
It's you.
And so I went to the girl'shouse and we're playing dolls.

(33:31):
My back was to her bedroomdoor and her mom comes in I didn't
meet her mom.
Okay.
So her and my mom had just talked.
So we're playing dollswhenever mom comes in, and she goes,
michelle goes, mom, this is Nicole.
And I turned around, and shewas like, michelle, come here right
now.
And she was gone for a long time.

(33:54):
And then she came back just.
Just.
Just eerily crying.
She said, you have to go.
And I'm like, why?
Our moms talk.
Like, I'm so.
Just like, not about that.
And she's like, you have to go.
You have to go.
You have to go.
What I love about my mom isthroughout the years, I never really
understood why I had to go,because she never said, you know,
never made it about a racial thing.

(34:15):
And those people movedliterally about a week later.
Whoa.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So your mom never kind ofsaid, hey, this is what was going
on.
They were being fine.
No, we never had.
And I think it was because shedidn't want me to get caught up in
a racism situation.
You know what I mean?
Like, it's gonna come.
People do, the black peopleand leave, you know, it was never
that.

(34:35):
It was just ignorance on their part.
Totally.
And, you know, and so I. I really.
I missed my mom so much.
She passed away, 21.
She got me to California tomake sure I pursued my career, and
she died 11 months later.
I am so sorry.
Thank you.
But she was amazing.
She was really amazing.
She sounds amazing.
Oh, yeah.

(34:56):
If you see this poster right here.
Yeah.
Your dreams take flight.
She gave this to me in, like,sixth grade.
Oh, my gosh.
I love that.
This room is my spiritual room.
And I have all kinds of thingsthat she's given me.
You know, unicorns over there.
And then she actually wrotesomething for me.
My eighth grade graduation.

(35:16):
But the end, it says, you arethe love of my life.
Were you an only child?
You could say that.
My brother's 10 years olderthan me, and he was through a previous
marriage that my mom had.
Okay, okay.
So we didn't necessarily growup together because he went away
to boarding school while I wasgrowing up.

(35:38):
Okay, okay.
Wow.
Your mom sounds like she is.
So did you always have, like, a.
A passion for music, even whenyou were young?
It started with the flute.
Or before.
Before my dad would come homeand go in the basement and crank
up Marvin Gaye, ArethaFranklin, Diana, and the house would

(36:00):
vibrate with music.
So it wasn't just your mom then.
You really had, like, fromboth sides.
That support and goosebumps.
That sounds amazing.
Yeah.
And I would go down in thebasement and just Sit there with
him.
And it was just.
And so I fell in love withDiana Ross.
And that is.
She was the reason why I waslike, I want to sing.
I want to sound like her.

(36:20):
I want to be like her.
So I know what you're talkingabout, because I. I'm sure you've
probably done it, Sam, but Ifeel like everyone, if they've never
done it, should have theexperience of just lying down in
a room, whether they're aloneor with somebody else, being quiet
and just letting the musicjust fill the room, like, actually
take up space and, like, comeinto your body and move.

(36:40):
You know what I mean?
Like, it's something so realand I.
Really embody music, you know?
Yes.
So.
Wow, that's.
Yeah.
That's amazing.
So music has always been, youknow, this thing for me.
And just side note, I trainedfor the Olympics as a gymnast.
Oh, that's right.
I forgot you told me that.

(37:00):
Yeah, but I didn't want to bea gymnast.
I wanted to be a singer.
Okay.
Okay.
I would take my dad off, but.
You were good enough to go tothe tryouts because don't you, like,
have to meet, like, certaincriteria before you can even try
out?
Oh, wow.
Wow.
Junior Olympics before that.
And can I ask, where did yougrow up?
Like, what?
In Illinois.

(37:21):
Illinois.
Okay, explained.
Here's some of my things over here.
But I trained with thiscompany called Ike Turner, and they
actually brought gymnastics tothe United States.
Really?
Well.
And they were prejudiced, too.
They didn't want me there either.
Really?
Yes.
I lived in the city of Chicago.
They were in the city of Chicago.

(37:42):
And my mom took me therebecause she said I was bouncing off
the walls and flipping allover the place.
So she was like, I want to getyou in a class.
And she walked in and theywere like, oh, no, no room.
But everybody else was getting in.
So then we had our house builtin the suburbs, and they moved to
the suburbs kind of around thetime we did.
So this time my mom called and.

(38:03):
Yeah, he called and was like,hey, you know, do you have room?
They were like, of course we do.
Bring her in.
So they were very shocked whenI walked in.
But that's.
Your mom is.
Yeah, she's assistant.
She's like, no, you're notgoing to take less and you shouldn't.
Never, ever, ever.
I have the biggest, craziestdreams because this is what I heard

(38:25):
in my house almost every day.
You can do anything you wantto do as long as you put your mind
to it and can't Was notallowed in my vocabulary.
I love it.
I love it.
I love your mom.
I love my mama, too.
Oh, wow.
And see, picture Mama.
Let's see.
Yeah, this is me and her.

(38:45):
I don't know.
We can't see anything.
They're just little.
Yeah, I see.
I see it.
Oh, that's so sweet.
My ribbons and stuff from gymnastics.
Wow.
Yeah.
Wow.
So interesting life.
Yeah.

(39:06):
Yeah.
Did you.
So I know your mom, like, gotyou to.
Where did what you said?
California.
California.
Okay.
So I'm hearing you played,like, first chair.
You were, like, allorchestrated, like, orchestral style,
I'm guessing.
Yeah.
Through high school.
Yeah.
When was your, like, first experience?

(39:26):
When you're like, I'm gonnatry to put myself out there for the
world.
Like, when she wrote an album.
I'm about to pick up mycomputer and walk you through my
room, because.
Let's do it.
Okay.
Because I have so high school,I was very terribly shy, but I knew
I wanted to sing.
And so my freshman year inhigh school, I saw this group perform,

(39:47):
and I was like, they soundedso good.
They sounded like the record.
And I'm like, I want to do this.
So my sophomore year, I waslike, I'm going to get in this talent
show.
And my prayer to God was, if Ilose, I will never pursue this ever
again.
If I win, I'm going to takethis as a sign to go.
And I did a duet because I wastoo scared to do it by myself.

(40:11):
Sometimes we need that.
Right?
That was my duet.
Right, exactly.
So I did this duet.
We won first place.
And so I was like, okay, we're on.
What is you seeing this?
So the Debarges were myfavorite group, and so I did a song
that they did back then.
Okay.
And what's interesting is thatthey've become.

(40:32):
It's so funny, because a lotof these things, people that I was
like, I want to be around andpart of, have been literally in my
life for real.
Oh, that's awesome.
Did you start.
When you started writing yoursongs and getting ready to do your
first record, what was goingon in your life was what was going

(40:53):
on with your mom and moving,like, the most predominant thing
going on in your life or hadyou already experienced, you know,
what caused you to write,Loved you, hated you.
So my mom had.
Like I said, my mom had passed11 months after I moved out here,
which is how I want to kind of say.
I got into this abusiverelationship because I was.

(41:14):
I met this guy.
I didn't have any family out here.
I just lost My mom dad was,because I wasn't the gymnast or accountant,
you know, he wasn't dealingwith me.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
So you were in a reallyvulnerable state.
Very vulnerable.
And here comes this guy inthis news place I'm in, you know,

(41:35):
and this, this professor toldme, I, I, I hit the charm harm perfectly.
So he was very charming, right?
And, and I, I, I for this guy,I won't say he's had an abusive personality.
Like, he's just volatile allthe time.
But he didn't know how tomanage his anger or frustrations

(41:56):
when he got mad.
And so.
But truth be told, I neverthought I was a songwriter.
All the music that was out andstill out is always about shaking
your ass and showing me thisand bend over this way and do that.
And that's really not me.
I'm all about the love and the.
Possibility behind you on the wall.

(42:19):
I love it.
I'm a Capricorn.
I mean, I'm a globe.
Right.
Version of a unicorn to me.
Okay.
I'm all about love.
And let's know.
So this guy, the producer, hewas like, well, why don't you write
something and so it can giveme an idea and then I'll produce
something.
And so I wrote it.
And he goes, oh, I didn't knowyou were a songwriter.

(42:41):
I'm like, I'm not.
So that's really, you know,everybody's like, oh, my God, how
many you What?
What?
I didn't know songwriter.
And I'm like.
And I didn't know either wrote that.
I was like, oh.
So that's kind of how thesongwriting thing came in.
And they basically had to belike, no, honey, you are.
The madam, the manager that Ihad at the time.

(43:02):
Somebody had given me a track,and I was sitting at his kitchen
table while his wife wascooking dinner, and I wrote and I
was like, I'm like, I'm done.
He was like, you wrote that inlike five minutes.
Oh, my God.
Yeah.
I go, I told you I'm not a songwriter.
He was like, nikki, did youhear this?
This is amazing.
You are a songwriter.
It took a long time for me toaccept that I was a songwriter.
But fast forward to after Ikind of got out of that relationship

(43:27):
and I started writing becauseI guess I'm a songwriter.
I wrote, loved you, hated youabout that relationship.
I don't know if I had question.
I just went all the way aroundthe world.
But yeah.
Oh, no, we.
That's what we're here for.
You totally did.
She's like, what were you doing?
And you.
You let us know.

(43:47):
That's awesome.
So who.
So, okay.
Wow, this is so much.
So have you ever played thatsong for this person?
Does that person know thatit's about that relationship?
I mean, if he was smart enoughand listening to the lyrics, he would
know if he read the.
It's funny because I don'thave any contact with him, but we
are Facebook friends and.

(44:08):
Yeah.
And his.
His posts don't pop up in myfeed ever.
The moment I released thisbook, his post started popping up
in my feeds out of the blue.
Right.
Whoa.
I guess vice versa because heliked the book.
You know, he did a thumbs uplike, you dummy.
Until you want to thumbs up that.

(44:28):
But okay.
Oh my God, that's.
And did you just recently get it?
The book?
That's what I was about to ask.
Yeah, yeah, Jim.
It was released.
So I wrote the song and the song.
Why say it sounds it 90s?
I think I wrote it liketowards the end of the 90s.

(44:50):
And then that's why I thinkit's the last song on the album.
Because I was like, let's justthrow it on there.
Oh, wow.
It's always the last songthrown on an album that like.
Yeah.
So I threw it on there andthen I really like the song and I
really like.
I don't know, I just liked howit was about me, really.
And I was like, I could seethis as a story, but I wanted to

(45:14):
add, of course, because I like unicorns.
The love story at the end, thebook actually is not all about domestic
violence.
It's about this woman having to.
It's a fictional story.
It is fictional.
Okay.
But it's about.
Yeah, it's loosely based onwhat I've been through.
Got it.
But the end is just, you know,I want people understand, you get

(45:36):
to choose.
And it's all about self love.
I forgot that you hadmentioned that, that you wanted to
write something and you did.
That really, really, reallyled you to fall in love with the
guy as well.
So that you could see howslight and just how small those,
you know, final steps are towhere you're like, holy smokes, what

(45:57):
am I in?
And what just happened?
So that's really cool.
And I did not get a chance toread it, but I really want to because
I think that that's a great idea.
Like a lot of people whohaven't been into that kind of situation.
You know, I think Nikki, wetalked about this.
Your friends will be like, oh,well then just leave if it's not

(46:17):
that bad.
And then after so many times,then they just kind of drop you and
you're alone, and they justdon't understand.
And I love going back to Diddyand Cassie because she was.
You know, that was such a bigstory in media, and everybody's like,
why didn't she just leave?
She had so many times to leave.
She left and she went back.

(46:38):
And it's like, I think, youknow, I wrote this story way before
their situation became public,but it addresses why we stay.
There's an actual line inthere to somebody that she explains
why she stays.
It's just like, that easy, youknow, it's not.
You know, and when you.
Like, for me, my mom was my anchor.

(46:59):
I lost that.
I'm holding on to somethingelse to try to get me through.
But the soul surgery, what I.
Which is what I like to callit, is trying to understand why am
I holding on to this when I'mreally not getting anything out of
it.
Well, it's interesting you saythat you're holding on to that, because
I feel like that's what it is.

(47:19):
It's like, even though you'rein this volatile relationship and
you're having, like, thesereally difficult, hard times, you're
still really.
Good times mixed in.
That's what I'm about to say.
You're holding on to all ofthe amazing stuff that you have also
been through with that person.
Correct.
Because let me tell you, ithasn't happened since I came home
one Valentine's Day.

(47:40):
We didn't live together.
He had a key to my apartment, though.
And when I opened the door,walked down the hallway, turned on
the lights to my bedroom fullof flowers, balloons, and I had rose
petals leading up to thebedroom, you know, So I still haven't
had that since.
But, I mean, he would dothings like that.
Brand gestures.

(48:00):
Yeah.
And the cards.
He'd write these, oh, mostromantic cards about how much I was
the best thing ever.
That's what you hold on to.
Because this must be just temporary.
I'll deal with it.
It's not all the time.
It's.
I can handle it.
Part of the roller coaster.
Part of the roller coaster,you know?
And also, you kind of have probably.

(48:22):
Well, I.
In my mind, in the back of mymind, I've had moments where, like,
where I've gone throughsomething like that with somebody
into my past.
It was like.
I was thinking, when you saidtemporary, that was what hit me,
because it's like you kind ofthink, well, they're just having
A hard time.
We're going to get over this.
It's not like we just have tosettle in.
We haven't really hit our easyyears yet.
You know what I mean?
As if.

(48:43):
As if they're not showing youwho they are.
Right.
And.
Right.
And let's.
Let's.
Let's keep it real and 100%.
And then if the lovemaking isgreat, then that's another situation.
Deal with, like, especially ifyou haven't, like, gotten to be sexually
experienced yet.
You think it.
Does it get better?
Am I going to miss out?
Right.
Because it gets.

(49:04):
And you don't want to.
I 100% understand that.
Oh, yeah.
I had all those things going against.
How are you able?
So I heard.
Sorry.
Is it okay if I ask a quick question?
Sam, I. I didn't interrupt you.
She had said.
You had said the word soulsurgery is what it took, like, to
kind of, like, reframe your,like, mindset to be able to get strong

(49:24):
enough to get out.
Can you kind of, like, walk usthrough, like, what did it take?
What did you do to, like, openyour eyes one day?
Or was it slow or did ithappen overnight or how are still
happening?
I don't think salt, now that I'm.
Older, I liked it.
I don't think it ever endsbecause, okay, grow.
You find new things.

(49:45):
You find new quirks.
You.
You.
You have different experiences.
Right, Right.
And then you.
Yeah, why am I responding like this?
And then you gotta go rightback in.
And it's really justintrospect, you know, it's like,
why am I.
Let me.
Let me go.
Talk to me about this, you know?
Right.
Melissa, this is exactly you, like.

(50:06):
And I have a conference withmyself because sometimes, you know.
Right, Sam, you're right.
Well, and I only say that.
I mean, of course, like, Ihave had those moments, too.
Like, obviously, I've.
I've transformed into a wholenew person.
This, you know, last couple of years.
But, Melissa, you've openlytalked about these situations through
the end of last season whereyou were like, man, this really triggered

(50:27):
me.
And this happened, and Iresponded in this way.
And then I had to, like, pullmyself away and be like, why did
I do that?
And then, you know, oh, every time.
You think you've gotten oversomething, it's something else to
show you.
You know that part you gotwhere you left.
You're so right.
It's like an onion.
Like, you take a layer away.
Well, there's still another one.
Yep.

(50:47):
You take that layer away, thenyou elevate.
But Elevation leads you tomore stuff that now, oh, my gosh,
I gotta deal with this.
Okay, we're good.
Okay.
You know, it's like it's.
You just never ending cycle,but it's all good because at least
hopefully you get to a pointwhere you go.
You can check it and clock itand go, okay, let's see what's happening.

(51:09):
Let me go deal with thisreally quick.
Or not quick.
Because there have been somethings, it's like, why am I not getting
that for real?
But I love how you said you elevate.
Because it's true.
If you're gonna grow, well,then you're going to be at a whole
other place and you're goingto be seeing the same things that
you already dealt with in avery different light and way.
So they can still come back to you.

(51:30):
Wow.
I just.
I literally got chills.
Yeah.
And I just kind of like, see,like, I have this, like, image in
my head and I don't know why,but, like, as you're like, talking
like in my head, I see like,okay, we've made it to this level
and then.
Oh, okay.
We gotta, you know, figure away up these stairs and.
Okay.
Around the next level.
And then it's like, by the endof your life, like, I would hope

(51:51):
that you could look down thestaircase and see, like, all of these
things that you addressed hereand, like, raised yourself up on
y. I feel like.
Once you've gotten to thatlevel, you know, where you don't
need to clock anything or fixanything or check anything, you're
probably out of here.
Right.
You did everything that youwere meant to do.
Exactly.
I can definitely.
Oh, no, I just.
In the ch.
I just don't think it.

(52:12):
It really ends.
I don't either.
But yeah.
Yeah, I definitely can lookback to myself 20 years ago and see
a hundred percent completelydifferent person.
Totally different.
And if I wasn't a differentperson, I'd be worried.
Correct.
But, you know, I'm a differentperson than I was three months ago.

(52:33):
And you're right.
It's crazy because, I mean,very different.
You're very different.
I started implementing thisthing called boundaries.
What.
What are boundaries?
Tell us about that.
This little secret called boundary.
And you know, I just.
I. I've always had boundaries,but my walls are always kind of like,

(52:56):
that's like, I need a steelwall for my children too, because,
you know, I always been.
We do that for our kids.
Yeah.
Enough.
Now it's like, no.
How old are.
How many children do you have?
How old are they?
2.
My daughter's 25 and my boy is 18.
Oh, so they're like at thepoint where it's like there's.
You're still their mom, ofcourse, but you can also be more

(53:18):
of a friend too now, huh?
Correct.
And my daughter is probably mybest friend.
She.
She's moved out.
She moved out.
She.
I'm really proud of her.
She moved out when she waslike 18 or 19.
And so she, she was in a studio.
Now she just got her onebedroom apartment, dog, a cat, bought
a new car.
She's a case manager.
So I'm really proud of her.
I should have realized becauseyou did say you wrote us.

(53:40):
I was sitting here thinking,well, shit, I thought you were gonna
say you had like a six yearold and eight year old because you're
just like so young looking.
But then you did say youwrote, I think you're maybe my age,
but.
I'm probably older than you.
I'm the senior citizen here.
But we won't tell anybody.
I'm say, I'm gonna say.
Just say yes OR no.
I'm 45.
I'm older than you.

(54:00):
Okay.
You know what?
My mom.
You look good.
I. I don't mind telling my age.
I used to, but I realized mymom passed at 53.
Okay.
Realize how young that is.
Like she had so much more life.
So I am 56.
You're.
You're past that because wereyou kind of.

(54:21):
We had another guest on andshe talked about as her age was getting
closer to the age when her momhad passed on.
You feel like you're getting adoomsday worried her.
It didn't worry me as much.
I'll take that back.
It.
Did you kind of get that?
Am I gonna make it?
Am I gonna make it?
You know, but my mom is theyoungest person that's passed in

(54:41):
my family.
Like, my Grandma lived to 90,my dad lived to 90.
So it wasn't normal.
But what did happen is therealization of how young that really
is.
And let me stop acting like.
Cause I really, honestly, Ifeel like I'm 27.
My daughter gets mad at mebecause I was celebrating my annual
27th birthday party.

(55:01):
That's hilarious.
My dad was always 29, by the way.
He probably still is.
But no, I was like, mom, I'mcatching up to you.
I was like, and you're gonnapass me because that girl.
But you just.
I'm just.
And this is, this is my newlesson because being in this industry,
they always want young andyouthful and all that stuff.

(55:24):
And it's like, you know what?
I'm just gonna do and be me,you know?
But that's really hard whenyou're fighting against a machine
that's all about age and looksand this and that.
So I just read.
Can I share something with you guys?
I just read.
So I didn't know this, butthere was some philosopher in ancient
Egypt, and I wish I rememberedhis name, but I already forgot.

(55:45):
But he apparently startedtelling women that if they had too
much sex that their eyelasheswould fall out.
Yes.
This is so interesting to me.
Like, I was.
And I kept reading.
I was like, what?
Okay.
And so then because of that,it became a thing where they started
lining their Wearing makeupand that this is where, like, lining
your eyes with coal eyelinerand makeup came from, because they

(56:09):
wanted to make sure that theydidn't look like horrors.
So then take off my fakeeyelashes, because I've had plenty
of sex.
I don't know.
So then.
So then, of course, if theyweren't wearing makeup, then it was,
you look like you're a slut.
And then if you were wearing agut, they started telling you that
you look like a slut too.

(56:30):
Oh, so it's never changed much.
Yes, exactly.
And so it's literally beengoing on since ancient Egypt.
You there.
No way.
You can't win.
You can't win.
And that's what I tell.
I tell especially my son,because he.
He's.
He's entering the music industry.
And it's really hard now withsocial media because everybody bashes

(56:50):
everybody.
It.
You can be the best thingever, and somebody's gonna make up
something or.
Find something because they'renot elevating themselves.
Correct.
So I tell her, make it for you.
Make you for you, and you'llfind at least one person that likes
it, and that's good, you know,and if you find 10, 20, 50, a thousand,

(57:12):
whatever.
But you're to find that evenif it's one person, that's a person
who probably really needed itbecause they couldn't find it anywhere
else.
And they.
Maybe they were on the vergeof giving up, you know, and they
needed to hear your.
I just want to go back reallyquick because I feel bad for saying
the words and slut, but I wasjust saying it not because I thought

(57:32):
they were whores and was.
I was using it as correct.
Yes.
Okay.
Just making sure youunderstood where I came from.
I know Sam knows me, and thankyou, Nikki, for understanding me.
You want to call me a hoe on aFlirtus, whatever.
I know I am.
I'll join that bandwagon.
I. I literally said to one of.

(57:53):
Our recent guests that I waslike, I don't know, I mean, maybe
I want to have that part of my.
I haven't gone to really not.
I kind of want to have all thesex with no strings attached, like.
I wish.
Let me tell you a funny story,because the guy with canal was supposed
to be a one night stand.

(58:14):
We are six and a half years later.
What happened?
I mean, I never had a onenight stand because I'm sensitive.
I still haven't.
I still haven't.
I'm a fucking person.
I am.
And it's so hard.
It's so hard.
It's so hard because it's likemy vagina is attached to my heart.
So.
So, yeah, I just, you know, that's.

(58:34):
That's what it is.
But I was really like, yeah,okay, we're doing this.
I like him enough to just dothis this one time and just walk
away.
Was this like in a bar?
Like, you got.
You like, saw him and you'relike, let's just.
No, he was my son's.
It's a total romance story.
If you want to.
Oh, no, you.
You.
It sounds like you're about totell us that you should have known
it.

(58:55):
Wasn'T going to be from thebeginning to now.
You can.
But if you want this for what.
I do, tell us.
Well, now we have to knowbecause how is it supposed to be
a one night.
He's supposed to be one night.
So my son is a baseballplayer, or was a baseball player,
but all of a sudden he wantsto play basketball.
So I found him this gym wherehis age group.

(59:17):
I think he was 10 at the time.
Yeah, I guess so, because.
Yeah, 11.
So I found this gym where theydid youth fake basketball.
So he played and played and played.
And one day I'm coming in.
I think he was already inthere, but I'm coming in.
And some.
It was a group of kids andsomebody walked past me and I didn't

(59:42):
see who it was, but I felt itbecause I turned around.
What in the hell was.
What was that?
It was so weird.
It was like something just hitmy soul, right?
So.
And I'm trying to look.
I'm seeing almost the top ofhis head because they're like going
downstairs and then it was gone.
So then later I went to thebathroom and there this guy was.

(01:00:03):
And I knew it was him becauseinstantly I just felt that pull.
Yeah.
So I'm like, okay, Nikki, you knew.
It couldn't be a one night stand.
No, you didn't.
You didn't.
You just.
I didn't want it to be one.
But.
But so I came out and then.
This is totally not me.

(01:00:24):
I'm, like, looking at all thelittle trophies and stuff they have,
and I'm, like, trying to waitfor him to get off the phone because
he was on his cell phone.
And I'm, like, trying to get attention.
Like, we've all been there.
I love this right now.
Yeah.
Not paying me any attention.
And I'm like, what are you doing?
So finally he got off thephone, but I heard whoever he was
talking to.

(01:00:44):
I was like, oh, that's a baby mama.
Because I heard it.
And he was just like, okay.
And I loved his demeanor isthis guy.
So when he got off the phone,I acted like I was just getting ready
to go back into the gym.
I was like, oh, baby mama drama.
He goes, oh, sorry about that.
And I went into the gym.
I went in all that just tohang that there.
So hilarious.

(01:01:05):
But you got seen.
You got seen.
So.
But he was just.
He just a little bit.
You know how guys are oblivious.
Yeah.
So then basketball season is over.
But what's crazy, I get aphone call.
My son has never playedbasketball before.
All of a sudden, oh, he's onthe all star team.
Very athletic, though.
And the all star team.

(01:01:27):
Get to the first practice.
Guess who the coach is.
Next.
Tv.
All right, it's that guy again.
I did my best to stay awayfrom him because he made me feel
all kind of weird, like.
So it's like, you love it, butit's also uncomfortable.

(01:01:47):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So.
But then, you know, and he.
He would say he wanted to comesee Nick play baseball, blah, blah,
blah.
And then the season ended, andI'm like, well, thank God Big was
a lot.
I don't even know what thehell happened there.
Done.
Next season, the boy wants toplay basketball again.
Okay, we know where we're going.
Go.
Didn't like, the coach.

(01:02:07):
And my car had broken down, sowe were taking Ubers and lifts there.
And the coach wasn't good.
So I'm like, yeah, I'm notgonna be paying $60 to get you somewhere
that's not happening.
So I get a phone call, andthey're like, hey, we split up the
teams.
We have a new coach.
Come on down.
Your coach is Coach Ariel.
Let's go.
And I'm like, okay.

(01:02:28):
So we get out.
I'm like, we love Coach Ariel.
We get down there.
And I see him and I'm like.
He goes, hey.
He hugs me and I'm like, okay,you can't really.
And he goes, is Nick on my team?
I go, no, he's on Ariel's team.
He goes, that's my team.
That's my team.
He's all excited.

(01:02:48):
That's awesome.
So they played.
Anyway, here's what happened.
We're at their one night stand now.
So, yeah, give us the good stuff.
No, I'm just kidding.
So he had dropped me off and Igot out of the car and I went down
because we had gone.
Long story short, he wanted totake me home.
And I'm like, no, just drop usat the store or whatever for while

(01:03:10):
the car.
And I leaned down to say thank you.
And he's like, you're welcome.
But it was like, you're welcome.
And I'm like, okay, it's notjust me.
So I closed the door and Itold my son.
I was like, I told you coachliked me.
He was like, mom, get out of here.
Right.
So then they were supposed tohave a practice that later in the
week.
Well, now that we had thatkind of exchange, I did not want

(01:03:32):
to call him to verify becausethen it was going to be like, I'm
calling like, because I like you.
So can you check yes or no?
Yeah.
Right.
So I'm like, I called Jim andI was like, do you know?
They're like, no, you have tocall Coach Ariel.
Okay.
Coach Ariel didn't answer.
And I'm like, damn, here we go.
So I texted him.
I was like, hey, coach, areyou guys having practice today?

(01:03:54):
And the phone rang in themoment and I said.
I literally said out loud,here we go.
Oh.
And he called and I said, hello.
He goes, hey, yes.
So no, we're not havingpractice today.
I was like, okay, thank you.
He's like, so, what are youdoing later?
Oh, And I was like, making up stuff.
I'm like, oh, I'm gonna gohave drinks, you know, across the

(01:04:15):
street.
Because there was this baracross from my house and it was just
casual.
I was just like, you know, Ithink I'll come join you.
So he came, we closed the bar down.
I think we had three dates inone night.
Wow.
And.
And to the point where I waslike, you know what?
Why not?
I mean, why not?
I'll just try this.
Because it's whatever.
Yeah, We've been together eversince, so.

(01:04:37):
Money.
I love how, like, chill and,like, nonchalant you were about getting
his attention because thereWas definitely like a moment where
I was like, yeah, one night stand.
That sounds fun.
I've never done that.
I still haven't really.
I don't think that might belike your vacation.
And I remember I was at thisclub and I just really tall guys,

(01:04:59):
like, they just, I don't know,I just draw drops.
And so I was at this club anddancing and I called him Biceps because
he was so tall that all likehis biceps were eye level with me.
And so I just like kept likewalking and then I'd like, you know,
I had my drink and I trippedand like bumped into like.
Oh.
And I squeezed the bicep and Ikept walking.
And then nothing, you know,nothing came out of that.

(01:05:21):
So then later I like bumpedinto him again.
Be like, we just keep bumpinginto each other.
And so then we start dancing together.
He's like, let's dance.
And we're dancing and.
And then I finally look up andlike look at its face.
And like I was like, okay,this isn't what I thought I was.
You know, space.
That's hilarious.
And then you're back by the biceps.

(01:05:43):
Yeah, yeah.
And then I looked at his facelike, oh, you're really not, not
my type like at all.
And, and.
But I went that long withoutlooking his face.
She could go the rest of the night.
Yes.
No.
And then we like were chithangs out like, okay, this is fine,
like just some more drinks andit'll be fine.
And all he talks about is thegym and like lifting and like, you

(01:06:06):
know, I'm into thebodybuilding and you know, I just,
okay.
I just can't, I can't think ofseriously anymore.
So it did not work out for me.
That is so funny.
Say the same still with this guy.
And I know that's amazing.
He's my everything.
So I'm wondering like, okay,so had you had you had is here first

(01:06:29):
like super healthyrelationship or you'd already kind
of like.
No, definitely, definitely.
Because my marriage, I wasmarried to my son's dad and that
was the worst thing ever.
He devastated my life.
Literally.
Like literally.
So that's why it was going tobe a one night stand.
Because I hadn't been withanybody since my ex husband but I

(01:06:52):
just was not willing to get ina relationship because at this point
the first guy with this bookis about the ones in between and
then the marriage, it's allbeen bad.
Yeah.
So yeah, let's just do this,knock this out.
Because I haven't knocked it out.
So it hasn't been knocked out.
So let's just do this.

(01:07:12):
And then.
And when I tell you, I'venever in my entire life met anybody
like him.
So what do you think?
What do you think you weredoing differently at that time in
your life to either draw himor accept it?
Accept it.
Yeah.
I.
You know, honestly, I justthink it was time.

(01:07:34):
I think.
I think the stars aligned atthe right time.
I really do.
That's the only thing I have,because I'm still me, you know, I.
I haven't.
I've always been this awesome person.
Yeah, clearly.
Ma', am, it wasn't me.

(01:07:56):
While we're talking aboutrelationships, I think that a lot
of us, and most of us that arelistening, and Melissa and I here,
like, have gone through thetrauma of, you know, poor relationships,
like, back to back.
How you meet this guy, you're,like, head over heels.
You feel this, like, reallystrong connection.
How long into thatrelationship before you just, like,

(01:08:16):
bear your soul of, like, thisis my past.
This is everything I went through.
Because I think that.
That, you know, might helpsome listeners, you know.
Okay, so I told you I felt himbefore I saw him.
Yeah, but we've clearly.
And I never believed in thisstuff before, but we've clearly been
together in some otherlifetimes because it's been so, so

(01:08:39):
magnetic.
We bear it all.
That first day, you know, weat that bar, we came down.
I mean, he's told me things.
He even said, I've never toldanybody this stuff.
Same thing he said to me.
We were talking aboutsomething, and he goes, talking about
my hair or something.
And he goes, I could care lessif you had two strands of hair on
your head.
He said that on our.
And.
And, you know, I'm like, isthis guy for real?

(01:09:01):
But he was for real.
Like, everything that wascoming out of his mouth was for real.
And I told him everything.
He told me everything.
And it was all laid out.
Wow.
Then and there.
Yeah.
Has he ever, like, told you,like, he felt.
He felt that magnetic pulledas well?
He's a guy.
You never would.
They don't feel that.

(01:09:22):
No, I'm just kidding.
He went, huh?
Oh, you did.
Hold on.
But what.
What has happened?
Because, you know, I just feltat some point in our relationship,
things weren't going the way Iwanted it to go.
And I've had.
That's another thing I had tolearn about people lovingly.

(01:09:42):
I love out loud.
He doesn't love out loud.
So I was taking him, notloving out loud, not loving me.
So I broke up with him acouple times.
But what's so hilarious,because I'm very much me.
I will not call you back.
It's over.
I'm done.
And he's.
He seems like he's that typeof guy too.
But he kept calling back thelast time.

(01:10:04):
He was like, you don't knowhow much you hurt me when you do
that.
And for him to just reallykind of express how he felt someone
like that, it was like, okay,let me try to understand him a little
bit better.
And I was like, everythingthat he's done has been loved.
It's just not the way us girlswant it to be sometimes, you know?

(01:10:28):
Yeah.
He.
Now that I've reframed how Isee him loving me, we're all good.
That's awesome.
That's amazing.
And that's very normal of the relationship.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you're working.
Oh, yeah, sorry.
Oh, I was just gonna sayyou're working on a new record.

(01:10:49):
I think you were about to saythis to Melissa, because I just heard
it in my head.
I think I said it out loud.
No, Melissa, I heard it in my head.
You're.
You're working on a new record.
Does this record have anythingto do with now the love story and,
like, the flow through that always?

(01:11:09):
It does.
It's called this Cathedral is Mine.
And what that is?
Power.
That's poetic.
Yeah.
And so it's really basicallyeverything we've been talking about
about self love and honoring yourself.
Holy cow.
Is it going to be a record?
Good, because I'm going toneed, like, lots of stories on it.

(01:11:33):
This Cathedral is Mine.
Like, that is so.
I don't know what I love about that.
It's just so powerful and poetic.
Like, are you talking, like,the cathedral of being in a place
of knowing your worth andloving yourself?
I'm the cathedral.
That's what I thought.
I belong to me and I want totake care of me and the video concept,

(01:11:54):
because I'm already working onthe video concept.
Will be in a church.
I'll kind of give some of it away.
The love interest kind ofcoming, walking towards the cathedral.
But there's.
At the.
At the base of the stairs is aline of white salt, which is purity
that he can cross.
Whoa.

(01:12:15):
That's beautiful.
Because even though.
Even if he is the perfectpartner, you still have to have those
boundaries.
Yeah.
Wow.
Oh, I'm excited.
Me too.
When do you think it might drop?
You don't know?
When can we.
So we have a studio on the house.
Okay.
Okay.

(01:12:36):
And my Boy is a little slowwith recording me, but soon.
But no, we're.
I'm.
I'm anticipating January.
Okay.
January.
I want to just drop everythingnew, so.
By the way, I.
When I heard your songs back.
Whatever.
A couple months ago, Ifollowed you on Spotify, so I'm going
to go back and find you again.

(01:12:56):
Awesome.
Oh, so you definitely did hear.
I heard it, and I just forgotbecause I'm human.
I got overshadowed with theother song that I loved.
I love that.
Oh, my gosh.
I had a great question, andthen it just flew.
No, you didn't do it.
It was my brain.
It's Sunday.
It is Sunday, right?
I think so, yeah.

(01:13:20):
Oh, okay.
I have it.
It came back to me.
You clearly, like, especiallywith your music, are very open with
your kids about, you know,where you started and the journey
that you come through.
How do they respond to that?
Because a lot of that's really personal.
There's not one aspect of mylife that they don't know about,

(01:13:41):
and I think it just brings us closer.
It makes them tell meeverything, even things I don't want
to hear.
Right.
But, you know, there are nosecrets between us.
At least that I know of.
But, I mean, they've come tome with some very deep things, but.
Because, you know, yeah, it's trust.

(01:14:02):
I'm not.
I'm not here to judge, youknow, be your mom and help you and
the right decision, you know,the best decision that you can out
of the situation.
But I think they know, and I'man open book.
I.
As you can see, I.
But I've been raped.
They know about that.
The guy that this book isabout came after me with a gun.

(01:14:24):
Wow.
He got pregnant by him and hesaid, kill it or kill.
Kill it or I'll kill you.
Oh, gosh.
And so I don't have that childbecause of him, but we honor that
baby.
His name is Micah, and my kidsknow about it.
And my daughter talks abouthim like, he's here all the time,
so he's with us.

(01:14:44):
So I think it's just importantto be transparent, you know, with
what you're comfortable with.
Me, I don't care, like,because I don't care what people
think about me.
It's like, I really don't.
I think it's important,though, like, you say with what you're
comfortable with, but I thinkthat's part of it is, too.
Even some of the stuff you'renot comfortable with.
I think it's important to try to.

(01:15:06):
Yeah.
So I think that's how you havethat level of trust with them.
I mean, because if mom gotchased by a gun and was threatened
in all this and had anabortion by force, then I can tell
her anything because she'll.
You know what I mean?
So there.
There are no secrets that Iknow of.
I've heard some really deepstuff from my children.

(01:15:28):
Wow, that's amazing.
I like that you use the word transparent.
I just met someone and was outwith dinner with them, and I don't
remember what brought up theconversation, but we were talking
about the difference betweentransparency and honesty and how,
you know, you can be honestwith someone.
Like, if they ask a question,you can tell them the truth.

(01:15:50):
And that's great, and that's,you know, we got some trust there.
But transparency is when youjust flat out come out and give it
to someone and they don't evenhave to ask.
And you're just being thattransparent with them.
That it's like this, like,Soul Connector, I guess, is kind
of like, how weird.
It's more giving in a way, too.
And.
Yeah, I'm glad you're puttingthat out.
I like it a lot.

(01:16:11):
I thought it was so cool.
And so it's really, like.
I don't know.
When she said transparent, Iwas like, oh, my God.
Someone just like, kind ofexplained this to me, like.
And that sounds like it wasimportant to you and.
And worked for you and your kids.
Yeah, I mean, I just.
I am me, and I'm okay with allthe things.
Because, listen, all thesethings that I've been through, good
and bad and made me, you know,so when you ask, how are you, you.

(01:16:36):
I can't leave out the hard stuff.
That's true.
It's, you know, it's how I gotto be needs.
It's my strength.
It's my.
My when I'm hard and when I'mrigid, when I'm soft, it's all of
that, you know, you can't.
Well, how did you get to be sohard and strong?
Well, let me tell you aboutthis relationship that I went through,
you know, And I can't leavethat part out, because that part

(01:16:57):
that, you know, that was the.
The what?
Fire to the iron, whatever itis, but just strengthening me, you
know, to me, unbreakable.
So I, for me, is just important.
And I don't mind telling thesestories because it's somebody out
there listening, watching,whatever that's like, damn, I went
through that.
And, you know, I always tellmy kids, give yourself some grace,

(01:17:21):
because that's what I had togive myself grace.
Give yourself grace?
Because we all go throughthings, but we're.
We're so trained to just.
Everything's a secret.
Nobody's supposed to know thatpart about you.
You're supposed to look soperfect and just so this.
Well, I want to look perfectwith my.
With my scars, you know?
Yeah, I feel like it.
You know, I don't know ifyou've ever seen a quilt when you're

(01:17:43):
making and you see the bottom,it's just strings, and you're right.
Do you quilt?
No, but.
Okay.
I don't know if you can seebehind Melissa, but she is a quilter.
She's in a quilt shop.
Oh, yeah.
I was trying to figure that out.
Got it.
No, I don't.
Mine's a big old.
So you.
Yeah, so the underside'salways a mess, and then when you

(01:18:06):
turn it over, it's so beautiful.
But both sides are important.
You can't.
You can't have that beautifulside without that underside.
That's amazing.
I love that you said that.
I might actually share thatwith some of my quilter friends.
I think that's beautiful.
Yeah, because your life islooking like that.
All those different colors allcracked in together and looking funky.

(01:18:26):
Right.
And you have to remember,like, yeah, this is what's happening
right here, right now in this place.
And you can't tell what it is.
It's just looking a mess.
But you step back and you lookat the whole thing.
Right.
Like a quilt.
And it's telling a story or it's.
And it's beautiful.
And it's every part makes it beautiful.
Yep.
Every part.

(01:18:46):
Oh, that's so pretty.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Yeah.
That was, like, a perfect wayto kind of, like, wrap things up.
Yeah.
I love it.
Awesome.
Is there anything, Nikki, thatyou want to talk about, too, or anything
else that we didn't touch on?
Everything.
I told you everything, right?

(01:19:08):
Yeah, we got, like, the whole life.
I like this because it's,like, we got to, like, meet the,
like.
Like, real Nikki, you know?
Like, and if you like what youheard, then, like, obviously go listen
to her music and read her book.
So it's like, this is, like,about you.
This is real.
This is you.
You are real, though.
And that's.
That's why this has been so good.
So thank you.

(01:19:28):
Oh, thank you, thank you,thank you.
I'm glad that we all, like, wemet and got to do this.
Me, too.
All right, well, guys, canfind her book.
Loved you and loved you.
Hate you is a great, reallyfun talking to you.

(01:19:49):
But, yes, it was such apleasure to have you on skirt stuff.
And I don't usually know whenthe episodes are gonna drop, but
yours drops the last Thursdayin October, so.
Which is important becauseit's all about domestic violence.
Domestic violence.
Awareness of that, and.
Yeah.
Knowing we can grow past it.

(01:20:10):
Yes, we can.
Yeah.
Even though, like, I feel like.
Even though it's, like, notwhat the episode was about, like,
it's just getting to knowsomeone who just grew above and beyond
it.
Like, I think that that isjust as important.
I do, too.
Yeah.
I mean, I think it's.
Maybe you don't get stuck init, you know, it's so easy to do.

(01:20:31):
It's so to do, and so manywomen have and still are, so you
can do it.
Give yourself some grace.
That's right.
Ah, that's.
There's the title of the episode.
I love it.
Or, no, we can't do that.
That's the title of your newsong coming out.
We can do it.

(01:20:51):
This Cathedral's Mine is,like, so brilliant.
Yeah.
But anyway, I don't want tosteal that from you.
All right, well, you'reamazing, and.
Thank you.
Thank you.
You guys are amazing.
Yeah.
Well, enjoy the rest of your Sunday.
I will.
Thank you.
You as well.
Thank you.
Bye, Nikki.

(01:21:12):
Bye.
Bye.
Did you like the episode thatyou heard today?
Great.
Share it with a friend.
And don't forget to rate and review.
Sam.