February 15, 2024 • 28 mins
Unlock the secrets of Geographic Information Systems (GIS) and how they revolutionize community asset management with our special guest, Don Becker from Communities Unlimited. This episode reveals the crucial role GIS can play in everything from emergency services to water system efficiency. Don sheds light on the 'light bulb' moments communities experience, as they see their operations transform with GIS implementation. It's not just about mapping; it's about creating a future where communities thrive through technology.
Explore the future of GIS with us, as we discuss how Communities Unlimited is pushing the boundaries of asset management and analysis. With Don's expertise, we navigate the possibilities of using GIS to enhance planning, budgeting, and maintenance for communities. Our episode also introduces you to the CU team, a group of specialists in drone tech and coding, ready to customize GIS solutions for any challenge. From mapping historic cemeteries to tracking infrastructure hotspots, this conversation is an open invitation to community leaders and tech enthusiasts to discover the power of GIS. Join us, and be part of the conversation that's changing how we interact with the world around us.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
I think that a lot of our client communities don't
understand the value of theproduct until we deploy it.
And once the staff have acomfort level with the tools
that we offer them, the lightbulb goes off.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Welcome to episode 20 of Small Talk, the Community is
Unlimited podcast.
My name is Chris Baker.
Join today by Don Becker.
Don is the GIS coordinator atCommunity is Unlimited and Don,
just because we tend to love ouracronyms.
Will you tell us what GISstands for?
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Yeah, it's geographic information systems.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
So break this down for me, start top level.
Tell me what that is.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Okay, basically it is a software that the purpose of
is managing geospatial data, sothat's any type of data that can
be tied to a geographiclocation, you know, physical
address, a zip code, a censustract, pretty much anything that
(01:13):
can be tied to its real worldlocation.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
So, for example, just because I know some of the work
we do with this, and this couldbe like a meter for a water
system or it could be anythingtied to a water system.
You're plotting points on a map.
Am I saying that, right?
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:31):
we basically build an inventory of the assets that
you know a particular communitymight manage and if our client
is a water system, then yeah, wewould go out and document the
location of all of their watermeters and other assets that
they manage.
You know, if it can break andsomeone has to go out there find
(01:55):
it and fix it, they should havean inventory that includes a
precise location of what thatitem is and where is it.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Well, let me ask you this Is GPS involved or is it a
whole different thing?
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Yeah, we use the GPS satellite network.
Our hardware uses the kind ofthe global navigation network
which is called a GNSS.
Gps is the United Statesconstellation of satellites, but
we use the Russian satellites,the Chinese satellites, the
(02:28):
Europe satellites also, so weget a broader constellation of
location data broadcast.
Okay, Sounds complicated, is it?
Um no, you know, we just thesatellites are flying around in
space and all they do is sayhere, I am, here, I am, here, I
(02:50):
am.
And we have a receiver thatreceives those that broadcast
and as it picks up and tracks asatellite, you know it's
recording multiple satellitesall at the same time.
And you know we want to have atleast five satellites to get
the best quality signal.
But you know, the presence offive satellites lets us get a
(03:14):
submeter, accurate locations onall the points that we collect.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Okay, so tell me how a community or well, tell me
some of the jobs that you guysdo, so we have a better
understanding of how people useyou guys and the technology that
you possess.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
All right.
Well, initially, you know ourour work started with the
communities unlimitedenvironmental program and we
would go out and we would map aclient water system or a client
wastewater system.
And so we would go out thereand we would meet an individual
(03:52):
from from that system, anemployee or a former employee or
a board member, but someonethat has a good knowledge of
where everything is.
And so we would meet them andthen they would lead us out and
show us all of the assets thatwe're there to map.
It's a very intensive effort,you know we're we're going from
(04:17):
point to point and you knowwe're we're visiting every
location served by that systemand, depending on the size and
distribution of the customersyou know some systems can be
spread out over hundreds ofmiles we're we're out, driving
around and going from point topoint, trying to collect data as
(04:37):
efficiently as possible.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
And then what happens when you when you, let's say,
you're in the truck and you'redriving from connection one to
connection to you arrive atconnection to what happens at
connection to?
Speaker 1 (04:48):
let me first talk about the very basic workflow
that that we have employedBecause, you know, in order to
tell you what happens, you knowwe have to understand the
process.
So let me let me outline theprocess just a little bit.
We have technical assistanceproviders that are living out in
(05:08):
communities across our sevenstates, and so we have personnel
that are pretty local to ourclient communities, and so they
establish a relationship withthe client community.
They establish a need for GISmapping and if, if they bring us
a client that says, hey, we areinterested in your GIS services
(05:28):
, how do we get that done?
We ask them for any existingdata that they might have that
relates to the system.
So if they've got mapping, youknow and that's hard copy
mapping, right If they've got amap that was printed in decades
ago, you know that is the onlythe only record of the
(05:49):
distribution system we ask themfor a digital copy of that, of
that document.
We also ask them for a list oftheir customer accounts and a
list of their meter information,and so we we kind of try and
get as much informationbeforehand.
Then we take that data and weprocess it, and one of the
(06:09):
things that we do is if we get alist of customer accounts by
address, we take that and we askthe computer Okay, place a
point for every account in thisdigital list and it will look up
the address and it willinterpolate a point in the
digital representation of the ofthe United States.
(06:32):
The data that we're using isoften derived from, like a
national E 911 list of validaddresses and the addressing is
is managed for, you know, thatfunction, that emergency
response function, because thatdata exists and has been
(06:52):
compiled into kind of a nationalgeodatabase, we can take a list
of addresses.
We can ask our software okay,go, place a point at every
location based on this addressinformation and we will get a
distribution of points.
You know, not every address ona list is something that can be
geocoded.
Sometimes we we don't have asurface address, sometimes all
(07:15):
we have is a post office box, soin that instance the points get
distributed at the, the centerpoint of a zip code.
But you know, we do generate apoint within our map for every
customer connection.
The degree of accuracy, that's,that's the thing that needs to
(07:36):
be refined and adjusted.
So we build an online map basedon that distribution of those
points.
We take any existing mappingand we will draw in the
approximate locations of waterlines, valves, hydrants, any
other features that that mightbe included in the mapping.
And then what we do is we goout and we visit each individual
(07:59):
point, we search for it, wefind the point that we intend to
collect and we update thatpoint if it's in our existing
database.
If it's not in our existingdatabase, then we capture a new
point.
But we will go point by pointdown the customer connection
list and we will update thelocation for that point from
(08:19):
where the computer drops it towhere our GNSS device says that
location is.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
By physically being there.
You will, I got you.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
We have to find every single point, stand there with
our device and update thatlocation information.
It's a very meticulous process.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Basically, you guys will get the most information
from the client that you can.
You will plot that out the bestyou can, then you go and make
it more accurate.
Is that right?
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Yeah, we verify that location in the field and update
it.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
This is going to sound like a crazy question, tom
, but why is this important?
Why does somebody want this?
Speaker 1 (09:00):
It's a historical record of where things are.
One of our first clients was awater system in Oklahoma, a Toko
Rural Water System.
Number two, that systemexperienced an EF-3 tornado that
hit the town of Tushka, whichis where the office was located.
(09:21):
I think it was like April 14thof 2011.
They lost their office and alltheir records.
They had to kind of buildeverything from scratch.
The community sustained asignificant amount of damage and
that damage can involve waterleaks where, once a structure is
(09:42):
removed from its foundation bya tornado, it will sever the
water lines and the system staffwill have to go out locate the
valve.
That water line is toggled byand they have to locate the
valve and turn it off.
Once a tornado has kind ofrearranged the landmarks on the
town, it's much harder to findthe valves to shut the system
(10:07):
off to stop those leaks.
Those leaks, if left unstopped,will depressurize the system
and you'll lose the capacity toget anyone in town water.
Understanding the location anddistribution of all the valves
is an important way managingdisaster response.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
That totally makes sense to me Is a lot of your
stuff that you're doing for work.
Is it to prepare for those kindof instances or any other
natural disaster?
But also, what about justnormal efficiency in the
workflow for a water system or acommunity?
Is that affected too Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (10:49):
The biggest thing that our client communities face
is normal staff turnover, justregular attrition and we'll get
into communities where it's avery small community and it's
been served by a single wateroperator for decades.
That water operator doesn'tneed a GIS map to know where
(11:09):
everything is, because thatwater operator has all of that
information in his memory and sowhen that individual isn't
available, when that individualdecides to retire, having a GIS
map is a very efficient way topreserve the location of
everything and help with thetransition to a new staff member
(11:30):
.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
So you're going to get out there and you're going
to create them a more accurateassessment of their system.
You're going to get them.
I know they wind up with apaper map and everything.
Let's talk about the digitalside of things, because that's
really pretty powerful stuff forsomebody a water system that's
coming from an operator's memory, or a decades old paper map
into a digital realm wherethere's the ability to add notes
(11:53):
to it, things like that.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
I mean, that's a real benefit, right, yeah it's a
very powerful tool we have onour GIS portal.
We host our client data andwhat we provide is an
interactive interface that youcan access using a laptop or
just a regular personal computer.
(12:15):
And you go to a website that isour GIS portal and you use your
username and credentials thatwe've assigned you, you open the
interface and you have a map.
Essentially, you have a mapavailable to you that you can
click on and open.
Once you're in the map, you canvisually browse.
(12:37):
Just zoom in and out, clickaround, and we have attributes
tied to every feature that we'vecollected.
And you click on a feature thatyou're interested in seeing
about and a pop-up will come upand you can see then all of the
pertinent information that'stied to that feature.
For example, if it's a firehydrant, you click on it and if
(13:00):
we have an identifier, oftenfire departments will go out and
they'll number their firehydrants and then, based on that
number, they'll keep records oninspections and things, and so
we can tie attributes to thatfire hydrant that you know.
We have a number, that's theidentifier you can search on.
(13:22):
We can append inspectiondocuments if you've got an
archive of the fire hydrantsthat you've inspected in the
last year.
With that list condition we canappend those attachments and
then, while we're in the field,often we photograph each item
and so you can click on thepoint.
You can see the notes we'vemade, you can see the
(13:45):
attachments that may have beenadded and you can see a
photograph that we've captured.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Correct me if I'm wrong here when you describe it
and I'm hearing you audiblydescribe it is a good entry
point to understanding what GISis for somebody.
I mean that sounds like GoogleMaps, right, it sounds like a
map where I can go see a pictureof something and I can see
attributes, I can see theaddress, I can see you know
whatever they want to assign thedata to that point on a Google
(14:12):
map.
I understand that it's likedifferent and more technical,
but is that like?
Is that a good entry point tounderstanding?
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Yeah, I think that is a.
You know the presence of GoogleMaps and you know how.
You know everyone has theopportunity to incorporate that
into their daily lives.
But that is a rudimentary GIS.
You have a database of placesand you it's searchable so you
can search for a category ofinformation and then you can
(14:43):
click on the map and findinformation.
You can get you know a contactnumber for a restaurant you want
to visit.
Call them and see if they'reopen, I mean.
So what we offer?
It has a little more expandedfunctionality than Google Maps.
Our GIS map is a little morelayered than Google Maps and I
mean that literally we havelayers that we can turn on and
(15:05):
off, that you can browse.
Our layers are searchable, soour clients can search for an
individual feature, anindividual customer, an
individual account number, ameter number, and all of the
attributes that we have takenthe time to document are
available and at theirfingertips.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Gotcha, we're speaking to Don Becker.
Don is the GIS coordinator atCommunities Unlimited.
This is a small talk.
Do you find that thecommunities who work in majority
rural do they understand theimportance of GIS when you, when
you, walk into a community, oris it something you have to
educate from day one?
Speaker 1 (15:41):
It.
Honestly, it depends on theindividuals involved and we get
some mixed responses, you know,and sometimes the the person who
really understands the value ofGIS isn't the person that we
end up working with right,sometimes it's the mayor,
sometimes it's the boardpresident, sometimes it's a
(16:02):
board member, but you knowsomeone understands the value
and is interested in getting ourservices.
You know, we'll come into acommunity and often we'll
encounter some resistance, rightIn a small community, and the
operator who's been there fordecades, you know, will tell me
flat out I don't need yourservices, I don't need your GIS
(16:25):
map, I know where everything is,and so we'll we'll get
resistance, and so we have tostart that education, overcome
that resistance and and and getthe individual to buy in a
little bit and to understand it.
And you know, and sometimes wehave to spend it a little bit or
sell it a little bit.
And you know, for a long timeoperator that's doesn't have a
(16:46):
very high digital literacy,isn't interested in smartphones,
you know, and and doesn't seethe value in what we do.
I approach them with with thingslike you know, I know, you know
where everything is, but if yougo on vacation and someone
needs to find, turn off aconnection.
Turn on a connection, turn offa segment of line you don't get
(17:07):
your time off.
But with our GIS map, thelocation of things is something
that can be easily obtained byanyone with access to the
desktop or the mobileapplication.
We have a smartphone app thatField Personnel can use and you
can search for, find and thennavigate to a specific location
(17:29):
and you can walk right up on avalve or a meter and turn it off
.
It offers the long-time managerthe opportunity to take a break
.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
So we mostly talked about GIS in the context of a
water system so far.
But that's just, I mean, that'sjust one usage of it, right
yeah?
Speaker 1 (17:50):
you know a lot of our initial clients were water and
wastewater systems and so youknow our strategies and our
mindset kind of started at thatpoint and so we kind of talk a
lot about that.
But our communitysustainability program our
clients are often municipalities.
In that context, you know themunicipality manages a lot more
(18:14):
than just the water wastewatersystem.
You know they manage the roads,they manage parks, the cemetery
, and one of the moreinteresting projects we did was
about a year ago.
We went to Tallahino, oklahoma,and we mapped their old
historic cemetery which had over2,100 grave markers, you know,
headstones and several dozenpossible grave markers.
(18:39):
Because it's an old cemetery,certain individuals, their
graves may have been marked justby a stack of stones, you know,
and maybe a wooden marker, andthe wooden marker doesn't have a
very long lifespan.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Yeah, and he's gonna disappear, he's gonna rot away,
you know.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Yeah, and so in that circumstance, the city personnel
would get calls from peoplefrom out of the area trying to
visit the gravesite of a lovedone.
And the size of the cemetery andthe layout of the cemetery
being kind of organically laidout, it was not very precisely
(19:17):
laid out in rows, with noreference system the people were
having a real hard timedirecting members of the public
to where their final restingplace, and so navigating that
cemetery posed a huge problem,and so what they asked us to do
was to come in, collect a pointfor every single headstone out
(19:38):
there and every single possiblegrave marker.
And so we went out there and Ithink we ended up with over
2,200 marker locations and wephotographed every single marker
and we created a database thatincluded all of the information
that was on the marker.
(20:00):
So everything you would see ona headstone ends up in our
database and it becomessearchable, and then it becomes
navigable.
You can search for a relativeif you're in the cemetery and
you access the map from themobile device.
You can even navigate right tothe individual you're trying to
find.
(20:20):
We also supplemented the pointdata we collected with we flew a
drone and we collected a highresolution ortho image that we
used as a base map, and soyou've got this very high
accuracy ortho mosaic imagerythat the points for the
(20:42):
headstones that are seen on topof, and so you can actually see
the photograph of a lot of theheadstones, and the resolution
was high enough that you couldeven see the flower arrangements
on some of the grave sites.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
That's the layers you were talking about earlier,
right?
Okay, that sounds like wherethe true power of GIS is is
being able to layer data uponanother layer of data on a map
that's navigable and accurate,and it sounds like a really
powerful tool.
Do you feel that communities,water systems we're kind of
talking about them all in oneunderstand the full power of a
(21:22):
GIS mapping project, or do youfeel like there's a lot to be
desired there?
Speaker 1 (21:27):
You know, I think, that a lot of our client
communities don't understand thevalue of the product until we
deploy it.
You know, once the work is doneand once the staff have a
comfort level with the toolsthat we offer them, but once
(21:48):
they've cleared that hurdle andthey start to actually manage
their GIS map and rely on it ona daily basis, the light bulb
goes off and they becomeincreasingly dependent on that,
on that tool, and increasinglyappreciative of it.
But it's a process, it's aninvestment.
(22:08):
I have encountered severalindividuals that were resistant
to the concept, were resistantto the idea, whom, after having
spent time working with thefinal product, they come around.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Yeah, I bet they do, because it's powerful man, I
mean there's, it's efficient, itbecomes something, like you
said, they rely upon and itallows people who are spread
then anyway, to be able to bemore efficient with their work
and more accurate in theirassessment of a problem or a
project.
We're going to revisit thiseventually because I don't think
we've even really scratched thesurface in our time here yet,
(22:46):
don.
But if I could ask you to dreama little bit here, like what is
the future of GIS at CU and inthe work that CU does, do you
see it being more obviouslywater systems?
I can understand the mappingneed there.
Is it there or is it somewhereelse?
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Well, I think a lot of the value is expanding
awareness, communities thatdon't have GIS, offering them
that capability and so bringingintroducing that technology to
communities that don't have it Imean, there's always going to
be a need for that Taking ourexisting clients and expanding
(23:26):
their functionality.
We are encouraging a lot of ourcurrent GIS users to consider
asset management functions.
So we provide them with aninventory, a geospatial
inventory, of what they have andwhere they have it.
But that's just the beginning.
They can then take thatinformation and they can start
(23:48):
adding other values in there,like when an asset was installed
and then understanding thatcertain categories of assets
have a certain lifespan.
Our GIS.
We can support very basicfunctionality where, if we know
when something was installed andwe know what the recommended
(24:08):
lifespan is, we can do on thefly calculations and show them
on a map.
Here are your assets that arenear the end of their useful
life and that then can become aplanning tool, a budgeting tool.
Okay, looking at the map, wehave a certain percentage of
fire hydrants that are going toneed to be replaced and then it
(24:30):
becomes a planning tool.
You can use the GIS map totrack your maintenance If you
document when that maintenanceoccurs and what you've done on
the map.
Then you have a record ofwhat's happened over the year
and where, and then we mightidentify hotspots.
Okay, here is a line where wehave repeated leaks.
(24:54):
Maybe it's time to replace thatline.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Yeah, if you're starting to see visits to a
similar area for work, you canreally start to identify hey,
there might be something biggergoing on there.
All right, I'm picking up whatyou're putting down a little bit
, Don, and those functionsbecome more analytical.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Right, we're doing some analysis and so if we can
get clients interested in thoseanalytical functions, they'll
get even more out of having thatGIS product.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yeah, I mean again, we're back to the layers.
Right, the layers can beinfinite.
They can be very, very helpfuland you get out what you put in,
right, yes, so okay, I want toleave this here because I think
that's a pretty goodintroduction to GIS, but I want
to ask you one question that Ikind of probably should have
asked you at the beginning howdo people become engaged with
(25:44):
the GIS department atCommunities and Lend?
Let's say, somebody hears thispodcast right now and they're
like I probably need to talk tothese people.
How do they do it?
Speaker 1 (25:51):
We have our staff members, our technical
assistance providers, that aredistributed across the CU region
.
If you have an existingrelationship with a CU staff
member, reach out to that staffmember.
Ask them to be put in contactwith a member of the GIS staff.
I field calls all the time,providing people with that high
(26:13):
level overview of what we offerand what the benefits are.
They can just go to our websiteand contact us directly.
That information makes its wayto me and I field requests all
the time.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
So, even if they're not engaged currently with our
environmental staff on aparticular project, feel free to
reach out and let's talk aboutGIS, right, is that?
Yeah, ok, cool, all right, donBecker, he's our GIS coordinator
.
You also have a staff thatworks with you.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
We have four individuals, including myself.
We have Trent Nethery, who'sour GIS project manager, and
then we have Harrison Brown andAlex Webb, who are our GIS
specialists, and we each haveour own specialty, our own set
of skills that we're best at,trent, for example, is he's the
(27:09):
lead on our drone program, sohe's the person who I would
refer anyone to if they wantedthe full rundown on what can be
done with our drone technology.
Harrison he's been getting intothe coding and so he does some
customization to the products weprovide.
And then Alex, he's been ourcemetery guy.
(27:32):
He's taken the lead on thecemetery work, and so we each
kind of got our niches.
I'm a little, my experience iskind of broad and historical and
we're kind of expanding ourknowledge base and the things
that we can offer our clients.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
All right, don Becker , gis coordinator at Communities
Unlimited.
Don, thanks for coming on.
Thanks for having me, chris.
This episode 20 of Small Talkwill be back in a couple of
weeks with a new episode.
I think that a lot of our client communities don't
understand the value of theproduct until we deploy it.
And once the staff have acomfort level with the tools
that we offer them, the lightbulb goes off.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Welcome to episode 20 of Small Talk, the Community is
Unlimited podcast.
My name is Chris Baker.
Join today by Don Becker.
Don is the GIS coordinator atCommunity is Unlimited and Don,
just because we tend to love ouracronyms.
Will you tell us what GISstands for?
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Yeah, it's geographic information systems.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
So break this down for me, start top level.
Tell me what that is.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Okay, basically it is a software that the purpose of
is managing geospatial data, sothat's any type of data that can
be tied to a geographiclocation, you know, physical
address, a zip code, a censustract, pretty much anything that
(01:13):
can be tied to its real worldlocation.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
So, for example, just because I know some of the work
we do with this, and this couldbe like a meter for a water
system or it could be anythingtied to a water system.
You're plotting points on a map.
Am I saying that, right?
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:31):
we basically build an inventory of the assets that
you know a particular communitymight manage and if our client
is a water system, then yeah, wewould go out and document the
location of all of their watermeters and other assets that
they manage.
You know, if it can break andsomeone has to go out there find
(01:55):
it and fix it, they should havean inventory that includes a
precise location of what thatitem is and where is it.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Well, let me ask you this Is GPS involved or is it a
whole different thing?
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Yeah, we use the GPS satellite network.
Our hardware uses the kind ofthe global navigation network
which is called a GNSS.
Gps is the United Statesconstellation of satellites, but
we use the Russian satellites,the Chinese satellites, the
(02:28):
Europe satellites also, so weget a broader constellation of
location data broadcast.
Okay, Sounds complicated, is it?
Um no, you know, we just thesatellites are flying around in
space and all they do is sayhere, I am, here, I am, here, I
(02:50):
am.
And we have a receiver thatreceives those that broadcast
and as it picks up and tracks asatellite, you know it's
recording multiple satellitesall at the same time.
And you know we want to have atleast five satellites to get
the best quality signal.
But you know, the presence offive satellites lets us get a
(03:14):
submeter, accurate locations onall the points that we collect.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Okay, so tell me how a community or well, tell me
some of the jobs that you guysdo, so we have a better
understanding of how people useyou guys and the technology that
you possess.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
All right.
Well, initially, you know ourour work started with the
communities unlimitedenvironmental program and we
would go out and we would map aclient water system or a client
wastewater system.
And so we would go out thereand we would meet an individual
(03:52):
from from that system, anemployee or a former employee or
a board member, but someonethat has a good knowledge of
where everything is.
And so we would meet them andthen they would lead us out and
show us all of the assets thatwe're there to map.
It's a very intensive effort,you know we're we're going from
(04:17):
point to point and you knowwe're we're visiting every
location served by that systemand, depending on the size and
distribution of the customersyou know some systems can be
spread out over hundreds ofmiles we're we're out, driving
around and going from point topoint, trying to collect data as
(04:37):
efficiently as possible.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
And then what happens when you when you, let's say,
you're in the truck and you'redriving from connection one to
connection to you arrive atconnection to what happens at
connection to?
Speaker 1 (04:48):
let me first talk about the very basic workflow
that that we have employedBecause, you know, in order to
tell you what happens, you knowwe have to understand the
process.
So let me let me outline theprocess just a little bit.
We have technical assistanceproviders that are living out in
(05:08):
communities across our sevenstates, and so we have personnel
that are pretty local to ourclient communities, and so they
establish a relationship withthe client community.
They establish a need for GISmapping and if, if they bring us
a client that says, hey, we areinterested in your GIS services
(05:28):
, how do we get that done?
We ask them for any existingdata that they might have that
relates to the system.
So if they've got mapping, youknow and that's hard copy
mapping, right If they've got amap that was printed in decades
ago, you know that is the onlythe only record of the
(05:49):
distribution system we ask themfor a digital copy of that, of
that document.
We also ask them for a list oftheir customer accounts and a
list of their meter information,and so we we kind of try and
get as much informationbeforehand.
Then we take that data and weprocess it, and one of the
(06:09):
things that we do is if we get alist of customer accounts by
address, we take that and we askthe computer Okay, place a
point for every account in thisdigital list and it will look up
the address and it willinterpolate a point in the
digital representation of the ofthe United States.
(06:32):
The data that we're using isoften derived from, like a
national E 911 list of validaddresses and the addressing is
is managed for, you know, thatfunction, that emergency
response function, because thatdata exists and has been
(06:52):
compiled into kind of a nationalgeodatabase, we can take a list
of addresses.
We can ask our software okay,go, place a point at every
location based on this addressinformation and we will get a
distribution of points.
You know, not every address ona list is something that can be
geocoded.
Sometimes we we don't have asurface address, sometimes all
(07:15):
we have is a post office box, soin that instance the points get
distributed at the, the centerpoint of a zip code.
But you know, we do generate apoint within our map for every
customer connection.
The degree of accuracy, that's,that's the thing that needs to
(07:36):
be refined and adjusted.
So we build an online map basedon that distribution of those
points.
We take any existing mappingand we will draw in the
approximate locations of waterlines, valves, hydrants, any
other features that that mightbe included in the mapping.
And then what we do is we goout and we visit each individual
(07:59):
point, we search for it, wefind the point that we intend to
collect and we update thatpoint if it's in our existing
database.
If it's not in our existingdatabase, then we capture a new
point.
But we will go point by pointdown the customer connection
list and we will update thelocation for that point from
(08:19):
where the computer drops it towhere our GNSS device says that
location is.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
By physically being there.
You will, I got you.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
We have to find every single point, stand there with
our device and update thatlocation information.
It's a very meticulous process.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Basically, you guys will get the most information
from the client that you can.
You will plot that out the bestyou can, then you go and make
it more accurate.
Is that right?
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Yeah, we verify that location in the field and update
it.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
This is going to sound like a crazy question, tom
, but why is this important?
Why does somebody want this?
Speaker 1 (09:00):
It's a historical record of where things are.
One of our first clients was awater system in Oklahoma, a Toko
Rural Water System.
Number two, that systemexperienced an EF-3 tornado that
hit the town of Tushka, whichis where the office was located.
(09:21):
I think it was like April 14thof 2011.
They lost their office and alltheir records.
They had to kind of buildeverything from scratch.
The community sustained asignificant amount of damage and
that damage can involve waterleaks where, once a structure is
(09:42):
removed from its foundation bya tornado, it will sever the
water lines and the system staffwill have to go out locate the
valve.
That water line is toggled byand they have to locate the
valve and turn it off.
Once a tornado has kind ofrearranged the landmarks on the
town, it's much harder to findthe valves to shut the system
(10:07):
off to stop those leaks.
Those leaks, if left unstopped,will depressurize the system
and you'll lose the capacity toget anyone in town water.
Understanding the location anddistribution of all the valves
is an important way managingdisaster response.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
That totally makes sense to me Is a lot of your
stuff that you're doing for work.
Is it to prepare for those kindof instances or any other
natural disaster?
But also, what about justnormal efficiency in the
workflow for a water system or acommunity?
Is that affected too Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (10:49):
The biggest thing that our client communities face
is normal staff turnover, justregular attrition and we'll get
into communities where it's avery small community and it's
been served by a single wateroperator for decades.
That water operator doesn'tneed a GIS map to know where
(11:09):
everything is, because thatwater operator has all of that
information in his memory and sowhen that individual isn't
available, when that individualdecides to retire, having a GIS
map is a very efficient way topreserve the location of
everything and help with thetransition to a new staff member
(11:30):
.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
So you're going to get out there and you're going
to create them a more accurateassessment of their system.
You're going to get them.
I know they wind up with apaper map and everything.
Let's talk about the digitalside of things, because that's
really pretty powerful stuff forsomebody a water system that's
coming from an operator's memory, or a decades old paper map
into a digital realm wherethere's the ability to add notes
(11:53):
to it, things like that.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
I mean, that's a real benefit, right, yeah it's a
very powerful tool we have onour GIS portal.
We host our client data andwhat we provide is an
interactive interface that youcan access using a laptop or
just a regular personal computer.
(12:15):
And you go to a website that isour GIS portal and you use your
username and credentials thatwe've assigned you, you open the
interface and you have a map.
Essentially, you have a mapavailable to you that you can
click on and open.
Once you're in the map, you canvisually browse.
(12:37):
Just zoom in and out, clickaround, and we have attributes
tied to every feature that we'vecollected.
And you click on a feature thatyou're interested in seeing
about and a pop-up will come upand you can see then all of the
pertinent information that'stied to that feature.
For example, if it's a firehydrant, you click on it and if
(13:00):
we have an identifier, oftenfire departments will go out and
they'll number their firehydrants and then, based on that
number, they'll keep records oninspections and things, and so
we can tie attributes to thatfire hydrant that you know.
We have a number, that's theidentifier you can search on.
(13:22):
We can append inspectiondocuments if you've got an
archive of the fire hydrantsthat you've inspected in the
last year.
With that list condition we canappend those attachments and
then, while we're in the field,often we photograph each item
and so you can click on thepoint.
You can see the notes we'vemade, you can see the
(13:45):
attachments that may have beenadded and you can see a
photograph that we've captured.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Correct me if I'm wrong here when you describe it
and I'm hearing you audiblydescribe it is a good entry
point to understanding what GISis for somebody.
I mean that sounds like GoogleMaps, right, it sounds like a
map where I can go see a pictureof something and I can see
attributes, I can see theaddress, I can see you know
whatever they want to assign thedata to that point on a Google
(14:12):
map.
I understand that it's likedifferent and more technical,
but is that like?
Is that a good entry point tounderstanding?
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Yeah, I think that is a.
You know the presence of GoogleMaps and you know how.
You know everyone has theopportunity to incorporate that
into their daily lives.
But that is a rudimentary GIS.
You have a database of placesand you it's searchable so you
can search for a category ofinformation and then you can
(14:43):
click on the map and findinformation.
You can get you know a contactnumber for a restaurant you want
to visit.
Call them and see if they'reopen, I mean.
So what we offer?
It has a little more expandedfunctionality than Google Maps.
Our GIS map is a little morelayered than Google Maps and I
mean that literally we havelayers that we can turn on and
(15:05):
off, that you can browse.
Our layers are searchable, soour clients can search for an
individual feature, anindividual customer, an
individual account number, ameter number, and all of the
attributes that we have takenthe time to document are
available and at theirfingertips.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Gotcha, we're speaking to Don Becker.
Don is the GIS coordinator atCommunities Unlimited.
This is a small talk.
Do you find that thecommunities who work in majority
rural do they understand theimportance of GIS when you, when
you, walk into a community, oris it something you have to
educate from day one?
Speaker 1 (15:41):
It.
Honestly, it depends on theindividuals involved and we get
some mixed responses, you know,and sometimes the the person who
really understands the value ofGIS isn't the person that we
end up working with right,sometimes it's the mayor,
sometimes it's the boardpresident, sometimes it's a
(16:02):
board member, but you knowsomeone understands the value
and is interested in getting ourservices.
You know, we'll come into acommunity and often we'll
encounter some resistance, rightIn a small community, and the
operator who's been there fordecades, you know, will tell me
flat out I don't need yourservices, I don't need your GIS
(16:25):
map, I know where everything is,and so we'll we'll get
resistance, and so we have tostart that education, overcome
that resistance and and and getthe individual to buy in a
little bit and to understand it.
And you know, and sometimes wehave to spend it a little bit or
sell it a little bit.
And you know, for a long timeoperator that's doesn't have a
(16:46):
very high digital literacy,isn't interested in smartphones,
you know, and and doesn't seethe value in what we do.
I approach them with with thingslike you know, I know, you know
where everything is, but if yougo on vacation and someone
needs to find, turn off aconnection.
Turn on a connection, turn offa segment of line you don't get
(17:07):
your time off.
But with our GIS map, thelocation of things is something
that can be easily obtained byanyone with access to the
desktop or the mobileapplication.
We have a smartphone app thatField Personnel can use and you
can search for, find and thennavigate to a specific location
(17:29):
and you can walk right up on avalve or a meter and turn it off
.
It offers the long-time managerthe opportunity to take a break
.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
So we mostly talked about GIS in the context of a
water system so far.
But that's just, I mean, that'sjust one usage of it, right
yeah?
Speaker 1 (17:50):
you know a lot of our initial clients were water and
wastewater systems and so youknow our strategies and our
mindset kind of started at thatpoint and so we kind of talk a
lot about that.
But our communitysustainability program our
clients are often municipalities.
In that context, you know themunicipality manages a lot more
(18:14):
than just the water wastewatersystem.
You know they manage the roads,they manage parks, the cemetery
, and one of the moreinteresting projects we did was
about a year ago.
We went to Tallahino, oklahoma,and we mapped their old
historic cemetery which had over2,100 grave markers, you know,
headstones and several dozenpossible grave markers.
(18:39):
Because it's an old cemetery,certain individuals, their
graves may have been marked justby a stack of stones, you know,
and maybe a wooden marker, andthe wooden marker doesn't have a
very long lifespan.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Yeah, and he's gonna disappear, he's gonna rot away,
you know.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Yeah, and so in that circumstance, the city personnel
would get calls from peoplefrom out of the area trying to
visit the gravesite of a lovedone.
And the size of the cemetery andthe layout of the cemetery
being kind of organically laidout, it was not very precisely
(19:17):
laid out in rows, with noreference system the people were
having a real hard timedirecting members of the public
to where their final restingplace, and so navigating that
cemetery posed a huge problem,and so what they asked us to do
was to come in, collect a pointfor every single headstone out
(19:38):
there and every single possiblegrave marker.
And so we went out there and Ithink we ended up with over
2,200 marker locations and wephotographed every single marker
and we created a database thatincluded all of the information
that was on the marker.
(20:00):
So everything you would see ona headstone ends up in our
database and it becomessearchable, and then it becomes
navigable.
You can search for a relativeif you're in the cemetery and
you access the map from themobile device.
You can even navigate right tothe individual you're trying to
find.
(20:20):
We also supplemented the pointdata we collected with we flew a
drone and we collected a highresolution ortho image that we
used as a base map, and soyou've got this very high
accuracy ortho mosaic imagerythat the points for the
(20:42):
headstones that are seen on topof, and so you can actually see
the photograph of a lot of theheadstones, and the resolution
was high enough that you couldeven see the flower arrangements
on some of the grave sites.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
That's the layers you were talking about earlier,
right?
Okay, that sounds like wherethe true power of GIS is is
being able to layer data uponanother layer of data on a map
that's navigable and accurate,and it sounds like a really
powerful tool.
Do you feel that communities,water systems we're kind of
talking about them all in oneunderstand the full power of a
(21:22):
GIS mapping project, or do youfeel like there's a lot to be
desired there?
Speaker 1 (21:27):
You know, I think, that a lot of our client
communities don't understand thevalue of the product until we
deploy it.
You know, once the work is doneand once the staff have a
comfort level with the toolsthat we offer them, but once
(21:48):
they've cleared that hurdle andthey start to actually manage
their GIS map and rely on it ona daily basis, the light bulb
goes off and they becomeincreasingly dependent on that,
on that tool, and increasinglyappreciative of it.
But it's a process, it's aninvestment.
(22:08):
I have encountered severalindividuals that were resistant
to the concept, were resistantto the idea, whom, after having
spent time working with thefinal product, they come around.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Yeah, I bet they do, because it's powerful man, I
mean there's, it's efficient, itbecomes something, like you
said, they rely upon and itallows people who are spread
then anyway, to be able to bemore efficient with their work
and more accurate in theirassessment of a problem or a
project.
We're going to revisit thiseventually because I don't think
we've even really scratched thesurface in our time here yet,
(22:46):
don.
But if I could ask you to dreama little bit here, like what is
the future of GIS at CU and inthe work that CU does, do you
see it being more obviouslywater systems?
I can understand the mappingneed there.
Is it there or is it somewhereelse?
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Well, I think a lot of the value is expanding
awareness, communities thatdon't have GIS, offering them
that capability and so bringingintroducing that technology to
communities that don't have it Imean, there's always going to
be a need for that Taking ourexisting clients and expanding
(23:26):
their functionality.
We are encouraging a lot of ourcurrent GIS users to consider
asset management functions.
So we provide them with aninventory, a geospatial
inventory, of what they have andwhere they have it.
But that's just the beginning.
They can then take thatinformation and they can start
(23:48):
adding other values in there,like when an asset was installed
and then understanding thatcertain categories of assets
have a certain lifespan.
Our GIS.
We can support very basicfunctionality where, if we know
when something was installed andwe know what the recommended
(24:08):
lifespan is, we can do on thefly calculations and show them
on a map.
Here are your assets that arenear the end of their useful
life and that then can become aplanning tool, a budgeting tool.
Okay, looking at the map, wehave a certain percentage of
fire hydrants that are going toneed to be replaced and then it
(24:30):
becomes a planning tool.
You can use the GIS map totrack your maintenance If you
document when that maintenanceoccurs and what you've done on
the map.
Then you have a record ofwhat's happened over the year
and where, and then we mightidentify hotspots.
Okay, here is a line where wehave repeated leaks.
(24:54):
Maybe it's time to replace thatline.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Yeah, if you're starting to see visits to a
similar area for work, you canreally start to identify hey,
there might be something biggergoing on there.
All right, I'm picking up whatyou're putting down a little bit
, Don, and those functionsbecome more analytical.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Right, we're doing some analysis and so if we can
get clients interested in thoseanalytical functions, they'll
get even more out of having thatGIS product.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yeah, I mean again, we're back to the layers.
Right, the layers can beinfinite.
They can be very, very helpfuland you get out what you put in,
right, yes, so okay, I want toleave this here because I think
that's a pretty goodintroduction to GIS, but I want
to ask you one question that Ikind of probably should have
asked you at the beginning howdo people become engaged with
(25:44):
the GIS department atCommunities and Lend?
Let's say, somebody hears thispodcast right now and they're
like I probably need to talk tothese people.
How do they do it?
Speaker 1 (25:51):
We have our staff members, our technical
assistance providers, that aredistributed across the CU region
.
If you have an existingrelationship with a CU staff
member, reach out to that staffmember.
Ask them to be put in contactwith a member of the GIS staff.
I field calls all the time,providing people with that high
(26:13):
level overview of what we offerand what the benefits are.
They can just go to our websiteand contact us directly.
That information makes its wayto me and I field requests all
the time.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
So, even if they're not engaged currently with our
environmental staff on aparticular project, feel free to
reach out and let's talk aboutGIS, right, is that?
Yeah, ok, cool, all right, donBecker, he's our GIS coordinator
.
You also have a staff thatworks with you.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
We have four individuals, including myself.
We have Trent Nethery, who'sour GIS project manager, and
then we have Harrison Brown andAlex Webb, who are our GIS
specialists, and we each haveour own specialty, our own set
of skills that we're best at,trent, for example, is he's the
(27:09):
lead on our drone program, sohe's the person who I would
refer anyone to if they wantedthe full rundown on what can be
done with our drone technology.
Harrison he's been getting intothe coding and so he does some
customization to the products weprovide.
And then Alex, he's been ourcemetery guy.
(27:32):
He's taken the lead on thecemetery work, and so we each
kind of got our niches.
I'm a little, my experience iskind of broad and historical and
we're kind of expanding ourknowledge base and the things
that we can offer our clients.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
All right, don Becker , gis coordinator at Communities
Unlimited.
Don, thanks for coming on.
Thanks for having me, chris.
This episode 20 of Small Talkwill be back in a couple of
weeks with a new episode.
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