July 18, 2024 • 34 mins
Could a small town's dream to revitalize its downtown become a reality? Discover the inspiring story of Atoka, Oklahoma, and the community efforts that have breathed new life into this historic town. We sit down with City Manager Danny Delay and Economic Development Director Carol Ervin, who reveal their strategies for transforming Atoka. From extensive planning to community-driven initiatives, learn how they've harnessed local and external support—including a boost from country music legend Reba McEntire—to turn their ambitious vision into a thriving reality.
Join us as Danny and Carol share the behind-the-scenes formation of Team Atoka and the pivotal implementation of a TIF district, breathing new life into long-neglected buildings. Hear about their collaboration with the Choctaw Nation, which played a crucial role in the town's economic resurgence. We explore Reba's Place, a unique three-story venue that has become a symbol of Atoka's revival, blending restaurant, entertainment, and retail to attract both locals and tourists alike. This episode highlights the power of collaboration and the vital role of strategic investments in driving small-town success.
We also delve into the lessons learned from Atoka's journey, emphasizing the importance of transparency, community engagement, and flexible planning. Danny and Carol discuss how they’ve navigated challenges, engaged critics, and leveraged federal incentives to support their goals. Gain insights into creating a supportive, diverse council and the transformative power of community-driven projects.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Atoka is a great town .
When I told my daughter I wasmoving back here, she said you
know, mom, there's justsomething about that little town
that just calls to us.
We have a very diverse council.
Our council really representsall of Atoka and they work well
together.
They see the big picture andthey work towards that.
The people that are on ourcouncil are there because they
(00:23):
want what's best.
For a token, they don't have anagenda.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Welcome to Small Talk , the Communities Unlimited
podcast.
Communities Unlimited is a501c3 nonprofit founded in 1976
to connect people to solutionsthrough human connections.
We work in a seven-state regionin the southern US, an area
with many rural communities, andwe believe that what you look
like or how much money you haveshould not determine access to
(00:48):
opportunities.
Today we're taking a trip toAtoka, oklahoma, a community of
a little over 3,000 residentslocated just about halfway
between Oklahoma City and Dallas.
Atoka is located on ChoctawReservation land and has been
working for many years on a planto revitalize their downtown.
Recently, along with assistancefrom a very famous investor,
(01:08):
the community has really teamedup to make huge strides forward.
Let's meet two of those peopleresponsible right now.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Danny DeLay, City Manager.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Carol Irvin Economic Development.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Welcome to the podcast.
We think you guys have done abang-up job so far with your
downtown and your revitalizationefforts, and I know there's
still a lot that's in progressin that area.
But I think you got a dang goodstart and we want to talk to
you guys today, because theysaid that you guys were the ones
who were responsible for it.
No, no laughter, you're serious, but like I know that, it takes
(01:42):
everybody.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
It takes.
You just have to have the rightcatalyst.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah, so tell me about the catalyst, carol.
I mean, obviously you've beeninvolved in that, you're
economic development director.
Tell me about what you meant bycatalyst there.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
There have been groups working for decades on
making a TOCA better, takingwhat we've got and expanding
upon it.
The goal of the IndustrialDevelopment Authority is to
bring jobs, and we learnedthrough a series of industries
coming to visit us that therewere some things that we needed
(02:14):
to do to attract them, and oneof those main things was to
clean up our downtown and makeit more appealing.
They needed some place wheretheir people would want to live
and be involved.
We really needed to improve thequality of life for our
citizens.
We started that by we didn't dolet's do this first, and then
(02:38):
we'll do that, and then we'll dothat.
We attacked the whole thing atthe same time.
So we had community meetings.
We hired some architects tocome in and everybody got to
draw on these pretty little maps, and then they took that back
and they developed a downtowndevelopment plan, and so we had
a lot of community input fromthe beginning, and what we found
(02:58):
through this whole process isthat the positive people started
getting a voice.
They had always been there, butwe tend to always hear the
negative, and finally thepositive people started getting
a voice.
We formed Team Atoka, which isa method of being transparent
but also pulling in peoplewithin our community that have
(03:20):
expertise to work on specificproblems, and so it grows and
expands, or contracts, dependingon the project that's coming in
.
We use it on the industrialpark.
We used it a lot when we weretrying to get rail service to
our industrial park.
We used it extensively ondowntown.
There were so many differentgroups working together to help
(03:41):
with our downtown but at thesame time, what we did is we had
that downtown vision plan andwe established a TIF district,
the Industrial DevelopmentAuthority.
The board allowed us to buyfour buildings and start
renovating them, cleaning themup.
These buildings had been forsale for over a decade and
(04:02):
people would not give them whatthey had to have out of them.
They would pay them half ofwhat they needed.
But we came in, we gave themwhat they had to have out of
them and in the middle of allthat, we basically developed a
10-year plan for redevelopingour downtown.
We also pitched to Reba andwhen she came on board, that
(04:23):
took our 10-year plan to atwo-year plan and we did all
hands on deck and everything wecould Danny applied for I don't
know how many grants that werespecifically for developing
outdoor spaces.
You know, with COVID and all ofthat that hit because COVID hit
right when we started all this.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
That's what I was going to ask is when?
Because you said 10-year planand I was kind of wondering how
far into that plan you were.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
So we started the plan in 18, towards the end of
18, 19 is when we really kickedit into gear, and then, of
course, 20 is when COVID hit.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
I got here in August of 20.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah, okay, and so we were kicking that up.
One of the other issues that wehad was the fact that we had so
many dilapidated structures.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I'm not in city management, planning, whatever
you want to call it.
I'm not in economic development.
When you see dilapidatedbuildings, when you see these,
because that's a big project,right, I mean, reviving a
building is not an easy task,it's not cheap.
Where do you start with that,like what's the first thing you
do?
Speaker 1 (05:31):
You hire somebody like Danny who believes in code
enforcement.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Yeah, we had to implement code enforcement.
They had started it a littlebit prior to me getting here,
but they hadn't really enforcedit, and so we started revamping
our code enforcement policiesand enforcing those, and in
(05:56):
doing such, we had to wind uptaking down a lot of structures
in this town that just were pastbeing saved, and so we've
probably took down over 50structures since I've been here.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
I think it's kind of cool that we're in the room that
we're in now, because if youlook at the pictures on the wall
, you can see some of what Atokaused to look like.
Would you guys say you have agoal in mind?
Is there a picture I can lookat that's a finished Atoka
downtown project or is it amoving target?
Speaker 3 (06:27):
It's an ever evolving target, I would say.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
We had the original goal.
Yeah, it has evolved quite abit.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
We have several.
I mean we have several projectsand different stages and other
projects that we want to add tothose projects, for instance
housing, you know that kind ofstuff.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
I hope you guys know that there's a lot of people in
communities right now that arewishing they had you guys, you
know like, because I can tellyou guys have thought this
through and it's a, it's apassion project, right as well.
Danny, you've mentioned acouple of times off Mike.
You grew up here, right, I'velived here all my life.
Yeah, and what about you, carol?
Is it the same?
Speaker 1 (07:05):
No, we actually moved here in 2002 from Houston as
part of a midlife crisis andbought a cattle ranch in the
middle of nowhere, happened tobe next door to Reba's sister,
susie.
In 2012, I actually sold theranch to her family's trust and
moved to Bartlesville and then Imoved back here the very end of
(07:27):
17, beginning of 18 to startthis position.
But Atoka's a great town.
When I told my daughter I wasmoving back here, she said you
know, mom, there's justsomething about that little town
that just calls to us.
We have a very diverse councilthat is very supportive and they
work very hard.
Our council really representsall of Atoka.
(07:48):
So we've got the seniorcitizens, we've got the low
income, we have a school teacher, we have two bankers, but one
is mainly marketing and one ismainly construction.
So we have a wide diversity onour council and they work well
together.
They don't always agree, butthey see the big picture and
they work towards that.
(08:08):
So we were working on a grantwith OU on autonomous vehicles
and mass transit, and so webrought in the council member
that's over INCA that is incharge of our small mass transit
system.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
That's really impressive, because the
diversity in committees andboards and stuff that you're
talking about there, that's notthat common right.
I mean, it's really not.
You're lucky in a way.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
We are Absolutely.
The people that are on ourcouncil are there because they
want what's best for a token.
They don't have an agenda, andthat is rare in a lot of small
communities.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
And after you engage with them for a little while you
learn what their strengths are.
So you want to naturally pullthose strengths.
So anytime you have a topic orany situation we're working on,
then we know kind of who we wantto go to to help with that
project or whatever, because wewant to pull those strengths in.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Our tagline on a lot of our grants, especially on
things that are dealing with alot of advanced technology, is
we are a rural community withurban issues.
Lot of advanced technology iswe are a rural community with
urban issues, and so it givespeople or organizations a way to
test out things like advancedcrosswalks here before they take
(09:26):
and try to put it into Tulsa orOklahoma City, where then it's
a sink or swim.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Oh, I like that actually.
That's really smart.
To market it that way, that'sreally smart.
Never thought about that.
I'm glad you said that, becauseyou know I started off by
saying there's a couple reasonswhy we're here.
One of the reasons we're here,though, is because we want to
use you guys as an example tosome of the other communities
that we work with, Because,again, you're not done right.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
No.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
But you started and it's going well so far.
It is, and I want to tap intosomething that you've mentioned
a couple of times, becausepeople may not know who we're
talking about.
You said Reba a couple of times.
Tell us about what's going onwith Reba McIntyre.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Well, her mother died , I believe, in 2020.
And I was out there visitingwith her and her sister believe
in 2020.
And I was out there visitingwith her and her sister and she
was talking about how she reallywanted to do a project that
would honor her mama and daddyand I said we have a plan.
People have been working onthis plan for 10 years, what
you've just described.
Well before I was here, wellbefore Danny was here, people
(10:30):
had been working on this andagain that was another.
It was a catalyst.
She was a major catalyst thatwhen we again that was another,
it was a catalyst.
She was a major catalyst thatwhen we threw her in the pot, it
just kind of bubbled over.
I said, would you listen to apitch?
And she said yes, becauseeverybody always goes to her and
says you need to do this andyou need to do that, and then
(10:57):
that's all they say.
So we went down to the Choctaws, used their conference center
and we did a full pitch.
It had a 3D walkthrough of whatthe building would look like
and a three-year pro forma.
We pulled out all the stops andso then she partnered with the
Choctaw Nation.
Unique situation for the firsttime ever, the Choctaw Nation
and a private entity went 50-50on a partnership and formed a
third entity, and so all thetaxes are paid on that business,
(11:20):
all the taxes are paid on thatbuilding and the property.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
And the building and the business that you're talking
about.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
clarify for people is so Reba's Place opened a year
ago, january so January 2023 iswhen it opened.
It is three stories, 15,000square feet.
It's the original Masonic Lodgethat we had and it's two floors
of restaurant and entertainmentvenue, a third floor with a
(11:47):
library and a private speakeasyroom that you can rent and
retail.
And the things that are insideit are just so unique the doors
above they used doors above thebooths and those were doors that
were in the building.
The bar is a hundred year oldbar that they found and
refinished.
The ropes as you walk in thedoor and there's ropes on the
(12:09):
wall that kind of make a wall.
Those are from all area ranches.
So there's a lot of just reallyneat stuff that's going into it
.
But the main thing, and the mainthing that she cared about, was
making it something for people,and we always say that Atoka is
the example of the economicmultiplier.
So the economic multiplier iswhen new payroll dollars, how
(12:32):
many times new payroll dollarsturn over in your community?
And Danny and I were sittingthere one day and a local
business owner came in and hesaid you know, I just had to
talk to you.
All you guys kept saying youknow, a rising tide raises all
this stuff.
He said I never believed it.
No way in the world would arestaurant downtown ever affect
my business.
(12:52):
And he said we always dieJanuary through March.
He said this year we didn'tslow down and it's because we
had 120 employees that had moneyto get things fixed.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
And so it just really folds over, and we anticipate
that first year's economicimpact to be over $20 million
from that restaurant alone.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Wow, you know there's other communities are probably
going to hear this and go well,we don't have a Reba McIntyre,
right, and that's a goodsituation, right.
But the lesson from that is notyou've got a celebrity that
wants to invest in yourcommunity.
You actually went with acreative pitch, partnered with
another entity, to makesomething happen had a location,
(13:39):
thought it through, through,had a plan right and we got.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
You know people say well, but you can't do that
again because you don't haveanother.
Even but we still had the10-year plan.
Yeah, it just got shortenedright exactly still we we're at
where we anticipated to be byyear six and we're year two, and
it's just.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Creativity is what it takes.
A little thought right.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
And Danny will attest you've got to have a thick skin
.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, we get hammered sometimes.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Danny being the city manager, let's talk about that.
So if people don't know whatthe city manager's role is, what
do you do here in Etoka, Danny?
Speaker 3 (14:14):
You name it, I do it.
I oversee everything.
It I oversee everything, andnot only economic development,
being involved with her on that.
But my goal is to improve theinfrastructure here, because, as
you probably are well aware,there probably ain't a town in
America that don't have oldinfrastructure that needs to be
(14:34):
replaced, yeah.
So I've been really hammeringon that, especially the last two
years.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Why is that?
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Just because you need to do it.
Yeah, it's just getting older,and if somebody don't do it,
who's going to do it?
Speaker 1 (14:52):
What I'm getting at is what I was hoping you were
saying is if you've got a 10year plan and it doesn't involve
infrastructure, you're going tobe in trouble year 10.
Oh yeah, you know, we wouldhave been in trouble year two if
they hadn't redone all thesewer and water downtown.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Yeah, we redid all that, like she said, at the same
time they were redoing thatbuilding.
I've been fortunate enough toapply for a lot of grants, like
she just said, and I've justrecently got a couple of large
ones from USDA that are going tohelp both water and wastewater,
and I've had some ODOT roadgrants and stuff like that.
So I'm just trying to hit itfrom every angle.
(15:20):
I mean roads, water, sewer.
I mean everything needs to beupdated.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Did you know about that world before you started as
a city manager?
Speaker 3 (15:28):
I pretty well did.
I was with the Department ofCorrections for 30 years.
I was a business manager therefor about 18.
And when you're a businessmanager at a prison, you're
basically a city manager of thatprison.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Right.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Because we have everything inside that prison,
basically that a city or a townhas.
We had our own sewer plant, wehad our own water plant, had our
own law enforcement, we had ourcorrectional officers.
So we had a little bit ofeverything.
I was well aware of all theinfrastructure up there that we
were constantly having to repairand fix and stuff, and being
here all my life, I know whathas and hasn't been done.
(16:04):
I mean you could drive aroundtown and tell there hasn't been
any new asphalt in years.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
I was going to say you might have created some of
those potholes over the years,so I've started probably
dragging the old, you know.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
So we've tried to prioritize and start hitting
some of the worst areas with.
It may just be a block or twoblock area, but you've got to
start somewhere.
So we've been gradually doingsome, doing some streets and
stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
The reason I was asking if you knew about that
world before you started as acity manager is I found that,
like you know, especially in alot of smaller communities,
that's just the person sometimesthat's willing to do the job,
and they may not know of all ofthe things that are available to
them as a resource.
And so I was curious if you did, and you've been doing it how
long now you say It'll?
Speaker 3 (16:51):
be four years in August.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
So what would you say as far as city management, what
advice could you give someonethat's in a small community that
may feel like they're a littlebit lost?
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Reach out and find out different people that you
can reach out to.
That's your valuable resourceto reach out, to get advice from
people.
That if you don't knowsomething, don't be afraid to
ask.
I learned, I still learnsomething all the time.
I don't know it all you know,but by making contacts you
gradually improve over time.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
What about you, carol , in your role, if someone
interested in economicdevelopment I mean, who isn't
right if they're in city work,right, but if someone was really
interested in it but they feltlike you know where would you
start?
Do I Google search some?
Speaker 1 (17:32):
things.
What do I do, you know?
Well, there are some greatorganizations.
I've been a member of CDFA it'sthe Council for Development of
Finance Agencies for years.
I got a lot of training, Ilearned a lot.
I managed a TIF district inBartlesville for six years and
that was an excellent learningsituation.
(17:54):
And, like Danny said, you'vegot to be involved outside of
your own world to be able tounderstand what all is going on,
who is being successful and whois not.
The fact that in southeastOklahoma we are in the Choctaw
Nation and I would put theireconomic development against any
economic development group inthe world a lot of these
(18:21):
communities that are too smallfor an economic development
director.
They will step in and they willrespond to RFPs, the request
for proposals, and present acommunity for a site you know,
and then they will actually goto the community and do the site
visit with the industry.
So that's great.
The Department of Commerce wehave there's regional reps from
the Department of Commerceeverywhere.
(18:41):
They are excellent.
When we have an industry thatwants to come in or somebody
that's just looking, they fillout one form.
We send it to Department ofCommerce and the Department of
Commerce goes through and findsout what incentives they're
available for.
They don't have to apply, theydon't have to fill out one for
(19:01):
this one and this one and thisone.
They fill out one form and dothat.
Know what zones you are in ornot in.
In southeast Oklahoma we're avery depressed economy and so we
are in pretty much everyfederal zone that all of these
industries are looking for.
(19:22):
We're in opportunity zone orAtoka is in an opportunity zone,
we're in a new market taxcredit zone, and the list just
goes on.
Pretty much anything that couldqualify, we can.
And then the quality jobsprogram that the state offers is
a huge help.
The small employer, qualityjobs.
On that you can qualify forthose benefits, which can be up
(19:46):
to five years of property taxabatement.
So things like that are veryimportant.
You know, if you've got a lotof city managers in the really
small communities are putting onall the hats.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
But it's knowing who you can get, because everybody
always says the incentives arethe icing on the cake.
But who wants a cake withouticing?
It's true.
And it's not the cake.
You still have to sell yourcommunity.
Somebody asked what my job?
What do you do?
And I said I sell thiscommunity all over the country,
and that's what you have to do.
(20:23):
You have to market yourself.
You've got to get peopleinvolved and you've got to give
the positive people a voice andhave a plan.
A plan is a plan, it's aguideline.
It's not okay.
Well, you didn't do this andyou said you were going to do
that.
Well, you're right, but thereason we didn't is because we
had to do this.
So you've got to be able to ebband flow, but you've got to
(20:44):
have an end goal, and the endgoal is to improve the quality
of life for the people who livehere and the people who want to
move here.
The main goal and our mayorsays it constantly the main goal
of the Industrial DevelopmentAuthority is so that we don't
export our best commodity, whichis our youth.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
When they, you know we want them to be able to get
an education and then live hereor go to a trade school and live
here and be able to afford ahouse and a family that they
don't have to move off to beable to afford that.
And that's what our goals areand we are slowly making that
progress.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
You know, Carol, you said something there that I
think we probably should diginto a little bit.
You said it brings the positivepeople to the top right.
It gives them a voice.
In your four or five years ofworking on Atoka, I'm sure you
ran into some hurdles, not onlywith people but also with some
red tape or whatever the casemay be.
Maybe some stuff went wrong.
What would you say?
Some of the stuff that you'vepicked up on, that you've
(21:40):
learned from, that would be.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
I would say our transparency.
We work very, very hard atbeing transparent.
What happens on that is the sublevel of people who are
positive.
They want to be involved, theywant to know what's going on and
they know.
Okay, just because somebodysaid something negative, now
they fight for us.
I mean six years ago I wouldget crucified on Facebook.
(22:05):
Now they fight for us.
I mean six years ago.
I would get crucified onFacebook.
And now, when I get crucifiedon Facebook, people fight for me
.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
I usually just keep responding until they quit
responding.
So I just out-respond them.
What do you mean?
Well, they say something, I'llreply back, and then they'll
reply back, and I'll keepreplying back, and I'll keep
answering their questions, andthen they finally just say I
ain't, I'm tired of dealing withhim and I just quit.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Danny's going to get the last word.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
When I feel strongly about something I'll, I'll go
toe to toe with you all day.
It don't matter to me.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
What have you felt strongly on, Like tell me, tell
me a couple of things so peoplecan learn from, from what you've
done?
Speaker 3 (22:39):
If they're, if they're running us down about
something we've done that theydon't understand anything about
it, and I'll explain.
This is why we did this.
At the end of the day, youchange a lot of opinions by just
being straightforward andhonest with them and tell them
and they're like well, I had noidea, well, you didn't ask or
you just assumed.
Don't always assume this,because that's not always going
(23:02):
to be true.
I think if you're justtransparent, like she said, and
open and try to explain things,I can explain things all day.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
So where are you guys at in the process?
Tell me where you're at as ofnow.
I know that's hard to quantify,but in your mind where are you
at with what your goal is forthe city?
70%, 60%.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
In a good place, in a bad place.
We're in a good place, but it'sbecause we've seen some really
great successes and we'restarting to see more.
I mean, once you get that ballrolling, it starts going.
We've got a new industry out atthe industrial park, that is,
they are excellent communitypartners.
We could not have landed themfour years ago.
We've got another industrycoming in and those industries
are the ones that are going topay that higher wage that will
(23:49):
get people into their own houses.
We've got NASA as a partner inour STEM program at our schools.
We've got a flight simulatorfrom Spartan School of
Aeronautics in our elementaryschool and that is in
conjunction with the drone.
We call it the drone ranch.
It's the drone testing centerthat Choctaws have.
(24:11):
It's 45,000 acres, so we havetechnology coming in here and
that's driving a lot of thesefuture workforce.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
I was listening but I heard drone ranch and I kind of
focused on that because I don'tknow what a drone ranch is, but
it sounds really cool.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
So several years ago and it was actually one of the
members of our team ClintHardison happened to be in a
room with NASA and all thesepeople and the problem was there
are air ambulances, there isdrone delivery, there's all of
these different things, but theycouldn't figure out how to put
them in the air at the same timewith commercial air lines.
(24:51):
So they said, well, what if thetribes assert their sovereignty
over the airspace?
And the FAA said oh, whoa, whoa, wait a minute.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Of course they did right.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
And so they awarded 10 sites a three-year program.
The Choctaw Nation beat out thestate of Texas and the state of
New York to be one of thosesites.
Out of the 10 sites, three ofthem failed, a fourth was on the
verge of failing and all theothers, added together, had
flown fewer missions and sharedfewer data than the Choctaw
(25:27):
Nation did on theirs.
It's a very diverse terrainwhere they've got it, and so at
the end of that three years,there were three programs that
they allowed.
They called it the BeyondProgram and the Choctaw Nation,
and two other programs were ableto just keep going, and so we
now have.
They're developing a dronedelivery corridor that will run
(25:49):
from McAllister to, I think,durant, and it goes over the
railroad tracks.
Using that right away, right,so you're not overpopulation.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Right.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
But what that has also led to is a lot of these
high tech companies like NASA,like Bell, to come here and
they're exposed to a token.
They fall in love with usbecause we are now a really fun
town.
We've got live music fournights a week and it's so much
fun.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
I'm going to ask you as a question.
I'm gonna give you a warning soyou can think about your answer
question.
I'm gonna give you a warning soyou can think about your answer
, but I'm going to ask youeventually what you think the
one thing would be that you havelearned, or that you would like
to share with other people whomay be in a position that you
guys were three, four, five, sixyears ago, right, um?
So I want you to know that.
I'm going to ask you that, butI want to talk to Danny for a
second.
Since you've been here yourentire life, danny, take me back
(26:42):
, um to when you were cruisingMaine.
What has changed in Atoka overthat time to today?
Like, what good have you seenthat you can identify?
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Well, I mean, when I was very young it was a very
vibrant town.
I mean, everybody came to townand all your parking spots were
full.
You had to walk places.
We had movie theaters in town,we had all the stores were full
and it was just a fun littleplace to be.
Didn't know much about thehighway, didn't get on it that
(27:14):
much, you know, went out to theDairy Queen every once in a
while.
Since then, stuff startedmoving out to the highway and
the downtown areas, you know,starts dwindling down as
businesses close and so you seeit go the other direction.
Well, now our goal was to tryto bring some of that back, and
that's what we've done, is bringsome of the downtown back to
(27:35):
life.
So I've seen it kind of go fromone extreme back up, so now
it's coming back.
So I've seen the best and worstand hopefully back to the best
again.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
I heard that you guys were showing a movie outside
tonight.
Is that correct?
Tomorrow night, tomorrow night,okay, I think that that really
kind of shows a couple of things.
One you've got the Rebus place,which has the investment and
all that the touristy kind ofthing, almost right.
But then you've also got whereyou're providing for the
community by showing a movieright, doing things that people
(28:07):
want to do in a downtown area.
It's in the green space rightover here, right, I mean, that's
on the backside of downtown.
It's a great spot.
So you got to have a little bitof both.
Right, you're bringing in somepeople from outside that see the
town, but you also and maybemore importantly, in a way, are
providing for your own communityright.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Well, that's our goal to make this a place that you
can.
You want to live, you want towork here and you want to play
here.
If you provide all that, thenyou have a happy place to be.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
OK, so now it's time to answer the question.
What's a piece of information,what's a piece of advice you
would give to someone who may bein a similar position to you
all in a similar kind ofcommunity?
What would you tell them?
Speaker 1 (28:51):
I would say don't underestimate the power of a
community meeting.
We had several getting gearedup for Rebus to open.
Two of those were labeled howto capitalize on this
opportunity.
Yeah, and it was great.
We got a lot of input.
(29:12):
Have a thick skin, but make surethat your, your core people,
are the core people.
The core people have the samegoal, which is to make life
better.
They might have different ideason what that means, but it's
important to make life better.
They might have different ideason what that means, but it's
important to make sure thatyou're not the only person doing
something.
(29:32):
I mean our council, our mayor.
We call on him all the time.
Brian Cathy is excellent athelping our town achieve great
things, and him and the rest ofthe council members have been
(29:53):
working on this for decades.
And being able to have thatcatalyst thrown in there to just
get them over that hump is allyou need.
Having that goal and makingsure it's the community's goal,
not the 20 angry people onFacebook.
Sure, it's the community's goal, not the 20 angry people on
Facebook.
You have to ignore the 20.
20 angry people on Facebookshould never be allowed to hold
a town hostage.
You should be able to representall the constituents of your
(30:15):
city.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
Yeah, I get messages all the time from people that
they want you to know thatthey're supporting you, but
they're the silent majority,right, you know.
But it helps just hearing frompeople want you to know that
they're supporting you, butthey're the silent majority,
right, you know.
Uh but uh.
But it helps just hearing frompeople knowing that you do have
support out there.
But to add on to what she said,I would say identify your
strengths and weaknesses andwhat your priorities are going
to be, and set goals for thoseand then just start gradually
(30:43):
achieving those goals.
Another thing that we'refortunate for is our highway
that runs through town.
It's what 30,000 vehicles a dayon average, so why not have
something to try to pull thosepeople in?
Spend some money while you'repassing through our town.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Yeah, there's a lot of communities that we work with
the Communities Unlimited thathave a similar situation.
They're off the highway maybe alittle bit, maybe not as close
as you all are, but they mightbe off the highway a little bit
and you have to get creativesometimes.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Of course with that comes some obstacles, because a
lot of times congestion andtraffic on the holidays and we
get jammed about that.
We don't control the highways.
That's ODOT.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Danny, you're the city manager, surely control
everything it's my, everything'smy fault.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
You think I got broad shoulders well.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
I want to, I guess, reiterate why we came here today
, and it's to hopefully be ableto use you guys and your efforts
so far as an example for othercommunities who work with.
It can be done.
It is being done, and I hopeyou guys are proud of what
you've done so far as an examplefor other communities who we
work with.
It can be done, it is beingdone and I hope you guys are
proud of what you've done so farand the whole group I know it's
not just you two, but the coregroup and everybody that you
work with as well, because wework with a lot of small
(31:55):
communities and not everyone isin this position.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
We're a team, and what makes us unique is we're
not afraid to pass the ball.
I can toss the ball over toDanny and say Danny, I need help
with this, and I don't have toworry about him hogging the ball
.
Afterwards He'll fix the issueand pass it back, and so it's
being able to pass that ballback and forth.
That really makes a difference.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Yeah, and I'd say just don't give up easy.
I mean, I apply for grants allthe time.
Do I get them all?
No, I don't, but I keepapplying.
The more you apply for, themore you're going to get.
So don't be afraid to jump inthere and just go for it.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
I think that's a really good spot to end on.
Just go for it, right.
Just go for it.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Jump in there and go for it.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
That's what I've done all my life.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Head first right Danny DeLay.
City manager Carol Irvin, youare the economic development
director.
I want to ask you guys as wellif somebody's hearing this and
they're like, hey, I need totalk to this person, is it okay
if somebody calls you up andsays, hey, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Absolutely.
We filled a lot of meetingswith other communities.
One of my favorite ones waswith the State Chamber of
Commerce.
We had a meeting with them andthey said how the heck are you
doing this in Atoka, Oklahoma?
And so we explained to themthis is how we started, this is
where we are at, this is how wedo this, but so many people tend
(33:16):
to be, we're a very smallcommunity.
We don't have the resources forsomebody to say, well, I'm just
gonna take my money and go formmy own organization.
We have to work together andthat is the biggest thing is
being able to combine.
You know, everybody has theirown niche that they are filling,
(33:38):
but they can still worktogether.
And that's the thing is beingable to get your different
organizations to communicate.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
But no, we were always open we filled a lot of
meetings with people and othercommunities.
Okay, if we can help peopleavoid some of the mistakes we've
made, that's a great thing.
Or if we can give them adviceon how to achieve some of their
goals, that's another greatthing, yeah thank you all for
your time.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Thanks for letting us come to your community and
check it out and learn from youas well.
I mean, I I always feel like Ilearned something as well
sitting across from people whoare doing so we're not.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
We're not where we want to be yet, but we're pretty
proud of what we got, so we'reglad you came down to see it
that's another episode of smalltalk, the community's unlimited
podcast.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Thank you very much, very much to Danny and Carol for
your insights and the city ofEtoka as well for the building
where we recorded the podcastand for all the transparency
with the process in Etoka thatyou have been working on.
On the next episode, we'regoing to talk to Michelle Mobs.
She's the owner of TrulyFavorite Bakery in downtown
Etoka to get her experience onthe downtown revitalization
efforts.
I hope to talk to you in acouple of weeks.
Atoka is a great town .
When I told my daughter I wasmoving back here, she said you
know, mom, there's justsomething about that little town
that just calls to us.
We have a very diverse council.
Our council really representsall of Atoka and they work well
together.
They see the big picture andthey work towards that.
The people that are on ourcouncil are there because they
(00:23):
want what's best.
For a token, they don't have anagenda.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Welcome to Small Talk , the Communities Unlimited
podcast.
Communities Unlimited is a501c3 nonprofit founded in 1976
to connect people to solutionsthrough human connections.
We work in a seven-state regionin the southern US, an area
with many rural communities, andwe believe that what you look
like or how much money you haveshould not determine access to
(00:48):
opportunities.
Today we're taking a trip toAtoka, oklahoma, a community of
a little over 3,000 residentslocated just about halfway
between Oklahoma City and Dallas.
Atoka is located on ChoctawReservation land and has been
working for many years on a planto revitalize their downtown.
Recently, along with assistancefrom a very famous investor,
(01:08):
the community has really teamedup to make huge strides forward.
Let's meet two of those peopleresponsible right now.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Danny DeLay, City Manager.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Carol Irvin Economic Development.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Welcome to the podcast.
We think you guys have done abang-up job so far with your
downtown and your revitalizationefforts, and I know there's
still a lot that's in progressin that area.
But I think you got a dang goodstart and we want to talk to
you guys today, because theysaid that you guys were the ones
who were responsible for it.
No, no laughter, you're serious, but like I know that, it takes
(01:42):
everybody.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
It takes.
You just have to have the rightcatalyst.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah, so tell me about the catalyst, carol.
I mean, obviously you've beeninvolved in that, you're
economic development director.
Tell me about what you meant bycatalyst there.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
There have been groups working for decades on
making a TOCA better, takingwhat we've got and expanding
upon it.
The goal of the IndustrialDevelopment Authority is to
bring jobs, and we learnedthrough a series of industries
coming to visit us that therewere some things that we needed
(02:14):
to do to attract them, and oneof those main things was to
clean up our downtown and makeit more appealing.
They needed some place wheretheir people would want to live
and be involved.
We really needed to improve thequality of life for our
citizens.
We started that by we didn't dolet's do this first, and then
(02:38):
we'll do that, and then we'll dothat.
We attacked the whole thing atthe same time.
So we had community meetings.
We hired some architects tocome in and everybody got to
draw on these pretty little maps, and then they took that back
and they developed a downtowndevelopment plan, and so we had
a lot of community input fromthe beginning, and what we found
(02:58):
through this whole process isthat the positive people started
getting a voice.
They had always been there, butwe tend to always hear the
negative, and finally thepositive people started getting
a voice.
We formed Team Atoka, which isa method of being transparent
but also pulling in peoplewithin our community that have
(03:20):
expertise to work on specificproblems, and so it grows and
expands, or contracts, dependingon the project that's coming in
.
We use it on the industrialpark.
We used it a lot when we weretrying to get rail service to
our industrial park.
We used it extensively ondowntown.
There were so many differentgroups working together to help
(03:41):
with our downtown but at thesame time, what we did is we had
that downtown vision plan andwe established a TIF district,
the Industrial DevelopmentAuthority.
The board allowed us to buyfour buildings and start
renovating them, cleaning themup.
These buildings had been forsale for over a decade and
(04:02):
people would not give them whatthey had to have out of them.
They would pay them half ofwhat they needed.
But we came in, we gave themwhat they had to have out of
them and in the middle of allthat, we basically developed a
10-year plan for redevelopingour downtown.
We also pitched to Reba andwhen she came on board, that
(04:23):
took our 10-year plan to atwo-year plan and we did all
hands on deck and everything wecould Danny applied for I don't
know how many grants that werespecifically for developing
outdoor spaces.
You know, with COVID and all ofthat that hit because COVID hit
right when we started all this.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
That's what I was going to ask is when?
Because you said 10-year planand I was kind of wondering how
far into that plan you were.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
So we started the plan in 18, towards the end of
18, 19 is when we really kickedit into gear, and then, of
course, 20 is when COVID hit.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
I got here in August of 20.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah, okay, and so we were kicking that up.
One of the other issues that wehad was the fact that we had so
many dilapidated structures.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I'm not in city management, planning, whatever
you want to call it.
I'm not in economic development.
When you see dilapidatedbuildings, when you see these,
because that's a big project,right, I mean, reviving a
building is not an easy task,it's not cheap.
Where do you start with that,like what's the first thing you
do?
Speaker 1 (05:31):
You hire somebody like Danny who believes in code
enforcement.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Yeah, we had to implement code enforcement.
They had started it a littlebit prior to me getting here,
but they hadn't really enforcedit, and so we started revamping
our code enforcement policiesand enforcing those, and in
(05:56):
doing such, we had to wind uptaking down a lot of structures
in this town that just were pastbeing saved, and so we've
probably took down over 50structures since I've been here.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
I think it's kind of cool that we're in the room that
we're in now, because if youlook at the pictures on the wall
, you can see some of what Atokaused to look like.
Would you guys say you have agoal in mind?
Is there a picture I can lookat that's a finished Atoka
downtown project or is it amoving target?
Speaker 3 (06:27):
It's an ever evolving target, I would say.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
We had the original goal.
Yeah, it has evolved quite abit.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
We have several.
I mean we have several projectsand different stages and other
projects that we want to add tothose projects, for instance
housing, you know that kind ofstuff.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
I hope you guys know that there's a lot of people in
communities right now that arewishing they had you guys, you
know like, because I can tellyou guys have thought this
through and it's a, it's apassion project, right as well.
Danny, you've mentioned acouple of times off Mike.
You grew up here, right, I'velived here all my life.
Yeah, and what about you, carol?
Is it the same?
Speaker 1 (07:05):
No, we actually moved here in 2002 from Houston as
part of a midlife crisis andbought a cattle ranch in the
middle of nowhere, happened tobe next door to Reba's sister,
susie.
In 2012, I actually sold theranch to her family's trust and
moved to Bartlesville and then Imoved back here the very end of
(07:27):
17, beginning of 18 to startthis position.
But Atoka's a great town.
When I told my daughter I wasmoving back here, she said you
know, mom, there's justsomething about that little town
that just calls to us.
We have a very diverse councilthat is very supportive and they
work very hard.
Our council really representsall of Atoka.
(07:48):
So we've got the seniorcitizens, we've got the low
income, we have a school teacher, we have two bankers, but one
is mainly marketing and one ismainly construction.
So we have a wide diversity onour council and they work well
together.
They don't always agree, butthey see the big picture and
they work towards that.
(08:08):
So we were working on a grantwith OU on autonomous vehicles
and mass transit, and so webrought in the council member
that's over INCA that is incharge of our small mass transit
system.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
That's really impressive, because the
diversity in committees andboards and stuff that you're
talking about there, that's notthat common right.
I mean, it's really not.
You're lucky in a way.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
We are Absolutely.
The people that are on ourcouncil are there because they
want what's best for a token.
They don't have an agenda, andthat is rare in a lot of small
communities.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
And after you engage with them for a little while you
learn what their strengths are.
So you want to naturally pullthose strengths.
So anytime you have a topic orany situation we're working on,
then we know kind of who we wantto go to to help with that
project or whatever, because wewant to pull those strengths in.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Our tagline on a lot of our grants, especially on
things that are dealing with alot of advanced technology, is
we are a rural community withurban issues.
Lot of advanced technology iswe are a rural community with
urban issues, and so it givespeople or organizations a way to
test out things like advancedcrosswalks here before they take
(09:26):
and try to put it into Tulsa orOklahoma City, where then it's
a sink or swim.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Oh, I like that actually.
That's really smart.
To market it that way, that'sreally smart.
Never thought about that.
I'm glad you said that, becauseyou know I started off by
saying there's a couple reasonswhy we're here.
One of the reasons we're here,though, is because we want to
use you guys as an example tosome of the other communities
that we work with, Because,again, you're not done right.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
No.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
But you started and it's going well so far.
It is, and I want to tap intosomething that you've mentioned
a couple of times, becausepeople may not know who we're
talking about.
You said Reba a couple of times.
Tell us about what's going onwith Reba McIntyre.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Well, her mother died , I believe, in 2020.
And I was out there visitingwith her and her sister believe
in 2020.
And I was out there visitingwith her and her sister and she
was talking about how she reallywanted to do a project that
would honor her mama and daddyand I said we have a plan.
People have been working onthis plan for 10 years, what
you've just described.
Well before I was here, wellbefore Danny was here, people
(10:30):
had been working on this andagain that was another.
It was a catalyst.
She was a major catalyst thatwhen we again that was another,
it was a catalyst.
She was a major catalyst thatwhen we threw her in the pot, it
just kind of bubbled over.
I said, would you listen to apitch?
And she said yes, becauseeverybody always goes to her and
says you need to do this andyou need to do that, and then
(10:57):
that's all they say.
So we went down to the Choctaws, used their conference center
and we did a full pitch.
It had a 3D walkthrough of whatthe building would look like
and a three-year pro forma.
We pulled out all the stops andso then she partnered with the
Choctaw Nation.
Unique situation for the firsttime ever, the Choctaw Nation
and a private entity went 50-50on a partnership and formed a
third entity, and so all thetaxes are paid on that business,
(11:20):
all the taxes are paid on thatbuilding and the property.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
And the building and the business that you're talking
about.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
clarify for people is so Reba's Place opened a year
ago, january so January 2023 iswhen it opened.
It is three stories, 15,000square feet.
It's the original Masonic Lodgethat we had and it's two floors
of restaurant and entertainmentvenue, a third floor with a
(11:47):
library and a private speakeasyroom that you can rent and
retail.
And the things that are insideit are just so unique the doors
above they used doors above thebooths and those were doors that
were in the building.
The bar is a hundred year oldbar that they found and
refinished.
The ropes as you walk in thedoor and there's ropes on the
(12:09):
wall that kind of make a wall.
Those are from all area ranches.
So there's a lot of just reallyneat stuff that's going into it
.
But the main thing, and the mainthing that she cared about, was
making it something for people,and we always say that Atoka is
the example of the economicmultiplier.
So the economic multiplier iswhen new payroll dollars, how
(12:32):
many times new payroll dollarsturn over in your community?
And Danny and I were sittingthere one day and a local
business owner came in and hesaid you know, I just had to
talk to you.
All you guys kept saying youknow, a rising tide raises all
this stuff.
He said I never believed it.
No way in the world would arestaurant downtown ever affect
my business.
(12:52):
And he said we always dieJanuary through March.
He said this year we didn'tslow down and it's because we
had 120 employees that had moneyto get things fixed.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
And so it just really folds over, and we anticipate
that first year's economicimpact to be over $20 million
from that restaurant alone.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Wow, you know there's other communities are probably
going to hear this and go well,we don't have a Reba McIntyre,
right, and that's a goodsituation, right.
But the lesson from that is notyou've got a celebrity that
wants to invest in yourcommunity.
You actually went with acreative pitch, partnered with
another entity, to makesomething happen had a location,
(13:39):
thought it through, through,had a plan right and we got.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
You know people say well, but you can't do that
again because you don't haveanother.
Even but we still had the10-year plan.
Yeah, it just got shortenedright exactly still we we're at
where we anticipated to be byyear six and we're year two, and
it's just.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Creativity is what it takes.
A little thought right.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
And Danny will attest you've got to have a thick skin
.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, we get hammered sometimes.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Danny being the city manager, let's talk about that.
So if people don't know whatthe city manager's role is, what
do you do here in Etoka, Danny?
Speaker 3 (14:14):
You name it, I do it.
I oversee everything.
It I oversee everything, andnot only economic development,
being involved with her on that.
But my goal is to improve theinfrastructure here, because, as
you probably are well aware,there probably ain't a town in
America that don't have oldinfrastructure that needs to be
(14:34):
replaced, yeah.
So I've been really hammeringon that, especially the last two
years.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Why is that?
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Just because you need to do it.
Yeah, it's just getting older,and if somebody don't do it,
who's going to do it?
Speaker 1 (14:52):
What I'm getting at is what I was hoping you were
saying is if you've got a 10year plan and it doesn't involve
infrastructure, you're going tobe in trouble year 10.
Oh yeah, you know, we wouldhave been in trouble year two if
they hadn't redone all thesewer and water downtown.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Yeah, we redid all that, like she said, at the same
time they were redoing thatbuilding.
I've been fortunate enough toapply for a lot of grants, like
she just said, and I've justrecently got a couple of large
ones from USDA that are going tohelp both water and wastewater,
and I've had some ODOT roadgrants and stuff like that.
So I'm just trying to hit itfrom every angle.
(15:20):
I mean roads, water, sewer.
I mean everything needs to beupdated.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Did you know about that world before you started as
a city manager?
Speaker 3 (15:28):
I pretty well did.
I was with the Department ofCorrections for 30 years.
I was a business manager therefor about 18.
And when you're a businessmanager at a prison, you're
basically a city manager of thatprison.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Right.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Because we have everything inside that prison,
basically that a city or a townhas.
We had our own sewer plant, wehad our own water plant, had our
own law enforcement, we had ourcorrectional officers.
So we had a little bit ofeverything.
I was well aware of all theinfrastructure up there that we
were constantly having to repairand fix and stuff, and being
here all my life, I know whathas and hasn't been done.
(16:04):
I mean you could drive aroundtown and tell there hasn't been
any new asphalt in years.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
I was going to say you might have created some of
those potholes over the years,so I've started probably
dragging the old, you know.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
So we've tried to prioritize and start hitting
some of the worst areas with.
It may just be a block or twoblock area, but you've got to
start somewhere.
So we've been gradually doingsome, doing some streets and
stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
The reason I was asking if you knew about that
world before you started as acity manager is I found that,
like you know, especially in alot of smaller communities,
that's just the person sometimesthat's willing to do the job,
and they may not know of all ofthe things that are available to
them as a resource.
And so I was curious if you did, and you've been doing it how
long now you say It'll?
Speaker 3 (16:51):
be four years in August.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
So what would you say as far as city management, what
advice could you give someonethat's in a small community that
may feel like they're a littlebit lost?
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Reach out and find out different people that you
can reach out to.
That's your valuable resourceto reach out, to get advice from
people.
That if you don't knowsomething, don't be afraid to
ask.
I learned, I still learnsomething all the time.
I don't know it all you know,but by making contacts you
gradually improve over time.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
What about you, carol , in your role, if someone
interested in economicdevelopment I mean, who isn't
right if they're in city work,right, but if someone was really
interested in it but they feltlike you know where would you
start?
Do I Google search some?
Speaker 1 (17:32):
things.
What do I do, you know?
Well, there are some greatorganizations.
I've been a member of CDFA it'sthe Council for Development of
Finance Agencies for years.
I got a lot of training, Ilearned a lot.
I managed a TIF district inBartlesville for six years and
that was an excellent learningsituation.
(17:54):
And, like Danny said, you'vegot to be involved outside of
your own world to be able tounderstand what all is going on,
who is being successful and whois not.
The fact that in southeastOklahoma we are in the Choctaw
Nation and I would put theireconomic development against any
economic development group inthe world a lot of these
(18:21):
communities that are too smallfor an economic development
director.
They will step in and they willrespond to RFPs, the request
for proposals, and present acommunity for a site you know,
and then they will actually goto the community and do the site
visit with the industry.
So that's great.
The Department of Commerce wehave there's regional reps from
the Department of Commerceeverywhere.
(18:41):
They are excellent.
When we have an industry thatwants to come in or somebody
that's just looking, they fillout one form.
We send it to Department ofCommerce and the Department of
Commerce goes through and findsout what incentives they're
available for.
They don't have to apply, theydon't have to fill out one for
(19:01):
this one and this one and thisone.
They fill out one form and dothat.
Know what zones you are in ornot in.
In southeast Oklahoma we're avery depressed economy and so we
are in pretty much everyfederal zone that all of these
industries are looking for.
(19:22):
We're in opportunity zone orAtoka is in an opportunity zone,
we're in a new market taxcredit zone, and the list just
goes on.
Pretty much anything that couldqualify, we can.
And then the quality jobsprogram that the state offers is
a huge help.
The small employer, qualityjobs.
On that you can qualify forthose benefits, which can be up
(19:46):
to five years of property taxabatement.
So things like that are veryimportant.
You know, if you've got a lotof city managers in the really
small communities are putting onall the hats.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
But it's knowing who you can get, because everybody
always says the incentives arethe icing on the cake.
But who wants a cake withouticing?
It's true.
And it's not the cake.
You still have to sell yourcommunity.
Somebody asked what my job?
What do you do?
And I said I sell thiscommunity all over the country,
and that's what you have to do.
(20:23):
You have to market yourself.
You've got to get peopleinvolved and you've got to give
the positive people a voice andhave a plan.
A plan is a plan, it's aguideline.
It's not okay.
Well, you didn't do this andyou said you were going to do
that.
Well, you're right, but thereason we didn't is because we
had to do this.
So you've got to be able to ebband flow, but you've got to
(20:44):
have an end goal, and the endgoal is to improve the quality
of life for the people who livehere and the people who want to
move here.
The main goal and our mayorsays it constantly the main goal
of the Industrial DevelopmentAuthority is so that we don't
export our best commodity, whichis our youth.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
When they, you know we want them to be able to get
an education and then live hereor go to a trade school and live
here and be able to afford ahouse and a family that they
don't have to move off to beable to afford that.
And that's what our goals areand we are slowly making that
progress.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
You know, Carol, you said something there that I
think we probably should diginto a little bit.
You said it brings the positivepeople to the top right.
It gives them a voice.
In your four or five years ofworking on Atoka, I'm sure you
ran into some hurdles, not onlywith people but also with some
red tape or whatever the casemay be.
Maybe some stuff went wrong.
What would you say?
Some of the stuff that you'vepicked up on, that you've
(21:40):
learned from, that would be.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
I would say our transparency.
We work very, very hard atbeing transparent.
What happens on that is the sublevel of people who are
positive.
They want to be involved, theywant to know what's going on and
they know.
Okay, just because somebodysaid something negative, now
they fight for us.
I mean six years ago I wouldget crucified on Facebook.
(22:05):
Now they fight for us.
I mean six years ago.
I would get crucified onFacebook.
And now, when I get crucifiedon Facebook, people fight for me
.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
I usually just keep responding until they quit
responding.
So I just out-respond them.
What do you mean?
Well, they say something, I'llreply back, and then they'll
reply back, and I'll keepreplying back, and I'll keep
answering their questions, andthen they finally just say I
ain't, I'm tired of dealing withhim and I just quit.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Danny's going to get the last word.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
When I feel strongly about something I'll, I'll go
toe to toe with you all day.
It don't matter to me.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
What have you felt strongly on, Like tell me, tell
me a couple of things so peoplecan learn from, from what you've
done?
Speaker 3 (22:39):
If they're, if they're running us down about
something we've done that theydon't understand anything about
it, and I'll explain.
This is why we did this.
At the end of the day, youchange a lot of opinions by just
being straightforward andhonest with them and tell them
and they're like well, I had noidea, well, you didn't ask or
you just assumed.
Don't always assume this,because that's not always going
(23:02):
to be true.
I think if you're justtransparent, like she said, and
open and try to explain things,I can explain things all day.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
So where are you guys at in the process?
Tell me where you're at as ofnow.
I know that's hard to quantify,but in your mind where are you
at with what your goal is forthe city?
70%, 60%.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
In a good place, in a bad place.
We're in a good place, but it'sbecause we've seen some really
great successes and we'restarting to see more.
I mean, once you get that ballrolling, it starts going.
We've got a new industry out atthe industrial park, that is,
they are excellent communitypartners.
We could not have landed themfour years ago.
We've got another industrycoming in and those industries
are the ones that are going topay that higher wage that will
(23:49):
get people into their own houses.
We've got NASA as a partner inour STEM program at our schools.
We've got a flight simulatorfrom Spartan School of
Aeronautics in our elementaryschool and that is in
conjunction with the drone.
We call it the drone ranch.
It's the drone testing centerthat Choctaws have.
(24:11):
It's 45,000 acres, so we havetechnology coming in here and
that's driving a lot of thesefuture workforce.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
I was listening but I heard drone ranch and I kind of
focused on that because I don'tknow what a drone ranch is, but
it sounds really cool.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
So several years ago and it was actually one of the
members of our team ClintHardison happened to be in a
room with NASA and all thesepeople and the problem was there
are air ambulances, there isdrone delivery, there's all of
these different things, but theycouldn't figure out how to put
them in the air at the same timewith commercial air lines.
(24:51):
So they said, well, what if thetribes assert their sovereignty
over the airspace?
And the FAA said oh, whoa, whoa, wait a minute.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Of course they did right.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
And so they awarded 10 sites a three-year program.
The Choctaw Nation beat out thestate of Texas and the state of
New York to be one of thosesites.
Out of the 10 sites, three ofthem failed, a fourth was on the
verge of failing and all theothers, added together, had
flown fewer missions and sharedfewer data than the Choctaw
(25:27):
Nation did on theirs.
It's a very diverse terrainwhere they've got it, and so at
the end of that three years,there were three programs that
they allowed.
They called it the BeyondProgram and the Choctaw Nation,
and two other programs were ableto just keep going, and so we
now have.
They're developing a dronedelivery corridor that will run
(25:49):
from McAllister to, I think,durant, and it goes over the
railroad tracks.
Using that right away, right,so you're not overpopulation.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Right.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
But what that has also led to is a lot of these
high tech companies like NASA,like Bell, to come here and
they're exposed to a token.
They fall in love with usbecause we are now a really fun
town.
We've got live music fournights a week and it's so much
fun.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
I'm going to ask you as a question.
I'm gonna give you a warning soyou can think about your answer
question.
I'm gonna give you a warning soyou can think about your answer
, but I'm going to ask youeventually what you think the
one thing would be that you havelearned, or that you would like
to share with other people whomay be in a position that you
guys were three, four, five, sixyears ago, right, um?
So I want you to know that.
I'm going to ask you that, butI want to talk to Danny for a
second.
Since you've been here yourentire life, danny, take me back
(26:42):
, um to when you were cruisingMaine.
What has changed in Atoka overthat time to today?
Like, what good have you seenthat you can identify?
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Well, I mean, when I was very young it was a very
vibrant town.
I mean, everybody came to townand all your parking spots were
full.
You had to walk places.
We had movie theaters in town,we had all the stores were full
and it was just a fun littleplace to be.
Didn't know much about thehighway, didn't get on it that
(27:14):
much, you know, went out to theDairy Queen every once in a
while.
Since then, stuff startedmoving out to the highway and
the downtown areas, you know,starts dwindling down as
businesses close and so you seeit go the other direction.
Well, now our goal was to tryto bring some of that back, and
that's what we've done, is bringsome of the downtown back to
(27:35):
life.
So I've seen it kind of go fromone extreme back up, so now
it's coming back.
So I've seen the best and worstand hopefully back to the best
again.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
I heard that you guys were showing a movie outside
tonight.
Is that correct?
Tomorrow night, tomorrow night,okay, I think that that really
kind of shows a couple of things.
One you've got the Rebus place,which has the investment and
all that the touristy kind ofthing, almost right.
But then you've also got whereyou're providing for the
community by showing a movieright, doing things that people
(28:07):
want to do in a downtown area.
It's in the green space rightover here, right, I mean, that's
on the backside of downtown.
It's a great spot.
So you got to have a little bitof both.
Right, you're bringing in somepeople from outside that see the
town, but you also and maybemore importantly, in a way, are
providing for your own communityright.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Well, that's our goal to make this a place that you
can.
You want to live, you want towork here and you want to play
here.
If you provide all that, thenyou have a happy place to be.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
OK, so now it's time to answer the question.
What's a piece of information,what's a piece of advice you
would give to someone who may bein a similar position to you
all in a similar kind ofcommunity?
What would you tell them?
Speaker 1 (28:51):
I would say don't underestimate the power of a
community meeting.
We had several getting gearedup for Rebus to open.
Two of those were labeled howto capitalize on this
opportunity.
Yeah, and it was great.
We got a lot of input.
(29:12):
Have a thick skin, but make surethat your, your core people,
are the core people.
The core people have the samegoal, which is to make life
better.
They might have different ideason what that means, but it's
important to make life better.
They might have different ideason what that means, but it's
important to make sure thatyou're not the only person doing
something.
(29:32):
I mean our council, our mayor.
We call on him all the time.
Brian Cathy is excellent athelping our town achieve great
things, and him and the rest ofthe council members have been
(29:53):
working on this for decades.
And being able to have thatcatalyst thrown in there to just
get them over that hump is allyou need.
Having that goal and makingsure it's the community's goal,
not the 20 angry people onFacebook.
Sure, it's the community's goal, not the 20 angry people on
Facebook.
You have to ignore the 20.
20 angry people on Facebookshould never be allowed to hold
a town hostage.
You should be able to representall the constituents of your
(30:15):
city.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
Yeah, I get messages all the time from people that
they want you to know thatthey're supporting you, but
they're the silent majority,right, you know.
But it helps just hearing frompeople want you to know that
they're supporting you, butthey're the silent majority,
right, you know.
Uh but uh.
But it helps just hearing frompeople knowing that you do have
support out there.
But to add on to what she said,I would say identify your
strengths and weaknesses andwhat your priorities are going
to be, and set goals for thoseand then just start gradually
(30:43):
achieving those goals.
Another thing that we'refortunate for is our highway
that runs through town.
It's what 30,000 vehicles a dayon average, so why not have
something to try to pull thosepeople in?
Spend some money while you'repassing through our town.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Yeah, there's a lot of communities that we work with
the Communities Unlimited thathave a similar situation.
They're off the highway maybe alittle bit, maybe not as close
as you all are, but they mightbe off the highway a little bit
and you have to get creativesometimes.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Of course with that comes some obstacles, because a
lot of times congestion andtraffic on the holidays and we
get jammed about that.
We don't control the highways.
That's ODOT.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Danny, you're the city manager, surely control
everything it's my, everything'smy fault.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
You think I got broad shoulders well.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
I want to, I guess, reiterate why we came here today
, and it's to hopefully be ableto use you guys and your efforts
so far as an example for othercommunities who work with.
It can be done.
It is being done, and I hopeyou guys are proud of what
you've done so far as an examplefor other communities who we
work with.
It can be done, it is beingdone and I hope you guys are
proud of what you've done so farand the whole group I know it's
not just you two, but the coregroup and everybody that you
work with as well, because wework with a lot of small
(31:55):
communities and not everyone isin this position.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
We're a team, and what makes us unique is we're
not afraid to pass the ball.
I can toss the ball over toDanny and say Danny, I need help
with this, and I don't have toworry about him hogging the ball
.
Afterwards He'll fix the issueand pass it back, and so it's
being able to pass that ballback and forth.
That really makes a difference.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Yeah, and I'd say just don't give up easy.
I mean, I apply for grants allthe time.
Do I get them all?
No, I don't, but I keepapplying.
The more you apply for, themore you're going to get.
So don't be afraid to jump inthere and just go for it.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
I think that's a really good spot to end on.
Just go for it, right.
Just go for it.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Jump in there and go for it.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
That's what I've done all my life.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Head first right Danny DeLay.
City manager Carol Irvin, youare the economic development
director.
I want to ask you guys as wellif somebody's hearing this and
they're like, hey, I need totalk to this person, is it okay
if somebody calls you up andsays, hey, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Absolutely.
We filled a lot of meetingswith other communities.
One of my favorite ones waswith the State Chamber of
Commerce.
We had a meeting with them andthey said how the heck are you
doing this in Atoka, Oklahoma?
And so we explained to themthis is how we started, this is
where we are at, this is how wedo this, but so many people tend
(33:16):
to be, we're a very smallcommunity.
We don't have the resources forsomebody to say, well, I'm just
gonna take my money and go formmy own organization.
We have to work together andthat is the biggest thing is
being able to combine.
You know, everybody has theirown niche that they are filling,
(33:38):
but they can still worktogether.
And that's the thing is beingable to get your different
organizations to communicate.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
But no, we were always open we filled a lot of
meetings with people and othercommunities.
Okay, if we can help peopleavoid some of the mistakes we've
made, that's a great thing.
Or if we can give them adviceon how to achieve some of their
goals, that's another greatthing, yeah thank you all for
your time.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Thanks for letting us come to your community and
check it out and learn from youas well.
I mean, I I always feel like Ilearned something as well
sitting across from people whoare doing so we're not.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
We're not where we want to be yet, but we're pretty
proud of what we got, so we'reglad you came down to see it
that's another episode of smalltalk, the community's unlimited
podcast.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Thank you very much, very much to Danny and Carol for
your insights and the city ofEtoka as well for the building
where we recorded the podcastand for all the transparency
with the process in Etoka thatyou have been working on.
On the next episode, we'regoing to talk to Michelle Mobs.
She's the owner of TrulyFavorite Bakery in downtown
Etoka to get her experience onthe downtown revitalization
efforts.
I hope to talk to you in acouple of weeks.
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