October 15, 2024 • 21 mins
As you prepare for the next chapter of life, what hurdles await you? Join us and special guest Josh Chase from BGA Financial as we unravel the often-overlooked transition into retirement, a significant shift especially challenging for small business owners whose identities are tightly interwoven with their careers. Josh shares his insights into balancing financial plans with emotional readiness. We explore personal stories like that of a newspaper editor grappling with his sense of self-worth after retiring and a receptionist's unexpected approach to her final workday.
This episode promises a holistic approach to retirement planning, blending financial readiness with emotional well-being. We emphasize the power of conversations with loved ones and advisors to navigate the fear and uncertainty of retiring. Whether you're considering retiring soon or planning for the distant future, this discussion offers insights to prepare for a satisfying and meaningful life beyond the workforce.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Small Business Big World, our weekly
podcast prepared by the team atPaper Trails.
Owning and running a smallbusiness is hard.
Each week, we'll dive into thechallenges, headaches, trends,
fun and excitement of running asmall business.
After all, small businesses arethe heartbeat of America and
our team is here to keep thembeating.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
The following is not considered legal advice or
counsel.
Please seek legal advice priorto making any decisions.
Securities and investmentadvisory services offered
through Osaic Wealth Inc.
Member FINRA, sipc.
Osaic Wealth is separatelyowned and other entities and or
marketing names, products orservices referenced here are
independent of Osaic WealthInsurance offered through BGA
Retirement Advisors.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Welcome to Small Business Big World, our weekly
podcast where we talk about allthings small business.
So today my guest is Josh Chasefrom BGA Financial.
Welcome, thank you.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Good morning Chris.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
How are you so?
You know we talk a lot aboutgetting ready for retirement,
but today we're going to talkabout the emotional side of
getting ready for retirement.
Right, that's a big piece.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think the financial piece ofretirement is covered by a lot
of people and people know howimportant it is to make sure you
have enough money forretirement.
But I think that emotional sideof retirement is not talked
about enough.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Right.
So that's what we're going totalk about today.
But before we get into that,don't forget like, follow, share
, rate, review, subscribe.
We are everywhere you get yourpodcast.
We certainly appreciate anyratings you can give us.
That helps us grow as well.
If you ever have a question forus or any of our guests, you
can email us at podcast, atpaper trailscom.
So let's talk.
Let's start from the beginning.
The financial piece of that,right we all you know since we
(01:28):
first got our jobs.
You know, even sometimes beforethat we're taught, you know,
start saving early forretirement.
Right, you know what is whatyou're a financial advisor.
What are you working withclients on?
That financial piece in thatrealm?
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Yeah.
So you're right.
People you know, people talkabout saving money from the
first nickel you earn.
When you're, however old youare, people are regularly
talking to you about theimportance of saving money
saving money for the future.
And people when they're closerto retirement.
It's easy to think aboutretirement because you can
almost see it there.
It's difficult to talk tosomeone in their teens, 20s, 30s
(02:02):
, even 40s about retirement, butit's important and saving for
retirement is important andthat's something I regularly do
with folks help them understandthe importance of saving for
that point of retirement.
And it's funny I often getquestions from people.
They say hey, josh, when can Iretire?
And I always say, half kiddingbut half serious, I'm like you
(02:22):
can retire anytime you want.
I mean you literally can walkout the door right now and tell
the boss you're not coming back.
Anybody can do that at any time, at any age.
The real question is where'sthe money going to come from for
you to do the things that youneed to do and want to do?
So that's sort of the financialside of it.
But the things you know.
Obviously you need money to dothose things that you need to do
(02:46):
.
You got to pay your bills, putfood on the table.
But what about the things youwant to do?
You know that's obviouslysometimes money's important for
that, but that's when you starttalking into the emotional side
of things.
What is it that you do want todo in retirement Right?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
You know we work with a lot of small businesses, as
you do, and you know one of ourclients last year came to us,
you know, approaching theretirement age, you know blue
collar.
He's, you know auto mechanicruns great business and he's
like gosh, I really didn't startthinking about you know, I just
thought I was going to workforever right in my late 50s.
And you know, now I need somehelp, I need to talk to somebody
about, you know, the financialpiece of it, because you know a
(03:24):
lot of small business ownersalso think, gosh, my business is
my retirement.
In one way, whether I'm going towork forever, or you know I'm
going to sell it, or whatever.
You know, do you see a lot ofclients like that too, that are
behind the eight ball, or youknow, getting ready for it, or
don't think about it until it'stoo late, right?
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Yeah, absolutely.
And you hit the nail on thehead with small businesses and
any small business owner knowsthis they often put their life
into that small business andsometimes, either appropriately
or inappropriately, they mightthink this is my retirement, you
know, I'm going to cash out orcash in, however you want to say
it someday and that's going tobe what it is, how I'm going to
fund my retirement, or I'm goingto do this forever.
Right, that's often what peoplethink.
(04:01):
But I think those and also whenyou talk about, like the
identity what's somebody'sidentity?
I see a lot of people strugglewhen they retire, when they stop
working.
They're trying to find what itis that their purpose is, moving
forward, and a lot of peoplehave work or their careers as
their identity.
That's who you are.
I mean, think about any timeyou go to, like a cocktail party
(04:24):
or a networking event.
What's the first thing you asksomeone, what do you do?
It's not who are you, it's whatdo you do.
It's like, oh, I'm an engineerI'm an architect, I'm a doctor.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
It'd be great if you had something exciting other
than you know.
Hey, I do payroll right.
Right, finding that purpose.
Yeah, that's the whole ideayeah, but but so.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
So you know, right or wrong, that's often people's
identity and small businessowners who probably I don't want
to say necessarily more thanothers, but that's really you
know that's been a passion forthem for their entire lives.
So to be able to just sort ofwalk away from that, I think is
really difficult emotionally forfolks.
(04:58):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Absolutely, and you know we talked earlier just kind
of about the different stagesof life and that's really
interesting to me because Inever thought about it that way.
But what are you seeing asyou're working with clients and
through their stages of theemotional point of life, right,
yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
So you know, if you think about life in different
phases, most of it's scripted.
You know, when somebody's born,up until I don't know age 18,
20, it's a very scripted life,it's okay.
And up until I don't know age18, 20.
It's a very scripted life, it'sokay.
You're a child.
You learn how to walk and talkand eat.
You go to school because you'resupposed to.
When you go to high school andmaybe prepare for college, it's
(05:33):
pretty scripted.
Everybody knows sort ofintuitively what it is that
you're supposed to do.
People sort of know how toraise kids.
And then, when you get in your20s and 30s, it's like, okay,
now I'm learning how to be anadult.
Maybe you go to college, maybeyou buy a house, get your first
job it's okay, now I know whatI'm supposed to do.
And then it's very scripted.
And then maybe you get marriedand you have kids and you build
(05:54):
your career and it's okay,that's very scripted.
But the final phase, whateveryou want to call it, however you
want to look at it which issort of post-career, post-kids,
empty nester, Now it's like,okay, what do I do?
I'm retired.
There's no handbook on how tolive during your retirement
years, what it is you'resupposed to do, what it is that
(06:14):
your purpose is, what brings youjoy, and I see a lot of people
struggle with that.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Yeah, and so what do you?
I know you spend a lot of timethinking about that.
What are you doing to help yourclients as you're working with
them over the years, rightthrough the different phases of
life?
How are you helping themthrough that, coaching them and
so forth?
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Yeah, so obviously the financial side of things is
important, making sure youreduce your debt and save
appropriately in the differentbuckets, however that might work
for each individual.
But it's also just when folkslook forward to retirement, when
you see that, whether it's five, 15, 20 years ahead, start
thinking about other things.
You know what things beyondyour career or your family bring
(06:56):
you joy that you like to do,whether you spend time with, and
especially with, couples, chris, I see I often have people come
sit down with me and I'll ask abasic question like you know
hey, what do you, you know, whatdo the two of you want to do in
retirement?
I'll hear completely differentanswers.
People have been married 20, 30, 40 years and they sort of look
(07:17):
at each other like really Ididn't know you wanted to do
that and you know not that I'm acounselor or anything.
I'm like, hey, maybe the two ofyou might want to sort of talk
about what it is that you wantto do in retirement and have
like an idea well in advance ofgetting to that point.
So from the financial side ofthings, sometimes I've had
people sit down with me and theysay okay, josh, I'm 64 and a
(07:41):
half years old and I'm going toretire in six months, at 66.
Here's my stuff, what can we do?
And sometimes I'll docalculations and I'll look and
my inside voice says well, youneed to get in a time machine
and go back 10 or 15 years andwe'll start this conversation
over again, because what it isthat you want to do and the
amount of money you have is notaligned.
So from a financial standpoint,I tell people you really need to
(08:03):
stop thinking about this stuffin advance of that point of
retirement.
From a non-financial standpoint, it's the same thing.
It's like OK, what do you thinkthat you want to do?
If you're single, fine.
If you're a couple, fine.
But figure out those thingsthat you want to do and how you
might approach that inretirement to bring you that
(08:24):
sort of purpose beyond what itwas during your working years.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Are you seeing people slow down or semi-retire and or
take a minute to say, gosh, Ireally enjoy X right, this is my
true passion.
Before they retire, you seeingpeople?
I mean, I have a long ways forretirement, so I haven't started
thinking about that, but so I'mtrying to get myself ready.
Right Gosh, I've got a few moreyears, but how are people
getting themselves emotionallyprepared?
(08:50):
I know you're really big onsupporting those clients.
How are people doing that?
Speaker 3 (08:54):
You know I don't see it enough and that's why I enjoy
actually talking about this andtalking with folks.
You know, I think people focusa lot on the financial side of
retirement, which is animportant thing to do, but I
think I just I'm not seeingpeople do enough.
Talking enough about that,chris, unfortunately.
(09:15):
So you know, again, going backto what I was saying, I just
think people need to think aboutthe emotional side of it, need
to think about what brings themhappiness and just have those
conversations, whether it's withan advisor, friend, neighbors,
their spouse, whoever, just tosort of identify how emotionally
you can approach retirementsuccessfully.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
So another piece of the emotions and I mean I have
this emotion at 35 years old isI'm not going to have enough to
retire, right, that's somethingthat I know my father, who's
much closer to retirement than Iam I don't have enough to
retire, right, he does and Iwill and we'll all be fine and
we'll figure it all out.
But how are people managingthat emotion and kind of going
(09:57):
through that phase of it?
Are you saying, well, gosh,here's the plan, this is what we
can project out.
We can't break the future, butyou know we think you're going
to be fine or you need to changea strategy, right?
Are those conversations thatyou're having with people as
well, I mean?
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Yeah, you know, going back to when you know you
earned your first nickel.
However old you were, you spentyour entire life earning and
saving money and again, that'sscripted.
Everyone sort of knows how todo that.
People are preaching to oneanother constantly about how to
save money and the differentsources of savings accounts, etc
(10:32):
.
But not enough.
People also talk about the.
When you stop earning money, youknow, if you picture yourself
as a like a money making machine, truly you are a machine that
makes money.
That's your ability to earnincome.
And when you stop doing that atage 65, sometimes age 70, when
people have been working oftenfor 45 or 50 years, every Monday
(10:55):
, tuesday, wednesday, thursday,friday, they wake up, they go to
work and they get a paycheck atthe end of the week and then
all of a sudden to say, okay,don't do that anymore.
People just don't know how todo that.
They don't understand and thatemotional toll is like I have no
idea how to stop doing this andthe idea of no longer putting
money into a bucket reallyscares me.
(11:16):
And now you're telling me Ihave to start taking money out
of this bucket and there mightbe a bottom of that bucket.
That's kind of scary for a lotof people Right.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Absolutely.
That's what I, you know.
That's what I think about,right, what you know, you said
when we talked a couple weeksago that you know, when your
clients retire, that you know.
Following Monday, you call themand say hey, what's going on?
How are you feeling?
Speaker 3 (11:38):
I love, I love, I love that I didn't sort of what
I was just talking about, theidea of like working for 40 or
50 years and then one day you goto work and then the next day
all of a sudden you wake upliterally with nothing to do.
And it's fascinating.
But I think that's also whatscares a lot of people.
I've seen so many people theyrush towards that, they're like
I can't wait for that day, andother people.
(12:00):
I think it really truly scaresthem.
But I've had severalconversations with people that
tell me they're going to retireand I kind of it's weird.
I kind of get excited.
I'm like, oh my gosh, can Icall you?
They're like, yeah, sure,absolutely.
And there's one gentleman thatI work with and every time I
call him I'm like so what's onthe agenda today?
What are you doing?
And he's great and he's verycontent, and I love the word
(12:29):
contentment.
He's very content and he's like, yeah, you know what he goes.
I just think I'm gonna go trima couple of trees, I'm gonna
drive my tractor out back alittle bit.
I absolutely love that.
And I read I read years ago thiswas a really interesting story
there was, uh, some uh editor orsomething in a big newspaper
out west in California orsomething like that.
And uh, so his, he, his identity, was working for this newspaper
for 30 or 40 years.
That's what he did his entirelife.
And he said the sort of thegreatest and the worst day of
(12:50):
his life was when he woke up theday after retirement and went
to his doorstep and thenewspaper was there.
And what he said was you know?
He realized he's like, wait asecond, they're going to do just
fine without me.
And he thought you know, I'mthis big shot and I, you know, I
helped build this newspaper andthey can't operate without me.
And and then the next day anewspaper showed up and he's
(13:11):
like, wow, he goes, I'm justanother number, I'm just another
person, they don't necessarilyneed me.
He was really excited to reachretirement but realize at that
same time that, oh my gosh, I,that's, that's not I'm.
That my identity was sort ofall wrong.
Who I saw myself is notnecessarily the way other people
(13:31):
saw me.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
That's interesting, I think you know we all, again,
we have our identity right,which for me, is I'm guilty of
it right, my business.
I work too much.
I enjoy it, of course, but youknow I don't take the time to
enjoy other things sometimes andI think that's, you know,
things we all need to stop andthink about and say gosh.
We need to stop and smell theroses and realize that you know
(13:52):
we do have a finite time.
The bucket's going to come to.
You know it's going to getempty at some point.
You might as well enjoy itwhile it's full right.
Yeah, I think that's somethingthat we all probably should take
a step back and think about?
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Yeah, absolutely, Absolutely.
And I, you know, with respectto people reaching retirement, I
also I love the way peopleapproach retirement and think
about that actual day we weretalking a moment ago about, like
, when I get excited to hearpeople like you know, like what?
Speaker 2 (14:17):
are you doing?
Speaker 3 (14:18):
on that last day, you having a party, like it's just
that, it's that sort of finality, that it's that final moment of
like I've been doing this allmy life of finality, that it's
that final moment of like I'vebeen doing this all my life and
like how does it end?
And there's no other, there'sreally no other thing in life
where I can see, where it's justyou're preparing for something,
this sort of final moment whereyou're telling someone, a group
(14:40):
or career or something whereI'm done with that and you've
been doing it for you know 30,40, 50 years, and to see what
that moment is going to be like.
A few years back I was workingwith this, with this woman.
She, she was fantastic and shewas a receptionist at this
organization and she announcedher retirement and she was
working there for 30 years,something like that, and she's
(15:01):
and she said, all right, thetime is right for me to retire.
And she didn't know the actualday.
But she prearranged with theboss and said, hey, within the
next couple of months I'm goingto retire.
I don't know the exact date,but she said I know that I'm
going to be driving home one dayand I'm going to know that's my
last day and I'm just not goingto show up the next day.
(15:23):
And she said to the boss theemployer in me is cringing right
now.
Well, she said she said to theboss out of respect for you, I
don't want you know, I don'twant you guys to worry about me
and I don't want to, just, youknow, stiff you guys and not
have somebody in the boss.
That I 100% understand.
You do what you need to do,we'll be prepared for whenever
that day is.
And then, sure enough, she wasjust driving home one day and I
talked to her after this and shelooked at me and she goes yeah,
(15:45):
I was just driving home one dayand she looked around.
She goes yep, today's the day,and she just didn't show up the
next day.
I was just like wow, and I wasjust like so fascinated by that.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
I'm like how do you do that?
That's just so cool.
It's cool and again,frightening as an employer,
right, you know, that successionplane, that's a whole different
episode, but you know, that'scertainly something that small
business owners need to thinkabout.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
But I think I think for her too.
I think part of it was the fearof of facing those emotions and
having people hug her and give,giving her a cake and throw in
a party and giving her cards.
I think part of it was shedidn't want to face that.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
So you didn't want the finality.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
She didn't.
That's right, that's exactlyright Interesting.
Interesting, interesting.
What have you seen in yourclients?
(16:42):
You know that has fulfilledthem.
What have you seen them doing.
You know what are thing and, asyou know, when you're
passionate, very passionateabout what you do, it's hard to
let that go sometimes.
But when they have somebody tomentor, somebody to pass on that
wisdom, pass on that business,pass on that knowledge, all of
that information, I've seen thatgives people a lot of
(17:02):
satisfaction.
So that and you know whetherit's like handing off a baton
and allowing someone to continueyour legacy, what it is that
you've done so small businessowners that's definitely
something that's brought themhappiness and passion and makes
it easier for them to sort ofreach that retirement phase,
sort of phasing out ofretirement, rather than that
(17:23):
final moment.
You know, you see that likeokay, I'm here on a Friday and
I'm not going to show up on aMonday is one thing, but I think
we're seeing a lot more of thatsort of phasing into retirement
or phasing out of your career.
I was working five days a week,now it's four, now it's three,
especially, I think, with theway unemployment rates are, and
(17:43):
I think businesses are very muchwilling to work with people
that are good quality employeesto say hey, we know you're at
that point of retirement.
We'll work with you, we'll beflexible and allow you to sort
of phase into retirement whichwill help you emotionally deal
with.
Okay, I'm working five days aweek.
(18:04):
Now I'm working four days aweek and it has that extra day
to allow you to find thatfulfillment and that purpose
outside of your career.
Then maybe down to three days,rather than working on a Friday,
waking up on a Monday withnothing to do.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Right, and that's a perfect example.
We're doing that hereinternally.
You know, I have an employee,long-time employee, wonderful,
wonderful.
You know, about two years agowe kind of transitioned her into
her retirement role, somethingthat's a little less stressful,
you know, senior level kind ofposition, not the monotony, the
craziness of the day to day.
And now we're starting to havethat conversation of like, okay,
(18:39):
how much longer do you reallywant to work and do you want to
go to a couple of days a weekbefore you?
You know, so you can start tophase in which I think is works
great for me as an employer andI think certainly for certain
folks it might work, you know,as an employee as well.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Yeah, you know it's hard enough for businesses to
find quality employees right now, so when you have one, you
don't want to lose themAbsolutely.
But I also see a lot ofbusiness owners take a certain
amount of pride in havingsomebody retire from their
organization.
I see that a lot with smallbusinesses incredibly proud,
(19:13):
especially some newer businesseswhere they have, like the first
person to retire from theircompany.
Business owners take a lot ofpride in that.
They're like you know what?
I was able to give somebody acareer.
I was able to give them theability to phase into retirement
with some dignity, and it'sreally it's pretty neat to say.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
That's really cool.
So I think retirement's a longway for a lot of us.
You know we're getting ready to.
You know we're getting readyearly to retire, and then you
know it comes, and now we are,we're there and you know, I
think I have to find my purposewhen we get there.
I don't know if you've startedthinking about yours.
You know, I think that's kindof the summary of you know,
today is really just gettingyourself emotionally ready,
(19:51):
right, that's the big piece ofit, and certainly we don't want
to see the people that just gohome and sit in the chair for 20
years and then go to the boxright, that's terrible, well,
good.
Well, just a reminder.
Our disclaimer Josh is afinancial advisor.
Everything that we've talkedabout today is not advice or
counsel.
Please continue to seek yourown advice and counsel from your
trusted advisors as well.
(20:12):
So that is wonderful.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Thank you so much, josh, we really appreciate it
Before we head off.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Don't forget please like follow share rate review.
We really appreciate all thosereviews.
That helps us grow and again,if you have any questions for us
, you can reach out to us atpodcast at papertrailscom.
Josh, how do folks get in touchwith you if they want more
advice to where they want to sitin your chaise lounge?
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Yeah, thank you In the office.
Yeah, absolutely.
Email address is jchase atbgaretirementcom.
Telephone 207-233-8237 or visitour website wwwbgafinancialcom.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Awesome.
Well, thank you so much.
Thanks very much, josh, andthanks everyone for listening
today and we'll see you verysoon.
Thanks for listening to thisweek's episode of Small Business
, big World.
This podcast is a production ofPaper Trails.
We are a payroll and HR companybased in Kennebunk, maine, and
we serve small and mid-sizedbusinesses across New England
and the country.
If you found this podcasthelpful, don't forget to follow
us at at Paper Trails Payrollacross all social media
platforms and check us out atpapertrailscom for more
(21:09):
information.
As a reminder, the views,opinions and thoughts expressed
by the hosts and guests alone.
The material presented in thispodcast is for general
information purposes only andshould not be considered legal
or financial advice.
By inviting this guest to ourpodcast, paper Trails does not
imply endorsement of oropposition to any specific
individual, organization,product or service.
This is Small Business Big World, our weekly
podcast prepared by the team atPaper Trails.
Owning and running a smallbusiness is hard.
Each week, we'll dive into thechallenges, headaches, trends,
fun and excitement of running asmall business.
After all, small businesses arethe heartbeat of America and
our team is here to keep thembeating.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
The following is not considered legal advice or
counsel.
Please seek legal advice priorto making any decisions.
Securities and investmentadvisory services offered
through Osaic Wealth Inc.
Member FINRA, sipc.
Osaic Wealth is separatelyowned and other entities and or
marketing names, products orservices referenced here are
independent of Osaic WealthInsurance offered through BGA
Retirement Advisors.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Welcome to Small Business Big World, our weekly
podcast where we talk about allthings small business.
So today my guest is Josh Chasefrom BGA Financial.
Welcome, thank you.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Good morning Chris.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
How are you so?
You know we talk a lot aboutgetting ready for retirement,
but today we're going to talkabout the emotional side of
getting ready for retirement.
Right, that's a big piece.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think the financial piece ofretirement is covered by a lot
of people and people know howimportant it is to make sure you
have enough money forretirement.
But I think that emotional sideof retirement is not talked
about enough.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Right.
So that's what we're going totalk about today.
But before we get into that,don't forget like, follow, share
, rate, review, subscribe.
We are everywhere you get yourpodcast.
We certainly appreciate anyratings you can give us.
That helps us grow as well.
If you ever have a question forus or any of our guests, you
can email us at podcast, atpaper trailscom.
So let's talk.
Let's start from the beginning.
The financial piece of that,right we all you know since we
(01:28):
first got our jobs.
You know, even sometimes beforethat we're taught, you know,
start saving early forretirement.
Right, you know what is whatyou're a financial advisor.
What are you working withclients on?
That financial piece in thatrealm?
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Yeah.
So you're right.
People you know, people talkabout saving money from the
first nickel you earn.
When you're, however old youare, people are regularly
talking to you about theimportance of saving money
saving money for the future.
And people when they're closerto retirement.
It's easy to think aboutretirement because you can
almost see it there.
It's difficult to talk tosomeone in their teens, 20s, 30s
(02:02):
, even 40s about retirement, butit's important and saving for
retirement is important andthat's something I regularly do
with folks help them understandthe importance of saving for
that point of retirement.
And it's funny I often getquestions from people.
They say hey, josh, when can Iretire?
And I always say, half kiddingbut half serious, I'm like you
(02:22):
can retire anytime you want.
I mean you literally can walkout the door right now and tell
the boss you're not coming back.
Anybody can do that at any time, at any age.
The real question is where'sthe money going to come from for
you to do the things that youneed to do and want to do?
So that's sort of the financialside of it.
But the things you know.
Obviously you need money to dothose things that you need to do
(02:46):
.
You got to pay your bills, putfood on the table.
But what about the things youwant to do?
You know that's obviouslysometimes money's important for
that, but that's when you starttalking into the emotional side
of things.
What is it that you do want todo in retirement Right?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
You know we work with a lot of small businesses, as
you do, and you know one of ourclients last year came to us,
you know, approaching theretirement age, you know blue
collar.
He's, you know auto mechanicruns great business and he's
like gosh, I really didn't startthinking about you know, I just
thought I was going to workforever right in my late 50s.
And you know, now I need somehelp, I need to talk to somebody
about, you know, the financialpiece of it, because you know a
(03:24):
lot of small business ownersalso think, gosh, my business is
my retirement.
In one way, whether I'm going towork forever, or you know I'm
going to sell it, or whatever.
You know, do you see a lot ofclients like that too, that are
behind the eight ball, or youknow, getting ready for it, or
don't think about it until it'stoo late, right?
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Yeah, absolutely.
And you hit the nail on thehead with small businesses and
any small business owner knowsthis they often put their life
into that small business andsometimes, either appropriately
or inappropriately, they mightthink this is my retirement, you
know, I'm going to cash out orcash in, however you want to say
it someday and that's going tobe what it is, how I'm going to
fund my retirement, or I'm goingto do this forever.
Right, that's often what peoplethink.
(04:01):
But I think those and also whenyou talk about, like the
identity what's somebody'sidentity?
I see a lot of people strugglewhen they retire, when they stop
working.
They're trying to find what itis that their purpose is, moving
forward, and a lot of peoplehave work or their careers as
their identity.
That's who you are.
I mean, think about any timeyou go to, like a cocktail party
(04:24):
or a networking event.
What's the first thing you asksomeone, what do you do?
It's not who are you, it's whatdo you do.
It's like, oh, I'm an engineerI'm an architect, I'm a doctor.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
It'd be great if you had something exciting other
than you know.
Hey, I do payroll right.
Right, finding that purpose.
Yeah, that's the whole ideayeah, but but so.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
So you know, right or wrong, that's often people's
identity and small businessowners who probably I don't want
to say necessarily more thanothers, but that's really you
know that's been a passion forthem for their entire lives.
So to be able to just sort ofwalk away from that, I think is
really difficult emotionally forfolks.
(04:58):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Absolutely, and you know we talked earlier just kind
of about the different stagesof life and that's really
interesting to me because Inever thought about it that way.
But what are you seeing asyou're working with clients and
through their stages of theemotional point of life, right,
yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
So you know, if you think about life in different
phases, most of it's scripted.
You know, when somebody's born,up until I don't know age 18,
20, it's a very scripted life,it's okay.
And up until I don't know age18, 20.
It's a very scripted life, it'sokay.
You're a child.
You learn how to walk and talkand eat.
You go to school because you'resupposed to.
When you go to high school andmaybe prepare for college, it's
(05:33):
pretty scripted.
Everybody knows sort ofintuitively what it is that
you're supposed to do.
People sort of know how toraise kids.
And then, when you get in your20s and 30s, it's like, okay,
now I'm learning how to be anadult.
Maybe you go to college, maybeyou buy a house, get your first
job it's okay, now I know whatI'm supposed to do.
And then it's very scripted.
And then maybe you get marriedand you have kids and you build
(05:54):
your career and it's okay,that's very scripted.
But the final phase, whateveryou want to call it, however you
want to look at it which issort of post-career, post-kids,
empty nester, Now it's like,okay, what do I do?
I'm retired.
There's no handbook on how tolive during your retirement
years, what it is you'resupposed to do, what it is that
(06:14):
your purpose is, what brings youjoy, and I see a lot of people
struggle with that.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Yeah, and so what do you?
I know you spend a lot of timethinking about that.
What are you doing to help yourclients as you're working with
them over the years, rightthrough the different phases of
life?
How are you helping themthrough that, coaching them and
so forth?
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Yeah, so obviously the financial side of things is
important, making sure youreduce your debt and save
appropriately in the differentbuckets, however that might work
for each individual.
But it's also just when folkslook forward to retirement, when
you see that, whether it's five, 15, 20 years ahead, start
thinking about other things.
You know what things beyondyour career or your family bring
(06:56):
you joy that you like to do,whether you spend time with, and
especially with, couples, chris, I see I often have people come
sit down with me and I'll ask abasic question like you know
hey, what do you, you know, whatdo the two of you want to do in
retirement?
I'll hear completely differentanswers.
People have been married 20, 30, 40 years and they sort of look
(07:17):
at each other like really Ididn't know you wanted to do
that and you know not that I'm acounselor or anything.
I'm like, hey, maybe the two ofyou might want to sort of talk
about what it is that you wantto do in retirement and have
like an idea well in advance ofgetting to that point.
So from the financial side ofthings, sometimes I've had
people sit down with me and theysay okay, josh, I'm 64 and a
(07:41):
half years old and I'm going toretire in six months, at 66.
Here's my stuff, what can we do?
And sometimes I'll docalculations and I'll look and
my inside voice says well, youneed to get in a time machine
and go back 10 or 15 years andwe'll start this conversation
over again, because what it isthat you want to do and the
amount of money you have is notaligned.
So from a financial standpoint,I tell people you really need to
(08:03):
stop thinking about this stuffin advance of that point of
retirement.
From a non-financial standpoint, it's the same thing.
It's like OK, what do you thinkthat you want to do?
If you're single, fine.
If you're a couple, fine.
But figure out those thingsthat you want to do and how you
might approach that inretirement to bring you that
(08:24):
sort of purpose beyond what itwas during your working years.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Are you seeing people slow down or semi-retire and or
take a minute to say, gosh, Ireally enjoy X right, this is my
true passion.
Before they retire, you seeingpeople?
I mean, I have a long ways forretirement, so I haven't started
thinking about that, but so I'mtrying to get myself ready.
Right Gosh, I've got a few moreyears, but how are people
getting themselves emotionallyprepared?
(08:50):
I know you're really big onsupporting those clients.
How are people doing that?
Speaker 3 (08:54):
You know I don't see it enough and that's why I enjoy
actually talking about this andtalking with folks.
You know, I think people focusa lot on the financial side of
retirement, which is animportant thing to do, but I
think I just I'm not seeingpeople do enough.
Talking enough about that,chris, unfortunately.
(09:15):
So you know, again, going backto what I was saying, I just
think people need to think aboutthe emotional side of it, need
to think about what brings themhappiness and just have those
conversations, whether it's withan advisor, friend, neighbors,
their spouse, whoever, just tosort of identify how emotionally
you can approach retirementsuccessfully.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
So another piece of the emotions and I mean I have
this emotion at 35 years old isI'm not going to have enough to
retire, right, that's somethingthat I know my father, who's
much closer to retirement than Iam I don't have enough to
retire, right, he does and Iwill and we'll all be fine and
we'll figure it all out.
But how are people managingthat emotion and kind of going
(09:57):
through that phase of it?
Are you saying, well, gosh,here's the plan, this is what we
can project out.
We can't break the future, butyou know we think you're going
to be fine or you need to changea strategy, right?
Are those conversations thatyou're having with people as
well, I mean?
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Yeah, you know, going back to when you know you
earned your first nickel.
However old you were, you spentyour entire life earning and
saving money and again, that'sscripted.
Everyone sort of knows how todo that.
People are preaching to oneanother constantly about how to
save money and the differentsources of savings accounts, etc
(10:32):
.
But not enough.
People also talk about the.
When you stop earning money, youknow, if you picture yourself
as a like a money making machine, truly you are a machine that
makes money.
That's your ability to earnincome.
And when you stop doing that atage 65, sometimes age 70, when
people have been working oftenfor 45 or 50 years, every Monday
(10:55):
, tuesday, wednesday, thursday,friday, they wake up, they go to
work and they get a paycheck atthe end of the week and then
all of a sudden to say, okay,don't do that anymore.
People just don't know how todo that.
They don't understand and thatemotional toll is like I have no
idea how to stop doing this andthe idea of no longer putting
money into a bucket reallyscares me.
(11:16):
And now you're telling me Ihave to start taking money out
of this bucket and there mightbe a bottom of that bucket.
That's kind of scary for a lotof people Right.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Absolutely.
That's what I, you know.
That's what I think about,right, what you know, you said
when we talked a couple weeksago that you know, when your
clients retire, that you know.
Following Monday, you call themand say hey, what's going on?
How are you feeling?
Speaker 3 (11:38):
I love, I love, I love that I didn't sort of what
I was just talking about, theidea of like working for 40 or
50 years and then one day you goto work and then the next day
all of a sudden you wake upliterally with nothing to do.
And it's fascinating.
But I think that's also whatscares a lot of people.
I've seen so many people theyrush towards that, they're like
I can't wait for that day, andother people.
(12:00):
I think it really truly scaresthem.
But I've had severalconversations with people that
tell me they're going to retireand I kind of it's weird.
I kind of get excited.
I'm like, oh my gosh, can Icall you?
They're like, yeah, sure,absolutely.
And there's one gentleman thatI work with and every time I
call him I'm like so what's onthe agenda today?
What are you doing?
And he's great and he's verycontent, and I love the word
(12:29):
contentment.
He's very content and he's like, yeah, you know what he goes.
I just think I'm gonna go trima couple of trees, I'm gonna
drive my tractor out back alittle bit.
I absolutely love that.
And I read I read years ago thiswas a really interesting story
there was, uh, some uh editor orsomething in a big newspaper
out west in California orsomething like that.
And uh, so his, he, his identity, was working for this newspaper
for 30 or 40 years.
That's what he did his entirelife.
And he said the sort of thegreatest and the worst day of
(12:50):
his life was when he woke up theday after retirement and went
to his doorstep and thenewspaper was there.
And what he said was you know?
He realized he's like, wait asecond, they're going to do just
fine without me.
And he thought you know, I'mthis big shot and I, you know, I
helped build this newspaper andthey can't operate without me.
And and then the next day anewspaper showed up and he's
(13:11):
like, wow, he goes, I'm justanother number, I'm just another
person, they don't necessarilyneed me.
He was really excited to reachretirement but realize at that
same time that, oh my gosh, I,that's, that's not I'm.
That my identity was sort ofall wrong.
Who I saw myself is notnecessarily the way other people
(13:31):
saw me.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
That's interesting, I think you know we all, again,
we have our identity right,which for me, is I'm guilty of
it right, my business.
I work too much.
I enjoy it, of course, but youknow I don't take the time to
enjoy other things sometimes andI think that's, you know,
things we all need to stop andthink about and say gosh.
We need to stop and smell theroses and realize that you know
(13:52):
we do have a finite time.
The bucket's going to come to.
You know it's going to getempty at some point.
You might as well enjoy itwhile it's full right.
Yeah, I think that's somethingthat we all probably should take
a step back and think about?
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Yeah, absolutely, Absolutely.
And I, you know, with respectto people reaching retirement, I
also I love the way peopleapproach retirement and think
about that actual day we weretalking a moment ago about, like
, when I get excited to hearpeople like you know, like what?
Speaker 2 (14:17):
are you doing?
Speaker 3 (14:18):
on that last day, you having a party, like it's just
that, it's that sort of finality, that it's that final moment of
like I've been doing this allmy life of finality, that it's
that final moment of like I'vebeen doing this all my life and
like how does it end?
And there's no other, there'sreally no other thing in life
where I can see, where it's justyou're preparing for something,
this sort of final moment whereyou're telling someone, a group
(14:40):
or career or something whereI'm done with that and you've
been doing it for you know 30,40, 50 years, and to see what
that moment is going to be like.
A few years back I was workingwith this, with this woman.
She, she was fantastic and shewas a receptionist at this
organization and she announcedher retirement and she was
working there for 30 years,something like that, and she's
(15:01):
and she said, all right, thetime is right for me to retire.
And she didn't know the actualday.
But she prearranged with theboss and said, hey, within the
next couple of months I'm goingto retire.
I don't know the exact date,but she said I know that I'm
going to be driving home one dayand I'm going to know that's my
last day and I'm just not goingto show up the next day.
(15:23):
And she said to the boss theemployer in me is cringing right
now.
Well, she said she said to theboss out of respect for you, I
don't want you know, I don'twant you guys to worry about me
and I don't want to, just, youknow, stiff you guys and not
have somebody in the boss.
That I 100% understand.
You do what you need to do,we'll be prepared for whenever
that day is.
And then, sure enough, she wasjust driving home one day and I
talked to her after this and shelooked at me and she goes yeah,
(15:45):
I was just driving home one dayand she looked around.
She goes yep, today's the day,and she just didn't show up the
next day.
I was just like wow, and I wasjust like so fascinated by that.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
I'm like how do you do that?
That's just so cool.
It's cool and again,frightening as an employer,
right, you know, that successionplane, that's a whole different
episode, but you know, that'scertainly something that small
business owners need to thinkabout.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
But I think I think for her too.
I think part of it was the fearof of facing those emotions and
having people hug her and give,giving her a cake and throw in
a party and giving her cards.
I think part of it was shedidn't want to face that.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
So you didn't want the finality.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
She didn't.
That's right, that's exactlyright Interesting.
Interesting, interesting.
What have you seen in yourclients?
(16:42):
You know that has fulfilledthem.
What have you seen them doing.
You know what are thing and, asyou know, when you're
passionate, very passionateabout what you do, it's hard to
let that go sometimes.
But when they have somebody tomentor, somebody to pass on that
wisdom, pass on that business,pass on that knowledge, all of
that information, I've seen thatgives people a lot of
(17:02):
satisfaction.
So that and you know whetherit's like handing off a baton
and allowing someone to continueyour legacy, what it is that
you've done so small businessowners that's definitely
something that's brought themhappiness and passion and makes
it easier for them to sort ofreach that retirement phase,
sort of phasing out ofretirement, rather than that
(17:23):
final moment.
You know, you see that likeokay, I'm here on a Friday and
I'm not going to show up on aMonday is one thing, but I think
we're seeing a lot more of thatsort of phasing into retirement
or phasing out of your career.
I was working five days a week,now it's four, now it's three,
especially, I think, with theway unemployment rates are, and
(17:43):
I think businesses are very muchwilling to work with people
that are good quality employeesto say hey, we know you're at
that point of retirement.
We'll work with you, we'll beflexible and allow you to sort
of phase into retirement whichwill help you emotionally deal
with.
Okay, I'm working five days aweek.
(18:04):
Now I'm working four days aweek and it has that extra day
to allow you to find thatfulfillment and that purpose
outside of your career.
Then maybe down to three days,rather than working on a Friday,
waking up on a Monday withnothing to do.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Right, and that's a perfect example.
We're doing that hereinternally.
You know, I have an employee,long-time employee, wonderful,
wonderful.
You know, about two years agowe kind of transitioned her into
her retirement role, somethingthat's a little less stressful,
you know, senior level kind ofposition, not the monotony, the
craziness of the day to day.
And now we're starting to havethat conversation of like, okay,
(18:39):
how much longer do you reallywant to work and do you want to
go to a couple of days a weekbefore you?
You know, so you can start tophase in which I think is works
great for me as an employer andI think certainly for certain
folks it might work, you know,as an employee as well.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Yeah, you know it's hard enough for businesses to
find quality employees right now, so when you have one, you
don't want to lose themAbsolutely.
But I also see a lot ofbusiness owners take a certain
amount of pride in havingsomebody retire from their
organization.
I see that a lot with smallbusinesses incredibly proud,
(19:13):
especially some newer businesseswhere they have, like the first
person to retire from theircompany.
Business owners take a lot ofpride in that.
They're like you know what?
I was able to give somebody acareer.
I was able to give them theability to phase into retirement
with some dignity, and it'sreally it's pretty neat to say.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
That's really cool.
So I think retirement's a longway for a lot of us.
You know we're getting ready to.
You know we're getting readyearly to retire, and then you
know it comes, and now we are,we're there and you know, I
think I have to find my purposewhen we get there.
I don't know if you've startedthinking about yours.
You know, I think that's kindof the summary of you know,
today is really just gettingyourself emotionally ready,
(19:51):
right, that's the big piece ofit, and certainly we don't want
to see the people that just gohome and sit in the chair for 20
years and then go to the boxright, that's terrible, well,
good.
Well, just a reminder.
Our disclaimer Josh is afinancial advisor.
Everything that we've talkedabout today is not advice or
counsel.
Please continue to seek yourown advice and counsel from your
trusted advisors as well.
(20:12):
So that is wonderful.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Thank you so much, josh, we really appreciate it
Before we head off.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Don't forget please like follow share rate review.
We really appreciate all thosereviews.
That helps us grow and again,if you have any questions for us
, you can reach out to us atpodcast at papertrailscom.
Josh, how do folks get in touchwith you if they want more
advice to where they want to sitin your chaise lounge?
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Yeah, thank you In the office.
Yeah, absolutely.
Email address is jchase atbgaretirementcom.
Telephone 207-233-8237 or visitour website wwwbgafinancialcom.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Awesome.
Well, thank you so much.
Thanks very much, josh, andthanks everyone for listening
today and we'll see you verysoon.
Thanks for listening to thisweek's episode of Small Business
, big World.
This podcast is a production ofPaper Trails.
We are a payroll and HR companybased in Kennebunk, maine, and
we serve small and mid-sizedbusinesses across New England
and the country.
If you found this podcasthelpful, don't forget to follow
us at at Paper Trails Payrollacross all social media
platforms and check us out atpapertrailscom for more
(21:09):
information.
As a reminder, the views,opinions and thoughts expressed
by the hosts and guests alone.
The material presented in thispodcast is for general
information purposes only andshould not be considered legal
or financial advice.
By inviting this guest to ourpodcast, paper Trails does not
imply endorsement of oropposition to any specific
individual, organization,product or service.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.