December 3, 2024 • 29 mins
In this episode, Vanessa is joined by sales expert Darcy Smyth to explore the evolving sales landscape in a post-COVID world. They discuss overcoming sales challenges, the impact of economic changes, and effective strategies to thrive despite market fluctuations.
Episode Highlights:
- Market Changes: Darcy explains how the sales environment has shifted over the past five years, highlighting the importance of persistence and understanding market dynamics.
- The M.O.R.E. Model: Darcy introduces the M.O.R.E. model—Market, Offer, Return on Investment, and Executing with Decision Makers—as a framework for sales success.
- Dealing with Rejection: Strategies for overcoming fear of rejection and using it as valuable feedback for improving sales approaches.
- The Importance of Understanding Your Market: Specialising in either a niche market or product and tailoring your offer to meet market needs.
This episode is packed with actionable insights for anyone looking to boost their sales performance and navigate today’s challenging business environment.
Connect with Darcy:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/darcyjsmyth/
https://www.whybravo.com/
Learn more about Nicky and Ness https://businesstogether.com.au
Buy a copy of Healthy Hustle: The New Blueprint to Thrive in Business & Life www.healthyhustle.com.au
Follow us on socials
Instagram - @b2businesstogether
Facebook - @B2BusinessTogether
Connect on LinkedIn
Nicky LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/connectwithnicky/
Ness LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/vanessamedling/
Give us a call
Nicky Miklos-Woodley 0403 191 404
Vanessa (Ness) Medling 0400 226 875
Or send us an email hello@businesstogether.com.au
Music by Jules Miklos-Woodley
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ness (00:04):
Welcome to the Smart Business Growth Podcast with
Nicky and Ness.
We would like to acknowledgethe traditional custodians of
country, the Turrbal andBunurong people of Brisbane and
Melbourne respectively, whereNicky and I both work and live,
both work and live.
It makes me so happy tointroduce our guest this week on
(00:30):
the podcast, Darcy Smyth.
Darcy's been obsessed with onething more than any other since
the age of 10, and that's thehuman mind.
He's fascinated by why we dowhat we do and why we buy what
we buy.
He's been working in the salestraining and mentoring field for
10 plus years, and this iswhere Nicky and I have both met
(00:51):
him.
Darcy's been my initial earlydays sales trainer, sales mentor
coach extraordinaire, whoreally helped me shift my
mindset away from, you know, notactually making any money in my
business my first business forthe first three months, lots of
coffee opportunities though intoreally understanding the
(01:11):
mentality behind sales andunderstanding why people buy and
how to make a businesssuccessful.
And then, of course, that'sbeen built on since.
Nicky and I have come togetherback in the day then as well,
and I do just love how alignedDarcy's selling style and
methodology is with ours.
(01:32):
So he takes care of all new andexisting teams on the Outband
platform, which is through abusiness he runs with the
fabulous Mr Steve Claydon and heis also the father of a nearly
two-year-old daughter, and anyspare time that he gets devoted
entirely to the golf course,with very little improvement
overall.
I love hearing the golf stories, so you're in for a treat.
(01:54):
Today, darcy steps us through areally clear model.
It's called the Moore Magnetand that is anywhere you are in
business to be able to stop andidentify what the blocks or
barriers are to you being ableto make sales.
And we also touched on throughthe conversation and then a
little bit more in depth at theend, this whole rejection
(02:15):
concept and how to overcome that.
So if you've ever resonatedwith the challenge of being
rejected when somebody says noto your offer, you definitely
want to listen in to this one.
For the reframe, let's getstraight into it.
Today is a little bit differentin that you won't hear Nicky's
voice or see her on video, soI'm running solo with the
(02:37):
fabulous Darcy Smyth.
Thank you so much for joiningme today, darcy.
Darcy (02:41):
Thanks for having me.
Vanessa, Appreciate it.
Ness (02:43):
So welcome and, as I said in the intro, like we've known
each other for a very long timeand you have probably taught me
the basis of everything I knowabout sales.
Darcy (02:53):
I take that as a compliment.
I hope it's set you up well.
It is, I'm still in business.
Ness (02:57):
So here we are all these years later and we know that you
know you are an incrediblementor in this space and have
definitely for me and I canspeak on my behalf because Nick
is not here but it hasdefinitely made a big impact on
how I approach sales because Ilove.
The one thing that you taughtme in the early days was all
(03:18):
about what problem are yousolving?
And it's a beautiful approach tohow to help people and how to
make sure that you are solving aproblem for someone and they're
paying you for that, so that'ssomething that has always stuck
with me, darcy.
And then of course, there's,just like layers upon layers of
other pieces of gold that Ipicked up along the way, but I
thought that we could kick offperhaps with a question in
(03:40):
relation to.
You know, we are post-COVID,obviously, you know.
As somebody was saying, though,in January or February it'll be
like five years since it allstarted.
Darcy (03:50):
That is crazy.
Ness (03:52):
So but right, you know, in 2024, there's economic and
market business impacts that arehappening.
I notice, in a lot of thegroups that I'm in on social
media, people jump in and talkabout how hard business is, how
hard it is to get sales.
You know, depends on whichperspective you're listening to,
right, but I think there ismomentum out there in the way
(04:13):
that media talk to us about theissues in the world.
So, from your perspective, inthe world of sales, how has the
landscape changed over the past?
You know, four to five years,since all of this has happened?
Darcy (04:26):
Yeah, appreciate it and thanks for having me today.
You're welcome.
So yeah, we're in aninteresting spot, sales-wise,
economy-wise, you're right.
It does depend on whichindustry you look into and who
you're listening to as towhether things are super
difficult or just a little bitdifficult or just normal
business difficult.
But the main thing overall isthat the deals are still there
(04:47):
to make Sales, are still thereto be closed.
They do just tend to take thatextra little bit of nurture,
that extra little bit offollow-up I don't want to say
little bit of follow-up thatextra bulk of follow-up and a
little bit more patience for thedeals to come over the line.
When they do so, money neverreally evaporates.
When people say that money'stight, that doesn't mean
anything.
All that ever means is thatmoney is just being held by a
(05:11):
particular part of the market orby a particular set of people
and they're not really spendingit all that much.
But sooner or later it actuallybecomes detrimental for those
people to hold onto that moneybecause a lot of the time that
money is made by investing inthings.
So the longer they're holdingonto it, the less investments
they're making and therefore themoney is actually starting to
cost them by not investing it.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, totally so.
It's not long before that dambursts through and those people
(05:34):
holding onto the money go.
Okay, let's actually put thisback out into the market again
and away we go.
That's a very simplistic way oflooking at it, but it's a
pretty true context to seethrough all of this.
Right Now, when that's the case,you've got a couple of options
so you can basically continue tobe in a market that sells
something that is nice to have.
And if you're selling somethingthat's nice to have when
(05:56):
there's not so much moneyfloating about, then all you can
really do is nurture, add a tonof value, be there, be present,
be seen, be visible, so thatwhen the money does turn back on
again in quotation marks, thenyou'll be the first person they
think of when they're thinkingoh wow, I need a gold bumper bar
for my car or I need you know,I need, whatever it may be
(06:18):
crystal laced shoelaces.
You know like I'll buy it andthat's the case, right?
But the other way that Ibelieve is valuable,
particularly in a market likethis, is you really?
It gives you the chance toreally assess how much of your
business is a need to havebusiness, because if you're a
need to have business, thenyou'll flourish when times are
tough and you'll actuallyflourish when times are good.
You'll flourish all the time.
The ideal business that youshould have is one that is
(06:41):
always a need to have product.
If business that you shouldhave is one that is always a
need to have product, if youdon't believe that you're a need
to have product, the way youcan look at that is that you
simply don't understand the deepproblems that you're solving
for a market on both anindividual level so for them,
the individual but also from anROI perspective, literally a
logical and financial level.
(07:01):
If you don't know the problemsthat you're solving and that you
can't add that up for people,you'll always be seen as a nice
to have and not a need to have.
Please let me know if I'm goingon a rant here.
No, Making sense Right, themodel that we teach.
For this is what I sort of cameup with this around about sort
of 60 days ago.
I was putting these thoughtstogether around.
Particularly in a toughermarket, the thing that people
(07:30):
experience a lot more isrejection, right?
And I thought, well, what arethe keys to be in place that if
these were in place, thenrejection wouldn't be
experienced?
What would be the ultimatebusiness to create?
Right?
And when you think about that,if you knew you weren't going to
get rejected?
So if I ask you this, ness, ifyou knew that the first person
you were going to call up todaywas going to say yes to whatever
you offered whether that's ameeting or a product or a sale
or whatever is they're going tosay yes, how quickly would you
get on the phone?
Really quick, really quick.
If you knew that you were goingto do that for tomorrow, the
(07:53):
next week, the next month, thenext six months and 12 months.
After that, all you were goingto hear was yeses, what do you
think we need?
Probably need to stick a bit ofdynamite in between your left
ear and the phone and blow itoff, and blow your head off in
the process.
Right, a good salesperson wouldbe like.
Just sign me up for that.
Ness (08:08):
Okay.
Darcy (08:08):
So the problem isn't that we are afraid of going outbound
or that we're afraid of, youknow, putting our products out
there, or that we're afraid ofhaving sales conversations.
That's not the problem.
The problem is we're afraid ofrejection.
That's why people aren't takingaction.
That's why people are afraid ofjumping on the phones.
That's why it feels harder in atougher market.
What you're saying when you'resaying this feels harder is I
feel like I'm going toexperience more rejection.
(08:29):
That's really what it boilsdown to.
So the four things that youneed to understand in order to
not have any sense of rejectionor not fear that rejection four
things.
We refer to it as what's calledthe more magnet M-O-R-E.
More magnet Meaning.
If you have these four thingsin place, m-o-r-e, then you'll
have clients that havemagnetized towards you and you
(08:50):
won't need to feel like you'rethe squeamish, awkward sales
convincer anymore, which is agood one.
So the first thing that youneed to have in place is you
need to understand your market,and when we talk about
understanding your market, werefer to a couple of things here
the your market.
We refer to a couple of thingshere.
The first thing is that youunderstand the specialization
that you're in.
So you can specialize in twodifferent ways.
You can specialize by focusingon a particular part of the
(09:12):
market.
In a lot of work that we domyself and my business partner,
steve Clayton in the work thatwe do, we have a specialized
niche of 10 to 50 million dollarconstruction and manufacturing
companies, project-centriccompanies using HubSpot as their
CRM Completely blue ocean forus.
No one else exists there.
We dominate that space.
We're the go-to for all ofthose businesses and they come
(09:33):
to us.
They're magnetized to usbecause of that.
Okay, if you're not going tospecialize in a particular part
of the market, the only otherthing you can do is specialize
in your product.
And if you're going specialisein the product, you need to be
what we refer to as what'scalled the lamb man.
The lamb man comes from this.
Every Saturday morning, myselfand my partner Ash, we go down
to the Kiwana markets, likesunny coast markets.
(09:54):
Here we get our fresh veg andour fresh meat and all this sort
of stuff.
You know very sunshine coastthing to do.
You know everything's organicand spray free and whatnot right
, all the very little.
Ness (10:10):
It's special and precious, isn't it Vanessa?
Anyway, just eat a white breadsandwich, exactly From.
Darcy (10:12):
Bunnings?
Yeah, exactly.
So there's a guy there Kerry ishis name, and he's the man we
buy our lamb from every week,and this man is obsessed with
lamb.
All the signs out the front sayQueensland's best lamb.
Australia's best lamb,australia's best Dorper lamb
you'll never find anywhere,whatever you shake his hand, and
to him lamb is the world Like.
He even looks a little bit likea little lamb, like he is, just
(10:34):
he's obsessed with lamb rightNow.
He doesn't rock up to thosemarkets and go.
My ideal customer is a SunshineCoast based 40 year oldyear-old
male that has a dog and whateverhe's like.
I'm just obsessed with lamb.
I just love my product.
So if you're going to notspecialize in a particular part
of the market, you need tospecialize in your product and
(10:55):
you need to think that yourproduct is the greatest thing
since sliced bread, and you needto sing that from the rooftops
and back that hill five timesmore than you even think you are
right now.
Yeah, like it needs to become.
You need to become a walkingtalking lamb man as far as your
product is concerned.
Yeah, that's the only way youovercome the fact that you
haven't specialised into aparticular market segment just
(11:17):
yet.
Right.
So that's the first part about M.
You need to understand yourspecialisation.
Who do you specialise inserving?
The next thing you want tounderstand about your market is
the problems that areexperienced by that market, and
we refer to this as what'scalled the three-headed monster.
So the three-headed monster isthe three problems that your
buyer always has at least one of.
I'll say that again your threeproblems that your buyer always
(11:40):
has at least one of.
So if I was an accountant, Imight say to you, vanessa,
people come to us at ouraccounting firm because they're
experiencing one, two or evenall three of these problems.
First problem they only everhear from their accountant when
there's a bill to pay or badnews to be delivered.
Second problem you don't haveany understanding around how you
(12:01):
can actually use the money inyour business account to make
strategic investments into otherbusinesses and other futures.
A lot of accounts just countthe money.
They don't actuallystrategically advise you.
And then the third is that youdon't have any access to
government grants available andfree money for your industry.
The accountant doesn't actuallythink that's his or her
priority to actually teach you.
They think you should go and dothat yourself.
Curious, vanessa, any of thatgoing on for you.
You'd hear that and go yeah, abit of all three going on there
with my account and I think whathave you got to offer, Right?
(12:21):
So that's the M, the more magnetof the more magnet, which is
knowing your market.
What's the specialization andwhat three main problems does
that market run into?
That if you spoke to them onany given day, you can be
guaranteed that they're going tohave at least one of those.
That's really key With me sofar, or am I?
Ness (12:38):
Absolutely Loving it.
Excellent, I'm loving it.
I'm making notes oh that'sawesome, notes.
How can we apply this in ourown business?
Darcy (12:44):
There you go, love it.
It's the best part aboutrunning podcasts, isn't it?
You get to just learn as you go.
Ness (12:48):
Absolutely.
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(13:09):
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Darcy (13:16):
So O is all about your offer.
So once you know your marketreally well and you know the
problems that they have, ideallyyou should be able to create an
offer that fits like a hand ina glove to their problems.
And the key with your offer isthat it ideally needs to be
better or different from therest of your competition.
(13:37):
If it's the same as yourcompetition offered it pretty
much the same way in pretty muchthe same price, then ultimately
what you're looking at is youbetter get your running boots on
because you're headed for arace to the bottom on price.
That's the only way that canever end up.
If there's no differentiatingfact, your buyer knows they can
come to you and go compareapples for apples and go pretty
much the same, just going totake the cheapest one, because
(13:57):
why wouldn't they right?
So once you've got your M, yourmarket problem, your O is your
offer which matches thoseproblems perfectly and you're
different or better from therest.
Imagine, vanessa, I said to youthen hey, go out there and make
some cold calls, go approachthe market, here's all their
problems in a specialization andhere's the perfect solution to
match it.
You're starting to think, okay,I could probably get on this.
(14:18):
You're still not the stick ofdynamite to blow it off, but I'm
pretty keen to get on the phonehere, okay, cool.
The third thing you want tounderstand is R, which stands
for return on investment, roiMeaning.
Do you clearly know, and howmuch do you genuinely believe,
that if your buyers buy thisthing to solve that problem,
that they're going to be gettinga good return on investment on
the money they spent?
(14:39):
What you want to know andbelieve if you do the napkin
maths around it, somehow, insome way, whatever there's
different ways we go about this,probably for a different
webinar but what you want tounderstand is that there's at
least a five to one ratio returnon investment to what they
spent in terms of when they makethat buying decision.
So if you look at it and go, Ireckon if you give me $1, I
could easily make you $5 back.
(15:00):
Or if you're going to spend$10,000 with us, but you're
definitely going to make atleast $50 back, you're going to
spend $100,000 with us over thenext 12 months.
You guarantee we're going toget you $500,000 back.
Just based on the data thatwe've run, then you know Ideally
what do you want to get to tomake it an absolute no-brainer
is 10 to 1.
So somewhere between 5 and 10to 1 is a really good spot to
sit for your ROI and you need toknow and believe that's the
(15:22):
case when people work with youor buy your product or buy your
service.
Anything more than that and itactually starts to become a
little bit unbelievable.
Ness (15:29):
Yeah.
Darcy (15:30):
And the market actually tends to notice that and go eh.
Ness (15:33):
Yeah, we see that Like make a million dollars in three
months.
Darcy (15:36):
Exactly?
Yeah, not true, right?
As opposed to multiply yourincome by 1.4, add 40% to what
you're already earning, peoplego.
It's within range.
Yeah, I don't mind that, right?
Okay, cool.
So we have our market and weunderstand their problems and
they're in a specialization.
We have an offer to match thatmarket.
We know there's a clear ROI onwhat we're going to sell that
(15:57):
market and what we're going tooffer them.
The fourth part is that you wantto make sure that you're
talking to people who can Eexecute on the decision makers
and decision makers.
We include this part in themore magnet because we know for
sure, vanessa, so many peopleyou and I included have had
awesome sales conversations withpeople in the past.
It's an absolute smack out ofthe park.
Everyone's happy and then itturns out after four and a half
(16:18):
months of deliberation, youweren't even talking to the
decision maker yet, and so thatcan really stick a fork in
things.
But here's the thing, if I saidto you, vanessa, we know the
market, we're in aspecialization, we understand
their problems, we've got anoffer that fits like a hand in a
glove and it's better ordifferent from anything else out
there.
We've clearly calculated theROI and we know how to explain
that to our buyers.
Oh and, by the way, everysingle person you're going to be
(16:39):
talking to is a decision maker.
How quickly would you want toget on the phone?
Ness (16:42):
Absolutely, I always remember.
I remember the thinking early inmy business because I had this
really big challenge of steppingout of this corporate kind of
mindset of I've never soldanything.
Hello, selling things every day, concepts, ideas, getting
people across the line as aleader.
But in my head, apart from myMary Kay days when I sold one
(17:04):
lipstick at a party, I made $10.
I had this belief that I don'tknow sales, blah, blah.
But one of the key things Ithink that I really got to early
on in the business was knowingthat what I had to offer was
going to make a difference forthe person that I was got to
early on in the business wasknowing that what I had to offer
was going to make a differencefor the person that I was
talking to and that thoughtprocess around.
You know it is selfish of me tonot do everything I can to help
(17:27):
them make a buying decision,because I know the world of pain
they're in will continue ifthey don't have what I have to
top them.
You know this product that Ican give them that is going to
help them shift from pain towhere they want to be in their
business.
So it's that whole flipping itacross to and I think back when
(17:47):
that's been on point withclients over the course of my
previous business and ourcurrent business.
It really is.
It's just a no-brainer.
The conversation flows, peoplesay you know, it just becomes I
can't.
I can't not sell to you becauseI know this is going to be the
thing that you absolutely needand it's going to get you where
you need to go.
Darcy (18:08):
Yep, I can't not sell to you.
And then they're sitting therethinking, well, I can't not buy,
so where do we sign?
Ness (18:14):
Exactly.
So I love that perspective,darcy, because one of the things
we talk to our clients aboutall the time is looking through
the lens of a model helps youstep out of the emotion of it
and really kind of step abovewhat's going on.
Because I think that when we'rein the thick of it, we're in
the mud when we're living.
(18:34):
So you know the people who sayit's so hard out there at the
moment.
They're in the weeds and thiskind of thing allows you, I
believe, to step back and lookat it and go okay, if I were to
do a little bit of a processhere where I jotted down what is
it, you know, do we understandthe specialisation?
Could we articulate that reallyquickly and easily to anyone
(18:56):
else?
You know what is our offer, howdoes it?
And then the ROI and you knoweach of those to really do that.
It's like that you know healthcheck around.
Where are we at through thisprocess there?
Darcy (19:07):
you go.
Ness (19:07):
It means that we can actually be a little bit more
objective in the way that welook at our business, and what I
love about that is that stopsus from being caught into the
belief system of other peoplewho say danger, it's awful
People going at us and nobody'sgot any money.
And exactly what you said atthe beginning.
I remember hearing about thatin one of the money courses that
I did.
It's like it's not like allthis money's just left the world
(19:30):
, it's just the people who haveit.
Like it's still there.
Yes, the money still exists.
Darcy (19:35):
In fact, they're printing more of it.
Ness (19:36):
Exactly yes.
The money?
Darcy (19:37):
still exists.
In fact, they're printing moreof it.
Ness (19:38):
Exactly yes, so the money will always be there.
It's about how do you accesswhat's out there, and I think
what you've stepped us throughin this model the more model,
with the lovely story of thelamb man- yes, do you ever
forget that yes business ownersand salespeople the opportunity
(20:00):
to think about it through adifferent perspective that steps
out of buying into the agendaof COVID.
like everything I started withCOVID, market economy Over time
things will shift.
It just does.
You only have to look at theshare market over the last you
know how many hundreds of yearsand it will always bounce back.
Business will always bounceback.
Something will always come.
But I think the differencebetween those who are still in
(20:20):
business and able to create anopportunity is to be able to be
objective about what's going onand create change based on what
they observe.
Well said yeah.
So I'd love to.
Just before we wrap up, I justwant to come back to this
rejection concept, and I knowthat for me early in business,
(20:42):
that was a big thing.
It was like oh, I'm reallybeing annoying and people don't
want to talk to me.
What happens if they don't likeme, all that kind of stuff.
So what's your best piece ofadvice other than this model
around this concept aboutrejection in sales?
Because I would have to saythat, from all the people that
I've spoken to at a peer levelwho have struggled with sales,
(21:05):
the rejection thing, whether wesay it out loud or not is
actually one of the, becauseit's a core human need.
Isn't it to be accepted and tobe?
Darcy (21:13):
liked.
Ness (21:14):
And so how do you get out of your own way when you're
fearful of rejection, other thandoing a process like this?
So, because I know you know thepsychology, the human
behavioural, and that's yourspecialty as well, what do you
think that would be?
Darcy (21:27):
Give me an example of an answer that you're looking for
here, because there's multipledifferent ways I can take this.
Ness (21:33):
I guess that whole thing when I think back to early days
in my business, some of thegaming gamification of things is
to actually have a failstrategy.
Just go out and seek some no's.
Get over that fear that peopleare going to say no to you.
Another thing I learned off youand Steve put the 50 cent piece
31 times and it will never comeup with heads 31 times, tails
(21:57):
31 times.
It constantly changes and sothat was a huge thing for me
around sales, because you can gono, no, and then there'll be a
yes.
You go yes and then you canguarantee you're going to get a
no.
And I think the day we did thatin a training room together it
came out, someone recorded howmany times it went heads and
someone recorded how many tailsand it was about, you know,
(22:17):
around 15, 16.
Darcy (22:19):
Yeah, yeah.
Ness (22:21):
So what's the little mental tricks that help us to
just put it into perspective andgo it's okay.
It's okay Not, the world isn'trejecting us because of this.
Darcy (22:30):
Yeah, I think the key is understanding that rejection is
information, is understandingthat rejection is information.
So, if you have a product thatyou're selling and you're
getting rejected on it often, tobring it back to the more
magnet although that was myintention here, but to bring it
back to that then it helps yourealize there's one of these
four that we're clearly missing.
(22:51):
Yeah, yeah, and that aside, nowyou could use any model that
you're using to experiencerejection, or experience the
putting the product out thereand seeing how it goes, throwing
it out to the market andletting the wolves have at it,
so to speak, when people getannoyed at you or they say no or
whatever it may be.
If you can understand whythey're annoyed or why they said
(23:11):
no, then all it does is giveyou information to leverage into
the next call that's going tomake you better, or leverage
into the product to make it evenbetter, or leverage into the
way that you're marketing theproduct to make it even better.
So you can never lose on makinga sales call.
You can't.
There's no way you can lose.
You either win a deal or youlearn why someone didn't buy it,
and then you adapt accordingly.
(23:32):
How good is that.
The tough thing, though I dounderstand the tough thing is
realizing you're the human beingat the center of it all, having
to make these calls and ifyou're taking that rejection
personally, all it says is thatyou're holding yourself worth
around.
What you have Meaning.
If they rejected the productthat you have, they're rejecting
(23:54):
you.
That's not the case at all.
It's just not.
People are rejecting theproduct that you have.
They're rejecting you.
Yeah, and that's not the caseat all.
Yeah, it's just not.
People are rejecting theproduct.
Ness (24:01):
They'll forget about you 10 seconds later, but you tend
to remember them for the next 10years if they have a crack at
you.
Darcy (24:04):
That's right, right, but all they're doing is rejecting
the product.
And here's the thing they maybe even rejecting your pitch,
yeah yeah, but you, that's stillnot you.
You're you are not your pitch.
You're you that you're theperson who made the pitch, but
you're not the pitch, if thatmakes sense.
So I don't think anyone canever have any hope of ever
touching the real you when itcomes to rejecting you on a
(24:25):
sales call.
Just can't be touched.
They can only reject your offer, your pitch, your product,
whatever it may be, but they'llnever reject you.
They can't.
The same way, you can't everreject them.
It's not possible.
Ness (24:35):
It's funny, actually, as you're saying that, what jumps
into my mind is when you go, notthat I go to McDonald's, but
that whole do you want frieswith that kind of concept?
Darcy (24:43):
Yeah.
Ness (24:43):
Like the pimply 16-year-old who could have been
one of my kids at any stage inlife.
Darcy (24:48):
Yes.
Ness (24:49):
He says, do you want fries with that?
And I go, no thanks he's, Iknow nothing about them.
I'm not rejecting them.
Darcy (24:54):
Exactly You're just rejecting the prize.
Ness (24:55):
Imagine if you're on the counter at Macca's and everyone
who said no to you won't prizeyou that You're like, went home
and went.
Nobody likes me.
Darcy (25:02):
Yeah, exactly.
Ness (25:04):
You know, I think sometimes when you put it into
the, you know what's the crazyside of the way that we hold
ourselves and our ego so tightly.
Hold on to that right.
So it tightly hold on to thatright.
So it's a bit of lightnessrequired in that like how.
And that's what I love aboutyou know the what I've had to do
with you and steve over theyears around the gamification,
around sales and having fun withit and the sales game when
(25:26):
we're in the room together, youknow, with like chips and trying
to like.
It was fun and yeah I think thatduring times like the
challenging times and I'm notundermining that there aren't
challenging times, because youknow it is you talk to people.
There are people struggling outthere, more so than what they
have been in the past, but takeourselves lightly.
Darcy (25:48):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
If you take yourself tooseriously in this game, you're
stuffed.
Ness (25:52):
I know yeah.
And I think about, you know,watching my son and I used to
watch that show around theproperty, the Australian one, I
can't remember what it's called,but it had the just the
confidence of those people whowere getting out there selling
these multi-million dollarSydney properties.
It's just like they're Teflon.
Yes, you know, there is nothingin them that walks away going.
(26:15):
Oh, maybe they don't like me.
Darcy (26:17):
Yes.
Ness (26:17):
It's just fascinating to see the human behaviour behind
it.
But that is a whole otherpodcast episode for sure yeah.
I love this more model and Ireally appreciate you sharing
that with us and I wonder, likeI feel like for me, if Nicky
and I were to sit down and workour way through that, like that
might be something that weschedule a bit of a block of
time in our calendar for.
(26:38):
But, if somebody's listening towhat we're talking about today,
you know have gone on a coupleof different angles.
What would be a great startingpoint for them if they are
experiencing tough environmentout there, what's the one thing
that you would suggest they doin the next 24 hours that's
actionable, that could startthem on the journey.
Darcy (27:04):
Love it.
Call the last 10 people thatyou sold to and ask them what
were the challenges andfrustrations and pain points you
were experiencing before weactually met.
Ness (27:08):
Okay.
Darcy (27:09):
And get the clear understanding direct from your
market in terms of the languagethey use to describe the
challenges and frustrations thatled them to actually reach out
and buy something.
Because that's the gold.
Like if you can uncover thoseexact words that people are
typically using.
That's your sales pitch.
You just go straight toeveryone, like them, use similar
language and go hey, a lot ofpeople, a lot of your peers, are
experiencing A, B and C,Curious to know if you've got a
(27:32):
bit of the same going on.
And they go yeah, and you gogreat.
Well, those people bought this,solved it.
Would you like to have a look?
Makes it a whole lot easier.
The only other option that youhave is guesswork and your
opinion and your assumptionabout what the market may or may
not be saying and what youthink their problems are.
But if you do that, actuallywhat you often end up with is
just the problems you might'vehad at some stage.
(27:53):
In fact, there's almost nothingelse you could possibly end up
with other than that, if you'reassuming.
So I'd rather actually get thedata.
Let the data speak, let theopinions of your buyers speak so
much more than just what youropinion is and what you think
should be the problems thatthey're experiencing.
Ness (28:08):
I love that.
Darcy (28:08):
Give them a call.
Make 10 phone calls.
Ness (28:10):
Yep, okay, then take you up on that challenge.
Darcy (28:13):
Okay, I'm going to take you up on that challenge.
Yeah, done Good work.
Ness (28:14):
Amazing.
Thank you so much for your timetoday, darcy.
So much gold in ourconversation and I always love
our conversations, so reallyappreciate you coming on to this
solo episode without Nicky, butI know she'll be listening back
and getting so much value fromthis as well.
So thanks, darcy, it's awesome.
Darcy (28:31):
Thanks for having me.
Ness (28:32):
Okay, see you Bye.
Thanks for listening to today'sep.
If you loved what you heard,connect with us over on LinkedIn
and let's continue theconversation over there.
Did you hear you can now buyour book Healthy Hustle the new
blueprint to thrive in businessand life, at healthyhustlecomau.
(28:52):
Want us to speak to your teamor run a workshop on healthy
hustle in your workplace?
Send us an email, or go oldschool and give us a call to
discuss.
Until next time, happylistening and here's to thriving
in business and life.
Welcome to the Smart Business Growth Podcast with
Nicky and Ness.
We would like to acknowledgethe traditional custodians of
country, the Turrbal andBunurong people of Brisbane and
Melbourne respectively, whereNicky and I both work and live,
both work and live.
It makes me so happy tointroduce our guest this week on
(00:30):
the podcast, Darcy Smyth.
Darcy's been obsessed with onething more than any other since
the age of 10, and that's thehuman mind.
He's fascinated by why we dowhat we do and why we buy what
we buy.
He's been working in the salestraining and mentoring field for
10 plus years, and this iswhere Nicky and I have both met
(00:51):
him.
Darcy's been my initial earlydays sales trainer, sales mentor
coach extraordinaire, whoreally helped me shift my
mindset away from, you know, notactually making any money in my
business my first business forthe first three months, lots of
coffee opportunities though intoreally understanding the
(01:11):
mentality behind sales andunderstanding why people buy and
how to make a businesssuccessful.
And then, of course, that'sbeen built on since.
Nicky and I have come togetherback in the day then as well,
and I do just love how alignedDarcy's selling style and
methodology is with ours.
(01:32):
So he takes care of all new andexisting teams on the Outband
platform, which is through abusiness he runs with the
fabulous Mr Steve Claydon and heis also the father of a nearly
two-year-old daughter, and anyspare time that he gets devoted
entirely to the golf course,with very little improvement
overall.
I love hearing the golf stories, so you're in for a treat.
(01:54):
Today, darcy steps us through areally clear model.
It's called the Moore Magnetand that is anywhere you are in
business to be able to stop andidentify what the blocks or
barriers are to you being ableto make sales.
And we also touched on throughthe conversation and then a
little bit more in depth at theend, this whole rejection
(02:15):
concept and how to overcome that.
So if you've ever resonatedwith the challenge of being
rejected when somebody says noto your offer, you definitely
want to listen in to this one.
For the reframe, let's getstraight into it.
Today is a little bit differentin that you won't hear Nicky's
voice or see her on video, soI'm running solo with the
(02:37):
fabulous Darcy Smyth.
Thank you so much for joiningme today, darcy.
Darcy (02:41):
Thanks for having me.
Vanessa, Appreciate it.
Ness (02:43):
So welcome and, as I said in the intro, like we've known
each other for a very long timeand you have probably taught me
the basis of everything I knowabout sales.
Darcy (02:53):
I take that as a compliment.
I hope it's set you up well.
It is, I'm still in business.
Ness (02:57):
So here we are all these years later and we know that you
know you are an incrediblementor in this space and have
definitely for me and I canspeak on my behalf because Nick
is not here but it hasdefinitely made a big impact on
how I approach sales because Ilove.
The one thing that you taughtme in the early days was all
(03:18):
about what problem are yousolving?
And it's a beautiful approach tohow to help people and how to
make sure that you are solving aproblem for someone and they're
paying you for that, so that'ssomething that has always stuck
with me, darcy.
And then of course, there's,just like layers upon layers of
other pieces of gold that Ipicked up along the way, but I
thought that we could kick offperhaps with a question in
(03:40):
relation to.
You know, we are post-COVID,obviously, you know.
As somebody was saying, though,in January or February it'll be
like five years since it allstarted.
Darcy (03:50):
That is crazy.
Ness (03:52):
So but right, you know, in 2024, there's economic and
market business impacts that arehappening.
I notice, in a lot of thegroups that I'm in on social
media, people jump in and talkabout how hard business is, how
hard it is to get sales.
You know, depends on whichperspective you're listening to,
right, but I think there ismomentum out there in the way
(04:13):
that media talk to us about theissues in the world.
So, from your perspective, inthe world of sales, how has the
landscape changed over the past?
You know, four to five years,since all of this has happened?
Darcy (04:26):
Yeah, appreciate it and thanks for having me today.
You're welcome.
So yeah, we're in aninteresting spot, sales-wise,
economy-wise, you're right.
It does depend on whichindustry you look into and who
you're listening to as towhether things are super
difficult or just a little bitdifficult or just normal
business difficult.
But the main thing overall isthat the deals are still there
(04:47):
to make Sales, are still thereto be closed.
They do just tend to take thatextra little bit of nurture,
that extra little bit offollow-up I don't want to say
little bit of follow-up thatextra bulk of follow-up and a
little bit more patience for thedeals to come over the line.
When they do so, money neverreally evaporates.
When people say that money'stight, that doesn't mean
anything.
All that ever means is thatmoney is just being held by a
(05:11):
particular part of the market orby a particular set of people
and they're not really spendingit all that much.
But sooner or later it actuallybecomes detrimental for those
people to hold onto that moneybecause a lot of the time that
money is made by investing inthings.
So the longer they're holdingonto it, the less investments
they're making and therefore themoney is actually starting to
cost them by not investing it.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, totally so.
It's not long before that dambursts through and those people
(05:34):
holding onto the money go.
Okay, let's actually put thisback out into the market again
and away we go.
That's a very simplistic way oflooking at it, but it's a
pretty true context to seethrough all of this.
Right Now, when that's the case,you've got a couple of options
so you can basically continue tobe in a market that sells
something that is nice to have.
And if you're selling somethingthat's nice to have when
(05:56):
there's not so much moneyfloating about, then all you can
really do is nurture, add a tonof value, be there, be present,
be seen, be visible, so thatwhen the money does turn back on
again in quotation marks, thenyou'll be the first person they
think of when they're thinkingoh wow, I need a gold bumper bar
for my car or I need you know,I need, whatever it may be
(06:18):
crystal laced shoelaces.
You know like I'll buy it andthat's the case, right?
But the other way that Ibelieve is valuable,
particularly in a market likethis, is you really?
It gives you the chance toreally assess how much of your
business is a need to havebusiness, because if you're a
need to have business, thenyou'll flourish when times are
tough and you'll actuallyflourish when times are good.
You'll flourish all the time.
The ideal business that youshould have is one that is
(06:41):
always a need to have product.
If business that you shouldhave is one that is always a
need to have product, if youdon't believe that you're a need
to have product, the way youcan look at that is that you
simply don't understand the deepproblems that you're solving
for a market on both anindividual level so for them,
the individual but also from anROI perspective, literally a
logical and financial level.
(07:01):
If you don't know the problemsthat you're solving and that you
can't add that up for people,you'll always be seen as a nice
to have and not a need to have.
Please let me know if I'm goingon a rant here.
No, Making sense Right, themodel that we teach.
For this is what I sort of cameup with this around about sort
of 60 days ago.
I was putting these thoughtstogether around.
Particularly in a toughermarket, the thing that people
(07:30):
experience a lot more isrejection, right?
And I thought, well, what arethe keys to be in place that if
these were in place, thenrejection wouldn't be
experienced?
What would be the ultimatebusiness to create?
Right?
And when you think about that,if you knew you weren't going to
get rejected?
So if I ask you this, ness, ifyou knew that the first person
you were going to call up todaywas going to say yes to whatever
you offered whether that's ameeting or a product or a sale
or whatever is they're going tosay yes, how quickly would you
get on the phone?
Really quick, really quick.
If you knew that you were goingto do that for tomorrow, the
(07:53):
next week, the next month, thenext six months and 12 months.
After that, all you were goingto hear was yeses, what do you
think we need?
Probably need to stick a bit ofdynamite in between your left
ear and the phone and blow itoff, and blow your head off in
the process.
Right, a good salesperson wouldbe like.
Just sign me up for that.
Ness (08:08):
Okay.
Darcy (08:08):
So the problem isn't that we are afraid of going outbound
or that we're afraid of, youknow, putting our products out
there, or that we're afraid ofhaving sales conversations.
That's not the problem.
The problem is we're afraid ofrejection.
That's why people aren't takingaction.
That's why people are afraid ofjumping on the phones.
That's why it feels harder in atougher market.
What you're saying when you'resaying this feels harder is I
feel like I'm going toexperience more rejection.
(08:29):
That's really what it boilsdown to.
So the four things that youneed to understand in order to
not have any sense of rejectionor not fear that rejection four
things.
We refer to it as what's calledthe more magnet M-O-R-E.
More magnet Meaning.
If you have these four thingsin place, m-o-r-e, then you'll
have clients that havemagnetized towards you and you
(08:50):
won't need to feel like you'rethe squeamish, awkward sales
convincer anymore, which is agood one.
So the first thing that youneed to have in place is you
need to understand your market,and when we talk about
understanding your market, werefer to a couple of things here
the your market.
We refer to a couple of thingshere.
The first thing is that youunderstand the specialization
that you're in.
So you can specialize in twodifferent ways.
You can specialize by focusingon a particular part of the
(09:12):
market.
In a lot of work that we domyself and my business partner,
steve Clayton in the work thatwe do, we have a specialized
niche of 10 to 50 million dollarconstruction and manufacturing
companies, project-centriccompanies using HubSpot as their
CRM Completely blue ocean forus.
No one else exists there.
We dominate that space.
We're the go-to for all ofthose businesses and they come
(09:33):
to us.
They're magnetized to usbecause of that.
Okay, if you're not going tospecialize in a particular part
of the market, the only otherthing you can do is specialize
in your product.
And if you're going specialisein the product, you need to be
what we refer to as what'scalled the lamb man.
The lamb man comes from this.
Every Saturday morning, myselfand my partner Ash, we go down
to the Kiwana markets, likesunny coast markets.
(09:54):
Here we get our fresh veg andour fresh meat and all this sort
of stuff.
You know very sunshine coastthing to do.
You know everything's organicand spray free and whatnot right
, all the very little.
Ness (10:10):
It's special and precious, isn't it Vanessa?
Anyway, just eat a white breadsandwich, exactly From.
Darcy (10:12):
Bunnings?
Yeah, exactly.
So there's a guy there Kerry ishis name, and he's the man we
buy our lamb from every week,and this man is obsessed with
lamb.
All the signs out the front sayQueensland's best lamb.
Australia's best lamb,australia's best Dorper lamb
you'll never find anywhere,whatever you shake his hand, and
to him lamb is the world Like.
He even looks a little bit likea little lamb, like he is, just
(10:34):
he's obsessed with lamb rightNow.
He doesn't rock up to thosemarkets and go.
My ideal customer is a SunshineCoast based 40 year oldyear-old
male that has a dog and whateverhe's like.
I'm just obsessed with lamb.
I just love my product.
So if you're going to notspecialize in a particular part
of the market, you need tospecialize in your product and
(10:55):
you need to think that yourproduct is the greatest thing
since sliced bread, and you needto sing that from the rooftops
and back that hill five timesmore than you even think you are
right now.
Yeah, like it needs to become.
You need to become a walkingtalking lamb man as far as your
product is concerned.
Yeah, that's the only way youovercome the fact that you
haven't specialised into aparticular market segment just
(11:17):
yet.
Right.
So that's the first part about M.
You need to understand yourspecialisation.
Who do you specialise inserving?
The next thing you want tounderstand about your market is
the problems that areexperienced by that market, and
we refer to this as what'scalled the three-headed monster.
So the three-headed monster isthe three problems that your
buyer always has at least one of.
I'll say that again your threeproblems that your buyer always
(11:40):
has at least one of.
So if I was an accountant, Imight say to you, vanessa,
people come to us at ouraccounting firm because they're
experiencing one, two or evenall three of these problems.
First problem they only everhear from their accountant when
there's a bill to pay or badnews to be delivered.
Second problem you don't haveany understanding around how you
(12:01):
can actually use the money inyour business account to make
strategic investments into otherbusinesses and other futures.
A lot of accounts just countthe money.
They don't actuallystrategically advise you.
And then the third is that youdon't have any access to
government grants available andfree money for your industry.
The accountant doesn't actuallythink that's his or her
priority to actually teach you.
They think you should go and dothat yourself.
Curious, vanessa, any of thatgoing on for you.
You'd hear that and go yeah, abit of all three going on there
with my account and I think whathave you got to offer, Right?
(12:21):
So that's the M, the more magnetof the more magnet, which is
knowing your market.
What's the specialization andwhat three main problems does
that market run into?
That if you spoke to them onany given day, you can be
guaranteed that they're going tohave at least one of those.
That's really key With me sofar, or am I?
Ness (12:38):
Absolutely Loving it.
Excellent, I'm loving it.
I'm making notes oh that'sawesome, notes.
How can we apply this in ourown business?
Darcy (12:44):
There you go, love it.
It's the best part aboutrunning podcasts, isn't it?
You get to just learn as you go.
Ness (12:48):
Absolutely.
Have you heard?
Our book Healthy Hustle, thenew blueprint to thrive in
business and life, is availableright now to purchase.
In Healthy Hustle, we take youthrough real-world, practical
and achievable steps to move youaway from unhealthy hustle to a
place of happiness and living,whilst continuing to achieve
(13:09):
incredible business results.
Order your copy now athealthyhustlecomau.
Darcy (13:16):
So O is all about your offer.
So once you know your marketreally well and you know the
problems that they have, ideallyyou should be able to create an
offer that fits like a hand ina glove to their problems.
And the key with your offer isthat it ideally needs to be
better or different from therest of your competition.
(13:37):
If it's the same as yourcompetition offered it pretty
much the same way in pretty muchthe same price, then ultimately
what you're looking at is youbetter get your running boots on
because you're headed for arace to the bottom on price.
That's the only way that canever end up.
If there's no differentiatingfact, your buyer knows they can
come to you and go compareapples for apples and go pretty
much the same, just going totake the cheapest one, because
(13:57):
why wouldn't they right?
So once you've got your M, yourmarket problem, your O is your
offer which matches thoseproblems perfectly and you're
different or better from therest.
Imagine, vanessa, I said to youthen hey, go out there and make
some cold calls, go approachthe market, here's all their
problems in a specialization andhere's the perfect solution to
match it.
You're starting to think, okay,I could probably get on this.
(14:18):
You're still not the stick ofdynamite to blow it off, but I'm
pretty keen to get on the phonehere, okay, cool.
The third thing you want tounderstand is R, which stands
for return on investment, roiMeaning.
Do you clearly know, and howmuch do you genuinely believe,
that if your buyers buy thisthing to solve that problem,
that they're going to be gettinga good return on investment on
the money they spent?
(14:39):
What you want to know andbelieve if you do the napkin
maths around it, somehow, insome way, whatever there's
different ways we go about this,probably for a different
webinar but what you want tounderstand is that there's at
least a five to one ratio returnon investment to what they
spent in terms of when they makethat buying decision.
So if you look at it and go, Ireckon if you give me $1, I
could easily make you $5 back.
(15:00):
Or if you're going to spend$10,000 with us, but you're
definitely going to make atleast $50 back, you're going to
spend $100,000 with us over thenext 12 months.
You guarantee we're going toget you $500,000 back.
Just based on the data thatwe've run, then you know Ideally
what do you want to get to tomake it an absolute no-brainer
is 10 to 1.
So somewhere between 5 and 10to 1 is a really good spot to
sit for your ROI and you need toknow and believe that's the
(15:22):
case when people work with youor buy your product or buy your
service.
Anything more than that and itactually starts to become a
little bit unbelievable.
Ness (15:29):
Yeah.
Darcy (15:30):
And the market actually tends to notice that and go eh.
Ness (15:33):
Yeah, we see that Like make a million dollars in three
months.
Darcy (15:36):
Exactly?
Yeah, not true, right?
As opposed to multiply yourincome by 1.4, add 40% to what
you're already earning, peoplego.
It's within range.
Yeah, I don't mind that, right?
Okay, cool.
So we have our market and weunderstand their problems and
they're in a specialization.
We have an offer to match thatmarket.
We know there's a clear ROI onwhat we're going to sell that
(15:57):
market and what we're going tooffer them.
The fourth part is that you wantto make sure that you're
talking to people who can Eexecute on the decision makers
and decision makers.
We include this part in themore magnet because we know for
sure, vanessa, so many peopleyou and I included have had
awesome sales conversations withpeople in the past.
It's an absolute smack out ofthe park.
Everyone's happy and then itturns out after four and a half
(16:18):
months of deliberation, youweren't even talking to the
decision maker yet, and so thatcan really stick a fork in
things.
But here's the thing, if I saidto you, vanessa, we know the
market, we're in aspecialization, we understand
their problems, we've got anoffer that fits like a hand in a
glove and it's better ordifferent from anything else out
there.
We've clearly calculated theROI and we know how to explain
that to our buyers.
Oh and, by the way, everysingle person you're going to be
(16:39):
talking to is a decision maker.
How quickly would you want toget on the phone?
Ness (16:42):
Absolutely, I always remember.
I remember the thinking early inmy business because I had this
really big challenge of steppingout of this corporate kind of
mindset of I've never soldanything.
Hello, selling things every day, concepts, ideas, getting
people across the line as aleader.
But in my head, apart from myMary Kay days when I sold one
(17:04):
lipstick at a party, I made $10.
I had this belief that I don'tknow sales, blah, blah.
But one of the key things Ithink that I really got to early
on in the business was knowingthat what I had to offer was
going to make a difference forthe person that I was got to
early on in the business wasknowing that what I had to offer
was going to make a differencefor the person that I was
talking to and that thoughtprocess around.
You know it is selfish of me tonot do everything I can to help
(17:27):
them make a buying decision,because I know the world of pain
they're in will continue ifthey don't have what I have to
top them.
You know this product that Ican give them that is going to
help them shift from pain towhere they want to be in their
business.
So it's that whole flipping itacross to and I think back when
(17:47):
that's been on point withclients over the course of my
previous business and ourcurrent business.
It really is.
It's just a no-brainer.
The conversation flows, peoplesay you know, it just becomes I
can't.
I can't not sell to you becauseI know this is going to be the
thing that you absolutely needand it's going to get you where
you need to go.
Darcy (18:08):
Yep, I can't not sell to you.
And then they're sitting therethinking, well, I can't not buy,
so where do we sign?
Ness (18:14):
Exactly.
So I love that perspective,darcy, because one of the things
we talk to our clients aboutall the time is looking through
the lens of a model helps youstep out of the emotion of it
and really kind of step abovewhat's going on.
Because I think that when we'rein the thick of it, we're in
the mud when we're living.
(18:34):
So you know the people who sayit's so hard out there at the
moment.
They're in the weeds and thiskind of thing allows you, I
believe, to step back and lookat it and go okay, if I were to
do a little bit of a processhere where I jotted down what is
it, you know, do we understandthe specialisation?
Could we articulate that reallyquickly and easily to anyone
(18:56):
else?
You know what is our offer, howdoes it?
And then the ROI and you knoweach of those to really do that.
It's like that you know healthcheck around.
Where are we at through thisprocess there?
Darcy (19:07):
you go.
Ness (19:07):
It means that we can actually be a little bit more
objective in the way that welook at our business, and what I
love about that is that stopsus from being caught into the
belief system of other peoplewho say danger, it's awful
People going at us and nobody'sgot any money.
And exactly what you said atthe beginning.
I remember hearing about thatin one of the money courses that
I did.
It's like it's not like allthis money's just left the world
(19:30):
, it's just the people who haveit.
Like it's still there.
Yes, the money still exists.
Darcy (19:35):
In fact, they're printing more of it.
Ness (19:36):
Exactly yes.
The money?
Darcy (19:37):
still exists.
In fact, they're printing moreof it.
Ness (19:38):
Exactly yes, so the money will always be there.
It's about how do you accesswhat's out there, and I think
what you've stepped us throughin this model the more model,
with the lovely story of thelamb man- yes, do you ever
forget that yes business ownersand salespeople the opportunity
(20:00):
to think about it through adifferent perspective that steps
out of buying into the agendaof COVID.
like everything I started withCOVID, market economy Over time
things will shift.
It just does.
You only have to look at theshare market over the last you
know how many hundreds of yearsand it will always bounce back.
Business will always bounceback.
Something will always come.
But I think the differencebetween those who are still in
(20:20):
business and able to create anopportunity is to be able to be
objective about what's going onand create change based on what
they observe.
Well said yeah.
So I'd love to.
Just before we wrap up, I justwant to come back to this
rejection concept, and I knowthat for me early in business,
(20:42):
that was a big thing.
It was like oh, I'm reallybeing annoying and people don't
want to talk to me.
What happens if they don't likeme, all that kind of stuff.
So what's your best piece ofadvice other than this model
around this concept aboutrejection in sales?
Because I would have to saythat, from all the people that
I've spoken to at a peer levelwho have struggled with sales,
(21:05):
the rejection thing, whether wesay it out loud or not is
actually one of the, becauseit's a core human need.
Isn't it to be accepted and tobe?
Darcy (21:13):
liked.
Ness (21:14):
And so how do you get out of your own way when you're
fearful of rejection, other thandoing a process like this?
So, because I know you know thepsychology, the human
behavioural, and that's yourspecialty as well, what do you
think that would be?
Darcy (21:27):
Give me an example of an answer that you're looking for
here, because there's multipledifferent ways I can take this.
Ness (21:33):
I guess that whole thing when I think back to early days
in my business, some of thegaming gamification of things is
to actually have a failstrategy.
Just go out and seek some no's.
Get over that fear that peopleare going to say no to you.
Another thing I learned off youand Steve put the 50 cent piece
31 times and it will never comeup with heads 31 times, tails
(21:57):
31 times.
It constantly changes and sothat was a huge thing for me
around sales, because you can gono, no, and then there'll be a
yes.
You go yes and then you canguarantee you're going to get a
no.
And I think the day we did thatin a training room together it
came out, someone recorded howmany times it went heads and
someone recorded how many tailsand it was about, you know,
(22:17):
around 15, 16.
Darcy (22:19):
Yeah, yeah.
Ness (22:21):
So what's the little mental tricks that help us to
just put it into perspective andgo it's okay.
It's okay Not, the world isn'trejecting us because of this.
Darcy (22:30):
Yeah, I think the key is understanding that rejection is
information, is understandingthat rejection is information.
So, if you have a product thatyou're selling and you're
getting rejected on it often, tobring it back to the more
magnet although that was myintention here, but to bring it
back to that then it helps yourealize there's one of these
four that we're clearly missing.
(22:51):
Yeah, yeah, and that aside, nowyou could use any model that
you're using to experiencerejection, or experience the
putting the product out thereand seeing how it goes, throwing
it out to the market andletting the wolves have at it,
so to speak, when people getannoyed at you or they say no or
whatever it may be.
If you can understand whythey're annoyed or why they said
(23:11):
no, then all it does is giveyou information to leverage into
the next call that's going tomake you better, or leverage
into the product to make it evenbetter, or leverage into the
way that you're marketing theproduct to make it even better.
So you can never lose on makinga sales call.
You can't.
There's no way you can lose.
You either win a deal or youlearn why someone didn't buy it,
and then you adapt accordingly.
(23:32):
How good is that.
The tough thing, though I dounderstand the tough thing is
realizing you're the human beingat the center of it all, having
to make these calls and ifyou're taking that rejection
personally, all it says is thatyou're holding yourself worth
around.
What you have Meaning.
If they rejected the productthat you have, they're rejecting
(23:54):
you.
That's not the case at all.
It's just not.
People are rejecting theproduct that you have.
They're rejecting you.
Yeah, and that's not the caseat all.
Yeah, it's just not.
People are rejecting theproduct.
Ness (24:01):
They'll forget about you 10 seconds later, but you tend
to remember them for the next 10years if they have a crack at
you.
Darcy (24:04):
That's right, right, but all they're doing is rejecting
the product.
And here's the thing they maybe even rejecting your pitch,
yeah yeah, but you, that's stillnot you.
You're you are not your pitch.
You're you that you're theperson who made the pitch, but
you're not the pitch, if thatmakes sense.
So I don't think anyone canever have any hope of ever
touching the real you when itcomes to rejecting you on a
(24:25):
sales call.
Just can't be touched.
They can only reject your offer, your pitch, your product,
whatever it may be, but they'llnever reject you.
They can't.
The same way, you can't everreject them.
It's not possible.
Ness (24:35):
It's funny, actually, as you're saying that, what jumps
into my mind is when you go, notthat I go to McDonald's, but
that whole do you want frieswith that kind of concept?
Darcy (24:43):
Yeah.
Ness (24:43):
Like the pimply 16-year-old who could have been
one of my kids at any stage inlife.
Darcy (24:48):
Yes.
Ness (24:49):
He says, do you want fries with that?
And I go, no thanks he's, Iknow nothing about them.
I'm not rejecting them.
Darcy (24:54):
Exactly You're just rejecting the prize.
Ness (24:55):
Imagine if you're on the counter at Macca's and everyone
who said no to you won't prizeyou that You're like, went home
and went.
Nobody likes me.
Darcy (25:02):
Yeah, exactly.
Ness (25:04):
You know, I think sometimes when you put it into
the, you know what's the crazyside of the way that we hold
ourselves and our ego so tightly.
Hold on to that right.
So it tightly hold on to thatright.
So it's a bit of lightnessrequired in that like how.
And that's what I love aboutyou know the what I've had to do
with you and steve over theyears around the gamification,
around sales and having fun withit and the sales game when
(25:26):
we're in the room together, youknow, with like chips and trying
to like.
It was fun and yeah I think thatduring times like the
challenging times and I'm notundermining that there aren't
challenging times, because youknow it is you talk to people.
There are people struggling outthere, more so than what they
have been in the past, but takeourselves lightly.
Darcy (25:48):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
If you take yourself tooseriously in this game, you're
stuffed.
Ness (25:52):
I know yeah.
And I think about, you know,watching my son and I used to
watch that show around theproperty, the Australian one, I
can't remember what it's called,but it had the just the
confidence of those people whowere getting out there selling
these multi-million dollarSydney properties.
It's just like they're Teflon.
Yes, you know, there is nothingin them that walks away going.
(26:15):
Oh, maybe they don't like me.
Darcy (26:17):
Yes.
Ness (26:17):
It's just fascinating to see the human behaviour behind
it.
But that is a whole otherpodcast episode for sure yeah.
I love this more model and Ireally appreciate you sharing
that with us and I wonder, likeI feel like for me, if Nicky
and I were to sit down and workour way through that, like that
might be something that weschedule a bit of a block of
time in our calendar for.
(26:38):
But, if somebody's listening towhat we're talking about today,
you know have gone on a coupleof different angles.
What would be a great startingpoint for them if they are
experiencing tough environmentout there, what's the one thing
that you would suggest they doin the next 24 hours that's
actionable, that could startthem on the journey.
Darcy (27:04):
Love it.
Call the last 10 people thatyou sold to and ask them what
were the challenges andfrustrations and pain points you
were experiencing before weactually met.
Ness (27:08):
Okay.
Darcy (27:09):
And get the clear understanding direct from your
market in terms of the languagethey use to describe the
challenges and frustrations thatled them to actually reach out
and buy something.
Because that's the gold.
Like if you can uncover thoseexact words that people are
typically using.
That's your sales pitch.
You just go straight toeveryone, like them, use similar
language and go hey, a lot ofpeople, a lot of your peers, are
experiencing A, B and C,Curious to know if you've got a
(27:32):
bit of the same going on.
And they go yeah, and you gogreat.
Well, those people bought this,solved it.
Would you like to have a look?
Makes it a whole lot easier.
The only other option that youhave is guesswork and your
opinion and your assumptionabout what the market may or may
not be saying and what youthink their problems are.
But if you do that, actuallywhat you often end up with is
just the problems you might'vehad at some stage.
(27:53):
In fact, there's almost nothingelse you could possibly end up
with other than that, if you'reassuming.
So I'd rather actually get thedata.
Let the data speak, let theopinions of your buyers speak so
much more than just what youropinion is and what you think
should be the problems thatthey're experiencing.
Ness (28:08):
I love that.
Darcy (28:08):
Give them a call.
Make 10 phone calls.
Ness (28:10):
Yep, okay, then take you up on that challenge.
Darcy (28:13):
Okay, I'm going to take you up on that challenge.
Yeah, done Good work.
Ness (28:14):
Amazing.
Thank you so much for your timetoday, darcy.
So much gold in ourconversation and I always love
our conversations, so reallyappreciate you coming on to this
solo episode without Nicky, butI know she'll be listening back
and getting so much value fromthis as well.
So thanks, darcy, it's awesome.
Darcy (28:31):
Thanks for having me.
Ness (28:32):
Okay, see you Bye.
Thanks for listening to today'sep.
If you loved what you heard,connect with us over on LinkedIn
and let's continue theconversation over there.
Did you hear you can now buyour book Healthy Hustle the new
blueprint to thrive in businessand life, at healthyhustlecomau.
(28:52):
Want us to speak to your teamor run a workshop on healthy
hustle in your workplace?
Send us an email, or go oldschool and give us a call to
discuss.
Until next time, happylistening and here's to thriving
in business and life.
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