All Episodes

November 5, 2024 26 mins

In this episode of the Smart Business Growth Podcast, hosts Nicky and Ness dive into critical aspects of workplace stress, burnout, and sustainable growth. They uncover the hidden costs of aggressive hustling, share startling statistics on stress-related illnesses, and review the right-to-disconnect laws in Australia. The hosts explore the primary motivators for change—pleasure and pain—and provide strategies for overcoming negative habits through supportive environments and habit stacking. Emphasis is placed on the power of a supportive network, and listeners are introduced to their book 'Healthy Hustles: The New Blueprint to Thrive in Business and Life.' This episode offers actionable tips, real-world examples, and emphasises the importance of balanced work practices for long-term success.


Learn more about Nicky and Ness https://businesstogether.com.au

Buy a copy of Healthy Hustle: The New Blueprint to Thrive in Business & Life www.healthyhustle.com.au

Follow us on socials
Instagram -
@b2businesstogether
Facebook -
@B2BusinessTogether

Connect on LinkedIn
Nicky LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/connectwithnicky/
Ness LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/vanessamedling/

Give us a call
Nicky Miklos-Woodley 0403 191 404
Vanessa (Ness) Medling 0400 226 875

Or send us an email hello@businesstogether.com.au

Music by Jules Miklos-Woodley

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Nicky (00:04):
Welcome to the Smart Business Growth Podcast with
Nicky and.
Ness.

Ness (00:11):
We would like to acknowledge the traditional
custodians of country, theTurrbal and Bunurong people of
Brisbane and Melbournerespectively, where Nicky and I
both work and live both work andlive Nicky.

(00:32):
One of the key concepts we havein the book that really stuck
out to me is this whole hustlingharder is actually costing
lives, and that's a really bigstatement and I think about.
Are we dramatizing that in anyway or shape or form?
And then I remember back to thestats that we researched for
the book and the ones that blewmy mind around when it comes to

(00:53):
stress and burnout and all ofthose kinds of things.
So I just want to recap some ofthe major stats that really
make a big impact on this.
94% or more sorry, 94, or morethan 9 to 10 in 10 workers have
chronic stress at work.
75 to 90% of all doctor officevisits are for stress-related

(01:17):
ailments and complaints.
Those figures blow my mindbecause I think about this is a
it's not just the one-offsituation, right, this is
something where if businessowners are hustling, if there's
on their way to burnout andthey're creating an environment
around them that also fulfillsthat prophecy around, you've got

(01:39):
to work really, really hard ifyou want to earn more money, if
you want to hit your targets, ifyou want to just make a
difference and be successful andI think about that there's a
cost to business for that belief.
The financial impact of peopleleaving a business due to
burnout can cost between 30 to50% of the wage of that employee

(02:00):
.
Now, when we did our littlefact-checking, what we saw was,
according to the AustralianBureau of Statistics, this year,
the average Australian wage is$100,000.
So any business that is notputting consideration into
creating a healthy way ofhustling is actually losing, you

(02:21):
know, 30 to 50 grand for everyemployee that gets up and leaves
.
And then all of the other flowon impacts and costs, and I just
think that that is really likeit's a wake up call.
It's a wake up call for anyonewho is still doing the hustle
and grind, who is still workingon weekends and not placing
boundaries around their businessand what they want to.

(02:43):
You know what they need to doin order to fill their cup.
And I go why?
Why is this still a problem forpeople?
Because you can know all thisand you can learn everything you
need to know and you could bewanting to change.
But I know that there arepeople out there that, just
because they know it's nothealthy for them to be working
long hours, for example, theystill do it.

(03:05):
They think they've donesomething to fix it, but it
still comes back.
And I'd really love us to focuson what are these barriers,
what are the key barriers tostopping us from taking action
when we know that's the actionwe need to and must take?

Nicky (03:24):
Yeah, the interesting thing about what you say there
as well and as I'm hearing yousay that, obviously I'm across
these stats.
They're in our book.
What I find interesting aboutthis conversation is that we're
talking about the cost therevenue cost of business,
because the fact that it'saffecting people's mental health

(03:45):
, physical health, is actuallynot enough to create change.
And isn't that kind of sad thatwe're having this conversation
and we need to?
And even as business owners andleaders, that's a fact that we
need to be aware of andsometimes the feel good.
I want my people or myself tobe healthy and optimal, because
sometimes a lot of the leadersthat are listening and watching

(04:08):
this, you want to do right byyour team, but what about doing
right by you as well, and it'skind of sad that sometimes, when
it comes down to revenue risk,that's the thing that can create
the change but, also it's thereality and I do think that
there is a yearning.
We know that there's a yearningfor a different way.
Think about the right todisconnect laws that have just
come out in Australia.
You know there's laws that arecoming out to say, hey, you

(04:32):
can't if you haven't heard ofthis, to say that employers
can't contact their employeesoutside of agreed upon working
hours.
So you know there's an attempt.
It's clear that we're trying tofind a better way to thrive, a
better way to hustle healthily,and it's such a fair point that
you make around.
We all know there's the logical, the theoretical side of it.

(04:54):
What actually stops us, whatdoes stop us from taking action?
Because also the other patternthat we see is that we can be
really good at it for a littlewhile and then we fall back into
the old way of working.

Ness (05:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
Look, we've been able toidentify because we're having a
conversation about this One ofour clients had raised it as a
question in relation to what isit that stops people when they
know that they need to do that?
And I think there are some fivekey areas that we want to cover
here and what I would say asyou're listening or watching

(05:29):
this, if any of these stand outand resonate with you, pay
attention, because the one thingthat I'll preface all of these
barriers with is change will nothappen overnight, and this sort
of fast-paced environment wherewe expect things immediately
like I dieted for a day and Iwent to the gym and I lifted

(05:51):
weights where is my body, mygoodness?
If only so logically, we knowthat doesn't happen for a longer
period of time.
So the first thing I would sayto any of what we're going to
cover off on here is is we haveto remember it's the repeated
actions and behaviors and it'sthe undoing of what we have been

(06:15):
if you're resonating with thisof what you have been doing,
potentially for years or decades, so we cannot expect immediate
change.
This is something that we needto work towards, that we need to
work with over time.
I remember we recentlyinterviewed James Bartrock and
he talked about working overfive years to get his belief

(06:35):
system shifted and the actualchange in behavior.
So that's what I would prefacethis conversation with, but, as
we said, we're going to gothrough five.

Nicky (06:44):
I'll also say to that I don't want.
It can feel like a lot.
So, yes, it's not overnightwork.
It can feel like a lot.
So, yes, it's not overnightwork, absolutely.
And if you get started today,then you're going to get the
results quicker, because if youjust go, oh my gosh, it's too
big, there's too much, well,yeah, then it's forever.

Ness (07:03):
You're not going to get there, but anyway so don't be
turned off by that.

Nicky (07:08):
That's just a reality check, people.
But there are things you can doto start All right.

Ness (07:12):
So do you want to hit us up with the very first barrier
that we've identified to makingchange?

Nicky (07:17):
Absolutely so.
I think one of the first keyconsiderations or things that we
have to be aware about isactually our environment.
So do we have a supportiveenvironment around us?
I think let's share the barrierand a quick tip solution as
well for each nest.
So you know, if you're you knowwe were talking about Kit Kats
before we clicked record.

(07:37):
You know we like talking aboutfood, of course, and it's sort
of you know that habit of 3pmArvo munchies have some
chocolate.
If you've constantly gotsomeone that's always there
going, yeah, here's some KitKats, let's get pizza, let's get
some chips.
Sometimes that's fun andexciting.
But do you have people aroundyou that are supporting you to
create this change?

(07:58):
You know they're there with anapple instead of a Kit Kat.
I don't know, because we'regoing to talk a little bit more
about motivation and willpower,but reality is we've got to set
ourselves up for success.
So do the people around yousupport you?
That's what we're talking aboutwith supportive environment.
Does the physical environmentsupport you as well?
For example, you mentionedworking on the weekend.

(08:19):
Ness, we've got a lot of workfrom home situations happening
still.
How are you separating yourselffrom your workplace at home, or
even working longer hours.
So we're talking about thepeople around you from a
supportive environment componentas well as your physical
environment.
Like, really look around you,literally and figuratively, to

(08:40):
say is am I being set up forsuccess?
And with the people, maybeshare with them what your goals
are.
Ness, you and I are reallygreat at doing this for each
other.
You know around work hours ortaking holidays or whatever that
might be.
So share what your goals, whatchange you want to make, with
people around you so they alsoknow how they can support you,
set them up for success, tosupport you.

(09:02):
You know, get the metaphoricalKit Kats out of the room so
you're not tempted.
So supportive environment isreally important to be able to
create this change.

Ness (09:11):
So supportive environment is really important to be able
to create this change Fabulous,and I think that what flows on
well with that we're going tokeep the theme of Kit Kats going
, I think throughout this wholepodcast Are we going to have to
go get some?
Kit Kats.
After this I might have to textmy daughter and say I'm on the
way home.
Look.
The next one I want to talkabout is having.
There's two different thingsthat we as humans do when it

(09:32):
comes to creating change.
One is we move away from pain.
So think burnout, like you'veexperienced this right, I never
want to have that feeling again.
So now I absolutely must takeaction.
The other way that we can lookat creating change is moving
towards pleasure.
So it's that whole thing around.
Change is moving towardspleasure, so it's that whole

(09:53):
thing around.
I'm not motivated by anythingthat's sort of blocking me as a
big, major pain, but I'd reallylove to lose weight or have a
different body, or you know thatsummertime bikini, whatever it
is.
So I think that what we have tolook at here is are we
motivated by moving away frompain?
And if so, we need to work out,you know, like stack that pain,
really get deeply involved in.

(10:15):
What does it mean?
If I continue to do this?
What does the future version ofmy life look like?
Does it the people might say asan example, you know, think
about Simon from the book.
His pain was my family couldactually get up and move away if
I don't.
They could leave me if Icontinue to work these
ridiculously long hours.
So there's that sort ofstacking, or you could be

(10:38):
motivated by the fact that I'dreally love to have something to
work towards, but I'm going toguess that if you are stuck in
this pattern, we're going to belooking at the pain and the only
way that you really can, Ithink, see that face on is to
understand that there is asecondary gain for you to
continue to do that behavior.

(10:59):
And it may seem absolutely crazyin the moment when someone goes
.
You know what have you got togain from this?
And you go absolutely nothing.
It's poor on my health, it'spoor on my relationships.
I'm not productive, I'm notperforming at my best.
There is not one thing in hereat all that I'm thinking back to
past coaching conversationsthat I have to gain from this,

(11:21):
and yet there always is.
There's something underlyingthat, and what it could be is
perhaps, if you don't have thesupport of the people around you
, maybe you're avoiding spendingtime with them because they're
not aligned with the vision andgoals.
Maybe you are in a comfort zone.
Maybe you have a fear that if Idon't keep working like this,

(11:41):
I'm not going to have money inthe bank and success because
your belief system is linked tothat.
So really got to unpick whatthat gain is in order to really
understand the behavior.
And then, once we understandthe behavior and we kind of just
keep stacking the pain aroundthat, but not to a point where
you're burning out but torealize what would my life look
like and I know I've spoken withclients about this in coaching

(12:04):
sessions what will it look likeif you're burnt out and have
months off work?
Well, all of a sudden, thereason that I'm there to support
my team or to bring money homefor my family, that all of a
sudden is taken away.
So that's a really importantblock where I think that, or the
barrier, is that we don'tactually understand that we've

(12:25):
got to gain from staying in thatbehavior.
Does that make sense?

Nicky (12:31):
Another example of that that comes to mind is sometimes
it's adrenaline.
So the adrenaline andexcitement we get from things
like working on weekends,pushing out deadlines, taking on
too much Ness just for ouraudience.
Can you get a little bitclearer on what you mean by
stacking the pain?

Ness (12:48):
Yes.
Well, I think that it's amatter of realizing what it's,
looking at all the differentscenarios, right?
So it's sort of like if Icontinue to do this behavior,
what is going to be theconsequence for me in the short
term, in the medium term and inthe long term?
Who is it going to impact?

(13:09):
Who else is it going to impact?
The ones that I love?
What other consequences willthere be?
Like the whole idea of I couldburn out.
So it's really looking at allthe different scenarios and
being honest with yourselfaround this behavior that you're
doing and how that is impacting.
So when you stack it to a pointwhere it feels like, well, it

(13:29):
is ridiculous for me to continueworking like this, because the
reality is I could be inhospital, sitting in a doctor's
office with the other 75% to 90%of people with chronic stress.
I may have to close my businessdown, I may not have my family
around me anymore.
That's what I mean by stackingthe pain.
Is that clear?

Nicky (13:50):
Yeah, yeah, definitely, because that can be quite
coaching languages as wellsometimes.
So it's this leaning into whatis the worst case scenario,
actually like what else could be, and I think the challenge
around this sometimes is becauseit's theory, you know, is how
many people who do get toburnout are like, oh, that's
what, that's the leverage thatcreates change.

(14:11):
And we've got to try and find away to lean into the pain
before it actually becomesreality, and that can be
challenging because it's not yetreality and there can be this
mentality of oh, that's otherpeople, that's not me.

Ness (14:22):
Yeah, actually, to be honest, I think you need to work
with somebody who's going tohelp you with that.
In fact, all of these youreally need, perhaps a support
person, a coach, a mentor, apsychiatrist, a psychologist,
somebody in your team that'sjust there for you, who can
challenge you on any of the BSthat comes out your mouth.

Nicky (14:43):
Totally, totally agree with that.
And also there probably are painpoints that people can reflect
on already.
For example, james shared lastweek because it's because it's
common, right, like james sharedlast week, his kids, dad, can
you not make take a phone callwhen you pick us up from work?
That was years ago.
We actually do have probablyhave these examples and
scenarios already in our lives,but it's really easy sometimes

(15:06):
to just go into avoidance veryheaded the sand and push it to
the side.
So I guess the other thing isstack the pain theoretically of
future worst case and alsoreflect on what is the impact of
this on my people around meright now.
Yeah, absolutely.

Ness (15:22):
Have you heard?
Our book Healthy Hustle the NewBlueprint to Thriving Business
and Life, is available right nowto purchase.
In Healthy Hustle we take youthrough real-world, practical
and achievable steps to move youaway from unhealthy hustle to a
place of happiness and living,whilst continuing to achieve
incredible business results.

(15:43):
Order your copy now athealthyhustlecomau.
Third one Nick, all right.

Nicky (15:49):
Okay.
So here's the thing when wewant to change a pattern, a
behavior, even a belief, we haveto replace it with something
else.
We have to replace it withsomething else first, because
otherwise we'll just keep doingthat same old pattern.
So think about it like we'vegot neural pathways in our brain
.
I think about it like a highway.

(16:10):
So it's not just that firstdrive of a car over a field and
there's a light dent of grass.
These neural pathways have beendriven over and over and over.
They're highways.
They're now deeply rooted roads, so we can't just go.
I've been working on theweekend for the last five years.
I think I'll just stop becausethat is actually a habit now

(16:33):
that is ingrained in us.
So if that's an example ofsomething we want to change, we
need to look at what am I goingto replace it with until it's
the new habit has taken over.
It's the same with beliefs.
I've got a belief around,whatever it might be, we have to
replace that belief withsomething else.
Otherwise's the same withbeliefs.
I've got a belief around,whatever it might be, we have to
replace that belief withsomething else.
Otherwise the old belief isalways going to keep popping up.
So I think that's a reallyimportant aspect to look at what

(16:57):
is the behavior that you wantto change that you realize is a
hustle, hard, negative behavior,and then look at how can I
replace that behavior withsomething else?
Because then you've gotsomething new to focus on and
you know then that's going tohelp you create that change.
The problem is that we rely alot on motivation, and I don't

(17:18):
know about you, ness, but I'mdefinitely not motivated every
single moment of every singleday.

Ness (17:24):
It's crazy, right.

Nicky (17:26):
And I don't think anybody out there is, and if you are, I
want to hear from you becauseI'm going to have a conversation
and challenge that we're not.
We're not motivated.
Motivation is fickle and werely too much on motivation.
So we need to make sure that weare replacing the unresourceful
behavior or pattern or beliefwith something else, so that

(17:48):
we're not relying on motivation,but rather we're being more
strategic about how we'rechanging it.
And I'm going to lead into thefourth one, which is the barrier
is often that things feel toobig and too hard, and I
mentioned this at the beginningof the conversation.
It's not overnight.
It's going to take too long.
I'll get to it.
No, you can start with the 1%.

(18:09):
Ask anybody that has achievedanything.
Think about your own successes.
As Ness said at the beginning,it's not an overnight success.
It is tiny, little, small,consistent steps that get you
there.
Don't ever underestimate thepower of the 1%.
What's that?
One little thing that you canstart doing, because eventually

(18:31):
that's going to end up becoming2%.
So that's also really important.
Focus on the 1%, one smallaction that you can take Now.
So what's the fifth one?

Ness (18:41):
Well, the fifth one ties in with planning.
They all link right.
So you talk about having tohave something in its place.
So when we're really clear onwhat our boundaries will be so
we don't want to work onweekends, let's use that.
So you've got a belief that Ihave to work hard for my money.
The consequence of that is youwork on a weekend, so one you've

(19:04):
got to work on that belief,that mindset.
The 1% changes.
But here's where we can getreally really.
I get some momentum going.
It's around looking at well, ifthis is my plan, how am I going
to make sure that I succeededit?
And this is where the JamesClear Atomic Habits one of the
best books I've ever read comesinto play.

(19:25):
And he talks about things likedon't rely on motivation, but
rely on a logical way of youbeing able to achieve a change
in a habit.
So one of the things he talksabout there's so many different
things he talks about but one ofthem that seems to really
resonate a lot with people thatI share this information with is

(19:46):
this habit stacking.
So it's the idea that if you'redoing something already and you
always do that then you add theother thing that you want to
start to do next to it.
So a good example of this is ifyou want to journal every day
and you have a coffee everymorning and you love your coffee
, is to journal while you haveyour coffee.
So, thinking about this, I'vegot to work hard, or I've got to

(20:07):
work on weekends.
What is it that you canactually put in the place?
Something that you do already,that you can stack it on?
So it could be that you do, Idon't know, housework in the
morning or something, and youshut the door to your office and
you just don't go in, or youput a sign up, just something
along the lines that you've gotto create a new habit, because

(20:27):
the neural pathways areingrained and it's going to feel
really awkward anduncomfortable and you're going
to go back to the old way oftenuntil you don't.
So I really think that there isthe only way that you can apply
.
What you want to change is toknow where you're going and what
you want to do, and that is abigger piece of the pie, right?
That is the whole True Northplanning that we talk about, and

(20:49):
understanding what the businessgoal is, the personal goal, all
of the detail that come intothat which you can find in the
book and in other podcasts thatwe've talked about, but really
the action to get out of thisbarrier is to.
It forms in part of that.
1% is to like, let's startlooking at a habit, stack around

(21:10):
one small change we can do andset up to succeed, because we're
doing it in a way that allowsus to easily remember that
that's what I've committed to.
And if you put them all together, it actually they all just tie
in beautifully, don't they?
Because what we've covered offon is number one, the supportive
environment.
Number two, looking at thatleverage around pain.

(21:30):
Number three was looking atreplacing it with something else
.
Number four was all around theit's too big, too hard, so go
for 1%.
And number five is around plan.
But also then look at how youcan create the habit out of that
and I think they just if youhave some connections between

(21:51):
each of those, it's going tojust fast track you even more
quickly.

Nicky (21:55):
Absolutely, and I think this is the difference between
it being I'm motivated to createsome change.
Yes, I didn't work on theweekend for two weeks in a row
and then I fall back into oldhabits.
Or I didn't work long hours,but then something goes on at
work and there I am back at mydesk.
So when, particularly, you knowan example, I think about

(22:15):
bringing together that habitstacking and replacing if you
know that typically you work ona certain time of the weekend,
what's something that you canreplace the behavior with, like
going for a walk or somethingyou enjoy coffee with a friend
and you're marking up that placein time with the habit stacking
.
So it's just, it is soconnected, and these five key

(22:35):
ingredients are the thing thatwill create sustainable change.
I'm going to add a sixth one,actually just as I think about
it.
And it links to how we startedand ended the conversation
around managing yourexpectations.
So what are your expectationsabout this?
Because if it is to change andhow long has this habit, how
long has this behavior been inplace?

(22:56):
If it's been in place for twoweeks, it's going to be easier
to change.
If it's been in place for fiveyears, 10 years, two years, it's
going to be harder.
You know there's that saying ittakes 21 days to make or break a
habit.
I don't know about that.
I think it depends, yeah,depends on the behavior.
Depends on how deeply ingrainedthose neural pathways are,
depends on how much you wantedand that leverage point, depends

(23:18):
on how supportive anenvironment you have, depends if
you're relying on motivationand feeling like doing it or you
actually have a plan in placeto do it, like everything we
went through, and so get reallyclear on what your outcome and
expectation is, because thatalso is.
Then we have the drop.
We feel really depleted.
Maybe we've moved away from thepain just enough for it to feel

(23:39):
okay.
Like I mean, I've shared beforearound my burnout, there were
repeat patterns of like why do Ikeep doing this?
And a lot of what we talk abouttoday.
This is the key.
So if we look at an action thatpeople can take, an action for
you guys to kind of go out andapply, does something come up
top of?

Ness (23:58):
mind for you?
Well, number one, I guess.
Which one of those areas, thosefive key areas, do you listen
to and think, wow, that actuallyresonates the most.
It could be, maybe it's youdon't have this supportive
environment.
It could be any of them, butthere's the one thing that you
go yeah, I get that one, but no,I don't really get that one.

(24:22):
And so, ideally, what you'relooking at is which one creates
the biggest opportunity for youto make change.

Nicky (24:31):
Yeah, sorry, we're getting excited.
Go for it.
Which one makes you feel themost uncomfortable?
Yeah, or do you get?

Ness (24:38):
defensive about yeah, that's a really good one, yeah,
but it's all right for you tosay but could be any of those
different emotions, for sure andI think that that's that's the
thing it's like.
How can I make a change in thatparticular area?
And you know what I I thinkthat it's hard to do anything on
your own if you wanted tocreate change in your world.

(25:00):
So any anything that you arewanting to strive to do that
allow that it's significant andimportant and worthwhile.
You really need someone in yourcorner.
So I'm going to suggest that,once you've identified which
area it is, think about who isthat person in my corner, and if
they're not there, it could bea business buddy, it could be a

(25:21):
bestie, it could be your partneror it could actually be, like I
said earlier, a coach, a mentoror somebody in the professional
circles that can be there tosupport you, because this won't
be an overnight thing.

Nicky (25:33):
Yeah, and also different people in different areas.
So we're talking.
This could be business habitsand behaviors.
It could be personal weightloss.
You know every area of life, soit's good to look at who are
the people in that area that cansupport as well.

Ness (25:49):
Amazing.
Well, I want to say thanks forlistening everyone.
We trust you've got value outof today and, as always, we will
be back in your listening earsnext week.

Nicky (26:00):
Thanks so much, everyone, bye.

Ness (26:03):
Thanks for listening to today's ep.
If you loved what you heard,connect with us over on LinkedIn
and let's continue theconversation over there.
Did you hear?
You can now buy our bookHealthy Hustle the new blueprint
to thrive in business and lifeat healthyhustlecomau.
Want us to speak to your teamor run a workshop on healthy

(26:25):
hustle in your workplace?
Send us an email or go oldschool and give us a call to
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