June 9, 2025 • 58 mins
Josh and Dana suffered the unimaginable loss of two newborn sons, born four years apart. In this episode, they share honestly how they're surviving the grief and unanswered questions, and why their resolve to live for Christ is stronger than ever.
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:00):
Welcome to a special bonus episode of the Snapshot Testimony Podcast.
I'm your host, Ali Domercant. In this podcast, I ask
my guests to share one pivotal moment that shaped their
faith in Christ. In this episode, you're going to meet
Josh and Dana, married for almost seven years. They're clinging
to Jesus as they've faced unimaginable tragedy the loss of
(00:23):
two newborn sons. Judah lived just a couple of hours
before the Lord took him home. Four years later, their
second son, Levi, was born perfectly healthy, yet passed away
without medical explanation just days after coming home from the hospital.
This episode's release date June 8th, 2025, marks one year
(00:45):
since Levi's death. Josh and Dana wanted to share their
story to honor the lives of their boys, who've made
a profound impact even though their time on Earth was
so brief. They also want to share the hope they've
found in Christ with others going through deep, deep pain.
This is a tough episode, but I'm honored that they've
(01:06):
entrusted me with something so sacred. Here's a snapshot testimony
from Josh and Dana. How did the two of you meet?
And I think it's best to start with the with
the woman for this for this question. Dana, how did
(01:27):
you and Josh meet?
S2 (01:29):
So, yeah, this takes us back to several several years ago. Um,
Josh went to college with one of my older sisters. Um,
they became really good friends. And, um, my sister had mentioned, um,
Josh to me because her and I are super close.
And so, um, we just started a phone friendship, um,
(01:54):
and kind of just stayed in touch throughout the years. Um,
and then I was actually wrapping up my MBA several
years ago. Um, and I knew Josh lived in the
Chicago area. Um, I was actually in Portland, Oregon. Um,
and I was just ready for something new, ready to
leave of the Portland city area and go to a
(02:18):
bigger city. Um, our paths crossed and started dating, and
here we are.
S1 (02:24):
That's awesome. Uh, Josh, how quickly did you know that
Dana was going to be your wife? How quickly did
you make that realization?
S3 (02:33):
I knew something was special about her very early on,
and I think it was both when we were both
in a good position where where we wanted to kind
of reach out and where I reached out to her,
I could just tell something was completely different about her.
And the biggest attraction for me, of course, was her faith.
Of course, many other aspects as well. But I knew
that she was a hard find, a unique find, and
(02:54):
so I wanted to make sure she was my find.
And so from there, it all kind of worked out
and pulled her into Illinois a little bit. She was
ready to move and it was kind of the perfect storm.
And the rest is history.
S1 (03:05):
Yeah. Now married. How many years?
S2 (03:08):
Almost seven in November.
S1 (03:10):
Almost seven. So, Dana, did you know right away that
you wanted to have children? Was that a desire of
your heart from the very beginning?
S2 (03:18):
Yes, definitely. I think that was a conversation that occurred
even before marriage, when we were, you know, dating, engaged. Um,
we shared that mutual desire of saying we want children. Um,
we want that blessing. Um, I actually come from a
very big family where six siblings.
S1 (03:38):
Wow.
S2 (03:39):
So I, you know, I have that special sense of family,
and I know what that is. I know what it
is to have lots of kids around. Sure.
S1 (03:52):
Josh, what about you? Did you know immediately like this
is we want. We want children.
S3 (03:58):
Yeah, I knew I wanted children right away. And the
more I got to know Dana, the more I knew
it was a very safe thing to do with both
of us being, you know, focusing on God, focusing on
the faith, very similar personalities, which is kind of interesting
when we go through those, you know, those those marriage
books and things like that. We realized that we were, uh,
very closely linked. Kids were always part of our our plan.
(04:21):
We both wanted kids for, for a long time. And
I grew up with two older brothers, and we always
had many friends running around the house. So I felt like, um,
if God wanted to bless us with those, uh, with
1 or 2 or maybe three kids, then we would
both be ready to hit the ground running.
S1 (04:37):
Dana, talk a little bit about, um, what that journey
was like for you of, you know, some of the
challenges of even getting pregnant. I mean, for, for for
so many women, the, you know, the the idea is that, okay,
I'm ready and it happens, but your journey was was
a little bit more difficult.
S2 (04:59):
Yeah. Um. You're right, Ali, that, um, as women, we're like,
when we're ready, we're like, oh, it's going to happen today. Yeah. Um, and, um,
it's not quite like that. And I think that we
learned in different ways that it wasn't like that. It
wasn't our story. Um, it wasn't our story. It took
(05:24):
a bit longer than what we definitely expected. Um, you know,
and we went through some losses, too. Um, and so
the journey hasn't been easy. You know, we go from
the desires, the the planning, the the dreaming, you know,
(05:46):
with Josh, um, and then going to reality, um, which
has taken a whole different story. Yeah.
S1 (05:56):
Now, when you. When you became pregnant with your son Judah. Um,
take me to that. The the moment when you when
you first realized that that we're expecting. Um. What was
that like?
S2 (06:09):
Yeah. No, um, excitement. I mean, like, I, we were
looking at the pregnancy test, the take home. So it
was just like those first glimpses of, like, is there.
Is there a baby? Am I pregnant? Yeah. Just a
lot of excitement. Um, and then when we found out
(06:32):
we were having a boy, it was just like we're
having a boy. We're. We're just so ecstatic. Um, you know,
Josh comes from all boys in his family. Um, and so,
you know, Josh was super, ultra excited, uh, that thought
(06:52):
we were starting off the family with a boy. Yeah. Um,
so it was just very special time. Um, I mean,
we immediately started, um, brainstorming on names and just visualizing
how life was going to look like with Judah.
S1 (07:09):
Uh, and Josh, at what point in the pregnancy did
you become aware that there was any sort of issue
or concern?
S3 (07:19):
Yeah. So when when Dana was at the house and so, um,
she was she was at the house. And at that
point she actually went into work that day. But before that,
she had a lot of heavy cramping, and she started
to feel a little bit upset in there. And she
kind of played it off because she's a strong, strong lady.
And she ended up going into work. And then she
(07:40):
started to text me saying, hey, something doesn't necessarily feel right.
I'm starting to, you know, get different types of cramping.
And when she, you know, clearly. So she started to
have some signs of some trouble taking place. And so
when I started to hear this would be a text,
I said I wouldn't wait on this, I wouldn't. And
we and we analyzed everything. What kind of food did
(08:02):
we have yesterday? What kind? You know, you're looking at
every other possible way. And she and she was describing
this and I said, no, I think we need to.
You either come home right away and we go into
the ER or you go into the ER, whatever works best.
We need to figure this out. It doesn't sound at
least what I've read about. Right. So again that how
much you know, does a husband know in terms of
(08:22):
the feelings and things like that. Right. We can't correlate
but but at least what we were reading and and
so forth. So anyways, we ended up going into the
hospital that was close by during this was during Covid period.
So they weren't letting um, men go in as they
weren't considered, unfortunately, essential in the pregnancy process. And so
I was staying in the car. She went inside. And so, um,
(08:45):
he was she was texting me saying the nurse came
in and they said, I must be going through a miscarriage.
You know, it was almost to 20 weeks. And so
once they kind of determined that whatever we're having, um,
would most likely not make it, that's when they allowed
me to to go in. From there, we ended up
(09:07):
going into another room, and then they did a lot
of testing, all that kind of stuff. And, um, they
indicated that it must have been his. His foot must
have breached the cervix area, which brought her into labor
quicker than she would like to be in. Yeah. Um,
so at that point, through many, you know, ten, 12
hours later, we were in there. They were trying to
(09:27):
do a lot of different procedures to maybe, possibly save
the baby because he was actually alive, which was a
miracle at that point. There wasn't anything wrong with his body. Um,
at that point, we were transferred to other hospitals, and
then they allowed my parents to come up as well
during Covid period to see because of the extraordinary circumstance
(09:48):
that he was going to be born. At that point
we were in and I were praying and talking and
so forth. We said, okay. We started to come up
with names for for boys and girls, right?
S1 (09:57):
Yeah.
S3 (09:57):
And so, you know, we started circling around at this
point once we learned that he wasn't going to make it. Um,
we said, you know, she said, well, how about Judah?
And I really didn't like the name Judah because it
was too close to Judas. I was like, yeah, I
don't like it. It's too close. Um, but again, Judah
being the, you know, the country in which most leaders,
biblical leaders came from, of course, the the, the tribes
(10:20):
as well. Um, we said, sure, let's let's do that.
And so he actually ended up coming out alive, moving up.
He was with us for about 2.5 hours or so
during that time. My parents were there. I come from
a singing family, so a lot of us. So at
that point, my parents were around and we had many
different songs that we wanted to sing while Judah was there.
(10:43):
One of them was it is well within our soul,
knowing that the end Could be any minute. Could be
any hour. The nurses were amazed. They would come back
every 20 minutes. They couldn't believe he was still alive.
His heartbeat was still alive because that defied science. He
wasn't supposed to be born alive, and he wasn't supposed
to be living after that. Um, and so we held them.
(11:06):
The grandparents were able to. His grandparents were able to
meet him. Um, during the Covid period, we sang many
different songs. We had brought a lot of scripture out,
started talking about, um, you know, there's a few verses
in there that we actually put on his tombstone later. Um,
but one was talking about, you know, where Jesus said,
don't hinder the children for let them come to the
(11:28):
kingdom of heaven, let them come to us. And that
was one we held on to. And there was a
chaplain there with us that we asked many questions to.
And one of them was, how do we know if
our children are going to go to heaven or not?
You know, and and the chaplain at that point said, well,
your children never had a chance to choose. Shoes. And
so at this point, we thought, boy, did Judah find
(11:49):
a shortcut to heaven or what? You're born quickly. You're
only with family. You're only around songs, and then you
go to heaven. There was no pain. There was no
suffering for him in terms of, you know, he never
had to worry about finding the perfect soulmate. He never
had to worry about getting, you know, good grades in college.
(12:10):
He never worried about finances. He never had to worry
about illness. He never had to worry about any of
these things. And so, in a way, you can look
at that as a blessing for him. Clearly, we wish
we had much more time with him, and that wasn't
the picture or what we had, but that was kind
of what. And then of course, soon later, um, after
we left the hospital and again, at that point, it
(12:30):
would seem like our heart was kind of ripped out
of our, you know, chest. And you could just, you know,
you get that whiplash of what did we just go through?
What is this? What did this really happen? Was this
a dream? Like, how could something like this happen and
be with such a small statistic of people that have
had born children pass in front of them. Um, which
(12:53):
they consider that through science and doctors is considered the
hardest emotional loss on earth. Is losing a child more
than losing a spouse or losing. You even call that
a lot of times worse than terminal illness in terms
of what a person goes through, because it's your own kin.
It's not yourself where you feel you might have lived
a longer life, or you might have lived to a
(13:13):
full potential. So the song that came on after we left, we,
the first song we put on. Do you remember the
name of that song, honey?
S2 (13:19):
I want to say it's going to be okay.
S3 (13:22):
Yeah, it's called Going to Be okay. It's a Christian song. Yeah,
you might have had her on this podcast.
S2 (13:28):
But Tasha Layton.
S1 (13:30):
Oh yeah, I know the song you're talking about, Dana,
as you started to grapple with delivering him and he
you get a couple hours with him, but with each
passing moment, you you know that you you're only going
to get a little bit of time. How did you
even begin to process that?
S2 (13:52):
Yeah. Um, I mean. Because it was so unexpected. I
don't even think that there was any such preparation.
S1 (14:04):
Sure.
S2 (14:05):
Um, besides saying God help us. Yeah. Um, you know,
reaching out to family and say, pray for us. Pray
for a miracle. Um, now, you know, when we were
having some honest conversations with the medical team and realizing
(14:27):
that there was nothing that could be done for Judah,
it was one of those feelings of, are we going
to be able to hold them? Are we, you know,
so you go through, you know, those thoughts like, how
long are we going to have with Judah? How is
that going to look like? And and so it was
(14:49):
just holding on to each other. And I and I
think that, um, you know, going back to how Josh
started our conversation of, uh, what we appreciated about each other.
And it was our faith, right? And I think those
values and traits of our faith were coming through this
(15:12):
hardest time. And we're showing our true colors, um, of saying,
who are we going to hold on to? And I
think it was pushing each other to the corner of saying,
what do we have? We have each other and we
have God and we have family. And that's the only
thing we do have. Um, and just honing into that
and just riding the wave as much as we could, um,
(15:37):
kind of having those honest questions with God and with
each other. Of saying why?
S1 (15:44):
Yeah.
S2 (15:45):
Why now? Why this way.
S1 (15:49):
Now. As you're, you know, kind of reeling from just
the absolute heartbreak of of losing your child. It was
Judah was 20 weeks, uh, 20 weeks into your pregnancy. Correct?
S2 (16:03):
Yes. Um.
S1 (16:04):
At at what point did you even start the conversation of,
do we want to try for more children? I mean,
how long before that even became part of the conversation?
After after saying goodbye to Judah?
S2 (16:21):
Yeah. Uh, several months later? Um, I mean, it was
definitely an emotional roller coaster of. Hey, we were prepping
for Judah. We were going through the ultrasounds. We were, um,
having our appointments. Nothing was wrong. And then we go
(16:43):
to delivering and then not having a baby after 2.5 hours.
So lots of quick changes that it was like what
did just happen? Right. Um, and, you know, it was
it was definitely a shock. Um, so it took some
time to really understand, like what just had happened and
(17:07):
then to start to think, hey, my heart is ready
for another baby. And, you know, kind of like carving
out again our desires and plans and dreams and how
that would look like.
S3 (17:22):
Um, and I think one thing that we had confidence in, too.
We said it's such a small percentage of people in
the world that have something like this happen. It could
never happen again. There is no chance that this. So
this was a fluke and let's, You know, that's, you know,
we're ready for another another child. You know, we stuck together.
(17:43):
We we we understood how I mean, this was a
test of us, right? A lot a lot of families,
a lot of couples. They don't make it through things
like this together at the end. And they start questioning.
They start pointing fingers. They start when there's no fingers
to point. And for us, we looked at it and
we said, I mean, we were tested and we both
held on to each other. We both held on to
(18:05):
the faith. We both looked to God and things because
the doctors didn't have answers. The best medical facilities didn't
have answers. Our family doesn't have answers. And so at
that point, you're really at the mercy of God. You're
really at the mercy of looking to someone that knows
more than you do that also lost a son and
(18:26):
that that you can, you know, learn from. So it's
really I don't I can't I will never understand someone
going through this without having faith because I don't know
what they hold on to.
S1 (18:37):
Yeah.
S3 (18:38):
So that's what kept us together. And we were strong
and sturdy. And we said, if we can go through this,
we can go through anything. Yeah. And so that really
helped harden us to get to the next step of
looking at kids again.
S1 (18:52):
And so Dana, you find out that you're that you're pregnant.
S2 (18:55):
Yeah. Yeah. Again, um, I do want to share that
between Judah and, you know, Levi, who we're going to
be talking about next. Um, we did have two miscarriages. Okay. Um,
and that wasn't easy.
S1 (19:15):
No.
S2 (19:16):
At all. Especially that we went through such a traumatic
loss with Judah. Very unexpected. And so with, you know,
additional two miscarriages just kind of added on even more
layers of what's happening. Again, questioning why us.
S1 (19:36):
Yeah.
S2 (19:37):
You know, um. Yeah. And kind of just, I guess,
leaning on each other and supporting each other. So, um,
we pushed through. We got pregnant again, um, with Levi. Um, uh,
(19:57):
everything was perfect. All of our ultrasounds. He was very healthy, kicking, growing. Um,
Josh was able to participate in those appointments. Not like Judah,
where it was during Covid. He was not allowed. Um,
so this was definitely such a beautiful moment that we
(20:20):
were able to share together, um, and, um, see it firsthand,
both of us, you know, hear his heartbeat, then, you know,
have the extensive ultrasound where we could see all his
body parts and really see the miracle of life. Um,
and really learning. Truly. How much, um, you know, God
(20:44):
took into all these different layers of developing life and, um,
you know, giving us life. Um.
S1 (20:53):
You carried Levi to term is my understanding.
S2 (20:57):
Yes. Close to 40 weeks. I got induced, um, just
because they they wanted the everything to be perfect and delivered.
Everything went wonderful. Um, you know, obviously, we can't hide that.
I was in a lot of pain, but I think
that's just part of the journey of, um, you know,
(21:19):
being a mom and delivering. And, um, it was such
a joy. Um, you know, when we started to hear
his first cries and to be able to hold them
immediately after, um, it was just such a beautiful moment.
S1 (21:36):
Yeah. And, Josh, you got to hold Levi. What were
your initial thoughts as you're as you're holding your your
baby boy when you. What was that moment like for you?
S3 (21:50):
Yeah. No, I it was a beautiful moment. I, you
could almost because, you know, we've been on a long journey.
So it was for me to get to a point
where we actually had a baby in front of us
full term. I said, wow, this is, you know, Hallelujah.
This is a this is great. This is wonderful. And
of course, I'm doing the dad thing, so I'm checking. Okay.
Two ears, two nostrils. You got two arms. We're good,
(22:14):
you know. So I'm checking everything. And, uh, you know,
going through the checklist, I guess my mental checklist of. Hey,
he looks pretty healthy. He looks. Everything's good. He's got
quite the lungs screaming right at the very beginning. So
he'll probably be a tenor singer or something like that.
Who knows? And, uh, but it was great just holding
holding on to him and, and, you know, walking with him.
(22:34):
And of course, I was taking videos, um, of kind of,
you know, looking at, you know, what he's going through,
what he's experiencing, how he's looking at the world, how
he's looking at everything. So it was it was a
dream come true. And I just want to take a
step back a little bit. You know, when we talked
about Judah and and coming finally to a name for Judah,
we had the same challenge, right? With Levi. We had
(22:55):
so many names, right. 5 or 10. You know, I'm
throwing out names left and right, so as, so as Dana.
But the interesting part is that we find, I mean,
we're throwing out all different names. We finally settled on Levi,
and by the time he was, you know, by the
time he was here, we did not know. Even though
both of us have gone to church our whole life,
we had no clue. It took us this long to
(23:16):
get Judah and Levi's. And we're very decisive people. So
for us, this is unusual. And we had no idea
that Levi and Judah were brothers in the Bible, even
though we've been to church.
S1 (23:26):
Oh.
S3 (23:28):
So it's really the provincial hand of God saying, hey,
we're really creating the names, but are we really creating
the names?
S1 (23:33):
Yeah.
S3 (23:34):
You know, we think it's us, right? Um, but there's
a lot of God winks with Levi and Judah, but, um,
but yeah, it was just a special moment when he,
when he first came and being able to walk around
the room with him and just, you know, sit back
and say, wow, hey, he's got, you know, your nose,
my eyes, whatever. Right. And we kind of go through that.
So it was a beautiful moment.
S1 (23:53):
Yeah. How how many days before they said, okay, you
can you can take Levi home?
S2 (24:00):
Sure. Um, so Levi was born on June 1st. Um,
and it was in the evening that he was born. Um,
so we were sent home on the third afternoon. Um.
Very excited. Um, we were able to just leave the
(24:21):
hospital just fine. Um, just feeling really excited to be
a family of three. I even told Josh, hey, we're
the Three Musketeers. Now, um, very excited. Just being a
small little family. Starting a new, um, page here. Just
spent a lot of time here at home. Those few
(24:42):
first hours. I even remember being in our master bedroom
with Levi and just kind of looking out with him.
And I began to talk to him about creation. Um. Wow. Um, just,
you know, really taking the time of cherishing those moments. Um,
(25:03):
you know, we waited so long, and, you know, I
carried him for, you know, um, full term and and
so I was just so excited to see him outside
the womb and just be able to hold him in
my arms. So it was just so beautiful.
S1 (25:20):
When you look down at his, at his little face. What, uh,
what did he look like? His. His hair, his eyes?
Did you get a sense in those first few days.
Who does? Who does he look like?
S2 (25:32):
Well, probably Josh and I will argue here, but who
he looks like. But, um, I would say he probably
has a blend between our noses. And. Josh, please chime in. Um, um,
I know that Josh was saying that he felt like
his eyes were kind of more like this gray, dark,
(25:55):
deep gray.
S3 (25:58):
Or dark blue? Dark blue and. Okay.
S2 (26:00):
Yeah. Um, so just a blend there. So I really
curious how his eyes turned out. Um, you know, as
babies grow, they change the colors, you know? And then
his hair was actually dark. Um, I did start seeing
little ringlets on the side, so I'm naturally curly. Okay. Um,
(26:25):
so I, I think he would have had curly hair. Yeah. Um.
S1 (26:32):
Josh, any disagreement on who he looked like or.
S3 (26:37):
Yeah. No, I think he, uh. Yeah, I think she
nailed it. I think, uh, he had his lips. He
had my probably my neck, my forehead, my, you know,
those kind of. It was a nice blend. I mean, yeah,
he I always kind of say he had hair between, uh,
Johnny Cash and Elvis. Kind of combination. Very thick, dark,
curly hair, full head of hair, which the nurses and
(26:58):
of course, there was there was a lot more. I
think there was a lot more female nurses that were
attending to him than needed to be. But again, he
was he was really bringing him in and they, they, they,
they liked attending to him. So, uh, so I was
very pleased as the father with it. With my son. Yes.
S1 (27:14):
So no. Did he follow the typical newborn pattern of,
you know, pretty much just sleeping and crying and eating
and filling his diapers?
S2 (27:24):
Yes, yes. I want to say it was the second day. Yeah,
the second day. Um, I mean, he cried the whole
entire time, um, where he just wanted, wanted to be held. And,
you know, we were fine with that. Um, so. Yeah.
(27:45):
So Josh and I definitely tag team because, you know,
there there was times in there where I was like,
I was just exhausted. Yeah. Um, you know, from delivering,
you know, feeding. Sure. So it was this was a
team effort for sure.
S1 (28:02):
Yeah. Did you have any anxiety around, you know, like,
is everything okay? Like, did those, did those thoughts creep
up at all of the worry, the concern that often
accompanies being a new parent? Or did you feel like
you pretty quickly sort of settled, settled in?
S2 (28:21):
I definitely would say for me, I felt at peace
and I felt super excited and everything was perfect. Um,
I mean, there were no concerns. You know, he he
was checked all his vitals, and the doctors were saying
he was great. And the nurses, um, even throughout the
(28:46):
different appointments, we also got the different reassurance throughout the pregnancy.
And so I just kept feeling like it's good. We're okay. Yeah.
Nothing's going to happen. Um, and throughout the pregnancy, I
think there's hesitation just because of what happened with Judah
and the two other miscarriages. Yeah. Um, and I think
(29:10):
that once we got closer, we're like, oh, we're we're good. We're.
Why are we hesitant? We're good. And we've been reassured
throughout the entire pregnancy. And, you know, even after giving birth,
like he was good. There was zero zero concerns.
S1 (29:27):
Yeah. So, Josh, when was the first indication that there
was any sort of concern at all or. Or was there?
S3 (29:38):
Yeah, there wasn't any. There wasn't any pre-existing conditions or
anything that, uh, he passed all the testing within, um,
the hospital of flying colors. Everything from his, you know,
his his heart, his brain, everything, um, speech. Everything. Uh,
vitals were were passing with flying colors. And then, of course,
they discharged us probably as quick as they could have. Um,
(29:59):
we stayed there for a little while just because they
knew of our case with with Judah. And so then
they released us, and then we came home and, um,
of course, you know, we're walking him around. I'm, I'm, uh,
you know, doing my, my dad duties, giving, you know,
getting him used to my voice and singing for him
and here and there just kind of, uh, so he
(30:20):
gets used to my variations here and there. And same with, uh,
Dane Dana a little bit. And then it was, uh,
then in the middle of the night, um, I think
it was around 1230 or or one, um, Dana woke
me up and, uh, she said that, uh, Levi was unresponsive.
And at that point, I'm half asleep saying, uh. What?
(30:44):
And I felt like I was still in a dream
at that point. And so I'm, you know, half asleep.
I quickly turned on the light and, you know, rewind.
Two weeks before that, um, many years ago, I was
a lifeguard where I had to know CPR decades ago.
And two weeks before we had Levi, there was a
(31:04):
refresher course that that came up. And we're like, you
know what? I don't think I need this. You know,
it's been I had this long time ago. We'll never
have to use this. Why? Little did I know that
two weeks after that I would be using that on
my own, son. And so when he was unresponsive and
limp at that point. His skin was starting to discolor
(31:26):
and turn from white to flush yellow. And so I'm thinking,
what's this? Jaundice. What's going on? But of course, he
wasn't breathing at that point. So at that point he says, hey, Josh,
you know CPR. You know, went to the class and
so quickly, I'm kind of getting out of my cloudiness
of just waking up. And so I immediately took him
off the bed and put him on the ground. And
(31:46):
I still have images today on a daily basis of
what that looked like, of having your son kind of
lifeless in front of you, in which he was very
active the day before and the day before that. Um,
and so I started to do the pumping and all that.
And Dana quickly called 911. And I didn't even know
Dana left because she was actually proactively going to open
(32:09):
the door. And of course, our dogs going nuts because,
you know, 1230 in the morning, she's shuffling around. I
had no idea. So I was there, you know, doing
the the pumping and then, of course, the breathing to
my son Based on what I learned two weeks ago
from a refresher course that I wasn't expecting, nor did
I want to go to because I thought it might
not be that valuable for me. But it was. And
(32:30):
so I kept doing that. And within probably a few minutes,
you know, the streets just lit up. You had you
had law enforcement there, you had ambulances there, you had
everything there. The whole street is lined up at about
1:00 in the morning. Dana quickly opened the door. Of course,
our dog is going nuts, right? Is barking and they
have all these people running in, and he's he's, uh, going,
(32:51):
you know, crazy. And then they get to me and
they see me pumping, and I look over and I see,
you know, three guys there, and they said, okay, keep
keep blowing. We'll start pumping, keep blowing, we'll start pumping.
And then eventually, you know, the process is ready to
hand it over to them. And then they do both
the pumping and that. And I'm just kind of looking
back at that point thinking like, what is what is
going on here? Um, and they kept pumping and pumping again,
(33:14):
no expression, no, no reaction at that point. And then
they ended up taking him out to the ambulance there.
And of course, Ben and I are walking and, you know,
we feel like the whole, you know, our our heart
sank again. Right? And we're just, you know, at that point,
you're all adrenaline. You have no idea. You know, you're
just so we're sitting out on the ambulance for at
least 10 or 15 minutes. They're still pumping and pumping
and pumping on him. Um, at that point, no pulse, nothing. Um,
(33:39):
no breathing yet. And so the ambulance goes. We follow
the ambulance, we go to the hospital. Um, we ended
up arriving there first. And of course, we were greeted
by the chaplain, which is never a good thing when
the first person to greet you at the hospital is
the chaplain. So, of course, they made contact, I'm sure, with,
(34:00):
with them saying we're going to be on the way
to the hospital, meet these folks there. Um, and at
that point, um, kind of rewinding a second before that,
before we left to go to the hospital, I always
remember this, that this, the screech That a mother makes
when her son or daughter doesn't have a heartbeat is
(34:25):
is a, um, it's a cry like no other. And
especially when she fluctuates between English and Spanish, which she
didn't remember, that she started speaking in Spanish at that point. Um,
praying and crying to to God at all. Saying not again, Lord,
not again. How can this happen again? And now, rewinding
(34:48):
back to or fast forwarding back to the hospital. When
we were there, we were talking to the lady there.
And of course, after that, law enforcement comes in and
they have to do their checklist like, okay, we heard
you say, not again there. What do you mean by that?
I'm like, oh geez, I don't need to answer these
questions right now. This is not the right time to answer. Yeah.
And then we had explained the Judas story and then
(35:09):
and then this. And they said, okay, perfect. I got
what I need. You have nothing to see here. And, uh,
then Levi arrived and they said When we are able
to get his heartbeat going again, um, in the ambulance
ride afterwards and the folks that were in that ambulance,
they were done with their shift. All they had to
do was just hand over, right hand over Levi. And
(35:30):
then all of a sudden the emergency team within the
hospital starts working on it. But they stood around waiting
and watching, and they wanted to see the outcome of this,
because when they were picking up Levi from our house,
you could see the people that do this for a living.
They had their hands behind their head. Some of them
are hyperventilating when they were walking out because all of
them envision their own child in front of them. That happening.
(35:50):
And so you could tell all of them felt just awful. And, and, um,
when they were pumping him, you could almost if they
were saying words, what you could almost hear them saying is,
this child is going to die on my watch. We're
going to do everything we can. Um, because they could
see their children right through our child. And and, um,
(36:13):
nothing hurts worse than losing a child. And so they
worked hard on them. They ended up getting his heartbeat back.
Of course, at this point, his heart rate and everything
was kind of really off right when he came back.
Once you're done for 20 minutes, it's a it's a
miracle you're actually going to come back. And if you
come back, you never really know what you're going to
get at that point. And at that point, you know,
he went through probably 50, 60 seizures in front of
(36:35):
us up at that hospital, as well as the other
two hospitals we ended up going to. Um, throughout that week. Um,
but there were a lot of and I know Dana
can fill in too. There were even God never prevents
bad things from happening. But he's with you if you
allow him to be with you through the storm. And
(36:55):
that's one thing I learned through this, is you still
have to ask him. To come in in your darkest hours.
But when you do, he's there. Um, the nurses that
were working on him said that with within the hours
(37:16):
that he was well, within the days he was alive.
He was loved by more people in a short period
of time than most people are loved in their entire lives.
S1 (37:22):
Wow.
S3 (37:23):
And. We had a neurosurgeon too, that said, boy, I
love your name, Levi, because I'm a Levite. And from Israel.
Where her? Where she was from, the neurosurgeon that was
working on him. He had little God winks that said, um.
(37:43):
You know, no matter what you're seeing in front of you,
I'm still here with you. And, um, it was, you know,
he wasn't supposed to come back at 20, 20 minutes later.
He wasn't supposed to give us another week with him.
But both of our kids, Judah and Levi, are fighters,
and they love longer there. And they were supposed to.
They met their older family members, at least most of
(38:05):
their family members, when they were alive. Um. And even
during that time that same that the police officers that
were on the scene when they first got here, I
would get calls about every other day from the police chief.
And of course, anytime you get a call from the police, right, like, okay,
what's going on here? And they said, we just called
to see how Levi's doing. We're all rooting for him
(38:29):
and we're all behind you. So there's a lot of
unusual things that happen that week. Um. So. But God
was there. And.
S1 (38:48):
Dana, you got another week with Levi, and then the
Lord took him. And to even say those words, you go. No.
How is that even possible? It's just it's not ever
(39:10):
supposed to happen that way once, let alone twice. It's
just not supposed to be that way. And I cannot
even fathom. I mean, as someone who is meeting you
today for the first time and feeling the gravity of no, no, no,
(39:31):
this cannot be. Did you. What did you. Could you
even open your mouth to pray? Did you? What was
your what was it like between you and God in
(39:51):
those in those moments?
S2 (39:55):
Wow. Um. I in those moments, we were praying for
a miracle.
S1 (40:04):
Yeah.
S2 (40:05):
We're praying for a miracle. Um, everything was happening so
fast that I think, too, that you're going with the motions,
but at the same time you just feel like what
is going on.
S1 (40:21):
Yeah.
S2 (40:22):
Um, I mean, I had just delivered and I am
recovering from delivery. So even my body is like, going through, um,
its changes as well, that it was just a lot
happening and quickly. And there was no time to rest.
(40:43):
There was no time to think differently of anything else.
I was just saying, God, we we just need a miracle.
We just want Levi back. Um, we just want him
here with us. Um, that's the only thing that we wanted.
(41:08):
And that's what we prayed for. it and we knew
exactly who to go to. Um, for a miracle. And
who's the giver of life? And, um, and just trying
to see what we could do and, um, you know,
asking for God to give the doctors wisdom of, you know,
whatever else they could do to intervene. Um, and I
(41:31):
think that was the only thing that we were able
to really, really, um, hold on to and try to trust.
S1 (41:40):
Um, you know, you think about the scriptures that talk
about God being near to the brokenhearted and saving those
who are crushed in spirit. And it's hard to think
of a more brokenhearted, crushed in spirit kind of moment
than what you were experiencing. Did you feel the nearness
(42:03):
of God at all? Was that any sort of a
reality to you, or did it take time for that
to become a reality.
S2 (42:12):
I think in the moment when Levi was here, um,
I don't think I questioned whether he was near or nigh.
I think that I was just praying. I was pressing in. I, I,
I was doing what we call, um, you know, and
we tapped into family, friends, people at church. Um, you know,
(42:36):
there was different churches that we knew that were praying
for Levi. So I think that we felt the presence
of God embracing us. So I don't think for me,
I didn't question whether God was present. Um, I think
that after everything happened and after Levi went to heaven,
(43:02):
it just felt like, why? Why us? That's when the
questions really began of why us? Why this way?
S1 (43:15):
Yeah.
S2 (43:16):
Why? God?
S1 (43:18):
Yeah.
S2 (43:19):
And I think that's where that space began to develop
of just a little bit more questions of like, why, God? Why?
S1 (43:30):
Yeah. Josh, what about you?
S3 (43:35):
I would say living through half the story of job
is hard.
S1 (43:38):
Mhm.
S3 (43:39):
Um. And it's, it's kind of amazing. I would say
in general, when you're in the storm, you feel like
you're fighting it on your own sometimes. Right. Dana and
I hunker down. We got in the trenches and we
said we need to support each other and all that.
We knew God was there. Um, but of course, when
(43:59):
we're in the moments and we're getting updates every ten minutes,
15 minutes. Oh, here's another seizure. Oh, here's another this,
another like this. You feel like, you know, it's his parents.
It's your responsibility to make a lot of quick decisions
on the fly and to see what other what other
things can we do? What other. Testing do we need
(44:20):
to have done? What other blood samples. What other? And
they're taking our DNA samples. They're taking everyone. I mean,
it's just samples after samples after testing, after things like that.
And so, you know, at this point, you feel completely
and there's no control. There's absolutely for for me, the
sense is a father to be completely without any sort
(44:44):
of you feel utterly helpless. You can't do anything. It's
out of your reach. It's out of your family's reach.
It's out of the doctor's reach, even to to a
significant portion. And so you start up the rug from
underneath you very quickly. And so you realize at this point,
what what are the facts that we have and what
(45:05):
decisions can we make based on what we know? And
you get right down to a very pragmatic decision making
while still praying as well. And so, um, again, there's
a lot of people touched by Levi's story. And Judah's
around the world, both within the US and abroad, that
heard our story. There was more than 20 churches praying
for us that we didn't know that, um, across that time,
(45:27):
we were, um, you know, I was posting some things
on Facebook here and there, you know, and, and a
lot of people's lives were touched and people were looking
to faith and haven't looked to faith before in their
lives because of what we were going through. And we
were just living out the way we knew how to.
And it's, you know, and, uh, so his testimony, you know,
(45:48):
those losses became our testimony. And it's not a club
you want to be part of. It's the involuntary club, right,
that no one chooses to be part of. Yeah, but
it's one that that becomes who you are. And, um,
even after. when Levi passed. One thing before he passed
(46:09):
that I thought was worth highlighting is, um, Dan and
I had a prayer. I think it was the this
is probably the one of the hardest prayers of parents
can do. But after Levi went through so much right,
and we were talking with the doctors and I said,
have you ever seen children come back after all this
happened to them? And they say very small percentage that
actually do come back, but they're never the same and
(46:31):
they're hardly ever able to support themselves in the future.
And so Dan and I that evening probably was the
hardest prayer. And we said, we're going to wake up
tomorrow and give Levi all the love we can. Um,
we're going to pour it on. We're going to be faithful.
We're going to be happy. And we're going to pray
(46:54):
for two things. One, a full miracle or two for heaven.
So in a way, God answered that prayer. So after
he went to heaven. Um, I guess I wasn't expecting
(47:16):
to write two eulogies for my sons within four years
apart and get used to writing eulogies. That's something that
a parent should never get used to for their kids,
writing their eulogies and actually being able to do it
without any feeling on the second time, just to be
able to hunker down and do it. But through his eulogies,
it touched people. Um, based on the symbolic meaning of
(47:39):
his names and their names together. And even after the
funeral was done, um, Dana's dad is a pastor, actually. And, uh,
at a Spanish Mennonite church out in Oregon. Um, very
well renowned up there. And he was going on a sabbatical,
and he asked me, he goes, hey, you know, I
was taking a doctoral classes and I still went to
my residency, I think a month or two after Levi
(48:00):
passed And he said, would you like to? You know,
we were just talking. Would you like to preach? So
I preached on job and mentioned my two sons during that,
and I wouldn't have ever expected to do that. Um,
but I think it ever since then, you see how
God worked in jobs life. You see how there's he
(48:20):
never answered the question of why those things happen to job, right?
He never answered why he negotiated in the beginning to
allow things to happen. But he was very, um, confident
because he knew the outcome before it happened. He knew
how job would react. And I like to think that
(48:41):
he knew how we would react before it happened, or
how that we would stay strong and faithful through him.
And I think through those stories and those testimonies, this
became our testimony. And there is no way you can
be in the middle on faith after something like this.
You're either all or nothing. And and I think it
pushed us all to. this is your purpose even more
(49:01):
than what it was before. It's time to get off
the bench and in the game, and it's time to
to really make a difference. Um, for the for the
last half of your life.
S1 (49:11):
But, Dana, do you do you agree? When Josh said it, um,
this either pushes you to all in or or no
faith at all. Do you agree?
S2 (49:23):
Yeah. Um, I definitely agree. And, you know, it just brings, like,
a different lens, um, where you're really filtering, like, okay,
what's the most valuable, um, piece in my life? What's
worth really fighting um, for? Um, um, kind of reprioritize
(49:47):
all of that, um, you know, um, prioritizing our faith,
living for God. Um, it just brings a different passion. Um.
with everything that we've been through, it just kind of
just brings something new.
S1 (50:05):
Yeah. And the one year anniversary of of Levi's passing
is in June. Is that correct?
S2 (50:13):
Yes. Uh, so it's June 8th. Mhm.
S1 (50:18):
And so I know doing a, a podcast like this,
having to revisit all of those, you know, the heartbreak,
the pain, the just the, there's not enough words to
kind of describe what you've gone through over the last year.
And it really even 4 or 5 years. What, what
(50:39):
compelled you or or gave you the freedom to feel
like this is something that I'm at least open to
sharing with, with the world?
S2 (50:52):
Yeah. Go ahead. Josh.
S3 (50:54):
Well, I think it goes back to the why. Right.
And it's figuring out why did this happen to us,
and what kind of message or testimony can this bring
to others. Folks that are folks that are going through
a rough time, their values. Right. And everyone's family is different.
Some are much deeper than others. Some are much more shallow.
And if this brings people to faith, if this strengthens
their faith, and we've heard from countless people of all faiths,
(51:15):
whether it's Christianity or even a whole nother religion, not
even denomination, but a whole nother religion of saying, I
don't know what you have in you, but we want
it and and we're not sure we could have gone
through this and been on the other side like you are. Um,
it had meaning. They both had purpose. And it makes
heaven much more tangible and real for us than it's
(51:35):
ever been before. So if we're here tomorrow or we're
up there tomorrow, it's a win win for both of us.
And we've got as much family up there as we
have here, maybe even more in our immediate family up there.
So I feel like sharing this, his story, sharing, you know,
the faith and saying never lose faith. If we've gone
through this, you can go through whatever you're going through, um,
(51:57):
no matter what their circumstances are. Um, I would just
say the folks that are questioning faith, um, I would say,
I would say hold on to faith, because at the
end of the day, that's all you have. Um, you've
got close. Even if you have close family, things like that,
we're all going to end up one place or another
when we pass. And if we spend so much time
(52:18):
on career, if we spend so much time on health,
we spend so much time on on finances. Um, and
we're going to spend the rest of eternity, thousands of years.
We're only going to be here less than 100 years
for most of us. Why wouldn't we want to spend
more time studying and learning about the place we're going
to be for thousands of years, rather than a short
snippet of a life that we're going to be less
than 100 years. So, you know, put your faith in
(52:41):
the person that made us. Those are my parting words.
S1 (52:46):
Dana, what would be your parting words if if anything?
S2 (52:53):
You know, um. coming in in a year. I and
I was reflecting on it, you know, just thinking about
the podcast. And it has not been easy. Um, there
are seasons where, uh, I guess I feel like I'm
(53:17):
dipped in a cup of love and I feel God
around me all the time. And then there's seasons where
I'm just like, okay, it's silent. And then I'm like, okay, God,
I really need to hear you today.
S1 (53:27):
Um, thanks for being honest about that. I think that's
probably helpful for people to hear. That's that's not sort
of a linear.
S2 (53:34):
No path.
S1 (53:35):
Out of of grief and. Right. Yeah. Go ahead. I
didn't mean to interrupt.
S4 (53:40):
Yeah. Um.
S2 (53:42):
And you know, something that, uh, I've been learning in
the last year is, um, and actually, this is through
Josh that I've been learning that, Being in lament is okay. Um,
and I, we're both optimists, and I think I've always
(54:04):
tried to seem like the the blessings. Like where I'm
always focused on the blessings.
S4 (54:10):
Okay.
S2 (54:11):
Yeah. Um, the the positives, you know, kind of seeing
the other side, always trying to look at things from
a different angle, the better side of things. Um, but
in the last year, it's kind of given that opportunity
to be like, you know what? Let's be real. Let's
let's be real. Let's be real with God. Let's be
(54:31):
real with, um, it's hard. It's not easy.
S4 (54:37):
Yeah.
S2 (54:38):
Humans. Um, we just lost two of our babies that
were born alive that we were hoping for. We were
dreaming for, um. And we just lost again. Dreams and
hopes and plans. And the only thing that we could
(54:59):
do is press into God and be real with him
so he can meet us where we're at. Um, so
I think it's it's been, you know, a season of
just kind of learning of it's okay to be real
and say, I'm in fire and then be real with saying, hey.
(55:21):
And then I feel those days and what Josh talked
about and in earlier of then saying, hey, I see God's,
you know, um, kind of little winks where I see
God speaking to me today, or I feel like he
just heard my conversation and he's reassuring me here. Yeah. Um,
(55:43):
so I think there's been both sides. Um, and so
I think it's expected and I think it's learning how
to press in as much as like there are days
where we don't want to sing. There's days where we
don't want to pray, there's days where we don't want anything,
but then there's days where we're just like, we just
really need to sit in God's Word. We're just really
(56:06):
need to sit in and just try to hear God today.
That's the only thing that we need and want.
S1 (56:14):
Yeah. Is there anything else that either one of you
feel like you we may have missed? Or maybe a
question I didn't ask?
S3 (56:25):
No. I guess the only thing I would say is that,
you know, when people have losses, right? And there's all
different types of loss, right? We know that, you know,
when when a parent dies too early, when a sibling
dies from unknown reasons, when a child dies of very quick, um, movements,
things like that. There's so many questions that will always
be unanswered. Right. And whether it's the doctors, whether it's
(56:48):
sometimes we sometimes we hear from God right away. Sometimes
we don't. We don't. We don't have any idea how
long Jobe had to wait and how patient he had
to be to to actually maybe get halfway answers from
some of those, those challenges. And so I would just
say getting used to not knowing the answers is the
(57:08):
struggle for me, but that's the struggle that a lot
of people have. And it's just being finding a way
to be content with not having hardly any answers to
unknown things. And it's a muscle that gets built when
you least expect it. And it's something that some people
like myself, even have, probably have a hard time the
rest of my life with. But, um, there's so much
(57:29):
that's unexplained in why life happens and why it doesn't
happen the way we expected, and why certain folks are
saved and why others aren't. And there's no real answer
for that that we'll ever hear. Um, why is, you know,
there's all these questions, right? It's why, why, why does
pain happen unequivocally to some couples and statistically more than
(57:49):
all other couples. And keep happening without answers. There's no
there's no answer for that. Right. So it's kind of
being okay with the unknown being okay that things don't
make sense. And that's the only person that can make
sense of it. Really, at the end of the day,
is God. No matter how smart a person is, no
matter how intelligent they are, the doctors couldn't figure it
(58:11):
out half the time. And and the other I mean,
it just shows how limited we are as humans of
knowing the full picture. No matter how hard or how
intelligent we are. Only one person has, and that's God. Yeah.
S1 (58:24):
So I want to thank you both for for your
willingness to do this. And for I know that there
will be people who will will hear it, and it
will be exactly what they what they need to hear.
And so your courage and being willing to to share
this and to open up your hearts, um, I just
(58:46):
want to sincerely thank you.
Welcome to a special bonus episode of the Snapshot Testimony Podcast.
I'm your host, Ali Domercant. In this podcast, I ask
my guests to share one pivotal moment that shaped their
faith in Christ. In this episode, you're going to meet
Josh and Dana, married for almost seven years. They're clinging
to Jesus as they've faced unimaginable tragedy the loss of
(00:23):
two newborn sons. Judah lived just a couple of hours
before the Lord took him home. Four years later, their
second son, Levi, was born perfectly healthy, yet passed away
without medical explanation just days after coming home from the hospital.
This episode's release date June 8th, 2025, marks one year
(00:45):
since Levi's death. Josh and Dana wanted to share their
story to honor the lives of their boys, who've made
a profound impact even though their time on Earth was
so brief. They also want to share the hope they've
found in Christ with others going through deep, deep pain.
This is a tough episode, but I'm honored that they've
(01:06):
entrusted me with something so sacred. Here's a snapshot testimony
from Josh and Dana. How did the two of you meet?
And I think it's best to start with the with
the woman for this for this question. Dana, how did
(01:27):
you and Josh meet?
S2 (01:29):
So, yeah, this takes us back to several several years ago. Um,
Josh went to college with one of my older sisters. Um,
they became really good friends. And, um, my sister had mentioned, um,
Josh to me because her and I are super close.
And so, um, we just started a phone friendship, um,
(01:54):
and kind of just stayed in touch throughout the years. Um,
and then I was actually wrapping up my MBA several
years ago. Um, and I knew Josh lived in the
Chicago area. Um, I was actually in Portland, Oregon. Um,
and I was just ready for something new, ready to
leave of the Portland city area and go to a
(02:18):
bigger city. Um, our paths crossed and started dating, and
here we are.
S1 (02:24):
That's awesome. Uh, Josh, how quickly did you know that
Dana was going to be your wife? How quickly did
you make that realization?
S3 (02:33):
I knew something was special about her very early on,
and I think it was both when we were both
in a good position where where we wanted to kind
of reach out and where I reached out to her,
I could just tell something was completely different about her.
And the biggest attraction for me, of course, was her faith.
Of course, many other aspects as well. But I knew
that she was a hard find, a unique find, and
(02:54):
so I wanted to make sure she was my find.
And so from there, it all kind of worked out
and pulled her into Illinois a little bit. She was
ready to move and it was kind of the perfect storm.
And the rest is history.
S1 (03:05):
Yeah. Now married. How many years?
S2 (03:08):
Almost seven in November.
S1 (03:10):
Almost seven. So, Dana, did you know right away that
you wanted to have children? Was that a desire of
your heart from the very beginning?
S2 (03:18):
Yes, definitely. I think that was a conversation that occurred
even before marriage, when we were, you know, dating, engaged. Um,
we shared that mutual desire of saying we want children. Um,
we want that blessing. Um, I actually come from a
very big family where six siblings.
S1 (03:38):
Wow.
S2 (03:39):
So I, you know, I have that special sense of family,
and I know what that is. I know what it
is to have lots of kids around. Sure.
S1 (03:52):
Josh, what about you? Did you know immediately like this
is we want. We want children.
S3 (03:58):
Yeah, I knew I wanted children right away. And the
more I got to know Dana, the more I knew
it was a very safe thing to do with both
of us being, you know, focusing on God, focusing on
the faith, very similar personalities, which is kind of interesting
when we go through those, you know, those those marriage
books and things like that. We realized that we were, uh,
very closely linked. Kids were always part of our our plan.
(04:21):
We both wanted kids for, for a long time. And
I grew up with two older brothers, and we always
had many friends running around the house. So I felt like, um,
if God wanted to bless us with those, uh, with
1 or 2 or maybe three kids, then we would
both be ready to hit the ground running.
S1 (04:37):
Dana, talk a little bit about, um, what that journey
was like for you of, you know, some of the
challenges of even getting pregnant. I mean, for, for for
so many women, the, you know, the the idea is that, okay,
I'm ready and it happens, but your journey was was
a little bit more difficult.
S2 (04:59):
Yeah. Um. You're right, Ali, that, um, as women, we're like,
when we're ready, we're like, oh, it's going to happen today. Yeah. Um, and, um,
it's not quite like that. And I think that we
learned in different ways that it wasn't like that. It
wasn't our story. Um, it wasn't our story. It took
(05:24):
a bit longer than what we definitely expected. Um, you know,
and we went through some losses, too. Um, and so
the journey hasn't been easy. You know, we go from
the desires, the the planning, the the dreaming, you know,
(05:46):
with Josh, um, and then going to reality, um, which
has taken a whole different story. Yeah.
S1 (05:56):
Now, when you. When you became pregnant with your son Judah. Um,
take me to that. The the moment when you when
you first realized that that we're expecting. Um. What was
that like?
S2 (06:09):
Yeah. No, um, excitement. I mean, like, I, we were
looking at the pregnancy test, the take home. So it
was just like those first glimpses of, like, is there.
Is there a baby? Am I pregnant? Yeah. Just a
lot of excitement. Um, and then when we found out
(06:32):
we were having a boy, it was just like we're
having a boy. We're. We're just so ecstatic. Um, you know,
Josh comes from all boys in his family. Um, and so,
you know, Josh was super, ultra excited, uh, that thought
(06:52):
we were starting off the family with a boy. Yeah. Um,
so it was just very special time. Um, I mean,
we immediately started, um, brainstorming on names and just visualizing
how life was going to look like with Judah.
S1 (07:09):
Uh, and Josh, at what point in the pregnancy did
you become aware that there was any sort of issue
or concern?
S3 (07:19):
Yeah. So when when Dana was at the house and so, um,
she was she was at the house. And at that
point she actually went into work that day. But before that,
she had a lot of heavy cramping, and she started
to feel a little bit upset in there. And she
kind of played it off because she's a strong, strong lady.
And she ended up going into work. And then she
(07:40):
started to text me saying, hey, something doesn't necessarily feel right.
I'm starting to, you know, get different types of cramping.
And when she, you know, clearly. So she started to
have some signs of some trouble taking place. And so
when I started to hear this would be a text,
I said I wouldn't wait on this, I wouldn't. And
we and we analyzed everything. What kind of food did
(08:02):
we have yesterday? What kind? You know, you're looking at
every other possible way. And she and she was describing
this and I said, no, I think we need to.
You either come home right away and we go into
the ER or you go into the ER, whatever works best.
We need to figure this out. It doesn't sound at
least what I've read about. Right. So again that how
much you know, does a husband know in terms of
(08:22):
the feelings and things like that. Right. We can't correlate
but but at least what we were reading and and
so forth. So anyways, we ended up going into the
hospital that was close by during this was during Covid period.
So they weren't letting um, men go in as they
weren't considered, unfortunately, essential in the pregnancy process. And so
I was staying in the car. She went inside. And so, um,
(08:45):
he was she was texting me saying the nurse came
in and they said, I must be going through a miscarriage.
You know, it was almost to 20 weeks. And so
once they kind of determined that whatever we're having, um,
would most likely not make it, that's when they allowed
me to to go in. From there, we ended up
(09:07):
going into another room, and then they did a lot
of testing, all that kind of stuff. And, um, they
indicated that it must have been his. His foot must
have breached the cervix area, which brought her into labor
quicker than she would like to be in. Yeah. Um,
so at that point, through many, you know, ten, 12
hours later, we were in there. They were trying to
(09:27):
do a lot of different procedures to maybe, possibly save
the baby because he was actually alive, which was a
miracle at that point. There wasn't anything wrong with his body. Um,
at that point, we were transferred to other hospitals, and
then they allowed my parents to come up as well
during Covid period to see because of the extraordinary circumstance
(09:48):
that he was going to be born. At that point
we were in and I were praying and talking and
so forth. We said, okay. We started to come up
with names for for boys and girls, right?
S1 (09:57):
Yeah.
S3 (09:57):
And so, you know, we started circling around at this
point once we learned that he wasn't going to make it. Um,
we said, you know, she said, well, how about Judah?
And I really didn't like the name Judah because it
was too close to Judas. I was like, yeah, I
don't like it. It's too close. Um, but again, Judah
being the, you know, the country in which most leaders,
biblical leaders came from, of course, the the, the tribes
(10:20):
as well. Um, we said, sure, let's let's do that.
And so he actually ended up coming out alive, moving up.
He was with us for about 2.5 hours or so
during that time. My parents were there. I come from
a singing family, so a lot of us. So at
that point, my parents were around and we had many
different songs that we wanted to sing while Judah was there.
(10:43):
One of them was it is well within our soul,
knowing that the end Could be any minute. Could be
any hour. The nurses were amazed. They would come back
every 20 minutes. They couldn't believe he was still alive.
His heartbeat was still alive because that defied science. He
wasn't supposed to be born alive, and he wasn't supposed
to be living after that. Um, and so we held them.
(11:06):
The grandparents were able to. His grandparents were able to
meet him. Um, during the Covid period, we sang many
different songs. We had brought a lot of scripture out,
started talking about, um, you know, there's a few verses
in there that we actually put on his tombstone later. Um,
but one was talking about, you know, where Jesus said,
don't hinder the children for let them come to the
(11:28):
kingdom of heaven, let them come to us. And that
was one we held on to. And there was a
chaplain there with us that we asked many questions to.
And one of them was, how do we know if
our children are going to go to heaven or not?
You know, and and the chaplain at that point said, well,
your children never had a chance to choose. Shoes. And
so at this point, we thought, boy, did Judah find
(11:49):
a shortcut to heaven or what? You're born quickly. You're
only with family. You're only around songs, and then you
go to heaven. There was no pain. There was no
suffering for him in terms of, you know, he never
had to worry about finding the perfect soulmate. He never
had to worry about getting, you know, good grades in college.
(12:10):
He never worried about finances. He never had to worry
about illness. He never had to worry about any of
these things. And so, in a way, you can look
at that as a blessing for him. Clearly, we wish
we had much more time with him, and that wasn't
the picture or what we had, but that was kind
of what. And then of course, soon later, um, after
we left the hospital and again, at that point, it
(12:30):
would seem like our heart was kind of ripped out
of our, you know, chest. And you could just, you know,
you get that whiplash of what did we just go through?
What is this? What did this really happen? Was this
a dream? Like, how could something like this happen and
be with such a small statistic of people that have
had born children pass in front of them. Um, which
(12:53):
they consider that through science and doctors is considered the
hardest emotional loss on earth. Is losing a child more
than losing a spouse or losing. You even call that
a lot of times worse than terminal illness in terms
of what a person goes through, because it's your own kin.
It's not yourself where you feel you might have lived
a longer life, or you might have lived to a
(13:13):
full potential. So the song that came on after we left, we,
the first song we put on. Do you remember the
name of that song, honey?
S2 (13:19):
I want to say it's going to be okay.
S3 (13:22):
Yeah, it's called Going to Be okay. It's a Christian song. Yeah,
you might have had her on this podcast.
S2 (13:28):
But Tasha Layton.
S1 (13:30):
Oh yeah, I know the song you're talking about, Dana,
as you started to grapple with delivering him and he
you get a couple hours with him, but with each
passing moment, you you know that you you're only going
to get a little bit of time. How did you
even begin to process that?
S2 (13:52):
Yeah. Um, I mean. Because it was so unexpected. I
don't even think that there was any such preparation.
S1 (14:04):
Sure.
S2 (14:05):
Um, besides saying God help us. Yeah. Um, you know,
reaching out to family and say, pray for us. Pray
for a miracle. Um, now, you know, when we were
having some honest conversations with the medical team and realizing
(14:27):
that there was nothing that could be done for Judah,
it was one of those feelings of, are we going
to be able to hold them? Are we, you know,
so you go through, you know, those thoughts like, how
long are we going to have with Judah? How is
that going to look like? And and so it was
(14:49):
just holding on to each other. And I and I
think that, um, you know, going back to how Josh
started our conversation of, uh, what we appreciated about each other.
And it was our faith, right? And I think those
values and traits of our faith were coming through this
(15:12):
hardest time. And we're showing our true colors, um, of saying,
who are we going to hold on to? And I
think it was pushing each other to the corner of saying,
what do we have? We have each other and we
have God and we have family. And that's the only
thing we do have. Um, and just honing into that
and just riding the wave as much as we could, um,
(15:37):
kind of having those honest questions with God and with
each other. Of saying why?
S1 (15:44):
Yeah.
S2 (15:45):
Why now? Why this way.
S1 (15:49):
Now. As you're, you know, kind of reeling from just
the absolute heartbreak of of losing your child. It was
Judah was 20 weeks, uh, 20 weeks into your pregnancy. Correct?
S2 (16:03):
Yes. Um.
S1 (16:04):
At at what point did you even start the conversation of,
do we want to try for more children? I mean,
how long before that even became part of the conversation?
After after saying goodbye to Judah?
S2 (16:21):
Yeah. Uh, several months later? Um, I mean, it was
definitely an emotional roller coaster of. Hey, we were prepping
for Judah. We were going through the ultrasounds. We were, um,
having our appointments. Nothing was wrong. And then we go
(16:43):
to delivering and then not having a baby after 2.5 hours.
So lots of quick changes that it was like what
did just happen? Right. Um, and, you know, it was
it was definitely a shock. Um, so it took some
time to really understand, like what just had happened and
(17:07):
then to start to think, hey, my heart is ready
for another baby. And, you know, kind of like carving
out again our desires and plans and dreams and how
that would look like.
S3 (17:22):
Um, and I think one thing that we had confidence in, too.
We said it's such a small percentage of people in
the world that have something like this happen. It could
never happen again. There is no chance that this. So
this was a fluke and let's, You know, that's, you know,
we're ready for another another child. You know, we stuck together.
(17:43):
We we we understood how I mean, this was a
test of us, right? A lot a lot of families,
a lot of couples. They don't make it through things
like this together at the end. And they start questioning.
They start pointing fingers. They start when there's no fingers
to point. And for us, we looked at it and
we said, I mean, we were tested and we both
held on to each other. We both held on to
(18:05):
the faith. We both looked to God and things because
the doctors didn't have answers. The best medical facilities didn't
have answers. Our family doesn't have answers. And so at
that point, you're really at the mercy of God. You're
really at the mercy of looking to someone that knows
more than you do that also lost a son and
(18:26):
that that you can, you know, learn from. So it's
really I don't I can't I will never understand someone
going through this without having faith because I don't know
what they hold on to.
S1 (18:37):
Yeah.
S3 (18:38):
So that's what kept us together. And we were strong
and sturdy. And we said, if we can go through this,
we can go through anything. Yeah. And so that really
helped harden us to get to the next step of
looking at kids again.
S1 (18:52):
And so Dana, you find out that you're that you're pregnant.
S2 (18:55):
Yeah. Yeah. Again, um, I do want to share that
between Judah and, you know, Levi, who we're going to
be talking about next. Um, we did have two miscarriages. Okay. Um,
and that wasn't easy.
S1 (19:15):
No.
S2 (19:16):
At all. Especially that we went through such a traumatic
loss with Judah. Very unexpected. And so with, you know,
additional two miscarriages just kind of added on even more
layers of what's happening. Again, questioning why us.
S1 (19:36):
Yeah.
S2 (19:37):
You know, um. Yeah. And kind of just, I guess,
leaning on each other and supporting each other. So, um,
we pushed through. We got pregnant again, um, with Levi. Um, uh,
(19:57):
everything was perfect. All of our ultrasounds. He was very healthy, kicking, growing. Um,
Josh was able to participate in those appointments. Not like Judah,
where it was during Covid. He was not allowed. Um,
so this was definitely such a beautiful moment that we
(20:20):
were able to share together, um, and, um, see it firsthand,
both of us, you know, hear his heartbeat, then, you know,
have the extensive ultrasound where we could see all his
body parts and really see the miracle of life. Um,
and really learning. Truly. How much, um, you know, God
(20:44):
took into all these different layers of developing life and, um,
you know, giving us life. Um.
S1 (20:53):
You carried Levi to term is my understanding.
S2 (20:57):
Yes. Close to 40 weeks. I got induced, um, just
because they they wanted the everything to be perfect and delivered.
Everything went wonderful. Um, you know, obviously, we can't hide that.
I was in a lot of pain, but I think
that's just part of the journey of, um, you know,
(21:19):
being a mom and delivering. And, um, it was such
a joy. Um, you know, when we started to hear
his first cries and to be able to hold them
immediately after, um, it was just such a beautiful moment.
S1 (21:36):
Yeah. And, Josh, you got to hold Levi. What were
your initial thoughts as you're as you're holding your your
baby boy when you. What was that moment like for you?
S3 (21:50):
Yeah. No, I it was a beautiful moment. I, you
could almost because, you know, we've been on a long journey.
So it was for me to get to a point
where we actually had a baby in front of us
full term. I said, wow, this is, you know, Hallelujah.
This is a this is great. This is wonderful. And
of course, I'm doing the dad thing, so I'm checking. Okay.
Two ears, two nostrils. You got two arms. We're good,
(22:14):
you know. So I'm checking everything. And, uh, you know,
going through the checklist, I guess my mental checklist of. Hey,
he looks pretty healthy. He looks. Everything's good. He's got
quite the lungs screaming right at the very beginning. So
he'll probably be a tenor singer or something like that.
Who knows? And, uh, but it was great just holding
holding on to him and, and, you know, walking with him.
(22:34):
And of course, I was taking videos, um, of kind of,
you know, looking at, you know, what he's going through,
what he's experiencing, how he's looking at the world, how
he's looking at everything. So it was it was a
dream come true. And I just want to take a
step back a little bit. You know, when we talked
about Judah and and coming finally to a name for Judah,
we had the same challenge, right? With Levi. We had
(22:55):
so many names, right. 5 or 10. You know, I'm
throwing out names left and right, so as, so as Dana.
But the interesting part is that we find, I mean,
we're throwing out all different names. We finally settled on Levi,
and by the time he was, you know, by the
time he was here, we did not know. Even though
both of us have gone to church our whole life,
we had no clue. It took us this long to
(23:16):
get Judah and Levi's. And we're very decisive people. So
for us, this is unusual. And we had no idea
that Levi and Judah were brothers in the Bible, even
though we've been to church.
S1 (23:26):
Oh.
S3 (23:28):
So it's really the provincial hand of God saying, hey,
we're really creating the names, but are we really creating
the names?
S1 (23:33):
Yeah.
S3 (23:34):
You know, we think it's us, right? Um, but there's
a lot of God winks with Levi and Judah, but, um,
but yeah, it was just a special moment when he,
when he first came and being able to walk around
the room with him and just, you know, sit back
and say, wow, hey, he's got, you know, your nose,
my eyes, whatever. Right. And we kind of go through that.
So it was a beautiful moment.
S1 (23:53):
Yeah. How how many days before they said, okay, you
can you can take Levi home?
S2 (24:00):
Sure. Um, so Levi was born on June 1st. Um,
and it was in the evening that he was born. Um,
so we were sent home on the third afternoon. Um.
Very excited. Um, we were able to just leave the
(24:21):
hospital just fine. Um, just feeling really excited to be
a family of three. I even told Josh, hey, we're
the Three Musketeers. Now, um, very excited. Just being a
small little family. Starting a new, um, page here. Just
spent a lot of time here at home. Those few
(24:42):
first hours. I even remember being in our master bedroom
with Levi and just kind of looking out with him.
And I began to talk to him about creation. Um. Wow. Um, just,
you know, really taking the time of cherishing those moments. Um,
(25:03):
you know, we waited so long, and, you know, I
carried him for, you know, um, full term and and
so I was just so excited to see him outside
the womb and just be able to hold him in
my arms. So it was just so beautiful.
S1 (25:20):
When you look down at his, at his little face. What, uh,
what did he look like? His. His hair, his eyes?
Did you get a sense in those first few days.
Who does? Who does he look like?
S2 (25:32):
Well, probably Josh and I will argue here, but who
he looks like. But, um, I would say he probably
has a blend between our noses. And. Josh, please chime in. Um, um,
I know that Josh was saying that he felt like
his eyes were kind of more like this gray, dark,
(25:55):
deep gray.
S3 (25:58):
Or dark blue? Dark blue and. Okay.
S2 (26:00):
Yeah. Um, so just a blend there. So I really
curious how his eyes turned out. Um, you know, as
babies grow, they change the colors, you know? And then
his hair was actually dark. Um, I did start seeing
little ringlets on the side, so I'm naturally curly. Okay. Um,
(26:25):
so I, I think he would have had curly hair. Yeah. Um.
S1 (26:32):
Josh, any disagreement on who he looked like or.
S3 (26:37):
Yeah. No, I think he, uh. Yeah, I think she
nailed it. I think, uh, he had his lips. He
had my probably my neck, my forehead, my, you know,
those kind of. It was a nice blend. I mean, yeah,
he I always kind of say he had hair between, uh,
Johnny Cash and Elvis. Kind of combination. Very thick, dark,
curly hair, full head of hair, which the nurses and
(26:58):
of course, there was there was a lot more. I
think there was a lot more female nurses that were
attending to him than needed to be. But again, he
was he was really bringing him in and they, they, they,
they liked attending to him. So, uh, so I was
very pleased as the father with it. With my son. Yes.
S1 (27:14):
So no. Did he follow the typical newborn pattern of,
you know, pretty much just sleeping and crying and eating
and filling his diapers?
S2 (27:24):
Yes, yes. I want to say it was the second day. Yeah,
the second day. Um, I mean, he cried the whole
entire time, um, where he just wanted, wanted to be held. And,
you know, we were fine with that. Um, so. Yeah.
(27:45):
So Josh and I definitely tag team because, you know,
there there was times in there where I was like,
I was just exhausted. Yeah. Um, you know, from delivering,
you know, feeding. Sure. So it was this was a
team effort for sure.
S1 (28:02):
Yeah. Did you have any anxiety around, you know, like,
is everything okay? Like, did those, did those thoughts creep
up at all of the worry, the concern that often
accompanies being a new parent? Or did you feel like
you pretty quickly sort of settled, settled in?
S2 (28:21):
I definitely would say for me, I felt at peace
and I felt super excited and everything was perfect. Um,
I mean, there were no concerns. You know, he he
was checked all his vitals, and the doctors were saying
he was great. And the nurses, um, even throughout the
(28:46):
different appointments, we also got the different reassurance throughout the pregnancy.
And so I just kept feeling like it's good. We're okay. Yeah.
Nothing's going to happen. Um, and throughout the pregnancy, I
think there's hesitation just because of what happened with Judah
and the two other miscarriages. Yeah. Um, and I think
(29:10):
that once we got closer, we're like, oh, we're we're good. We're.
Why are we hesitant? We're good. And we've been reassured
throughout the entire pregnancy. And, you know, even after giving birth,
like he was good. There was zero zero concerns.
S1 (29:27):
Yeah. So, Josh, when was the first indication that there
was any sort of concern at all or. Or was there?
S3 (29:38):
Yeah, there wasn't any. There wasn't any pre-existing conditions or
anything that, uh, he passed all the testing within, um,
the hospital of flying colors. Everything from his, you know,
his his heart, his brain, everything, um, speech. Everything. Uh,
vitals were were passing with flying colors. And then, of course,
they discharged us probably as quick as they could have. Um,
(29:59):
we stayed there for a little while just because they
knew of our case with with Judah. And so then
they released us, and then we came home and, um,
of course, you know, we're walking him around. I'm, I'm, uh,
you know, doing my, my dad duties, giving, you know,
getting him used to my voice and singing for him
and here and there just kind of, uh, so he
(30:20):
gets used to my variations here and there. And same with, uh,
Dane Dana a little bit. And then it was, uh,
then in the middle of the night, um, I think
it was around 1230 or or one, um, Dana woke
me up and, uh, she said that, uh, Levi was unresponsive.
And at that point, I'm half asleep saying, uh. What?
(30:44):
And I felt like I was still in a dream
at that point. And so I'm, you know, half asleep.
I quickly turned on the light and, you know, rewind.
Two weeks before that, um, many years ago, I was
a lifeguard where I had to know CPR decades ago.
And two weeks before we had Levi, there was a
(31:04):
refresher course that that came up. And we're like, you
know what? I don't think I need this. You know,
it's been I had this long time ago. We'll never
have to use this. Why? Little did I know that
two weeks after that I would be using that on
my own, son. And so when he was unresponsive and
limp at that point. His skin was starting to discolor
(31:26):
and turn from white to flush yellow. And so I'm thinking,
what's this? Jaundice. What's going on? But of course, he
wasn't breathing at that point. So at that point he says, hey, Josh,
you know CPR. You know, went to the class and
so quickly, I'm kind of getting out of my cloudiness
of just waking up. And so I immediately took him
off the bed and put him on the ground. And
(31:46):
I still have images today on a daily basis of
what that looked like, of having your son kind of
lifeless in front of you, in which he was very
active the day before and the day before that. Um,
and so I started to do the pumping and all that.
And Dana quickly called 911. And I didn't even know
Dana left because she was actually proactively going to open
(32:09):
the door. And of course, our dogs going nuts because,
you know, 1230 in the morning, she's shuffling around. I
had no idea. So I was there, you know, doing
the the pumping and then, of course, the breathing to
my son Based on what I learned two weeks ago
from a refresher course that I wasn't expecting, nor did
I want to go to because I thought it might
not be that valuable for me. But it was. And
(32:30):
so I kept doing that. And within probably a few minutes,
you know, the streets just lit up. You had you
had law enforcement there, you had ambulances there, you had
everything there. The whole street is lined up at about
1:00 in the morning. Dana quickly opened the door. Of course,
our dog is going nuts, right? Is barking and they
have all these people running in, and he's he's, uh, going,
(32:51):
you know, crazy. And then they get to me and
they see me pumping, and I look over and I see,
you know, three guys there, and they said, okay, keep
keep blowing. We'll start pumping, keep blowing, we'll start pumping.
And then eventually, you know, the process is ready to
hand it over to them. And then they do both
the pumping and that. And I'm just kind of looking
back at that point thinking like, what is what is
going on here? Um, and they kept pumping and pumping again,
(33:14):
no expression, no, no reaction at that point. And then
they ended up taking him out to the ambulance there.
And of course, Ben and I are walking and, you know,
we feel like the whole, you know, our our heart
sank again. Right? And we're just, you know, at that point,
you're all adrenaline. You have no idea. You know, you're
just so we're sitting out on the ambulance for at
least 10 or 15 minutes. They're still pumping and pumping
and pumping on him. Um, at that point, no pulse, nothing. Um,
(33:39):
no breathing yet. And so the ambulance goes. We follow
the ambulance, we go to the hospital. Um, we ended
up arriving there first. And of course, we were greeted
by the chaplain, which is never a good thing when
the first person to greet you at the hospital is
the chaplain. So, of course, they made contact, I'm sure, with,
(34:00):
with them saying we're going to be on the way
to the hospital, meet these folks there. Um, and at
that point, um, kind of rewinding a second before that,
before we left to go to the hospital, I always
remember this, that this, the screech That a mother makes
when her son or daughter doesn't have a heartbeat is
(34:25):
is a, um, it's a cry like no other. And
especially when she fluctuates between English and Spanish, which she
didn't remember, that she started speaking in Spanish at that point. Um,
praying and crying to to God at all. Saying not again, Lord,
not again. How can this happen again? And now, rewinding
(34:48):
back to or fast forwarding back to the hospital. When
we were there, we were talking to the lady there.
And of course, after that, law enforcement comes in and
they have to do their checklist like, okay, we heard
you say, not again there. What do you mean by that?
I'm like, oh geez, I don't need to answer these
questions right now. This is not the right time to answer. Yeah.
And then we had explained the Judas story and then
(35:09):
and then this. And they said, okay, perfect. I got
what I need. You have nothing to see here. And, uh,
then Levi arrived and they said When we are able
to get his heartbeat going again, um, in the ambulance
ride afterwards and the folks that were in that ambulance,
they were done with their shift. All they had to
do was just hand over, right hand over Levi. And
(35:30):
then all of a sudden the emergency team within the
hospital starts working on it. But they stood around waiting
and watching, and they wanted to see the outcome of this,
because when they were picking up Levi from our house,
you could see the people that do this for a living.
They had their hands behind their head. Some of them
are hyperventilating when they were walking out because all of
them envision their own child in front of them. That happening.
(35:50):
And so you could tell all of them felt just awful. And, and, um,
when they were pumping him, you could almost if they
were saying words, what you could almost hear them saying is,
this child is going to die on my watch. We're
going to do everything we can. Um, because they could
see their children right through our child. And and, um,
(36:13):
nothing hurts worse than losing a child. And so they
worked hard on them. They ended up getting his heartbeat back.
Of course, at this point, his heart rate and everything
was kind of really off right when he came back.
Once you're done for 20 minutes, it's a it's a
miracle you're actually going to come back. And if you
come back, you never really know what you're going to
get at that point. And at that point, you know,
he went through probably 50, 60 seizures in front of
(36:35):
us up at that hospital, as well as the other
two hospitals we ended up going to. Um, throughout that week. Um,
but there were a lot of and I know Dana
can fill in too. There were even God never prevents
bad things from happening. But he's with you if you
allow him to be with you through the storm. And
(36:55):
that's one thing I learned through this, is you still
have to ask him. To come in in your darkest hours.
But when you do, he's there. Um, the nurses that
were working on him said that with within the hours
(37:16):
that he was well, within the days he was alive.
He was loved by more people in a short period
of time than most people are loved in their entire lives.
S1 (37:22):
Wow.
S3 (37:23):
And. We had a neurosurgeon too, that said, boy, I
love your name, Levi, because I'm a Levite. And from Israel.
Where her? Where she was from, the neurosurgeon that was
working on him. He had little God winks that said, um.
(37:43):
You know, no matter what you're seeing in front of you,
I'm still here with you. And, um, it was, you know,
he wasn't supposed to come back at 20, 20 minutes later.
He wasn't supposed to give us another week with him.
But both of our kids, Judah and Levi, are fighters,
and they love longer there. And they were supposed to.
They met their older family members, at least most of
(38:05):
their family members, when they were alive. Um. And even
during that time that same that the police officers that
were on the scene when they first got here, I
would get calls about every other day from the police chief.
And of course, anytime you get a call from the police, right, like, okay,
what's going on here? And they said, we just called
to see how Levi's doing. We're all rooting for him
(38:29):
and we're all behind you. So there's a lot of
unusual things that happen that week. Um. So. But God
was there. And.
S1 (38:48):
Dana, you got another week with Levi, and then the
Lord took him. And to even say those words, you go. No.
How is that even possible? It's just it's not ever
(39:10):
supposed to happen that way once, let alone twice. It's
just not supposed to be that way. And I cannot
even fathom. I mean, as someone who is meeting you
today for the first time and feeling the gravity of no, no, no,
(39:31):
this cannot be. Did you. What did you. Could you
even open your mouth to pray? Did you? What was
your what was it like between you and God in
(39:51):
those in those moments?
S2 (39:55):
Wow. Um. I in those moments, we were praying for
a miracle.
S1 (40:04):
Yeah.
S2 (40:05):
We're praying for a miracle. Um, everything was happening so
fast that I think, too, that you're going with the motions,
but at the same time you just feel like what
is going on.
S1 (40:21):
Yeah.
S2 (40:22):
Um, I mean, I had just delivered and I am
recovering from delivery. So even my body is like, going through, um,
its changes as well, that it was just a lot
happening and quickly. And there was no time to rest.
(40:43):
There was no time to think differently of anything else.
I was just saying, God, we we just need a miracle.
We just want Levi back. Um, we just want him
here with us. Um, that's the only thing that we wanted.
(41:08):
And that's what we prayed for. it and we knew
exactly who to go to. Um, for a miracle. And
who's the giver of life? And, um, and just trying
to see what we could do and, um, you know,
asking for God to give the doctors wisdom of, you know,
whatever else they could do to intervene. Um, and I
(41:31):
think that was the only thing that we were able
to really, really, um, hold on to and try to trust.
S1 (41:40):
Um, you know, you think about the scriptures that talk
about God being near to the brokenhearted and saving those
who are crushed in spirit. And it's hard to think
of a more brokenhearted, crushed in spirit kind of moment
than what you were experiencing. Did you feel the nearness
(42:03):
of God at all? Was that any sort of a
reality to you, or did it take time for that
to become a reality.
S2 (42:12):
I think in the moment when Levi was here, um,
I don't think I questioned whether he was near or nigh.
I think that I was just praying. I was pressing in. I, I,
I was doing what we call, um, you know, and
we tapped into family, friends, people at church. Um, you know,
(42:36):
there was different churches that we knew that were praying
for Levi. So I think that we felt the presence
of God embracing us. So I don't think for me,
I didn't question whether God was present. Um, I think
that after everything happened and after Levi went to heaven,
(43:02):
it just felt like, why? Why us? That's when the
questions really began of why us? Why this way?
S1 (43:15):
Yeah.
S2 (43:16):
Why? God?
S1 (43:18):
Yeah.
S2 (43:19):
And I think that's where that space began to develop
of just a little bit more questions of like, why, God? Why?
S1 (43:30):
Yeah. Josh, what about you?
S3 (43:35):
I would say living through half the story of job
is hard.
S1 (43:38):
Mhm.
S3 (43:39):
Um. And it's, it's kind of amazing. I would say
in general, when you're in the storm, you feel like
you're fighting it on your own sometimes. Right. Dana and
I hunker down. We got in the trenches and we
said we need to support each other and all that.
We knew God was there. Um, but of course, when
(43:59):
we're in the moments and we're getting updates every ten minutes,
15 minutes. Oh, here's another seizure. Oh, here's another this,
another like this. You feel like, you know, it's his parents.
It's your responsibility to make a lot of quick decisions
on the fly and to see what other what other
things can we do? What other. Testing do we need
(44:20):
to have done? What other blood samples. What other? And
they're taking our DNA samples. They're taking everyone. I mean,
it's just samples after samples after testing, after things like that.
And so, you know, at this point, you feel completely
and there's no control. There's absolutely for for me, the
sense is a father to be completely without any sort
(44:44):
of you feel utterly helpless. You can't do anything. It's
out of your reach. It's out of your family's reach.
It's out of the doctor's reach, even to to a
significant portion. And so you start up the rug from
underneath you very quickly. And so you realize at this point,
what what are the facts that we have and what
(45:05):
decisions can we make based on what we know? And
you get right down to a very pragmatic decision making
while still praying as well. And so, um, again, there's
a lot of people touched by Levi's story. And Judah's
around the world, both within the US and abroad, that
heard our story. There was more than 20 churches praying
for us that we didn't know that, um, across that time,
(45:27):
we were, um, you know, I was posting some things
on Facebook here and there, you know, and, and a
lot of people's lives were touched and people were looking
to faith and haven't looked to faith before in their
lives because of what we were going through. And we
were just living out the way we knew how to.
And it's, you know, and, uh, so his testimony, you know,
(45:48):
those losses became our testimony. And it's not a club
you want to be part of. It's the involuntary club, right,
that no one chooses to be part of. Yeah, but
it's one that that becomes who you are. And, um,
even after. when Levi passed. One thing before he passed
(46:09):
that I thought was worth highlighting is, um, Dan and
I had a prayer. I think it was the this
is probably the one of the hardest prayers of parents
can do. But after Levi went through so much right,
and we were talking with the doctors and I said,
have you ever seen children come back after all this
happened to them? And they say very small percentage that
actually do come back, but they're never the same and
(46:31):
they're hardly ever able to support themselves in the future.
And so Dan and I that evening probably was the
hardest prayer. And we said, we're going to wake up
tomorrow and give Levi all the love we can. Um,
we're going to pour it on. We're going to be faithful.
We're going to be happy. And we're going to pray
(46:54):
for two things. One, a full miracle or two for heaven.
So in a way, God answered that prayer. So after
he went to heaven. Um, I guess I wasn't expecting
(47:16):
to write two eulogies for my sons within four years
apart and get used to writing eulogies. That's something that
a parent should never get used to for their kids,
writing their eulogies and actually being able to do it
without any feeling on the second time, just to be
able to hunker down and do it. But through his eulogies,
it touched people. Um, based on the symbolic meaning of
(47:39):
his names and their names together. And even after the
funeral was done, um, Dana's dad is a pastor, actually. And, uh,
at a Spanish Mennonite church out in Oregon. Um, very
well renowned up there. And he was going on a sabbatical,
and he asked me, he goes, hey, you know, I
was taking a doctoral classes and I still went to
my residency, I think a month or two after Levi
(48:00):
passed And he said, would you like to? You know,
we were just talking. Would you like to preach? So
I preached on job and mentioned my two sons during that,
and I wouldn't have ever expected to do that. Um,
but I think it ever since then, you see how
God worked in jobs life. You see how there's he
(48:20):
never answered the question of why those things happen to job, right?
He never answered why he negotiated in the beginning to
allow things to happen. But he was very, um, confident
because he knew the outcome before it happened. He knew
how job would react. And I like to think that
(48:41):
he knew how we would react before it happened, or
how that we would stay strong and faithful through him.
And I think through those stories and those testimonies, this
became our testimony. And there is no way you can
be in the middle on faith after something like this.
You're either all or nothing. And and I think it
pushed us all to. this is your purpose even more
(49:01):
than what it was before. It's time to get off
the bench and in the game, and it's time to
to really make a difference. Um, for the for the
last half of your life.
S1 (49:11):
But, Dana, do you do you agree? When Josh said it, um,
this either pushes you to all in or or no
faith at all. Do you agree?
S2 (49:23):
Yeah. Um, I definitely agree. And, you know, it just brings, like,
a different lens, um, where you're really filtering, like, okay,
what's the most valuable, um, piece in my life? What's
worth really fighting um, for? Um, um, kind of reprioritize
(49:47):
all of that, um, you know, um, prioritizing our faith,
living for God. Um, it just brings a different passion. Um.
with everything that we've been through, it just kind of
just brings something new.
S1 (50:05):
Yeah. And the one year anniversary of of Levi's passing
is in June. Is that correct?
S2 (50:13):
Yes. Uh, so it's June 8th. Mhm.
S1 (50:18):
And so I know doing a, a podcast like this,
having to revisit all of those, you know, the heartbreak,
the pain, the just the, there's not enough words to
kind of describe what you've gone through over the last year.
And it really even 4 or 5 years. What, what
(50:39):
compelled you or or gave you the freedom to feel
like this is something that I'm at least open to
sharing with, with the world?
S2 (50:52):
Yeah. Go ahead. Josh.
S3 (50:54):
Well, I think it goes back to the why. Right.
And it's figuring out why did this happen to us,
and what kind of message or testimony can this bring
to others. Folks that are folks that are going through
a rough time, their values. Right. And everyone's family is different.
Some are much deeper than others. Some are much more shallow.
And if this brings people to faith, if this strengthens
their faith, and we've heard from countless people of all faiths,
(51:15):
whether it's Christianity or even a whole nother religion, not
even denomination, but a whole nother religion of saying, I
don't know what you have in you, but we want
it and and we're not sure we could have gone
through this and been on the other side like you are. Um,
it had meaning. They both had purpose. And it makes
heaven much more tangible and real for us than it's
(51:35):
ever been before. So if we're here tomorrow or we're
up there tomorrow, it's a win win for both of us.
And we've got as much family up there as we
have here, maybe even more in our immediate family up there.
So I feel like sharing this, his story, sharing, you know,
the faith and saying never lose faith. If we've gone
through this, you can go through whatever you're going through, um,
(51:57):
no matter what their circumstances are. Um, I would just
say the folks that are questioning faith, um, I would say,
I would say hold on to faith, because at the
end of the day, that's all you have. Um, you've
got close. Even if you have close family, things like that,
we're all going to end up one place or another
when we pass. And if we spend so much time
(52:18):
on career, if we spend so much time on health,
we spend so much time on on finances. Um, and
we're going to spend the rest of eternity, thousands of years.
We're only going to be here less than 100 years
for most of us. Why wouldn't we want to spend
more time studying and learning about the place we're going
to be for thousands of years, rather than a short
snippet of a life that we're going to be less
than 100 years. So, you know, put your faith in
(52:41):
the person that made us. Those are my parting words.
S1 (52:46):
Dana, what would be your parting words if if anything?
S2 (52:53):
You know, um. coming in in a year. I and
I was reflecting on it, you know, just thinking about
the podcast. And it has not been easy. Um, there
are seasons where, uh, I guess I feel like I'm
(53:17):
dipped in a cup of love and I feel God
around me all the time. And then there's seasons where
I'm just like, okay, it's silent. And then I'm like, okay, God,
I really need to hear you today.
S1 (53:27):
Um, thanks for being honest about that. I think that's
probably helpful for people to hear. That's that's not sort
of a linear.
S2 (53:34):
No path.
S1 (53:35):
Out of of grief and. Right. Yeah. Go ahead. I
didn't mean to interrupt.
S4 (53:40):
Yeah. Um.
S2 (53:42):
And you know, something that, uh, I've been learning in
the last year is, um, and actually, this is through
Josh that I've been learning that, Being in lament is okay. Um,
and I, we're both optimists, and I think I've always
(54:04):
tried to seem like the the blessings. Like where I'm
always focused on the blessings.
S4 (54:10):
Okay.
S2 (54:11):
Yeah. Um, the the positives, you know, kind of seeing
the other side, always trying to look at things from
a different angle, the better side of things. Um, but
in the last year, it's kind of given that opportunity
to be like, you know what? Let's be real. Let's
let's be real. Let's be real with God. Let's be
(54:31):
real with, um, it's hard. It's not easy.
S4 (54:37):
Yeah.
S2 (54:38):
Humans. Um, we just lost two of our babies that
were born alive that we were hoping for. We were
dreaming for, um. And we just lost again. Dreams and
hopes and plans. And the only thing that we could
(54:59):
do is press into God and be real with him
so he can meet us where we're at. Um, so
I think it's it's been, you know, a season of
just kind of learning of it's okay to be real
and say, I'm in fire and then be real with saying, hey.
(55:21):
And then I feel those days and what Josh talked
about and in earlier of then saying, hey, I see God's,
you know, um, kind of little winks where I see
God speaking to me today, or I feel like he
just heard my conversation and he's reassuring me here. Yeah. Um,
(55:43):
so I think there's been both sides. Um, and so
I think it's expected and I think it's learning how
to press in as much as like there are days
where we don't want to sing. There's days where we
don't want to pray, there's days where we don't want anything,
but then there's days where we're just like, we just
really need to sit in God's Word. We're just really
(56:06):
need to sit in and just try to hear God today.
That's the only thing that we need and want.
S1 (56:14):
Yeah. Is there anything else that either one of you
feel like you we may have missed? Or maybe a
question I didn't ask?
S3 (56:25):
No. I guess the only thing I would say is that,
you know, when people have losses, right? And there's all
different types of loss, right? We know that, you know,
when when a parent dies too early, when a sibling
dies from unknown reasons, when a child dies of very quick, um, movements,
things like that. There's so many questions that will always
be unanswered. Right. And whether it's the doctors, whether it's
(56:48):
sometimes we sometimes we hear from God right away. Sometimes
we don't. We don't. We don't have any idea how
long Jobe had to wait and how patient he had
to be to to actually maybe get halfway answers from
some of those, those challenges. And so I would just
say getting used to not knowing the answers is the
(57:08):
struggle for me, but that's the struggle that a lot
of people have. And it's just being finding a way
to be content with not having hardly any answers to
unknown things. And it's a muscle that gets built when
you least expect it. And it's something that some people
like myself, even have, probably have a hard time the
rest of my life with. But, um, there's so much
(57:29):
that's unexplained in why life happens and why it doesn't
happen the way we expected, and why certain folks are
saved and why others aren't. And there's no real answer
for that that we'll ever hear. Um, why is, you know,
there's all these questions, right? It's why, why, why does
pain happen unequivocally to some couples and statistically more than
(57:49):
all other couples. And keep happening without answers. There's no
there's no answer for that. Right. So it's kind of
being okay with the unknown being okay that things don't
make sense. And that's the only person that can make
sense of it. Really, at the end of the day,
is God. No matter how smart a person is, no
matter how intelligent they are, the doctors couldn't figure it
(58:11):
out half the time. And and the other I mean,
it just shows how limited we are as humans of
knowing the full picture. No matter how hard or how
intelligent we are. Only one person has, and that's God. Yeah.
S1 (58:24):
So I want to thank you both for for your
willingness to do this. And for I know that there
will be people who will will hear it, and it
will be exactly what they what they need to hear.
And so your courage and being willing to to share
this and to open up your hearts, um, I just
(58:46):
want to sincerely thank you.
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