S1, E98: Nomatic, VP of Marketing - James Atkin - Small Lake City

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Amazing time in my life.
It was the golden era ofskateboarding.
Chad got booked to go to Japanwith Hurley for two months.
He's like, dude, just come.
And I went with Chad and justshowed up.
Yeah, he did the team managing.
No, I was coming.
We go to Spain for a coupleweeks, go to UK.
We'd go to Sweden for a month,do another Red Bull, you know,
RV trip across Canada.

(00:20):
We have our hands out the frontwindow, wiping the windshield
because we couldn't see.
We had a going-away party withaxes and hammers.
Wild life experiences.
Broken bottle, glass to thethroat.
You want to hear that story?
Because it's so good.
If I stay in LA, I don't know ifI'm going to last very much
longer.
Got it.
They call me up and they'relike, hey, we're doing a PR
event and like Powell in ahouse, but can you come and be
our like our athlete?

(00:41):
And they're like, dude, you'vebeen doing marketing for 15
years.
I'm like, that's marketing?
They grew 17,000 percent.
So they went from like 900 grandin sales to 17 million in one
year.
What is up, everybody, andwelcome back to another episode
of the Small Lake City Podcast.
I'm your host, Eric Nilsson.
Now, this week's guest is JamesAkin.
Now, James is the current VP ofmarketing for the bag company

(01:04):
founded and based in Salt Lakecalled Nomadic.
But James's path of gettingthere is anything but typical.
Being born and raised in St.
George, Utah, he moved toCalifornia as a professional
skateboarder, touring the worldwith all of the stories you
could ever imagine.
But as his professionalskateboarding career came to an
end, he pivoted his careertowards marketing and uses those

(01:26):
15 years of experience to hisbenefit.
Now, this story is wild.
There's so many ups, there's somany downs, everything from
booking a ticket randomly toJapan to go skate and having a
bottle up to his throat where healmost died, touring the world
with Bob Bernquist andeverything in between.
So you're gonna love this one.
This is one of my favoriteepisodes that I've ever

(01:48):
recorded.
So yeah, let's jump into it.
And I hope you enjoy.
There's always a time for yourfirst podcast.
I wish this was my firstpodcast.
It's because I have the uh I'mdoing it for the hundredth
episode.
I'm doing a one.
Yeah.
And it's it's like because likethere's certain things in life
where you kind of just put yourhead down, and then all of a
sudden you go out for air,you're like, oh, it's been a

(02:08):
hundred.
Yeah.
And then all of a sudden I'mlike, oh, we're like similar
with the first.
I was like, oh, 10th episode.
It's like 20th, 25th, 50th,75th.
I was like, you're so you'rejust running, you don't even
know what's going on.
And yeah, it's just one of thosethings that just becomes such
like a part of your routine.
Yeah.
That it's like, okay, yeah,schedule people, record, do
this, do that, do that.
And then all of a sudden I'mlike, oh, it's been almost two
years.
Yeah, just straight heads down,running.

(02:29):
When what what what podcast isthis?
97, 98, and you think 95?
He's a 98.
So one more and then thehundredth, which I'm it looks
cool, dude.
Live.
It's it's like I've thoughtabout it because like one thing
I love about the conversations Ihave is they're very intimate.
Like just meeting you in a room.
It's about like I'm like, andwhat is the like, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(02:49):
Um, but I'm curious how muchthat will change things.
And thankfully, the guest Ihave, she is someone who's
talking like is a publicspeaker, so I'm not worried
about something.
Because like I've recorded withpeople, and yeah, because I've
experienced both sides of thespectrum.
I've had people where it's like,oh, this is my third one this
week, like let's just get going.
Yeah.
And there's people that's like,oh, what's going on?
Yeah.

(03:10):
That'll be a good vibe though,just having an audience,
especially like an intimatesetting, you know?
Yeah.
Um, so yeah, I mean it's fun tohave a little bit more
interactive, get peopleinvolved.
But yeah, September 19th,flanker downtown, Shereen
Gorbani, who's someone it's funto see like, because I always
explain it as there's leafpeople, branch people, and treep

(03:32):
try truck people.

SPEAKER_02 (03:32):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (03:33):
And there's people, I mean, leaf people are, oh, you
know, I do like a thing, I don'treally interact with the
community, don't really have tosay.
Yeah.
And then you have the branchpeople say, okay, like you kind
of reach it out a little bit.
Reach it out a little bit.
Yeah.
I don't know who you are, youget involved.
Then there's these people thathave like their hand in
everything, yeah, everythingthat's going on.
So influential.
Everybody looks up to them, andshe's who I believe to be one of
them.
Those oh, sick.
So she's even like past thetrunk to the roots, it sounds

(03:55):
like pretty much.
Like there's a woman by the nameof Missy Grice who's the founder
of Public.
Yeah, she's awesome.
So she's like, I would say she'sfor sure.
Snuff.
Oh, okay.
Um excited to sit down and talkwith her because I've never
talked to her before.
Yeah.
So it looks cool.
Yeah, I'm excited.
If I was in town, I would do it.
What day is it again?
17th?
Uh 19th.
It's uh Friday, September.
I believe, yeah.
I'll be here the 17th, but notthe 19th.

(04:17):
Okay.
I'll be there in spirit, myfriend.
I'll feel you.
I just look over and there'sthis like a dark like Vader
Anakin just apparition in theback.
Like, Jinx, what the hell?
Most people would call meCasper, but I'll go with Anakin.

unknown (04:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (04:30):
Depends on which Anakin.
There's a lot of different ways.
Let's go with young Anakin.
Not evil yet.
Yeah.
Just a kid who has a pod raise,you know?
Just live like.
That was so good.
Uh James Atkins.
I'm excited about this one.
Um, nomadic, VP of marketing.
Uh I've had like just my ownexperience with nomadic.
I kind of talked to you about ita little bit, but so my I call

(04:53):
him my cousin, but he's reallymy stepdad's uh late wife's
cousin.
Oh sorry, nephew.
That's a path.
So essentially my stepdad's deadwife's nephew.
Nephew.
Okay.
And so we went to collegetogether, did all a lot of
stuff.
He got into product design.
Oh, cool.
Um, he helped out with nomadicat the beginning.
Oh, it was Mike.
Yeah, Mike.

(05:13):
Oh, dude, he's the best.
Yeah.
He he introduced.
Yes.
Yes.
Exactly.
Freaking love, Mike.
Great guy.
Yes.
And so it's been fun to see howmuch he helped with nomadic get
things started, how much, Imean, he does a lot of stuff for
Sunday call.
He's a ninja dude.
Just one of those guys that youjust see, like he gets it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You can put it together andunderstands, executes, crushes
it.
Yeah.
That's awesome.

(05:34):
So it's fun to see him kind ofstart working on these
backpacks.
I'm like, okay, like likebackpacks.
Yeah, cool, whatever.
Do my thing.
And then all of a sudden, when Iwas working at uh a previous
job, it came up a lot.
And all of a sudden, and we weretalking about like in just
consideration marketing and likeraising awareness of things.
Yeah.
All of a sudden I know about it.
And I see it seeing it aroundthe airport.
I start seeing it on my friends.
I start seeing it everywhere.

(05:54):
Once you finally recognize it,because like some of our bags,
our camera bags, and this bag,and even the stuff Mike did,
it's called our navigatorseries.
It's recognizable.
Yeah.
Right?
Like this is a square bag thatstands up by itself.
Yes.
Normally you'd be like, ohweird.
But then once you start kind ofgetting into it, you're like,
dude, I see these.
Yeah.
Granted, you're in Salt Lake.
Yeah.
You're at the Salt Lake Airport.
You see it more.
But even when I fly through likeDenver or New York or something

(06:16):
like that, we're now getting tothat phase of the brand.
I can't remember what the wordis called, but it's when you see
it at airports.
Or, you know, if you're a kid'sbrand, you see it at Disneyland
or something.
Yeah.
Where you start seeing it moreand you're like, dude, whoa,
this is so different than twoyears ago.
Yeah.
I actually see our problem, likethe first time you're like
working at it.
Oh, can I take a picture ofthis?
100%.
You're nerding out on people.
You're like, yeah, what's yourname, man?

(06:37):
Yeah, where'd you get that bag?
Do you like it?
Yeah.
All of a sudden you're like, oh,it's there's so many everywhere.
I mean, I still do it.
Like, I just did it right now.
Yeah.
Well, because it's fun, like forcontext, we went upstairs to the
top of Edison to the pool.
I saw a friend of mine andintroduced James to him.
And he's like, Oh, I like yourlike James to him was like, Oh,
I like your backpack because hehad a nomadic bag.
And he's like, Oh, kind of like,thank you, thank you.
Oh, I work.

(06:57):
There's like, oh, I have fourdifferent bags.
This is what I do.
I'm like, see, and that's likethey get hooked.
Yeah.
And it's nice because they arelike they're very on-brand bags.
Yeah.
Like there is a consistent brandand feel to them.
For sure.
And there's a quality product.
Like, I never had someone haveone and be like, it was fine.
Yeah.
And he didn't know we were basedin Salt Lake.
Yeah.
Which we are.
Yeah.
Just founded in Salt Lake.

(07:18):
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I'm excited to talk to youabout because I do want to talk
more about your background too,because I think it's very
interesting, especially someonefrom St.
George originally.
Yeah.
Um, who was in snowboardingindustry, slash skateboarding
industry, and then skating, andthen so much local product
companies and just great productcompanies.
Yeah.

(07:38):
And would love, I mean, justhear about what made you go
there, what you're excitedabout.
But I mean, it even starts offwith me, you and St.
George working at these likewhen I because I had a lot of um
uh friends and family in St.
George, one of which was shemeans she got into snowboarding
in high school, so I got uhacquainted elliptrics via that.
And so it's fun to see like yourfirst job was at l at school,

(07:59):
which led to it was probablylike my tenth draw.
Oh, fair.
But you know, I don't put likecurb painting and changing
breaks out on my my LinkedInprofile.
Could you imagine if it made youput everything in?
I was a server, I did that,especially growing up in like
the 80s and 90s.
Like I had a job since I was 12.
Yeah.
Of just the most random stuff,yeah.
You know, getting paid fivedollars to paint a curb.
That was awesome, or washingwindows or whatever.

(08:21):
You know what I mean?
But yeah, they they want yourprofessional career, which those
are all professional.
Set this everyone set the stagefor the next one.
Yeah, totally.
Um so skateboarding, talkingabout how you got into skating.
Uh well, I got into skatingfirst off, what was that fifth
grade?
My neighbor was third grade, hehad a Bart Simpson board, yeah,
which is like one you get atWalmart, like one of those, you
know.
I don't want to admit to this,but we were also kind of

(08:42):
rollerblading at the time alittle bit, right?
And so you'd go to the skatepark, see skaters, and then I
started trying to his board.
But I grew up next to thisschool in in St.
George's Bloomington,Bloomington Elementary, and it's
such a good skate spot.
Like perfect sixth air, doublesets, ledges, everything.
So all the skaters used to goover there.
And one of them happened to bethe guy that runs Liptricks now.

(09:04):
So I would go over there, it wasright after Halloween.
This is like 1992.
I'd take a bag of candy, andbecause the board that my
neighbor had was like reallycrappy, right?
Yeah, I'd take a bag of candyover there and I would offer
them handfuls of candy if Icould borrow their board for 10
minutes.
Hell yeah.
That's how I got into actualreal, a real skateboard.
And then I became friends withall those guys, right?
And they were all five yearsolder than me.

(09:25):
Yeah, but they all had likelittle brothers my age and
stuff, and so those kids end upbeing my best friends because we
all got into skating at the sametime, like Christmas 1992.
And so that was kind of how Istarted getting into it.
Older legends in my eyes,letting you borrow their
skateboards until I couldconvince my parents to buy me a
board for Christmas.
Yeah, yeah.
It's like that gateway exactly.

(09:46):
I it was a gateway with candy.
Yeah, I was like, I didn't havea van, but I was giving away
candy, you know, to there werekids that were older than me,
but yeah, they were there.
That's kind of how I started ona real skateboard.
No, actually, ironically enough,like I was a big rollerblader
growing up.
Yeah, probably until eh, alittle bit in college, I started
leaving it behind.
Dude, there's a huge rollerbladescene here.
Oh, yeah.
Like Mike Scott and Tori andwhat's the dude's name that had

(10:08):
the video game?
You had a rollerblade video gamefrom up here.
Jaron Grove.
Jaron, like when I moved toCalifornia to skating, I would
see those guys all the time.
Yeah.
I was like, dude, Utah and yes.
I because I like how you talkedabout like, oh, the kids I made
friends with like five yearsolder than me.
Yeah.
So in the same way, like I gotintroduced to it in fourth
grade, and then would go to realride skate park here all the

(10:29):
time.
Oh good.
And then that closed down and Imoved away from that friend, so
it got away, but then got backinto it and asked people to
skate park, and all of a sudden,like they're like, hey, just
come hang out on Friday.
And so I end up at this, like,I'm probably 14 or 15.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm at this guy's apartmentwho's like 22, 23, and it's like
every age range is representedin there, and it doesn't matter.
That only happened in actionsports.

(10:50):
Yes.
And I just want to throw thisout there.
I hate using the term actionsports, yes, because it's very
corporate.
But in skating, snowboarding,rollerblading, BMX, motocross,
that thing where age doesn'tmatter happens.
It's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 (11:00):
Totally.

SPEAKER_01 (11:01):
And it's not weird at all.
No, like all those guys that Ithat let me borrow their boards
for the first time for a handfulof candy, they all ended up
being my mentors.
And they all moved to Salt Lake.
And then that was we'll probablyget into that, but that was like
my connection as a youngteenager was I would come up to
Salt Lake all the time.
Yeah.
Like I'd just tell my parents Iwas staying at a friend's house
and I'd literally fly up here.

(11:21):
I love that because we got freeflights.
I was like, I'm just gonna jumpon a plane real quick and go
stay at this homie's housethat's 19, having a rager.
Yeah, and I was like super LESat the time.
Yeah.
So, but I just wanted to comeand skate.
Yeah, that's all you want.
Yeah, very similar.
Like I remember my mom woulddrop me off at my friend's house
in like Kearns.
Yeah.
And like my mother is a I lovemy mother.
Yeah.
But she's also like from theeast side, she was a

(11:44):
pediatrician.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Just yeah, very like buttonedup, put together.
Yeah.
And then I mean I wouldn't tellher everything.
Sorry, mom.
Not at all.
Like granted, like I wasactually like kind of rude,
because I mean I saw people do Imean all sorts of like hard
drugs.
Yeah, like I saw so many things.
Yeah.
Well, for some reason, I'vetalked to my therapist about it,
and she thought it wasfascinating.
But like I still had this likevoice of responsibility of like,

(12:05):
oh, if you do that, you knowit's gonna happen.
Yeah, if like you do that.
I was never into I like I didn'tget into that stuff until I was
like traveling the world forskating.
Like, where I mean a little bitmaybe in the late, late teens,
but like in those days, like Ijust wanted to skate.
Yeah, so I didn't care aboutlike, oh, you're doing that?
Cool, I'll just care aboutdrinking or smoking or anything
like that.
I was like, dude, you guys youthink I'm gonna hang out?
Yeah, flirt with the oldergirls.

(12:25):
We're still gonna wake up ateight and go to that one.
Yeah, you're that annoyed kid atthe boarding like, hey, you guys
good?
Can we go?
Can we go?
Can we?
I saw I saw your eye crack offit.
You said, Yeah, just go to yeah.
All the older dudes are hugover.
Let's go.
Yeah.
Right, Brad Idenbushy tailed.
But yeah, I mean, talk to meabout like that.
I mean, transition into beingthe young kid that everyone's
yeah, the oh, it's the the Gromthat's chasing everybody.
Yeah, yeah.

(12:45):
So then being like, oh, like I'mdoing this.
This is now.
I mean, it was like world isabout it was my world, right?
It was my like going intoskating, young age, and this was
like the the time, and it wasprobably the same with you for
rollerbuilding, but like early90s, like skaters were dirtbags,
like they were the lowest ofsociety, you know what I mean?
So, like you would see punk100%.

(13:07):
It was that it was the straightedge scene, it was the party
scene, it was like everyone justlooked at you like you all you
you did drugs, basically, right?
Like they were just the thecrappy kids, right?
And so it was an interestingtime because like you know, I
grew up in a small town, we kneweverybody.
My family's been there since1860.
Like, you know, you're relatedto everyone, basically.
And so I still got along witheveryone, but they all, you

(13:28):
know, just people looked at youdifferent, right?
So it was not how you viewskating today, where it's like
in the Olympics and things likethat.
Um, so you had to you kind ofhad to endure through some stuff
in those days, you know.
Cops like to talk to you a lot,yeah, put you in the back of
their cars and get kicked out ofspots.
But it also, you know, in thosedays too, it just it taught you
so many good lessons of life,how to communicate with people,

(13:50):
how to deal with hard people,um, skating alone.
I mean, you guys have probablyalready heard your Ian McKay or
these other people talk aboutskating, of how how it teaches
you in your life about fallingand falling and falling and
getting up, getting up.
Yeah, totally, until you untilyou get it.
It doesn't matter what it is.
And I've taken that across mylife and all, you know, other
different career paths andthings like that.

(14:10):
But you know, it was it was areally fun time.
Yeah.
It was very, you know, a lot ofa lot of crazy stuff in those
days.
Definitely not your typicalexperience that people get to
have if they yeah.
So I was just like thing crazypassionate about it.
It's all I did.
It's literally like all I didfor like 20 years until I was
like 29, basically, when I wentback to school in my late 20s

(14:32):
during the recession.

SPEAKER_00 (14:33):
What was the change that happened then?

SPEAKER_01 (14:34):
It was like, well, it was probably actually when I
got a job at Goal Zero, is whenI stopped skating as much.
Okay.
Because I was still, I was stilllike I still had a board in my
late 20s when I hit 30, 31.
Um, but it was really during therecession, is when like
sponsorship dollars startedslowly drying up.
And so me and my girlfriend atthe time moved moved to St.

(14:57):
George.
We're both living in LA.
And so should we go backfarther?
Or should we just go there?
Yeah.
Hit me with your best shot, fireaway.
I mean, it there's there's allthis there's a long story there,
but like, yeah, let's do thelet's go down the middle.
Let's because I do want to hearthe context.
Because like again, to have thattake so much of your life, all
the steps does, yeah, and thenhave that taken out from under

(15:20):
you, or like not taken out fromunder you, but to have to go
through another change in lifeto something different.
Well, it and the like justbringing up steps, it's such an
interesting concept becausethere's always this first step
that a lot of people forget, andit's the hardest step, and it's
something usually psychopsychological that gets people
to do stuff.
So I'm lewing in St.
George, I'm working at the skateshop, you know.
So I'd go to trade shows andthings like that.

(15:41):
And I was also homies with a lotof the snowboarders in Salt Lake
and all the old skater dudes.
Yeah.
So I I came up for all thecontests, all the forum dudes
were homies, rode for a boardcompany up here.
So I was coming up to Salt Lakeall the time and go down to
trade shows in San Diego for theskate shop.
And so I was, you know, justfinishing high school.
And I went to a couple, like Iwent to Tampa Am, um, which is

(16:04):
like a big amateur contest,which was like a huge eye-opener
for me.
And, you know, I was at thatpoint in my life where I'm like,
do I go on a mission?
Do I go into the military?
Do I move to California?
And I was still living at home.
So I graduated high school, Ihad a girlfriend, started going
to college, got it's called thedumb shit letter letter in my

(16:25):
family.
When you start messing up inyour parents' eyes, living in
their home, got a letter mailedto me.
Showed up in a mailbox, hey, yougot a letter from someone here.
I'm just gonna give it to Ithink your dad wrote this.
And it basically gave you threeoptions, right?
It's like you either you eithergo on a mission, you get married
because I had a girlfriend, oryou move out.

(16:45):
And I was just like, okay.
Right around that same time, um,my girlfriend broke up with me,
and I always wanted to move toCalifornia.
Yeah, you know, I the missionthing, I was like back and
forth, you know, you're it'sjust bread and to you, right?
Yeah.
So out of eight kids, I was I'mnumber seven.
I was the first to not go on amission.
I actually tried to go.
I went in, it was a new bishop,and I told him everything.

(17:08):
Yeah.
And he's like, We're gonna giveit a year, you know.
Well, the first come back.
The first time I met him, he'slike, Yeah, I think you go like
in probably in like two months.
I was like, Oh, really?
Come back next week.
He's like, Yeah, it's gonna beat least a year.
I was like, Oh, okay.
Yeah, so I'm going toCalifornia.
Yeah, I'm moving to California.
So, you know, like the step forme was I got my girlfriend broke
up with me, totally likedestroyed me.

(17:28):
I'm like 19, and you know what Imean.
And she moved to California tolike her dad's house.

SPEAKER_00 (17:33):
And I was like, What the F?
I've been trying to go thereforever.

SPEAKER_01 (17:36):
Can we swear on this podcast?
Of course.
Oh, okay.
Um, and so what I did is, youknow, I'm like in this really
deep depressed state, but threemonths earlier I went to that
contest in Florida and I met abunch of people, right?
Not not a ton, but I met people.

SPEAKER_00 (17:51):
Was it a park contest or should he contest?
It was a park contest, indoorpark.

SPEAKER_01 (17:54):
Tampa it's the Tampa park, yeah.
So like a good homie from Vegasnamed Ragdoll was there.
We were already homies.
I introduced him, he introducedme to Jamie Thomas, and then I
introduced John Ollie to JamieThomas.
And so it was just like we weremeeting all these people, this
is how it is, right?
Like I had one, I had a freeflight to get to Tampa from
Vegas, flying standby.
It was Martin Luther Kingweekend.

(18:15):
I was a hundredth on the standbylist.
I was stuck in the Vegas airportas a just little Mormon white
kid from St.
George for 24 hours.
Finally made it there.
I had one night hotel.
I had Liptrix Escape Shop bookedme one night.
That's uh that was mysponsorship, right?
I was like, if you give me onenight, I could find homies and I

(18:36):
could stay in homies, you know,in their rooms.
Oh, yeah, right.
Which happened, right?
Let's so we're like staying atthe zero room and all these
other homies rooms and stufflike that.
So I became friends with acouple people.
Um, probably had like two orthree people that I like stayed
in contact with in California.
This is pre-cell phone days,right?
So this is like this is noteven, I mean, emails are around,
but you know, like a bunch ofskaters that have emails.
Home phone, yeah, totally.

(18:58):
This is like, yeah, 99, 2000.
And so girlfriend breaks up withme, so I was like, okay, I'm I'm
moving to California, right?
So I start working at a callcenter to save up money, just to
go down there.
Contact this dude who ended upbeing LDS too, I was like, hey,
I'm gonna move down there.
Can I stay on your couch forlike a month?
Right.
He happened to be the Duff'steam manager, the Duff shoes

(19:19):
team manager.
Yeah, still text me this day,we're homie's for life, right?
And so I save up, I think it waslike a thousand dollars.
This call center.
I cannot sell people stuff thatis not valuable to them.
So I was just getting hourlyrage, which, right?
Like I'd give them calls withpeople, and you have your whole
script, and you're supposed tosell them this, and you're
supposed to get their creditcard information so they can run
it, see what their limit is, andthen you offer them whatever

(19:40):
their limit is, right?
I couldn't do it.
I just made homies with allthese people.
So I'd be calling this buddy inTennessee, and you know, they're
all like not, they don't havemoney.
Yeah, so these companies arethey're the kind of have you
seen the boiler room?
Boiler room?
Yeah, it's literally that.
Like we're in one day, you'd goto the office and it would be
completely wiped clean.
There'd be no desk or anything.

(20:01):
It was super sketchy.
Yeah, so I would just I wouldactually tell customers we're
calling to not buy this stuff.
So like just stay on the callfor me so it looks like I'd be
stuck.
I was really good at liketalking with people and getting
them to like engage and like ifyou don't care about what you're
yeah, and I was just like, heyman, you got you got like four
grand on your credit limit.
Don't buy this, like invest insomething else, get to school,

(20:22):
do you know what I mean?
And I'm young, I've got I'm nota life coach or I can't tell
them anything going on.
Um, so I saved up with enoughmoney, and then right, it was
the art festival going on in St.
George at the time, and twohomies from Salt Lake, Jared
Smith's snuggles, the muralartist up here, oh yeah, and
Toli Flynn.
I ran into them and I was like,you guys, because I was homies
with all the Salt Lake people.
I'm like, I'm moving toCalifornia, come with me.

SPEAKER_00 (20:43):
And they're like, oh, okay, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 (20:45):
Because we all of us, anyone that was in skating
up in Salt Lake, I was reallythe only one in St.
George at like the level thatwould want to move to
California.
There was like two or threeothers, actually.
Um, they were that everyonewanted to move to California, or
you get into snowboarding.
Yeah.
So like Nate Bozong, who was onforum, like we are best friends,
and he was trying to make thedecision do I go to California
or do I stay in snowboard?

(21:07):
Right.
So he stayed in snowboard and Imoved to California.
So I go, I stay at uh this dudeRP Best's house for a month.
I get put on duffs, right?
Wasn't getting paid yet.
Um, start busing tables at aMexican restaurant, and it was
like the lowest part of my lifebecause I was so depressed from
doing it.
Broken Haze Earl broke yourheart.
Yeah.
Like it's a lot.
And I only and I really did onlyknow like two people, right?

(21:30):
Like I've met a couple of otherphotographers and stuff like
that.
And so I'm busing tables at a ata restaurant, and it was June
Bloom at the time, it was Mayand June.
So it was like I was I was inCarlsbad.
So it was always overcasted.
What did I do?
Right.
NRP's working a full-time job.
He's got a wife, didn't havekids yet.
And so I'd go bus tables, thenI'd go to all the skate parks.
Then I would start meetingpeople and stuff like that.

(21:51):
But I do remember like onespecific situation where I'm in
Carlsbad, I'm driving to theCarlsbad skate park.
I'm by myself.
I had a two, you know, two-wheeldrive Ford Ranger that was
purple, called it purple nurple.
And I'm at a stoplight.
And again, this is like a reallydepressed time of life, but I'm
at a stoplight and I'm lookingaround at all these cars, and
I'm like, dude, no one knows me.
Because I grew up in a smalltown where everyone knew you,

(22:14):
right?
Like you're related to everyone.
You couldn't get away withthings, right?
And it was this weird, likereally liberating feeling.

SPEAKER_00 (22:22):
Like, no one knows me.

SPEAKER_01 (22:24):
And it like it, that's when I started climbing
out of the depression, where itwas just like this, you can do
what you want to do withouthaving that baggage and burden
of doing what everyone elsewants you to do, especially
growing up in the LDS church.
Oh, totally.
Right.
And so it was like reallyvisceral.
Like it was just one of thosemoments it was like, whoa, this
is crazy.
And so then I just startedmeeting people and got on a

(22:46):
board company and startedgetting paid from Duff, started
getting paid for the boardcompany, and started making
enough money at the time was$1,500 a month.
My I moved out of that uhstaying with that buddy.
Yeah, yeah.
So I moved out of that and I gotan apartment with Jared Smith
and Tully and then this dudeJohn Ollie, who rode for zero.
We all got an apartment inCarlsbad, and it was like 500

(23:07):
bucks a month.
I'm making 1500 bucks.
I I started smoking weed andstuff during the time, you know,
here in California, you gottalive in a bit of loca.
And 1500 bucks was fine.
Like I was living great.
You're just dieting, like yeah,you're skating every day, you
got your rent, you got gasmoney, you got money for food,
and also you're like, you know,going to skate parks and selling

(23:28):
shoes and boards and stuff likethat, right?
And so that's kind of how I gotdown there, and I was in
Carlsbad.
Which is like you had likebecause again, like in today's
world, cool, you have an iPhone,yeah.
I mean, it's easy to getdiscovered, it's so easy to put
out concept, but like thosedays, you have to go where
everybody else is, and you wantto for yourself and until
anyone's gonna say, Oh yeah, andif you're if you're a kooky at

(23:50):
all, like you're done.
Yeah, you know what I mean?
But like, you know, got alongwith everyone, and right at that
time, too, like about two monthsafter I moved to California, I
got my first photo in amagazine, which was from a trick
I did at Tampa Am where I wentout with a photographer named
Scott Pommier, got a it was afront blunt on this handrail,
and I I was wearing a whitebutton-up shirt, looked straight
up from a mission.

(24:11):
And that was when my first photocame out in a magazine in Trans
World.

SPEAKER_00 (24:14):
I was like, whoa, dude.

SPEAKER_01 (24:16):
And so it happened to be my next roommate was Shad
Lambert.
He was working at uh at TransWorld, but he's from Colorado in
the four corners.
At those days, all we stucktogether, like Colorado, New
Mexico, Arizona, and Utah, we'reall really tight in the skate
scene.
And so he got me published andended up being a roommate with
him.
And uh yeah, so I had the SaltLake homies down.

(24:37):
They we did six months of thatapartment, stopped doing the
apartment, they moved back toSalt Lake because it was still a
grind, right?
And I came home to St.
George for like a week to figureout what I was gonna do.
And that was right when 9-11happened.
Like I'm at my parents' house.
I got home that night before, atmy parents' house, 9-11 happens,

(24:58):
and things get, you know,obviously weird for everyone.
I stayed home for probably likea week, and then I come out back
to California and I I crowd ourcouch surf for probably like
three months or something likethat.
Yeah.
And that was that period.
Over time, I probably did aboutnine months living in my car or
living on couches.
But at the time I I went fromthe the Ford Range, and we're

(25:19):
kind of brain-dubbing here, buttry to follow on.
Went from the Ford Range toHonda Civic, and the Honda Civic
worked great for living in yourcar, especially in Carlsbad, a
lot of industrial, so you youget the tricks of like putting
your t-shirts up in the windowsand stuff like that.
Because I never wanted tooverstay my welcome at people's
houses.
Yeah, so I never stayed morethan like two days, right?
And I'd be like staying inNewport Beach at some homie's
house and be like, Yeah, I'mgonna go down to Carlsbad, but

(25:39):
I'd literally just drive downthe street in an industrial park
and slip in my car.
Yeah, I'll be back whenever youneed to come back.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'll be here.
Yeah, yeah.
I'll come back for the skatesash.
But you know, California wasn'ttoo bad because the weather was
really good and had showers atthe beach.
So, you know, living your car isnot too bad and crowds are
surfing, but you know, stilldown in Carlsbad.
Got another, I went moved into ahouse with the dude Chad
Lambert.
I was talking about a coupleother skaters.

(26:00):
And that's that's when my careerstarted.
Like I started meeting everyone,I started getting a couple more
photos, just turned amateurbecause you're on flow for so
long, right?
Started getting a little bit ofpaychecks.
And then um when a big we'retalking about steps, right?
For a second.
Like, let me go back there.
The first step, thepsychological step for me to go
to California was I had it, Ihad to get my heart broken.

(26:22):
Like that was the step thatpushed me psychologically to do
something out of my comfortzone.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
You need some sort of, I mean,it's the laws of physics.
Yeah, an object arrest will stayat rest until exerted on by out
um uh outside force.
Same thing.
A lot of things.
Yeah.
First step, you need to havesomething happen.
Yeah, the step wasn't, oh, Imoved to California.
The step was like I gotemotionally destroyed.

(26:46):
And then I took that step tomove to California.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying?
Um, and so then fast forward tothis period, I'm living with the
homies.
I actually w my room was a shedin the backyard in Carlsbad, but
it was like a half block fromthe beach.
I was sick.
Yeah, paid 500 bucks for theshed, had about 14 uh power
plugs in there, so I'm prettysure it was a grill room.

(27:07):
Um, but there was no bathroom,so I had to walk through another
roommate's bedroom to get to thebathroom.
Because it was in the backyard,you know.
Um, but it was there.
I just got flow for Hurley, andI was just getting clothes from
right and Shad got booked to goto Japan with Hurley for two
months, right?
I think he was doing a month,and another photographer was

(27:27):
coming for a month, and he'slike, dude, just come.
And I was like, Let me let meask the team manager.
The team manager's like, no,we're not gonna you can't go.
You're like flow.
Yeah, right.
So I convinced Duff to buy Duffsto buy me a ticket, and I went
with Shad and just showed up.
Yeah, like I'll figure it out,I'll show up.
No, he did the team managerdidn't know I was coming.
He was he was actually pissed.
I just showed up, right?
It's because Shad was going.

(27:48):
Shad's like, dude, we'll justcome with me.
So got a ticket.
I had, I didn't have like perdiem, I didn't have money.
Yeah, I think I had likeprobably went over with like 200
bucks, thinking that I was gonnabe okay, right?
So anytime there were teamdinners, that's when I was gonna
eat.
I was still on flow.
I get over there, and this iswhen I met like all my best
friends, you know, like in theskate world, like the the homies

(28:10):
that you'll be homies for life.
So like Nuj, Justin Roy, ChrisMarkovich, um, Stacey Lauru was
there, Bob Bernquist.
I mean, we're not best friends,but Bob Bernquist was there,
Rodrigo TX.
Like, I mean, what experienceyou guys showed up in Japan?
Legends, spot hunting, skatingaround the city.
It was amazing.
It was amazing.
And I became really good friendswith like the creative director
who and on you know, going onand doing um Kingdom and some

(28:33):
other Netflix series and stufflike that.
Like just like baller dudes,right?
And I'm just the kid who showedup.
And so I'm hungry.
I'm hungry at the time.
I'm like just turned 21, right?
I'm still I'm I'm just enteringmy party phase.
Um, and so I go for a month andjust sleep on the couch, but I
just I went hard, dude.
I just got tons of tricks.

(28:53):
I just they would go and have todo photo shoots and stuff for
Hurley because Hurley was justopening in Japan.
They just opened up an office,and so I was just filming
photographer would stay back,and we'd just go skate.
And I remember my first ad forHurley, so I got put on the team
after this trip.
Okay, like full AMT.
My first ad for Hurley, the theactual Hurley skate team were
out doing stuff for the Hurleyoffice.

(29:13):
It was me, the film, thephotographer.
And I'm like, dude, I want to goback to this, I want to go to
that rail, I want to get atrick.
Had zero money.
We had to take the subway or thetrain.
The way I paid for the train, Iwent through all the couches in
the house because we rented ahouse and found change in the
cracks.
That's how I paid for me to getto that spot, and that ended up
being my first ad for Hurley.

(29:34):
Wow.
Yeah.
It's kind of random.
Sometimes you gotta show up andjust be there and the rest will
take care of itself.
Yeah, yeah.
And so, like during that time,that's like right after that
trip, I got put on Hollywoodskateboards, which was Chris
Markovich's.
And um, I already have been on acouple like, you know, domestic
trips, like R V trips around,you know, Canada and the US and
stuff.
But this is this is when Istarted traveling more um

(29:54):
internationally.
So like duffs, we'd go to Spainfor a couple of weeks, go to UK.
Um, With Tom Yetto Hollywoodskateboards was over my
Tommyetto.
We'd go to Sweden for a month ordo another Red Bull, you know,
RV trip across Canada orsomething like that.
So I started getting a lot oftraveling going on.
It was awesome.
And then a year later, her wemade a video when we were in

(30:15):
Hurley called TransmissionJapan.
And so I'm going to tell you mylove story because this is kind
of part of everything that we'regoing to talk about in the
future.
Beautiful.
Um, and so, you know, at thetime I lived in, I after the
first trip to Japan, I moved toFullerton with all the homies
from the trip in Japan.
We all got uh an apartmenttogether.
It looked like Melrose Place, sowe called it Hell Rose Place.

(30:36):
Yes.
Out of like 12 apartments, wehad like seven or eight of them
of all skateboarders.

SPEAKER_02 (30:40):
Wow.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (30:41):
And the landlords on a skate shop.
So you could just imagine andwe're like right outside of
downtown Fullerton.
Like, and at the time we likeall thought we were in the
strokes of the band or somethinglike that.
You know, like we all thought wewere rock stars.
Long hair.
I had long dyed black hair.
Like, yes, I have no hair now.
Um, so we're like full partyface, right?
And you're just raging andskating and like getting tricks,

(31:02):
getting clips all the time.
It was it was amazing.
Um, year later, from the videowe made in Japan, it was called
Transmission Japan.
We went back to premiere it.
So we went back for 10 days.
Okay.
And that was a fun trip.
On the way there, my roommateJ-Roy sat next to this lady that
was from Arizona that was goingto visit his daughter, right?
Her daughter.
We land, and J Roy comes up.

SPEAKER_00 (31:23):
He's like, Yeah, dude, I was sitting next to this
lady.
And she was telling me, like,you gotta get you gotta hang out
with my daughter.
She's a model, and all of herfriends and roommates are
models.
And we're like, dude, yeah,yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (31:32):
And we were kind of like, we were in that phase of
our life where we're actuallylike hanging out with models and
stuff, you know.
And we're like, dude, you gether number.
He's like, no, and we're like,You were literally the dumbest
person in life.
Yes.
Three days later, I see thelady, because I remember seeing
her on the plane.
I see the lady.
She's and she's white, right?
So it's really easy to spotpeople at this time in Japan.
And because normally you'retaller and white, right?
So I see her and she's with thiscutie.

(31:53):
So I walk up and say, Hey, we'reon your flight.
Like, hey, what's her name?
You know, got her number.
Her name's Meredith out ofGeorgia.
And we're there for just alimited amount of time.
And we had the sickest crewthere, dude.
Like Bob Bernquest, Rodrigo, TX,Markovich, Newt.
Like it was so good.
Um, and kept calling, trying tocall the number.
This is this is my love story.
Trying to call the number, shewasn't answering.

(32:14):
I was like, Oh, Lynn, she gaveus her own number.
Yeah.
Again, this is like Japan hadcell phones, but we didn't
really have cell phones yet.
This is like 2002 or one orsomething like that.
Um, this actually was 2003.
This was right at the beginningof 2003.
Um, so I think I had like abrick yellow phone cell phone
back in the States, but youknow, it didn't work in Japan.

(32:34):
Yeah.
So couldn't get a hold of them.
So we keep doing, you know,we're premiering the video at a
couple different places inJapan.
We're doing demos and stuff likethat.
Um, we kept going to this onebar called the Lexington, Club
Lexington.
It was in Rapungi.
It was the model bar, theinternational model bar.
So we were always going there,right?
Last night, the last night we'rethere, we get done doing a photo
shoot for Hurley.
So again, this is different thefirst time I'm like fully on the

(32:56):
team.
We go down to the bar, and rightwhen I walk in, this girl walks
up to me, and she's super hot.
And I come in, I'm wearingboots, boot cut jeans, tight as
hell, velvet rough, red crushedjacket, long black dyed hair and
sunglasses on.
Like, yeah, I thought it waslike a full rock.
I'm sorry, yeah.
So dumb.

(33:16):
And she's standing there, wekind of both walk up to each
other.
I put my sunglasses on her, andshe's like, Are you guys the
Hervey guys?
I'm like, What?
She's like, My best friend's momwas on the flight with you guys.
We've been waiting.
She points to all of herfriends.
They're all like smoking hot,dude.

SPEAKER_00 (33:33):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (33:34):
Because they're all like hybrid, like mixed.
Like my wife now, she's halfKorean, half um American, but
she looks Japanese, right?
And her friend was her friendwas white, but there was like
Canadians, Ukrainians, all sortsof sorts of stuff.
She points over.
I'm like, you guys have all beenwaiting for us to call you all
week.
I'm like, oh, we've blown itbecause it's our last night, you
know?
Yeah.
So I start dancing with her.
I grab her hand.
I it was like right when I mether.

(33:55):
I grab her hand, walk up to theDJ booth, exchange emails as
pre-cell phone.
I'm like, hey, let's keep intouch.
I'm leaving tomorrow.
And then uh request uh whitewedding from Billy Idol.

SPEAKER_00 (34:08):
Classic.

SPEAKER_01 (34:09):
And then, you know, hung out with her that night,
and then, you know, obviouslyleft and stuff like that
actually like it was a weirdsituation at the end because
there was another girl that Iwas gonna hang out with showed
up.
We weren't serious.
Um it was always a littlecomplicated.
Yeah, and I just met, I just metAngela too.
And so, like, we leave and thenyou know, a couple months we get
back home a couple months later.
I'm living with Fullerton andAngela email.

(34:30):
She's like, hey, I'm gonna moveto LA to model.
Um, do you know where I shouldmove and stuff like that?
I was like, hey, why don't youjust come stay with me for like
three days?
Perfect.
Right?
Come stay with me three days andyou can figure out where you're
gonna live.
So she goes back to Albuquerque,where she's from.
She drives all the way toFullerton.
Right when she shows up, it'spouring rain.

(34:50):
I'm driving the Duffs van, theskate van, it was the Astro van
at the time.
Right when she pulls up, I hadto drive Lizard King, who's from
Salt Lake.

SPEAKER_02 (34:58):
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (34:59):
I had to drive Lizard, and this is at the time
he's still Mike Plum, he'sliving under my kitchen table,
paying$150 a month to live onour kitchen table, right?
So he just came out.
Yes, right.
And I'm like, hey, I gotta take,I gotta take Lizard to the Long
Beach Airport.
And she she just showed up.
And I did, I mean it's been likeyou need to take who?
It's like six months after, likeI did, and I was like, wait, so

(35:20):
when I met it, right?
I'm like, whoa, she is wayhotter than I remember, like,
way too hot for me.
That was the better side of thethe drunk night out with Sun
Williams.
Oh, 100%.
Yeah, yeah.
So I was like, hey, we gottatake Lizard to the Long Beach
Airport.
We just jump in with us,correct?
Jumps in, it's a 45-minutedrive, it's pouring rain the
whole time.
Windshield wipers don't work.

(35:41):
So she gets off of like a14-hour drive into this astro
van with these two dirtbagskaters.
We have our hands out the frontwindow wiping the windshield
because we couldn't see.
Yeah, luckily, lizard and I arepretty funny.
So, like, we're just likekeeping her laughing the whole
time, right?
Drop them off.
I come back, get back to theirapartment, walk her in, power

(36:02):
shut off in my apartment.
So I had J-Roy sitting there,he's playing his guitar, candles
are lit, and I was like, dude,what?
I was like, Oh, I forgot to paythe power bill again.
I was like, you gotta be fuckinghitting me, dude.
Um, and also I don't know what Iwas thinking of asking her to
come stay with me.
I in my room alone, it's likeyou had a plan.
You're just like, girls cominghere, I have a place.
Clayton, come here.

(36:23):
We smoked cigarettes inside.
The only thing in the fridge wasbeer and mold, right?
My room, I had a bunk bed.
I was on the bottom of the bunkbed.
Mark White from Salt Lake, hewas our filmer at the time, was
up on top of me.
And DJ Chavez, who owns Lows, heowns Kingswell Skate Shop in LA
now, but he's from Albuquerque,he had a mattress on the ground
next to it.
That's that was my room.

(36:43):
I was like, Yeah, come share myyou know, you could sleep in the
bed or he's the number four inour room.
Like yeah, totally.
So, like we show back up, powershut off.
I was like, Oh crap, let's go upto Nugia's apartment.
Luckily, we had all theseapartments, right?
So we go up to Nuges, and youknow, he had power and
everything.
We get it, we get a poker gamegoing.
All the homies are we're allthere, and she's like one of two
women there.

(37:03):
She wins the poker game.
Wow.
First time.
We had homies like Jason Masseyand Corey Shepard like storm out
of the department, pissed thatthis girl just showed up and won
the poker game.
I think she just learned thatday, too, or something.
Um, and uh I mean, unique storyto get there, but then we just
never left left each other'sside.
Cool, yeah.

(37:24):
Eventually we all moved to LAtoo after Fullerton.
Got it.
Yeah, you man, that's we're allover the place.
I mean, that's why I'm sayingthat's why I love that story
because I I will I'm always thefan of more context is better
than less contacts.
Because hey, it's beenphenomenal.
And I always love like I mean, Ihave a deep appreciation because
like I can I hear these storiesand I have enough of them to
like I know exactly what you'retalking about showing up to the

(37:46):
hash like, oh there's a mattressthere, there's there, there's a
gas tray over the so dirty.
And it it is, but it's like alsojust it's still home.
Yeah, and everyone's again justlike yeah, oh dude, it was the
funnest time of life.
Scout apartment, it was insane.
Yeah, but I did warn you I wasgonna brain dump.
So I if I brain dumping ishappening.
I had to be like, all right, soanyway, moving on.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, so cool.
So you guys end up, I mean, andyou're in Florida, and you go

(38:08):
down to LA.
Yeah, we all moved to LA, all ofus did.
Um, we all got a coupledifferent places.
We had a place in Gower andFranklin right behind the
one-on-one cafe that was a ahouse that was gonna get torn
down.
So I was gonna move in there.
I didn't because my brotherdecided to move from Wisconsin
to LA.
So I grabbed an apartment withhim not long, not far away.
My and my now current wife gother own apartment for a minute,

(38:30):
and then the Hellrose crew got ahouse.
It was like party house, rightin Hollywood, dude.
Yeah, like where when they allmoved out when the the lease was
up because they were gonna tearthe house down to build a
parking lot.
Like, we had a going away partywith axes and hammers.
Like full on, just hammering thewall and breaking.
And the guys didn't care thatyou're turning it down.

(38:50):
You're saving them money, yeah.
But that was like that was arager house, dude.
That was that was wild.
I'm glad that it like it's itsproper funeral of like we're
moving out, we're gonna break itdown, and we're all just gonna
go.
It was amazing.
And it was in such a good spot.
You could walk to the beauty barand like the club, all the
different clubs and things likethat.
So we were there, we were in LAfor two years, and you know, I
was still still pretty much onall the same sponsors and

(39:12):
traveling, you know, travelingthe world, going on tours,
places, and stuff.
And it was like an it was aninsane, amazing time of my life.
It was the golden era ofskateboarding.
Yeah, that era is like no socialmedia.
You can go, like I was saying,you go live in Barcelona for two
weeks or something.
This was before Airbnb, butsomehow we'd find apartments.
Yeah, I don't even know how wedid it actually.
Um, you go live there, you get acouple photos, a couple video

(39:33):
clips.
It's like this is a horribleterm for it, but I call it
lifestyle skating because itwasn't like competitive skating.
It was like you're going thereand you're partying and you're
getting a couple photos, acouple video clips, and that was
totally worth it, right?
You get a you know, one or twophotos in a magazine, get some
photo instead of, get a coupleclips in a video, and you just
went and lived in MarshallArnold for two weeks.
Yeah.
It was awesome.
Like, I'm a believer likebecause I hate competitive

(39:55):
skating, skateboarding,snowboard, like everything
because it's like, oh, well, hetweakes ink.
Like, no, it changes it.
Yeah, yeah.
It's just not you can't applythat lens to it when there's so
much more artistry.
Yeah.
As much as the words ever used,like culture behind it.
Yeah.
And that's what makes it allthat it is.
Heavy culture at the time wasvery it was also very much like
a creative outlet, and you alsohad a ton of like mom and pop

(40:17):
brands.
Yeah.
Like it wasn't like Nike wasn'tin Nike tried to come in late
90s with shoes, they got theirbutts whooped, they had to leave
the skate industry.
Well, their first shoe to shoewas called the Chowed.
And it will you know, it didn'twork out first for them.
So you still had all like thecore skate shoe brands, the core
board companies, the core beforethey became behemoth before
there's like four companies now,you know what I mean?

(40:38):
And so you you were out actuallyable to make somewhat of a
living, right?
Like I was like B-levelskateboarder, right?
So I would you know, even making25 or three grand a month in
those times, early 2000s, waslike totally enough, you know,
you weren't saving money, butyou were getting wild life
experiences.
Yeah, like crazy life.
I mean, you were getting fightsin Oklahoma and Sweden.

(40:58):
Which is so because like I Ihave enough friends that have
been, I mean, pro skateboarders,pro-skiers, pro-snowboarders,
that it's kind of like these 20swhere they're like, I got to do
it all.
It was my college years, yeah.
Yeah, 100% of my college years.
I mean, obviously subjectively,but like way better education
than sitting in a classroomlearning about accounting.
I mean, I got I got and youknow, when people ask me, did
you go on a mission?
I'm like, yeah, I went on amission of of the hard knocks.

(41:20):
Yeah.
I got full life skills in thoseyears by just being places and
being around people and gettingunique experiences.
I mean, I'm you know, I'mgrateful I made it out alive.
Yeah, you know what I mean,guys.
There were there were multiple,multiple times.
There's people that didn't,yeah.
Whether it was drugs orwhatever, but there's multiple
times like I actually almostdied.

(41:41):
Like two big Nigerian dudesalmost killed me in Tokyo, like
broken bottle, glass to thethroat.
We want to hear that storybecause it's so good.
We can't so this is before I metmy wife.
We come out.
This is when we were livingthere for a month.
We come out of the clubLexington, that bar in Rip
Hungy, walk in with likeRodrigo, Bob, Bernquist, Nugge,
J.
Roy, and Rodrigo had these twogirls, Japanese girls, and we're

(42:01):
just like raging.
We're like, yeah, let's go backto the house.
We get out to the to the road,out of the alley to the road,
and all of a sudden, like ascuffle happens.
I don't even know what happened.
And but it was something to dowith the girls or something, and
it wasn't, it was like a anotherJapanese guy or something.
And uh, those were my fightingdays in those days.
So I'm like, Oh, what's goingon?
Yeah, you're just itching.
Pick, I pick up a beer bottle,an empty beer bottle on the

(42:24):
street.
Literally, the second I pickedit up, I was pushed against a
wall by this six foot eightNigerian dude, because they kind
of like run that area.
Yeah, he grabbed the bottle,broke it, and had it up in my
throat within like it was likeJason Born shit, dude.
Like within a half a second.
I'm sitting there like this, I'mlike, no, no, it's all good,

(42:44):
it's all good.
Bob Rucos' brother-in-law,Bruno, passious.
I'll just do my life.
I could I like anytime I seehim, I tell him this.
His dad was like a famouscapoeira dude from Brazil.
I see this fool, like literally,like in my eyes, I was drunk,
but in my eyes it was likeSuperman flying.
Like over people, because it wasa big scuffle happening, right?
Fucking punched the dude, gotthe it so it made the beer

(43:07):
bottle go away, right?
Like, literally saved my life,right?
Punches the dude.
We all get up and we all justtake off running.
So we're there's like sevendudes and two girls running away
from these.
Like at that point, these dudesjust came out of the crack in
the wall, dude.
Yeah, there's probably likethree or four like Nigerian
dudes running after us, andthey're scary.
Yes, they're fucking scary,dude.

(43:28):
We're running, we all dive intoa cab, like literally, are like
we're like sandwiched on top ofeach other, like laying on the
seat, and we're like, go, go,go, go.
Cab took off, we were safe.
But that was one of those timesI should have died.

SPEAKER_02 (43:40):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (43:41):
That's amazing.
Yeah, it was a fun one.

SPEAKER_02 (43:44):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (43:45):
Man, so we're out.
Yeah, so we're in LA.
Yeah.
Yeah, we're in LA.
LA was a fun time, but it's alsolike this is right around the
recession was starting.
So we lived in a coupledifferent places in LA.
Like, you know, lived in thatplace, live an apartment, moved
out with my brother, me andAngela got a place with another
homie, Garrister and his wife inSilver Lake.
And then it was right aroundthat time where we stopped, we

(44:08):
had a board company calledHellrose.
That didn't work out with thedistributor, so we shut that
down.
And then then I got anotherboard company.
But it was like starting to bethe time where I'm like, if I
stay in LA, I don't know if I'mgonna last very much longer.
Got it, you know, because we'reraging.

SPEAKER_02 (44:22):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (44:22):
And so I needed to pick up some more money those
last few months in LA.
So I I was still getting somesponsorship dollars, but I
started bus, I starteddelivering pizzas, and I was
just like, I don't know, man.
Like I'm 25 at the time.
And I was still like, I wasprobably in my prime for skating
at that time because I I hadlike probably 20 hours and hours
of skating.
Like I was really good, but Iwas just like, I was smoking a

(44:44):
lot of weed, yeah, like an ouncea week.
Yeah, it was ridiculous.
And so like I was like skating aton, but it was more, I wasn't
like motivated.
I wasn't like, I'm gonna make itas I'm gonna keep going, I'm
gonna hit as I'll see the personthat just shows up on the trip
is gone.
Totally, yeah.
It was starting to fade a littlebit, but I was still like so
passionate about skating.
So it was just I wasn't goingwhere I thought I could go, and

(45:06):
it was brilliant, I was justkind of being lazy.
And so right around that time,my mom, I was on a trip in
Houston for a tour.
My mom had a stroke.
I got a call in the hotel room.
I was like, what?
And it was a really bad, badone.
So I come back home.
We still living in LA, and I waslike, oh man, this is like this
is serious shit.
Yeah, so go back to LA and afterthat lease ran up in Silver

(45:29):
Lake, where me and my wife, mygirlfriend at the time were
living.
I was like, should we dosomething else?
You know, like recession wasjust starting.
Yeah, right.
This is a hard conversation tohave when it's been your life
for the last 10 years.
And she's been modeling, shestarted modeling at 14.
Like my literally, my wife movedto Japan at 14 by herself.
Her parents were okay with it.
That's insane.

(45:49):
Yeah, I mean, Tokyo's the safestcity, so she's got a wild story
in herself.
So we're like, okay, do we movesomewhere?
We're we're broke, right?
We're still making money, she'sstill modeling, and but it's not
like how you think, like, oh,these dudes are balling a new
car.
You know, it's like, you know,you're you're pulling in three
grand a month or four grand amonth or something like that.
And so we're like, do we go toAlbuquerque, figure out what to

(46:12):
do there, or we go to St.
George?
I'm like, dude, I did not wantto go to Albuquerque.
That's too far.
Because I was still, I was stillhad a probe war, I still was
skating, and my wife's stillmodern.
I'm like, dude, let's go to St.
George six-hour drive.

SPEAKER_02 (46:22):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (46:22):
So we were the first two years of being in St.
George.
So we came back, we got married,got back to be around my
parents.
Fine, Mom, I'll get married.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, we came back and we stayedat my parents' house for like
three months, and they made usstay in different rooms until we
got married.
It was pretty funny.
Um, and so we were coming backall the time, like two weeks out
of the month, I was traveling.
Cool, right?

(46:42):
So I was still on Hurley.
Um, she was still coming downfor like modeling gigs and stuff
like that.
So it was a good place for us tokind of start slowly tapering
out of California and the skateworld.
Um, and I still think aboutskating every day, you know, so
it wasn't like a totalintentional thing.
But what I didn't want to do isget too like older and older and
just like be a team manager.

(47:03):
And partly there's no knock onteam managers, but I was a kid
being managed by a team manager.
I know how shitty I was.
So I just didn't want to dealwith that.
Turn around and deal with likefive or six.
100%.
Yeah, yeah.
I didn't want to deal with that.
And so um, for two years, Istill was skating, right?
So I wasn't going back to schoolor anything like that.
It was like 26 to 27, 28.

(47:26):
And then I started doing somewindow washing on the side.
I started a window washingcompany because I did one in my
teenage years to pick up someextra income.
So still trade traveling all thetime, but the recession was
hitting hard then.
And so that's when like theHurley dollars dried up, they
like let go of 90% of the team.
Yeah, um, Duff's dollars driedup, so I was just basically
getting royalties from boards.
So it wasn't enough money.
So I was like, yeah, I gottafigure out what to do, right?

(47:47):
So I started, I went back tocollege to get my associates,
right?
At like 29, which is reallyfucking hard.
Right.
I was that to be like, allright, back to a classroom.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But it but I, you know, the onething is I transitioned over a
long over like a three, fouryear period to to out of that
lifestyle slowly.
It wasn't just a like abruptdraw, like it you're done,

(48:09):
right?
Like you have to go do somethingnow.
Like it wasn't like, oh, I'mdone with skating to school the
next day.
Yeah, right.
Like I was still traveling andthen the two weeks turned into
one week out of the month to,you know, things like that.
So I was still skating everyday, um, and you know, picking
up some siding cups and stufflike that.
Um, but towards the end, this islike core recession hard, right?

(48:30):
Hard, you know, it was hard foreveryone.
So I started going back to getmy associates and yeah, I had to
start like 990 math and English.
Like it was top dude.
It sucked.
I was never gonna guess.
Um, so over the next two years,I did that, got my associates,
and then right when I graduatedfrom my associates, uh, I was
like, what do I do?

(48:51):
Like, we didn't have kids yet.
We're we're just got I've Ithink I was 30, 30 or 31 at the
time.
So I'm I'm like a late bloomerin the education side.

SPEAKER_02 (49:01):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (49:01):
But I had all this like you know real world
experience stuff.
Um, my wife was going to schoolthe whole time after we moved
back too.
So she got her she got herbachelor's in graphic design
like a year after I got myassociates.
So that summer, I'm like, whatdo I do?
Like, skating's not gonna workout.
I'm like, I'm too old to liketry to make it again.
And so um my brother was at GoalZero.

(49:25):
Goal Zero is fresh, like half ayear in.
He calls me up and he's like,hey, we're doing this event in
in Whistler called Crankworks,the mountain bike event.
He's like, we have to drive a12-passenger van up pulling a
trailer.
He's like, no one's ever donethat before.
I was like, dude, I fucking havedrove across the country so many
times with 12 passenger vans andRVs.
I was like, dude, I'm in.

(49:46):
I literally have nothing goingright now.
I'm trying to figure out what todo.
So contract job, 10 days, driveup to Salt Lake, because that
was where Go Zero is based.
I was we were living in St.
George.
Yeah, pick up the van, 12passenger lifted van pulling a
26-foot trailer that weighed10,000 pounds.
He didn't warn me about that.
Yeah, I couldn't drive over 55miles an hour the whole way,

(50:07):
right?
So I met a couple of the guysfrom Go Zero.
Again, this is fresh.
This is like first year at GoZero.

SPEAKER_02 (50:11):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (50:12):
They jump in the van.
I think one dude dared to drive,but other than that, I drove the
whole way.
So we drove all the way toSeattle, stayed at one of the Go
Zero employees' family's housein Seattle, and then drove up to
to Crankworks in Whistler.
And 10-day event.
I was the only one out of thecrew that stayed the whole time.
So the other people came, flewin and out, you know, like they

(50:33):
were it was like the first halfcrew and then the second half
crew came, right?
So we have this big trailer.
I'm in Whistler activating 10days, and you know, in the
skating world, like you're doingtours and demos and signings and
stuff like that.
So you're used to like it's justlike, let's go, let's go.
Get the energy, like you'retalking to people.
Yeah, just managing it all.
And so going from skating tothat, like event activation, and

(50:56):
especially like I startedlearning about the goals here
products, and they had a limitedassortment at the time, but it
was like, dude, portable solarpanel that I could plug my
fucking phone into, littlebattery packs, like this stuff
is sick.

SPEAKER_02 (51:07):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (51:07):
So did that event, drove the van back, um, back to
Salt Lake, and I called mybrother after.
He was like the I think he wasthe president or something.
I think it was either the VPSLsor president.
I think he was the president.
So I called him, I was like,dude, I'm so into this product.
Like, let me, I I have no ideawhat I could do for you.
Let me come work for you.

(51:28):
He's like, dude, I can't hireyou.
He's like, then I'll have tofire you eventually.
You know?
So it's like, okay, whatever.
Um, but hire me for contractstuff.
So they hired me and my wife torun outdoor to to work the
outdoor retailer booth one day,one year, and she didn't know
anything about the product, butshe was the booth babe, and
their Japanese distributorsweren't even Japanese
distributors.
They weren't yet.
But after they talked to Angela,because she spoke some Japanese,

(51:50):
they're like they they theylocked in.
It was amazing.
Then they hired me for one moreevent, and it was a PR event
because I became friends withthe three man, three per not
three man, there was a onethere, but like three-person
marketing team, right?
It was like fresh, fresh.
It was like their first year.
They called me up and they'relike, hey, we're doing a PR
event in Lake Powell and a houseboat.
Can you come and be our like ourour athlete?

(52:12):
You know, because I was still Istill had a pro board at the
time.
I was like, Yeah, I'll come out.
I remember in Lake Powell, whichis crazy because I grew up
stairs.
I was gonna say that's why no.
Um, and so my my mom was we hada houseboat growing up, but us
younger kids were never allowedto go because she was afraid
we're all gonna drown.
So the first time I actually dida full like week at Lake Pal was
in June this year.
And it's insane.

(52:33):
So go out there, I go out forlike two, two or three days or
whatever.
Um, you know, it was a BruderFinn PR agency out of New York,
so they brought in like men'sjournal, all its magazine, and
all these big, big publications,right?
And living on a houseboat, andwe have solar power and stuff
like that.
So I leave that event and the VPof Cells, Bart Miller, stud, he
needed to ride back to St.

(52:53):
George to catch a flight, right?
So I'm like, dude, jump in thecar with me.
Let's let's become homies,right?
Drive back, almost hit a deer,literally saved our lives.
Driving like a Honda Cross trackor whatever you're called.
It was crazy.
But we became homies.
And right before that, I'mtalking to my two older brothers
who are kind of like my mentorsand they're very successful.
One lives here, Drew Akininvests in companies, ran, he,

(53:16):
you know, was at goal zero,mountain ops, spare bones, all
these places.
And my other brother is like areally big-time lawyer at LA.
And I was like, dude, you guys,I don't know what to do.
I'm like, I'm coming fromskateboarding, that's not
applicable to anything.
And they're like, well, let'stalk about some of your
experiences.
So we talk about it.
And they're like, dude, you'vebeen doing marketing for 15
years.
Yeah.
I'm like, that's marketing?
Because I would work with likethe creative team in Hurley to

(53:37):
put ad concept.
But they would never tell youwhat what you're doing from like
a like a corporate land.
No, like I we even the boardcompany we owned for a little
bit called Hellrose, we'd putour we'd put our tours together,
you'd call up skate shops, hey,we're gonna be there, let's do a
demo, you know, stuff like that.
I'm like, that's marketing, youknow, like advertising and like,
you know, uh customer engagementand all that kind of stuff.
I was like, dude, that's funshit.

(53:58):
So I'm like, okay, maybe I'llget maybe I'll go into
marketing, right?
So we get back from the the PRevent, and that week I signed up
for an online marketing degreeat Western Governors up here,
right?
Because I'm like, I don't knowif I could stay in St.
George, because at the timethere weren't weren't
opportunities, right?
That's we functionable.
This is pre-COVID, right?
You guys live wherever you want.

(54:19):
And so I signed up for my onlinemarketing degree.
Right after the day after Isigned up for that, Bart Miller
calls me.
He's like, hey, come work forme.
I I'm in sales, but I needsomeone.
I'm I'm not getting what I keepI need from the marketing team
because there's like threepeople.
Yeah, he's like, I need someone,I need like a content
specialist, someone that couldget on a Best Buy, Bass Pro,
Cabela's, Lowe's.

(54:40):
They were just this is theirfirst year.
This is the year they went fromthey grew 17,000.
So they went from like 900 grandin sales to 17 million one year.

SPEAKER_00 (54:48):
Wow.

SPEAKER_01 (54:49):
And so he's like, Work Bart was killer, dude.
He opened up all these accounts.
Him and my brother Joe just wentout and opened up all these
accounts, right?
And they're like, We don't havethe assets for these guys for
like their websites and stuff.
So I was like, dude, I'll comework for you.
Right.
I'm living in St.
George at the time.
So I drive up.
My brother didn't know I workedfor Gold's Era for a whole week.

(55:11):
So Bart just went totally aroundhim, right?
He's like, Where's my brother?
He's like, yo, yeah, I showed upat the office one day, he's
like, What are you doing?
I was like, I'm on the salesteam.
Um so I start.
This is so this this was myfirst again, talking about
steps.
You know, I didn't know what todo, and I had these little
things going on, but then it wasthis like behavioral moment or

(55:32):
psychological moment where Irealized I'm like after talking
to my brothers, I was like,dude, that's marketing.
Like, I like that.
I like building energy, I likebuilding brands, I like you
know, talking with people, andand I like products.
I like products I believed inthat I could be passionate
about.
And so that was a step.
I'm like, I'm going tomarketing, right?
And luckily, this door opened upfor me at goal zero.
Like it, I owe BART my wholecareer because like that is

(55:55):
that's where I got my MBA.
I didn't get a real a real MBAon paper, but the the way we
grew, and I'll tell you a coupleexperiences.
So I get over, I'm in the salesteam doing marketing, right?
Digital content marketing,right?
I'm the lowest of the lowestpayroll, everything.
I'm like barely scraping by.
I'm living in St.
George, and he's like, Okay, weneed copy and we need photos up

(56:17):
on all these websites.
So I like go to the market team,I was like, hey, do you guys
have this stuff?
And they're like, not really.
So I literally, and they justhired a CMO the same day I hired
they hired me.
Yeah.
So I went and rewrote, I wroteall like they had kind of a
website, but I just like wroteall the copy.
I didn't have any experience todoing this.

SPEAKER_02 (56:31):
Yeah, he was like, All right, I'll just do it.

SPEAKER_01 (56:33):
Wrote all the copy, built a little studio in my in
my townhome in St.
George, little white, tiny, tinystudio, right?
Took a bunch of photos, got twohomies, Bob Plum and um this
kid, Randy Delucci, to come takelifestyle photos with me.
So I would like come up herebecause I would shoot with Bob
all the time because it's alizard brother.
I was like, hey, let's justthrow a solar panel in this bag

(56:54):
and grab this kid that's workingat Starbucks, who I happen to be
homies with now that lives inSt.
George.
And he because he reminds me, hewas like, Remember that time you
just grabbed me to go do a photoshoot?
And so this was like, I didn'tknow what I was doing, really.
Like, I you know, you kind ofdid some of that stuff in
skating, but this is like actuallike real business shit.
Yeah, right.
So in two months, wrote all theproduct copy, took studio photos

(57:15):
in my room, got lifestylephotos, got up on all those
platforms to work with, youknow, the big dogs in retail.
That was like my first four wayinto like working with like the
digital and the marketing teamsat these places.
So after two months being insales, the CMO um who came over
from Maui Gym, he comes over,he's like, uh, James, you're
doing marketing.

(57:35):
You should just come tomarketing.
I was like, sure, whatever.
Yeah, yeah.
And Bart was pissed, and he'skind of still pissed at me that
I did that.
But went over to marketing, andthat's when it was like my my
opportunities just like openedup and exploded.
Yeah.
Because we were growing superfast.
And so, and I it my pat the thethe reason why the marketing

(57:56):
thing and the product thingworked for me, because like in
skating, you're like you'rehungry, dude.
You're just like thinking abouttricks all day long, you know,
using your feet when you'redriving, you're like doing
kickflips in your mind over fireeye drinks and stuff like that.
Yeah, everything you're lookingat every rail, every stair side
that you drive behind.
And you do it, and you just doit like I seven days a week for
20 years, unless I got a rolledankle or something, right?
Or broken ribs or whatever itis.

(58:17):
Yeah, and that's that clickedfor me in the outdoor industry
and in products.
So that's right, the thewhistler event is when that
started clicking for me.
I was like starting gettingpassionate, right?
And so I get over there and I'mjust like gung-ho, dude, like
fucking full pedal.
It was it was literally likeputting on magnet gloves and
jumping on the side of a bullettrain.
Well, it's like I love that youhave this.

(58:38):
You when you were 25, you'relike, I've lost my energy for
this.
Yeah.
Like, I don't know what I wantto do at LA, do all this, and
then all of a sudden you'relike, we're back.
Back.
And and I was 31.

SPEAKER_00 (58:47):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (58:48):
And my wife just got pregnant.
And so I'm like, we didn't haveinsurance, right?
And she's type one diabetic, soit was like just crazy times,
right?
I'm like, I need a job that wecan get insurance.
This just happened to pop up.
Again, it wasn't even through mysibling, which was amazing.
There was no nepotism, it wasactually anti-nepotism.
Yeah, right.
And so um, I get in there andthe marketing team was they're

(59:10):
fresh too.
They're this is 2011.
This is social media coming in,digital e-commerce, all this
stuff.
And most people didn't know whatto do, you know.
And Chris, who came over as aCMO, he came from our gym, and
this is a traditional world,right?
Print advertising, eventmarketing, you know, things like
that, which a lot of that stuffoutside of print mac uh print
advertising coming back.
Yeah, you know, it's not justall e-commerce these days, but

(59:31):
um, I was like, hey, okay, I'mdoing the digital content stuff.
I'm like, who's running social,who's doing social media?
And in skating, we were early onon Instagram, yeah, right.
And so I'm like, who's runningsocial?
And I but I didn't know how todo it for a brand.
And they're like, well, there'slike seven people.
I was like, okay, can I take it?
And they're like, yeah, take it.
So I just focused on social forsix months and was doing the

(59:52):
content stuff, but I was like,you know, all the posting, the
strategy, meeting with all thedifferent brands in the valley,
calling other people.
I was calling like Cliff BarnPull.
Or stuff and all these people.
I'm like, yo, I just want tolearn from you or getting
connections.
You know, I was it was thathunger, right?
Like it was like nothing's gonnabe my looking for a couch to
sleep on.
You're looking for people to, Imean, partner with and it's
funny, you know, like when youreach out to people and you're

(01:00:14):
just totally vulnerable andempathetic, like, dude, I love
what you're doing.
Like, I have no fucking ideawhat I'm doing.
Yeah, like how do you do this?
Right.
So within six months, I becamelike really good on got our
social, dialed in, and then Iwas able to hire someone, right?
And then I went to the CMO, Iwas like, what else?
What like can I take over?
Can I take over events?
Cool, took over events.

(01:00:34):
And then this weird thinghappened one year.
So I I social hired the bestdude, Brian Bayless, who lives
here in town.
And I hope he watches thisbecause I love him and I miss
him.
Um, he's gone on to startmultiple brands and stuff like
that, like super successful.
But it was he was like soperfect for that role, right?
And then he did video for us andstuff.
We started basically that wasthe start of building this

(01:00:55):
insane team that we had of allthe stuff in the brand building
we did for Goal Zero.
Like, we we made the brand goyeah, like it passed revenue.
Like the brand was peoplethought we were 200 million
dollar company, we're doing 30billion, you know what I mean?
And so I take over like events,and then no October, October or

(01:01:16):
November 2012.
I I oh I took over athletesactually right before that.
Because they had become the teammanager.
I did, I dude, I became the teammanager, and it was so funny
because they had sponsoredpeople they were working with.
Like they had like Renan Osturkand Jimmy Chan, but he left
right before I got there, andthey had like this pro bass
fisherman, they had um EricLarson, the Polar Explorer, and

(01:01:38):
all these people.
They didn't know what to do withthem.
And I was like, dude, that is mybackground.
Let me take this on, right?
So I put I put a whole programtogether, like contracts,
agreements, what we're gonna do,create relationships.
Well, that year I put on AlexHonnold, I put on um Mike
Lebecki, he's a local guy here,and Chris Burkhard.
And Chris Burkhard was still aphotographer surfer.
Like like we were like his firstlegit sponsor, right?

(01:02:00):
And Alex, like you know, thiswas right when Alex was becoming
popular in um in climbing.
It was 2012.
So I and then we sponsored RealRock and I became homies with
Rur Rock, big climbing, youknow, production.
Fucking awesome dudes.
So I remember a conversation Ihad with with one of the dudes
from Roc who's lives in NewYork, and he starts telling me

(01:02:23):
about I asked him, was like,hey, that last hurricane I saw
in the news, like what whathappened?
And he's like, dude, my powershut off for three weeks.
So this is the end of 2012,right?
Election year happened, Obamaand Mitt go in battle, right?
I see, I'm I'm go, I we've movedup to Lehigh, so I'm living at
the point of the mountain.

(01:02:43):
I'm down in St.
George visiting and I see allthe news coming about Hurricane
Sandy, right?

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:47):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:48):
I didn't oversee anything with our NGO stuff
because Goal Zero was founded asa nonprofit in the Democratic
Republic of Congo and thenturned into like, whoa, this is
an actual business.
Yeah.
By Robert Workman, who's alegend.
Like the cricket machine, RobertStarts and Kraft, bare bones.
Yeah, Robert started Goal Zeroas the rich white guy in Congo
trying to make a difference,right?
That that was how it started.
And then he's like, Well, wecould package this right and

(01:03:10):
make a product.
And it was like, we bulldozedthat market.
That market was like a threemillion dollar market when we
entered.
We did 17 after 18 months.
Wow.
Right.
So there was always this likegive back component of our
business, but there was nostructure to it.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:24):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:24):
Right.
So Hurricane Sandy's coming up.
I don't see that part over partof the business.
And I and I'm in St.
George's Sunday night, and likegot this feeling from that
conversation I had with the realrock.
I was like, we should dosomething.
Something.
This is looking bad.
Yeah.
And just based off hisexperience, not having power for
three weeks, I'm like, we couldactually do something.
Got in my car immediately, droveup, called our guy who did NGO
sells.

(01:03:44):
I was like, meet me at theoffice.
We go to the office, put thiswhole plan together four hours.
And it was uh, how can we howcan we help what's good what's
about to happen?
Because something's gonnahappen.
If it doesn't, then we'llwhatever.
Yeah, we'll just back it all upand go.
It's it's kind of a mantra Ilive.
Like, you miss every every shotyou you don't take.
Like you hear that fromeveryone, but it's true.
Like if you're not out thereswinging, you're not getting

(01:04:06):
hits, yeah, right.
And so we put a proposaltogether.
I call the CMO and he's like,dude, we can't do this.
We're not ready.
We don't have the bandwidth orwe're we don't have the tools to
do this.
So being the skateboarder whodoesn't like authority, went
around and proposed it to theboard.
We proposed it to the board.
I'm like a specialist at thetime.
No, I was like a I I I can'tremember what it was.

(01:04:28):
Um we just it's funny too,because we just brought on um a
director of marketing orsomething.
They came from Skull Candy,Jonathan Monk, who's still a
good homie.
So he wasn't like the top of thetop, but he was just coming in,
right?
And so literally went around andproposed it to the board.
And I'm talking about like theCEO of Kroger and Fraser and
Frazier Boloch, like the guy whogot the Olympics here.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:51):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:52):
And because Ryan knew those guys, so I I we he
called Robert, who was the CEOand the president, or he was the
CEO, Joe was the president andthe owner.
Um, and they're like, dude, itwas a plan to do a BOGO, buy
one, give one, and we're gonnatake we're gonna take the risk
and we're gonna fill up a dieselwith six hundred thousand

(01:05:12):
dollars of product and we'regonna start driving to New York.
This is before Sandy even hit.
Yeah, right.
So the board approves it, theCMO's pissed at me.
The next day, literally, you hadthe CEO of Kroger at the
warehouse packing boxes and putfilling it into a trailer,
right?
Again, I'm running social mediaand I'm kind of like kind of
managing our athletes at thesame time, too, right?

(01:05:35):
Um, so I'm like, okay, fuck it,we're on, right?
So we fill up the diesel, sendit off its way.
I'm like, yeah, we got fourpeople.
You were the one driving itagain this time.
Well, yeah, well, this time Iwanted to get out there because
we we hired a logistics firm, ofcourse, right?
As you would.
I know, but that would have beenso fun.
Yeah, and so this is on day one.
I fly out there and I took fouremployees, right?

(01:05:57):
Again, I'm like the lowest ofthe totem pole, dude.
I don't even know how this shitgot approved.
It's insane, but it was a wildidea, right?
So we we launched the BOGO.
It was like right when thehurricane hit, and it was bad,
right?
We our power was already shutoff.
You knew it was gonna happen,right?
They ended up not having powerfor like three months, yeah,
right.
So I we got with the sales team,we said, hey, call REI, call

(01:06:18):
Lowe's, call Best Buy, callanyone, and do a BOGO.
We'll lose money on thoseproduct products, but if they
push this, that's huge for ourbrand.
Yeah, dude, you had Lowe's doinga BOGO.
You had our like, I can'tremember if IRI, but it was buy
one, give one.
Our sales increased 400% thatmonth.
Wow.
Yeah.
And it wasn't even about sales,it was like mine was an
empathetic, and even Robert, thefounder, this is why we this is

(01:06:40):
why the brand started.
I was like, we got to be outthere to help provide power
until power can come back on,right?
Right.
So I'm running social media, I'mboarding a flight, I'm running
our Twitter and Instagram, I'mposting, there's more on Twitter
these days.
I'm like, hey, is anyone in NewYork like we're coming out with
portable solar generators,power, like battery generators?

(01:07:01):
We need to figure out how to getthis to people, right?
This dude from Salt Lake, Aaron,tweets back, he followed us, and
we're we're literally a year anda half in business.
And he's like, hey, I'm goingout there right now with Team
Rubicon.
Team Rubicon, it's a biggerorganization right now, but it
just started.
So it's basically veterans andit's a nonprofit where they

(01:07:21):
bring veterans in, you know, tohelp give them something to do
to still give back.
Yeah, right.
But their whole premise wasbridge the gap.
Bridge the gap from somethinglike a disaster to when FEMA
comes in.
FEMA's super slow, a lot of redtape, experienced it firsthand.
I was angry for a long time atthe government in when I was out
there.
So he's like, okay, cool.

(01:07:44):
Let's connect.
So I was like, okay, where areyou saying?
He's like, we're we we'resetting up shop at Brooklyn
Boulders, which is a climbinggym in Brooklyn.
I was like, okay, I'm gonna meetyou there.
Right?
Our truck's not there yet.
So we go over there, I was like,there's like 20 people for Team
Rubicon.
They're like now thousands ofpeople, right?
And it turned into a longrelationship where we did
disaster relief in thePhilippines and all sorts of

(01:08:04):
places with those guys.
So we show up and we're like,okay, we have all this product
coming, but like what do we do?
They're like, well, we have oneway in.
Team Rubicon was testingPalantir at the time.
All right.
Which now is like wild shit.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:18):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:18):
But at the time, it was like really helpful because
when you go into like differentareas, like we were in the
Rockaways, like on Long Islandand just on the other side of
Brooklyn, and you're like, okay,barely using cell phones at the
time, but this app was able tosay, like, hey, this home right
here, and it's all targeted,like geo-targeted and everything
mapped.
It's like they need this, theyneed this, they need a shovel,
they need this.

(01:08:38):
Because when we got out there,they team Rubicon helped us with
the distribution, but our wholeteam, we're out there, we're
like literally bucking water,bucking uh bucking waters out of
people's basement.
Like it was devastating, dude.
Like, I I remember an87-year-old lady, her whole
house was completely destroyed.
Her husband just died.
All of her remembrance ofanything was underwater.

(01:08:58):
You know what I'm saying?
And they it was a lot of thatareas didn't have water for for
three months.
It was gnarly.
So I was out there for a weekand I'm running social the whole
time, like updating ourfollowers.
I'm driving over the BrooklynBridge, updating, tweeting.
Everyone else in the car ispanicking, pooping themselves.
What the fuck is that?
You still gotta get the tweetout, guys.
Oh, yeah.
I because I was like, I wentfrom that my mindset of skating

(01:09:20):
of just hunger and falling andgetting up and falling up.
I'm like, fucking doing thisshit, dude.
No one's getting our way.
We are helping people out.
And I still am friends with acouple people.
One guy still like hits me up.
He's like, dude, you you savedmy son's mental health because
their house got wiped, they wereout of power for about a month
and a half.
And he's like, the only thingthat helped him get him through,
because he's like, we losteverything, dude, was you gave

(01:09:42):
me a battery pack and a light.
So we had light at home atnight, and we could keep his
iPad charged.
So he had something to kind oflike decompress.
And even years after, he wouldstill tell me the story.
It's amazing.
And it none of that was for me,but it was great hearing those
stories.
Um, but it that moment, so wedid that and we did tube trucks.

(01:10:02):
We set ended up sending anothertruck because it performed so
well.
Um, grew the business likecrazy, grew really good
relationships with retailers.
Um, but it was all real.
It wasn't like this wasn't athis wasn't a money-making
thing.
It was like, no, we're gonnafucking help people.
Yeah, and it ended up making ita really good move for the
business.
And so I I went back home, sentanother crew out, right?

(01:10:23):
Because FEMA took weeks, dude.
Yeah, it was wild seeing thatshit.
They were like blocking offairs, like, you guys can't come
in and help.
We're like, well, are youhelping?
They're like, no, we don't havethe approval yet.
There's like Navy ships in thewater right outside of Long
Island.
They they're just sitting there,you couldn't do anything.
So I was pissed.
Like, because it was likeelection time too, and like, you
know, you're watching thisstuff, and I saw firsthand what

(01:10:45):
the issues with the government.
They're like, Oh yeah, we'reFEMA, we're helping everyone
out.
I'm like, you're fine there.
Yeah, but it was gnarly becausewe we couldn't even get a hotel
in the city, so we had toactually drive every night out
to Pennsylvania two hours away,and it was where there all the
linemen were staying because noone could stay in the city, it
was all booked.
Yeah, so they they're bringinglinemen in for running
electrical and all that kind ofstuff from Alabama and Nevada.

(01:11:07):
So we're at all these hotels andthe bars are insane.
It was wild.
It was wild.
So I got back from that trip,and I think the CMO was just
parting ways at that time.
And the the guy who came fromSkull County Monk, he was
becoming the VP of marketing.
And within a month after gettingback, because it did so well, he
promoted me to director ofcommunity.

(01:11:28):
So I took over, you know,events, just all the community
stuff.
And it was just I was atGoldzier for six and a half
years, and it was moment aftermoment, and it's because of the
opportunity, it wasn't becauselike just me, the team was
killer.
Like we kept hiring killers,dude, like Ryan Bayless, Andy
Earle, uh Justin, freaking Pitt,Ruey, Seuss Edmondson, all these
dudes up here, like just killersin the marketing team.

(01:11:50):
And we were able to build like areally good brand and just a
good culture.
Like we had such a good culturebecause we were doing all this
get back stuff.
Like, you know, I took over ourgive back program and put a
whole program called ShareSell,our share of the sun, um, where
you buy a purchase, you get ashare of the sun, like literal
stock certificate.
And you can figure, you can thendirect where you want to donate
your money to, right?

(01:12:11):
So we were do we were buildingschool or orphanages in Kenya,
um, schools in Nepal, a coupleschool.
Uh, we did some in Peru.
We partnered with Dell on thoseones with Michael Becky, Local
Explorer.
Um, we partnered with theHunnell Foundation, we did the
Navajo Nation.
We did a couple other locationswith the with the Honnell
Foundation.
And so that was a really coolprogram, like really fulfilling

(01:12:32):
in my life to be able to getback, especially growing up LDS.
You're always doing get backstuff.
Yeah.
Um, and we just like reallycrushed in that.
But those six and a half years,it was just, you know,
opportunity after opportunityafter opportunity.
It was just one of those total,like, you just don't get those
opportunities.
Yeah.
Where I was able to grow so fastover six and a half years, where
I end up running marketing thereum towards the the tail end, but
it was a really cool experience.

(01:12:54):
Yeah, yeah, it was amazing,dude.
And it came down to you showingup and just like doing the
thing.
Yeah.
Because so many people like haveapplied it a lot of my life
recently, because like so muchof my life is just like being
there.
And I always tell people,nothing's gonna happen for you
in your house.
Yeah.
Like if you want things tohappen, like no one's gonna come
applied to everything.
It can be applied to makingfriends, it can be applied to
romantic, it could be fine.
Anything is yeah, it's not gonnahappen in your living room.

(01:13:15):
No one's gonna knock on yourdoor.
Yeah.
In the same way, like, oh, youneed to get to Japan because the
team's there and the team willlet you, just show up, jump on a
flight on a plate.
And it and it like it's not it'snot always gonna work, but it's
not definitely not gonna work ifyou don't try it.
You miss every shot you don'ttake, yeah.
Right.
So if you don't take any shots,you're gonna miss them all.
Right.
And and and the interestingthing about showing up is if you
show up and Nate better on ourteam, our VP of Girl, he talks

(01:13:38):
about this a lot.
It's a you know, there's achart, Charlie Munger uh uh
quote that he just did apresentation on this actually
like two hours ago, and talkedabout this quote.
But it's like stay in the gamelong enough that you get lucky,
right?
And it's not even about lucky,but it's about showing up.
Like you constantly justconsistently show up because
something's gonna happen.
Like all these opportunities youjust show up.

(01:13:59):
Obviously, sometimes you need tojust put balls to the walls.
And like in skating, like thatthat you know, energy that you
learn from skating is likeyou're just gonna fucking go for
it.
And we also always call breakingthe ice.
Like you'd go up to a handrailor a 16 stair stairs.
Ollie that you ain't even try toollie it.
You're just I you know, I I tella lot of people I wasn't even
professional skateboard, I was aprofessional carcass tosser.

(01:14:19):
Like, I just you just you gottabreak the ice.
You're like, fuck it, 16 stairs.
I'm just gonna throw my bodydown.
You're not trying to landanything, right?
Right.
And then the next one, you'relike, got it.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:26):
You're like, cool.

SPEAKER_01 (01:14:27):
Yeah, or a handrail, you're like, I'm probably gonna
nut in this first one, and thenyou'll do it second try.
And it's the same thing in likethe business world.
It's like fucking just go forit.
Yeah, you're gonnaprofessionally nut this rail.
Yeah, but obviously there's riskassessment, you're not gonna do
that on a 40 stare, you know, a20-stair handrail because you
might get hurt, you know.
So you're gonna be a little bitmore intentional and meticulous
about it.

(01:14:47):
But same thing with thebusiness, you're not gonna go do
like a porn shoot for a you knowa backpack company.
Sure.
Yeah.
Um, but you take those kind oflearnings that that's I think
with that background that I havewas just totally different.
That helped me like get reallypassionate.
Obviously, I have to bepassionate about the product and
the brand, but just go hard,dude.
Yeah, just do shit, just getshit done.

(01:15:09):
And when it's like, I mean, tofast forward a little bit, just
for sake of time, honestly.
Um, I mean, this is all becauseI imagine this is like so much
of the context.
Cause I mean, you go on to Imean, work with so many amazing
brands, I mean, like BlackDiamond and Topo Design until I
mean nomadic itself, and wouldlove to hear kind of how that
transition was and how youthought about joining that and

(01:15:29):
kind of what some of the stuffyou worked on there.
Yeah, yeah.
So, like, you know, at the endof Gold Zero, I was there six
and a half years and we gotacquired.
I stayed two years longer tofigure out what it was look what
it was like to work for afortune company.
And then I was like, yeah, it'stime for me to go.
Yeah, right.
We're different owners, itwasn't the same thing.
So Black Dime was local, uh,went over there for a year and
it was awesome.
Killers that worked there, likefreaking still to this day, the

(01:15:51):
people that worked there arefucking awesome.
And then Topo approached me, andat the time our kids at this
time we had three kids.
Okay, right.
So during all those years, we'regonna go zero, we're gonna BD,
working 78 hours a week, hadthree kids and got my bachelor's
degree.
So it was it was in the part ofthe reason I'm bald now.
Um, and then we were like, well,kids aren't school yet.

(01:16:12):
Maybe we should try somethingelse.
We were living in Salt Lake, Ithink like seven years at that
point, right?
And we were in Mill Creek atthat last point point.
It was like, let's try somethingnew.
And so Topo was based inColorado.
They had an office in FortCollins and in Denver.
I was like, let's go check itout.
And it's like environment-wise,not much different, but
definitely different vibe.

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:29):
Yes, right?

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:29):
A lot of the breweries, a little bit more
diversity and stuff like that.
So we ended up moving, movingout there.
And I like, I like Topo too.
And I still talk with Iliterally still since I left
almost five years ago, I stillhave a monthly meeting with one
of the founders.
Oh, our monthly one-on-one.
Um, so I was there for threeyears, awesome.
It was great.
It was great.
We started growing the brand, itwas really good.
Then COVID hit.
Obviously, 2020 was gonna be theyear for Topo.

(01:16:51):
Like the the marketing plan wehad in the foundation, the
energy we had built up behindthe brand to take it was it was
all there.
All the all the recipe wasthere.
It was ready to go.
And then COVID hit.
Like our marketing plan, it's itwas so good, went out the window
in 45 minutes.
And this happened with everyone,right?
Yeah, and so this goes into mytransition and nomadic.
So unfortunately, had to let gohalf the team, take on all those

(01:17:12):
jobs, close all the officesdown.
I'm working in my bedroom,right?
So 22 hours a day, I'm in mybedroom, sleep and work because
you're doing so you're doing allthese jobs.
Um, spend two hours with myfamily, do that for six months,
start to lose my mind.
Like, of course, right?

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:26):
How do you not?

SPEAKER_01 (01:17:27):
How do you not?
And COVID was fucking weird forall of us, yeah, right?
We still haven't really talkedabout it.
Um we still haven't reallyreally recapped.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:34):
Can we just talk about this, honey?

SPEAKER_01 (01:17:35):
Can we can we just kind of like later, later busy?
Yeah, who's the who's theworldwide therapist for this
one?
Um, so it was Labor Day.
We're come to visit my family,right?
And we're super safe.
Again, my wife's type one, sowe're like really safe, right?
Um, we come through and but alsoit was like not as safe as
wearing bubble, you know, bubbleoutfits in the outdoors.

(01:17:57):
Yes, you know what I mean?
We drive to St.
George and we pass through CedarCity, and there's a full fucking
football game going on.
Like full stadium, dude.
Full stadium.
We get into St.
George, there's like people atrestaurants, and we're like,
what the hell is going on?
And we still were wearing a maskand everything, but it was at
that moment where I'm like, I'mworking from home.
I'm stuck in my bedroom.
And but and then I saw myparents who at the time were

(01:18:18):
like 78, 77.
I'm like, they're getting old,and we're far, like it's a four,
it's an 11-hour drive.
Yep, right.
So my kids see them once a year.
I'm like, and it hit me of youknow, I'm gonna be pissed at
myself in the future if my kidsdon't get time with their
grandparents because I have afucking job.
So we went and looked at onehouse and bought it.

(01:18:41):
And it happened to be it was ahouse in downtown, small house,
big yard, third of an acre.
We have chickens, it's amazing.
Got a mini ramp too.
Uh most important.
Walk in to look at this houseand this kid I went to high
school with.
Shut up.
Yeah.
So we weren't even the just likeit's funny to think about like
that liberating moment in SanDiego.
We're like, yeah, nobody knowsme.
I can go everyone to 100%.
Yeah.
Oh my god, it's but dude, itchanges when you're older
because when we first, you know,I had to get out in those early,

(01:19:03):
late teen and early 20 years.
When I came back, late 20s, itwas it was hard.
It was hard for me.
Um, because I was still kind ofin party phase.
So we were raging there, comingup Salt Way, go to Vegas, go to
California, whatever.
Um, but this the second timecoming back home when I'm older,
it's kind of what we weretalking about earlier.
I'm like, I have kids now,right?
It's a different mindset.
So when I come back and I see myparents getting old, I'm like,

(01:19:26):
dude, we gotta get my kids downhere.
Also, like into mountain biking,into golf, you know, into
skating still, hiking.
You know, I've been in theoutdoor industry at that point,
10 years, you know, have all theshit, climbing gear, everything.
Yeah, I'm like, this seems liketime now, right?
So bought the house, went backto Colorado, talked to the

(01:19:47):
founder and said, Hey, uh, youknow, we don't have our offices.
Like, do I have to be here?
And he's like, Well, I guessnot.
I was like, Cool, because Ibought a house that I'm moving
in three weeks.
And he was cool with it.
So we packed up quick.
We wanted to get out before thewinter.
It got a lot colder in FortCollins, like negative 10.
And you'd get those Wyomingwinds, so it'd be like brutally
cold and and ice on the water.

(01:20:08):
Dude, and the hail there, bro.
No, thank you.
Call Falls.
Yeah, yeah.
Truck got total one year.
We had to get our new roof,actually, because it was that
bad from the hill.
So we're like, let's get outbefore the winter.
So we moved the end of Octoberum and come and we we there was
renters in our house at thetime, so we lived with my
parents for a couple months andstart remodeling, and they got
out the renters, and then westarted remodeling our house.

(01:20:28):
And it turned into like, oh,we'll change out the carpet.
Day two, I'm knocking aload-bearing wall down.
So stupid.
So I'm here, we're in St.
George for two months.
I get hit up.
I knew that Tobo was gonna wantme to move back to Colorado, and
I didn't really want to do thatto the kids, right?
Right.
Did you say like biting yourtime?
Biting my time, yep, exactly.
And that's that was our littleevil plan.
Don't tell Jed Rose at Tobo, butum, so we're so I get I got hit

(01:20:54):
up by two brands at the time,which was Dometic, who makes
like fridges and stuff and RVequipment and things like that,
and then nomadic.
And uh the two founders calledme up.
My other, my brother, actuallyfrom Golzero, was like their
their kind of investor, but alsohe's their investor.
Hire you again.
We talked about that.
Yeah, he's like their investor,but he's also like their their
like he's like the chairman ofthe board, basically.
Right.

(01:21:15):
And he he call he calls mefirst.
He's like, Hey, you're back inUtah now.
He's like, Do you wanna hewanted me to move up here?
Um he's like, Do you want totalk with the nomadic guys?
He's like, they need someonethat understands brand and can
build community, but alsounderstands e-commerce.
Well, that knows brand and canand can build community but
understands e-commerce.
He's like, literally, I don'tknow really anyone but you.

(01:21:35):
And now that you're back inUtah, I was like, Yeah, let me
talk with him.
So I talked with those twodudes, and I was already talking
with nomadic.
I was like in interview numberfour.
Like they were they they likeliterally were offering me a job
at that time.
I was like, let me talk to thenomadic guys.
And the fact that Joe wasinvolved to like have all the
trust in the world with the guythat did is a straight-up
genius.
And so talk with the dudes.
I like the guys, they're reallykind, but they were also kind of

(01:21:57):
like somewhat like slightlynerdier for me at the time.
And I was honest with thembecause I'm coming from Topo and
like Topo went from hipsterbrand to like we were starting
to create it as an actualoutdoor cool brand.
Right, you know, the crossroadsbetween like streetwear,
outdoor, and Japanese fashionstyle.
Um Topo Pants for now.
Yeah, Topo Pants for now and anomadic shirt.
So on a Topo tangent, yeah.

(01:22:18):
Um, I was in Disneyland aswaiting in line as one does, and
I see this guy with this, Ithink I can't remember if it was
clothes or a bag, and I waslike, it's kind of because I'm a
big fan of like Japanesefashion.
Yeah, yeah.
Like, oh that's kind of sick.
And I pull up my phone, I'mlike, don't hang.
I was sitting there likescrolling the website for an
hour.
And so yeah, that's funny.
Jed, Jed was always ahead oftrends for because he followed

(01:22:39):
high fashion Europe and Japanesefashion and Japanese outdoor.
And so we always had things liketwo years too early.
Of course.

SPEAKER_02 (01:22:46):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:22:46):
So so talking with those guys and and they sent me
some product, and it was basedin Utah, and the Dometic was
based in the Illinois, andthey're gonna want me to
eventually move to Chicagooutside of Chicago.
And I was like, I don't reallywant to do that.
Yeah, and so talked to theseguys, got the program like,
dude, this this product's wild.
Like it was it's it is very I Icall approachable premium for

(01:23:08):
its premium, but it'saffordable.
Affordable premium doesn't soundas good as approachable premium.
Yeah, and so talk what theyneed, and they told me what they
need, and everything I was like,dude, this actually sounds like
really, really up my wheelhouse.
So decided to join um nomadics,started Jan 1, 2021.
Um, so I left Topa again, stillhomies with all those guys, and
then it was basically, you know,balls to walls, let's figure

(01:23:31):
this thing out, right?
So I was I was coming up, youknow, still living in St.
George, I was coming up everytwo weeks on a Tuesday, Monday
and Tuesday, sleeping in theoffice.
They actually didn't even know Iwas sleeping in the office for a
while.
They're actually it's okay.
I'm used to that.
Yeah, yeah.
That's actually pretty luxury.
Yeah, I would I would like tobring up a climate uh air
mattress and there was bathroomsthere and everything.
And so like I was, yeah, I wassleeping in there.
But they finally found out theywere like kind of a little

(01:23:52):
weirder about it, but not weird.
I was like, you guys, they'relike, oh no, like grab another
tour.
I'm like, you guys, I literallywould go on tours sleeping in
bathtubs because it was thesafest spot to sleep in.
I'm like, I have no problemdoing this.
So for the first while I wasdoing a lot up and back.
Like, you know, I'll still, Istill come up here all the time
up here right now, but I'llstill come up back uh up and

(01:24:12):
back in a day drive.
You know, like I'll drive eightand a half hours, eight hours in
the office.
It's kind of gnarly.
But so I started and we werejust coming, we were just going
into a new Kickstarter, theirsecond camera bag.
That was my first KickstarterI've ever worked on, and it was
awesome.
We did$2.2 million.
It was insane, right?
And these guys have built likereally good product.

(01:24:34):
Um, there were some other issueswe had to deal with before
building up the brand side, likeour operations needed a little
refresh, customer service neededrefresh.
You know, we were seven-dayresponse time on customer
service.
So I took that over, and it wasreally just a strategy and
bandwidth thing.
So, you know, hired people whogot down to like a 30-second
response time, two minute, threeminute, you know, depending on
the channel.

(01:24:54):
Um, and so started to not buildup the brand side yet, but
started to get the relationshipsgoing, started to get, you know,
helping on the op side, helpingall making sure e-commerce was
going.
And then once the op sidestarted getting in, because the
problem was you can't reallybuild a brand in a community if
you're shipping, you know, timeis two and a half weeks.

(01:25:15):
Yeah.
And then your customer servicetakes seven hours or seven days.
Yeah.
Like it's just a crappyexperience, especially when you
have a premium product.
Yeah, well, I mean, part of abrand is meeting expectations.
And if you're not missingexpectations, then negative
brand.
Yeah.
So from end to end, you thatthat's what we did.
We restructure the whole thingfrom what the ads look like to,
you know, and there's alwaysopportunity even to this day,
right?
But product is good.

(01:25:36):
So you get it to them on a timewhen they need it, they get the
product, and everything afterthat is good too, right?
We call that like you know, whyclub service, concierge service,
right?
Like we're gonna treat ourcustomers, they're spending$300
in a bag.
We better be fucking awesome tothem.
Yeah.
Packaging looks good, the fullexperience.
And so we just started goinghard and and building up, you
know, this is right coming outof COVID.
So so travel's still slow,right?

(01:25:57):
Our camera collection is doingwell, um, but luggage and travel
bags aren't, right?
That's they're at the beginningof 2021.
Then as we get through part of2021, revenge travel starts to
have back.
Just rubber bands this whole wayback.
Everyone's getting the hell outof it.
You know, they they dipped downheavy in 2020.
They almost went out ofbusiness.
Wow, right?
But they launched their cameracollection that right at the

(01:26:19):
right time, like literally safetheir business.
And they launched it with a bigYouTuber named Peter McCann, and
it really helped him stay inbusiness because it's
self-funded business, right?
Because that Joe, who invested,was just, you know, owners could
take a little bit of chips offthe table, wasn't to fund the
business.
And so we go, um, and there weretwo people in the marketing team
at the time, too, you know,really small studs, Russell

(01:26:41):
Steed and and Nate Benner.
So I come in, we start growing.
We regrew 20% that year, 25%.
And then 2022 hits, and that'swhen revenge travel came back.
And it was all you know, all mybuddies in the outdoor space,
that's when they starteddipping.
Because the outdoor space boomedduring COVID.
You got your check, yeah.
Then you're like, dude, I'mgetting a new grill, I'm getting
a camera, I'm getting some newskis.

(01:27:04):
Yeah, let's go.
You know, everybody's the onlything I could do is outdoors.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so when travel opened up,that was awesome for us.
We grew 89% that year.
Wow.
Yeah.
And we were still a smallbusiness, and these all sound
like big numbers, but like forself-buzz self-funded business
grow 89%, is that's like kind ofimpossible, actually.
Yeah.
You know, no line of credit,just straight up.
Well, I mean, that's what that'sright.

(01:27:25):
To that point of scale in anysort of business.
I mean, you get outside funding,and it's all going towards sales
and marketing.
Yeah.
And scaling the business so itcan support whatever sales and
marketing you can bring in.
We still haven't done that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so it was, it's, it's justbeen a fun ride.
You know, we we startedexpanding product lines, added
colors, um, some new luggage, wea new category with apparel,
worked, and we're we're in aninteresting space because we

(01:27:47):
came out the camera bag thatopened up the door to creators
for us.
So prior to nomadic, I've neverreally like worked with
YouTubers.
I never did Kickstarter.
It was all core outdoor stuff orskate, you know, in the skate
world, like action sports.
So those are the industries Iknew.
Coming in here, I knew a littlebit about travel because you
know, we had travel bags at umat Topo and some some small
travel stuff at Black Diamond.

(01:28:08):
Um, but then I started likeworking with YouTubers and I'm
like, dude, this world is wild.
Yes.
Like we did some stuff with DudePerfect, we've done some stuff
with Zach King, um, work with alot of people.
But the strategy at that pointwas hey, we have a sick camera
bag and we just came up withanother one.
Let's be the bag for creators.
Yeah.
So that was my strategy.
Went hard.
Seating product.
And they're the people that ifthey like it, then next thing

(01:28:30):
you know, it's like, oh, youlike this bag?
It's like my favorite bag in theworld.
Totally.
We should go get one.
Yeah, and a camera bag that's alifetime warranty and is super
durable and could throw out aTesla going 70 miles an hour and
your camera stuff's fine.
Awesome.
Yeah.
So that opened up a new likelearning experience for me is
like working with creators andthis level of like it's that
world is mind-blowing of howmuch money they make.

(01:28:51):
It is and how much influencethey have.
Oh, yeah.
Um, and so that was that's beenreally cool over here.
Um yeah, let's start.
You ask me questions about nomic.
Yeah, I mean, I mean, it's justa like I just love like like
your just like go-to attitude,your ability to just like roll
up your sleeves, but then alsojust like go through hard things
and also be like, hey, I'm theVP of marketing, but I'm gonna

(01:29:12):
go sleep in the office, and likejust not have this pretentious
probably isn't the right word,but just like also like, and I
also love that you rememberevery single person along the
way and they're like our actualhomies.
It's not like, all right, well,thanks for the card of wishing
me well on my next job.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like, dude, follow me onLinkedIn.
I've helped, I've helped peopleon my team get jobs.
Yeah.
Like when they're like, dude,I'm not happy.

(01:29:32):
I'm like, let's get your job,bro.
Yeah, let's go.
Let's find, let's find yousomething.
What do you want to do?
Where do you want to move?
You know, it's just like whenyou talk to your brothers and
you came back for it.
It's like, okay, what have youbeen working on?
Tell me about this.
What do you want?
I mean, dude, it's about beingreal.
Like, I I've said this on otherthings I've done, but it's like
real recognized realauthenticity.
I I even hate using that word,but it's like there's, you know,
when you get in the corporateworld, and this this was hard
for me, especially the Utahcorporate world, the the bubble

(01:29:55):
is coming up because I'm I'vealways been a real person and
it's especially, you know, like.
When I was learning social andall these things, where it in
bluffed out the office.
So you're you're going to theselike conferences with all these
tech companies and like you'veworked in the world, you know
how the world is.
There's a lot of good peoplethere, but it was really hard
for me to to like accept thatworld and and still be me and

(01:30:17):
but still have to live in thatworld because people exist.
Yeah.
I mean, it's just it's we allgrow up differently, right?
And and I didn't come out ofhigh school for a corporate
career.
I didn't even I didn't get intowhat I'm doing now as a
corporate career.
I did it because I waspassionate and it was fun.
Yeah.
And I could learn things.
It wasn't like, you know, youknow, your normal thing where

(01:30:37):
it's like I'm gonna go tocollege and I'm gonna be a
career marketer.
Like I don't even talk, butthat's like how it works out so
much better.
Because like so many people,again, like going back to that
moment in San Diego where it'slike, oh, I can do anything.
Yeah, yeah.
Nobody knows me.
Yeah, yeah.
And once you realize, like,again, you transition from being
raised good born and raised inthis place in St.

(01:30:57):
George, this micro bubble therewhere everybody knows you crazy
bubble.
So much of the motivation andlike uh influence that they have
over you again, like even justlooking at missions, like, oh,
it's because I'm in this placeand they want me to do it.
Yeah.
But once you can realize, like,oh, my journey is my own, I can
create my own future and thenhave enough data points of like
that working out, yeah, theworld is your oyster.
Yeah, yeah.
And it doesn't matter anymorebecause you realize and you have

(01:31:19):
enough data points that if I'mjust myself and I don't
compromise on that, everythingelse will work out.
Yeah.
Because the right people willcome in, the right opportunity.
Yeah, yeah.
And this flywheel of beingyourself.
Yeah.
But so many people are sobeholden to this moment of like,
I gotta be like this.
I gotta here's the planet, Ijust have to do it.
Yeah.
Until they get to a point inlike I'm I mean just turned 35
and I have so many friends, it'slike, I don't know how I got

(01:31:40):
here.
I don't know why.
I don't like this.
I don't know what to do.
Yeah.
Because they've just beenfollowing, like, yeah, yeah,
here's what I'm gonna do, here'sthis, I'm not gonna ask any
question.
Yeah.
And so a lot of people who atthe wrong stage are very
intimidated by that because it'sso antithetical.
So anything that they've done,yeah, but at the same time,
they're like gravitated towardsit because it's so novel.

SPEAKER_00 (01:31:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:32:00):
And all of a sudden, like you're their favorite
person because like you're theperson that they want to be, but
can't be because of the likeinternal conflict.
I feel bad for saying some ofthis stuff.
Like, I'm not trying to knock onanyone, it's a it's just
different for me.
Like the corporate world.

SPEAKER_00 (01:32:13):
I don't know why people are successful at it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:32:16):
This is what I will say.
Coming from coming from skate togoal zero, which is the most
opposite of corporate world.
It's in skate, it was the onlyway I could have eased into this
world.
Yeah.
Because we were a startup and itwas moving fast and it was get
shit done.
We're having fun, we had astrong culture, morale was high,
the energy, it was it was.

(01:32:37):
I mean, I drank the Kool-Aid, Iguzzled the Kool-Aid.
You know, you'll hear this frompeople of Kool-Aid.
It was the best Kool-Aid.
I mean, we were literallychanging people's lives because
we were doing all this give backstuff, you know.
Like, dude, you built a schoolwith Dell in freaking Tanzania.
Like, that was sick.
Yeah, right.
So I was drunk off the Kool-Aid.
It was the it was the way for meto get in that corporate world.

(01:32:58):
So those years at goal zerogoing from, you know, new hire,
new hire, that were all likementors to me that came from
bigger businesses where like,hey, these are the terms, this
is the reporting, this is this.
I eased into all that over time.
And so I was able to use it, butthat wasn't, you know, I didn't
go and get an MBA.
I didn't come out of school likeknowing what to do.
Thank God you didn't go to aplace where it's like, oh,

(01:33:19):
right, now here's the perfectway to write an email.
There's no way I would havelost.
That's the thing.
Like, there's no other companyor other opportunity that I
would have made it this far ifit wasn't that goals here at
one.
Yeah.
Like it was just right moment,right time, dude.

SPEAKER_02 (01:33:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:33:31):
Like straight up.
Again, you kept putting yourselfout there, getting the bats,
having the right things, and itworks out.
Yeah.
And then I, you know, out youknow, when we got acquired, I
worked for a force trainingcompany and really figured out
real quick how much red tape isinvolved in reporting.
Yeah, I was spending 70% of mytime reporting.
Yeah, you're like, pendulumswing too far that way.
Yeah, it's like you're not usingmy strength because I'm not my
strength is not reporting.

(01:33:51):
Yeah.
Yours is out.
Again, again, skateboarder, youknow, anti-authoritarian.
That's why I we're stuff.
But I mean, I guess like on thelast topic of uh nomadic before
we get into wrapping up, butlike, I mean, what are you
working on now?
What are you looking forward to?
Um, with nomadics specifically.
Yeah, I mean nomadics at a at areally interesting and fun stage
just because it's 11 years old.

(01:34:12):
Like it's been here for a while.

SPEAKER_02 (01:34:13):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:34:13):
Right.
And it started with one product,it was Wallet.
The two two cousins had 200bucks.
They came up the concept of UtahJazz Game just down the road,
and they're like, hey, maybe wecould do this.
Threw it on Kickstarter, did120,000 or something like that.
170,000.
And so they're like, oh crap, wecan make more product.
And so, you know, for the firstsix, seven years of nomadic, it
was like dog ears.
It was like one product everylike 12 months, and it was a

(01:34:35):
Kickstarter, right?
We've done 15 Kickstarters.
Um, and then about four or fiveyears ago is when we started
speeding it up.
And we're like, hey, we actuallyhave something here.
Like there was a brand, we itwas very uh it was very niche
brand, you know, small audiencebase, but still doing well,
profitable, you know, bigKickstarters, things like that.
Now we're at a phase where we'refull, we're going to

(01:34:57):
omnichannel.
It's it's I would almost saidfull omni-channel.
It's we're growing it.
So we're coming out in Costcowith a uh an SMU, a special
product for Costco bag that'spalette.
So the pallet ties, the palettewraps that you'll see in Costco.
We're going out.
We did a test with 14 doors lastfall that was successful.
So we're coming out, I think itwas like 120 doors.
Wow.
We're in like 350 camera stores.
Um, so we're rolling out intoretail, which is great.

(01:35:20):
I mean, you know, post-e-comworld and and you know, the late
2010s, where's everything's no,everyone's DDC, everyone's DDC,
everyone's DDC.
It's changed a lot.
I mean, retail has struggled alot just because of post-COVID,
but there are retailers who arekilling.
We just got back on Best Buy,right?
So we have a bag in Best Buynow.
We're we're in Dillard's, we'rein, we're opening up countries.

(01:35:41):
Um, we're just locking in Japan.
We have Korea already.
Uh, we've had a separate brandin Europe called Gomatic due to
a trademark infringement issue.
Uh, they're called trademarkterrorists.
They sue everyone they can, butwe actually worked out a deal
with them.
So we're we're rolling nomadicback out in Europe in March.
And so that's gonna be awesomethat we don't have to deal with
two brands.
So the UK will do really well.
We already do well with therewith the secondary brand.

(01:36:02):
UK, Europe.
Um, we'll open up Mexico soon.
We just opened up Canada at abigger way, so we're open up
retail.
So the expansion of the brand iswhat's fun for me.
Yeah.
And because it gives youopportunities.
So, like, you know, Sean fromRidge Wallet says this best on
how you grow a brand is morepeople, more places, more
product, right?
So get in front of more people,come up with more product,

(01:36:23):
whether category SKUs, whateverit is, that doesn't mean you
have to get inflated by product,you have to have a good life
cycle management, right?
So you're coming in with thiscolor, whether it's seasonal or
this product, you know, now wegot updated version, things like
that.
And the more places one isexciting because as a as a
self-funded Kickstarter brand tothen e-com with Shopify, to then

(01:36:43):
global footprint.
And we're not fully globalfootprint, but that's the mode
we're in right now, right?
Like we are entering that phase.
And the work we've been doing onthe brand side for the last four
years to get us set up for thisis really exciting.
Like, we have all these reallygood relationships.
We work with Chris Williamsonfor the Modern Wisdom podcast,
Peter McKinnon still with thecamera bag.

(01:37:04):
Um Huberman was rocking our bag,dude perfect all rock our bag.
Like, you know, we're not bigenough where we could afford
deals with all these guys.
We do have one with modernwisdom, but we are the bag for
creators and we have greatrelationships.
We have a lot of energy, andthat's like the thing I like try
to focus on.
And it's hard to put a number toit.
You could put it on like brandawareness and stuff like that,
but building energy behind abrand, right?

(01:37:25):
I'll give you one example.
This is when I first realizedthere's actual energy behind the
brand.
This is really ethereal too whenI talk about this, but I
remember because I'm a brandguy, I'm from skating, right?
We were friends with the SkullCandy guys early on because I
when I went into Gold Zero, Ihit up a bunch of people over
there, right?
And so I was like really intoit.
They sponsored skaters, lizardwas on them, and like, you know,
rocked the headphones,especially in Utah.
It's such a nice one.

(01:37:46):
It was huge.
Yeah, yeah.
I remember one day I went toBest Buy and I was looking at
their display because I wasdoing some some market research
stuff, and I picked up aproduct, one of their
headphones.
I'm like, weird, I don't feelanything.
I'm really, I'm a really likekind of empathetic, sense and
sensitive type of person likethat.
Yeah, it's weird to say thisshit.
Um sounds super hippie rightnow, but yeah, but I but I
didn't feel anything, right?

(01:38:07):
I'm like, something's that'sweird.
I like I've been so into thisbrand.
But later that day, I find outthey fired almost every
skateboarder and snowboarder.
They left four people and theyhired all the Victoria Secret
models.

SPEAKER_02 (01:38:19):
Wow.

SPEAKER_01 (01:38:20):
And it was because there are there is an energy
behind your brand from a culturestandpoint that can get wiped
out immediately.
Yeah, and Squok and they had areally hard time for a couple
years.
They're coming back now withBrian and um Justin, there's a
few people working over there,they're they're building that
back up.
But I re I remember that.

SPEAKER_00 (01:38:34):
How many years did it take to hunt that?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:38:36):
So basically they lost their soul.
That's how it felt to me.
And so that was my firstrealization where I'm like,
whoa, brands have souls, theyhave energy.
And like, how do you build that?
Because, like, in this corporateworld, like you can't put an ROI
on that, but you actually can't.
That's what builds the longevityof a brand, the profitability of
a brand, right?
Because we're not in commodity,we're in community.

SPEAKER_02 (01:38:57):
Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 (01:38:58):
It's a different, different wheelhouse.
And so the way that I've alwaysbuilt brands and every brand
I've gone to is like very, youknow, I start with the it's all
relationship-based at first.
Um, I go to as many events as Ican, I talk with people, I get
in with the key people, youknow, whether it's the buyers,
whether it's the athletes,ambassadors, depending on the
category and the industry you'rein, and create real, real

(01:39:18):
relationships and createexcitement where like you see
them, they see you, they'relike, pneumatic boys, yes, you
know, like and and like everybrand I've done that at, and
it's like, and it's and it'sreal.
That's the thing, is like that.
I have to be like reallypassionate and really excited
about this stuff because thatrelationship, the energy I bring
out of my body and put into thebrand is real, and people you

(01:39:38):
could feel.
And other people do this too.
Like you do GoPro did this earlydays.
Like a lot of brands, there's alot of people that have that
same mentality that do that, andit and it really works, dude.
Like I think that's the bigdifference on building a brand
is you have to build energy andmomentum behind it.
Yeah, it's kinetic energy.
Yeah, once it's going, I meanyou could you could fall it
could fall apart very quickly,and it doesn't start off the

(01:40:00):
bat.
It doesn't start fast.
It takes a while.
Yeah.
Like it's taken a bit to getmore and more energy in these
different categories where in itwith nomadic, but it's not just
me, like the team is doing this.
Like I try to get everyone outat events, try to get, you know,
at one point we had every everyemployee calling customers
called the voice of the customerprogram, you know, like, hey,
how was your how was the order?

(01:40:21):
Did you get it?
How did you like that?
If you if you don't know whatyour customers are saying and
thinking about a product, 100%.
Dude, that's the only way.
It's the empathy model.
Like I heard a podcast the otherday with the the one of the the
CEO at 974, which was more likea B2B agency, but he was talking
about the model that they dowhen they put the campaigns
together and stuff like that forbrands they work with.
It's called pie.
Profitability, innovation,empathy.

(01:40:41):
But they flip it.
Empathy, innovation,profitability.
Who is the customer?
What are their needs?
What's the gaps?
Right?
How do they feel?
Really be empathetic for thatcustomer.
Innovation, how do you bedifferent than everyone else?
And then just make sure it'sprofitable.
Wow.
Yeah, it's great.
I like what it was like one ofthose.
I'm like, I didn't learn this inmy freaking marketing degree.

(01:41:02):
Like they didn't teach me thisat Dicksie.
Dooksie, Duxie for life.
But it was like one of thosemodels where, yeah, totally.
Like, you know, it goes back toeven the real recognized real.
Like when I go to shows andstuff, and I've taught this with
the team, and some of the teamalready had this, it's like,
dude, we're homies with people.
I don't call them customers,these are friends.
Yeah.
Even if we just met them, askthem where they're from.

unknown (01:41:24):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:41:24):
Don't just be the soulless person.
Tell me about the product.
Not at all, dude.
I'm not wearing pleated pantswith a, you know, I'm wearing a
polo right now, but not, but youknow what I'm saying.
Like pleated pants tucked inpolar.
Like, no, we're having fun.
We're meeting people.
We're gonna really like get toknow them.
These are these are homies,dude.
Like, straight up.
That's how you start to buildthat.
And then you understand it fromthe marketing side on the
empathetic side of like, how dowe how do we talk with people?

(01:41:47):
How do we stoke people up?
How do we change?
How do we help amplify theirlife because we know our product
is really good?
How do we help get that into itso that they, you know, they
have that confidence, basically?
Yeah.
So very brain dumpy.
No, I bothered it.
Um, oh James, this has beenamazing.
I uh I there's only like one ortwo conversations I've gone into
where I'm like, okay, that likeeither was what I expected or

(01:42:08):
worse.
Like more often than not, I'mlike, that's what I needed.
Like a week, like we'rerecording on a Friday.
It's like the end of day.
I'm like, this is what I neededto energize me out of everything
else.
So this has been amazing.
Stoked.
Um lots of good stuff coming outof Nomadic.
We we do have apparel, currentlya small line.
We're coming out with some moreapparel products um in October,
like a soft shell jacket, thispolo, lung sleeve, a really new

(01:42:30):
custom fabric for us forhoodies.
Um, we're working on some morebags, and then just yeah,
expansion and and product andjust trying to you know get the
best product out there to peoplebecause our product is the best.
I mean, just I've yet, like Isaid, I mean, I've yet to have
anybody say they like, oh, I gotthe bag wasn't for me, or I
didn't like this.
Always people like becomeobsessed with it.
That's cool.
Um, but want to wrap up with thetwo questions I always ask

(01:42:52):
everybody at the end of eachepisode.
Number one, if you could havesomeone on the podcast and hear
more about what they're up to intheir story, who would you want
to hear from?
Here in Salt Lake.
Uh yeah.
Some more related to Man,there's some legends here, bro.
Like because of again, a lot oflike early mentors for me that
changed my life, live here.
Uh Benny Pellegrino, please havehim on.

(01:43:14):
So he was Milo Sport, then he'snow I think he's doing Nitro and
Autumn Headwear.
Got it.
Legend.
Yeah.
I mean, Milo, Milo alone is themost like like one of the iconic
spots.
Yeah, Benny on.
Bro, okay.
Like, text me if you want himon, I'll I'll intro you.
Benny is a shit.
Lizard King would be great too.
Oh, I'd love to talk to you.
Lizard is hilarious.

(01:43:34):
Like, I I've like host I've mc'dlike events and contests with
him.
It is the funnest shit you'llever get.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
So, dude, honestly, I mean,there's so many.
Like Jared Smith, too, localmural artist.
I mean, man, there's so many, somany.
But Benny's a good one becausehe's he's came from the East
Coast.
He was a skateboarder and asnowboarder.
Milo, I mean, what's happened inthe snowboard industry?

(01:43:55):
Like, a lot of that's on Benny'sback.
Yeah, right.
I mean, those are the peoplethat built it when it was
showing up in Salt Lake, andit's like these customers short
owners, like, all right, I guessthe core dude, the ones doing
it.
And now he's doing you know,these other brands, like you
know, the local, local bigbrands.
Um, Lizard comes back and forthall the time from LA where
everyone, including Benny andanyone in Salt Lake, has been
trying to convince him to moveback to Salt Lake for years.

(01:44:16):
He wants to, he wants to.
So those two, I I would say youshould definitely have them on.
Yeah, they're both legends here.
You know, obviously, in thebusiness world, different lizard
is a Utah legend.
Oh, exactly.
He's in a video game.
If you if you go to any kid at askate park or anybody holding a
skate, we're like, oh, like, youknow, Lizard King, and they're
like, you're like, throw thataway, yeah.

(01:44:38):
They don't remember my nameanymore.
I'm too far away, but Lizardthey remember.
Well, because like even growingup, like rollerblading and going
to skate parks all the time,like I knew who people were.
Like, I would never, and like,yeah, like skate parks were so
much like a therapeutic thingfor me that I'm never like, no,
uh, what's your name?
But I'd be like, oh yeah,there's like Lizard, or like the
one, the name that a lot ofpeople talk about right now is
skating and stuff, like is likeTyson Bauer Bang.
Tyson's awesome.
Yeah, so good.

(01:44:59):
And so it's like fun to see thatthere's still kind of this like
passing of the guards happeningwhere you saw old heads like
Lizard King still comes aroundand still these kids are still
coming up and do shit.
But like on the on the on thebuilding business side and like
in in part of that communityhere, like Benny Pellegrino and
Jeff Richards.
Okay.
So Jeff started Autumn Headwire.
Okay, but he was like at Milofor a while, snowboarder too.

(01:45:20):
But they're they're buildingbusinesses here.
Yeah.
I I mean everybody grew up,yeah, yeah.
Yeah, totally.
I mean, and then you know,obviously, like within the other
business world, there's so many.
Yeah, I mean, there's there'sfour great people.
The thing about Utah is there'sso many killers on here, bro.
Like it's entrepreneur capital.
Like literally, I thought of twobusinesses just walking here.
I think it's just because of inSalt Lake.

(01:45:41):
The energy a hundred percent.
It's wild.
I don't disagree.
Yeah, there's a lot of like AlexMacArthur is just hanging out
with him.
For he's you know, purple Kizicknow over at to follow.
He's local.
Yeah, I was thinking like skatesnow world, but now when I'm
thinking business world, I'mlike I don't pigeonhole in
anything.
I like has Mike been on MikeClark?
No, I want to.
He would be a great one.

(01:46:01):
He's on Spawn.
Uh, there's a couple other ones,Casey Jarvis at Black Diamond
and Dan Rowe on the productside.
Great.
Casey just moved back.
He was the chief design officerat Under Armour.
Yeah.
Now he's the chief brand officerat Black Diamond.
Crazy.
He'll be a great one.
People are killers.
Dude, text me.
I can send you a list.
Too.
Yeah.
Uh, and then lastly, if peoplewant to follow you or and then

(01:46:22):
also if people want to findnomadic, what's the best place
to keep in touch with BlackDicks?
I mean, easy place for nomadic,follow us on Instagram at
nomadic.
Um, follow me.
I don't post a lot.
I usually just reshare stufffrom my wife.
So if you you know, you canfollow me at on Instagram, it's
um at underscore K-N or onLinkedIn.
Cool.
Yeah.
So just James Hacking onLinkedIn.
Yeah.
James.

(01:46:42):
This has been phenomenal.
It's been fun.
I love hearing all the stories.
I did talk a lot and I did braindouble up.
It's a potty ass.
Are we not?
Yeah, yeah.
Let's get potty.
Yes.
Exactly.
Don't be the don't be toddy forthe potty.
Yes.
I would rather take people thatI can listen to instead of try
to pull words out of theirmouth.
Yeah, we kind of crammed a uh abit in there for a little bit.
Yeah, we could honestly probablygo for two more hours.

(01:47:04):
Oh, I I that's the thing with meis I can talk for uh for people
about anything forever.
Yeah, yeah.
Thank you for having me.
No, this is awesome.
I uh yeah, I always love when itgoes from like, hey, I think you
should be on a podcast to like,and here we are.
Yeah, yeah, totally.
Uh we're here.
Yeah.
Small lake pod.
Awesome.
Let's go.
Shh, dude.
So good.

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S1, E98: Nomatic, VP of Marketing - James Atkin

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}S1, E98: Nomatic, VP of Marketing - James Atkin