February 21, 2023 • 41 mins
Email tags. A simple yet powerful tool that way too many business owners don't use to their full potential.
Cheryl Rerick guests on the show this week and goes over how email tags can be:
- a simple and intuitive way to sort your contacts based on their interests, preferences, and any special attributes that set them apart from each other
- used to trigger automation
- a functional tool, as well as give you information about your subscribers
We chat about the difference between (and strategies/tactics around) segmentation and tags as well as Cheryl's three favorite uses for tags.
Toss me a note and let me know how you use tags, or a tactic you discovered from this episode.
Connect with Cheryl at her website here and on Instagram here.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Erin Geiger (00:03):
Welcome to the Small Business Big mindset
podcast, where we dive intotactical strategies to grow your
business and make an impact onthis world. A huge part of
success is keeping your mindsetand vision on track. So this is
a major part of our process. Andthis podcast. Let's do this.
(00:26):
Welcome to the Small BusinessBig mindset podcast this week,
we have Cheryl Rarick. She isthe anti hustle business
strategist for automations. Andshe's a funnels Pro, I think we
all need a lot ofsimplification. And let's do
things anti hustle, like welcomeSheryl to the show.
Unknown (00:44):
Thanks for having me here.
Erin Geiger (00:46):
So I would love to learn a little bit more about
you and your background, how yougot started, because you and I
haven't chatted about thatbefore. So I'm super curious.
Unknown (00:56):
Yeah, well, let's see how I got started in funnels and
automation is when I got intoonline business, what I noticed
in especially in the coachingand the online course spaces, it
was a massive overconsumption oflearning. And then a big gap
with implementation. So many newonline entrepreneurs were taking
(01:19):
all the courses and joining allthe groups, but then there's
this gap in implementing it. Andwhen I dug in a little further,
it mostly boils down to, to alot of tech overwhelm, like
there's a huge learning curve,and how to do all of these
things that we have to do whenwe try to do business online,
you can't become a marketer anda copywriter and all the things.
(01:40):
But implementation is a realstruggle. And then it's super
noisy out there. So everyone hasa different opinion on how to do
things. But then very few areactually showing people how to
do it and get it done and moveforward. So I've seen inside a
lot of businesses, and I trulybelieve that automation is the
great equalizer. So it'ssomething that everyone can use,
(02:04):
it's like having an assistantworking for you 24/7, it can be
authentic still and intimate.
Depending on how you how you useit. And it can even it'll do a
better job of following up withyour people than you can. So
it's definitely something thatgives entrepreneurs new or
experienced a lot of breathingspace in their business. And so
how I came to just to be the,the automations tech nerd is,
(02:25):
well, I've always been a nerdAaron. So I grew up with a dad
who used to build computers. AndI learned MS DOS as a kid as
sort of just a natural talent.
And so I feel like often I'mlike that translator between the
old school marketing and techside of the industry. And then
(02:48):
the, you know, the normal peoplerunning businesses online and
selling their knowledge online.
So I've sort of feel like I canbridge that gap a little bit.
Erin Geiger (02:57):
Yeah, that's awesome. And yeah, I mean, I
will raise my hand here and belike, I have been one of those
entrepreneurs where I'm like, Ijust want to learn, learn,
learn, learn, learn.
Unknown (03:07):
It's my favorite. It's my toxic trait. It's my favorite
procrastination technique,actually, oh, I just need to
learn more about whatever thatI'm not getting. Anyways,
exactly.
Erin Geiger (03:17):
It's like,
Unknown (03:17):
I'll do it. We all do it. Yeah,
Erin Geiger (03:19):
it's like execution. What? No, we're still
learning our craft here. That'sawesome. So when you and I were
chatting earlier, you wrote, soI'm all about email marketing,
there is a camp that says emailsare dead. I don't believe that,
I think that you could stillconnect with your audience very
well, and in a in an intimateway. And it's more intimate than
(03:42):
social media. And I think it's agreat way to connect to your to
your audience. And so youactually have a mini course on
that topic called WTF are tags.
Unknown (03:54):
I am seeing email all day every day. And you know what
the data backs that up? Yeah.
100%. And the more you put intoemail marketing, the more you
get out of it. And the problemis, is it's a lot of people,
it's a hot mess in the back end.
100, right. And there's somefoundational things when it
comes especially to automatingyour emails that people miss,
(04:15):
and it just makes things harderin the long run. So some simple,
simple strategies can help withthat.
Erin Geiger (04:21):
I know for sure, and I think that tagging and
then we're going to dive deeplisteners into this because I
think that that's something thata lot of people don't even use,
right so it's there it's just itcan it plays in so well it's
automation freeing up your timeto do other things while still
dedicating your your emails tospecific groups of people. So
(04:44):
get ready, guys. Cheryl's gonnatell us like what are these tags
that you speak of? Why youshould care? Oh, and I love it
because you even have it boildown to like there's like three
types of tags that she's goingto go and
Unknown (04:58):
you were all one of them. maybe even more than one
of them. I've been all three.
Erin Geiger (05:03):
It's gonna be I am like so intrigued right now. So
let's dive in. Well, I guess weshould start at the beginning,
right? Like for, what are tags?
And what can they do for us? Andlet's just go from there,
Cheryl, let's do it.
Unknown (05:14):
Yeah, let's start where people that don't know what
we're talking about. Today tags,if you don't know, we're gonna
start with some industry jargon,because when it comes to email
marketing platforms, they alluse different jargon. And just
to make it a little harder foreveryone, some people, some
platforms call it tags, somecall it segments, some have
(05:35):
lists, some groups, some have, Idon't know, there's, they call
them different things. But whatwe're talking about when I'm
talking about tags, is a simpleand intuitive way to sort your
contacts based on theirinterests, preferences, and any
special attributes that set themapart from each other. And then
(05:55):
they can also be used to triggerautomation. So they can also be
a functional tool, as well asgiving us information about our
subscribers. And so I like to,you know, maybe showing my age
here, but I come from, you know,when we weren't all online doing
everything. And I've worked inour office, right and
administration in the corporateworld. And I like to think of
(06:19):
tags as sticky notes on my fileson my Manila file folder files
of my clients or my contacts.
Tags are like those color codedsticky notes that helped me keep
track of who this person is theactions they've, you know,
things phone calls we've had, oremails we've had with each other
things they've done. And so inmy mind, it's like, that's how
we keep track of who is who andhow they can be unique and
(06:41):
special to us, even at scale.
Erin Geiger (06:45):
That's great. And do you mind giving a few
examples of what a tag might beas far as grouping your list as
well as the automation aspects?
Unknown (06:54):
Yeah, let's get into that. But first, maybe to
clarify, we could define what isa segmentation like what are
segments and segmentationbecause there's a bit of
confusion between tags andsegments. And that's that
industry jargon again, right?
segments are the process ofdividing your market of
potential buyers into groupsbased on their characteristics.
(07:16):
So that groups people together,who will respond similarly to
marketing strategies or to shareor that share similar traits or
interests or needs. And sothat's different than tags,
because tags are just a way youcan segment your list. So
segmentation is the strategy.
(07:37):
And tags can be a tool used toimplement it. So but they aren't
only used for segmentation,they're also something that can
do actions inside of yourautomation as well. So they can,
you can use them in your backend admin to organize your work.
You can track people'sengagements collect data on
(07:58):
marketing campaigns. And so theycan actually trigger other
automation to start based onpeople's actions as well. So
they're a little bitsegmentation is the strategy
takes are one of the tools thatwe can use to do that. Right. So
what was your question? Sorry,the three my favorite kinds of
tags.
Erin Geiger (08:18):
No, I wanted to really, I think we were still at
that foundation. Because somepeople are piled, like you're
saying words.
Unknown (08:26):
It's a lot of words. So if we
Erin Geiger (08:28):
could just give them the audience, just a couple
of examples of like, what a tagcould be used for, like you can
tag people who've downloaded acertain piece of content, and,
you know, and then how yousample of using tags and
automation. And then we can getinto the three types of tags. So
I'm super curious about that.
Unknown (08:47):
That's my favorite.
Okay, so my three favorite usesfor tags. One of the easiest
ones is to be a low key stalker.
So you can tag people when theylike, when they join your list,
like how they joined your list,they got this lead magnet, like
where they came from how theyjoined your list in the first
(09:09):
place. Anything that they'veclicked on, you can tag they
clicked on link to x sales page,so you can sort of know what
they're doing with your businessso that's one of my favorites so
you can be a low key stalker byjust adding tags throughout your
automation so that you know whatpeople have done you know, you
look up you want to look someoneup and then you can see on their
file oh that well they found methrough this lead magnet and
(09:32):
then they took this course andthen they you know they clicked
on this link in an email and sonow you know who you're talking
to. Right You know, thebackground. So that's one of my
favorite uses. Another one is tobe a traffic light. So that is
using it to start and stopautomations and so tags I should
(09:53):
clarify for anyone brand new.
They're added within your withinyour emails and within your
system. So you This isn'tanything you're doing manually,
you set it up one time, rightwhen you set up what you're
doing. And when you thinkthrough your strategy in advance
of all the information you mightwant to know, and then you can
sort of build it in, and thenyou don't have to think about it
again. So this isn't somethingyou need to do regularly, you
(10:14):
just need to sort of thinkthrough the strategy when you
build a new automation. I don'twant to overwhelm everyone like,
Oh, my God, what do you mean atraffic light? Do I have to be
turning things on and off? No,that is a good point, my system,
now you set it up, and then itruns. But I like to use tags to
start and stop. So somebodysigns up for a lead magnet, I
(10:34):
might use a tag at the end ofdelivering that to start a
welcome sequence or get to knowyou sequence or I might, maybe
they've gone through that maybeit's time to sell them something
and send them to an evergreenfunnel. So you can do a lot of
traffic control with tags. Youdon't have to do a lot of
systems. You don't have to usetags to do that. But some some
systems you do. But it can beone of the ways you can do it.
(10:56):
And I like it because it's veryvisual, and I can see what's
happening within my automations.
And then my third favorite is toact as a bouncer and check
everyone's ID. So I build intagging conditionals when people
at the start of my automations.
So that's checking a lot ofsystems, we'll call it the if
when, if one thing can beconfusing if when boxes in
(11:18):
automation. So that's just a wayof saying, hey, what tasks does
this person have? And shouldthey even be here? Should they
even be getting these emails?
Because it's, we've all been onpeople's lists. And we've
probably all done it at onepoint where someone will sign up
for something and get thewelcome sequence. And then
they'll sign up. You know, wehave super fans, they sign up
(11:40):
for all the things and then theyget like double the emails
they've already gotten. Andthey're like, Oh, that's so
embarrassing. How do I stopdoing that? And you can just
build in little bouncer gates atthe front of your automation
saying, Hey, should this personget these emails? And then you
can route them where they shouldgo if they shouldn't be there?
Yep. Now, those are my threefavorites.
Erin Geiger (11:59):
I love I love the visualization of the bouncer,
the traffic light andeverything. That's genius. We
need to
Unknown (12:07):
check the ID right. You gotta check. Are you VIP? Should
you be in this one? Or shouldyou be in this sequence?
Erin Geiger (12:13):
Oh, that's great. I love it.
Unknown (12:15):
You can give good service that way it looks it
looks professional, right whenyou're not making those little
mistakes. But that is if you'renew. Don't let it stop you
though. Better people get toemails than not no emails. Yeah.
No. 100%. But as you start torefine, these are layers that
you can build in.
Erin Geiger (12:33):
Yeah, no. And it's it's really good to bring up
because I mean, I've had it towhere it's like, I have a
welcome sequence. And itautomatically gets triggered
when they download a piece ofcontent. And it's like, okay,
well, what if they come inagain, and download another
piece of content? Like I don'twant that, you know, it's so
it's like, you don't want toduplicate the the welcome
sequences or your nurturesequences as well. Yeah, this is
(12:55):
really good that we're talkingabout
Unknown (12:56):
the little bouncer if when situation at the top and
check those tags. Yeah.
Erin Geiger (13:03):
Okay, and so the three types of taggers. That's a
different situation.
Unknown (13:10):
So who are we as people inside of our email platforms,
we're the same people that areinside of our Google Drive's and
the big mess there as well.
Generally, I see three types ofpeople when it comes to tagging.
And the first one is the willynilly tanker. So I also call
this Rando tagging. And it feelslike a bit like drunk Mad Libs.
(13:32):
And this is probably the mostcommon when you know who you
are, you're building out anemail sequence and you see the
little Tag button. And you feellike it should do it. Something
there, you know, should takesomething but you don't really
know what you should do. Oryou've never really thought of a
strategy. And so you give it atag and you give it a random
(13:53):
name. And then what happens andthen later, you try to remember
what it was for, in the life ofyou can't figure out what you
were trying, like, why you madethe day or what is for the
purposes, or you just can'tfigure out what the heck you
were thinking, right? You don'tknow what the function is. And
then mistakes can happen andopportunities can be missed. But
(14:15):
I think everyone has done that.
I think all of us I actually hada client and I was cleaning up
her tags and she had whenprobably leftover from when she
was new, right? No shade we shewas tagging. She was trying it
out. But the tag name wasliterally bought the thing.
(14:39):
That's it, that's all it was.
And this is somebody with many,many different offers and a
membership and a course and likeall the things and there was
this tag buried in the depths ofher email platform. That's it
but the thing and I'm like thistells me nothing. This is not
helpful. So that would be awilly nilly taker. But then you
might be in overtake or overtakeor is are coming from a really
(15:05):
good place because they knowtags are important. But again,
they they're coming at itwithout any strategy mapped out.
And so they just tag all overthe place, like, tag vomit
everywhere all over the place.
And they end up with so manytags with no clear jobs for
them. And multiple tags for thesack, same thing. And so when
(15:25):
they go looking for one, theydon't really know what to use,
because there's too many. And soyou know what they do with that
overwhelmed, they just make anyone? Can you tag? And that's not
really helpful for data or foryou know, if you were to build
in a gate check like one ofthose What did I call them a
bouncer checking ID into anautomation to make sure the
(15:47):
right people should be there andyou go to look at the tags going
people with what tags should getthese emails and you see 37
similar ones. That's nothelpful. It's even more
confusing, right? So yeah,that's there's a lot of overtake
errs out there. And their theirmechanism is just to keep adding
them. And then we have this isthis is actually really common
(16:11):
to take avoider. Right, yeah,you know, you are you're like,
Okay, this is coming from aplace of frustration or
overwhelm, or just generalintimidated by the tech. And
they just avoid the whole dump.
They don't take it all. And thetruth is, you can actually get
away with that for a while whenyou're new. Really, it's fine.
But then there comes a time whenyou can't continue talking to
(16:33):
everyone on your list the exactsame way, right. And there'll be
come a time where people willget your welcome sequence twice,
and it's confusing. So it's finewhen you're new to to not have a
tag strategy. But you will runinto situations as you grow
where you're gonna wish you hadthat data, and that those
(16:54):
systems in place, but yeah,you'll grow out of it. And then
you'll need data and data iswhere predictability and then
confidence can come from. Andwhen you're new, being able to
check, like how many people didthis action when I asked them
to, just by pulling a quick tag,like you don't have to run a big
report, you can just look atyour tag numbers. It's so
(17:15):
confidence building when you cansee things working.
Erin Geiger (17:20):
Yeah, I love it.
And I think that's like a wholeother conversation too, is like,
the analytics of your email. Andby the second I kind of feel
like one person could be allthree. Right? And
Unknown (17:33):
yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Erin Geiger (17:36):
It could be the avoider at first I'm not too
sure about this.
Unknown (17:39):
Depends on the day and depends on the day.
Erin Geiger (17:44):
Like jump in and like go walk and yeah, so I just
feel like it could be like ayour tag journey. And so like,
what can it because we're allabout like, you know, learning
and implementing and executingon this show. So what do you
suggest that people are startingout with tags, like what is like
the kind of the first thing thatyou recommend that they do,
(18:06):
maybe they can even do thattoday.
Unknown (18:09):
So I have a game changing tip for you today. And
it's something I teach in mycourse WTF or takes it to
greater detail, obviously. Butthere's one thing you can just
do today easily and simply. Andthat's to use categories for
your tags, give your tags a job.
And all I mean by that not everysystem has categories for their
(18:30):
tags, I just mean name itsomething at the beginning of
the tag that makes sense forwhat it's doing. Right. So if
you're tracking an activity,someone's done, like a link
they've clicked or somethingthey've downloaded, put activity
in the at the front in bracketsbefore you put your tag name.
(18:51):
Because now when you see thatticker, like oh, that's an
activity, someone's take it andit makes sense. You're like, Oh,
I know what the job is for thattag. Right. Another category you
could use I like to use onecalled subscriber and that notes
their preferences on my listright? Like did they do have
consent to email them that'simportant to me? Do they like a
(19:15):
weekly email or a monthly email?
Have they asked for only emailsabout what they've purchased and
not marketing emails? Or if youhave like some programs use
lists as well if you havedifferent things going on, you
can use tags just to like noteall the preferences and that one
(19:35):
is really helpful when you whenyou go to send emails because
you can just you know make surethat you're pulling people that
have said they want your emailit's just a really simple way to
group them all right, becausethey will have there will be
people that don't want yourmarketing emails but you still
have to be able to email aboutyour offer like you know things
they've purchased with you iftheir clients so tagging is a
(19:58):
simple way to do that. Can youthat just means putting that
word at the front, just changedusing it in your naming
structure is all you need to dois give your take the job. And
pick some names like I have, Ithink nine categories that I
teach and use in my tech namingformula. But you can make them
(20:18):
up to just whatever makes sensefor you. Just pick some
categories of of things you needto know, and name them and put
those at the beginning of thetag so that when you're looking
at your tag list, they're allgrouped together.
Erin Geiger (20:31):
I love that it makes it so much Yeah. and
organized. And you know, you canquickly see what it is that you
need to work with right then. So
Unknown (20:39):
yeah, one of my favorite actually, I said that
already, I guess I have lots offavorites. tech nerd over here.
Another one of my favorites is astatus category of tags. So I
just used the status in bracketsbefore I named the tag. And I
love to add those at thebeginning of an automation and
remove them at the end. So Iknow when people are going
(21:00):
through, they're currentlyinside of an automation. So the
beginning of a welcome sequence,I'll add status in welcome
sequence and then remove it atthe end, or in Evergreen funnel
or whatever you're doing.
Because maybe when you send youryour newsletter, you want to not
send everybody who's currentlygetting another, you know, an
automation, right? So it'sreally super easy to to control
(21:23):
that if they have a tag whilethey're in that automation. You
don't have to get you know, youdon't have to go looking for
that information that's right atyour fingertips. So that's one
of my favorites.
Erin Geiger (21:33):
Yeah, yeah, that's just makes it so much more
streamlined. Yeah, we mentioneddata a few minutes ago. So
there's so much you can track. Imean, it's like, I could drive
yourself nuts. So what are justa few data points that you're
like, Listen, if you're going totrack anything, you know, like
track this with your tags, thisis these are the benefits you
(21:55):
get from using tags is the datayou can collect. This is what
really matters, especially whenyou're first starting out.
Unknown (22:00):
Yeah, so you can collect a lot. And what I
recommend when you're firststarting is to collect it even
if you don't know why you needit yet. Because having it when
you do need it later, is sowonderful when you're like oh, I
was I was so smart back then,and I collected this data,
you'll feel so proud. Right? Sojust think through it helps for
(22:24):
me when I'm building automationor sequences to really get in
the shoes of your subscriberyour contact and experience your
automation funnels from theirperspective. And think of them
as just a real human like, whatdo we need to know about this
person to give them good serviceor to get them offers that
matter to them. So some datathat would be good to collect
(22:49):
would be like what emails theyshould be getting, or not
getting. So we talked about thatwith like a category subscriber
category or something that willhelp you know, at a glance, then
you can just see like, you canpull most systems, you can pull
reports and get into the data.
But like, it's so easy just topull the tags and see how many
people have this tag. It's sosimple, right? How many people
(23:10):
have opted out of this salessequence, or how many people are
on my newsletter list or want toget my newsletter, so it's super
easy to collect that. Anothertype of data I always recommend
is actions they take with you.
So clicking through to certainsales pages. Now I don't do that
(23:30):
for every link in every email,because some of that data is not
really relevant. If I'm linkingto someone else's blog post or
something unless I meant doingaffiliate sales for them, I
don't really need to track that.
But in if I'm in a salespromotion right now I track you
know when to know when theyclick links to the sales page,
or the webinar page. Or if theyare clicking through to like the
(23:52):
book with me page to thecalendar, but then you know, and
then I can just easily see thatdata at a glance, also interests
that they have. So sometimes Iwill double tag a link click.
I'll double tag I will add a tagfor with the action they took.
Right but then I also will maybeadd a more general tag thinking
(24:14):
ahead to why I might need thisdata. I might take like if it's
an affiliate sale like let's sayI'm promoting a certain kind of
software friends course. I willtrack you know, click this link
but then I might add another tagthat says interested in topic a
because then when I can pulltags, you know if I'm trying to
(24:34):
figure out I need to read a blogpost or do some social posts
what are people even into thatare in my world? You say oh, a
lot of people are into thistopic, just simply from having
added that on the front end whenyou send emails. So that is like
a more advanced thing when youstart thinking through your
customer journey. But it's superhelpful especially if you have
(24:55):
if you're a multi passionateentrepreneur and you have like
more like various offers thatare not necessarily the same
type of buyer, that's reallyvaluable information for for you
to email them differently whenyou know what they're interested
in, right? Other data where theyare in your funnel or your
automation ecosystem, that'swhat I mentioned with status
(25:16):
tagging. So it's easy for me tosee how many people are aware
and what what people are doing.
Any events that they've signedup for, and attended or know
showed was helpful as well,that's really good data to have.
And, of course, anything they'vepurchased. I mean, that's super
important to know. And it's nicethat they have a tag when they
(25:37):
purchase something so that youknow, maybe you want to email
people who bought this onething, not your whole list,
super easy to just send an emailto people with that tag. And
then if you have any programs, Ilike to use tags to, to control
and to watch the access levelthat they have. Like if you have
any kind of a membership orgroup program. If they have
(25:58):
access, or if they've you know,if they've already cancelled,
it's, it's nice to know theywere a member, but then they've
cancelled you're not going toemail them the same way. You're
not sending them the Zoom linkthis week. So I'm tagging and
you build them in as you go. Ithink I feel like I don't want
to scare any newbies off. Youbuild it as you go. And you do
(26:19):
one thing at a time. If you cantake anything away from our chat
today, just being aware that youcan collect this kind of data
easily using tags and just beingaware next time you're in your
automation or your email system.
And think through like whatwould be really helpful to know
about the people that arereading this email today. You
(26:40):
know, and that and just thattype of thinking is really all
you need to start, you'll startcoming up with strategy that
will help you later if you justthink from that perspective.
Erin Geiger (26:52):
Yeah. And if you're leveraging tags for automation,
right, I am a huge proponent ofautomating automating and
outsourcing What's you can?
Where should people start? Likewhat are your, you know,
recommended ways? Like if you'regoing to use tags for
automating? Where do you thinkthat people should look first?
Unknown (27:17):
Like how they should get started tagging or for help
with tags, you
Erin Geiger (27:21):
know, like, there's so many uses for tags when
you're Automate, you know, whenyou're automating things. And so
just to kind of cut through theclutter, like, what are a couple
of uses? Do you think I mean, wementioned the welcome CCleaner
triggering, right, and so I'mjust curious, your thoughts on
that.
Unknown (27:35):
Probably the first one that I would use, the simplest
one would just be those actiontags, just those link clicks,
okay, it's super easy, you don'treally have to think a lot
through you write an email, andyou're linking to a page where
they can buy something. Mostsystems, when you make a link in
your email, you can add a tagwhen they click that link. So
(27:57):
anyone who clicks it gets a tagthat and you can name it, you
know, action or activity, clickSales page, link name at the
actual sales page, so you knowwhat you're looking for later.
And just just something simplelike that, and now you can
start, you know, your brain willstart thinking through, okay,
now, like, five times today, Ican just go quickly, look how
(28:18):
many people have that tag, rightand see how things are doing.
And then also, the reason whythat's important, because you
can also generally see linkclicks in in your email
platform. But the reason whyit's helpful is later, you know,
if you're doing a promotion, andyou can click, you can see how
many people bought, and how manypeople clicked those links. So
(28:40):
you can sort of see who's takingaction from your emails versus
who maybe came from socialmedia. You just have more to
look through. And and sometimeswhen we're collecting the data
front, we don't always know whyit'll be useful later. But
there's so many times that whereI have collected it on the front
end, and then just be like, Wow,I'm glad I have that
information. I can make betterdecisions or quicker decisions,
(29:03):
as well. But I would just startwith that, because it's super
simple. And like I said, it'sstaring you at the face that
button usually and you'rewondering what to do with it.
That's what I want you to dowith it. I want you to give it a
category so that you know whatthe heck it's for. And then give
it a nice name a nicedescriptive name so you can
follow your breadcrumbs later.
And just start watching activitypeople are taking inside in your
(29:25):
emails. Yeah, just start startsimple with that.
Erin Geiger (29:31):
Yeah, and that way, you know, like who's highly
engaged, and then you can startcurating your messaging and
content toward their interests.
So that's this is so valuableand a lot of our listeners, some
of them are first starting out,some of them are further along
in their entrepreneurialjourney. But besides tags, what,
what tool or what process haveyou come up with that has kind
(29:56):
of made your business is morestreamline are impacted it
positively.
Unknown (30:04):
Well, I mean, I could preach all day about automation
platforms. Because we'veestablished that already, I
would say my next favorite toolthat has made a really big
difference in my life is is aproject management tool like
Trello, my entire brain lives inthere. I like Trello because I'm
very visual, you know, somepeople like Asana or click up or
(30:26):
like various different ones, Idon't think which one matters,
pick the one your brain workswith the best. For me, I love
Trello because it's very visual.
But I use it as a brain dumpingground my entire life. Even my
personal life is in there, likemy checklists for what to pack
to go camping with the kids isin there. And my favorite
feature is just the search. Ican just search my words and
(30:46):
find my brain dumps of things Iwas working on or thinking. It's
just yeah, I'm in thereconstantly. That's probably one
of my favorite tools.
Erin Geiger (30:59):
Yeah, Trello is a great one. And you're right. I
mean, I've used asana and sothey all have their pros and
cons, but whichever one you'regoing to use is the one that you
should. All right. Yeah, forsure. It's like if people asked
like, what kind of workout youknow, should I do and I'm like
the one that you'll do
Unknown (31:16):
100% 100 That's the answer.
Erin Geiger (31:20):
So in all of this, like, what do you is there
anything that you kind ofincorporate into your routine?
It could be daily, it could beweekly, it could just be when
you need it? That kind of keepsyou your your head right your
your attentional your you know,it keeps you grounded. Is there
anything that some peoplemeditate? Some people work out?
Is there anything that youincorporate?
Unknown (31:41):
Absolutely, I feel like entrepreneurship is the biggest
personal development program onthe planet. So much comes up as
you're building a business inyour your mind and your body.
And I found for me, more somaticembodiment type practices really
helped me and my favorite is EFTtapping would be what I do as
(32:05):
needed. And I'm super lucky thatmy biz bestie is an EFT tapping
practitioner and has a programfor entrepreneurs. So she has
like little ones when you'reoverwhelmed or when you need to
focus and they're short little15 minute audios, and they're my
lifeline. Because it's one thingto have mindset practices. And I
(32:27):
do that as well. But you reallyneed sometimes it's in your body
right there. Just likeespecially for me
procrastination, it's it's aform of perfectionism and
procrastination work together alot for me in business. And I
really discovered last year isthere's a fear of visibility in
there as well. And a lot of thatis stored in the body. So just
(32:48):
that, you know, quick 1015minute practice is massive for
me for sure.
Erin Geiger (32:52):
Okay, that's really cool. I don't know too much
about it. Is it something that Imean, I've heard of it, but it's
something that you do,consistently, or just, it's just
a tool that you grab when youneed it,
Unknown (33:03):
whatever you want, whatever you want. It's it's
super easy. It's what does shesay? My friend says, it sounds
Whoo. But it's like we wouldJason like it's a sciency. Also,
there's meridians in the body,you just do some tapping on your
head and face in a certainorder. And I love it because
(33:25):
you're not buying it. There's noemotional bypassing with it. I
find with some mindsetpractices, it feels like I'm
trying to convince myself to bepositive or have convinced
myself but I'm not really buyingit on the inside and like I say
the words but I'm not reallybelieving myself. And EFT
tapping doesn't do that youstart with where you're
truthfully are those negativefeelings and then you work
(33:46):
through them into feelingbetter. But it's it's it's we
would jacent I would say it'sit's I think Laura Belgrade said
that first but it's it'ssomething that's quite sciency
it's effective. If you findsomething you know, a good a
good couple of audios you canuse it's short, and it it makes
(34:06):
me better every day when I needit. For sure.
Erin Geiger (34:09):
Yeah. When I love the fact that it's genuine and
it's like it's goes through yourtruth, right? It's not just like
squashing those negative.
thoughts or emotions. It's likestarting Yeah, where you are.
And so that's that's reallygreat. As you look forward to
the future, what what do you seefor yourself? What do you see
for your business?
Unknown (34:32):
Well, I'm in a state of transition right now actually,
I've spent the last number ofyears I think since 2017 or
2018. working directly withclients and doing a lot of done
for you stuff. And so I'm theperson they bring on when they
just can't, they just can't withthe tech and the automation. And
(34:55):
I love that because because Ican and make great change in
their business but for me I'm inhad a period of transition where
I want to do more teaching togive people the power to do it
for themselves, because thoseclients have to have a certain
level of success to be able toafford to do that. Right. And
there's such a big growth in theonline industry right now. And
I've just noticed this big gapwith the learning and not
(35:17):
implementing. And I just reallywant to be able to reach more
people in and help them getsystems. So they can make more
money without just doing so damnmuch like everybody's doing the
most right now. And I see peopledoing every strategy that every
marketer, you know, is doing,and there's fads and, but
they're not seeing results. AndI think a lot of it, there's a
(35:39):
big gap in the learning and theknowledge about the tools that
you need to use to implement notjust the strategies. So that's
my hope, my hope is to grow moreof a teaching based side of my
business so that I can so that Ican work with more more people.
Erin Geiger (35:58):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's great. You know, it's
more about empowering, you know,people like you can do this on
your own, you don't outsourceit. So yeah, no, I love that.
And teaching one too many isthat a one to one means that
you're impacting, impacting morepeople and helping them grow
their businesses,
Unknown (36:13):
and my family to be to be fair, I mean, I have three
kids, so it impacts me as well.
You can only work with so manyone on one clients. So it's it's
Win Win across the board. Butlike you said about outsourcing
a founder that also we're notgoing to knock out sourcing.
However, there are a few thingsin your business, I feel you
really need to master firstbefore you can successfully
(36:35):
outsource is I've cleaned upsome real messes in some systems
that someone outsource tosomebody because they didn't
know how to use it. I've evenhad, you know, clients who have
paid me a lot of money to buildthem systems, but they had zero
desire to learn how to use them.
And it's not sustainable, if youdon't have, you know, a fair
(36:56):
understanding of how to how touse your system. So I think it's
one of those things in businessthat as the as the owner, you
need to sort of buckle down andlearn to write
Erin Geiger (37:05):
Yeah, you have need some level of knowledge, right?
Because if you're just hiringsomebody you don't know if
they're doing the job that youneed them to be doing
Unknown (37:14):
or not. I think it would be the same as
copywriting. Wouldn't you agree?
100% you need a level ofunderstanding before you can
outsource Well,
Erin Geiger (37:22):
yeah, there's so when I work with clients,
there's foundational informationthat needs to be discussed and
agreed upon. Yeah, can't justYeah, jump in with that without
No. So I mean, you
Unknown (37:32):
could but it wouldn't be good
Erin Geiger (37:34):
to do that. Yeah.
So where where can people findyou online if they want to work
with you or find out moreinformation?
Unknown (37:42):
Yeah, well come over to my website is Cheryl
rhetoric.com. And on my ContactMe page, you can see you can
contact me a bunch of ways I'mon I don't know what's on their
messenger Instagram, there's achat box. We can hang out on
boxer if you want. Nice. I'm allover the place. Actually, you
know what, come find me onInstagram at Cheryl Rarick
(38:04):
marketing, because I'm terribleat Instagram, you'll see there's
nothing on my page. And I needpeople to come like come to me.
And so that I feel the thepositive peer pressure to like
actually show up there and andget over my visibility problems
and posts. Come find me so thatI so that I feel like I have
(38:27):
friends over there.
Erin Geiger (38:29):
Okay, cool. Yeah, well, I'll include all those
links in the show notes. And weI asked this question to
everybody, because my husbandand I are just big music fans.
And so we always want to know ifyou could only listen to one
music artists for the rest ofyour life. Man, who would it be?
Oh,
Unknown (38:48):
what a question.
Erin Geiger (38:50):
Yeah. It's sort of a jerk move. Oh. Oh, it's like
Unknown (38:57):
it's hot. My brain is torn in two. Okay, for the rest
of my life, probably. Probablythe Foo Fighters because that is
like me and my husband weddingsong and we have seen them in
concert. So it comes withnostalgia. It comes with
memories more than just themusic itself. If I can only
(39:18):
listen to one thing the rest ofmy life has to be something that
comes with a lot of really goodmemories.
Erin Geiger (39:21):
Yeah, okay. No, I like that. i It's so funny with
the Foo Fighters. I did notreally listen to that love
nirvana. You know, all that, youknow? Yeah. Yeah, I wasn't a big
fan when firefighters firstformed. But then in the past few
years, I'm like, Okay, I seeyou.
Unknown (39:38):
So I went to a lot of concerts. So it has to do with
us being menial in our youth inour 20s Just doing concerts all
the time. But at the time, mybrain also wants to pick biggie
because that makes me want todance. I do like whenever I'm
doing any web design or salespages that I love what I'm
listening to so I don't have tochoose the memories. I asked him
(40:00):
Here's the memories. Yeah.
Erin Geiger (40:01):
No, I love that.
Cheryl. Thank you so much fortaking the time. I have so
enjoyed our conversation. Yes, Istill have I. It's so great. So
I will put all their links inthe show notes. And yeah,
thanks. Thanks again for joiningus and listeners. We will be
posting this soon and we will beback with an all new episode as
well. So thanks for listening.
(40:25):
Thanks for tuning in to theSmall Business Big mindset
podcast. To keep the fun going.
Check out our Facebook groupstart and scale an online
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follow us and give us a review.
(40:47):
As always be authentic, bring aninsane amount of value and keep
crushing it
Welcome to the Small Business Big mindset
podcast, where we dive intotactical strategies to grow your
business and make an impact onthis world. A huge part of
success is keeping your mindsetand vision on track. So this is
a major part of our process. Andthis podcast. Let's do this.
(00:26):
Welcome to the Small BusinessBig mindset podcast this week,
we have Cheryl Rarick. She isthe anti hustle business
strategist for automations. Andshe's a funnels Pro, I think we
all need a lot ofsimplification. And let's do
things anti hustle, like welcomeSheryl to the show.
Unknown (00:44):
Thanks for having me here.
Erin Geiger (00:46):
So I would love to learn a little bit more about
you and your background, how yougot started, because you and I
haven't chatted about thatbefore. So I'm super curious.
Unknown (00:56):
Yeah, well, let's see how I got started in funnels and
automation is when I got intoonline business, what I noticed
in especially in the coachingand the online course spaces, it
was a massive overconsumption oflearning. And then a big gap
with implementation. So many newonline entrepreneurs were taking
(01:19):
all the courses and joining allthe groups, but then there's
this gap in implementing it. Andwhen I dug in a little further,
it mostly boils down to, to alot of tech overwhelm, like
there's a huge learning curve,and how to do all of these
things that we have to do whenwe try to do business online,
you can't become a marketer anda copywriter and all the things.
(01:40):
But implementation is a realstruggle. And then it's super
noisy out there. So everyone hasa different opinion on how to do
things. But then very few areactually showing people how to
do it and get it done and moveforward. So I've seen inside a
lot of businesses, and I trulybelieve that automation is the
great equalizer. So it'ssomething that everyone can use,
(02:04):
it's like having an assistantworking for you 24/7, it can be
authentic still and intimate.
Depending on how you how you useit. And it can even it'll do a
better job of following up withyour people than you can. So
it's definitely something thatgives entrepreneurs new or
experienced a lot of breathingspace in their business. And so
how I came to just to be the,the automations tech nerd is,
(02:25):
well, I've always been a nerdAaron. So I grew up with a dad
who used to build computers. AndI learned MS DOS as a kid as
sort of just a natural talent.
And so I feel like often I'mlike that translator between the
old school marketing and techside of the industry. And then
(02:48):
the, you know, the normal peoplerunning businesses online and
selling their knowledge online.
So I've sort of feel like I canbridge that gap a little bit.
Erin Geiger (02:57):
Yeah, that's awesome. And yeah, I mean, I
will raise my hand here and belike, I have been one of those
entrepreneurs where I'm like, Ijust want to learn, learn,
learn, learn, learn.
Unknown (03:07):
It's my favorite. It's my toxic trait. It's my favorite
procrastination technique,actually, oh, I just need to
learn more about whatever thatI'm not getting. Anyways,
exactly.
Erin Geiger (03:17):
It's like,
Unknown (03:17):
I'll do it. We all do it. Yeah,
Erin Geiger (03:19):
it's like execution. What? No, we're still
learning our craft here. That'sawesome. So when you and I were
chatting earlier, you wrote, soI'm all about email marketing,
there is a camp that says emailsare dead. I don't believe that,
I think that you could stillconnect with your audience very
well, and in a in an intimateway. And it's more intimate than
(03:42):
social media. And I think it's agreat way to connect to your to
your audience. And so youactually have a mini course on
that topic called WTF are tags.
Unknown (03:54):
I am seeing email all day every day. And you know what
the data backs that up? Yeah.
100%. And the more you put intoemail marketing, the more you
get out of it. And the problemis, is it's a lot of people,
it's a hot mess in the back end.
100, right. And there's somefoundational things when it
comes especially to automatingyour emails that people miss,
(04:15):
and it just makes things harderin the long run. So some simple,
simple strategies can help withthat.
Erin Geiger (04:21):
I know for sure, and I think that tagging and
then we're going to dive deeplisteners into this because I
think that that's something thata lot of people don't even use,
right so it's there it's just itcan it plays in so well it's
automation freeing up your timeto do other things while still
dedicating your your emails tospecific groups of people. So
(04:44):
get ready, guys. Cheryl's gonnatell us like what are these tags
that you speak of? Why youshould care? Oh, and I love it
because you even have it boildown to like there's like three
types of tags that she's goingto go and
Unknown (04:58):
you were all one of them. maybe even more than one
of them. I've been all three.
Erin Geiger (05:03):
It's gonna be I am like so intrigued right now. So
let's dive in. Well, I guess weshould start at the beginning,
right? Like for, what are tags?
And what can they do for us? Andlet's just go from there,
Cheryl, let's do it.
Unknown (05:14):
Yeah, let's start where people that don't know what
we're talking about. Today tags,if you don't know, we're gonna
start with some industry jargon,because when it comes to email
marketing platforms, they alluse different jargon. And just
to make it a little harder foreveryone, some people, some
platforms call it tags, somecall it segments, some have
(05:35):
lists, some groups, some have, Idon't know, there's, they call
them different things. But whatwe're talking about when I'm
talking about tags, is a simpleand intuitive way to sort your
contacts based on theirinterests, preferences, and any
special attributes that set themapart from each other. And then
(05:55):
they can also be used to triggerautomation. So they can also be
a functional tool, as well asgiving us information about our
subscribers. And so I like to,you know, maybe showing my age
here, but I come from, you know,when we weren't all online doing
everything. And I've worked inour office, right and
administration in the corporateworld. And I like to think of
(06:19):
tags as sticky notes on my fileson my Manila file folder files
of my clients or my contacts.
Tags are like those color codedsticky notes that helped me keep
track of who this person is theactions they've, you know,
things phone calls we've had, oremails we've had with each other
things they've done. And so inmy mind, it's like, that's how
we keep track of who is who andhow they can be unique and
(06:41):
special to us, even at scale.
Erin Geiger (06:45):
That's great. And do you mind giving a few
examples of what a tag might beas far as grouping your list as
well as the automation aspects?
Unknown (06:54):
Yeah, let's get into that. But first, maybe to
clarify, we could define what isa segmentation like what are
segments and segmentationbecause there's a bit of
confusion between tags andsegments. And that's that
industry jargon again, right?
segments are the process ofdividing your market of
potential buyers into groupsbased on their characteristics.
(07:16):
So that groups people together,who will respond similarly to
marketing strategies or to shareor that share similar traits or
interests or needs. And sothat's different than tags,
because tags are just a way youcan segment your list. So
segmentation is the strategy.
(07:37):
And tags can be a tool used toimplement it. So but they aren't
only used for segmentation,they're also something that can
do actions inside of yourautomation as well. So they can,
you can use them in your backend admin to organize your work.
You can track people'sengagements collect data on
(07:58):
marketing campaigns. And so theycan actually trigger other
automation to start based onpeople's actions as well. So
they're a little bitsegmentation is the strategy
takes are one of the tools thatwe can use to do that. Right. So
what was your question? Sorry,the three my favorite kinds of
tags.
Erin Geiger (08:18):
No, I wanted to really, I think we were still at
that foundation. Because somepeople are piled, like you're
saying words.
Unknown (08:26):
It's a lot of words. So if we
Erin Geiger (08:28):
could just give them the audience, just a couple
of examples of like, what a tagcould be used for, like you can
tag people who've downloaded acertain piece of content, and,
you know, and then how yousample of using tags and
automation. And then we can getinto the three types of tags. So
I'm super curious about that.
Unknown (08:47):
That's my favorite.
Okay, so my three favorite usesfor tags. One of the easiest
ones is to be a low key stalker.
So you can tag people when theylike, when they join your list,
like how they joined your list,they got this lead magnet, like
where they came from how theyjoined your list in the first
(09:09):
place. Anything that they'veclicked on, you can tag they
clicked on link to x sales page,so you can sort of know what
they're doing with your businessso that's one of my favorites so
you can be a low key stalker byjust adding tags throughout your
automation so that you know whatpeople have done you know, you
look up you want to look someoneup and then you can see on their
file oh that well they found methrough this lead magnet and
(09:32):
then they took this course andthen they you know they clicked
on this link in an email and sonow you know who you're talking
to. Right You know, thebackground. So that's one of my
favorite uses. Another one is tobe a traffic light. So that is
using it to start and stopautomations and so tags I should
(09:53):
clarify for anyone brand new.
They're added within your withinyour emails and within your
system. So you This isn'tanything you're doing manually,
you set it up one time, rightwhen you set up what you're
doing. And when you thinkthrough your strategy in advance
of all the information you mightwant to know, and then you can
sort of build it in, and thenyou don't have to think about it
again. So this isn't somethingyou need to do regularly, you
(10:14):
just need to sort of thinkthrough the strategy when you
build a new automation. I don'twant to overwhelm everyone like,
Oh, my God, what do you mean atraffic light? Do I have to be
turning things on and off? No,that is a good point, my system,
now you set it up, and then itruns. But I like to use tags to
start and stop. So somebodysigns up for a lead magnet, I
(10:34):
might use a tag at the end ofdelivering that to start a
welcome sequence or get to knowyou sequence or I might, maybe
they've gone through that maybeit's time to sell them something
and send them to an evergreenfunnel. So you can do a lot of
traffic control with tags. Youdon't have to do a lot of
systems. You don't have to usetags to do that. But some some
systems you do. But it can beone of the ways you can do it.
(10:56):
And I like it because it's veryvisual, and I can see what's
happening within my automations.
And then my third favorite is toact as a bouncer and check
everyone's ID. So I build intagging conditionals when people
at the start of my automations.
So that's checking a lot ofsystems, we'll call it the if
when, if one thing can beconfusing if when boxes in
(11:18):
automation. So that's just a wayof saying, hey, what tasks does
this person have? And shouldthey even be here? Should they
even be getting these emails?
Because it's, we've all been onpeople's lists. And we've
probably all done it at onepoint where someone will sign up
for something and get thewelcome sequence. And then
they'll sign up. You know, wehave super fans, they sign up
(11:40):
for all the things and then theyget like double the emails
they've already gotten. Andthey're like, Oh, that's so
embarrassing. How do I stopdoing that? And you can just
build in little bouncer gates atthe front of your automation
saying, Hey, should this personget these emails? And then you
can route them where they shouldgo if they shouldn't be there?
Yep. Now, those are my threefavorites.
Erin Geiger (11:59):
I love I love the visualization of the bouncer,
the traffic light andeverything. That's genius. We
need to
Unknown (12:07):
check the ID right. You gotta check. Are you VIP? Should
you be in this one? Or shouldyou be in this sequence?
Erin Geiger (12:13):
Oh, that's great. I love it.
Unknown (12:15):
You can give good service that way it looks it
looks professional, right whenyou're not making those little
mistakes. But that is if you'renew. Don't let it stop you
though. Better people get toemails than not no emails. Yeah.
No. 100%. But as you start torefine, these are layers that
you can build in.
Erin Geiger (12:33):
Yeah, no. And it's it's really good to bring up
because I mean, I've had it towhere it's like, I have a
welcome sequence. And itautomatically gets triggered
when they download a piece ofcontent. And it's like, okay,
well, what if they come inagain, and download another
piece of content? Like I don'twant that, you know, it's so
it's like, you don't want toduplicate the the welcome
sequences or your nurturesequences as well. Yeah, this is
(12:55):
really good that we're talkingabout
Unknown (12:56):
the little bouncer if when situation at the top and
check those tags. Yeah.
Erin Geiger (13:03):
Okay, and so the three types of taggers. That's a
different situation.
Unknown (13:10):
So who are we as people inside of our email platforms,
we're the same people that areinside of our Google Drive's and
the big mess there as well.
Generally, I see three types ofpeople when it comes to tagging.
And the first one is the willynilly tanker. So I also call
this Rando tagging. And it feelslike a bit like drunk Mad Libs.
(13:32):
And this is probably the mostcommon when you know who you
are, you're building out anemail sequence and you see the
little Tag button. And you feellike it should do it. Something
there, you know, should takesomething but you don't really
know what you should do. Oryou've never really thought of a
strategy. And so you give it atag and you give it a random
(13:53):
name. And then what happens andthen later, you try to remember
what it was for, in the life ofyou can't figure out what you
were trying, like, why you madethe day or what is for the
purposes, or you just can'tfigure out what the heck you
were thinking, right? You don'tknow what the function is. And
then mistakes can happen andopportunities can be missed. But
(14:15):
I think everyone has done that.
I think all of us I actually hada client and I was cleaning up
her tags and she had whenprobably leftover from when she
was new, right? No shade we shewas tagging. She was trying it
out. But the tag name wasliterally bought the thing.
(14:39):
That's it, that's all it was.
And this is somebody with many,many different offers and a
membership and a course and likeall the things and there was
this tag buried in the depths ofher email platform. That's it
but the thing and I'm like thistells me nothing. This is not
helpful. So that would be awilly nilly taker. But then you
might be in overtake or overtakeor is are coming from a really
(15:05):
good place because they knowtags are important. But again,
they they're coming at itwithout any strategy mapped out.
And so they just tag all overthe place, like, tag vomit
everywhere all over the place.
And they end up with so manytags with no clear jobs for
them. And multiple tags for thesack, same thing. And so when
(15:25):
they go looking for one, theydon't really know what to use,
because there's too many. And soyou know what they do with that
overwhelmed, they just make anyone? Can you tag? And that's not
really helpful for data or foryou know, if you were to build
in a gate check like one ofthose What did I call them a
bouncer checking ID into anautomation to make sure the
(15:47):
right people should be there andyou go to look at the tags going
people with what tags should getthese emails and you see 37
similar ones. That's nothelpful. It's even more
confusing, right? So yeah,that's there's a lot of overtake
errs out there. And their theirmechanism is just to keep adding
them. And then we have this isthis is actually really common
(16:11):
to take avoider. Right, yeah,you know, you are you're like,
Okay, this is coming from aplace of frustration or
overwhelm, or just generalintimidated by the tech. And
they just avoid the whole dump.
They don't take it all. And thetruth is, you can actually get
away with that for a while whenyou're new. Really, it's fine.
But then there comes a time whenyou can't continue talking to
(16:33):
everyone on your list the exactsame way, right. And there'll be
come a time where people willget your welcome sequence twice,
and it's confusing. So it's finewhen you're new to to not have a
tag strategy. But you will runinto situations as you grow
where you're gonna wish you hadthat data, and that those
(16:54):
systems in place, but yeah,you'll grow out of it. And then
you'll need data and data iswhere predictability and then
confidence can come from. Andwhen you're new, being able to
check, like how many people didthis action when I asked them
to, just by pulling a quick tag,like you don't have to run a big
report, you can just look atyour tag numbers. It's so
(17:15):
confidence building when you cansee things working.
Erin Geiger (17:20):
Yeah, I love it.
And I think that's like a wholeother conversation too, is like,
the analytics of your email. Andby the second I kind of feel
like one person could be allthree. Right? And
Unknown (17:33):
yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Erin Geiger (17:36):
It could be the avoider at first I'm not too
sure about this.
Unknown (17:39):
Depends on the day and depends on the day.
Erin Geiger (17:44):
Like jump in and like go walk and yeah, so I just
feel like it could be like ayour tag journey. And so like,
what can it because we're allabout like, you know, learning
and implementing and executingon this show. So what do you
suggest that people are startingout with tags, like what is like
the kind of the first thing thatyou recommend that they do,
(18:06):
maybe they can even do thattoday.
Unknown (18:09):
So I have a game changing tip for you today. And
it's something I teach in mycourse WTF or takes it to
greater detail, obviously. Butthere's one thing you can just
do today easily and simply. Andthat's to use categories for
your tags, give your tags a job.
And all I mean by that not everysystem has categories for their
(18:30):
tags, I just mean name itsomething at the beginning of
the tag that makes sense forwhat it's doing. Right. So if
you're tracking an activity,someone's done, like a link
they've clicked or somethingthey've downloaded, put activity
in the at the front in bracketsbefore you put your tag name.
(18:51):
Because now when you see thatticker, like oh, that's an
activity, someone's take it andit makes sense. You're like, Oh,
I know what the job is for thattag. Right. Another category you
could use I like to use onecalled subscriber and that notes
their preferences on my listright? Like did they do have
consent to email them that'simportant to me? Do they like a
(19:15):
weekly email or a monthly email?
Have they asked for only emailsabout what they've purchased and
not marketing emails? Or if youhave like some programs use
lists as well if you havedifferent things going on, you
can use tags just to like noteall the preferences and that one
(19:35):
is really helpful when you whenyou go to send emails because
you can just you know make surethat you're pulling people that
have said they want your emailit's just a really simple way to
group them all right, becausethey will have there will be
people that don't want yourmarketing emails but you still
have to be able to email aboutyour offer like you know things
they've purchased with you iftheir clients so tagging is a
(19:58):
simple way to do that. Can youthat just means putting that
word at the front, just changedusing it in your naming
structure is all you need to dois give your take the job. And
pick some names like I have, Ithink nine categories that I
teach and use in my tech namingformula. But you can make them
(20:18):
up to just whatever makes sensefor you. Just pick some
categories of of things you needto know, and name them and put
those at the beginning of thetag so that when you're looking
at your tag list, they're allgrouped together.
Erin Geiger (20:31):
I love that it makes it so much Yeah. and
organized. And you know, you canquickly see what it is that you
need to work with right then. So
Unknown (20:39):
yeah, one of my favorite actually, I said that
already, I guess I have lots offavorites. tech nerd over here.
Another one of my favorites is astatus category of tags. So I
just used the status in bracketsbefore I named the tag. And I
love to add those at thebeginning of an automation and
remove them at the end. So Iknow when people are going
(21:00):
through, they're currentlyinside of an automation. So the
beginning of a welcome sequence,I'll add status in welcome
sequence and then remove it atthe end, or in Evergreen funnel
or whatever you're doing.
Because maybe when you send youryour newsletter, you want to not
send everybody who's currentlygetting another, you know, an
automation, right? So it'sreally super easy to to control
(21:23):
that if they have a tag whilethey're in that automation. You
don't have to get you know, youdon't have to go looking for
that information that's right atyour fingertips. So that's one
of my favorites.
Erin Geiger (21:33):
Yeah, yeah, that's just makes it so much more
streamlined. Yeah, we mentioneddata a few minutes ago. So
there's so much you can track. Imean, it's like, I could drive
yourself nuts. So what are justa few data points that you're
like, Listen, if you're going totrack anything, you know, like
track this with your tags, thisis these are the benefits you
(21:55):
get from using tags is the datayou can collect. This is what
really matters, especially whenyou're first starting out.
Unknown (22:00):
Yeah, so you can collect a lot. And what I
recommend when you're firststarting is to collect it even
if you don't know why you needit yet. Because having it when
you do need it later, is sowonderful when you're like oh, I
was I was so smart back then,and I collected this data,
you'll feel so proud. Right? Sojust think through it helps for
(22:24):
me when I'm building automationor sequences to really get in
the shoes of your subscriberyour contact and experience your
automation funnels from theirperspective. And think of them
as just a real human like, whatdo we need to know about this
person to give them good serviceor to get them offers that
matter to them. So some datathat would be good to collect
(22:49):
would be like what emails theyshould be getting, or not
getting. So we talked about thatwith like a category subscriber
category or something that willhelp you know, at a glance, then
you can just see like, you canpull most systems, you can pull
reports and get into the data.
But like, it's so easy just topull the tags and see how many
people have this tag. It's sosimple, right? How many people
(23:10):
have opted out of this salessequence, or how many people are
on my newsletter list or want toget my newsletter, so it's super
easy to collect that. Anothertype of data I always recommend
is actions they take with you.
So clicking through to certainsales pages. Now I don't do that
(23:30):
for every link in every email,because some of that data is not
really relevant. If I'm linkingto someone else's blog post or
something unless I meant doingaffiliate sales for them, I
don't really need to track that.
But in if I'm in a salespromotion right now I track you
know when to know when theyclick links to the sales page,
or the webinar page. Or if theyare clicking through to like the
(23:52):
book with me page to thecalendar, but then you know, and
then I can just easily see thatdata at a glance, also interests
that they have. So sometimes Iwill double tag a link click.
I'll double tag I will add a tagfor with the action they took.
Right but then I also will maybeadd a more general tag thinking
(24:14):
ahead to why I might need thisdata. I might take like if it's
an affiliate sale like let's sayI'm promoting a certain kind of
software friends course. I willtrack you know, click this link
but then I might add another tagthat says interested in topic a
because then when I can pulltags, you know if I'm trying to
(24:34):
figure out I need to read a blogpost or do some social posts
what are people even into thatare in my world? You say oh, a
lot of people are into thistopic, just simply from having
added that on the front end whenyou send emails. So that is like
a more advanced thing when youstart thinking through your
customer journey. But it's superhelpful especially if you have
(24:55):
if you're a multi passionateentrepreneur and you have like
more like various offers thatare not necessarily the same
type of buyer, that's reallyvaluable information for for you
to email them differently whenyou know what they're interested
in, right? Other data where theyare in your funnel or your
automation ecosystem, that'swhat I mentioned with status
(25:16):
tagging. So it's easy for me tosee how many people are aware
and what what people are doing.
Any events that they've signedup for, and attended or know
showed was helpful as well,that's really good data to have.
And, of course, anything they'vepurchased. I mean, that's super
important to know. And it's nicethat they have a tag when they
(25:37):
purchase something so that youknow, maybe you want to email
people who bought this onething, not your whole list,
super easy to just send an emailto people with that tag. And
then if you have any programs, Ilike to use tags to, to control
and to watch the access levelthat they have. Like if you have
any kind of a membership orgroup program. If they have
(25:58):
access, or if they've you know,if they've already cancelled,
it's, it's nice to know theywere a member, but then they've
cancelled you're not going toemail them the same way. You're
not sending them the Zoom linkthis week. So I'm tagging and
you build them in as you go. Ithink I feel like I don't want
to scare any newbies off. Youbuild it as you go. And you do
(26:19):
one thing at a time. If you cantake anything away from our chat
today, just being aware that youcan collect this kind of data
easily using tags and just beingaware next time you're in your
automation or your email system.
And think through like whatwould be really helpful to know
about the people that arereading this email today. You
(26:40):
know, and that and just thattype of thinking is really all
you need to start, you'll startcoming up with strategy that
will help you later if you justthink from that perspective.
Erin Geiger (26:52):
Yeah. And if you're leveraging tags for automation,
right, I am a huge proponent ofautomating automating and
outsourcing What's you can?
Where should people start? Likewhat are your, you know,
recommended ways? Like if you'regoing to use tags for
automating? Where do you thinkthat people should look first?
Unknown (27:17):
Like how they should get started tagging or for help
with tags, you
Erin Geiger (27:21):
know, like, there's so many uses for tags when
you're Automate, you know, whenyou're automating things. And so
just to kind of cut through theclutter, like, what are a couple
of uses? Do you think I mean, wementioned the welcome CCleaner
triggering, right, and so I'mjust curious, your thoughts on
that.
Unknown (27:35):
Probably the first one that I would use, the simplest
one would just be those actiontags, just those link clicks,
okay, it's super easy, you don'treally have to think a lot
through you write an email, andyou're linking to a page where
they can buy something. Mostsystems, when you make a link in
your email, you can add a tagwhen they click that link. So
(27:57):
anyone who clicks it gets a tagthat and you can name it, you
know, action or activity, clickSales page, link name at the
actual sales page, so you knowwhat you're looking for later.
And just just something simplelike that, and now you can
start, you know, your brain willstart thinking through, okay,
now, like, five times today, Ican just go quickly, look how
(28:18):
many people have that tag, rightand see how things are doing.
And then also, the reason whythat's important, because you
can also generally see linkclicks in in your email
platform. But the reason whyit's helpful is later, you know,
if you're doing a promotion, andyou can click, you can see how
many people bought, and how manypeople clicked those links. So
(28:40):
you can sort of see who's takingaction from your emails versus
who maybe came from socialmedia. You just have more to
look through. And and sometimeswhen we're collecting the data
front, we don't always know whyit'll be useful later. But
there's so many times that whereI have collected it on the front
end, and then just be like, Wow,I'm glad I have that
information. I can make betterdecisions or quicker decisions,
(29:03):
as well. But I would just startwith that, because it's super
simple. And like I said, it'sstaring you at the face that
button usually and you'rewondering what to do with it.
That's what I want you to dowith it. I want you to give it a
category so that you know whatthe heck it's for. And then give
it a nice name a nicedescriptive name so you can
follow your breadcrumbs later.
And just start watching activitypeople are taking inside in your
(29:25):
emails. Yeah, just start startsimple with that.
Erin Geiger (29:31):
Yeah, and that way, you know, like who's highly
engaged, and then you can startcurating your messaging and
content toward their interests.
So that's this is so valuableand a lot of our listeners, some
of them are first starting out,some of them are further along
in their entrepreneurialjourney. But besides tags, what,
what tool or what process haveyou come up with that has kind
(29:56):
of made your business is morestreamline are impacted it
positively.
Unknown (30:04):
Well, I mean, I could preach all day about automation
platforms. Because we'veestablished that already, I
would say my next favorite toolthat has made a really big
difference in my life is is aproject management tool like
Trello, my entire brain lives inthere. I like Trello because I'm
very visual, you know, somepeople like Asana or click up or
(30:26):
like various different ones, Idon't think which one matters,
pick the one your brain workswith the best. For me, I love
Trello because it's very visual.
But I use it as a brain dumpingground my entire life. Even my
personal life is in there, likemy checklists for what to pack
to go camping with the kids isin there. And my favorite
feature is just the search. Ican just search my words and
(30:46):
find my brain dumps of things Iwas working on or thinking. It's
just yeah, I'm in thereconstantly. That's probably one
of my favorite tools.
Erin Geiger (30:59):
Yeah, Trello is a great one. And you're right. I
mean, I've used asana and sothey all have their pros and
cons, but whichever one you'regoing to use is the one that you
should. All right. Yeah, forsure. It's like if people asked
like, what kind of workout youknow, should I do and I'm like
the one that you'll do
Unknown (31:16):
100% 100 That's the answer.
Erin Geiger (31:20):
So in all of this, like, what do you is there
anything that you kind ofincorporate into your routine?
It could be daily, it could beweekly, it could just be when
you need it? That kind of keepsyou your your head right your
your attentional your you know,it keeps you grounded. Is there
anything that some peoplemeditate? Some people work out?
Is there anything that youincorporate?
Unknown (31:41):
Absolutely, I feel like entrepreneurship is the biggest
personal development program onthe planet. So much comes up as
you're building a business inyour your mind and your body.
And I found for me, more somaticembodiment type practices really
helped me and my favorite is EFTtapping would be what I do as
(32:05):
needed. And I'm super lucky thatmy biz bestie is an EFT tapping
practitioner and has a programfor entrepreneurs. So she has
like little ones when you'reoverwhelmed or when you need to
focus and they're short little15 minute audios, and they're my
lifeline. Because it's one thingto have mindset practices. And I
(32:27):
do that as well. But you reallyneed sometimes it's in your body
right there. Just likeespecially for me
procrastination, it's it's aform of perfectionism and
procrastination work together alot for me in business. And I
really discovered last year isthere's a fear of visibility in
there as well. And a lot of thatis stored in the body. So just
(32:48):
that, you know, quick 1015minute practice is massive for
me for sure.
Erin Geiger (32:52):
Okay, that's really cool. I don't know too much
about it. Is it something that Imean, I've heard of it, but it's
something that you do,consistently, or just, it's just
a tool that you grab when youneed it,
Unknown (33:03):
whatever you want, whatever you want. It's it's
super easy. It's what does shesay? My friend says, it sounds
Whoo. But it's like we wouldJason like it's a sciency. Also,
there's meridians in the body,you just do some tapping on your
head and face in a certainorder. And I love it because
(33:25):
you're not buying it. There's noemotional bypassing with it. I
find with some mindsetpractices, it feels like I'm
trying to convince myself to bepositive or have convinced
myself but I'm not really buyingit on the inside and like I say
the words but I'm not reallybelieving myself. And EFT
tapping doesn't do that youstart with where you're
truthfully are those negativefeelings and then you work
(33:46):
through them into feelingbetter. But it's it's it's we
would jacent I would say it'sit's I think Laura Belgrade said
that first but it's it'ssomething that's quite sciency
it's effective. If you findsomething you know, a good a
good couple of audios you canuse it's short, and it it makes
(34:06):
me better every day when I needit. For sure.
Erin Geiger (34:09):
Yeah. When I love the fact that it's genuine and
it's like it's goes through yourtruth, right? It's not just like
squashing those negative.
thoughts or emotions. It's likestarting Yeah, where you are.
And so that's that's reallygreat. As you look forward to
the future, what what do you seefor yourself? What do you see
for your business?
Unknown (34:32):
Well, I'm in a state of transition right now actually,
I've spent the last number ofyears I think since 2017 or
2018. working directly withclients and doing a lot of done
for you stuff. And so I'm theperson they bring on when they
just can't, they just can't withthe tech and the automation. And
(34:55):
I love that because because Ican and make great change in
their business but for me I'm inhad a period of transition where
I want to do more teaching togive people the power to do it
for themselves, because thoseclients have to have a certain
level of success to be able toafford to do that. Right. And
there's such a big growth in theonline industry right now. And
I've just noticed this big gapwith the learning and not
(35:17):
implementing. And I just reallywant to be able to reach more
people in and help them getsystems. So they can make more
money without just doing so damnmuch like everybody's doing the
most right now. And I see peopledoing every strategy that every
marketer, you know, is doing,and there's fads and, but
they're not seeing results. AndI think a lot of it, there's a
(35:39):
big gap in the learning and theknowledge about the tools that
you need to use to implement notjust the strategies. So that's
my hope, my hope is to grow moreof a teaching based side of my
business so that I can so that Ican work with more more people.
Erin Geiger (35:58):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's great. You know, it's
more about empowering, you know,people like you can do this on
your own, you don't outsourceit. So yeah, no, I love that.
And teaching one too many isthat a one to one means that
you're impacting, impacting morepeople and helping them grow
their businesses,
Unknown (36:13):
and my family to be to be fair, I mean, I have three
kids, so it impacts me as well.
You can only work with so manyone on one clients. So it's it's
Win Win across the board. Butlike you said about outsourcing
a founder that also we're notgoing to knock out sourcing.
However, there are a few thingsin your business, I feel you
really need to master firstbefore you can successfully
(36:35):
outsource is I've cleaned upsome real messes in some systems
that someone outsource tosomebody because they didn't
know how to use it. I've evenhad, you know, clients who have
paid me a lot of money to buildthem systems, but they had zero
desire to learn how to use them.
And it's not sustainable, if youdon't have, you know, a fair
(36:56):
understanding of how to how touse your system. So I think it's
one of those things in businessthat as the as the owner, you
need to sort of buckle down andlearn to write
Erin Geiger (37:05):
Yeah, you have need some level of knowledge, right?
Because if you're just hiringsomebody you don't know if
they're doing the job that youneed them to be doing
Unknown (37:14):
or not. I think it would be the same as
copywriting. Wouldn't you agree?
100% you need a level ofunderstanding before you can
outsource Well,
Erin Geiger (37:22):
yeah, there's so when I work with clients,
there's foundational informationthat needs to be discussed and
agreed upon. Yeah, can't justYeah, jump in with that without
No. So I mean, you
Unknown (37:32):
could but it wouldn't be good
Erin Geiger (37:34):
to do that. Yeah.
So where where can people findyou online if they want to work
with you or find out moreinformation?
Unknown (37:42):
Yeah, well come over to my website is Cheryl
rhetoric.com. And on my ContactMe page, you can see you can
contact me a bunch of ways I'mon I don't know what's on their
messenger Instagram, there's achat box. We can hang out on
boxer if you want. Nice. I'm allover the place. Actually, you
know what, come find me onInstagram at Cheryl Rarick
(38:04):
marketing, because I'm terribleat Instagram, you'll see there's
nothing on my page. And I needpeople to come like come to me.
And so that I feel the thepositive peer pressure to like
actually show up there and andget over my visibility problems
and posts. Come find me so thatI so that I feel like I have
(38:27):
friends over there.
Erin Geiger (38:29):
Okay, cool. Yeah, well, I'll include all those
links in the show notes. And weI asked this question to
everybody, because my husbandand I are just big music fans.
And so we always want to know ifyou could only listen to one
music artists for the rest ofyour life. Man, who would it be?
Oh,
Unknown (38:48):
what a question.
Erin Geiger (38:50):
Yeah. It's sort of a jerk move. Oh. Oh, it's like
Unknown (38:57):
it's hot. My brain is torn in two. Okay, for the rest
of my life, probably. Probablythe Foo Fighters because that is
like me and my husband weddingsong and we have seen them in
concert. So it comes withnostalgia. It comes with
memories more than just themusic itself. If I can only
(39:18):
listen to one thing the rest ofmy life has to be something that
comes with a lot of really goodmemories.
Erin Geiger (39:21):
Yeah, okay. No, I like that. i It's so funny with
the Foo Fighters. I did notreally listen to that love
nirvana. You know, all that, youknow? Yeah. Yeah, I wasn't a big
fan when firefighters firstformed. But then in the past few
years, I'm like, Okay, I seeyou.
Unknown (39:38):
So I went to a lot of concerts. So it has to do with
us being menial in our youth inour 20s Just doing concerts all
the time. But at the time, mybrain also wants to pick biggie
because that makes me want todance. I do like whenever I'm
doing any web design or salespages that I love what I'm
listening to so I don't have tochoose the memories. I asked him
(40:00):
Here's the memories. Yeah.
Erin Geiger (40:01):
No, I love that.
Cheryl. Thank you so much fortaking the time. I have so
enjoyed our conversation. Yes, Istill have I. It's so great. So
I will put all their links inthe show notes. And yeah,
thanks. Thanks again for joiningus and listeners. We will be
posting this soon and we will beback with an all new episode as
well. So thanks for listening.
(40:25):
Thanks for tuning in to theSmall Business Big mindset
podcast. To keep the fun going.
Check out our Facebook groupstart and scale an online
business For even more freetrainings and resources from
fellow entrepreneurs. If youhaven't already, head on over to
muscle creative.com and clicksubscribe to join our email list
for weekly updates. And ifyou've enjoyed this podcast
episode, check us out on yourfavorite podcast platform to
follow us and give us a review.
(40:47):
As always be authentic, bring aninsane amount of value and keep
crushing it
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