October 22, 2024 • 29 mins
In this episode, Nicky and Ness delve into the critical topic of sustainability in business for 2024 and beyond. Joined by expert Mel, they discuss what it truly means to run a sustainable business in today’s evolving landscape. They explore the interconnected challenges facing businesses, from environmental impacts to human health, and how smart business owners can navigate these complexities.
Episode Highlights:
- Defining Sustainability in 2024: Moving beyond environmental concerns to consider systemic issues affecting businesses.
- Key Challenges: Supply chain disruptions, human health impacts, and the need for strategic, commercial, and moral responsibility.
- The Future of Growth: Rethinking growth strategies to focus on real-world impact rather than just profit.
- Practical Tips: How small businesses can start embedding sustainability into their operations and why it's crucial for long-term success.
Get in touch with Melissa Packham here:
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissapackham/
Company Website - https://wildbuilt.co/
Learn more about Nicky and Ness https://businesstogether.com.au
Buy a copy of Healthy Hustle: The New Blueprint to Thrive in Business & Life www.healthyhustle.com.au
Follow us on socials
Instagram - @b2businesstogether
Facebook - @B2BusinessTogether
Connect on LinkedIn
Nicky LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/connectwithnicky/
Ness LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/vanessamedling/
Give us a call
Nicky Miklos-Woodley 0403 191 404
Vanessa (Ness) Medling 0400 226 875
Or send us an email hello@businesstogether.com.au
Music by Jules Miklos-Woodley
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Nicky (00:04):
Welcome to the Smart Business Growth Podcast with
Nicky and.
Ness.
Ness (00:11):
We would like to acknowledge the traditional
custodians of country, theTurrbal and Bunurong people of
Brisbane and Melbournerespectively, where Nicky and I
both work and live both work andlive.
Nicky (00:31):
Have you recently considered what a sustainable
business really looks like in2024?
When we're talking sustainablebusinesses, it goes beyond only
considering environmental impactimpact on people.
It extends to the health andwell-being of our people, but
also beyond that, what are theimpacts to a truly sustainable
business, not just for today,tomorrow, but 5, 10, 20 years in
(00:53):
the future?
It is our strategic, ourcommercial and our moral
responsibility duty to considerthese factors and it's exactly
why we have Mel Packham join uson today's episode.
Mel is a brand-centeredstrategist who leverages two
decades of marketing experienceto guide businesses in finding
(01:13):
clarity, making agile decisionsand, most importantly, building
standout brands that aresustainable and ethical.
We have such a diverseconversation around what this
term sustainable business lookslike in the current landscape,
2024 and beyond.
What are the things that areimpacting, what are the problems
(01:35):
that we need to solve on aglobal and therefore local level
, and how can we implement andapply that to the day-to-day
workings of your business mybusiness, our businesses Enjoy
the conversation as we dive in.
So, mel, I am super excited tohave you on today because we
have had a couple ofconversations behind the scenes
(01:57):
when we've gotten together andwe have the best conversations
around what sustainability lookslike in business in 2024.
And what I loved about ourcombos and why I was very
excited when you agreed to comeon the podcast, is that you have
really challenged my thinkingin certain ways and expanded my
thinking.
I think is a really great wayto explain it In terms of the
(02:20):
sustainability piece, which Iknow is something that you're
really passionate about whenwe're looking at ethical
marketing ethical I can sayethical branding.
So I want to open today askingyou to share your thoughts on
what does a sustainable businessreally mean in 2024?
Mel Packham (02:39):
This is.
I mean, this is the bigquestion, right?
So a lot of people think ofsustainability as being just
about environmentalsustainability, and that's not
reality.
You know, the reality of thebigger picture, the world that
we're operating in, that wecannot ignore because we don't
operate businesses in a bubbleis that there are some serious
(02:59):
systemic things going on aroundus that will impact our business
at some point, and so, as savvybusiness owners, keeping an eye
and an ear to the ground on allof that stuff that's going on
and helping shift businessmodels and shift value
propositions to align with whatthe world is shifting to and
(03:21):
what it is going to need, that'swhat sustainable business means
in 2024 and beyond.
The next five years are going tobe very challenging for
businesses, and small businessesthat are sort of trying to play
on in business as usual, Ithink, are going to really
struggle, and you know we'veseen echoes of that through the
last few years or it's been afew years, it feels like you
(03:42):
know forever, and also not verylong at all.
The last four years or so We'veseen some impacts of you know
what major disruptive eventswill have.
You know the impact that willhave on businesses.
That's just a taster, and so Ithink you know really smart
businesses now are kind of going.
They're looking at five, 10years in the future and going
what does it really mean to besustainable and what does growth
(04:04):
mean?
They're looking at five, 10years in the future and going
what does it really mean to besustainable and what does growth
mean?
They're challenging, they'rethinking about what growth
actually means.
And so I love your theme aboutsmart growth because it is
anchored in all of those things.
It's anchored in, you know,well-being for people and it's
anchored in responsible for, youknow, for planet.
All of those things come toplay and so, yeah, I'm
fascinated by diving into andall the rabbit holes around what
(04:29):
could business look like in asustainable future, for a
livable future?
Because that's actually whatwe're talking about here.
Ness (04:36):
Wow, that's got me sitting upright when you mentioned some
of the challenges that arecoming over the next.
You know, five years forbusiness, small and large, I
imagine, but particularly that'ssort of on the smaller end.
What are some of those keychallenges, mel?
Mel Packham (04:50):
Well, I mean some of them we've seen already.
So supply chain disruption isgoing to be huge and that's as a
result of climate impacts, forexample.
So you know, if somewhere'sflooded or there's a boat stuck
in a channel somewhere, or abridge collapses or something,
you know, we've seen all of thathappen in the last couple of
years that is going to continuebecause environmental impacts
(05:12):
are going.
You know, mother nature's going.
I've had enough and this isreal, and we're seeing that now
there's massive floods happeningin Brazil, there's awful
tornadoes happening across theStates, there's wildfires.
That happens here in Australiaas well.
That thing disrupts majorsupply chains, and so that's a
reality, you know, and notsomething that's within our
control.
So how might we rethink ourbusiness model?
(05:35):
How might we rethink where wesource our?
You know where our supply chainbase is.
Do we localise?
Do we collaborate withadditional partners
internationally to help secure asupply chain?
There's lots of things that wecan do, but having that reality
check, I guess, is the keymessage here that that stuff
(05:56):
isn't far away.
We've seen it happen before,we've all been impacted by it
before and it's not going away.
So I think that's the major onethat I can see.
But also, you know, human healthimpacts.
You know, if people are sickand we're seeing that now
COVID's back around, we're doinga bird flu will they, you know,
is that going to come?
There's lots of that happeningthat impacts people and when,
(06:18):
you know, we lose a third of ourworkforce to illness that
affects, you know, business asusual.
So you know, what does thatlook like in the future?
How do we keep our people well?
How do we support their healthand wellbeing?
How do we put structures inplace that support that ongoing?
Because, yeah, that's not goingaway either.
So there's, you know, there'slots of those kinds of elements
(06:39):
interrelated and that's the.
I guess the magic and themystery of it is that it is
interrelated, systemic thingsgoing on and the smart business
owners will sort of start toconnect the dots and see where
these threads might start toimpact, or be thinking ahead and
going what if you know?
What if this were to happen?
And so playing out somescenario planning, which can be
(07:01):
a fun exercise If you indulge it, it can be quite enlightening.
Ness (07:05):
Well, I'm glad you say that because I think that you
know we could come from twodifferent angles on this.
We could come from one of fear,that's, doom and gloom.
That, you know, is that allsounds really scary and bury our
heads in the sand perhaps, orwe flip into.
I love what you just said.
Then you know how could youhave fun along the way, how
(07:26):
could you make this and it kindof I guess what I hear and what
you're saying too perhaps forsmaller businesses, you know, as
a board director, they're thekinds of strategic conversations
you have in the boardroom,right?
So we're talking about thefuture, that.
What are the impacts?
We have a look at all thedifferent risk scenarios that
are out there that could impactthe future of the you know
(07:47):
not-for-profit or the businessthat you're a board member on.
It's bringing that thinkinginto a smaller business that
isn't set up for a board.
But as a business owner and aleadership team, we want to act
as the board that steps awayfrom the day-to-day doing and
comes out and says actuallywe've really got to start to
consider this for our businessand the impact it's going to
(08:09):
have.
Mel Packham (08:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
And you know, that's where themagic, I think, is untapped at
the moment.
So that connects back to peoplehaving a sense of purpose and
what they're here to do and that, you know, building team
culture around that sharedpurpose and a shared vision.
What does the vision of thefuture look like, what could the
future look like and what's ourrole to play in building that
(08:30):
future?
I think that's where it'sexciting and that's where you
take the information which isvery heavy going and it's very
hard to consume, and the veryeasy thing to do is to put the
head in the sand and to ignorethat and continue with business
as usual.
That's not strategically sound,commercially sound or morally
sound.
We cannot do that, and I justgot goosebumps myself because
(08:54):
that's how big this is.
We are privileged, andprivileged to live in a time
where we've got these challengesahead of us, but we have the
tools and capability as peopleand as teams to help make that
reality.
So embedding back in purposeand figuring out what that
shared vision is key to that.
And amongst the team, that'swhere the brilliance is.
(09:16):
Collaborating as a team, wherethe work happens not at the
board level, that's settingdirection.
That's great, but there's somuch untapped knowledge and
skill within teams to unlock, tohelp build the business
resilience and shape what thatstrategic plan looks like
(09:37):
through innovation.
There's untapped potentialthere that I think is really
exciting.
Nicky (09:41):
I'm just frantically taking notes here, loving this,
because my brain is firing in somany different directions
around.
You know, what I'm hearing inthis is the question to be
asking right now is what are thepotential long-term problems?
Impacts like taking the time.
And something else that I'mthinking about is we talk a lot
about business planning and howthat's changed over the years
(10:02):
from actually just looking at90-day sprints, for example.
I remember back in the days incorporate we'd spend bloody
months getting together abusiness plan and then it would
change.
So there's this agileness towhat is my strategic plan and
doing 90-day sprints becauseit's changed.
But what we also need tooverlay with this is that still
is great for the day-to-day.
What am I doing for the next 12months?
(10:24):
Is that still is great for theday-to-day?
What am I doing for the next 12months?
And pull back?
What are the conversations?
Even chunk it up bigger aroundthat five to 10 years and it's
that higher level.
Like I'm writing down thedifferent areas because I'm
curious.
When you said it's beyondenvironmental impact, you know
there's two things here.
I think when we talksustainable, it's very easy for
our mind to go to environment.
(10:45):
Am I using recycled paper.
Oh, side note, I just bought anew printer and it's ink Like I
can't remember what they call it.
Anyway, it's moreenvironmentally friendly.
It's easy to go to there.
When we talk about smart growth,we talk about sustainability in
business, around empoweringyour team, having them step up,
looking at maximizingopportunities with profit, sales
(11:07):
, et cetera.
Smart growth and peakperformance.
But actually that's all great.
Those two things are important.
And, on top of that, supplychain, human health.
Still, looking at the classicsthat we talk about, vision,
purpose.
Generational change is anotherone that I wrote down Because if
we think about I can neverremember the names of the
(11:27):
different generations but theyounger generations, they want
more purpose, they want to knowwhy am I here?
There's a fulfillment.
They're also changing the wayof working in terms of going.
I'm not going to work 80 hoursa week and kill myself for this
job, and especially if I don'tknow the purpose.
So generational change isanother consideration in terms
(11:48):
of holistic, sustainablebusiness and AI and the impact
to people, to systems, toeconomy.
I'm kind of in my mind is therea checklist of these different
areas that we need to look at?
And so that's just the thingsthat are happening in my mind
kind of going okay, where can wetake this and how do we
(12:09):
actually implement this in thebusiness?
And I love what you saidstrategic, commercial and moral
responsibility looking at thesekey areas.
So I guess, hearing back meshare with you what I'm sort of
thinking, what's missing orwhat's you know?
What would you add to that,what kind of comes up for you as
you hear me play that back toyou, yeah, I think what comes up
(12:31):
for me is again theconnectivity of all of those
things.
Mel Packham (12:34):
So none of that's happening in isolation.
You know, the more AI we startto use, what are the actual
benefits on people?
Are we freeing up their time?
If we are, what?
Are we freeing it up for morework?
Do we want to be doing morework?
What if we could leverage AIresponsibly and sustainably?
Because actually there's amassive climate, environmental
(12:56):
impact of AI with the amount ofpower and energy that it
requires?
That's another story.
System.
It's all connected.
But if we're freeing uppeople's time so they're not
doing the tasks that a robot cando, what are we freeing it up
for?
Are we freeing it up so we canpile more stuff on their plate?
Or are we freeing it up so wecould do a four-day work week
(13:18):
and we can therefore support ourpeople's health and well-being
by having them work less onthings that are they're
connected to purpose.
They're doing work that'smeaningful to them.
They know what they're there todo and to make an impact.
The business has a sharedvision of what it is that
they're working towards and aremaking that impact.
What might the world look likeif we were all able to free up
(13:41):
that little bit of time.
So I know it sounds a littlePollyanna, but and you know I've
been accused and you know andcelebrated for being an idealist
and yes, that that's possible,it's within our grasp and we in
businesses, especially, have thedecision-making capability to
do that.
And it's not a new thing.
Businesses have been built thisway.
(14:02):
Businesses have been built asregenerative business and that's
the next level fromsustainability is how can we
give back as much as we areputting out?
And that's where true valuepropositions come into play.
So I think when you say backall of those things, it's all
connected and it starts withreally understanding that.
You know that the thing I'vebeen working on for the last 10,
(14:23):
almost 10 years is the you know, true vision and true purpose.
That's connected.
So a lot of company vision iswe want to be a $20 million
company in the next five years.
That is not a vision that isinternally focused.
That is a business objective.
A vision is you know, who givesa crap is a great example.
What would the world look likeif people had more access to
(14:46):
clean water?
And we will give 50% of ourprofits from day one to these
causes and they have, andthey're continuing and they're
growing and they're.
You know, that's that is themagic of.
What problem could we solve?
What real world problem couldwe solve?
And here's what we're here todo, and that permeates through
everything.
(15:06):
I love that example becausetheir brand personality comes to
play.
They're a toilet paper brand,they're a commodity, and they
can turn toilet paper into awork of art that sits in your
bathroom.
How dare they and how amazingis that.
You know that's the bold kindof vision stuff that we need
more businesses to come out andpeople think that they have
(15:27):
boring businesses.
I always refer to toilet paperas the king of that, or
insurance, or there's all sortsof things.
There is no such thing.
It's just the way that youapproach it and I think, when
you anchor it in somethingthat's really powerful, like
that, that's how we can start tomake genuine impact, because
otherwise, the businesses thatare not delivering on a true
(15:48):
value proposition, serving areal need in the context of all
of the things going on the polycrisis, not just a climate
crisis, it's all of them, thoseare the ones that are going to
Are you talking about the B Corpkind of businesses?
Ness (16:03):
They're B Corp, aren't they?
Mel Packham (16:04):
That's that sort of like philosophy around giving
back and yeah, and B Corp's justone label, right, that's one of
the labels, but socialenterprise is, I guess the broad
term for that is having asocial purpose.
I argue all business shouldhave a social purpose or a
purpose connected in some way toreal world problems.
(16:27):
Because we've been operating inthe world happily through
capitalism thinking everything'sdandy and we can extract, and
you know, and grow atexponential rates.
We live in a world with naturallimitations and this is, you
know, this is not new thinking.
There are limits, there's alimitation on natural resources.
The natural resources we'vebeen extracting for years are
(16:50):
making us unwell and making theplanet unwell.
That doesn't seem verystrategically or commercially
sound to continue to extractsaid limited resources to do
things that aren't actuallybenefiting human life, because
the you know, the output of GDPor the output of exponential
profit for what?
That's not, that was never thepurpose of business.
(17:12):
The purpose of business is notto make money.
That is, that's the fuel thatkeeps the business going, but
it's not the end goal.
So just sort of you know,shifting our own thinking about
what's the target here?
What are we doing?
What does that mean for us?
What if growth wasn't the goal?
Like you know, let's be $20million.
(17:32):
What if it was?
What if we could change orsolve homelessness or, you know,
support marginalizedcommunities or build climate
resilience, all of the things.
Nicky (17:44):
Wow, oh, I love that because also, so it's actually
reframing growth isn't about thetarget, it could be growth, but
it's contributing to these realworld problems.
And I also take away from thisthat it doesn't matter what size
of business you are, you knowwhether you're watching,
listening, and I'm loving thisfor myself.
I'm challenging our, what we'redoing in our business, and I
(18:06):
love that example with thetoilet paper, cause I think it
could be really easy to go yeah,but we're just this business.
Okay, but that's so true.
Toilet paper, you know, and whodoesn't know who gives a crap
if you don't Google it, causeyou know, know you're missing
out on really good toilet paperand making an impact on the
world, like you know, and thenthey have a lot of fun and
awesome emails yes, awesomeemails totally engaged people,
(18:31):
engaged consumers supporting acause 50 of profits from day one
.
Mel Packham (18:36):
they weren't, you know, necessarily financially
able, but yeah, done that.
So you're right, it doesn'thave to be when we get to X size
, or yeah.
Nicky (18:45):
And so challenging.
What are we doing now?
Because I actually feel likethere's this returning back to
almost returning, I don't knowwhy.
That's sort of how I'm feelingnow, because I feel, like you
know, we have an opportunity asbusiness owners or leaders to
have this real world impact andto actually stop and pause and
go.
The money's almost like theside effect of it.
(19:08):
If we're focusing on what we'rehere to achieve and impact and
I guess the other thing, it canbe real world impact, but it
doesn't have to be huge.
Mel, I'm curious to get yourthoughts because I really want
this to be accessible to alltypes of thinking people,
businesses as they're listeningto this.
You can actually still make areal world impact and you don't
have to give 50% of profit to athird world country to help with
(19:31):
toilets and sanitization, etcetera.
You can start with somethingsmaller than that.
But this is about challenging.
Are you looking at thesedifferent key areas for future
success, 5 to 10 to 20 years inthe future?
And what are you really doingthis for?
Because it ain't just aboutmoney and we talk about this all
the time the money like, ifyou're not inspired by the money
(19:52):
, which even people who are.
When they hit the money,oftentimes they aren't, so it's
not the thing.
And also, when it's about money, it's never about the money,
it's about what are we going todo with that money.
So let's kind of break thataway and go okay.
If it's not the money, what for?
What are we here for?
What is that difference?
Do you have any tips on whereto start with this?
(20:12):
So you talked about insurance,the toilet paper and oh, but my
vision it's not.
I'm just a boring business.
Maybe.
What's a good question to askourselves?
Or where do we start with thisso that it feels achievable?
Mel Packham (20:25):
Well, I've worked with so many businesses on
exactly this.
You start with, yeah, figuringout what's your purpose and what
is your vision of a future.
And once you get people talkingabout, you know, answering
those questions, then theinnovation, the ideas start to
come in.
What if?
Oh, if that's our vision andthis is what we do now, how do
we?
How can we get there?
And we may never get there.
(20:46):
That's the real caveat here.
We may never see a world whereeveryone has access to clean
water.
We may never solve world hunger.
We may never solve poverty.
But there are problems.
But don't stop you on thejourney to get there and you
know, for smaller businessesgoing whoa, like there's no way
we can solve world hunger.
Of course not.
But you might be able tosupport, you know, your local
(21:09):
community in some way, andthat's the other.
That's the other challenge, Iguess, to businesses is what you
know think globally, actlocally, which is such a trope,
but very much you know, if weare in communities, how are we
connecting with thosecommunities and stakeholders
there?
How are we, you know, fosteringresilience there?
There's obviously workforceimplications, but wellbeing
(21:30):
implications.
You know the environmentalimpact of, you know, the
wastewater from our factory, forexample.
What is that doing to ourcommunity and how does that
impact?
So there's things locally thatwe can be thinking about.
But imagine, yeah, it doesn'thave to be massive, but imagine
if the goal for year one wassupport five Indigenous students
to, you know, towards greaterliteracy results.
(21:52):
Or, you know, support 10families fleeing from domestic
violence.
That there are things that wecan be doing that make massive
impact.
Again, just got goosebumps,because those are the things
that really matter.
And then that expands andsuddenly, when you're connecting
to real, you can see the realimpacts.
That's also very fulfilling andengaging for people.
So not doing it.
(22:13):
The caveat here not doing it inan impact washing, green
washing way, because if it's notactually linked to purpose it's
going to fall over prettyquickly.
You know it's not going tostick around.
So you know, connecting it in agenuine way, I think, is the
challenge there.
Nicky (22:30):
And by greenwashing, so not doing it for the marketing
gig you know like.
Think about the real purposebehind it.
Mel Packham (22:38):
Absolutely.
I always come back to thatquote and I don't know who said
it.
But you know, integrity is whatyou do when people aren't
watching, even though nobody'slooking.
You know what are we doing dayto day, even though we're not
going to get accolade or youknow a shout out in the in news
media what are we doing?
That's you know true to selfand self in.
You know the company, the brandthat keeps us going and you
(23:02):
know that doesn't matter.
We still made an impact and wefeel good.
Nicky (23:06):
I also love how you said what's our vision and what's our
future.
So actually that's something Idefinitely am going to start
applying straight away, evenwith our conversations, ness,
and with clients.
Not just what's it right nowand again, that distinction
between the two layers of12-month goals, 90-day sprints
(23:27):
and the bigger picture throughthese different kind of areas
and categories that I've beenfrantically writing notes on.
Ness (23:41):
I look forward to those discussions.
It's really.
It really is getting it's kindof out of the box thinking.
It's really stepping aside andbringing in a different aspect
to smart growth in business,which I love this conversation
for that, because all the thingswe talk about are really
important in relation to growingyour business in a way that's
smart for you and for your teamand all of that kind of thing.
But it's also then, with theprofits that you make within
(24:02):
your business.
What impact do you want to havewith that?
Because it always astounds me.
Around you hear people who havebillions of dollars and you go.
What do they do with all that?
I was listening to a podcastand they said you know one?
It was a divorce lawyer one ofhis clients had.
You know, his turnover in ayear was more than the GDP of
(24:22):
some countries.
Mel Packham (24:23):
It's like how this world's crazy yeah, and we let
it get to that point wherepeople that could happen at an
individual level, yeah, and thatyou know, and similarly you
know there are very fewcompanies that are kind of
ruling the world right now.
So, yeah, we let that happenwith the system that supports
(24:45):
rampant growth, extraction,consumption, so that's the other
, that's the thing that comes upfor me out of your reflections.
Just then was around theconsumption element, and you
know what do we do?
What do we do with this?
It's like get more, what if wegot less, what if that's not the
goal and that was okay and youknow that there was a real
(25:07):
strong, you know rationale forus all to be living a better
life.
Ness (25:17):
It's just.
It's such a beautiful topic tobe talking about.
I feel like we'd talk foreverabout it.
Vicky, did you have anything toadd?
Well?
Thanks, I'm going to ask youinstead of starting to wrap up.
Nicky (25:27):
Well, I think that the final thing potentially maybe
I'll say more after this, Idon't know, but is what's coming
up for me as well is this slow,this yearning for slow living,
so this consumption, this fastpace?
We live in such a fast pace withtechnology, with all the things
that are happening around us,and I really hope that a message
(25:47):
that people are taking away,and that I certainly am taking
away, is it's okay to go a bitslower, or, and that whole slow,
go slower to speed up or to doless.
You know the conversation yousaid around AI, having AI to
support your people to be ableto do four day work weeks.
It doesn't necessarily mean jobcuts, for example, like how can
(26:08):
you implement and use thesetools so that you can be even
more profitable business, keepyour people, support your people
and give them a better way ofliving.
Going back to the pace of space, which, again Donna McGeorge,
we reference her a lot, soreally challenge our thinking
around not having to do morewith less.
(26:29):
But actually how can we besmarter with the output, the
outcome that we're getting withdoing less?
Ness (26:34):
Absolutely, and I think, on that note I'm going to throw
to you now, mel, and we alwaysend on an actionable action, and
I feel like we've covered somany various conversations and
topics in this.
But if somebody is reallyinspired by this conversation
today to do things a little bitdifferently, what would you
suggest in the next 24 hourswould be a great action for them
(26:58):
to take.
Mel Packham (26:59):
Do you know what?
I'm going to go straight forthe heartstrings here and go.
Is this a personal reflectionexercise?
What will you tell yourgrandchildren or your
grandnieces and nephews, or thenext generation, when they ask
you what you did when you knewall of this was coming?
Ness (27:18):
Oh goosebumps.
Mel Packham (27:22):
And then if that doesn't trigger something like
I'm trying to reach straight forthe humanity here, because this
is what we need to do more of.
Business is not a separateentity.
The economy is not separatefrom humanity.
It is supposed to serve life.
And so if we answer ourquestion deep in humanity, are
we okay with continuing on as wehave and with the pace that we
(27:44):
have, or are we not okay withthat?
And if the answer is I'm notokay with it, what am I going to
do about it?
What are the things I can do?
And there's lots and smallthings like we've talked a lot
about.
But just taking time andcreating some space to have
those deep conversations now,urgently, please.
Nicky (28:03):
I hear the urgency.
If you're looking for someoneto have them with, all of Mel's
details are in the show notes.
But where's the best place forthem to come?
Mel Packham (28:10):
and friendly stalk you, Ness, I know you, but Mel,
they can definitely come andstalk me on LinkedIn.
That's where I'm spending a lotof my time and I'm happy to
have conversations there too,Friendly stalk people.
Ness (28:23):
Friendly.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
It's been a fabulousconversation today and I love
your takeaway.
Actionable action that's really, yeah, giving me chills.
So you know what Nicky and I'llbe talking about at our next
weekly meeting.
Thank you again.
Have a beautiful week, people,and we'll talk to you next week,
See you later.
(28:43):
Thanks for listening to today'sep.
If you loved what you heard,connect with us over on LinkedIn
and let's continue theconversation over there.
Nicky and I are obsessed withhelping businesses install smart
business growth strategies andleveraging people leadership for
peak performance.
We bring two business minds andtwo perspectives into your
(29:05):
business, and our number onegoal is to make sure that your
business is thriving, your teamare thriving and you are
thriving thriving, your team arethriving and you are thriving.
We offer a 30-day businessdiagnostic, taking you from
chaos to clarity in just 30 days.
Are you curious to find outmore?
(29:25):
Send us an email or go oldschool and give us a call.
Until next time, happylistening and here's to thriving
in business and in life.
Welcome to the Smart Business Growth Podcast with
Nicky and.
Ness.
Ness (00:11):
We would like to acknowledge the traditional
custodians of country, theTurrbal and Bunurong people of
Brisbane and Melbournerespectively, where Nicky and I
both work and live both work andlive.
Nicky (00:31):
Have you recently considered what a sustainable
business really looks like in2024?
When we're talking sustainablebusinesses, it goes beyond only
considering environmental impactimpact on people.
It extends to the health andwell-being of our people, but
also beyond that, what are theimpacts to a truly sustainable
business, not just for today,tomorrow, but 5, 10, 20 years in
(00:53):
the future?
It is our strategic, ourcommercial and our moral
responsibility duty to considerthese factors and it's exactly
why we have Mel Packham join uson today's episode.
Mel is a brand-centeredstrategist who leverages two
decades of marketing experienceto guide businesses in finding
(01:13):
clarity, making agile decisionsand, most importantly, building
standout brands that aresustainable and ethical.
We have such a diverseconversation around what this
term sustainable business lookslike in the current landscape,
2024 and beyond.
What are the things that areimpacting, what are the problems
(01:35):
that we need to solve on aglobal and therefore local level
, and how can we implement andapply that to the day-to-day
workings of your business mybusiness, our businesses Enjoy
the conversation as we dive in.
So, mel, I am super excited tohave you on today because we
have had a couple ofconversations behind the scenes
(01:57):
when we've gotten together andwe have the best conversations
around what sustainability lookslike in business in 2024.
And what I loved about ourcombos and why I was very
excited when you agreed to comeon the podcast, is that you have
really challenged my thinkingin certain ways and expanded my
thinking.
I think is a really great wayto explain it In terms of the
(02:20):
sustainability piece, which Iknow is something that you're
really passionate about whenwe're looking at ethical
marketing ethical I can sayethical branding.
So I want to open today askingyou to share your thoughts on
what does a sustainable businessreally mean in 2024?
Mel Packham (02:39):
This is.
I mean, this is the bigquestion, right?
So a lot of people think ofsustainability as being just
about environmentalsustainability, and that's not
reality.
You know, the reality of thebigger picture, the world that
we're operating in, that wecannot ignore because we don't
operate businesses in a bubbleis that there are some serious
(02:59):
systemic things going on aroundus that will impact our business
at some point, and so, as savvybusiness owners, keeping an eye
and an ear to the ground on allof that stuff that's going on
and helping shift businessmodels and shift value
propositions to align with whatthe world is shifting to and
(03:21):
what it is going to need, that'swhat sustainable business means
in 2024 and beyond.
The next five years are going tobe very challenging for
businesses, and small businessesthat are sort of trying to play
on in business as usual, Ithink, are going to really
struggle, and you know we'veseen echoes of that through the
last few years or it's been afew years, it feels like you
(03:42):
know forever, and also not verylong at all.
The last four years or so We'veseen some impacts of you know
what major disruptive eventswill have.
You know the impact that willhave on businesses.
That's just a taster, and so Ithink you know really smart
businesses now are kind of going.
They're looking at five, 10years in the future and going
what does it really mean to besustainable and what does growth
(04:04):
mean?
They're looking at five, 10years in the future and going
what does it really mean to besustainable and what does growth
mean?
They're challenging, they'rethinking about what growth
actually means.
And so I love your theme aboutsmart growth because it is
anchored in all of those things.
It's anchored in, you know,well-being for people and it's
anchored in responsible for, youknow, for planet.
All of those things come toplay and so, yeah, I'm
fascinated by diving into andall the rabbit holes around what
(04:29):
could business look like in asustainable future, for a
livable future?
Because that's actually whatwe're talking about here.
Ness (04:36):
Wow, that's got me sitting upright when you mentioned some
of the challenges that arecoming over the next.
You know, five years forbusiness, small and large, I
imagine, but particularly that'ssort of on the smaller end.
What are some of those keychallenges, mel?
Mel Packham (04:50):
Well, I mean some of them we've seen already.
So supply chain disruption isgoing to be huge and that's as a
result of climate impacts, forexample.
So you know, if somewhere'sflooded or there's a boat stuck
in a channel somewhere, or abridge collapses or something,
you know, we've seen all of thathappen in the last couple of
years that is going to continuebecause environmental impacts
(05:12):
are going.
You know, mother nature's going.
I've had enough and this isreal, and we're seeing that now
there's massive floods happeningin Brazil, there's awful
tornadoes happening across theStates, there's wildfires.
That happens here in Australiaas well.
That thing disrupts majorsupply chains, and so that's a
reality, you know, and notsomething that's within our
control.
So how might we rethink ourbusiness model?
(05:35):
How might we rethink where wesource our?
You know where our supply chainbase is.
Do we localise?
Do we collaborate withadditional partners
internationally to help secure asupply chain?
There's lots of things that wecan do, but having that reality
check, I guess, is the keymessage here that that stuff
(05:56):
isn't far away.
We've seen it happen before,we've all been impacted by it
before and it's not going away.
So I think that's the major onethat I can see.
But also, you know, human healthimpacts.
You know, if people are sickand we're seeing that now
COVID's back around, we're doinga bird flu will they, you know,
is that going to come?
There's lots of that happeningthat impacts people and when,
(06:18):
you know, we lose a third of ourworkforce to illness that
affects, you know, business asusual.
So you know, what does thatlook like in the future?
How do we keep our people well?
How do we support their healthand wellbeing?
How do we put structures inplace that support that ongoing?
Because, yeah, that's not goingaway either.
So there's, you know, there'slots of those kinds of elements
(06:39):
interrelated and that's the.
I guess the magic and themystery of it is that it is
interrelated, systemic thingsgoing on and the smart business
owners will sort of start toconnect the dots and see where
these threads might start toimpact, or be thinking ahead and
going what if you know?
What if this were to happen?
And so playing out somescenario planning, which can be
(07:01):
a fun exercise If you indulge it, it can be quite enlightening.
Ness (07:05):
Well, I'm glad you say that because I think that you
know we could come from twodifferent angles on this.
We could come from one of fear,that's, doom and gloom.
That, you know, is that allsounds really scary and bury our
heads in the sand perhaps, orwe flip into.
I love what you just said.
Then you know how could youhave fun along the way, how
(07:26):
could you make this and it kindof I guess what I hear and what
you're saying too perhaps forsmaller businesses, you know, as
a board director, they're thekinds of strategic conversations
you have in the boardroom,right?
So we're talking about thefuture, that.
What are the impacts?
We have a look at all thedifferent risk scenarios that
are out there that could impactthe future of the you know
(07:47):
not-for-profit or the businessthat you're a board member on.
It's bringing that thinkinginto a smaller business that
isn't set up for a board.
But as a business owner and aleadership team, we want to act
as the board that steps awayfrom the day-to-day doing and
comes out and says actuallywe've really got to start to
consider this for our businessand the impact it's going to
(08:09):
have.
Mel Packham (08:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
And you know, that's where themagic, I think, is untapped at
the moment.
So that connects back to peoplehaving a sense of purpose and
what they're here to do and that, you know, building team
culture around that sharedpurpose and a shared vision.
What does the vision of thefuture look like, what could the
future look like and what's ourrole to play in building that
(08:30):
future?
I think that's where it'sexciting and that's where you
take the information which isvery heavy going and it's very
hard to consume, and the veryeasy thing to do is to put the
head in the sand and to ignorethat and continue with business
as usual.
That's not strategically sound,commercially sound or morally
sound.
We cannot do that, and I justgot goosebumps myself because
(08:54):
that's how big this is.
We are privileged, andprivileged to live in a time
where we've got these challengesahead of us, but we have the
tools and capability as peopleand as teams to help make that
reality.
So embedding back in purposeand figuring out what that
shared vision is key to that.
And amongst the team, that'swhere the brilliance is.
(09:16):
Collaborating as a team, wherethe work happens not at the
board level, that's settingdirection.
That's great, but there's somuch untapped knowledge and
skill within teams to unlock, tohelp build the business
resilience and shape what thatstrategic plan looks like
(09:37):
through innovation.
There's untapped potentialthere that I think is really
exciting.
Nicky (09:41):
I'm just frantically taking notes here, loving this,
because my brain is firing in somany different directions
around.
You know, what I'm hearing inthis is the question to be
asking right now is what are thepotential long-term problems?
Impacts like taking the time.
And something else that I'mthinking about is we talk a lot
about business planning and howthat's changed over the years
(10:02):
from actually just looking at90-day sprints, for example.
I remember back in the days incorporate we'd spend bloody
months getting together abusiness plan and then it would
change.
So there's this agileness towhat is my strategic plan and
doing 90-day sprints becauseit's changed.
But what we also need tooverlay with this is that still
is great for the day-to-day.
What am I doing for the next 12months?
(10:24):
Is that still is great for theday-to-day?
What am I doing for the next 12months?
And pull back?
What are the conversations?
Even chunk it up bigger aroundthat five to 10 years and it's
that higher level.
Like I'm writing down thedifferent areas because I'm
curious.
When you said it's beyondenvironmental impact, you know
there's two things here.
I think when we talksustainable, it's very easy for
our mind to go to environment.
(10:45):
Am I using recycled paper.
Oh, side note, I just bought anew printer and it's ink Like I
can't remember what they call it.
Anyway, it's moreenvironmentally friendly.
It's easy to go to there.
When we talk about smart growth,we talk about sustainability in
business, around empoweringyour team, having them step up,
looking at maximizingopportunities with profit, sales
(11:07):
, et cetera.
Smart growth and peakperformance.
But actually that's all great.
Those two things are important.
And, on top of that, supplychain, human health.
Still, looking at the classicsthat we talk about, vision,
purpose.
Generational change is anotherone that I wrote down Because if
we think about I can neverremember the names of the
(11:27):
different generations but theyounger generations, they want
more purpose, they want to knowwhy am I here?
There's a fulfillment.
They're also changing the wayof working in terms of going.
I'm not going to work 80 hoursa week and kill myself for this
job, and especially if I don'tknow the purpose.
So generational change isanother consideration in terms
(11:48):
of holistic, sustainablebusiness and AI and the impact
to people, to systems, toeconomy.
I'm kind of in my mind is therea checklist of these different
areas that we need to look at?
And so that's just the thingsthat are happening in my mind
kind of going okay, where can wetake this and how do we
(12:09):
actually implement this in thebusiness?
And I love what you saidstrategic, commercial and moral
responsibility looking at thesekey areas.
So I guess, hearing back meshare with you what I'm sort of
thinking, what's missing orwhat's you know?
What would you add to that,what kind of comes up for you as
you hear me play that back toyou, yeah, I think what comes up
(12:31):
for me is again theconnectivity of all of those
things.
Mel Packham (12:34):
So none of that's happening in isolation.
You know, the more AI we startto use, what are the actual
benefits on people?
Are we freeing up their time?
If we are, what?
Are we freeing it up for morework?
Do we want to be doing morework?
What if we could leverage AIresponsibly and sustainably?
Because actually there's amassive climate, environmental
(12:56):
impact of AI with the amount ofpower and energy that it
requires?
That's another story.
System.
It's all connected.
But if we're freeing uppeople's time so they're not
doing the tasks that a robot cando, what are we freeing it up
for?
Are we freeing it up so we canpile more stuff on their plate?
Or are we freeing it up so wecould do a four-day work week
(13:18):
and we can therefore support ourpeople's health and well-being
by having them work less onthings that are they're
connected to purpose.
They're doing work that'smeaningful to them.
They know what they're there todo and to make an impact.
The business has a sharedvision of what it is that
they're working towards and aremaking that impact.
What might the world look likeif we were all able to free up
(13:41):
that little bit of time.
So I know it sounds a littlePollyanna, but and you know I've
been accused and you know andcelebrated for being an idealist
and yes, that that's possible,it's within our grasp and we in
businesses, especially, have thedecision-making capability to
do that.
And it's not a new thing.
Businesses have been built thisway.
(14:02):
Businesses have been built asregenerative business and that's
the next level fromsustainability is how can we
give back as much as we areputting out?
And that's where true valuepropositions come into play.
So I think when you say backall of those things, it's all
connected and it starts withreally understanding that.
You know that the thing I'vebeen working on for the last 10,
(14:23):
almost 10 years is the you know, true vision and true purpose.
That's connected.
So a lot of company vision iswe want to be a $20 million
company in the next five years.
That is not a vision that isinternally focused.
That is a business objective.
A vision is you know, who givesa crap is a great example.
What would the world look likeif people had more access to
(14:46):
clean water?
And we will give 50% of ourprofits from day one to these
causes and they have, andthey're continuing and they're
growing and they're.
You know, that's that is themagic of.
What problem could we solve?
What real world problem couldwe solve?
And here's what we're here todo, and that permeates through
everything.
(15:06):
I love that example becausetheir brand personality comes to
play.
They're a toilet paper brand,they're a commodity, and they
can turn toilet paper into awork of art that sits in your
bathroom.
How dare they and how amazingis that.
You know that's the bold kindof vision stuff that we need
more businesses to come out andpeople think that they have
(15:27):
boring businesses.
I always refer to toilet paperas the king of that, or
insurance, or there's all sortsof things.
There is no such thing.
It's just the way that youapproach it and I think, when
you anchor it in somethingthat's really powerful, like
that, that's how we can start tomake genuine impact, because
otherwise, the businesses thatare not delivering on a true
(15:48):
value proposition, serving areal need in the context of all
of the things going on the polycrisis, not just a climate
crisis, it's all of them, thoseare the ones that are going to
Are you talking about the B Corpkind of businesses?
Ness (16:03):
They're B Corp, aren't they?
Mel Packham (16:04):
That's that sort of like philosophy around giving
back and yeah, and B Corp's justone label, right, that's one of
the labels, but socialenterprise is, I guess the broad
term for that is having asocial purpose.
I argue all business shouldhave a social purpose or a
purpose connected in some way toreal world problems.
(16:27):
Because we've been operating inthe world happily through
capitalism thinking everything'sdandy and we can extract, and
you know, and grow atexponential rates.
We live in a world with naturallimitations and this is, you
know, this is not new thinking.
There are limits, there's alimitation on natural resources.
The natural resources we'vebeen extracting for years are
(16:50):
making us unwell and making theplanet unwell.
That doesn't seem verystrategically or commercially
sound to continue to extractsaid limited resources to do
things that aren't actuallybenefiting human life, because
the you know, the output of GDPor the output of exponential
profit for what?
That's not, that was never thepurpose of business.
(17:12):
The purpose of business is notto make money.
That is, that's the fuel thatkeeps the business going, but
it's not the end goal.
So just sort of you know,shifting our own thinking about
what's the target here?
What are we doing?
What does that mean for us?
What if growth wasn't the goal?
Like you know, let's be $20million.
(17:32):
What if it was?
What if we could change orsolve homelessness or, you know,
support marginalizedcommunities or build climate
resilience, all of the things.
Nicky (17:44):
Wow, oh, I love that because also, so it's actually
reframing growth isn't about thetarget, it could be growth, but
it's contributing to these realworld problems.
And I also take away from thisthat it doesn't matter what size
of business you are, you knowwhether you're watching,
listening, and I'm loving thisfor myself.
I'm challenging our, what we'redoing in our business, and I
(18:06):
love that example with thetoilet paper, cause I think it
could be really easy to go yeah,but we're just this business.
Okay, but that's so true.
Toilet paper, you know, and whodoesn't know who gives a crap
if you don't Google it, causeyou know, know you're missing
out on really good toilet paperand making an impact on the
world, like you know, and thenthey have a lot of fun and
awesome emails yes, awesomeemails totally engaged people,
(18:31):
engaged consumers supporting acause 50 of profits from day one
.
Mel Packham (18:36):
they weren't, you know, necessarily financially
able, but yeah, done that.
So you're right, it doesn'thave to be when we get to X size
, or yeah.
Nicky (18:45):
And so challenging.
What are we doing now?
Because I actually feel likethere's this returning back to
almost returning, I don't knowwhy.
That's sort of how I'm feelingnow, because I feel, like you
know, we have an opportunity asbusiness owners or leaders to
have this real world impact andto actually stop and pause and
go.
The money's almost like theside effect of it.
(19:08):
If we're focusing on what we'rehere to achieve and impact and
I guess the other thing, it canbe real world impact, but it
doesn't have to be huge.
Mel, I'm curious to get yourthoughts because I really want
this to be accessible to alltypes of thinking people,
businesses as they're listeningto this.
You can actually still make areal world impact and you don't
have to give 50% of profit to athird world country to help with
(19:31):
toilets and sanitization, etcetera.
You can start with somethingsmaller than that.
But this is about challenging.
Are you looking at thesedifferent key areas for future
success, 5 to 10 to 20 years inthe future?
And what are you really doingthis for?
Because it ain't just aboutmoney and we talk about this all
the time the money like, ifyou're not inspired by the money
(19:52):
, which even people who are.
When they hit the money,oftentimes they aren't, so it's
not the thing.
And also, when it's about money, it's never about the money,
it's about what are we going todo with that money.
So let's kind of break thataway and go okay.
If it's not the money, what for?
What are we here for?
What is that difference?
Do you have any tips on whereto start with this?
(20:12):
So you talked about insurance,the toilet paper and oh, but my
vision it's not.
I'm just a boring business.
Maybe.
What's a good question to askourselves?
Or where do we start with thisso that it feels achievable?
Mel Packham (20:25):
Well, I've worked with so many businesses on
exactly this.
You start with, yeah, figuringout what's your purpose and what
is your vision of a future.
And once you get people talkingabout, you know, answering
those questions, then theinnovation, the ideas start to
come in.
What if?
Oh, if that's our vision andthis is what we do now, how do
we?
How can we get there?
And we may never get there.
(20:46):
That's the real caveat here.
We may never see a world whereeveryone has access to clean
water.
We may never solve world hunger.
We may never solve poverty.
But there are problems.
But don't stop you on thejourney to get there and you
know, for smaller businessesgoing whoa, like there's no way
we can solve world hunger.
Of course not.
But you might be able tosupport, you know, your local
(21:09):
community in some way, andthat's the other.
That's the other challenge, Iguess, to businesses is what you
know think globally, actlocally, which is such a trope,
but very much you know, if weare in communities, how are we
connecting with thosecommunities and stakeholders
there?
How are we, you know, fosteringresilience there?
There's obviously workforceimplications, but wellbeing
(21:30):
implications.
You know the environmentalimpact of, you know, the
wastewater from our factory, forexample.
What is that doing to ourcommunity and how does that
impact?
So there's things locally thatwe can be thinking about.
But imagine, yeah, it doesn'thave to be massive, but imagine
if the goal for year one wassupport five Indigenous students
to, you know, towards greaterliteracy results.
(21:52):
Or, you know, support 10families fleeing from domestic
violence.
That there are things that wecan be doing that make massive
impact.
Again, just got goosebumps,because those are the things
that really matter.
And then that expands andsuddenly, when you're connecting
to real, you can see the realimpacts.
That's also very fulfilling andengaging for people.
So not doing it.
(22:13):
The caveat here not doing it inan impact washing, green
washing way, because if it's notactually linked to purpose it's
going to fall over prettyquickly.
You know it's not going tostick around.
So you know, connecting it in agenuine way, I think, is the
challenge there.
Nicky (22:30):
And by greenwashing, so not doing it for the marketing
gig you know like.
Think about the real purposebehind it.
Mel Packham (22:38):
Absolutely.
I always come back to thatquote and I don't know who said
it.
But you know, integrity is whatyou do when people aren't
watching, even though nobody'slooking.
You know what are we doing dayto day, even though we're not
going to get accolade or youknow a shout out in the in news
media what are we doing?
That's you know true to selfand self in.
You know the company, the brandthat keeps us going and you
(23:02):
know that doesn't matter.
We still made an impact and wefeel good.
Nicky (23:06):
I also love how you said what's our vision and what's our
future.
So actually that's something Idefinitely am going to start
applying straight away, evenwith our conversations, ness,
and with clients.
Not just what's it right nowand again, that distinction
between the two layers of12-month goals, 90-day sprints
(23:27):
and the bigger picture throughthese different kind of areas
and categories that I've beenfrantically writing notes on.
Ness (23:41):
I look forward to those discussions.
It's really.
It really is getting it's kindof out of the box thinking.
It's really stepping aside andbringing in a different aspect
to smart growth in business,which I love this conversation
for that, because all the thingswe talk about are really
important in relation to growingyour business in a way that's
smart for you and for your teamand all of that kind of thing.
But it's also then, with theprofits that you make within
(24:02):
your business.
What impact do you want to havewith that?
Because it always astounds me.
Around you hear people who havebillions of dollars and you go.
What do they do with all that?
I was listening to a podcastand they said you know one?
It was a divorce lawyer one ofhis clients had.
You know, his turnover in ayear was more than the GDP of
(24:22):
some countries.
Mel Packham (24:23):
It's like how this world's crazy yeah, and we let
it get to that point wherepeople that could happen at an
individual level, yeah, and thatyou know, and similarly you
know there are very fewcompanies that are kind of
ruling the world right now.
So, yeah, we let that happenwith the system that supports
(24:45):
rampant growth, extraction,consumption, so that's the other
, that's the thing that comes upfor me out of your reflections.
Just then was around theconsumption element, and you
know what do we do?
What do we do with this?
It's like get more, what if wegot less, what if that's not the
goal and that was okay and youknow that there was a real
(25:07):
strong, you know rationale forus all to be living a better
life.
Ness (25:17):
It's just.
It's such a beautiful topic tobe talking about.
I feel like we'd talk foreverabout it.
Vicky, did you have anything toadd?
Well?
Thanks, I'm going to ask youinstead of starting to wrap up.
Nicky (25:27):
Well, I think that the final thing potentially maybe
I'll say more after this, Idon't know, but is what's coming
up for me as well is this slow,this yearning for slow living,
so this consumption, this fastpace?
We live in such a fast pace withtechnology, with all the things
that are happening around us,and I really hope that a message
(25:47):
that people are taking away,and that I certainly am taking
away, is it's okay to go a bitslower, or, and that whole slow,
go slower to speed up or to doless.
You know the conversation yousaid around AI, having AI to
support your people to be ableto do four day work weeks.
It doesn't necessarily mean jobcuts, for example, like how can
(26:08):
you implement and use thesetools so that you can be even
more profitable business, keepyour people, support your people
and give them a better way ofliving.
Going back to the pace of space, which, again Donna McGeorge,
we reference her a lot, soreally challenge our thinking
around not having to do morewith less.
(26:29):
But actually how can we besmarter with the output, the
outcome that we're getting withdoing less?
Ness (26:34):
Absolutely, and I think, on that note I'm going to throw
to you now, mel, and we alwaysend on an actionable action, and
I feel like we've covered somany various conversations and
topics in this.
But if somebody is reallyinspired by this conversation
today to do things a little bitdifferently, what would you
suggest in the next 24 hourswould be a great action for them
(26:58):
to take.
Mel Packham (26:59):
Do you know what?
I'm going to go straight forthe heartstrings here and go.
Is this a personal reflectionexercise?
What will you tell yourgrandchildren or your
grandnieces and nephews, or thenext generation, when they ask
you what you did when you knewall of this was coming?
Ness (27:18):
Oh goosebumps.
Mel Packham (27:22):
And then if that doesn't trigger something like
I'm trying to reach straight forthe humanity here, because this
is what we need to do more of.
Business is not a separateentity.
The economy is not separatefrom humanity.
It is supposed to serve life.
And so if we answer ourquestion deep in humanity, are
we okay with continuing on as wehave and with the pace that we
(27:44):
have, or are we not okay withthat?
And if the answer is I'm notokay with it, what am I going to
do about it?
What are the things I can do?
And there's lots and smallthings like we've talked a lot
about.
But just taking time andcreating some space to have
those deep conversations now,urgently, please.
Nicky (28:03):
I hear the urgency.
If you're looking for someoneto have them with, all of Mel's
details are in the show notes.
But where's the best place forthem to come?
Mel Packham (28:10):
and friendly stalk you, Ness, I know you, but Mel,
they can definitely come andstalk me on LinkedIn.
That's where I'm spending a lotof my time and I'm happy to
have conversations there too,Friendly stalk people.
Ness (28:23):
Friendly.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
It's been a fabulousconversation today and I love
your takeaway.
Actionable action that's really, yeah, giving me chills.
So you know what Nicky and I'llbe talking about at our next
weekly meeting.
Thank you again.
Have a beautiful week, people,and we'll talk to you next week,
See you later.
(28:43):
Thanks for listening to today'sep.
If you loved what you heard,connect with us over on LinkedIn
and let's continue theconversation over there.
Nicky and I are obsessed withhelping businesses install smart
business growth strategies andleveraging people leadership for
peak performance.
We bring two business minds andtwo perspectives into your
(29:05):
business, and our number onegoal is to make sure that your
business is thriving, your teamare thriving and you are
thriving thriving, your team arethriving and you are thriving.
We offer a 30-day businessdiagnostic, taking you from
chaos to clarity in just 30 days.
Are you curious to find outmore?
(29:25):
Send us an email or go oldschool and give us a call.
Until next time, happylistening and here's to thriving
in business and in life.
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