September 12, 2024 • 54 mins
Ever wondered how early childhood experiences shape a lifetime? Dr. Sufna John from the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences gives her profound insights into infant and early childhood mental health. This special bonus episode kicks off with a compelling discussion on the real-world impact of adverse childhood experiences (ACEs) and PTSD. Dr. John’s expertise sheds light on the importance of understanding and addressing trauma to foster genuine compassion and create better outcomes.
We then navigate the intricate relationship between childhood trauma and parenting. Learn how pregnancy and early childhood can stir up past traumas, reigniting symptoms of PTSD and depression. This conversation tackles the issue of toxic positivity and underscores the importance of safe spaces for parents to express their challenging emotions. Dr. John says that by normalizing these experiences, we highlight the need for compassionate communication and regular support to mitigate the overwhelming stress parents face, making it clear that coping mechanisms like substance use are often misguided attempts at managing trauma.
The discussion evolves to emphasize the critical role of adult support in building resilience among children. Discover why investing in the adults who nurture young minds is pivotal for positive outcomes after trauma. From correcting personal biases to ensuring honest and empathetic communication, Dr. John stresses the importance of creating emotionally safe environments. By shifting perspectives and truly understanding trauma’s physiological impacts, we can build trust and foster supportive relationships that pave the way for healthier families and communities.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Host (00:00):
Hi and welcome to Smart Justice, a service of the
nonprofit Restore Hope whichhelps communities move their
families from crisis to careerby providing software and
services.
We are getting excited aboutreleasing season four, which
will cover juvenile justice, butfirst we wanted to release a
very special bonus episode ofthe show.
(00:20):
Recently, restore Hope staffand many of the wonderful
service providers acrossArkansas who we collaborate with
met for a two-day conference.
We had some very impactfulspeakers and one of those
speakers was Dr Safna John ofthe University of Arkansas for
Medical Sciences.
After she spoke, some of theattendees were asking for the
(00:42):
audio of her speech, so wedecided, with Dr John's
permission, to just release itas a podcast episode so anyone
can benefit.
Dr John specializes in infantand early childhood mental
health.
She leads several statewidecross-system collaborative
efforts across Arkansas,including serving as co-director
(01:03):
of Our Best, which stands forArkansas Building Effective
Services for Trauma.
Since many people who attendedthe conference work with
families in crisis every day,this presentation was designed
for them, so you'll hear herreferring to that, but really it
applies to anyone who has hadadverse childhood experiences,
(01:25):
otherwise known as ACEs, andanyone who has experienced PTSD
as a result, or, of course,their loved ones, just trying to
understand them better.
Before we dive into Dr John'sconversation, we'd like to play
the trailer for our upcomingseason, season 4,.
Feel free to send us feedbackon our podcast or anything else
(01:46):
that we've released.
Send it to media atrestorehopearorg.
That's media at restorehope andthe two letters ARorg.
Podcast Trailer (02:04):
The COVID-19 pandemic brought far-reaching
changes to society.
One troubling consequence hasbeen the rise in juvenile
delinquency and youth crime, andit's just continued to pick up.
We've had several juveniles inour court system.
With schools closed, communityprograms disrupted and families
under increased stress, manyyoung people found themselves
(02:25):
isolated and families underincreased stress.
Many young people foundthemselves isolated and without
essential support systems, whichled them down some dangerous
paths.
Dr. Sufna John (02:32):
We have gone from what I would consider more
petty kind of things within theschools and within our community
to communities surrounded byguns and engaging in violence.
Podcast Trailer (02:42):
They've suffered trauma by guns and
engaging in violence, they'vesuffered trauma.
Their family situation is justnot that stable.
In this season of Smart Justice, we'll explore how communities
across Arkansas are tacklingthis challenge, spotlighting
innovative solutions designednot only to reduce juvenile
crime, but also to createpathways to brighter futures.
We'll hear from judges.
Host (03:04):
There are alternatives that are more effective and get
better outcomes.
Podcast Trailer (03:10):
Law enforcement .
It blew my mind and I wanna askwhy, why, why?
And community leaders, we won'tsay what's wrong with them.
No, that's the wrong question.
The question is what happenedto them About what's working,
what's not, and how we canrestore hope for Arkansas
families.
Our kids are genuinely scared.
(03:30):
I am just very motivated tomake sure we get it right.
Host (03:51):
Join us for the upcoming season on Juvenile Justice.
And here's Dr Safna John in herpresentation, which is meant to
, in her words, recharge thatgenuine compassion battery that
tends to get drained sometimes,so sit back and recharge.
Dr. Sufna John (04:08):
When you're in positions like ours, I think
it's really easy to slide intothis idea of I've heard this
story before, I've been in thisstorm before.
It's almost sometimes like youcan predict the next things
people are going to say and do,because you've seen something
like this over and over and overagain.
Okay, and that's your braindoing its job, by the way.
(04:30):
Like we're supposed to learnfrom the past.
Like can you imagine if, everytime I walked up to a door, my
brain was like what is this slabof wood?
What am I supposed to do to getto the next room?
Like that wouldn't be practical, right, like we have to learn
from our prior experiences.
But, accidentally, what thatsometimes does is make us
(04:51):
underestimate the individualityof people that we serve.
We go.
I've seen this storm and Idon't appreciate the boat
someone is in in navigating thatstorm.
For example, we've all wentthrough the storm of COVID.
I was fortunate enough where Ididn't lose anybody.
I loved during that period oftime.
Can I really say I was in thesame storm as someone who lost
(05:14):
their spouse or their bestfriend or their child?
Of course, not right.
And so, even when we are instorms, we want to be really
mindful of the boats that peoplehave to navigate those storms,
and one of the most powerfulthings that builds our boat is
the life experiences that wehave.
So when we talk about trauma, Iwant you to realize that these
(05:36):
are experiences that are felt asscary, violent or dangerous,
that overwhelm our ability tocope, and, unfortunately, that
these experiences are extremelycommon.
That's one takeaway I want youto have from this presentation.
Trauma is not the exception.
What we know is two-thirds ofpeople across the nation will
experience a traumatic event bythe time they're 16 years old.
(05:58):
So we shouldn't be thinkingthis is not most of who I serve.
We should probably bedefaulting to.
This is who we are serving mostof the time.
And unfortunately, trauma oftenbegets more trauma.
If we think about a kid who hasexperienced an abusive
household, then they get intothe child welfare system, then
(06:18):
they have to move around tothree different homes and lose
track of their family and losesight of their siblings.
All of these things cascade inways that are really hard and I
want you to picture.
Have you had those moments inyour life, you know where, like
nothing can go right and itfeels like you're like universe.
Really right now, there's goingto be more of your piling upon
me Now.
(06:39):
Can you imagine in thosemoments if you were on a stage
where everyone was judging whoyou are based on the worst
moments in your life?
That would suck.
None of us would want thatright.
None of us would want to beunder scrutiny when we're barely
hanging on.
But a lot of times, servicesystems, in an effort to help
you tease apart every singlething that you're doing, make
(07:02):
you talk about your story overand over and over again, and
then we kind of do things thataren't super helpful for people,
and so I want y'all to justremember this idea that we often
look here are the aces.
By the way, we often look atwhat's above the surface in this
tree.
Right, we think aboutexperiences that happen to
(07:22):
individuals or families,specifically things like child
abuse, depression, communityviolence, mental illness, but
what we don't realize is thatnot all those trees are equally
likely to take root.
We cannot pretend we are in acommunity where everyone is at
equal risk for experiencingtrauma.
(07:43):
To heal, you have to tell thetruth, and the truth of it is is
that many people areexperiencing a lot more of these
roots.
They're experiencing a lot moreof poverty and discrimination
and lack of upwards mobility andlack of opportunity.
And so what we end up findingis that people who have
experienced a lot of these typesevents have significant
(08:06):
impairments or problems withtheir biological and their
psychological health.
I work for a hospital and sosometimes people are like I mean
, how do you convince anoncologist or a nephrologist or
a pulmonologist to care?
And what I often tell them isooh, your physical health is way
(08:28):
impacted by the experiencesthat you've had.
And so what we know is peoplewith four or more adverse
childhood experiences in theirlife end up being at higher risk
for lung disease, heart disease, copd, most types of cancer.
Do you remember, by the way,what put people at greater risk
for worse outcomes from COVID,lung disease, heart disease,
(08:49):
metabolic conditions, diabetes,types of cancer, and so what you
see here is like risk begetsrisk.
A lot of times, when we thinkabout trauma, we reduce it down
to the impact on people'schoices.
So we say, like they did thisor they made these choices,
which is why they're in thesituation that they're in.
(09:10):
If you are blessed enough to beborn into a body that did not
have to experience this type ofdysregulation.
We should really be thankfulfor that, because our bodies
will change.
Okay, I can't help but nerd outon science facts sometimes,
sorry guys.
But okay, when you are carryingthe eggs that become your
(09:31):
children, those eggs are presentat birth.
Okay, we don't make more eggsin our lifetime.
All the eggs we will ever haveare present in birth.
That means the eggs that weremy children were raised in my
mother's womb.
The eggs that are you were inyour grandmother's womb.
(09:56):
And when we think aboutgenerational trauma, what were
your grandparents going throughand I'm really looking at some
of you more Does that make sense?
Because some people, if theytrace back to their grandparents
, we are in horrific adverseevents, things like slavery,
right, and so, again, as wethink about the impact of trauma
(10:19):
, we cannot heal if we do nottell the truth.
And so let's look at adversechildhood experiences here in
Arkansas.
I want you to realize that thenational average for
experiencing four or morechildhood experiences that are
adverse in your life is 15%.
Okay, that means any county uphere that's not dark gray is
(10:40):
higher than the national averagehere in Arkansas.
Anything that's not dark grayis higher than the national
average here in Arkansas.
Anything that's not dark gray,okay.
What you should know is whoaright that probably snaps you
into attention.
For example, sebastian County.
One in three of the adultswalking around in your community
have experienced four or moreACEs.
That's not one in three of thepeople who come to mental health
(11:03):
.
That's one in three of thepeople you see in Walmart and
who are your neighbors, who goto the same church or synagogue
as you.
This is the general populationthat you are in.
And then if we look at thecaregivers you specifically
serve, this is 100 Families data.
15% of the parents you servewere in foster care themselves
(11:23):
as children.
Right of the parents you servewere in foster care themselves
as children.
Right, and so when you care alot about kids which I believe
you do families is in the nameof what you do.
I believe you care a lot aboutkids.
My goal for you is to widenthat to parents as well, because
they are often the kids youfeel so much love for.
(11:45):
They just grew up, and oftenwith limited access to the types
of things you're able toprovide for families now, and so
trauma really can impact theway that you parent.
Becoming a parent is a hugestage in adult development.
Of course, you can be an adultwithout being a parent, clearly,
but most of us who are parentswill tell you I went through
(12:07):
substantial changes in my lifeonce I became a parent.
It represented like a turningpoint in my life where things
started to be different, andwhat we need to understand is
that that naturally, wouldtrigger anyone's thoughts about
their own childhood.
Becoming a parent forces you toreconcile your own childhood in
(12:28):
some ways.
So for those of us who hadhealthy childhoods that might be
loving things right, you mightthink, wow, these are beautiful
memories that are gettingactivated for me when I become a
parent.
Did that just go out?
I thought it did.
Hold on, oh, I'm getting like abattery sign.
That's not good.
Hold on, is that?
(12:57):
Oh, okay, this one's on.
Hold on one second.
Let me clip it in.
Okay, no, is that better?
Can you all hear me A littlehigher?
(13:20):
Okay, is that better?
Yeah, okay, will you just tellme in the back.
If you can't hear me, just puta thumb up and I'll try to do
readjusting.
Okay, as we go through things,my voice is fairly loud, but
I'll do my best to kind ofproject, and so what we want to
think about is pregnancy, andparticularly early childhood, is
(13:44):
a time where most people willstart reflecting on their own
childhood, naturally.
The problem with that, though,is those of us who had extremely
traumatic childhoods.
This can be a reemergence ofPTSD and depressive symptoms.
This can be a time where mostpeople also have a lot of toxic
positivity, where they're likemama and daddy, aren't you happy
(14:06):
?
Oh my God, the amount of timeswhen I was raising my children,
people were like soaking everyminute.
I don't want to soak in everyminute.
It sucks.
I haven't slept for more thanthree hours in years, so, like
when you confront my pain withplatitude, that shows me you
don't understand me at all, andI think sometimes, what we do in
(14:29):
our efforts to cheerlead peopleis we show them we don't get it
at all, and, again, we're doingit because we're trying to make
someone feel better.
But the therapist in me wantsto say I think the person you're
trying to make feel better themost is yourself, because you're
uncomfortable with people'spain, and so we try to resolve
(14:49):
it very quickly.
Okay, and the reason.
I hope you see, as we'retalking, by the way, how many
nods are happening around theroom.
You are not alone in this.
This is what all of us gothrough as we're trying to help
people who desperately need ourhelp and our compassion.
So parenting does come naturally, but often in the way you were
(15:10):
parented, and it is verydifficult to give someone
something you did not have.
Very difficult, and we're goingto talk about the ways this
might manifest in what we see,because, unfortunately, once
you've experienced childhoodtrauma, you are at greater risk
for experiencing traumathroughout your lives.
It's like a domino effect where, once that first domino is
(15:33):
pushed, we know that people areat much greater risk for
experiencing a cascade ofdominoes, a cascade of trauma
throughout the course of theirlife, of trauma throughout the
course of their life.
And what do you think peoplethink when they can't seem to
make it, when they keep gettingknocked down every time they try
to pull themselves up, what doyou think happens to people?
(15:56):
They think they're worthless,they think it's hopeless, they
give up, they feel damaged.
I've sat with so many peoplewho are like it's me.
After a while, if somethingkeeps happening to you, most
people go.
It's me, it's me and I'm thereason it's happening.
And so let's think about whatare ways.
Then we can hold that idea ofcompassion as we do our work.
(16:20):
So what I'm going to do isquickly go through domains that
are impacted by trauma and I'mgoing to be asking quickly go
through domains that areimpacted by trauma and I'm going
to be asking you a series ofrhetorical questions.
You don't need to respond, bythe way, out loud Sometimes.
I just want to say that becausewhen you hear a question,
sometimes you feel like you needto.
But feel free to talk out loud,by the way, as long as you're
not doing too much of it todistract your neighbor.
So trauma can really impact theparent-child relationship and I
(16:48):
think we're very used totalking about it as the trauma
in parents impact the kids.
We talk about it as a one-way,directional thing.
Let me tell you if you havebeen through domestic violence
and then has a child who hitsyou when they're mad, that is an
example of your childtriggering you.
Okay, this is a bi-directionalrelationship and we're not going
(17:12):
to blame kids, but we're alsonot going to blame parents,
because that's a compatibilityof fit issue.
Okay, my husband and I have verydifferent temperaments.
Okay, I'm this and my husband'sthe most type B, laid back zen.
He could sit all day and notsay a single word out loud and
(17:33):
he would feel totally chill withthat.
And then we had two kids, myoldest of which is my husband
and my youngest of which is hismama to a T.
And so there are moments where,when my five-year-old,
six-year-old now, when mysix-year-old pitches like crazy,
(17:54):
there are moments where I'mlike I get it, like I get what
you're doing, that's me, like Ialmost find it endearing, like
it's almost funny to me, versusmy husband's like oh my gosh.
And similarly, when my oldestgets very sullen or like whiny,
I'm like and my husband's likeyeah, I get that, I get why that
(18:15):
happens.
So it's not that either one ofus are bad or good.
It's the reality that bothpeople contribute to a
relationship and the way arelationship goes.
But most times parents don'thave space to talk about the
things about their children thatmake them unhappy.
They don't have a place to saysometimes I regret doing this.
Sometimes this wasn't even mychoice to have a child.
(18:37):
I didn't even sign up for thisvoluntarily.
And look at what my life is now.
And we don't really createspaces a lot of times for people
to tell the truth, because weare uncomfortable with hearing
those truths, and so we'll talkabout skill sets to help you,
because trauma impacts you on abiological, physiological level
(18:57):
and those stress symptoms don'tjust disappear when you're in a
better circumstance.
So a lot of people think, ohwell, you're not stressed now,
you're not in trauma now.
Why does your body keep actinglike you are?
Let's take the example of a caraccident.
I was in a really bad caraccident where I rear-ended
someone when I was like 17 or 18.
(19:18):
Still in my body.
If someone brakes too hard in acar, my body does this Exactly
right.
My body goes whoa right.
Still still over a one-timeevent in which, by the way,
nobody got hurt in that eventeither my car, I guess my Honda,
(19:39):
was never the same, but nobodygot hurt and I still can't stop
it.
I still can't stop my body fromreacting in that way.
We also know that one of themost pronounced ways trauma
impacts your body is in the wayyou experience and regulate
emotions.
Experience means the way youunderstand what you're feeling.
(20:01):
Regulate means the way you'reable to modulate or change how
you're feeling.
Have you all ever worked withcaregivers who struggle with
this, where they don't know whatthey're feeling and they don't
know how to change how they'refeeling or modulate how they're
feeling.
This is a really common symptomwe see at a biological level.
Similarly, trauma really wipesout or reduces your level to do
(20:26):
executive functioning.
What that means is likeplanning, organizing, reasoning.
Okay, those types of skills arereally hard.
By the way, those skills don'tfully develop until your mid
twenties.
So if you're like, wow, whatwas early twenties, safna,
thinking Part of it is you couldblame your brain for not being
fully developed, then Okay, butplease remember that when your
(20:50):
trauma occurs will change theway it manifests in your body
and in your brain.
Okay, because 90, I'll stopthere because that's such a big
percentage right?
90% of your brain is developedby the age of five 90%.
(21:10):
So stuff that happens to you inyour childhood can have
dramatic impacts on the way yourbrain is organized through a
lifetime.
That's true for positive things, by the way, too Right, this
idea of when we have positivesupports in early childhood,
that also builds a brain that'sready to take on those types of
(21:30):
challenges, that has theabilities that it needs to
regulate.
So at this point in thepresentation I think it's
tempting to go.
Well, it's screwed becausepeople experience trauma early
in childhood.
There's nothing we can do aboutit.
That's not true.
Actually, take it from atherapist who devotes their
whole life to PTSD.
Ptsd is actually one of themost researched and treatable
(21:53):
mental health disorders we have.
We know exactly, actually, whatto do to support people who've
been through trauma.
The problem is most peoplenever get to me.
They never get to a type oftherapy that's actually been
shown to do anything.
Treatment as usual, yourgeneric community health, is
(22:14):
probably not going to betouching PTSD the way that if
you had cancer, you wouldn'tonly get treatment from your PCP
.
That wouldn't make sense, right?
You need someone who's aspecialist.
This is a very similar thinghere.
Ptsd is a specialist levelmental health concern and we
(22:34):
have resources in our statewhich I'm happy to pass forward
that helps you to start findingwho in your communities are
those specialists.
So what I want to encourage youthis quote is my desktop
background.
A lot of times it says when itfeels disheartening to learn
that trauma changes the brain.
Remember that healing changesthe brain too.
We are today is changing yourbrain right now.
(23:00):
That's not like an exaggeration.
You are literally changing yourbrain sitting here right now,
okay, and so it's not thatpeople are too late, but it's
also.
We're not going to go in therecheerleading and pretend like
these are easy things to undo.
They're not easy things to undo.
It's possible, but it's noteasy and it's definitely not
willpower.
So when we look at biology, wecan see that parents have
(23:21):
increased issues of pain,increased usage of psychotropic
medications, increasedinflammatory diseases and
autoimmune conditions, and so Iwould question for you, like,
how easy is it for you to parentwhen you have the flu, because
that's what our parents aredoing every day, by the way is
(23:42):
they're parenting when theirbody is really compromised?
I told you already that traumaone of the biggest impacts of
trauma in early childhood isemotions.
That it really changes the oftrauma in early childhood is
emotions.
That it really changes the wayyour body experiences and
manages emotions, because how welearn to manage our emotions is
through relationships withothers.
(24:03):
Okay, so let's say this was ababy and that baby was crying
and I picked it up and I wentthere, there, there, there, baby
.
What's wrong with this picture?
What do most people do you goright here, right?
Do you know?
Statistically, here's myscience nerd.
Do you know?
Statistically, most of you willbring your baby to the left
(24:23):
side of your body, no matterwhich handedness you are.
Why, yes, that's where yourheartbeat is.
You know that babies learn toregulate by regulating.
Through me, I'm the one thathelps my children learn to
regulate.
Now let's rewind into a housewhere you didn't have a parent
that was able to pick you up andhold you and take care of you.
(24:46):
Maybe they were high, maybethey were depressed, maybe they
also had a childhood where noone took care of their nervous
system either, and what you endup seeing then is it's really
difficult to regulate youremotions later in life.
It's not untreatable, but can'twe admit that it would be
harder to be able to do?
And so I wonder for you howeasy is it for you to parent on
(25:10):
your moodiest days and the dayswhen your emotions are in least
of your control?
And, unfortunately, emotionsdrive a lot of the behaviors
that we have.
How we are feeling is a directpathway to how we act most of
the time, and so what we oftensee then is people who have more
difficulty managing theiremotions guess what also have
more difficulty managing theirbehaviors.
(25:32):
You might see things like highimpulsive decision making, high
risk-taking behaviors okay, andI would encourage you all those
behaviors that we talk about ashugely problematic in adults.
We kind of do them too.
Here's an example when you havea stressful day at work, many
of you will go let's go get abeer, let's go drink a glass of
(25:55):
wine.
You're using substances tomanage your emotions in that
moment.
That's normal.
That's a lot of us.
But why, when parents do thatbehavior that we're serving, do
we talk about it as completelyinconceivable to us how you
would use substances when youknow what a bad impact they have
(26:17):
?
And so, again, we want to bethinking about how easy is it to
parent when your child ishaving a meltdown and you are
running late for work, when yourbody right.
It's so bad when your body'slike this and you're having to
parent still, because parentingis relentless, it never stops,
(26:37):
you can never stop.
And when you have difficultywith your emotions and
difficulty with your behavior,it changes the way you think, it
changes the way you think aboutthe world and it really changes
the way you think.
It changes the way you thinkabout the world and it really
changes the way you think aboutyourself.
I will tell you, nothing hasmade me feel more incompetent in
(26:58):
my life than my six-year-oldwhen he was three.
Who'd be like, yeah, no, I'mnot going to do anything, you
say?
I was like I'm a childpsychologist who literally
teaches people around thecountry about this, and my
six-year-old's like, nah, I'mnot going to do it.
Right, kids can make us feelterrible about ourselves, which
(27:19):
is so funny, right, because wetalk about kids as, like, they
bring us so much joy, blah, blah, blah.
They do.
I love my kids.
They're everything to me, andsome days they make me feel so
bad about myself, right, andthat's normal, right?
So we open up conversations forall the different ways that
parenting impacts people, notjust the ways we want to hear,
(27:40):
so we can check off on our plansthat you're getting better.
Finally, this one, I think, isnot one that people talk about
often enough.
It's called dissociation.
What this means is I'm notconnected to what's happening in
real time.
Now, okay, how many of you inthe course of this talk?
You don't have to raise yourhand, but feel free.
(28:01):
To how many of you have foundthat you've drifted away for
like a minute or two and thenyou lock back in to what we're
talking about you guys don'tthink I'm good enough, I'm just
kidding.
But that's normal, right?
Is?
We kind of go away for a littlewhile and we get snapped back
into attention.
Have you ever driven to like afamiliar place and you park your
car and then you're like did Idrive here?
Like I don't remember any ofthat.
(28:22):
I literally I hope I wasfollowing the rules.
I don't remember.
Dissociation is a normal thingthat we do, okay, but it's also
a survival strategy for trauma,because can you imagine what it
would be like to stay fullyconnected to your body during a
sexual assault?
(28:42):
Would you want someone to befully connected to their body in
the middle of a house fire?
We don't want that.
Our bodies are built to protectus and they go.
This is not a good idea.
Right, you need to go somewhereelse, because this is
immanageable without that.
But what the problem is then isyour body starts getting on
(29:04):
high alert and going oh, I knowwhat this is happening.
Let's get out of here.
I need to escape you and pullyou way too quickly.
So then from a house fire itturns into any time.
My heart beats really, reallyfast.
My body's like something'shappening, something's going
down, pull her offline Right, weneed to protect her.
Pull her offline.
And this happens a lot withparents.
Have you noticed that sometimesyou feel like you're repeating
(29:26):
yourself a lot with families?
We were like we've definitelytalked about this before, like
several times, and you We'vedefinitely talked about this
before, like several times, andyou're acting as if it's brand
new information.
A lot of times it is becausetheir body wasn't locked in in a
moment when you thought theywere Because dissociation.
I couldn't tell which of youwere going off into your own
(29:48):
land and coming back here.
I can't tell that from lookingat you, right.
And so part of it is usthinking about how do we
normalize that for parents andthen say something like so I'm
going to check in with you everyonce in a while to make sure
your brain hasn't done thatthing where it just like pulls
you away, right.
So every once in a while I'llgo like hey, you still with me,
(30:08):
like what did we just talk about?
And I'm doing that not becauseI think you're stupid, not
because I think you're dumb.
I'm doing that because Iunderstand how brains work when
they've been through trauma andI'm not going to forget that
knowledge when I'm interactingwith you Because I have a lot of
profession.
I train professionals as most ofmy job Okay, it's the best and
(30:28):
I train a lot of professionalswho can sit in a conference room
like this, nod their head andunderstand everything I'm saying
, and then the minute they're infront of a parent, all that
goes out the window and theyjust treat the parent as if they
didn't know all thisinformation.
It is great that you'relearning new things, but they
won't help people if you don'tdo something differently.
(30:49):
Okay, it's not enough just tobuild your knowledge.
We have to use that knowledgeto change our behaviors, or else
we're going to keep doing thesame things that we have been
doing for a long period of time,and so that might lead you,
hopefully, to this idea of likeokay, safna, I'm bought in.
I get the idea that traumaimpacts people in a variety of
(31:11):
ways, that it's understandablethe problems that I'm people in
a variety of ways, that it'sunderstandable the problems that
I'm having in engaging familiesin services and helping them to
meet their milestones.
I'm at a place now where I needto know what can I do about
that.
If I have a tagline for myentire career, this would be it.
I don't know if you guysnoticed that I've been dragging
(31:32):
this soapbox behind me thisentire day.
It's very exhausting, right,but this would be my whole life.
If I could sum it up is thatfostering resilience in children
means investing in the adultswho support them.
When you look at this graphic,adults literally carve out
(31:55):
pieces of themselves to buildtheir children.
My kids still have cells fromme in their bodies now, and I
still have cells from them in mybody too.
This is happening for allcaregivers and children.
This is happening for allcaregivers and children Because
(32:18):
the best predictor this is thegood news.
Okay, the best predictor of howsomeone does after trauma is not
the type of trauma or theseverity it was.
It's not the age that you were,it's not your personality, it's
not your intellect, it's notyour race, it's not your
religion, because those are allthings, most of the time, we
can't control.
The single best predictor of ifyou do well after trauma is
their presence of at least onesignificant and consistent adult
(32:41):
who can buffer the impacts ofthis on you.
That could be your caregiver,it could be a coach, it could be
a pastor, it could be aneighbor, it could be an aunt
when you think about your ownlife.
Okay, you have people like this, hopefully, people that you can
trace back to in adulthood,that really made a difference
(33:03):
for you when you were a kid andthose aren't always permanent
relationships, by the way.
So I told you that I train a lotand that this is my personality
all the time.
So if you're wondering, like,what's Safna like as a friend?
This, what's Safna like as atherapist?
This, right, this is just who Iam, right, this is how I
(33:25):
operate, and so it probablydoesn't surprise you then that
I'm someone who talked a lotgrowing up in school, all the
time, and I got in trouble forit all the time, all the time,
daily trouble for talking toomuch.
And then my third grade teacher,mrs Frank I have no idea where
she is now, by the way, I don'teven know if she's alive anymore
.
She's not a permanent fixturein my life at all.
(33:46):
She was the first person thatwas like hey, safna, she's like,
this is something reallyspecial about you, and she's
like I bet you're going to usethis voice for like really good
things.
And that was the first time Ihad any adult who was like this
isn't something we dislike aboutyou.
This is a part of you thatyou're going to use and I do use
(34:07):
it every day now and so I wantto help you realize you can be
this adult for people, even ifyou come into their life for
very short periods of time.
So we're going to be shiftingthat lens I bet you've heard
this before of what's wrong withyou, to what happened to you,
(34:28):
and I would add, and whatcontinues to happen to you,
right, that we want to shiftthat lens, but it's not
sufficient enough to go yeah, weknow this person's been through
a lot of trauma and thencompletely throw it out the
window when we get frustratedwith them.
I often ask therapists that I'mtraining, so, knowing dad's
(34:48):
history, how does that changethe way you act towards him?
And if you can't tell me prettyquickly how you're making
accommodations for that, thatmight suggest you aren't, that
you aren't really holding itpresent in your mind when you're
doing that.
Interacting, that it's kind ofthat information that sits in
the back of your mind and youcan do it when someone reminds
(35:09):
you, but maybe you're not doingit as proactively, so that may
be one piece of homework for youwhen you leave today is to
think about what's.
One thing I wanna do moreintentionally with families.
I serve knowing that most ofthem have a trauma history like
this, and we need you to do thisas authentically as possible.
(35:31):
Spoiler alert people can tellwhen you're faking compassion.
They know when you actuallydon't feel that way.
When you grow up with trauma,you become an expert observer of
other people.
Okay, because you had to beright.
You had to be able to tell isdad sober or drunk?
In this moment, you had to beable to tell is mom having a bad
day or a good day or a mediumday?
(35:52):
Right, because that that waswhat made you safe or not safe.
But what that means now isthey're watching you.
They're watching the way youtalk to them.
They're watching what your faceis doing.
They are paying attention and,by the way, they're also paying
attention to how you treat eachother, and we're going to talk
about that soon, because themost compatible stance with the
(36:18):
trauma-informed stance is one ofbenevolence.
Most compatible stance with thetrauma-informed stance is one of
benevolence.
What this basically means is Iassume most people are doing
their best with what they haveand what their environment
allows them to do, because it'snot just about what we know
right, it's also about what ourenvironment allows.
I can know that having a stablehouse is good for my kids If I
(36:39):
can't afford one.
My environment's not letting meuse that knowledge right.
But a lot of times I think weassume that it's just that
people don't know.
They know.
A lot of times they just can'tdo it within the environmental
constraints that they're in, andso this might sound really
floofy to some people, this ideaof like I just assume the best
(36:59):
intentions of other people mostof the time.
But I encourage you.
This is mostly a gift you aregiving yourself.
You will be so much more of aregulated, authentic, optimistic
.
This will keep you in this jobfor a lifetime if you are able
to genuinely recharge thatbenevolence for other people.
(37:23):
Okay, and so what we you want tothink to yourself?
What makes granting thatbenevolence to people difficult?
Because that'll be differentfor each of you.
For some people, it's when aparent explicitly does not do
what I told them to do.
That's going to make it hardfor me to have benevolence for
them.
Or if a parent doesn't thinkabout the impact of their
(37:45):
interactions on me, my staff, ortheir spouse or their partner.
That's going to be the thingthat makes it hard.
The first idea of correctingyour biases is to know where
they exist in the first place,and that's different for
everyone, right?
So this is another piece ofhomework to examine in yourself,
and that's different foreveryone, right?
So this is another piece ofhomework to examine in yourself.
What are the things that peopledo that drive me the most crazy
(38:05):
, that make me drop benevolencethe easiest?
Because, if I know that I cancourse correct for that, one of
my favorite supervisors of alltime told me something that I
think about daily that you arenot responsible for your first
thought, but you are responsiblefor your second thought and
(38:25):
your first action, that all ofus will have these gut feelings.
You can't take this out of yourbrain, okay, trust me as
someone who does a lot of bias,anti-bias work.
You can't pull this out of yourbrain.
This is built into the way yourbrain works.
Shortcuts, okay, but I amtelling you, even though you
have breathed the smog in ofbias right, you can't control to
(38:47):
breathe in smog, we're all init.
You can't control that.
It is your responsibility toexpel your lungs, though.
It is your responsibility tochallenge those thoughts that
you have and change the wayyou're acting.
So hear me when I say you'renot a bad person.
If you have these reactions,frankly, they're probably a sign
you really care about whatyou're doing, that you have
(39:08):
these reactions and we don'thave the luxury of just
operating on our first reactions, because people are relying on
us for really important things.
So we need to take the time tothink about the reactions we
have and the impact that has onother people.
Because we need to take thetime to think about the
reactions we have and the impactthat has on other people
because we want to avoid makingassumptions.
I've spent today telling you allthe ways that trauma can impact
(39:30):
people.
Okay, what I didn't tell you isonly one-third of people who go
through trauma develop PTSD.
Two-thirds of people don't.
Even within PTSD, you can looktotally different.
Some people with PTSD haveheightened alert systems, which
means they get scared all thetime.
Some people have dampened alertsymptoms, which means that when
(39:52):
something's scary, they don'tperceive it as scary.
It is a wide variety of waysthat trauma can impact someone
and we don't want to assume thatknowing someone's history means
knowing really anything aboutthem because you don't know how
that impacted them.
Sometimes I've had judges orlawyers or other people tell me
(40:13):
what is this person's traumahistory and on the stand I go.
I'm not going to talk aboutthat because the actual events
are not nearly as important asthe way this impacted someone.
So I don not going to talkabout that Because the actual
events are not nearly asimportant as the way this
impacted someone.
So I don't need to graphicallygo into detail with you about
what this person's history is.
For us to appreciate the waythat history is impacting their
life and that's the thing tofocus on here we want to support
(40:38):
protective factors, becausewhat that does is show someone
you are so much more than thebad things that have happened to
you.
You might be a mom who losesher temper on her kids a lot,
and you might also be a mom whonails chocolate chip cookies
every time.
That's true.
You're all of those things,right?
(41:00):
Remember?
I started this presentationwith telling you I'm all of
those things.
I am all of who I am.
And if we only focus on deficitswhich, by the way, our
insurance systems and ourhealthcare really try to get us
to do if we only focus on theweaknesses.
We kind of accidentally tellthe story that you are only what
has happened to you, and that'snot fair to anybody.
And we should ask about values,because we often assume that
(41:27):
poor behavior reflects poorvalues.
So if someone doesn't dosomething, it's because they
don't have enough value for it.
Okay, let me tell you, ifsomeone came up to me and said
something, I will give you amillion dollars if you can solve
this one calculus problem.
Let me tell you, a milliondollars is 10 out of 10
motivating for me.
Okay, I really want it.
(41:48):
So if any of you have thatlying around, I want it.
Just know that this is highlymotivating for me.
I cannot do that.
I do not have it in me.
I purposely took a job wheremath is not a thing in my world.
Right, I can't do it.
It's not that I don't havevalue for it, it's not that I
wasn't motivated appropriatelyenough, I just can't do it.
(42:09):
But we assume when people don'tdo what we tell them, it's
because they don't care.
But a lot of human behaviorisn't dictated by our values.
A lot of it is either automatic, that comes out of our bodies
day to day, or it's reflectiveof lagging skills, that we have
things that we don't know how todo yet right.
And so I want you to startthinking about why has someone
(42:31):
acted in a way I don't like.
So maybe that first thought isew, I don't like that at all.
And that second thought is Iwonder why.
I wonder what it is about themthat is making me react this way
.
And I wonder what it is aboutme that's making me react this
way, because my own values alsoshift, the way I listen to other
(42:52):
people and the things thatbother me when other people do
them.
Because most of the time, newtherapists especially struggle
with this idea of I have to knoweverything to do to fix things.
So if someone comes to me witha problem, I need to be the
expert who solves their problem.
And for me, I'm like girl onethat's a little arrogant to
(43:16):
assume you are the holder of allthese solutions.
If there was a simple solutionto most of this, don't you think
it would have been done already?
Right?
You're dealing with verycomplex social problems.
These do not have easysolutions, okay, but most of the
time, if we give people space,the solutions they come up with
are better than ours becausethey make more sense for their
(43:39):
own lives.
They make more sense for theirown lives.
They make more sense for theirown culture and their own values
.
How many times have you kind oflike accidentally forced a
parent to do something adifferent way because you want
them to, and then, the minuteyou're not paying attention,
they'll just do what they weregoing to do, because all of us
are like that.
All of us will default in thatthe things that make most sense
to us, and so when you allowpeople space to generate their
(44:01):
own solutions, those solutionsare more likely to stick because
they are already something thatfeels congruent and feels
values-focused.
Because choices are often takenaway as a part of trauma.
Traumatic experiences broadlytook away your power.
They took away your choices.
Things happened to you that youcouldn't control.
(44:23):
The last thing we want to do isaccidentally coerce someone who
has been through trauma.
Okay, and that's a painfulthought to sit with that.
Maybe some of the things I'mdoing, even though they have a
good intention of helping, areforcing people into things who
have a life history of beingforced into things against their
(44:45):
will, and so we also need to do, I think, a better job of
accepting no's and boundarieswhen people set them.
A boundary isn't a place I'mgoing to push.
Initially, because when peopletell me to stop, I should stop,
because a lot of times withtrauma, when people said stop,
(45:08):
people did not, and so coercionis a really important thing to
remember In our efforts toconvince people.
We don't want to bulldoze themor else we are accidentally
maybe recreating dynamicsthey've had to experience in a
lot of other relationships intheir life.
Okay, this is the one where it'slike I'm going to ask you to
(45:28):
look at you and I'm going to askyou to look at your colleagues.
Okay, remember I told youpeople pick up on the tone of
the room, naturally.
Okay, so I've picked up somethings about the tone of this
room.
Any guesses on things I'vepicked up as a presenter up here
about the tone of you, I'vemade a lot of judgments about
(45:49):
you as I've been talking, right,because I've had to alter
things as a result of that.
We all do this.
If you start talking to someoneand their eyes go somewhere
else, you go.
Okay, I need to redirect.
This is not working right.
What do you think I've come tolearn about you as a room by
this last 45 minutes I've spentwith you.
(46:11):
Ah, so maybe I've realized y'allare nodding a whole lot with
how trauma affects grownups.
I wonder if those grownups arehere.
And what I will tell you is,statistically, absolutely those
of us who go into helpingprofessionals like me, like you,
(46:32):
have way higher rates ofchildhood trauma than the
general population.
We are here either because wewant to be the adult we wish we
had or we want to honor theadults we did.
That is true for most of us inhere.
Don't worry if, by the way,that's not true for you.
There's still a great place foryou in this work, even if you
didn't have a trauma history,right.
But let's acknowledge that alot of us do and that it
(46:55):
influences the way we thinkabout this work.
It's a part of our why?
Right, yeah, lovely.
What else?
Anything else that I've pickedup about?
Y'all Say it again oh, thatsometimes I'm having some drift.
The after lunch spot woof, it'shard, right, it's a hard thing.
You know what's so interestingabout that, though?
(47:16):
I think I'm picking up a littleof that.
More of me is picking up peopleengaging, though, like leaning
in and listening and nodding andtalking, because when I see you
talking to your neighbor.
I don't read that as you notlistening to me.
Oftentimes you're talking toyour neighbor because something
sparked for you that I said orbecause you need to get this out
(47:37):
so that you can pay attentionto what's going on.
So do you notice how Iinterpret your behavior changes,
how I feel about you, and itchanges what I would do then.
So we have to realize that thetone we set in our clinics, in
the way that we talk to people,in the way that we talk to each
other, is influencing in realtime the way people are engaging
(48:00):
with us and talking with us.
And a great way to gauge this onyourself is when you vent about
your job.
How kind are you?
Yowzer?
Right, that's a ducky one.
I'm not saying there's no placefor venting.
(48:21):
Remember we're avoiding toxicpositivity.
But if all you do is vent andruminate with your colleagues
and then you jump right backinto work, that's not healthy.
As a person who does a lot ofrumination, work with people
don't do that.
You can have space for yourrumination.
You need to also get out ofthat space, because otherwise
you're bringing all of thatcluster into right where you're
talking to somebody, okay, andit's going to show up in you
(48:42):
looking at your watch more often.
It's going to show up in youcutting them off because you're
feeling impatient.
It's going to show up with younot listening to some things
they're telling you because theydon't align with what you
already think Okay.
And so we need to holdourselves and our colleagues
accountable.
So something you might want topractice is how would you let a
(49:05):
colleague know if you thinkthey're dropping a trauma lens?
I grew up in Michigan y'all inlike suburbs of Detroit.
How I would tell someone andgive them feedback.
Something might be reallydifferent than if you grew up in
Arkansas.
When I first moved here, I waslike does anyone say what
they're thinking at all?
Like it feels like everyone'sjust kind of like if this is the
(49:27):
target, people are like runningaround in circles and circles
to try to avoid the target,right, and now that I've lived
here for almost 15 years, when Igo back to Michigan, people are
like what are you saying?
Just say what you want.
Just say what you're thinking,right?
Southern culture has someindirect communication styles
built into it, but remember,people who have been through
(49:48):
trauma need direct, they needhonesty One of my taglines that
I encourage you to borrow is Irespect you enough to tell you
the truth?
That is respect, is telling youthe truth, because it's not
respectful for me not to tellyou and then proceed to bitch
about it to everybody else.
That's not respectful, right.
(50:10):
And so we need to think about.
We need to think about howwe're doing this, okay.
Okay, because buildingemotionally safe relationships
takes time.
Relationships are built overthousands of moment to moment
interactions.
If you ask me, safna, who'slike a ride or die person in
(50:32):
your life?
That's one of those people.
For me is my husband.
And then, if you ask me, what'sthe one moment that he proved
that to you, that's not a thing.
He proved it to me by, like,countlessly showing up right, by
being consistent over lots andlots of moments.
And I'm telling you, you don'tget someone's trust for free.
Just because you know you'rehere to help doesn't mean you've
(50:57):
earned any sort of trust fromthe person in front of you,
because weren't they hurt bypeople who said they were there
to help?
They were hurt by that.
Let's say, I took a bowl of M&Ms.
Okay, can I use you for anexample?
I took a bowl of M&Ms and Iwent here.
What's your name?
Marley, marley?
I said, marley, take a hand.
Wait.
Did you say Marla Marla, thankyou.
(51:18):
I was like oh.
I was like, oh, I noticed Itook in context clues to notice.
Okay, and so I handed you thisbowl of M&Ms and I said, here,
take a handful of M&Ms.
By the way, only like one ortwo of them in here are
poisonous.
The rest are totally fine,normal M&Ms.
Okay, the whole bowl is normalM&Ms, except for a couple.
I guess you can't tell.
(51:38):
But really, most of these arefine.
How likely, on a scale of one tofive, are you to take the M&Ms?
She's a zero folks up here offthe Likert scale.
Okay, what I'm telling you isyou look like an M&M who hurt
someone.
You look like a person who saidI really care how you're doing
(51:59):
and then use it against you incourt.
Or you look like someone whosaid I believe care how you're
doing and then use it againstyou in court.
Or you look like someone whosaid I believe you and then
started questioning you when youtold them the truth.
So unless you prove you're asafe M&M, why would people trust
you at all, especially with themost important thing in their
lives, which is their children.
Why would anyone trust you?
You have to earn it, and youhave to earn it over and over
(52:24):
and over again, and that can beexhausting, but that's also part
of what we've signed up for inthe job that we chose, okay, and
so it's been really nice, bythe way, hanging out with y'all.
This is such a beautiful drivefrom Little Rock coming over
here too, so this was a reallynice respite for me.
Anyway, this is my email address.
(52:44):
You're not bothering me at all,by the way.
Please email me if you have anyquestions, any feedback.
But also, I really want you topay attention to these links
down here.
If you Google, our Best, ourFacebook page will show up.
We have a YouTube channel fullof free recorded webinars on all
aspects of trauma, and probablyone of our most utilized tools
(53:07):
is we have a clinician registrythat shows you, in every county
in the state, who are providersthat have gone through
trauma-focused treatmenttraining, so you can start to
find the people in yourcommunities who have a higher
likelihood that, once we go,please go to therapy.
It's actually going to work,okay, and so please email me
(53:27):
with anything you have.
I think we've got like fourminutes, but thank you for your
attention and I'm happy to takeany questions.
Host (53:41):
Thanks for listening to this episode of Smart Justice
with Dr Sufna John of theUniversity of Arkansas for
Medical Sciences.
You can find out more about OurBest at the website
ourbestuamsedu.
That's A-R-B-E-S-T, dot.
U-a-m-s, dot, e-d-u, and youcan find them on YouTube at UAMS
(54:03):
Our Best.
Please follow the Smart Justicepodcast so you can be notified
when we drop episodes.
Leave us a rating or review andplease visit smartjusticeorg.
Smart Justice is a non-profitpublication and podcast that
covers the pursuit of betteroutcomes on justice system
related issues, such as childwelfare, incarceration and
(54:25):
juvenile justice.
Our coverage is solutionsoriented, focusing on the
innovative ways in whichcommunities are solving issues
and the lessons that are beinglearned as a result of successes
and challenges.
Until next time.
Hi and welcome to Smart Justice, a service of the
nonprofit Restore Hope whichhelps communities move their
families from crisis to careerby providing software and
services.
We are getting excited aboutreleasing season four, which
will cover juvenile justice, butfirst we wanted to release a
very special bonus episode ofthe show.
(00:20):
Recently, restore Hope staffand many of the wonderful
service providers acrossArkansas who we collaborate with
met for a two-day conference.
We had some very impactfulspeakers and one of those
speakers was Dr Safna John ofthe University of Arkansas for
Medical Sciences.
After she spoke, some of theattendees were asking for the
(00:42):
audio of her speech, so wedecided, with Dr John's
permission, to just release itas a podcast episode so anyone
can benefit.
Dr John specializes in infantand early childhood mental
health.
She leads several statewidecross-system collaborative
efforts across Arkansas,including serving as co-director
(01:03):
of Our Best, which stands forArkansas Building Effective
Services for Trauma.
Since many people who attendedthe conference work with
families in crisis every day,this presentation was designed
for them, so you'll hear herreferring to that, but really it
applies to anyone who has hadadverse childhood experiences,
(01:25):
otherwise known as ACEs, andanyone who has experienced PTSD
as a result, or, of course,their loved ones, just trying to
understand them better.
Before we dive into Dr John'sconversation, we'd like to play
the trailer for our upcomingseason, season 4,.
Feel free to send us feedbackon our podcast or anything else
(01:46):
that we've released.
Send it to media atrestorehopearorg.
That's media at restorehope andthe two letters ARorg.
Podcast Trailer (02:04):
The COVID-19 pandemic brought far-reaching
changes to society.
One troubling consequence hasbeen the rise in juvenile
delinquency and youth crime, andit's just continued to pick up.
We've had several juveniles inour court system.
With schools closed, communityprograms disrupted and families
under increased stress, manyyoung people found themselves
(02:25):
isolated and families underincreased stress.
Many young people foundthemselves isolated and without
essential support systems, whichled them down some dangerous
paths.
Dr. Sufna John (02:32):
We have gone from what I would consider more
petty kind of things within theschools and within our community
to communities surrounded byguns and engaging in violence.
Podcast Trailer (02:42):
They've suffered trauma by guns and
engaging in violence, they'vesuffered trauma.
Their family situation is justnot that stable.
In this season of Smart Justice, we'll explore how communities
across Arkansas are tacklingthis challenge, spotlighting
innovative solutions designednot only to reduce juvenile
crime, but also to createpathways to brighter futures.
We'll hear from judges.
Host (03:04):
There are alternatives that are more effective and get
better outcomes.
Podcast Trailer (03:10):
Law enforcement .
It blew my mind and I wanna askwhy, why, why?
And community leaders, we won'tsay what's wrong with them.
No, that's the wrong question.
The question is what happenedto them About what's working,
what's not, and how we canrestore hope for Arkansas
families.
Our kids are genuinely scared.
(03:30):
I am just very motivated tomake sure we get it right.
Host (03:51):
Join us for the upcoming season on Juvenile Justice.
And here's Dr Safna John in herpresentation, which is meant to
, in her words, recharge thatgenuine compassion battery that
tends to get drained sometimes,so sit back and recharge.
Dr. Sufna John (04:08):
When you're in positions like ours, I think
it's really easy to slide intothis idea of I've heard this
story before, I've been in thisstorm before.
It's almost sometimes like youcan predict the next things
people are going to say and do,because you've seen something
like this over and over and overagain.
Okay, and that's your braindoing its job, by the way.
(04:30):
Like we're supposed to learnfrom the past.
Like can you imagine if, everytime I walked up to a door, my
brain was like what is this slabof wood?
What am I supposed to do to getto the next room?
Like that wouldn't be practical, right, like we have to learn
from our prior experiences.
But, accidentally, what thatsometimes does is make us
(04:51):
underestimate the individualityof people that we serve.
We go.
I've seen this storm and Idon't appreciate the boat
someone is in in navigating thatstorm.
For example, we've all wentthrough the storm of COVID.
I was fortunate enough where Ididn't lose anybody.
I loved during that period oftime.
Can I really say I was in thesame storm as someone who lost
(05:14):
their spouse or their bestfriend or their child?
Of course, not right.
And so, even when we are instorms, we want to be really
mindful of the boats that peoplehave to navigate those storms,
and one of the most powerfulthings that builds our boat is
the life experiences that wehave.
So when we talk about trauma, Iwant you to realize that these
(05:36):
are experiences that are felt asscary, violent or dangerous,
that overwhelm our ability tocope, and, unfortunately, that
these experiences are extremelycommon.
That's one takeaway I want youto have from this presentation.
Trauma is not the exception.
What we know is two-thirds ofpeople across the nation will
experience a traumatic event bythe time they're 16 years old.
(05:58):
So we shouldn't be thinkingthis is not most of who I serve.
We should probably bedefaulting to.
This is who we are serving mostof the time.
And unfortunately, trauma oftenbegets more trauma.
If we think about a kid who hasexperienced an abusive
household, then they get intothe child welfare system, then
(06:18):
they have to move around tothree different homes and lose
track of their family and losesight of their siblings.
All of these things cascade inways that are really hard and I
want you to picture.
Have you had those moments inyour life, you know where, like
nothing can go right and itfeels like you're like universe.
Really right now, there's goingto be more of your piling upon
me Now.
(06:39):
Can you imagine in thosemoments if you were on a stage
where everyone was judging whoyou are based on the worst
moments in your life?
That would suck.
None of us would want thatright.
None of us would want to beunder scrutiny when we're barely
hanging on.
But a lot of times, servicesystems, in an effort to help
you tease apart every singlething that you're doing, make
(07:02):
you talk about your story overand over and over again, and
then we kind of do things thataren't super helpful for people,
and so I want y'all to justremember this idea that we often
look here are the aces.
By the way, we often look atwhat's above the surface in this
tree.
Right, we think aboutexperiences that happen to
(07:22):
individuals or families,specifically things like child
abuse, depression, communityviolence, mental illness, but
what we don't realize is thatnot all those trees are equally
likely to take root.
We cannot pretend we are in acommunity where everyone is at
equal risk for experiencingtrauma.
(07:43):
To heal, you have to tell thetruth, and the truth of it is is
that many people areexperiencing a lot more of these
roots.
They're experiencing a lot moreof poverty and discrimination
and lack of upwards mobility andlack of opportunity.
And so what we end up findingis that people who have
experienced a lot of these typesevents have significant
(08:06):
impairments or problems withtheir biological and their
psychological health.
I work for a hospital and sosometimes people are like I mean
, how do you convince anoncologist or a nephrologist or
a pulmonologist to care?
And what I often tell them isooh, your physical health is way
(08:28):
impacted by the experiencesthat you've had.
And so what we know is peoplewith four or more adverse
childhood experiences in theirlife end up being at higher risk
for lung disease, heart disease, copd, most types of cancer.
Do you remember, by the way,what put people at greater risk
for worse outcomes from COVID,lung disease, heart disease,
(08:49):
metabolic conditions, diabetes,types of cancer, and so what you
see here is like risk begetsrisk.
A lot of times, when we thinkabout trauma, we reduce it down
to the impact on people'schoices.
So we say, like they did thisor they made these choices,
which is why they're in thesituation that they're in.
(09:10):
If you are blessed enough to beborn into a body that did not
have to experience this type ofdysregulation.
We should really be thankfulfor that, because our bodies
will change.
Okay, I can't help but nerd outon science facts sometimes,
sorry guys.
But okay, when you are carryingthe eggs that become your
(09:31):
children, those eggs are presentat birth.
Okay, we don't make more eggsin our lifetime.
All the eggs we will ever haveare present in birth.
That means the eggs that weremy children were raised in my
mother's womb.
The eggs that are you were inyour grandmother's womb.
(09:56):
And when we think aboutgenerational trauma, what were
your grandparents going throughand I'm really looking at some
of you more Does that make sense?
Because some people, if theytrace back to their grandparents
, we are in horrific adverseevents, things like slavery,
right, and so, again, as wethink about the impact of trauma
(10:19):
, we cannot heal if we do nottell the truth.
And so let's look at adversechildhood experiences here in
Arkansas.
I want you to realize that thenational average for
experiencing four or morechildhood experiences that are
adverse in your life is 15%.
Okay, that means any county uphere that's not dark gray is
(10:40):
higher than the national averagehere in Arkansas.
Anything that's not dark grayis higher than the national
average here in Arkansas.
Anything that's not dark gray,okay.
What you should know is whoaright that probably snaps you
into attention.
For example, sebastian County.
One in three of the adultswalking around in your community
have experienced four or moreACEs.
That's not one in three of thepeople who come to mental health
(11:03):
.
That's one in three of thepeople you see in Walmart and
who are your neighbors, who goto the same church or synagogue
as you.
This is the general populationthat you are in.
And then if we look at thecaregivers you specifically
serve, this is 100 Families data.
15% of the parents you servewere in foster care themselves
(11:23):
as children.
Right of the parents you servewere in foster care themselves
as children.
Right, and so when you care alot about kids which I believe
you do families is in the nameof what you do.
I believe you care a lot aboutkids.
My goal for you is to widenthat to parents as well, because
they are often the kids youfeel so much love for.
(11:45):
They just grew up, and oftenwith limited access to the types
of things you're able toprovide for families now, and so
trauma really can impact theway that you parent.
Becoming a parent is a hugestage in adult development.
Of course, you can be an adultwithout being a parent, clearly,
but most of us who are parentswill tell you I went through
(12:07):
substantial changes in my lifeonce I became a parent.
It represented like a turningpoint in my life where things
started to be different, andwhat we need to understand is
that that naturally, wouldtrigger anyone's thoughts about
their own childhood.
Becoming a parent forces you toreconcile your own childhood in
(12:28):
some ways.
So for those of us who hadhealthy childhoods that might be
loving things right, you mightthink, wow, these are beautiful
memories that are gettingactivated for me when I become a
parent.
Did that just go out?
I thought it did.
Hold on, oh, I'm getting like abattery sign.
That's not good.
Hold on, is that?
(12:57):
Oh, okay, this one's on.
Hold on one second.
Let me clip it in.
Okay, no, is that better?
Can you all hear me A littlehigher?
(13:20):
Okay, is that better?
Yeah, okay, will you just tellme in the back.
If you can't hear me, just puta thumb up and I'll try to do
readjusting.
Okay, as we go through things,my voice is fairly loud, but
I'll do my best to kind ofproject, and so what we want to
think about is pregnancy, andparticularly early childhood, is
(13:44):
a time where most people willstart reflecting on their own
childhood, naturally.
The problem with that, though,is those of us who had extremely
traumatic childhoods.
This can be a reemergence ofPTSD and depressive symptoms.
This can be a time where mostpeople also have a lot of toxic
positivity, where they're likemama and daddy, aren't you happy
(14:06):
?
Oh my God, the amount of timeswhen I was raising my children,
people were like soaking everyminute.
I don't want to soak in everyminute.
It sucks.
I haven't slept for more thanthree hours in years, so, like
when you confront my pain withplatitude, that shows me you
don't understand me at all, andI think sometimes, what we do in
(14:29):
our efforts to cheerlead peopleis we show them we don't get it
at all, and, again, we're doingit because we're trying to make
someone feel better.
But the therapist in me wantsto say I think the person you're
trying to make feel better themost is yourself, because you're
uncomfortable with people'spain, and so we try to resolve
(14:49):
it very quickly.
Okay, and the reason.
I hope you see, as we'retalking, by the way, how many
nods are happening around theroom.
You are not alone in this.
This is what all of us gothrough as we're trying to help
people who desperately need ourhelp and our compassion.
So parenting does come naturally, but often in the way you were
(15:10):
parented, and it is verydifficult to give someone
something you did not have.
Very difficult, and we're goingto talk about the ways this
might manifest in what we see,because, unfortunately, once
you've experienced childhoodtrauma, you are at greater risk
for experiencing traumathroughout your lives.
It's like a domino effect where, once that first domino is
(15:33):
pushed, we know that people areat much greater risk for
experiencing a cascade ofdominoes, a cascade of trauma
throughout the course of theirlife, of trauma throughout the
course of their life.
And what do you think peoplethink when they can't seem to
make it, when they keep gettingknocked down every time they try
to pull themselves up, what doyou think happens to people?
(15:56):
They think they're worthless,they think it's hopeless, they
give up, they feel damaged.
I've sat with so many peoplewho are like it's me.
After a while, if somethingkeeps happening to you, most
people go.
It's me, it's me and I'm thereason it's happening.
And so let's think about whatare ways.
Then we can hold that idea ofcompassion as we do our work.
(16:20):
So what I'm going to do isquickly go through domains that
are impacted by trauma and I'mgoing to be asking quickly go
through domains that areimpacted by trauma and I'm going
to be asking you a series ofrhetorical questions.
You don't need to respond, bythe way, out loud Sometimes.
I just want to say that becausewhen you hear a question,
sometimes you feel like you needto.
But feel free to talk out loud,by the way, as long as you're
not doing too much of it todistract your neighbor.
So trauma can really impact theparent-child relationship and I
(16:48):
think we're very used totalking about it as the trauma
in parents impact the kids.
We talk about it as a one-way,directional thing.
Let me tell you if you havebeen through domestic violence
and then has a child who hitsyou when they're mad, that is an
example of your childtriggering you.
Okay, this is a bi-directionalrelationship and we're not going
(17:12):
to blame kids, but we're alsonot going to blame parents,
because that's a compatibilityof fit issue.
Okay, my husband and I have verydifferent temperaments.
Okay, I'm this and my husband'sthe most type B, laid back zen.
He could sit all day and notsay a single word out loud and
(17:33):
he would feel totally chill withthat.
And then we had two kids, myoldest of which is my husband
and my youngest of which is hismama to a T.
And so there are moments where,when my five-year-old,
six-year-old now, when mysix-year-old pitches like crazy,
(17:54):
there are moments where I'mlike I get it, like I get what
you're doing, that's me, like Ialmost find it endearing, like
it's almost funny to me, versusmy husband's like oh my gosh.
And similarly, when my oldestgets very sullen or like whiny,
I'm like and my husband's likeyeah, I get that, I get why that
(18:15):
happens.
So it's not that either one ofus are bad or good.
It's the reality that bothpeople contribute to a
relationship and the way arelationship goes.
But most times parents don'thave space to talk about the
things about their children thatmake them unhappy.
They don't have a place to saysometimes I regret doing this.
Sometimes this wasn't even mychoice to have a child.
(18:37):
I didn't even sign up for thisvoluntarily.
And look at what my life is now.
And we don't really createspaces a lot of times for people
to tell the truth, because weare uncomfortable with hearing
those truths, and so we'll talkabout skill sets to help you,
because trauma impacts you on abiological, physiological level
(18:57):
and those stress symptoms don'tjust disappear when you're in a
better circumstance.
So a lot of people think, ohwell, you're not stressed now,
you're not in trauma now.
Why does your body keep actinglike you are?
Let's take the example of a caraccident.
I was in a really bad caraccident where I rear-ended
someone when I was like 17 or 18.
(19:18):
Still in my body.
If someone brakes too hard in acar, my body does this Exactly
right.
My body goes whoa right.
Still still over a one-timeevent in which, by the way,
nobody got hurt in that eventeither my car, I guess my Honda,
(19:39):
was never the same, but nobodygot hurt and I still can't stop
it.
I still can't stop my body fromreacting in that way.
We also know that one of themost pronounced ways trauma
impacts your body is in the wayyou experience and regulate
emotions.
Experience means the way youunderstand what you're feeling.
(20:01):
Regulate means the way you'reable to modulate or change how
you're feeling.
Have you all ever worked withcaregivers who struggle with
this, where they don't know whatthey're feeling and they don't
know how to change how they'refeeling or modulate how they're
feeling.
This is a really common symptomwe see at a biological level.
Similarly, trauma really wipesout or reduces your level to do
(20:26):
executive functioning.
What that means is likeplanning, organizing, reasoning.
Okay, those types of skills arereally hard.
By the way, those skills don'tfully develop until your mid
twenties.
So if you're like, wow, whatwas early twenties, safna,
thinking Part of it is you couldblame your brain for not being
fully developed, then Okay, butplease remember that when your
(20:50):
trauma occurs will change theway it manifests in your body
and in your brain.
Okay, because 90, I'll stopthere because that's such a big
percentage right?
90% of your brain is developedby the age of five 90%.
(21:10):
So stuff that happens to you inyour childhood can have
dramatic impacts on the way yourbrain is organized through a
lifetime.
That's true for positive things, by the way, too Right, this
idea of when we have positivesupports in early childhood,
that also builds a brain that'sready to take on those types of
(21:30):
challenges, that has theabilities that it needs to
regulate.
So at this point in thepresentation I think it's
tempting to go.
Well, it's screwed becausepeople experience trauma early
in childhood.
There's nothing we can do aboutit.
That's not true.
Actually, take it from atherapist who devotes their
whole life to PTSD.
Ptsd is actually one of themost researched and treatable
(21:53):
mental health disorders we have.
We know exactly, actually, whatto do to support people who've
been through trauma.
The problem is most peoplenever get to me.
They never get to a type oftherapy that's actually been
shown to do anything.
Treatment as usual, yourgeneric community health, is
(22:14):
probably not going to betouching PTSD the way that if
you had cancer, you wouldn'tonly get treatment from your PCP
.
That wouldn't make sense, right?
You need someone who's aspecialist.
This is a very similar thinghere.
Ptsd is a specialist levelmental health concern and we
(22:34):
have resources in our statewhich I'm happy to pass forward
that helps you to start findingwho in your communities are
those specialists.
So what I want to encourage youthis quote is my desktop
background.
A lot of times it says when itfeels disheartening to learn
that trauma changes the brain.
Remember that healing changesthe brain too.
We are today is changing yourbrain right now.
(23:00):
That's not like an exaggeration.
You are literally changing yourbrain sitting here right now,
okay, and so it's not thatpeople are too late, but it's
also.
We're not going to go in therecheerleading and pretend like
these are easy things to undo.
They're not easy things to undo.
It's possible, but it's noteasy and it's definitely not
willpower.
So when we look at biology, wecan see that parents have
(23:21):
increased issues of pain,increased usage of psychotropic
medications, increasedinflammatory diseases and
autoimmune conditions, and so Iwould question for you, like,
how easy is it for you to parentwhen you have the flu, because
that's what our parents aredoing every day, by the way is
(23:42):
they're parenting when theirbody is really compromised?
I told you already that traumaone of the biggest impacts of
trauma in early childhood isemotions.
That it really changes the oftrauma in early childhood is
emotions.
That it really changes the wayyour body experiences and
manages emotions, because how welearn to manage our emotions is
through relationships withothers.
(24:03):
Okay, so let's say this was ababy and that baby was crying
and I picked it up and I wentthere, there, there, there, baby
.
What's wrong with this picture?
What do most people do you goright here, right?
Do you know?
Statistically, here's myscience nerd.
Do you know?
Statistically, most of you willbring your baby to the left
(24:23):
side of your body, no matterwhich handedness you are.
Why, yes, that's where yourheartbeat is.
You know that babies learn toregulate by regulating.
Through me, I'm the one thathelps my children learn to
regulate.
Now let's rewind into a housewhere you didn't have a parent
that was able to pick you up andhold you and take care of you.
(24:46):
Maybe they were high, maybethey were depressed, maybe they
also had a childhood where noone took care of their nervous
system either, and what you endup seeing then is it's really
difficult to regulate youremotions later in life.
It's not untreatable, but can'twe admit that it would be
harder to be able to do?
And so I wonder for you howeasy is it for you to parent on
(25:10):
your moodiest days and the dayswhen your emotions are in least
of your control?
And, unfortunately, emotionsdrive a lot of the behaviors
that we have.
How we are feeling is a directpathway to how we act most of
the time, and so what we oftensee then is people who have more
difficulty managing theiremotions guess what also have
more difficulty managing theirbehaviors.
(25:32):
You might see things like highimpulsive decision making, high
risk-taking behaviors okay, andI would encourage you all those
behaviors that we talk about ashugely problematic in adults.
We kind of do them too.
Here's an example when you havea stressful day at work, many
of you will go let's go get abeer, let's go drink a glass of
(25:55):
wine.
You're using substances tomanage your emotions in that
moment.
That's normal.
That's a lot of us.
But why, when parents do thatbehavior that we're serving, do
we talk about it as completelyinconceivable to us how you
would use substances when youknow what a bad impact they have
(26:17):
?
And so, again, we want to bethinking about how easy is it to
parent when your child ishaving a meltdown and you are
running late for work, when yourbody right.
It's so bad when your body'slike this and you're having to
parent still, because parentingis relentless, it never stops,
(26:37):
you can never stop.
And when you have difficultywith your emotions and
difficulty with your behavior,it changes the way you think, it
changes the way you think aboutthe world and it really changes
the way you think.
It changes the way you thinkabout the world and it really
changes the way you think aboutyourself.
I will tell you, nothing hasmade me feel more incompetent in
(26:58):
my life than my six-year-oldwhen he was three.
Who'd be like, yeah, no, I'mnot going to do anything, you
say?
I was like I'm a childpsychologist who literally
teaches people around thecountry about this, and my
six-year-old's like, nah, I'mnot going to do it.
Right, kids can make us feelterrible about ourselves, which
(27:19):
is so funny, right, because wetalk about kids as, like, they
bring us so much joy, blah, blah, blah.
They do.
I love my kids.
They're everything to me, andsome days they make me feel so
bad about myself, right, andthat's normal, right?
So we open up conversations forall the different ways that
parenting impacts people, notjust the ways we want to hear,
(27:40):
so we can check off on our plansthat you're getting better.
Finally, this one, I think, isnot one that people talk about
often enough.
It's called dissociation.
What this means is I'm notconnected to what's happening in
real time.
Now, okay, how many of you inthe course of this talk?
You don't have to raise yourhand, but feel free.
(28:01):
To how many of you have foundthat you've drifted away for
like a minute or two and thenyou lock back in to what we're
talking about you guys don'tthink I'm good enough, I'm just
kidding.
But that's normal, right?
Is?
We kind of go away for a littlewhile and we get snapped back
into attention.
Have you ever driven to like afamiliar place and you park your
car and then you're like did Idrive here?
Like I don't remember any ofthat.
(28:22):
I literally I hope I wasfollowing the rules.
I don't remember.
Dissociation is a normal thingthat we do, okay, but it's also
a survival strategy for trauma,because can you imagine what it
would be like to stay fullyconnected to your body during a
sexual assault?
(28:42):
Would you want someone to befully connected to their body in
the middle of a house fire?
We don't want that.
Our bodies are built to protectus and they go.
This is not a good idea.
Right, you need to go somewhereelse, because this is
immanageable without that.
But what the problem is then isyour body starts getting on
(29:04):
high alert and going oh, I knowwhat this is happening.
Let's get out of here.
I need to escape you and pullyou way too quickly.
So then from a house fire itturns into any time.
My heart beats really, reallyfast.
My body's like something'shappening, something's going
down, pull her offline Right, weneed to protect her.
Pull her offline.
And this happens a lot withparents.
Have you noticed that sometimesyou feel like you're repeating
(29:26):
yourself a lot with families?
We were like we've definitelytalked about this before, like
several times, and you We'vedefinitely talked about this
before, like several times, andyou're acting as if it's brand
new information.
A lot of times it is becausetheir body wasn't locked in in a
moment when you thought theywere Because dissociation.
I couldn't tell which of youwere going off into your own
(29:48):
land and coming back here.
I can't tell that from lookingat you, right.
And so part of it is usthinking about how do we
normalize that for parents andthen say something like so I'm
going to check in with you everyonce in a while to make sure
your brain hasn't done thatthing where it just like pulls
you away, right.
So every once in a while I'llgo like hey, you still with me,
(30:08):
like what did we just talk about?
And I'm doing that not becauseI think you're stupid, not
because I think you're dumb.
I'm doing that because Iunderstand how brains work when
they've been through trauma andI'm not going to forget that
knowledge when I'm interactingwith you Because I have a lot of
profession.
I train professionals as most ofmy job Okay, it's the best and
(30:28):
I train a lot of professionalswho can sit in a conference room
like this, nod their head andunderstand everything I'm saying
, and then the minute they're infront of a parent, all that
goes out the window and theyjust treat the parent as if they
didn't know all thisinformation.
It is great that you'relearning new things, but they
won't help people if you don'tdo something differently.
(30:49):
Okay, it's not enough just tobuild your knowledge.
We have to use that knowledgeto change our behaviors, or else
we're going to keep doing thesame things that we have been
doing for a long period of time,and so that might lead you,
hopefully, to this idea of likeokay, safna, I'm bought in.
I get the idea that traumaimpacts people in a variety of
(31:11):
ways, that it's understandablethe problems that I'm people in
a variety of ways, that it'sunderstandable the problems that
I'm having in engaging familiesin services and helping them to
meet their milestones.
I'm at a place now where I needto know what can I do about
that.
If I have a tagline for myentire career, this would be it.
I don't know if you guysnoticed that I've been dragging
(31:32):
this soapbox behind me thisentire day.
It's very exhausting, right,but this would be my whole life.
If I could sum it up is thatfostering resilience in children
means investing in the adultswho support them.
When you look at this graphic,adults literally carve out
(31:55):
pieces of themselves to buildtheir children.
My kids still have cells fromme in their bodies now, and I
still have cells from them in mybody too.
This is happening for allcaregivers and children.
This is happening for allcaregivers and children Because
(32:18):
the best predictor this is thegood news.
Okay, the best predictor of howsomeone does after trauma is not
the type of trauma or theseverity it was.
It's not the age that you were,it's not your personality, it's
not your intellect, it's notyour race, it's not your
religion, because those are allthings, most of the time, we
can't control.
The single best predictor of ifyou do well after trauma is
their presence of at least onesignificant and consistent adult
(32:41):
who can buffer the impacts ofthis on you.
That could be your caregiver,it could be a coach, it could be
a pastor, it could be aneighbor, it could be an aunt
when you think about your ownlife.
Okay, you have people like this, hopefully, people that you can
trace back to in adulthood,that really made a difference
(33:03):
for you when you were a kid andthose aren't always permanent
relationships, by the way.
So I told you that I train a lotand that this is my personality
all the time.
So if you're wondering, like,what's Safna like as a friend?
This, what's Safna like as atherapist?
This, right, this is just who Iam, right, this is how I
(33:25):
operate, and so it probablydoesn't surprise you then that
I'm someone who talked a lotgrowing up in school, all the
time, and I got in trouble forit all the time, all the time,
daily trouble for talking toomuch.
And then my third grade teacher,mrs Frank I have no idea where
she is now, by the way, I don'teven know if she's alive anymore
.
She's not a permanent fixturein my life at all.
(33:46):
She was the first person thatwas like hey, safna, she's like,
this is something reallyspecial about you, and she's
like I bet you're going to usethis voice for like really good
things.
And that was the first time Ihad any adult who was like this
isn't something we dislike aboutyou.
This is a part of you thatyou're going to use and I do use
(34:07):
it every day now and so I wantto help you realize you can be
this adult for people, even ifyou come into their life for
very short periods of time.
So we're going to be shiftingthat lens I bet you've heard
this before of what's wrong withyou, to what happened to you,
(34:28):
and I would add, and whatcontinues to happen to you,
right, that we want to shiftthat lens, but it's not
sufficient enough to go yeah, weknow this person's been through
a lot of trauma and thencompletely throw it out the
window when we get frustratedwith them.
I often ask therapists that I'mtraining, so, knowing dad's
(34:48):
history, how does that changethe way you act towards him?
And if you can't tell me prettyquickly how you're making
accommodations for that, thatmight suggest you aren't, that
you aren't really holding itpresent in your mind when you're
doing that.
Interacting, that it's kind ofthat information that sits in
the back of your mind and youcan do it when someone reminds
(35:09):
you, but maybe you're not doingit as proactively, so that may
be one piece of homework for youwhen you leave today is to
think about what's.
One thing I wanna do moreintentionally with families.
I serve knowing that most ofthem have a trauma history like
this, and we need you to do thisas authentically as possible.
(35:31):
Spoiler alert people can tellwhen you're faking compassion.
They know when you actuallydon't feel that way.
When you grow up with trauma,you become an expert observer of
other people.
Okay, because you had to beright.
You had to be able to tell isdad sober or drunk?
In this moment, you had to beable to tell is mom having a bad
day or a good day or a mediumday?
(35:52):
Right, because that that waswhat made you safe or not safe.
But what that means now isthey're watching you.
They're watching the way youtalk to them.
They're watching what your faceis doing.
They are paying attention and,by the way, they're also paying
attention to how you treat eachother, and we're going to talk
about that soon, because themost compatible stance with the
(36:18):
trauma-informed stance is one ofbenevolence.
Most compatible stance with thetrauma-informed stance is one of
benevolence.
What this basically means is Iassume most people are doing
their best with what they haveand what their environment
allows them to do, because it'snot just about what we know
right, it's also about what ourenvironment allows.
I can know that having a stablehouse is good for my kids If I
(36:39):
can't afford one.
My environment's not letting meuse that knowledge right.
But a lot of times I think weassume that it's just that
people don't know.
They know.
A lot of times they just can'tdo it within the environmental
constraints that they're in, andso this might sound really
floofy to some people, this ideaof like I just assume the best
(36:59):
intentions of other people mostof the time.
But I encourage you.
This is mostly a gift you aregiving yourself.
You will be so much more of aregulated, authentic, optimistic
.
This will keep you in this jobfor a lifetime if you are able
to genuinely recharge thatbenevolence for other people.
(37:23):
Okay, and so what we you want tothink to yourself?
What makes granting thatbenevolence to people difficult?
Because that'll be differentfor each of you.
For some people, it's when aparent explicitly does not do
what I told them to do.
That's going to make it hardfor me to have benevolence for
them.
Or if a parent doesn't thinkabout the impact of their
(37:45):
interactions on me, my staff, ortheir spouse or their partner.
That's going to be the thingthat makes it hard.
The first idea of correctingyour biases is to know where
they exist in the first place,and that's different for
everyone, right?
So this is another piece ofhomework to examine in yourself,
and that's different foreveryone, right?
So this is another piece ofhomework to examine in yourself.
What are the things that peopledo that drive me the most crazy
(38:05):
, that make me drop benevolencethe easiest?
Because, if I know that I cancourse correct for that, one of
my favorite supervisors of alltime told me something that I
think about daily that you arenot responsible for your first
thought, but you are responsiblefor your second thought and
(38:25):
your first action, that all ofus will have these gut feelings.
You can't take this out of yourbrain, okay, trust me as
someone who does a lot of bias,anti-bias work.
You can't pull this out of yourbrain.
This is built into the way yourbrain works.
Shortcuts, okay, but I amtelling you, even though you
have breathed the smog in ofbias right, you can't control to
(38:47):
breathe in smog, we're all init.
You can't control that.
It is your responsibility toexpel your lungs, though.
It is your responsibility tochallenge those thoughts that
you have and change the wayyou're acting.
So hear me when I say you'renot a bad person.
If you have these reactions,frankly, they're probably a sign
you really care about whatyou're doing, that you have
(39:08):
these reactions and we don'thave the luxury of just
operating on our first reactions, because people are relying on
us for really important things.
So we need to take the time tothink about the reactions we
have and the impact that has onother people.
Because we need to take thetime to think about the
reactions we have and the impactthat has on other people
because we want to avoid makingassumptions.
I've spent today telling you allthe ways that trauma can impact
(39:30):
people.
Okay, what I didn't tell you isonly one-third of people who go
through trauma develop PTSD.
Two-thirds of people don't.
Even within PTSD, you can looktotally different.
Some people with PTSD haveheightened alert systems, which
means they get scared all thetime.
Some people have dampened alertsymptoms, which means that when
(39:52):
something's scary, they don'tperceive it as scary.
It is a wide variety of waysthat trauma can impact someone
and we don't want to assume thatknowing someone's history means
knowing really anything aboutthem because you don't know how
that impacted them.
Sometimes I've had judges orlawyers or other people tell me
(40:13):
what is this person's traumahistory and on the stand I go.
I'm not going to talk aboutthat because the actual events
are not nearly as important asthe way this impacted someone.
So I don not going to talkabout that Because the actual
events are not nearly asimportant as the way this
impacted someone.
So I don't need to graphicallygo into detail with you about
what this person's history is.
For us to appreciate the waythat history is impacting their
life and that's the thing tofocus on here we want to support
(40:38):
protective factors, becausewhat that does is show someone
you are so much more than thebad things that have happened to
you.
You might be a mom who losesher temper on her kids a lot,
and you might also be a mom whonails chocolate chip cookies
every time.
That's true.
You're all of those things,right?
(41:00):
Remember?
I started this presentationwith telling you I'm all of
those things.
I am all of who I am.
And if we only focus on deficitswhich, by the way, our
insurance systems and ourhealthcare really try to get us
to do if we only focus on theweaknesses.
We kind of accidentally tellthe story that you are only what
has happened to you, and that'snot fair to anybody.
And we should ask about values,because we often assume that
(41:27):
poor behavior reflects poorvalues.
So if someone doesn't dosomething, it's because they
don't have enough value for it.
Okay, let me tell you, ifsomeone came up to me and said
something, I will give you amillion dollars if you can solve
this one calculus problem.
Let me tell you, a milliondollars is 10 out of 10
motivating for me.
Okay, I really want it.
(41:48):
So if any of you have thatlying around, I want it.
Just know that this is highlymotivating for me.
I cannot do that.
I do not have it in me.
I purposely took a job wheremath is not a thing in my world.
Right, I can't do it.
It's not that I don't havevalue for it, it's not that I
wasn't motivated appropriatelyenough, I just can't do it.
(42:09):
But we assume when people don'tdo what we tell them, it's
because they don't care.
But a lot of human behaviorisn't dictated by our values.
A lot of it is either automatic, that comes out of our bodies
day to day, or it's reflectiveof lagging skills, that we have
things that we don't know how todo yet right.
And so I want you to startthinking about why has someone
(42:31):
acted in a way I don't like.
So maybe that first thought isew, I don't like that at all.
And that second thought is Iwonder why.
I wonder what it is about themthat is making me react this way
.
And I wonder what it is aboutme that's making me react this
way, because my own values alsoshift, the way I listen to other
(42:52):
people and the things thatbother me when other people do
them.
Because most of the time, newtherapists especially struggle
with this idea of I have to knoweverything to do to fix things.
So if someone comes to me witha problem, I need to be the
expert who solves their problem.
And for me, I'm like girl onethat's a little arrogant to
(43:16):
assume you are the holder of allthese solutions.
If there was a simple solutionto most of this, don't you think
it would have been done already?
Right?
You're dealing with verycomplex social problems.
These do not have easysolutions, okay, but most of the
time, if we give people space,the solutions they come up with
are better than ours becausethey make more sense for their
(43:39):
own lives.
They make more sense for theirown lives.
They make more sense for theirown culture and their own values
.
How many times have you kind oflike accidentally forced a
parent to do something adifferent way because you want
them to, and then, the minuteyou're not paying attention,
they'll just do what they weregoing to do, because all of us
are like that.
All of us will default in thatthe things that make most sense
to us, and so when you allowpeople space to generate their
(44:01):
own solutions, those solutionsare more likely to stick because
they are already something thatfeels congruent and feels
values-focused.
Because choices are often takenaway as a part of trauma.
Traumatic experiences broadlytook away your power.
They took away your choices.
Things happened to you that youcouldn't control.
(44:23):
The last thing we want to do isaccidentally coerce someone who
has been through trauma.
Okay, and that's a painfulthought to sit with that.
Maybe some of the things I'mdoing, even though they have a
good intention of helping, areforcing people into things who
have a life history of beingforced into things against their
(44:45):
will, and so we also need to do, I think, a better job of
accepting no's and boundarieswhen people set them.
A boundary isn't a place I'mgoing to push.
Initially, because when peopletell me to stop, I should stop,
because a lot of times withtrauma, when people said stop,
(45:08):
people did not, and so coercionis a really important thing to
remember In our efforts toconvince people.
We don't want to bulldoze themor else we are accidentally
maybe recreating dynamicsthey've had to experience in a
lot of other relationships intheir life.
Okay, this is the one where it'slike I'm going to ask you to
(45:28):
look at you and I'm going to askyou to look at your colleagues.
Okay, remember I told youpeople pick up on the tone of
the room, naturally.
Okay, so I've picked up somethings about the tone of this
room.
Any guesses on things I'vepicked up as a presenter up here
about the tone of you, I'vemade a lot of judgments about
(45:49):
you as I've been talking, right,because I've had to alter
things as a result of that.
We all do this.
If you start talking to someoneand their eyes go somewhere
else, you go.
Okay, I need to redirect.
This is not working right.
What do you think I've come tolearn about you as a room by
this last 45 minutes I've spentwith you.
(46:11):
Ah, so maybe I've realized y'allare nodding a whole lot with
how trauma affects grownups.
I wonder if those grownups arehere.
And what I will tell you is,statistically, absolutely those
of us who go into helpingprofessionals like me, like you,
(46:32):
have way higher rates ofchildhood trauma than the
general population.
We are here either because wewant to be the adult we wish we
had or we want to honor theadults we did.
That is true for most of us inhere.
Don't worry if, by the way,that's not true for you.
There's still a great place foryou in this work, even if you
didn't have a trauma history,right.
But let's acknowledge that alot of us do and that it
(46:55):
influences the way we thinkabout this work.
It's a part of our why?
Right, yeah, lovely.
What else?
Anything else that I've pickedup about?
Y'all Say it again oh, thatsometimes I'm having some drift.
The after lunch spot woof, it'shard, right, it's a hard thing.
You know what's so interestingabout that, though?
(47:16):
I think I'm picking up a littleof that.
More of me is picking up peopleengaging, though, like leaning
in and listening and nodding andtalking, because when I see you
talking to your neighbor.
I don't read that as you notlistening to me.
Oftentimes you're talking toyour neighbor because something
sparked for you that I said orbecause you need to get this out
(47:37):
so that you can pay attentionto what's going on.
So do you notice how Iinterpret your behavior changes,
how I feel about you, and itchanges what I would do then.
So we have to realize that thetone we set in our clinics, in
the way that we talk to people,in the way that we talk to each
other, is influencing in realtime the way people are engaging
(48:00):
with us and talking with us.
And a great way to gauge this onyourself is when you vent about
your job.
How kind are you?
Yowzer?
Right, that's a ducky one.
I'm not saying there's no placefor venting.
(48:21):
Remember we're avoiding toxicpositivity.
But if all you do is vent andruminate with your colleagues
and then you jump right backinto work, that's not healthy.
As a person who does a lot ofrumination, work with people
don't do that.
You can have space for yourrumination.
You need to also get out ofthat space, because otherwise
you're bringing all of thatcluster into right where you're
talking to somebody, okay, andit's going to show up in you
(48:42):
looking at your watch more often.
It's going to show up in youcutting them off because you're
feeling impatient.
It's going to show up with younot listening to some things
they're telling you because theydon't align with what you
already think Okay.
And so we need to holdourselves and our colleagues
accountable.
So something you might want topractice is how would you let a
(49:05):
colleague know if you thinkthey're dropping a trauma lens?
I grew up in Michigan y'all inlike suburbs of Detroit.
How I would tell someone andgive them feedback.
Something might be reallydifferent than if you grew up in
Arkansas.
When I first moved here, I waslike does anyone say what
they're thinking at all?
Like it feels like everyone'sjust kind of like if this is the
(49:27):
target, people are like runningaround in circles and circles
to try to avoid the target,right, and now that I've lived
here for almost 15 years, when Igo back to Michigan, people are
like what are you saying?
Just say what you want.
Just say what you're thinking,right?
Southern culture has someindirect communication styles
built into it, but remember,people who have been through
(49:48):
trauma need direct, they needhonesty One of my taglines that
I encourage you to borrow is Irespect you enough to tell you
the truth?
That is respect, is telling youthe truth, because it's not
respectful for me not to tellyou and then proceed to bitch
about it to everybody else.
That's not respectful, right.
(50:10):
And so we need to think about.
We need to think about howwe're doing this, okay.
Okay, because buildingemotionally safe relationships
takes time.
Relationships are built overthousands of moment to moment
interactions.
If you ask me, safna, who'slike a ride or die person in
(50:32):
your life?
That's one of those people.
For me is my husband.
And then, if you ask me, what'sthe one moment that he proved
that to you, that's not a thing.
He proved it to me by, like,countlessly showing up right, by
being consistent over lots andlots of moments.
And I'm telling you, you don'tget someone's trust for free.
Just because you know you'rehere to help doesn't mean you've
(50:57):
earned any sort of trust fromthe person in front of you,
because weren't they hurt bypeople who said they were there
to help?
They were hurt by that.
Let's say, I took a bowl of M&Ms.
Okay, can I use you for anexample?
I took a bowl of M&Ms and Iwent here.
What's your name?
Marley, marley?
I said, marley, take a hand.
Wait.
Did you say Marla Marla, thankyou.
(51:18):
I was like oh.
I was like, oh, I noticed Itook in context clues to notice.
Okay, and so I handed you thisbowl of M&Ms and I said, here,
take a handful of M&Ms.
By the way, only like one ortwo of them in here are
poisonous.
The rest are totally fine,normal M&Ms.
Okay, the whole bowl is normalM&Ms, except for a couple.
I guess you can't tell.
(51:38):
But really, most of these arefine.
How likely, on a scale of one tofive, are you to take the M&Ms?
She's a zero folks up here offthe Likert scale.
Okay, what I'm telling you isyou look like an M&M who hurt
someone.
You look like a person who saidI really care how you're doing
(51:59):
and then use it against you incourt.
Or you look like someone whosaid I believe care how you're
doing and then use it againstyou in court.
Or you look like someone whosaid I believe you and then
started questioning you when youtold them the truth.
So unless you prove you're asafe M&M, why would people trust
you at all, especially with themost important thing in their
lives, which is their children.
Why would anyone trust you?
You have to earn it, and youhave to earn it over and over
(52:24):
and over again, and that can beexhausting, but that's also part
of what we've signed up for inthe job that we chose, okay, and
so it's been really nice, bythe way, hanging out with y'all.
This is such a beautiful drivefrom Little Rock coming over
here too, so this was a reallynice respite for me.
Anyway, this is my email address.
(52:44):
You're not bothering me at all,by the way.
Please email me if you have anyquestions, any feedback.
But also, I really want you topay attention to these links
down here.
If you Google, our Best, ourFacebook page will show up.
We have a YouTube channel fullof free recorded webinars on all
aspects of trauma, and probablyone of our most utilized tools
(53:07):
is we have a clinician registrythat shows you, in every county
in the state, who are providersthat have gone through
trauma-focused treatmenttraining, so you can start to
find the people in yourcommunities who have a higher
likelihood that, once we go,please go to therapy.
It's actually going to work,okay, and so please email me
(53:27):
with anything you have.
I think we've got like fourminutes, but thank you for your
attention and I'm happy to takeany questions.
Host (53:41):
Thanks for listening to this episode of Smart Justice
with Dr Sufna John of theUniversity of Arkansas for
Medical Sciences.
You can find out more about OurBest at the website
ourbestuamsedu.
That's A-R-B-E-S-T, dot.
U-a-m-s, dot, e-d-u, and youcan find them on YouTube at UAMS
(54:03):
Our Best.
Please follow the Smart Justicepodcast so you can be notified
when we drop episodes.
Leave us a rating or review andplease visit smartjusticeorg.
Smart Justice is a non-profitpublication and podcast that
covers the pursuit of betteroutcomes on justice system
related issues, such as childwelfare, incarceration and
(54:25):
juvenile justice.
Our coverage is solutionsoriented, focusing on the
innovative ways in whichcommunities are solving issues
and the lessons that are beinglearned as a result of successes
and challenges.
Until next time.
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