December 6, 2024 • 33 mins
The ACT is a standardized test that colleges use for a range of decisions, and as we’ll hear, scholarship-granting organizations help determine who they want to award those scholarships to.
We’re talking about the ACT because it’s coming up in the spring and South Milwaukee High School has a new tool to help students prepare for the ACT and will begin dedicating some classroom time to preparing students for this important examination.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to the SMI podcast.
(00:08):
I'm your host, Daniel Bader, communications coordinator for the school district of South
Milwaukee.
Today, we're at the high school talking about the ACT, a standardized test that is used
by colleges for a range of decisions and as well here, by scholarship granting organizations
to help determine who they want to award those scholarships to.
(00:29):
The reason we're talking about the ACT is because it's coming up in the spring and also
because South Milwaukee High School has a new tool to help students prepare for the
ACT and will begin dedicating some classroom time to preparing students for this important
examination.
Joining me today is a panel of speakers from across the high school, a parent and teacher,
(00:51):
the principal, academic dean, and a career and technology teacher.
We'll start by having them introduce themselves.
Hi Dan.
My current, I'm the high school principal.
I'm Donna Krasvich.
I'm the academic dean at the high school.
Melissa Kehoe.
I'm a parent of a current senior at South Milwaukee High School and also I teach the
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avid elective courses.
And I'm Amy McConnell, a career in technical education teacher.
I teach the health science courses at the high school.
Awesome.
Thank you guys.
Welcome.
I'm really excited that we have a parent here because I don't always get to talk to parents.
Here we are.
Melissa, you have a senior this year and you are experiencing the importance of the ACT
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test.
Tell us what's going on with you and your student now in their journey.
So at this point, Joe has applied for the colleges that he wants to go to.
One thing that we really noticed and we're kind of shocked at seeing, especially since
he's our first, most were test optional.
(02:03):
So we didn't necessarily have to put his ACT score in order to get into the college.
Now that he's been accepted to colleges, however, and we're looking at scholarships and how
we're going to pay for college, that's where it's really coming into play.
So right now we're going through the process of Carthage with their scholarships and for
every scholarship so far, we have had to put in what his ACT score was as a way to show
(02:31):
that he deserves the money.
It's okay if you don't want to speak for him, but what was his experience taking the
test and getting ready for it?
We did a lot of test prep.
Actually, I started test prep with him in middle school, especially because we were
shut down for COVID.
So we had a lot of extra time at home.
(02:51):
He took the test multiple times because like any other skill, the more you do it, the more
practice you get, the better you score.
So he took it multiple times and Joe just really understood, again, with my background
and me teaching him what it really means and what it can do for you.
He knew that it was a big deal and he needed to take it serious.
(03:15):
So it wasn't something that he went into that he was nervous or scared about because he
was prepared for it.
But he just knew we got to lock in and do our best.
Mike as principal here, tell me what we do for our students with the ACT.
(03:36):
If you're not a Melissa Kehoe who knows how to do this, how do we prepare students for
this and why is it important?
Well, really nobody's Melissa Kehoe.
So really we have that going for us.
But I mean, obviously the ACT is really designed to give colleges and universities an idea
of how prepared students are for college.
(03:58):
And that's not just four-year schools, that's two-year schools, that's technical colleges,
that's even workplace and apprenticeships in a lot of different areas.
For us in particular, we have a focus on making sure our students are prepared to take these
tests.
We have ACT prep classes for free after school hours.
(04:22):
We have given students and tied in starting last year with the Horizon test, which is
tied directly to the ACT as well as the pre-ACT for the freshmen and sophomores.
That's a requirement of the state.
We actually get to give every student in our school a free ACT exam.
(04:44):
Every student gets to take that for free when it used to cost, anytime outside of that it
used to cost.
I mean, when I was in school, I think it was like $70 to $80.
I think it's up to around $100 now.
So we really, this is a great opportunity for students because it not only helps them
understand what's possible for them in colleges and kind of measures that gets that measurement
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there, but it also is something that's important to tell us how are we doing as a school to
say, are we doing everything we can to best prepare our students for whatever their career
is moving forward?
That's really a really big important part for all of us to understand.
(05:30):
What I hope our parents understand is that this is an important test for all of the reasons
that Melissa mentioned.
Also it's important for all of our students to understand that it's really assessing the
skills that they will need when they leave high school, whether that's going to a two
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or four year school, whether that's going into the workforce, whether that's getting
a job right away, whether that is taking your gap year and working and doing whatever else
it is or going into beauty school or working any sort of job you're going to have later
on in life, any sort of career that you're going to have, whatever you decide your path
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is, this is an assessment to tell you how prepared you are, which also in turn tells
us how well we did preparing our students for their next career.
And it's not just college, you've said that a couple times.
Amy, in your line of education, how does the ACT figure in?
(06:41):
Sure.
So as part of our CTE program, we have a lot of our youth apprentices and students who
might be going to technical schools and pursuing healthcare careers.
And a lot of those schools do require a minimum ACT score specifically in reading and sometimes
math.
We work with Gateway to do our CNA program.
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And in addition to looking at their GPAs, they do look at a reading score and it has to be
a minimum of 16 on the ACT for them to gain admission into the class or they have to take
an additional class.
And that's not unusual.
I looked at Milwaukee area technical college, MATC, Gateway, Madison area, Tech College,
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and they all have about the same range for a lot of their technical careers.
Sonography and vet tech and dental assistant are three really big ones that a lot of my
students are interested in and they all require somewhere around a 15 or 16 for those subsections
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of math.
Mike, tell me the ranges.
I'm referring around some terms.
I don't know what ACT stands for.
I don't know what a good score is.
What does it mean?
Yeah, I think when you're looking at, you know, it used to be like, so when it was used
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specifically as parts of admission requirements, you know, that 22 to 24 range was really kind
of like, that was a bare minimum type of range that you were going to see.
Those universities required that's overall.
Top score is 36 and we've had some students here that have had 36s.
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You know, we've been fortunate.
We actually have two staff members here that their kids got and one of their children got
a 36.
Yeah, so, you know, we've had some really important and that's opened up doors for a
lot of students, right?
So not everyone's going to score a 36 though.
(08:53):
So the key is, is what is appropriate for where you're going next?
You know, even, you know, we talk about nursing, we talk about, you know, vet techs and along
the health science range.
It also is applicable to carpenter apprentices, construction, anywhere between that 15 to
(09:16):
17 range in reading because you have to be able to read instructions.
You have to be able to follow.
You have to be able to read diagrams, you know, the math skills that you're going to
need in terms of, you know, making sure that things are at right angles, making sure that
you're actually measuring it, you know, that you can measure and you know what those measurements
are and being able to do that.
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If you're building a house and the house all of a sudden is the leaning tower of Pisa,
you're probably not going to be too successful in your career that way.
So it's really about what range is right for that student and what they want to achieve
and really getting to that part of it.
You know, the ACT assesses, you know, not only reading, but math, English, right, language
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arts, as well as science reasoning.
So the ability to read something and analyze that data and information, which is so critical
for the workplace and so critical to anyone's success beyond school, you know, as well as
the optional writing piece.
So when you add in all of that, it's really assessing you as an entire student when it
(10:25):
goes through that.
So being able to have, you know, again, the range, whether you're going four-year school,
whether you're going two-year school into a specific program or straight into the workforce
as an apprentice or a registered apprentice in some of those areas is really specific
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to what you want to do, but they still want to see how you perform at your best on that
program.
The higher you get, the more you separate yourself from the applications that are out
there.
And I think that's the most important thing is to understand it's not just about college,
because that was the narrative before.
(11:10):
It's not just about college anymore.
It's about every workplace that you will find, they may ask for that score or they're going
to want to see that score.
And that's something you can put on a resume that says, hey, I scored a 23 composite with
a 19 reading score.
That's going to separate me from a person who scored a 17 and a 14 reading score, you
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know, on my ACT.
I'm better prepared.
It's a trusted measure of educational attainment, right?
You're all nodding.
Okay.
So, I went to liberal arts school.
I was pushed to take the SATs and my best friend went to an engineering school and he
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took the ACTs.
Is that SAT so a thing and do people take them?
Yeah, it's, I mean, actually, honestly, it's really, it's school dependent and really it's
geographically dependent.
A lot of the Midwest, it's ACT and that's really what it is.
You talk about East Coast and West Coast a lot.
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You'll see a lot more SAT requirements and things like that.
So really, the two tests really are designed to do a lot of the same things, but really
Midwest and almost straight through the central part of the US is really ACT has been kind
of where they are.
You get into some of the liberal arts schools, some of the Ivy League schools and things
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like that, or you go out West to UCLA, USC, some of MIT.
I'm thinking, you know, East Coast as well.
They're going to want to see SAT.
There's a few different nuances to the test, but really ultimately, ironically, it's geographic
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for the most part.
Well, I just gave it away then because I'm from New York and I went to a state college
school, go Bears, pod stand Bears.
But yeah, so that makes sense.
Can I add one thing though?
So we do offer the PSAT here and that is one thing I did make, I made Joey take that as
a sophomore and as a junior, partly because you can become a national merit scholarship
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winner.
We had someone in the finals last year for that.
The other thing, so not only, you know, were we hopeful that maybe he could attain that,
but it's less than $20.
It was $18 to have him take it and it was a really cheap and easy way to get more practice
at standardized testing.
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Because the tests are very similar, the scoring is different, but the content is very similar.
So again, I wanted him to have that exposure just to become more and more comfortable with
having a timed standardized test.
Yeah.
And I'm glad that you brought up content too, because I think sometimes there's a misconception
about like, should I be practicing as a freshman when I haven't learned everything as a junior
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has learned?
And yes, because so much of either one of those tests is just, do you know how to take
a test and do you know the little tricks that on the reading section you have nine minutes
per passage and there's always going to be four passages and one's a science and one
is this.
And so a lot of the test prep that we do is, is revolved around that about, Hey, you should
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expect to see 60 math questions.
You have one minute per question.
Like you learn all of those little tips that you wouldn't otherwise know.
And why not give yourself the edge?
Yeah.
I think the other part too, is that like, I think that's a misconception.
But a lot of times is that you have to, you know, like you have to know all of the content
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in order to actually perform well on the test.
And they really, you don't, you need the skills, right?
You need the skills.
You need to know how to analyze the passage that you're reading.
You need to be able to pull information off of a chart.
You need to do all of these different skills.
You don't necessarily need to know that Columbus sailed the ocean blue in 1492.
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Like that's not what they're testing.
They're testing.
Do you have the skills necessary to be successful beyond high school?
And Melissa, I'm going to be picking on you because if I'm a parent that doesn't know
how to get ready for this, you said you practiced at home.
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Where'd you get the resources?
How did you do that?
You can get everything online.
So I literally printed, so they do like releases of tests.
So I printed like the 2017 ACT test.
They're free.
And that's what we would do.
You know, I would sit down with him and have him time him for the math.
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Because again, like Amy said, when you get to know the format of the test, that's half
of the battle.
When you know, you know, there's very concrete things on the ACT that will happen every single
time no matter what test you're taking.
So just giving Joey that edge of knowing there will always be four reading passages.
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You know, some of the math, most of the math actually on that test to get a 22, you can,
you know, by eighth grade, they're going to have a couple, you know, upper level pre-calc
on there.
But the format was huge for him.
And yeah, I remember that drilling drilling for the SAT.
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It was remember if you don't answer a question and I don't know, say CT, but that doesn't
count against you if you don't answer it at all.
Like that was one tip that stuck with me for that test back then.
Please don't take my word for it now.
I don't know that that's true.
But that idea was like that is important because we try to answer every question, right?
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And on the ACT you do answer every single question.
I actually ran out of time taking my math section.
And so I picked one letter and I went all the way down to make sure every single bubble
was filled in.
And ironically, statistically, I was more likely to get one of them right on the math
section.
That's true.
One out of four.
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Right.
25% chance.
That's true, right?
If you don't know, but or you have a reasonably can guess it's between one or two, then you
have a 50% chance.
I was just the logic of taking a test, I guess.
And our students, I'm sure are good at taking tests by the time they're in high school.
But it's a different animal, right?
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What's hanging out there in my mind is that we say a lot that our students are not a number
on a test, right?
They're a full thing.
And we've said that it's not required for admission.
So we talk about around having around experience and being able to take that with you to college.
That is true, right?
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You're nodding.
But also this test matters.
Like this is one that if you're going to take one, this is one to take and it matters.
Can we talk maybe about that experience here and that maybe this is going beyond this discussion
but what college prep looks like around the ACT, right?
There's other things that matter.
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But this matters too.
Yeah, so absolutely.
We have taken a very serious approach this year in terms of how we approach all of our
testing, you know, and really focusing on our messaging towards that.
And you'll see more of our more of that messaging coming out, you know, for our parents, our
parents, our families, coming out leading up to everything that we're doing.
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We also, as I mentioned before, we tied in these practice tests with our Horizon and
we progress monitor.
So ultimately, our students are taking three practice tests in their freshman year, three
in their sophomore year, and two by the time they actually take the test in the spring,
their junior year for the ACT.
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So they're getting some practice testing in.
It also helps us say, okay, are we on track?
Are our students on track for what we're doing?
But we know based on what we see because we are evaluated as part of, you know, this is
part of our achievement score on our report card, as part of our growth score on our report
card and how students are performing on tests like this, we also know that we need to do
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better, right?
We know that we need to do better for all of our students and really part of that is
a new program called On to College that we're starting to implement throughout the school
this year.
That's really going to help our students in some of the content information, some of the
skill information, but also a lot of the test taking strategies that go along with that
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too.
So that's going to be an important part of every student's experience as they go through
school because it's really, it is our job, right?
We have a responsibility to prepare students for what's coming next in their life and for
some of them it's the ACT tests or pre-ACT tests.
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And we need to make sure that students understand how important that is, but we also need to
give them and prepare them with the skills necessary to succeed and achieve at highest
levels and that's for every student that walks in our doors.
So that's part of the reason, but one of the things that we're definitely implementing
is this On to College program.
Donna, you are the expert on that topic.
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What is it?
So it's a school-wide test prep program.
It's going to start the first week of the new semester, so after the semester one exams,
and it's going to be this similar test prep to what's available to students now on a volunteer
basis after school.
We're going to be bringing that same test prep into their core classes.
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So the math, the English, the science, and the social studies classes will all put aside
some time to do test prep for everyone.
So we're making sure that everyone has access to it.
We're going to cover a lot of things that the other ladies were saying here about it's
not just that you have to know the content going in, you have to be able to answer questions
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very quickly because that timed environment can be a high pressure situation for a lot
of students.
So we want to make sure that they have a lot of strategies that are going to allow them
to show what they know, but do so in a very efficient way.
Even like you said, guesses don't count against you, but in situations where you're not sure
what the answer might be, there are a lot of various strategies that you can apply that
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allow you to make your best guess and increase the chances that you might get a couple more
questions right, even if you weren't sure what the answer was.
So making sure that every student has access to that and doing so in a way that we selected
a program that is very accessible to all students, whether they're students with special needs
or students who are English language learners or students who may not have been very successful
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in school.
It covers a lot of content in all of the core areas, it refreshes things that maybe students
really hadn't learned explicitly for two or three years.
It goes back to middle school skills that we're assumed to have, but really need to
be fresh in your mind.
So we're going to be starting that in January.
It'll last through February and the first week of March right up until the students
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take the test.
And I'm really glad that you mentioned like all students because it's easy to talk about
the kids who do really well and getting them these really high scores.
And yes, that's important, but I think we don't want to forget that sometimes students
may have struggled academically and with their GPAs for a lot of different reasons.
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And sometimes we get their test scores back and it's just wow.
And I want to make sure that they also have an opportunity to show those colleges like,
hey, I might have been struggling with my grades and whatever else I have going on,
but like I can show this test score and I am very capable of achieving it and not just
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looking at the kids who have historically done well will continue to do well, but really
have an opportunity for everybody to show what they can do.
Absolutely.
It's really going to help those students who have some test anxiety because it really helps
build confidence.
And like Mike said, we do practice going back to the early grades and in high school we
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practice three times a year in every grade, but it really gives them concrete strategies
that they can hold onto if they do get nervous or if they do blackout and there's a lot of
repetition.
The program that we use is very interactive.
So students go through the test prep and they get immediate explanations when they don't
get the right answer.
They go through why this answer is better than this other answer.
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So it's not going to take a lot of time away from the course, but it's really going to
not only give them the test prep, but it's all related to what they're studying in their
courieries anyway, so it's all connected.
You mentioned the program.
Is it online?
Like on to college?
What is it?
Is it booklets?
It is an online program.
(24:43):
There'll be videos that students watch.
They'll have workbooks that they work through.
The videos go through detailed test questions in each of the core subtests and they present
the questions.
They give students an opportunity to come up with an answer and then the facilitator kind
of explains everything that they might want to know about that question.
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And then they include strategies on how you would know this is the right answer or if
you needed to guess, here's a strategy that you would use.
And it goes through each of those samples in each of those four subtests and then gives
them a chance to do their own practice questions.
Fascinating.
And then Mike, you had said there's one, you get the one free through school, but if you
(25:27):
don't do well or you think you could do better, you can take it again, right?
Yeah.
The one free is offered spring of their junior year through the state of Wisconsin.
It's always recommended and we talk to all students really about having, taking the opportunity
to take the test really should be starting no later than probably spring of your sophomore
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year.
So the test is seven times a year, I think is offered at various schools in the area.
Spring of the sophomore year is like the latest I would start taking the test, then taking
it again, like fall of your junior year, fall, winter, depending what's, you know, the more
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times you take it, the better you're going to be at taking the test too.
But we know that that's, that's not possible for all students.
We know how many students that we have that are, I mean, whether you're busy working or
you're busy with sports and you're busy with a lot of other things, sometimes that's not
possible, which is why it's great that there is one opportunity at least for everyone to
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take it.
And sometimes that score, you know, satisfies whatever that student wants to go and do and
or be later on, but really taking it multiple times, you can really only improve your, your
odds of succeeding at a higher level.
Yeah.
So it's your best score, right?
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That's, so if you take it the second time and you do poorly, the first score counts,
right?
Right.
Yeah.
So your best score essentially to students is really what's, or to schools that are,
that are out there.
So I think you can report all of them to the schools.
You don't, you don't have to, but on the ACT you actually can choose universities to send,
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have the scores sent to if you want to.
It's not a requirement, but it's something that you can do.
Yeah.
And one thing, I don't know if we hit on, maybe we did before I turned the mic on.
I don't remember now, but was it that not necessary for admission, but it could save
students time and money once they're in school, right?
(27:46):
Yeah.
In college.
Yeah.
There's some placement pieces too.
So if you have a certain score on the ACT or specifically with English, reading, math,
that you would be placed in an actual college level course.
Whereas if you don't, haven't performed it that way, you either have to take a placement
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test that costs money to see, which is really a similar test that one you already got for
free that you'd have to take to be able to see if you could place into that.
If you don't, or if that's not an option, you could have to take a course that is a
remedial level, you know, not a college credit earning course and pay hundreds of dollars
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for that course as well on top of it too.
That doesn't count towards any degrees, you know, whether it be associate's degrees or
bachelor's degrees or anything like that.
It just really kind of extends your stay and maybe you might have to come in the summertime
and you know, I don't know any student that wants to go to college necessarily between
summer and fall of their, after their senior year.
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And sometimes there's limits on that.
So with the nursing program, it's a 16 on the ACT on the reading section, or you can
take an Accuplacer test, but you can only take that twice.
And if you don't pass it in either of those two times, you have to wait a year before
you're allowed to take it again.
(29:15):
Or you take one of those remedial reading courses.
Right.
And you're in college and you're taking a class, so you don't have the room in your
schedule and you're paying for it and it doesn't count.
Yeah.
So then your two year degree or four year degree becomes a five or six year degree or
just becomes longer and have more debt and.
(29:36):
Sure.
And Melissa, you'd said about scholarships too.
This matters, right?
I mean, can you talk a little bit about your experience with that?
So we're just starting to get into the scholarship journey with Joe.
Like I said, step one was doing all the applications and getting in.
Now we're starting that.
And they want to know, you know, they these places have the money, but they want to make
(29:59):
sure whoever they're giving the money to is actually going to use it and be successful
with it.
So so far, all of the scholarships, the applications that we've applied for, he has to list his
ACT score.
The other thing I'll say about ACT score that I'm learning as well, it's called a super
score.
(30:19):
So not all colleges, not all scholarships accept a super score, but because Joe took
it multiple times, if that's an option, he can actually choose the top scores for each
of the four tests to submit.
Oh, interesting.
Okay.
Across all experiences.
So yeah.
So out of all of the ACT tests that he took, he can pick his highest reading, math, English,
(30:44):
science, and then that he can submit.
Got it.
Oh, interesting.
So those not weren't wasted effort because he got better at taking the test, but also
they all counted for him.
Yeah.
So final thoughts, words of advice to parents that are listening to this and just getting
(31:04):
to know the ACT or to our students who are getting ready to take it.
Don't be scared.
Be prepared.
I like that you said that about Joe that he wasn't nervous.
He was confident walking in.
I don't want this to be scary.
(31:26):
I would say that parents should expect more from the school in terms of messaging, in
terms of just providing more information on onto college because they can actually see
that.
And actually that's a program they can do at home too.
So we're going to do it specifically here in school at certain during in certain classes
(31:49):
during the course of the day.
But it's something also that there's more than what we're providing to the program,
even in school that they would be able to do at home.
So there's even a larger opportunity to dig really dig deep into this and be really prepared
when that test day comes in in March.
(32:10):
And really it's all part of the journey for all of our students to be able to see what
they can do.
I think a lot of students we run into and we have conversations with don't necessarily
believe that they can achieve what they actually can achieve.
And something like this and being prepared for something like this, when you get that
(32:31):
score back and it's higher than what you thought you were going to get or how you it really
gives a student a real sense of accomplishment throughout that.
Even though it's just one piece of information, it's something that says, hey, I did this,
I can do this, I have the ability to do this, I know this stuff.
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And I think that's an important piece to it.
So being prepared for all those things, you know, practice, take advantage of all the
opportunities that you have out there and really just be ready for all of the things
that are possible for you because of what you can achieve on this assessment.
(33:24):
I want to thank our panelists for helping expand our understanding of the importance
of the ACT and to you for listening to the SMY podcast.
If you have a suggestion for an upcoming episode, I'd love to hear it.
Email info at sdsm.k12.wi.us with your suggestion and we'll see you next time on the SMY podcast.
Welcome to the SMI podcast.
(00:08):
I'm your host, Daniel Bader, communications coordinator for the school district of South
Milwaukee.
Today, we're at the high school talking about the ACT, a standardized test that is used
by colleges for a range of decisions and as well here, by scholarship granting organizations
to help determine who they want to award those scholarships to.
(00:29):
The reason we're talking about the ACT is because it's coming up in the spring and also
because South Milwaukee High School has a new tool to help students prepare for the
ACT and will begin dedicating some classroom time to preparing students for this important
examination.
Joining me today is a panel of speakers from across the high school, a parent and teacher,
(00:51):
the principal, academic dean, and a career and technology teacher.
We'll start by having them introduce themselves.
Hi Dan.
My current, I'm the high school principal.
I'm Donna Krasvich.
I'm the academic dean at the high school.
Melissa Kehoe.
I'm a parent of a current senior at South Milwaukee High School and also I teach the
(01:13):
avid elective courses.
And I'm Amy McConnell, a career in technical education teacher.
I teach the health science courses at the high school.
Awesome.
Thank you guys.
Welcome.
I'm really excited that we have a parent here because I don't always get to talk to parents.
Here we are.
Melissa, you have a senior this year and you are experiencing the importance of the ACT
(01:40):
test.
Tell us what's going on with you and your student now in their journey.
So at this point, Joe has applied for the colleges that he wants to go to.
One thing that we really noticed and we're kind of shocked at seeing, especially since
he's our first, most were test optional.
(02:03):
So we didn't necessarily have to put his ACT score in order to get into the college.
Now that he's been accepted to colleges, however, and we're looking at scholarships and how
we're going to pay for college, that's where it's really coming into play.
So right now we're going through the process of Carthage with their scholarships and for
every scholarship so far, we have had to put in what his ACT score was as a way to show
(02:31):
that he deserves the money.
It's okay if you don't want to speak for him, but what was his experience taking the
test and getting ready for it?
We did a lot of test prep.
Actually, I started test prep with him in middle school, especially because we were
shut down for COVID.
So we had a lot of extra time at home.
(02:51):
He took the test multiple times because like any other skill, the more you do it, the more
practice you get, the better you score.
So he took it multiple times and Joe just really understood, again, with my background
and me teaching him what it really means and what it can do for you.
He knew that it was a big deal and he needed to take it serious.
(03:15):
So it wasn't something that he went into that he was nervous or scared about because he
was prepared for it.
But he just knew we got to lock in and do our best.
Mike as principal here, tell me what we do for our students with the ACT.
(03:36):
If you're not a Melissa Kehoe who knows how to do this, how do we prepare students for
this and why is it important?
Well, really nobody's Melissa Kehoe.
So really we have that going for us.
But I mean, obviously the ACT is really designed to give colleges and universities an idea
of how prepared students are for college.
(03:58):
And that's not just four-year schools, that's two-year schools, that's technical colleges,
that's even workplace and apprenticeships in a lot of different areas.
For us in particular, we have a focus on making sure our students are prepared to take these
tests.
We have ACT prep classes for free after school hours.
(04:22):
We have given students and tied in starting last year with the Horizon test, which is
tied directly to the ACT as well as the pre-ACT for the freshmen and sophomores.
That's a requirement of the state.
We actually get to give every student in our school a free ACT exam.
(04:44):
Every student gets to take that for free when it used to cost, anytime outside of that it
used to cost.
I mean, when I was in school, I think it was like $70 to $80.
I think it's up to around $100 now.
So we really, this is a great opportunity for students because it not only helps them
understand what's possible for them in colleges and kind of measures that gets that measurement
(05:09):
there, but it also is something that's important to tell us how are we doing as a school to
say, are we doing everything we can to best prepare our students for whatever their career
is moving forward?
That's really a really big important part for all of us to understand.
(05:30):
What I hope our parents understand is that this is an important test for all of the reasons
that Melissa mentioned.
Also it's important for all of our students to understand that it's really assessing the
skills that they will need when they leave high school, whether that's going to a two
(05:52):
or four year school, whether that's going into the workforce, whether that's getting
a job right away, whether that is taking your gap year and working and doing whatever else
it is or going into beauty school or working any sort of job you're going to have later
on in life, any sort of career that you're going to have, whatever you decide your path
(06:16):
is, this is an assessment to tell you how prepared you are, which also in turn tells
us how well we did preparing our students for their next career.
And it's not just college, you've said that a couple times.
Amy, in your line of education, how does the ACT figure in?
(06:41):
Sure.
So as part of our CTE program, we have a lot of our youth apprentices and students who
might be going to technical schools and pursuing healthcare careers.
And a lot of those schools do require a minimum ACT score specifically in reading and sometimes
math.
We work with Gateway to do our CNA program.
(07:03):
And in addition to looking at their GPAs, they do look at a reading score and it has to be
a minimum of 16 on the ACT for them to gain admission into the class or they have to take
an additional class.
And that's not unusual.
I looked at Milwaukee area technical college, MATC, Gateway, Madison area, Tech College,
(07:26):
and they all have about the same range for a lot of their technical careers.
Sonography and vet tech and dental assistant are three really big ones that a lot of my
students are interested in and they all require somewhere around a 15 or 16 for those subsections
(07:49):
of math.
Mike, tell me the ranges.
I'm referring around some terms.
I don't know what ACT stands for.
I don't know what a good score is.
What does it mean?
Yeah, I think when you're looking at, you know, it used to be like, so when it was used
(08:12):
specifically as parts of admission requirements, you know, that 22 to 24 range was really kind
of like, that was a bare minimum type of range that you were going to see.
Those universities required that's overall.
Top score is 36 and we've had some students here that have had 36s.
(08:33):
You know, we've been fortunate.
We actually have two staff members here that their kids got and one of their children got
a 36.
Yeah, so, you know, we've had some really important and that's opened up doors for a
lot of students, right?
So not everyone's going to score a 36 though.
(08:53):
So the key is, is what is appropriate for where you're going next?
You know, even, you know, we talk about nursing, we talk about, you know, vet techs and along
the health science range.
It also is applicable to carpenter apprentices, construction, anywhere between that 15 to
(09:16):
17 range in reading because you have to be able to read instructions.
You have to be able to follow.
You have to be able to read diagrams, you know, the math skills that you're going to
need in terms of, you know, making sure that things are at right angles, making sure that
you're actually measuring it, you know, that you can measure and you know what those measurements
are and being able to do that.
(09:37):
If you're building a house and the house all of a sudden is the leaning tower of Pisa,
you're probably not going to be too successful in your career that way.
So it's really about what range is right for that student and what they want to achieve
and really getting to that part of it.
You know, the ACT assesses, you know, not only reading, but math, English, right, language
(10:03):
arts, as well as science reasoning.
So the ability to read something and analyze that data and information, which is so critical
for the workplace and so critical to anyone's success beyond school, you know, as well as
the optional writing piece.
So when you add in all of that, it's really assessing you as an entire student when it
(10:25):
goes through that.
So being able to have, you know, again, the range, whether you're going four-year school,
whether you're going two-year school into a specific program or straight into the workforce
as an apprentice or a registered apprentice in some of those areas is really specific
(10:48):
to what you want to do, but they still want to see how you perform at your best on that
program.
The higher you get, the more you separate yourself from the applications that are out
there.
And I think that's the most important thing is to understand it's not just about college,
because that was the narrative before.
(11:10):
It's not just about college anymore.
It's about every workplace that you will find, they may ask for that score or they're going
to want to see that score.
And that's something you can put on a resume that says, hey, I scored a 23 composite with
a 19 reading score.
That's going to separate me from a person who scored a 17 and a 14 reading score, you
(11:35):
know, on my ACT.
I'm better prepared.
It's a trusted measure of educational attainment, right?
You're all nodding.
Okay.
So, I went to liberal arts school.
I was pushed to take the SATs and my best friend went to an engineering school and he
(11:56):
took the ACTs.
Is that SAT so a thing and do people take them?
Yeah, it's, I mean, actually, honestly, it's really, it's school dependent and really it's
geographically dependent.
A lot of the Midwest, it's ACT and that's really what it is.
You talk about East Coast and West Coast a lot.
(12:18):
You'll see a lot more SAT requirements and things like that.
So really, the two tests really are designed to do a lot of the same things, but really
Midwest and almost straight through the central part of the US is really ACT has been kind
of where they are.
You get into some of the liberal arts schools, some of the Ivy League schools and things
(12:43):
like that, or you go out West to UCLA, USC, some of MIT.
I'm thinking, you know, East Coast as well.
They're going to want to see SAT.
There's a few different nuances to the test, but really ultimately, ironically, it's geographic
(13:03):
for the most part.
Well, I just gave it away then because I'm from New York and I went to a state college
school, go Bears, pod stand Bears.
But yeah, so that makes sense.
Can I add one thing though?
So we do offer the PSAT here and that is one thing I did make, I made Joey take that as
a sophomore and as a junior, partly because you can become a national merit scholarship
(13:28):
winner.
We had someone in the finals last year for that.
The other thing, so not only, you know, were we hopeful that maybe he could attain that,
but it's less than $20.
It was $18 to have him take it and it was a really cheap and easy way to get more practice
at standardized testing.
(13:50):
Because the tests are very similar, the scoring is different, but the content is very similar.
So again, I wanted him to have that exposure just to become more and more comfortable with
having a timed standardized test.
Yeah.
And I'm glad that you brought up content too, because I think sometimes there's a misconception
about like, should I be practicing as a freshman when I haven't learned everything as a junior
(14:14):
has learned?
And yes, because so much of either one of those tests is just, do you know how to take
a test and do you know the little tricks that on the reading section you have nine minutes
per passage and there's always going to be four passages and one's a science and one
is this.
And so a lot of the test prep that we do is, is revolved around that about, Hey, you should
(14:39):
expect to see 60 math questions.
You have one minute per question.
Like you learn all of those little tips that you wouldn't otherwise know.
And why not give yourself the edge?
Yeah.
I think the other part too, is that like, I think that's a misconception.
But a lot of times is that you have to, you know, like you have to know all of the content
(15:02):
in order to actually perform well on the test.
And they really, you don't, you need the skills, right?
You need the skills.
You need to know how to analyze the passage that you're reading.
You need to be able to pull information off of a chart.
You need to do all of these different skills.
You don't necessarily need to know that Columbus sailed the ocean blue in 1492.
(15:22):
Like that's not what they're testing.
They're testing.
Do you have the skills necessary to be successful beyond high school?
And Melissa, I'm going to be picking on you because if I'm a parent that doesn't know
how to get ready for this, you said you practiced at home.
(15:43):
Where'd you get the resources?
How did you do that?
You can get everything online.
So I literally printed, so they do like releases of tests.
So I printed like the 2017 ACT test.
They're free.
And that's what we would do.
You know, I would sit down with him and have him time him for the math.
(16:03):
Because again, like Amy said, when you get to know the format of the test, that's half
of the battle.
When you know, you know, there's very concrete things on the ACT that will happen every single
time no matter what test you're taking.
So just giving Joey that edge of knowing there will always be four reading passages.
(16:23):
You know, some of the math, most of the math actually on that test to get a 22, you can,
you know, by eighth grade, they're going to have a couple, you know, upper level pre-calc
on there.
But the format was huge for him.
And yeah, I remember that drilling drilling for the SAT.
(16:45):
It was remember if you don't answer a question and I don't know, say CT, but that doesn't
count against you if you don't answer it at all.
Like that was one tip that stuck with me for that test back then.
Please don't take my word for it now.
I don't know that that's true.
But that idea was like that is important because we try to answer every question, right?
(17:06):
And on the ACT you do answer every single question.
I actually ran out of time taking my math section.
And so I picked one letter and I went all the way down to make sure every single bubble
was filled in.
And ironically, statistically, I was more likely to get one of them right on the math
section.
That's true.
One out of four.
(17:27):
Right.
25% chance.
That's true, right?
If you don't know, but or you have a reasonably can guess it's between one or two, then you
have a 50% chance.
I was just the logic of taking a test, I guess.
And our students, I'm sure are good at taking tests by the time they're in high school.
But it's a different animal, right?
(17:51):
What's hanging out there in my mind is that we say a lot that our students are not a number
on a test, right?
They're a full thing.
And we've said that it's not required for admission.
So we talk about around having around experience and being able to take that with you to college.
That is true, right?
(18:12):
You're nodding.
But also this test matters.
Like this is one that if you're going to take one, this is one to take and it matters.
Can we talk maybe about that experience here and that maybe this is going beyond this discussion
but what college prep looks like around the ACT, right?
There's other things that matter.
(18:33):
But this matters too.
Yeah, so absolutely.
We have taken a very serious approach this year in terms of how we approach all of our
testing, you know, and really focusing on our messaging towards that.
And you'll see more of our more of that messaging coming out, you know, for our parents, our
parents, our families, coming out leading up to everything that we're doing.
(18:59):
We also, as I mentioned before, we tied in these practice tests with our Horizon and
we progress monitor.
So ultimately, our students are taking three practice tests in their freshman year, three
in their sophomore year, and two by the time they actually take the test in the spring,
their junior year for the ACT.
(19:19):
So they're getting some practice testing in.
It also helps us say, okay, are we on track?
Are our students on track for what we're doing?
But we know based on what we see because we are evaluated as part of, you know, this is
part of our achievement score on our report card, as part of our growth score on our report
card and how students are performing on tests like this, we also know that we need to do
(19:45):
better, right?
We know that we need to do better for all of our students and really part of that is
a new program called On to College that we're starting to implement throughout the school
this year.
That's really going to help our students in some of the content information, some of the
skill information, but also a lot of the test taking strategies that go along with that
(20:09):
too.
So that's going to be an important part of every student's experience as they go through
school because it's really, it is our job, right?
We have a responsibility to prepare students for what's coming next in their life and for
some of them it's the ACT tests or pre-ACT tests.
(20:31):
And we need to make sure that students understand how important that is, but we also need to
give them and prepare them with the skills necessary to succeed and achieve at highest
levels and that's for every student that walks in our doors.
So that's part of the reason, but one of the things that we're definitely implementing
is this On to College program.
Donna, you are the expert on that topic.
(20:53):
What is it?
So it's a school-wide test prep program.
It's going to start the first week of the new semester, so after the semester one exams,
and it's going to be this similar test prep to what's available to students now on a volunteer
basis after school.
We're going to be bringing that same test prep into their core classes.
(21:14):
So the math, the English, the science, and the social studies classes will all put aside
some time to do test prep for everyone.
So we're making sure that everyone has access to it.
We're going to cover a lot of things that the other ladies were saying here about it's
not just that you have to know the content going in, you have to be able to answer questions
(21:37):
very quickly because that timed environment can be a high pressure situation for a lot
of students.
So we want to make sure that they have a lot of strategies that are going to allow them
to show what they know, but do so in a very efficient way.
Even like you said, guesses don't count against you, but in situations where you're not sure
what the answer might be, there are a lot of various strategies that you can apply that
(22:00):
allow you to make your best guess and increase the chances that you might get a couple more
questions right, even if you weren't sure what the answer was.
So making sure that every student has access to that and doing so in a way that we selected
a program that is very accessible to all students, whether they're students with special needs
or students who are English language learners or students who may not have been very successful
(22:25):
in school.
It covers a lot of content in all of the core areas, it refreshes things that maybe students
really hadn't learned explicitly for two or three years.
It goes back to middle school skills that we're assumed to have, but really need to
be fresh in your mind.
So we're going to be starting that in January.
It'll last through February and the first week of March right up until the students
(22:49):
take the test.
And I'm really glad that you mentioned like all students because it's easy to talk about
the kids who do really well and getting them these really high scores.
And yes, that's important, but I think we don't want to forget that sometimes students
may have struggled academically and with their GPAs for a lot of different reasons.
(23:11):
And sometimes we get their test scores back and it's just wow.
And I want to make sure that they also have an opportunity to show those colleges like,
hey, I might have been struggling with my grades and whatever else I have going on,
but like I can show this test score and I am very capable of achieving it and not just
(23:35):
looking at the kids who have historically done well will continue to do well, but really
have an opportunity for everybody to show what they can do.
Absolutely.
It's really going to help those students who have some test anxiety because it really helps
build confidence.
And like Mike said, we do practice going back to the early grades and in high school we
(23:57):
practice three times a year in every grade, but it really gives them concrete strategies
that they can hold onto if they do get nervous or if they do blackout and there's a lot of
repetition.
The program that we use is very interactive.
So students go through the test prep and they get immediate explanations when they don't
get the right answer.
They go through why this answer is better than this other answer.
(24:21):
So it's not going to take a lot of time away from the course, but it's really going to
not only give them the test prep, but it's all related to what they're studying in their
courieries anyway, so it's all connected.
You mentioned the program.
Is it online?
Like on to college?
What is it?
Is it booklets?
It is an online program.
(24:43):
There'll be videos that students watch.
They'll have workbooks that they work through.
The videos go through detailed test questions in each of the core subtests and they present
the questions.
They give students an opportunity to come up with an answer and then the facilitator kind
of explains everything that they might want to know about that question.
(25:05):
And then they include strategies on how you would know this is the right answer or if
you needed to guess, here's a strategy that you would use.
And it goes through each of those samples in each of those four subtests and then gives
them a chance to do their own practice questions.
Fascinating.
And then Mike, you had said there's one, you get the one free through school, but if you
(25:27):
don't do well or you think you could do better, you can take it again, right?
Yeah.
The one free is offered spring of their junior year through the state of Wisconsin.
It's always recommended and we talk to all students really about having, taking the opportunity
to take the test really should be starting no later than probably spring of your sophomore
(25:53):
year.
So the test is seven times a year, I think is offered at various schools in the area.
Spring of the sophomore year is like the latest I would start taking the test, then taking
it again, like fall of your junior year, fall, winter, depending what's, you know, the more
(26:14):
times you take it, the better you're going to be at taking the test too.
But we know that that's, that's not possible for all students.
We know how many students that we have that are, I mean, whether you're busy working or
you're busy with sports and you're busy with a lot of other things, sometimes that's not
possible, which is why it's great that there is one opportunity at least for everyone to
(26:36):
take it.
And sometimes that score, you know, satisfies whatever that student wants to go and do and
or be later on, but really taking it multiple times, you can really only improve your, your
odds of succeeding at a higher level.
Yeah.
So it's your best score, right?
(26:57):
That's, so if you take it the second time and you do poorly, the first score counts,
right?
Right.
Yeah.
So your best score essentially to students is really what's, or to schools that are,
that are out there.
So I think you can report all of them to the schools.
You don't, you don't have to, but on the ACT you actually can choose universities to send,
(27:22):
have the scores sent to if you want to.
It's not a requirement, but it's something that you can do.
Yeah.
And one thing, I don't know if we hit on, maybe we did before I turned the mic on.
I don't remember now, but was it that not necessary for admission, but it could save
students time and money once they're in school, right?
(27:46):
Yeah.
In college.
Yeah.
There's some placement pieces too.
So if you have a certain score on the ACT or specifically with English, reading, math,
that you would be placed in an actual college level course.
Whereas if you don't, haven't performed it that way, you either have to take a placement
(28:06):
test that costs money to see, which is really a similar test that one you already got for
free that you'd have to take to be able to see if you could place into that.
If you don't, or if that's not an option, you could have to take a course that is a
remedial level, you know, not a college credit earning course and pay hundreds of dollars
(28:31):
for that course as well on top of it too.
That doesn't count towards any degrees, you know, whether it be associate's degrees or
bachelor's degrees or anything like that.
It just really kind of extends your stay and maybe you might have to come in the summertime
and you know, I don't know any student that wants to go to college necessarily between
summer and fall of their, after their senior year.
(28:53):
And sometimes there's limits on that.
So with the nursing program, it's a 16 on the ACT on the reading section, or you can
take an Accuplacer test, but you can only take that twice.
And if you don't pass it in either of those two times, you have to wait a year before
you're allowed to take it again.
(29:15):
Or you take one of those remedial reading courses.
Right.
And you're in college and you're taking a class, so you don't have the room in your
schedule and you're paying for it and it doesn't count.
Yeah.
So then your two year degree or four year degree becomes a five or six year degree or
just becomes longer and have more debt and.
(29:36):
Sure.
And Melissa, you'd said about scholarships too.
This matters, right?
I mean, can you talk a little bit about your experience with that?
So we're just starting to get into the scholarship journey with Joe.
Like I said, step one was doing all the applications and getting in.
Now we're starting that.
And they want to know, you know, they these places have the money, but they want to make
(29:59):
sure whoever they're giving the money to is actually going to use it and be successful
with it.
So so far, all of the scholarships, the applications that we've applied for, he has to list his
ACT score.
The other thing I'll say about ACT score that I'm learning as well, it's called a super
score.
(30:19):
So not all colleges, not all scholarships accept a super score, but because Joe took
it multiple times, if that's an option, he can actually choose the top scores for each
of the four tests to submit.
Oh, interesting.
Okay.
Across all experiences.
So yeah.
So out of all of the ACT tests that he took, he can pick his highest reading, math, English,
(30:44):
science, and then that he can submit.
Got it.
Oh, interesting.
So those not weren't wasted effort because he got better at taking the test, but also
they all counted for him.
Yeah.
So final thoughts, words of advice to parents that are listening to this and just getting
(31:04):
to know the ACT or to our students who are getting ready to take it.
Don't be scared.
Be prepared.
I like that you said that about Joe that he wasn't nervous.
He was confident walking in.
I don't want this to be scary.
(31:26):
I would say that parents should expect more from the school in terms of messaging, in
terms of just providing more information on onto college because they can actually see
that.
And actually that's a program they can do at home too.
So we're going to do it specifically here in school at certain during in certain classes
(31:49):
during the course of the day.
But it's something also that there's more than what we're providing to the program,
even in school that they would be able to do at home.
So there's even a larger opportunity to dig really dig deep into this and be really prepared
when that test day comes in in March.
(32:10):
And really it's all part of the journey for all of our students to be able to see what
they can do.
I think a lot of students we run into and we have conversations with don't necessarily
believe that they can achieve what they actually can achieve.
And something like this and being prepared for something like this, when you get that
(32:31):
score back and it's higher than what you thought you were going to get or how you it really
gives a student a real sense of accomplishment throughout that.
Even though it's just one piece of information, it's something that says, hey, I did this,
I can do this, I have the ability to do this, I know this stuff.
(32:56):
And I think that's an important piece to it.
So being prepared for all those things, you know, practice, take advantage of all the
opportunities that you have out there and really just be ready for all of the things
that are possible for you because of what you can achieve on this assessment.
(33:24):
I want to thank our panelists for helping expand our understanding of the importance
of the ACT and to you for listening to the SMY podcast.
If you have a suggestion for an upcoming episode, I'd love to hear it.
Email info at sdsm.k12.wi.us with your suggestion and we'll see you next time on the SMY podcast.
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