S1, E100: SLUG Mag/ Craft Lake City - Angela Brown - Small Lake City

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
And one day he brought home a slug magazine and
I opened it up and it was like,oh my god, there's this whole
other local world.
I knew there was something else.
I always loved, I was just drawnto photography.
So I got that promotion.
30 days I moved to San Franciscoand I accept this job.
Let me tell you something.
And I was like, okay, what's up?
And he was like, uh got thisfamily secret that I haven't

(01:57):
known how to tell anyone.
So I'm gonna stay.
I'm gonna take over SlugMagazine.
I'm gonna help transition you.
I learned I learned so much.

SPEAKER_02 (02:05):
What is up, everybody, and welcome back to
another episode of the SmallLake City Podcast.
I'm your host, Eric Nielsen, andthis week's guest is Slug
Magazine's very own AngelaBrown.
Now, Angela Brown has been theexecutive editor for Slug
Magazine since before theadoption of the internet.
Now, she has seen this businesschange from a team of three
people to now a team of over ahundred people, including all of

(02:28):
the volunteers that help supporther.
Not only has she made SlugMagazine into what it is today,
she also created Craft LakeCity, a festival involved with
bringing creators together andchampioning them in their own
respective craft.
So great conversation with her,born and raised in Immigration
Canyon.
But let's jump into it and hopeyou enjoy.
Like I'm a big believer in likeday job, like I don't love.

(02:51):
Like it's not that's not thepassion.
Yeah.
But I like it enough that ittakes care of my life and
livelihood and gives mesomething that I don't want to
bang my head against.

SPEAKER_00 (03:00):
And and you could probably clock in and clock out.
Yeah.
Like as opposed to like 10o'clock at night Saturday
morning or something.

SPEAKER_02 (03:06):
Well, and that was one thing that um, like when I
started that job, I mean thatwas only in February.
And so when I was interviewingfor it, he's like, Well, tell me
about you.
I'm like, by the way, I'm not amorning person, I'm not gonna
work East Coast hours.
My ADHD is in a way that I can'tsit down in front of a computer
for nine hours.
So I like to take breaks.
I also host a podcast, sosometimes I'm gonna have to take
a break during the middle of theday to go record, but I'll make

(03:26):
up for it when I can like justlater in the day or at different
times.
And if you feel like thingsaren't working, like let me
know.
Yeah.
He's like, Yeah, sounds like youknow what you're doing, so go do
it.
So it's nice where and he justkind of gives me the freedom and
autonomy and I do it.

SPEAKER_00 (03:40):
That's great.
So he's not like you only worked36 hours.

SPEAKER_02 (03:44):
Oh god.
If I had if if if he was thatperson, I would not be employed
by him.

SPEAKER_00 (03:48):
Cool.
He's just like, get the jobdone, cursive money.

SPEAKER_02 (03:51):
Exactly.
Crazy concept.
But no, it works out.
And then like I don't know, it'sbeen fun to like where I have
work, it's like, yeah, it'sfine, it is what it is.
Like I'll never be the personthat just like makes the career
your entire personality.

SPEAKER_00 (04:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (04:05):
But it's fun to have but you kind of are though with
this, right?
Yeah, well, that's like thething I was gonna say is like I
did this started off as likethis passion project slash like
itch that I didn't know at thetime how much I needed to
scratch.

SPEAKER_03 (04:17):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (04:18):
And then as this has just become such a of its own
thing, it's like, oh, like, uh,okay.
Like now I have both of thesethings, like even until
recently, I like like released aposter on Instagram about it,
set it in the newsletter, andsaid it on like the Tuesday
update I do every Tuesday.
But I'm like, there's a lotgoing on in my life right now,
and I just kind of need to likepause, chill, and just kind of

(04:38):
reset, reconnect, re-rethinkthings.
And so that's where it's like,all right, let's do a clean cut
for season one.
Take a couple months, focus onother things, take a breath.
I mean, even not just like thisand work, but then like mean
just general state of the worldis a lot, and I try not to let
it make me be a lot, but thenit's yeah, it is a lot.
Um, so just trying to take careof myself.

SPEAKER_00 (05:00):
Cool.

SPEAKER_02 (05:01):
Good job.
It's only one person can onlyone person will ever care about
me as much as they need to, andit's me.

SPEAKER_00 (05:05):
It's true.

SPEAKER_02 (05:06):
So little by little.

SPEAKER_00 (05:08):
Good job.

SPEAKER_02 (05:09):
Yeah.
And I'm excited because I'mexcited too.
Cause like so, so first thingsfirst, one thing that I will
always pride myself on, well notpride myself on, but like I'm
never interested in the shinyside of Salt Lake.
Like, I'm not the person who,like, I was talking to a friend
who, I mean, he lives in FederalHeights.
He's he has a name that's on alot of buildings around the
University of Utah campus, likea great friend of mine.

(05:31):
And then we were talking aboutwhere we live, and I was like,
Oh, I live like in MarmaladeDistrict.
And they're like, Well, I hearthat there's just so many meth.
I'm like, not really.
I mean, I see a homeless persontalking to himself every now and
then, and it's up and coming,and there's great things and
great people, but like I'malways so much more interested
in like the underbelly.
Like, I'd rather go grab a newsweatshirt at the heavy metal
shop than try to go to uhanthropology at the mall and try

(05:51):
to find something that workswith a nice candle to pair.
And which my mom is always justlike, no, I just don't
understand why you're doing thissort of thing.
And I'm like, mother, listen,that's okay.
You don't have to understandeverything.
And so, I mean, slug itself,Salt Lake Underground, is always
been, I mean, for over almost 30years.
No.

SPEAKER_00 (06:09):
37 in February.

SPEAKER_02 (06:10):
Yeah.
Cause I was thinking since itwas in your tenure, well, you
started in 97, which we'll getto, and then took over the helm
of in 2000.

SPEAKER_00 (06:17):
Yeah.
Um You've done your researchlike that.

SPEAKER_02 (06:20):
I d honestly, I did more than I usually do.
Like you, like I I like to be, Idon't like to be very prepared
because I like to like justdiscover things on the fly
because it's more fun foreverybody.
Um, but it's been interestingbecause like that's always been
kind of like I mean, you go tothe the gas station, you go to
the grocery store, you go toyour favorite store, and there's
always like a slug stand there.
And so it's kind of always oneof these background things.

(06:41):
And then as I've gotten to knowpeople better, talk to people
more, and just experienced themmore, it's like, oh, like
they're the ones that kind oftalk about the things that
nobody else talks about and havebeen doing it for longer than
people have been talking abouttalking about things.

SPEAKER_00 (06:54):
It's a lifestyle.
It is.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (06:56):
So excited to hear more about it, and especially
from your perspective of it allum in in all of it.
But because I don't know,actually I didn't even do my
research on this, but are youeven originally from Salt Lake?
I am okay.
Born and raised.
Where at?

SPEAKER_00 (07:08):
Uh so what neighborhood?

SPEAKER_02 (07:10):
Yeah, I mean, just yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tell me about that.

SPEAKER_00 (07:12):
I'd love to.
Yeah, I grew up in EmigrationCanyon.
Well, uh, but this is allbefore.
Yeah, this is a little bitbefore what it is now, which
it's still great now.
Yes.
Um, but it back then it was itwas full of hippies and uh an
LDS community.
And I was part of the LDScommunity with my family.
Make sense.
And yeah, it was a great placeto grow up.
Um, not not nearly as many,probably like I'd say at least a

(07:35):
half of what the population isup there now.
Um, but it was also kind ofisolating.
But you know, I didn't mindthat.
Uh but it really gave me a greatappreciation for nature.
And you know, Immigration Canyonis really like it's like a five,
10 minute drive from theUniversity of Utah campus and
like 20 minutes from downtown.
So it's really the best of bothworlds.

(07:55):
You get all this beautifulnature and then you get city
life too.

SPEAKER_02 (07:58):
Yeah, and it's been fun to see how it's changed over
time because like even when Iwas growing up, like I knew it
was there.
I knew that it kind of had thisweird back connection to get to
uh I-80.
Yeah, in Park City in Park City,but I never really experienced
it.
And then there's a period in mylife like seven-ish years ago
where I mean road biking a lot.

(08:19):
And so, and if you're oh yeah, acyclist in Utah, you're right,
I'm up and down immigration allday every day.
And so that's when it's like Ihad like my little markers
because everybody knows aboutroots, and now everybody knows
about immigration brewing, andthen you have like the fire
station on the left, and thenyou keep going, and then you
have the the um uh switchbacks,and you get to the top, and and
so it's been fun to see howthat's changed, but it's also

(08:39):
become this place where I feellike it's like where a lot of
people build like theirretirement home or like their
drain home because it's there'sa lot of lots and it's just like
an easy place to find land, andnow that's turning into like
Huntsville and some of theseother kind of hot spots.
But before that it was just likelike you said, it was either
Canyon folk.
Exactly.
And so I'm I jealous becauselike there was one point um in
like I guess I quote past lifewhere I was like, I think it'd

(09:01):
be fun to buy land there, build,or buy a house there.

SPEAKER_00 (09:03):
And then now that's like it's like um might need to
keep saving up now.
Yeah, yeah.
They used to call us canyonkids.
In fact, they'd make fun of usbecause so we were in between
school districts, so they wouldship uh ship us, so they would
buzz buzz us um to graniteschool districts.
So that's like the skyline, likeEast New York because those uh
school districts were waning inpopulation, and then the

(09:25):
downtown school districts at thetime were still pretty full.
Yeah, and so um, so that's kindof how the city navigated it.
So we ended up being bussed outthere.
Um, and then also kids fromSandy would get bussed into
those schools.
So sometimes I'd have friendsthat like lived out in Draper
and Sandy.
Interesting.
And um, that was interestingtoo.
Yeah, but Canyon kids is whatthey call them.
They kind of make fun of us, youknow.
You country bumpkins, countrybumpkin kids.

SPEAKER_02 (09:47):
We're like, what's yeah, that's pretty cool.
Uh like it's like interesting onthe topic or side tangent of
like high school line.
Because there was someone who'sasked me the other day, they're
like, No, as um SLC's aka BryantHeath was posted about he's
like, Oh, here's a sign for EastHigh all the way over in like
the middle of Glendale.
And someone was like, Well, thatdoesn't make sense.

(10:08):
How's okay?
Okay, get while you'refrustrated, but it really comes
down to because there used to beEast, West, and South.
Yeah, and then South shut down.
Yep.
And there was, and I actuallyneed to validate this because
I've just heard the story somany times of like there was
like this class presidents ofall these schools, and like,
well, how do we divide this up?
And like everybody was kind oflike, Oh, well, we don't want to
take the West side of like EastHighland, um uh East Highland

(10:31):
West.
Yeah.
And then all of a sudden they'relike, All right, like we'll take
this, you take that, you takethis, which I mean again leads
to everybody getting bussed infrom, I mean, across the entire
city to get there.
But it's just kind of like oneof those weird like things that
you don't realize, which playsinto you guys getting bust there
because these schools are full.
And then now in today it's likethese are all these schools are
shutting down because no one'shaving families anymore.

(10:51):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (10:51):
There's more dogs in Salt Lake City proper than kids.
And I haven't trolled to that.
I contribute to both of those,actually.
One kid, one dog, one cat.

SPEAKER_02 (10:59):
Yeah, one in one works out pretty good.
Um so born-raised immigration,yeah, canyon kid.
Um so talk to me about I meanwhat I mean, the the next phase
of life was like even afterSkyline.
Did you always think you weregonna be a photographer, editor,
yeah, work in a magazine?

SPEAKER_00 (11:15):
Or well, so maybe so when I was growing up in
Immigration Canyon, actually,uh, you know, I mentioned it was
a little bit isolating.
Yes.
And that's actually when Idiscovered Slug magazine because
you know, I grew up in thisreally conservative LDS
household.
And um, you know, growing up inthe canyon, there you weren't
really taught much other thanwhat you were kind of taught.
And it was hard to have accessto the outside world.

(11:37):
I mean, this is pre-internet,right?
And so, you know, there weremail or mail order catalogs,
magazines you could get, thingslike that.
But um, you know, again, likecoming living in a conservative
LDS household, um, you had towork hard to like figure out
what else was out there.
And I just always had thisfeeling that like, gosh, this
isn't this isn't for me.
You know, um, there's gotta besomething else than what I'm

(12:00):
being shown.
And so um, we actually my mycousin Jared was kind of a
rebellious uh teenager and he hewas he couldn't live with his
parents and he was um he appliedto Westminster, got accepted.
And so my mom was like, Oh,let's have in love with us, you
know.
And so at the time he was intoreally incredible music, you
know, the music of like the 80sand the 90s, you know, new way,

(12:20):
new wave, punk, grunge, youknow, hardcore.
So I learned a lot of music fromhim, and then one day he brought
home a slug magazine.
And you know, I was like 12years old or something, and I
was like, wow, this is reallyincredible.
And I opened it up and it waslike, oh my God, there's this
whole other local world.
I knew there was something else,you know.
And so, uh, so he would likefeed me slug magazines.
And so that was my firstexposure to it.

(12:42):
And then, you know, I alsosimultaneously just felt like um
the gospel doctrine that I waslearning at the time just wasn't
for me.
And so I was kind of able tonegotiate with my parents what
it would look like if I stoppedgoing to church.

SPEAKER_02 (12:53):
Yeah.
And how old was this?
Because that's like a lot oflike like uh like emotional,
social, and like spiritualawareness to be like, all right,
all right, family, listen.
So uh no more focal morning.
I got this slug magazine.
Yeah, great, cool.
I'll still do my triores, stilldo good grades.

SPEAKER_00 (13:07):
But well, I brokered a deal with my dad.

SPEAKER_02 (13:09):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (13:09):
And you know, my mom, she growing up, she uh had
um a bipolar disorder.
She was um manic depressive, um,actually schizophrenic as well.
And so she was in and out of alot of mental institutions and
on a lot of differentantipsychotics.
One time she's on every singleantidepressant that had been out
on the market.
Just a very complicated, youknow, case.
And that's also, you know, thisis like 70s, 80s, 90s.

(13:31):
This is also when mental healthwas just coming on the scene,
you know, because it's really isstill a pretty new industry.
And um, so she was gone a lot.
And so I had a lot of, eventhough I came from a family of
six kids, like I had a lot ofkind of like solitary time to
think and like think aboutmyself and you know, the world
that I wanted to live in and howI wanted what I wanted to do.
And so I brokered a deal with mydad.

(13:53):
And so I said, Hey, um, youknow, I really don't want to go
to church.
And he was like, Okay, well, Idon't care if you don't go to
church as long as you're goingto some church.
So if you can make a commitmentto go to some sort of church on
a Sunday, it doesn't have to beLDS.
And so and I had quite a fewfriends that weren't LDS.
And so uh, you know, I went andit gave me a really great

(14:13):
experience to go to a Protestantchurch, go to a Catholic church,
um, you know, go to a Baptist,go even went to a synagogue, you
know, and so that was kind offun to just at that age be open
up to all these different typesof spirituality and religion,
but none of it really resonatedwith me.

SPEAKER_02 (14:28):
So a real modern-day Joseph Smith.

SPEAKER_00 (14:33):
Well, so I how how I solved the problem next was I
got a job.
So so at like age 13, I got ajob uh that that at a movie
theater working on Sundays.
So there was which movietheater?
Um it was at Charlie Square,it's no longer there.
Yeah, but at Charlie's CharlieSquare.
Cool.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that was kind of fun.
But but yeah, I just I alwaysknew that I was an outsider.
I always knew that I just didn'tfit in.

(14:54):
And slug really was kind of likea vehicle as a young person to
help me kind of um, I guess,come up with a vernacular for
that.

SPEAKER_02 (15:02):
Yeah.
I mean, because especially ifyou're so used to this, I mean,
there's like parts of your lifeat the time, which I imagine are
very uh predictable, like I meanthe religious structure, the
conservative nature, but thenyou also have this like opposite
end of the spectrum of thischaotic agent of your mother,
which can be she's there, she'snot there, she's I mean, having
a manic episode, she's nothaving a manic episode.

(15:23):
Yeah.
And so to be able to say likehave another anchor outside of
that that you don't even know.
Because again, it's like at thetime where the only things you
can really embrace are thecommunity that you have, which
would at that time be yourfamily religion, but be because
you're so physically separatedfrom other things, it's not like
you can just go walk around theneighborhood.
Yes.
To go interact with thepopulation around you until you
have this thing that's almostlike this gateway into this

(15:45):
other world that you don't evenunderstand.

SPEAKER_00 (15:47):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (15:48):
But then being able to understand that and then have
um have that open up yourperspective.
Because again, like today it'sso easy for people to be like,
Oh, cool, I can search whateveron TikTok, I can open up
Instagram and the algorithm belike, oh, this is what we think
you want or need, which is awhole nother topic.

SPEAKER_00 (16:01):
Right.
Or you can connect with thecommunity digitally so easily.
Yeah, and when you couldn'treally do that yet.
Yeah, it's just kind of isn'tthat weird to think about life
pre pre-social media,pre-internet, you know, all of
that.

SPEAKER_02 (16:11):
Like I'm old enough that I'd know that it existed,
but I'm not like I watch, forexample, I watch Friends, I
think I watched all the waythrough, like almost 10 years
ago, which is a wild number tosay.
But anyway, like it was weird tobe like see how many times they
opened up the newspaper and tobe like, like there's movies,
there's there's comics, there'sI mean sports, news, like all

(16:32):
these things.
I'm like, oh, but now there'slike an app for each and every
single one of those.
Yeah.
And so just even just likethinking about like that like
part of things, it's it it'slike I know it happened, but
sometimes I forget that it didor like remember what that was
like.
Yeah.
But so so you're working in amovie theater, you're having
more exposure downtown, youunderstand slug.
I mean, what was that next kindof phase of like quote Rosarian

(16:54):
or finding like that path forthe city?

SPEAKER_00 (16:55):
Well, so then, you know, kind of the isolation,
having a job.
Um, when I turned 16, I was ableto um purchase a car, and then I
was able to use that as leverageto switch school districts
because I wanted to get downtownto the city, right?
So I switched to East High.
And so what you're talking aboutwith those school districts and
the closure of South High, yeah,that's when they started, when I

(17:17):
was going to East, they startedbossing all the kids up from the
west side, which was actuallyreally wonderful because it
added a lot of diversity.

SPEAKER_03 (17:23):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (17:24):
And it did bring in more of that kind of like big
city um atmosphere that I waslooking for, uh, which, you
know, um in a salt lake version.
But, you know, on my first dayof school, ninth grade, um, I
think one of the coaches wasshot by some gang violence, you
know, out on the field, likeshot in his leg.
Um so it was, it was definitelyvery different in the suburban

(17:44):
um, you know, kind of likeschooling that I was in before.
But it was, but it was it wasalso exciting.
It was, it was um, it was a funplace to to really go to school
with in the sense that uh I wasjust close to downtown.
And then I got involved inconcurrent enrollment at Salt
Community College, so I couldleave high school half day and
go to college and hang out withum more adult-oriented,

(18:06):
career-oriented, you know, findthe artists, find people that
were really excited about umcreating.
And that was so fun.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (18:15):
Yeah.
I mean, especially to just haveyour like horizon broaden and
broaden even more.
Like, because I went, I went toEast as well.
Oh, nice.
And like I didn't realize untilafter of how because I remember
when I went there, it like onthe website was like the most
diverse school in Utah.
And I like didn't reallyunderstand what that meant until
I really sat with it.
But I was like, oh, we have likeall of these Bosnian refugees,
which is another whole topic ofhow that happened.

(18:37):
And then we had all these likeAfrican refugees.
We had, I mean, Federal Heights,Yellcrest, area, foothill, some
of the richest kids in thevalley.
But then you have everybody fromGlendale, uh like all the
Tongans, the Hispanic kidsgetting bust for over there.
So like I didn't even understandhow much that opened for me.
But even then, I was still justlike blinders up and only really
interacted with my friends.
And even at East, like there's awhole I don't know if it's

(18:59):
still, I mean, I assume it does.
Things never change like that,but like the hierarchy of like
classes, but then also like likeyou don't really notice like the
race and like class part ofthings until you take it.
Like someone like oh there's aFacebook post that someone
posted, like this gotta besomewhere around 10 years ago.
But they're like, I'm gonna callit out for what it is.
Like, if you were a white kid atEast, that's where you sat.
If you're a senior, if you're ajunior, if you're a sophomore,

(19:20):
if you're a freshman.
If you're not white, then yousit down on the floor with
everybody else.
And if you're like, and I waslike, Oh my god, like I didn't
even realize of course I didn'trealize it was Guy Gunn.
I was a 16, 17, 18-year-oldidiot.

SPEAKER_03 (19:30):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (19:30):
But it's like those things you don't even realize
that were going on at that time.
Sure.
But thankfully, like I wassomeone in like I like what you
were saying, how you always feltlike you always felt like the
outsider wanted to be theoutsider and connected with all
of these things that were kindof like pulled you more and more
away from the core that youknew.
Whether that be your familyunit, like the the the school

(19:51):
you're supposed to go to.
And then even then you're like,I'm gonna go do concurrent
enrollment, I'm gonna go findeverybody else.
Yeah, like I was almost theopposite in that I found myself
partially in every single group.
Cause like I was a kid who like,I mean, I played aid lacrosse
the entire school year.
So I would hang out with, Imean, like the quote like jock
kids, and I've lived inYellowcrest with my um, and
like, and so I like had myfriends that are all come from

(20:11):
like very wealthy families, butthen I also would like go like
smoke weed with all like theskater we can like punk kids,
and we would go do that.
And then I was also in like theschool play every year, so I'd
always go be with like theThespian kids, yeah.
And so like I was always thisperson who could kind of relate
and sit down and talk andinteract and feel home with so
many people, and like even in mylife, I've always felt like a
lone wolf because of that.
Cause like I've always had likepeople, but never had like a

(20:33):
tribe, so to speak.
Like, I've never had like a coregroup that's like this is my
people.
It's like, ah, you're gonnayou're all my people, you know?

SPEAKER_00 (20:39):
Yeah, you can fit in with anyone, but at the same
time, you're still a lone wolf.

SPEAKER_02 (20:42):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 (20:43):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (20:43):
And like it didn't, I mean, I didn't even put all of
that together until years oftherapy and being like, oh, this
is a habit.
And like I never felt really, Idon't want to say comfortable at
home, but I never wanted to behome.
Yeah, it's like even when likewhen I was really young, my my
mom before she got divorced fromher first husband, family like
was just kind of chaotic.
And I I didn't recognize itthen, but there's just like an

(21:03):
energy I didn't want to bearound.
So I'd either go across thestreet to the Jewish family
where they had like twocomputers they played game video
games on and like every videogame system possible.
So I'm like, yeah, I'm goingover there.
Yeah.
Or I'd go bike around the skullde sack and the German family up
the street.
Or anyway, like I would justalways want to get away.
And then when I moved down tokind of like Yellcrest area, I'd
always kind of have like a bestfriend that I'd like just go
over to their house every dayafter school and we'd hang out.

(21:25):
That's what it was.
Maybe go home for dinner, maybedinner there.
But I didn't like realize thishabit of just being like, Oh, I
just really want to be home.
Because even when I was there,my oldest sister was a senior in
high school.
My next oldest sister was afreshman in high school.
My mom was a single mom tryingto like make everything work out
for us and give us the best lifepossible.
So I just found myself homealone a lot.

SPEAKER_00 (21:42):
There's so much mad respect for single moms.
Oh my gosh.
Like my husband sometimestravels, and so I'll be a single
mom for a night or a week, oryou know, I'm just like, oh my
God, how do they do it?

SPEAKER_02 (21:54):
Totally.
And it's wild because like evenwhen I was a kid, like I didn't
I mean, again, you're only asaware as you can be aware.
And so I was a pain in the assfor my mother.
I'll be the first to say it.
But then as I see friends ofmine who are now single mothers,
family of mine who are singlemothers, I'm like, I don't know.
Like I can barely take care ofmy own world.

SPEAKER_00 (22:13):
Right.
Well, and how many siblings didyou have?

SPEAKER_02 (22:15):
So I have two older sisters and then three older
stepbrothers and an olderstepbrother.

SPEAKER_00 (22:19):
So how when she was a single mom, how many kids was
she responsible for?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (22:22):
So three.
So yeah, and I would the so whenthey first got divorced, I was
10.
Yeah, like 10, 14, 17, likeusing rough.

SPEAKER_00 (22:28):
Right.
And she was probably workingfull time.

SPEAKER_02 (22:30):
Yeah, she working full-time, and then was taking
uh I think at least she so she'sa pediatrician, so at least had
like a great career.
Yeah.
But even at the same time, likeshe still had to take extra
shifts at like the New More ICUat and primary children's, which
I remember I would always go.
Cause it was like you got yourlittle hotel room and the TV,
and I'd get a chocolate donut inthe morning on the way out.

SPEAKER_00 (22:46):
Oh, that's cute.

SPEAKER_02 (22:47):
Loved it.
But now I like looking like youliked sitting in a hotel, like
in a hospital overnight, likepsycho.
Um but but yeah, in in likethat, because that was like the
world I found myself in.
And then in even more so inthat, like the biggest thing I
ever did, probably mostconsistently in my life
throughout my youth, was likerollerblading.
And I'd always like, again, I'dbe the kid down.
You were a fruit booter.
I was.
Yeah.

(23:08):
And I would like would alwaysfind myself like so around
downtown trying to find spots orlike with like this different
population that I was everintroduced to.
And because like I just feltdrawn to that.
Like I didn't want to go tochurch every Sunday.
I didn't want to be part of thislike perfect, polished thing.
I wanted, I was like, show methe underground, show me the
rough, show me, show meeverything else.

(23:28):
So I I can definitely understandlike that draw to it.
But so you're so you're at EastHigh School, you're doing all
these concurrent classes, and Imean, is that because I know
that there's like a piece offinding photography in all of
this, which is how you got intoslug.
I mean, where did you find thiscreative outlet?

SPEAKER_00 (23:42):
Well, I've always been into photography, and I
mean, there's actually thisreally cute family portrait of
myself and two of my siblings.
And um, I'm three in the photoand I'm holding a little toy
camera.
Like I always loved, I was justdrawn to photography always as a
kid.
And my dad would let me borrowhis camera sometimes and like,
you know, slide me a roll offilm and let me shoot it and
then go process it for me.

(24:03):
But you know, that was prettyexpensive.
So I didn't have access to thatall the time.
So that when it was an electivein high school, you know, jumped
for that opportunity.
And in fact, um the uh thephotography teacher there, Mrs.
Frascotti, she was awesome.
She actually was also like um alesbian too, which was super
cool.
Um, because you know, this is inthe 90s, you know.
So there was a it was not a lotof people were out.

(24:26):
And she was, she wasn't likefully screaming out, but she was
pretty out.
Um, and she was really kind andshe she kind of saw that I had a
talent for it and a knack for itand that I loved it.
And she would let me come intomy lunch hour and print in the
dark room and process my film.
She would even like kind of liketurn her head if I skipped
class.
And but I mean, I was a straightA student and I was in like

(24:47):
honors classes and stuff likethat.
But and so um, so yeah, so shewas always supportive, which was
great.
And then when I was able to godown to the Select Community
College half day and just spenttime learning from the team down
there, which they had a greatteam, better than the University
of Utah is actually ironically.
Um that just really did leapsand bounds for my skills and my

(25:08):
career.
And then and I just, you know, jjust was so excited to learn.
Just couldn't couldn't learnenough, just would soak it all
up.

SPEAKER_02 (25:14):
And talk to me about how you draw drew these two dots
of you have this passion forphotography, you've had this
data point or points of slugmagazine, and at what point did
these two worlds?

SPEAKER_00 (25:24):
Sure.
Well, I was also the editor ofour literary arts magazine at um
East High.
Okay.
And I loved to write.
I was a good writer.
Um, and then I loved music too.
So I was obsessed with music.
And I got a job at music retailat this pretty cool record store
called Modified Music.
And it was on the ninth andninth corridor.

(25:44):
And it was a music thatspecialized in importing in CDs.
Um, and you know, at the time,you know, this pre-Napster,
pre-Spotify, all of that, uh, itwas really hard to get a lot of
really obscure, interestingmusic.
You had to have it have it likeimported in, right?
And it was really expensive too.
It was like$25,$30 to get a CD,you know, back in like the 90s.

(26:06):
And so uh I was a customer ofthis place and made it a goal to
get a job there, got a jobthere, which was really awesome.
Um, and then I also startedworking for um a c uh for a
represent I was represented fora record company for Mammoth
Records.
So uh and so I was their theirUtah rep doing that.
Um and so then as I kind of likeleft East High School and kind

(26:28):
of merged into the workforce,working music retail, working
for record companies, uhshooting um local bands on the
side for extra cash, and thenalso uh doing getting into
journalism.
Um, it was so fun because it itreally when I was able to shoot
bands and music, I was umcombining my love of music and
photography together.

(26:48):
So that was that was pretty fun.

SPEAKER_02 (26:50):
Cool.
I mean, I always love when likeso one of my friends, he's
Chris, he's one of the guysbehind the Instagram account,
SLC Scoop.
And like he saw that he's like,I want to be involved in music,
but it's like it's like such anambiguous thing to get involved
with because it's like okay,like are you gonna create music?
Are you gonna do a roadie?
Do you want to go like do soundat a a venue or something?

(27:10):
And then so he's like, I'll dophotography.
And it's like then then now fastforward, he's on tour with I
mean Youngboy NBA, one of thebiggest up-and-coming rappers in
the world right now, and it'sjust like, yeah, like create the
world you want to, put the putthe path in front of yourself
and make it happen.

SPEAKER_03 (27:24):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (27:25):
And so I love that you were like able to find these
two things, like, yeah, we'regonna, we're gonna put these
together.
I mean, and especially likethere's always a big aspect of
slug that is music and likemusic so yeah.
Um, like when I think of liketwo local, like quote, brands
that feel very synonymous, it'slike slug and like the heavy
metal shop.
Um, just like feel very likethey I feel like if they had a
con like if the two brands ifthey were personified, hear me

(27:47):
out.
Like they could sit and havecoffee and like they would Oh
yes, love Kevin.

SPEAKER_00 (27:51):
Kevin from the Heavy Metal Shop, dear friend.

SPEAKER_02 (27:53):
Yeah, Kevin is uh I love Kevin.
Like Kevin is so his two boys,Kelly and uh Joey.
So Joey was one of my first bestfriends.
In uh fourth grade, we had thesame teacher, and he actually
going back to rollerblade, andhe's like, Hey, I'm gonna go to
the skate park this weekend andgo rollerblade.
Do you want to come with me?
And for some reason I had likehad gone to play to get in
sports and got my hair.
I was like, I want to do this.

(28:13):
Yes.
And like became one of my bestfriends, and then I moved when
my parents got divorced afterthat, and then it wasn't until
2018 when I get a call from afriend that went to West.
And he's like, Hey man, do youhave a second?
Like, what's up?
He's like, just so you know, Iwant to be the one to tell you.
But Joey was struck by tracks,passed away, and I was like, and

(28:35):
I was living in Seattle at thetime.
I was like, oh my god, likeokay.
All right, like process that.
And then I was like, all right,when I'm in Salt Lake, I'm gonna
go visit and say hi to Kevin.
And then yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like that never happened.
And then fast forward to 2022,early that year is when Angie,
Kevin, his wife passed away fromcancer.
And that's when I was like, nowI have to.

(28:55):
So I went in and I was like, HeyKevin, you probably don't
remember me.
It like took him a secondbecause I was like this slot, I
was a kid.

SPEAKER_00 (29:01):
And everybody changes.

SPEAKER_02 (29:02):
Oh, totally.
And so it was fun that reconnectwith that.
And then I mean once the podcaststarted, like I remember I wrote
down the list of people that Iwanted to have.
It's like my first list.
I was like, Kevin Kirk.

SPEAKER_03 (29:12):
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (29:12):
And then I'll never forget.
I like walk into the store oneday.
I was like, Hey Kevin, like I wetalked a couple years ago again.
But he's like, Yeah, yeah,Joey's old friend Eric.
I'm like, We have you on thepodcast.
And he's like, Yeah, of course.
I love doing stuff like that.
And it was fun to hear just likehis I mean, the story of the
heavy metal shop and how muchhe's done for everything.
And like it's always I likeevery time I walk down the
street and I see someone with aheavy metal shop shirt,

(29:33):
sweatshirt, hat, whatever, I waslike, you get it.

SPEAKER_00 (29:36):
Yeah, totally.
Well, and uh just such a niceguy.
And it's crazy all of thestories like you mentioned that
he's got.
I mean, I was just checking outhis Instagram the other day, and
Alice Cooper, you know, played.
And he was, of course, hangingout with Alice, you know, like
they're like best friends.

SPEAKER_02 (29:50):
Yeah.
Like because in his story, likeAlice Cooper is one of the first
artists, he's like, Oh my gosh,like metal, like this is it.
Yeah.
And then little by little, Alicekeeps coming through town, and
next thing you know, they'relike, like I remember I was
trying to coordinate withsomeone from Live Nation last
year when Alice Cooper was intown.
I was like, Hey, I kind of wantto surprise Kevin with tickets
or do this.
And these are bottom.
They're hanging out all day.

(30:11):
Like that's part of the agenda.
I was like, okay, scratch that.
Um, and so it's it's fun to seehow much like and even just like
all the artists that comethrough are like, yeah, let's go
stop by the heavy metal travel,we'll do a signing, we'll give
them tickets, like just alwayssomething.

SPEAKER_00 (30:22):
Alice even did like a little video when Angie was
really sick, like about Angieand like asking everybody to
pray for her and stuff.
It was really sweet.
Like, yeah, it's pretty special.
That I mean that family.
That family's really special.

SPEAKER_02 (30:35):
Totally.
And they've gone througheverything.
If you're curious, go listen tothe episode, people.
Um good.

SPEAKER_00 (30:40):
Which episode number is it?
First season.

SPEAKER_02 (30:44):
Well, yeah, for season one.
It's in season one somewhere.
Somewhere between episode 20 and80.
We'll link it in the episode.
Yeah, we'll link in bio.
Um so cool.
So you're so involved in themusic community.
You get the job at the place youwanted to.

SPEAKER_00 (30:55):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (30:55):
So uh when did Slug come into the picture?

SPEAKER_00 (30:58):
Yeah.
So and of course, you know, Slugmagazine was carried there, we'd
read it and stuff like that.
And then um, then I left MonaFide and started working for a
record store across across theblock, still on the ninth and
ninth, called Salt City CDs.
And uh and Mona Fide had moveddown.
They so they'd sold sold theirownership from the original
person I worked with, and they'dmoved locations, and so they

(31:21):
moved further down, kind ofwhere the Maven district is now.
Got it.
And um and we're that justchanged the whole vibe of the
store, and so it just wasn't asfun.
So and so um so I ended upworking at Salt City CDs and uh
back on the ninth and ninthblock and And um Gianni, who was
the second owner of Slugmagazine, he c he would come in
as a regular customer.
He was really good friends withthe owners.

(31:42):
He would advertise with them.
And so I got to know him throughthere.
And then he found out that I wasa photographer.
And so he hired me to shoot acover of Slug.

SPEAKER_02 (31:50):
And um full circle moment.

SPEAKER_00 (31:53):
Yeah, it was so fun.
It was it was really and so hegot to know me through that and
then he pitched me on becominghis managing editor.
And because he found out, oh,she can write, she can, she
knows a lot about music, uh, shecan take photos.
That's like everything that Ineed in a managed editor.
And that was, you know, backwhen Slug was like Gianni and
one other person.
And then of course we've alwayshad um a list of volunteers and

(32:13):
contributors, you know, membersof the community that have
helped in that way.
But Slug was very, very tiny,very small, um, you know, like a
two-color just print rag, youknow, with like a distribution
of, I don't know, 3,000 orsomething like that.

SPEAKER_02 (32:27):
Yeah.
So you become number three.

SPEAKER_00 (32:29):
Yeah.
So I'm number three.
Yeah.
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (32:31):
And so you do that.
And then, I mean, shortlythereafter, they're like, hey,
how about you just take it andrun with it?

SPEAKER_00 (32:38):
Yeah.
So so I worked for Gianni fortwo years.
And meanwhile, working for him,because I was working for him, I
was still going to school, um,got my degree with an associate
of applied science and anemphasis of photography.
And my plan at that point wasto, they had a program where you
could test into the master'sprogram at this university that
I don't even think is aroundanymore, but it was called
Brooks University.

(32:59):
And this is like 99 orsomething, right?
Um, and you could test in totheir program and get a master's
in photography in a year.
And so that was my my route waslike, okay, I'm gonna get the
hell out of so like I'm eithergonna go to the Brooks and get
my degree there, or I'm gonnatake the other track, which I'd
also been simultaneouslyworking.
It's like which one of thesepans out first?
Um, I was working for universalmusic and video distribution as

(33:21):
a college rep.
And so I got to work like thefirst MM record, I gotta work
like the first Gwen Stefani soloalbum.
Like, I gotta work tons and tonsof like major labeled big pop
albums, which was super fun.
Um, and some more undergroundstuff like Few Man 2 and some
other cool stuff.
But um, so I was on track forpromotion with them to get moved
out to San Francisco.
And so I was like, okay, or I'mgonna do that, and then I'll

(33:43):
just get to their corporateoffice, I'll be out of cell,
like in the big city.
And then, you know, I can alsowork I can work my photography
career.
And my my kind of goal was tobecome a label photographer, so
which was a pretty cool highprofile position back then when
the music industry wasdifferent.
And so they would have theselabel photographers and you
would shoot all of the all theirall their bands.

(34:04):
Um, but I was gonna, but the thetrack that I was on promotion
for was called an artistdevelopment representative.
And so I would do all themarketing campaigns for the new
signs, so sort of for like thebrand new artists, I'd get to
work with them and work on theirmarketing campaigns.
So I got that promotion.
They called me up, they're like,all right, you got the
promotion.
Um, so I so I went into Gianniat slug and I was like, hey,

(34:27):
this is my 30-day notice.
30 days I'm moving to SanFrancisco and accept this job.
And uh he was like, Don't dothat.
Like, just take over themagazine.
You've already been running it.
Like, I wanna, I wanna, youknow, I'm not really inter
interested in doing it anylonger.
Yeah, just buy me out.
And I was like, uh, I don'tthink I want to do this.
Like, I I really want to moveout of state.

(34:47):
And he's like, Well, well, justpromise me you're gonna take the
weekend and think about it.
And I was like, Okay, Giada,think about over the weekend.
And so I had already set up alike a lunch appointment with my
dad the next day.
He and I were super close.
He was an entrepreneur, and totell him that I was gonna take
the job and move to SanFrancisco.
So that was Saturday.

(35:07):
We meet up for lunch, and um,I'd also received, I also told
uh the CD store that I wasleaving Salt City Cities, and
they're like, no, like stay fulltime with us, like we'll give
you health benefits, um, whichto work at a record store and
get health benefits.
And they actually paid really,really well.
But I was like, no, I know I'vebeen doing music retail, I know
I don't want to do that.
So I um was talking to my dad atlunch, and I was like, hey, this

(35:28):
is I have some really excitingnews.
I'm gonna move to San Francisco.
You know, I've been working onyou know a goal of getting out
of out of Utah.
Um, I'm gonna do it in about amonth.
You know, they said that I canmove in 30 days, they're gonna
help, you know, with costs andstuff like that.
I'll just have to find a place.
And then he was like, Well, letme tell you something.
And I was like, Okay, what's up?
And he was like, uh, I've gotthis family secret that I

(35:51):
haven't known how to tellanyone.
And but hearing that you'releaving, you need to know.
And I and I was like, Okay.
Um, and he said, I have terminalcancer.
And I was like, Oh, okay, allright.
And he had really been afraid totell anybody because, you know,
as I mentioned, my mom wasbipolar schizophrenic and he was
her guardian.
And, you know, she needed a lotof extra support and care and

(36:12):
wouldn't need to be able to doit.

SPEAKER_02 (36:13):
He's probably got to be the backbone of that holds
everything together.

SPEAKER_00 (36:15):
Yeah, he was.
And so he just didn't, he knewthat you know, that was just
gonna like shatter the familydynamic.
And so he was like, So if you'releaving, you need to know that.
And I was like, All right, thatslideswise my decision.
Well, I have this otheropportunity to do this.
So I'm gonna stay.
I'm gonna take over Slugmagazine.
I'm gonna help transition youand I'm gonna take over and be

(36:37):
mom's guardian.
And so that's what I did.
And so he was with us for aboutanother two years and I helped
transition him, which wasbeautiful, but also the hardest
thing, you know.
Cancer, I like to say, is umit's a blessing and you know,
it's it's it's the greatest giftbecause you get time to say
goodbye, but you it's alsoterrible, of course, because you
see people wither, you know,right right in front of your

(36:59):
eyes, but at least you get tosay goodbye and have that time
to like tell them everythingthat you want and tell them how
much you love them and and showthat love through helping them,
you know.
So I gotta do that, which waswhich was very special.
And then I also became anentrepreneur and uh became a
business owner, you know, didn'tknow what the hell I was doing.

SPEAKER_01 (37:17):
Uh as we do when we start our own business.

SPEAKER_00 (37:21):
Exactly, which you know is kind of part of the
process.
Like if you knew, if you kneweverything, you probably would
never do it, you know.
So that was so that was great.
And um, and I was like, okay,well, if I'm gonna if I'm I'm
gonna make a five-yearcommitment, um, all of the other
owners of Slug have done it forfive years.
I'm gonna make that samefive-year commitment, and then
I'm gonna get out of dots,right?
So, so then after five years of,you know, building this

(37:44):
business, I was working um twoother jobs on the site.
I still stayed a college rep.
You know, my boss loved me somuch that they were like, okay,
you can still stay stay on forthis.
And they they even gave me someflexibility um because I needed
the money because I couldn'tafford for the loan payments for
pay buying off the magazine andum to put to pay myself and pay
other people.
So so I worked that job.

(38:05):
And then I also worked for aphotographer um printing prints
in his dark room at night.
So I would uh I wouldessentially get up, do a couple
hours of universal music andvideo distribution work because
I had a home office, and then Iwould go to my slug office and
go work there and crank tillabout eight o'clock at night.
And then I would go over to umBrett Colvin's dark room and I

(38:27):
would go in the back.
And he he had this otherphotographer named Sean that was
there.
And I'd I would print for himfor like five or six hours at
night, and I'd leave all theprints for him.
So when he came into the studiothe next day, they were all
ready for his clients.
And then I'd just do that overagain.
And um, and so and I could onlyafford to pay one other person
part-time for like 20 hours aweek.
So I was the delivery driver, Iwas the photographer, I was the

(38:49):
editor, I was the secretary, youknow, kind of like doing it all.
Um, and it was a lot of fun.
I learned so much.
I worked so hard when all of myfriends were out, you know,
being 22, 23.

SPEAKER_02 (39:02):
Um, I'm grinding all day every day.

SPEAKER_00 (39:06):
Yeah, totally, totally.
Um, but again, it was such arewarding experience.
I learned so much.
And then of course, you know,that was um then also before
that I would my father was kindof baked into that plan too.
And um, but yeah, it was a lotof I learned I learned so much.

SPEAKER_02 (39:20):
Yeah.
I mean, as you do when you do alot and learn a lot, it you look
back and you don't understandall the growth.
But I mean, what a crazy liketurn of events from for sake of
the conversation.
And say you talk to your boss onFriday being like, All right,
dreams are coming true.
I'm going west, going to SanFrancisco, I'm gonna go live my
dream, to like 24 hours later,being like, just kidding, I'm

(39:41):
staying here and I'm taking careof my father.

SPEAKER_00 (39:43):
Totally, totally.
And well, and then, you know,after he'd passed and after it'd
been that five-year term whereit's like, okay, I made my goal,
I lasted five years.
I was finally being profitable.
I could finally hire on someother team members.
You know, I think I had umanother editor, another
part-time editor, and like adelivery person.
She got me that sales person.
Exactly, I could finallybreathe.
And so I was like, okay, I couldsell right now and get out.

(40:06):
But honestly, like I'm kind ofhaving fun now.
Um, now that I know what I'mdoing a little bit more and I'm
making some money.
I mean, not a lot of money, butbut making it work, right?
And so so I was like, okay, I'mnot gonna sell yet.
And then a couple years later, Idecided to start Kraft Lake
City, which is our nonprofit.
Um, so I run Slug magazine,which is a for-profit, and then

(40:28):
they have what we call oursister company, which is Craft
Lake City.
Yes.
And so that was started um justtwo years later.
So I was seven years in and thendecided to start another
company.
And so, and then I met and thenof course, you know, you know, I
was dating my partner too.
And um, so we just have kind ofdecided to stay.

SPEAKER_02 (40:44):
Dang.
So talk to me about well,actually let's let's before we
go to Craft Lake City, let'slet's finish up with slugs.
So I mean, from when you tookthe realm, I mean 2099, whenever
that was.
I mean, talk to me about all oflike the milestones that you've
helped grow it and that to fromwhere it is today to where it is
today.

SPEAKER_00 (41:00):
Right.
Well, you know, when I made thatcommitment to stay, Salt Lake
City was a completely differentplace.

SPEAKER_02 (41:06):
Oh my god, it's like pre-Olympics, pre, I mean,
everything.
Everything you look at in SaltLake today that's relevant
before that.

SPEAKER_00 (41:12):
And there was nothing happening.

SPEAKER_02 (41:14):
I mean, there was, you know, that's one thing
people don't realize.
Like I didn't even realize thisuntil I was having a
conversation here at EdisonHouse with someone who he's got
to be in his like probably likemid 50s, but was talking about
like, oh, Salt Lake up andgoing, he's like, yo, the 80s
and 90s kind of sucked.
There was a lot of boarded uphouses and not a lot of economic
growth, and it just wasn't agreat place.
It's true.
And like a lot of people, likethere was a uh reel I posted

(41:36):
about here's what happenedhere's what the Olympics brought
in in 2002.

SPEAKER_03 (41:40):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (41:40):
What are we what's gonna happen before 2034?
And so many people are like, oh,that's when everything was
ruined, corporate things camein, which like not wrong.

SPEAKER_03 (41:48):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (41:48):
But also you would not have the salt like you do
today without it.
It would not be anything.
It would be like a I mean, Renowould be a shinier star on the
map that's right.

SPEAKER_00 (41:57):
Although although, you know, 9-11 happened right
before the Olympics too.

SPEAKER_02 (42:00):
True, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (42:01):
So that did change and that slowed a lot of
probably what would havehappened.
Um, because you know, that thatum population growth never came
with the Olympics, you know,like as far as all the
attendees.
And um, I mean, of course,things were still sold out,
events were sold out, there werestill people that came, but it
was not what everyone expectedit to be.

(42:21):
And I think that's what's kindof cool about this second time
is it's kind of like, you know,all every all of the the state
leaders, all of the cityleaders, all of the people back
then that had worked so hard forthe Olympics in 2002 can now
maybe see if they can revitalizethat the second time.
But but no, because 9-11happened right before, you know,
because the Olympics happened inwhat was it, January?

SPEAKER_02 (42:41):
Yeah, it was being yeah, January, February 2002.
And now I mean 9-11, 2001.

SPEAKER_00 (42:46):
Yep.
Well, and I and in Slug too, wehad invested a bunch of money
into like this glossy cover ofthe magazine for that month
because we were gonna, you know,we're trying to sell and trying
to bring in national companiesto buy and and also how could we
monetize the Olympics coming intoo?
And um, yeah, none of that a lotof that corporate money didn't
really come in.
Some did, but not as much aswhat everybody thought because

(43:07):
everybody was so scared.
I mean, there were, you know, ummilitary uh individuals with
M16s on on the blocks, on thecorners of all the blocks and um
at the airport, and you know, itfelt like you were in Israel or
something for a minute.
It was kind of weird.

SPEAKER_02 (43:21):
Yeah, I forgot about that side of things.

SPEAKER_00 (43:22):
Yeah, so but but anyway, long story short.
Yeah, uh, but yes, but yeah, soSalt Lake was very different.
Um, you know, there weren'tthere's so many wonderful events
happening all the time now.
I mean, we were recording thisat Edison House, you know.
Oh my goodness, Alta Club wasthe only thing that was even
close to, you know, some sort ofum cool private club.
But uh, and even then, when theyjust didn't even let women in

(43:44):
until what the 80s?
I mean, crazy.
But uh, but yeah, so so that wasso it was really my commit that
I was like, okay, if I'm gonnastay in Salt Lake City, you
know, I'm gonna make this placethe place that I want to live.
You know, I'm gonna do whateverI can to make it interesting,
unique, diverse, cool, to upliftall the outsiders, to make
people that that like myselfthat feel like they don't belong

(44:05):
here belong.
And so that's really become kindof like my life's work, my
life's mission with SlugMagazine and also with Craft
Lake City is to really just makeSalt Lake City more interesting,
more unique, and to highlightthe weirdos, the artists, the
creatives, um, you know, theindividuals, LGBTQ, you know,

(44:26):
um, people from otherorganizations, other uh cultural
backgrounds that just feel likethey don't belong here in Salt
Lake, hey, you belong.
And uh let's let's make somespaces where we can all get
together and highlight eachother and amplify each other and
uh and yeah, just make it abetter, better place to be.

SPEAKER_02 (44:44):
Yeah.
No, I agree.
And that's like why I love SaltLake, because like when you look
at Utah as a whole, you're like,okay, like very conservative,
very religious place.
But then you have this dot ofSalt Lake, which is tends to be
the antithesis of it all, whichis where I why I get so drawn to
Salt Lake.
I like spending so much timedowntown and around it all
because that's where that energycomes from.
And that's why I like go toevery concert that I can and go

(45:06):
to all the events that I can,because I do like seeing that
side of things.
Like, give me give me the roomwith the people with where half
of people have a sleeve, there'sI mean, colored hair everywhere,
and then and just like that'sthat's where I'd rather be than
with, I mean, a bunch of blonde,fake hair, blue eyes, and uh
that side of well, and you know,and that's cool too if that
makes you happy, you know.

SPEAKER_00 (45:24):
But and I think that that's kind of what's so cool
about Salt Lake now is you know,salt slug stands for Salt Lake
Underground.
Um, but the underground withtechnology and with access has
really blown up.
And also what I mean by that isthat you don't Salt Lakers love
to rebel and we love to take itreally seriously, but we don't

(45:46):
have to as much now becausesociety has really opened up and
you know, you can walk down thestreet with blue hair and it's
not a big deal.
Versus 20 years ago was a bigdeal, you know.
And I think that's reallyimportant.
I think that's exciting that umunderground culture can be kind
of like popularized.

SPEAKER_02 (46:03):
Yeah, it's like underground at one point became
not underground.

SPEAKER_00 (46:08):
Yes.
I mean, uh and it's we talkabout I talk about this
sometimes with my team, youknow, um, who were half my age,
right?
And uh and you know, aboutmusic, for instance, we just
this like magazine justpublished a review of the new
Taylor Swift album and some ofour old school, because we've
been around for 37 years, wehave a nice mix of old schoolers
like myself, you're even olderthan I.
Um, and then of course, youknow, the young, younger coming

(46:29):
up generation that are reallyexcited about what we do too,
and it's a beautiful thing.
But there was this clash, youknow, on our post about, you
know, the old schoolers beinglike, that's not underground,
like, you know, Taylor Swiftsucks and all this kind of
stuff.
And then of course, you know,the writer who wrote it, it was
this incredible review, writtenso well, who's such a big Taylor
Swift fan.
And it's like, hey, there's aspace now where pop music can be

(46:50):
kind of cool and it's okay.
Versus back then you really hadto prove yourself by like, um,
there had to be a hard linebetween um, you know, like the
punks only like punk music, theycan't like muddle, you know.
And uh, if you look at someone,you could tell exactly what kind
of music that they looked onbased on their dress.
You know, that's all out thewindow now.

(47:10):
And I think it's beautiful.
I think it's a beautiful thing.
It just kind of makes us um Iguess I think it is uh it it
allows us to get along in newways and to accept each other in
new ways and not judge eachother.

SPEAKER_02 (47:23):
Yeah.
And I think, and like I'llalways be a fan of music because
I think that's I mean, music isone of the few things where it's
all of us together.
And so there's no us versusthem.
There is no competitive naturebehind it.
And even just thinking about thelast two or three weeks of shows
I've been to.
I mean, I was just last weekendat Red West watching let's see
the country music the.
Oh, with it.
It was so fun.
Like, I love putting on bootsand a hat and just like ringing

(47:46):
into it.
And like, it wasn't until lastyear when I went the first year,
where because I was like, I'mnot like I would never sit say
I'm like a huge country musicfan, but that fest was the first
time I was like, hey, we're justgonna three days just rapid fire
all these things.
So I was like, oh wait, I don'thate all country music.
I just really don't like this,but I like this.
This is fine, this is good, andso it's fun to have that.

(48:07):
But then also like uh the Mondaybefore that, I was at a sleep
token concert, so like listeningon metal, and then I was like at
like a rave before that.
So it's just like all of theselike experiences I get to have,
and I'm grateful that I do, andlike thankfully, like the
podcast has opened up a lot ofthose doors for me where we can
do that.
Where now, like to your point,it used to be like, oh no, no, I
I am this and that's all I canbe.

(48:27):
Exactly.
These lines, like these hardlines are now these gray areas
that we can all explore.

SPEAKER_00 (48:32):
I mean, the punks and the cowboys hated each
other, they beat each other up,yeah, you know, and now you know
it's like this club.

SPEAKER_02 (48:38):
Like that's how that used to be is like all these
hard lines and yeah, anddifferent lunch tables, and now
it's like, oh yeah, yeah, likewe all kind of get along more so
and that those gray areas arethere, which is good because it
like allows so much more spacefor people to interact with each
other in different areas andunderstand people more.
And then exactly.
And social media and internethas helped a lot with that and
created like this unifyingvoice.
And then I mean, devil'sadvocate on that, like it also

(49:01):
is as we've seen, divided peoplemore.

SPEAKER_00 (49:02):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (49:03):
Um, but then that's again why I like music because
it can like help bring peoplethere.

SPEAKER_00 (49:07):
Yeah, and give you that freedom to explore who you
are and what you like and don'tlike and it's so cool.

SPEAKER_02 (49:12):
And I love that you've seen this whole journey
through it all because I mean,you've seen, I mean, even just
thinking about being broadtrends from pre-9-11 to now,
it's like, oh, you see, I mean,cell phones in their inception
start to become popularized andemail, and then all of a sudden
smartphones and social media,internet and e-commerce.

SPEAKER_00 (49:30):
So when I first got hired at Slug, I got a pager.
Isn't that funny?
It's so funny.
Yeah.
Yeah, I got a pager.
And so Gianni would page be whenyou like needed to ask me
questions and stuff.
It was so weird.

SPEAKER_02 (49:40):
Go to a payphone, call and collect, what's up?

SPEAKER_00 (49:43):
Totally, totally so funny.
So, yeah, I mean that really istrue.

SPEAKER_02 (49:47):
So, how many just for like sake of showing how
much it's changed since youstarted, I mean, alone with a
person who could barely paypart-time?
I mean, what does the team looklike now?

SPEAKER_00 (49:55):
And oh yeah, our team's wonderful now.
So we've got 25 delivery driversthat work part-time for us.
So they make sure the mag getsall over the state.
Uh, we've got 10 full-timeemployees.
Um, and then we've got over ahundred volunteers.
So, and our full-time employeesare you know, editors, they're
uh designers, they are sales uhreps.

(50:18):
Um, and then of course we haveeditorial interns too.
So we've got around two to threeinterns that are part-time in
the office.
So we've we've got a small armyon this like side.
It's wonderful.
It's so fun.

SPEAKER_02 (50:28):
So fun to see because like that's one thing I
love about being like a quoteentrepreneur and like starting
my own thing, which is fun tosee this grow.
But I mean, to the scale thatyou have where you're like, all
right, I gotta have three jobsso I can barely pay off this
debt obligation plus thispart-time guide being like we
now have an army.
And they all I mean, even likethe thought of just having
volunteers, like it baffles me.

(50:49):
Like it's my life.
I really don't have much moreelse to give compared to what I
give to everything right now.
Like all my like I'm kid tappedout.
I wish I could do more, can't.
Love to, but can't and like us.
I always applaud people.
It's like, oh, you have time tovolunteer and you're doing it.
Good.
Like thank you for caring aboutsomething and and wanting to
give back.

SPEAKER_00 (51:07):
Yeah, and we have all different types of
volunteers.
You know, we've people that havebeen volunteering for almost, I
mean, we have a couple peoplethat have been on the team as
long as I have in a volunteercapacity, you know.
Um, and that can look likeanything from them writing one
or two stories a year to beingactive writing something every
month or copy editing everymonth, you know.
But and then of course we havepeople that um are just starting
and you know, maybe it's theirinspiration to become a music

(51:29):
journalist and they have no ideahow to write, you know, and
that's really we shepherd themthrough that process.
And we've had a lot of peoplethat come through our system
that have made great careers outof their skills that they've
learned from being a volunteer.
And so it's it's a wonderfulprogram where we get a shepherd
uh up and coming, but also umwork with people that still have
those skills, but they just wantto do it for fun because they

(51:50):
love it, but they've got likeyou know, a family and a and a
day job that they need, youknow, to support all of that.
And this is like their passion,this is what they get to do when
the kids go to bed, you know.

SPEAKER_02 (52:00):
Love that.
So hard pivot craft lake city,craft Lake City.
So it it like I love this storyof like this being a dynamic in
it because it seems socounterintuitive to everything
else.
So because I just think of likewhen I think of crafting the
word in itself, I think of mygrandmother in her crafting room
in the basement, either makingquilts or putting together

(52:21):
scrapbooks.
Yes, and that seems veryantithetical to what I think of
slug.
So I mean what I mean, I imaginethere was uh some sort of DIY
aspect that you were doing inyour free time, and then all of
a sudden you're like, let's justbring all these people together.

SPEAKER_00 (52:36):
Yeah, well, you know, crafting um it's a nod to
the you know, craft Lake City,then the name.
It's really a nod to our culturehere.
It's a nod to the fabric of um,you know, the LDS community that
I grew up in that has a verycraft, you know, I mean history.
You know, there used to be thisreally cool store called Mormon

(52:57):
Handicraft that was downtown.
Um, and uh there was also areally cool LDS-owned store
called Zim's that had like allthe crafting supplies and it's
really baked into that society.
And but I love that because it'sit's also turning everybody into
making functional devices, intolearning how to be creative,
into coming together andlearning a practice, into

(53:19):
tapping into meditation.
And so there's that whole nod tolike my own personal upbringing
that I think is beautiful.
But simultaneously, you know,there's a huge movement um
nationally about how craft iscool.
And it's kind of like a retromovement, too, because in the
70s, crafting was at its heyday.
Um, you know, macrome, plantholders, um, you know, um

(53:42):
crocheting, um, all differenttypes of things.
And then it went through this,you know, hey, only grandma does
that, right?
And so we decided to bring itback.
And one of the reasons why webrought it back with this cool
factor is not only because it'sgot this nice nod to our own
cultural heritage, but becausefor me as an artist, you know,
one of the things that I haven'tmentioned is that you know, I do

(54:03):
a lot of documentaryphotography.
And I do consider myself anartist.
And I used to exhibit my work,my silver gelatin prints in
galleries when I could or artshows.
And back in Utah in the earlyaughts, mid-aughts, it was
really difficult to get any sortof respect and to get your work
in galleries or to find placeswhere you could sell your work.

(54:25):
I mean, now there's wonderfulmarkets every single day, you
know?
Get on a fish or there's amarket on the weekend, you know,
so cool.
Um, but back then there was noplace for you to get to show
your work.
And people like myself that werecreatives felt like we had to
leave.
Like we had to leave Salt LakeCity to get our work shown.
Um, even with technology comingup, you still felt like there
just wasn't a community thatwould appreciate you.

(54:47):
Well, with all of my work withSlug magazine, working with
local artisans to design covers,you know, for um for the
magazine, or you know, weproduced a local band
compilation series for a numberof years.
So working with visual artistsfor that, or even just me being
a visual artist and very highlyinvolved in the gallery stroll
scene, or even in that scene.
And um, you know, I knew what Istill believe are some of the

(55:11):
most creative, beautiful,incredible talented artists.
And they a lot of them wereleaving.
And so I thought, okay, we needto create a community for
artists where artists can notonly be recognized by the
community they live in, but meeteach other and get to know each
other and can start to form thisfabric where they will stay here

(55:33):
in Salt Lake City.
So that's why I started CraftLake City, which started as a
slug magazine event in 2009.
And so we did the first CraftLake City at the Galovan Center.
And it was a free event and itwas for crafters, makers,
artisans.
But the other thing about it,it's with that term craft, it's
about like blurring the linebetween an artisan and an
artist.
Because artisans are craftmakers, right?

(55:54):
Um, there's a whole process, butreally artists are the same
thing.
They just use different tools,and there's just kind of like a
status quo that is associatedwith exhibiting in a gallery.
And that what is um and youknow, some artists like myself
just never felt comfortableinside of those galleries.
And so with Craft Lake City,it's about taking art back to

(56:15):
the people.
It's about a providing it for anaffordable rate so that anybody
can afford art in their home,because I do believe anybody
should be able to have ahandmade piece on their wall or
that they use every day.
Maybe it's some pottery orsomething like that, right?
Um, and so it's providing theaccess to those artisans,
meanwhile, giving a place forartisans to sell their work and

(56:36):
get recognized by the people.

SPEAKER_02 (56:38):
Yeah.
I mean, I'm a big fan ofeverything, even like and all
the ethos behind it.
Because it's been interesting,like some of the rabbit holes
I've gone down through thepodcast is the the artistic and
creative community.
And even um, oh my gosh, what'sher last name?
Nanette, who runs Salt Lake umart market, who just opened Five
Lemons, like in talking to herabout that, and like the reason

(57:00):
of her starting it was again,like similarly, like there isn't
a place to do this.
I want to create it.
If starting in her house andnow, I mean, she has her own, I
mean, uh, gallery space that'sopen year round.
And like I'm someone who I mean,the five years ago, if you're
asking me like, oh, like, areyou a creative person?
Like, oh, I don't know how topaint, I don't know how to draw,
I don't do this.
But now, like within the lastthree years, like I I started

(57:21):
painting three years ago becauseit was like, again, I had this
like creative itch, but didn'twant to do it.
And a friend gave me a gift forthis like 10-week learn to paint
class, but and like really openup the door because like all the
art classes I took in middleschool and high school, it's
like uh I don't want to try, I'ma snot known as teenager, I'm
out of here.
But then it wasn't until I'mlike, hey, like sit with it, try
it, like really just getwhatever's inside out.

(57:42):
Because again, like the it's thecheesy quote that's been
circulating recently, but likethe opposite of depression is
expression.
And so the more that you have away to express this, get these
feelings that you have out ontosomething, or like it doesn't
have to be an artistic way, butthat it helps so much.
And I remember there was thispainting I have, it's on my wall
now, but it was this apple, itwas like the first real still
life thing we did outside oflike shapes and like blocks.

(58:03):
And I remember I'm painting thisapple, and I'm just like, yeah,
myself, this is so fuckingstupid.
I hate this.
What goddamn it, like I suck atthis, whatever.
And this woman comes behind me,she like just walking on the
class, she's like, Oh, that'sreally good.
And I'm like, Oh, thank you.
But I'm like, you don't knowshit, like go away.
Like, I hate this.
I snap a picture of it, I thinkI put on my story, go about the
rest of my night, and like allof a sudden I like pull it back
up and I'm like, wait a minute,this actually is kind of good.

(58:24):
And it was this, it's this weirdkind of confidence that I found
of like, I mean, like I gotsomething from the podcast, but
this as well of like, oh, I canlearn new things, do new things,
and and find new things inmyself.
Because like one thought I haveevery now and then is like just
using something like like music,like the people who are the best
like guitarists of all time areonly the people who have played

(58:46):
guitar.
And so who hasn't played guitarthat could be or that could be
amazing if they just tried, butagain, like we have these weird
perceptions of our own ego andpersonality that says we can't
do certain exactly whatever thatlike personal identity is.
You know, I was talking to afriend where he's like, Oh, I've
tried like painting, I've triedthis, and it's just not doesn't

(59:06):
really I don't like it at all.
Like, I'm not a creative person.
Like, no, no, no, no.
You haven't found the rightcreative thing.
And there's so many millionthings of different ways you can
do it.
And I've tried to always try newthings for the sake of trying
new things, and like the thecost of being adventurous is
some things don't work out.
The cost of going out and tryinga new restaurant every week is
it's not gonna be a perfectthing.
Something's gonna suck, someyou're not even gonna finish,

(59:28):
but you're gonna find some gemstoo.
And so I've always tried to becurious instead of judgmental
and and try out the things thatI didn't know I have.
Like, even me and my girlfriendAutumn, who you just met, we
were at Target, and there wassome of those like, what are
they, punch, sewing oh punchneedle punch needle things and
all that?
Should we get it while we watcha movie?
And the next thing you aresaying, I'm like, this is
actually kind of fun.
I get this.

(59:48):
And so, like, again, like wehave like these beliefs in
ourselves that we can't do it.
And I love challenging whenevermy brain tells me, like, oh,
that's not you, I'm like, ohcontraire, we are about to find
it could be you.
Yeah.
And so I love that you'vecreated this space for people
to, I mean, a give them aplatform, space, place, um,
everything in between if they dowant to have an accessible way
to sell, purchase, create amarket for it.

(01:00:11):
But then also, I mean, again,like the more people that see
that and experience thatinspires them on their own
creative journey as well.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:17):
Yes.
And you know, and that's why westarted our monthly workshop
series back in 2012.
So that was next to the festivalthat was um which which Craft
Lake City was bootstrapped.
We were seven years we ran thatorg with a hundred percent
volunteers, including myself.
Yeah.
So a lot of love there.
But then, you know, in 2012 westarted doing workshops, and it

(01:00:38):
was because of that same reasonwas to teach everyone that they
are a maker and a creatorthemselves.
And it's just the reps, like youwere saying.
You just gotta practice.
You just gotta, and you can bethat master guitar player.
I'm learning how to play guitarright now.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:51):
I have a guitar in my living room that I told
myself I was going to learn, andI've probably touched it on the
five.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:55):
Oh my gosh, this is my fourth time committing to
guitar.
I quit three other times.
And in fact, I'm a serialquitter with mus with music.
I've always wanted to playmusic, and I'm finally ready
making the commitment now.
In fact, I just I started achallenge for myself where I
have to um I have to play everysingle day for a hundred days
for at least 15 minutes.

(01:01:16):
Otherwise, I have to quit myband.
Because I because I started aband too.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:21):
You're like, I haven't started a band yet, but
I'm gonna quit it if I don'tknow.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:24):
Actually, so so as part of my and my guitar
lessons, um my guitar mentor islike, you need to start a band.
That's part of your homework.
And so he actually It's anaccountability system.
It is, it's accountability.
Yeah.
And I'd love my band, but I Ihave to quit if I don't keep
practicing.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:39):
Because like I I know music is like because I I
know the podcast has been partof my journey, but I know that
there's something after this andI don't know what it is.
But part of it's music to me.
And I don't know what that lookslike.
And so like part of me is like,oh, I could go play the guitar
and do this.
Or like, oh, I could go buy likelike DJ mixing equipment and go
do that.
I could like, and so I get tornin so many different ways, but

(01:01:59):
at the end of the day, I'm like,just start with something and
you'll figure it out as you go.
Yes.
And so I applaud that you'redoing it and have an
accountability system that youmay or may not quit, depending
on we'll find out in a hundreddays.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:09):
Um, I'm gonna do it because I'm not quitting.
Well, I told my band today, andthey're like, they're like,
You're not gonna quit, we'regonna kick you out.
It's like, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:16):
You're like, thanks for supporting me.
Totally, totally.
Oh man.
So yeah, I mean, that was thiswould be year like 16 of the um
DIY.
I mean, I'm solid.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:27):
Uh actually, yeah, so we just did 17.
Okay.
Because there was a COVID yearthat was virtual, which was
awesome.
And then um next year is gonnabe 18.
Wow.
Yeah, so our first 10 was at theGalovan Center, and then we
moved to the Utah State FairPark, and then year two at the
Utah State Fair Park wasvirtual, which was amazing.
Actually, it was so cool.
We um there was this really coolprogram uh they actually took it

(01:02:48):
down, but it was called MozillaHubs, where you could create
your own um worlds inside ofthis program.
It was and you could you couldbe an avatar and create these,
you know.
We had we what we did with it iswe created a virtual festival.
So we trained everybody in likea month on how to create their
own artisan booth inside thisvirtual world that we built that
was um a footprint of the DIYfestival.

(01:03:11):
And then we hosted the festivalin the platform Mozilla Mozilla
Hubs is what it was called.
And everyone would go in there,create their own avatar, and
then you could meet up and talkto each other and then walk
around like a video game style.
It was so cool.
In fact, it was so cool that weactually on opening day of the
festival during COVID, we brokethe servers for Mozilla.
It was crazy because like I hadbeen trying to meet with them.

(01:03:33):
Um, and so we set up a meetingat the festival in avatar form.
Yes.
And so we were meeting in thisone room, and I just like went
up and we just said hi to eachother, and then boom, we crashed
the servers.
It was crazy.
So then we took it to email andthey like had to move all of the
storage over on their serversfor us.
And and um it they were reallyimpressed.

(01:03:53):
Like we were the biggest thingthat they'd ever seen built in
there.
But anyway, long story short,they they uh I think they killed
that program like three or fouryears ago, so you can't see it
anymore.
But it was the coolest thing,virtual DIY festival.
We'd actually sometimes justmeet in there for teams, like
for meetings to be like, hey,let's log in.
Yeah, let's log in, let's gomeet there.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:09):
Better than the conference room.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:12):
But yes, but yeah, so nowhere in year 18.
Um, but yeah, the DIY festival,it's at it's at the Utah State
Fair Park.
We've got um a STEM component.
In fact, G Fiber has been thetitle sponsor of our STEM
building for 13 years.
Wow, which is amazing.
We have some incrediblesponsors.
Harman's um, they've been ourtitle sponsor for 11 years.

(01:04:32):
Uh, it's really been wonderfulto just have some of these
really great communic companiescome out and just support us.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:37):
Especially like iconic things in the community
that good brands see somethingand like, hey, we want to be
part of this because we knowthat it's an like and obviously
like there's I mean, brandrecognition for them, but to see
something that they of all thethings that they can choose to
support, it's like this is thething that we want to put our
name on.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:53):
Totally.
And we do tons of other stuffbesides DIY Festival Monthly
Workshops.
We do a holiday market thatwe're working on right now.
It's our seventh year up inOgden, Utah, doing that.
Um, we do a partnership withMill Creek called the Makers
Mart, which is a cash and carrymarket that we do once a year.
This is our third year doingthat with them.
We do a partnership with MidvaleCity called Letter West, and
this is a conference for peoplewho love hand lettering.

(01:05:15):
It's very niche.
Super cool.
But if you're into signpainting, if you're into
calligraphy, if you're intomodern lettering, if you're into
tattoo lettering, um, graffiti,like this is your conference.
It's really cool.
We bring in people from all overthe world.
Last year we brought in ChazBajorquez, who is a legendary
Chicano graffiti here.
He's in his late 70s, and he hadmore energy than like the

(01:05:38):
22-year-olds that were on theconference.
So it was so fun.
It was a pleasure to have himcome out.
Um, we've had Seb Lester fromthe UK, who is a master
calligrapher who's done a lot ofwork for NASA and Apple.
Uh this year we're bringing outum Jessica.
Oh my gosh, what's her lastname?
Hadesh Hesh?
Jessica Hesh, I think is herlast name.
She's she's like the founder ofthe modern hair lettering

(01:05:59):
movement.
Um anyway, it's if you're intothat, definitely check that out.
That's coming up in April.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:05):
But this is all the 10 years super niche things that
I have no idea about, and she'sbeing like, no idea about this.
Like I was at uh when I was atRed West.
So when uh I was with mygirlfriend, her little brother
was in town, and one of herfriends came with us.
And when we get there, she'slike, I want to go line dancing
when we're here.
I go to the western every nowand then.
I'm like, eh, like, why not?
But I didn't understand theworld of line dancing that it

(01:06:26):
was.
Like, because I walk up and I'mlike, it's assume like I was
like, oh right, boot, scoot, andboogie, like, you know, like
same old shit that everybodydoes.
But then I'm like, oh wait, likethese are all pre-choreographed
things that people havememorized and they play a song,
and like some people come, somepeople will go.
And I'm like, I had no idea thisworld existed.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:41):
Like it's a whole scene.
Yeah, I'm obsessed with I'venever gone, but I follow some
people on TikTok that I love towatch their feeds.
They're so good, it's reallycool.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:50):
So I love, I mean, and the podcast has been a great
medium to do that, but I justlike find these little things.
I'm like, and ADHD hyperfixationdeep dive, and let's see how far
down we can get.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:00):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:00):
So, yes, I would love to go to hand lettering
fast.
Like one of my friends, he livesdown in St.
George, but he does umtypography for a career.
Like people reach out to him,he's like, Hey, this is our
brand.
So he's like, Let me go create atype font for you, be right
back.
Yes.
And so it's like those sort ofthings.
I'm like, I have no idea, butI'd love to learn.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:17):
It's type adjacent for sure.
Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:20):
Cool.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:20):
I want to offer your listeners an opportunity if
they're interested.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:26):
Go on.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:27):
Um, yeah.
So um if they're interested infree tickets for the holiday
market, um, just follow me atInstagram.
I'm at the real angela, and justDM me.
Um DM me uh small lake city anduh yeah, we'll get we'll get you
some some tickets.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:46):
Yes, holiday market.
I will be there because I needto go exp I need to see the
world that you've created or oneof the the one of the worlds.
One of the one of your Mozillaworlds that you created.
Yes.
Like which is wild.
Like there's few people likeanybody can be more or less like
a one-hit wonder.
Like there's countless examplesacross every aspect of the
world.
But there's this special peoplewho can continue to deliver and

(01:08:09):
deliver and deliver.
And like you are one of thesepeople who's been like, okay,
here's this like magazine slashlike pseudo-communities that's
existed forever.
I'm gonna take it and then boom.
And then you're like, hey, likethere's kind of this like
appetite for these craft andcreative people.
I'm gonna do this, then boom.
And so I love that you're thisperson that's been able to just

(01:08:30):
take uh, I mean, MacGyver theway out of things that you've
seen and been able to create aspace and a place where people
didn't have wanted it.
Because it's a hard thing to do.
Like, even I was at this eventon Tuesday Tuesday.
It was down at Pa and I was downat the green room for this uh
event platform, and it was likemostly people who just throw a
lot of events, and like there'speople who've done it for

(01:08:50):
decades, there's people who'vedone it for weeks, and like it
was just kind of talking.
People's like, because like foran event, you have like most
things, but for sake of theargument on this one, let's say
events, like you have toconvince someone to do something
new and change their behavior togo somewhere they haven't been
before, which is a lot.
It is a lot, and so we're kindof talking about like, oh, like
people want to be places, butit's hard for them to go places,

(01:09:12):
social anxiety, post-COVID,blah, blah, blah.
And so the thought of like thatalone in its own world is one
thing, and to do that one time,but then to create all of these
different avenues of like notjust Craft Lake City, but then
all these monthly workshops andlike all these other niche and
nuanced things you've created isis pretty spectacular.
Like, kudos to you andeverything that you've done.
Like, that's a lot to do assomeone who's like trying and

(01:09:34):
have a budding community thatI'm trying to put together.
Like, it's I scratch my head atit a lot sometimes and often in
frustration.
So keep doing it.
Thank you.
I know there's something elseyou're gonna do eventually, and
it's gonna grow like a get someplans.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:47):
You just wait.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:48):
Love it, Angela.
Um, well, before we wrap up,want to ask you the two
questions I always ask everybodyon every episode.
Number one, if you could havesomeone on the Small Lake City
podcast and hear more about whatthey've been up to and hear
their story, who would you wantto hear from?

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:01):
Oh yeah.
Oh gosh, there's so manywonderful people I would love to
hear from.
Um, you know, oh my goodness,who should I who should I
nominate?

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:11):
Tyro, that's a great question.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:13):
Like, who should I nominate out of everyone?
And I I I knew I was gonna beasked this, so I should have
come well very I should havecome more prepared.
Um, but it's such a greatquestion.
I would say, let's see, who hasnot been on that needs to be on?
Um there's like a lot of peopleswirling through my mind right
now, but I want to choosesomeone a little unique that

(01:10:37):
maybe you don't know.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:39):
Those are my favorite.
Because like I the things I knowabout, I know about, I can ask
them, I can work on that.
But I love the things I'm like,yeah, yeah, I have no idea.
Would love to go down anotherrabbit hole.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:51):
You know, yeah maybe since we're talking about music
and um maybe my guitar mentor issomeone you should have on.
Hmm.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:59):
Tell me more.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:00):
David Payne.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:01):
David Payne.
Why does that name sound fake?

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:03):
Because he's a local legend.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:04):
Of course.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:05):
Yeah, and he's got a lot of real he could tell you a
lot about this Lake City musicscene.
Cool.
He's still very active in it andhas been very active in it for
the past 30 years.
Totally.
And even the provo music scene.
So I think he would bewonderful.
Oh, provo music scene though,too.
Um, Corey Fox, you need to haveCorey on.
Oh, Corey's behind Valore.
In fact, you definitely need tohave him on because he's
celebrating Valor's anniversary.

(01:11:27):
How many years is it?
In January.
It might be 15 or is it 20?
I don't know.
But but he's behind, I mean, allof the big bands that have come
out of Provo to Corey.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:36):
Well, it's like even I just saw the announcement that
for Redfest at the U, it's NeonTrees and their one that came
out of there.
Like, cause yeah, the amount ofmusic that's come from Utah that
like I mean, there's the peoplethat know about of like the
connections of Imagine Dragonsand Neon Trees and the Used.
And but then there's also somany more that people like don't

(01:11:57):
realize all of the like evenwhen I went and saw who did I go
see recently.
This is getting another deepdive into my music breath.
Oh yeah, uh Empire of the Sun.
Oh, yeah.
When I was there, like some ofmy friends DMs me last because I
was like, wanted to go, but Iwas tired.
And one of my friends texted,actually, two friends separately
text me who were friends witheach other, and they didn't
realize they both text me, butthey did.
Like, we should go.
I'm like, I really don't want topay for it.

(01:12:19):
But like, let me see if I cantext someone and like yada yada
yada is like able to get aticket, and then I get there,
and they're like, Oh, we gottickets too.
And they're like, Well, how'dyou do?
I'm like, I just know like uhsome people at Granary worked
out.
They're like, oh, well, thesomeone we went to high school
with who was a dancer in highschool musical, her brother is
the bassist for Empire of theSun, and she used to be one of
the background dancers for them.
So that's how we got tickets.

(01:12:40):
I love it.
And even when, oh my god, ohyeah, I was at the airport
before Red West because I wascoming back from Vegas for a
work trip, and I see these guyslike grabbing like a guitar out
of like the the oversightstorage and other stuff.
I'm like, you guys areperforming this weekend, aren't
you?
Like, yeah, we're just in fromNashville.
So cool.
And they're like, Yeah, ourguitarist used like is from
here.
I'm like, of course he is.
So it's like it's like theselittle connections that it's not

(01:13:02):
like this huge face, but there'sso many little threads between
it all.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:06):
So we have such a great music community here.
It's really, really wonderful.
And you definitely get Corey on.

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:11):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:11):
Yeah, I can I'll give you an introduction.
Yeah, no, I would love to.
Well, and let's uh let's give ashout-out to a woman too.
I'm sorry I'm answering thiswith three different people, but
the first person that actuallycame to my mind when you
mentioned this was Felicia Baca.
She's head of the Salt Lake CityArts Council.
She's incredible, and um, she'sa she's a wonderful visual
artist herself, although sheprobably doesn't practice as
much like I don't.

(01:13:32):
She's a photographer as well.
And then she's an incrediblemusician too.
She plays bass.
Of course.
Um, but she's also just apowerhouse.
I mean, you know, the executivedirector of the Salt Lake City
Arts Council.
So uh works with the mayor andum a lot of other uh wonderful
people here and is reallysupportive of the arts.
And she's got some excitingthings that she could talk
about.
So you should have her on too.

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:52):
Deal.
No, great recommendations.
And then lastly, if people wantto find out more about Craft
Lake City, all the other thingsattached with that slug or you,
what's the best place to findmore information?

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:03):
Yeah, follow me on my personal Instagram at the
realangela.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:08):
Which is amazing that you have that handle.
That's a good one.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:11):
Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:11):
I feel like we've we're past the time.
Like it happened with emails awhile ago where you can't really
like have your name anymore,like asked be something.
And like with Instagram andother things, it's like, yeah,
like you can't get your name, orlike especially like a more
generic name, like Angela Brownisn't the most unique name.
I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:25):
No, no, tell me about it.
That's why I use I like to usemy middle initial, Angela H.
Brown.
Because it's every time I'm atthe dentist's office, it's true.
There's like, okay, there's like40 of you.
Which one are you?

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:35):
Yes.
Um, Angela's been amazing.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:38):
Oh, my pleasure.
And I had so much fun chattingwith you.
I feel like I could be hereanother three hours.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:42):
That's my problem, is like you like it's a joke.
Like when I especially with likemy golf friends, because like I
used to kind of resent it, butnow I kind of appreciate it that
they like they kind of hold thismentality of me from like high
school.
And because like all of a suddenI'll be like about to tee off or
something, and then they'll belike, someone will talk about
something like, well, the funnything is, like, and I'll start
talking like Eric, shut up andjust hit the ball, or else we're

(01:15:03):
gonna be here all day.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:04):
I do the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 (01:15:05):
Yeah, like my therapist coins it like when I
was first talking to her, liketherapist or something.
Anyway, that's a whole notherrabbit hole.
Um, but she's like, Well, what'slike where do you find the most
joy in life?
Like, where do you enjoy this?
I'm like, Oh, like you give methree or four, maybe five
friends around a table, bottleof wine in the middle, and she's
like, Oh, tabling.
And I was like, Tabling.
Like, come again.
She's like, Yeah, that's what Icall it's like tabling of just

(01:15:27):
like sitting around a table,people chatting, like that is my
happy place.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:33):
And well, and that is exactly why you're such a
good host.

SPEAKER_02 (01:15:36):
I it's an interviewer.
I enjoy it.
It's it's fun.
Like, I like even this week hasbeen a long week.
And before this, I was like, I Idon't know if I'm gonna do this.
And then all of a sudden, likeas soon as I You're like, should
I cancel?
I don't know, should I postponeuh I've only had to cancel day
up once, and that was because Iwas like, anyway, just not in a
great mentality.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:54):
Well, I was so glad that you made time today.

SPEAKER_02 (01:15:56):
Yes, no, so much.
Likewise, I mean you have abillion I have things going on,
but you have a billion thingsgoing on.
It's not a contest.
Yes, and no nor should it everbe.
That's my biggest.
So I would probably win.
No, just keep it.
No, you would win.
100% you would win.
And because like you have, Imean, you have a cat, I don't
have a cat, you have a child, Idon't have a child, you have a
magazine, I don't have amagazine.

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:11):
And we we could say yet at the end of all of those
if we wanted to.

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:14):
Don't tell Autumn.
She's trying to get me to get acat.

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:17):
I I think you should.
I'm I'm on team autumn for thecat, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:21):
All right, Angela.
Before we're here and tell thethe kick us out of here, thank
you so much.
Keep doing what you're doing,and so excited to see what you
have cooked up your sleeve next.

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:30):
Thanks.

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S1, E100: SLUG Mag/ Craft Lake City - Angela Brown

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}S1, E100: SLUG Mag/ Craft Lake City - Angela Brown