July 30, 2024 • 19 mins
Unlock the secrets of effective HR management for your small business with our HR consultant Dawn Pahel on "Small Business Big World". Dawn and I dissect these nuances of employee classifications, alongside essential compliance topics like overtime laws and youth employment regulations. We share practical strategies for managing remote employees spread across multiple states and emphasize the importance of keeping labor law posters updated and accessible to all staff, whether they're in the office or working from home.
Tune in as we highlight the significance of annual harassment training, focusing on state-specific mandates in places like Maine and California. Dawn offers valuable tips for seasonal businesses and the benefits of digital training solutions. We also discuss the meticulous handling of I-9 forms and the strategic importance of performance development, succession planning, and backup plans for key employees.
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Episode Transcript
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Chris Cuff (00:00):
This is Small Business Big World, our weekly
podcast prepared by the team atPaper Trails.
Owning and running a smallbusiness is hard.
Each week, we'll dive into thechallenges, headaches, trends,
fun and excitement of running asmall business.
After all, small businesses arethe heartbeat of America and
our team is here to keep thembeating.
Welcome to Small Business BigWorld, our weekly podcast
(00:22):
talking about all things smallbusiness.
Today, my guest is Dawn Pell.
Dawn is our HR consultant hereat Paper Trails.
Thank you for joining me, dawn.
Thanks, chris, awesome, well,you know.
So today's topic is HR 101,which is certainly kind of a
boring topic for most smallbusiness owners right, but
that's why we have jobs right.
Dawn Pahel (00:41):
That's exciting to ask.
Chris Cuff (00:42):
Yeah, I mean, that gets me up in the morning anyway
.
So before we dig into it, don'tforget to like, follow, share
rate review, subscribe all thosethings we are on Apple Podcasts
, spotify, tiktok, instagram,facebook.
Wherever you are consuming yourcontent, we are probably there.
John gets us out everywhere.
If you have any questions aboutanything on the podcast or your
questions for guests, you canalways email us at podcast, at
(01:04):
papertrailscom, and we'll getright back to you.
So, dawn, hr 101, right, I knowthat gets you really excited
but most small business ownersdon't think so.
No, no, it's a lot to thinkabout when you start a small
business.
So what are some of the?
You know, what's the firstthing you think about when you
know a small business ownercomes to you and says I need
(01:24):
help with HR.
What's that first thing?
That you go back to them andsay, all right, let's start with
the basics.
Where are you?
Dawn Pahel (01:29):
Okay, so the first thing that I say is let's talk
about compliance and labor laws,because they can be really
complex, depending on the sizeof your business, and can get
you in a lot of trouble if youdon't comply.
Chris Cuff (01:42):
And the government has been doing a very good job
of changing the rules on us allright over the last few years.
Dawn Pahel (01:48):
Yes, absolutely.
Chris Cuff (01:48):
Adjusting and adapting.
So you know what are some ofthose labor laws.
I know there's.
You know overtime laws andchild labor laws and what are
some of those different things.
Dawn Pahel (01:56):
So one of the things in the forefront right now is
exempt versus non-exemptemployees and how those are
classified.
Chris Cuff (02:04):
And exempt versus non-exempt.
For the layperson is salaryversus hourly right, correct,
correct.
So you know, certainly I canyou know, we know this.
The government has come out,federal government has come out
and said we're going to raisethe threshold, the salary
threshold, from, you know,$30-something thousand dollars
to $58,000 annually, and that'sa weekly test, not an annual
(02:24):
test.
So you know, make sure we'rewe're keeping track of that and
that certainly is affecting alot of small business owners,
right, I mean yes, correct theirwage structures.
Dawn Pahel (02:34):
Yes, you know it plays into budgeting purposes.
So if you're budgeting,thinking that you're going to
pay someone a salary and then itends up that you have to pay
them hourly plus overtime, thatcan really dig into your budget,
sure sure, and you know why.
Chris Cuff (02:47):
you know that talks about overtime.
Of course, you know what othertypes of labor laws are out
there that folks need to beaware of.
You know, especially if you'rejust starting out or you know
basics.
Dawn Pahel (02:58):
Youth employment is a big one.
There are a lot of regulationsaround employing people under
the age of 18 and students thatare still in school, so it's a
good idea to have a really goodhandle on those kind of things.
Chris Cuff (03:10):
And there's the big thing about these labor laws is
there are usually state laborlaws and then there's federal
labor laws, and sometimes thefederal labor law is more strict
and sometimes the state laborlaw is more strict, right.
Dawn Pahel (03:21):
Right and trying to figure out that balance and find
out what applies to you.
And you know, if you havebusinesses that are in
multi-states, it can varydepending on the state, so that
that can get pretty complex too.
Chris Cuff (03:34):
Yeah, and really quickly.
That's an HR basic thing too is, you know, labor laws and
payroll and tax and all thatstuff is driven by where your
people are working.
Right, correct, so most peopleare.
You know, most small businessesare fortunate.
They may only have one location, one state to worry about, but
certainly there are plenty ofsmall businesses us included now
that have remote employees allover the place, right?
Dawn Pahel (03:55):
Right?
Well, it's important toremember that the laws where
they're employed, the state thatthey're employed, those are the
laws that are going to apply tothem, not necessarily where the
business is located.
Chris Cuff (04:07):
And you know the other thing that you know that
kind of leads into labor lawposters, right?
I mean, we were having thisconversation the other day.
I'm updating our labor lawposters here at the office
because I have not been ascompliant as we should be.
And you know, the state and thefederal government require that
we put all these labor lawposters up to let the employees
know about their rights, right,and how does that work with, you
know, remote employees indifferent locations and all that
(04:29):
stuff?
Dawn Pahel (04:29):
Right.
So if you have remote employeesthat are not coming into a
physical location, you need toprovide those posters digitally
and you need to keep them up todate for each state that your
employees work in.
Chris Cuff (04:40):
Right, and they change often.
Dawn Pahel (04:43):
Very often.
Chris Cuff (04:45):
And the state may come out.
I mean, in Maine they just cameout with a brand new one, right
, you know, the veterans right,right, yep, and so you've got to
.
Dawn Pahel (04:57):
You know, stay on top of making sure that those
get posted either physically ordigitally every time that they
update a poster or include a newposter.
Chris Cuff (05:03):
How should small businesses stay on top of
keeping up with all thesechanges and new rules and
regulations?
And when the state makes achange or a new labor law poster
, how do they stay on top ofthat?
Dawn Pahel (05:13):
They need to go to the Paper Trails website.
Chris Cuff (05:17):
Well, we certainly do a good job with that, keeping
those out there.
We send things out as they comeup.
But I mean, are there anyresources out there, even when
we all get so many newsletters?
But I don't know, is there?
Dawn Pahel (05:30):
anything that you know of that you know can keep
people on top of this.
The SHRM Society for HumanResources Management website
does a really good job ofposting news bulletins daily and
weekly on any of the labor lawchanges.
The Department of Labor websiteand the state of Maine also do
a good job.
Chris Cuff (05:46):
Yeah, and I would also say you know, stick with
your trade associations.
They do a pretty good job ofkeeping an eye on changing
regulations for your industry,right, if there's things that
are coming up that are going toaffect you.
Dawn Pahel (05:55):
Yes, most of those trade associations are pretty
good too, very industry specificfor you.
Chris Cuff (06:00):
So let's move on from the labor law compliance,
which, of course, is probablythe bedrock of HR, but let's
talk about hiring.
And how do small businesses?
Certainly we know smallbusinesses are having a hard
time finding talent, and maybetalent is the wrong word.
I guess there's finding bodiesin some cases, right, but
certainly you know how shouldfolks go about finding talent
(06:21):
and managing that and so forth?
How should folks go aboutfinding talent and managing that
and so forth.
Dawn Pahel (06:25):
So it's really important to have accurate job
descriptions that outline theduties required for the position
.
Chris Cuff (06:32):
Why?
Because we've got clients allthe time that say I don't need a
job description.
Why do they need a jobdescription?
Dawn Pahel (06:37):
So it's really important to have job
descriptions that clearly definethe roles and responsibilities
so that people know what isexpected of them Well, what
they're coming to work for,right, right, and that's
important.
I mean the roles andresponsibilities so that people
know what is expected of them,well, what they're coming to
work for, right, right, andthat's important.
Chris Cuff (06:46):
I mean gosh, and certainly you know every
business might be unique and ifyou look at you know I guess a
serving position is probablypretty consistent but some
restaurants may have a differentstructure or responsibilities
than others in certain examples,right?
So I think if you havesomething unique, it's important
to have that.
Dawn Pahel (07:01):
Right, and I mean to set employees up for success,
they need to know what'sexpected of them and what their
duties and responsibilities areon a day-to-day basis.
Sure.
Chris Cuff (07:09):
And that's you know.
That's the basics of settingthe expectation right.
There's much more that goesinto managing employees, but so,
once you get your jobdescription, where do you go
from there?
How do you get people to comein the door and how do you onto
the floor to work?
Dawn Pahel (07:22):
So this is where a really good handbook that talks
about your benefit plans orthings specific to your
organization that would be abenefit to the employee the paid
time off, holiday pay, healthand dental and vision plans and
that sort of thing that mightset you apart from your
(07:44):
competition.
Chris Cuff (07:45):
Right.
So what else should shouldemployers be putting in their
handbooks, right?
I mean, that's a prettyimportant thing that every
employer should have.
What else should go in?
Dawn Pahel (07:52):
there.
Definitely all of yourcompany-specific policies need
to be addressed in your handbook.
That can get very extensive.
So one of the ways that you cando that is you can address the
policy and then have a separatefreestanding policy that goes
into more detail.
Chris Cuff (08:11):
And certainly you know.
You and I have seen manydifferent handbooks, from the
bare bones to wow, that's beenway overdone.
Dawn Pahel (08:18):
Right, yes, one extreme to the other.
Chris Cuff (08:21):
Certainly, I think we both probably tend to agree
that there's somewhere in themiddle to keep things going.
But I have seen clients with200-page employee handbooks and
let's be real, what employee isactually going to look at that?
Dawn Pahel (08:33):
Yeah, the chance that an employee is going to
read all 200 pages is very slim.
So if you pare that down toabout, I think 40 to 50 pages is
a good happy medium.
Chris Cuff (08:43):
Yeah, and you know, we see, I always say we see
clients that try to manage theirpeople through their policy or
manage their people throughtechnology, and that's you still
have to manage your peoplefolks.
You can't be, you know youreally, just you can't, you
can't manage on paper.
Dawn Pahel (08:58):
No, no, it's definitely a human interaction.
Chris Cuff (09:02):
What you know.
Once we get them in, we've toldthem you know what we're doing,
what their job is, what they'regoing to be getting for
benefits, pay, all that funstuff.
How are you managing them andmanaging their performance and
their growth and development?
Dawn Pahel (09:18):
So every organization should have a
performance management slash,performance development plan for
each of their employees, sothat they can set goals and have
a place to go from the startingpoint.
Chris Cuff (09:27):
Yeah, just growing internally is really important.
Most employees don't want tojust come in and be that basic,
you know, line worker forever.
They want to be, you know,moving up in the world, right.
Dawn Pahel (09:38):
Right.
They definitely want to knowwhat their path for growth is
and you know, see how they canget there and how you can help
them get there.
Chris Cuff (09:45):
Right Now you know I think most small businesses
probably don't have any sort ofperformance management or
employee review process.
Dawn Pahel (09:59):
Why do you think that that's really important for
small businesses in particular?
Well, with the competition inthe job market right now, people
need to know where they stand,they need to know that there is
a path for growth and what isgoing to be expected of them to
get to that next level.
Chris Cuff (10:13):
Right, and you know, I think most people think of a
performance review as a negativeconnotation, right, and they're
always like, oh, I'm going toget scolded or told how terrible
of a job I am.
But you know, we look at it asan opportunity for kind of a 360
evaluation.
Okay, how do you think you'redoing right and let's validate
that.
You know, and, and you knowwhere do you think you can?
I think when you ask peoplethat question, you're like, oh
(10:34):
yeah, well, I'm really just nota great public speaker.
I'm just not really great atcoming on podcasts and doing
this with chris, right, I don'tknow anything about that.
So, and then that's mechallenging you to try something
new, right?
So you know I I think thatperformance evaluations are
certainly important because it,like you said, it sets the
baseline and the expectation ofwhere the organization needs to
(10:55):
go, where the individual needsto go, and, you know, just kind
of aligns expectations.
Dawn Pahel (10:59):
Right, and one of the things that I always tell
business owners is that thereshould never be any surprises on
a performance evaluation.
People should know what'scoming at them.
Chris Cuff (11:09):
Absolutely, and you know by the time you have to go
and work through someperformance improvement plan,
for example.
Same kind of thing.
You know it shouldn't be asurprise If you have to
terminate someone.
It shouldn't be a surprise,right, if you've been managing
them correctly.
Dawn Pahel (11:22):
Right, they should.
They should know if they'rebeing called into a meeting.
They should know why they're.
They're coming into thatmeeting, right.
Chris Cuff (11:29):
Right, which that's a whole different conversation.
Termination yes, yes, maybewe'll do a whole episode on that
.
Dawn Pahel (11:33):
Yeah, I was going to say that's going to be a whole
podcast, all itself.
Chris Cuff (11:37):
Oh good, so you know , certainly you know, getting
that, those performanceevaluations and development
plans in place is important, butwhat other types of training
and development opportunitiesare you seeing that small
businesses really should bethinking?
Dawn Pahel (11:49):
about.
You know things that arespecific to their industry are
really important.
I know you know there arerestaurant safety trainings and
things like that that have to becompleted annually.
You know there are also somestate and federal trainings that
need to be completed annuallyas well.
Harassment training issomething that the state of
Maine requires for everyemployer to have a training for
(12:14):
their employees annually.
Chris Cuff (12:16):
Which?
How many employees are actuallydoing that?
Dawn Pahel (12:18):
Not as many as I would like to see.
Chris Cuff (12:21):
It's certainly you know.
I think there's great goals andthere are some states that are
much more rigorous in thoserequirements for training, right
?
Dawn Pahel (12:29):
Right.
Chris Cuff (12:29):
I think California is like one of those states
where, gosh, you know, they havethe sexual harassment training
police on the road every day,and because it's important, of
course, but they're just.
The employment culture is muchdifferent in certain states than
it is here in the Northeast ingeneral, so we are somewhat
fortunate in the lack ofenforcement, I would say just
(12:51):
unless there's you, there's bigissues there.
The state of Maine anyway isreally good at teaching rather
than smacking you with the ruler.
Dawn Pahel (12:58):
Right, right, and it's challenging, especially if
you have a seasonal business, toget all of this fit in, but
there are some ways that it canbe done digitally that are a lot
more time effective and you cankind of get it knocked out for
all of your employees prettyquickly.
Chris Cuff (13:15):
Yeah, Especially if you're a seasonal employer, you
can come in and say hey, youknow, we're opening meeting,
right, we're going to have ahalf a day training, we're going
to run through all these things.
Here's all the new things thisseason.
I think it's probably easierfor seasonal business anyway
just to say gosh, we're going todo this one day mandatory
training kind of thing for mostof us to have for a couple of
days or whatever.
Dawn Pahel (13:34):
Right yeah, get everybody all at once.
Chris Cuff (13:36):
What kind of documentation do you know?
Employee paperwork other typesof documentation do small
businesses need to be keepingfor their employees?
I mean, that's a biggie thatmost people aren't great with
either.
Dawn Pahel (13:47):
Right.
No, employee files are a bigthing.
First and foremost, you need tohave a accurate and complete
I-9 form for every employeewhich is filed separately than
their employee file.
It should not be filed in theiremployee file.
Chris Cuff (14:02):
Why is that?
Dawn Pahel (14:03):
So you don't want to keep it in the employee file
because there is some personalinformation that you wouldn't
want to be shared with managersif they're pulling the employee
file for other purposes, andalso, too, if you do get chosen
for an audit, it's really niceto be able to hand the auditor a
binder that they can go throughand they're not digging through
individual employee files.
Chris Cuff (14:24):
And that's one form, the I-9, that is.
For whatever reason, it's veryaudited right.
Ins is out there auditing thesea lot.
Dawn Pahel (14:34):
Yes, very much, and there are some pretty big fines
that go along with either nothaving an I-9 or not having it
completed correctly, which isliterally like the name on the
wrong line, Like if there's ablank line they'll gig you for
that.
Chris Cuff (14:49):
There's lots and lots of things.
I mean, they're very particularright.
Dawn Pahel (14:52):
Yeah, I was just making a checklist for a client
yesterday and there is a 20 pluspage booklet on how to complete
a one page I-9 form.
Chris Cuff (15:01):
Yeah, it's kind of crazy.
So you know, certainly we'veseen the introduction of
E-Verify, which helps your I-9compliance but doesn't replace
the I-9 compliance, correct.
Dawn Pahel (15:12):
No, you still have to physically view each of the
documents and record theinformation into the I-9 form so
that you can then load it intoE-Verify Right.
Chris Cuff (15:22):
So that's a tricky one for sure.
What other documentation?
Dawn Pahel (15:39):
you know, do you think folks should have that you
want to keep separately isanything with any sort of
medical information, any kind ofdrug testing or pre-employment
physicals.
All of those need to be kept ina separate file, away from the
main employee file.
Chris Cuff (15:55):
So we have three employee files.
Dawn Pahel (15:56):
Correct, correct Sounds like a great time.
Yes, yes.
Chris Cuff (16:02):
Any other?
What about the tax forms?
What about those?
Dawn Pahel (16:04):
have to be in there too, yeah you need to have a
completed w-4 form um forfederal and then um as
applicable for each state um.
So you know maine has a statetax, so you would need a main
w-4 for any main employees thatyou have you know, those are the
basics, right?
Chris Cuff (16:23):
we've gone through a lot of the different basics
labor laws, hiring, you know,terminating, developing, paying,
all that kind of stuff,policies.
Let's think a little morestrategically, right?
I mean, I'm you know, I've got10 minutes to stop and think
about where I want to take myorganization.
What's kind of the HR strategypiece that small business can
think about in terms ofdeveloping their organization?
Dawn Pahel (16:42):
So always you know Um.
So always you know um.
Performance development foremployees, um.
And then you know successionplanning.
You probably are not going torun your business for the next
50 years, but you might like tosee it carry on.
So you need to think about youknow.
When you step away, or if youhave key employees stepping away
(17:02):
, who's going to step into thatrole and take over?
Chris Cuff (17:05):
And that's a little bit of the development, right,
you've got you know, as you'redeveloping folks you can plan
for, you know, replacements ofkey employees and things like
that.
Dawn Pahel (17:13):
Yeah, exactly.
So I mean, if your managementteam is.
Chris Cuff (17:15):
You know a couple of people you might say I have
this really strong, you knowjunior person that could step
into that role, or somethingRight, and you know people also,
too, sometimes need to be awayfrom work for extended periods.
Dawn Pahel (17:26):
You know FMLA or you know personal leaves of absence
.
You need someone to be able tostep in and fill that role while
they're out as well.
Chris Cuff (17:33):
All right, I'm going to put you on the spot now.
You ready.
Dawn Pahel (17:36):
I don't do well with on the spot.
I know and Graham can give us abreak if we need to.
Chris Cuff (17:38):
But what is your biggest HR 101 horror story
you've walked into and seen.
Biggest HR 101 horror storyyou've walked into and seen.
Dawn Pahel (17:45):
Zero employee files, zero I-9s no documented pay
records.
Chris Cuff (17:56):
It was really kind of a free-for-all.
Well, there we go.
So keep yourself organized.
That's the first thing, andcertainly you know, here at
Paper Trails, we're happy toassist our clients with these
types of things.
This is what Don's here for isto help build that, and we have
a lot of resources on our blogand on our website at
papertrillscom with some HR 101,hr compliance guides, things
like that that we provide justto anybody that wants them.
Quite frankly, yes, and thenyou know, if you need help with
that afterwards, please feelfree and come to get in touch
(18:18):
with us.
So well, good, well, that wasHR 101.
Does it feel like we completedsuccessfully?
We get an A plus.
Dawn Pahel (18:25):
I think we get an A plus.
Chris Cuff (18:26):
All right, well, good, all right.
Well, thank you everybody forjoining us in this week's
episode, hr 101.
Don Pahel was our guest.
Certainly you can reach out tous at podcast, at papertrailscom
, if you have any questionsabout this episode or any other
episode that we've done.
Don't forget, like follow sharerate review.
We are everywhere you want usto be, I think, so keep an eye
out there for all the fun stuffand otherwise we will see you
(18:47):
next week.
Thanks very much.
Thanks for listening to thisweek's episode of Small Business
Big World.
This podcast is a production ofPaper Trails.
We are a payroll and HR companybased in Kennebunk, maine, and
we serve small and mid-sizedbusinesses across New England
and the country.
If you found this podcasthelpful, don't forget to follow
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As a reminder, the views,opinions and thoughts expressed
(19:10):
by the hosts and guests alone.
The material presented in thispodcast is for general
information purposes only andshould not be considered legal
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By inviting this guest to ourpodcast, paper trails does not
imply endorsement of oropposition to any specific
individual, organization,product or service.
This is Small Business Big World, our weekly
podcast prepared by the team atPaper Trails.
Owning and running a smallbusiness is hard.
Each week, we'll dive into thechallenges, headaches, trends,
fun and excitement of running asmall business.
After all, small businesses arethe heartbeat of America and
our team is here to keep thembeating.
Welcome to Small Business BigWorld, our weekly podcast
(00:22):
talking about all things smallbusiness.
Today, my guest is Dawn Pell.
Dawn is our HR consultant hereat Paper Trails.
Thank you for joining me, dawn.
Thanks, chris, awesome, well,you know.
So today's topic is HR 101,which is certainly kind of a
boring topic for most smallbusiness owners right, but
that's why we have jobs right.
Dawn Pahel (00:41):
That's exciting to ask.
Chris Cuff (00:42):
Yeah, I mean, that gets me up in the morning anyway
.
So before we dig into it, don'tforget to like, follow, share
rate review, subscribe all thosethings we are on Apple Podcasts
, spotify, tiktok, instagram,facebook.
Wherever you are consuming yourcontent, we are probably there.
John gets us out everywhere.
If you have any questions aboutanything on the podcast or your
questions for guests, you canalways email us at podcast, at
(01:04):
papertrailscom, and we'll getright back to you.
So, dawn, hr 101, right, I knowthat gets you really excited
but most small business ownersdon't think so.
No, no, it's a lot to thinkabout when you start a small
business.
So what are some of the?
You know, what's the firstthing you think about when you
know a small business ownercomes to you and says I need
(01:24):
help with HR.
What's that first thing?
That you go back to them andsay, all right, let's start with
the basics.
Where are you?
Dawn Pahel (01:29):
Okay, so the first thing that I say is let's talk
about compliance and labor laws,because they can be really
complex, depending on the sizeof your business, and can get
you in a lot of trouble if youdon't comply.
Chris Cuff (01:42):
And the government has been doing a very good job
of changing the rules on us allright over the last few years.
Dawn Pahel (01:48):
Yes, absolutely.
Chris Cuff (01:48):
Adjusting and adapting.
So you know what are some ofthose labor laws.
I know there's.
You know overtime laws andchild labor laws and what are
some of those different things.
Dawn Pahel (01:56):
So one of the things in the forefront right now is
exempt versus non-exemptemployees and how those are
classified.
Chris Cuff (02:04):
And exempt versus non-exempt.
For the layperson is salaryversus hourly right, correct,
correct.
So you know, certainly I canyou know, we know this.
The government has come out,federal government has come out
and said we're going to raisethe threshold, the salary
threshold, from, you know,$30-something thousand dollars
to $58,000 annually, and that'sa weekly test, not an annual
(02:24):
test.
So you know, make sure we'rewe're keeping track of that and
that certainly is affecting alot of small business owners,
right, I mean yes, correct theirwage structures.
Dawn Pahel (02:34):
Yes, you know it plays into budgeting purposes.
So if you're budgeting,thinking that you're going to
pay someone a salary and then itends up that you have to pay
them hourly plus overtime, thatcan really dig into your budget,
sure sure, and you know why.
Chris Cuff (02:47):
you know that talks about overtime.
Of course, you know what othertypes of labor laws are out
there that folks need to beaware of.
You know, especially if you'rejust starting out or you know
basics.
Dawn Pahel (02:58):
Youth employment is a big one.
There are a lot of regulationsaround employing people under
the age of 18 and students thatare still in school, so it's a
good idea to have a really goodhandle on those kind of things.
Chris Cuff (03:10):
And there's the big thing about these labor laws is
there are usually state laborlaws and then there's federal
labor laws, and sometimes thefederal labor law is more strict
and sometimes the state laborlaw is more strict, right.
Dawn Pahel (03:21):
Right and trying to figure out that balance and find
out what applies to you.
And you know, if you havebusinesses that are in
multi-states, it can varydepending on the state, so that
that can get pretty complex too.
Chris Cuff (03:34):
Yeah, and really quickly.
That's an HR basic thing too is, you know, labor laws and
payroll and tax and all thatstuff is driven by where your
people are working.
Right, correct, so most peopleare.
You know, most small businessesare fortunate.
They may only have one location, one state to worry about, but
certainly there are plenty ofsmall businesses us included now
that have remote employees allover the place, right?
Dawn Pahel (03:55):
Right?
Well, it's important toremember that the laws where
they're employed, the state thatthey're employed, those are the
laws that are going to apply tothem, not necessarily where the
business is located.
Chris Cuff (04:07):
And you know the other thing that you know that
kind of leads into labor lawposters, right?
I mean, we were having thisconversation the other day.
I'm updating our labor lawposters here at the office
because I have not been ascompliant as we should be.
And you know, the state and thefederal government require that
we put all these labor lawposters up to let the employees
know about their rights, right,and how does that work with, you
know, remote employees indifferent locations and all that
(04:29):
stuff?
Dawn Pahel (04:29):
Right.
So if you have remote employeesthat are not coming into a
physical location, you need toprovide those posters digitally
and you need to keep them up todate for each state that your
employees work in.
Chris Cuff (04:40):
Right, and they change often.
Dawn Pahel (04:43):
Very often.
Chris Cuff (04:45):
And the state may come out.
I mean, in Maine they just cameout with a brand new one, right
, you know, the veterans right,right, yep, and so you've got to
.
Dawn Pahel (04:57):
You know, stay on top of making sure that those
get posted either physically ordigitally every time that they
update a poster or include a newposter.
Chris Cuff (05:03):
How should small businesses stay on top of
keeping up with all thesechanges and new rules and
regulations?
And when the state makes achange or a new labor law poster
, how do they stay on top ofthat?
Dawn Pahel (05:13):
They need to go to the Paper Trails website.
Chris Cuff (05:17):
Well, we certainly do a good job with that, keeping
those out there.
We send things out as they comeup.
But I mean, are there anyresources out there, even when
we all get so many newsletters?
But I don't know, is there?
Dawn Pahel (05:30):
anything that you know of that you know can keep
people on top of this.
The SHRM Society for HumanResources Management website
does a really good job ofposting news bulletins daily and
weekly on any of the labor lawchanges.
The Department of Labor websiteand the state of Maine also do
a good job.
Chris Cuff (05:46):
Yeah, and I would also say you know, stick with
your trade associations.
They do a pretty good job ofkeeping an eye on changing
regulations for your industry,right, if there's things that
are coming up that are going toaffect you.
Dawn Pahel (05:55):
Yes, most of those trade associations are pretty
good too, very industry specificfor you.
Chris Cuff (06:00):
So let's move on from the labor law compliance,
which, of course, is probablythe bedrock of HR, but let's
talk about hiring.
And how do small businesses?
Certainly we know smallbusinesses are having a hard
time finding talent, and maybetalent is the wrong word.
I guess there's finding bodiesin some cases, right, but
certainly you know how shouldfolks go about finding talent
(06:21):
and managing that and so forth?
How should folks go aboutfinding talent and managing that
and so forth.
Dawn Pahel (06:25):
So it's really important to have accurate job
descriptions that outline theduties required for the position
.
Chris Cuff (06:32):
Why?
Because we've got clients allthe time that say I don't need a
job description.
Why do they need a jobdescription?
Dawn Pahel (06:37):
So it's really important to have job
descriptions that clearly definethe roles and responsibilities
so that people know what isexpected of them Well, what
they're coming to work for,right, right, and that's
important.
I mean the roles andresponsibilities so that people
know what is expected of them,well, what they're coming to
work for, right, right, andthat's important.
Chris Cuff (06:46):
I mean gosh, and certainly you know every
business might be unique and ifyou look at you know I guess a
serving position is probablypretty consistent but some
restaurants may have a differentstructure or responsibilities
than others in certain examples,right?
So I think if you havesomething unique, it's important
to have that.
Dawn Pahel (07:01):
Right, and I mean to set employees up for success,
they need to know what'sexpected of them and what their
duties and responsibilities areon a day-to-day basis.
Sure.
Chris Cuff (07:09):
And that's you know.
That's the basics of settingthe expectation right.
There's much more that goesinto managing employees, but so,
once you get your jobdescription, where do you go
from there?
How do you get people to comein the door and how do you onto
the floor to work?
Dawn Pahel (07:22):
So this is where a really good handbook that talks
about your benefit plans orthings specific to your
organization that would be abenefit to the employee the paid
time off, holiday pay, healthand dental and vision plans and
that sort of thing that mightset you apart from your
(07:44):
competition.
Chris Cuff (07:45):
Right.
So what else should shouldemployers be putting in their
handbooks, right?
I mean, that's a prettyimportant thing that every
employer should have.
What else should go in?
Dawn Pahel (07:52):
there.
Definitely all of yourcompany-specific policies need
to be addressed in your handbook.
That can get very extensive.
So one of the ways that you cando that is you can address the
policy and then have a separatefreestanding policy that goes
into more detail.
Chris Cuff (08:11):
And certainly you know.
You and I have seen manydifferent handbooks, from the
bare bones to wow, that's beenway overdone.
Dawn Pahel (08:18):
Right, yes, one extreme to the other.
Chris Cuff (08:21):
Certainly, I think we both probably tend to agree
that there's somewhere in themiddle to keep things going.
But I have seen clients with200-page employee handbooks and
let's be real, what employee isactually going to look at that?
Dawn Pahel (08:33):
Yeah, the chance that an employee is going to
read all 200 pages is very slim.
So if you pare that down toabout, I think 40 to 50 pages is
a good happy medium.
Chris Cuff (08:43):
Yeah, and you know, we see, I always say we see
clients that try to manage theirpeople through their policy or
manage their people throughtechnology, and that's you still
have to manage your peoplefolks.
You can't be, you know youreally, just you can't, you
can't manage on paper.
Dawn Pahel (08:58):
No, no, it's definitely a human interaction.
Chris Cuff (09:02):
What you know.
Once we get them in, we've toldthem you know what we're doing,
what their job is, what they'regoing to be getting for
benefits, pay, all that funstuff.
How are you managing them andmanaging their performance and
their growth and development?
Dawn Pahel (09:18):
So every organization should have a
performance management slash,performance development plan for
each of their employees, sothat they can set goals and have
a place to go from the startingpoint.
Chris Cuff (09:27):
Yeah, just growing internally is really important.
Most employees don't want tojust come in and be that basic,
you know, line worker forever.
They want to be, you know,moving up in the world, right.
Dawn Pahel (09:38):
Right.
They definitely want to knowwhat their path for growth is
and you know, see how they canget there and how you can help
them get there.
Chris Cuff (09:45):
Right Now you know I think most small businesses
probably don't have any sort ofperformance management or
employee review process.
Dawn Pahel (09:59):
Why do you think that that's really important for
small businesses in particular?
Well, with the competition inthe job market right now, people
need to know where they stand,they need to know that there is
a path for growth and what isgoing to be expected of them to
get to that next level.
Chris Cuff (10:13):
Right, and you know, I think most people think of a
performance review as a negativeconnotation, right, and they're
always like, oh, I'm going toget scolded or told how terrible
of a job I am.
But you know, we look at it asan opportunity for kind of a 360
evaluation.
Okay, how do you think you'redoing right and let's validate
that.
You know, and, and you knowwhere do you think you can?
I think when you ask peoplethat question, you're like, oh
(10:34):
yeah, well, I'm really just nota great public speaker.
I'm just not really great atcoming on podcasts and doing
this with chris, right, I don'tknow anything about that.
So, and then that's mechallenging you to try something
new, right?
So you know I I think thatperformance evaluations are
certainly important because it,like you said, it sets the
baseline and the expectation ofwhere the organization needs to
(10:55):
go, where the individual needsto go, and, you know, just kind
of aligns expectations.
Dawn Pahel (10:59):
Right, and one of the things that I always tell
business owners is that thereshould never be any surprises on
a performance evaluation.
People should know what'scoming at them.
Chris Cuff (11:09):
Absolutely, and you know by the time you have to go
and work through someperformance improvement plan,
for example.
Same kind of thing.
You know it shouldn't be asurprise If you have to
terminate someone.
It shouldn't be a surprise,right, if you've been managing
them correctly.
Dawn Pahel (11:22):
Right, they should.
They should know if they'rebeing called into a meeting.
They should know why they're.
They're coming into thatmeeting, right.
Chris Cuff (11:29):
Right, which that's a whole different conversation.
Termination yes, yes, maybewe'll do a whole episode on that
.
Dawn Pahel (11:33):
Yeah, I was going to say that's going to be a whole
podcast, all itself.
Chris Cuff (11:37):
Oh good, so you know , certainly you know, getting
that, those performanceevaluations and development
plans in place is important, butwhat other types of training
and development opportunitiesare you seeing that small
businesses really should bethinking?
Dawn Pahel (11:49):
about.
You know things that arespecific to their industry are
really important.
I know you know there arerestaurant safety trainings and
things like that that have to becompleted annually.
You know there are also somestate and federal trainings that
need to be completed annuallyas well.
Harassment training issomething that the state of
Maine requires for everyemployer to have a training for
(12:14):
their employees annually.
Chris Cuff (12:16):
Which?
How many employees are actuallydoing that?
Dawn Pahel (12:18):
Not as many as I would like to see.
Chris Cuff (12:21):
It's certainly you know.
I think there's great goals andthere are some states that are
much more rigorous in thoserequirements for training, right
?
Dawn Pahel (12:29):
Right.
Chris Cuff (12:29):
I think California is like one of those states
where, gosh, you know, they havethe sexual harassment training
police on the road every day,and because it's important, of
course, but they're just.
The employment culture is muchdifferent in certain states than
it is here in the Northeast ingeneral, so we are somewhat
fortunate in the lack ofenforcement, I would say just
(12:51):
unless there's you, there's bigissues there.
The state of Maine anyway isreally good at teaching rather
than smacking you with the ruler.
Dawn Pahel (12:58):
Right, right, and it's challenging, especially if
you have a seasonal business, toget all of this fit in, but
there are some ways that it canbe done digitally that are a lot
more time effective and you cankind of get it knocked out for
all of your employees prettyquickly.
Chris Cuff (13:15):
Yeah, Especially if you're a seasonal employer, you
can come in and say hey, youknow, we're opening meeting,
right, we're going to have ahalf a day training, we're going
to run through all these things.
Here's all the new things thisseason.
I think it's probably easierfor seasonal business anyway
just to say gosh, we're going todo this one day mandatory
training kind of thing for mostof us to have for a couple of
days or whatever.
Dawn Pahel (13:34):
Right yeah, get everybody all at once.
Chris Cuff (13:36):
What kind of documentation do you know?
Employee paperwork other typesof documentation do small
businesses need to be keepingfor their employees?
I mean, that's a biggie thatmost people aren't great with
either.
Dawn Pahel (13:47):
Right.
No, employee files are a bigthing.
First and foremost, you need tohave a accurate and complete
I-9 form for every employeewhich is filed separately than
their employee file.
It should not be filed in theiremployee file.
Chris Cuff (14:02):
Why is that?
Dawn Pahel (14:03):
So you don't want to keep it in the employee file
because there is some personalinformation that you wouldn't
want to be shared with managersif they're pulling the employee
file for other purposes, andalso, too, if you do get chosen
for an audit, it's really niceto be able to hand the auditor a
binder that they can go throughand they're not digging through
individual employee files.
Chris Cuff (14:24):
And that's one form, the I-9, that is.
For whatever reason, it's veryaudited right.
Ins is out there auditing thesea lot.
Dawn Pahel (14:34):
Yes, very much, and there are some pretty big fines
that go along with either nothaving an I-9 or not having it
completed correctly, which isliterally like the name on the
wrong line, Like if there's ablank line they'll gig you for
that.
Chris Cuff (14:49):
There's lots and lots of things.
I mean, they're very particularright.
Dawn Pahel (14:52):
Yeah, I was just making a checklist for a client
yesterday and there is a 20 pluspage booklet on how to complete
a one page I-9 form.
Chris Cuff (15:01):
Yeah, it's kind of crazy.
So you know, certainly we'veseen the introduction of
E-Verify, which helps your I-9compliance but doesn't replace
the I-9 compliance, correct.
Dawn Pahel (15:12):
No, you still have to physically view each of the
documents and record theinformation into the I-9 form so
that you can then load it intoE-Verify Right.
Chris Cuff (15:22):
So that's a tricky one for sure.
What other documentation?
Dawn Pahel (15:39):
you know, do you think folks should have that you
want to keep separately isanything with any sort of
medical information, any kind ofdrug testing or pre-employment
physicals.
All of those need to be kept ina separate file, away from the
main employee file.
Chris Cuff (15:55):
So we have three employee files.
Dawn Pahel (15:56):
Correct, correct Sounds like a great time.
Yes, yes.
Chris Cuff (16:02):
Any other?
What about the tax forms?
What about those?
Dawn Pahel (16:04):
have to be in there too, yeah you need to have a
completed w-4 form um forfederal and then um as
applicable for each state um.
So you know maine has a statetax, so you would need a main
w-4 for any main employees thatyou have you know, those are the
basics, right?
Chris Cuff (16:23):
we've gone through a lot of the different basics
labor laws, hiring, you know,terminating, developing, paying,
all that kind of stuff,policies.
Let's think a little morestrategically, right?
I mean, I'm you know, I've got10 minutes to stop and think
about where I want to take myorganization.
What's kind of the HR strategypiece that small business can
think about in terms ofdeveloping their organization?
Dawn Pahel (16:42):
So always you know Um.
So always you know um.
Performance development foremployees, um.
And then you know successionplanning.
You probably are not going torun your business for the next
50 years, but you might like tosee it carry on.
So you need to think about youknow.
When you step away, or if youhave key employees stepping away
(17:02):
, who's going to step into thatrole and take over?
Chris Cuff (17:05):
And that's a little bit of the development, right,
you've got you know, as you'redeveloping folks you can plan
for, you know, replacements ofkey employees and things like
that.
Dawn Pahel (17:13):
Yeah, exactly.
So I mean, if your managementteam is.
Chris Cuff (17:15):
You know a couple of people you might say I have
this really strong, you knowjunior person that could step
into that role, or somethingRight, and you know people also,
too, sometimes need to be awayfrom work for extended periods.
Dawn Pahel (17:26):
You know FMLA or you know personal leaves of absence
.
You need someone to be able tostep in and fill that role while
they're out as well.
Chris Cuff (17:33):
All right, I'm going to put you on the spot now.
You ready.
Dawn Pahel (17:36):
I don't do well with on the spot.
I know and Graham can give us abreak if we need to.
Chris Cuff (17:38):
But what is your biggest HR 101 horror story
you've walked into and seen.
Biggest HR 101 horror storyyou've walked into and seen.
Dawn Pahel (17:45):
Zero employee files, zero I-9s no documented pay
records.
Chris Cuff (17:56):
It was really kind of a free-for-all.
Well, there we go.
So keep yourself organized.
That's the first thing, andcertainly you know, here at
Paper Trails, we're happy toassist our clients with these
types of things.
This is what Don's here for isto help build that, and we have
a lot of resources on our blogand on our website at
papertrillscom with some HR 101,hr compliance guides, things
like that that we provide justto anybody that wants them.
Quite frankly, yes, and thenyou know, if you need help with
that afterwards, please feelfree and come to get in touch
(18:18):
with us.
So well, good, well, that wasHR 101.
Does it feel like we completedsuccessfully?
We get an A plus.
Dawn Pahel (18:25):
I think we get an A plus.
Chris Cuff (18:26):
All right, well, good, all right.
Well, thank you everybody forjoining us in this week's
episode, hr 101.
Don Pahel was our guest.
Certainly you can reach out tous at podcast, at papertrailscom
, if you have any questionsabout this episode or any other
episode that we've done.
Don't forget, like follow sharerate review.
We are everywhere you want usto be, I think, so keep an eye
out there for all the fun stuffand otherwise we will see you
(18:47):
next week.
Thanks very much.
Thanks for listening to thisweek's episode of Small Business
Big World.
This podcast is a production ofPaper Trails.
We are a payroll and HR companybased in Kennebunk, maine, and
we serve small and mid-sizedbusinesses across New England
and the country.
If you found this podcasthelpful, don't forget to follow
us at at paper trails payrollacross all social media
platforms and check us out atpaper trailscom for more
information.
As a reminder, the views,opinions and thoughts expressed
(19:10):
by the hosts and guests alone.
The material presented in thispodcast is for general
information purposes only andshould not be considered legal
or financial advice.
By inviting this guest to ourpodcast, paper trails does not
imply endorsement of oropposition to any specific
individual, organization,product or service.
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