February 28, 2023 • 29 mins
Sami Miles, founder of Catchiest Copy and creator of Automatically Funny AF in Four Weeks, talks all things funny in copywriting.
When working with clients, she found that the funnest time was when they were joking around, when she could bring that humor out of them and onto paper.
A former stand-up comic who has opened for some of the biggest names in the biz, Sami knows exactly how to inject humor into copy in just the right way.
Whether it's punching up copywriting assets, speeches, or presentations, Sami tells us how to bridge the gap for our audience through humor. One of the tips she shares is she has her clients watch the opening jokes of their favorite comics. From there, they workshop everything from signature talks, guest teaching, webinars - even podcasts. All messaging is curated as well - launch emails, welcome sequences...they all go through her process to increase connection through laughter.
Head over here to grab Sami's '10 tips to Grab Your Audience by the Funny Bone'.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Erin Geiger (00:02):
Welcome to the Small Business Big mindset
podcast, where we dive intotactical strategies to grow your
business and make an impact onthis world. A huge part of
success is keeping your mindsetand vision on track. So this is
a major part of our process. Andthis podcast. Let's do this.
Hey, everybody, welcome to theSmall Business Big mindset
(00:28):
podcast this week, we have Sammymiles, founder of Cassius copy,
and creator of automaticallyfunny ATF in four weeks.
Welcome, Sammy to the show. Hi,Erin, thanks
Unknown (00:40):
so much for having me.
Erin Geiger (00:41):
So super excited.
You're one of my favoritepeople, one of my favorite
entrepreneur entrepreneurs thatI have met, and just grateful
that our journeys have crossedin Europe, one of the funniest
people I've ever known. So I'mso happy to have you on here.
And you're here, just Yeah,incredible. So let's start with
you. Of course, do you want totell us a little bit about you
(01:02):
your background and how you gotstarted? Yeah,
Unknown (01:07):
so I was in corporate America for a very long time.
And I had to give presentationsto about 100 people at a time,
like trainings and things likethat. And it made me extremely
nervous. So I decided early onthat I was going to take a
(01:30):
comedy class. So I went to theComedy Store. This is when Sandy
seashore was still alive andteaching. And I got started.
They just like kind of threw youup on stage, and then you just
did three minutes at a time. SoI started doing that. And it
(01:50):
really helps, you know, with thenerves and just like being in
front of people. And so I was inthat corporate job for a very
long time, like eight years orsomething like that. And then
I've always been inclined as awriter. So I was pregnant with
my second daughter and I washaving severe morning sickness.
(02:13):
So I called in sick one day towork, and I still had to show up
on Zoom, and present to fivedifferent VPs and I was
literally muting myself and Bobinto the trash can. And then
like carrying on and continuingto present and I was like, Yeah,
this has got to change. So Idecided that I'm there to take
(02:36):
my writing skills and start myown business and copywriting. So
that was my firstentrepreneurial foi a foray.
Whatever the word is, you thinkI would know this writer. So I
started my copywriting business.
And as fun as it was to docopywriting, I quickly found
(02:58):
that the funnest time for me wasjoking around with my clients
and bringing more of their jokeysides out and you know, putting
that on paper. And then alsolike, what if we added this
little bit into your signaturetalk, little jokes here and
there, and I just decided to runwith that. And so I've been
(03:21):
leading a program where I helpbusiness owners like punch up
their assets, their copywritingassets, and their, their
speeches and presentations. Justto make them funnier, and it's,
it's great. It's so fun.
Erin Geiger (03:36):
So you're a genius for going to a comedy class when
you're like, God, likefrightened, you know, being in
speaking in front of people, Iwould never have thought of
doing that.
Unknown (03:48):
Exposure therapy baby.
Erin Geiger (03:51):
And it's pure genius. I love it. So even even
that, it's just like, Wow,you're so far ahead of all of
us. And then yes, the fact thatyou're helping people kind of
like punch up their staff. It'sso needed, especially post
pandemic because everybody likewe've discovered like, wow,
okay, connection actuallymatters. And talking person to
(04:14):
person actually matters. And soinstead of having this dry
material or content of like,very sterile, like this is what
it is, you know, for you to comein and be like, Oh my gosh, can
we get some personality in here?
That's just incredible. So oh mygosh, so excited about that. So
you introduced me to a phrasethat I had never heard before,
(04:35):
which is bizfluent Sirs, whichI'm like, so in love now. So
talk to us about comedy writingand talk to us about that. You
coined that term. I have notheard it before, but
Unknown (04:49):
tell me I made it up.
Erin Geiger (04:51):
Another genius thing oh my god. So yeah, so
please, please, please tell ushelp us. You know, to figure out
our copy, I love to write to youBut Good Lord, do I need help on
like, making things? Funny, youknow? Because that is not my
strong suit at all. I mean,listen, I'm from New York. So I
can do a one liner sarcasticthing with the best of them. As
(05:13):
far as quality comedy, andthat's so much. So could you
kind of break that down a littlebit for his comedy writing? And,
and also explain to us how youcame up with bizfluent? Sirs?
Because I'm so enamored withthat?
Unknown (05:25):
Well, yeah, no, it just describes like some of the
people that I'm working with,like they have these massive
audiences, and their audiencesthat are teaching other business
owners business. And so doesinfluencers made sense to me,
because they're influencingbusinesses. But yeah, the first
thing, if you want to becomefunnier, is kind of just
(05:46):
stepping into more of your ownpersonality and letting your
humor shine just because, youknow, people get really buttoned
up, especially in like, thecorporate culture, and, like
talking business to business.
And, and they forget that theother person, you know, they
want to have a good time, too.
(06:11):
But yeah, so the first place tostart, I think, is to understand
why you want to be funny. So togive you a little bit of
background about how comedyworks, historically, laughter
developed in humans, beforespeech was ever a thing for
communication purposes, likebabies can laugh before they can
(06:31):
talk. And it shows the otherperson that you wish to connect
with them. So like, I have a 10month old and she can't talk
yet. But what she can do is shecan laugh, and we like share
little moments where we'll likelaugh at each other. And she
does that with her like two anda half year old sister too. And
so if you can make somebodylaugh in your audience, they're
(06:52):
unconsciously identifying assomebody who wants to connect
with you. Mm hmm.
Erin Geiger (06:57):
Yeah, I never even thought about that. You're
right. Babies can laugh beforethey can really communicate, you
know, through word. Interesting.
Unknown (07:05):
Yeah. So it's like, kind of taps into like that
lizard part of your brain whereyou're like, Okay, I feel safe.
And it also creates so much moreengagement. Because when you use
jokes, they're like, littleproblems to solve. Like, you
have to use a lot of your brainto like, put it together to
understand the intention. Andsometimes there's like wordplay
involved. Yeah, complexprocessing. So that'll drag
(07:30):
people in a little bit more.
There's also other socialaspects to laughter so if
you're, let's say, giving a TEDtalk, and you throw in a little
joke at the beginning, everybodyelse who like wasn't paying
attention, once they hear thelaughter, they're gonna want to,
you know, tune in a little moreso that they don't miss the next
joke.
Erin Geiger (07:51):
And it kind of like it could set you at ease as a
speaker, but then I think itcould set your audience at ease,
too, right? Instead of beinglike, Alright, here I am for
this training, or con, you know,whatever, you know, this
conference thing that my work ismaking me go to, you know, like,
who's going to speak to me now,you know? And so I think it kind
of makes everyone just feellike, oh, okay, we can do this.
Unknown (08:12):
We're in this creates a little pattern interrupt. And
actually, when you get peoplelaughing, the feel good
hormones, I don't rememberexactly like, what the science
is behind it. But it will therehave been studies that show that
it will help people to work fortwice as long on a difficult
task if they've been exposed tohumorous stimuli right before?
Erin Geiger (08:34):
That's really good to know. Actually, does that
work with kids? Make the laughof it out? Sure. That's awesome.
So okay, so the first step islike, Okay, why do you want to
be funny? You know, becausethere's probably a time and a
place for it, you know, or, youknow, I'm sure, maybe you're of
the opinion that it's like,well, most things could use a
(08:55):
little spark of humor. And thenknow your audience, right? I
mean, you got to figure outlike, what kind of comedy you
can actually inject, you know,like, how do people kind of
figure that out? Like, where doyou know, the line to stay?
Unknown (09:07):
Yeah, I think a lot of people tend to pull back more
than they do, like, let it go.
So I think if you're eventhinking about that question,
like, where is it appropriate? Ithink the answer is just self
trust, like, take a step backand say, Why am I afraid to use
it here? And then you can like,figure out if, if it's justified
(09:28):
or not, I actually I was on acall, or I was about to give a
talk. This was a couple of weeksago, and there was one person
where I was like, I don't knowif they'll be comfortable with
this kind of humor, but then Itook a step back and I thought,
if this joke alienates thisperson, then I don't even think
(09:50):
I would want to work with themanyway. And that is often the
case. I'd say more often thannot there. There are some times
where you might want to, if itreally feels like it might be
over the line, you might want toask somebody else, if you just
ask a friend, is this over theline? And, you know, they're of
(10:10):
the opinion that it's notdepending on how much you trust
them, then you have your answer.
Erin Geiger (10:19):
And so how do you how do you get started working
with somebody, you know, so whatare what are their? Let's say,
like, No, they've never kind oftried to inject, you know,
comedy or personality into theirwork before? What are some of
the first few steps you thinkthat they should take?
Unknown (10:34):
I think that they should, first of all, start
collecting their stories, likeany stories that they have seen
what they find funny about them,just start watching comedy, tap
into what they like, and go fromthere. Like, the easiest way is
to kind of craft a joke aroundyour topic, using a formula from
(10:57):
somebody whose material you dolike, and then I think the
easiest thing to do is to craftone opening joke for your talk
or more, if you're just doing,like copywriting, it would be
one joke in your welcomesequence. Just to start there.
(11:18):
And yeah, just by looking atjokes that you found funny in
the past.
Erin Geiger (11:24):
Okay, cool. And is it? Do you typically relate it
to like, a whole story, youknow, kind of, like, kind of
draw the audience and whetherit's written word or audio? Do
you kind of like, attach thejoke to kind of like a story? Or
do you it's kind of like, nowit's easier just to do a one
liner? You know, like, how, cuz,you know, everyone likes
different comedians, right? It'slike, what do you suggest?
Unknown (11:46):
Yeah, that's a great question, I would say the
easiest way is to either bridgethe gap for your audience
between something that's eitheruniversal to them to the topic
at hand, or if you have like anintro story, and there are some
funny details in that. Thatworks just as well. But what I
like to do with my clients is tohave them watch the opening
(12:09):
jokes of their favorite comics.
And see how they bridge that gapfrom like, well, here we are, to
their topic. So often, it'stalking about something like the
speaker before said, and justfinding finding an ounce of
humor in that.
Erin Geiger (12:31):
And do you help if they're speaking publicly? Do
you sort of help them engagewith the audience as well? Like,
kind of make it more of a, a twoway street? Do you know cuz
then, some comics will, will dothat, right? They'll like see
someone on the audience or youknow, that sort of thing? Or do
you go you're like, that's notreally, we don't do that. Yeah.
(12:51):
So
Unknown (12:51):
for me personally, like I'm more of a writer type. So I
like to stick to my script. Butin my program, I do have like a
guest comic come in to teach theart of dealing with like haters
and hecklers. Because no thanks.
For me. I'm just like, all I dois like, stick, like go back to
the script. If I if somebody'slike, throwing me a fastball.
Erin Geiger (13:15):
And then do you use, like, kind of visuals?
Like, do you? Are you like ameme person? Like, do you to
kind of teach people to, youknow, incorporate those whether
or not it's like a presentationor like an email that they're
writing?
Unknown (13:29):
I definitely see the value in those I have to be
reminded to use them personally.
But I think that is an easy waythat's low hanging fruit for a
lot of people to inject humor islike, find a meme that you find
funny. Put it in there, find away to shoehorn it in
Erin Geiger (13:47):
it kind of like livens it up to you because
like, I think after, you know, afew minutes of talking about one
topic, especially if you'resitting there to speak, watching
somebody speak at a conference,you know, your mind can start to
drift. So injecting some humorthroughout. It seems helpful,
too. And so let's talk about it.
You have a chorus of what is ita chorus that automatically
(14:09):
funny AF in four weeks? Or is itYes.
Unknown (14:13):
It's a core slash workshopping. Big.
Erin Geiger (14:17):
Okay, that makes Yeah, that would make sense that
we have a workshop component. Soautomatically funny AF in four
weeks love the title. Can youshare a little bit about that
and maybe give the listeners alittle sneak peek and you know,
a few things that maybe youteach in that course. And then
of course, we'll have the linkon the show notes and everything
too.
Unknown (14:37):
Yeah. Let me pull up something about that. Just a
second. Yeah, no, no.
Erin Geiger (14:45):
And I yeah, I love it automatically. Funny AF. I'm
like, Oh, Dan, we all need todefeat and then within four
weeks, I'm like, Yes, please.
Sign me up. That's awesome. Howmany times people will try to
force it to, you know, they'lltry to force the funny does not
work. So I'm so grateful thatyou have this. This court. Yes.
Unknown (15:08):
Yeah. I'm a huge proponent of yeah, just drawing
on what naturally would come outof your mouth anyway. And then
just yeah, just lowering theinhibitions just slightly. Yeah.
So yeah, some of the things thatI talk about is like your
individual humor, DNA, and howyou, you know, curate the
inspiration that will actuallymake you funnier, because it is
(15:32):
kind of a state of play that youwant to be in in order to bring
out the funniest stuff. And thenwe go over all of the aspects,
and kind of workshop themtogether everything from like
signature talks, guest teaching,sales, webinars, master classes,
and podcasting, and then thecopywriting aspects as well. So
(15:54):
like injecting humor intowelcome sequences, sales page,
website, home in about page, andlaunch emails, and then also
like reels and social media, andhow to kind of make it
sustainable. So you don't feellike you're always like trying
to come up with new material,like figuring out what the
(16:15):
lowest hanging fruit is forstuff that you're already
talking about. And yeah, how tojust tweak it to make it funny.
Yeah. Now that's, like I said,What did you say?
Erin Geiger (16:25):
I'm just saying that super comprehensive.
Unknown (16:28):
Yeah, and then, like I was saying earlier, dealing with
haters and hecklers. And thenjust, I have a couple of comics
that I'm bringing into workshopwith my people. And yeah, one of
them has been on like StephenColbert, and like, all the late
night talk shows and everything.
And it's super fun.
Erin Geiger (16:48):
Yeah, no, that's awesome. Yeah, because like,
social media is like a wholeother thing, right? And so it
sounds like maybe, do you havesort of best practices for
social media or making a realyou know, that you want to share
just general best practices oncelike not giving away your secret
sauce from your course. But justa few things that you're like,
(17:09):
if you choose do one thing, whenyou're gonna be on social media,
please do this. Or don't dothis.
Unknown (17:16):
I would say create content without a filter. And
then when you go back and edit,you can, you know, you can get
feedback on what isn't isn'tgonna lie with your audience.
But I would say err on the sideof just letting it all hang out.
(17:36):
Before you edit, because, as youknow, as a copywriter, you just
kind of need to get everythingout to get the gold nuggets that
you can then edit down to likeusable content. So from that
perspective, one tool that Ireally like using is
750 words.com. To really likeword vomit every single day. So
(18:03):
for people who are less writers,I guess you can, you could use
just like a video, or you know,whatever, however you video on
your phone and just talk at itfor just like, you know, five
minutes a day. And you'd besurprised, like just talking
about stuff that happened in thelast day, you'd be surprised
about how much of that isactually usable content? Mm hmm.
Erin Geiger (18:25):
Yeah, I kind of take two in that muscle. Yeah,
it's similar. I tell people,like, look at the photos on your
phone. You know, like, that'sgoing to spark a memory of like,
oh, yeah, when this happenedlast weekend, this happened a
few weeks ago, like they'rethere, you know, so it's similar
for this as well. Yeah, do you?
Do you kind of have tips to helppeople like you went to a comedy
(18:46):
class, and maybe going to you isthe equivalent but like to kind
of get people? I mean, you'vegot to have a lot of nervous,
maybe people that are anxiouscoming to you, you know, that
are just like I had a while, youknow, how do you kind of get
them to see that they can befunny in that and that it's okay
to kind of inject theirpersonality, you know, is there
(19:08):
kind of things you get to thatyou make them like less anxious
and more confident?
Unknown (19:14):
Yeah, well, I do. I do teach a little bit of breath
work just to like calm theanxiety. But I do think that
getting that like playfulnature, like turned on has a lot
to do with like, who's aroundyou and the energy of the room.
And that's kind of what myprogram provides. It's a lot of
(19:34):
people just playing and havingfun and just, you know, seeing
what works throwing spaghetti atthe wall and encouraging each
other telling each other whatthey thought was funny about it.
Like there's no negativity wherewe don't say like, You should
have said this or whatever
Erin Geiger (19:53):
did you imagine?
Before like, Oh, my God, I can'tbelieve you just said that. Like
what I thought we weresupported. Yeah, that'd be
hilarious. Yeah. It's like, Ihope so. Yeah, no, that's
awesome. And do you? Do you kindof see a trend like, with people
in different industries? Are youkind of like, okay, well, this
(20:14):
person is in this kind ofbusiness. So they should go down
this avenue or this person's inthis or do you? Are you like,
No, it doesn't really matter.
You're the industry, there's,this is just how it is.
Unknown (20:26):
It's, I would say it's less industry dependent, and
it's more person to person, Iwould say the people that I work
with, they're already kind offunny. They just want to know,
what they can inject into theirbusiness. And I'd say most
people are funny, if you don'thave a funny bone in your body.
And like, it just, it just feelslike the opposite of your
(20:49):
nature. Maybe that's just you,but you can lean into that. And
the way to make it funny, Iwould say would be acknowledging
that about yourself, that can befunny. But I don't tend to work
with those people as much. Ijust noticed that all of my
clients are funny. So I don'tknow. Maybe it's just because
(21:10):
everybody's funny. I don't know.
Erin Geiger (21:12):
Yeah. And that actually is interesting. So who
Who do you work with the mostlike, who would you say is
mostly like you're the perfectideal clientele.
Unknown (21:22):
Perfect, ideal clientele would be like,
coaches, that are kind of doinga lot of teaching. Because one
thing that I've noticed is thathumor really helps with getting
messages across. And it helpspeople absorb what it is without
(21:44):
making it personal or like, itfeels things feel less
confrontational. And so thatlike teaching element is kind of
a through line. Because teacherssee the value of using humor to
create engagement, and thingslike that.
Erin Geiger (22:00):
Yeah. Okay, now, I could see that. And so I'm
curious, like, there's ourlisteners kind of range from
like seasoned entrepreneur tothose who are just starting out
and everything in between. So,is there something like you went
out on your own? You know, it's,I'm sure it was all ponies and
rainbows. So it's like, is therelike a key learning or like an
(22:25):
insight that you could share forothers wanting to go out on
their own kind of like, starttheir their own business? Maybe
it's like something that you'relike, Oh, that's a lesson I
learned the hard way.
Unknown (22:38):
Well, I have noticed.
So for me, personally, Iwouldn't necessarily recommend
this path for everybody. ButI've spent a lot of time trying
to reflect more on am I enjoyingwhat I'm doing, rather than Am I
making the most money I could bemaking because I do see a lot of
(23:00):
people that don't seem like a,you know, in our like
entrepreneurial sphere, peoplethat are chasing the money that
don't seem as happy. And it'skind of a path for burnout. And
actually, I was talking to oneof my clients the other day who
she said she would go through aburnout cycle every 18 months,
(23:20):
she would just get completelyburnt out. And she had to take a
step back, she took a full sixmonths off, because she had been
making the money so she couldafford to take six months off.
And during that time, shedecided that she was going to
fire all of her clients, not allof them, but only work with the
(23:41):
ones where she felt like she canfully be herself rather than be
like completely buttoned up. Andbecause of that she's like,
like, purposefully injecting herhumor into her business so that
she doesn't burn out again, andshe's loving her day to day a
(24:04):
lot more. And so yeah, and I'vehad like a similar trajectory.
As far as you know, I did leavea job because I was continually
getting burnt out. And I I amwilling to take the time that it
takes to find my path in a waythat, you know, lights me up and
makes me want to continue doingwhat I'm doing even if it gets
(24:26):
like hard.
Erin Geiger (24:29):
Yeah, no, I think that's something that a lot of
entrepreneurs go through, myselfincluded, you know, when I was
going out on my own, I was like,Well, I have skills and all
these different areas. So I willjust do them all, you know, and
it's like, what, no, don't dothat. And so it's like, you just
get burned out and you're like,just because I can do something
doesn't mean I should do that.
It really is just like honing inon like, yeah, what lights you
(24:52):
up, that's a perfect way to putit and I think it's also very
easy for people to I call it thebillionaire syndrome, where
you're just listening to all thebillionaires talk to you about,
like, how they run theirbusinesses and what they're
doing. And you're like, Well, itworked for them, it must work
for me. And then you findyourself doing a kajillion
different things I need to agroup and I need a course. And I
(25:13):
need a membership. And I needthis, you know, and it's just
like, any of all the things andyou're like, why am I miserable?
You know? And it's like, becauseyou're not checking in with you,
you know, and like, figuring outwhat you want to do. And like
you said, you're chasing themoney. So that's, that's
something that Yeah, we all needto remember for sure. So I'm
super curious. Like, wherebecause you're the only one that
(25:35):
I know, that really focuses onhelping people inject the funny
and you know, that sort of sideof their personality into what,
what they do whether or notbecause you probably helped both
whether or not they'reentrepreneurs, or they're
working with a with a company,because everybody needs this
help. Yeah, how do you likewhat, what do you see moving
(25:59):
forward and your business? Like,what are your goals and visions
as you build it up?
Unknown (26:09):
It's a good question.
But to be honest, I am not veryfocused on what my goals are.
Because I'm just like, in theday to day, I'm enjoying the
work that I'm doing now. So I'mjust hoping that it just kind of
snowballs and, you know, takeson a life of its own, which it's
been doing so far. And just likekind of following what is
(26:32):
enjoyable. Yeah.
Erin Geiger (26:36):
So you're very intentional on the present.
Essential? Yes, yeah. Now,that's great. Because there's
something to be said for that,too. You know, because a lot of
us are, like always thinkingabout the next thing. And it's
like, Well, why don't we giveattention to the current thing
that we're building right now?
So no, I totally get that. Wherecan people find you online, if
they want to connect, get someof your, your wisdom and
(26:57):
expertise and maybe work withyou.
Unknown (27:02):
So I have a lead magnet, that is 10 tips to grab
your audience by the funny bone.
And if you grab that, you'llsign up, it'll sign you up for
my email list, which is how Icommunicate mostly with my
audience. And I can send youthat link, or do you want me to
say it?
Erin Geiger (27:22):
Yeah, either way, you can say it, and then we'll
put it in the show notes. Forsure. Yeah, grab your
Unknown (27:27):
items, by the way, but it's at high ticket humor.com
forward slash bone.
Erin Geiger (27:32):
Nice. And it's high ticket humor. Is that your
website that people should go dofor other things do or just for
that one
Unknown (27:38):
piece? Just for that one?
Erin Geiger (27:41):
Got it? No, that's awesome. Okay, cool. So we'll
add that. And then we always askthis question at the end. My
husband and I, he helps meproduce this show. And we're
just big music heads. And so wealways want to know, if you
could only listen to one musicartists for the rest of your
life. Who would it be?
Beloved's? Wow, you're like onit. People are usually like,
(28:02):
that's a jerk question. I don'tknow. Bill Evans. Okay. I don't
know that. I know. Bill Evans.
Well, kind of he's a jazzpianist. Oh, my God, my
husband's probably like, how doyou not know Bill Evans? Like he
loves Yeah. He's like, slip byso embarrassed right now when
he, when he's gonna be like,mixing this later. He's gonna be
like, Oh, my God, like, really?
I love that. But apparently, Ididn't know what that means. Oh,
(28:25):
that's so awesome. So onSpotify, we have a playlist and
it's like, the our smallbusiness mindset entrepreneur
playlist. And so we mixeverybody's answers together and
a playlist so you can kind oflike, maybe get some inspiration
from fellow entrepreneurs andwhat they like to listen to as
well. So we'll add him on that.
(28:45):
That'd be super fun. Sammy,thank you so much for taking the
time today. This has been suchan awesome conversation. Like I
said, I've never talked toanybody. And we're almost 100
episodes on this show about thistopic. So super interesting. So
I really appreciate it.
Unknown (29:03):
Yeah, thank you so much. This has been fun.
Erin Geiger (29:07):
Thanks for tuning in to the Small Business Big
mindset podcast. To keep the fungoing. Check out our Facebook
groups start and scale an onlinebusiness For even more free
trainings and resources fromfellow entrepreneurs. If you
haven't already, head on over tomuscle creative.com and click
subscribe to join our email listfor weekly updates. And if
you've enjoyed this podcastepisode, check us out on your
favorite podcast platform tofollow us and give us a review.
(29:29):
As always be authentic. Bring aninsane amount of value and keep
crushing it
Welcome to the Small Business Big mindset
podcast, where we dive intotactical strategies to grow your
business and make an impact onthis world. A huge part of
success is keeping your mindsetand vision on track. So this is
a major part of our process. Andthis podcast. Let's do this.
Hey, everybody, welcome to theSmall Business Big mindset
(00:28):
podcast this week, we have Sammymiles, founder of Cassius copy,
and creator of automaticallyfunny ATF in four weeks.
Welcome, Sammy to the show. Hi,Erin, thanks
Unknown (00:40):
so much for having me.
Erin Geiger (00:41):
So super excited.
You're one of my favoritepeople, one of my favorite
entrepreneur entrepreneurs thatI have met, and just grateful
that our journeys have crossedin Europe, one of the funniest
people I've ever known. So I'mso happy to have you on here.
And you're here, just Yeah,incredible. So let's start with
you. Of course, do you want totell us a little bit about you
(01:02):
your background and how you gotstarted? Yeah,
Unknown (01:07):
so I was in corporate America for a very long time.
And I had to give presentationsto about 100 people at a time,
like trainings and things likethat. And it made me extremely
nervous. So I decided early onthat I was going to take a
(01:30):
comedy class. So I went to theComedy Store. This is when Sandy
seashore was still alive andteaching. And I got started.
They just like kind of threw youup on stage, and then you just
did three minutes at a time. SoI started doing that. And it
(01:50):
really helps, you know, with thenerves and just like being in
front of people. And so I was inthat corporate job for a very
long time, like eight years orsomething like that. And then
I've always been inclined as awriter. So I was pregnant with
my second daughter and I washaving severe morning sickness.
(02:13):
So I called in sick one day towork, and I still had to show up
on Zoom, and present to fivedifferent VPs and I was
literally muting myself and Bobinto the trash can. And then
like carrying on and continuingto present and I was like, Yeah,
this has got to change. So Idecided that I'm there to take
(02:36):
my writing skills and start myown business and copywriting. So
that was my firstentrepreneurial foi a foray.
Whatever the word is, you thinkI would know this writer. So I
started my copywriting business.
And as fun as it was to docopywriting, I quickly found
(02:58):
that the funnest time for me wasjoking around with my clients
and bringing more of their jokeysides out and you know, putting
that on paper. And then alsolike, what if we added this
little bit into your signaturetalk, little jokes here and
there, and I just decided to runwith that. And so I've been
(03:21):
leading a program where I helpbusiness owners like punch up
their assets, their copywritingassets, and their, their
speeches and presentations. Justto make them funnier, and it's,
it's great. It's so fun.
Erin Geiger (03:36):
So you're a genius for going to a comedy class when
you're like, God, likefrightened, you know, being in
speaking in front of people, Iwould never have thought of
doing that.
Unknown (03:48):
Exposure therapy baby.
Erin Geiger (03:51):
And it's pure genius. I love it. So even even
that, it's just like, Wow,you're so far ahead of all of
us. And then yes, the fact thatyou're helping people kind of
like punch up their staff. It'sso needed, especially post
pandemic because everybody likewe've discovered like, wow,
okay, connection actuallymatters. And talking person to
(04:14):
person actually matters. And soinstead of having this dry
material or content of like,very sterile, like this is what
it is, you know, for you to comein and be like, Oh my gosh, can
we get some personality in here?
That's just incredible. So oh mygosh, so excited about that. So
you introduced me to a phrasethat I had never heard before,
(04:35):
which is bizfluent Sirs, whichI'm like, so in love now. So
talk to us about comedy writingand talk to us about that. You
coined that term. I have notheard it before, but
Unknown (04:49):
tell me I made it up.
Erin Geiger (04:51):
Another genius thing oh my god. So yeah, so
please, please, please tell ushelp us. You know, to figure out
our copy, I love to write to youBut Good Lord, do I need help on
like, making things? Funny, youknow? Because that is not my
strong suit at all. I mean,listen, I'm from New York. So I
can do a one liner sarcasticthing with the best of them. As
(05:13):
far as quality comedy, andthat's so much. So could you
kind of break that down a littlebit for his comedy writing? And,
and also explain to us how youcame up with bizfluent? Sirs?
Because I'm so enamored withthat?
Unknown (05:25):
Well, yeah, no, it just describes like some of the
people that I'm working with,like they have these massive
audiences, and their audiencesthat are teaching other business
owners business. And so doesinfluencers made sense to me,
because they're influencingbusinesses. But yeah, the first
thing, if you want to becomefunnier, is kind of just
(05:46):
stepping into more of your ownpersonality and letting your
humor shine just because, youknow, people get really buttoned
up, especially in like, thecorporate culture, and, like
talking business to business.
And, and they forget that theother person, you know, they
want to have a good time, too.
(06:11):
But yeah, so the first place tostart, I think, is to understand
why you want to be funny. So togive you a little bit of
background about how comedyworks, historically, laughter
developed in humans, beforespeech was ever a thing for
communication purposes, likebabies can laugh before they can
(06:31):
talk. And it shows the otherperson that you wish to connect
with them. So like, I have a 10month old and she can't talk
yet. But what she can do is shecan laugh, and we like share
little moments where we'll likelaugh at each other. And she
does that with her like two anda half year old sister too. And
so if you can make somebodylaugh in your audience, they're
(06:52):
unconsciously identifying assomebody who wants to connect
with you. Mm hmm.
Erin Geiger (06:57):
Yeah, I never even thought about that. You're
right. Babies can laugh beforethey can really communicate, you
know, through word. Interesting.
Unknown (07:05):
Yeah. So it's like, kind of taps into like that
lizard part of your brain whereyou're like, Okay, I feel safe.
And it also creates so much moreengagement. Because when you use
jokes, they're like, littleproblems to solve. Like, you
have to use a lot of your brainto like, put it together to
understand the intention. Andsometimes there's like wordplay
involved. Yeah, complexprocessing. So that'll drag
(07:30):
people in a little bit more.
There's also other socialaspects to laughter so if
you're, let's say, giving a TEDtalk, and you throw in a little
joke at the beginning, everybodyelse who like wasn't paying
attention, once they hear thelaughter, they're gonna want to,
you know, tune in a little moreso that they don't miss the next
joke.
Erin Geiger (07:51):
And it kind of like it could set you at ease as a
speaker, but then I think itcould set your audience at ease,
too, right? Instead of beinglike, Alright, here I am for
this training, or con, you know,whatever, you know, this
conference thing that my work ismaking me go to, you know, like,
who's going to speak to me now,you know? And so I think it kind
of makes everyone just feellike, oh, okay, we can do this.
Unknown (08:12):
We're in this creates a little pattern interrupt. And
actually, when you get peoplelaughing, the feel good
hormones, I don't rememberexactly like, what the science
is behind it. But it will therehave been studies that show that
it will help people to work fortwice as long on a difficult
task if they've been exposed tohumorous stimuli right before?
Erin Geiger (08:34):
That's really good to know. Actually, does that
work with kids? Make the laughof it out? Sure. That's awesome.
So okay, so the first step islike, Okay, why do you want to
be funny? You know, becausethere's probably a time and a
place for it, you know, or, youknow, I'm sure, maybe you're of
the opinion that it's like,well, most things could use a
(08:55):
little spark of humor. And thenknow your audience, right? I
mean, you got to figure outlike, what kind of comedy you
can actually inject, you know,like, how do people kind of
figure that out? Like, where doyou know, the line to stay?
Unknown (09:07):
Yeah, I think a lot of people tend to pull back more
than they do, like, let it go.
So I think if you're eventhinking about that question,
like, where is it appropriate? Ithink the answer is just self
trust, like, take a step backand say, Why am I afraid to use
it here? And then you can like,figure out if, if it's justified
(09:28):
or not, I actually I was on acall, or I was about to give a
talk. This was a couple of weeksago, and there was one person
where I was like, I don't knowif they'll be comfortable with
this kind of humor, but then Itook a step back and I thought,
if this joke alienates thisperson, then I don't even think
(09:50):
I would want to work with themanyway. And that is often the
case. I'd say more often thannot there. There are some times
where you might want to, if itreally feels like it might be
over the line, you might want toask somebody else, if you just
ask a friend, is this over theline? And, you know, they're of
(10:10):
the opinion that it's notdepending on how much you trust
them, then you have your answer.
Erin Geiger (10:19):
And so how do you how do you get started working
with somebody, you know, so whatare what are their? Let's say,
like, No, they've never kind oftried to inject, you know,
comedy or personality into theirwork before? What are some of
the first few steps you thinkthat they should take?
Unknown (10:34):
I think that they should, first of all, start
collecting their stories, likeany stories that they have seen
what they find funny about them,just start watching comedy, tap
into what they like, and go fromthere. Like, the easiest way is
to kind of craft a joke aroundyour topic, using a formula from
(10:57):
somebody whose material you dolike, and then I think the
easiest thing to do is to craftone opening joke for your talk
or more, if you're just doing,like copywriting, it would be
one joke in your welcomesequence. Just to start there.
(11:18):
And yeah, just by looking atjokes that you found funny in
the past.
Erin Geiger (11:24):
Okay, cool. And is it? Do you typically relate it
to like, a whole story, youknow, kind of, like, kind of
draw the audience and whetherit's written word or audio? Do
you kind of like, attach thejoke to kind of like a story? Or
do you it's kind of like, nowit's easier just to do a one
liner? You know, like, how, cuz,you know, everyone likes
different comedians, right? It'slike, what do you suggest?
Unknown (11:46):
Yeah, that's a great question, I would say the
easiest way is to either bridgethe gap for your audience
between something that's eitheruniversal to them to the topic
at hand, or if you have like anintro story, and there are some
funny details in that. Thatworks just as well. But what I
like to do with my clients is tohave them watch the opening
(12:09):
jokes of their favorite comics.
And see how they bridge that gapfrom like, well, here we are, to
their topic. So often, it'stalking about something like the
speaker before said, and justfinding finding an ounce of
humor in that.
Erin Geiger (12:31):
And do you help if they're speaking publicly? Do
you sort of help them engagewith the audience as well? Like,
kind of make it more of a, a twoway street? Do you know cuz
then, some comics will, will dothat, right? They'll like see
someone on the audience or youknow, that sort of thing? Or do
you go you're like, that's notreally, we don't do that. Yeah.
(12:51):
So
Unknown (12:51):
for me personally, like I'm more of a writer type. So I
like to stick to my script. Butin my program, I do have like a
guest comic come in to teach theart of dealing with like haters
and hecklers. Because no thanks.
For me. I'm just like, all I dois like, stick, like go back to
the script. If I if somebody'slike, throwing me a fastball.
Erin Geiger (13:15):
And then do you use, like, kind of visuals?
Like, do you? Are you like ameme person? Like, do you to
kind of teach people to, youknow, incorporate those whether
or not it's like a presentationor like an email that they're
writing?
Unknown (13:29):
I definitely see the value in those I have to be
reminded to use them personally.
But I think that is an easy waythat's low hanging fruit for a
lot of people to inject humor islike, find a meme that you find
funny. Put it in there, find away to shoehorn it in
Erin Geiger (13:47):
it kind of like livens it up to you because
like, I think after, you know, afew minutes of talking about one
topic, especially if you'resitting there to speak, watching
somebody speak at a conference,you know, your mind can start to
drift. So injecting some humorthroughout. It seems helpful,
too. And so let's talk about it.
You have a chorus of what is ita chorus that automatically
(14:09):
funny AF in four weeks? Or is itYes.
Unknown (14:13):
It's a core slash workshopping. Big.
Erin Geiger (14:17):
Okay, that makes Yeah, that would make sense that
we have a workshop component. Soautomatically funny AF in four
weeks love the title. Can youshare a little bit about that
and maybe give the listeners alittle sneak peek and you know,
a few things that maybe youteach in that course. And then
of course, we'll have the linkon the show notes and everything
too.
Unknown (14:37):
Yeah. Let me pull up something about that. Just a
second. Yeah, no, no.
Erin Geiger (14:45):
And I yeah, I love it automatically. Funny AF. I'm
like, Oh, Dan, we all need todefeat and then within four
weeks, I'm like, Yes, please.
Sign me up. That's awesome. Howmany times people will try to
force it to, you know, they'lltry to force the funny does not
work. So I'm so grateful thatyou have this. This court. Yes.
Unknown (15:08):
Yeah. I'm a huge proponent of yeah, just drawing
on what naturally would come outof your mouth anyway. And then
just yeah, just lowering theinhibitions just slightly. Yeah.
So yeah, some of the things thatI talk about is like your
individual humor, DNA, and howyou, you know, curate the
inspiration that will actuallymake you funnier, because it is
(15:32):
kind of a state of play that youwant to be in in order to bring
out the funniest stuff. And thenwe go over all of the aspects,
and kind of workshop themtogether everything from like
signature talks, guest teaching,sales, webinars, master classes,
and podcasting, and then thecopywriting aspects as well. So
(15:54):
like injecting humor intowelcome sequences, sales page,
website, home in about page, andlaunch emails, and then also
like reels and social media, andhow to kind of make it
sustainable. So you don't feellike you're always like trying
to come up with new material,like figuring out what the
(16:15):
lowest hanging fruit is forstuff that you're already
talking about. And yeah, how tojust tweak it to make it funny.
Yeah. Now that's, like I said,What did you say?
Erin Geiger (16:25):
I'm just saying that super comprehensive.
Unknown (16:28):
Yeah, and then, like I was saying earlier, dealing with
haters and hecklers. And thenjust, I have a couple of comics
that I'm bringing into workshopwith my people. And yeah, one of
them has been on like StephenColbert, and like, all the late
night talk shows and everything.
And it's super fun.
Erin Geiger (16:48):
Yeah, no, that's awesome. Yeah, because like,
social media is like a wholeother thing, right? And so it
sounds like maybe, do you havesort of best practices for
social media or making a realyou know, that you want to share
just general best practices oncelike not giving away your secret
sauce from your course. But justa few things that you're like,
(17:09):
if you choose do one thing, whenyou're gonna be on social media,
please do this. Or don't dothis.
Unknown (17:16):
I would say create content without a filter. And
then when you go back and edit,you can, you know, you can get
feedback on what isn't isn'tgonna lie with your audience.
But I would say err on the sideof just letting it all hang out.
(17:36):
Before you edit, because, as youknow, as a copywriter, you just
kind of need to get everythingout to get the gold nuggets that
you can then edit down to likeusable content. So from that
perspective, one tool that Ireally like using is
750 words.com. To really likeword vomit every single day. So
(18:03):
for people who are less writers,I guess you can, you could use
just like a video, or you know,whatever, however you video on
your phone and just talk at itfor just like, you know, five
minutes a day. And you'd besurprised, like just talking
about stuff that happened in thelast day, you'd be surprised
about how much of that isactually usable content? Mm hmm.
Erin Geiger (18:25):
Yeah, I kind of take two in that muscle. Yeah,
it's similar. I tell people,like, look at the photos on your
phone. You know, like, that'sgoing to spark a memory of like,
oh, yeah, when this happenedlast weekend, this happened a
few weeks ago, like they'rethere, you know, so it's similar
for this as well. Yeah, do you?
Do you kind of have tips to helppeople like you went to a comedy
(18:46):
class, and maybe going to you isthe equivalent but like to kind
of get people? I mean, you'vegot to have a lot of nervous,
maybe people that are anxiouscoming to you, you know, that
are just like I had a while, youknow, how do you kind of get
them to see that they can befunny in that and that it's okay
to kind of inject theirpersonality, you know, is there
(19:08):
kind of things you get to thatyou make them like less anxious
and more confident?
Unknown (19:14):
Yeah, well, I do. I do teach a little bit of breath
work just to like calm theanxiety. But I do think that
getting that like playfulnature, like turned on has a lot
to do with like, who's aroundyou and the energy of the room.
And that's kind of what myprogram provides. It's a lot of
(19:34):
people just playing and havingfun and just, you know, seeing
what works throwing spaghetti atthe wall and encouraging each
other telling each other whatthey thought was funny about it.
Like there's no negativity wherewe don't say like, You should
have said this or whatever
Erin Geiger (19:53):
did you imagine?
Before like, Oh, my God, I can'tbelieve you just said that. Like
what I thought we weresupported. Yeah, that'd be
hilarious. Yeah. It's like, Ihope so. Yeah, no, that's
awesome. And do you? Do you kindof see a trend like, with people
in different industries? Are youkind of like, okay, well, this
(20:14):
person is in this kind ofbusiness. So they should go down
this avenue or this person's inthis or do you? Are you like,
No, it doesn't really matter.
You're the industry, there's,this is just how it is.
Unknown (20:26):
It's, I would say it's less industry dependent, and
it's more person to person, Iwould say the people that I work
with, they're already kind offunny. They just want to know,
what they can inject into theirbusiness. And I'd say most
people are funny, if you don'thave a funny bone in your body.
And like, it just, it just feelslike the opposite of your
(20:49):
nature. Maybe that's just you,but you can lean into that. And
the way to make it funny, Iwould say would be acknowledging
that about yourself, that can befunny. But I don't tend to work
with those people as much. Ijust noticed that all of my
clients are funny. So I don'tknow. Maybe it's just because
(21:10):
everybody's funny. I don't know.
Erin Geiger (21:12):
Yeah. And that actually is interesting. So who
Who do you work with the mostlike, who would you say is
mostly like you're the perfectideal clientele.
Unknown (21:22):
Perfect, ideal clientele would be like,
coaches, that are kind of doinga lot of teaching. Because one
thing that I've noticed is thathumor really helps with getting
messages across. And it helpspeople absorb what it is without
(21:44):
making it personal or like, itfeels things feel less
confrontational. And so thatlike teaching element is kind of
a through line. Because teacherssee the value of using humor to
create engagement, and thingslike that.
Erin Geiger (22:00):
Yeah. Okay, now, I could see that. And so I'm
curious, like, there's ourlisteners kind of range from
like seasoned entrepreneur tothose who are just starting out
and everything in between. So,is there something like you went
out on your own? You know, it's,I'm sure it was all ponies and
rainbows. So it's like, is therelike a key learning or like an
(22:25):
insight that you could share forothers wanting to go out on
their own kind of like, starttheir their own business? Maybe
it's like something that you'relike, Oh, that's a lesson I
learned the hard way.
Unknown (22:38):
Well, I have noticed.
So for me, personally, Iwouldn't necessarily recommend
this path for everybody. ButI've spent a lot of time trying
to reflect more on am I enjoyingwhat I'm doing, rather than Am I
making the most money I could bemaking because I do see a lot of
(23:00):
people that don't seem like a,you know, in our like
entrepreneurial sphere, peoplethat are chasing the money that
don't seem as happy. And it'skind of a path for burnout. And
actually, I was talking to oneof my clients the other day who
she said she would go through aburnout cycle every 18 months,
(23:20):
she would just get completelyburnt out. And she had to take a
step back, she took a full sixmonths off, because she had been
making the money so she couldafford to take six months off.
And during that time, shedecided that she was going to
fire all of her clients, not allof them, but only work with the
(23:41):
ones where she felt like she canfully be herself rather than be
like completely buttoned up. Andbecause of that she's like,
like, purposefully injecting herhumor into her business so that
she doesn't burn out again, andshe's loving her day to day a
(24:04):
lot more. And so yeah, and I'vehad like a similar trajectory.
As far as you know, I did leavea job because I was continually
getting burnt out. And I I amwilling to take the time that it
takes to find my path in a waythat, you know, lights me up and
makes me want to continue doingwhat I'm doing even if it gets
(24:26):
like hard.
Erin Geiger (24:29):
Yeah, no, I think that's something that a lot of
entrepreneurs go through, myselfincluded, you know, when I was
going out on my own, I was like,Well, I have skills and all
these different areas. So I willjust do them all, you know, and
it's like, what, no, don't dothat. And so it's like, you just
get burned out and you're like,just because I can do something
doesn't mean I should do that.
It really is just like honing inon like, yeah, what lights you
(24:52):
up, that's a perfect way to putit and I think it's also very
easy for people to I call it thebillionaire syndrome, where
you're just listening to all thebillionaires talk to you about,
like, how they run theirbusinesses and what they're
doing. And you're like, Well, itworked for them, it must work
for me. And then you findyourself doing a kajillion
different things I need to agroup and I need a course. And I
(25:13):
need a membership. And I needthis, you know, and it's just
like, any of all the things andyou're like, why am I miserable?
You know? And it's like, becauseyou're not checking in with you,
you know, and like, figuring outwhat you want to do. And like
you said, you're chasing themoney. So that's, that's
something that Yeah, we all needto remember for sure. So I'm
super curious. Like, wherebecause you're the only one that
(25:35):
I know, that really focuses onhelping people inject the funny
and you know, that sort of sideof their personality into what,
what they do whether or notbecause you probably helped both
whether or not they'reentrepreneurs, or they're
working with a with a company,because everybody needs this
help. Yeah, how do you likewhat, what do you see moving
(25:59):
forward and your business? Like,what are your goals and visions
as you build it up?
Unknown (26:09):
It's a good question.
But to be honest, I am not veryfocused on what my goals are.
Because I'm just like, in theday to day, I'm enjoying the
work that I'm doing now. So I'mjust hoping that it just kind of
snowballs and, you know, takeson a life of its own, which it's
been doing so far. And just likekind of following what is
(26:32):
enjoyable. Yeah.
Erin Geiger (26:36):
So you're very intentional on the present.
Essential? Yes, yeah. Now,that's great. Because there's
something to be said for that,too. You know, because a lot of
us are, like always thinkingabout the next thing. And it's
like, Well, why don't we giveattention to the current thing
that we're building right now?
So no, I totally get that. Wherecan people find you online, if
they want to connect, get someof your, your wisdom and
(26:57):
expertise and maybe work withyou.
Unknown (27:02):
So I have a lead magnet, that is 10 tips to grab
your audience by the funny bone.
And if you grab that, you'llsign up, it'll sign you up for
my email list, which is how Icommunicate mostly with my
audience. And I can send youthat link, or do you want me to
say it?
Erin Geiger (27:22):
Yeah, either way, you can say it, and then we'll
put it in the show notes. Forsure. Yeah, grab your
Unknown (27:27):
items, by the way, but it's at high ticket humor.com
forward slash bone.
Erin Geiger (27:32):
Nice. And it's high ticket humor. Is that your
website that people should go dofor other things do or just for
that one
Unknown (27:38):
piece? Just for that one?
Erin Geiger (27:41):
Got it? No, that's awesome. Okay, cool. So we'll
add that. And then we always askthis question at the end. My
husband and I, he helps meproduce this show. And we're
just big music heads. And so wealways want to know, if you
could only listen to one musicartists for the rest of your
life. Who would it be?
Beloved's? Wow, you're like onit. People are usually like,
(28:02):
that's a jerk question. I don'tknow. Bill Evans. Okay. I don't
know that. I know. Bill Evans.
Well, kind of he's a jazzpianist. Oh, my God, my
husband's probably like, how doyou not know Bill Evans? Like he
loves Yeah. He's like, slip byso embarrassed right now when
he, when he's gonna be like,mixing this later. He's gonna be
like, Oh, my God, like, really?
I love that. But apparently, Ididn't know what that means. Oh,
(28:25):
that's so awesome. So onSpotify, we have a playlist and
it's like, the our smallbusiness mindset entrepreneur
playlist. And so we mixeverybody's answers together and
a playlist so you can kind oflike, maybe get some inspiration
from fellow entrepreneurs andwhat they like to listen to as
well. So we'll add him on that.
(28:45):
That'd be super fun. Sammy,thank you so much for taking the
time today. This has been suchan awesome conversation. Like I
said, I've never talked toanybody. And we're almost 100
episodes on this show about thistopic. So super interesting. So
I really appreciate it.
Unknown (29:03):
Yeah, thank you so much. This has been fun.
Erin Geiger (29:07):
Thanks for tuning in to the Small Business Big
mindset podcast. To keep the fungoing. Check out our Facebook
groups start and scale an onlinebusiness For even more free
trainings and resources fromfellow entrepreneurs. If you
haven't already, head on over tomuscle creative.com and click
subscribe to join our email listfor weekly updates. And if
you've enjoyed this podcastepisode, check us out on your
favorite podcast platform tofollow us and give us a review.
(29:29):
As always be authentic. Bring aninsane amount of value and keep
crushing it
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