November 26, 2024 • 19 mins
In this episode, Nicky and Ness dive into the modern obsession with busyness and how it often leads to unproductive patterns. They discuss the societal pressure to be constantly "busy" and share strategies to combat feelings of overwhelm. Learn about the 51% of work time spent on low-value tasks and how to make your efforts more meaningful.
Episode Highlights:
- The paradox of busyness and procrastination.
- Strategies to break free from low-value tasks.
- The Do Be Model: Balancing action with self-awareness.
- Understanding Stephen Covey's time management grid.
- Practical tips to improve productivity and energy management.
Tune in to transform how you handle your workload!
Learn more about Nicky and Ness https://businesstogether.com.au
Buy a copy of Healthy Hustle: The New Blueprint to Thrive in Business & Life www.healthyhustle.com.au
Follow us on socials
Instagram - @b2businesstogether
Facebook - @B2BusinessTogether
Connect on LinkedIn
Nicky LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/connectwithnicky/
Ness LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/vanessamedling/
Give us a call
Nicky Miklos-Woodley 0403 191 404
Vanessa (Ness) Medling 0400 226 875
Or send us an email hello@businesstogether.com.au
Music by Jules Miklos-Woodley
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to the Smart Business Growth Podcast with
Nickyand.
Ness.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
We would like to acknowledge the traditional
custodians of country, theTurrbal and Bunurong people of
Brisbane and Melbournerespectively, where Nicky and I
both work and live, both workand live.
It seems to be something outthere in the world, in the
universe, where people areconstantly talking about how
(00:33):
busy they are.
Ask any business owner or youknow somebody who's working in a
bigger organization around theworkload.
In fact, I have found myselffeeling that this week, in the
week of us publishing our bookand getting to the post office
and sending stuff off andwriting on cards and signing
books on top of our normalworkload, it has actually felt
(00:56):
quite hectic and I really thinkabout we talk about it in the
book some of the stats that youfound in relation to this whole
concept about people are busyand yet 88% of working people
procrastinate on a daily basis.
I so can relate to that.
There are times where I feellike my workload is so
(01:17):
overwhelming that I probablyspend half an hour just looking
at emails, because that feelseasy, right?
Just looking at emails, becausethat feels easy, right.
Which leads us into the nextstat, which is the average
worker spends 51% of every dayon low to no value tasks.
Now that's not saying therearen't important emails in there
to be looking at, but for me, Iknow that I come back to that.
I come back to what I know isnot productive in order to
(01:42):
handle looking at what has tohappen.
And so that's for me, where Ifind I say myself and to people
around me that I feel reallybusy at the moment.
I'm working longer hours thannormal and that whole get caught
up into that whirlwind ofeither taking a lot of action
but not really valuable action,or actually just sitting back
(02:03):
going oh, I can't do this.
So do you relate to that aswell, nick?
Is that something that I don'tknow?
Maybe you in the past?
Maybe?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
you're a shining example of how to fix this and
you're laughing, so I gather not.
I don't think it's fixablebecause it's kind of a way of
the working world and I amgiggling here in the corner, in
the corner at the desk becauseof a few different reasons, one
being I feel like in the lastdecade I've been on this mission
not only to redefine hustleculture in a healthy way, also
(02:37):
to ban the B word, because Iremember actually probably
almost even 10 years ago, atleast five years ago, I feel
like every conversation was howare you today Busy?
What's going on with you Busy?
And I had this approach Ibanned the B word.
None of my clients, none of myteam, are allowed to say the
word busy because it doesn't addvalue and the reality is we are
(03:00):
busy, so we can ban the B word.
I think that's important interms of our beliefs and our
mindset and what we focus on.
It doesn't change the fact thatwe're not busy.
Just like you said, there'sgoing to be projects or things
that we're working on, orunexpected aspects of life are
thrown at us and then all of asudden, our workload increases.
So reality is we are busy andit's about how do we sort of
(03:23):
move through that I also.
What comes to mind is theStephen Covey's time management
grid when you're talking about.
I'll just jump in and do someemails because it feels good, it
feels safe, it feels easy andit can actually still feel kind
of productive, even though, likeyou said, 51% of people are
spending time on low to no valuetasks.
But we get this false sense ofaccomplishment and Stephen
(03:43):
Covey's time management grid one.
But we get this false sense ofaccomplishment and Stephen
Covey's time management grid oneof the quadrants.
Is that not important, noturgent?
Whenever I take people throughthat, why would you have that
quadrant?
Well, sometimes we need it andsometimes it's resourceful and
sometimes it's unresourceful.
So if there's anyone thatdoesn't resonate with this
conversation or have actuallyfound the fix, reach out to us,
(04:06):
let us know, because I don'tknow if we can fix it.
I think it's about theevolution of how we flow with it
and we're humans.
It's that whole piece we arenot robots which is more
relevant to remember now thesedays than ever, and we're human,
so some days it's going to feelharder to handle Ness.
I wonder if, looking at thisfrom a perspective of like we
(04:26):
need to fix this versus whatwe're going to share today
around.
Well, what's a maybe moreresourceful frame to look at it
through, because sometimes Ithink we can fall into all or
nothing?
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah, oh, a hundred percent, and usually I can tell
the state of my mind by thestate of my surroundings, and so
I used to pat myself on theback when I was aware or more
self-aware, especially in theearly days of my business.
My previous business was wellgood on me because I know I'm
procrastinating, but look at allthe good work I've done by
(04:57):
decluttering and therefore go me.
If you're going to do somethingunresourceful or sorry, not
unresourceful that is aresourceful way of
procrastinating.
But you're going toprocrastinate, make it
worthwhile.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Yeah, it should be my belief, but now it's great it
feels good, but did it help getthose sales recruit that team
member, like whatever those youknow wildly important goals are?
But sometimes we do need thatas well.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
I think so, and this is where our do-be model comes
into play.
I think, because if we look atthe difference between
action-taking, so we can takeaction, but clearly sometimes
not in the right area or notwith the right focus, because
it's just like checking theemails or tidying up your desk.
You know what I mean.
Or you can be looking at the.
(05:44):
You know the space and thegrace, the part that allows us
to nurture ourselves and stepback from what we're doing and
stop doing in order to figureout what's actually going on for
me right now, what are mybeliefs, what is my mindset in
relation to this.
So I think, when the actiontaking and the space and grace
are both low, that's wherepeople feel stuck, and I believe
(06:07):
busy probably sits more in theaction taking side than the
space and grace side.
So if we think of feeling stuck,you know some of the things
that I would describe that as isfeeling frozen, like really
unable to take action becausethe overwhelm is too large.
You just got so much going on,you don't know where to start
(06:30):
and you feel like this busyness,like the clutter on my desk or
the clutter in my mind or theclutter on my screen.
You know all the tabs are open.
It's suffocating, and so,rather than doing anything like
I, think of days and we talkedabout this in the past where it
was probably just better for meto take a day off and regroup,
(06:50):
rather than sitting at acomputer for seven hours and
feeling like I've achievednothing because I was too stuck.
So I think that that canactually be a place where we
start to talk about I'm so busy,because it makes us feel like
there's an excuse for not doinganything, for being stuck,
(07:11):
because look at what's going onaround me, look what I have to
achieve, even though I'm reallyI'm struggling.
But that's not an okay thing totell people, right, especially
the old hey, how are you doing?
Good thanks.
If you're going like what'sgoing on for you Busy, oh, okay,
then I'll leave you alone or Iwon't probe anymore, whereas I
think the real conversation isactually, I feel, really stuck
(07:33):
right now and I need some helpwith that, but I don't think
that's the go-to answer for alot of people.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah, and I think even just share like it's a
better quality connection andconversation if you share a
little bit more about what'sgoing on for you.
So it could be I need some help.
It could just be things feelchaotic right now.
You know like it paints abetter, not better picture, a
more accurate picture.
So people know what's going onfor you.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Have you heard?
Our book Healthy Hustle the newblueprint to thrive in business
and life, is available rightnow to purchase.
In Healthy Hustle, we take youthrough real world, practical
and achievable steps to move youaway from unhealthy hustle to a
place of happiness and living,whilst continuing to achieve
incredible business results.
(08:19):
Order your copy now athealthyhustlecomau.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
I'm also realizing through this conversation, when
we talk about stuck, it could bestuck in a moment in the day.
It could be a day where youfeel stuck.
It could be a week where youfeel stuck.
It could be a longer term.
The longer term is where westart to lead into burnout or
negative, which leads to chronicstress space.
But it could also just be inthe moments because, even as
(08:45):
you're sharing this and, likeyou said, there's been a big
week behind the scenes.
Oh man, I was definitely thereon Monday.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
And you were like whoa, your energy Okay, Yep.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Let's just go get some stuff done shall we.
And that was a day where now Ilook back and go.
It's exactly like you saidaround.
Is it the best thing to pushthrough and take action?
Sometimes it is, but sometimesit's better to pull back and
step into that space of being,of what do I actually need?
To just take care of my worldright now.
(09:14):
You know it could be I justneed to actually introvert and
not have any meetings or talk toanybody and re-energize.
Or it could be I need to go tothe gym or go for a walk or pat
the dogs or have some micromoments or take the day off.
Sometimes we can't do that, butwhat can I do within my circle
of control and influence rightnow if I'm feeling stuck and
(09:35):
stuck doesn't have to beperpetually stuck it could be in
the moment, it could be thelong term, really important
perspective.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
I think about that decision for us to push back a
meeting to the next day when wewere fresh was such a wise
choice because the energy thatwe would have brought to that
meeting on that day would haveprobably just spiraled us more
into being stuck.
Absolutely so true.
It's hard to see in the moment,isn't it?
Yeah, and I think that's I mean,we are very lucky and fortunate
(10:04):
to have each other, to be ableto work together and have one of
us pick up the other one onthat and make the suggestions.
But I guess you know how do youtranslate this into your own
business?
Or, if you're in a career, youknow, as a leader, how do you
translate it into the workplace.
Because sometimes that feelslike a challenging conversation
to be really open and raw andhonest with your manager or with
(10:25):
your team about where you're at.
And I guess what we're sayingin this conversation is, if the
ultimate outcome is to peakperformance, to be operating
highly effectively, we have toactually acknowledge where we
are and then work out what do weneed to do in order to get us
(10:46):
out of this space.
And I think for us it was theright call.
Just can't just move themeeting to a day where it's a
fresh start and not that wedidn't do other things, because
there was a lot of other thingsto do, but it was just like
let's just take the time to dowhat's required as opposed to
trying to rush, rush, rush, rush, rush.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
And that's where return on effort comes into play
.
So definitely, you know, thisis just such a great example
because the meeting togetherwould not have been the best use
of time, whereas the behind thescenes productivity I imagine
for you as well, for me I waslike right, I've got through so
much because, again, it's adifferent energy.
Now, if you're a business owneror a leader who can impact this
kind of change or make thesedecisions in the business, we
(11:27):
really want you to think aboutare you creating this
environment for your team to beable to have these open
conversations?
And we totally get it.
Sometimes you can't move ameeting.
We were fortunate it was aninternal meeting, we had the
flexibility.
So if you can't move a meeting,if you can't actually refocus
that attention on a differenttask that better suits the
(11:47):
energy for that time, nessa, arethere any tips of what people
could do in that instance?
Because we also appreciatethat's the reality even for
business owners and leaders.
Sometimes we can't do that.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Absolutely Well.
I think it's about having theability to take a micro moment
before you get there, so itcould be just whatever it is for
you deep breathing, boxbreathing, walk outside, touch a
tree, step on the grass, justsomething to ground you so that
it's almost like a circuitbreaker between this buzz in
your mind and, depending on whoyou're meeting with, have some
(12:20):
honesty around where you're at.
So I think that's reallyimportant as well.
So got lots going on.
How could I be best supported,or what do I need to do in order
to be present and also knowwhat it is I've agreed to, and
especially because meetingsoften end up in more work, right
?
So being honest about whatyou're capable of doing.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
So I love that thought around the circuit
breaker what's a circuit breaker?
And then the open andtransparent communication,
because I also think the otherthing that can happen when we're
in this stuck space is thespiral thinking.
So then the spiral thinkinghappens, we start to get down on
ourselves, or there can be thisalmost mark, like it plays out
in so many different ways.
(13:00):
It could be martyrdom.
It could be why is it always me, why do I always have to do?
It could be martyrdom.
It could be.
Why is it always me, why do Ialways have to do?
It could be resentment.
It could be just sad, likethere's a whole bunch of
emotions that can come up andthen we attach stories to it,
and so that stories and thedeeper we go in the stories is
spiral thinking and remember,when we're in a stuck state
we're not in a resourcefulmindset energy state, so the
(13:23):
more you can actually, I think,connect and find that circuit
breaker a really cool song thatyou love is a good one.
You know, the circuit breakerand open communication are two
things you can always control,regardless of the external
situation.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
So then, if we look at, what's the difference, Nicky
between being stuck and thenmoving into ineffective, so when
we're stuck, ineffective isreally it's almost like we can
go too far the other way.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
So, you know, we take a lot of action, we get in the
overwhelm.
But ineffective is where weactually maybe do too much navel
gazing.
We're all over the self-care,we're all over the breaks, we're
all over the creating space,which is amazing, but perhaps
we're not taking action.
And again, there's multiplereasons as to why there's not
the balance of action.
(14:10):
So there's this focus on spaceand grace and being Like on
holidays, we're being Great.
That's appropriate.
We want that.
We don't.
You know, the action or thedoing should not be about the
business, but when we're in thebusiness and we really want to
find that place of momentum, ithas to be the balance.
So I see ineffective, or in ourmodel, the ineffective is we've
(14:30):
gone too far the other way andit could be that we're so
exhausted and tired we don'thave energy to take any more
action.
It could be that we've justcome back from holidays.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
It could be a whole bunch of different reasons.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
It could be that you know we're coming off feeling
stuck yesterday, but it's allthe yeah, I hope that makes
sense.
It's all the reflection, youknow, the time, taking time to
do things, but without action,without action of that will move
the dial.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
That's right, and to me it's sort of that
unresourceful thinking around.
What's wrong with me?
Why am I the only person in theworld who can't get this?
And so that again spiralthinking comes into play.
Right, totally.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
And I guess, overthinking on mindset.
That's right, yeah, that'sright.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
So there's.
So I've got to shift somethinginternally.
I mean, the focus is all inwardrather than outward, because
really it's about like you saidit's.
It's, yes, we need to find thatbalance so that we can take
action as well.
But sometimes we get caught inthe whirlpool if we don't stop
and have downtime, quiet time,reflection time, because I think
, oh, I love the whirlpool.
(15:38):
I'm thinking of when I was akid, that's right, I think my
brother used to do that in thepool.
Oh my gosh, I did that all thetime.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Last year when we were at Byron Bay, jules and I
just the two of us we had one ofthose tiny little plunge pools.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
I was on my own doing a whirlpool.
Jules wasn't even gettinginvolved in it.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
I was like crazy person on my own and it worked.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah, whirlwinds and whirlpools I think everybody can
relate to, because what thatfeels like is just spinning.
You're spinning your wheels andyou're not actually getting
anywhere.
So it's probably more than youknow when you're stuck and I
talk about doing emails or stuffthat you know doesn't move the
dial this could be things whereyou're constantly moving,
constantly taking action.
There's no sort of breaks inbetween the action you're taking
(16:18):
, but it still feels like you'renot progressing and perhaps
you're actually not shifting thedial in the areas that matter
the most.
Sure, you're getting a lot ofthings ticked off your list and
I remember when I used to dolists in my corporate career, it
would be a list of brain dumpsand then I just worked through
the list to do the quickest one,not the one that's most
meaningful.
So no wonder I felt at the endof a lot of days that I feel
(16:39):
like I've walked in the door,been here for eight hours and I
haven't been productive, becauseit's all the things that aren't
actually moving the dial, butthere's no reflection or
downtime on that.
To say, hey, hang on, is whatI'm working on, really making a
difference and getting me towhere I want to be.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Does that make sense?
Yeah, it makes perfect sense.
Definitely, tasks for the sakeof tasks, that whole sense of
accomplishment for sure.
So, ness, we want to move awayfrom being stuck, we want to
move away from the whirlwind orthe whirlpool, and we want to
move away from ineffective.
What's the ultimate?
Speaker 2 (17:12):
goal here?
Well, the healthy hustleversion of it is momentum.
So this is around finding theflow, striking that balance
between taking action andstaying grounded, so there's
enough downtime that you canhandle the challenges with ease,
so that this spiral thinkingdoesn't become the first
response, your tasks that youare working on actually
(17:33):
meaningful and moving you closerto where you want to go.
And so I think that there's somuch around the way you set
yourself up to succeed.
That's important here, and I'mnot suggesting that this is a
done and forget.
You know, like, oh, I'm inmomentum and this is how I'm
going to be forever, becausethere are peaks and troughs,
like we just opened up with.
You know, this week's a bitcrazy, so I'm finding myself
(17:55):
jumping around all over theplace with this model.
But the benefit of having themodel in front of you is, or you
know, in your mind, is toacknowledge where you are and
then work out how to move fromthat.
Is it the action taking or isit the space and grace?
And maybe that could be a goodwrap up point and a good
actionable action for the next24 hours.
(18:15):
What do you reckon?
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yeah, I love that.
Let's keep it really simple.
If you resonated with maybe alittle bit more of the space and
grace, the navel gazing the somuch too much focus on mindset.
That's important.
We talk about that a lot.
The woe is me, the why.
What's wrong with me?
Maybe it's about taking someaction.
Just do one thing and if you'rein the whirlwind or the
whirlpool, think about how can Icreate a little point of space
(18:38):
in my day?
Maybe it's a micro moment.
So look at which end of thespectrum you're on.
Take one schedule, one thingfrom the other side, either
doing or being Great, actionableaction for the week.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Thanks so much for joining us everybody.
See you next time.
Thanks for listening to today'sep.
If you loved what you heard,connect with us over on LinkedIn
and let's continue theconversation over there.
Did you hear?
You can now buy our bookHealthy Hustle the new blueprint
to thrive in business and life,at healthyhustlecomau.
(19:11):
Want us to speak to your teamor run a workshop on healthy
hustle in your workplace?
Send us an email, or go oldschool and give us a call to
discuss.
Until next time, happylistening and here's to thriving
in business and life.
Welcome to the Smart Business Growth Podcast with
Nickyand.
Ness.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
We would like to acknowledge the traditional
custodians of country, theTurrbal and Bunurong people of
Brisbane and Melbournerespectively, where Nicky and I
both work and live, both workand live.
It seems to be something outthere in the world, in the
universe, where people areconstantly talking about how
(00:33):
busy they are.
Ask any business owner or youknow somebody who's working in a
bigger organization around theworkload.
In fact, I have found myselffeeling that this week, in the
week of us publishing our bookand getting to the post office
and sending stuff off andwriting on cards and signing
books on top of our normalworkload, it has actually felt
(00:56):
quite hectic and I really thinkabout we talk about it in the
book some of the stats that youfound in relation to this whole
concept about people are busyand yet 88% of working people
procrastinate on a daily basis.
I so can relate to that.
There are times where I feellike my workload is so
(01:17):
overwhelming that I probablyspend half an hour just looking
at emails, because that feelseasy, right?
Just looking at emails, becausethat feels easy, right.
Which leads us into the nextstat, which is the average
worker spends 51% of every dayon low to no value tasks.
Now that's not saying therearen't important emails in there
to be looking at, but for me, Iknow that I come back to that.
I come back to what I know isnot productive in order to
(01:42):
handle looking at what has tohappen.
And so that's for me, where Ifind I say myself and to people
around me that I feel reallybusy at the moment.
I'm working longer hours thannormal and that whole get caught
up into that whirlwind ofeither taking a lot of action
but not really valuable action,or actually just sitting back
(02:03):
going oh, I can't do this.
So do you relate to that aswell, nick?
Is that something that I don'tknow?
Maybe you in the past?
Maybe?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
you're a shining example of how to fix this and
you're laughing, so I gather not.
I don't think it's fixablebecause it's kind of a way of
the working world and I amgiggling here in the corner, in
the corner at the desk becauseof a few different reasons, one
being I feel like in the lastdecade I've been on this mission
not only to redefine hustleculture in a healthy way, also
(02:37):
to ban the B word, because Iremember actually probably
almost even 10 years ago, atleast five years ago, I feel
like every conversation was howare you today Busy?
What's going on with you Busy?
And I had this approach Ibanned the B word.
None of my clients, none of myteam, are allowed to say the
word busy because it doesn't addvalue and the reality is we are
(03:00):
busy, so we can ban the B word.
I think that's important interms of our beliefs and our
mindset and what we focus on.
It doesn't change the fact thatwe're not busy.
Just like you said, there'sgoing to be projects or things
that we're working on, orunexpected aspects of life are
thrown at us and then all of asudden, our workload increases.
So reality is we are busy andit's about how do we sort of
(03:23):
move through that I also.
What comes to mind is theStephen Covey's time management
grid when you're talking about.
I'll just jump in and do someemails because it feels good, it
feels safe, it feels easy andit can actually still feel kind
of productive, even though, likeyou said, 51% of people are
spending time on low to no valuetasks.
But we get this false sense ofaccomplishment and Stephen
(03:43):
Covey's time management grid one.
But we get this false sense ofaccomplishment and Stephen
Covey's time management grid oneof the quadrants.
Is that not important, noturgent?
Whenever I take people throughthat, why would you have that
quadrant?
Well, sometimes we need it andsometimes it's resourceful and
sometimes it's unresourceful.
So if there's anyone thatdoesn't resonate with this
conversation or have actuallyfound the fix, reach out to us,
(04:06):
let us know, because I don'tknow if we can fix it.
I think it's about theevolution of how we flow with it
and we're humans.
It's that whole piece we arenot robots which is more
relevant to remember now thesedays than ever, and we're human,
so some days it's going to feelharder to handle Ness.
I wonder if, looking at thisfrom a perspective of like we
(04:26):
need to fix this versus whatwe're going to share today
around.
Well, what's a maybe moreresourceful frame to look at it
through, because sometimes Ithink we can fall into all or
nothing?
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah, oh, a hundred percent, and usually I can tell
the state of my mind by thestate of my surroundings, and so
I used to pat myself on theback when I was aware or more
self-aware, especially in theearly days of my business.
My previous business was wellgood on me because I know I'm
procrastinating, but look at allthe good work I've done by
(04:57):
decluttering and therefore go me.
If you're going to do somethingunresourceful or sorry, not
unresourceful that is aresourceful way of
procrastinating.
But you're going toprocrastinate, make it
worthwhile.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Yeah, it should be my belief, but now it's great it
feels good, but did it help getthose sales recruit that team
member, like whatever those youknow wildly important goals are?
But sometimes we do need thatas well.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
I think so, and this is where our do-be model comes
into play.
I think, because if we look atthe difference between
action-taking, so we can takeaction, but clearly sometimes
not in the right area or notwith the right focus, because
it's just like checking theemails or tidying up your desk.
You know what I mean.
Or you can be looking at the.
(05:44):
You know the space and thegrace, the part that allows us
to nurture ourselves and stepback from what we're doing and
stop doing in order to figureout what's actually going on for
me right now, what are mybeliefs, what is my mindset in
relation to this.
So I think, when the actiontaking and the space and grace
are both low, that's wherepeople feel stuck, and I believe
(06:07):
busy probably sits more in theaction taking side than the
space and grace side.
So if we think of feeling stuck,you know some of the things
that I would describe that as isfeeling frozen, like really
unable to take action becausethe overwhelm is too large.
You just got so much going on,you don't know where to start
(06:30):
and you feel like this busyness,like the clutter on my desk or
the clutter in my mind or theclutter on my screen.
You know all the tabs are open.
It's suffocating, and so,rather than doing anything like
I, think of days and we talkedabout this in the past where it
was probably just better for meto take a day off and regroup,
(06:50):
rather than sitting at acomputer for seven hours and
feeling like I've achievednothing because I was too stuck.
So I think that that canactually be a place where we
start to talk about I'm so busy,because it makes us feel like
there's an excuse for not doinganything, for being stuck,
(07:11):
because look at what's going onaround me, look what I have to
achieve, even though I'm reallyI'm struggling.
But that's not an okay thing totell people, right, especially
the old hey, how are you doing?
Good thanks.
If you're going like what'sgoing on for you Busy, oh, okay,
then I'll leave you alone or Iwon't probe anymore, whereas I
think the real conversation isactually, I feel, really stuck
(07:33):
right now and I need some helpwith that, but I don't think
that's the go-to answer for alot of people.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah, and I think even just share like it's a
better quality connection andconversation if you share a
little bit more about what'sgoing on for you.
So it could be I need some help.
It could just be things feelchaotic right now.
You know like it paints abetter, not better picture, a
more accurate picture.
So people know what's going onfor you.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
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(08:19):
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Speaker 1 (08:23):
I'm also realizing through this conversation, when
we talk about stuck, it could bestuck in a moment in the day.
It could be a day where youfeel stuck.
It could be a week where youfeel stuck.
It could be a longer term.
The longer term is where westart to lead into burnout or
negative, which leads to chronicstress space.
But it could also just be inthe moments because, even as
(08:45):
you're sharing this and, likeyou said, there's been a big
week behind the scenes.
Oh man, I was definitely thereon Monday.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
And you were like whoa, your energy Okay, Yep.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Let's just go get some stuff done shall we.
And that was a day where now Ilook back and go.
It's exactly like you saidaround.
Is it the best thing to pushthrough and take action?
Sometimes it is, but sometimesit's better to pull back and
step into that space of being,of what do I actually need?
To just take care of my worldright now.
(09:14):
You know it could be I justneed to actually introvert and
not have any meetings or talk toanybody and re-energize.
Or it could be I need to go tothe gym or go for a walk or pat
the dogs or have some micromoments or take the day off.
Sometimes we can't do that, butwhat can I do within my circle
of control and influence rightnow if I'm feeling stuck and
(09:35):
stuck doesn't have to beperpetually stuck it could be in
the moment, it could be thelong term, really important
perspective.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
I think about that decision for us to push back a
meeting to the next day when wewere fresh was such a wise
choice because the energy thatwe would have brought to that
meeting on that day would haveprobably just spiraled us more
into being stuck.
Absolutely so true.
It's hard to see in the moment,isn't it?
Yeah, and I think that's I mean,we are very lucky and fortunate
(10:04):
to have each other, to be ableto work together and have one of
us pick up the other one onthat and make the suggestions.
But I guess you know how do youtranslate this into your own
business?
Or, if you're in a career, youknow, as a leader, how do you
translate it into the workplace.
Because sometimes that feelslike a challenging conversation
to be really open and raw andhonest with your manager or with
(10:25):
your team about where you're at.
And I guess what we're sayingin this conversation is, if the
ultimate outcome is to peakperformance, to be operating
highly effectively, we have toactually acknowledge where we
are and then work out what do weneed to do in order to get us
(10:46):
out of this space.
And I think for us it was theright call.
Just can't just move themeeting to a day where it's a
fresh start and not that wedidn't do other things, because
there was a lot of other thingsto do, but it was just like
let's just take the time to dowhat's required as opposed to
trying to rush, rush, rush, rush, rush.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
And that's where return on effort comes into play
.
So definitely, you know, thisis just such a great example
because the meeting togetherwould not have been the best use
of time, whereas the behind thescenes productivity I imagine
for you as well, for me I waslike right, I've got through so
much because, again, it's adifferent energy.
Now, if you're a business owneror a leader who can impact this
kind of change or make thesedecisions in the business, we
(11:27):
really want you to think aboutare you creating this
environment for your team to beable to have these open
conversations?
And we totally get it.
Sometimes you can't move ameeting.
We were fortunate it was aninternal meeting, we had the
flexibility.
So if you can't move a meeting,if you can't actually refocus
that attention on a differenttask that better suits the
(11:47):
energy for that time, nessa, arethere any tips of what people
could do in that instance?
Because we also appreciatethat's the reality even for
business owners and leaders.
Sometimes we can't do that.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Absolutely Well.
I think it's about having theability to take a micro moment
before you get there, so itcould be just whatever it is for
you deep breathing, boxbreathing, walk outside, touch a
tree, step on the grass, justsomething to ground you so that
it's almost like a circuitbreaker between this buzz in
your mind and, depending on whoyou're meeting with, have some
(12:20):
honesty around where you're at.
So I think that's reallyimportant as well.
So got lots going on.
How could I be best supported,or what do I need to do in order
to be present and also knowwhat it is I've agreed to, and
especially because meetingsoften end up in more work, right
?
So being honest about whatyou're capable of doing.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
So I love that thought around the circuit
breaker what's a circuit breaker?
And then the open andtransparent communication,
because I also think the otherthing that can happen when we're
in this stuck space is thespiral thinking.
So then the spiral thinkinghappens, we start to get down on
ourselves, or there can be thisalmost mark, like it plays out
in so many different ways.
(13:00):
It could be martyrdom.
It could be why is it always me, why do I always have to do?
It could be martyrdom.
It could be.
Why is it always me, why do Ialways have to do?
It could be resentment.
It could be just sad, likethere's a whole bunch of
emotions that can come up andthen we attach stories to it,
and so that stories and thedeeper we go in the stories is
spiral thinking and remember,when we're in a stuck state
we're not in a resourcefulmindset energy state, so the
(13:23):
more you can actually, I think,connect and find that circuit
breaker a really cool song thatyou love is a good one.
You know, the circuit breakerand open communication are two
things you can always control,regardless of the external
situation.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
So then, if we look at, what's the difference, Nicky
between being stuck and thenmoving into ineffective, so when
we're stuck, ineffective isreally it's almost like we can
go too far the other way.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
So, you know, we take a lot of action, we get in the
overwhelm.
But ineffective is where weactually maybe do too much navel
gazing.
We're all over the self-care,we're all over the breaks, we're
all over the creating space,which is amazing, but perhaps
we're not taking action.
And again, there's multiplereasons as to why there's not
the balance of action.
(14:10):
So there's this focus on spaceand grace and being Like on
holidays, we're being Great.
That's appropriate.
We want that.
We don't.
You know, the action or thedoing should not be about the
business, but when we're in thebusiness and we really want to
find that place of momentum, ithas to be the balance.
So I see ineffective, or in ourmodel, the ineffective is we've
(14:30):
gone too far the other way andit could be that we're so
exhausted and tired we don'thave energy to take any more
action.
It could be that we've justcome back from holidays.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
It could be a whole bunch of different reasons.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
It could be that you know we're coming off feeling
stuck yesterday, but it's allthe yeah, I hope that makes
sense.
It's all the reflection, youknow, the time, taking time to
do things, but without action,without action of that will move
the dial.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
That's right, and to me it's sort of that
unresourceful thinking around.
What's wrong with me?
Why am I the only person in theworld who can't get this?
And so that again spiralthinking comes into play.
Right, totally.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
And I guess, overthinking on mindset.
That's right, yeah, that'sright.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
So there's.
So I've got to shift somethinginternally.
I mean, the focus is all inwardrather than outward, because
really it's about like you saidit's.
It's, yes, we need to find thatbalance so that we can take
action as well.
But sometimes we get caught inthe whirlpool if we don't stop
and have downtime, quiet time,reflection time, because I think
, oh, I love the whirlpool.
(15:38):
I'm thinking of when I was akid, that's right, I think my
brother used to do that in thepool.
Oh my gosh, I did that all thetime.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Last year when we were at Byron Bay, jules and I
just the two of us we had one ofthose tiny little plunge pools.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
I was on my own doing a whirlpool.
Jules wasn't even gettinginvolved in it.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
I was like crazy person on my own and it worked.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah, whirlwinds and whirlpools I think everybody can
relate to, because what thatfeels like is just spinning.
You're spinning your wheels andyou're not actually getting
anywhere.
So it's probably more than youknow when you're stuck and I
talk about doing emails or stuffthat you know doesn't move the
dial this could be things whereyou're constantly moving,
constantly taking action.
There's no sort of breaks inbetween the action you're taking
(16:18):
, but it still feels like you'renot progressing and perhaps
you're actually not shifting thedial in the areas that matter
the most.
Sure, you're getting a lot ofthings ticked off your list and
I remember when I used to dolists in my corporate career, it
would be a list of brain dumpsand then I just worked through
the list to do the quickest one,not the one that's most
meaningful.
So no wonder I felt at the endof a lot of days that I feel
(16:39):
like I've walked in the door,been here for eight hours and I
haven't been productive, becauseit's all the things that aren't
actually moving the dial, butthere's no reflection or
downtime on that.
To say, hey, hang on, is whatI'm working on, really making a
difference and getting me towhere I want to be.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Does that make sense?
Yeah, it makes perfect sense.
Definitely, tasks for the sakeof tasks, that whole sense of
accomplishment for sure.
So, ness, we want to move awayfrom being stuck, we want to
move away from the whirlwind orthe whirlpool, and we want to
move away from ineffective.
What's the ultimate?
Speaker 2 (17:12):
goal here?
Well, the healthy hustleversion of it is momentum.
So this is around finding theflow, striking that balance
between taking action andstaying grounded, so there's
enough downtime that you canhandle the challenges with ease,
so that this spiral thinkingdoesn't become the first
response, your tasks that youare working on actually
(17:33):
meaningful and moving you closerto where you want to go.
And so I think that there's somuch around the way you set
yourself up to succeed.
That's important here, and I'mnot suggesting that this is a
done and forget.
You know, like, oh, I'm inmomentum and this is how I'm
going to be forever, becausethere are peaks and troughs,
like we just opened up with.
You know, this week's a bitcrazy, so I'm finding myself
(17:55):
jumping around all over theplace with this model.
But the benefit of having themodel in front of you is, or you
know, in your mind, is toacknowledge where you are and
then work out how to move fromthat.
Is it the action taking or isit the space and grace?
And maybe that could be a goodwrap up point and a good
actionable action for the next24 hours.
(18:15):
What do you reckon?
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yeah, I love that.
Let's keep it really simple.
If you resonated with maybe alittle bit more of the space and
grace, the navel gazing the somuch too much focus on mindset.
That's important.
We talk about that a lot.
The woe is me, the why.
What's wrong with me?
Maybe it's about taking someaction.
Just do one thing and if you'rein the whirlwind or the
whirlpool, think about how can Icreate a little point of space
(18:38):
in my day?
Maybe it's a micro moment.
So look at which end of thespectrum you're on.
Take one schedule, one thingfrom the other side, either
doing or being Great, actionableaction for the week.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Thanks so much for joining us everybody.
See you next time.
Thanks for listening to today'sep.
If you loved what you heard,connect with us over on LinkedIn
and let's continue theconversation over there.
Did you hear?
You can now buy our bookHealthy Hustle the new blueprint
to thrive in business and life,at healthyhustlecomau.
(19:11):
Want us to speak to your teamor run a workshop on healthy
hustle in your workplace?
Send us an email, or go oldschool and give us a call to
discuss.
Until next time, happylistening and here's to thriving
in business and life.
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