July 10, 2024 • 52 mins
You don't need to be a doctor to save lives! Aarati goes into the life of a headstrong fashion designer-turned-chemist, who created polymer based fabrics like spandex, polyester, and Kevlar.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Arpita (00:10):
Hi everyone.
And welcome back to the SmartTea podcast, where we talk about
the lives of scientists andinnovators who shape the world.
How are you, Aarati?
Aarati (00:19):
I'm doing pretty well, Arpita.
How are you?
Arpita (00:22):
I'm doing great.
Um, happy 4th of July.
Aarati (00:25):
Yes.
Arpita (00:27):
It is uncharacteristically warm and
summery feeling for the BayArea.
I have lived in San Franciscofor a long time and I very
strongly associate the 4th ofJuly with being foggy because we
tend to have very foggy summersin the city and then we get a
lot of sunshine in September andOctober, but this year both
(00:48):
Aarati and I are wearing tanktops and it's very warm in the
bay, uh, which is pretty funnybecause this doesn't normally
happen.
Um, and I've had a very lovelyholiday.
I went camping, uh, just northof the city last night, which
was actually really perfectbecause we finished work and
then got to leave in theafternoon.
(01:10):
And then spend the night.
And then this morning we droveto Stinson Beach.
We got there just before nine.
Um, like we woke up in themorning, like camp, like
whenever, like we
Aarati (01:20):
You, you're early birds.
I know.
Yeah.
Arpita (01:23):
We were early birds and we were also right there, like
the campsite was like rightthere.
And so then we just went overexpecting there to not be that
many people because it wasbefore nine.
The parking lot, completelyfull.
We got one of the last spots.
It was 8 45 AM.
Aarati (01:38):
Oh
Arpita (01:38):
People had already set up like all these tents, all
their grills, their whole setup.
And then by like 11:30, 11:45, Iwas like, I'm ready to go.
Like, this is, this is what Ineeded.
I got what I needed.
I wanted to sit in the sun for alittle while.
And I'm ready to go home.
Aarati (01:54):
Do they have fireworks over there?
Like, what's the big draw?
Arpita (01:58):
What's the end game?
Yeah.
Aarati (02:01):
Where I live, um, there's like a lake where they,
or I don't know, lake might betoo strong of a word, like a
lagoon type area, where they,you know, shoot fireworks over
and on the perimeter of that, itgets like people start putting
up, you know, blankets andchairs and everything again,
starting at like 8 o'clock.
And then they just stay therethe whole day until 9 PM when
(02:25):
they finally shoot off thefireworks.
So I'm just wondering, like, isthere a...
Is there something like that atStinson Beach?
Arpita (02:31):
I have no idea.
I don't normally go to StinsonBeach, but we just happened to
be camping nearby.
So then because it was so nice,we were just like, Oh, let's go
hang out at the beach for alittle while.
But I don't know anyway, but onour way back, so we're driving
back down south, down highwayone towards the city.
Aarati (02:48):
Mm hmm.
Arpita (02:49):
Miles, like miles and miles and miles of cars just
waiting in line to drive northto the Stinson Beach entrance.
And I was like, this parking lotis full.
Like, I don't know what all ofyou guys are doing.
Also, for people who are notfrom the Bay Area, Stinson Beach
is not very big.
Aarati (03:07):
Mm
Arpita (03:07):
It's a pretty small strip of beach.
And, most of the time in thispart of Northern California,
it's pretty cold and it's, youknow, not really the type of
beach weather where you wouldthink about like laying on the
sand.
So normally it's like totallyfine.
It's usually people just kind ofwalking around, but there's not
the real estate for the hundredsand hundreds of people who are
(03:29):
trying
Aarati (03:29):
why I'm wondering what are they all doing over
Arpita (03:32):
No idea.
But I guess my point is like,it's not a cool enough beach to
warrant that sort of crowd.
Aarati (03:39):
Yeah.
No, that's like, I'm like, whydon't they go to Ocean Beach or
like Funston Or like, yeah,we're on the coast.
There's so
Arpita (03:47):
There's other
Aarati (03:48):
so many.
Yeah.
There's so many other, like,what is it about Stinson Beach
that everyone's like, this is.
Oh my gosh, so weird.
Arpita (03:55):
No.
Logan and I are debating in thecar being like, should we roll
down the window and tell peoplethat this party lot is full?
Like that they're all waitingfor nothing.
Aarati (04:05):
Oh my god, just like be a good Samaritan
Arpita (04:08):
I was just like, I would have bailed so long ago.
Like, I don't, I don't evencare.
I would have done like an eightpoint turn and then just flipped
it around on the highway.
Like, I'm just like, there's nochance I'd be waiting in a line
for something like that.
Aarati (04:19):
At this point I'm like, even if there's like a
spectacular fireworks display,it's not worth it.
It's, you know, watch it on TV.
I don't know.
This is my whole, yeah, this ismy whole family's mentality
though.
I firmly believe this is why Ido nothing in life except sit at
home because I'm just like, Ican't be bothered, you know,
going in lines like this.
(04:41):
Yeah.
Arpita (04:41):
Yeah.
Anyway, so that's what'shappening in the Bay right now.
So if you're at home right now,you're not missing out.
And I felt very smug about myplans because I was driving
against the traffic and I waslike,
Aarati (04:52):
Good for you.
Arpita (04:53):
I'm better than all of you.
Aarati (04:54):
Yeah, exactly.
Good for you.
Yeah, totally.
Arpita (04:58):
Yes, um, I'm very sorry if you waited in traffic.
Um, I felt pretty good aboutmyself.
Um, anyway, that's my update onBay Area traffic and
Aarati (05:08):
Weather and traffic brought to you by Arpita.
Thank you.
Arpita (05:12):
Seriously, it's shit show out there.
You're not missing out.
Aarati (05:14):
It's amazing.
No, but you're right though.
I'm, I'm thoroughly enjoying theweather.
My entire family is dying andI'm like, I'm warm for the first
time in five years.
This is amazing.
I love it.
Arpita (05:26):
Feels so nice.
It's like perfectly warm.
It's like not too windy.
It definitely feels very summerand we don't normally get this
during the true summer months inthe calendar.
So it's lovely.
Um, but yeah, those are myupdates.
I think we're ready for a littlestory.
Aarati (05:41):
Okay, so today's story is going to be an interesting
one because my brother for awhile now has been harping on me
to do a polymer scientist andI've been resisting and
resisting.
He works on polymers, which iswhy he wants me to do one.
And anyone who needs a quickreminder, polymers are molecules
(06:03):
that are made of long, repeatingunits.
They're long chains.
And there are natural polymerslike rubber, wool, cellulose and
even your DNA, because that'slike long chains of nucleotides.
So that's a polymer.
But then there's also syntheticpolymers that we've developed to
create all different types ofmaterials like Teflon,
polyester, latex, and styrofoam.
(06:26):
And so because of that, there'sall these different fields of
studies around polymers.
Especially from an environmentalstandpoint, because most
synthetic polymers are madeusing petroleum.
So how do we get away from thatis a big question.
And then another one is, how dowe break down some of these
polymer materials, like plasticsthat stay in our environment
(06:49):
forever and ever.
And so that's what my brotherworks on.
And so that's just why he'sbeen, you know, after me about
like, you should do polymers.
They're so interesting.
Okay.
So like, that's a quickorientation on today's topic,
um, but as for the person thatwe're going to be talking about,
we're going to be talking abouta scientist who has been
nicknamed The Queen of Polymers,Stephanie Kwolek, and you may
(07:14):
have heard her name beforebecause she invented Kevlar,
which is the fabric that youstill use today to make
bulletproof vests.
Arpita (07:22):
Yeah, yeah.
And I love that we have a queen.
Aarati (07:25):
Yes, a queen.
So, Stephanie Louise Kwolek.
She was born on July 21st, 1923in New Kensington, Pennsylvania.
I definitely said that wrong.
New Kensington, Pennsylvania,which is a suburb of Pittsburgh.
She and her parents, John andAni-, I'm going to say this
(07:47):
wrong too, Aniela, are I havepracticed that so many times, I
still can't get it right.
Aniela.
John and Aniela, or"Nellie",were Polish immigrants, and they
had two kids, Stephanie and herlittle brother, Stanley.
Her father loved to read booksand newspapers and Stephanie
always remembered him readingsomething when he came home from
(08:09):
work.
And he was an amateurnaturalist.
So he and Stephanie would go outand explore the woods around
their home.
They would spend hours observingthe forest, collecting plants
and looking at all the birds andfrogs and insects around them.
And Stephanie even kept ascrapbook of all the things that
she collected from the woods,like pressed leaves, and
(08:31):
flowers, and seeds, and evenlittle bits of snake skin that
she would label with herfather's help.
Arpita (08:39):
Whoa.
Okay, kind of gross about thesnake skin.
What is the definition of anaturalist?
Is it like if you're an amateurnaturalist?
Aarati (08:46):
Yeah, so.
Arpita (08:47):
An interest in nature or is there more to it?
Aarati (08:50):
He doesn't professionally study natural
things like he doesn'tprofessionally study nature, but
he just enjoyed it very much toobserve it and look at it.
I think he actually worked at afoundry
Arpita (09:02):
I'm now thinking that I feel like most of the people
that I know who live in the BayArea are probably amateur
naturalists.
Aarati (09:08):
Probably we have a pretty big outdoor culture.
So yeah, absolutely.
Arpita (09:14):
It's like every time I go on a hike and point out this
like new flower that I find orsomething and I'm just like, Oh,
this is blah, blah.
Aarati (09:20):
So maybe just the, just the fact that he was in
Pennsylvania made him anaturalist.
If he was in California, hewould have just been another
normal guy.
Arpita (09:28):
Have just been a Californian.
Yeah,
Aarati (09:29):
Yeah, exactly.
Arpita (09:31):
We do live up to our stereotypes.
Aarati (09:33):
We do.
Um, but sadly when Stephanie wasjust 10 years old, her father
died and I'm not sure whathappened.
Like I couldn't find out why.
But he was very young.
He was in his early forties.
Um, yeah, but by then Stephaniehad already inherited his love
for science and the naturalworld.
(09:54):
After that, her mother, who I'mgoing to call Nellie, who was a
seamstress, had to care forStephanie and Stanley by
herself.
And later in her life, Stephaniesaid that her mother probably
was the one person who had themost influence on her career.
She was, quote, an intelligentwoman of great determination and
strong will, yet she had a greatsense of humor, end quote.
(10:16):
And that is good to hear,because by now it was the 1930s,
and The Great Depression washitting the family hard.
So
Arpita (10:24):
And then also they don't have their father,
Aarati (10:27):
Yeah,
Arpita (10:28):
So that's like an added level of making things tough.
Yeah.
Aarati (10:30):
Yeah, even more so.
And in the 1930s, being a singlemom, having to work is really,
really tough.
So as a result, Stephanie didn'thave a lot of toys.
So she would spend her timecopying her mother's sewing
patterns to create new clothingdesigns for her paper dolls.
And as she grew older, she evensecretly started using her
(10:54):
mother's sewing machine when shewas out of the house to make
actual fabric clothes.
And she really enjoyed this.
She really enjoyed designing andstarted to dream of going into
fashion and becoming a famousdesigner and everyone would wear
her clothes.
Arpita (11:09):
That's so fun.
I totally did this, by the way.
I, my, Yeah, I totally did this.
My mom really liked to sew, um,and she always talks about how
when my sister and I werelittle, she would really, she
like really loved making us likelittle clothes and making us
dresses and, um, like all thethings.
And so she had a sewing machineand I never really got quite
(11:32):
that good, but she definitelytaught me basic stitches and
like I know how to like hem andlike, you know do buttons I'm
just like small things but Iused to totally do this with my
dolls as like when I was verylittle would Try to take my
Barbie clothes and then try tolike make other clothes for them
and other dress for them Theywere really ugly, but I totally
did this.
I'm sure she was
Aarati (11:52):
it's Such a useful skill though, just in general, if you
know,
Arpita (11:57):
It definitely feels like a very worthwhile, very good
bang for your buck skill.
Aarati (12:02):
Um, but Stephanie's mother told her that probably
her dreams of becoming a fashiondesigner, it wasn't going to
happen for her because ofStephanie's personality.
She was very particular and sheneeded everything to be exactly
perfect.
And.
It wasn't really compatible withart and fashion, apparently.
(12:25):
Okay.
So one more thing you need toknow about Stephanie, besides
her being a perfectionist, wasthat she was gifted with an
amazing memory.
So she attended a really smallpublic grade school.
So two grades often ended upsharing a classroom.
And because of this, Stephaniecould hear what was being taught
to the older students in thegrade above her.
(12:45):
And so for her, being in aclassroom where two classes were
being taught at once just meantthat she learned things twice as
fast.
And she would annoy the olderkids, especially the boys,
because she would raise her handfor questions that their teacher
asked, even though she wastechnically in the grade below
them.
And she knew the answers.
(13:05):
So yeah, especially in math, thekids above her hated her.
So
Arpita (13:11):
That's pretty funny.
Like, I kind of love that shedid that, but it's honestly
really impressive that besidesof, beside her memory, she was
able to process two streams ofinformation at once.
Like that feels like the moreimpressive part to me is like,
you're able process two, youknow, inputs.
Aarati (13:27):
Yeah.
And they, they didn't go intothis, but I especially wonder if
it's like you're being taught inhistory in one class, but then
math in the other, and you'relike processing both of those at
the same time.
That's.
Arpita (13:38):
Yeah, that seems
Aarati (13:38):
Yeah, that seems crazy.
Um, so by the time she was inhigh school, Stephanie realized
that her mother was probablyright and she liked precision
and that level of perfectionismdidn't really work for her going
into the fashion world.
But that was okay because shereally enjoyed math and science.
She was really good at thosesubjects and they did give her
(14:00):
the precision she enjoyed.
So, Stephanie decided she wantedto go into science, and she
wanted to help people.
And so, naturally, she set hersights on going into medical
school.
Arpita (14:12):
Classic.
Aarati (14:12):
But again, money was tight, it's the Great
Depression, as I said, her momis raising two kids on her own,
and they just couldn't affordfor Stephanie to go to med
school.
So instead, she decides toenroll at the Carnegie Institute
of Technology, which is nowCarnegie Mellon University.
And she majored in chemistry.
(14:32):
And her plan was to get herbachelor's degree, work as a
chemist for a few years, andsave up enough money to
eventually go to med school.
Arpita (14:41):
Is this still in the time where a chemist is a
pharmacist?
Where does this overlap with
Aarati (14:47):
Oh, good question.
I don't think so.
I think we've moved on sincethen, since Wilbur Scoville.
Is that?
Yeah, we've moved
Arpita (14:55):
So this chemist is the way we would think about a
chemist now as someone who ispotentially working with a lot
of different compounds and
Aarati (15:02):
Yes.
Much more like what we havetoday, a traditional chemist.
Arpita (15:07):
Got it.
Aarati (15:08):
So Stephanie attended college from 1942 to 1946, which
meant that once she graduated,she was entering the workforce
right at the end of World WarII.
And this was an interesting timebecause since the war had just
ended, many men were coming backfrom the war and reentering the
workforce.
But they weren't all back yet,so there were still job
(15:29):
opportunities for women due tothe scarcity of men.
But- I'm kind of extrapolatinghere a little bit- I think that
if a man and a woman applied forthe same job at the same time,
the man would probably be givenpreference.
And so while Stephanie had jobopportunities that she could
apply for, she was incompetition with the men who
(15:49):
were coming home from war.
So that made it a little harder.
Yeah.
So she had two options at thispoint.
Um, one was to go into teaching.
A lot of women who had been inscience research were leaving to
follow careers in teaching whereI'm guessing there was less
competition from men.
Arpita (16:08):
Yeah, I also feel like that teaching skews female,
usually.
Especially
Aarati (16:13):
Yeah, exactly.
But Stephanie was, in her ownwords, stubborn, and she decided
that if she was going to work,she wanted to do research.
So she applied for a position asa chemist at the DuPont Company,
which is a chemical company inBuffalo, New York.
Arpita (16:30):
That still exists.
Aarati (16:32):
It does.
Um, she chose this companybecause she was excited by the
research that she saw going onthere.
She thought it had a lot ofpotential.
And also because it was one ofthe few companies that paid men
and women the same startingwage.
Arpita (16:46):
Whaaat?
Aarati (16:46):
Yes.
Equal opportunity.
Arpita (16:48):
What year is this?
1930 something?
Aarati (16:50):
1946 or 47, I believe.
Arpita (16:53):
1946.
Okay, wow.
That feels like a hugeadvancement.
That doesn't even happen now.
Aarati (16:59):
I know, right?
We're still talking about wagegap here, 100 years later.
Arpita (17:05):
Yeah, literally a hundred years later.
Um, wait, DuPont made Teflon?
Aarati (17:11):
That makes sense.
Arpita (17:12):
It makes sense.
And also, I think
Aarati (17:14):
In the context of this story, that will
Arpita (17:16):
in the context of the story.
Yeah, that's exactly what I wasgonna say.
Yeah,
Aarati (17:21):
Um, yeah.
I'm going to talk about some oftheir, um, Some of their
inventions, but I didn't get toTeflon specifically, they,
they're all over as you willsoon learn.
DuPont is just everywhereactually.
So it,
Arpita (17:36):
I honestly, truly believe
Aarati (17:38):
Yeah, it was kind of very surprising to me to hear
that or like to know thatbecause I'd never heard of
DuPont before I researched thestory and I'm like, they made
everything.
They've, they've, I think theymade Tupperware too.
Um, I think that, I believe so.
Arpita (17:53):
Oh, after World War II, a man named Earl Tupper received
a block of polymer from theDuPont company,
Aarati (18:02):
Ah, okay.
There you go.
Arpita (18:05):
And then he was, he was hoping plastics manufacturers
would invent peacetime uses forthis new material.
And then he tinkered with moldsfor months, and then he created
the Wonder Bowl, which then hepatented.
And then branded as Tupperware.
Aarati (18:24):
Yeah, but it says given to him by his supervisor at
DuPont.
So, I guess he did work at
Arpita (18:30):
Oh, he did work there.
Ah, got it.
Aarati (18:31):
Yeah.
So, yeah, they're, they'reeverywhere.
They're everywhere.
Arpita (18:36):
Yeah.
Aarati (18:38):
Okay, so.
Yeah,
Arpita (18:40):
Carry on.
Aarati (18:42):
I was actually thinking about doing him Earl Tupper for
this episode, but
Arpita (18:46):
Really?
Aarati (18:47):
well, when I was researching, I was like, okay,
which polymer person can I do?
And I was
Arpita (18:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's kind of funny that hisname is Tupper and that's why it
became called Tupperware.
I definitely did not know it wasnamed after a person.
Aarati (19:02):
Um, okay.
So back to Stephanie.
So, she interviewed at DuPont,and she was interviewed by Dr.
William Hale Charch, who was aresearch director whose claim to
fame was that he had invented away to make cellophane
waterproof.
Arpita (19:19):
Cellophane?
Like the crinkly plastic
Aarati (19:22):
Mm hmm.
Arpita (19:24):
Is it not waterproof?
Aarati (19:25):
Well, he invented the way to make it waterproof, so I
guess now it is.
Arpita (19:29):
But isn't it just like a piece of plastic?
Why would water seep through it?
Unless I'm I don't know whatcellophane is.
Cellophane I thought was likewhat candy wrappers are, you
know, like that crinkly
Aarati (19:37):
Yeah.
But I think that's waterproofnow.
So cellophane itself is made ofcellulose.
Arpita (19:45):
Oh.
Aarati (19:47):
Yes, it says cellophane is highly permeable to water
vapor but may be coated withnitrocellulose lacquer to
prevent this.
So maybe that's what it was?
Arpita (19:57):
And then if it's a lacquer that's probably why it
is sort of like that shinycrinkly
Aarati (20:01):
I would assume
Arpita (20:02):
Okay,
Aarati (20:03):
Yeah, yeah.
so.
that's his claim to fame.
Um, so he's interviewingStephanie.
When the interview was over, hetold her that they would let her
know decision within the nextcouple of weeks and here
Stephanie decides to go out on alimb.
She told Charch that sheactually had another offer from
another company, which I don'tthink was true, technically, and
(20:27):
asked if he could let her knowsooner, whether she got the job
or not, because she had to givethe other company an answer.
Arpita (20:34):
I've done this too.
Aarati (20:35):
Have you?
Oh my god.
That's amazing.
Has it
Arpita (20:40):
I mean, there's like no Yeah, it did work.
And there was really noverification either.
Like, how are they going to
Aarati (20:46):
How are they gonna, yeah.
Because even if they ask youlike, Oh, what are the company?
You can just be like, Oh, Iprefer not to say.
Like, or.
Arpita (20:53):
They can't ask you that.
So, I mean, you can always say,and it, it did work honestly,
that I did the
Aarati (20:58):
Amazing.
Arpita (21:00):
I feel like we a lot in
Aarati (21:01):
You do.
Because it worked for her too.
Charch was obviously veryimpressed with her and he
literally called his secretaryinto the office on the spot to
dictate an offer letter for her.
Yeah.
Arpita (21:15):
Okay, that didn't happen to me, but
Aarati (21:17):
Okay, not quite that, but still, yeah.
So years later, Stephanie saidthat she suspected that he liked
her assertiveness and that's whyshe got the job.
So there you go.
So Stephanie starts working atDuPont and I'm going to take a
minute here to tell you a littlebit about what I did research
about DuPont as a companybecause it is important to the
(21:39):
story.
So shortly before World War II,DuPont had introduced nylon,
which was the world's firstsynthetic fiber.
Nylon is unique for a couple ofreasons.
First, because it's a syntheticpolymer, meaning that nobody had
to grow it like cotton or gatherit from animals like wool or
silk.
(21:59):
Instead, you made it frompetroleum, which made it a lot
cheaper and faster and easier toproduce than natural fibers.
Arpita (22:08):
Yeah.
Aarati (22:09):
And secondly, nylon is thermoplastic, meaning that its
properties change when youchange the temperature.
So at very high temperatures, itmelts into a viscous fluid, and
at colder temperatures, itsolidifies.
So because it's thermoplastic,that means that you can mold
nylon fibers into a number ofdifferent shapes, depending on
what you're making.
(22:30):
Nylon is also lightweight,strong, flexible, absorbs
moisture, and dries out quickly,which made it really great in
hot and humid conditions.
And so pretty soon nylon wasbeing used to make everything
from ladies stockings to ropes,um, toothbrush bristles,
carpets, parachutes, dresses,backpacks, like it just had so
(22:54):
many uses.
Yeah, so many uses, and thatmade it a huge commercial
success for DuPont.
Like, they were making millions.
Arpita (23:03):
Isn't the reason that we don't use nylon a ton today is
because it's super flammable?
Aarati (23:08):
Um, I think we still use it quite a bit, like for
clothing especially, like nylonclothing, but I don't know if
they're,
Arpita (23:15):
Not, um, polyester?
Aarati (23:18):
That too.
That too.
Yeah.
Arpita (23:22):
I was gonna say, the reason I remember this is, I
don't know if you remember, butit's probably when we were in
elementary school...
Aarati (23:27):
Mm hmm.
Arpita (23:28):
But there was a huge thing about making kids pajamas,
uh, flame retardant.
And I guess for some reason, alot of kid's pajamas, just
because they were so cheap,especially pajamas, I think,
were made with nylon and I thinkthere were these issues with,
especially at night, if there's,you know, an emergency, your
clothes are not flame retardant,they're very flammable.
(23:51):
And so I think bedding andespecially pajamas, whereas
there's like this big thing, Iremember seeing all these labels
on clothes to be like, this isnot flammable, like not
flammable fabric.
And I wonder if that's when itwas like somewhere around there
was maybe when things becameless nylon.
Aarati (24:11):
Yeah, because I don't think I,
Arpita (24:13):
verify that,
Aarati (24:14):
I don't think I read about, like, I definitely don't
think it's flame resistant atall, but I read more that it
would melt at high temperaturesversus catch on fire, which
would still be a problem for,yeah, still bad for making
clothing and, uh, kids pajamasand stuff in a fire.
You definitely don't wantclothes that melt.
Arpita (24:33):
Yeah.
Anyway, side note,
Aarati (24:36):
At the time, nylon was being used for everything.
It's this huge commercialsuccess.
And so this kicked off a racebetween DuPont and other
companies like Monsanto tocreate more synthetic polymer
fibers.
And therefore, Stephanie is putinto a laboratory where the team
was trying to develop new typesof synthetic fibers with
different properties, likedifferent strengths,
(24:58):
flexibility, flame resistance,things like that.
So all these different, um,characteristics.
And she really loved it.
She found it very challengingand fulfilling.
And over the years, she was partof research teams that created a
number of different syntheticfibers, including polyester,
which you mentioned, andspandex.
Arpita (25:20):
These are huge.
These are...
Aarati (25:21):
so many millions.
Arpita (25:23):
So like crucial to all the different types of fabrics
and materials we use today.
And I can't believe all of thesecame out of one company.
Aarati (25:32):
It's crazy.
Arpita (25:33):
I don't think I realized how pervasive it was.
Aarati (25:35):
And that Stephanie had a hand in all of them.
It doesn't sound like it waslike, you know, ten different
research teams all working on
Arpita (25:41):
Right,
Aarati (25:42):
It's like this small group that's working on
synthetic fibers that Stephaniewas part of, so it's pretty
remarkable.
Arpita (25:50):
Yeah.
Aarati (25:51):
About her time at DuPont, she said, quote,"I was
very fortunate that I workedunder men who were very much
interested in making discoveriesand inventions.
They were very much interestedin what they were doing, and
they left me alone.
And I was able to experiment onmy own and I found this very
stimulating.
It appealed to the creativeperson in me." End quote.
Arpita (26:11):
Love that.
I like that part where she says,they left me alone.
That's key.
That's so key.
Aarati (26:17):
I was like,
Arpita (26:18):
I relate to that so much.
Yeah.
Aarati (26:20):
Same.
I'm just like, why do you want ameeting?
Just leave me alone.
We don't need to talk.
I'm doing my job.
Leave me alone.
Arpita (26:27):
That's so relatable.
Aarati (26:29):
So she loved her job at DuPont.
And in fact, she loved it somuch that even though it was
supposed to be just a temporaryway for her to earn money so she
could go to med school, sheended up staying at DuPont for
her entire career.
She stayed there for 40 years.
Arpita (26:43):
Wow.
I feel like that's not verycommon.
Like that's her first job andthen she just stays there her
whole career.
Aarati (26:48):
Not anymore.
I feel like that's what thelike, you know, the older
generations are like, staythere, work your way up the
company.
And it's like, that just doesn'thappen anymore.
Arpita (26:58):
Right.
Aarati (26:59):
Um, in 1950, her lab moved to Wilmington, Delaware.
And in 1959, Stephanie won anaward from the American Chemical
Society for a paper she coauthored with her supervisor,
Paul W.
Morgan, called the Nylon RopeTrick.
This paper demonstrates aprocess called step growth
polymerization, which is prettymuch what it sounds like.
(27:23):
Um, so like, as I mentioned,polymers are long chains of
repeating units called monomers,and in step growth,
polymerization to monomer unitscome together to form a dimer.
A third one gets added on toform a trimer.
A fourth one gets on to be atetramer and so on until you
have this really long polymerchain.
(27:45):
Stephanie demonstrated thatanyone can make a nylon polymer
using this kind of step growthpolymerization reaction.
What you do is you take a beakerof a chemical called
hexamethylene diamine, and thenyou gently pour another chemical
called sebacoyl chloride incyclohexane on top of it.
(28:05):
So now you have two layers ofliquid in the beaker, and at the
interface where the two liquidsmeet, the hexamethylene diamine,
and the sebacoyl chloride reactto form nylon monomers.
And then a bunch of thosemonomers will link up one by one
to form a nylon polymer.
Arpita (28:27):
Okay, and this is happening in the beaker.
Aarati (28:30):
In the beaker.
Yeah.
And so then the reason it'scalled the nylon rope trick is
because when you see it in reallife, it looks like you're just
reaching in and magicallypulling out this long unending
strand of nylon out of thisbeaker full of clear liquid.
Arpita (28:46):
That's so cool.
Aarati (28:48):
You can just keep on pulling it out and pulling it
out and it keeps on, becauseit's step growth polymerization,
the monomers just keep ongetting formed and added to the
end of the string, so it'sreally cool.
Arpita (29:00):
Big is this string?
Like is it super thin?
Aarati (29:05):
Yeah, it's really thin, but it's big enough that you
can, like, hold onto it and,like, pull it.
Yeah.
Arpita (29:11):
so It's actually like quite substantial.
Aarati (29:13):
Can, like, wind it around your finger.
Arpita (29:15):
That's crazy.
So then it's the reaction ishappening where the two liquids
meet, assuming they're differentenough densities that they stay
separated.
But then, as you pull the threadout, it's gonna continue
reacting, I assume, until bothliquids have run out.
Aarati (29:30):
That...
in theory, yeah.
Arpita (29:31):
So cool.
That's super cool.
Aarati (29:33):
Fun side note was a lot of people call this the Spider
Man web shooter experimentbecause one could imagine that
Peter Parker has these twochemicals hidden in his suit and
when he needs to, he just likemixes them and magically creates
this instant nylon rope to swingon.
So I thought that was prettycool.
Arpita (29:51):
Okay, high key, that is so cool.
Like, even if you obviouslyaren't like swinging on it,
like, what if you had a SpiderMan suit that like, this
reaction was happening inside,and you could just like, produce
the thread?
That is so sick.
Like, what an amazing partytrick.
Aarati (30:03):
And Peter Parker was smart, like, canonically, he
was, you know, a genius, so thisis highly possible that he, he
was, like, really good atchemistry and he figured this
out.
Arpita (30:14):
Wait, wasn't he, wasn't he like, in a radioactive, like,
dumpster or something?
Isn't that how he became hisbutt Spider
Aarati (30:20):
He, He was bitten by a radioactive spider.
Arpita (30:23):
Bitten by a radioactive spider.
Okay, not the dumpster.
Aarati (30:26):
I think he, like, went to a laboratory or something
and, or, like, this radioactivespider escaped from a laboratory
where they were testingradioactive spiders and he got
bit by it.
Yeah.
Arpita (30:37):
Got bit by the spider.
You're right.
You're right.
Aarati (30:40):
Um, okay.
So, tangent, but back to the
Arpita (30:44):
No, I love, I love those tangents.
Aarati (30:47):
So, in the 1960s, economists started warning
people of an imminent nationwidegasoline shortage.
Yeah.
So the higher ups at DuPont werelike, Hey, if we can make a
polymer fiber that islightweight, hard as steel and
holds up against extremeconditions, maybe we could
replace the steel wires that runthrough car tires, which would
(31:09):
make the wheels lighter and thecar would have better fuel
efficiency.
So, less petroleum.
Arpita (31:15):
I didn't realize they used to be steel wires.
Aarati (31:17):
Yeah, I didn't either.
Arpita (31:19):
That feels so cumbersome.
Aarati (31:21):
It does feel, it does feel really heavy and slow.
Arpita (31:26):
Totally
Aarati (31:27):
So Stephanie was one of the researchers who took up this
challenge and at the time shewas working with these very long
extended polymers called aramidsor aromatic polymers because
they were made up of these longchains of benzene rings.
And a benzene ring, for anyonewho needs a reminder, is made up
(31:47):
of six carbons in the shape of ahexagon called an aromatic ring.
So her polymer was made up of abunch of these rings in a row.
And she and her supervisor, PaulW.
Morgan, calculated that becausethe benzene rings were so big
and bulky, if they were able toform fibers out of them, the
(32:07):
fibers would be very stiff andstrong.
But, um, there was a problembecause to actually make a fiber
out of any polymer, you firsthave to get the polymer into a
liquid state and then put itinto a machine called a
spinneret, which, like its namesounds, spins around and
extrudes, it extrudes thepolymer out of tiny holes to
(32:32):
form fiber strands.
Arpita (32:33):
I liked that they called it a spinneret and not just like
a spinner.
Like a
Aarati (32:36):
a spinneret, yes.
It's dainty.
Arpita (32:41):
So cute.
Aarati (32:42):
So the question was, how do you get the polymer into
liquid form?
And one way we already talkedabout with nylon is heat it up
and melt it.
Um, but with the aramides thatStephanie was hoping to use, the
long repeating chain of benzenerings also meant that these
polymers would only start tomelt at really high
temperatures, like 400 degreesCelsius, which is 750 degrees
(33:08):
Fahrenheit.
So they figured it wouldprobably be easier and more cost
effective to try to dissolve thepolymer into a solution.
So that was Stephanie's firstjob, to find a solvent that
would actually dissolve thesetypes of polymers.
But when she succeeded ingetting these aramid polymers to
dissolve, the liquid lookedreally weird.
(33:30):
It was cloudy and fluid and kindof had the consistency of
buttermilk.
And when she, yeah, kind of likelumpy and weird.
Yeah.
And when she stirred it, shenoted that it had this shimmery
opalescent quality.
Arpita (33:49):
I feel like nothing in a chem lab or a wet lab should be
chunky liquid.
You have done....
Like something has gone awry.
If something looks chunky,that's disgusting.
Aarati (33:59):
That's exactly what people thought.
It was like, this is verydifferent from the other polymer
solutions that the scientists atDuPont were familiar with.
Most of the other polymersolutions were clear and
viscous.
And usually, like you said, if aresearcher saw something like
what Stephanie was seeing, theywould thrown it away thinking it
(34:19):
was contaminated or somethinghad gone wrong.
But Stephanie had this intuitionabout it.
She's like playing with it andshe's like, I think this will
work.
And so she took it to the guywho's in charge of running the
spinneret and was like, Hey, canwe put this in the machine and
try spinning it into fibers?
And he was like, no, absolutelynot.
(34:40):
Like, Yeah, yeah, like, no,
Arpita (34:44):
Get that shit away from me.
Like,
Aarati (34:47):
He's like, it's got some weird, like,
Arpita (34:50):
Pearlescent milk away from me.
Yeah.
Aarati (34:54):
He's like, it's going to clog up the holes in the
machine.
It's going to cause a big mess.
I'm not doing it.
Um, yeah.
But Stephanie, remember isstubborn.
She was very persistent and shekept asking him and asking him
and asking him for days untilfinally he was just like, okay,
fine, geez, you know, let's justdo it.
So they put it in the spinneretand to both of their surprise,
(35:16):
this weird polymer solution hadabsolutely no problem creating
fibers.
It didn't clog up the machine oranything.
It was beautiful.
And these fibers were also verydifferent from anything that had
been created before.
They were extremely hard andstiff.
Stephanie said, quote,"The firstsign that we really had that
something unusual occurred as Istood by the spinning equipment
(35:39):
and tried to break some of thenewly spun fibers.
Unlike ordinary nylon, thisfiber was very difficult to
break by hand.
At that moment, I knew we had amost unusual fiber." End quote.
Arpita (35:53):
So interesting.
I'm imagining them coming outsuper stiff, like dry spaghetti.
Aarati (35:56):
Yeah, I don't know.
I haven't actually seen a videoof this.
I've seen a video of nyloncoming out of a spinning
machine, which is pretty cool,but I haven't seen like aramid
polymers.
Arpita (36:07):
Just based on the description of it being
difficult, like it being stiffand then it being difficult to
tear.
I'm imagining Uncooked spaghetticoming out of it.
Aarati (36:16):
So it turned out that the weird solution that
Stephanie had created is iscalled a liquid crystalline
solution, and it has the abilityto flow like a liquid so it
didn't clog up the spinneret,but also all the molecules are
oriented in the same direction,just like in a crystal.
(36:36):
So when you look at a crystal'satomic structure, it is very
organized.
All the atoms are forming thisvery neat arrangement, and
that's what makes it verystrong.
And it was the same with thisfiber.
Once it was extruded, all themolecules in the fiber line up
in this very organized way, andthat's what made the fiber very
strong and durable.
Obviously, this was a prettyincredible breakthrough.
(37:00):
Stephanie did a bunch of testingto confirm that what she had
made was real and repeatablebefore taking it to the higher
ups at DuPont.
And they were immediately like,wow, this stuff has potential.
And they assigned a whole groupto work on developing different
products out of it.
But this is what I foundinteresting.
Stephanie herself had no ideawhat these fibers could be used
(37:21):
for.
She wasn't really part of thedevelopment process at all.
She was just experimenting andtrying to make fibers with
different properties.
So she didn't know, like, whatthey would be turned into.
Arpita (37:34):
What they'd be used for.
That's so interesting.
Like she was so far upstreamthat she was just interested in
having certain qualities orcertain combinations of
qualities, but didn't reallythink about...
That's, that's so interestingbecause when I think of drug
development, it's almost theopposite.
It's like you have a specificuse and then you're trying to
think of how to generate orengineer a molecule or whatever
(37:57):
your mechanism is to then havethat effect.
So it's interesting that she wasjust creating things and then
being like, well, I don't knowwhat it's going to be used for.
Aarati (38:05):
Yeah.
It's like, we have a diseasethat we're trying to create a
cure for, and you always knowthat.
You always know what the endgame is,
Arpita (38:11):
You have the end point.
Aarati (38:12):
But yeah, she was just like, oh, I'm just, you know,
Throwing things around,experimenting with something.
Hey, look, I found this coolthing.
I don't know.
You could use it for somethingmaybe, you know.
Um, that's not my
Arpita (38:24):
It's like a very different approach.
Totally.
Aarati (38:27):
So her discovery of aramid polymers gave rise to a
bunch of very unique types offibers.
In 1967, DuPont released anaramid fiber called Nomex, which
is flame resistant.
Um, it can withstandtemperatures up to 370 degrees
Celsius or 700 degreesFahrenheit.
(38:48):
Yeah, so really hot.
Kids pajamas made of Nomex.
That's what we need.
Yeah,
Arpita (38:56):
Definitely what kids need.
Aarati (38:57):
That's what we need.
Um, but it is a common materialused in firefighting equipment,
aircraft, circuit boards, andtransformer cores to prevent
fires.
Another type of fiber, marketedunder the name Kapton, forms a
film that is stable across awide range of temperatures from
-270 to over 400 degreesCelsius.
(39:19):
Yeah,
Arpita (39:19):
That's a huge range.
Aarati (39:23):
Yeah.
It also works in high vacuumenvironments.
And so because of this, it'sused in flexible printed
circuits, space blankets, andsatellites.
Arpita (39:33):
I don't think I really thought about all the different
materials that exist in thisworld.
I'm not going to lie until justnow,
Aarati (39:39):
Space blankets! Did you know we need space blankets?
In 1971, they releasedStephanie's most famous aramid
polymer, Kevlar.
And, again, like we said, whenStephanie created Kevlar, she
wasn't thinking, like, Oh, Iwant to create a fabric that can
withstand bullets.
She was just focused on pushingthe boundaries of what types of
(40:02):
fibers she could make, and wasinventing new fabrics.
And when she tested the newKevlar fibers, Stephanie found
that they were five timesstronger than steel and fire
resistant while still being verylightweight.
Arpita (40:16):
Wow, what?
That's such a crazy intersectionof qualities too.
And it's like, you think ofsteel as basically being
impermeable.
I mean, obviously that's nottrue, but you think about it in
your head.
And then also just so dense andheavy.
Wow.
Amazing.
Aarati (40:30):
Um, so she created this material, this fiber, and then
it was actually anotherresearcher at DuPont named
Joseph Rivers, who had beenlooking for fibers that he could
use to make bulletproof vests.
And he saw the potential forKevlar to be used this way.
When he heard about this newfiber that Stephanie had
created, he asked if she couldpossibly spare just a tiny bit
(40:52):
for him to test.
And as we know, the rest ishistory.
So yeah,
Arpita (40:58):
It also is kind of interesting that these two
departments are working, sorry,this is back to my original
point.
Like they're just working soapart from each other.
So there's this like wholesection of DuPont that's like,
how do we solve XYZ problems?
And then there's this othergroup of people who are just
like, We made this today.
Aarati (41:15):
yeah, there's like the experimental team and then
there's like the developmentteam and it's like the
experimental team is just like,We created a fireproof thing.
Okay.
Now it's waterproof.
Okay.
We create another one that'slike super strong and I don't
know what to do with it, buthere you go.
And then the development team islike supposed to find uses for
all this stuff.
Arpita (41:36):
Yeah.
I'm like, I'm imagining theexperimental team, almost
spinning like a wheel of fortunestyle wheel being like, what's
it going to be today?
Like today.
Yeah.
You're just like, what's itgoing to be today?
It's going to be like flameretardant today.
It's going to be super strong.
Today's going to be super light.
And then.
Yeah, it's just so interestingbecause I'm really comparing it
to drug development, which isreally the opposite.
So, it's very interesting thatthis is the way that, you know,
(42:00):
pipeline goes.
Aarati (42:01):
Yeah.
Especially that, because I thinkpart of it in biology, like we
don't have.
The money or the time to justkind of like, you know, be like,
okay, we, we just created thisthing that we have no use for
right now, you know, like,
Arpita (42:15):
Yeah, that would not get funded.
So, I don't
Aarati (42:18):
Exactly.
Arpita (42:20):
Yeah, I wonder if it is just less cost prohibitive.
So, if you're doing biologicalresearch that, you know,
involves animals or You know,like all these, like all these
pieces that are maybe moreexpensive.
I don't know if this is true,but maybe it's less cost
prohibitive to do some of thesechemical experiments.
(42:41):
Like maybe it doesn't matterbecause all these raw
ingredients are less expensive.
I
Aarati (42:45):
Yeah.
I could totally see that.
I'm, I'm not sure, but I candefinitely see that.
It's like, oh, you ran out ofthis?
Just make more.
It's
Arpita (42:53):
Right.
Exactly.
Aarati (42:54):
Yeah.
And petroleum was super cheapback then,
Arpita (42:57):
That's True.
That's a good point.
Aarati (42:59):
That's a big reason they were doing all of this.
So, by 1975, Kevlar vests werebeing made available to police
departments.
DuPont partnered with theInternational Association of
Chiefs of Police, or IACP, Topromote the use of body armor by
creating the IACP/DuPont KevlarSurvivors Club.
(43:23):
Since it started in 1987, theyhave honored over 3, 100
officers whose lives were savedor escaped a serious life
altering injury because theywere wearing a Kevlar vest.
Arpita (43:35):
Wow.
Aarati (43:36):
Yeah, and that's just law enforcement.
It does not take into accountthe thousands of military
personnel it's probably saved...
Arpita (43:43):
Mm hmm.
Aarati (43:44):
...over the years as well.
Arpita (43:45):
Mm hmm.
Aarati (43:46):
There are now over 200 end use applications for Kevlar,
including being used to linemilitary helmets, in paraglider
suspension ropes, to sheathefiber optic cables, as a
structural component in cars,cell phone cases, and to
reinforce concrete.
Arpita (44:05):
Wait, cell phone cases?
That feels like the out one,thing
Aarati (44:09):
Like the Otter box.
Arpita (44:11):
Yeah, seriously.
Aarati (44:12):
I needed one of those last episode.
Arpita (44:15):
You did.
I'm, your list, like, made somuch sense.
I'm like, oh yeah, superintense.
Like, yeah, that for sure needsto be reinforced.
It's like, your cell phone.
Aarati (44:24):
Yeah, your cell phone.
Yeah.
But I mean, given how much wedepend on it and everything, you
know, I actually had a dreamlast night that my cell phone
shattered again.
I was like, freaking out.
Arpita (44:36):
It's haunting your nightmares.
Aarati (44:37):
It really is.
Arpita (44:40):
You're never going to go ride a roller coaster ever
Aarati (44:43):
I
Arpita (44:43):
again.
Just like, for real.
Aarati (44:44):
Or maybe I will if I have a Kevlar cell phone
Arpita (44:47):
A Kevlar case.
That is so funny.
Aarati (44:51):
Yeah, but it's these Kevlar fibers used everywhere.
And Stephanie said, quote,"Iguess that's just the life of an
inventor.
What people do with your ideastakes you totally by surprise."
Arpita (45:04):
Does she get, um, I guess not royalties, but I
assume that the intellectualproperty belongs to DuPont.
So she just doesn't get anythingout of this.
Aarati (45:13):
Well, she actually signed over all of her royalties
to DuPont.
So she was given the patents andI'm not sure why she did this,
but like, she was not in it forthe money at all.
She just gave them the royaltiesand they generated billions.
Billions of dollars from herwork and it's not just Kevlar
also remember she was like onspandex too and nomex and
(45:36):
polyester and like all thesedifferent things so she just
didn't seem interested
Arpita (45:42):
get don't That's...
Aarati (45:43):
I don't either.
Arpita (45:44):
Well, largely because they're a corporation, you know,
like I could understand like,Oh, I don't want the royalties.
They're going to go somewhereelse, but why would you give it
to a corporation?
That feels crazy.
And how did patents work?
If you were awarded the patentand it was in your name, then
how do you, is it anytimesomeone uses your patent to
create something?
(46:04):
Do you get some small percentageof that?
Is that how patents work?
Aarati (46:08):
I think so I'm not a hundred percent sure because I
would assume that even if shedid have the patent in her name
DuPont would have gottensomething because was creating
it with their lab equipment andyou know in their facilities So
that's what I would have assumedbut I...
so I would have guessed thatthey would have gotten something
out of it anyway, even if shedidn't sign over all the
(46:28):
royalties, but she just did.
And I guess part of it isbecause she didn't marry or have
any children.
Her, like, work was her life.
just very focused on herresearch.
And so, and she loved her job,like I said, so just gave it all
(46:48):
back to them because she lovedit so much, which I can't
comprehend, really.
Arpita (46:53):
I don't relate to that one bit, but good her.
I guess maybe also like if shedidn't have like a clear person
to leave it to, then there wasmaybe less of an incentive to
keep the money in some way.
Well, okay.
Aarati (47:06):
Yeah.
So she retired from DuPont in1986 and spent the rest of her
life tutoring high school kidsin chemistry and encouraging
young women to becomescientists.
In 1995, she was the fourthwoman to be inducted into the
National Inventors Hall of Fame.
fame.
DuPont also awarded her theLavoisier medal, hope I'm saying
(47:29):
that right, for outstandingtechnical achievement as a
quote, persistentexperimentalist and role model
whose discovery of liquidcrystalline polyamides led to
Kevlar aramid fibers.
Arpita (47:44):
Wow.
Aarati (47:45):
End quote.
Yeah.
Arpita (47:47):
Do we have someone else who was also in the
International Inventors Hall ofFame?
Was it Hedy Lamar?
Aarati (47:52):
Oh, it might have been.
Arpita (47:54):
Yeah, I think it might have been.
I thought we had someone elsewho was in the Hall of Fame.
Anyway.
Aarati (47:59):
Yeah.
When would Hedy Lamarr have beenin there?
Because she was only, like,Stephanie Kwolek was only the
fourth woman, so, Hedy Lamarr,if she was in there, would have
had to be number one, two, orthree, I would guess.
Arpita (48:14):
Yes, she was, uh, inducted in 2014.
Aarati (48:18):
Oh, she was inducted much later.
Okay.
Arpita (48:20):
She was inducted posthumously, I think.
Aarati (48:23):
So Stephanie Kwolek was inducted when she was still
alive.
Um, in 1996 Stephanie wasawarded the National Medal of
Technology for her work onsynthetic fibers.
And this is a medal that wasawarded by the U.
S.
president.
So there's this kind of.
hilarious video clip where she'sgetting the medal from President
Bill Clinton.
(48:43):
Um, and he's like this ginormous6'2 man and she's this tiny 4'11
woman.
And so like the discrepancybetween her heights is just
amazing.
Arpita (48:55):
That's so funny.
She's teeny tiny.
Aarati (48:58):
She's tiny.
I'll put a picture of it on thewebsite so you can see because
it's, really funny.
Arpita (49:02):
That's so
Aarati (49:03):
funny.
In 1997, she received the Perkinmedal from the American Chemical
Society, and in 2003, she wasinducted into the National
Women's Hall of Fame.
And there are a bunch of otherhonors and awards, but literally
we'd be here all day.
So I'm gonna leave it at that.
Arpita (49:23):
So many accolades.
Aarati (49:24):
Yes.
She died on June 18th, 2014, atthe age of 90 over her lifetime,
she was granted 17 patents.
Um.
But as I, as we said before, shesigned over all the royalties,
so never saw money from it.
(49:44):
So I wanted to end on a quotefrom a biography that was
written about her by Edwin BritWyckoff.
And he wrote that"YoungStephanie wanted to save lives
as a doctor.
Instead, she grew up and learnedto save lives as a chemist." And
I thought that was, really nice.
Arpita (50:03):
That is really nice.
I think it's interesting too,because I think a lot of young
people and like kids think aboutwanting to do good in the world.
And it does feel like being adoctor is like the very clear
path to do that.
But there are, I feel like evenjust as this podcast, we've just
seen so many different ways to,you know, change the way we
think about the world in waysthat are not just straight
(50:23):
medicine, you know?
Aarati (50:25):
Yeah.
It's, it's really incredible tothink about how the world is so
different now.
Like, I was just thinking whenyou said, um, you hadn't thought
about how many differentmaterials...
Arpita (50:36):
Yeah.
Aarati (50:37):
...existed until just now.
And I was like, so that meansthat, like, before they invented
Nomex, these firefighters werejust rushing into fires with,
like, normal clothes on.
Isn't that crazy?
Arpita (50:49):
And I don't think about, like, all the smaller things,
like, you were talking about,like, what they were used in
switchboards, or used to encasefires, and it totally makes
sense, right?
You have these, like, hugeservers, and, like, all these
machinery, and you, like, eventhings that you don't interact
with or touch on a daily basis,like, all those components need
to withstand certain stressors.
Aarati (51:07):
Yeah.
And
Arpita (51:08):
did not think about
Aarati (51:09):
one tiny little spark and it sets the whole thing
aflame, like our whole worldcomes down, like the internet
breaks because...
Arpita (51:16):
Yeah,
Aarati (51:16):
You know?
Arpita (51:17):
Exactly.
Aarati (51:18):
So yeah.
So it's, it's pretty incredible.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Arpita (51:21):
That's so interesting.
Aarati (51:23):
That's the story of Stephanie Kwolek.
I hope that my brother is happyand will get off my case a
little bit.
Arpita (51:30):
This was good.
I feel like this was veryapproachable.
I totally, yeah, it's not tootechnical.
I got really nervous when youstarted and you said, you're
going to talk about polymers, Iwas going to be like, Oh God,
really got to turn my brain onfor this on my day off.
Aarati (51:42):
No.
Arpita (51:43):
It was great.
Aarati (51:44):
Well, that's why I was resisting him so much too.
I was like, polymers! Talk aboutpolymers.
But
Arpita (51:51):
There's like, you and I are like biologists.
Every time we have to dosomething, that's not biology.
We're just like, oh shit.
Like, what are we going to do?
Aarati (51:56):
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Arpita (52:00):
like math at one time.
We're both just like, huh,
Aarati (52:03):
God.
I'm, I'm still like traumatizedfrom that episode.
Arpita (52:08):
Yeah.
I don't know if we're going togo run it back for another
mathematician, but
Aarati (52:12):
Yeah.
Well, I don't know.
It's up to our audience.
If you want us to do anothermathematician, write in and tell
us and we will have to do it.
So,
Arpita (52:19):
We'll try.
Aarati (52:20):
Up to you guys.
Arpita (52:23):
Great story.
I loved it.
Aarati (52:25):
Thank you.
Arpita (52:26):
Thanks for listening.
If you have a suggestion for astory we should cover or
thoughts you want to share aboutan episode, reach out to us at
smartteapodcast.
com.
You can follow us on Instagramand Twitter@smartteapodcast and
listen to us on Spotify, Applepodcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Leave us a rating or comment,really helps us grow.
New episodes are released everyother Wednesday.
(52:48):
See you next time!
Hi everyone.
And welcome back to the SmartTea podcast, where we talk about
the lives of scientists andinnovators who shape the world.
How are you, Aarati?
Aarati (00:19):
I'm doing pretty well, Arpita.
How are you?
Arpita (00:22):
I'm doing great.
Um, happy 4th of July.
Aarati (00:25):
Yes.
Arpita (00:27):
It is uncharacteristically warm and
summery feeling for the BayArea.
I have lived in San Franciscofor a long time and I very
strongly associate the 4th ofJuly with being foggy because we
tend to have very foggy summersin the city and then we get a
lot of sunshine in September andOctober, but this year both
(00:48):
Aarati and I are wearing tanktops and it's very warm in the
bay, uh, which is pretty funnybecause this doesn't normally
happen.
Um, and I've had a very lovelyholiday.
I went camping, uh, just northof the city last night, which
was actually really perfectbecause we finished work and
then got to leave in theafternoon.
(01:10):
And then spend the night.
And then this morning we droveto Stinson Beach.
We got there just before nine.
Um, like we woke up in themorning, like camp, like
whenever, like we
Aarati (01:20):
You, you're early birds.
I know.
Yeah.
Arpita (01:23):
We were early birds and we were also right there, like
the campsite was like rightthere.
And so then we just went overexpecting there to not be that
many people because it wasbefore nine.
The parking lot, completelyfull.
We got one of the last spots.
It was 8 45 AM.
Aarati (01:38):
Oh
Arpita (01:38):
People had already set up like all these tents, all
their grills, their whole setup.
And then by like 11:30, 11:45, Iwas like, I'm ready to go.
Like, this is, this is what Ineeded.
I got what I needed.
I wanted to sit in the sun for alittle while.
And I'm ready to go home.
Aarati (01:54):
Do they have fireworks over there?
Like, what's the big draw?
Arpita (01:58):
What's the end game?
Yeah.
Aarati (02:01):
Where I live, um, there's like a lake where they,
or I don't know, lake might betoo strong of a word, like a
lagoon type area, where they,you know, shoot fireworks over
and on the perimeter of that, itgets like people start putting
up, you know, blankets andchairs and everything again,
starting at like 8 o'clock.
And then they just stay therethe whole day until 9 PM when
(02:25):
they finally shoot off thefireworks.
So I'm just wondering, like, isthere a...
Is there something like that atStinson Beach?
Arpita (02:31):
I have no idea.
I don't normally go to StinsonBeach, but we just happened to
be camping nearby.
So then because it was so nice,we were just like, Oh, let's go
hang out at the beach for alittle while.
But I don't know anyway, but onour way back, so we're driving
back down south, down highwayone towards the city.
Aarati (02:48):
Mm hmm.
Arpita (02:49):
Miles, like miles and miles and miles of cars just
waiting in line to drive northto the Stinson Beach entrance.
And I was like, this parking lotis full.
Like, I don't know what all ofyou guys are doing.
Also, for people who are notfrom the Bay Area, Stinson Beach
is not very big.
Aarati (03:07):
Mm
Arpita (03:07):
It's a pretty small strip of beach.
And, most of the time in thispart of Northern California,
it's pretty cold and it's, youknow, not really the type of
beach weather where you wouldthink about like laying on the
sand.
So normally it's like totallyfine.
It's usually people just kind ofwalking around, but there's not
the real estate for the hundredsand hundreds of people who are
(03:29):
trying
Aarati (03:29):
why I'm wondering what are they all doing over
Arpita (03:32):
No idea.
But I guess my point is like,it's not a cool enough beach to
warrant that sort of crowd.
Aarati (03:39):
Yeah.
No, that's like, I'm like, whydon't they go to Ocean Beach or
like Funston Or like, yeah,we're on the coast.
There's so
Arpita (03:47):
There's other
Aarati (03:48):
so many.
Yeah.
There's so many other, like,what is it about Stinson Beach
that everyone's like, this is.
Oh my gosh, so weird.
Arpita (03:55):
No.
Logan and I are debating in thecar being like, should we roll
down the window and tell peoplethat this party lot is full?
Like that they're all waitingfor nothing.
Aarati (04:05):
Oh my god, just like be a good Samaritan
Arpita (04:08):
I was just like, I would have bailed so long ago.
Like, I don't, I don't evencare.
I would have done like an eightpoint turn and then just flipped
it around on the highway.
Like, I'm just like, there's nochance I'd be waiting in a line
for something like that.
Aarati (04:19):
At this point I'm like, even if there's like a
spectacular fireworks display,it's not worth it.
It's, you know, watch it on TV.
I don't know.
This is my whole, yeah, this ismy whole family's mentality
though.
I firmly believe this is why Ido nothing in life except sit at
home because I'm just like, Ican't be bothered, you know,
going in lines like this.
(04:41):
Yeah.
Arpita (04:41):
Yeah.
Anyway, so that's what'shappening in the Bay right now.
So if you're at home right now,you're not missing out.
And I felt very smug about myplans because I was driving
against the traffic and I waslike,
Aarati (04:52):
Good for you.
Arpita (04:53):
I'm better than all of you.
Aarati (04:54):
Yeah, exactly.
Good for you.
Yeah, totally.
Arpita (04:58):
Yes, um, I'm very sorry if you waited in traffic.
Um, I felt pretty good aboutmyself.
Um, anyway, that's my update onBay Area traffic and
Aarati (05:08):
Weather and traffic brought to you by Arpita.
Thank you.
Arpita (05:12):
Seriously, it's shit show out there.
You're not missing out.
Aarati (05:14):
It's amazing.
No, but you're right though.
I'm, I'm thoroughly enjoying theweather.
My entire family is dying andI'm like, I'm warm for the first
time in five years.
This is amazing.
I love it.
Arpita (05:26):
Feels so nice.
It's like perfectly warm.
It's like not too windy.
It definitely feels very summerand we don't normally get this
during the true summer months inthe calendar.
So it's lovely.
Um, but yeah, those are myupdates.
I think we're ready for a littlestory.
Aarati (05:41):
Okay, so today's story is going to be an interesting
one because my brother for awhile now has been harping on me
to do a polymer scientist andI've been resisting and
resisting.
He works on polymers, which iswhy he wants me to do one.
And anyone who needs a quickreminder, polymers are molecules
(06:03):
that are made of long, repeatingunits.
They're long chains.
And there are natural polymerslike rubber, wool, cellulose and
even your DNA, because that'slike long chains of nucleotides.
So that's a polymer.
But then there's also syntheticpolymers that we've developed to
create all different types ofmaterials like Teflon,
polyester, latex, and styrofoam.
(06:26):
And so because of that, there'sall these different fields of
studies around polymers.
Especially from an environmentalstandpoint, because most
synthetic polymers are madeusing petroleum.
So how do we get away from thatis a big question.
And then another one is, how dowe break down some of these
polymer materials, like plasticsthat stay in our environment
(06:49):
forever and ever.
And so that's what my brotherworks on.
And so that's just why he'sbeen, you know, after me about
like, you should do polymers.
They're so interesting.
Okay.
So like, that's a quickorientation on today's topic,
um, but as for the person thatwe're going to be talking about,
we're going to be talking abouta scientist who has been
nicknamed The Queen of Polymers,Stephanie Kwolek, and you may
(07:14):
have heard her name beforebecause she invented Kevlar,
which is the fabric that youstill use today to make
bulletproof vests.
Arpita (07:22):
Yeah, yeah.
And I love that we have a queen.
Aarati (07:25):
Yes, a queen.
So, Stephanie Louise Kwolek.
She was born on July 21st, 1923in New Kensington, Pennsylvania.
I definitely said that wrong.
New Kensington, Pennsylvania,which is a suburb of Pittsburgh.
She and her parents, John andAni-, I'm going to say this
(07:47):
wrong too, Aniela, are I havepracticed that so many times, I
still can't get it right.
Aniela.
John and Aniela, or"Nellie",were Polish immigrants, and they
had two kids, Stephanie and herlittle brother, Stanley.
Her father loved to read booksand newspapers and Stephanie
always remembered him readingsomething when he came home from
(08:09):
work.
And he was an amateurnaturalist.
So he and Stephanie would go outand explore the woods around
their home.
They would spend hours observingthe forest, collecting plants
and looking at all the birds andfrogs and insects around them.
And Stephanie even kept ascrapbook of all the things that
she collected from the woods,like pressed leaves, and
(08:31):
flowers, and seeds, and evenlittle bits of snake skin that
she would label with herfather's help.
Arpita (08:39):
Whoa.
Okay, kind of gross about thesnake skin.
What is the definition of anaturalist?
Is it like if you're an amateurnaturalist?
Aarati (08:46):
Yeah, so.
Arpita (08:47):
An interest in nature or is there more to it?
Aarati (08:50):
He doesn't professionally study natural
things like he doesn'tprofessionally study nature, but
he just enjoyed it very much toobserve it and look at it.
I think he actually worked at afoundry
Arpita (09:02):
I'm now thinking that I feel like most of the people
that I know who live in the BayArea are probably amateur
naturalists.
Aarati (09:08):
Probably we have a pretty big outdoor culture.
So yeah, absolutely.
Arpita (09:14):
It's like every time I go on a hike and point out this
like new flower that I find orsomething and I'm just like, Oh,
this is blah, blah.
Aarati (09:20):
So maybe just the, just the fact that he was in
Pennsylvania made him anaturalist.
If he was in California, hewould have just been another
normal guy.
Arpita (09:28):
Have just been a Californian.
Yeah,
Aarati (09:29):
Yeah, exactly.
Arpita (09:31):
We do live up to our stereotypes.
Aarati (09:33):
We do.
Um, but sadly when Stephanie wasjust 10 years old, her father
died and I'm not sure whathappened.
Like I couldn't find out why.
But he was very young.
He was in his early forties.
Um, yeah, but by then Stephaniehad already inherited his love
for science and the naturalworld.
(09:54):
After that, her mother, who I'mgoing to call Nellie, who was a
seamstress, had to care forStephanie and Stanley by
herself.
And later in her life, Stephaniesaid that her mother probably
was the one person who had themost influence on her career.
She was, quote, an intelligentwoman of great determination and
strong will, yet she had a greatsense of humor, end quote.
(10:16):
And that is good to hear,because by now it was the 1930s,
and The Great Depression washitting the family hard.
So
Arpita (10:24):
And then also they don't have their father,
Aarati (10:27):
Yeah,
Arpita (10:28):
So that's like an added level of making things tough.
Yeah.
Aarati (10:30):
Yeah, even more so.
And in the 1930s, being a singlemom, having to work is really,
really tough.
So as a result, Stephanie didn'thave a lot of toys.
So she would spend her timecopying her mother's sewing
patterns to create new clothingdesigns for her paper dolls.
And as she grew older, she evensecretly started using her
(10:54):
mother's sewing machine when shewas out of the house to make
actual fabric clothes.
And she really enjoyed this.
She really enjoyed designing andstarted to dream of going into
fashion and becoming a famousdesigner and everyone would wear
her clothes.
Arpita (11:09):
That's so fun.
I totally did this, by the way.
I, my, Yeah, I totally did this.
My mom really liked to sew, um,and she always talks about how
when my sister and I werelittle, she would really, she
like really loved making us likelittle clothes and making us
dresses and, um, like all thethings.
And so she had a sewing machineand I never really got quite
(11:32):
that good, but she definitelytaught me basic stitches and
like I know how to like hem andlike, you know do buttons I'm
just like small things but Iused to totally do this with my
dolls as like when I was verylittle would Try to take my
Barbie clothes and then try tolike make other clothes for them
and other dress for them Theywere really ugly, but I totally
did this.
I'm sure she was
Aarati (11:52):
it's Such a useful skill though, just in general, if you
know,
Arpita (11:57):
It definitely feels like a very worthwhile, very good
bang for your buck skill.
Aarati (12:02):
Um, but Stephanie's mother told her that probably
her dreams of becoming a fashiondesigner, it wasn't going to
happen for her because ofStephanie's personality.
She was very particular and sheneeded everything to be exactly
perfect.
And.
It wasn't really compatible withart and fashion, apparently.
(12:25):
Okay.
So one more thing you need toknow about Stephanie, besides
her being a perfectionist, wasthat she was gifted with an
amazing memory.
So she attended a really smallpublic grade school.
So two grades often ended upsharing a classroom.
And because of this, Stephaniecould hear what was being taught
to the older students in thegrade above her.
(12:45):
And so for her, being in aclassroom where two classes were
being taught at once just meantthat she learned things twice as
fast.
And she would annoy the olderkids, especially the boys,
because she would raise her handfor questions that their teacher
asked, even though she wastechnically in the grade below
them.
And she knew the answers.
(13:05):
So yeah, especially in math, thekids above her hated her.
So
Arpita (13:11):
That's pretty funny.
Like, I kind of love that shedid that, but it's honestly
really impressive that besidesof, beside her memory, she was
able to process two streams ofinformation at once.
Like that feels like the moreimpressive part to me is like,
you're able process two, youknow, inputs.
Aarati (13:27):
Yeah.
And they, they didn't go intothis, but I especially wonder if
it's like you're being taught inhistory in one class, but then
math in the other, and you'relike processing both of those at
the same time.
That's.
Arpita (13:38):
Yeah, that seems
Aarati (13:38):
Yeah, that seems crazy.
Um, so by the time she was inhigh school, Stephanie realized
that her mother was probablyright and she liked precision
and that level of perfectionismdidn't really work for her going
into the fashion world.
But that was okay because shereally enjoyed math and science.
She was really good at thosesubjects and they did give her
(14:00):
the precision she enjoyed.
So, Stephanie decided she wantedto go into science, and she
wanted to help people.
And so, naturally, she set hersights on going into medical
school.
Arpita (14:12):
Classic.
Aarati (14:12):
But again, money was tight, it's the Great
Depression, as I said, her momis raising two kids on her own,
and they just couldn't affordfor Stephanie to go to med
school.
So instead, she decides toenroll at the Carnegie Institute
of Technology, which is nowCarnegie Mellon University.
And she majored in chemistry.
(14:32):
And her plan was to get herbachelor's degree, work as a
chemist for a few years, andsave up enough money to
eventually go to med school.
Arpita (14:41):
Is this still in the time where a chemist is a
pharmacist?
Where does this overlap with
Aarati (14:47):
Oh, good question.
I don't think so.
I think we've moved on sincethen, since Wilbur Scoville.
Is that?
Yeah, we've moved
Arpita (14:55):
So this chemist is the way we would think about a
chemist now as someone who ispotentially working with a lot
of different compounds and
Aarati (15:02):
Yes.
Much more like what we havetoday, a traditional chemist.
Arpita (15:07):
Got it.
Aarati (15:08):
So Stephanie attended college from 1942 to 1946, which
meant that once she graduated,she was entering the workforce
right at the end of World WarII.
And this was an interesting timebecause since the war had just
ended, many men were coming backfrom the war and reentering the
workforce.
But they weren't all back yet,so there were still job
(15:29):
opportunities for women due tothe scarcity of men.
But- I'm kind of extrapolatinghere a little bit- I think that
if a man and a woman applied forthe same job at the same time,
the man would probably be givenpreference.
And so while Stephanie had jobopportunities that she could
apply for, she was incompetition with the men who
(15:49):
were coming home from war.
So that made it a little harder.
Yeah.
So she had two options at thispoint.
Um, one was to go into teaching.
A lot of women who had been inscience research were leaving to
follow careers in teaching whereI'm guessing there was less
competition from men.
Arpita (16:08):
Yeah, I also feel like that teaching skews female,
usually.
Especially
Aarati (16:13):
Yeah, exactly.
But Stephanie was, in her ownwords, stubborn, and she decided
that if she was going to work,she wanted to do research.
So she applied for a position asa chemist at the DuPont Company,
which is a chemical company inBuffalo, New York.
Arpita (16:30):
That still exists.
Aarati (16:32):
It does.
Um, she chose this companybecause she was excited by the
research that she saw going onthere.
She thought it had a lot ofpotential.
And also because it was one ofthe few companies that paid men
and women the same startingwage.
Arpita (16:46):
Whaaat?
Aarati (16:46):
Yes.
Equal opportunity.
Arpita (16:48):
What year is this?
1930 something?
Aarati (16:50):
1946 or 47, I believe.
Arpita (16:53):
1946.
Okay, wow.
That feels like a hugeadvancement.
That doesn't even happen now.
Aarati (16:59):
I know, right?
We're still talking about wagegap here, 100 years later.
Arpita (17:05):
Yeah, literally a hundred years later.
Um, wait, DuPont made Teflon?
Aarati (17:11):
That makes sense.
Arpita (17:12):
It makes sense.
And also, I think
Aarati (17:14):
In the context of this story, that will
Arpita (17:16):
in the context of the story.
Yeah, that's exactly what I wasgonna say.
Yeah,
Aarati (17:21):
Um, yeah.
I'm going to talk about some oftheir, um, Some of their
inventions, but I didn't get toTeflon specifically, they,
they're all over as you willsoon learn.
DuPont is just everywhereactually.
So it,
Arpita (17:36):
I honestly, truly believe
Aarati (17:38):
Yeah, it was kind of very surprising to me to hear
that or like to know thatbecause I'd never heard of
DuPont before I researched thestory and I'm like, they made
everything.
They've, they've, I think theymade Tupperware too.
Um, I think that, I believe so.
Arpita (17:53):
Oh, after World War II, a man named Earl Tupper received
a block of polymer from theDuPont company,
Aarati (18:02):
Ah, okay.
There you go.
Arpita (18:05):
And then he was, he was hoping plastics manufacturers
would invent peacetime uses forthis new material.
And then he tinkered with moldsfor months, and then he created
the Wonder Bowl, which then hepatented.
And then branded as Tupperware.
Aarati (18:24):
Yeah, but it says given to him by his supervisor at
DuPont.
So, I guess he did work at
Arpita (18:30):
Oh, he did work there.
Ah, got it.
Aarati (18:31):
Yeah.
So, yeah, they're, they'reeverywhere.
They're everywhere.
Arpita (18:36):
Yeah.
Aarati (18:38):
Okay, so.
Yeah,
Arpita (18:40):
Carry on.
Aarati (18:42):
I was actually thinking about doing him Earl Tupper for
this episode, but
Arpita (18:46):
Really?
Aarati (18:47):
well, when I was researching, I was like, okay,
which polymer person can I do?
And I was
Arpita (18:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's kind of funny that hisname is Tupper and that's why it
became called Tupperware.
I definitely did not know it wasnamed after a person.
Aarati (19:02):
Um, okay.
So back to Stephanie.
So, she interviewed at DuPont,and she was interviewed by Dr.
William Hale Charch, who was aresearch director whose claim to
fame was that he had invented away to make cellophane
waterproof.
Arpita (19:19):
Cellophane?
Like the crinkly plastic
Aarati (19:22):
Mm hmm.
Arpita (19:24):
Is it not waterproof?
Aarati (19:25):
Well, he invented the way to make it waterproof, so I
guess now it is.
Arpita (19:29):
But isn't it just like a piece of plastic?
Why would water seep through it?
Unless I'm I don't know whatcellophane is.
Cellophane I thought was likewhat candy wrappers are, you
know, like that crinkly
Aarati (19:37):
Yeah.
But I think that's waterproofnow.
So cellophane itself is made ofcellulose.
Arpita (19:45):
Oh.
Aarati (19:47):
Yes, it says cellophane is highly permeable to water
vapor but may be coated withnitrocellulose lacquer to
prevent this.
So maybe that's what it was?
Arpita (19:57):
And then if it's a lacquer that's probably why it
is sort of like that shinycrinkly
Aarati (20:01):
I would assume
Arpita (20:02):
Okay,
Aarati (20:03):
Yeah, yeah.
so.
that's his claim to fame.
Um, so he's interviewingStephanie.
When the interview was over, hetold her that they would let her
know decision within the nextcouple of weeks and here
Stephanie decides to go out on alimb.
She told Charch that sheactually had another offer from
another company, which I don'tthink was true, technically, and
(20:27):
asked if he could let her knowsooner, whether she got the job
or not, because she had to givethe other company an answer.
Arpita (20:34):
I've done this too.
Aarati (20:35):
Have you?
Oh my god.
That's amazing.
Has it
Arpita (20:40):
I mean, there's like no Yeah, it did work.
And there was really noverification either.
Like, how are they going to
Aarati (20:46):
How are they gonna, yeah.
Because even if they ask youlike, Oh, what are the company?
You can just be like, Oh, Iprefer not to say.
Like, or.
Arpita (20:53):
They can't ask you that.
So, I mean, you can always say,and it, it did work honestly,
that I did the
Aarati (20:58):
Amazing.
Arpita (21:00):
I feel like we a lot in
Aarati (21:01):
You do.
Because it worked for her too.
Charch was obviously veryimpressed with her and he
literally called his secretaryinto the office on the spot to
dictate an offer letter for her.
Yeah.
Arpita (21:15):
Okay, that didn't happen to me, but
Aarati (21:17):
Okay, not quite that, but still, yeah.
So years later, Stephanie saidthat she suspected that he liked
her assertiveness and that's whyshe got the job.
So there you go.
So Stephanie starts working atDuPont and I'm going to take a
minute here to tell you a littlebit about what I did research
about DuPont as a companybecause it is important to the
(21:39):
story.
So shortly before World War II,DuPont had introduced nylon,
which was the world's firstsynthetic fiber.
Nylon is unique for a couple ofreasons.
First, because it's a syntheticpolymer, meaning that nobody had
to grow it like cotton or gatherit from animals like wool or
silk.
(21:59):
Instead, you made it frompetroleum, which made it a lot
cheaper and faster and easier toproduce than natural fibers.
Arpita (22:08):
Yeah.
Aarati (22:09):
And secondly, nylon is thermoplastic, meaning that its
properties change when youchange the temperature.
So at very high temperatures, itmelts into a viscous fluid, and
at colder temperatures, itsolidifies.
So because it's thermoplastic,that means that you can mold
nylon fibers into a number ofdifferent shapes, depending on
what you're making.
(22:30):
Nylon is also lightweight,strong, flexible, absorbs
moisture, and dries out quickly,which made it really great in
hot and humid conditions.
And so pretty soon nylon wasbeing used to make everything
from ladies stockings to ropes,um, toothbrush bristles,
carpets, parachutes, dresses,backpacks, like it just had so
(22:54):
many uses.
Yeah, so many uses, and thatmade it a huge commercial
success for DuPont.
Like, they were making millions.
Arpita (23:03):
Isn't the reason that we don't use nylon a ton today is
because it's super flammable?
Aarati (23:08):
Um, I think we still use it quite a bit, like for
clothing especially, like nylonclothing, but I don't know if
they're,
Arpita (23:15):
Not, um, polyester?
Aarati (23:18):
That too.
That too.
Yeah.
Arpita (23:22):
I was gonna say, the reason I remember this is, I
don't know if you remember, butit's probably when we were in
elementary school...
Aarati (23:27):
Mm hmm.
Arpita (23:28):
But there was a huge thing about making kids pajamas,
uh, flame retardant.
And I guess for some reason, alot of kid's pajamas, just
because they were so cheap,especially pajamas, I think,
were made with nylon and I thinkthere were these issues with,
especially at night, if there's,you know, an emergency, your
clothes are not flame retardant,they're very flammable.
(23:51):
And so I think bedding andespecially pajamas, whereas
there's like this big thing, Iremember seeing all these labels
on clothes to be like, this isnot flammable, like not
flammable fabric.
And I wonder if that's when itwas like somewhere around there
was maybe when things becameless nylon.
Aarati (24:11):
Yeah, because I don't think I,
Arpita (24:13):
verify that,
Aarati (24:14):
I don't think I read about, like, I definitely don't
think it's flame resistant atall, but I read more that it
would melt at high temperaturesversus catch on fire, which
would still be a problem for,yeah, still bad for making
clothing and, uh, kids pajamasand stuff in a fire.
You definitely don't wantclothes that melt.
Arpita (24:33):
Yeah.
Anyway, side note,
Aarati (24:36):
At the time, nylon was being used for everything.
It's this huge commercialsuccess.
And so this kicked off a racebetween DuPont and other
companies like Monsanto tocreate more synthetic polymer
fibers.
And therefore, Stephanie is putinto a laboratory where the team
was trying to develop new typesof synthetic fibers with
different properties, likedifferent strengths,
(24:58):
flexibility, flame resistance,things like that.
So all these different, um,characteristics.
And she really loved it.
She found it very challengingand fulfilling.
And over the years, she was partof research teams that created a
number of different syntheticfibers, including polyester,
which you mentioned, andspandex.
Arpita (25:20):
These are huge.
These are...
Aarati (25:21):
so many millions.
Arpita (25:23):
So like crucial to all the different types of fabrics
and materials we use today.
And I can't believe all of thesecame out of one company.
Aarati (25:32):
It's crazy.
Arpita (25:33):
I don't think I realized how pervasive it was.
Aarati (25:35):
And that Stephanie had a hand in all of them.
It doesn't sound like it waslike, you know, ten different
research teams all working on
Arpita (25:41):
Right,
Aarati (25:42):
It's like this small group that's working on
synthetic fibers that Stephaniewas part of, so it's pretty
remarkable.
Arpita (25:50):
Yeah.
Aarati (25:51):
About her time at DuPont, she said, quote,"I was
very fortunate that I workedunder men who were very much
interested in making discoveriesand inventions.
They were very much interestedin what they were doing, and
they left me alone.
And I was able to experiment onmy own and I found this very
stimulating.
It appealed to the creativeperson in me." End quote.
Arpita (26:11):
Love that.
I like that part where she says,they left me alone.
That's key.
That's so key.
Aarati (26:17):
I was like,
Arpita (26:18):
I relate to that so much.
Yeah.
Aarati (26:20):
Same.
I'm just like, why do you want ameeting?
Just leave me alone.
We don't need to talk.
I'm doing my job.
Leave me alone.
Arpita (26:27):
That's so relatable.
Aarati (26:29):
So she loved her job at DuPont.
And in fact, she loved it somuch that even though it was
supposed to be just a temporaryway for her to earn money so she
could go to med school, sheended up staying at DuPont for
her entire career.
She stayed there for 40 years.
Arpita (26:43):
Wow.
I feel like that's not verycommon.
Like that's her first job andthen she just stays there her
whole career.
Aarati (26:48):
Not anymore.
I feel like that's what thelike, you know, the older
generations are like, staythere, work your way up the
company.
And it's like, that just doesn'thappen anymore.
Arpita (26:58):
Right.
Aarati (26:59):
Um, in 1950, her lab moved to Wilmington, Delaware.
And in 1959, Stephanie won anaward from the American Chemical
Society for a paper she coauthored with her supervisor,
Paul W.
Morgan, called the Nylon RopeTrick.
This paper demonstrates aprocess called step growth
polymerization, which is prettymuch what it sounds like.
(27:23):
Um, so like, as I mentioned,polymers are long chains of
repeating units called monomers,and in step growth,
polymerization to monomer unitscome together to form a dimer.
A third one gets added on toform a trimer.
A fourth one gets on to be atetramer and so on until you
have this really long polymerchain.
(27:45):
Stephanie demonstrated thatanyone can make a nylon polymer
using this kind of step growthpolymerization reaction.
What you do is you take a beakerof a chemical called
hexamethylene diamine, and thenyou gently pour another chemical
called sebacoyl chloride incyclohexane on top of it.
(28:05):
So now you have two layers ofliquid in the beaker, and at the
interface where the two liquidsmeet, the hexamethylene diamine,
and the sebacoyl chloride reactto form nylon monomers.
And then a bunch of thosemonomers will link up one by one
to form a nylon polymer.
Arpita (28:27):
Okay, and this is happening in the beaker.
Aarati (28:30):
In the beaker.
Yeah.
And so then the reason it'scalled the nylon rope trick is
because when you see it in reallife, it looks like you're just
reaching in and magicallypulling out this long unending
strand of nylon out of thisbeaker full of clear liquid.
Arpita (28:46):
That's so cool.
Aarati (28:48):
You can just keep on pulling it out and pulling it
out and it keeps on, becauseit's step growth polymerization,
the monomers just keep ongetting formed and added to the
end of the string, so it'sreally cool.
Arpita (29:00):
Big is this string?
Like is it super thin?
Aarati (29:05):
Yeah, it's really thin, but it's big enough that you
can, like, hold onto it and,like, pull it.
Yeah.
Arpita (29:11):
so It's actually like quite substantial.
Aarati (29:13):
Can, like, wind it around your finger.
Arpita (29:15):
That's crazy.
So then it's the reaction ishappening where the two liquids
meet, assuming they're differentenough densities that they stay
separated.
But then, as you pull the threadout, it's gonna continue
reacting, I assume, until bothliquids have run out.
Aarati (29:30):
That...
in theory, yeah.
Arpita (29:31):
So cool.
That's super cool.
Aarati (29:33):
Fun side note was a lot of people call this the Spider
Man web shooter experimentbecause one could imagine that
Peter Parker has these twochemicals hidden in his suit and
when he needs to, he just likemixes them and magically creates
this instant nylon rope to swingon.
So I thought that was prettycool.
Arpita (29:51):
Okay, high key, that is so cool.
Like, even if you obviouslyaren't like swinging on it,
like, what if you had a SpiderMan suit that like, this
reaction was happening inside,and you could just like, produce
the thread?
That is so sick.
Like, what an amazing partytrick.
Aarati (30:03):
And Peter Parker was smart, like, canonically, he
was, you know, a genius, so thisis highly possible that he, he
was, like, really good atchemistry and he figured this
out.
Arpita (30:14):
Wait, wasn't he, wasn't he like, in a radioactive, like,
dumpster or something?
Isn't that how he became hisbutt Spider
Aarati (30:20):
He, He was bitten by a radioactive spider.
Arpita (30:23):
Bitten by a radioactive spider.
Okay, not the dumpster.
Aarati (30:26):
I think he, like, went to a laboratory or something
and, or, like, this radioactivespider escaped from a laboratory
where they were testingradioactive spiders and he got
bit by it.
Yeah.
Arpita (30:37):
Got bit by the spider.
You're right.
You're right.
Aarati (30:40):
Um, okay.
So, tangent, but back to the
Arpita (30:44):
No, I love, I love those tangents.
Aarati (30:47):
So, in the 1960s, economists started warning
people of an imminent nationwidegasoline shortage.
Yeah.
So the higher ups at DuPont werelike, Hey, if we can make a
polymer fiber that islightweight, hard as steel and
holds up against extremeconditions, maybe we could
replace the steel wires that runthrough car tires, which would
(31:09):
make the wheels lighter and thecar would have better fuel
efficiency.
So, less petroleum.
Arpita (31:15):
I didn't realize they used to be steel wires.
Aarati (31:17):
Yeah, I didn't either.
Arpita (31:19):
That feels so cumbersome.
Aarati (31:21):
It does feel, it does feel really heavy and slow.
Arpita (31:26):
Totally
Aarati (31:27):
So Stephanie was one of the researchers who took up this
challenge and at the time shewas working with these very long
extended polymers called aramidsor aromatic polymers because
they were made up of these longchains of benzene rings.
And a benzene ring, for anyonewho needs a reminder, is made up
(31:47):
of six carbons in the shape of ahexagon called an aromatic ring.
So her polymer was made up of abunch of these rings in a row.
And she and her supervisor, PaulW.
Morgan, calculated that becausethe benzene rings were so big
and bulky, if they were able toform fibers out of them, the
(32:07):
fibers would be very stiff andstrong.
But, um, there was a problembecause to actually make a fiber
out of any polymer, you firsthave to get the polymer into a
liquid state and then put itinto a machine called a
spinneret, which, like its namesounds, spins around and
extrudes, it extrudes thepolymer out of tiny holes to
(32:32):
form fiber strands.
Arpita (32:33):
I liked that they called it a spinneret and not just like
a spinner.
Like a
Aarati (32:36):
a spinneret, yes.
It's dainty.
Arpita (32:41):
So cute.
Aarati (32:42):
So the question was, how do you get the polymer into
liquid form?
And one way we already talkedabout with nylon is heat it up
and melt it.
Um, but with the aramides thatStephanie was hoping to use, the
long repeating chain of benzenerings also meant that these
polymers would only start tomelt at really high
temperatures, like 400 degreesCelsius, which is 750 degrees
(33:08):
Fahrenheit.
So they figured it wouldprobably be easier and more cost
effective to try to dissolve thepolymer into a solution.
So that was Stephanie's firstjob, to find a solvent that
would actually dissolve thesetypes of polymers.
But when she succeeded ingetting these aramid polymers to
dissolve, the liquid lookedreally weird.
(33:30):
It was cloudy and fluid and kindof had the consistency of
buttermilk.
And when she, yeah, kind of likelumpy and weird.
Yeah.
And when she stirred it, shenoted that it had this shimmery
opalescent quality.
Arpita (33:49):
I feel like nothing in a chem lab or a wet lab should be
chunky liquid.
You have done....
Like something has gone awry.
If something looks chunky,that's disgusting.
Aarati (33:59):
That's exactly what people thought.
It was like, this is verydifferent from the other polymer
solutions that the scientists atDuPont were familiar with.
Most of the other polymersolutions were clear and
viscous.
And usually, like you said, if aresearcher saw something like
what Stephanie was seeing, theywould thrown it away thinking it
(34:19):
was contaminated or somethinghad gone wrong.
But Stephanie had this intuitionabout it.
She's like playing with it andshe's like, I think this will
work.
And so she took it to the guywho's in charge of running the
spinneret and was like, Hey, canwe put this in the machine and
try spinning it into fibers?
And he was like, no, absolutelynot.
(34:40):
Like, Yeah, yeah, like, no,
Arpita (34:44):
Get that shit away from me.
Like,
Aarati (34:47):
He's like, it's got some weird, like,
Arpita (34:50):
Pearlescent milk away from me.
Yeah.
Aarati (34:54):
He's like, it's going to clog up the holes in the
machine.
It's going to cause a big mess.
I'm not doing it.
Um, yeah.
But Stephanie, remember isstubborn.
She was very persistent and shekept asking him and asking him
and asking him for days untilfinally he was just like, okay,
fine, geez, you know, let's justdo it.
So they put it in the spinneretand to both of their surprise,
(35:16):
this weird polymer solution hadabsolutely no problem creating
fibers.
It didn't clog up the machine oranything.
It was beautiful.
And these fibers were also verydifferent from anything that had
been created before.
They were extremely hard andstiff.
Stephanie said, quote,"The firstsign that we really had that
something unusual occurred as Istood by the spinning equipment
(35:39):
and tried to break some of thenewly spun fibers.
Unlike ordinary nylon, thisfiber was very difficult to
break by hand.
At that moment, I knew we had amost unusual fiber." End quote.
Arpita (35:53):
So interesting.
I'm imagining them coming outsuper stiff, like dry spaghetti.
Aarati (35:56):
Yeah, I don't know.
I haven't actually seen a videoof this.
I've seen a video of nyloncoming out of a spinning
machine, which is pretty cool,but I haven't seen like aramid
polymers.
Arpita (36:07):
Just based on the description of it being
difficult, like it being stiffand then it being difficult to
tear.
I'm imagining Uncooked spaghetticoming out of it.
Aarati (36:16):
So it turned out that the weird solution that
Stephanie had created is iscalled a liquid crystalline
solution, and it has the abilityto flow like a liquid so it
didn't clog up the spinneret,but also all the molecules are
oriented in the same direction,just like in a crystal.
(36:36):
So when you look at a crystal'satomic structure, it is very
organized.
All the atoms are forming thisvery neat arrangement, and
that's what makes it verystrong.
And it was the same with thisfiber.
Once it was extruded, all themolecules in the fiber line up
in this very organized way, andthat's what made the fiber very
strong and durable.
Obviously, this was a prettyincredible breakthrough.
(37:00):
Stephanie did a bunch of testingto confirm that what she had
made was real and repeatablebefore taking it to the higher
ups at DuPont.
And they were immediately like,wow, this stuff has potential.
And they assigned a whole groupto work on developing different
products out of it.
But this is what I foundinteresting.
Stephanie herself had no ideawhat these fibers could be used
(37:21):
for.
She wasn't really part of thedevelopment process at all.
She was just experimenting andtrying to make fibers with
different properties.
So she didn't know, like, whatthey would be turned into.
Arpita (37:34):
What they'd be used for.
That's so interesting.
Like she was so far upstreamthat she was just interested in
having certain qualities orcertain combinations of
qualities, but didn't reallythink about...
That's, that's so interestingbecause when I think of drug
development, it's almost theopposite.
It's like you have a specificuse and then you're trying to
think of how to generate orengineer a molecule or whatever
(37:57):
your mechanism is to then havethat effect.
So it's interesting that she wasjust creating things and then
being like, well, I don't knowwhat it's going to be used for.
Aarati (38:05):
Yeah.
It's like, we have a diseasethat we're trying to create a
cure for, and you always knowthat.
You always know what the endgame is,
Arpita (38:11):
You have the end point.
Aarati (38:12):
But yeah, she was just like, oh, I'm just, you know,
Throwing things around,experimenting with something.
Hey, look, I found this coolthing.
I don't know.
You could use it for somethingmaybe, you know.
Um, that's not my
Arpita (38:24):
It's like a very different approach.
Totally.
Aarati (38:27):
So her discovery of aramid polymers gave rise to a
bunch of very unique types offibers.
In 1967, DuPont released anaramid fiber called Nomex, which
is flame resistant.
Um, it can withstandtemperatures up to 370 degrees
Celsius or 700 degreesFahrenheit.
(38:48):
Yeah, so really hot.
Kids pajamas made of Nomex.
That's what we need.
Yeah,
Arpita (38:56):
Definitely what kids need.
Aarati (38:57):
That's what we need.
Um, but it is a common materialused in firefighting equipment,
aircraft, circuit boards, andtransformer cores to prevent
fires.
Another type of fiber, marketedunder the name Kapton, forms a
film that is stable across awide range of temperatures from
-270 to over 400 degreesCelsius.
(39:19):
Yeah,
Arpita (39:19):
That's a huge range.
Aarati (39:23):
Yeah.
It also works in high vacuumenvironments.
And so because of this, it'sused in flexible printed
circuits, space blankets, andsatellites.
Arpita (39:33):
I don't think I really thought about all the different
materials that exist in thisworld.
I'm not going to lie until justnow,
Aarati (39:39):
Space blankets! Did you know we need space blankets?
In 1971, they releasedStephanie's most famous aramid
polymer, Kevlar.
And, again, like we said, whenStephanie created Kevlar, she
wasn't thinking, like, Oh, Iwant to create a fabric that can
withstand bullets.
She was just focused on pushingthe boundaries of what types of
(40:02):
fibers she could make, and wasinventing new fabrics.
And when she tested the newKevlar fibers, Stephanie found
that they were five timesstronger than steel and fire
resistant while still being verylightweight.
Arpita (40:16):
Wow, what?
That's such a crazy intersectionof qualities too.
And it's like, you think ofsteel as basically being
impermeable.
I mean, obviously that's nottrue, but you think about it in
your head.
And then also just so dense andheavy.
Wow.
Amazing.
Aarati (40:30):
Um, so she created this material, this fiber, and then
it was actually anotherresearcher at DuPont named
Joseph Rivers, who had beenlooking for fibers that he could
use to make bulletproof vests.
And he saw the potential forKevlar to be used this way.
When he heard about this newfiber that Stephanie had
created, he asked if she couldpossibly spare just a tiny bit
(40:52):
for him to test.
And as we know, the rest ishistory.
So yeah,
Arpita (40:58):
It also is kind of interesting that these two
departments are working, sorry,this is back to my original
point.
Like they're just working soapart from each other.
So there's this like wholesection of DuPont that's like,
how do we solve XYZ problems?
And then there's this othergroup of people who are just
like, We made this today.
Aarati (41:15):
yeah, there's like the experimental team and then
there's like the developmentteam and it's like the
experimental team is just like,We created a fireproof thing.
Okay.
Now it's waterproof.
Okay.
We create another one that'slike super strong and I don't
know what to do with it, buthere you go.
And then the development team islike supposed to find uses for
all this stuff.
Arpita (41:36):
Yeah.
I'm like, I'm imagining theexperimental team, almost
spinning like a wheel of fortunestyle wheel being like, what's
it going to be today?
Like today.
Yeah.
You're just like, what's itgoing to be today?
It's going to be like flameretardant today.
It's going to be super strong.
Today's going to be super light.
And then.
Yeah, it's just so interestingbecause I'm really comparing it
to drug development, which isreally the opposite.
So, it's very interesting thatthis is the way that, you know,
(42:00):
pipeline goes.
Aarati (42:01):
Yeah.
Especially that, because I thinkpart of it in biology, like we
don't have.
The money or the time to justkind of like, you know, be like,
okay, we, we just created thisthing that we have no use for
right now, you know, like,
Arpita (42:15):
Yeah, that would not get funded.
So, I don't
Aarati (42:18):
Exactly.
Arpita (42:20):
Yeah, I wonder if it is just less cost prohibitive.
So, if you're doing biologicalresearch that, you know,
involves animals or You know,like all these, like all these
pieces that are maybe moreexpensive.
I don't know if this is true,but maybe it's less cost
prohibitive to do some of thesechemical experiments.
(42:41):
Like maybe it doesn't matterbecause all these raw
ingredients are less expensive.
I
Aarati (42:45):
Yeah.
I could totally see that.
I'm, I'm not sure, but I candefinitely see that.
It's like, oh, you ran out ofthis?
Just make more.
It's
Arpita (42:53):
Right.
Exactly.
Aarati (42:54):
Yeah.
And petroleum was super cheapback then,
Arpita (42:57):
That's True.
That's a good point.
Aarati (42:59):
That's a big reason they were doing all of this.
So, by 1975, Kevlar vests werebeing made available to police
departments.
DuPont partnered with theInternational Association of
Chiefs of Police, or IACP, Topromote the use of body armor by
creating the IACP/DuPont KevlarSurvivors Club.
(43:23):
Since it started in 1987, theyhave honored over 3, 100
officers whose lives were savedor escaped a serious life
altering injury because theywere wearing a Kevlar vest.
Arpita (43:35):
Wow.
Aarati (43:36):
Yeah, and that's just law enforcement.
It does not take into accountthe thousands of military
personnel it's probably saved...
Arpita (43:43):
Mm hmm.
Aarati (43:44):
...over the years as well.
Arpita (43:45):
Mm hmm.
Aarati (43:46):
There are now over 200 end use applications for Kevlar,
including being used to linemilitary helmets, in paraglider
suspension ropes, to sheathefiber optic cables, as a
structural component in cars,cell phone cases, and to
reinforce concrete.
Arpita (44:05):
Wait, cell phone cases?
That feels like the out one,thing
Aarati (44:09):
Like the Otter box.
Arpita (44:11):
Yeah, seriously.
Aarati (44:12):
I needed one of those last episode.
Arpita (44:15):
You did.
I'm, your list, like, made somuch sense.
I'm like, oh yeah, superintense.
Like, yeah, that for sure needsto be reinforced.
It's like, your cell phone.
Aarati (44:24):
Yeah, your cell phone.
Yeah.
But I mean, given how much wedepend on it and everything, you
know, I actually had a dreamlast night that my cell phone
shattered again.
I was like, freaking out.
Arpita (44:36):
It's haunting your nightmares.
Aarati (44:37):
It really is.
Arpita (44:40):
You're never going to go ride a roller coaster ever
Aarati (44:43):
I
Arpita (44:43):
again.
Just like, for real.
Aarati (44:44):
Or maybe I will if I have a Kevlar cell phone
Arpita (44:47):
A Kevlar case.
That is so funny.
Aarati (44:51):
Yeah, but it's these Kevlar fibers used everywhere.
And Stephanie said, quote,"Iguess that's just the life of an
inventor.
What people do with your ideastakes you totally by surprise."
Arpita (45:04):
Does she get, um, I guess not royalties, but I
assume that the intellectualproperty belongs to DuPont.
So she just doesn't get anythingout of this.
Aarati (45:13):
Well, she actually signed over all of her royalties
to DuPont.
So she was given the patents andI'm not sure why she did this,
but like, she was not in it forthe money at all.
She just gave them the royaltiesand they generated billions.
Billions of dollars from herwork and it's not just Kevlar
also remember she was like onspandex too and nomex and
(45:36):
polyester and like all thesedifferent things so she just
didn't seem interested
Arpita (45:42):
get don't That's...
Aarati (45:43):
I don't either.
Arpita (45:44):
Well, largely because they're a corporation, you know,
like I could understand like,Oh, I don't want the royalties.
They're going to go somewhereelse, but why would you give it
to a corporation?
That feels crazy.
And how did patents work?
If you were awarded the patentand it was in your name, then
how do you, is it anytimesomeone uses your patent to
create something?
(46:04):
Do you get some small percentageof that?
Is that how patents work?
Aarati (46:08):
I think so I'm not a hundred percent sure because I
would assume that even if shedid have the patent in her name
DuPont would have gottensomething because was creating
it with their lab equipment andyou know in their facilities So
that's what I would have assumedbut I...
so I would have guessed thatthey would have gotten something
out of it anyway, even if shedidn't sign over all the
(46:28):
royalties, but she just did.
And I guess part of it isbecause she didn't marry or have
any children.
Her, like, work was her life.
just very focused on herresearch.
And so, and she loved her job,like I said, so just gave it all
(46:48):
back to them because she lovedit so much, which I can't
comprehend, really.
Arpita (46:53):
I don't relate to that one bit, but good her.
I guess maybe also like if shedidn't have like a clear person
to leave it to, then there wasmaybe less of an incentive to
keep the money in some way.
Well, okay.
Aarati (47:06):
Yeah.
So she retired from DuPont in1986 and spent the rest of her
life tutoring high school kidsin chemistry and encouraging
young women to becomescientists.
In 1995, she was the fourthwoman to be inducted into the
National Inventors Hall of Fame.
fame.
DuPont also awarded her theLavoisier medal, hope I'm saying
(47:29):
that right, for outstandingtechnical achievement as a
quote, persistentexperimentalist and role model
whose discovery of liquidcrystalline polyamides led to
Kevlar aramid fibers.
Arpita (47:44):
Wow.
Aarati (47:45):
End quote.
Yeah.
Arpita (47:47):
Do we have someone else who was also in the
International Inventors Hall ofFame?
Was it Hedy Lamar?
Aarati (47:52):
Oh, it might have been.
Arpita (47:54):
Yeah, I think it might have been.
I thought we had someone elsewho was in the Hall of Fame.
Anyway.
Aarati (47:59):
Yeah.
When would Hedy Lamarr have beenin there?
Because she was only, like,Stephanie Kwolek was only the
fourth woman, so, Hedy Lamarr,if she was in there, would have
had to be number one, two, orthree, I would guess.
Arpita (48:14):
Yes, she was, uh, inducted in 2014.
Aarati (48:18):
Oh, she was inducted much later.
Okay.
Arpita (48:20):
She was inducted posthumously, I think.
Aarati (48:23):
So Stephanie Kwolek was inducted when she was still
alive.
Um, in 1996 Stephanie wasawarded the National Medal of
Technology for her work onsynthetic fibers.
And this is a medal that wasawarded by the U.
S.
president.
So there's this kind of.
hilarious video clip where she'sgetting the medal from President
Bill Clinton.
(48:43):
Um, and he's like this ginormous6'2 man and she's this tiny 4'11
woman.
And so like the discrepancybetween her heights is just
amazing.
Arpita (48:55):
That's so funny.
She's teeny tiny.
Aarati (48:58):
She's tiny.
I'll put a picture of it on thewebsite so you can see because
it's, really funny.
Arpita (49:02):
That's so
Aarati (49:03):
funny.
In 1997, she received the Perkinmedal from the American Chemical
Society, and in 2003, she wasinducted into the National
Women's Hall of Fame.
And there are a bunch of otherhonors and awards, but literally
we'd be here all day.
So I'm gonna leave it at that.
Arpita (49:23):
So many accolades.
Aarati (49:24):
Yes.
She died on June 18th, 2014, atthe age of 90 over her lifetime,
she was granted 17 patents.
Um.
But as I, as we said before, shesigned over all the royalties,
so never saw money from it.
(49:44):
So I wanted to end on a quotefrom a biography that was
written about her by Edwin BritWyckoff.
And he wrote that"YoungStephanie wanted to save lives
as a doctor.
Instead, she grew up and learnedto save lives as a chemist." And
I thought that was, really nice.
Arpita (50:03):
That is really nice.
I think it's interesting too,because I think a lot of young
people and like kids think aboutwanting to do good in the world.
And it does feel like being adoctor is like the very clear
path to do that.
But there are, I feel like evenjust as this podcast, we've just
seen so many different ways to,you know, change the way we
think about the world in waysthat are not just straight
(50:23):
medicine, you know?
Aarati (50:25):
Yeah.
It's, it's really incredible tothink about how the world is so
different now.
Like, I was just thinking whenyou said, um, you hadn't thought
about how many differentmaterials...
Arpita (50:36):
Yeah.
Aarati (50:37):
...existed until just now.
And I was like, so that meansthat, like, before they invented
Nomex, these firefighters werejust rushing into fires with,
like, normal clothes on.
Isn't that crazy?
Arpita (50:49):
And I don't think about, like, all the smaller things,
like, you were talking about,like, what they were used in
switchboards, or used to encasefires, and it totally makes
sense, right?
You have these, like, hugeservers, and, like, all these
machinery, and you, like, eventhings that you don't interact
with or touch on a daily basis,like, all those components need
to withstand certain stressors.
Aarati (51:07):
Yeah.
And
Arpita (51:08):
did not think about
Aarati (51:09):
one tiny little spark and it sets the whole thing
aflame, like our whole worldcomes down, like the internet
breaks because...
Arpita (51:16):
Yeah,
Aarati (51:16):
You know?
Arpita (51:17):
Exactly.
Aarati (51:18):
So yeah.
So it's, it's pretty incredible.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Arpita (51:21):
That's so interesting.
Aarati (51:23):
That's the story of Stephanie Kwolek.
I hope that my brother is happyand will get off my case a
little bit.
Arpita (51:30):
This was good.
I feel like this was veryapproachable.
I totally, yeah, it's not tootechnical.
I got really nervous when youstarted and you said, you're
going to talk about polymers, Iwas going to be like, Oh God,
really got to turn my brain onfor this on my day off.
Aarati (51:42):
No.
Arpita (51:43):
It was great.
Aarati (51:44):
Well, that's why I was resisting him so much too.
I was like, polymers! Talk aboutpolymers.
But
Arpita (51:51):
There's like, you and I are like biologists.
Every time we have to dosomething, that's not biology.
We're just like, oh shit.
Like, what are we going to do?
Aarati (51:56):
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Arpita (52:00):
like math at one time.
We're both just like, huh,
Aarati (52:03):
God.
I'm, I'm still like traumatizedfrom that episode.
Arpita (52:08):
Yeah.
I don't know if we're going togo run it back for another
mathematician, but
Aarati (52:12):
Yeah.
Well, I don't know.
It's up to our audience.
If you want us to do anothermathematician, write in and tell
us and we will have to do it.
So,
Arpita (52:19):
We'll try.
Aarati (52:20):
Up to you guys.
Arpita (52:23):
Great story.
I loved it.
Aarati (52:25):
Thank you.
Arpita (52:26):
Thanks for listening.
If you have a suggestion for astory we should cover or
thoughts you want to share aboutan episode, reach out to us at
smartteapodcast.
com.
You can follow us on Instagramand Twitter@smartteapodcast and
listen to us on Spotify, Applepodcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Leave us a rating or comment,really helps us grow.
New episodes are released everyother Wednesday.
(52:48):
See you next time!
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