February 18, 2025 • 41 mins
Join us on a captivating journey with Andy McCarthy, the visionary founder of Gippsland Solar, who shares his extraordinary tale of building a solar empire in the heart of Australia's coal country. Discover how Andy overcame not only industry resistance but also personal demons of entrepreneurial addiction, leading to a transformative journey of self-awareness and reinvention. Through his candid reflections, Andy reveals the high stakes of relentless ambition and the profound impact it can have on personal satisfaction and relationships.
Dive into the essence of what makes a sustainable and inspiring organisational culture, as Andy opens up about the power of personal growth and leadership development. Learn how integrating a life coach into his life during turbulent times became a game-changer, enhancing productivity and well-being. This episode is a masterclass for founders, offering insights into avoiding burnout, the importance of supportive networks, and the art of balancing hustle with a rewarding life. Andy’s experiences with team integration at East Gippsland Solar underscore the significance of creating a thriving organisational culture that empowers and unites.
Explore the nuanced challenges of leadership as we dissect the intersection of ego and empathy in guiding a team towards shared goals. Andy shares his wisdom on maintaining humility, fostering honest communication, and the crucial role of self-awareness in achieving true leadership success. As the world adapts to flexible work models, discover how leading with empathy and balancing personal well-being can redefine success. This episode concludes with Andy’s reflection on legacy and purpose, offering a poignant reminder that success need not come at the cost of well-being.
Buy Here Comes the Sun, Andy's book here - https://andymccarthy.com.au/#here-comes-the-sun
Connect with Andy on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/andy-j-mccarthy/
Learn more about Nicky and Ness https://businesstogether.com.au
Buy a copy of Healthy Hustle: The New Blueprint to Thrive in Business & Life www.healthyhustle.com.au
Follow us on socials
Instagram - @b2businesstogether
Facebook - @B2BusinessTogether
Connect on LinkedIn
Nicky LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/connectwithnicky/
Ness LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/vanessamedling/
Give us a call
Nicky Miklos-Woodley 0403 191 404
Vanessa (Ness) Medling 0400 226 875
Or send us an email hello@businesstogether.com.au
Music by Jules Miklos-Woodley
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Nicky (00:04):
Welcome to the Smart Business Growth Podcast with
Nicky and Ness.
Ness (00:11):
We would like to acknowledge the traditional
custodians of country, theTurrbal and Bunurong people of
Brisbane and Melbournerespectively, where Nicky and I
both work and live both work andlive.
(00:32):
We are thrilled to have AndyMcCarthy as our first guest of
this series of the podcast.
He's an entrepreneur, an author, a mentor and a passionate
lover of life.
After overcoming a deeplytroubled childhood, andy moved
to the brown coal dominatedregion of the Latrobe Valley in
2010, and, of all things,decided to start a solar energy
business.
After overcoming years ofresistance, ridicule and
self-doubt, andy establishedGippsland Solar as one of
(00:55):
Australia's largest employers inthe renewable energy sector and
became known across the globeas the face of energy transition
in coal country.
In late 2019, gippsland Solarwas acquired by RACV.
Andy stayed on as CEO andManaging Director of RACV Solar
for three years before taking asix-month sabbatical and
(01:16):
spending time traveling abroadwith his wife, kelly, and three
young boys.
Andy's now returned to theworkforce, where his story of
soaring highs and crashing lowshas been captured in a highly
successful memoir entitled hereComes the Sun.
Andy's now a business coach,consultant to government and
industry and mentor to foundersand startups from across the
(01:36):
globe.
He sits on a number of boardsand advisory groups and is the
president of his local footballnetball club and junior footy
and cricket coach in his sparetime of his local football
netball club and junior footyand cricket coach in his spare
time.
We talked a lot about what Andywrote about in his book and I
highly recommend you get yourhands on a copy of it.
I listened to the audio, whichis Andy talking at reading the
book and Nicky picked up theactual hard copy.
(01:57):
So whichever way you prefer todo your reading, we can't
recommend highly enoughlistening to Andy's story.
There are so many valuabletakeaways and we're really
grateful that he gets to sharesome of those with us today.
So, without further ado, let'shead over and listen to the full
conversation.
Andy, when I was readingthrough your book here Comes the
(02:18):
Sun, there were so many timesthat Nicky's holding it up.
For those who aren't looking atthe video, I listen to the
audio, so I can't hold up myhard copy.
But one of the themes that camethrough quite a lot during the
book, through all of yourdifferent experiences in growing
a business and then, of course,in the acquisition, when you
(02:38):
were working around you know, inthe corporate space One of the
things that stood out to me waswe talk in our book Healthy
Hustle about entrepreneurialaddiction and what we find is
there can be such a pull towardsbeing the most important person
in the business, having thebusiness be all consuming.
You know, some of the keypoints around entrepreneurial
(03:00):
addiction are obsessive thoughts, so where you can't stop
thinking about it, thatwithdrawal when perhaps the
project's just been finished ora big sale's gone through.
It's almost like thatdepression or that slip back
some self-worth issues around,never really acknowledging
success.
And I think I remember yousaying that was a key thing,
(03:22):
that perhaps you just went.
What's the next thing?
What's the next thing?
What's the next thing?
An increase in tolerance against, you know, with perhaps the
working, the long hours, lack ofsleep, all of those kinds of
things, neglecting health,neglecting family, and then, you
know, continuing to push, eventhough you are experiencing
negative outcome from all ofthat.
(03:42):
So I'm curious to know withinthat, were you aware, whilst you
were experiencing all this, orwas it in the reflection of
writing the story, writing thebook, that it came perhaps more
clearer to you about how muchthat connection through to the
business was impacting your life?
Andy (04:01):
Well, I think for someone with ADHD or someone that's
neurodivergent.
I think I have a naturaltendency towards obsessive,
compulsive kind of behaviors.
I get very addicted tosomething and I go down a rabbit
hole and I'm just I will notrest until I've achieved
whatever it is I need to achieveand I'm sure a lot of your
listeners can relate to thatfeeling.
It's very satisfying, verystimulating at the time, but
(04:23):
that feeling of satisfaction itjust doesn't last.
It's fleeting and it's gone.
And the one thing I did realizeafter we actually sold our
business to RACV was that Ihadn't really ever experienced
any genuine moments ofsatisfaction over the 13 years
Like if you look at the historyof Gippsland Solar from the
spare garage in our little towncalled Merbu North in the hills
of Gippsland to having two or300 staff across the country,
(04:46):
having acquired other businesses, having toured the world and
done a lot of speaking andpresentations and things like
that I can't think of a timewhere I felt genuinely satisfied
because I was just constantlylooking for the next thing and I
wasn't even able to reflect andenjoy it that night I was just
hustling again.
I was back onto it.
What's next?
There's a few reasons why that'sa really bad idea.
(05:07):
Firstly, everything else comessecond to your pursuit of
business success and, like a lotof entrepreneurs, I tried to
sell myself some sort of a falsedream that I was doing this to
provide for my family or somesort of selfless pursuit to
support them, which is rubbish.
I was doing it because Ienjoyed it and it fed my ego at
times as well, I think, to behonest.
(05:27):
But further to that, it'sunsustainable for those around
you who don't share thatrelentless appetite for hustle,
and you burn people out.
You lose good people along theway.
You become a terrible husbandand father, as I did through
various times in our journey.
So I'm very proud of what weachieved on paper, but I'm
unfortunately had to learn thehard way, through almost a
(05:48):
complete mental and physicalbreakdown in early 2018, that it
wasn't sustainable and thenmake some changes to get that
healthy hustle back into my life, as you would say.
Fortunately, it wasn't too late.
I'm now still happily marriedand think I'm a good father.
I'm highly engaged in mychildren's lives, so maybe I'm
one of those people who learnedthe lesson before it became too
late, but I definitely paid alot of heavy prices for the
(06:12):
success we enjoyed.
There's no doubt.
Ness (06:18):
And do you think, then, that you know, as you move
forward into whatever comes next, you know now or into the
future, those lessons thatyou've learned, that you would
do things differently the nexttime around?
Andy (06:25):
There's no doubt, yeah, I'm a completely changed my own
DNA, I think, over the last fewyears and again, like many of my
lessons along our journey, Ilearned them the hard way.
I had some really awful momentsand you know I don't want to
spoil too much of the book forthe listeners who might go out
there and read it or listen toit but was moments where I was
running around the Mervyn Northgolf course at two o'clock in
(06:47):
the morning in the middle ofwinter, just bursting into tears
.
My heart was just pumping in mychest and I just collapsed in
the heap and just completelyfell apart.
I was on the phone to be onblue two or three times in some
nights just trying to help meget through to the morning
because I hadn't had a goodnight's sleep in months.
And then the funny you have amessage on LinkedIn from a
competitor.
(07:08):
That's like I can't believe thesuccess you guys have enjoyed.
It must be incredible.
I'm so envious of everythingyou guys have achieved.
I'm like well, really, becausemy life is actually a bin fire
right now and that's why Idecided to write the book.
What's it All?
I wanted people to know whathappens behind the veil
sometimes, you know, when youachieve great things, especially
in a short period of time,there's almost always a cost
(07:28):
that people need to be aware of.
Nicky (07:29):
And that's what we talk about a lot is that this version
of success has become toocostly.
And even reading your book andI highly recommend for everybody
who's listening and watching tograb a copy.
It's very entertaining, veryfunny, it's really interesting
and there's a lot of really key,important business and life
lessons and messages within thatand this piece around.
(07:50):
When you talked about, on theoutside it looked like
everything was brilliant, wasgreat, like everything you'd
worked towards, yet on theinside it felt so different.
And you know you talk aboutbeing neurodivergent and there
is, I guess, a DNA in that aswell the hustle, and people will
hustle in different ways.
So I'd love to know how haveyou actually created the change
(08:12):
that perhaps you wish you hadcreated earlier in the day, or
how do you do that?
For those that are listening,they might be like yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, but I'm here, thisis just where I'm at.
What are the things that youdid to now live so, so, so
differently?
Andy (08:27):
Well, I think for me, bringing in a life coach at that
time, when my life hadcompletely fallen apart, made a
huge difference.
And if people are in thisposition where they can afford
to do that or they have the timeor money to do so, then I would
highly recommend it because itwas the best investment I ever
made was that investment in myown health and wellbeing, and
I've learned some really goodlessons about just how to bring
discipline into my life and toacknowledge the kind of person I
(08:49):
am and to not give myself thatlatitude sometimes to go and
just be obsessed for longperiods of time without a break.
So I would bring structure intomy calendar.
I probably halve the amount ofmeetings I have in each week and
I would allow large gaps inbetween meetings to reflect on
the meeting I just had or theinteraction to think about and
prepare for the upcoming one,just to go for a walk and just
(09:12):
to think and to be and to justlet everything just kind of
absorb in my mind.
Because if I don't do that, I'mrunning and doing everything at
a great rate of knots and I'mfocusing on quantity not quality
.
So I've found that that'sactually addictive in itself.
When you find that beautifulbalance in your life where
you're doing everything reallywell at a high level and you're
super engaged, you actually getbetter work done and you're
(09:35):
happier and you're a betterspouse and parent, a better
friend, and you lead a moresustainable lifestyle as well.
So I highly recommend it.
Nicky (09:46):
There's that tipping point.
Isn't there around realizingthat actually the hustle, the
way that I hustled to this point, to get to the level of success
that I have, I need to find adifferent way to hustle, and a
key message here as well is thatit's not about not hustling
anymore.
It's about doing it in a waythat is fulfilling for us,
holistically sustainable andhealthy, and that impact on the
(10:06):
people around us.
Andy (10:08):
Yeah, and I think, especially for founders.
I mean, I share two commontraits with many other founders
that I a hopeless micromanagerback in the early days and that
I want to be involved ineverything, every decision.
I want to understand everything.
At the start, I wanted to bethe person who answered the
1-300 number and I wanted toinstall the system and follow up
with the customer and managethe entire customer experience
(10:28):
from end to end, because I knewthat I had control over their
entire experience.
It achieves your short-termgoals, but it's not sustainable.
And I think most founders gothrough that stage where they
have to learn to let go and torealize I don't need to be in
every meeting and be part ofevery decision, firstly because
it's not sustainable for my ownenergy levels and, secondly, my
team is never going to grow andspread their wings and develop.
(10:49):
So the happy byproduct of mefalling apart and my life
becoming a train wreck is that Icouldn't physically come into
work for six months.
I would sit in meetings and Ihad sweat patches start pouring
through on my shirt and Istarted feeling physically ill
and I had to go back home andcrawl into bed and change the
sheets when I woke up becauseI'd sweated out all of my
stresses for hours, so that sixmonths I couldn't work.
(11:11):
My team just rose to theoccasion and they really enjoyed
that freedom to make decisionsand to just run things past me,
but to be able to execute, andthey became great leaders in
their own right.
So it's not the way I'drecommend everyone go about
learning.
Nicky (11:24):
No, which is why we're having this conversation,
because how do we get through topeople earlier?
Because there is that feelingshe'll be right.
Nah, more good, like not evenseeing and realising or owning
or realising that there's aproblem.
Andy (11:37):
Well, for me, I would say you need to connect with
like-minded people.
You know the old saying thatyour network is your net worth.
The most valuable part of havinga good network is when you feel
that loneliness at the top thata lot of people do experience
as their business grows and theycan't confide in their staff
about what they're dealing with.
It's not always considered to behelpful or great leadership to
be that vulnerable with yourteam as you're growing a
(11:58):
business.
Sometimes you don't want tobring that home to your wife or
husband or dump your stressesonto them.
You need to find the outlet tobe able to share your concerns
whether it's joining a youngprofessionals organization or
some sort of a like-mindednetwork of people who are
dealing with similar challengesand almost use it as a form of
counseling and being able tojust download some of that
stress to someone who genuinelyunderstands what you're going
(12:19):
through.
It allows you to preserve thebest of yourself for your staff,
for your family, for yourfriends and to lead a more
balanced lifestyle.
So I highly recommend reachingout to people even if they're
not in your industry, justpeople that have dealt with
similar challenges, and usuallyyou find that you help each
other.
Ness (12:34):
Yeah, that's so important, isn't it?
It's just what we can help otherpeople if we're further ahead
on the journey or if weexperience something that is
life-changing is to really justshow them the way forward and to
be able to help them to notexperience what we've gone
through.
(12:55):
I'm really curious to understanda little bit more around.
You were talking like,especially in the early days
around micromanaging, and youknow, one of the things that
came through in the book wasyou're really proud of the
culture that grew in EastGippsland Solar and then, when
RSCV Solar took over, that youwere able to go through this
amalgamation and bring in allthese different people, and the
(13:17):
culture still remained reallystrong because there was a big
focus on that.
So what was it then that, ifyou were so wanting to be
involved in that, how did yourleaders become part of this
impressive culture thatobviously they then shared and
became a part of with their team?
So what do you think the thingwas there?
(13:38):
Was it something around whatyou did, what you said, or was
it more around the collectivethat created that culture?
Andy (13:45):
Well, I have a lot of shortcomings as a leader and I
don't really have anyqualifications or skills in a
lot of areas.
One thing I'm really passionateabout, and hopefully I was
really good at, was just almostlike seeing myself as a CEO, as
being the chief enthusiasmofficer, like just selling that
dream and saying we are changingthe world, we are slinging
sunshine every day.
We're giving the gift ofrenewable energy to all these
(14:05):
people and reducing theirelectricity bills for 20 years
into the future.
We're building a big businessthat employs people, that
reinvests in the community, thatmakes money and is also
providing a positive effect onthe future of our planet for the
next generation.
So it's just that every day youcome in and going guys, I know
it's hard, but just remember,this is what we're doing, this
(14:27):
is the purpose that we're on,and many people in other jobs
and other industries would loveto have the kind of purpose and
mission that we have.
It's just, day after day, justdrumming it into people,
reminding them of the biggerpicture, and they go.
It is pretty cool actually whatwe're doing.
Yeah, yeah, it's a wonderfuljourney.
We're part of this revolutionwhich is changing the world, and
make no bones about the fact,or have no shame in the fact,
(14:49):
that we are building a businessthat makes money and creates
fantastic employment outcomesfor people, and you know we've
enjoyed financial success, butnot at the expense of the planet
.
So I think inspiring the teamand getting them to buy into the
vision was really helpful andteaching them the gift of giving
to others and paying thatforward as well.
So not micromanaging their ownteams and learning to step back
(15:10):
and teaching them to fish ratherthan buying them a fish.
It's almost like a contagiouseffect that just spreads through
the organization, where peopletake more joy out of empowering
someone and watching them go onto get credit for doing
something amazing than doing itthemselves.
I preface it by saying that Ilearned that lesson the hard way
.
Like I said, I was a terriblemicromanager, particularly for
the first five years, but once Ihad a taste of sitting back and
(15:32):
giving someone the tools andwatching them go and flourish
and getting no credit for whatthey'd actually achieved
themselves, I learned to find ajoy in that.
That became incrediblyintoxicating and I think that
spreads through the organization, where people take more joy in
the achievements of others thangetting credit for it themselves
.
Ness (15:47):
Yeah, so you're all on the same page about why we do what
we do.
And then you know and I think Iremember reading in the book as
well around the vision, gettingthe vision and the values and,
you know, really bringing peopleon board so that they
understand what we stand for.
Andy (16:03):
And also we're really big on promoting the achievements of
others in the organisation.
We would have internal awardswhere someone would nominate
someone else for an incredibleact of selflessness or something
that met the company values.
And I think one thing that alot of businesses do really
poorly which I think we'rereally good at as we grew was
celebrating the quiet achieversin the business.
Every business has those peoplewho don't self-promote.
(16:24):
They're not constantly brownnosing or being a sycophant to
the boss, they just get theirjob done to a high level every
day, and everybody that ever runa business would be able to
identify who those people are intheir own business.
One of my messages is liftthose people up and celebrate
them.
So you're not just celebratingself-promotion, but you're
celebrating people that areexceptional in what they do,
that really care about their job, because they get forgotten in
(16:45):
businesses as you growparticularly.
Nicky (16:47):
That's so true and it's so easy then to put your
attention to the loudest personin the room as an example.
But taking that more expandedview and I've got so many notes
throughout my book, you know, soI know as an author that's a
good feeling and even I'vewritten down here, like talking
through this values, managingenergy and North Star.
They seem to be a really goodtrio mix of what helped you move
(17:11):
through to eventually continueand to be where you are today in
terms of your success.
Andy (17:16):
Yeah, I think so, and I think the ultimate test of that
was when you take a businessthat started in the garage of
your family home and after 10years you sell it to RACV, a
multi-billion dollar insuranceconglomerate Very different
values, to be honest, than thoseof Gippsland Solar, Our staff.
Christmas parties used to bejust a bathtub full of beers and
ice in my shed and I wasturning the snags, and they were
(17:41):
great nights.
Nicky (17:41):
I really miss them.
I did feel nostalgic actuallyreading a lot of the book, like
the traveling.
We're the same age, so I'm like, oh my gosh, yeah, I remember
back in the 2000s, but anyway,yep.
Andy (17:50):
Yeah, it's a nice part of the journey to reflect on.
Sometimes I think we forget howhard those times were and we
look at the it's like looking atthe photos from your holiday
you think, oh, that was a greattrip and you're like, actually,
the kids walked the whole way,yeah.
But then being thrust into thatcorporate world when I had no
experience in corporate worldand I had no desire to get into
it at all and bringing a team ofmaybe had about 100 staff at
(18:13):
that stage.
There's a lot of lessons inthat, but a strong foundational
base of values and North Starand alignment is obviously
critical.
But you're always going to betested really, really strongly
in terms of bringing your teaminto a new environment, selling
them a new dream.
You can imagine when I stoodthere and said to my team this
is a great day for our businessand they go well, you've just
(18:34):
had a payday, so, of course,you'd pay that.
So you've got to also treat themwith respect and acknowledge
that it's.
You know it's great for you moreso than them in a lot of ways.
But I think learning how tounite in public but then debate
in private you know, once we'dsold the business was really
cool.
I know my chair, nicole fromRACV, listens to some of my
podcasts and she would heard mesay in the past that we had some
(18:56):
very, very strict, sternconversations, I would say, and
we fought some serious battlesbehind closed doors, but we
always proverbially held handsand walked out together and said
this is where we're going,because she understood how
important my team was to me.
But I also understood that if Iwasn't completely aligned to
this new mission and these newvalues as an RECV company, that
my team would pick up on thatand that would just spread
(19:17):
through the entire organizationand undermine all the work we're
trying to do.
So yeah, it's hard sometimesand I'm sure anyone in a middle
management or in a corporaterole would have appreciated this
over the years that sometimesyou just have to be strong with
what you believe in.
But once you've decided on thedirection, you just have to be
all in together and completelyaligned with your messaging,
otherwise it all falls apartquickly.
Ness (19:36):
Absolutely.
I remember learning that lessonwhen I was leading back in the
day when I was in the Centrelinkworld, and learning that from a
leader above me who just openlyadmitted that she did it really
badly one day and she justrealized that she just
undermined everything andactually it was terrible for the
team because it just createdthis them versus us kind of
(19:59):
experience and that is not.
That just shifts the attentionfrom the focus that you want it
to be on about the cultureyou're building and the reason
why you're here.
So such an important lesson.
Andy (20:11):
You'll always have to.
In that situation I was in,you're always going to have to
sell a message to your team thatyou don't wholeheartedly
believe in.
That is just the way of theworld, that's the way of
business, that's the way ofpolitics, of everything, and I
struggled to come to terms withthat because I thought I was
maybe selling my values up theriver in some ways.
But ultimately it's just aboutfighting the battles that you
truly believe in and acceptingthat sometimes you have to just
(20:32):
grow up, and if you want to sellyour business, you can't keep
control.
You can do one, but it alsocomes to the other, and so that
growing up process for me wasprobably the greatest learning
experience of my professionallife, because I'd be selling a
vision to my team, saying here'swhat we're doing, and they're
looking at me going.
This is not you, andy, this isnot what you believe in or what
(20:53):
you would have done.
I was like this is the worldthat we live in and this is
where we're going, and I supportthe new direction, and you're
going to have to come and lockin behind me, because this is
where we're going, whether youlike it or not.
Nicky (20:59):
I think that's a really important reminder for all
levels of leadership as well,because as we progress in
leadership sorry, if we've inleadership it is that beautiful
balance of knowing when andwhere to have your unedited
conversation and who you'rehaving that with, and the
opportunity to share your voiceand go into battle and go into
fight.
(21:19):
And then, equally, how do weagain have that unified front?
And if it really is amisalignment, then it's a bigger
question really, at the end ofthe day around, is this actually
right for me?
But it's just, it is thereality of leadership.
Andy (21:31):
Yeah Well, it's no different to any relationship or
marriage or anything.
It's about picking your battles.
Nicky (21:37):
Yes, true, negotiating, where you can, you win some, you
don't win others.
Andy (21:42):
And sometimes being right doesn't help.
Nicky (21:43):
Sometimes it actually makes it worse, yeah that's true
, and exactly, and just let itgo, even if we are right, just
let it go, and exactly and justlet it go, even if we are right.
Ness (21:50):
Just let it go.
Have you heard?
Our book Healthy Hustle, theNew Blueprint to Thriving
Business and Life, is availableright now to purchase.
In Healthy Hustle, we take youthrough real-world, practical
and achievable steps to move youaway from unhealthy hustle to a
place of happiness and living,whilst continuing to achieve
(22:14):
incredible business results.
Nicky (22:18):
I would love a little bit of insight which feeds into
this as well, particularlyaround when you were talking
about letting your team win andget the results, and then you
get this sense of pride aroundthat, and you do have a chapter
in your book and it's all aroundpride versus ego.
Would you be able to give us alittle snippet of what this
definition is for you and how itplays out?
Andy (22:37):
Yeah, as I alluded to in the book, I think that pride can
be really helpful sometimes.
Being proud of your business,being proud of who you are,
being proud of your success, canbe a very healthy thing and
cause you to achieve incrediblethings in business and in life
can be a very healthy thing andcause you to achieve incredible
things in business and in life.
But I think the point where itbecomes ego, where it becomes
(22:58):
pointless pride, was reallywhere I had to try and find that
line and I stepped over it timeand time and time again.
So I only speak as someone whomade, again, a lot of mistakes
along the way.
But sometimes, when you'refighting a fight or you're
engaged in competitive tensionwith another business or doing
something in business thatstimulates an emotional response
, I just learned to sort ofpause and go.
Why am I actually responding tothis?
Is it actually going to achieveanything or is it just here?
(23:21):
Is it just to serve my ego?
It's not always easy to workout the right answer there
sometimes and those two, prideand ego, do kind of overlap with
each other.
But there was a lot of thingsthat I did in business that in
hindsight were really justpointless pursuits to either
refuel my ego or to respond tosomething that emotionally
(23:42):
provoked me, but there wasnothing to gain.
Sometimes you just have to sitback and let someone have a
victory because ultimately it'sjust not worth it.
And a lot of that really onlycomes with time or experience,
or maybe making those mistakesand learning the hard way, and I
(24:02):
was fortunate to have someguiding hands on my shoulder
over the years of people thatkept me in check, even some of
my team that I came out of ameeting one time and I thought
that I'd really nailed thisaddress to my team, and then one
of my general managers calledme and said you sounded a bit up
yourself today.
I said, really, he goes.
Yeah, yeah, you did, and Ireckon there was a few looks in
the room that probably told meother people felt the same way
and I said why don't people tellme these things anymore?
(24:25):
And he said because they'reintimidated by you.
That was a moment that hit mebetween the eyes, because
they're intimidated by you.
That was a moment that hit mebetween the eyes because, for
someone who's worked in thegarage starting their business
and worked till midnight, got onthe roof and taken the skin off
their nails laying their ownsolar panels back in the early
days.
You can't see a time where you'dbe perceived to be so
successful that you intimidatepeople.
It just didn't even occur to methat I'd be intimidating.
(24:45):
I wanted to be approachable andI thought that I was, and at
some point people were tooscared to give me honest
feedback because they wereintimidated, which was an awful
feeling.
But that again becomes, I think, your ego getting in the way.
That you need to be humble andvulnerable enough with your team
that they feel they can giveyou this feedback, and my team
knew when I asked for feedback.
I want feedback.
(25:06):
I don't want platitudes oranything.
I want to be told exactly whatI can do to improve as a leader,
and you know you're not goingto upset me or offend me.
I need this feedback, otherwiseI'm not going to be able to
continue on my own growthjourney.
Nicky (25:21):
I think what's important in that is it's how you respond
to it, isn't it?
Because I've seen this beforewith you know, I worked with a
GM who had an open door policy.
It open door policy.
It's like why aren't peoplecoming in?
Two hours a month, 15 minutemeetings, book in, you can talk
to me about anything, and theslots weren't being taken up.
Why?
Why?
Why it's about what we say, butthen it's just purely because
of title, right, Like there'sthat intimidation piece.
(25:42):
But I don't know, do you thinkthat that ever really goes away?
Because there is a status and ahierarchy, even if you, as a
good human, don't want there tobe.
Andy (25:48):
I think you can always try to lessen the impact, while
acknowledging that will alwaysbe an issue, Like if you think
about yourself coming into anorganisation, maybe at the fifth
level of an organisation, youwouldn't even after a couple of
years, potentially, you wouldn'tgo to the CEO and say exactly
how you feel about something orgive them any feedback.
You just wouldn't do it.
So it's not realistic to thinkthat everyone will do that, but
(26:11):
you do need to do as much as youcan to create the vulnerable
leadership.
I think that I was really bigon oh you know, I would bring
members of my team after I had abad day, I made a bad decision.
I'd ring one of my team and sayI could have handled that a lot
better, couldn't I?
And they say yeah, probably,and then we just workshop it.
It's the same with your, yourchildren, just admitting that
you know, mum and dad have flaws.
(26:31):
We make mistakes.
We're more mature than you guysare, but we're still human and
we still make mistakes, and Ithink humanising your
shortcomings and your mistakesthat you make creates a really
safe place for everyone else tostart to open up as well and
also to give you that two-wayfeedback.
That's really important.
And the other thing I found isin an RACV world where I was so
busy all the time I had so muchto do there was two or three
(26:54):
days a week.
Thankfully during COVID I didn'thave to come in the office five
days.
But I try to use that timereally effectively and say when
I am busy and when I've got alot of pressure I'm not coming
into the office, Because thelast thing you want to do,
especially in an open plan kindof environment, is to be sitting
there with steam coming out ofyour ears or just stressed and
looking unapproachable.
So I would do all of my work athome and hustle really hard at
(27:16):
home to get on top of everything.
And when I didn't have much onmy plate then I would go into
the office and I would just goseat by seat, sit down, have a
chat with people.
What are you working on?
I saw that project you guysdelivered.
The customer said you knockedout of the park.
I'm really really proud ofeveryone you know just going
person by person and just havingthat conversation to get to
understand what's happening intheir world and just humanising
your role so they don't see youas some figurehead, but actually
(27:39):
is just another member of theteam who wants the same things
that they do.
Ness (27:42):
There's a lot in that, because I think there's the
ability to be able to carve outthe time, because so many
leaders that we talk to,particularly in corporate space,
talk about the fact that theyjust they're so time poor, they
have so many demands on them andthat the coaching or the
conversations that they havehave to take a back seat because
(28:04):
we've just got so many otherthings that we have to focus on.
And yet it's just like so Idon't know.
It's so triggering for me,because I know that it's those
one-on-one conversations you'rehaving with your team.
To really find out wherethey're at, or to give them that
feedback and hear the goodthings as well as the critiques,
is vital, because people needto feel a sense of belonging,
(28:25):
they need to feel like they'remaking a difference.
They need to.
I mean, they want to beacknowledged.
They want to be even the quietones but in their way right To
be able to say, hey, great job,and this is why it's a great job
.
So I think that you know thatself-awareness around who am I,
how do I work best, and probablythrough learning, and also you
(28:48):
know what it is that you knowabout yourself.
I would imagine the did theADHD diagnosis come later in
life or earlier in life?
Andy (28:55):
No, no, it was pretty clear to everyone when I was 10
or 11 years old.
Right, okay, there's somethinggoing on there.
Ness (29:00):
That was something, and I ask that question because
Nicky's only just had thathappen for her in the last
couple of years, so that's meantsome great conversations
between us.
Andy (29:10):
It all makes sense now, doesn't it, Nicky?
Ness (29:12):
Ah, I see.
Andy (29:14):
That's why I do those things.
Ness (29:16):
Absolutely so, because we are so big on healthy hustle in
our business that we holdourselves accountable to that
and each other.
And I think what?
Initially I'd be going Nicky,why are you working so late?
You know that's not what we do,and blah, blah, blah.
But now it's around when shegets that laser focus and can
smash out all this particularlycreative work.
(29:36):
It's got to be when she's gotthe energy and the focus for
that.
And then the question thenbecomes not about reprimand, not
that I'd reprimand- her butyou're so bad, but it would be
not around you.
You know what are you doing?
Working so late.
It's like when are you going totake some equivalent time off
just to recharge those batteries?
Because if you go, go, go, go,go at that pace, it's great,
(29:58):
because you smash out a heap ofwork in that week but then you
fall in a heap the next week yep, I agree and I I think there's
been a really unhealthy focus onleaders that want to be seen to
be the first in the office andthe last to leave.
Andy (30:10):
I know every leader is different in their own style,
but I just don't understand it.
My job is not to be the onethat is there for the longest
hours.
It's the one that sets thevision and the direction, and
when I am there, I'm highlyengaged in the team.
I'm really invested in whatwe're all doing together.
But they don't need to see youthere for hour after hour
(30:30):
grinding away on a computer.
I don't think it achievesanything and I just don't think
any leaders that I've reallyworked with honestly spend
enough time of their 100 pointsof energy on focusing on their
team and spending time just withtheir team, even with nothing
on the agenda, just spendingtime with them, understanding
them as employees, understandingthem as people, getting to work
(30:55):
out how to get the best out ofthem.
Even some of the performancereviews where I'm saying I want
to come in, I want to be a partof this myself, because I want
to say to the person that we'rereviewing, or performance
monitoring, is how can we helpyou to help us.
What can we do in this business?
There has to be something thatwe can do to help get the best
out of you, because at themoment, to me you don't seem
happy, and if you're not happy,you're probably not performing
to the highest possiblestandards.
(31:15):
So tell me, what can I do andwhat can I change in this
business to help create a betterenvironment, to help get the
best out of you?
And when they see the CEO ofthe organization super invested
and asking them for thatfeedback directly, I think it's
very empowering and it makespeople realise they have a lot
of agency in their role andmakes them take their job more
seriously as well sometimes.
Ness (31:35):
Absolutely.
And if you set that tone fromtop, then you have the
opportunity for the leaders inthe next level down to be able
to learn from that and to beable to apply that to their own
leadership skills, you know, sothat they also then go.
Actually, this is reallyvitally important in this
business that people matter.
And I might be great at thetechnical things and I might be,
(31:58):
you know, a superpower if I canshut the office door and
everybody leave me alone, but ifI'm a leader in a business, I'm
actually here to lead people.
Andy (32:06):
Yep, that's exactly what the core focus should be leading
people, showing them thatyou're all on this journey
together and a lot of the thingsthat happen behind the scenes
are not as important to them aswhether you really care about
them and understand them aspeople.
Nicky (32:18):
So what I really also love about this is, in order to
be able to have the time to bewith people and to do that
one-on-one, we've got to haveour house in order get on the
balcony of the business.
You know a lot of the thingsthat we talk around about people
, performance principles, sofocusing on culture, operating,
rhythms, skills when we get to aplace of time freedom.
(32:38):
The ultimate definition of thatis choice with our time.
So I think this is a great callto arms for every business
owner, founder, listener, ceo,leader that's listening and
watching to say, well, how can Iget to that place of time
freedom?
So the goal is that I spendmore time with people, rather
than the time versus outcome.
(33:00):
Oh, time, that whole morning,first thing in the morning, last
person out at night that isjust so old school now, come on,
come on, there's a different,better way here.
Right, if you're still doingthat, it is time to find a
different, better way, likewe've got examples here.
So, yeah, very, very cool, andI'd love to know before I hand
back over to Ness for our wrapup question these days, right
(33:22):
here, right now, 2025, you'vewritten a book, you've done
incredible things andcongratulations on your journey.
All of it, the ups, the downs.
To be here today with us havingthis conversation is very
inspiring.
So you know, congratulations onall of that.
What does healthy hustle meanto you today?
Andy (33:38):
Well, I'm at a stage in life where I want to be able to
work if I want to, not because Ihave to Like.
For me, work is only just apart of who I am now.
I was always seen as the solarguy or the energy transition guy
.
You know that was always myidentity and that served the
business well.
It probably helped our businessto grow, I think, over time but
(33:59):
I always felt that I was beingpigeonholed a bit and I felt
like I was so much more thanthat.
So for me, it's aboutidentifying what is it that you
want to be known for other thanwhat you do for a job?
Because it's not who I am.
And so I think you need tothink about your identity more
broadly and you need to thinkabout work as a part of your
life, but not wrap your wholeidentity up in it.
(34:20):
And I kind of again, I made alot of mistakes and suffered the
consequences of that, because Ihad wrapped myself up in the
business and become just Andythe solar guy and then then we
sold the business and I left.
I just had this massiveidentity crisis of who am I now?
So you know, there was a lifeafter it, which was very scary,
and I pretty quickly realizedthat I'd become very one
dimensional in my life.
(34:41):
And so now, other than someonewho built a business and sold it
and did quite well and all thethings we achieved, I'm you know
, I'm an author, I'm a coach ofmy kids' football and cricket
teams.
I'm the president of thefootball club in our local
community.
You know, I help to volunteeron cleaning bees up the main
street and working on communitygroups to help, you know,
improve the facilities in ourtown.
(35:03):
There's a lot of differentthings that I would use to
identify myself rather than justbeing the solar guy.
So I think, thinking about yourlegacy, beyond what you do for
a job and what makes you happy,and if it was all to end
tomorrow, what do you want to beknown for in your life?
And for me there's, you know.
I just have this urge to doeverything all at once because
(35:23):
life's so short and I want tolive four different lives at
once.
I want to live a whole life justachieving incredible things in
business, and I want to haveanother life where I have 10
kids and be an amazing dad,involved in every part of their
lives.
One part of my life wants tojust travel to every country in
the world and do it all and seeeverything and meet everyone
around the world.
There's just there's so much todo in this life and I think if
(35:45):
work gives you that joy andworking 60, 70 hours a week is
satisfying, you really enjoy it.
Then go and do it.
But I think there's a lot moreout there in the world to
experience and to get awell-rounded version of who you
are as a person.
Ness (35:58):
Absolutely.
Wow.
Is there anything someone couldhave said to you when you were
in that peak of it, when youwere in that part of the hustle,
hustle, hustle?
That would have perhaps shiftedyour mindset back then?
Actually, there is a better waythat I could be doing this.
Nicky (36:14):
Because in the book you talk about, self-care was an
option for later.
It's optional for later.
You know, running it was thehustle.
Push that self-care.
You hadn't had a holiday for 10years.
Andy (36:25):
Well, if I'm being honest, people probably did try to warn
me and I probably didn't listen.
You know, I could definitelyaccept that.
I had enough of those peoplearound me trying to give me that
perspective.
No, I think I feel in some wayslike I had to fall over myself
to learn that.
You know, I pushed myself toofar.
It's almost like that elasticband that eventually had to snap
(36:47):
and I I can remember acutelythe minds, the headspace that I
was in in the six or 12 monthsleading up to my, my breakdown.
I think I knew in the back ofmy mind there was a problem, but
I had no intention of doinganything about it.
I just thought that my workethic and my passion and my
drive was my superpower and thatwas.
I actually believe that thatwas what was ensuring the
(37:08):
success of our business.
That's why we've done betterthan everyone else is because of
this, relentless.
So I know it's not the rightanswer, but there's no right or
wrong in this.
Ness (37:17):
Yeah, it's honest.
Andy (37:18):
Like I genuinely believe that we were successful because
of that relentless nature.
I know now that it actuallywasn't necessary that we could
have done it all.
We could have had all of thatsuccess maybe taken an extra 12
months and I wouldn't have hadto take the time for a mental
breakdown, but I guess.
But what I'm really passionateabout now and what I'm currently
doing post the book launch andeverything else is I'm really
(37:39):
invested in getting out on thespeaking circuit talking to
schools and kids who areneurodivergent or don't fit into
a system they're strugglingwith life in some way, or people
that are right on the edge ofthat crashing burnout that I
went through and saying I havebeen where you are and I can
tell you what happens.
It might happen in six months,it might happen in two years.
Potentially it might neverhappen, but I can tell you it's
(38:02):
more likely to happen than not.
And I still remember the firstpresentation I gave, once I'd
recovered to the point where Icould actually talk about my
struggles and I thought I wasokay.
And I got halfway through mypresentation to a couple of
hundred people and I shed a tearand I started stumbling my
speech and I thought I'd stuffedthe entire presentation up, but
maybe that actually added tothe gravity of my story.
(38:25):
But some guy came up to meafterwards with his wife and his
son and they'd been nagging himto just get out of the office
and just to look after himself abit better and they gave me a
big hug and then they said totheir dad they say this is, this
is the guy you're going to turninto.
We told you don't end up likethis guy.
And we had a big hug and Ididn't get their names.
I've never spoken to him again,but it was a beautiful moment
(38:48):
and I'm getting those beautifulmoments to without being
arrogant about.
Like every few days I get amessage on LinkedIn or something
from a person who's read mybook and said I've just put the
book down and gone and spoken tomy wife about some stuff I've
been holding back.
I've now gone to see acounsellor, I'm'm in such a
better place and I thank you forstarting that conversation and
opening up.
That's what it's all about.
(39:09):
So, to anyone out there, if youget an opportunity to pay it
forward, please do so at everyopportunity, because it's a
wonderful feeling to improveeveryone else's health and
wellbeing through your ownlessons.
Ness (39:19):
Wow, that's such a powerful ending to this
incredible conversation.
Thank you, andy, so much forcoming.
We always end on what's anactionable action someone can
take in the next 24 hours, andI'm probably going to leave it
open to you, but I'll guide itin the sense that if there's
somebody listening who seesthemselves in you, it's like
(39:39):
what is it that advice that youwant to give them that they can
actually take on board andeither reflect on or do
something with in the next 24hours?
Andy (39:48):
Well, some really good advice I had recently was that,
rather than make a to-do list,make it to-be list and we're
always big on to-do lists.
I make them every day, lists ofthings I want to tick off
throughout the day, or newsresolutions or something like
that, but a to-be list is justthinking about what do I want to
be more of as a person and whatdo I want to be less of For me.
(40:09):
I reckon over the last fewyears I've seriously neglected a
lot of my friendships.
I've had friends that aredealing with terminal illnesses.
I've had friends that are goingthrough relationship breakups
and I've just had my head so farat my own backside and
prioritizing everything else inmy own life.
I haven't been a good friend.
So I just woke up the other dayand I said what's my to-be list
?
And my to-be list at the momentis to be a better friend.
(40:30):
So every day I take an hour tomessage three or four people I
really want to keep thatconnection with and just reach
out and ask them how they'regoing with something and just
checking in, saying how you'redoing.
So, whatever your to-be list isif there's something you want
to be more or less of as aperson, really reflect on that
and make this the year that youstart to be more of the things
that you like within yourselfand a version of yourself that
(40:52):
you can be really proud of.
Ness (40:54):
Love it, I love it.
What a great action to betaking.
You've got me inspired to bedoing something.
The same, definitely me too.
Yeah, Nicky as well.
Thank you so much, andy.
It's been wonderful having youhere with us and we wish you the
best in whatever comes next.
People go out and get this book.
It's amazing, and we'll dropthe links in the show notes for
sure.
Thanks, andy.
Andy (41:15):
Thanks for your support.
It's been great chatting.
Ness (41:17):
No worries, bye, bye.
Thanks for listening to today'sep.
If you loved what you heard,connect with us over on LinkedIn
and let's continue theconversation over there.
Did you hear?
You can now buy our bookHealthy Hustle the New Blueprint
to Thrive in Business and Lifeat healthyhustlecomau.
Want us to speak to your teamor run a workshop on healthy
(41:40):
hustle in your workplace?
Send us an email, or go oldschool and give us a call to
discuss.
Until next time, happylistening and here's to thriving
in business and life.
Welcome to the Smart Business Growth Podcast with
Nicky and Ness.
Ness (00:11):
We would like to acknowledge the traditional
custodians of country, theTurrbal and Bunurong people of
Brisbane and Melbournerespectively, where Nicky and I
both work and live both work andlive.
(00:32):
We are thrilled to have AndyMcCarthy as our first guest of
this series of the podcast.
He's an entrepreneur, an author, a mentor and a passionate
lover of life.
After overcoming a deeplytroubled childhood, andy moved
to the brown coal dominatedregion of the Latrobe Valley in
2010, and, of all things,decided to start a solar energy
business.
After overcoming years ofresistance, ridicule and
self-doubt, andy establishedGippsland Solar as one of
(00:55):
Australia's largest employers inthe renewable energy sector and
became known across the globeas the face of energy transition
in coal country.
In late 2019, gippsland Solarwas acquired by RACV.
Andy stayed on as CEO andManaging Director of RACV Solar
for three years before taking asix-month sabbatical and
(01:16):
spending time traveling abroadwith his wife, kelly, and three
young boys.
Andy's now returned to theworkforce, where his story of
soaring highs and crashing lowshas been captured in a highly
successful memoir entitled hereComes the Sun.
Andy's now a business coach,consultant to government and
industry and mentor to foundersand startups from across the
(01:36):
globe.
He sits on a number of boardsand advisory groups and is the
president of his local footballnetball club and junior footy
and cricket coach in his sparetime of his local football
netball club and junior footyand cricket coach in his spare
time.
We talked a lot about what Andywrote about in his book and I
highly recommend you get yourhands on a copy of it.
I listened to the audio, whichis Andy talking at reading the
book and Nicky picked up theactual hard copy.
(01:57):
So whichever way you prefer todo your reading, we can't
recommend highly enoughlistening to Andy's story.
There are so many valuabletakeaways and we're really
grateful that he gets to sharesome of those with us today.
So, without further ado, let'shead over and listen to the full
conversation.
Andy, when I was readingthrough your book here Comes the
(02:18):
Sun, there were so many timesthat Nicky's holding it up.
For those who aren't looking atthe video, I listen to the
audio, so I can't hold up myhard copy.
But one of the themes that camethrough quite a lot during the
book, through all of yourdifferent experiences in growing
a business and then, of course,in the acquisition, when you
(02:38):
were working around you know, inthe corporate space One of the
things that stood out to me waswe talk in our book Healthy
Hustle about entrepreneurialaddiction and what we find is
there can be such a pull towardsbeing the most important person
in the business, having thebusiness be all consuming.
You know, some of the keypoints around entrepreneurial
(03:00):
addiction are obsessive thoughts, so where you can't stop
thinking about it, thatwithdrawal when perhaps the
project's just been finished ora big sale's gone through.
It's almost like thatdepression or that slip back
some self-worth issues around,never really acknowledging
success.
And I think I remember yousaying that was a key thing,
(03:22):
that perhaps you just went.
What's the next thing?
What's the next thing?
What's the next thing?
An increase in tolerance against, you know, with perhaps the
working, the long hours, lack ofsleep, all of those kinds of
things, neglecting health,neglecting family, and then, you
know, continuing to push, eventhough you are experiencing
negative outcome from all ofthat.
(03:42):
So I'm curious to know withinthat, were you aware, whilst you
were experiencing all this, orwas it in the reflection of
writing the story, writing thebook, that it came perhaps more
clearer to you about how muchthat connection through to the
business was impacting your life?
Andy (04:01):
Well, I think for someone with ADHD or someone that's
neurodivergent.
I think I have a naturaltendency towards obsessive,
compulsive kind of behaviors.
I get very addicted tosomething and I go down a rabbit
hole and I'm just I will notrest until I've achieved
whatever it is I need to achieveand I'm sure a lot of your
listeners can relate to thatfeeling.
It's very satisfying, verystimulating at the time, but
(04:23):
that feeling of satisfaction itjust doesn't last.
It's fleeting and it's gone.
And the one thing I did realizeafter we actually sold our
business to RACV was that Ihadn't really ever experienced
any genuine moments ofsatisfaction over the 13 years
Like if you look at the historyof Gippsland Solar from the
spare garage in our little towncalled Merbu North in the hills
of Gippsland to having two or300 staff across the country,
(04:46):
having acquired other businesses, having toured the world and
done a lot of speaking andpresentations and things like
that I can't think of a timewhere I felt genuinely satisfied
because I was just constantlylooking for the next thing and I
wasn't even able to reflect andenjoy it that night I was just
hustling again.
I was back onto it.
What's next?
There's a few reasons why that'sa really bad idea.
(05:07):
Firstly, everything else comessecond to your pursuit of
business success and, like a lotof entrepreneurs, I tried to
sell myself some sort of a falsedream that I was doing this to
provide for my family or somesort of selfless pursuit to
support them, which is rubbish.
I was doing it because Ienjoyed it and it fed my ego at
times as well, I think, to behonest.
(05:27):
But further to that, it'sunsustainable for those around
you who don't share thatrelentless appetite for hustle,
and you burn people out.
You lose good people along theway.
You become a terrible husbandand father, as I did through
various times in our journey.
So I'm very proud of what weachieved on paper, but I'm
unfortunately had to learn thehard way, through almost a
(05:48):
complete mental and physicalbreakdown in early 2018, that it
wasn't sustainable and thenmake some changes to get that
healthy hustle back into my life, as you would say.
Fortunately, it wasn't too late.
I'm now still happily marriedand think I'm a good father.
I'm highly engaged in mychildren's lives, so maybe I'm
one of those people who learnedthe lesson before it became too
late, but I definitely paid alot of heavy prices for the
(06:12):
success we enjoyed.
There's no doubt.
Ness (06:18):
And do you think, then, that you know, as you move
forward into whatever comes next, you know now or into the
future, those lessons thatyou've learned, that you would
do things differently the nexttime around?
Andy (06:25):
There's no doubt, yeah, I'm a completely changed my own
DNA, I think, over the last fewyears and again, like many of my
lessons along our journey, Ilearned them the hard way.
I had some really awful momentsand you know I don't want to
spoil too much of the book forthe listeners who might go out
there and read it or listen toit but was moments where I was
running around the Mervyn Northgolf course at two o'clock in
(06:47):
the morning in the middle ofwinter, just bursting into tears
.
My heart was just pumping in mychest and I just collapsed in
the heap and just completelyfell apart.
I was on the phone to be onblue two or three times in some
nights just trying to help meget through to the morning
because I hadn't had a goodnight's sleep in months.
And then the funny you have amessage on LinkedIn from a
competitor.
(07:08):
That's like I can't believe thesuccess you guys have enjoyed.
It must be incredible.
I'm so envious of everythingyou guys have achieved.
I'm like well, really, becausemy life is actually a bin fire
right now and that's why Idecided to write the book.
What's it All?
I wanted people to know whathappens behind the veil
sometimes, you know, when youachieve great things, especially
in a short period of time,there's almost always a cost
(07:28):
that people need to be aware of.
Nicky (07:29):
And that's what we talk about a lot is that this version
of success has become toocostly.
And even reading your book andI highly recommend for everybody
who's listening and watching tograb a copy.
It's very entertaining, veryfunny, it's really interesting
and there's a lot of really key,important business and life
lessons and messages within thatand this piece around.
(07:50):
When you talked about, on theoutside it looked like
everything was brilliant, wasgreat, like everything you'd
worked towards, yet on theinside it felt so different.
And you know you talk aboutbeing neurodivergent and there
is, I guess, a DNA in that aswell the hustle, and people will
hustle in different ways.
So I'd love to know how haveyou actually created the change
(08:12):
that perhaps you wish you hadcreated earlier in the day, or
how do you do that?
For those that are listening,they might be like yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, but I'm here, thisis just where I'm at.
What are the things that youdid to now live so, so, so
differently?
Andy (08:27):
Well, I think for me, bringing in a life coach at that
time, when my life hadcompletely fallen apart, made a
huge difference.
And if people are in thisposition where they can afford
to do that or they have the timeor money to do so, then I would
highly recommend it because itwas the best investment I ever
made was that investment in myown health and wellbeing, and
I've learned some really goodlessons about just how to bring
discipline into my life and toacknowledge the kind of person I
(08:49):
am and to not give myself thatlatitude sometimes to go and
just be obsessed for longperiods of time without a break.
So I would bring structure intomy calendar.
I probably halve the amount ofmeetings I have in each week and
I would allow large gaps inbetween meetings to reflect on
the meeting I just had or theinteraction to think about and
prepare for the upcoming one,just to go for a walk and just
(09:12):
to think and to be and to justlet everything just kind of
absorb in my mind.
Because if I don't do that, I'mrunning and doing everything at
a great rate of knots and I'mfocusing on quantity not quality
.
So I've found that that'sactually addictive in itself.
When you find that beautifulbalance in your life where
you're doing everything reallywell at a high level and you're
super engaged, you actually getbetter work done and you're
(09:35):
happier and you're a betterspouse and parent, a better
friend, and you lead a moresustainable lifestyle as well.
So I highly recommend it.
Nicky (09:46):
There's that tipping point.
Isn't there around realizingthat actually the hustle, the
way that I hustled to this point, to get to the level of success
that I have, I need to find adifferent way to hustle, and a
key message here as well is thatit's not about not hustling
anymore.
It's about doing it in a waythat is fulfilling for us,
holistically sustainable andhealthy, and that impact on the
(10:06):
people around us.
Andy (10:08):
Yeah, and I think, especially for founders.
I mean, I share two commontraits with many other founders
that I a hopeless micromanagerback in the early days and that
I want to be involved ineverything, every decision.
I want to understand everything.
At the start, I wanted to bethe person who answered the
1-300 number and I wanted toinstall the system and follow up
with the customer and managethe entire customer experience
(10:28):
from end to end, because I knewthat I had control over their
entire experience.
It achieves your short-termgoals, but it's not sustainable.
And I think most founders gothrough that stage where they
have to learn to let go and torealize I don't need to be in
every meeting and be part ofevery decision, firstly because
it's not sustainable for my ownenergy levels and, secondly, my
team is never going to grow andspread their wings and develop.
(10:49):
So the happy byproduct of mefalling apart and my life
becoming a train wreck is that Icouldn't physically come into
work for six months.
I would sit in meetings and Ihad sweat patches start pouring
through on my shirt and Istarted feeling physically ill
and I had to go back home andcrawl into bed and change the
sheets when I woke up becauseI'd sweated out all of my
stresses for hours, so that sixmonths I couldn't work.
(11:11):
My team just rose to theoccasion and they really enjoyed
that freedom to make decisionsand to just run things past me,
but to be able to execute, andthey became great leaders in
their own right.
So it's not the way I'drecommend everyone go about
learning.
Nicky (11:24):
No, which is why we're having this conversation,
because how do we get through topeople earlier?
Because there is that feelingshe'll be right.
Nah, more good, like not evenseeing and realising or owning
or realising that there's aproblem.
Andy (11:37):
Well, for me, I would say you need to connect with
like-minded people.
You know the old saying thatyour network is your net worth.
The most valuable part of havinga good network is when you feel
that loneliness at the top thata lot of people do experience
as their business grows and theycan't confide in their staff
about what they're dealing with.
It's not always considered to behelpful or great leadership to
be that vulnerable with yourteam as you're growing a
(11:58):
business.
Sometimes you don't want tobring that home to your wife or
husband or dump your stressesonto them.
You need to find the outlet tobe able to share your concerns
whether it's joining a youngprofessionals organization or
some sort of a like-mindednetwork of people who are
dealing with similar challengesand almost use it as a form of
counseling and being able tojust download some of that
stress to someone who genuinelyunderstands what you're going
(12:19):
through.
It allows you to preserve thebest of yourself for your staff,
for your family, for yourfriends and to lead a more
balanced lifestyle.
So I highly recommend reachingout to people even if they're
not in your industry, justpeople that have dealt with
similar challenges, and usuallyyou find that you help each
other.
Ness (12:34):
Yeah, that's so important, isn't it?
It's just what we can help otherpeople if we're further ahead
on the journey or if weexperience something that is
life-changing is to really justshow them the way forward and to
be able to help them to notexperience what we've gone
through.
(12:55):
I'm really curious to understanda little bit more around.
You were talking like,especially in the early days
around micromanaging, and youknow, one of the things that
came through in the book wasyou're really proud of the
culture that grew in EastGippsland Solar and then, when
RSCV Solar took over, that youwere able to go through this
amalgamation and bring in allthese different people, and the
(13:17):
culture still remained reallystrong because there was a big
focus on that.
So what was it then that, ifyou were so wanting to be
involved in that, how did yourleaders become part of this
impressive culture thatobviously they then shared and
became a part of with their team?
So what do you think the thingwas there?
(13:38):
Was it something around whatyou did, what you said, or was
it more around the collectivethat created that culture?
Andy (13:45):
Well, I have a lot of shortcomings as a leader and I
don't really have anyqualifications or skills in a
lot of areas.
One thing I'm really passionateabout, and hopefully I was
really good at, was just almostlike seeing myself as a CEO, as
being the chief enthusiasmofficer, like just selling that
dream and saying we are changingthe world, we are slinging
sunshine every day.
We're giving the gift ofrenewable energy to all these
(14:05):
people and reducing theirelectricity bills for 20 years
into the future.
We're building a big businessthat employs people, that
reinvests in the community, thatmakes money and is also
providing a positive effect onthe future of our planet for the
next generation.
So it's just that every day youcome in and going guys, I know
it's hard, but just remember,this is what we're doing, this
(14:27):
is the purpose that we're on,and many people in other jobs
and other industries would loveto have the kind of purpose and
mission that we have.
It's just, day after day, justdrumming it into people,
reminding them of the biggerpicture, and they go.
It is pretty cool actually whatwe're doing.
Yeah, yeah, it's a wonderfuljourney.
We're part of this revolutionwhich is changing the world, and
make no bones about the fact,or have no shame in the fact,
(14:49):
that we are building a businessthat makes money and creates
fantastic employment outcomesfor people, and you know we've
enjoyed financial success, butnot at the expense of the planet
.
So I think inspiring the teamand getting them to buy into the
vision was really helpful andteaching them the gift of giving
to others and paying thatforward as well.
So not micromanaging their ownteams and learning to step back
(15:10):
and teaching them to fish ratherthan buying them a fish.
It's almost like a contagiouseffect that just spreads through
the organization, where peopletake more joy out of empowering
someone and watching them go onto get credit for doing
something amazing than doing itthemselves.
I preface it by saying that Ilearned that lesson the hard way
.
Like I said, I was a terriblemicromanager, particularly for
the first five years, but once Ihad a taste of sitting back and
(15:32):
giving someone the tools andwatching them go and flourish
and getting no credit for whatthey'd actually achieved
themselves, I learned to find ajoy in that.
That became incrediblyintoxicating and I think that
spreads through the organization, where people take more joy in
the achievements of others thangetting credit for it themselves
.
Ness (15:47):
Yeah, so you're all on the same page about why we do what
we do.
And then you know and I think Iremember reading in the book as
well around the vision, gettingthe vision and the values and,
you know, really bringing peopleon board so that they
understand what we stand for.
Andy (16:03):
And also we're really big on promoting the achievements of
others in the organisation.
We would have internal awardswhere someone would nominate
someone else for an incredibleact of selflessness or something
that met the company values.
And I think one thing that alot of businesses do really
poorly which I think we'rereally good at as we grew was
celebrating the quiet achieversin the business.
Every business has those peoplewho don't self-promote.
(16:24):
They're not constantly brownnosing or being a sycophant to
the boss, they just get theirjob done to a high level every
day, and everybody that ever runa business would be able to
identify who those people are intheir own business.
One of my messages is liftthose people up and celebrate
them.
So you're not just celebratingself-promotion, but you're
celebrating people that areexceptional in what they do,
that really care about their job, because they get forgotten in
(16:45):
businesses as you growparticularly.
Nicky (16:47):
That's so true and it's so easy then to put your
attention to the loudest personin the room as an example.
But taking that more expandedview and I've got so many notes
throughout my book, you know, soI know as an author that's a
good feeling and even I'vewritten down here, like talking
through this values, managingenergy and North Star.
They seem to be a really goodtrio mix of what helped you move
(17:11):
through to eventually continueand to be where you are today in
terms of your success.
Andy (17:16):
Yeah, I think so, and I think the ultimate test of that
was when you take a businessthat started in the garage of
your family home and after 10years you sell it to RACV, a
multi-billion dollar insuranceconglomerate Very different
values, to be honest, than thoseof Gippsland Solar, Our staff.
Christmas parties used to bejust a bathtub full of beers and
ice in my shed and I wasturning the snags, and they were
(17:41):
great nights.
Nicky (17:41):
I really miss them.
I did feel nostalgic actuallyreading a lot of the book, like
the traveling.
We're the same age, so I'm like, oh my gosh, yeah, I remember
back in the 2000s, but anyway,yep.
Andy (17:50):
Yeah, it's a nice part of the journey to reflect on.
Sometimes I think we forget howhard those times were and we
look at the it's like looking atthe photos from your holiday
you think, oh, that was a greattrip and you're like, actually,
the kids walked the whole way,yeah.
But then being thrust into thatcorporate world when I had no
experience in corporate worldand I had no desire to get into
it at all and bringing a team ofmaybe had about 100 staff at
(18:13):
that stage.
There's a lot of lessons inthat, but a strong foundational
base of values and North Starand alignment is obviously
critical.
But you're always going to betested really, really strongly
in terms of bringing your teaminto a new environment, selling
them a new dream.
You can imagine when I stoodthere and said to my team this
is a great day for our businessand they go well, you've just
(18:34):
had a payday, so, of course,you'd pay that.
So you've got to also treat themwith respect and acknowledge
that it's.
You know it's great for you moreso than them in a lot of ways.
But I think learning how tounite in public but then debate
in private you know, once we'dsold the business was really
cool.
I know my chair, nicole fromRACV, listens to some of my
podcasts and she would heard mesay in the past that we had some
(18:56):
very, very strict, sternconversations, I would say, and
we fought some serious battlesbehind closed doors, but we
always proverbially held handsand walked out together and said
this is where we're going,because she understood how
important my team was to me.
But I also understood that if Iwasn't completely aligned to
this new mission and these newvalues as an RECV company, that
my team would pick up on thatand that would just spread
(19:17):
through the entire organizationand undermine all the work we're
trying to do.
So yeah, it's hard sometimesand I'm sure anyone in a middle
management or in a corporaterole would have appreciated this
over the years that sometimesyou just have to be strong with
what you believe in.
But once you've decided on thedirection, you just have to be
all in together and completelyaligned with your messaging,
otherwise it all falls apartquickly.
Ness (19:36):
Absolutely.
I remember learning that lessonwhen I was leading back in the
day when I was in the Centrelinkworld, and learning that from a
leader above me who just openlyadmitted that she did it really
badly one day and she justrealized that she just
undermined everything andactually it was terrible for the
team because it just createdthis them versus us kind of
(19:59):
experience and that is not.
That just shifts the attentionfrom the focus that you want it
to be on about the cultureyou're building and the reason
why you're here.
So such an important lesson.
Andy (20:11):
You'll always have to.
In that situation I was in,you're always going to have to
sell a message to your team thatyou don't wholeheartedly
believe in.
That is just the way of theworld, that's the way of
business, that's the way ofpolitics, of everything, and I
struggled to come to terms withthat because I thought I was
maybe selling my values up theriver in some ways.
But ultimately it's just aboutfighting the battles that you
truly believe in and acceptingthat sometimes you have to just
(20:32):
grow up, and if you want to sellyour business, you can't keep
control.
You can do one, but it alsocomes to the other, and so that
growing up process for me wasprobably the greatest learning
experience of my professionallife, because I'd be selling a
vision to my team, saying here'swhat we're doing, and they're
looking at me going.
This is not you, andy, this isnot what you believe in or what
(20:53):
you would have done.
I was like this is the worldthat we live in and this is
where we're going, and I supportthe new direction, and you're
going to have to come and lockin behind me, because this is
where we're going, whether youlike it or not.
Nicky (20:59):
I think that's a really important reminder for all
levels of leadership as well,because as we progress in
leadership sorry, if we've inleadership it is that beautiful
balance of knowing when andwhere to have your unedited
conversation and who you'rehaving that with, and the
opportunity to share your voiceand go into battle and go into
fight.
(21:19):
And then, equally, how do weagain have that unified front?
And if it really is amisalignment, then it's a bigger
question really, at the end ofthe day around, is this actually
right for me?
But it's just, it is thereality of leadership.
Andy (21:31):
Yeah Well, it's no different to any relationship or
marriage or anything.
It's about picking your battles.
Nicky (21:37):
Yes, true, negotiating, where you can, you win some, you
don't win others.
Andy (21:42):
And sometimes being right doesn't help.
Nicky (21:43):
Sometimes it actually makes it worse, yeah that's true
, and exactly, and just let itgo, even if we are right, just
let it go, and exactly and justlet it go, even if we are right.
Ness (21:50):
Just let it go.
Have you heard?
Our book Healthy Hustle, theNew Blueprint to Thriving
Business and Life, is availableright now to purchase.
In Healthy Hustle, we take youthrough real-world, practical
and achievable steps to move youaway from unhealthy hustle to a
place of happiness and living,whilst continuing to achieve
(22:14):
incredible business results.
Nicky (22:18):
I would love a little bit of insight which feeds into
this as well, particularlyaround when you were talking
about letting your team win andget the results, and then you
get this sense of pride aroundthat, and you do have a chapter
in your book and it's all aroundpride versus ego.
Would you be able to give us alittle snippet of what this
definition is for you and how itplays out?
Andy (22:37):
Yeah, as I alluded to in the book, I think that pride can
be really helpful sometimes.
Being proud of your business,being proud of who you are,
being proud of your success, canbe a very healthy thing and
cause you to achieve incrediblethings in business and in life
can be a very healthy thing andcause you to achieve incredible
things in business and in life.
But I think the point where itbecomes ego, where it becomes
(22:58):
pointless pride, was reallywhere I had to try and find that
line and I stepped over it timeand time and time again.
So I only speak as someone whomade, again, a lot of mistakes
along the way.
But sometimes, when you'refighting a fight or you're
engaged in competitive tensionwith another business or doing
something in business thatstimulates an emotional response
, I just learned to sort ofpause and go.
Why am I actually responding tothis?
Is it actually going to achieveanything or is it just here?
(23:21):
Is it just to serve my ego?
It's not always easy to workout the right answer there
sometimes and those two, prideand ego, do kind of overlap with
each other.
But there was a lot of thingsthat I did in business that in
hindsight were really justpointless pursuits to either
refuel my ego or to respond tosomething that emotionally
(23:42):
provoked me, but there wasnothing to gain.
Sometimes you just have to sitback and let someone have a
victory because ultimately it'sjust not worth it.
And a lot of that really onlycomes with time or experience,
or maybe making those mistakesand learning the hard way, and I
(24:02):
was fortunate to have someguiding hands on my shoulder
over the years of people thatkept me in check, even some of
my team that I came out of ameeting one time and I thought
that I'd really nailed thisaddress to my team, and then one
of my general managers calledme and said you sounded a bit up
yourself today.
I said, really, he goes.
Yeah, yeah, you did, and Ireckon there was a few looks in
the room that probably told meother people felt the same way
and I said why don't people tellme these things anymore?
(24:25):
And he said because they'reintimidated by you.
That was a moment that hit mebetween the eyes, because
they're intimidated by you.
That was a moment that hit mebetween the eyes because, for
someone who's worked in thegarage starting their business
and worked till midnight, got onthe roof and taken the skin off
their nails laying their ownsolar panels back in the early
days.
You can't see a time where you'dbe perceived to be so
successful that you intimidatepeople.
It just didn't even occur to methat I'd be intimidating.
(24:45):
I wanted to be approachable andI thought that I was, and at
some point people were tooscared to give me honest
feedback because they wereintimidated, which was an awful
feeling.
But that again becomes, I think, your ego getting in the way.
That you need to be humble andvulnerable enough with your team
that they feel they can giveyou this feedback, and my team
knew when I asked for feedback.
I want feedback.
(25:06):
I don't want platitudes oranything.
I want to be told exactly whatI can do to improve as a leader,
and you know you're not goingto upset me or offend me.
I need this feedback, otherwiseI'm not going to be able to
continue on my own growthjourney.
Nicky (25:21):
I think what's important in that is it's how you respond
to it, isn't it?
Because I've seen this beforewith you know, I worked with a
GM who had an open door policy.
It open door policy.
It's like why aren't peoplecoming in?
Two hours a month, 15 minutemeetings, book in, you can talk
to me about anything, and theslots weren't being taken up.
Why?
Why?
Why it's about what we say, butthen it's just purely because
of title, right, Like there'sthat intimidation piece.
(25:42):
But I don't know, do you thinkthat that ever really goes away?
Because there is a status and ahierarchy, even if you, as a
good human, don't want there tobe.
Andy (25:48):
I think you can always try to lessen the impact, while
acknowledging that will alwaysbe an issue, Like if you think
about yourself coming into anorganisation, maybe at the fifth
level of an organisation, youwouldn't even after a couple of
years, potentially, you wouldn'tgo to the CEO and say exactly
how you feel about something orgive them any feedback.
You just wouldn't do it.
So it's not realistic to thinkthat everyone will do that, but
(26:11):
you do need to do as much as youcan to create the vulnerable
leadership.
I think that I was really bigon oh you know, I would bring
members of my team after I had abad day, I made a bad decision.
I'd ring one of my team and sayI could have handled that a lot
better, couldn't I?
And they say yeah, probably,and then we just workshop it.
It's the same with your, yourchildren, just admitting that
you know, mum and dad have flaws.
(26:31):
We make mistakes.
We're more mature than you guysare, but we're still human and
we still make mistakes, and Ithink humanising your
shortcomings and your mistakesthat you make creates a really
safe place for everyone else tostart to open up as well and
also to give you that two-wayfeedback.
That's really important.
And the other thing I found isin an RACV world where I was so
busy all the time I had so muchto do there was two or three
(26:54):
days a week.
Thankfully during COVID I didn'thave to come in the office five
days.
But I try to use that timereally effectively and say when
I am busy and when I've got alot of pressure I'm not coming
into the office, Because thelast thing you want to do,
especially in an open plan kindof environment, is to be sitting
there with steam coming out ofyour ears or just stressed and
looking unapproachable.
So I would do all of my work athome and hustle really hard at
(27:16):
home to get on top of everything.
And when I didn't have much onmy plate then I would go into
the office and I would just goseat by seat, sit down, have a
chat with people.
What are you working on?
I saw that project you guysdelivered.
The customer said you knockedout of the park.
I'm really really proud ofeveryone you know just going
person by person and just havingthat conversation to get to
understand what's happening intheir world and just humanising
your role so they don't see youas some figurehead, but actually
(27:39):
is just another member of theteam who wants the same things
that they do.
Ness (27:42):
There's a lot in that, because I think there's the
ability to be able to carve outthe time, because so many
leaders that we talk to,particularly in corporate space,
talk about the fact that theyjust they're so time poor, they
have so many demands on them andthat the coaching or the
conversations that they havehave to take a back seat because
(28:04):
we've just got so many otherthings that we have to focus on.
And yet it's just like so Idon't know.
It's so triggering for me,because I know that it's those
one-on-one conversations you'rehaving with your team.
To really find out wherethey're at, or to give them that
feedback and hear the goodthings as well as the critiques,
is vital, because people needto feel a sense of belonging,
(28:25):
they need to feel like they'remaking a difference.
They need to.
I mean, they want to beacknowledged.
They want to be even the quietones but in their way right To
be able to say, hey, great job,and this is why it's a great job
.
So I think that you know thatself-awareness around who am I,
how do I work best, and probablythrough learning, and also you
(28:48):
know what it is that you knowabout yourself.
I would imagine the did theADHD diagnosis come later in
life or earlier in life?
Andy (28:55):
No, no, it was pretty clear to everyone when I was 10
or 11 years old.
Right, okay, there's somethinggoing on there.
Ness (29:00):
That was something, and I ask that question because
Nicky's only just had thathappen for her in the last
couple of years, so that's meantsome great conversations
between us.
Andy (29:10):
It all makes sense now, doesn't it, Nicky?
Ness (29:12):
Ah, I see.
Andy (29:14):
That's why I do those things.
Ness (29:16):
Absolutely so, because we are so big on healthy hustle in
our business that we holdourselves accountable to that
and each other.
And I think what?
Initially I'd be going Nicky,why are you working so late?
You know that's not what we do,and blah, blah, blah.
But now it's around when shegets that laser focus and can
smash out all this particularlycreative work.
(29:36):
It's got to be when she's gotthe energy and the focus for
that.
And then the question thenbecomes not about reprimand, not
that I'd reprimand- her butyou're so bad, but it would be
not around you.
You know what are you doing?
Working so late.
It's like when are you going totake some equivalent time off
just to recharge those batteries?
Because if you go, go, go, go,go at that pace, it's great,
(29:58):
because you smash out a heap ofwork in that week but then you
fall in a heap the next week yep, I agree and I I think there's
been a really unhealthy focus onleaders that want to be seen to
be the first in the office andthe last to leave.
Andy (30:10):
I know every leader is different in their own style,
but I just don't understand it.
My job is not to be the onethat is there for the longest
hours.
It's the one that sets thevision and the direction, and
when I am there, I'm highlyengaged in the team.
I'm really invested in whatwe're all doing together.
But they don't need to see youthere for hour after hour
(30:30):
grinding away on a computer.
I don't think it achievesanything and I just don't think
any leaders that I've reallyworked with honestly spend
enough time of their 100 pointsof energy on focusing on their
team and spending time just withtheir team, even with nothing
on the agenda, just spendingtime with them, understanding
them as employees, understandingthem as people, getting to work
(30:55):
out how to get the best out ofthem.
Even some of the performancereviews where I'm saying I want
to come in, I want to be a partof this myself, because I want
to say to the person that we'rereviewing, or performance
monitoring, is how can we helpyou to help us.
What can we do in this business?
There has to be something thatwe can do to help get the best
out of you, because at themoment, to me you don't seem
happy, and if you're not happy,you're probably not performing
to the highest possiblestandards.
(31:15):
So tell me, what can I do andwhat can I change in this
business to help create a betterenvironment, to help get the
best out of you?
And when they see the CEO ofthe organization super invested
and asking them for thatfeedback directly, I think it's
very empowering and it makespeople realise they have a lot
of agency in their role andmakes them take their job more
seriously as well sometimes.
Ness (31:35):
Absolutely.
And if you set that tone fromtop, then you have the
opportunity for the leaders inthe next level down to be able
to learn from that and to beable to apply that to their own
leadership skills, you know, sothat they also then go.
Actually, this is reallyvitally important in this
business that people matter.
And I might be great at thetechnical things and I might be,
(31:58):
you know, a superpower if I canshut the office door and
everybody leave me alone, but ifI'm a leader in a business, I'm
actually here to lead people.
Andy (32:06):
Yep, that's exactly what the core focus should be leading
people, showing them thatyou're all on this journey
together and a lot of the thingsthat happen behind the scenes
are not as important to them aswhether you really care about
them and understand them aspeople.
Nicky (32:18):
So what I really also love about this is, in order to
be able to have the time to bewith people and to do that
one-on-one, we've got to haveour house in order get on the
balcony of the business.
You know a lot of the thingsthat we talk around about people
, performance principles, sofocusing on culture, operating,
rhythms, skills when we get to aplace of time freedom.
(32:38):
The ultimate definition of thatis choice with our time.
So I think this is a great callto arms for every business
owner, founder, listener, ceo,leader that's listening and
watching to say, well, how can Iget to that place of time
freedom?
So the goal is that I spendmore time with people, rather
than the time versus outcome.
(33:00):
Oh, time, that whole morning,first thing in the morning, last
person out at night that isjust so old school now, come on,
come on, there's a different,better way here.
Right, if you're still doingthat, it is time to find a
different, better way, likewe've got examples here.
So, yeah, very, very cool, andI'd love to know before I hand
back over to Ness for our wrapup question these days, right
(33:22):
here, right now, 2025, you'vewritten a book, you've done
incredible things andcongratulations on your journey.
All of it, the ups, the downs.
To be here today with us havingthis conversation is very
inspiring.
So you know, congratulations onall of that.
What does healthy hustle meanto you today?
Andy (33:38):
Well, I'm at a stage in life where I want to be able to
work if I want to, not because Ihave to Like.
For me, work is only just apart of who I am now.
I was always seen as the solarguy or the energy transition guy
.
You know that was always myidentity and that served the
business well.
It probably helped our businessto grow, I think, over time but
(33:59):
I always felt that I was beingpigeonholed a bit and I felt
like I was so much more thanthat.
So for me, it's aboutidentifying what is it that you
want to be known for other thanwhat you do for a job?
Because it's not who I am.
And so I think you need tothink about your identity more
broadly and you need to thinkabout work as a part of your
life, but not wrap your wholeidentity up in it.
(34:20):
And I kind of again, I made alot of mistakes and suffered the
consequences of that, because Ihad wrapped myself up in the
business and become just Andythe solar guy and then then we
sold the business and I left.
I just had this massiveidentity crisis of who am I now?
So you know, there was a lifeafter it, which was very scary,
and I pretty quickly realizedthat I'd become very one
dimensional in my life.
(34:41):
And so now, other than someonewho built a business and sold it
and did quite well and all thethings we achieved, I'm you know
, I'm an author, I'm a coach ofmy kids' football and cricket
teams.
I'm the president of thefootball club in our local
community.
You know, I help to volunteeron cleaning bees up the main
street and working on communitygroups to help, you know,
improve the facilities in ourtown.
(35:03):
There's a lot of differentthings that I would use to
identify myself rather than justbeing the solar guy.
So I think, thinking about yourlegacy, beyond what you do for
a job and what makes you happy,and if it was all to end
tomorrow, what do you want to beknown for in your life?
And for me there's, you know.
I just have this urge to doeverything all at once because
(35:23):
life's so short and I want tolive four different lives at
once.
I want to live a whole life justachieving incredible things in
business, and I want to haveanother life where I have 10
kids and be an amazing dad,involved in every part of their
lives.
One part of my life wants tojust travel to every country in
the world and do it all and seeeverything and meet everyone
around the world.
There's just there's so much todo in this life and I think if
(35:45):
work gives you that joy andworking 60, 70 hours a week is
satisfying, you really enjoy it.
Then go and do it.
But I think there's a lot moreout there in the world to
experience and to get awell-rounded version of who you
are as a person.
Ness (35:58):
Absolutely.
Wow.
Is there anything someone couldhave said to you when you were
in that peak of it, when youwere in that part of the hustle,
hustle, hustle?
That would have perhaps shiftedyour mindset back then?
Actually, there is a better waythat I could be doing this.
Nicky (36:14):
Because in the book you talk about, self-care was an
option for later.
It's optional for later.
You know, running it was thehustle.
Push that self-care.
You hadn't had a holiday for 10years.
Andy (36:25):
Well, if I'm being honest, people probably did try to warn
me and I probably didn't listen.
You know, I could definitelyaccept that.
I had enough of those peoplearound me trying to give me that
perspective.
No, I think I feel in some wayslike I had to fall over myself
to learn that.
You know, I pushed myself toofar.
It's almost like that elasticband that eventually had to snap
(36:47):
and I I can remember acutelythe minds, the headspace that I
was in in the six or 12 monthsleading up to my, my breakdown.
I think I knew in the back ofmy mind there was a problem, but
I had no intention of doinganything about it.
I just thought that my workethic and my passion and my
drive was my superpower and thatwas.
I actually believe that thatwas what was ensuring the
(37:08):
success of our business.
That's why we've done betterthan everyone else is because of
this, relentless.
So I know it's not the rightanswer, but there's no right or
wrong in this.
Ness (37:17):
Yeah, it's honest.
Andy (37:18):
Like I genuinely believe that we were successful because
of that relentless nature.
I know now that it actuallywasn't necessary that we could
have done it all.
We could have had all of thatsuccess maybe taken an extra 12
months and I wouldn't have hadto take the time for a mental
breakdown, but I guess.
But what I'm really passionateabout now and what I'm currently
doing post the book launch andeverything else is I'm really
(37:39):
invested in getting out on thespeaking circuit talking to
schools and kids who areneurodivergent or don't fit into
a system they're strugglingwith life in some way, or people
that are right on the edge ofthat crashing burnout that I
went through and saying I havebeen where you are and I can
tell you what happens.
It might happen in six months,it might happen in two years.
Potentially it might neverhappen, but I can tell you it's
(38:02):
more likely to happen than not.
And I still remember the firstpresentation I gave, once I'd
recovered to the point where Icould actually talk about my
struggles and I thought I wasokay.
And I got halfway through mypresentation to a couple of
hundred people and I shed a tearand I started stumbling my
speech and I thought I'd stuffedthe entire presentation up, but
maybe that actually added tothe gravity of my story.
(38:25):
But some guy came up to meafterwards with his wife and his
son and they'd been nagging himto just get out of the office
and just to look after himself abit better and they gave me a
big hug and then they said totheir dad they say this is, this
is the guy you're going to turninto.
We told you don't end up likethis guy.
And we had a big hug and Ididn't get their names.
I've never spoken to him again,but it was a beautiful moment
(38:48):
and I'm getting those beautifulmoments to without being
arrogant about.
Like every few days I get amessage on LinkedIn or something
from a person who's read mybook and said I've just put the
book down and gone and spoken tomy wife about some stuff I've
been holding back.
I've now gone to see acounsellor, I'm'm in such a
better place and I thank you forstarting that conversation and
opening up.
That's what it's all about.
(39:09):
So, to anyone out there, if youget an opportunity to pay it
forward, please do so at everyopportunity, because it's a
wonderful feeling to improveeveryone else's health and
wellbeing through your ownlessons.
Ness (39:19):
Wow, that's such a powerful ending to this
incredible conversation.
Thank you, andy, so much forcoming.
We always end on what's anactionable action someone can
take in the next 24 hours, andI'm probably going to leave it
open to you, but I'll guide itin the sense that if there's
somebody listening who seesthemselves in you, it's like
(39:39):
what is it that advice that youwant to give them that they can
actually take on board andeither reflect on or do
something with in the next 24hours?
Andy (39:48):
Well, some really good advice I had recently was that,
rather than make a to-do list,make it to-be list and we're
always big on to-do lists.
I make them every day, lists ofthings I want to tick off
throughout the day, or newsresolutions or something like
that, but a to-be list is justthinking about what do I want to
be more of as a person and whatdo I want to be less of For me.
(40:09):
I reckon over the last fewyears I've seriously neglected a
lot of my friendships.
I've had friends that aredealing with terminal illnesses.
I've had friends that are goingthrough relationship breakups
and I've just had my head so farat my own backside and
prioritizing everything else inmy own life.
I haven't been a good friend.
So I just woke up the other dayand I said what's my to-be list
?
And my to-be list at the momentis to be a better friend.
(40:30):
So every day I take an hour tomessage three or four people I
really want to keep thatconnection with and just reach
out and ask them how they'regoing with something and just
checking in, saying how you'redoing.
So, whatever your to-be list isif there's something you want
to be more or less of as aperson, really reflect on that
and make this the year that youstart to be more of the things
that you like within yourselfand a version of yourself that
(40:52):
you can be really proud of.
Ness (40:54):
Love it, I love it.
What a great action to betaking.
You've got me inspired to bedoing something.
The same, definitely me too.
Yeah, Nicky as well.
Thank you so much, andy.
It's been wonderful having youhere with us and we wish you the
best in whatever comes next.
People go out and get this book.
It's amazing, and we'll dropthe links in the show notes for
sure.
Thanks, andy.
Andy (41:15):
Thanks for your support.
It's been great chatting.
Ness (41:17):
No worries, bye, bye.
Thanks for listening to today'sep.
If you loved what you heard,connect with us over on LinkedIn
and let's continue theconversation over there.
Did you hear?
You can now buy our bookHealthy Hustle the New Blueprint
to Thrive in Business and Lifeat healthyhustlecomau.
Want us to speak to your teamor run a workshop on healthy
(41:40):
hustle in your workplace?
Send us an email, or go oldschool and give us a call to
discuss.
Until next time, happylistening and here's to thriving
in business and life.
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