May 28, 2024 • 51 mins
Cristina Poindexter is a serial entrepreneur who finds herself wondering how to make a new move in her career without burning out. She's no stranger to ambition - she's founded 2 companies and has worked at places like Google and Headspace. After leaving her last venture, she fears not being able to achieve her potential while being her authentic self.
Watch as we explore what happens when we allow her fear to show up and express itself right in the session.
Chapters
7:10 Navigating Time and Alignment in Work
10:51 Exploring Authenticity and Meaningful Connections
20:21 Navigating Expectations and Authenticity in Business
39:50 Allowing Fear and Anger
46:57 The Power of Language and Self-Compassion
Enjoyed this episode? Ready to take your leadership and personal growth to the next level? Please visit my website to learn more about coaching with me.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brian Wang (00:01):
Hey, Christina, great to see you.
Cristina Poindexter (00:03):
Good to see you, Brian.
Brian Wang (00:04):
Yeah, I'm really excited to get on this session
with you and just to speak tothe audience real quick, just as
a quick intro.
I'm with Christina Poindextertoday and she is an experienced
tech wellness entrepreneur.
Before this session started shesaid don't spend too much time
introing me, we'll just jumpright into it.
So I'm going to honor that andChristina, hand it over to you
(00:24):
and just give you a chance tospend a moment to introduce
yourself, if you like, and thenotherwise we'll just jump right
into what we're here for.
Cristina Poindexter (00:36):
Today Sounds good, brian.
Yeah, hello to all of thelisteners.
Thank you guys for being here.
I am a wellness entrepreneur.
I have founded twoventure-backed businesses, both
in the mental health space.
The first one was in the AIspace and the second one was a
brain health and nutritioncompany, so that one was a
little bit more in the CPG space.
I've also spent a lot of timeat Google and Headspace, so
(00:58):
that's where you get the techand the marketing backgrounds as
well.
Overall, you meet me at ajuncture where I am very much
figuring out what to do next.
Have been helping various folksin the consulting and advising
space for the past year, butthat is sort of what Brian and I
are probably going to get intotoday.
Brian Wang (01:18):
Yeah, so this reminds me a little bit about
our call from from earlier.
But there was that question oflike what's next, right?
Cristina Poindexter (01:24):
What do I?
Brian Wang (01:25):
want to do next?
Yeah, so just yeah, maybe I'llinvite you to expand on that
question.
It's kind of a big one and so,just like in the context of our
time here, maybe just frame itup a little bit and we'll see
where we go with it.
Cristina Poindexter (01:39):
Yeah, yeah.
So I made the decision to leavethe last company that I
co-founded in May of last yearso almost exactly a year ago and
very much needed a break.
Right after you're in thestartup trenches for a while,
you know, you certainly need apause, both to recoup energy but
also to kind of reorient, like,okay, where am I going here?
(02:00):
What's important in life,what's the point?
You know, and just recalibrate,and I thought that process
would take me maybe a quarter,um, one year later, I feel like
I am still in the thick of it,um, and not at all necessarily
in a bad way, but um, you know,just in a very reflective place
of wanting to protect my timeand energy and very much like
(02:25):
form, this next chapter of mylife and work in ways that are
healthy for myself andmeaningful.
And I do think that thatinvestigation has led me to go a
little bit slower than I everhave in my life or in my career,
because I've done a lot ofthings.
I've worked the corporate world,I've worked late stage startup,
(02:48):
I've founded two early stagestartups and in the past year,
experimented as well withconsulting and advising, which
is a whole new model, and I'mnow at this juncture where I
want to kind of commit tosomething again in a bigger way,
and that feels heavy, it feelslike it comes with a lot of
(03:10):
gravitas and there's probably agood amount of fear of making
the wrong decision that's goingto end up.
You know, I have kind of anengine inside me that I can
overdo it and it has allowed meto build some big things and run
teams and do kind of big shinystuff.
But it's come every time at apersonal cost, and so I'm really
(03:31):
trying to figure out how do I,how do I not keep doing that?
Because this is not the firsttime I got burned out, it's not
the second time, you know.
It's probably in the third orthe fourth time.
And yeah, you know it's probablyin the third or the fourth time
.
And you know, when you're inthat that orientation, it's kind
of like nothing is worth yourown happiness at the end of the
day.
And yet, you know, I still wantto contribute to the world, I
(03:56):
still want to bring in income, Istill, you know, have these
needs to engage.
And so, like what, what do Iengage with and how do I engage
with the working world?
That's the inquiry that I'm in.
Brian Wang (04:10):
Great yeah.
So just right off the bat, itsounds like you've had a lot of
experience in going at a certainspeed and being on.
I'll check with you and see ifthis feels right, like the
achievement treadmill.
Cristina Poindexter (04:23):
Yeah.
Brian Wang (04:24):
And at great cost.
You end up with burnout and ithas certain impacts on you.
And now, at this juncture, itsounds like simultaneously,
you're looking to reenter thespace with a sense of purpose,
(04:44):
of something that feels reallyaligned with you and that you
really want to meet.
The condition of this is goingto be energizing, sustainable,
is actually in service of my ownhealth and wellness.
Do those things fit as I saythat?
Cristina Poindexter (05:01):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I'll say one additionalthing, fit as I say that yeah,
absolutely, and it's.
I'll say one additional thing.
It's like in, in, you know,being someone who has shifted
herself more towards likemission oriented work, in the
sense of I really do care abouthow people are, right, like
there.
There have been too many timeswhere I get kind of lost in the
(05:22):
headiness of that, talking aboutscale and talking about impact
and talking about numbers, andit comes down to like, am I
actually taking care of myself?
Like how am I?
It's like that, like oxygenmask.
On first analogy, right, and Ithink, wellness entrepreneurs
themselves are kind of on thefront lines figuring out how do
we shift the culture around workand wellness, because what's
(05:45):
the whole point if I'm out heretrying to better other people's
mental health and yet mine issuffering?
Like I have to reorient all ofthat.
And so I'm in the investigationof like, how do I actually
orient towards, like the modelsI could choose of?
Brian Wang (05:59):
how.
Cristina Poindexter (06:00):
I provide services in the world.
Brian Wang (06:02):
Right.
Cristina Poindexter (06:04):
And like then the next step is okay.
How do I actually do work thathelps other people's wellness?
Brian Wang (06:10):
Right.
Cristina Poindexter (06:10):
That's kind of a dual task to to figure out
.
Brian Wang (06:15):
You said you've been in the inquiry for some time.
What has it uncovered so far?
Cristina Poindexter (06:20):
Um, well, it has uncovered that, uh,
flexibility of scheduling isincredibly important and there's
some things that like, uh,other people just assume is like
normal, now that should be fine.
Like, oh, can you just send meyour Calendly link?
And it's like I can't doCalendly, like I actually cannot
(06:44):
decide one schedule of timethat I'm going to be free for
the foreseeable future, and like, provide that out into the
world and guarantee that myenergy is going to be like as
people expect it all of the time.
Right, and so that's an exampleof something that I've learned
over the years, which is likeactually better for me to
maintain control over so that Ican be perceptive in a much more
(07:07):
kind of live way.
Do I have energy for this typeof a thing at this point in my
journey, because everything isalways unfolding?
It's not the strategic heady.
Oh, there's this like lineargoal that I'm going towards, and
like I can see that this thingis going to be in the direction
of that linear goal.
It's like a very different wayof orienting, and I think that
(07:31):
time and scheduling is actuallylike the front lines of that,
and so one thing that I haveloved both about being a founder
and consulting and advising isthat I do have the ability to
candidly, like, maintain controlof my time, and there's 16 hour
days where I have tons ofenergy and I'm in the flow and
(07:53):
I'm doing stuff, and thenthere's days where it's like,
honestly, I have to cleareverything and get back into
visioning space and reorientmyself to what I'm doing and why
and like.
That does not seem to mesh in acorporate working world for me,
or it just hasn't.
So that's, that's one learning.
I think there's probably many,but I'll just leave it at that,
yeah.
Brian Wang (08:12):
So so having control over time, um, I hear, like
that there's there's somethingthat you've learned about
yourself, which is that you it'sit's far healthier for you to
be able to, like, tune into howyou're feeling, how you're
perceiving things, how you'rerelating to things as they
unfold.
(08:32):
It's never one thing.
It's evolving and there's aneed for you to stay connected
to that.
And as long as you're stayingconnected to that, then you can,
from that place, make decisionson what commitment you're going
to make, what meeting you mightschedule, what commitment
you're going to make, whatmeeting you might schedule, what
task you're going to take on.
And I also hear there'spotentially a friction there
between that way of operatingand what certain jobs, for
(08:57):
example, might demand of you orrequire of you.
So my sense is there's sometension there.
As one piece of this, Does thatfeel right?
Cristina Poindexter (09:06):
Absolutely yeah, yeah.
Brian Wang (09:10):
You mentioned that there's a couple other things at
least that, going back to thatquestion around, like what have
you uncovered in the inquiry?
That I'm also curious, mightfeel salient here.
Cristina Poindexter (09:21):
Yeah, you know, I think that there's,
especially in the early part ofmy career at Google, I was
probably the most ambitious Iever was and you know I was very
(09:42):
willing to put in crazy hoursand put my nose to the
grindstone and get anything doneand learn anything and figure
it out.
You know, and like just runfreneticism that was associated
(10:07):
with ambition, which has shiftedover the years as I've gotten
more and more aligned withorganizations and missions and
work that feels more core tolike what I'm kind of here to do
in the world and that kind ofsounds potentially woo woo, but
what I've learned is like thecloser I get to that alignment,
the more, the more I'm able torest in the trenches of the work
(10:29):
.
And so I've had enough kind ofglimmers of what that feels like
where, like you are so in theflow in a partnerships meeting
or, you know, in a pitchconversation, or you know
managing a direct report, or youknow in a pitch conversation,
or you know managing a directreport, or you know writing a
blog post where it is flow stateand there's a calm in it.
(10:51):
And so what I'm seeking now inmy work is like I'm really so,
so tired of that energy, of theadrenaline fueled frenetic,
restless drive.
That's actually a signal thatsomething's off yeah, and so I'm
really searching for in thework that I do is like the
(11:11):
feeling of being in it right, um, and it's even like.
The feeling of this conversationfor me is like it's natural,
it's I'm not trying to get anysort of agenda across genuinely
just showing up as me andthere's something in that which
is the whole point and so, likethat, the easy way to kind of
(11:32):
term that is like oh, I'velearned that wellness is my lane
, right, but there's somethingthat I've gotten these glimmers
of, like, oh, there's somethingabout one-on-one conversations
that's my lane, comes across.
There's something around, youknow, food and movement and
mindfulness that's my lane andthere's something in there,
right.
Brian Wang (11:52):
Yeah.
Cristina Poindexter (11:53):
I have all these like hints.
Brian Wang (11:54):
Yeah.
Cristina Poindexter (11:55):
Right, and now I'm just like, okay, well,
like, how do I put thesetogether into like what I signal
to the world of?
Like this is what I'm now doing, or like this is what I'm
looking for, or this is how Ican serve you, or these are the
services I offer, right, um, andjust packaging myself, even as
someone who's good at marketing,is actually really hard.
Brian Wang (12:17):
Right.
Cristina Poindexter (12:18):
Um, yeah.
Brian Wang (12:22):
I want to just reflect on that for a moment.
So you use that term like in mylane.
You were describing like beingin the flow.
Part of what came up for me asI was listening to you was like
in those moments when you canjust be fully yourself, like
you're not having to perform orbe somebody different, beyond
(12:45):
just who Christina is, is whereit's feeling, in that flow state
, in that aligned state.
I just want to check and see ifthat's, if I'm touching on what
that kind of experience is likefor you.
Cristina Poindexter (12:59):
Yeah, and most roles have felt
claustrophobic to me, even afounder role, and it's like
being called a marketer feelsclaustrophobic because I do
things outside of marketing.
Being a consultant feelsclaustrophobic because I do
things outside of consulting,right when I when I've started
(13:21):
to identify with it as like whoI am.
I start to get that restlessfeeling again, cause it's like,
oh, what if?
What if?
What I actually want to bedoing today is like outside of
the founder role or outside ofthis role, and that's as I'm
orienting back into the workingworld, it's still, I think,
necessary to to help otherpeople understand, like how you
(13:45):
do envision yourself partakingand providing value.
Yeah, like what?
What words do I use?
Right, like that does matter.
Brian Wang (13:54):
Yeah yeah.
It communicates ideas, itcreates legibility, and it
occurs to me that there's adistinction between the label
that you use to describeyourself versus what you are
offering for other people, andso I wonder if we would just
(14:16):
play with that for a second.
Let's just say that you droppedany need to have a label for
who Christinaina is she's inthis box or this box and instead
your attention were on whatyou're really wanting to bring
forth for others.
Right, when you're putting yourattention on that question,
what comes up for you?
Cristina Poindexter (14:37):
what comes up is I I really enjoy going
deep with people.
You know, like I really enjoygoing deep with people, I really
enjoy going under the surfacelevel stuff and getting into the
territory of what isunconscious or messy or not seen
or not understood and kind ofsurfacing it and making sense of
it all.
And that's really general.
(15:00):
It happens in many differentrealms, but like when I'm in
positions where I'm able to dothat, like I'm most comfortable
in those places, like I'm mostlike at ease, because it feels
meaningful what makes it reallyimportant to you um, um, I think
(15:28):
it's very easy to go throughlife on autopilot and, um, I've
gone through life on autopilotmany years.
Still do it, um, and I?
(15:50):
I don't think that's the point,uh huh, yeah, and it's like
some of the most interestingparts of people are in the
things that happen, like afterthe meeting, between
conversations in the hallway,like you know, in the gym, like
(16:10):
you know in these kind of likeoff spaces and like that's.
That's where people's humanitykind of shines through.
And I, I love seeing people'shumanity like come back.
It's like the, the rosy intheir cheeks come back, right,
yeah, and like that stuffdoesn't really you have to kind
(16:32):
of go deep to get to that stuff,and what's that experience been
like for you?
Brian Wang (16:37):
that getting the rosiness back in your own cheeks
and getting back to your ownhumanity.
Cristina Poindexter (16:42):
It's been a long and windy path that has
had a lot of different chapters.
So I yeah, I've had a lot ofchapters to like my personal
wellness practices and I grew upwith you know, bless them very
ambitious parents that you knowdrove my sister and I very hard
(17:05):
towards achievement and towardsIvy League and towards you know
what externally you know was, is, can be stamps of approval and
safety in the world Right andbecame kind of a machine and
became very good at what I didthere and got there and was, you
(17:26):
know, had some very seriousmental health stuff come up.
And so for me, the path there'sbeen many chapters of my path
kind of back right ordeconditioning myself, but it's
like I had a major yoga chapter,I had a major meditation
chapter, I had a major recently,I've had a major dance chapter,
I've had a journaling chapter,I've had a food and nutrition
(17:50):
chapter, I've had a sobriety youknow, getting rid of alcohol
chapter, and all of thesedifferent chapters have brought
me into what feel like deeper,deeper, more real versions of
myself that let me drop intothat calm place of like, just
(18:11):
showing up as me.
And like when I show up as me.
That's what.
That's what has helped me dowhat feels like meaningful work.
Brian Wang (18:21):
Yeah, and so when you're fully showing up as you,
what does that enable you tocreate with others?
Cristina Poindexter (18:49):
It typically involves creating
something out of nothing thatcould be a company, that could
be various things, and itrequires feeling.
It requires getting into thebody and feeling and like
getting out of the head, out ofthe mind, out of story, out of
(19:11):
narrative.
Brian Wang (19:12):
What are you feeling right now?
Cristina Poindexter (19:18):
A little bit of like tightness of breath
in the sense that, like, I'mneeding to actually articulate
things into words in thisconversation, right, um, as like
that is the medium throughwhich we are engaging.
Is words, right, that is how weare interacting, um, and I
(19:39):
think there's like a there's,there's, there's always people
like in, in showing up to anyconversation, there's what
someone says, what someone lookslike, but then there's all the
other stuff.
There's like the body language.
There's just the energetic feelof what's going on, right, and I
find like there's so muchrichness in that that that I
(20:03):
personally pick up on all thetime and have felt in my life
that I've had to control it inorder to be accepted by whatever
community that I'm in, if I'mshowing up on a pitch, there's a
certain way that I always feltlike I had to show up.
There was something at the endof my last you know of Parable
(20:25):
was the name of my last companyI just kind of stopped caring
about that.
I just couldn't.
I was so tired that I wouldjust like let all that stuff
drop.
And that's actually when Irealized like there's there's no
amount of acceptance in thisworld through a check, you know,
(20:45):
that's going to allow me toshow up in the way that I want,
like I want to show up the waythat I want energetically.
Brian Wang (20:52):
Great yeah.
Cristina Poindexter (20:54):
That's kind of it, and I don't know.
I feel like we've gone off in adifferent route.
But great.
Brian Wang (21:00):
Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, okay.
So how much are you in touchwith that sense of just simply
being who you are, without anyneed to show up differently
right now?
Cristina Poindexter (21:20):
I tend to be very able to do that when
there's no expectations of me.
Brian Wang (21:26):
I'm not expecting anything from you right now.
Cristina Poindexter (21:28):
Right and so like.
But in the in the working world, right, if I'm showing up, I'm
in a job, there's an expectationthat I performed a certain way,
there's an expectation ofproviding value in a certain way
, and I think what I'm upagainst right now is I'm
resistant to that in a waythat's probably not serving me
and definitely not serving otherpeople, right?
But it's kind of thisstubbornness of like don't,
(21:49):
don't expect things of me insuch a way that I'm going to
self-modify myself and performfor you, and I'm like really
stubborn about that right now,very massively stubborn,
stubborn about that right nowVery massively stubborn.
Brian Wang (22:05):
The way I hear that is I can show up as I am without
any need to be different, andyet others will impose their
expectations on me, and thenthat's going to create this
collision, this friction, andthat's uncomfortable in some way
.
Cristina Poindexter (22:24):
It is yeah, yeah, yeah.
I don't know where to take that, but yes, it's uncomfortable.
Brian Wang (22:33):
Yeah, and I think you're right.
I mean, there's probably gonnabe a lot of people out there who
will tell you be different,show up in this way, do this,
don't do that, you can't saythat, you can't be that or this
right.
Cristina Poindexter (22:50):
Yeah, I don't think it's people actually
ever telling it to you.
Brian Wang (22:54):
It's not in so many words necessarily.
Sometimes they will.
Cristina Poindexter (22:57):
Yeah, it's the way that culture just is
Sure.
Yeah, it's the way that culturejust is Sure, right, and you
know, I'll take my last year asan example, where I have gone in
this beautiful rabbit hole,down the rabbit hole of dance,
right, and there's somethingabout immersing myself in
(23:17):
movement and quite literally inmy body and in a very different
state which, like you know,there's.
You can describe it as variousthings, but it's, it's very
feminine, right, and it's been,um, it's been like the, the
medicine that I needed tocounteract the mode that I was
(23:37):
in in the working world, right,which I think was a very driven
masculine way of existing.
And yet for me there's so muchauthenticity in that space.
And now it's like, well, how,how do you bring topics like
that and the healing that's inthat and the authentic self that
I am in that space back intobusiness?
(24:01):
Right, because it's like theseare topics that feel taboo, like
being in your feelings.
Is sensuality, right?
How do you lead as a sensualwoman in the world?
Brian Wang (24:13):
It's like whoa okay, let's I don't know.
That's some other place thatlike doesn't Before you even get
to the story that you can't dothat.
I'm just wondering how wouldyou do that If you were to even
guess?
Cristina Poindexter (24:28):
I mean currently I think I'm in the
experimentation phase which islike just be it and see what
happens, Willing to be it.
Risk ostracization I don't knowif that's the right way to say
that word, but see what happens.
Risk ostracization that's, Idon't know if that's the right
way to say that word, but seewhat happens, but it feels like
a major, major risk financialrisk, reputational risk, yeah,
(24:59):
and I do feel like I'm in deepwater in the sense that, like I
don't have role models to lookto, Like the women in leadership
that I have looked tohistorically I feel are
operating in a way that's veryof the culture now, which I can
stigmatize as masculine or coldor rigid or various words, right
, but it's like I can look atsome of those role models and be
(25:20):
like I actually like I love you, I admire where you've gotten,
You're in a seat of power Go you, go, lady.
But I really don't want to beyou because you seem really
unhappy.
Brian Wang (25:30):
Great.
The reason I say great, by theway, is not that that's
wonderful, but it's more likethat you're clear on what you
don't want.
Cristina Poindexter (25:38):
Yeah, I'm clear.
Brian Wang (25:40):
And what I hear is that there are things that are
at stake.
You're cognizant of the factthat if you show up in this way
that's authentic to you, thatfeels true to you, it might
invite negative response.
It might invite negativeresponse.
(26:03):
You might be denied certainopportunities or you might be
punished in some ways.
I won't hypothesize inspecifics right now, but there's
some sense that the world won'tallow me to be who I am.
And if it were to behave inthat way, what would you have to
(26:25):
feel?
Cristina Poindexter (26:28):
What do you mean?
Can you ask it differently?
Brian Wang (26:31):
So you're out there in the world.
Here's who I am.
I'm Christina.
The world says that's not okay.
What's the feeling that createsfor you?
Cristina Poindexter (26:42):
I mean the what comes up immediately is
just like I'm not going to bepaid, that's not a feeling.
It's fear, it's it's.
It's fear of not, of not beingable to take care of myself.
Yeah, Of like being fear ofbeing dependent of myself.
(27:03):
Yeah, Of like being fear ofbeing dependent on the random
other.
It's fear.
Brian Wang (27:14):
Can you feel that right now, in this space?
Cristina Poindexter (27:15):
Yeah, I can .
Brian Wang (27:17):
Yeah, yeah, are you willing to allow that here?
Yes, she says gritting herteeth.
Yeah, where do you feel it showup the most?
Cristina Poindexter (27:39):
like physically yeah uh, it's like
low back all the way to like.
It's kind of like classic, likecat hairs in the back of my
neck kind of a thing going on.
It's like yeah yeah that.
Brian Wang (27:54):
It's that yeah it doesn't always feel nice, huh no
, definitely not.
Cristina Poindexter (28:00):
Yeah, and also, like you know it's, it's
the kind of thing where it'slike I, I do feel like this is a
, this is a recorded call, so Ishould be in this little square
and I shouldn't like do this,you know, like this is not
physically acceptable you'retotally okay doing that right,
but it's like that's what needsto happen, because it's like
it's also here right it's likein the body and it's like you
(28:21):
move it out and then it's greatit moves.
Brian Wang (28:26):
it's also here, it's in the body and you move it out
and then it moves.
It's kind of gone.
Yeah, and I'm sure you know allof that.
There's something to hear in it, there's something to listen to
.
So if you were to tune intothat channel for a moment, what
the fear is telling you, likewhat is it saying?
Cristina Poindexter (28:49):
Well, the fear was saying, like being able
to physically just do what Idid, like act in ways and, you
know, do things that aren't likethat I don't see other people
doing on zoom calls, yeah, it'slike this, this.
If I'm able to do that and likeyou're still taking me
(29:10):
seriously and haven't like shutdown and run away and you know
been like what the fuck is shedoing?
Like, then after that I feellike I can like another layer of
my armor can go away or anotherpart of my guard is actually
down and that's actually whatdissipates the fear?
it's just that I never see otherpeople doing that on the formal
(29:33):
professional calls that I tendto be on yeah, yeah that's what
I mean.
Brian Wang (29:39):
It's like it's in the, it's in the water, it's in
the culture of like yeah, and inthis space, right here, you
just had an experience where itwas totally okay yeah, fair.
Cristina Poindexter (29:49):
Yes, thank you for that.
Yes.
Brian Wang (29:52):
I don't want us to bump over that, skip it yeah so
what if you were able to meetyour fear in this way each and
(30:13):
every time it came up?
Cristina Poindexter (30:21):
um, it's not actually about me meeting my
fear, because I'm very awarewhen it shows up.
It's about letting it be seenyeah and it's about um, um,
choosing, choosing to let it beseen, choosing to process it,
like in the moment, socially,and it's really it's almost a
(30:48):
faith thing.
It's like I'm choosing tobelieve that, in expressing
whatever emotion in the moment,like that is actually how the
culture gets changed and that isactually how it becomes.
Okay, I just am willing to doit.
(31:10):
Yeah, and this is somethingthat, like I know, like I know
that it's like, yeah, just beyourself in the world and like,
if you're too much for people orif you're making people
uncomfortable, and they go away.
And it's like, yeah, just beyourself in the world and like,
if you're too much for people orif you're making people
uncomfortable and they go away,and it's like those definitely
weren't your people anyway.
Right, and I, I, I like wonderwhy that still matters to me,
(31:34):
right, it's like there's stillsome worlds where it's like, oh,
no, I am, I'm still actuallywilling to self modifymodify, to
be in these worlds.
And why is it that?
I think that's, why do I allowthat?
Like that's the internalquestioning for me in this
moment.
Brian Wang (31:50):
So let's just take that question seriously.
So let's just assume there's adamn good reason that part of
you does that.
What's the reason?
Cristina Poindexter (32:02):
I come back to money.
It's like I believe thatthere's that my, my professional
self, my business self, whoshows up, looking and sounding
and serving in a certain way, isthe person that keeps me safe
in the world.
And if she doesn't keep me safe, who's going to?
Brian Wang (32:27):
And meaning like the safety comes from money.
Cristina Poindexter (32:29):
Yeah.
Brian Wang (32:30):
Yeah, so if I don't perform in these ways that
others are expecting of me, thenI can't earn money and then I
can't be safe.
Cristina Poindexter (32:42):
Yeah, and I think I have a belief that,
like there's so much that I love, that's in the world of
movement, right, and things thathappen in studio spaces and
yoga studios and gyms and poolsand offline and dance spaces,
and I do have a belief thatthere's no way to make money in
that world.
And I do have a belief thatthere's no way to make money in
(33:03):
that world, even while,logically, knowing that's wrong.
I think I'm still very much heldback by the sense that I can
make way more faster andtherefore have to like it's
almost like I have.
I sap this belief that I'msapping myself less if I'm
(33:23):
putting myself in spaces thathave a higher like hourly wage
Right.
Brian Wang (33:28):
And.
Cristina Poindexter (33:28):
I believe that I have like a very like,
the highest hourly wage that Ican give myself or earn is in
these professional capacitiesthat actually require me to
self-abandon, and like thechoice of okay, how might I make
money in the movement world,even if it's way less money but
(33:51):
I'm not sapping myself?
I'm like really wanting to likepush myself over that cliff and
like at the juncture where,like I can tell I'm dragging my
feet in the working in the, inthe I'll call it the white
collar working world.
Brian Wang (34:05):
Yeah, sure.
Cristina Poindexter (34:06):
Like I'm showing up as a professional,
using my words and my strategyin my brain.
Right, I'm not using my body inany way.
Brian Wang (34:13):
Right.
Cristina Poindexter (34:14):
Like I'm really wanting myself to let go
of that because it feels like alimiting belief.
And yet I'm not doing it.
Like I'm not actually going outand like auditioning for yoga
teacher jobs or I don't evenknow where I would start Right.
It's like it's almost just likewhat.
(34:34):
What am I doing?
Like I'm pivoting in in thatway, like I should be.
I should be.
It feels like I'm occupying aprivileged position to be able
to make pretty high hourly wagein a professional capacity, and
yet it's not making me happy.
And like the, what feels likethe bifurcation or the choice I
have to make is be willing to gomake a lot less money to be
happy, and I don't want to makethat choice, like I don't want
(34:56):
that to be the belief.
I don't want that reality.
I want to be able to, like makegood money, take good care of
myself, keep myself safe.
I don't need anything crazyextravagant, but easily make a
living doing what I enjoy.
And yet that doesn't.
I don't believe I can, and sothen I self-abandon and go
modify myself and become alittle bit of a robot performer.
Brian Wang (35:20):
Yeah, great, so you can totally see it.
I just want to change it.
Cristina Poindexter (35:26):
I don't know how to change it.
I want myself to actdifferently.
I'm really, I think I'm veryself-critical that I'm not, and
the best I can do right now isjust go really slowly and not do
anything.
I'd regret, which is going fullsteam back into that world.
Brian Wang (35:45):
Sure.
Well, what's really interestingto me, christina, is you can
fully acknowledge that you havethis belief that in the dance
and movement world there's justno money to be made there or it
can't compare to thewhite-collar tech world, and I
(36:07):
totally get that argument.
I know nothing about the danceworld so I don't speak from any
informed position there, so Ican't speak to the economics.
But it's interesting becauseyou can clearly articulate how
that's simply a belief.
And my hunch is that, as you'retalking about this and you're
(36:32):
like, yeah, like, but I knowthere's this belief that's like
limiting, there's like anemotion or like some set of
emotions under that, that's justreally hard to be with yeah,
it's um.
Cristina Poindexter (36:54):
it puts me up against my pride.
I'll say Uh-huh, um, like thephrase that's coming to mind is
I'm worth more than that.
Hmm coming to mind is I'm worthmore than that, and it's like I
feel like where I would need tobegin in working in the, you
know, dance and movement spacelet's put it that way right, I
(37:17):
would need to be willing tobegin by doing things that earn
way less.
Brian Wang (37:23):
Yeah.
Cristina Poindexter (37:24):
And I'm worth more than that.
And so it's this belief andit's this desire to like to
really like maintain my own likedignity, stand up for myself as
a woman who should be able tolike earn her a good living.
You know, like, and like almostlike wanting to defend the
(37:44):
massive amount of effort andenergy that I've put into, like
education and the long hours atGoogle, and like being a founder
and pitching over 200 investorsfor, you know, millions of
dollars, and like all of there's, all of this like work and
effort that I put into the world.
That like, I do think I have alittle bit of this hunch, this
(38:07):
like this what's the right wayto put it?
Like, I don't know, I don'tknow how to put it.
It's just like this phrase oflike I'm worth more than that.
And there's something, there'ssomething that feels good and
right and dignified in thatbelief and there's something
that feels egotistical and notserving me in that belief of,
(38:28):
like I'm willing to do thingseven though they have extreme
intrinsic value to me, becausethe paycheck is small and and
I'm and I feel stuck, I'm likeunderneath that is is anger at
myself, anger at the world forbeing that way, like why is it
(38:52):
that certain jobs make that muchmoney?
Where, like, are they actuallyhelping people?
that much Like not really, andpeople who are on the front
lines doing extremely hard workthat's really helpful to people.
I'm thinking like socialworkers, caretakers like make
way less than they should andI'm like real angry about that
and there's no place to directthat anger, to be angry about it
(39:15):
.
And yet like I'm not willing tojump into that world because I
want to maintain a certainquality of life and like like I
don't think I should be ashamedthat I want a certain quality of
life.
I don't want you to be ashamedthat I want a certain quality of
life.
Brian Wang (39:31):
I don't want you to be ashamed of that either.
It's perfectly all right foryou to want to maintain a
certain quality of life and toearn a certain amount of money.
I think that's all great.
Cristina Poindexter (39:50):
Feeling angry is what I'm feeling right
now.
Brian Wang (39:53):
I am just going to say you are totally allowed to
feel angry.
Cristina Poindexter (39:59):
I welcome it yeah.
When's the last time you allowedyourself to feel angry?
Last week at a dance event.
Um, there's a lot of emotionthat gets processed in dance for
me, and there's increasinglyspaces where that's very much
(40:20):
welcomed and okay, and I thinkthey're wonderful places and
spaces and I love them.
It's very cathartic, yeah, andI think that's, in a way, why I
love that world.
It's like all of this emotionthat otherwise has no route to
the surface yeah, it doesn'tjust have a route to the surface
.
It's like the point of beingthere is to turn this, the raw
stuff of feeling, into art yeahgorgeous, beautiful, amazing.
Brian Wang (40:44):
More of that, please yeah, well, part of what I hear
in that is well.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Like for the last little bit,we've been talking about you and
relating to, like, the world ofmovement and dance and on one
hand I hear like, oh, like,there's a world where Christina
really wants to then put herattention into that,
(41:07):
vocationally, professionally.
There's also another worldwhere there are certain
qualities of that, qualities ofbeing, qualities of expression
that you really value in thatthat you want to also be able to
bring other places, but thenthe stuckness is like, but it
doesn't feel like I can.
So how much of it right now?
(41:30):
This might be a tricky question, but how much of the stuckness
that you're experiencing rightnow is I want to do dance but I
can't, versus, I want to bringsome of these qualities that are
really valued to the workingworld and I can't.
Cristina Poindexter (41:48):
I think it's both, um, it's.
I want it to be okay that Idon't have a calendar to share
with people and that I'm goingto have to respond to their
email based off of like I don'tknow, I'm going to see how I
feel tomorrow and have that belike not just okay but valued,
and like that's one smallexample, right, but it's like
(42:12):
that feels very risky to bringinto like I don't, I don't, I
don't believe and I'll say itthat way because I can, I can
see it's a belief that I couldchange somehow, and I'll say it
that way because I can see it'sa belief that I could change
somehow.
I don't believe I can raise myhand for full-time, salaried
(42:34):
employment, jobs with thatfundamental orientation towards
time.
It's like to be a full-timeemployed, salaried person.
It's like this entity owns thesebuckets of your time every
single day and if you don't showup and give them that bucket of
time in the way that they haveexpected, you have failed and
(42:54):
like I don't think I can sign upfor that right now and so I
have to stay in these modelsthat are, you know, more
flexible, where I have variousclients, where I work in a
part-time capacity right,because culturally, that's the
only way I've understood how toput my how to, how to have my
needs met and to be able to giveto others right.
(43:15):
It's like one entity doesn't ownmy time anymore.
But that that's really trickyand I do think that we need way
more sophistication around thatand I'm figuring it out live.
So it's like I'm in theinvestigation of that and I'm in
this investigation of how do Ishow up in all of these dance
spaces more and shift fromstudent and practitioner into
some sort of teacher orfacilitator or guide or someone
(43:38):
who's helping others?
Right, I'm not there just formyself.
I am, my oxygen mask is alreadyon and I'm helping others in
some way.
Brian Wang (43:45):
It sounds like, in some sense, that you're like
just the.
The, where you are in thepresent, is already meeting some
of these conditions that you'reseeking.
Cristina Poindexter (43:55):
Possibly Say more Go on, I don't know,
you just said that you're.
Conversation itself.
Maybe isn't it yeah.
Brian Wang (44:02):
You have flexibility of time.
You can choose how and when youwork.
Of time, you can choose how andwhen you work.
You're able to put time intodance and ponder the notion of
then moving into thisfacilitator, trainer role.
You have a variety of clientswhere you get to define how that
(44:24):
work relationship functions andearn a good rate on that.
Based on what I've heard so far, it sounds like some of these
things that are really importantto you are already present.
Cristina Poindexter (44:40):
I think you're probably right, and I
think it's hard for me to seethem.
I don't know why that is.
It's hard for me to see them Ina time before I've been able to
like.
I don't know why that is.
It's hard for me to see them,um in, in a time before I've
been able to like.
It's hard to articulate whatI'm doing.
I just know intuitively I am inin allowing myself to go very
(45:09):
slowly.
Just because I don't have anexplanation for other people of
what I'm doing doesn't mean Idon't know what I'm doing.
And so I do think I know howI'm doing.
I just don't know how toexplain it to people.
And what I'm realizing rightnow in this conversation is that
I default to saying I don'tknow what I'm doing.
When the reality is, I knowwhat I'm doing, I just don't
know what I'm doing.
When the reality is, I knowwhat I'm doing, I just don't
(45:30):
know how to explain it to you,right?
And there's a really that'sactually a really important
difference for me right now,because one's empowering and one
is disempowering, right.
I can sense that it may behelpful for people who want to
work with me and can see that Icould help their organization,
(45:52):
or help them as leaders, or youknow whatnot?
Like they want to know.
Like, oh, do you offer productmarketing?
Do you offer go-to-market?
Are you a founder coach?
Are you a dance therapist?
Like, what are you doing?
And it's like yes is the answeryet to all of them.
And it's like yes is the answeryeah To all of them and until
(46:12):
but I just don't have myselflike packaged.
Brian Wang (46:21):
Well, there's a version of that where you go out
into the world and you're likehere's my name is Christina,
here's what I do and here's likethe menu of options that I can
offer.
There's also another version ofthat where it's like you're in
connection with people andyou're simply listening to what
they are needing.
Cristina Poindexter (46:34):
Correct.
That is what it is at the endof it.
Brian Wang (46:37):
And then you're like oh yeah, I can help with that.
Cristina Poindexter (46:39):
Right, so like.
But what do I call that, brian?
It's like, and why and I guesswhy do I feel like I need a term
to call it?
Beats me.
Yeah, I don't know.
Brian Wang (46:57):
I wonder what would happen if you've dropped the
need even just as an experimentdropped the need to explain what
you do to anyone for a month.
It doesn't mean you just don'tgo into conversations and listen
and see how you can be helpfuland see what would like make you
come alive when you're in thoserelationships, but just like
(47:18):
this drop that like I need tomake sure people know what I do,
sort of thing.
Cristina Poindexter (47:25):
I am very willing to be in that experiment
, Brian.
I can let you know how it goesin a month.
But yeah, it is an experiment.
It feels like a new way.
Brian Wang (47:40):
Yeah, so just we're starting to wrap up here.
Cristina Poindexter (47:45):
Yeah.
Brian Wang (47:47):
Let me just ask you here, just here what do you want
to underscore?
What is poking out out of allthis for you?
Cristina Poindexter (48:01):
The importance of language.
Honestly, it's like theimportance of language to myself
right Of how.
Yeah, as someone who I thinkI've prided myself and just
(48:29):
expected that I'm someone whocan always articulate what's
going on, I can always put wordsto things that match the
essence of what is happeninglittle bit more slack that,
whatever transition it is thatI'm going through in this moment
, I don't need to be able toarticulate it yet, and that's
(48:58):
actually where I need to be alittle bit more compassionate to
myself.
It's like there's I'm operatingwith faculties that lie
underneath reason and words andnarrative and story and identity
, and as I'm in that murky,muddy you know the stuff where
it all begins to not need toexplain myself to anyone at all,
(49:25):
including yourself.
Including myself.
Brian Wang (49:30):
Yeah, Well, I welcome you being in the murky,
feely primordial stuff.
Cristina Poindexter (49:40):
Definitely in that stuff.
Brian Wang (49:42):
yes, yeah, awesome.
Well, thanks for coming on,christina, it's been a pleasure.
Cristina Poindexter (49:49):
Thank you, Brian.
Thank you for doing what you doand exposing these
conversations.
I think that this backstagework is actually where it's all
at.
Everything else is the prettypackaging, but this is the meat
of it all.
Brian Wang (50:11):
I appreciate that Awesome.
Cristina Poindexter (50:15):
Okay, be well, you as well.
Thank you.
Brian Wang (50:17):
That's a cut.
I'll turn out the recordinghere.
Hey, Christina, great to see you.
Cristina Poindexter (00:03):
Good to see you, Brian.
Brian Wang (00:04):
Yeah, I'm really excited to get on this session
with you and just to speak tothe audience real quick, just as
a quick intro.
I'm with Christina Poindextertoday and she is an experienced
tech wellness entrepreneur.
Before this session started shesaid don't spend too much time
introing me, we'll just jumpright into it.
So I'm going to honor that andChristina, hand it over to you
(00:24):
and just give you a chance tospend a moment to introduce
yourself, if you like, and thenotherwise we'll just jump right
into what we're here for.
Cristina Poindexter (00:36):
Today Sounds good, brian.
Yeah, hello to all of thelisteners.
Thank you guys for being here.
I am a wellness entrepreneur.
I have founded twoventure-backed businesses, both
in the mental health space.
The first one was in the AIspace and the second one was a
brain health and nutritioncompany, so that one was a
little bit more in the CPG space.
I've also spent a lot of timeat Google and Headspace, so
(00:58):
that's where you get the techand the marketing backgrounds as
well.
Overall, you meet me at ajuncture where I am very much
figuring out what to do next.
Have been helping various folksin the consulting and advising
space for the past year, butthat is sort of what Brian and I
are probably going to get intotoday.
Brian Wang (01:18):
Yeah, so this reminds me a little bit about
our call from from earlier.
But there was that question oflike what's next, right?
Cristina Poindexter (01:24):
What do I?
Brian Wang (01:25):
want to do next?
Yeah, so just yeah, maybe I'llinvite you to expand on that
question.
It's kind of a big one and so,just like in the context of our
time here, maybe just frame itup a little bit and we'll see
where we go with it.
Cristina Poindexter (01:39):
Yeah, yeah.
So I made the decision to leavethe last company that I
co-founded in May of last yearso almost exactly a year ago and
very much needed a break.
Right after you're in thestartup trenches for a while,
you know, you certainly need apause, both to recoup energy but
also to kind of reorient, like,okay, where am I going here?
(02:00):
What's important in life,what's the point?
You know, and just recalibrate,and I thought that process
would take me maybe a quarter,um, one year later, I feel like
I am still in the thick of it,um, and not at all necessarily
in a bad way, but um, you know,just in a very reflective place
of wanting to protect my timeand energy and very much like
(02:25):
form, this next chapter of mylife and work in ways that are
healthy for myself andmeaningful.
And I do think that thatinvestigation has led me to go a
little bit slower than I everhave in my life or in my career,
because I've done a lot ofthings.
I've worked the corporate world,I've worked late stage startup,
(02:48):
I've founded two early stagestartups and in the past year,
experimented as well withconsulting and advising, which
is a whole new model, and I'mnow at this juncture where I
want to kind of commit tosomething again in a bigger way,
and that feels heavy, it feelslike it comes with a lot of
(03:10):
gravitas and there's probably agood amount of fear of making
the wrong decision that's goingto end up.
You know, I have kind of anengine inside me that I can
overdo it and it has allowed meto build some big things and run
teams and do kind of big shinystuff.
But it's come every time at apersonal cost, and so I'm really
(03:31):
trying to figure out how do I,how do I not keep doing that?
Because this is not the firsttime I got burned out, it's not
the second time, you know.
It's probably in the third orthe fourth time.
And yeah, you know it's probablyin the third or the fourth time
.
And you know, when you're inthat that orientation, it's kind
of like nothing is worth yourown happiness at the end of the
day.
And yet, you know, I still wantto contribute to the world, I
(03:56):
still want to bring in income, Istill, you know, have these
needs to engage.
And so, like what, what do Iengage with and how do I engage
with the working world?
That's the inquiry that I'm in.
Brian Wang (04:10):
Great yeah.
So just right off the bat, itsounds like you've had a lot of
experience in going at a certainspeed and being on.
I'll check with you and see ifthis feels right, like the
achievement treadmill.
Cristina Poindexter (04:23):
Yeah.
Brian Wang (04:24):
And at great cost.
You end up with burnout and ithas certain impacts on you.
And now, at this juncture, itsounds like simultaneously,
you're looking to reenter thespace with a sense of purpose,
(04:44):
of something that feels reallyaligned with you and that you
really want to meet.
The condition of this is goingto be energizing, sustainable,
is actually in service of my ownhealth and wellness.
Do those things fit as I saythat?
Cristina Poindexter (05:01):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I'll say one additionalthing, fit as I say that yeah,
absolutely, and it's.
I'll say one additional thing.
It's like in, in, you know,being someone who has shifted
herself more towards likemission oriented work, in the
sense of I really do care abouthow people are, right, like
there.
There have been too many timeswhere I get kind of lost in the
(05:22):
headiness of that, talking aboutscale and talking about impact
and talking about numbers, andit comes down to like, am I
actually taking care of myself?
Like how am I?
It's like that, like oxygenmask.
On first analogy, right, and Ithink, wellness entrepreneurs
themselves are kind of on thefront lines figuring out how do
we shift the culture around workand wellness, because what's
(05:45):
the whole point if I'm out heretrying to better other people's
mental health and yet mine issuffering?
Like I have to reorient all ofthat.
And so I'm in the investigationof like, how do I actually
orient towards, like the modelsI could choose of?
Brian Wang (05:59):
how.
Cristina Poindexter (06:00):
I provide services in the world.
Brian Wang (06:02):
Right.
Cristina Poindexter (06:04):
And like then the next step is okay.
How do I actually do work thathelps other people's wellness?
Brian Wang (06:10):
Right.
Cristina Poindexter (06:10):
That's kind of a dual task to to figure out
.
Brian Wang (06:15):
You said you've been in the inquiry for some time.
What has it uncovered so far?
Cristina Poindexter (06:20):
Um, well, it has uncovered that, uh,
flexibility of scheduling isincredibly important and there's
some things that like, uh,other people just assume is like
normal, now that should be fine.
Like, oh, can you just send meyour Calendly link?
And it's like I can't doCalendly, like I actually cannot
(06:44):
decide one schedule of timethat I'm going to be free for
the foreseeable future, and like, provide that out into the
world and guarantee that myenergy is going to be like as
people expect it all of the time.
Right, and so that's an exampleof something that I've learned
over the years, which is likeactually better for me to
maintain control over so that Ican be perceptive in a much more
(07:07):
kind of live way.
Do I have energy for this typeof a thing at this point in my
journey, because everything isalways unfolding?
It's not the strategic heady.
Oh, there's this like lineargoal that I'm going towards, and
like I can see that this thingis going to be in the direction
of that linear goal.
It's like a very different wayof orienting, and I think that
(07:31):
time and scheduling is actuallylike the front lines of that,
and so one thing that I haveloved both about being a founder
and consulting and advising isthat I do have the ability to
candidly, like, maintain controlof my time, and there's 16 hour
days where I have tons ofenergy and I'm in the flow and
(07:53):
I'm doing stuff, and thenthere's days where it's like,
honestly, I have to cleareverything and get back into
visioning space and reorientmyself to what I'm doing and why
and like.
That does not seem to mesh in acorporate working world for me,
or it just hasn't.
So that's, that's one learning.
I think there's probably many,but I'll just leave it at that,
yeah.
Brian Wang (08:12):
So so having control over time, um, I hear, like
that there's there's somethingthat you've learned about
yourself, which is that you it'sit's far healthier for you to
be able to, like, tune into howyou're feeling, how you're
perceiving things, how you'rerelating to things as they
unfold.
(08:32):
It's never one thing.
It's evolving and there's aneed for you to stay connected
to that.
And as long as you're stayingconnected to that, then you can,
from that place, make decisionson what commitment you're going
to make, what meeting you mightschedule, what commitment
you're going to make, whatmeeting you might schedule, what
task you're going to take on.
And I also hear there'spotentially a friction there
between that way of operatingand what certain jobs, for
(08:57):
example, might demand of you orrequire of you.
So my sense is there's sometension there.
As one piece of this, Does thatfeel right?
Cristina Poindexter (09:06):
Absolutely yeah, yeah.
Brian Wang (09:10):
You mentioned that there's a couple other things at
least that, going back to thatquestion around, like what have
you uncovered in the inquiry?
That I'm also curious, mightfeel salient here.
Cristina Poindexter (09:21):
Yeah, you know, I think that there's,
especially in the early part ofmy career at Google, I was
probably the most ambitious Iever was and you know I was very
(09:42):
willing to put in crazy hoursand put my nose to the
grindstone and get anything doneand learn anything and figure
it out.
You know, and like just runfreneticism that was associated
(10:07):
with ambition, which has shiftedover the years as I've gotten
more and more aligned withorganizations and missions and
work that feels more core tolike what I'm kind of here to do
in the world and that kind ofsounds potentially woo woo, but
what I've learned is like thecloser I get to that alignment,
the more, the more I'm able torest in the trenches of the work
(10:29):
.
And so I've had enough kind ofglimmers of what that feels like
where, like you are so in theflow in a partnerships meeting
or, you know, in a pitchconversation, or you know
managing a direct report, or youknow in a pitch conversation,
or you know managing a directreport, or you know writing a
blog post where it is flow stateand there's a calm in it.
(10:51):
And so what I'm seeking now inmy work is like I'm really so,
so tired of that energy, of theadrenaline fueled frenetic,
restless drive.
That's actually a signal thatsomething's off yeah, and so I'm
really searching for in thework that I do is like the
(11:11):
feeling of being in it right, um, and it's even like.
The feeling of this conversationfor me is like it's natural,
it's I'm not trying to get anysort of agenda across genuinely
just showing up as me andthere's something in that which
is the whole point and so, likethat, the easy way to kind of
(11:32):
term that is like oh, I'velearned that wellness is my lane
, right, but there's somethingthat I've gotten these glimmers
of, like, oh, there's somethingabout one-on-one conversations
that's my lane, comes across.
There's something around, youknow, food and movement and
mindfulness that's my lane andthere's something in there,
right.
Brian Wang (11:52):
Yeah.
Cristina Poindexter (11:53):
I have all these like hints.
Brian Wang (11:54):
Yeah.
Cristina Poindexter (11:55):
Right, and now I'm just like, okay, well,
like, how do I put thesetogether into like what I signal
to the world of?
Like this is what I'm now doing, or like this is what I'm
looking for, or this is how Ican serve you, or these are the
services I offer, right, um, andjust packaging myself, even as
someone who's good at marketing,is actually really hard.
Brian Wang (12:17):
Right.
Cristina Poindexter (12:18):
Um, yeah.
Brian Wang (12:22):
I want to just reflect on that for a moment.
So you use that term like in mylane.
You were describing like beingin the flow.
Part of what came up for me asI was listening to you was like
in those moments when you canjust be fully yourself, like
you're not having to perform orbe somebody different, beyond
(12:45):
just who Christina is, is whereit's feeling, in that flow state
, in that aligned state.
I just want to check and see ifthat's, if I'm touching on what
that kind of experience is likefor you.
Cristina Poindexter (12:59):
Yeah, and most roles have felt
claustrophobic to me, even afounder role, and it's like
being called a marketer feelsclaustrophobic because I do
things outside of marketing.
Being a consultant feelsclaustrophobic because I do
things outside of consulting,right when I when I've started
(13:21):
to identify with it as like whoI am.
I start to get that restlessfeeling again, cause it's like,
oh, what if?
What if?
What I actually want to bedoing today is like outside of
the founder role or outside ofthis role, and that's as I'm
orienting back into the workingworld, it's still, I think,
necessary to to help otherpeople understand, like how you
(13:45):
do envision yourself partakingand providing value.
Yeah, like what?
What words do I use?
Right, like that does matter.
Brian Wang (13:54):
Yeah yeah.
It communicates ideas, itcreates legibility, and it
occurs to me that there's adistinction between the label
that you use to describeyourself versus what you are
offering for other people, andso I wonder if we would just
(14:16):
play with that for a second.
Let's just say that you droppedany need to have a label for
who Christinaina is she's inthis box or this box and instead
your attention were on whatyou're really wanting to bring
forth for others.
Right, when you're putting yourattention on that question,
what comes up for you?
Cristina Poindexter (14:37):
what comes up is I I really enjoy going
deep with people.
You know, like I really enjoygoing deep with people, I really
enjoy going under the surfacelevel stuff and getting into the
territory of what isunconscious or messy or not seen
or not understood and kind ofsurfacing it and making sense of
it all.
And that's really general.
(15:00):
It happens in many differentrealms, but like when I'm in
positions where I'm able to dothat, like I'm most comfortable
in those places, like I'm mostlike at ease, because it feels
meaningful what makes it reallyimportant to you um, um, I think
(15:28):
it's very easy to go throughlife on autopilot and, um, I've
gone through life on autopilotmany years.
Still do it, um, and I?
(15:50):
I don't think that's the point,uh huh, yeah, and it's like
some of the most interestingparts of people are in the
things that happen, like afterthe meeting, between
conversations in the hallway,like you know, in the gym, like
(16:10):
you know in these kind of likeoff spaces and like that's.
That's where people's humanitykind of shines through.
And I, I love seeing people'shumanity like come back.
It's like the, the rosy intheir cheeks come back, right,
yeah, and like that stuffdoesn't really you have to kind
(16:32):
of go deep to get to that stuff,and what's that experience been
like for you?
Brian Wang (16:37):
that getting the rosiness back in your own cheeks
and getting back to your ownhumanity.
Cristina Poindexter (16:42):
It's been a long and windy path that has
had a lot of different chapters.
So I yeah, I've had a lot ofchapters to like my personal
wellness practices and I grew upwith you know, bless them very
ambitious parents that you knowdrove my sister and I very hard
(17:05):
towards achievement and towardsIvy League and towards you know
what externally you know was, is, can be stamps of approval and
safety in the world Right andbecame kind of a machine and
became very good at what I didthere and got there and was, you
(17:26):
know, had some very seriousmental health stuff come up.
And so for me, the path there'sbeen many chapters of my path
kind of back right ordeconditioning myself, but it's
like I had a major yoga chapter,I had a major meditation
chapter, I had a major recently,I've had a major dance chapter,
I've had a journaling chapter,I've had a food and nutrition
(17:50):
chapter, I've had a sobriety youknow, getting rid of alcohol
chapter, and all of thesedifferent chapters have brought
me into what feel like deeper,deeper, more real versions of
myself that let me drop intothat calm place of like, just
(18:11):
showing up as me.
And like when I show up as me.
That's what.
That's what has helped me dowhat feels like meaningful work.
Brian Wang (18:21):
Yeah, and so when you're fully showing up as you,
what does that enable you tocreate with others?
Cristina Poindexter (18:49):
It typically involves creating
something out of nothing thatcould be a company, that could
be various things, and itrequires feeling.
It requires getting into thebody and feeling and like
getting out of the head, out ofthe mind, out of story, out of
(19:11):
narrative.
Brian Wang (19:12):
What are you feeling right now?
Cristina Poindexter (19:18):
A little bit of like tightness of breath
in the sense that, like, I'mneeding to actually articulate
things into words in thisconversation, right, um, as like
that is the medium throughwhich we are engaging.
Is words, right, that is how weare interacting, um, and I
(19:39):
think there's like a there's,there's, there's always people
like in, in showing up to anyconversation, there's what
someone says, what someone lookslike, but then there's all the
other stuff.
There's like the body language.
There's just the energetic feelof what's going on, right, and I
find like there's so muchrichness in that that that I
(20:03):
personally pick up on all thetime and have felt in my life
that I've had to control it inorder to be accepted by whatever
community that I'm in, if I'mshowing up on a pitch, there's a
certain way that I always feltlike I had to show up.
There was something at the endof my last you know of Parable
(20:25):
was the name of my last companyI just kind of stopped caring
about that.
I just couldn't.
I was so tired that I wouldjust like let all that stuff
drop.
And that's actually when Irealized like there's there's no
amount of acceptance in thisworld through a check, you know,
(20:45):
that's going to allow me toshow up in the way that I want,
like I want to show up the waythat I want energetically.
Brian Wang (20:52):
Great yeah.
Cristina Poindexter (20:54):
That's kind of it, and I don't know.
I feel like we've gone off in adifferent route.
But great.
Brian Wang (21:00):
Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, okay.
So how much are you in touchwith that sense of just simply
being who you are, without anyneed to show up differently
right now?
Cristina Poindexter (21:20):
I tend to be very able to do that when
there's no expectations of me.
Brian Wang (21:26):
I'm not expecting anything from you right now.
Cristina Poindexter (21:28):
Right and so like.
But in the in the working world, right, if I'm showing up, I'm
in a job, there's an expectationthat I performed a certain way,
there's an expectation ofproviding value in a certain way
, and I think what I'm upagainst right now is I'm
resistant to that in a waythat's probably not serving me
and definitely not serving otherpeople, right?
But it's kind of thisstubbornness of like don't,
(21:49):
don't expect things of me insuch a way that I'm going to
self-modify myself and performfor you, and I'm like really
stubborn about that right now,very massively stubborn,
stubborn about that right nowVery massively stubborn.
Brian Wang (22:05):
The way I hear that is I can show up as I am without
any need to be different, andyet others will impose their
expectations on me, and thenthat's going to create this
collision, this friction, andthat's uncomfortable in some way
.
Cristina Poindexter (22:24):
It is yeah, yeah, yeah.
I don't know where to take that, but yes, it's uncomfortable.
Brian Wang (22:33):
Yeah, and I think you're right.
I mean, there's probably gonnabe a lot of people out there who
will tell you be different,show up in this way, do this,
don't do that, you can't saythat, you can't be that or this
right.
Cristina Poindexter (22:50):
Yeah, I don't think it's people actually
ever telling it to you.
Brian Wang (22:54):
It's not in so many words necessarily.
Sometimes they will.
Cristina Poindexter (22:57):
Yeah, it's the way that culture just is
Sure.
Yeah, it's the way that culturejust is Sure, right, and you
know, I'll take my last year asan example, where I have gone in
this beautiful rabbit hole,down the rabbit hole of dance,
right, and there's somethingabout immersing myself in
(23:17):
movement and quite literally inmy body and in a very different
state which, like you know,there's.
You can describe it as variousthings, but it's, it's very
feminine, right, and it's been,um, it's been like the, the
medicine that I needed tocounteract the mode that I was
(23:37):
in in the working world, right,which I think was a very driven
masculine way of existing.
And yet for me there's so muchauthenticity in that space.
And now it's like, well, how,how do you bring topics like
that and the healing that's inthat and the authentic self that
I am in that space back intobusiness?
(24:01):
Right, because it's like theseare topics that feel taboo, like
being in your feelings.
Is sensuality, right?
How do you lead as a sensualwoman in the world?
Brian Wang (24:13):
It's like whoa okay, let's I don't know.
That's some other place thatlike doesn't Before you even get
to the story that you can't dothat.
I'm just wondering how wouldyou do that If you were to even
guess?
Cristina Poindexter (24:28):
I mean currently I think I'm in the
experimentation phase which islike just be it and see what
happens, Willing to be it.
Risk ostracization I don't knowif that's the right way to say
that word, but see what happens.
Risk ostracization that's, Idon't know if that's the right
way to say that word, but seewhat happens, but it feels like
a major, major risk financialrisk, reputational risk, yeah,
(24:59):
and I do feel like I'm in deepwater in the sense that, like I
don't have role models to lookto, Like the women in leadership
that I have looked tohistorically I feel are
operating in a way that's veryof the culture now, which I can
stigmatize as masculine or coldor rigid or various words, right
, but it's like I can look atsome of those role models and be
(25:20):
like I actually like I love you, I admire where you've gotten,
You're in a seat of power Go you, go, lady.
But I really don't want to beyou because you seem really
unhappy.
Brian Wang (25:30):
Great.
The reason I say great, by theway, is not that that's
wonderful, but it's more likethat you're clear on what you
don't want.
Cristina Poindexter (25:38):
Yeah, I'm clear.
Brian Wang (25:40):
And what I hear is that there are things that are
at stake.
You're cognizant of the factthat if you show up in this way
that's authentic to you, thatfeels true to you, it might
invite negative response.
It might invite negativeresponse.
(26:03):
You might be denied certainopportunities or you might be
punished in some ways.
I won't hypothesize inspecifics right now, but there's
some sense that the world won'tallow me to be who I am.
And if it were to behave inthat way, what would you have to
(26:25):
feel?
Cristina Poindexter (26:28):
What do you mean?
Can you ask it differently?
Brian Wang (26:31):
So you're out there in the world.
Here's who I am.
I'm Christina.
The world says that's not okay.
What's the feeling that createsfor you?
Cristina Poindexter (26:42):
I mean the what comes up immediately is
just like I'm not going to bepaid, that's not a feeling.
It's fear, it's it's.
It's fear of not, of not beingable to take care of myself.
Yeah, Of like being fear ofbeing dependent of myself.
(27:03):
Yeah, Of like being fear ofbeing dependent on the random
other.
It's fear.
Brian Wang (27:14):
Can you feel that right now, in this space?
Cristina Poindexter (27:15):
Yeah, I can .
Brian Wang (27:17):
Yeah, yeah, are you willing to allow that here?
Yes, she says gritting herteeth.
Yeah, where do you feel it showup the most?
Cristina Poindexter (27:39):
like physically yeah uh, it's like
low back all the way to like.
It's kind of like classic, likecat hairs in the back of my
neck kind of a thing going on.
It's like yeah yeah that.
Brian Wang (27:54):
It's that yeah it doesn't always feel nice, huh no
, definitely not.
Cristina Poindexter (28:00):
Yeah, and also, like you know it's, it's
the kind of thing where it'slike I, I do feel like this is a
, this is a recorded call, so Ishould be in this little square
and I shouldn't like do this,you know, like this is not
physically acceptable you'retotally okay doing that right,
but it's like that's what needsto happen, because it's like
it's also here right it's likein the body and it's like you
(28:21):
move it out and then it's greatit moves.
Brian Wang (28:26):
it's also here, it's in the body and you move it out
and then it moves.
It's kind of gone.
Yeah, and I'm sure you know allof that.
There's something to hear in it, there's something to listen to
.
So if you were to tune intothat channel for a moment, what
the fear is telling you, likewhat is it saying?
Cristina Poindexter (28:49):
Well, the fear was saying, like being able
to physically just do what Idid, like act in ways and, you
know, do things that aren't likethat I don't see other people
doing on zoom calls, yeah, it'slike this, this.
If I'm able to do that and likeyou're still taking me
(29:10):
seriously and haven't like shutdown and run away and you know
been like what the fuck is shedoing?
Like, then after that I feellike I can like another layer of
my armor can go away or anotherpart of my guard is actually
down and that's actually whatdissipates the fear?
it's just that I never see otherpeople doing that on the formal
(29:33):
professional calls that I tendto be on yeah, yeah that's what
I mean.
Brian Wang (29:39):
It's like it's in the, it's in the water, it's in
the culture of like yeah, and inthis space, right here, you
just had an experience where itwas totally okay yeah, fair.
Cristina Poindexter (29:49):
Yes, thank you for that.
Yes.
Brian Wang (29:52):
I don't want us to bump over that, skip it yeah so
what if you were able to meetyour fear in this way each and
(30:13):
every time it came up?
Cristina Poindexter (30:21):
um, it's not actually about me meeting my
fear, because I'm very awarewhen it shows up.
It's about letting it be seenyeah and it's about um, um,
choosing, choosing to let it beseen, choosing to process it,
like in the moment, socially,and it's really it's almost a
(30:48):
faith thing.
It's like I'm choosing tobelieve that, in expressing
whatever emotion in the moment,like that is actually how the
culture gets changed and that isactually how it becomes.
Okay, I just am willing to doit.
(31:10):
Yeah, and this is somethingthat, like I know, like I know
that it's like, yeah, just beyourself in the world and like,
if you're too much for people orif you're making people
uncomfortable, and they go away.
And it's like, yeah, just beyourself in the world and like,
if you're too much for people orif you're making people
uncomfortable and they go away,and it's like those definitely
weren't your people anyway.
Right, and I, I, I like wonderwhy that still matters to me,
(31:34):
right, it's like there's stillsome worlds where it's like, oh,
no, I am, I'm still actuallywilling to self modifymodify, to
be in these worlds.
And why is it that?
I think that's, why do I allowthat?
Like that's the internalquestioning for me in this
moment.
Brian Wang (31:50):
So let's just take that question seriously.
So let's just assume there's adamn good reason that part of
you does that.
What's the reason?
Cristina Poindexter (32:02):
I come back to money.
It's like I believe thatthere's that my, my professional
self, my business self, whoshows up, looking and sounding
and serving in a certain way, isthe person that keeps me safe
in the world.
And if she doesn't keep me safe, who's going to?
Brian Wang (32:27):
And meaning like the safety comes from money.
Cristina Poindexter (32:29):
Yeah.
Brian Wang (32:30):
Yeah, so if I don't perform in these ways that
others are expecting of me, thenI can't earn money and then I
can't be safe.
Cristina Poindexter (32:42):
Yeah, and I think I have a belief that,
like there's so much that I love, that's in the world of
movement, right, and things thathappen in studio spaces and
yoga studios and gyms and poolsand offline and dance spaces,
and I do have a belief thatthere's no way to make money in
that world.
And I do have a belief thatthere's no way to make money in
(33:03):
that world, even while,logically, knowing that's wrong.
I think I'm still very much heldback by the sense that I can
make way more faster andtherefore have to like it's
almost like I have.
I sap this belief that I'msapping myself less if I'm
(33:23):
putting myself in spaces thathave a higher like hourly wage
Right.
Brian Wang (33:28):
And.
Cristina Poindexter (33:28):
I believe that I have like a very like,
the highest hourly wage that Ican give myself or earn is in
these professional capacitiesthat actually require me to
self-abandon, and like thechoice of okay, how might I make
money in the movement world,even if it's way less money but
(33:51):
I'm not sapping myself?
I'm like really wanting to likepush myself over that cliff and
like at the juncture where,like I can tell I'm dragging my
feet in the working in the, inthe I'll call it the white
collar working world.
Brian Wang (34:05):
Yeah, sure.
Cristina Poindexter (34:06):
Like I'm showing up as a professional,
using my words and my strategyin my brain.
Right, I'm not using my body inany way.
Brian Wang (34:13):
Right.
Cristina Poindexter (34:14):
Like I'm really wanting myself to let go
of that because it feels like alimiting belief.
And yet I'm not doing it.
Like I'm not actually going outand like auditioning for yoga
teacher jobs or I don't evenknow where I would start Right.
It's like it's almost just likewhat.
(34:34):
What am I doing?
Like I'm pivoting in in thatway, like I should be.
I should be.
It feels like I'm occupying aprivileged position to be able
to make pretty high hourly wagein a professional capacity, and
yet it's not making me happy.
And like the, what feels likethe bifurcation or the choice I
have to make is be willing to gomake a lot less money to be
happy, and I don't want to makethat choice, like I don't want
(34:56):
that to be the belief.
I don't want that reality.
I want to be able to, like makegood money, take good care of
myself, keep myself safe.
I don't need anything crazyextravagant, but easily make a
living doing what I enjoy.
And yet that doesn't.
I don't believe I can, and sothen I self-abandon and go
modify myself and become alittle bit of a robot performer.
Brian Wang (35:20):
Yeah, great, so you can totally see it.
I just want to change it.
Cristina Poindexter (35:26):
I don't know how to change it.
I want myself to actdifferently.
I'm really, I think I'm veryself-critical that I'm not, and
the best I can do right now isjust go really slowly and not do
anything.
I'd regret, which is going fullsteam back into that world.
Brian Wang (35:45):
Sure.
Well, what's really interestingto me, christina, is you can
fully acknowledge that you havethis belief that in the dance
and movement world there's justno money to be made there or it
can't compare to thewhite-collar tech world, and I
(36:07):
totally get that argument.
I know nothing about the danceworld so I don't speak from any
informed position there, so Ican't speak to the economics.
But it's interesting becauseyou can clearly articulate how
that's simply a belief.
And my hunch is that, as you'retalking about this and you're
(36:32):
like, yeah, like, but I knowthere's this belief that's like
limiting, there's like anemotion or like some set of
emotions under that, that's justreally hard to be with yeah,
it's um.
Cristina Poindexter (36:54):
it puts me up against my pride.
I'll say Uh-huh, um, like thephrase that's coming to mind is
I'm worth more than that.
Hmm coming to mind is I'm worthmore than that, and it's like I
feel like where I would need tobegin in working in the, you
know, dance and movement spacelet's put it that way right, I
(37:17):
would need to be willing tobegin by doing things that earn
way less.
Brian Wang (37:23):
Yeah.
Cristina Poindexter (37:24):
And I'm worth more than that.
And so it's this belief andit's this desire to like to
really like maintain my own likedignity, stand up for myself as
a woman who should be able tolike earn her a good living.
You know, like, and like almostlike wanting to defend the
(37:44):
massive amount of effort andenergy that I've put into, like
education and the long hours atGoogle, and like being a founder
and pitching over 200 investorsfor, you know, millions of
dollars, and like all of there's, all of this like work and
effort that I put into the world.
That like, I do think I have alittle bit of this hunch, this
(38:07):
like this what's the right wayto put it?
Like, I don't know, I don'tknow how to put it.
It's just like this phrase oflike I'm worth more than that.
And there's something, there'ssomething that feels good and
right and dignified in thatbelief and there's something
that feels egotistical and notserving me in that belief of,
(38:28):
like I'm willing to do thingseven though they have extreme
intrinsic value to me, becausethe paycheck is small and and
I'm and I feel stuck, I'm likeunderneath that is is anger at
myself, anger at the world forbeing that way, like why is it
(38:52):
that certain jobs make that muchmoney?
Where, like, are they actuallyhelping people?
that much Like not really, andpeople who are on the front
lines doing extremely hard workthat's really helpful to people.
I'm thinking like socialworkers, caretakers like make
way less than they should andI'm like real angry about that
and there's no place to directthat anger, to be angry about it
(39:15):
.
And yet like I'm not willing tojump into that world because I
want to maintain a certainquality of life and like like I
don't think I should be ashamedthat I want a certain quality of
life.
I don't want you to be ashamedthat I want a certain quality of
life.
Brian Wang (39:31):
I don't want you to be ashamed of that either.
It's perfectly all right foryou to want to maintain a
certain quality of life and toearn a certain amount of money.
I think that's all great.
Cristina Poindexter (39:50):
Feeling angry is what I'm feeling right
now.
Brian Wang (39:53):
I am just going to say you are totally allowed to
feel angry.
Cristina Poindexter (39:59):
I welcome it yeah.
When's the last time you allowedyourself to feel angry?
Last week at a dance event.
Um, there's a lot of emotionthat gets processed in dance for
me, and there's increasinglyspaces where that's very much
(40:20):
welcomed and okay, and I thinkthey're wonderful places and
spaces and I love them.
It's very cathartic, yeah, andI think that's, in a way, why I
love that world.
It's like all of this emotionthat otherwise has no route to
the surface yeah, it doesn'tjust have a route to the surface
.
It's like the point of beingthere is to turn this, the raw
stuff of feeling, into art yeahgorgeous, beautiful, amazing.
Brian Wang (40:44):
More of that, please yeah, well, part of what I hear
in that is well.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Like for the last little bit,we've been talking about you and
relating to, like, the world ofmovement and dance and on one
hand I hear like, oh, like,there's a world where Christina
really wants to then put herattention into that,
(41:07):
vocationally, professionally.
There's also another worldwhere there are certain
qualities of that, qualities ofbeing, qualities of expression
that you really value in thatthat you want to also be able to
bring other places, but thenthe stuckness is like, but it
doesn't feel like I can.
So how much of it right now?
(41:30):
This might be a tricky question, but how much of the stuckness
that you're experiencing rightnow is I want to do dance but I
can't, versus, I want to bringsome of these qualities that are
really valued to the workingworld and I can't.
Cristina Poindexter (41:48):
I think it's both, um, it's.
I want it to be okay that Idon't have a calendar to share
with people and that I'm goingto have to respond to their
email based off of like I don'tknow, I'm going to see how I
feel tomorrow and have that belike not just okay but valued,
and like that's one smallexample, right, but it's like
(42:12):
that feels very risky to bringinto like I don't, I don't, I
don't believe and I'll say itthat way because I can, I can
see it's a belief that I couldchange somehow, and I'll say it
that way because I can see it'sa belief that I could change
somehow.
I don't believe I can raise myhand for full-time, salaried
(42:34):
employment, jobs with thatfundamental orientation towards
time.
It's like to be a full-timeemployed, salaried person.
It's like this entity owns thesebuckets of your time every
single day and if you don't showup and give them that bucket of
time in the way that they haveexpected, you have failed and
(42:54):
like I don't think I can sign upfor that right now and so I
have to stay in these modelsthat are, you know, more
flexible, where I have variousclients, where I work in a
part-time capacity right,because culturally, that's the
only way I've understood how toput my how to, how to have my
needs met and to be able to giveto others right.
(43:15):
It's like one entity doesn't ownmy time anymore.
But that that's really trickyand I do think that we need way
more sophistication around thatand I'm figuring it out live.
So it's like I'm in theinvestigation of that and I'm in
this investigation of how do Ishow up in all of these dance
spaces more and shift fromstudent and practitioner into
some sort of teacher orfacilitator or guide or someone
(43:38):
who's helping others?
Right, I'm not there just formyself.
I am, my oxygen mask is alreadyon and I'm helping others in
some way.
Brian Wang (43:45):
It sounds like, in some sense, that you're like
just the.
The, where you are in thepresent, is already meeting some
of these conditions that you'reseeking.
Cristina Poindexter (43:55):
Possibly Say more Go on, I don't know,
you just said that you're.
Conversation itself.
Maybe isn't it yeah.
Brian Wang (44:02):
You have flexibility of time.
You can choose how and when youwork.
Of time, you can choose how andwhen you work.
You're able to put time intodance and ponder the notion of
then moving into thisfacilitator, trainer role.
You have a variety of clientswhere you get to define how that
(44:24):
work relationship functions andearn a good rate on that.
Based on what I've heard so far, it sounds like some of these
things that are really importantto you are already present.
Cristina Poindexter (44:40):
I think you're probably right, and I
think it's hard for me to seethem.
I don't know why that is.
It's hard for me to see them Ina time before I've been able to
like.
I don't know why that is.
It's hard for me to see them,um in, in a time before I've
been able to like.
It's hard to articulate whatI'm doing.
I just know intuitively I am inin allowing myself to go very
(45:09):
slowly.
Just because I don't have anexplanation for other people of
what I'm doing doesn't mean Idon't know what I'm doing.
And so I do think I know howI'm doing.
I just don't know how toexplain it to people.
And what I'm realizing rightnow in this conversation is that
I default to saying I don'tknow what I'm doing.
When the reality is, I knowwhat I'm doing, I just don't
know what I'm doing.
When the reality is, I knowwhat I'm doing, I just don't
(45:30):
know how to explain it to you,right?
And there's a really that'sactually a really important
difference for me right now,because one's empowering and one
is disempowering, right.
I can sense that it may behelpful for people who want to
work with me and can see that Icould help their organization,
(45:52):
or help them as leaders, or youknow whatnot?
Like they want to know.
Like, oh, do you offer productmarketing?
Do you offer go-to-market?
Are you a founder coach?
Are you a dance therapist?
Like, what are you doing?
And it's like yes is the answeryet to all of them.
And it's like yes is the answeryeah To all of them and until
(46:12):
but I just don't have myselflike packaged.
Brian Wang (46:21):
Well, there's a version of that where you go out
into the world and you're likehere's my name is Christina,
here's what I do and here's likethe menu of options that I can
offer.
There's also another version ofthat where it's like you're in
connection with people andyou're simply listening to what
they are needing.
Cristina Poindexter (46:34):
Correct.
That is what it is at the endof it.
Brian Wang (46:37):
And then you're like oh yeah, I can help with that.
Cristina Poindexter (46:39):
Right, so like.
But what do I call that, brian?
It's like, and why and I guesswhy do I feel like I need a term
to call it?
Beats me.
Yeah, I don't know.
Brian Wang (46:57):
I wonder what would happen if you've dropped the
need even just as an experimentdropped the need to explain what
you do to anyone for a month.
It doesn't mean you just don'tgo into conversations and listen
and see how you can be helpfuland see what would like make you
come alive when you're in thoserelationships, but just like
(47:18):
this drop that like I need tomake sure people know what I do,
sort of thing.
Cristina Poindexter (47:25):
I am very willing to be in that experiment
, Brian.
I can let you know how it goesin a month.
But yeah, it is an experiment.
It feels like a new way.
Brian Wang (47:40):
Yeah, so just we're starting to wrap up here.
Cristina Poindexter (47:45):
Yeah.
Brian Wang (47:47):
Let me just ask you here, just here what do you want
to underscore?
What is poking out out of allthis for you?
Cristina Poindexter (48:01):
The importance of language.
Honestly, it's like theimportance of language to myself
right Of how.
Yeah, as someone who I thinkI've prided myself and just
(48:29):
expected that I'm someone whocan always articulate what's
going on, I can always put wordsto things that match the
essence of what is happeninglittle bit more slack that,
whatever transition it is thatI'm going through in this moment
, I don't need to be able toarticulate it yet, and that's
(48:58):
actually where I need to be alittle bit more compassionate to
myself.
It's like there's I'm operatingwith faculties that lie
underneath reason and words andnarrative and story and identity
, and as I'm in that murky,muddy you know the stuff where
it all begins to not need toexplain myself to anyone at all,
(49:25):
including yourself.
Including myself.
Brian Wang (49:30):
Yeah, Well, I welcome you being in the murky,
feely primordial stuff.
Cristina Poindexter (49:40):
Definitely in that stuff.
Brian Wang (49:42):
yes, yeah, awesome.
Well, thanks for coming on,christina, it's been a pleasure.
Cristina Poindexter (49:49):
Thank you, Brian.
Thank you for doing what you doand exposing these
conversations.
I think that this backstagework is actually where it's all
at.
Everything else is the prettypackaging, but this is the meat
of it all.
Brian Wang (50:11):
I appreciate that Awesome.
Cristina Poindexter (50:15):
Okay, be well, you as well.
Thank you.
Brian Wang (50:17):
That's a cut.
I'll turn out the recordinghere.
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