The Dream World Explored, With Amina

In this special episode, we welcome back Amina, our dream coach from Season 1, for another profound conversation about the mysteries and potentials of lucid dreaming. Discover how dreams can be a powerful tool for personal growth and understanding, and listen as Amina shares intriguing insights about persistent dreamscapes, dream research, and communicating within dreams.

Listen to heartwarming tales of how dreams can connect us to our inner selves and even to our ancestors, this episode is packed with enlightening content. Samantha and Melissa also tackle common listener questions about recurring symbols in dreams, the metaphysical side of lucid dreaming, and how shared dream experiences might suggest broader connections within our consciousness.

With highlights like Samantha’s recurring orca dreams and experiences with dream journaling, and Amina’s groundbreaking participation in dream research studies, this episode offers a fascinating blend of personal anecdotes and scientific exploration.

Tune in to learn about the intersection of dreams and spirituality, the ethical implications of dream sharing, and the ways in which lucid dreaming can lead to profound self-discovery. Whether you're a seasoned dreamer or new to the concept of lucid dreaming, this discussion promises to expand your understanding and spark your curiosity. Don't miss out on this captivating episode that promises to take you on a journey through the dream world and beyond.

Subscribe now and make sure to rate and review the show! Your feedback helps us bring more compelling content to the Skirts Up community.

• Learn more about us: https://www.theskirtsupshow.com/
• Follow along Amina and her own podcast, Dream World: https://thedreamworldpodcast.com/
• Inquire to be our next guest via, podmatch: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/skirtsup

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hey, you.
You're tuned in to the Skirtsup show with Samantha and Melissa.
Join our mission to normalizefailure, but still uncover the positives
at every twist and turn.
Skirts up, but keep yourpanties on.
What's up?
Skirts up squad.
Did you just take my line?
I did.

(00:24):
It's Melissa and Samantha.
This is weird.
I love that you just threw meoff with that.
That's so funny.
And your face, too.
You're like, I did that?
That's hilarious.
That was so good.
I actually expected to throwyou off, but then when it did, that
was extra funny, you know, itthrew me.
Off in a good way because Iwas like, oh, she did.

(00:45):
She just did this.
That's right.
Her face was so cute.
Oh, my God.
Hi, guys.
So we are here to share.
What are we going to share today?
You want to go first for me?
Oh, our fails, actually.
Yeah, I'll.
I'll go because I. I feel.
I'm very proud at thebeginning of this mall, I guess the

(01:06):
beginning of last week.
Yeah, I had a complete meltdown.
I was like, oh, man.
I just.
I feel like we're getting tothe point where it's time to dwindle
down.
Skirts up.
I think that we're hitting a wall.
And I think that we had, youknow, so much support in the beginning,
and maybe we don't have thatsupport now.
And I just was having thatrealization of, oh, maybe this isn't

(01:27):
what.
You were scared it had run its course.
Yes.
And I wasn't ready for it to.
And I felt defeated and like.
Like a failure, I guess,because I've just poured so much
of myself into this.
Well, I'm like, maybe it'stime to have that conversation.
How do we.
What are we going to do?
Yeah.
And little did I know Melissawas, you know, wanting to.
Maybe we should have this conversation.

(01:49):
Well, I actually felt it from you.
Oh, yeah?
Yeah.
I thought maybe you were kindof getting to the end and were afraid
to say it.
And I wanted to tell you thisis before I found out, but I wanted
to tell you that, look, ifthat's okay, if this is the end,
that is okay.
Yeah.
Because we had fun while wedid it, and all good things come

(02:09):
to an end and we moved tobigger and better things.
I didn't want to have thatconversation, but I was prepared
to.
Like, I was about there.
I was really, really, really upset.
What's funny is that threedays later, our numbers skyrocketed.
We have just endless people.
Guests wanting to be on the show.

(02:30):
And speak not Just out of the.
Blue, we got picked up by asmall network pod match.
So thank you for that.
And that really has just.
We've gotten further out thanwe thought possible in such a small
amount of time.
And it's just been reallyamazing and I'm so thankful.

(02:50):
And it just kind of likeboosted our.
Our mood of like, oh, yeah, weare doing great stuff.
You guys are loving it.
And now we have even more listeners.
Yeah.
So it's pretty amazing becauseit's like we got into this because
we wanted to make.
Have a reach and make a difference.
Right.
We didn't want to just likeget on here and talk for no reason.
Talk to ourselves.

(03:11):
Yeah.
To our friends that we canpick up a phone.
Exactly.
Like, we wanted to talk to you guys.
And we were worried that weweren't reaching you.
And we were reminded that we are.
Yeah.
And it felt really good.
And yeah, all the sweet wordsand kind words have been really uplifting.
So thank you guys.
And we will be continuing.
And season four will be bigand amazing.

(03:34):
We say that every year, but I.
Feel like this school is going to.
Because we're only getting better.
Yeah.
Yeah, we are.
Yeah.
We're learning a lot.
Not just about ourselves, butalso about how to like, get.
Pull in the people that wewant on here and how to talk to them.
There's so many differentthings that we.
Want to put out too.
It's just kind of all come together.
I agree.
But I say all that is becausemy fail was we have this great thing.

(03:58):
It got hard.
I was ready to quit and justgive it up.
And then bam, beautifulness happened.
It did.
Because you didn't give up.
I know.
So I'm going to throw in onemore thing.
So the pod match was your lastditch effort.
You said, I'm just gonna try this.
Yeah.
I really thought this isn'tgonna do anything, but whatever,
let's just try it.

(04:19):
So she basically reached out,did the thing to get us connected
with them.
Actually, they reached out to us.
And then you did the thing.
Yeah.
And I. Yeah, I wasn't gonnafill out the.
The forms and stuff that theysent because I was like, this is
just not gonna help, but.
Hello.
So basically you didn't give up.
That's.
That's the thing.
Like you.
That's our success and throughthe fail.

(04:40):
Yeah.
So thank you, Sam.
Well.
Okay.
You guys want to hear mine?
It's dumb and silly and cuteand fun.
Yes.
Okay.
So you all know I went and didthe boudoir photo shoot with One
Sil.
Boudoir.
It's not my hair.
Fail.
Oh, tell me more.
I know Sam.
She's trying to micromanagewhat I talk about.

(05:02):
Shut up.
Okay, tell me more.
I'm going to.
Okay, tell me more.
Y'.
All.
Okay.
Something annoying.
I'm sorry.
I had too much coffee.
No, you're fine.
It's hilarious.
You're hilarious.
They're all laughing so hard.
Just kidding.
Okay, so.
Okay, so I went to once a boudoir.
And what we do is like, a lotof times, like, they'll.

(05:25):
They.
They always talk with youbeforehand, like, what do you want
out of this shoe?
What do you want it to look like?
And then they'll pull thingsto kind of, like, close.
Close, clothing wise.
And you can bring your ownclothes for the shoot to kind of
like, match that aesthetic.
Well, one of the things that.
And then sometimes they'llpull their own ideas, too.
They have a really cool.

(05:47):
What's it called?
Wardrobe.
No.
Well, they do.
They have a cool wardrobe.
No, Remember what they have?
They have different sets thatthey set up.
They have a set right now thatthey're calling Cloud 9.
Oh, yes.
And it just looks like you'relaying on a bunch of white fluffy
pillows, and there's, likesheer white curtains and stuff like
that.
So David had the idea becauseI wanted to be pinup style.

(06:09):
And so I had bright redlipstick and I had, like, a fair
face and my hair is dark.
And so he had the idea to putme in white and do Cloud 9.
Well, immediately I had a badreaction to it, and I realized it's
because white has such a huge.
Plays such a huge role in theMormon Church.
It's just all about purity andsanctity and all of that.

(06:32):
And I kind of was like, Iwanted to throw up a little in my
mouth.
Wait, are you serious?
Like, it was literally aphysical negative.
Like, oh, I don't want to do this.
We're getting out.
So he brought in this.
The thing I said, I don't wantto wear that.
I'm not going to wear that.
And they're like, why?
And I was like.
And then I had to actuallythink about it.
And that's the worst.
When someone's like, well, whyare you acting that like that?

(06:54):
Or where is that coming from?
And you don't know.
You have to think about it.
Well, yes, it can be theworst, but it actually was good because
it made me kind of go, like, why?
I don't know why?
And then the more I thoughtabout it and Then they left the room,
they came back, and I waslike, it's because of this.
And here's the thing.
I don't hate the Mormon Church.
I did.

(07:14):
There's some.
I. I think.
Is that.
Is resentment too strong of a word?
Like, maybe you resent.
Yeah, I. Yeah, you could say I could.
Yes.
You could say I resented.
There's some resentment there.
There's some trauma there.
There's just true religious trauma.
And that could be with any church.
So I'm not trying to just callout the Mormon Church because I also

(07:35):
have friends and family whoare still very active, and that's
what they need in their life.
Okay.
Just had to put thatdisclaimer out there.
Every time I talk about thechurch, I feel like I need to.
That being said.
Yeah.
I did not wanna wear thewhite, and I didn't wanna feel like
I was walking into the temple.
Wow.
And so David left the.
They came back.
I explained, you know what?
I think this is why I'mfeeling that way.

(07:56):
And then he came back and he'slike, what about if we put a red
boa around your neck?
And I was like, ooh, interesting.
Interesting.
Like, you mean like a fuck you?
And he was like, yeah.
And I was like, okay, I couldget on board with that.
And so we did it.
I'm not going to say they weremy favorite photos.
I don't even know.

(08:17):
I think I kept one photo fromthat particular set.
But it was just.
What it made me realize issometimes we just have to reframe
things to fit the narrativethat we're happy and comfortable
with.
Yes.
And so it could have been afail, but it was like trying something
new.
And I think it was like, theexact example of why we talk about

(08:38):
fails or things.
Because I tried something newthat I wasn't really loving.
And then, you know what?
We were able to kind ofreframe it.
Well, first was able to takethe time to think about, like, why.
Oh, you're right.
That's exactly.
I mean, and then that leadsinto, like, okay, well, now here's
the why.
How can we make this right?
You're right.

(08:59):
Because if you don't thinkabout how you're feeling and why
you're feeling the way you'refeeling, you're just gonna have all
these emotions that are like.
Right.
And then people are like,well, what's wrong with you?
And it's like, well, what'swrong with you?
Exactly.
No, I mean, really, like, why?
Like, why?
Why?
Let's get some introspection.
Going on.
And so I was able to do thatbecause I had supportive people around

(09:21):
me.
That is wild.
I know.
I. Wow.
I love that.
I thought you might like that one.
Yeah.
Because it's an interesting connection.
Like, they do take so muchtime to get to know you and, you
know, and what you want and,you know, triggers.
So that nothing happens duringa shoot.
Yep.
And it's kind of cool that.

(09:42):
Okay, a trigger did happenduring the shoot, and then they also
just rolled with it.
Yeah, exactly.
So that's actually really,really, really cool of David and
Jill and, you know, not coolthat you went through that, but it's
cool.
It was cool.
It was able to.
It was able to kind of see, like.
Yeah.
So anyways, it's interesting,but yeah, getting in touch with our

(10:02):
feelings and beingintrospective and being able to understand
why we're feeling what we'refeeling and how we can work with
it.
I thought that was all very interesting.
Well, speaking of feelings,today we're doing a second episode
with Aminah.
You guys had a very strongconnection with her when we had her
on our sec.
First season.
Our first season.

(10:23):
Holy smokes.
Our first season.
And she taught us about luciddreaming and walked us through what
dreams can mean and how we canuse our dreams to improve ourselves
and work on parts of our livesthat we need it.
And I was going through thisperiod, period where this one thing
kept popping up in my dreamsand I just really couldn't make sense

(10:43):
of it.
And some of you had morequestions revolving around dreams.
And so we had her back on.
And this is just another deepconversation, Deep dive of dreams.
Truth is, we could have her on again.
Oh, yeah.
We could talk forever.
We might.
We might have some favoritereoccurring guests like Melissa Walker.
Amina.

(11:04):
Oh, Amina, are we going tostart mentioning you every episode
like Melissa Walker?
Maybe we might.
That's where we are.
We pretty much love you.
So.
Yeah.
So everybody enjoy.
And it's Amina again from thedream world.
Today we have with us Amina.
She joined us in season oneand talked and taught us about lucid

(11:29):
dreaming and how we couldbasically train ourselves to experience.
Experienced that.
I have yet to do that.
And she is back on to clarifyon some questions that you guys had.
And plus, we want to catch upwith her.
Absolutely.
And don't forget, we found herbecause she has her own podcast.
Yes.

(11:49):
Called the Dream World with.
With Amina.
Or is it just the dream World?
Yeah, just the Dream World podcast.
Yeah, it's pretty cool.
Guys, so, okay, let's.
Let's catch up.
Let's do it.
What's going on?
Yeah.
I'm so excited.
Good.
Good to see you guys again.
It's been like about a year.
Maybe a lot has happened.

(12:09):
Good things.
Still doing the dream stuff.
Dream coaching, podcasting,you know, conferences for dream research,
which I may have talked about, and.
Yeah, workshops and thingslike that.
I just love.
Yeah.
Continuing to teach people howto lucid dreams and understand their
dreams in general.
Yeah.
So I remember.
And this has been a while,but, like, I want to say, you traveled

(12:31):
to Europe for a conference.
I did, yeah.
Last June.
I was in the Netherlands.
They have a conference thereevery couple years.
Usually it's in the States,but there is a lot of dream researchers
in Europe as well, so theykind of alternate.
This year, it's actuallyonline, which is going to make it
more accessible to people thatthey don't have to travel.
So that's great, right?

(12:51):
That is really nice, actually.
So did you guys do anything?
What did you guys learn?
Or what was the most exciting thing?
Yeah, so just for those thatdon't know, it's called the International
association for the Study of Dreams.
It's like one of the oldest,most established dream research organizations.
We connect with all theseresearchers and scientists, and everything

(13:12):
from the science, the art, andthe spirituality kind of come together
to just kind of show thelatest stuff.
I.
At the Netherlands conferencelast year, I did a workshop for lucid
dreaming.
So every morning I had a groupof people come together and we talked
about our experiences.
It was some beginners, someex, you know, experienced lucid dreamers.
So it was kind of a good mix,and we all just learned from each

(13:33):
other.
There were some awesome presentations.
One of my favorites was oneabout how animals dream and how their
dreaming process is verysimilar to ours.
Yeah, animals, okay.
Not just cats and dogs either.
Like, not just cats and dogs,but like, mice, octopus, even fish.
Like, pretty much every animal.
And how are these fish?
Because I feel like you alwayshear studies that, like, oh, yeah,

(13:56):
elephants and octopus and miceand rats, they're so smart.
And fish, they don't havefeelings, they're so dumb.
Like, that's just like, whatyou hear.
But how are they studying this?
Yeah, I mean, I'm not sureexactly which animals that this specific
study worked on, but somepeople are definitely starting to
look into it.
Just studying animals brainswhile they sleep.
And, you know, they found thatthey have similar purposes for dreaming

(14:19):
as we do.
You know, processing dailyemotions, consolidating memories,
planning out for the future.
Like one study with rats.
The rats would sleep on it andplan out the maze and then they would
be able to do the maze betterand things like that.
So very similar to our purpose.
And.
Yeah.
Although it's not proven forsure, I'm pretty sure that some animals
even have the capability tolucid dream as well.

(14:42):
Wow.
And of course, they can't,like, tell us, like, oh, yeah, I
had a dream.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
But, you know, you see yourdog running.
My dog.
Yeah, that's true.
I was gonna say if my dogWaverly was still alive, she could
tell me.
Please talk.
But what?
No, that would be interestingbecause there are the animal.

(15:04):
Psychic animal communicators.
Yeah.
And so I wonder if we could like.
If there's like a reputableone that could kind of speak on that.
Absolutely.
That would be kind of interesting.
I got you.
I'll get us one.
Yeah, I love that.
Thanks for sharing.
Yeah.
And that was just one of thepresentations that I remember that
stuck to me.
There were so many differentthings, so many different studies

(15:24):
that have been done.
And it's not just about lucid dreaming.
It's about dream analysis.
It's about different kinds of dreams.
You know, the.
The metaphysical stuff and thestuff that we have more material
data for.
So it was a really fun, reallyawesome conference.
That's amazing.
That was one of the thingsthat I started wondering.
I actually did not realizewhen we met you the first time, that

(15:46):
lucid dreaming kind of fellonto the meta.
Metaphysical.
Metaphysical side of thingsuntil I was talking kind of.
What?
Yeah, no, go ahead, go ahead.
What's your feelings on that?
Well, so it is and it isn't,you know, because back in the day,
maybe 10, 20 years ago, itwasn't as well understood.
But today, I mean, we havescientific proof for lucid dreaming.

(16:08):
We've studied brains in thelab while people have been lucid
dreaming.
So we know the, you know, thebrainwave activity, the.
The physiological markers ofwhat's going on while we're lucid.
So lucid dreaming is prettyscientifically established as a real
thing.
You know, there are still somepeople that have never experienced
it.
So maybe they're like, I don't know.
I can't really understand the concept.
But it's scientifically a fact.

(16:28):
It's a thing.
There are more anomalous typesof dreams that are more metaphysical,
such as, like, shared dreamingand dream telepathy, communications,
which I also believe.
Okay.
And the thing with luciddreaming is it can get very spiritual
and Metaphysical like you canhave these awesome spiritual growth
experiences and transformative dreams.
So it does get a little spiritual.

(16:49):
But having a lucid dreamitself, like we don't have any doubt
about that, if that makes sense.
I guess it was some of thefeedback that I had gotten personally
is that we had some peoplestop following us because their religious
beliefs found that luciddreaming was basically a form of.
Against the Bible.

(17:10):
And so I was like, wow, Ireally had no idea.
I'm sorry, I would love totalk on this actually because I.
Come please.
Yeah, I, I have nothingagainst religions or anything.
You know, I'm open toeverybody but I understand that this
is a common narrative that alot of people are scared of lucid
dreaming if they don'tunderstand it.
But you know, if we'respeaking on like Christianity for

(17:31):
example or even otherreligions, dreams are spoken in the
Bible multiple, multiple over200 times.
And lucid dreaming as well.
People get visions from God intheir lucid dreams and like it's
in the Bible a lot of timesbut a lot of them in their ways.
Exactly.
Prophets and different,different types of dreams.
Joseph was a dreaminterpreter, very pronounced one

(17:51):
for the Egyptian pharaoh andthings like that.
He was so yeah, some peopleare just very close minded.
They don't understand, theydon't understand that there's more
out there, you know.
But lucid dreaming is natural.
And so that's why I saidabout, you know, it's scientifically
proven because it's a natural thing.
It's our birthright, you know,it's our God given right if you want
to get spiritual with it.
But people, people reporthaving positive experiences from

(18:13):
this type of stuff and likesure bad dreams can happen but I
don't know, I guess if you'rea religious person maybe you should
think of it in a way that it'sjust something that's going to bring
you closer to your spiritual journey.
That's how I would say it too.
I love that because I.
So I was really confusedbecause I grew up in a super religious
like kind of maybe sheltered,you could say household.

(18:35):
Definitely sheltered accordingto Sam.
But anyway I was thinking,wait, how is lucid dreaming against
someone's religion?
Oh yeah, because you wereshocked when I brought that up.
I was so shocked because Icame from like again religious.
But I could.
It's Christianity and I wouldhave said like wait a minute, but

(18:55):
what's the difference betweenlike trying to get in touch with
yourself and like, and yourown dreams and like why can't you
believe that that's maybe evenGod talking to you.
I just don't understand.
It would be.
So what makes it so easy torationalize that?
Like, oh, no, I'm just openingmyself up to, like, let the spirit
talk to me and.
But yeah, no, that's interesting.

(19:16):
So I like and think the thingthat you said that kind of stuck
out to me was they don'tunderstand it.
And I think things that peopledon't understand can be scary, for
sure.
And you literally said exactlywhat I have, like, tried to explain
to people.
So it makes me feel a littlemore validated because I don't know
the Bible very well.
But, like, literally I knowthat there's prophets.

(19:37):
And what's the differencebetween a prophet telling you the
future by dreams?
Like, yeah, and I forgot thatJoseph actually, that's how he got
out of his imprisonment waswith the Pharaoh.
Like, he interpreted the dream.
You're right.
I totally forgot about that.
Yeah.
Dreams have been around foreons, literally.
So it's, it's right.
And how are you supposed to,like, not.

(19:59):
Yeah, I think you're right.
And then, like, how.
My guess what I was going tosay was how do you control yourself
to not dream?
I just don't understand.
You can.
I mean, it's definitely apractice and I think that's why a
lot of people are scared.
Because dream, dream workpractices in general give a lot of
the responsibility to, to the individual.
Right.
You know, you're trusting in yourself.

(20:19):
You're guiding yourselfthrough the universe so you can experience
positive things, negativethings, like you're in charge, really.
So maybe that's kind of scaryfor some people.
But if somebody has a lot ofdreams that they're maybe haunted
by or stressed out by, or theydon't feel like they're getting well,
well enough rest.
There's a lot of things youcan do to kind of mediate that to
either shift your dreamcontent to more positive dream content

(20:41):
by really diving into thatscary dream content, which, again,
not a lot of people want to do.
Not a lot of people want toacknowledge the dreams in order to
transform them.
And you can also set theintention for restful dreamless sleep,
which some people do.
So there's, there's definitely ways.
But I always encourage peopleto start writing down your dreams
and figure out what are theytrying to tell you?
Like, what is yoursubconscious, you know, repeating

(21:03):
to itself over and over thatyou need to address or heal or work
on or whatever it is?
There's always a lesson therewith dreams, even nightmares, they
have healing gifts.
Yeah, I would say so.
You know how we always have afail at the beginning of our episodes?
That's my fail.
Meeting with you again todayand remembering like, shoot.
I really, really wanted to doa dream journal and I never even

(21:24):
started it in this whole last year.
I actually started a voice journal.
Really?
Uh huh.
Tell us more.
Yeah, it's just like a voice.
So we both have been sayingthat we wanted to journal.
I wanted to journal my normal life.
Plus I wanted to startjournaling dreams and see if I can
like lead into a lucid dream.
And I was like, okay, well theproblem is when I start physically

(21:44):
writing in a journal, my braingoes, oh, that sentence doesn't make
sense.
Oh, how can we rephrase thatto sound better?
And like, then I'm.
This is pointless.
Why am I spending two hourswriting about a fucking dream?
And so then I was like,there's gotta be a voice recorder.
And so my voice recorder, Ijust record what I'm saying.
Like I'm talking to you guysright now.
I like that.
And then I don't have to belike, oh, that doesn't.

(22:06):
I shouldn't write that.
Like, right, I do that too.
It's a great method.
Yeah.
And it transcribes it for youtoo, so.
Yeah, you're right.
Okay.
Is there an app that you useor you just use your.
No, it's an app.
Your notes at.
What's your.
Oh, what is that?
I'll have to look it up.
I can link it, definitely.
That's interesting.
I'm gonna write that down so we.
Don'T forget now before wemove on to like, our next part of

(22:28):
what we have for today, I was wondering.
This just made me kind of think.
Do you have any of thesedebates with other guests on your
podcast about religion aspect or.
I have before.
Yeah.
I mean, I talk about it a lotonline, you know, usually on social
media, comment sections andstuff like that.
I see it a lot.
People are very scared orstuck in their ways.

(22:50):
And I never try to changepeople's beliefs or tell them to
think what I think.
But you know, I just encouragepeople to explore and look into their
dreams and be open minded to it.
And I, you know, of course I'malways going to bring the facts and
the science so that peopleknow it's safe.
You know, I'm not telling youto do anything crazy out here, but
yeah, and on my podcast aswell, I talk about it a lot.
I try to bring experts fromdifferent perspectives.

(23:10):
You know, the science, theArt, the spirituality, all the different
traditions.
And, you know, not justWestern ways to look at dreams.
There's so many different ways.
You're right.
It's got to have a lot ofcultural implications and, like,
from different communities and interesting.
A lot of.
Maybe you could share with us something.

(23:32):
Yeah, I mean, a lot of certainsocieties and cultures have valued
dreams more than the Western world.
Like the Australians,Aboriginals, it was a huge part of
their culture and a lot ofAfrican traditions and different
parts of Asia and Europe.
The Eastern world has a long,long history of dream work and lucid
dreaming that dates back topast ancient Egypt and Aristotle

(23:53):
even.
So, you know, it's been around forever.
And obviously I can't speak onany specific traditions that I don't
necessarily practice, but Ijust encourage people to really look
and do research on all thedifferent ways to look at dreams
because, you know, sciencemight tell you, like, oh, lucid dream.
And, you know, it's theseneurons firing and this is what's
happening in the brain.
And that's all cool and all,but there's other traditions that

(24:15):
apply different meanings todreams than one might, you know,
or different universal symbols.
Dream analysis and also, like,studying other people's.
Studying other people'scultures and stuff also gives us
more of a tolerance.
And not even just tolerance.
That's a very.
It's not strong enough of aword, but it makes us kind of appreciate
each other more, I think.
So I think that's a great idea.

(24:36):
Like, get in there and study.
Because when you saidAustralian, it made me think, oh,
wait, does that have to dowith the walkabouts and finding yourself
and the lucid dreaming?
So I thought, oh, yeah, yeah,this is cool.
I'm gonna go look that up.
But, yeah, I want to go intowhat your.
Yeah.
Question is.
What you do?
Yes, yes, I do.
Because it's.
It was really fascinating.

(24:56):
And yeah, I'm curious.
So that.
Okay, so I guess we're goingto switch gears just a tiny bit then.
I apologize.
But I was looking online andthere's somebody called Daniel Love
who seems like he's been,like, pretty big in the lucid dreaming
world.
And you've probably heard ofhim, I guess.

(25:17):
Yeah, yeah, I've heard of him.
He's pretty popular on YouTube.
Okay.
So basically he said he wastaking questions and answers from
people, and somebody said, howoften do you lucid dream?
And he said, well, you know,I've been doing it for 40 years.
I can do it whenever I want.
And then he added on, like,another sentence.
And he ended with that in theparagraph and went on to something

(25:38):
else.
And I was so confused becausehe said quality is better than quality
over quantity is better for sure.
Which, that I get that.
But what did.
What he said next was it'sbetter to have one logical dream
than a hundred non logical dreams.
And I was like, what makes itlogical or not logical?
I did not understand what thatmeant at all.

(26:00):
Interesting.
And then I see your eyeslooking up a little like maybe I
threw you for a loop.
I'm trying to figure out whathe means by that.
I wasn't in the live orwhatever it was, so I don't know
the full context of what hemeant by that.
Maybe there was explanationthat I'm not getting, but just what
I think he may mean.
So some dreams are morelogical than others.
I wouldn't say one is better.
Better than the other though.

(26:21):
But like whether they're lucidor not, some dreams make sense.
Like I'm at my job and normalthings going on, like, you know,
very realistic, I guess, to mylife, you know.
Typical.
Yeah, Something I would do.
But then there are dreams thatare not logical, you know, like the
storyline doesn't add up andthis is not out of place.
Like I don't really know this person.
My dad is actually my sisterand whatever, you know, like there's

(26:44):
no.
It doesn't really make sense.
And those can be frustratingsometimes because it's hard to really
not only remember them butkind of bring meaning to them.
But I honestly wouldn't saythat one is better than the other
because sometimes I'll belucid and things will just be out
of place and chaos and itwon't make sense and I just go with
it.
I just observe and I just takethe dream for what it is, you know.

(27:05):
So maybe he meant that logicaldreams are easier to understand.
I don't really know what hemeans by logical.
I could be totally wrong andthat's not what he meant at all.
Yeah, it blew my mind becauseI was thinking, well, if it's not
logical and actually you'reblowing my mind because in my.
I've always thought luciddreaming kind of brings logic.
Lucidly dreaming brings the logic.

(27:25):
And so it sounds like no,yeah, okay.
Because I just mean you are aware.
Yeah, lucid just means I knowthat I'm dreaming.
So you could be in anapocalyptic near Neo futuristic city
and you know that you'redreaming, you know, or think of the
weirdest dream you've ever had.
You could just be in Thereknowing that it's a dream, and you're
like, this is crazy.

(27:46):
I'm in some weird simulation,but let's rock with it, you know?
So, yeah, that's okay.
Yeah, thank you.
And that makes sense, though,that maybe he's just talking about
the meaning that could comefrom it, you know, that.
Reminds me that you were.
I saw on social media that youparticipated not too long ago in
a study where you were in alab and had the monitors hooked up

(28:10):
and that you and I rememberyou were recording what lucid dreams
you were having in the.
In the study.
Oh, yeah.
Tell us of what were you trying.
To figure out in that study?
So, yeah, I was a participantin that study.
It was done in Northwestern University.
There is a huge lab of dreamresearchers there.
Shout out to them.
They're awesome.
And I participated.
So I went out there toChicago, and what they were looking

(28:33):
for in this particular studywas about how sounds are incorporated
into our dreams.
So, you know how sometimes youcan hear your alarm or your kid crying
or something, and it makes itsway into your dream sometimes.
So that's kind of what theywere studying.
And they've done a lot of studies.
But I went into the lab, theyhooked me up with, like, EEG monitors
and all these different, like,brainwave sensors and things, and
I spent a night there.

(28:54):
And every time I would have adream, I would report immediately,
like, just speaking it outloud, and they would record it.
They put me in this littlesleep chamber.
It was funny, but it was cool.
I did get lucid in the lab,which I was worried about because.
Just because I've been Luciddreaming for 40.
I'm not 40.
I'm not that old.
20 years.
I was thinking.
I used.
Daniel said 40.

(29:14):
I know I said that aboutDaniel Love.
That doesn't necessarily meanI can do it on command.
Like.
Like, yes.
I have a pretty good idea of,like, when I'll get lucid, but it's
not 100% right?
So I had a thought of, like,oh, if I don't get lucid in the lab,
like, that would be kind of sad.
But, like, it's fine.
It's normal, you know?
But luckily I did.
I had some lucid dreams in the lab.
And what's cool is, you knowwhat they do when they're doing this

(29:36):
type of research is I'masleep, right?
So I'm in a lucid dream, andthey sent me signals, and I heard
the sounds from within thedream, and I was like, oh, perfect.
This is the signal.
So What I did was I go left,right, with my eye, like, left, right,
left, right.
That's the agreed upon signal.
And then the EEG readers cansee when I did that, like, okay,
her eyes went left, right,left, right.
It did the little scale orwhatever it was.

(29:58):
And physical eyes.
Yeah, my actual eyes matchwith what I do in stream.
You can communicate with thesewith muscle twitches and certain
things.
Even Morse code.
It's been done.
You know, you Morse code withyour eyes or whatever.
So then the experimental.
But your eyes were closed.
But they can kind of just tell.
Like, where they're flicking together.
Because they put the brainsensors on my head, so every time

(30:19):
I even moved one little muscleon my face.
Every muscle on my face, theycan read it while asleep.
So if I move it in a dream,it'll usually move in waking life,
and they can see it, so theysent the signal.
Then when they saw that I wasin REM sleep, which is when most
of lucid dreams happen, theywere like, okay, she's in rem.
Send her the signal.
I was in a dream.
I received the signal.

(30:39):
I was like, oh, cool, it worked.
I sent a signal back.
They saw the signal from thelab while I was still sleeping, and
they confirmed, okay, she's lucid.
Because we just saw the signalon the data chart that she gave us.
So we basically did that a few times.
That had to be the coolestthing when you woke up, like, yeah,
I did it.
I have a couple questions, ifyou don't mind.

(31:00):
Yeah, yeah, I know, right?
Because it is.
I went to.
Oh, actually, it reminds me ofthe other day when I did a past life
regression.
Yes.
And I was so scared because Iwas like, what if I'm not gonna,
like, get into the meditation correctly?
So I know that feeling.
But I was gonna say, so theysent sounds in, and then you would

(31:22):
say, hey, I'm hearing the sound.
Are they.
Were they just trying to seeif you would hear it, or are they
trying to see if you're gonnainterpret it in a different way in
your dream?
Oh, that's like.
What if you.
What if something happened inyour dream?
Like, hey, this is what I'm dreaming.
And you didn't actually hearthis or think you heard the sound,
but then what you'redescribing, they're like, oh, that

(31:43):
matches the sound we just played.
She walked into the shop andheard the shop bell.
Exactly.
I think maybe both.
I don't know the exact, like,thing of the study because I was
just a participant, not aresearcher, but I do Know that they
wanted to see if I couldidentify the sound.
So there were differentsounds, and I would have to give
a different signal pattern foreach different sound.

(32:04):
So they wanted to confirm thatI heard the correct sound.
And I think they also wantedto know how it made its way into
the dream.
So, for example, like, one ofthe dreams that I had in the lab,
like, I heard the sound.
It was like a chicken sound,but I also saw, like, a bunch of
chickens on the wall.
So it's funny, like, I didn'tnecessarily hear the sound, but my
brain interpreted it to putthe images.

(32:24):
And I.
So I kind of still told themthat that's what I saw, not even
knowing if it was relevant or not.
And then I even heard in mydream, in the dream, the experimenter
was telling me, like, okay,you don't have to do the signals
anymore.
Like, we got what we needed.
But he wasn't actually sayingthat it was like, a part of the dream.
The dream was just, like,making up its own narrative.
Right.
Because it's going to do that anyways.
And so I remember being closeand thinking, like, I was like, was

(32:46):
that real or was that part ofthe dream?
I don't know.
I'm in the dream.
And then I kept tellingmyself, like, pep talking.
Myself, like, no, he told youwhat it is.
Do what you know you'resupposed to do.
Like, this is the dream tryingto trick you.
And I really had a momentthere where I was, like, about to
lose lucidity because I didn't know.
And then obviously, I woke upand I told him, like, you.
You told me to not do it.
Like, did you really say that?
He was like, no, that was partof the dream.

(33:07):
I didn't say that.
Wow.
So funny.
So I guess you.
So you can lose lucidity ifyou start over and analyzing.
Yeah, in a way, yeah.
Maybe not overanalyzing, butif you get too immersed in the dream
narrative, you're going toforget that you were dreaming and
be like, oh, okay, this isactually real life.
I guess I am awake.

(33:27):
I guess it's time to wake.
I was in the lab in the dream.
So it was confusing to know,is this life or is this.
I remember you saying that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
It was hard to tell.
That is so cool.
I love it.
Yeah.
I'm like, I'm glad we got tohear that.
Did you end up doing anepisode on your podcast right after
it talking about it, or wasthat kind of like, oh, no, this is

(33:48):
for their.
Research, and I want to And I should.
Honestly, I didn't make a fullepisode on that specifically.
I just talked about it withdifferent people on different episodes.
And maybe I would take thatvideo I posted on social media because
it's like a 10 minute videoand maybe I'll just post that.
Yeah, yeah.
Because I would love to leave.
I was trying.
Yeah, I was trying to figure out.

(34:08):
I was trying to figure out.
I'm not, I'm not tech savvy,nor am I social media savvy, but
I was trying to figure out howto share that from you onto our page
so that people could see andlike go to your page.
And I could not figure it out.
So I was like, I can help you.
I can send you the video ifyou want to post it.
Savvy.
But.
Oh, that's nice.
Yeah.
Or you can share the sociallink, whatever works.

(34:29):
Yeah, I also posted it onYouTube if that's easier.
If you want to just post the.
YouTube, I probably would.
What's your YouTube channel?
The dream World podcast.
Yes.
I keep it pretty consistent.
Okay.
Because sometimes you have tolike, you can't get the name you
want.
No, I know.
Yeah, yeah.
That video that you watched,it should be on there.

(34:49):
My experience with.
Here, I'll send you the linkif I have a chat here.
Is there a chat here?
Yeah.
So it might be easier to shareYouTube than Instagram or TikTok
link.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm just not.
Not social media savvy yet.
Oh, yeah, but you're notafraid of learning.

(35:10):
No, and that's the thing.
So.
Okay, Sam, I wanted to bringup something that you were telling
me is we had some people reachout to us and she's, she says she's
not social media savvy, butshe's the one that runs our social
media.
And.
But yeah, so like you.
We had some people reach outto us, apparently.
What was interesting is thatsome people were reaching out and
they're like, hey, do youlike, from the conversation that

(35:32):
you had with Amina, you guyskind of touched on this, but what
about when you're seeingreoccurring symbols?
And so I was like, oh, that'sa good question.
And then what's funny is thatthen I started realizing there is
a very specific symbol that Iwas seeing in every dream, every
other dream.
And I was like, oh, that'sactually a really interesting question.

(35:54):
And I know that our listenerslike examples.
So for me, I was just going.
To say, tell us the story.
What did you dream?
So for me, orcas are showingup in every dream, really?
Oh.
Like, in what way?
Oh, anyway, yeah, it could be.
It could be that we're in theocean and I'm.
I'm, like, apprehensive aboutthe orca, but then whoever I'm with

(36:17):
is just like, oh, let's justdive in and swim.
It could.
One of them that was reallyinteresting was Nora.
So my toddler was standing onthe edge of the water.
So she was standing on theland looking over the water, and
a baby orca swam up to her.
And I was, like, freaking out,trying to pull Nora back, but the
orca and Nora, like, touchednoses, and then, like, I.

(36:40):
That was it.
So stinking magic.
And they just pop up in every dream.
And I'm like, why?
This is so weird.
Okay, well, let's do a littleexercise for it.
There's so many different waysto, like, dive into recurring dreams,
so we can use these orcas asan example.
And we may have done this alittle bit in the other episode.
I can't remember, but we didit a little bit.
Yeah.
So.
Funny part, though.
Let's do it again.
Yeah.
So tell me a little bit about,like, what are orcas to you?

(37:02):
Like, if I was an alien fromanother planet and I have no idea
what an orca is, like, howwould you describe that to me?
Me, orcas, I am obsessed with whales.
Love whales.
I travel to literally observethem and swim with them.
But orcas is actually the onewhale that I do not want to see.
I don't.
Definitely don't want to swimwith it, because I. I don't.

(37:28):
I love humpback whales and orcas.
They obviously have a verydistinctive hunting pattern to separate
the babies from the moms, andthey feast on the babies.
And.
And I just.
I have humpback whales ofhumpback whales.
Yeah.
And so I just.
Orcas and, you know, they'reflipping boats, they're an enemy.
Because you're team humpback.
Yeah.

(37:49):
Okay.
Okay.
So you don't, like, love themnecessarily, although you love.
I don't love killer whales.
They're beautiful, but I don't.
They're not my favorite.
Okay, fair.
And, you see, this is why it'svery important to, like, really dive
into each symbol, like,whatever the recurring symbol is,
because you could Googlesomething online that says, oh, dreaming
of orca means whatever youneed to touch you or your emotions
or whatever.

(38:09):
I just made that up.
Like, I don't know.
But.
And it may or may not resonatewith you because somebody might love
orcas and they Might researchorcas for a living.
And then here you have, youknow, you.
When you're like, ah, they'reall right, you know, so like it might
mean something totallydifferent for you, you know what
I mean?
And then usually yeah.
And depending of course on thedream, like, are they nice in all
the dreams?
Do you feel the same in allthe dreams?

(38:30):
It's kind of like you wereasking like, what, you know, what
do they do in the dreams?
Is it always the same?
Are they big, are they little?
Like, you know, what are thephysical descriptions of it?
And I could go on for like anhour asking you to describe all the
different elements just to seewhat comes up.
It's not because it meanssomething specific, but it's because
I want to see from your ownwords, from the dreamer's words,
what you're saying, you know,so just.

(38:50):
I thought it was interesting.
Yeah, I remember you.
I was just gonna start real quick.
I just remember how youdefinitely said when you're trying
to like help somebody figureout what they're dreaming, you don't
wanna lead them.
And so I remember that.
And so when you're askingthese questions, you're not leading
them, you're just tryingunderstand them.
Exactly.
You don't want to put yourprojections onto them.

(39:10):
You want to see what comes up naturally.
Dreamer.
And you said in your ownwords, the orcas are something you
don't want to see, you know,and this is just one thing you said.
But I would ask a follow upquestion then of like, was there
anything in your life that youdon't want to see or that you see
as the enemy, even thoughmaybe you usually like it or something
like that, I don't know, mayor may not resonate.
But those are kind ofquestions you can start to ask and

(39:31):
start to pair it with yourlife and that dream journal.
I'm glad you've been doing itbecause that'll definitely help.
And then you can see.
How often do the orphas show up?
Do they show up up on acertain day?
Do they show up when you'refeeling a certain way?
You know, you can start tolike notice these patterns and you're
really just like studying itfor yourself.
And, and it's not aboutgetting a solid answer, it's just
about learning like what thedream's trying to tell you and maybe

(39:52):
it'll make sense later on.
So you don't think that theorcas every time they show up have
the same meaning, the same?
It may or it may not.
You know, it could be kind ofpointing you towards something, you
know, it's really hard to say,you know, I can't tell you for sure,
but I do think that if youcontinue to write down your dreams
and every time you do see anorca, you know, kind of look at,

(40:14):
kind of compare it to theother orca dreams and see the similarities
and differences.
And the other thing I wantedto talk about is lucid dreaming is
really, really great when youhave recurring dreams.
Because what you can do isnow, you know, you see an orca often
in your dreams.
Let's say twice a week, youdream of an orca.
I don't know.
You know that every time yousee an orca, you will be dreaming

(40:35):
because I don't know how oftenyou see orcas in real life.
Probably not very often.
So train your brain.
Every time I see an orca, Iwill know that I'm dreaming.
I will check, do a realitycheck, a dream check, or whatever
recurring symbol it is, youcan use it to your advantage to lucid
dream.
So, like, I train myself.
Yeah.
Every time I think of orcas orI see a fish or I see the ocean or
something related to orcas,I'm going to train my brain to think,

(40:58):
oh, maybe I'm dreaming.
What's going to happen is nexttime you have your orca dream, you're
going to already have that habit.
Oh, maybe I'm dreaming and itmight feel kind of stupid.
Like, nah, I'm not dreaming.
Until you look at the orca andsomething crazy happens and you're
like, I'm dreaming.
Thanks, orca.
So that's so cool.
It can be your, like, little dream.
Yeah, it could be your trigger.
Yeah.

(41:18):
Well, okay.
Yeah.
And what's funny is, so I wastelling my mom, I was like, it's
starting to really bother me.
Like, these orcas are poppingup in, like, every dream and it's
just so weird.
And, you know, I don't have apersonal meaning of them for me.
And then when I was lookingup, of course, like, all the different
interpretations of all on allthe different types of sites, nothing
was resonating with me untilthere was one that said that orcas

(41:43):
could be your totem animal, Ithink is what it was.
And so then I started lookinginto totems and trying to figure
out what that meant.
And so basically, like, orcascould be like your messenger.
And then also it could meanthat someone in your life is going
through a personal conflict orstruggle and that you need to, like,
maybe reach out to them andlike, you know, help them out a little

(42:06):
bit.
And as I was saying that, mymom was like, oh, well, orcas had
always been my favorite animalgrowing up.
And I was like, oh, okay.
I didn't.
I actually didn't know that.
And I was like, well, iseverything okay?
And she goes, meh.
Told me that, like, meh,things are not amazing.
Yeah.
Maybe you knew it on asubconscious level.

(42:26):
No clue.
Wow, that's interesting.
Yeah.
Orcas are very connected totheir families, too.
I feel like whales in general.
Right.
I don't know.
Maybe I'm wrong about that, but.
No, no, you're right.
Yeah.
Sorts of animals.
Yeah.
No, that's really interestingthat you found that connection.
And like I said, there may bemore to it.
There may not be, but, like,keeping a dream journal is a cool

(42:48):
way to just keep track of it.
And when you go to sleeptonight or every night for the rest
of the month, you know, justhave a little thought in your brain.
If I see an orca, I will knowthat I'm dreaming.
Like, it's a really easytrigger for you.
Love it.
I like that.
I wanted to point outsomething that.
Well, actually, I had twothings going on in my mind.
Let me do this one first,because it's kind of dedicated towards

(43:10):
Sam.
So when you were talking andtelling the dream, I was thinking,
oh, I wonder if it's this.
And in my mind, this is what Iwas going to ask you.
Do you have something in yourlife that you're kind of hesitant
about that you're a little bitscared of that maybe kind of is starting
to, like, maybe you're findingout is not as bad as it really could

(43:31):
be.
I mean, that's not a badquestion because I was explaining
how, like, I was always apprehensive.
I'm always apprehensive aboutthe orcas, but whoever I'm with or,
you know, Nora is always like,oh, whale, jump in.
It's fine.
I.
Nothing comes up.
I feel like I was trying tomake that narrative fit when I was
trying to process it myself,but I couldn't exactly come up with

(43:55):
something that I felt like,made sense.
Fair.
Because that's where I wasthinking, like, oh, once you kept
talking, I thought, wow, thisis interesting because, Aminah, you're
so good at asking the rightquestions and not leading people.
And I was thinking, yeah,because it could mean so many different
things.
But, you know, you like, right?
The dreamer knows themselves best.

(44:16):
Right.
And I kind of.
That's what it made me think.
I want to say you said that inour last.
Yeah, our last meeting.
Definitely.
Yeah, definitely.
I. I can't tell you what itmeans, but I know that deep down
in there, like, there's.
There's some sort of meaning,or maybe there's not, and either
way it's okay.
But what was I gonna say?
I forgot.
Oh, well, it'll come back.
Yeah.
I'm like a concrete person.

(44:37):
Like, I feel like there has tobe a meaning and I need to figure
it out.
That's actually what I was thinking.
I was gonna say, well, if youfeel like there's a meaning, there's
probably a meaning.
That's what.
When I was.
Okay, back to the past liferegression thing.
I know it's not the same, butI was in a meditative state and I
was sharing out loud what Iwas seeing and feeling as she guided

(44:58):
me into a past life.
And one of the things was Iwas like, I don't know.
I can't tell if I'm.
I don't know if this is whatI'm thinking or if this is what it
means, but it keeps poppinginto my head, but I don't really
want it to mean this.
And she was basically like,well, if you feel like it means something,
it probably means something.
And you have to just trustyour gut.

(45:19):
And I'm wondering if you canapply that to lucid dreaming.
Definitely.
Yeah.
Dream work is, in general, isjust a very intuitive thing.
It's really about you and yoursubconscious and that, like, dialogue
between you and your inner self.
And nobody knows you betterthan you, you know?
So I definitely think there'sa lot of intuition with it.
Looking up meanings and thingscan definitely help.
But like you said, you.

(45:40):
You'll know if you feel it or not.
You don't have to forcesomething to resonate.
But, yeah, just keep lookinginto it, like, you know, start asking
yourself, like, what are thequalities of these whales?
Like, what the othercharacters in the dream are doing?
Kind of like we've beentalking about and.
And just like everything youcan just to, like, build that free
associative thinking.
Like, it's okay if all thesequestions don't necessarily have

(46:01):
answers, but over time,sometimes a dream can make sense
later on.
Well, I'll let you guys knowwhen it finally clicks because it's
been.
It's been bothering me.
And so I just thought it wasreally interesting when someone was
like, oh, I'm seeing.
I think their example was,like, owls or something.
And all the time.
And then I was like, oh, I'm seeing.
Or goes bothering you becausethey're making you uncomfortable
in the dream or because youdon't know what it means.

(46:23):
Because I don't know what it means.
And you know me.
I need to know why.
Yeah, well, maybe you need anaquarium trip and go see some.
Some orca whales.
Let's go.
I love the aquarium.
It's literally my favorite place.
It's Jacob's favorite place.
We should all just go.
Amina, when you're talking toSam about the dream journaling and
waking up and saying, okay,one thing that you said struck me,

(46:47):
and you said it's not.
You said.
What did you say?
You said, write down, like,when you're seeing the orcas, how
often are you seeing them?
Write down everything you dreamed.
But you also said, write downwhat's going on in your life and
what you're feeling so thatyou can kind of like, see if there's
a pattern.
See if there's a pattern.
And I was just like, what?
Wait a minute.

(47:07):
Dream journaling is not justjournaling about dreams.
Now I'm seeing.
Yeah, for sure.
And again, this may not applyto everybody.
Like, you don't have to do allthese extra.
There's so many factors, youknow, you don't have to write everything
down.
But I have noticed patterns.
Like on the anniversary ofcertain things on dream of something
related to that.
Or like, every couple monthson the same day, I'll dream of a

(47:29):
certain symbol.
And that kind of just gives meclues, you know, with dreams, it's
kind of like figuring out apuzzle, you know?
And so all these things mighthelp you with the puzzle.
So if you feel like, oh, thatmight be helpful to me, then do it.
You know, if not, like, it's.
It's fine.
It's not like the mostimportant piece of information, but
it's just something that canadd to understanding these patterns.
I actually remember that videothat you posted about you had a dream,

(47:52):
and then when you're lookingback in your journal, you realize
that you have that same dreamor that same year.
Yeah, the dream, like,continued on, like, literally a year
later, which I thought was cool.
Like, it was similar themesand stuff and I hadn't even noticed.
But sometimes I'll look at mydream journal to, like a year ago
just to see.
Just to see if I can see.
Any connections because, like,oh, this is familiar.

(48:12):
I feel like I've.
Well, that kind of builds onto the other question.
What is it?
So the other question washaving dreams that basically build
off of each other.
And so I was like, oh, okay.
That's another great question,actually, for me too.
Oh, from our, from our listeners.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because when there's.

(48:33):
There's a couple of places.
So I have two places that Ivisit frequently in my dreams.
And in that dream, I canremember the past dream as if it
was real.
So there's like a resort thatSimon and I go to.
And like, in my dream I'velearned the layout and it's like,
really confusing, but, like,so I know that we're at the same

(48:54):
resort and I know the layout now.
And so then there's like adifferent hurdle.
And then there's also.
We were talking with, I think,the past life.
I was just gonna say I want tohear more about that.
And I bet the listeners do too.
Yeah.
So then there was the dream.
And I still haven't figured out.
Tell them in it.
Yeah.
That it's like this thriftstore, I think, that I keep going

(49:14):
into.
And so in one dream, I was inthe thrift store and it, you know,
I'm back in there.
The owner was like, oh, hey,take whatever clothing and shoes
you need.
And so I did.
And then when I revisited thethrift shop, I remember walking around
being like, oh, I'd been inthis shop before, like, and it looked

(49:35):
exactly the same from, like,the last time I was there.
And then I saw the owner and Iliterally started crying and, like,
woke up crying.
So I was like, thank you so much.
You don't even, like, realize,like, how much, like, what you gave
to me meant to me.
And I don't even know who thefuck is this lady is.
And I don't even know whatthis thrift shop is.
And I was like, this is so weird.
Wow, that's so cool.
Okay.
This is one of the mostawesome, mind blowing things about

(49:57):
dreams that I really love.
So it's like I've noticed this.
You know, we have thesecontinuing dreams, I call them persistent
realms.
Like, which is literally likea realm that's always there, that
you build on, that stays thesame when you go back to it, whether
you're lucid or not.
People experience this.
And what.
What's crazy is, like, it'salmost like we have a separate memory
bank for dreams.
Like, we remember dreams, andit has these storylines that continue.

(50:19):
And sometimes I'll evenremember people from the dream that
I don't know in waking life.
Like, I'll be like, oh, yeah,like, Victoria did that last week,
like in the dream, and I don'tknow this person at all.
So it's like it has like its own.
Victoria.
Right, Exactly.
So it has like its own memorybank, which I think is interesting.
And sometimes while lucid, Ican choose to go back to dreamscapes
that I've even created andthey stay the same.

(50:39):
Like you can create your owndreamscape that stays the same, the
same.
And then you go back to.
And then you build on every time.
Like, I do this a lot.
Interesting.
Yeah.
But for people that are notlucid, like, definitely create your
own dream map.
Like if you notice scenariosall the time, like the dream symbols
that I tell people to focus onon their dream journal.
Like if you don't write anylong narratives and you only write

(50:59):
down what you saw, write downcharacters, environments, objects
and emotions.
Like those four things.
Characters, environments,objects and emotions are like your
little dream map.
Like you can kind of see whatcomes up, what doesn't.
And the environmentspecifically is really cool because,
you know, it may be the exactsame place every time.
And again you can use it as alucidity trigger or, you know, it

(51:21):
may, may change a little bit.
Dreams are kind of, it's likea different dimension that we live
in part time, literally.
Like, it's kind of crazy tosee it that way, but it is, it is
true.
That was kind of what I wasabout to ask you.
And we keep bringing up thepast life regression, but I think
that was just one of our mostrecent, like mind blowing conversations.
She was explaining how, youknow, the soul could be living in

(51:45):
two dimensions at the sameexact time.
And so that dream had come upbecause I was like, well, what if
that is another dimension thatI am living in?
And that's why it meant somuch to me and this lady meant so
much to me, even though Ipersonally don't know anything about
it right now.
Yes, it could be.
So this is where it gets more metaphysical.
But it applies to the pastlife stuff because there's actually

(52:06):
a lot of scientific evidencefor past lives.
And dreams are a bigcontributor to that because we'll
have like three year olds thatdream of like Navy war pilots when
they name ships specificallyand they name things that the three
year old doesn't know otherwise.
And this happens a lot.
Like there are thousands andthousands of confirmed cases and
then they've been able to findwhatever, you know, so we can dream

(52:28):
of past lives.
People dream of parallellives, lives.
They've lived alternateversions of their lives where they
ended up up dating their highschool guy instead or whatever, you
know, like parallel versionsof ourselves, of where we made different
choices.
People dream of that.
Some people even have dreamslike they go to sleep one night and
their dream is like monthslong, like a lifetime that they lived
in this other life.

(52:48):
They grow up, get married,have a family, their dad dies, whatever.
They have this whole life andthen they wake up and they're just
like a teenager again andthey're mourning this entire like
years of dream that they hadand they thought it was a real life.
Yeah.
And my friend, I have a friendwho even had this at like 4 years
old.
She said she tells me thisdream all the time.
I'm gonna do a podcast about it.
But she literally woke up as afour year old and had a dream of

(53:10):
like an entire lifetime whereshe died as like an old man.
And then she woke up again asa four year old and like she's still
like, she's still liketraumatized by it.
Oh, it's like, God, I love.
We really.
I never would have other lives.
It's crazy.
Like there was literally adream where I woke up morning because
I felt like it was like one of those.

(53:31):
Yeah, it was like one of thosewhole life things and then someone
died.
I can't remember if someone orif it was me.
And then I woke up and I wasliterally like sad.
It's real.
Like dreams are reallyaffecting us and we're really there
traveling, so.
So we bring that acrossdimensions with us.
Yeah, I love that.
I.
Everyone, if you think aboutit, can relate to at least one of

(53:52):
these aspects in one of these stories.
So it's just reallyinteresting to link it.
Do you have any links?
Is anything triggering, likeany like links for you?
So just the idea.
So I call them movie dream.
Melissa Walker, she's a friendof mine that I mention it every episode.
Apparently she and I both havelike really vivid dreams and we call

(54:15):
them movie dreams because itjust feels like you're in a movie
or you're watching a movie.
It has like a little storylineand it's like you've lived a whole.
It's almost like you weredescribing those living like a whole
life.
And so I would say four nightsago I had one of these dreams and
I woke up and I said, I needto write this down.
Did I?
No, I've lost it.
All I can remember is certainweird, like they weren't aliens.

(54:39):
But hey, in that dream I wasbeing experimented on in some way
at one part and that's all Ican remember.
But anyway, yeah, these moviedreams, I kind of just feel like,
is that.
Just like the perspective thatyou're seeing.
It in, or I'm in it, but Ifeel like we called a movie dream
because it's like.
It's like a whole story.

(55:00):
Oh, okay, okay.
And it's just bizarre too, butit make it all anyway.
I don't know.
That makes me think of thedifferent perspectives because I
feel like there's dreams fromdifferent perspectives where you
feel like an observer watchinga movie, but then there's sometimes
where you're actually onlyseeing like what you would see because
it's physically you that'sexperiencing it.

(55:22):
And sometimes you're a totallydifferent dream character altogether.
And sometimes it's thirdperson, sometimes it's first person.
And, you know, it's funny thatyou brought that up because alien
abduction dreams are also avery common phenomena that people
even believe that aliens, youknow, experiment on us through their
dreams.
A lot of movies are made aboutthis, you know, and movies kind of,
wow, take a little bit of bitsand truth.
So I don't know.
That may or may not be true.

(55:42):
I don't have all the answers.
Well, and because you guysbrought it up, one of Simon was watching
a documentary on aliens.
And, you know, I kind of havealways felt like aliens are silly.
Like, that's just a silly thing.
But in this document ordocumentary, it was basically saying
how the.
It shows you how the humanskull has basically evolved over.
Over the years.

(56:03):
And that when they projectwhat the human skull would look like
if it kept.
Kept adjusting into thefuture, it looks like what we think
of an alien, where it's thenarrow jaw, big head, and the eyes
are very large and on the side.
And so the theory at the endof it was, well, what if aliens are
the future us traveling backin time to learn from mistakes and

(56:26):
learn from the humans in the past.
And so basically a parallel life.
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, it's a very common theory.
I also, I mean, I fullybelieve in aliens.
Like, I believe in aliens thatare human evolved and some that are
other types of aliens.
There's probably differentraces of aliens.
So, yeah, if they are moreadvanced than us, I don't see why
they wouldn't be able to tapinto our dreams.

(56:47):
But that's again why luciddreaming is so important, so you
can take control of your owndream content.
Love it.
Oh, interesting.
Because if they're.
Okay, sorry, just to go onthis weird tangent that we started.
If aliens are tapping into ourdreams, if that's the thing, we want
to try to take that controlaway from them and Is that what you're
kind of saying?

(57:07):
So I don't want to scarepeople, obviously.
I don't want to, like, putscary ideas into people's heads.
But, you know, let's say ifyou believe in aliens, like, we can
entertain this theory.
If aliens are more advancedand smarter than us and have all
this fancy technology, there'sa potential that they can read our
minds or tap into our dreams.
Right?
Same thing with even thegovernment and people in power.
Like, there's theories aboutthem putting ads in our dreams.

(57:30):
And so there's this wholething about, like, dream privacy
and, and the ethical concernsof that, right?
Yeah, there is.
I mean, even though dreams areall in our head, like all this new
science is pointing to theidea that maybe we can share dream
spaces, maybe it's more thanjust in our head.
Maybe we're tapping into acollective dimension.
Right.
So that's definitely apossibility, a scary one at that.

(57:52):
But again, I tell people,like, you're safe in your dreams
at the end of the day.
You can your dreams or maybenot even try to control it, but you
have control over what youallow into your psyche and to what
affects you.
Lucid dreaming makes it easierto, you know, take charge about what
you dream of and what type ofenergy you consume.
And nightmares are alwaysgoing to happen once in a while.

(58:13):
Like that's a normal part of dreaming.
You might have a scary aliendream once in a while, but I've never
seen of an alien that actuallyhurt someone in a dream.
So as long as they put youback safe and sound at the end of
the day, like, who reallycares, right?
Yeah, I guess that's true.
Like, there's a lot of movies,there's a lot of shows and movies
that like, allude to this and,and shows and movies come from somewhere,
some ideas and theories.

(58:33):
So people have thought aboutit, you know, but you'll be fine.
That's so interesting.
So, Amina, you have taught usso much and honestly, I just think
we could have you back every season.
But I.
If you're like, you get sopassionate and like, you have the
best talking voice, like, youshould be on radio.
She is.
Thank you.
That's sweet.

(58:54):
She's on podcast.
Okay.
That's true.
I wanted to know from you,like, what is the most meaningful
question that you either askedand went into a lucid dream asking
or even maybe you didn't gointo it, but you had answered in
a lucid dream?
Like, if you don't mind sharing.

(59:14):
Sure.
I love this question.
I really love sharing my dreams.
And just a little disclaimer.
Sometimes when I share mylucid dreams, like, to me it sounds
like the most marvelous,marvelous, like, amazing epiphany.
And then it might soundtotally basic to somebody else.
No, that's fair, but.
So I had a couple series ofdreams where I kept asking the meaning
of life, like, you know, justto see, like, what would happen,

(59:35):
you know?
Yeah.
So I asked, what is themeaning of life while lucid on a
few different occasions.
And this is actually one ofthe dreams.
I'm sorry, I'm gonna interruptfor just a second.
Is this the one?
I listened to a few of your.
Quite a few of your episodes,and one of them, I swear, you were
talking about the meaning oflife, and then you talked about dream
police.
Is this.
Yeah, okay.

(59:55):
It's okay.
It might have.
I've had so many dreams thatthey overlap, but I can talk about
what the dream police is,which is kind of an interesting thing.
So, yeah, I mean, they can be related.
But the meaning of life thing,when I would just ask, like, what
is the meaning of life?
I would get different answers.
Sometimes I would get random answers.
But this one that really stuckwith me was it just gave me one word.

(01:00:15):
And that one word was unity.
And I always get somethingalong those lines of, like, unity,
community, like, connection.
Like, that is the meaning oflife that my dreams give me.
So it's like.
It's like, yeah, it's likethis deep thing, but it's also like,
okay, what am I supposed to dowith that?
You know?
So it's like.
It's, like, elusive, you know?
And I've also had these big,like, just realizations.

(01:00:36):
Like, I had this one longlucid dream where my dream character
was like, I'm your spiritguide, and I watch you.
Oh, wow.
I'm going to take you somewhere.
Yeah.
And this is one of my favorite ones.
And he took me to, like, thissecret room that human dreamers are
not allowed to go.
So he told me to, like, stayquiet or the dream police will send
me back to my body or wake me up.
Right.
It's kind of like this conceptthat I called the dream police of,

(01:00:58):
like, dreams that kind of wakeyou up when you get too close to,
like, getting all the secrets or.
Or just, you know, whatever,when they feel like, okay, you've
had enough.
You can wake up now.
They'll kind of come around.
So I was.
And I knew this alreadybecause it's happened to me in a
lot of dreams.
So I was like, okay, I'll tryto lay low and just act normal.
But he was showing me all this stuff.
He was telling me, like,secrets of the universe.
I can't even remembereverything because it's impossible

(01:01:18):
to remember everything fromthe dream.
You know, you're literallytrying to remember everything that
you said, like, throughouthours, right?
Impossible.
But you can remember thegeneral messages of what you got
and the general feeling.
But he was showing me, like,this big TV screen, right?
This is how the metaphor wasshown to me in the dream.
And the TV screen had, like,dinosaur era on it.
Like, not like a movie, but,like, live.
Like, he was watching it live,and he was like, we can just change

(01:01:40):
to any time and place on Earthand we watch you guys and, like,
all eyes are on Earth right now.
Like, it's like this big,like, show, and, like, we are cheering
you guys on.
And, like, he could change tothe forties or the future or, like,
us right now having this podcast.
You know what I mean?
So they literally watch us allthe time, and they told me about
how, you know, we live thesedifferent lives for different reasons,
but we all kind of areconnected and, like, you know, all

(01:02:03):
these, like, big truths.
And I had this years ago, kindof before all these new Agey theories
started to get popular, but Istill resonated with them.
And so a lot of times I'lljust have these, like, spiritual
realizations.
I've also asked for, like,advice on my own life, you know,
such as, like, what do I doabout this situation?
What do I do for my researchdissertation topic?
Like, different things like that.

(01:02:23):
And I've also gotten greatanswers that have guided me, you
know, through my life with that.
So, yeah, those are some ofthe bigger, deeper stuff.
I'd have to search through mydream journal for more.
Yeah, that's amazing.
When you talk about unity,it's like, yeah, it's super elusive
because it's like, well, whatis the point of, like, having, like.

(01:02:45):
It's like I feel sometimeslike we're in some kind of an experiment.
The Truman Show.
Sherman Truman.
Yeah, the Truman Show.
You're right.
No, not like that, but morelike I. I sometimes feel like we're
all just part of the sameorganism, if that makes sense.
Like, we're just thrown into apetri dish.
We're, like, growing.

(01:03:06):
And something that happensover here on this side affects, you
know, over here, and I feellike that's how we are as humans
on this world.
I feel like we all are part ofthe same thing, and we affect each
other.
Yes, but it's like you say,elusive because.
And I agree.
Because it's like, but why?
What's the intent?
Like, where?
What is the what?
Why?

(01:03:27):
Oh, I haven't.
You made me remember another 4Dreams story where I did this.
So I go up to this randomdream character and I ask her again,
what's the meaning of life?
She says, fruit tivity andcreative expression.
And I'm like, that's interesting.
This time I'm like, no, giveme more.
Like, what does it mean?
That's just words.
Nice.
She was like, well, she goes,we're all just one big fake dream

(01:03:48):
simultaneously being dreamedby the bigger real dream.
And I ask her, what's the real dream?
She's like, some people callit God.
And I ask her, so what's thefake dream?
And she goes, I don't know.
I'm like, me neither.
And then we laugh and skip away.
No.
Yeah.
And so that's kind of like.
It's kind of like reallyrepresentative of like the whole

(01:04:10):
concept because it's like,wow, so deep.
But also like, it's not eventhat serious.
Like, yeah, like, who even cares?
Are you having fun?
Exactly.
And then in another one, Iasked a dream character, how can
I heal my trauma and my blockages?
And they brought me this bigplastic puzzle.
And the pieces of the puzzlewas like a word Scrabble puzzle.
And then the one that I wasworking on said programming with

(01:04:33):
like a bunch of Rs.
So I thought that was cool too.
Oh, that is interesting.
Programming your blockages and trauma.
Yeah, because it was a flatcat too.
So I was about to say, somaybe a cat.
That is.
So there was a cat in the dream.
Oh.
Because I was.
Again, it's like, that's agood answer.
But well, also.
Okay, two things come to mymind with that because now I'm just.

(01:04:54):
This is fun programming.
So you said prrrr.
Lots of Rs.
When cats purr, there's someresearch saying that they purred
a certain frequency.
That can help wounds healfaster and better.
And so that's one thing that'svery interesting.
The other thing is like, oh,maybe it's programming, like just

(01:05:15):
re training ourselves, like tohave our neurons fire in a more healthy
way.
Yeah, I don't know.
Do either, I think.
Yeah, both.
Yeah, Yeah, I think both.
Because I've also had.
Obviously I believe boththeories are true because I've also
had dreams with my cat, like,laying on me and waking life.
Yeah.
He'll like, lay on my chestwhile I'M sleeping.
And it'll, like, he'll makehis way into my dreams sometimes,

(01:05:38):
like, I'll have dreams wherehe's, like, helping me heal people.
And he's, like, telling me howto send healing energy around the
world.
And I can feel him purring onme, like, in my dream.
Kind of like that study I wastalking about, like, it makes.
Makes its way into my dream.
That is so beautiful.
I love that we could keepgoing forever.
This is fascinating.
It is always fascinating.
And then it's just like howall of our conversations, we always

(01:05:59):
end with.
It's kind of coming into,like, a full circle where it just
translates into so many of theother conversations we've had.
Like, everything seems connected.
Everything does seem connected.
It really.
Towards the end of theconversation, it even reminded me
and brought me back to Lara'sepisode where we're talking about

(01:06:20):
shaman practice.
Shaman practitioning.
Yeah.
And how everyone is the same energy.
And it just.
That's kind of what.
Yeah.
It made me think of when youwere talking.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
It's really awesome stuff.
If dreams really do bring usall together.
And, you know, people usedreams to talk to ancestors and understand
them better and grow.

(01:06:42):
And so it's just so manybenefits to working with dreams.
So just out of my owncuriosity, as we come to an end,
our dreams, what you use asyour main guide in your daily life?
Some of the other people thatwe talk to, they use their tarot
cards or their.
What's the O one that.
That I just got?
Oracle.
Oracle cards.

(01:07:02):
Or some people would even say,no, you just need to go get therapy.
So, like.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's a lot of differenttools at our disposal.
And dreaming is definitely myfavorite one.
Lucid dreaming as well.
That's kind of like my thing,and I teach people about it.
But again, find what works for you.
Whether it's meditation,prayer, whatever it is.

(01:07:22):
There's so many different waysto connect with yourself.
I agree.
I love it.
And everyone has a differentlevel or thing that's going to comfort.
Yeah.
Or something that's going to,like, resonate with them.
We're all different.
Yeah.
On our own journeys.
Well, thanks for joining us again.
I'm so glad that we got tohave questions asked that we were
able to touch base again andkind of get into that and we learned

(01:07:46):
even more.
Yeah.
And it's so fun just going on,like, little, like, journeys with
you.
Like, you're such aninteresting person.
I love talking to you.
Oh, thank you.
Likewise.
You guys are so fun to talk toand I'm happy to chat anytime.
Well, thank you.
Well, I'm sure you guys keepasking questions and I'm sure that
we can do some more work withAmina in the future.

(01:08:09):
Sounds like a plan.
Yay.
Alrighty.
Skirts out.
Awesome.
Did you like the episode thatyou heard today?
Great.
Share it with a friend.
And don't forget to rate and review.

(01:08:31):
Sam.