January 28, 2025 • 26 mins
In the final installment of the summer series revisiting season two's most popular episodes, Nicky and Ness dive into the core reasons people start their own businesses versus the often stark reality that follows. They discuss the importance of redefining success and aligning business goals with personal fulfillment to achieve a balanced work-life dynamic. The episode is packed with actionable advice on questioning default beliefs, setting new boundaries, and using practical tools to foster a healthier hustle. This engaging conversation encourages listeners to pause, reassess, and implement strategies for a more sustainable and fulfilling business journey.
Learn more about Nicky and Ness https://businesstogether.com.au
Buy a copy of Healthy Hustle: The New Blueprint to Thrive in Business & Life www.healthyhustle.com.au
Follow us on socials
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Facebook - @B2BusinessTogether
Connect on LinkedIn
Nicky LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/connectwithnicky/
Ness LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/vanessamedling/
Give us a call
Nicky Miklos-Woodley 0403 191 404
Vanessa (Ness) Medling 0400 226 875
Or send us an email hello@businesstogether.com.au
Music by Jules Miklos-Woodley
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ness (00:00):
Welcome back to our final installment of our summer series
of conversations, looking backon season two of the most
popular, most downloadedepisodes from our podcast, and
today this is one where Nickyand I dive deep into the core
reasons why people start theirown businesses and then the
(00:20):
reality check of what oftenfollows from that.
So we know that sometimes we canget lost in the day-to-day
grind of business and the stressof trying to get everything
done and just feeling like yougot a day job, rather than
looking to the vision that youheld when you started your
business.
It's a fabulous opportunity,especially at this time of the
(00:42):
year, to pause and reassess whatyour goals are and how they
align to your personal goals sothat you can live a fulfilled
and balanced work-life life.
We cover off the disconnectthat often people feel in
relation to the reality ofrunning a day-to-day business
and talk about the importance ofreally redefining success what
(01:05):
that looks like for you andhaving practical steps that you
can actually apply right nowinto finding a way to create
that balance.
We trust that you have enjoyedthe mini-series over summer.
We will be back in yourlistening ears again with a new
series from next week, but untilthen, enjoy again with a new
(01:27):
series from next week, but untilthen enjoy.
Welcome to the Smart BusinessGrowth Podcast with Nicky and
Ness.
We would like to acknowledgethe traditional custodians of
country, the Turrbal andBunurong people of Brisbane and
Melbourne respectively, whereNicky and I both work and live
(01:48):
so, ness, as we've talked aboutpreviously.
Nicky (01:49):
But for those of you who have missed it, we know that the
research shows there's threemain reasons that people
actually start their business.
They have a dream, a visionthat they want to bring to life,
a passion, or perhaps it's alifestyle choice.
They're sick of being somebodyelse's lackey.
They want to be their own boss.
(02:09):
They don't want the day jobanymore.
They want more time or optionof time with family, or they
really have seen that there's abetter way of doing it out in
the market.
They want to create the impactbecause they know that they can
do it better than what's outthere.
But we also know the realitythrough talking to business
owners, through working withCEOs, leaders, business owners,
directors, et cetera, that thereality is often untrue.
(02:33):
That's not the reason they wentinto.
Business doesn't become theirday-to-day.
Instead of having more timewith family, they have less.
They have a day job with lesspay and less time.
That's what the business hasturned into.
They've forgotten ordisconnected from the vision or
the why, and they might still bemaking that impact and doing it
as better or as good as peoplecompetitors out there.
(02:55):
But that real driving factor forwhy we go into business can be
lost, and I think what's reallyimportant about revisiting this
and having this conversation isthat we need to redefine what
success looks like.
I wonder how many of us havejust fallen in by default around
what we've been told by societyor those that have gone before
(03:15):
us about what a successfulbusiness actually looks like.
It's just become default, andNess and I really want to pop
the pause button for those ofyou that are listening and our
viewers to say hold on a second.
Have you consciously taken amoment to really think about
what does a successful businesslook like for me?
(03:36):
Because the reality is thatwhen you're in early days of
business, the four-hour workweekis a myth.
But when you're established inbusiness, like you are, and you
have a team and you have thesystems and you've got a culture
that's thriving and you've gotthe operating rhythms to support
that, actually the four-hourworkweek could become a reality
(03:58):
for you and it can connect youback to those other reasons that
you went into business.
Ness, what's your two centshere?
Ness (04:07):
It's really interesting.
It just comes off the back of acoaching session that I've had
today, which is just exactlythat, but for a leader, not
necessarily a business owneraround.
How do you define success inwhen going for a job?
So, when you apply forsomething, what are your success
measures?
Is it getting the job?
You fail if you don't.
But what about all the otherthings that you do along the way
(04:28):
?
And I think this really appliesin business as well, because
one of the examples I shared wasaround, say, a particular
dollar amount that you want tohit in revenue, and when we
start to tie ourselves into thisbelief that unless I get that
particular dollar amount, then Ifailed or I'm not good enough
or just all that stuff thatcomes into your head, we've
(04:49):
really got to step back and go.
What happens if it was $500under target?
Did you still fail?
It's that kind of thing aroundthis, challenging the beliefs,
and I think that it works reallywell, because when we start a
business, there are like gosh.
I remember reading thatfour-hour workweek book and
feeling like a complete loserbecause it just seemed so
(05:09):
impossible.
Now, four-hour workweek isn'tmy goal, however.
Now what I see in that is itgets you thinking about how
things could be done differently.
It's like saying to a businessowner act as if you're going to
sell this business in fiveyears' time.
What must you do between nowand then to get it to a business
owner act as if you're going tosell this business in five
years time.
What must you do between nowand then to get it to a point
where it's worthy of someonecoming along and paying a lot of
(05:31):
money to you to buy it?
Imagine if you worked like that, with no intention of selling,
and therefore you are creatingthe business that's going to be
profitable for you to be in it,that someone else would want to
buy, but maybe you don't want todo it.
So the four-hour workweek, Ithink asking ourselves a
question around okay, whathappens if it was a reality?
(05:51):
What would I do differently?
What decisions would I make?
How would I approach myday-to-day work?
Would I be more focused if Iknew I could only work for four
hours a week?
So it's really saying what arethe belief systems that you have
around business?
How could you like?
A lot of people think theycan't.
They have to double the effortin order to be able to double
(06:13):
the income, for example.
What happens if it was lesseffort?
Yeah, for double results.
Let's just really start toshake things up and look at
something that is completelyopposite to what you believe,
just to get you thinkingdifferently, because I think we
can get stuck.
We get stuck because we don'tstop to question our beliefs.
Nicky (06:33):
Yeah, and even what you said there around four hour work
week is not my goal, and forsome people it might be, for
others it's not.
And even to sell the businessexactly what you said around
that might not be my goal tosell the business but I think
the lesson or the insight totake here is that it's having a
business, as you said, thatcould be saleable, that is going
(06:53):
to for really good money if youchoose to do that.
It's.
You could work four hours ifyou choose to do that.
Because even if you set up thebusiness, say, for a four-hour
working week, then you can stilldo other cool things with that
time that are in the business.
Actually, what it does is ituntethers you from the
day-to-day whirlwind so you canstep into the place of your own
(07:13):
genius zone.
We've talked with businessowners that want to step out of
the day-to-day whirlwind becausethere's other things that they
can be doing that now excitethem more.
Another thing I see a lot isthat at first, a lot of things
about the business are reallyexciting, but we actually need
to create a business that'sboring because it's got
processes.
Success is replicable.
So if you, as the businessowner or senior leader are
(07:36):
looking for excitement withinthe day-to-day whirlwind of the
business.
You're actually not settingyour business up to fail.
Get the structure happening,get the routine, get the right
people in place so you can stepback and you can find the thing
that's exciting for you, foryour next, whatever that is,
albeit within the same businessstarting a new business.
Some people will step into moreconsulting roles or different
(07:57):
things.
There's no rules here, and Ithink that's probably one of the
big messages is that there areno rules.
You get to create your own, butoftentimes what happens is so
how do I even do that?
Because I don't even know whereto start.
Ness (08:10):
I think the other thing is we defend so valiantly what we
do If we have a belief systemaround that.
I think of it in a corporatesetting, like every single team
member that I've ever workedwith will say we need more staff
.
Nobody says, actually I thinkwe could lose a few staff in
here and do better.
(08:30):
It's a belief system, right.
We've got to challenge theconventional way of thinking and
so I think it's all the reasons, the excuses that I would have
I could.
I can't do it for-hour workweekbecause Everything that comes
after because is your beliefaround why that won't work and
we've got to really start tochallenge that and that can feel
really uncomfortable.
Nicky (08:51):
So that's probably a really good action to take
already is again whether youwant to do a four-hour workweek
or not.
That's not the point.
But if you finish that sentence, what comes up for you because
they're the areas of yourbusiness that you want to work
on to make sure that you've gotflexibility, you've got choice
of where you spend your time,and we often talk about the fact
that in the early days we aredoubling the effort for half the
(09:13):
reward.
If you think back to early daysin business, it's a slog.
We've got to hustle all of thatand it's very easy to stay in
that space If you don't pop thispause button and take a moment
to go hold up.
Do I need to be in the businessas much as I am?
What can change now?
Because oftentimes, as abusiness owner, we play many
roles, but we don't have to playas many as we did in the early
(09:36):
days.
That's one of the benefits ofexpanding and growing our
business and being anestablished business, and yet
it's really easy to just keepgoing with the status quo rather
than actually doing a bit of acircuit breaker to go.
Do I still need to do that, ordo I have someone else in my
team that can do it, or someoneelse I can outsource it, even if
they're not in my team rightnow.
And the exciting thing aboutbeing in business, or one of the
(09:59):
exciting things I think aboutbeing in business, or one of the
exciting things I think aboutbeing in business today, in 2024
, we have so many toolsavailable to us.
A coaching session I was just inthis morning was around.
How can I be more timeefficient?
I need to do the same Again.
It was with the leader, sameoutcome, with half the time.
Okay, what are the tools thatyou how can you replicate,
(10:20):
automate, what are the tools youcan use to shorten time?
It was like whoa, these thingsare easy to do and right in
front of me.
I didn't even think of.
It is what the leader said tome.
So, again, it's challengingthinking, have you?
Ness (10:32):
heard.
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(10:53):
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Nicky (10:58):
So, ness, why don't we have a bit of a brainstorm to
help?
There's this concept ofoutrageous opposites and a shout
out to Donna McGeorge and MariBurgess, who first shared this
concept with me earlier in theyear, and it's really been
percolating for me since then.
And the outrageous opposite isall about looking at what is the
(11:19):
maybe, say, the belief, thenorm, what we believe to be true
for a CEO, director, leader,business owner, whatever role
you're in, whoever you arelistening, but first of all
understanding what is my beliefof success.
So even the leader you weretalking to, ness, what was their
perception of success?
So we'll brainstorm some ideasto get the listeners and viewers
(11:40):
going, and then the idea is tomatch or look at what the
outrageous opposite could be, nomatter if we think it could be
true or not.
That's not the point here.
We're going to get out our bigmagic wands, people.
So we're going to ideation,visionary exploration, curiosity
mode with this.
Put the lineal black and whitethinking to the side for the
(12:01):
next five to 10 minutes or so.
Can we do that?
I think so.
Let's take up the challenge.
I love it.
So, on your behalf, we'resaying yes, what are some
typical norms or go-tounconscious biases where leaders
, business owners what theythink success is.
What are some of the typicalones?
Ness (12:21):
Ness I think of the hustle culture ones.
The hustle culture says get upat 5am, go to the gym, do a
workout and then I don't knowread a book and do all this
stuff and so that you can beready and starting work at 7am
in the morning.
That would be one.
Nicky (12:40):
Definitely.
And I also want to say herewe're not saying don't do a 5am
start.
What we're saying is thatdefinitely works for some people
and it definitely does not workfor others.
There's a whole actuallyepigenetics piece around this,
but that's a differentconversation.
But the reason I bring that upit's actually understanding how
do I thrive as a human being andwhat?
(13:00):
What does my business need?
And Vanessa and I we ain't that5am club type.
But again, it's not aboutdissing on that.
If it's right for you.
The problem is the expectationhas landed across the board.
There's this generalizationthat you've got to be in the 5am
club, otherwise you're going tofail.
No, actually that is completeBS.
If that works for you, rock onAwesome.
(13:22):
That is complete BS.
If that works for you, rock onAwesome.
We are here cheering you onno-transcript.
In our business I don't startwork till 10am and I definitely
get up, not at 5am.
That works for me.
That's how I'm wired.
There's other peak times of theday where I can go to the gym
or dance or read a book orwhatever it might be, and that's
(13:43):
the thing that we found withour clients as well.
And yet there's this box thatthey feel they need to sit in.
Ness (13:49):
Well, for me it's that whole, especially starting my
business.
I still have the corporatemindset of you work from nine
till five and in some ways it'snice to have that sort of cut
off, although I usually worklater than that because I start
later than that.
So it's always that whole thingYou've got to fit into a box
wherever you work, and I thinkwhat COVID helped is to create
(14:10):
some flexibility around that, tounderstand sorry that people,
for example, who go for a walkin the middle of the day can
actually be more productive inthe afternoon than if they're
sitting down at a desk all daylong.
So that's almost.
I really think it threw in someoutrageous opposite thinking,
because so many clients that wework with I don't know about you
, nikki, but clients that Iworked with in the past wanted
(14:32):
to see a coach face-to-face.
They didn't want to do online.
Even in our family we were allapart, and so we would do Zoom
catch-ups, or my girlfriends andI would do Zoom catch-ups.
And why didn't we do this?
I think we did that forMother's Day one year, when we
were all in lockdown, and we go.
Why don't we do this every year?
Because I didn't live nearwhere my mum lived, so it's
(14:52):
really shaking up that beliefsystem around.
I've got to work how many hoursa day?
And for some people who ownbusinesses or are senior leaders
in business, that extends intothe weekend, like they can't see
a whole day.
They don't believe they'rebeing productive if they take
that whole day off.
Nicky (15:10):
Oh, I had a conversation with somebody recently about
taking naps in the middle of theday there's a really good on
the calm app.
There's a really good nap sleepstory and it wakes you up at 26
seconds minutes, not seconds.
Yeah, like I think it's alberteinstein, there's a whole bunch
of people that you are known fortaking naps for the same reason
.
When you talked, when youtalked about the walk, that
(15:31):
reminded me of that.
Yeah, that is an outrageousopposite.
It is we had a nap in the middleof the day or went for a walk
in the middle of the day If weprioritized life and self-care
as much as business.
I also read an article recentlyabout this that there might be
this move to remove workinghours overall.
I remember, ness, you weretelling me about a client we
were working with and in one ofyour coaching sessions in our
(15:53):
early days of business togethershe was.
I know I really want to work onSundays to get the week sorted,
but I can't.
I shouldn't be doing that.
We're shooting all overourselves.
Do you want to share that?
I think that's another reallygood example.
Ness (16:04):
Absolutely so.
She liked to spend the weekendwith her family, but on a Sunday
evening she wanted to go in andprep her week.
And exactly what you said itwas like but I shouldn't be
working on a Sunday because Ineed work-life balance and it's
time away from the family.
And when we worked through that, she realized that actually it
helped to be more present withthe family because she knew she
had that time on a Sundayevening to prep for the week and
(16:27):
otherwise she would go into theweek feeling stressed and
behind.
So this is a perfect examplearound.
You've got to check in and makesure it works for you.
Now, she felt, because she hadthe rest of the weekend to be
fully present.
That was fine by her, but therhetoric out there is work-life
balance means you can't work atnight, you can't work on a
weekend.
We don't.
(16:48):
That's not what we want to do.
But for her it really worked.
For her, it actually thenbecame something that she
celebrated and her family wouldleave her alone and they loved
it because she was able to dothings with them for the rest of
the weekend without constantlythinking about oh, on Monday,
I've got to remember to do this.
Nicky (17:03):
Yeah, that release of guilt and that permission to set
your own rules.
Who says Now again, boundariesare really important in this.
If it was, I'm working allweekend, yeah, that's a
different story.
Or I'm working all weekend andduring the week.
Maybe you do want to do morehours on the weekend because you
want some time during the week.
The big thing here, theoutrageously opposite, to say
(17:26):
the 9 to 5 or the 8 to 7 pmlet's face it is.
What does that look like foryou?
Nobody sets these rules.
There is nobody that was sayingto her you must not work on a
Sunday.
Yet there's guilt.
She's carrying around that.
So as long as it's withinboundaries and there's a give
and take, there's a balance.
Then we make our own rules up.
(17:46):
A classic, another classicwould be this whole revenue
versus profit.
Ness (17:51):
If you've got a $10 million.
Nicky (17:53):
You've got 10 million revenue, so what?
I think a big question here foreverybody, including ourselves
and everybody listening andwatching to ask is for what
purpose?
So I'm getting up at 5am?
For what purpose?
Does that work for me?
Great, yes, it does.
Keep it.
I'm working on a Sunday.
For what purpose?
It doesn't work for me.
Don't do it, change it.
That's it does.
Keep it.
I'm working on a Sunday.
(18:13):
For what purpose?
It doesn't work for me.
Don't do it, change it.
That's not the rule you want.
I've got 10 million revenueAmazing, so what?
Because what's the factor thatwe need to make sure it's in
place.
Ness (18:24):
We want to make sure that there's a healthy profit balance
in there, and so I think that'sthe, especially in the
entrepreneurial space you hearabout.
Look at me driving my jet planeand working four hours a week
and making millions of dollarsand you go.
Are you?
Are you really that whole thing?
Must we aspire to somethingthat isn't realistic?
(18:44):
And I think sometimes we dolook at what other people have
and think that have externally,like the expensive car, the
expensive house and all thatkind of stuff.
I have to have that.
And the reality is just likeprofit in a business, there
could be a lot of debt there andactually not a lot of equity in
those assets.
So really we're working on aprofit goal and we often talk to
(19:06):
our clients around, like youjust said, for what purpose?
Like why do you want thatincome?
Because we know that the visionthat we set for the business,
which includes what we want toachieve, what impact we want to
make, what kind of money we wantto make has to support the
vision that we have forourselves.
So if we have a lifestylevision about spending time with
(19:26):
our family or providingopportunities for our family,
and then we go and workourselves into the ground and
never see our family, just sothat we can earn the $10 million
turnover and maybe 50 grandprofit.
Like, for what purpose are wedoing this?
So it's really stepping backand reconnecting in to exactly
what you said what works for me?
Can I create a business thatworks for me?
(19:46):
And I think it would be over ayear ago now, nick, that you and
I decided we'd throw in FridayRDOs every two weeks, and I
don't know why we didn't do thatbefore then, because we have
just made that work.
Through times where we've had alot, on times where things have
been a bit more quiet, we'vealways made that work, and even
to the point where, if we aretraveling or we've got something
(20:07):
else, on the rare occasionsthat we have an RDO, we swap
them.
So that is purely a mindsetshift, because it actually
hasn't had an impact on thelevel of work that we've been
able to sustain and the level ofincome and profit we've been
able to make.
Nicky (20:24):
Yeah, and I think so that's another really good one
to have on the list workinghours or working days, and
there's again a lot ofconversation around moving to
four-day working weeks ornine-day fortnights.
There's conversation aroundthen having longer days, four
days, and having the day off.
But again I want to challengearound what if you worked the
four days normal hours and thenhad the day off?
(20:47):
Because the thing that we wantyou to think about here is not
yet how would I do it, but tochallenge yourself, to think
what could that outrageouslyopposite be?
What would it look like if Iworked four days a week or nine
days a fortnight, as in is thatsomething that I would want?
What would I do with that extraday?
And then you can start to lookat actually how would I do it,
(21:07):
because reality is that a lot ofthe times there's solutions for
these new scenarios that we'venever considered, because we
haven't considered the goal thatwe want to achieve, which could
be a 10 am start, a four-dayworking week, a lower revenue
with higher profit, or samerevenue with higher profit.
Let's go there.
But then that rolls onto eventhings like the size of our team
(21:29):
.
We know a lot of our audience.
You've got again probablyaround that five, two to five
plus mil.
You've got a team.
When was the last time youthought about the makeup of that
team?
Do they all need to befull-time?
Do they all need to be workingin an office?
A big, outrageous oppositesince COVID has been.
Do we need a bricks and mortarbuilding or can we have a more
flexible workforce?
(21:50):
These are the types of thingsthat we want you to start
thinking about, those that we'velisted that are relevant to you
, and add to that list to reallychallenge.
Am I doing it this way becauseit's right for me, it's right
for the business, it's right formy clients and my team, or are
you doing it that way because itjust is?
Ness (22:09):
Yeah, yeah, that's so good , nikki.
I guess we're leading into itaround this.
Once we've identified what itis our belief system is, what
our rules of play are withinbusiness, it's almost like time
to grab a magic wand and justcreate something completely
different.
So what do you suggest we do Ifpeople are starting to resonate
(22:33):
with some of this and going,yeah, why the hell do I do that?
Why, why don't I have a Fridayoff?
Why am I working on a weekend?
That kind of thing?
What do you think the next stepis?
Nicky (22:41):
Look.
I think that the next step isfor those of you that are really
resonating with thisconversation grab a pen and
paper, go old school, grab thatmagic wand.
What we mean by that is, if wehad a magic wand and anything
could be the truth.
Make sure you have that wandhandy.
You're going to start on theleft side of the page, right,
anywhere from five minimum fivego up to 10.
(23:04):
Rules that you believe aboutsuccess in your business or in
your role right now, ie 5am club, big team, the turnover,
whatever that.
You might've heard some thingsthat resonated and add to it.
So what you believe to be trueup until this point in time,
whether it's your reality.
It so what you believe to betrue up until this point in time
, whether it's your reality ornot, what you believe success
looks like.
Then, on the right-hand side, Iwant you to actually write down
(23:27):
what and this is where you pickup that magic wand what could
be the outrageously opposite?
I'm working six days a week.
The outrageously opposite couldbe I work three days a week.
As an example, don't worry ifyou don't believe it right now,
because you probably won'tbecause it's not in your world
of reality, but you want to comeup with what that outrageously
opposite is for each of thoseitems.
(23:47):
So let's say you've got fiverules you believe around success
right now, and then you'll havefive outrageously opposites.
That's when you can start to gookay, what's the one that might
have the biggest impact in mylife right now?
And maybe it's around workinghours, maybe it's around size of
team, maybe it's around yourpersonal routine outside of
hours.
Whatever that is, think aboutthe one that will have the
(24:10):
biggest impact.
And that's where you can startgoing okay, what if I could make
this a reality?
What would need to happen?
And you could even ask thatquestion that you asked earlier
reframe it.
So I can't work three days aweek because there we go, so I
can't X because and see what theanswer is.
Because that answer is thething you need to work on to be
(24:32):
able to achieve that outrageousopposite.
Ness (24:36):
I love that and within that I think there's scope for
maybe the three days is reallyoutrageous, but you realized
actually I can work four or fiveand you've already reduced a
down from what your beliefsystem is, what you don't
necessarily want.
Yeah, I love that.
Nicky (24:52):
So what's the stepping stone?
We've got a client who'scurrently doing nine day
fortnights.
His goal for the next quarteris to be doing four-day.
Bring it back down to four-dayweeks, but don't allow that to
limit.
When you're first coming upwith the outrageous opposite,
that's when you're looking athow can I achieve this?
What if it could be a reality?
So goodness, let us know whatyour outrageous opposite is Let
(25:12):
us know what your commitment isand just start with one.
Start to challenge your thinking.
Is this my conscious thoughtand definition, or is this just
something that I've gone alongwith for status quo?
That's the starting point.
Ness (25:25):
It's amazing.
So that's your action,actionable action within the
next 24 hours, and we trust thatyou go well with that and, like
Nicky said, we'd love you tolet us know what did you do that
was outrageously opposite towhat you were thinking or doing
in the past.
You do that was outrageouslyopposite to what you were
thinking or doing in the past.
Thanks for listening everyone.
Have you heard?
Our book Healthy Hustle, theNew Blueprint to Thriving
Business and Life, is availableright now to purchase.
(25:48):
In Healthy Hustle, we take youthrough real-world, practical
and achievable steps to move youaway from unhealthy hustle to a
place of happiness and living,whilst continuing to achieve
incredible business results.
Welcome back to our final installment of our summer series
of conversations, looking backon season two of the most
popular, most downloadedepisodes from our podcast, and
today this is one where Nickyand I dive deep into the core
reasons why people start theirown businesses and then the
(00:20):
reality check of what oftenfollows from that.
So we know that sometimes we canget lost in the day-to-day
grind of business and the stressof trying to get everything
done and just feeling like yougot a day job, rather than
looking to the vision that youheld when you started your
business.
It's a fabulous opportunity,especially at this time of the
(00:42):
year, to pause and reassess whatyour goals are and how they
align to your personal goals sothat you can live a fulfilled
and balanced work-life life.
We cover off the disconnectthat often people feel in
relation to the reality ofrunning a day-to-day business
and talk about the importance ofreally redefining success what
(01:05):
that looks like for you andhaving practical steps that you
can actually apply right nowinto finding a way to create
that balance.
We trust that you have enjoyedthe mini-series over summer.
We will be back in yourlistening ears again with a new
series from next week, but untilthen, enjoy again with a new
(01:27):
series from next week, but untilthen enjoy.
Welcome to the Smart BusinessGrowth Podcast with Nicky and
Ness.
We would like to acknowledgethe traditional custodians of
country, the Turrbal andBunurong people of Brisbane and
Melbourne respectively, whereNicky and I both work and live
(01:48):
so, ness, as we've talked aboutpreviously.
Nicky (01:49):
But for those of you who have missed it, we know that the
research shows there's threemain reasons that people
actually start their business.
They have a dream, a visionthat they want to bring to life,
a passion, or perhaps it's alifestyle choice.
They're sick of being somebodyelse's lackey.
They want to be their own boss.
(02:09):
They don't want the day jobanymore.
They want more time or optionof time with family, or they
really have seen that there's abetter way of doing it out in
the market.
They want to create the impactbecause they know that they can
do it better than what's outthere.
But we also know the realitythrough talking to business
owners, through working withCEOs, leaders, business owners,
directors, et cetera, that thereality is often untrue.
(02:33):
That's not the reason they wentinto.
Business doesn't become theirday-to-day.
Instead of having more timewith family, they have less.
They have a day job with lesspay and less time.
That's what the business hasturned into.
They've forgotten ordisconnected from the vision or
the why, and they might still bemaking that impact and doing it
as better or as good as peoplecompetitors out there.
(02:55):
But that real driving factor forwhy we go into business can be
lost, and I think what's reallyimportant about revisiting this
and having this conversation isthat we need to redefine what
success looks like.
I wonder how many of us havejust fallen in by default around
what we've been told by societyor those that have gone before
(03:15):
us about what a successfulbusiness actually looks like.
It's just become default, andNess and I really want to pop
the pause button for those ofyou that are listening and our
viewers to say hold on a second.
Have you consciously taken amoment to really think about
what does a successful businesslook like for me?
(03:36):
Because the reality is thatwhen you're in early days of
business, the four-hour workweekis a myth.
But when you're established inbusiness, like you are, and you
have a team and you have thesystems and you've got a culture
that's thriving and you've gotthe operating rhythms to support
that, actually the four-hourworkweek could become a reality
(03:58):
for you and it can connect youback to those other reasons that
you went into business.
Ness, what's your two centshere?
Ness (04:07):
It's really interesting.
It just comes off the back of acoaching session that I've had
today, which is just exactlythat, but for a leader, not
necessarily a business owneraround.
How do you define success inwhen going for a job?
So, when you apply forsomething, what are your success
measures?
Is it getting the job?
You fail if you don't.
But what about all the otherthings that you do along the way
(04:28):
?
And I think this really appliesin business as well, because
one of the examples I shared wasaround, say, a particular
dollar amount that you want tohit in revenue, and when we
start to tie ourselves into thisbelief that unless I get that
particular dollar amount, then Ifailed or I'm not good enough
or just all that stuff thatcomes into your head, we've
(04:49):
really got to step back and go.
What happens if it was $500under target?
Did you still fail?
It's that kind of thing aroundthis, challenging the beliefs,
and I think that it works reallywell, because when we start a
business, there are like gosh.
I remember reading thatfour-hour workweek book and
feeling like a complete loserbecause it just seemed so
(05:09):
impossible.
Now, four-hour workweek isn'tmy goal, however.
Now what I see in that is itgets you thinking about how
things could be done differently.
It's like saying to a businessowner act as if you're going to
sell this business in fiveyears' time.
What must you do between nowand then to get it to a business
owner act as if you're going tosell this business in five
years time.
What must you do between nowand then to get it to a point
where it's worthy of someonecoming along and paying a lot of
(05:31):
money to you to buy it?
Imagine if you worked like that, with no intention of selling,
and therefore you are creatingthe business that's going to be
profitable for you to be in it,that someone else would want to
buy, but maybe you don't want todo it.
So the four-hour workweek, Ithink asking ourselves a
question around okay, whathappens if it was a reality?
(05:51):
What would I do differently?
What decisions would I make?
How would I approach myday-to-day work?
Would I be more focused if Iknew I could only work for four
hours a week?
So it's really saying what arethe belief systems that you have
around business?
How could you like?
A lot of people think theycan't.
They have to double the effortin order to be able to double
(06:13):
the income, for example.
What happens if it was lesseffort?
Yeah, for double results.
Let's just really start toshake things up and look at
something that is completelyopposite to what you believe,
just to get you thinkingdifferently, because I think we
can get stuck.
We get stuck because we don'tstop to question our beliefs.
Nicky (06:33):
Yeah, and even what you said there around four hour work
week is not my goal, and forsome people it might be, for
others it's not.
And even to sell the businessexactly what you said around
that might not be my goal tosell the business but I think
the lesson or the insight totake here is that it's having a
business, as you said, thatcould be saleable, that is going
(06:53):
to for really good money if youchoose to do that.
It's.
You could work four hours ifyou choose to do that.
Because even if you set up thebusiness, say, for a four-hour
working week, then you can stilldo other cool things with that
time that are in the business.
Actually, what it does is ituntethers you from the
day-to-day whirlwind so you canstep into the place of your own
(07:13):
genius zone.
We've talked with businessowners that want to step out of
the day-to-day whirlwind becausethere's other things that they
can be doing that now excitethem more.
Another thing I see a lot isthat at first, a lot of things
about the business are reallyexciting, but we actually need
to create a business that'sboring because it's got
processes.
Success is replicable.
So if you, as the businessowner or senior leader are
(07:36):
looking for excitement withinthe day-to-day whirlwind of the
business.
You're actually not settingyour business up to fail.
Get the structure happening,get the routine, get the right
people in place so you can stepback and you can find the thing
that's exciting for you, foryour next, whatever that is,
albeit within the same businessstarting a new business.
Some people will step into moreconsulting roles or different
(07:57):
things.
There's no rules here, and Ithink that's probably one of the
big messages is that there areno rules.
You get to create your own, butoftentimes what happens is so
how do I even do that?
Because I don't even know whereto start.
Ness (08:10):
I think the other thing is we defend so valiantly what we
do If we have a belief systemaround that.
I think of it in a corporatesetting, like every single team
member that I've ever workedwith will say we need more staff
.
Nobody says, actually I thinkwe could lose a few staff in
here and do better.
(08:30):
It's a belief system, right.
We've got to challenge theconventional way of thinking and
so I think it's all the reasons, the excuses that I would have
I could.
I can't do it for-hour workweekbecause Everything that comes
after because is your beliefaround why that won't work and
we've got to really start tochallenge that and that can feel
really uncomfortable.
Nicky (08:51):
So that's probably a really good action to take
already is again whether youwant to do a four-hour workweek
or not.
That's not the point.
But if you finish that sentence, what comes up for you because
they're the areas of yourbusiness that you want to work
on to make sure that you've gotflexibility, you've got choice
of where you spend your time,and we often talk about the fact
that in the early days we aredoubling the effort for half the
(09:13):
reward.
If you think back to early daysin business, it's a slog.
We've got to hustle all of thatand it's very easy to stay in
that space If you don't pop thispause button and take a moment
to go hold up.
Do I need to be in the businessas much as I am?
What can change now?
Because oftentimes, as abusiness owner, we play many
roles, but we don't have to playas many as we did in the early
(09:36):
days.
That's one of the benefits ofexpanding and growing our
business and being anestablished business, and yet
it's really easy to just keepgoing with the status quo rather
than actually doing a bit of acircuit breaker to go.
Do I still need to do that, ordo I have someone else in my
team that can do it, or someoneelse I can outsource it, even if
they're not in my team rightnow.
And the exciting thing aboutbeing in business, or one of the
(09:59):
exciting things I think aboutbeing in business, or one of the
exciting things I think aboutbeing in business today, in 2024
, we have so many toolsavailable to us.
A coaching session I was just inthis morning was around.
How can I be more timeefficient?
I need to do the same Again.
It was with the leader, sameoutcome, with half the time.
Okay, what are the tools thatyou how can you replicate,
(10:20):
automate, what are the tools youcan use to shorten time?
It was like whoa, these thingsare easy to do and right in
front of me.
I didn't even think of.
It is what the leader said tome.
So, again, it's challengingthinking, have you?
Ness (10:32):
heard.
Our book Healthy Hustle, thenew blueprint to thrive in
business and life, is availableright now to purchase.
In Healthy Hustle, we take youthrough real-world, practical
and achievable steps to move youaway from unhealthy hustle to a
place of happiness and living,whilst continuing to achieve
incredible business results.
(10:53):
Order your copy now athealthyhustlecomau.
Nicky (10:58):
So, ness, why don't we have a bit of a brainstorm to
help?
There's this concept ofoutrageous opposites and a shout
out to Donna McGeorge and MariBurgess, who first shared this
concept with me earlier in theyear, and it's really been
percolating for me since then.
And the outrageous opposite isall about looking at what is the
(11:19):
maybe, say, the belief, thenorm, what we believe to be true
for a CEO, director, leader,business owner, whatever role
you're in, whoever you arelistening, but first of all
understanding what is my beliefof success.
So even the leader you weretalking to, ness, what was their
perception of success?
So we'll brainstorm some ideasto get the listeners and viewers
(11:40):
going, and then the idea is tomatch or look at what the
outrageous opposite could be, nomatter if we think it could be
true or not.
That's not the point here.
We're going to get out our bigmagic wands, people.
So we're going to ideation,visionary exploration, curiosity
mode with this.
Put the lineal black and whitethinking to the side for the
(12:01):
next five to 10 minutes or so.
Can we do that?
I think so.
Let's take up the challenge.
I love it.
So, on your behalf, we'resaying yes, what are some
typical norms or go-tounconscious biases where leaders
, business owners what theythink success is.
What are some of the typicalones?
Ness (12:21):
Ness I think of the hustle culture ones.
The hustle culture says get upat 5am, go to the gym, do a
workout and then I don't knowread a book and do all this
stuff and so that you can beready and starting work at 7am
in the morning.
That would be one.
Nicky (12:40):
Definitely.
And I also want to say herewe're not saying don't do a 5am
start.
What we're saying is thatdefinitely works for some people
and it definitely does not workfor others.
There's a whole actuallyepigenetics piece around this,
but that's a differentconversation.
But the reason I bring that upit's actually understanding how
do I thrive as a human being andwhat?
(13:00):
What does my business need?
And Vanessa and I we ain't that5am club type.
But again, it's not aboutdissing on that.
If it's right for you.
The problem is the expectationhas landed across the board.
There's this generalizationthat you've got to be in the 5am
club, otherwise you're going tofail.
No, actually that is completeBS.
If that works for you, rock onAwesome.
(13:22):
That is complete BS.
If that works for you, rock onAwesome.
We are here cheering you onno-transcript.
In our business I don't startwork till 10am and I definitely
get up, not at 5am.
That works for me.
That's how I'm wired.
There's other peak times of theday where I can go to the gym
or dance or read a book orwhatever it might be, and that's
(13:43):
the thing that we found withour clients as well.
And yet there's this box thatthey feel they need to sit in.
Ness (13:49):
Well, for me it's that whole, especially starting my
business.
I still have the corporatemindset of you work from nine
till five and in some ways it'snice to have that sort of cut
off, although I usually worklater than that because I start
later than that.
So it's always that whole thingYou've got to fit into a box
wherever you work, and I thinkwhat COVID helped is to create
(14:10):
some flexibility around that, tounderstand sorry that people,
for example, who go for a walkin the middle of the day can
actually be more productive inthe afternoon than if they're
sitting down at a desk all daylong.
So that's almost.
I really think it threw in someoutrageous opposite thinking,
because so many clients that wework with I don't know about you
, nikki, but clients that Iworked with in the past wanted
(14:32):
to see a coach face-to-face.
They didn't want to do online.
Even in our family we were allapart, and so we would do Zoom
catch-ups, or my girlfriends andI would do Zoom catch-ups.
And why didn't we do this?
I think we did that forMother's Day one year, when we
were all in lockdown, and we go.
Why don't we do this every year?
Because I didn't live nearwhere my mum lived, so it's
(14:52):
really shaking up that beliefsystem around.
I've got to work how many hoursa day?
And for some people who ownbusinesses or are senior leaders
in business, that extends intothe weekend, like they can't see
a whole day.
They don't believe they'rebeing productive if they take
that whole day off.
Nicky (15:10):
Oh, I had a conversation with somebody recently about
taking naps in the middle of theday there's a really good on
the calm app.
There's a really good nap sleepstory and it wakes you up at 26
seconds minutes, not seconds.
Yeah, like I think it's alberteinstein, there's a whole bunch
of people that you are known fortaking naps for the same reason
.
When you talked, when youtalked about the walk, that
(15:31):
reminded me of that.
Yeah, that is an outrageousopposite.
It is we had a nap in the middleof the day or went for a walk
in the middle of the day If weprioritized life and self-care
as much as business.
I also read an article recentlyabout this that there might be
this move to remove workinghours overall.
I remember, ness, you weretelling me about a client we
were working with and in one ofyour coaching sessions in our
(15:53):
early days of business togethershe was.
I know I really want to work onSundays to get the week sorted,
but I can't.
I shouldn't be doing that.
We're shooting all overourselves.
Do you want to share that?
I think that's another reallygood example.
Ness (16:04):
Absolutely so.
She liked to spend the weekendwith her family, but on a Sunday
evening she wanted to go in andprep her week.
And exactly what you said itwas like but I shouldn't be
working on a Sunday because Ineed work-life balance and it's
time away from the family.
And when we worked through that, she realized that actually it
helped to be more present withthe family because she knew she
had that time on a Sundayevening to prep for the week and
(16:27):
otherwise she would go into theweek feeling stressed and
behind.
So this is a perfect examplearound.
You've got to check in and makesure it works for you.
Now, she felt, because she hadthe rest of the weekend to be
fully present.
That was fine by her, but therhetoric out there is work-life
balance means you can't work atnight, you can't work on a
weekend.
We don't.
(16:48):
That's not what we want to do.
But for her it really worked.
For her, it actually thenbecame something that she
celebrated and her family wouldleave her alone and they loved
it because she was able to dothings with them for the rest of
the weekend without constantlythinking about oh, on Monday,
I've got to remember to do this.
Nicky (17:03):
Yeah, that release of guilt and that permission to set
your own rules.
Who says Now again, boundariesare really important in this.
If it was, I'm working allweekend, yeah, that's a
different story.
Or I'm working all weekend andduring the week.
Maybe you do want to do morehours on the weekend because you
want some time during the week.
The big thing here, theoutrageously opposite, to say
(17:26):
the 9 to 5 or the 8 to 7 pmlet's face it is.
What does that look like foryou?
Nobody sets these rules.
There is nobody that was sayingto her you must not work on a
Sunday.
Yet there's guilt.
She's carrying around that.
So as long as it's withinboundaries and there's a give
and take, there's a balance.
Then we make our own rules up.
(17:46):
A classic, another classicwould be this whole revenue
versus profit.
Ness (17:51):
If you've got a $10 million.
Nicky (17:53):
You've got 10 million revenue, so what?
I think a big question here foreverybody, including ourselves
and everybody listening andwatching to ask is for what
purpose?
So I'm getting up at 5am?
For what purpose?
Does that work for me?
Great, yes, it does.
Keep it.
I'm working on a Sunday.
For what purpose?
It doesn't work for me.
Don't do it, change it.
That's it does.
Keep it.
I'm working on a Sunday.
(18:13):
For what purpose?
It doesn't work for me.
Don't do it, change it.
That's not the rule you want.
I've got 10 million revenueAmazing, so what?
Because what's the factor thatwe need to make sure it's in
place.
Ness (18:24):
We want to make sure that there's a healthy profit balance
in there, and so I think that'sthe, especially in the
entrepreneurial space you hearabout.
Look at me driving my jet planeand working four hours a week
and making millions of dollarsand you go.
Are you?
Are you really that whole thing?
Must we aspire to somethingthat isn't realistic?
(18:44):
And I think sometimes we dolook at what other people have
and think that have externally,like the expensive car, the
expensive house and all thatkind of stuff.
I have to have that.
And the reality is just likeprofit in a business, there
could be a lot of debt there andactually not a lot of equity in
those assets.
So really we're working on aprofit goal and we often talk to
(19:06):
our clients around, like youjust said, for what purpose?
Like why do you want thatincome?
Because we know that the visionthat we set for the business,
which includes what we want toachieve, what impact we want to
make, what kind of money we wantto make has to support the
vision that we have forourselves.
So if we have a lifestylevision about spending time with
(19:26):
our family or providingopportunities for our family,
and then we go and workourselves into the ground and
never see our family, just sothat we can earn the $10 million
turnover and maybe 50 grandprofit.
Like, for what purpose are wedoing this?
So it's really stepping backand reconnecting in to exactly
what you said what works for me?
Can I create a business thatworks for me?
(19:46):
And I think it would be over ayear ago now, nick, that you and
I decided we'd throw in FridayRDOs every two weeks, and I
don't know why we didn't do thatbefore then, because we have
just made that work.
Through times where we've had alot, on times where things have
been a bit more quiet, we'vealways made that work, and even
to the point where, if we aretraveling or we've got something
(20:07):
else, on the rare occasionsthat we have an RDO, we swap
them.
So that is purely a mindsetshift, because it actually
hasn't had an impact on thelevel of work that we've been
able to sustain and the level ofincome and profit we've been
able to make.
Nicky (20:24):
Yeah, and I think so that's another really good one
to have on the list workinghours or working days, and
there's again a lot ofconversation around moving to
four-day working weeks ornine-day fortnights.
There's conversation aroundthen having longer days, four
days, and having the day off.
But again I want to challengearound what if you worked the
four days normal hours and thenhad the day off?
(20:47):
Because the thing that we wantyou to think about here is not
yet how would I do it, but tochallenge yourself, to think
what could that outrageouslyopposite be?
What would it look like if Iworked four days a week or nine
days a fortnight, as in is thatsomething that I would want?
What would I do with that extraday?
And then you can start to lookat actually how would I do it,
(21:07):
because reality is that a lot ofthe times there's solutions for
these new scenarios that we'venever considered, because we
haven't considered the goal thatwe want to achieve, which could
be a 10 am start, a four-dayworking week, a lower revenue
with higher profit, or samerevenue with higher profit.
Let's go there.
But then that rolls onto eventhings like the size of our team
(21:29):
.
We know a lot of our audience.
You've got again probablyaround that five, two to five
plus mil.
You've got a team.
When was the last time youthought about the makeup of that
team?
Do they all need to befull-time?
Do they all need to be workingin an office?
A big, outrageous oppositesince COVID has been.
Do we need a bricks and mortarbuilding or can we have a more
flexible workforce?
(21:50):
These are the types of thingsthat we want you to start
thinking about, those that we'velisted that are relevant to you
, and add to that list to reallychallenge.
Am I doing it this way becauseit's right for me, it's right
for the business, it's right formy clients and my team, or are
you doing it that way because itjust is?
Ness (22:09):
Yeah, yeah, that's so good , nikki.
I guess we're leading into itaround this.
Once we've identified what itis our belief system is, what
our rules of play are withinbusiness, it's almost like time
to grab a magic wand and justcreate something completely
different.
So what do you suggest we do Ifpeople are starting to resonate
(22:33):
with some of this and going,yeah, why the hell do I do that?
Why, why don't I have a Fridayoff?
Why am I working on a weekend?
That kind of thing?
What do you think the next stepis?
Nicky (22:41):
Look.
I think that the next step isfor those of you that are really
resonating with thisconversation grab a pen and
paper, go old school, grab thatmagic wand.
What we mean by that is, if wehad a magic wand and anything
could be the truth.
Make sure you have that wandhandy.
You're going to start on theleft side of the page, right,
anywhere from five minimum fivego up to 10.
(23:04):
Rules that you believe aboutsuccess in your business or in
your role right now, ie 5am club, big team, the turnover,
whatever that.
You might've heard some thingsthat resonated and add to it.
So what you believe to be trueup until this point in time,
whether it's your reality.
It so what you believe to betrue up until this point in time
, whether it's your reality ornot, what you believe success
looks like.
Then, on the right-hand side, Iwant you to actually write down
(23:27):
what and this is where you pickup that magic wand what could
be the outrageously opposite?
I'm working six days a week.
The outrageously opposite couldbe I work three days a week.
As an example, don't worry ifyou don't believe it right now,
because you probably won'tbecause it's not in your world
of reality, but you want to comeup with what that outrageously
opposite is for each of thoseitems.
(23:47):
So let's say you've got fiverules you believe around success
right now, and then you'll havefive outrageously opposites.
That's when you can start to gookay, what's the one that might
have the biggest impact in mylife right now?
And maybe it's around workinghours, maybe it's around size of
team, maybe it's around yourpersonal routine outside of
hours.
Whatever that is, think aboutthe one that will have the
(24:10):
biggest impact.
And that's where you can startgoing okay, what if I could make
this a reality?
What would need to happen?
And you could even ask thatquestion that you asked earlier
reframe it.
So I can't work three days aweek because there we go, so I
can't X because and see what theanswer is.
Because that answer is thething you need to work on to be
(24:32):
able to achieve that outrageousopposite.
Ness (24:36):
I love that and within that I think there's scope for
maybe the three days is reallyoutrageous, but you realized
actually I can work four or fiveand you've already reduced a
down from what your beliefsystem is, what you don't
necessarily want.
Yeah, I love that.
Nicky (24:52):
So what's the stepping stone?
We've got a client who'scurrently doing nine day
fortnights.
His goal for the next quarteris to be doing four-day.
Bring it back down to four-dayweeks, but don't allow that to
limit.
When you're first coming upwith the outrageous opposite,
that's when you're looking athow can I achieve this?
What if it could be a reality?
So goodness, let us know whatyour outrageous opposite is Let
(25:12):
us know what your commitment isand just start with one.
Start to challenge your thinking.
Is this my conscious thoughtand definition, or is this just
something that I've gone alongwith for status quo?
That's the starting point.
Ness (25:25):
It's amazing.
So that's your action,actionable action within the
next 24 hours, and we trust thatyou go well with that and, like
Nicky said, we'd love you tolet us know what did you do that
was outrageously opposite towhat you were thinking or doing
in the past.
You do that was outrageouslyopposite to what you were
thinking or doing in the past.
Thanks for listening everyone.
Have you heard?
Our book Healthy Hustle, theNew Blueprint to Thriving
Business and Life, is availableright now to purchase.
(25:48):
In Healthy Hustle, we take youthrough real-world, practical
and achievable steps to move youaway from unhealthy hustle to a
place of happiness and living,whilst continuing to achieve
incredible business results.
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