January 22, 2024 • 52 mins
In this episode, Brian coaches Jordan Taylor, CEO of Medley, as she navigates a pervasive leadership challenge: how to effectively manage her time amidst an endless sea of urgent tasks. The heart of this session lies in Jordan's moment of self-discovery, where she confronts the inner narratives that influence her leadership, offering a moment of clarity that could resonate with your own leadership journey.
If you're a leader who finds yourself juggling between immediate needs and strategic goals, this episode is a must listen. You'll learn valuable strategies for shaping your internal dialogue, an essential move for effective leadership and personal transformation.
Timestamps
04:19 Linking Organizational Change to Personal Change
11:54 Frustration With Recurring Challenges
17:06 Role of the Critical Inner Voice
22:35 Positive Intent of the Inner Critic
23:15 How Self-Perception Impacts Motivation
37:00 Shifting Perspective on Productivity and Value
Watch the whole session on YouTube.
Enjoyed this episode? Ready to take your leadership and personal growth to the next level? Please visit my website to learn more about coaching with me.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brian Wang (00:01):
Welcome to Slow Down , to Speed Up.
I'm Brian Wang, an executivecoach who helps startup founders
grow by working through theirbiggest challenges.
On this show, I sit down withfounders for a one-time coaching
session where you will hearthings my guests never say
elsewhere, because they'reworking through real-life
current leadership issues.
When we struggle, we're oftentempted to find a quick solution
(00:23):
, and sometimes that's all weneed, but when we're finding
ourselves stuck in those reallytricky recurring problems,
that's when it's time to slowdown, because breaking through
to the next level requires us toexamine what patterns may be
holding us back and what newperspective might be called for.
I ask everyone who comes hereto dig deep and trust that
(00:43):
through this work, they willdiscover something new about
themselves and how to moveforward with their business.
I hope you find somethingvaluable in what you hear today
for your own journey.
Have you ever found yourselfstaring at an endless to-do list
, thinking about all you haven'tdone yet and feeling a sense of
overwhelm and that perhaps thestruggle means something
(01:03):
negative about you?
You're not alone.
That is the challenge that myclient, jordan Taylor, brings to
today's session.
Jordan is CEO of Medley, whichprovides group coaching and
leadership development forgrowing enterprises.
As I coach her, jordandescribes the things she's
supposed to do don't overcommit,say no, work on the important
things.
But rather than come up withstrategies on becoming more
(01:26):
efficient, we take things in adifferent direction, and what we
encounter turns out to be muchtrickier than your
run-of-the-mill productivityhacks.
Let's listen in.
Hey Jordan, great to see you,great to see you, Brian.
Jordan Taylor (01:38):
Thank you for having me.
Brian Wang (01:40):
Yeah, I'm so excited to be here with you.
Just to do a quick intro on whoyou are, I'm really excited to
introduce you.
This is Jordan Taylor.
She is the co-founder and CEOof an awesome company called
Medley, which does groupcoaching for leaders, helping
them level up and really be attheir best as their leading
teams and companies.
(02:01):
And it's a little bit of meta,of course, because we're talking
today here for some coachingand just also for some context.
You and I have known each otherfor a while now.
We've worked together for sometime.
I've seen you do incrediblework as you've gone and just
grown yourself through thejourney, so I'm tickled to do
(02:24):
this with you here.
And so, yeah, that's the quickintro on you, and I just want to
get warmed up with you and askwhat are we here for?
Why are we talking today?
Jordan Taylor (02:38):
Well, thank you, brian, again for having me in
this discussion, and there's alot we could talk about.
Even though we have beenworking together for a few years
now, I think it's beeninteresting for me to continue
to always have something thatI'm working on.
So what I'd love to dig intoday is an experience I'm
(03:01):
having where I am really tryingto lean into a moment of change.
My organization is goingthrough some exciting change.
We hired a couple of new people.
That started last week.
We have a pretty exciting,challenging, busy next six
(03:24):
months and beyond, and I'm inthe process of driving
organizational change to lead usthrough that period.
At the same time, there arethings that I have been working
on and I'm frustrated.
I'm frustrated because I feellike I have invested a lot in
(03:44):
trying to whether it be moreorganized, trying to spend my
time with more intention than Ifeel like I am trying to even
just be more on top offollow-ups and communications
with people, and these have beenthings that I have been saying
(04:09):
I wanted to change for a longtime and I have not been able to
do it.
I'm making progress, but notenough.
Brian Wang (04:19):
So just the first thing I'm struck by is you
started by talking about theorganizational change that
Medley is undergoing bigtransformation, underfoot,
making big decisions, and thenyou link that back into your own
change.
It sounds like you're lookingat this company and you're like,
oh wow, it's really going tolook different, we're really
(04:39):
going to go into a new place andyou're tying that into.
How do I want to change as partof that?
Or even just for myself?
So I'm wondering if I suspectwe're going to link both of
those and go back and forth abit today.
But you mentioned thefrustration.
Can you say a little bit more?
(05:00):
Just talk about when youimagine the change that you hope
to see on your end, the idealworld.
What does that actually looklike?
And then, as you talk aboutyour attempts, your efforts to
get there, what the frustrationhas been about.
Jordan Taylor (05:22):
So what does that actually look like?
Well, I think, if I could wavea magic wand, I would wake up
tomorrow and things would justbe different.
Brian Wang (05:33):
Different how.
Jordan Taylor (05:34):
I would look ahead at my day, feel confident
that I am spending every minuteon the most important things
that I should be spending timeon.
I would have an experience thatis more driving and pushing
things forward than reacting andresponding 13 hours of the day.
(05:59):
I would be more fulfilled fromthat.
I would feel more present, morein the moment, and I'd also be
really showing up with peopleand for my team and for all the
people that I engage with on adaily basis, with more presence
(06:24):
and integrity, and just on thatlast part, when you say showing
up for your people with presenceand integrity, how does it feel
like you're showing up to them?
now it feels like now I ammanaging a to-do list that will
(06:49):
never end, which is the life ofa startup CEO.
So I fully have accepted maybenot fully, but in theory I have
accepted that and signed up forit, and that is getting in the
way of me being able to dodeeper work like thinking,
writing, providing feedback onthings.
(07:12):
I'm constantly rushing frommeeting to meeting to meeting to
meeting, without space, andthat's hard for people who I
engage with because I know thatI could be more prepared.
I know I could do thingsdifferently, so it's frustrating
(07:35):
.
Brian Wang (07:35):
Yeah, okay.
So let me offer a reflectionand see what part of this land,
so I'm going to contrast twoorientations or ways of being
One I hear.
The ideal is that you saidthere's this intentionality,
that you know what you'refocused on each day.
(07:57):
There's I don't think you usethis word, but you know why
you're doing the thing you'redoing, and there's a fulfillment
which suggests that there issome purpose that you're
ultimately fulfilling, and sothe image I have in my mind is
you having a destination thatyou're driving toward.
(08:20):
It's like ah, this is thevision, the promised land.
If I'm like driving somewhere,I'm going from point A to point
B, I know where my point B is onthe map, and so everything that
I'm doing is organized aroundgetting to that endpoint.
Right, yeah, can I interruptfor a second?
Jordan Taylor (08:41):
Yeah, I think in my experience it feels more like
I know where I'm going, I seethe future and I'm in a car and
not holding on, not able tocontrol the wheels, and it's
like the earth is sort oftilting and then there's a
rainstorm and then this part ofthe car isn't working and I'm
(09:02):
like trying to hit theaccelerator, trying to go right
because I know that I need to goright and nothing's happening.
I'm sort of reacting and so I'mlike how do I fix the car or
fix something with how I'mdriving so I can go to where we
need to go?
Brian Wang (09:21):
Uh-huh.
So it's like something aboutthe vehicle itself and the
environment is getting in theway of getting to this
destination that you actuallycan see.
Jordan Taylor (09:31):
Yeah.
Brian Wang (09:32):
Okay, so in that analogy, what feels like the
wheel's not turning or the earthbeing uneven?
Jordan Taylor (09:51):
What's coming up immediately is my time, is just
the pulls on my time, and I'mtrying to think through what,
specifically in terms of it, isactually occupying space and
energy, and it feels a bit likea short-term, long-term
(10:19):
challenge where the things thatI'm doing every day are very
high urgency not necessarily themost important, but high
urgency and so those things getdone at the sacrifice of the
more important things that aremore long-term.
And then I would say there'ssomething in me that's even just
(10:42):
around me saying no to doingthings.
So if I look at just mycalendar and how I invest my
time, which is my only realresource that I have not my only
, but a critical one I have thisfantasy that I can do
(11:03):
everything, that I can geteverything done.
I can just work a little bitfaster.
And actually I can't, and Idon't really wanna believe that,
and so I keep saying, yeah,I'll get that to you on Thursday
.
Yeah, I'll meet you for lunch.
Yeah, I will do.
I will try to write up mythoughts on XYZ.
Brian Wang (11:24):
Right.
Jordan Taylor (11:25):
And it's like pretty unrealistic Okay.
Brian Wang (11:28):
Okay.
So it sounds like on anintellectual level, you can look
at the behavior and say okay.
Saying no feels important.
I do have a limited amount oftime each day, like all of us do
, and you're noticing yourselfbeing reactive, saying yes to
(11:49):
things, adding to the to-do list, working on the urgent and not
the important.
Jordan Taylor (11:54):
Right.
Brian Wang (11:55):
So let's stay there for a second.
You're seeing yourself do this,right.
You're seeing yourself notsaying no.
You're seeing yourself choosingto go after that kind of more
urgent sort of feeling thing,right?
So let's pretend now that youwere saying no to the requests
(12:16):
that are coming in and let's saythat you can notice the things
that feel urgent, but instead ofsaying yes to those, you'll say
not.
Right now I'm gonna go work onthe important things, the
important thing that's gonnaactually get me closer to that
destination.
And if you just take a momentto imagine, that's how, like
that's the space that you'reliving in, like what comes up
(12:37):
for you, what's, how does thatexperience in your mind strike
you?
Jordan Taylor (12:48):
I can see myself feeling happier, on the one hand
, that I have a more realisticand touch way of being with what
is possible in the constraintsof time, and also you know, I
intellectually know that thiswould unlock a lot, right, but I
(13:12):
emotionally am worried aboutletting people down and them not
valuing me because I'm notdoing what I not doing something
, or say I can't do something,and so it's kind of this people
pleasing situation and it's justthis trap that I feel, where I,
(13:36):
on the one hand I'm not doingwhat I'm doing, I'm not doing
what I'm doing On the one hand,I'm saying, oh, I need to be
more intentional with my time.
Brian Wang (13:49):
Right.
Jordan Taylor (13:50):
But, on the other hand, I've been saying this for
years and I'm a broken recordto be anyone who'll listen to me
about this and people have toldme, like you've been saying
this, like you control yourcalendar, change it, and yet
(14:10):
nothing has happened.
And it's just I can hear thefrustration.
Yeah.
Brian Wang (14:15):
Yeah, so I one.
I hear that you're reallypresent to some, some impulse to
not let people down.
That feels important to me justin hearing you, so let's hold
that.
But I also I'm really noticingthe frustration that you're
(14:36):
directing toward yourself at nothaving changed this.
Can you speak more to that?
Jordan Taylor (14:42):
Yes, I feel deeply that I I don't.
I just I'm angry with myselfthat I have not been able to do
these types of simple things,and that in itself is part of
the problem.
It's very difficult, todifficult, to go through, to be
(15:10):
in a car where there's a songplaying on repeat.
That's like you aren't drivingthe car well, like you know you
need to go right, just turn thewheel, like why aren't you going
right?
Just going on and on and on.
And I'm like okay, how do I notonly start moving the car to go
(15:36):
towards this destination butalso make the drive like more
enjoyable, like I want to put onsome music that is like calming
and fun, and that's what I'mlistening to.
Brian Wang (15:49):
So how often does the soundtrack, the thing that's
yelling at you, is that?
Is that the thing?
Okay, so it's like you'redriving and you're hearing the.
You're not doing a good enoughjob here.
Jordan Taylor (16:00):
This morning I woke up.
I woke up at six, 15.
I had to get into the city foran A45 meeting, I had to walk my
walker dog Howie, and I wantedto go for a run.
I had plenty of time to do bothof those things Cause I got up
at six, 15.
I was going to run to the cityand I didn't get out of bed for
(16:23):
an hour and since seven to 10 am, it's 2 30.
Every 10 minutes I'm like, oh,he wasted so much time this
morning.
Oh how did you not get a run inbefore you went into the city?
Like you ruined this day by notgetting out of bed earlier, and
(16:45):
nevermind fact that I got upand worked out in the morning on
Monday and Tuesday and I'm nottrying to go to the Olympics.
If I work out three days a week, that is a win, like it's fine,
probably not too bad.
But the voice in your head issaying that's not good enough
and that's like 6, 30, 6, 45, 7am On a Thursday morning.
Brian Wang (17:06):
Yeah.
Jordan Taylor (17:06):
I'm already starting at minus 30 points.
Brian Wang (17:10):
What happens to your like, so what happens to your
system when you, that voice isin your ear like, what, like,
what.
Do you notice?
Jordan Taylor (17:20):
I'm tense right now.
I'm tense right now, relivingthis experience like I feel
physically tense, I feel Anxious.
Yeah, I feel Also a little bitof like, okay, I need to go do
something now.
I need to like go prove that Ican do anything.
Brian Wang (17:39):
Yeah, proving to who ?
Jordan Taylor (17:43):
Evil person.
The soundtrack isn't even real,yeah.
Brian Wang (17:47):
Yeah, Okay.
Jordan Taylor (17:49):
I'm laughing, but it is not.
It is not like a, it's a.
It's a very difficultexperience I can.
Last week I had a experiencelike this where I spent two
hours in the morning doingnothing and I was sobbing Before
I went to work and then had tojust pull it together.
Brian Wang (18:08):
Yeah, like the day and the sobbing because you were
beating yourself up over it.
Jordan Taylor (18:11):
Yeah, so feeling so overwhelmed, so frustrated
yeah and just Panics that Imanaged to waste so much time.
Yeah and this is from 6 30 to 830 am.
Brian Wang (18:24):
Right, yeah, so we're mixing analogies here, but
yeah, you've heard how this iskind of like.
You know, like the soundtrackis just like really aggressive.
I just imagine, like you're,you're, you're, you're putting
the car in all different sortsof gears and the gears are just
grinding.
Yeah, it's hard to move becauseit's there's just all this
friction.
Jordan Taylor (18:42):
Yeah there.
Brian Wang (18:42):
There is this, that voice that's saying you're not
doing Whatever variation ofenough is right, and then it's
kind of like it paralyzes.
Jordan Taylor (18:53):
It's true.
Brian Wang (18:57):
What do you, what do you notice right now in your
experience, just as we'reengaging with this, and you said
there was some tension Is thattension still there?
Jordan Taylor (19:05):
Yes, I also feel some sadness because I feel a
genuine fear that I'm not gonnabe able to Shift the way I
experience my day-to-day.
Brian Wang (19:24):
Yeah.
Jordan Taylor (19:28):
So I feel sad about that because I feel like
it's just, it occupies a lot ofmy energy, a lot of my my brain
is just like Criticizing andpushing and frustrated.
Yeah, and you know, you know,when you meet people that are
(19:54):
angry towards others and they'rejust like you can feel it, you
can feel they're just kind of anangry person.
Brian Wang (20:01):
Yeah.
Jordan Taylor (20:03):
I'm like the opposite.
I feel like I've been smilingthis whole time while I describe
how I'm, like you know, sobbingin bed at 8 am For no reason.
Brian Wang (20:11):
Yeah.
Jordan Taylor (20:12):
I'm very.
I feel it's easy for me to bevery warm with others, but
inwardly it's like I'm a grumpy.
Yeah angry Mean, not even angrymean mean person.
Brian Wang (20:27):
Yeah, or just this particular voice.
Yeah that's kind of likeMeeting out the punishment.
Yeah feels really mean yeah, andand the part around where it
feels like you won't be able toshift out of that.
I Think that makes a lot ofsense, that why you would feel
(20:49):
some fear or some sadness aroundthat, right, if it's been going
on for so long and it's hard toSee a way out, then I can
imagine that would bring up someof those, those feelings.
So that that makes a lot ofsense.
And so I Wonder if we can movea little bit closer to this
(21:10):
actual Critical voice, ourtenant, our tendency is to say,
oh my god, this thing ispunishing me and I want to make
everything, do everythingpossible to make it stop.
But I wonder if we can maybeTry on some curiosity here and
really go and see, just kind offigure out what, what it's about
, right?
(21:30):
So when you're hearing thevoice, right, like, how do you
become aware of its presence?
Like, where do you, what do younotice that show up in your
body?
Jordan Taylor (21:50):
Doesn't really go away, but maybe my shoulders,
my hips, just yeah, I would saylike center more towards the
center of my core.
Brian Wang (22:03):
Yeah, and how would you describe it?
Jordan Taylor (22:05):
It's like a, like a tension, or like a yes,
tightness, yeah, tension andtightness and just Very region
yeah, yeah, okay, okay.
Brian Wang (22:17):
So it's really like stiff, yeah, yeah, Okay.
So if you just place yourattention there for a moment,
right, and let's, let's, let'shave you try this, let's
interview it a little bit, let'stry to get to know it a little
bit, right, so, okay, we knowwhat it does.
Yells at you, tells you likeyou're not doing a good enough
(22:41):
job, right, like what's itsintent?
What's, what is it trying to dohere?
Get me to do things.
Jordan Taylor (22:50):
Yeah, one way to get me to Like motivation?
I think so.
To get me to Get out of bed andWalk, howie.
To get me to prepare for ameeting, to get me to Write
(23:12):
things down?
Brian Wang (23:17):
So there are a whole bunch of tasks that feel like
I'm guessing even you can agreeyou want to do, yeah, and so it
sounds like the way it's reallytrying to get you to do that is
to just go yell at you.
Jordan, get going, you're notdoing this fast enough.
(23:39):
You've been sleeping for 15minutes Now.
It's been 30 minutes, so on andso forth, yeah, and so what
makes it think that yelling atyou is really the most efficient
way here to motivate?
Jordan Taylor (23:59):
I think that I think I'm naturally a lazy
person.
I don't think that's true, butin my mind I think if I'm left
to my own devices.
I just won't do anything.
I'm just sitting on the couchand just not do anything.
(24:20):
So I think that this has beenhow I've tried to get myself
motivated to just do anything.
Brian Wang (24:34):
Is that how you ended up starting Medley?
You noticed you were lazy andthen you yelled at yourself to
go start the company.
Jordan Taylor (24:41):
No, that's not funny enough?
Definitely not, because I alsolike doing difficult things.
So I'm not actually.
I have not a lot of examples inmy past of choosing not to do
the thing or to do anything, andmany of my most meaningful
(25:06):
experiences have been meactively seeking challenge.
Brian Wang (25:13):
Name a couple of examples, just to activate this
a little bit.
Jordan Taylor (25:16):
I was a junior in college and I joined the crew
team and we were a varsitylightweight rower.
For two years I had never, donea crew before.
Brian Wang (25:27):
What got you excited about that?
I really was thinking on a team.
Jordan Taylor (25:30):
I wanted to try something new and I liked it.
It was fun.
Brian Wang (25:36):
What was the most fun part of it?
Jordan Taylor (25:39):
Just being out there, being out on the water.
I loved having the structure ofjust knowing I had practiced
Monday, Tuesday, wednesday,thursday, friday and Saturday.
I loved feeling like I waslearning something new.
I loved doing that with otherpeople and getting to know the
other people.
(26:00):
I liked feeling and seeingmyself make progress in a pretty
measurable way.
I liked being outside.
It was a highlight of mycollege experience, for sure.
(26:22):
Everyone thought I was nutsbecause only other freshmen were
walking on who had no idea whatcollege was actually like.
I had college as a non-athleteand I was like no, I miss the
structure, I miss that process.
Brian Wang (26:42):
It sounds like you said it was the highlight.
You kicked your butt, probably,and there was a lot of
challenge to it too.
There was so much that youappreciated and enjoyed about
that.
Let's take another example.
Maybe it's medley, maybe it'ssomething else.
Let's find another examplewhere you went after something
(27:02):
that was really exciting,fulfilling.
Jordan Taylor (27:08):
I mean, medley is definitely exciting for me, and
it has been.
I had no idea what it wouldactually be like to try to build
a company.
I knew it would be challenging.
I had worked at an early stagestartup before I went to
business school.
I worked really closely withthe CEO, who's still a good
(27:30):
friend, and I saw just howintense the experience was for
him.
I still thought and do want todo it.
I view the intensity assomething that I'm seeking out
and moving towards.
Brian Wang (27:55):
You just gave me two examples where you saw
something that was challengingand exciting and you went after
them.
It seems to really fly in theface of this narrative of you
being lazy.
Jordan Taylor (28:08):
I also like running and I run a bunch of
half marathons, maybe 15 orsomething like that.
I don't even know.
Brian Wang (28:19):
This doesn't sound like someone who's lazy when
they're left to their owndevices, by the way.
Jordan Taylor (28:24):
Yeah, you know, there's the logical brain and
there's the other brain thatdoes not think very clearly.
But in my head a common storythat I will agree is probably
not very valid, doesn't have alot of legs is that if I don't
(28:48):
really push myself, I won't doanything and I will just atrophy
and just sit on the couch.
Brian Wang (28:56):
Where'd you learn that?
Jordan Taylor (29:02):
Could be that I play a lot of sports as a kid
and so if you stopped playing asport or practicing or running,
that does happen to your body.
But I would say my childhood isjust more generally.
I had a lot of activities and alot of structure to my day that
(29:25):
was imposed on me.
Things I liked, but I wouldhave school.
I'd have Taekwondo, ballet pianotennis, soccer, ice hockey I
did a lot of differentactivities and so I had a lot of
structured time.
So I did have a lot ofunshuture time where I was just
sort of existing and so maybe aspart of that, I thought okay, I
(29:54):
don't have a practice to go toright now, so I am going to sit
on the couch, which makes sense,because I was probably tired.
Brian Wang (29:59):
But I'm not Right.
I was just starting to thinklike, at what point are you
resting here?
Yeah, Thank you.
So you, you grew up around alot of structure.
There's all these differentthings.
You were going back and forth,you know, from to, etc.
By the way, it sounds a littlebit like your to-do list today,
but I digress, okay.
(30:22):
So so Nowhere in there am Ihearing real evidence that
Jordan Taylor, like when just isleft to exist, becomes some
sort of you know, motivation wasblob like.
I don't hear any of that.
Jordan Taylor (30:48):
Yeah, meaning mean either.
Brian Wang (30:51):
Let's, let's try something is my not translate
well and in the podcast, butwhatever.
So, like, just take a moment tojust do nothing right here.
Just be you, be here with meand just like, tune in to how it
feels to be here, tune intoyour internal sensations, right?
(31:14):
No like thing that you have todo absolutely right now.
There's no one yelling at youRight now to do anything.
What impulses do you notice?
Jordan Taylor (31:29):
come up, I wanted to have a sip of water because
I have a water bottle next to me.
Actually, I'm an urge to standup.
I was thinking about how littletime I might get myself to do
(31:53):
nothing.
Actually even though I end updoing nothing as a result of
trying to avoid something, butyou do nothing to avoid
something.
Sorry, yeah, I think thismorning.
I was probably tired and Ididn't feel like going for a run
.
That's why I didn't get out ofbed and Like I think, try, try
(32:17):
something try, try, doing try.
Brian Wang (32:21):
Fully owning what you just said, enjoying the fact
that your body was saying I'mtired and I just decided to go
spend some more time in bed.
Give that a try, rather thanmake this like a shameful thing.
I'm tired, and so I decided togive us a little bit more time
in bed in the morning, beforestarting my day.
Jordan Taylor (32:43):
I yeah, how did that feel.
Brian Wang (32:49):
Luxurious.
Jordan Taylor (32:55):
Feels Very kind, feels Like Also pretty
reasonable, also prettyreasonable.
Brian Wang (33:16):
Zürich is kind of reasonable.
Jordan Taylor (33:18):
Yeah, doesn't see , doesn't feel that Little
off-brand for me off-brand fromlike the mean leg, yeah, and
just like how could I possiblywaste that much time doing
nothing?
Yeah, but also feels better toframe it that way because I, I
(33:43):
think I probably I was tired,and if I wasn't tired I would
have gotten up right and somaybe it's not that I didn't get
up because I was just lazy and.
Like don't have enoughdiscipline.
Maybe it was that I didn't feellike getting up and I felt like
Sitting in bed and looking atInstagram and New York Times and
(34:04):
just this is making me wonder,jordan.
Brian Wang (34:06):
So so you know we've been talking about how this you
know, this internal criticyells at you Constantly and I it
makes me wonder, like how muchof the yelling is Getting in the
way of you just recognizing theneeds that you have and taking
care of those needs?
How much is it preventing youfrom just fully owning your
(34:33):
decisions?
Jordan Taylor (34:35):
a Lot.
It's definitely preventing youfrom doing that, because I'm not
.
I'm not behaving as though Ihave Needs that are valuable or
should be valued and areimportant and behaving instead
like I Need to do as much as Ipossibly can, and that's the
(35:01):
only thing that matters.
Yeah that's the only you sortof indicator of how good I am or
how effective I am, or orAnything what, what's coming up
for you guys?
Brian Wang (35:13):
you're saying that.
What are you feeling?
Jordan Taylor (35:21):
I mean, I definitely I'm feeling.
I'm feeling like I Am seeingthis a little bit more clearly.
I'm seeing it more clearly inthe sense that I I do really
value myself on how much I'mgetting done and how much I'm,
how productive I am, which issad because I'm not very
(35:49):
productive and so every day Ifeel bad about myself that I'm
not Getting enough done on mylist and I'm not valuing the
things that I actually Am doingand that I'm really great at.
Yeah, and that's so.
So it's, it's, it's.
I feel like I'm in a Trapbecause I'm everyday looking at
(36:10):
a scoreboard.
I'm thinking oh, I said I wasgoing to Follow-up on my our
benefit renewals by the end ofthe day and I haven't done it
yet.
Like today was a horrible day.
Yeah, and I'm not saying I, I'mgiving myself a scoreboard for
(36:32):
something that I think is kindof unfair and also I'm always
going to lose at because there'salways going to be more things
to do.
Right the incidence and notgiving myself points, for I had
this great meeting with acustomer.
I had a great meeting with oneof with one of our colleagues.
Like we, you know I I'm reallygood at some things and I don't
(36:56):
give myself any credit for thosethings.
Brian Wang (37:00):
I I'm actually good at.
Is there actually a point whereyou know you will have been so
productive in your days that youthat now you feel good about
yourself?
Jordan Taylor (37:10):
No, because the second.
You just climb something offthe list.
Something else comes on thelist, especially when you're not
fully controlling list.
So it's, it's, it's.
I'm setting myself up forfailure.
Brian Wang (37:24):
Yeah.
Jordan Taylor (37:25):
Because I'm looking at the wrong benchmark
or measure of that.
Brian Wang (37:33):
So, since we're talking about benchmarks and
measures, right.
So if it, if you were to say,okay, I'm not going to measure
the success of my days by somestandard of infinite
productivity, I'm not going togo rest my head, you know, right
before bed and say I'm notgoing to measure the failure of
success because I got some crazyamount of stuff done, how would
(37:57):
you actually want to assessyour days, how, how would you
want to really rate the successor failure of your days if it
weren't just this, you know,productivity thing?
Jordan Taylor (38:07):
It's like oh, I had fun today, I learned
something interesting.
I am proud that I helpedsomeone do something or learn
something.
I formed this new interestingrelationship.
I researched something that isinteresting.
I spent time with people I love, like my husband, my dog, my
(38:30):
family, my friends so many otherthings.
Brian Wang (38:39):
A lot of what you just said.
Those things feel like they'rereally important to you.
Jordan Taylor (38:43):
Yeah, they are important to me.
I've somehow, in these momentsI lose sight of that, or I think
, feeling like I'm makingprogress, feeling like I'm in
contributing and impactingmedley is also very important to
(39:06):
me, sure, and I think that's achallenge of operating at an
early stage.
Brian Wang (39:14):
So let's bring it back to that.
So if it's not about I dideverything on my to-do list and
to infinity right, Because,there is that infinite right
With medley.
What's enough.
What's enough for a day.
Jordan Taylor (39:43):
I find it hard to answer that because my mind
immediately thinks nothing isenough, Like I should be doing
as much as I can in a given dayBecause we have a lot to do and
limited resources and limitedtime.
Brian Wang (40:02):
Yeah, so yeah, I wonder.
Every day you're thinking ohman, this is not enough.
Jordan Taylor (40:07):
Yeah.
Brian Wang (40:08):
Yeah, I think we're hitting on the thing that is
driving a lot of the harshnessand the criticism.
You've set yourself up withthis game that is essentially
unwinnable, like some image ofsomeone who's like infinitely
(40:32):
productive, always perfect,always doing the thing that
feels like you're checking outthe next task right, always
locked in, and somewhere alongthe way you kind of lose sight
of what you need, like anexample is where you need rest,
and also you lose sight of thethings that are really, really
(40:53):
important, both personally andto the company, because the game
that you're focused on is doingeverything Right, because
nowhere in there is is there anydefinition of enough that
(41:17):
really feels like it reflects myexperience and I'm thinking now
, you know what are other games?
Jordan Taylor (41:30):
that I can focus on, to try to distract, deflect
away from this very impossiblegame that I've decided to play
instead.
Brian Wang (41:41):
It's not about distracting.
It's not about distracting anddeflecting.
That almost suggests that youknow it's still running the show
it does.
But you run the show, yeahRight, and it has to decide on
what the game is.
Jordan Taylor (42:07):
I don't know if I can do it.
Brian Wang (42:10):
Let's tell you that.
Jordan Taylor (42:14):
I don't know if I can really let go of like this
aspiration to be getting thingsdone all the time, but at the
same time, you know you can'tlike keep doing the same thing
(42:36):
and expecting different results.
Right, and that's what I'vebeen doing.
Brian Wang (42:41):
What's so?
Yeah, I can see theintellectual part of you coming
on here.
What's the scary part aboutletting go of this idea?
What happens like what happensif you let go of it.
Jordan Taylor (43:03):
I'm trying to figure that out.
I just don't.
I don't.
I don't get feeling and havethe belief that I can, but it
feels so important to me as aperson, it feels like.
(43:25):
So I don't feel like I have anydistance between the critical
voice in my head and who I amyeah, as Jordan, and so it's.
Brian Wang (43:36):
So if you were to drop that, then you would lose
Jordan.
Jordan Taylor (43:40):
Yeah, or it's just is it.
Is that even possible?
I mean Change is possible withhumans.
Brian Wang (43:53):
You run a coaching company after all.
Jordan Taylor (43:56):
I do believe that .
I believe I have the capacityto grow and I'm learning,
growing all the time, in a lotof different ways.
So why is this one thingdifferent?
(44:17):
From all the other ways that Ibelieve I can, and I believe
other people can grow and learn.
Brian Wang (44:24):
Right.
Jordan Taylor (44:34):
Maybe I just need to try.
Brian Wang (44:36):
What would that look like?
Jordan Taylor (44:41):
Maybe I could, every time I feel the criticism
coming, try to Ignore it orThink of something else I'm
(45:08):
still kind of deflecting, but orsay you know I'm I'm letting go
like.
Brian Wang (45:23):
Have you tried deflection and ignoring in the
past?
Jordan Taylor (45:30):
No, yeah, not really.
Brian Wang (45:36):
So how do you typically relate to it when you
notice the criticism?
I'm just trying to get into itand you what you believe it.
Jordan Taylor (45:46):
And I just go down the spiral.
Yeah, I just keep thinking,thinking, thinking.
You know, I had like an hourfree before this and I was
trying to finish something andup until three minutes before, I
was like why haven't you beenable to write this?
You need to write it.
(46:06):
Just True, battering for 57minutes and I stopped because
I'm here now.
Yeah, but yeah, I just like Itry to just focus on the thing.
The voice shows up Veryuncomfortable.
Brian Wang (46:26):
Right.
Jordan Taylor (46:28):
And it gets in the way of me doing what I'm
trying to do, because insteadI'm beating myself up over the
thing that I'm writing or doingor Trying to Focus on I'm has a
lot of power in my mind.
But I already am definitelytaking away that if I believe I
(46:50):
can change a lot of other thingsabout myself and that other
people can grow.
I think I need to remember that, like, why should I be some
exception to like a corephilosophy of how I think about
people?
Yeah, and humanity.
Brian Wang (47:05):
Right, right, and so A lot of what we're talking
about is, in essence, how yourelate To this voice,
recognizing that it is not you,it's a part of you that is
(47:29):
trying to get you to dosomething, presumably with some
positive intent, but it's takenon the strategy of yelling at
you, right, criticizing you and,as you've noted, it kind of
Beats you down, paralyzes you,right, and so then I think that
(47:49):
the question just becomes how doyou start to Relate to this
voice in a way that creates somemore spaciousness for you,
right?
Recognizing that you are not thevoice?
It's there.
We can choose to relate to itin any number of ways Believe it
, argue with it, ignore it,right, you know, give it a snack
(48:14):
and you know, put it.
Put it in the backseat of thecar, to the badge of the the car
analogy, right, but there's a.
There's probably an infinitenumber of ways to engage with it
.
The first step is to evenrecognize that it's operating,
right, mm-hmm.
And Then, from there, start toexperiment like okay, how can I
(48:38):
actually relate to this in a waythat gives me feeling more
empowered Than I currently am?
Jordan Taylor (48:45):
When you're describing that, it reminds me
of.
I did a yoga teacher trainingin 2016 200 hour one and as part
of that, we meditated for 30minutes every day or more, and
it's like basic principle ofenter, goal of meditation or the
(49:07):
way they would describe it, noteven goal, but the process
itself imagining your thoughts,kind of going through and, and
you're observing that sort ofgoing through and moving through
your head and just bring itback and recognizing that you
Can choose to relate to thething In whatever way you want.
(49:29):
It can be a big, powerfulthought, or it could be
something let's just starteddancing through and then it
keeps going, and I definitelyfeel now and Even just this, I
do feel reminded that I do havesome agency.
(49:52):
Yeah how I choose to relate toyou, this critical voice.
Brian Wang (49:59):
Yeah, yeah, I Think that's what you just said is
huge.
The agency part, right?
Yes, earlier you were saying Idon't even think I can Right.
There's some belief that, likeI'm sort of yeah, yeah, and, and
so I Think you know to to takethis forward for you, what I
(50:19):
would offer is maybe Experimentwith just that, like how can I
actually have some agency?
In this relationship With this,with this voice, right, yeah,
what would that look like foryou?
Jordan Taylor (50:32):
Yeah, Thank you.
Brian Wang (50:37):
Yeah, let me know how that goes for you, please.
Jordan Taylor (50:41):
I will.
Brian Wang (50:43):
All right, jordan, thanks so much for spending the
time with me today.
Jordan Taylor (50:46):
Thanks, Brian.
Brian Wang (50:48):
Okay, talk soon.
There's a lot to unpack here.
Let me share my three majorinsights what our limiting
beliefs hold incredible powerover us.
Jordan shared many like doingeverything means she's a good
person that she can't actuallychange, that she's inherently
lazy, that she needs to be meanto herself to get motivated.
These sort of beliefs don'thappen overnight.
(51:09):
They are conditioned into usover time.
It's on us to identify our ownlimiting beliefs and see which
of those we can let go of to.
Emotional regulation is halfthe battle.
It blew my mind the first timeI heard that procrastination is
not a time management problem.
It's an emotional regulationproblem.
The issue with shaming andcriticizing ourselves is that
(51:30):
it's highly inefficient.
It's like screaming an athleteright before they make a play,
kicking their nervous systeminto a Disregulated mess.
We are far more efficient whenwe are calm, grounded and
self-compassionate.
Finally, our parts need ourattention.
If you're familiar with partswork, you know that we are made
up of many individual parts thatserve different functions.
(51:52):
Jordan shared how it felt likethere was no distance between
her and her critical voice.
So the first thing is to pauselong enough to see that that
unhelpful voice is not who weare, but some part of our
conditioning, then, rather thanignore or fight it, I found that
the key is to treat it withrespect, without buying into its
story.
That allows us to take back ouragency, while showing
(52:14):
compassion for our quote-unquoteless helpful parts.
This can open the door tobetter understanding the critic
and why it behaves the way itdoes, and that is the start of a
Profound and important healingjourney, one that I think most
founders can benefit from.
Thank you for listening toslowdown to speed up.
If you enjoyed this podcast,please rate it in your favorite
(52:35):
podcasting app.
If you are a founder who wouldlike help in reaching the next
level through coaching, or ifyou'd like to come on the show,
please contact me at dashingleadership comm.
Welcome to Slow Down , to Speed Up.
I'm Brian Wang, an executivecoach who helps startup founders
grow by working through theirbiggest challenges.
On this show, I sit down withfounders for a one-time coaching
session where you will hearthings my guests never say
elsewhere, because they'reworking through real-life
current leadership issues.
When we struggle, we're oftentempted to find a quick solution
(00:23):
, and sometimes that's all weneed, but when we're finding
ourselves stuck in those reallytricky recurring problems,
that's when it's time to slowdown, because breaking through
to the next level requires us toexamine what patterns may be
holding us back and what newperspective might be called for.
I ask everyone who comes hereto dig deep and trust that
(00:43):
through this work, they willdiscover something new about
themselves and how to moveforward with their business.
I hope you find somethingvaluable in what you hear today
for your own journey.
Have you ever found yourselfstaring at an endless to-do list
, thinking about all you haven'tdone yet and feeling a sense of
overwhelm and that perhaps thestruggle means something
(01:03):
negative about you?
You're not alone.
That is the challenge that myclient, jordan Taylor, brings to
today's session.
Jordan is CEO of Medley, whichprovides group coaching and
leadership development forgrowing enterprises.
As I coach her, jordandescribes the things she's
supposed to do don't overcommit,say no, work on the important
things.
But rather than come up withstrategies on becoming more
(01:26):
efficient, we take things in adifferent direction, and what we
encounter turns out to be muchtrickier than your
run-of-the-mill productivityhacks.
Let's listen in.
Hey Jordan, great to see you,great to see you, Brian.
Jordan Taylor (01:38):
Thank you for having me.
Brian Wang (01:40):
Yeah, I'm so excited to be here with you.
Just to do a quick intro on whoyou are, I'm really excited to
introduce you.
This is Jordan Taylor.
She is the co-founder and CEOof an awesome company called
Medley, which does groupcoaching for leaders, helping
them level up and really be attheir best as their leading
teams and companies.
(02:01):
And it's a little bit of meta,of course, because we're talking
today here for some coachingand just also for some context.
You and I have known each otherfor a while now.
We've worked together for sometime.
I've seen you do incrediblework as you've gone and just
grown yourself through thejourney, so I'm tickled to do
(02:24):
this with you here.
And so, yeah, that's the quickintro on you, and I just want to
get warmed up with you and askwhat are we here for?
Why are we talking today?
Jordan Taylor (02:38):
Well, thank you, brian, again for having me in
this discussion, and there's alot we could talk about.
Even though we have beenworking together for a few years
now, I think it's beeninteresting for me to continue
to always have something thatI'm working on.
So what I'd love to dig intoday is an experience I'm
(03:01):
having where I am really tryingto lean into a moment of change.
My organization is goingthrough some exciting change.
We hired a couple of new people.
That started last week.
We have a pretty exciting,challenging, busy next six
(03:24):
months and beyond, and I'm inthe process of driving
organizational change to lead usthrough that period.
At the same time, there arethings that I have been working
on and I'm frustrated.
I'm frustrated because I feellike I have invested a lot in
(03:44):
trying to whether it be moreorganized, trying to spend my
time with more intention than Ifeel like I am trying to even
just be more on top offollow-ups and communications
with people, and these have beenthings that I have been saying
(04:09):
I wanted to change for a longtime and I have not been able to
do it.
I'm making progress, but notenough.
Brian Wang (04:19):
So just the first thing I'm struck by is you
started by talking about theorganizational change that
Medley is undergoing bigtransformation, underfoot,
making big decisions, and thenyou link that back into your own
change.
It sounds like you're lookingat this company and you're like,
oh wow, it's really going tolook different, we're really
(04:39):
going to go into a new place andyou're tying that into.
How do I want to change as partof that?
Or even just for myself?
So I'm wondering if I suspectwe're going to link both of
those and go back and forth abit today.
But you mentioned thefrustration.
Can you say a little bit more?
(05:00):
Just talk about when youimagine the change that you hope
to see on your end, the idealworld.
What does that actually looklike?
And then, as you talk aboutyour attempts, your efforts to
get there, what the frustrationhas been about.
Jordan Taylor (05:22):
So what does that actually look like?
Well, I think, if I could wavea magic wand, I would wake up
tomorrow and things would justbe different.
Brian Wang (05:33):
Different how.
Jordan Taylor (05:34):
I would look ahead at my day, feel confident
that I am spending every minuteon the most important things
that I should be spending timeon.
I would have an experience thatis more driving and pushing
things forward than reacting andresponding 13 hours of the day.
(05:59):
I would be more fulfilled fromthat.
I would feel more present, morein the moment, and I'd also be
really showing up with peopleand for my team and for all the
people that I engage with on adaily basis, with more presence
(06:24):
and integrity, and just on thatlast part, when you say showing
up for your people with presenceand integrity, how does it feel
like you're showing up to them?
now it feels like now I ammanaging a to-do list that will
(06:49):
never end, which is the life ofa startup CEO.
So I fully have accepted maybenot fully, but in theory I have
accepted that and signed up forit, and that is getting in the
way of me being able to dodeeper work like thinking,
writing, providing feedback onthings.
(07:12):
I'm constantly rushing frommeeting to meeting to meeting to
meeting, without space, andthat's hard for people who I
engage with because I know thatI could be more prepared.
I know I could do thingsdifferently, so it's frustrating
(07:35):
.
Brian Wang (07:35):
Yeah, okay.
So let me offer a reflectionand see what part of this land,
so I'm going to contrast twoorientations or ways of being
One I hear.
The ideal is that you saidthere's this intentionality,
that you know what you'refocused on each day.
(07:57):
There's I don't think you usethis word, but you know why
you're doing the thing you'redoing, and there's a fulfillment
which suggests that there issome purpose that you're
ultimately fulfilling, and sothe image I have in my mind is
you having a destination thatyou're driving toward.
(08:20):
It's like ah, this is thevision, the promised land.
If I'm like driving somewhere,I'm going from point A to point
B, I know where my point B is onthe map, and so everything that
I'm doing is organized aroundgetting to that endpoint.
Right, yeah, can I interruptfor a second?
Jordan Taylor (08:41):
Yeah, I think in my experience it feels more like
I know where I'm going, I seethe future and I'm in a car and
not holding on, not able tocontrol the wheels, and it's
like the earth is sort oftilting and then there's a
rainstorm and then this part ofthe car isn't working and I'm
(09:02):
like trying to hit theaccelerator, trying to go right
because I know that I need to goright and nothing's happening.
I'm sort of reacting and so I'mlike how do I fix the car or
fix something with how I'mdriving so I can go to where we
need to go?
Brian Wang (09:21):
Uh-huh.
So it's like something aboutthe vehicle itself and the
environment is getting in theway of getting to this
destination that you actuallycan see.
Jordan Taylor (09:31):
Yeah.
Brian Wang (09:32):
Okay, so in that analogy, what feels like the
wheel's not turning or the earthbeing uneven?
Jordan Taylor (09:51):
What's coming up immediately is my time, is just
the pulls on my time, and I'mtrying to think through what,
specifically in terms of it, isactually occupying space and
energy, and it feels a bit likea short-term, long-term
(10:19):
challenge where the things thatI'm doing every day are very
high urgency not necessarily themost important, but high
urgency and so those things getdone at the sacrifice of the
more important things that aremore long-term.
And then I would say there'ssomething in me that's even just
(10:42):
around me saying no to doingthings.
So if I look at just mycalendar and how I invest my
time, which is my only realresource that I have not my only
, but a critical one I have thisfantasy that I can do
(11:03):
everything, that I can geteverything done.
I can just work a little bitfaster.
And actually I can't, and Idon't really wanna believe that,
and so I keep saying, yeah,I'll get that to you on Thursday
.
Yeah, I'll meet you for lunch.
Yeah, I will do.
I will try to write up mythoughts on XYZ.
Brian Wang (11:24):
Right.
Jordan Taylor (11:25):
And it's like pretty unrealistic Okay.
Brian Wang (11:28):
Okay.
So it sounds like on anintellectual level, you can look
at the behavior and say okay.
Saying no feels important.
I do have a limited amount oftime each day, like all of us do
, and you're noticing yourselfbeing reactive, saying yes to
(11:49):
things, adding to the to-do list, working on the urgent and not
the important.
Jordan Taylor (11:54):
Right.
Brian Wang (11:55):
So let's stay there for a second.
You're seeing yourself do this,right.
You're seeing yourself notsaying no.
You're seeing yourself choosingto go after that kind of more
urgent sort of feeling thing,right?
So let's pretend now that youwere saying no to the requests
(12:16):
that are coming in and let's saythat you can notice the things
that feel urgent, but instead ofsaying yes to those, you'll say
not.
Right now I'm gonna go work onthe important things, the
important thing that's gonnaactually get me closer to that
destination.
And if you just take a momentto imagine, that's how, like
that's the space that you'reliving in, like what comes up
(12:37):
for you, what's, how does thatexperience in your mind strike
you?
Jordan Taylor (12:48):
I can see myself feeling happier, on the one hand
, that I have a more realisticand touch way of being with what
is possible in the constraintsof time, and also you know, I
intellectually know that thiswould unlock a lot, right, but I
(13:12):
emotionally am worried aboutletting people down and them not
valuing me because I'm notdoing what I not doing something
, or say I can't do something,and so it's kind of this people
pleasing situation and it's justthis trap that I feel, where I,
(13:36):
on the one hand I'm not doingwhat I'm doing, I'm not doing
what I'm doing On the one hand,I'm saying, oh, I need to be
more intentional with my time.
Brian Wang (13:49):
Right.
Jordan Taylor (13:50):
But, on the other hand, I've been saying this for
years and I'm a broken recordto be anyone who'll listen to me
about this and people have toldme, like you've been saying
this, like you control yourcalendar, change it, and yet
(14:10):
nothing has happened.
And it's just I can hear thefrustration.
Yeah.
Brian Wang (14:15):
Yeah, so I one.
I hear that you're reallypresent to some, some impulse to
not let people down.
That feels important to me justin hearing you, so let's hold
that.
But I also I'm really noticingthe frustration that you're
(14:36):
directing toward yourself at nothaving changed this.
Can you speak more to that?
Jordan Taylor (14:42):
Yes, I feel deeply that I I don't.
I just I'm angry with myselfthat I have not been able to do
these types of simple things,and that in itself is part of
the problem.
It's very difficult, todifficult, to go through, to be
(15:10):
in a car where there's a songplaying on repeat.
That's like you aren't drivingthe car well, like you know you
need to go right, just turn thewheel, like why aren't you going
right?
Just going on and on and on.
And I'm like okay, how do I notonly start moving the car to go
(15:36):
towards this destination butalso make the drive like more
enjoyable, like I want to put onsome music that is like calming
and fun, and that's what I'mlistening to.
Brian Wang (15:49):
So how often does the soundtrack, the thing that's
yelling at you, is that?
Is that the thing?
Okay, so it's like you'redriving and you're hearing the.
You're not doing a good enoughjob here.
Jordan Taylor (16:00):
This morning I woke up.
I woke up at six, 15.
I had to get into the city foran A45 meeting, I had to walk my
walker dog Howie, and I wantedto go for a run.
I had plenty of time to do bothof those things Cause I got up
at six, 15.
I was going to run to the cityand I didn't get out of bed for
(16:23):
an hour and since seven to 10 am, it's 2 30.
Every 10 minutes I'm like, oh,he wasted so much time this
morning.
Oh how did you not get a run inbefore you went into the city?
Like you ruined this day by notgetting out of bed earlier, and
(16:45):
nevermind fact that I got upand worked out in the morning on
Monday and Tuesday and I'm nottrying to go to the Olympics.
If I work out three days a week, that is a win, like it's fine,
probably not too bad.
But the voice in your head issaying that's not good enough
and that's like 6, 30, 6, 45, 7am On a Thursday morning.
Brian Wang (17:06):
Yeah.
Jordan Taylor (17:06):
I'm already starting at minus 30 points.
Brian Wang (17:10):
What happens to your like, so what happens to your
system when you, that voice isin your ear like, what, like,
what.
Do you notice?
Jordan Taylor (17:20):
I'm tense right now.
I'm tense right now, relivingthis experience like I feel
physically tense, I feel Anxious.
Yeah, I feel Also a little bitof like, okay, I need to go do
something now.
I need to like go prove that Ican do anything.
Brian Wang (17:39):
Yeah, proving to who ?
Jordan Taylor (17:43):
Evil person.
The soundtrack isn't even real,yeah.
Brian Wang (17:47):
Yeah, Okay.
Jordan Taylor (17:49):
I'm laughing, but it is not.
It is not like a, it's a.
It's a very difficultexperience I can.
Last week I had a experiencelike this where I spent two
hours in the morning doingnothing and I was sobbing Before
I went to work and then had tojust pull it together.
Brian Wang (18:08):
Yeah, like the day and the sobbing because you were
beating yourself up over it.
Jordan Taylor (18:11):
Yeah, so feeling so overwhelmed, so frustrated
yeah and just Panics that Imanaged to waste so much time.
Yeah and this is from 6 30 to 830 am.
Brian Wang (18:24):
Right, yeah, so we're mixing analogies here, but
yeah, you've heard how this iskind of like.
You know, like the soundtrackis just like really aggressive.
I just imagine, like you're,you're, you're, you're putting
the car in all different sortsof gears and the gears are just
grinding.
Yeah, it's hard to move becauseit's there's just all this
friction.
Jordan Taylor (18:42):
Yeah there.
Brian Wang (18:42):
There is this, that voice that's saying you're not
doing Whatever variation ofenough is right, and then it's
kind of like it paralyzes.
Jordan Taylor (18:53):
It's true.
Brian Wang (18:57):
What do you, what do you notice right now in your
experience, just as we'reengaging with this, and you said
there was some tension Is thattension still there?
Jordan Taylor (19:05):
Yes, I also feel some sadness because I feel a
genuine fear that I'm not gonnabe able to Shift the way I
experience my day-to-day.
Brian Wang (19:24):
Yeah.
Jordan Taylor (19:28):
So I feel sad about that because I feel like
it's just, it occupies a lot ofmy energy, a lot of my my brain
is just like Criticizing andpushing and frustrated.
Yeah, and you know, you know,when you meet people that are
(19:54):
angry towards others and they'rejust like you can feel it, you
can feel they're just kind of anangry person.
Brian Wang (20:01):
Yeah.
Jordan Taylor (20:03):
I'm like the opposite.
I feel like I've been smilingthis whole time while I describe
how I'm, like you know, sobbingin bed at 8 am For no reason.
Brian Wang (20:11):
Yeah.
Jordan Taylor (20:12):
I'm very.
I feel it's easy for me to bevery warm with others, but
inwardly it's like I'm a grumpy.
Yeah angry Mean, not even angrymean mean person.
Brian Wang (20:27):
Yeah, or just this particular voice.
Yeah that's kind of likeMeeting out the punishment.
Yeah feels really mean yeah, andand the part around where it
feels like you won't be able toshift out of that.
I Think that makes a lot ofsense, that why you would feel
(20:49):
some fear or some sadness aroundthat, right, if it's been going
on for so long and it's hard toSee a way out, then I can
imagine that would bring up someof those, those feelings.
So that that makes a lot ofsense.
And so I Wonder if we can movea little bit closer to this
(21:10):
actual Critical voice, ourtenant, our tendency is to say,
oh my god, this thing ispunishing me and I want to make
everything, do everythingpossible to make it stop.
But I wonder if we can maybeTry on some curiosity here and
really go and see, just kind offigure out what, what it's about
, right?
(21:30):
So when you're hearing thevoice, right, like, how do you
become aware of its presence?
Like, where do you, what do younotice that show up in your
body?
Jordan Taylor (21:50):
Doesn't really go away, but maybe my shoulders,
my hips, just yeah, I would saylike center more towards the
center of my core.
Brian Wang (22:03):
Yeah, and how would you describe it?
Jordan Taylor (22:05):
It's like a, like a tension, or like a yes,
tightness, yeah, tension andtightness and just Very region
yeah, yeah, okay, okay.
Brian Wang (22:17):
So it's really like stiff, yeah, yeah, Okay.
So if you just place yourattention there for a moment,
right, and let's, let's, let'shave you try this, let's
interview it a little bit, let'stry to get to know it a little
bit, right, so, okay, we knowwhat it does.
Yells at you, tells you likeyou're not doing a good enough
(22:41):
job, right, like what's itsintent?
What's, what is it trying to dohere?
Get me to do things.
Jordan Taylor (22:50):
Yeah, one way to get me to Like motivation?
I think so.
To get me to Get out of bed andWalk, howie.
To get me to prepare for ameeting, to get me to Write
(23:12):
things down?
Brian Wang (23:17):
So there are a whole bunch of tasks that feel like
I'm guessing even you can agreeyou want to do, yeah, and so it
sounds like the way it's reallytrying to get you to do that is
to just go yell at you.
Jordan, get going, you're notdoing this fast enough.
(23:39):
You've been sleeping for 15minutes Now.
It's been 30 minutes, so on andso forth, yeah, and so what
makes it think that yelling atyou is really the most efficient
way here to motivate?
Jordan Taylor (23:59):
I think that I think I'm naturally a lazy
person.
I don't think that's true, butin my mind I think if I'm left
to my own devices.
I just won't do anything.
I'm just sitting on the couchand just not do anything.
(24:20):
So I think that this has beenhow I've tried to get myself
motivated to just do anything.
Brian Wang (24:34):
Is that how you ended up starting Medley?
You noticed you were lazy andthen you yelled at yourself to
go start the company.
Jordan Taylor (24:41):
No, that's not funny enough?
Definitely not, because I alsolike doing difficult things.
So I'm not actually.
I have not a lot of examples inmy past of choosing not to do
the thing or to do anything, andmany of my most meaningful
(25:06):
experiences have been meactively seeking challenge.
Brian Wang (25:13):
Name a couple of examples, just to activate this
a little bit.
Jordan Taylor (25:16):
I was a junior in college and I joined the crew
team and we were a varsitylightweight rower.
For two years I had never, donea crew before.
Brian Wang (25:27):
What got you excited about that?
I really was thinking on a team.
Jordan Taylor (25:30):
I wanted to try something new and I liked it.
It was fun.
Brian Wang (25:36):
What was the most fun part of it?
Jordan Taylor (25:39):
Just being out there, being out on the water.
I loved having the structure ofjust knowing I had practiced
Monday, Tuesday, wednesday,thursday, friday and Saturday.
I loved feeling like I waslearning something new.
I loved doing that with otherpeople and getting to know the
other people.
(26:00):
I liked feeling and seeingmyself make progress in a pretty
measurable way.
I liked being outside.
It was a highlight of mycollege experience, for sure.
(26:22):
Everyone thought I was nutsbecause only other freshmen were
walking on who had no idea whatcollege was actually like.
I had college as a non-athleteand I was like no, I miss the
structure, I miss that process.
Brian Wang (26:42):
It sounds like you said it was the highlight.
You kicked your butt, probably,and there was a lot of
challenge to it too.
There was so much that youappreciated and enjoyed about
that.
Let's take another example.
Maybe it's medley, maybe it'ssomething else.
Let's find another examplewhere you went after something
(27:02):
that was really exciting,fulfilling.
Jordan Taylor (27:08):
I mean, medley is definitely exciting for me, and
it has been.
I had no idea what it wouldactually be like to try to build
a company.
I knew it would be challenging.
I had worked at an early stagestartup before I went to
business school.
I worked really closely withthe CEO, who's still a good
(27:30):
friend, and I saw just howintense the experience was for
him.
I still thought and do want todo it.
I view the intensity assomething that I'm seeking out
and moving towards.
Brian Wang (27:55):
You just gave me two examples where you saw
something that was challengingand exciting and you went after
them.
It seems to really fly in theface of this narrative of you
being lazy.
Jordan Taylor (28:08):
I also like running and I run a bunch of
half marathons, maybe 15 orsomething like that.
I don't even know.
Brian Wang (28:19):
This doesn't sound like someone who's lazy when
they're left to their owndevices, by the way.
Jordan Taylor (28:24):
Yeah, you know, there's the logical brain and
there's the other brain thatdoes not think very clearly.
But in my head a common storythat I will agree is probably
not very valid, doesn't have alot of legs is that if I don't
(28:48):
really push myself, I won't doanything and I will just atrophy
and just sit on the couch.
Brian Wang (28:56):
Where'd you learn that?
Jordan Taylor (29:02):
Could be that I play a lot of sports as a kid
and so if you stopped playing asport or practicing or running,
that does happen to your body.
But I would say my childhood isjust more generally.
I had a lot of activities and alot of structure to my day that
(29:25):
was imposed on me.
Things I liked, but I wouldhave school.
I'd have Taekwondo, ballet pianotennis, soccer, ice hockey I
did a lot of differentactivities and so I had a lot of
structured time.
So I did have a lot ofunshuture time where I was just
sort of existing and so maybe aspart of that, I thought okay, I
(29:54):
don't have a practice to go toright now, so I am going to sit
on the couch, which makes sense,because I was probably tired.
Brian Wang (29:59):
But I'm not Right.
I was just starting to thinklike, at what point are you
resting here?
Yeah, Thank you.
So you, you grew up around alot of structure.
There's all these differentthings.
You were going back and forth,you know, from to, etc.
By the way, it sounds a littlebit like your to-do list today,
but I digress, okay.
(30:22):
So so Nowhere in there am Ihearing real evidence that
Jordan Taylor, like when just isleft to exist, becomes some
sort of you know, motivation wasblob like.
I don't hear any of that.
Jordan Taylor (30:48):
Yeah, meaning mean either.
Brian Wang (30:51):
Let's, let's try something is my not translate
well and in the podcast, butwhatever.
So, like, just take a moment tojust do nothing right here.
Just be you, be here with meand just like, tune in to how it
feels to be here, tune intoyour internal sensations, right?
(31:14):
No like thing that you have todo absolutely right now.
There's no one yelling at youRight now to do anything.
What impulses do you notice?
Jordan Taylor (31:29):
come up, I wanted to have a sip of water because
I have a water bottle next to me.
Actually, I'm an urge to standup.
I was thinking about how littletime I might get myself to do
(31:53):
nothing.
Actually even though I end updoing nothing as a result of
trying to avoid something, butyou do nothing to avoid
something.
Sorry, yeah, I think thismorning.
I was probably tired and Ididn't feel like going for a run
.
That's why I didn't get out ofbed and Like I think, try, try
(32:17):
something try, try, doing try.
Brian Wang (32:21):
Fully owning what you just said, enjoying the fact
that your body was saying I'mtired and I just decided to go
spend some more time in bed.
Give that a try, rather thanmake this like a shameful thing.
I'm tired, and so I decided togive us a little bit more time
in bed in the morning, beforestarting my day.
Jordan Taylor (32:43):
I yeah, how did that feel.
Brian Wang (32:49):
Luxurious.
Jordan Taylor (32:55):
Feels Very kind, feels Like Also pretty
reasonable, also prettyreasonable.
Brian Wang (33:16):
Zürich is kind of reasonable.
Jordan Taylor (33:18):
Yeah, doesn't see , doesn't feel that Little
off-brand for me off-brand fromlike the mean leg, yeah, and
just like how could I possiblywaste that much time doing
nothing?
Yeah, but also feels better toframe it that way because I, I
(33:43):
think I probably I was tired,and if I wasn't tired I would
have gotten up right and somaybe it's not that I didn't get
up because I was just lazy and.
Like don't have enoughdiscipline.
Maybe it was that I didn't feellike getting up and I felt like
Sitting in bed and looking atInstagram and New York Times and
(34:04):
just this is making me wonder,jordan.
Brian Wang (34:06):
So so you know we've been talking about how this you
know, this internal criticyells at you Constantly and I it
makes me wonder, like how muchof the yelling is Getting in the
way of you just recognizing theneeds that you have and taking
care of those needs?
How much is it preventing youfrom just fully owning your
(34:33):
decisions?
Jordan Taylor (34:35):
a Lot.
It's definitely preventing youfrom doing that, because I'm not
.
I'm not behaving as though Ihave Needs that are valuable or
should be valued and areimportant and behaving instead
like I Need to do as much as Ipossibly can, and that's the
(35:01):
only thing that matters.
Yeah that's the only you sortof indicator of how good I am or
how effective I am, or orAnything what, what's coming up
for you guys?
Brian Wang (35:13):
you're saying that.
What are you feeling?
Jordan Taylor (35:21):
I mean, I definitely I'm feeling.
I'm feeling like I Am seeingthis a little bit more clearly.
I'm seeing it more clearly inthe sense that I I do really
value myself on how much I'mgetting done and how much I'm,
how productive I am, which issad because I'm not very
(35:49):
productive and so every day Ifeel bad about myself that I'm
not Getting enough done on mylist and I'm not valuing the
things that I actually Am doingand that I'm really great at.
Yeah, and that's so.
So it's, it's, it's.
I feel like I'm in a Trapbecause I'm everyday looking at
(36:10):
a scoreboard.
I'm thinking oh, I said I wasgoing to Follow-up on my our
benefit renewals by the end ofthe day and I haven't done it
yet.
Like today was a horrible day.
Yeah, and I'm not saying I, I'mgiving myself a scoreboard for
(36:32):
something that I think is kindof unfair and also I'm always
going to lose at because there'salways going to be more things
to do.
Right the incidence and notgiving myself points, for I had
this great meeting with acustomer.
I had a great meeting with oneof with one of our colleagues.
Like we, you know I I'm reallygood at some things and I don't
(36:56):
give myself any credit for thosethings.
Brian Wang (37:00):
I I'm actually good at.
Is there actually a point whereyou know you will have been so
productive in your days that youthat now you feel good about
yourself?
Jordan Taylor (37:10):
No, because the second.
You just climb something offthe list.
Something else comes on thelist, especially when you're not
fully controlling list.
So it's, it's, it's.
I'm setting myself up forfailure.
Brian Wang (37:24):
Yeah.
Jordan Taylor (37:25):
Because I'm looking at the wrong benchmark
or measure of that.
Brian Wang (37:33):
So, since we're talking about benchmarks and
measures, right.
So if it, if you were to say,okay, I'm not going to measure
the success of my days by somestandard of infinite
productivity, I'm not going togo rest my head, you know, right
before bed and say I'm notgoing to measure the failure of
success because I got some crazyamount of stuff done, how would
(37:57):
you actually want to assessyour days, how, how would you
want to really rate the successor failure of your days if it
weren't just this, you know,productivity thing?
Jordan Taylor (38:07):
It's like oh, I had fun today, I learned
something interesting.
I am proud that I helpedsomeone do something or learn
something.
I formed this new interestingrelationship.
I researched something that isinteresting.
I spent time with people I love, like my husband, my dog, my
(38:30):
family, my friends so many otherthings.
Brian Wang (38:39):
A lot of what you just said.
Those things feel like they'rereally important to you.
Jordan Taylor (38:43):
Yeah, they are important to me.
I've somehow, in these momentsI lose sight of that, or I think
, feeling like I'm makingprogress, feeling like I'm in
contributing and impactingmedley is also very important to
(39:06):
me, sure, and I think that's achallenge of operating at an
early stage.
Brian Wang (39:14):
So let's bring it back to that.
So if it's not about I dideverything on my to-do list and
to infinity right, Because,there is that infinite right
With medley.
What's enough.
What's enough for a day.
Jordan Taylor (39:43):
I find it hard to answer that because my mind
immediately thinks nothing isenough, Like I should be doing
as much as I can in a given dayBecause we have a lot to do and
limited resources and limitedtime.
Brian Wang (40:02):
Yeah, so yeah, I wonder.
Every day you're thinking ohman, this is not enough.
Jordan Taylor (40:07):
Yeah.
Brian Wang (40:08):
Yeah, I think we're hitting on the thing that is
driving a lot of the harshnessand the criticism.
You've set yourself up withthis game that is essentially
unwinnable, like some image ofsomeone who's like infinitely
(40:32):
productive, always perfect,always doing the thing that
feels like you're checking outthe next task right, always
locked in, and somewhere alongthe way you kind of lose sight
of what you need, like anexample is where you need rest,
and also you lose sight of thethings that are really, really
(40:53):
important, both personally andto the company, because the game
that you're focused on is doingeverything Right, because
nowhere in there is is there anydefinition of enough that
(41:17):
really feels like it reflects myexperience and I'm thinking now
, you know what are other games?
Jordan Taylor (41:30):
that I can focus on, to try to distract, deflect
away from this very impossiblegame that I've decided to play
instead.
Brian Wang (41:41):
It's not about distracting.
It's not about distracting anddeflecting.
That almost suggests that youknow it's still running the show
it does.
But you run the show, yeahRight, and it has to decide on
what the game is.
Jordan Taylor (42:07):
I don't know if I can do it.
Brian Wang (42:10):
Let's tell you that.
Jordan Taylor (42:14):
I don't know if I can really let go of like this
aspiration to be getting thingsdone all the time, but at the
same time, you know you can'tlike keep doing the same thing
(42:36):
and expecting different results.
Right, and that's what I'vebeen doing.
Brian Wang (42:41):
What's so?
Yeah, I can see theintellectual part of you coming
on here.
What's the scary part aboutletting go of this idea?
What happens like what happensif you let go of it.
Jordan Taylor (43:03):
I'm trying to figure that out.
I just don't.
I don't.
I don't get feeling and havethe belief that I can, but it
feels so important to me as aperson, it feels like.
(43:25):
So I don't feel like I have anydistance between the critical
voice in my head and who I amyeah, as Jordan, and so it's.
Brian Wang (43:36):
So if you were to drop that, then you would lose
Jordan.
Jordan Taylor (43:40):
Yeah, or it's just is it.
Is that even possible?
I mean Change is possible withhumans.
Brian Wang (43:53):
You run a coaching company after all.
Jordan Taylor (43:56):
I do believe that .
I believe I have the capacityto grow and I'm learning,
growing all the time, in a lotof different ways.
So why is this one thingdifferent?
(44:17):
From all the other ways that Ibelieve I can, and I believe
other people can grow and learn.
Brian Wang (44:24):
Right.
Jordan Taylor (44:34):
Maybe I just need to try.
Brian Wang (44:36):
What would that look like?
Jordan Taylor (44:41):
Maybe I could, every time I feel the criticism
coming, try to Ignore it orThink of something else I'm
(45:08):
still kind of deflecting, but orsay you know I'm I'm letting go
like.
Brian Wang (45:23):
Have you tried deflection and ignoring in the
past?
Jordan Taylor (45:30):
No, yeah, not really.
Brian Wang (45:36):
So how do you typically relate to it when you
notice the criticism?
I'm just trying to get into itand you what you believe it.
Jordan Taylor (45:46):
And I just go down the spiral.
Yeah, I just keep thinking,thinking, thinking.
You know, I had like an hourfree before this and I was
trying to finish something andup until three minutes before, I
was like why haven't you beenable to write this?
You need to write it.
(46:06):
Just True, battering for 57minutes and I stopped because
I'm here now.
Yeah, but yeah, I just like Itry to just focus on the thing.
The voice shows up Veryuncomfortable.
Brian Wang (46:26):
Right.
Jordan Taylor (46:28):
And it gets in the way of me doing what I'm
trying to do, because insteadI'm beating myself up over the
thing that I'm writing or doingor Trying to Focus on I'm has a
lot of power in my mind.
But I already am definitelytaking away that if I believe I
(46:50):
can change a lot of other thingsabout myself and that other
people can grow.
I think I need to remember that, like, why should I be some
exception to like a corephilosophy of how I think about
people?
Yeah, and humanity.
Brian Wang (47:05):
Right, right, and so A lot of what we're talking
about is, in essence, how yourelate To this voice,
recognizing that it is not you,it's a part of you that is
(47:29):
trying to get you to dosomething, presumably with some
positive intent, but it's takenon the strategy of yelling at
you, right, criticizing you and,as you've noted, it kind of
Beats you down, paralyzes you,right, and so then I think that
(47:49):
the question just becomes how doyou start to Relate to this
voice in a way that creates somemore spaciousness for you,
right?
Recognizing that you are not thevoice?
It's there.
We can choose to relate to itin any number of ways Believe it
, argue with it, ignore it,right, you know, give it a snack
(48:14):
and you know, put it.
Put it in the backseat of thecar, to the badge of the the car
analogy, right, but there's a.
There's probably an infinitenumber of ways to engage with it
.
The first step is to evenrecognize that it's operating,
right, mm-hmm.
And Then, from there, start toexperiment like okay, how can I
(48:38):
actually relate to this in a waythat gives me feeling more
empowered Than I currently am?
Jordan Taylor (48:45):
When you're describing that, it reminds me
of.
I did a yoga teacher trainingin 2016 200 hour one and as part
of that, we meditated for 30minutes every day or more, and
it's like basic principle ofenter, goal of meditation or the
(49:07):
way they would describe it, noteven goal, but the process
itself imagining your thoughts,kind of going through and, and
you're observing that sort ofgoing through and moving through
your head and just bring itback and recognizing that you
Can choose to relate to thething In whatever way you want.
(49:29):
It can be a big, powerfulthought, or it could be
something let's just starteddancing through and then it
keeps going, and I definitelyfeel now and Even just this, I
do feel reminded that I do havesome agency.
(49:52):
Yeah how I choose to relate toyou, this critical voice.
Brian Wang (49:59):
Yeah, yeah, I Think that's what you just said is
huge.
The agency part, right?
Yes, earlier you were saying Idon't even think I can Right.
There's some belief that, likeI'm sort of yeah, yeah, and, and
so I Think you know to to takethis forward for you, what I
(50:19):
would offer is maybe Experimentwith just that, like how can I
actually have some agency?
In this relationship With this,with this voice, right, yeah,
what would that look like foryou?
Jordan Taylor (50:32):
Yeah, Thank you.
Brian Wang (50:37):
Yeah, let me know how that goes for you, please.
Jordan Taylor (50:41):
I will.
Brian Wang (50:43):
All right, jordan, thanks so much for spending the
time with me today.
Jordan Taylor (50:46):
Thanks, Brian.
Brian Wang (50:48):
Okay, talk soon.
There's a lot to unpack here.
Let me share my three majorinsights what our limiting
beliefs hold incredible powerover us.
Jordan shared many like doingeverything means she's a good
person that she can't actuallychange, that she's inherently
lazy, that she needs to be meanto herself to get motivated.
These sort of beliefs don'thappen overnight.
(51:09):
They are conditioned into usover time.
It's on us to identify our ownlimiting beliefs and see which
of those we can let go of to.
Emotional regulation is halfthe battle.
It blew my mind the first timeI heard that procrastination is
not a time management problem.
It's an emotional regulationproblem.
The issue with shaming andcriticizing ourselves is that
(51:30):
it's highly inefficient.
It's like screaming an athleteright before they make a play,
kicking their nervous systeminto a Disregulated mess.
We are far more efficient whenwe are calm, grounded and
self-compassionate.
Finally, our parts need ourattention.
If you're familiar with partswork, you know that we are made
up of many individual parts thatserve different functions.
(51:52):
Jordan shared how it felt likethere was no distance between
her and her critical voice.
So the first thing is to pauselong enough to see that that
unhelpful voice is not who weare, but some part of our
conditioning, then, rather thanignore or fight it, I found that
the key is to treat it withrespect, without buying into its
story.
That allows us to take back ouragency, while showing
(52:14):
compassion for our quote-unquoteless helpful parts.
This can open the door tobetter understanding the critic
and why it behaves the way itdoes, and that is the start of a
Profound and important healingjourney, one that I think most
founders can benefit from.
Thank you for listening toslowdown to speed up.
If you enjoyed this podcast,please rate it in your favorite
(52:35):
podcasting app.
If you are a founder who wouldlike help in reaching the next
level through coaching, or ifyou'd like to come on the show,
please contact me at dashingleadership comm.
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