December 17, 2024 • 21 mins
As season two of the podcast wraps up, it’s time to reflect on the concept of taking genuine holidays as business owners. With Christmas around the corner, many of us are craving a break. But are we really disconnecting, or are we bringing work along for the ride? Join Nicky and Ness as they explore the importance of stepping away and how to truly switch off.
Episode Highlights:
- Startling statistics on how often business owners take holidays and how many never disconnect.
- Personal stories from clients who found freedom through unplugging.
- The detrimental effects of “leaveism” on mental and physical health.
- Entrepreneurial addiction and why it’s so easy to fall into.
- Strategies for fully disconnecting, like choosing places without Wi-Fi.
- Reflecting on our beliefs around work and success, and how they impact our ability to take time off.
Learn more about Nicky and Ness https://businesstogether.com.au
Buy a copy of Healthy Hustle: The New Blueprint to Thrive in Business & Life www.healthyhustle.com.au
Follow us on socials
Instagram - @b2businesstogether
Facebook - @B2BusinessTogether
Connect on LinkedIn
Nicky LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/connectwithnicky/
Ness LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/vanessamedling/
Give us a call
Nicky Miklos-Woodley 0403 191 404
Vanessa (Ness) Medling 0400 226 875
Or send us an email hello@businesstogether.com.au
Music by Jules Miklos-Woodley
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Nicky (00:04):
Welcome to the Smart Business Growth Podcast with
Nikki and.
Ness.
Ness (00:11):
We would like to acknowledge the traditional
custodians of country, theTurrbal and Bunurong people of
Brisbane and Melbournerespectively, where Nikki and I
both work and live, both workand live Well, I think, given
(00:32):
that we've come to the end ofseason two of the podcast today,
it's a fitting time for us toreflect on holidays.
We're coming up to Christmasbreak.
We have probably a lot of usreaching the end of that.
You know the draw up toChristmas as we go.
I just need a break and I'mreally curious to know just how
many business owners are takingholidays a real break, not a I'd
(00:54):
love to get this done over theholidays break, which is the
trap I fell into when I startedmy first business but an actual
turn off from everything.
Break.
Because when we were doingresearch for the book, the stats
that we found were that 43% solittle under half of small
business owners take at leastfour weeks annually, that's,
(01:16):
leave away from the business anda little over 25% two weeks or
less, and 14% don't evenremember when they took their
last holiday.
And it's interesting becausethis kind of resonates with when
I think of some of our clients,some of my colleagues out there
in the business world.
I think of Jodie, one of ourclients who had not had a
(01:39):
holiday without contact to thebusiness in years prior to
working with us.
Like she could not remember atime she didn't have to take the
phone with her, do some workwhile she was away, and then
just her joy and elation, thatfirst holiday break that she
took with no contact, not evenfrom her children, adult
children Mom, could you do this?
(02:01):
She was switched off completely, which was amazing.
And I remember Michael he was afranchise holder of a GJ Gardner
business back in Bairnsdaleamazing guy, amazing business.
But he was always taking alaptop with him.
He'd go away, sometimes on aconference, and they'd have a
holiday afterwards and they'dalways be that contact with the
(02:21):
business.
So not even a real break.
And I just think that this isso important for us to pause and
think about.
What is it for us?
Are we actually getting away?
Are we making the time and thedifference to do that?
Why do you think that mattersso much, nick?
Nicky (02:39):
Well, I mean, the thing that's coming up for me as
you're talking through this,ness, is one of the key things
is we didn't go into business tohave a like think about it a
job where we don't even get ourfour weeks annual leave a year.
So you know, if you'relistening, you're a leader, a
business owner.
I bet you anything, your team,you encourage them to take
(03:00):
holidays because there's somereally good upsides From a
business point of view.
There's good cost riskmanagement in terms of not
accruing too much annual leave,but also, when you have a
holiday, it is so good for yourphysical, mental, emotional
health.
When we don't have holidays,when we keep doing the grind, we
(03:20):
get stuck into the day-to-dayand get stuck in the busy trap.
Let's face it.
We're actually not living withoptimal energy.
We're maybe more cranky humans.
We're not as great to be around, probably not showing up in our
relationships as well as wecould, but it's really easy for
that to become the norm and wedon't even realize it.
So I think there's a fewdifferent benefits.
(03:41):
There's a business cost benefit.
There is just being a healthy,happy human benefit, and we've
talked a fair bit over the lastfew months about this
entrepreneurial addiction whenyou are not taking your holidays
or not switching off.
We know that.
Also, statistically, 77% ofbusiness owners think about
their business while still onholidays and we might think
(04:04):
about it every now and then.
But that link toentrepreneurial addiction if
you're not taking holidays andunderstanding what's driving
that and why, or if you have, ifyou're one of the 14% I think
it was that don't remember whenthe last time they took a
holiday, it might be reallyuncomfortable when you first do
because you might feel lost.
So there's that link around.
If you're feeling lost and youdon't actually know how to have
(04:25):
holidays and switch off anymore,you could be addicted to your
work, which is a fairly easytrap to fall into.
So I think there's a fewdifferent reasons there to have
a look at around.
You know, making sure, hang on.
If I'm, whatever percentage youfall into, what has actually
stopped me?
What is stopping me?
And if I am one of the 43% thatare actually taking at least
(04:49):
four weeks, am I switching off,because that's another factor.
Am I taking my?
Ness (04:52):
laptop.
That's right.
And that terminology leaveismLeaveism meaning that you're
thinking about your businesswhilst you're on holidays,
whether or even if you're sick,you're thinking about and doing
something to do with business.
So it's.
I remember my partner and I.
He loves going on cruises andone of the things that he said
to me before we went on ourcruise was there's actually no
(05:14):
mobile range you can like, youwon't be able to, or wifi must
be, must be no wifi range.
You can pay quite high amountsper day to get access to Wi-Fi
on the ship.
And it always amazes himbecause he's a very early riser
and so he'd be down havingcoffee as soon as the doors open
in the you know that area andhe would see particularly men,
(05:39):
but he would see people sittingon their laptops working and he
thinks to himself people sittingon their laptops working, and
he thinks to himself, hey, mateyou're on a holiday, like be
with your family.
You have got so many options ofthings you could be doing with
your time on a cruise, and areyou really that important?
Like he just doesn't come at itfrom that concept, Like, are you
(06:01):
just trying to stroke your egoaround?
Yeah, what it is.
Now, I don't want to take awayfrom the fact that sometimes you
know there could be really bigthings happening in the
workplace that you need to be apart of, and sometimes it does
feel like a good compromise tobe spending part of the time
with your family and then partof the time working.
But really, what we're wantingfor you to think about from this
(06:21):
conversation today is how canyou find an opportunity to take
time out where you actuallyswitch off, Because there are
benefits to that and we thinkabout in it's now law in
Australia around not being ableto contact people employees
outside of work.
That was something that camethat actually went into law as
(06:44):
you were studying andresearching for the book, wasn't
?
Nicky (06:47):
it Just in the last few months.
So the right to disconnect.
So next quick question how didyou feel about not being allowed
to take your laptop and nothaving internet range on the
cruise?
Ness (06:58):
Actually, really freeing.
Yeah, it was.
It's been like initially I go,no, I don't mind taking my
laptop, but then I went.
But my phone what no?
Instagram?
Because sometimes I associatethat with downtime and that with
fun.
So what excites me about thatis actually being fully present
(07:18):
to enjoy whatever comes up inthe moment and for us to
actually just have some timetogether without distractions of
the world.
Nicky (07:24):
So it's like going back to the old we kind of talk about
in the book, a little bit aboutthis going back to the old ways
or this slow living movement,and interesting because even it
might be not technically workbut the socials, the doom
scrolling, or you know,sometimes there's a crossover
and I think another importantpoint that was made is that if
(07:44):
you are having an intentionalwork from anywhere holiday, if
you're having an intentional, I,like you said, I want to pause
on that moment for a minute.
You know that could be different.
You might have times andholidays which is like a working
holiday, so that's great.
And are you also having timewhere you can completely switch
off?
And so many conversations Ifeel like I've had and I know my
(08:07):
goal was to have a work fromanywhere business, but also now
I'm like, yeah, but I want tohave more than four weeks
holidays because I own mybusiness.
Like this is the thing, andJodie is such a great example of
that installing a team andhelping coach them so that they
can step up, so that she canstep back.
Ness (08:24):
You know this is not a unique kind of story, so I just
had to jump in you know, this isnot a unique kind of story, so
I just had to jump in and, um,that's right, and it's always,
like you know, if you can findsomewhere that has no mobile
range, that's probably an addedbonus yeah, norfolk Island is
another good one.
Nicky (08:37):
Uh, I remember.
Ness (08:39):
I always remember when, um back in when my son was in high
school, so attached to hisphone 24 7, we went to Wahulla
for a day Wahulla's in thecountry, in Victoria and I said
to him there's no mobile rangethere.
And I remember we arrived, hegets out of the car and he's
checking his phone.
He goes mum, mum, my phone'snot working.
And I went yeah, I know I toldyou there's no mobile range.
(09:01):
And he's like yeah, but Ithought when you said no, you
meant just really bad mobilerange.
I'm like no, no, no, absolutelynone.
So sometimes that force toswitch off is quite incredible.
To have that experience, to bereally present to where you are
and what you're doing.
Nicky (09:18):
Isn't that a great example of where we are in this
modern day world as well, andwhat the younger people, the
younger generations?
But no means not much, or?
Ness (09:27):
poor quality like no actually means nothing.
Nicky (09:30):
Yeah, yeah, what?
There's still places in theworld where there's no mobile
range.
That's right.
That is a good strategy to do.
If you are finding it's reallyhard to switch off, then you can
choose places that have like acruise yeah, exactly, or
expensive, you know, as long asyou don't get sucked into paying
for the extra.
Ness (09:47):
Yeah, have you heard?
Our book Healthy Hustle the newblueprint to thriving business
and life, is available right nowto purchase.
In Healthy Hustle, we take youthrough real world, practical
and achievable steps to move youaway from unhealthy hustle to a
place of happiness and living,whilst continuing to achieve
(10:07):
incredible business results.
Order your copy now athealthyhustlecomau.
So what do you think needs tohappen if somebody's resonating
with that small percentage ofpeople?
What did we say?
It was 14%, not evenremembering when they had the
holiday or just only 25%, taking, you know, two weeks.
(10:27):
What do we need to shift withinus in order to be able to start
that change in the way that weview the importance of taking
leave?
Nicky (10:37):
Well, I think we need to first of all ask yourself
actually, here's a good one, Iwould take a holiday, but and
finish that sentence and seewhat comes up, because it's
either going to be somethingquite obvious, like I don't have
the team, or, you know, my teamaren't ready for me to step
away, or I just don't have aleader that can take over.
You know sort of the obviousones.
(10:58):
But it could also be somethinga little bit deeper, because the
first place we want to have alook at this is at what are our
beliefs telling us?
We were just guests on apodcast and had such a great
conversation this morning aboutand we talk about this a lot
those beliefs that arecontinuously embedded in us as
kids, as we grow up, around hardwork, around success.
(11:18):
It could be a belief that'ssaying, well, I'm the boss, so I
have to work the hardest, as anexample, or I don't want my
team to see that I'm slackingoff as another example.
You may resonate with that, butyou might not.
But you know, really, when youask yourself I would take
holidays, or if you takeholidays, I would switch off,
but whatever comes after thatbut is the biggest barrier and,
(11:41):
again could be really obviousstructural things.
But dig deeper.
You could even ask yourselfthat a few different times to
see it's like what else, whatelse?
Yeah, that's a really good one.
Ness (11:51):
Yeah, that belief system around who you are, and I guess
the thing that also comes to mymind is the entrepreneurial
addiction.
You know, that inability toswitch off, and you know, one of
the problems that some businessowners face when they are able
to extract themselves from thebusiness, when they do develop a
team who can do their work ontheir behalf, is that sense of
(12:15):
there's a sense of loss, almostthat ego isn't being stroked
every day because you are theperson that everyone must go to.
You know, there's an element ofmartyrdom.
I think that comes with that.
It definitely makes us feelimportant and significant when
something can't exist without us.
So, even though we might have abelief that you know, oh no, I
(12:38):
hate that.
I hate the fact thateverybody's relying on me and
I've got to be the centerpiece,but there's some safety and
comfort.
I think, within that as well,that we're fulfilling our need
for significance when somebodyneeds us to solve their problems
.
Yeah, so, having that reallyimportant and answering that
question around I would haveholidays, but I really want to
(12:58):
challenge our viewers andlisteners to think about.
You know, am I the roadblock tothis?
What is it that I'm believingabout me in the business that is
stopping me from being able totake this leave, because
everyone is deserving of it andwe know that there actually is a
problem with people whooverwork not being productive.
(13:20):
Yes, definitely, you know, likeif we're talking about the
ability to go away, what I loveabout being away from everything
is you get to be creative.
Yeah, maybe you get bored ormaybe you seek adventure and you
have so much going on that itsparks ideas, it rejuvenates us,
it gets us back into that spaceof being innovative and you
(13:43):
know, thinking of all these waysthat we can enjoy our life, but
then we can bring that newly.
I guess it's the renewed what'swhat I'm looking for.
It's like this vigour thatcomes back into the business
with fresh eyes and feelingrested.
Nicky (13:58):
And it's really hard to see that we're not in that place
when we're stuck in that busytrap and we're not taking
holidays, but we feel likethings are working okay.
It's like when you do step back, sometimes in hindsight it's
like, wow, okay, yeah, I reallyneeded a holiday.
I really needed a break beforethat, and I think a barrier can
also be that whole like if, whoam I if I'm not that person
(14:19):
that's constantly needed?
Who am I if I'm not the personthat steps in and saves the
world?
Ie solves all the problems.
So another really good thingthat you can do is actually it's
about replacing it.
So, if you're not doing so, ifyou go on a cruise, do something
where you're actually fillingthat time with something else
that's a little bit moreresourceful.
And another key element of thisis see to believe.
(14:42):
So who do you know around youthat has a successful business
that are taking four weeksminimum?
Guys, if you're a businessowner, four weeks minimum.
If you're a leader, make sureyou're taking all of the leave
that you have, but who aroundyou is doing it and doing it
well?
And this is an opportunity toreconnect to what you enjoy,
what you love, what's fun, andthat's different for different
(15:02):
people.
So get curious and explore,like you said, ness, and we too
often avoid the boredom, but theboredom is magical, because
that's where creativity comes.
That's why kids get so creative, isn't it?
Ness (15:13):
Yeah, for sure, and I think the other thing that comes
up as we're talking about thisfor me is we think about the
culture in a business.
So have you got a culture thatyou know you have perpetuated
yourself as a business owner, oryou're ingrained in somewhere
where you get a badge of honourfor being the person who is
(15:35):
never taking holidays becauseyou're always available, you're
always there?
No, no, I'll work throughChristmas and I'll work through
Easter and I'll do that.
It's the culture around.
We work long hours, you know.
What we know from the book isanything after 50 hours a week.
You're actually no longer beingproductive.
Nicky (15:54):
I know I can believe that stuff.
Ness (15:55):
I mean I could, but yeah, so if you are someone who
resonates with working reallylong hours, it's probably going
to be harder for you to takethat break away, because you
have potentially created anenvironment where people are
over-reliant on you, becauseyou're setting the way for them,
and so, even though you mayreally, really want to be able
(16:18):
to disconnect from the workplace, you could have created an
environment where that's notpossible, and I think that if
that's the case, what's yourplan?
What's your plan to worktowards, to building your
leaders up, to being able tocover in your absence?
You know, the thing I alwayslove talking about with business
owners is let's plan for you tosell the business, whether you
(16:41):
sell it or not, because thedecisions that you will make in
setting up a business to be soldare going to have to mean you
step away, because no one'sgoing to want to buy a business
where you've got to work 80hours a week and you never have
a holiday.
Nicky (16:54):
Where's the value?
Ness (16:56):
in that, oh my gosh totally.
Nicky (16:59):
I mean again.
I just go even the 25% that aretaking two weeks or less.
We get more when we areemployed.
We get more holidays and moresupport.
Not necessarily well, I don'tknow if we get more support, but
we actually take holidays.
This one precious life we'llcome back to this one precious
life that we have.
Is it just to work hard andgrind?
(17:22):
oh, there's got to be more to itabsolutely yeah what do you
think is an actionable actionthat our listeners can you know
who are really thinking aboutthis?
What can they do with thisinformation other than book a
holiday?
Yeah, I was gonna say going tosay one book some time off, even
if it's a day, even if it's aday whatever like, just book
some time off.
Ness (17:43):
And you know, you know, my belief used to be unless I had
somewhere to go, there's nopoint in taking time off.
Yes, I've struggled with this,but then last year I booked a
week off around my birthday andit was spring and I just had a
week at home and I potted and Idecluttered and I did little
jobs and I really actually quiteenjoyed that.
So I had to break my beliefpattern around you've got to
(18:07):
actually be going somewhere tohave a holiday.
So I guess, in light of that,my actionable action is coming
back to one of the things wetalk about in the book called
outrageous opposites.
So if we have, you know I wouldhave a holiday, but and we've
come up with all our list ofthings as to why we can't what
would be the completelyoutrageous part of that?
(18:30):
The other side, the flip side,right?
So, for example, if it'sbecause I need to be available
to my team all the time, wouldthe outrageous opposite of that
be I'm going to take six weeksaway from the business and then
if you go, wow, what would Ihave to do to end up with six
weeks out of the business?
What structure or systems wouldneed to be in place for me to
(18:53):
do that.
So I really want to challengeyour thinking.
If you are not in thatpercentage that are taking a
minimum of four weeks, let's getreally, really clear on what
the block is.
And then just the startingpoint would be to flip it and go
what would be the completelyoutrageous part of that?
And then really sit there andgo well, how would I plan that
(19:14):
out?
Because if you go six weeks inyour mind you can bring that
back to four.
Nicky (19:20):
Yeah, does that make sense?
I feel like new rule allbusiness owners, minimum six
weeks annual leave, which isgoing to create some interesting
feelings for people listening.
It absolutely makes sense.
So write down what the barrierswere through.
I would X, y, z, but, or Iwould switch off, but, and then
what's?
The outrageous opposite.
(19:40):
Don't get too caught up on butit's not, it can't happen.
Just write it down and then youcan start to get curious and
creative about how to make ithappen.
And I do think also look atyour calendar.
If you don't have any holidaysor days off in the next three
months, six months this isactually the perfect time of
year.
So Ness and I, at this time ofyear, in December or sometimes
(20:02):
even in November, we'll blockout our 12 months of holidays
for the next year.
Now, some of it might change.
That's fine, we'll change it,but there's something about
having it in the calendar.
So even if you are just puttingan extra day somewhere, if
that's a stretch for you, putsomething in your calendar as
well.
Ness (20:18):
Gonna pop that as a bonus one and if you are taking
holidays over Christmas and somebusinesses do that's their peak
period, so you're having itelsewhere.
We just want to say have abeautiful break, enjoy the
healthiness of being able tostep away and just refill your
cup and spend time with lovedones, and we are excited to be
(20:38):
back in your listening earsagain for season three next year
.
Nicky (20:42):
Oh, who can believe we're here?
Have a beautiful holiday,everybody, and see you next year
.
Okay, bye.
Ness (20:49):
Thanks for listening to today's ep.
If you loved what you heard,connect with us over on LinkedIn
and let's continue theconversation over there.
Did you hear?
You can now buy our bookHealthy Hustle the new blueprint
to thrive in business and lifeat healthyhustlecomau.
Want us to speak to your teamor run a workshop on healthy
(21:10):
hustle in your workplace?
Send us an email, or go oldschool and give us a call to
discuss.
Until next time, happylistening and here's to thriving
in business and life in yourworkplace.
Send us an email or go oldschool and give us a call to
discuss.
Until next time, happylistening and here's to thriving
in business and life.
Welcome to the Smart Business Growth Podcast with
Nikki and.
Ness.
Ness (00:11):
We would like to acknowledge the traditional
custodians of country, theTurrbal and Bunurong people of
Brisbane and Melbournerespectively, where Nikki and I
both work and live, both workand live Well, I think, given
(00:32):
that we've come to the end ofseason two of the podcast today,
it's a fitting time for us toreflect on holidays.
We're coming up to Christmasbreak.
We have probably a lot of usreaching the end of that.
You know the draw up toChristmas as we go.
I just need a break and I'mreally curious to know just how
many business owners are takingholidays a real break, not a I'd
(00:54):
love to get this done over theholidays break, which is the
trap I fell into when I startedmy first business but an actual
turn off from everything.
Break.
Because when we were doingresearch for the book, the stats
that we found were that 43% solittle under half of small
business owners take at leastfour weeks annually, that's,
(01:16):
leave away from the business anda little over 25% two weeks or
less, and 14% don't evenremember when they took their
last holiday.
And it's interesting becausethis kind of resonates with when
I think of some of our clients,some of my colleagues out there
in the business world.
I think of Jodie, one of ourclients who had not had a
(01:39):
holiday without contact to thebusiness in years prior to
working with us.
Like she could not remember atime she didn't have to take the
phone with her, do some workwhile she was away, and then
just her joy and elation, thatfirst holiday break that she
took with no contact, not evenfrom her children, adult
children Mom, could you do this?
(02:01):
She was switched off completely, which was amazing.
And I remember Michael he was afranchise holder of a GJ Gardner
business back in Bairnsdaleamazing guy, amazing business.
But he was always taking alaptop with him.
He'd go away, sometimes on aconference, and they'd have a
holiday afterwards and they'dalways be that contact with the
(02:21):
business.
So not even a real break.
And I just think that this isso important for us to pause and
think about.
What is it for us?
Are we actually getting away?
Are we making the time and thedifference to do that?
Why do you think that mattersso much, nick?
Nicky (02:39):
Well, I mean, the thing that's coming up for me as
you're talking through this,ness, is one of the key things
is we didn't go into business tohave a like think about it a
job where we don't even get ourfour weeks annual leave a year.
So you know, if you'relistening, you're a leader, a
business owner.
I bet you anything, your team,you encourage them to take
(03:00):
holidays because there's somereally good upsides From a
business point of view.
There's good cost riskmanagement in terms of not
accruing too much annual leave,but also, when you have a
holiday, it is so good for yourphysical, mental, emotional
health.
When we don't have holidays,when we keep doing the grind, we
(03:20):
get stuck into the day-to-dayand get stuck in the busy trap.
Let's face it.
We're actually not living withoptimal energy.
We're maybe more cranky humans.
We're not as great to be around, probably not showing up in our
relationships as well as wecould, but it's really easy for
that to become the norm and wedon't even realize it.
So I think there's a fewdifferent benefits.
(03:41):
There's a business cost benefit.
There is just being a healthy,happy human benefit, and we've
talked a fair bit over the lastfew months about this
entrepreneurial addiction whenyou are not taking your holidays
or not switching off.
We know that.
Also, statistically, 77% ofbusiness owners think about
their business while still onholidays and we might think
(04:04):
about it every now and then.
But that link toentrepreneurial addiction if
you're not taking holidays andunderstanding what's driving
that and why, or if you have, ifyou're one of the 14% I think
it was that don't remember whenthe last time they took a
holiday, it might be reallyuncomfortable when you first do
because you might feel lost.
So there's that link around.
If you're feeling lost and youdon't actually know how to have
(04:25):
holidays and switch off anymore,you could be addicted to your
work, which is a fairly easytrap to fall into.
So I think there's a fewdifferent reasons there to have
a look at around.
You know, making sure, hang on.
If I'm, whatever percentage youfall into, what has actually
stopped me?
What is stopping me?
And if I am one of the 43% thatare actually taking at least
(04:49):
four weeks, am I switching off,because that's another factor.
Am I taking my?
Ness (04:52):
laptop.
That's right.
And that terminology leaveismLeaveism meaning that you're
thinking about your businesswhilst you're on holidays,
whether or even if you're sick,you're thinking about and doing
something to do with business.
So it's.
I remember my partner and I.
He loves going on cruises andone of the things that he said
to me before we went on ourcruise was there's actually no
(05:14):
mobile range you can like, youwon't be able to, or wifi must
be, must be no wifi range.
You can pay quite high amountsper day to get access to Wi-Fi
on the ship.
And it always amazes himbecause he's a very early riser
and so he'd be down havingcoffee as soon as the doors open
in the you know that area andhe would see particularly men,
(05:39):
but he would see people sittingon their laptops working and he
thinks to himself people sittingon their laptops working, and
he thinks to himself, hey, mateyou're on a holiday, like be
with your family.
You have got so many options ofthings you could be doing with
your time on a cruise, and areyou really that important?
Like he just doesn't come at itfrom that concept, Like, are you
(06:01):
just trying to stroke your egoaround?
Yeah, what it is.
Now, I don't want to take awayfrom the fact that sometimes you
know there could be really bigthings happening in the
workplace that you need to be apart of, and sometimes it does
feel like a good compromise tobe spending part of the time
with your family and then partof the time working.
But really, what we're wantingfor you to think about from this
(06:21):
conversation today is how canyou find an opportunity to take
time out where you actuallyswitch off, Because there are
benefits to that and we thinkabout in it's now law in
Australia around not being ableto contact people employees
outside of work.
That was something that camethat actually went into law as
(06:44):
you were studying andresearching for the book, wasn't
?
Nicky (06:47):
it Just in the last few months.
So the right to disconnect.
So next quick question how didyou feel about not being allowed
to take your laptop and nothaving internet range on the
cruise?
Ness (06:58):
Actually, really freeing.
Yeah, it was.
It's been like initially I go,no, I don't mind taking my
laptop, but then I went.
But my phone what no?
Instagram?
Because sometimes I associatethat with downtime and that with
fun.
So what excites me about thatis actually being fully present
(07:18):
to enjoy whatever comes up inthe moment and for us to
actually just have some timetogether without distractions of
the world.
Nicky (07:24):
So it's like going back to the old we kind of talk about
in the book, a little bit aboutthis going back to the old ways
or this slow living movement,and interesting because even it
might be not technically workbut the socials, the doom
scrolling, or you know,sometimes there's a crossover
and I think another importantpoint that was made is that if
(07:44):
you are having an intentionalwork from anywhere holiday, if
you're having an intentional, I,like you said, I want to pause
on that moment for a minute.
You know that could be different.
You might have times andholidays which is like a working
holiday, so that's great.
And are you also having timewhere you can completely switch
off?
And so many conversations Ifeel like I've had and I know my
(08:07):
goal was to have a work fromanywhere business, but also now
I'm like, yeah, but I want tohave more than four weeks
holidays because I own mybusiness.
Like this is the thing, andJodie is such a great example of
that installing a team andhelping coach them so that they
can step up, so that she canstep back.
Ness (08:24):
You know this is not a unique kind of story, so I just
had to jump in you know, this isnot a unique kind of story, so
I just had to jump in and, um,that's right, and it's always,
like you know, if you can findsomewhere that has no mobile
range, that's probably an addedbonus yeah, norfolk Island is
another good one.
Nicky (08:37):
Uh, I remember.
Ness (08:39):
I always remember when, um back in when my son was in high
school, so attached to hisphone 24 7, we went to Wahulla
for a day Wahulla's in thecountry, in Victoria and I said
to him there's no mobile rangethere.
And I remember we arrived, hegets out of the car and he's
checking his phone.
He goes mum, mum, my phone'snot working.
And I went yeah, I know I toldyou there's no mobile range.
(09:01):
And he's like yeah, but Ithought when you said no, you
meant just really bad mobilerange.
I'm like no, no, no, absolutelynone.
So sometimes that force toswitch off is quite incredible.
To have that experience, to bereally present to where you are
and what you're doing.
Nicky (09:18):
Isn't that a great example of where we are in this
modern day world as well, andwhat the younger people, the
younger generations?
But no means not much, or?
Ness (09:27):
poor quality like no actually means nothing.
Nicky (09:30):
Yeah, yeah, what?
There's still places in theworld where there's no mobile
range.
That's right.
That is a good strategy to do.
If you are finding it's reallyhard to switch off, then you can
choose places that have like acruise yeah, exactly, or
expensive, you know, as long asyou don't get sucked into paying
for the extra.
Ness (09:47):
Yeah, have you heard?
Our book Healthy Hustle the newblueprint to thriving business
and life, is available right nowto purchase.
In Healthy Hustle, we take youthrough real world, practical
and achievable steps to move youaway from unhealthy hustle to a
place of happiness and living,whilst continuing to achieve
(10:07):
incredible business results.
Order your copy now athealthyhustlecomau.
So what do you think needs tohappen if somebody's resonating
with that small percentage ofpeople?
What did we say?
It was 14%, not evenremembering when they had the
holiday or just only 25%, taking, you know, two weeks.
(10:27):
What do we need to shift withinus in order to be able to start
that change in the way that weview the importance of taking
leave?
Nicky (10:37):
Well, I think we need to first of all ask yourself
actually, here's a good one, Iwould take a holiday, but and
finish that sentence and seewhat comes up, because it's
either going to be somethingquite obvious, like I don't have
the team, or, you know, my teamaren't ready for me to step
away, or I just don't have aleader that can take over.
You know sort of the obviousones.
(10:58):
But it could also be somethinga little bit deeper, because the
first place we want to have alook at this is at what are our
beliefs telling us?
We were just guests on apodcast and had such a great
conversation this morning aboutand we talk about this a lot
those beliefs that arecontinuously embedded in us as
kids, as we grow up, around hardwork, around success.
(11:18):
It could be a belief that'ssaying, well, I'm the boss, so I
have to work the hardest, as anexample, or I don't want my
team to see that I'm slackingoff as another example.
You may resonate with that, butyou might not.
But you know, really, when youask yourself I would take
holidays, or if you takeholidays, I would switch off,
but whatever comes after thatbut is the biggest barrier and,
(11:41):
again could be really obviousstructural things.
But dig deeper.
You could even ask yourselfthat a few different times to
see it's like what else, whatelse?
Yeah, that's a really good one.
Ness (11:51):
Yeah, that belief system around who you are, and I guess
the thing that also comes to mymind is the entrepreneurial
addiction.
You know, that inability toswitch off, and you know, one of
the problems that some businessowners face when they are able
to extract themselves from thebusiness, when they do develop a
team who can do their work ontheir behalf, is that sense of
(12:15):
there's a sense of loss, almostthat ego isn't being stroked
every day because you are theperson that everyone must go to.
You know, there's an element ofmartyrdom.
I think that comes with that.
It definitely makes us feelimportant and significant when
something can't exist without us.
So, even though we might have abelief that you know, oh no, I
(12:38):
hate that.
I hate the fact thateverybody's relying on me and
I've got to be the centerpiece,but there's some safety and
comfort.
I think, within that as well,that we're fulfilling our need
for significance when somebodyneeds us to solve their problems
.
Yeah, so, having that reallyimportant and answering that
question around I would haveholidays, but I really want to
(12:58):
challenge our viewers andlisteners to think about.
You know, am I the roadblock tothis?
What is it that I'm believingabout me in the business that is
stopping me from being able totake this leave, because
everyone is deserving of it andwe know that there actually is a
problem with people whooverwork not being productive.
(13:20):
Yes, definitely, you know, likeif we're talking about the
ability to go away, what I loveabout being away from everything
is you get to be creative.
Yeah, maybe you get bored ormaybe you seek adventure and you
have so much going on that itsparks ideas, it rejuvenates us,
it gets us back into that spaceof being innovative and you
(13:43):
know, thinking of all these waysthat we can enjoy our life, but
then we can bring that newly.
I guess it's the renewed what'swhat I'm looking for.
It's like this vigour thatcomes back into the business
with fresh eyes and feelingrested.
Nicky (13:58):
And it's really hard to see that we're not in that place
when we're stuck in that busytrap and we're not taking
holidays, but we feel likethings are working okay.
It's like when you do step back, sometimes in hindsight it's
like, wow, okay, yeah, I reallyneeded a holiday.
I really needed a break beforethat, and I think a barrier can
also be that whole like if, whoam I if I'm not that person
(14:19):
that's constantly needed?
Who am I if I'm not the personthat steps in and saves the
world?
Ie solves all the problems.
So another really good thingthat you can do is actually it's
about replacing it.
So, if you're not doing so, ifyou go on a cruise, do something
where you're actually fillingthat time with something else
that's a little bit moreresourceful.
And another key element of thisis see to believe.
(14:42):
So who do you know around youthat has a successful business
that are taking four weeksminimum?
Guys, if you're a businessowner, four weeks minimum.
If you're a leader, make sureyou're taking all of the leave
that you have, but who aroundyou is doing it and doing it
well?
And this is an opportunity toreconnect to what you enjoy,
what you love, what's fun, andthat's different for different
(15:02):
people.
So get curious and explore,like you said, ness, and we too
often avoid the boredom, but theboredom is magical, because
that's where creativity comes.
That's why kids get so creative, isn't it?
Ness (15:13):
Yeah, for sure, and I think the other thing that comes
up as we're talking about thisfor me is we think about the
culture in a business.
So have you got a culture thatyou know you have perpetuated
yourself as a business owner, oryou're ingrained in somewhere
where you get a badge of honourfor being the person who is
(15:35):
never taking holidays becauseyou're always available, you're
always there?
No, no, I'll work throughChristmas and I'll work through
Easter and I'll do that.
It's the culture around.
We work long hours, you know.
What we know from the book isanything after 50 hours a week.
You're actually no longer beingproductive.
Nicky (15:54):
I know I can believe that stuff.
Ness (15:55):
I mean I could, but yeah, so if you are someone who
resonates with working reallylong hours, it's probably going
to be harder for you to takethat break away, because you
have potentially created anenvironment where people are
over-reliant on you, becauseyou're setting the way for them,
and so, even though you mayreally, really want to be able
(16:18):
to disconnect from the workplace, you could have created an
environment where that's notpossible, and I think that if
that's the case, what's yourplan?
What's your plan to worktowards, to building your
leaders up, to being able tocover in your absence?
You know, the thing I alwayslove talking about with business
owners is let's plan for you tosell the business, whether you
(16:41):
sell it or not, because thedecisions that you will make in
setting up a business to be soldare going to have to mean you
step away, because no one'sgoing to want to buy a business
where you've got to work 80hours a week and you never have
a holiday.
Nicky (16:54):
Where's the value?
Ness (16:56):
in that, oh my gosh totally.
Nicky (16:59):
I mean again.
I just go even the 25% that aretaking two weeks or less.
We get more when we areemployed.
We get more holidays and moresupport.
Not necessarily well, I don'tknow if we get more support, but
we actually take holidays.
This one precious life we'llcome back to this one precious
life that we have.
Is it just to work hard andgrind?
(17:22):
oh, there's got to be more to itabsolutely yeah what do you
think is an actionable actionthat our listeners can you know
who are really thinking aboutthis?
What can they do with thisinformation other than book a
holiday?
Yeah, I was gonna say going tosay one book some time off, even
if it's a day, even if it's aday whatever like, just book
some time off.
Ness (17:43):
And you know, you know, my belief used to be unless I had
somewhere to go, there's nopoint in taking time off.
Yes, I've struggled with this,but then last year I booked a
week off around my birthday andit was spring and I just had a
week at home and I potted and Idecluttered and I did little
jobs and I really actually quiteenjoyed that.
So I had to break my beliefpattern around you've got to
(18:07):
actually be going somewhere tohave a holiday.
So I guess, in light of that,my actionable action is coming
back to one of the things wetalk about in the book called
outrageous opposites.
So if we have, you know I wouldhave a holiday, but and we've
come up with all our list ofthings as to why we can't what
would be the completelyoutrageous part of that?
(18:30):
The other side, the flip side,right?
So, for example, if it'sbecause I need to be available
to my team all the time, wouldthe outrageous opposite of that
be I'm going to take six weeksaway from the business and then
if you go, wow, what would Ihave to do to end up with six
weeks out of the business?
What structure or systems wouldneed to be in place for me to
(18:53):
do that.
So I really want to challengeyour thinking.
If you are not in thatpercentage that are taking a
minimum of four weeks, let's getreally, really clear on what
the block is.
And then just the startingpoint would be to flip it and go
what would be the completelyoutrageous part of that?
And then really sit there andgo well, how would I plan that
(19:14):
out?
Because if you go six weeks inyour mind you can bring that
back to four.
Nicky (19:20):
Yeah, does that make sense?
I feel like new rule allbusiness owners, minimum six
weeks annual leave, which isgoing to create some interesting
feelings for people listening.
It absolutely makes sense.
So write down what the barrierswere through.
I would X, y, z, but, or Iwould switch off, but, and then
what's?
The outrageous opposite.
(19:40):
Don't get too caught up on butit's not, it can't happen.
Just write it down and then youcan start to get curious and
creative about how to make ithappen.
And I do think also look atyour calendar.
If you don't have any holidaysor days off in the next three
months, six months this isactually the perfect time of
year.
So Ness and I, at this time ofyear, in December or sometimes
(20:02):
even in November, we'll blockout our 12 months of holidays
for the next year.
Now, some of it might change.
That's fine, we'll change it,but there's something about
having it in the calendar.
So even if you are just puttingan extra day somewhere, if
that's a stretch for you, putsomething in your calendar as
well.
Ness (20:18):
Gonna pop that as a bonus one and if you are taking
holidays over Christmas and somebusinesses do that's their peak
period, so you're having itelsewhere.
We just want to say have abeautiful break, enjoy the
healthiness of being able tostep away and just refill your
cup and spend time with lovedones, and we are excited to be
(20:38):
back in your listening earsagain for season three next year
.
Nicky (20:42):
Oh, who can believe we're here?
Have a beautiful holiday,everybody, and see you next year
.
Okay, bye.
Ness (20:49):
Thanks for listening to today's ep.
If you loved what you heard,connect with us over on LinkedIn
and let's continue theconversation over there.
Did you hear?
You can now buy our bookHealthy Hustle the new blueprint
to thrive in business and lifeat healthyhustlecomau.
Want us to speak to your teamor run a workshop on healthy
(21:10):
hustle in your workplace?
Send us an email, or go oldschool and give us a call to
discuss.
Until next time, happylistening and here's to thriving
in business and life in yourworkplace.
Send us an email or go oldschool and give us a call to
discuss.
Until next time, happylistening and here's to thriving
in business and life.
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