Beyond Blood: How An Open Adoption Shaped Who I Am

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What happens when an adoptee grows up in an open adoption during the 1990s and becomes a children's book author? Sasha Sedman takes us through her remarkable journey, revealing the beautiful complexity of relationships that form when adoption is treated with honesty from the beginning.

Sasha shares the extraordinary story of her birth - how her adoptive mother became friends with her birth mother during pregnancy and was even present in the delivery room. From a wicker bassinet rescued from an alley to Raggedy Ann dolls that connect generations, the physical objects of Sasha's adoption story symbolize the thoughtful ways her families remained connected throughout her life.

The conversation explores the nuanced dynamics between adoptive and birth families, particularly the different comfort levels each person brings to these relationships. Sasha recounts meeting her paternal biological family in her twenties and discovering shared physical traits she'd never experienced before. She articulates the delicate balance of boundaries, explaining how her adoptive parents empowered her with freedom of choice while preparing her for the realities that birth family members might also have their own boundaries.

Most powerfully, Sasha reveals how her adoption experience directly influences her work as a children's author. Her book "First Day: An Adoption Story" provides families with a universal adoption narrative and space to document their unique stories. She also discusses "All Out of Ducks," her humor-filled book about parental exhaustion that incorporates critical maternal mental health resources she wishes she'd had during her own postpartum depression.

The episode culminates with Sasha's wisdom on normalizing diverse family structures and validating the complex emotions that accompany adoption. As she puts it, "Any feelings you have are valid, and any feelings other people have are valid" - a perspective that creates space for honest conversations and deeper connections in all types of families.

Ready to explore the world of open adoption through a storyteller's eyes? Listen now and discover how one author is helping families write their own narratives of belonging.

Music by Curtis Rodgers IG @itsjustcurtis
Produce and Edited by Lisa Sapp
Executive Producer Lisa Sapp
Executive Producer Johnnie Underwood

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:13):
Welcome to the so I'm Adopted podcast, where we talk
everything adoption.
This journey is not one we takealone.
Together, we grapple with rawemotions that surface from
adoption stories.
We want you to be comfortableenough to heal, so sit back and
go with us on this journey as wedive deep into adoption.
Welcome to another episode ofso I'm Adopted.

(00:47):
I'm John.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
And I'm Lisa.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
And we are.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Adopted.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
And again, this is an opportunity and a space where
we wanted to create anopportunity for individuals to
have this safe, where we cantalk about non-traditional
relationships.
As always, I give credit wherecredit is due about
non-traditional relationships.
As always, I give credit wherecredit is due.
Lisa was very consistent andpersistent about us being able
to tell our stories and I think,based on the feedback that we

(01:13):
have gotten, it has been a jewelbecause we've connected with
some amazing individuals.
We've learned that you knowwe're not the only ones and a
lot of times I can't speak forthat.
I won't generalize it.
I know, for me, I felt like myjourney was an isolated one,

(01:33):
like I was the only one that hadever been on or driven past
this island, and what we'velearned is that there are so
many layers to being adopted inthat whole ordeal.
It's like an onion.
There's lots of layers to it.
Lots of layers to it,absolutely.
And I'll be honest, we had asneak peek at our guests for

(01:57):
tonight and it was mind-blowing.
I'm going to tell you right now.
So I'm definitely excited.
We've connected with someamazing individuals.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
We have, and this one is a different angle that we
haven't had the opportunity tohave on the show.
So I'm excited.
I'm very excited about this one.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
So, let's, let's jump in, please.
Before we jump in, we want tothank you for investing the time
.
Hit the like.
Hit the share button.
Hit the like.
Hit the share button.
If you have a adoption story,if you have a non-traditional
relationship, family dynamicstory, please reach out to us.
We are open to the differentdiscussions, because what we're

(02:35):
learning is that the platformsare out there, but we don't know
how to connect the dots, andthat's one of the things that we
want to do.
We've learned about aconference, that that they have
a working group of adoptees thatare out there, so we just want
this to be fruitful for you.
So, lisa, let's go jump in.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
All right, let's let's introduce our guest for
today.
Sasha Sedman is a cherishedvoice children's literature,
weaving tales of wonder andwisdom.
From her home in the vibrantheart of Washington DC area,

(03:24):
alongside her devoted husbandand their two delightful
children, sasha crafts storiesthat celebrate the diverse
tapestry of families, drawingfrom her own unique journey
through life.
Adopted into a loving familythrough an open adoption,
sasha's early experiences hasimbued her with a deep
appreciation for the myriad waysfamilies come together, a theme
that radiates through herenchanting narratives.
Despite facing the challengesof dyslexia, which made the

(03:48):
written words a formidablepuzzle in her youth, sasha, her
indubitably spirit, saw hertranscend these early obstacles.
Her journey from a high schooldropout to a GED achiever stands
as a testament to herresilience and determination,

(04:09):
quality that has guided her pathto become a beloved children's
author.
Sasha Works is more than juststorytelling.
It's an invitation to embracelife's adventures and to find
the joy in every moment.
To embrace life's adventuresand to find the joy in every
moment Her personal mantra tochange what doesn't bring joy

(04:31):
infuses her writing with ainfectious optimism that
encourages young readers to seekhappiness and fulfillment in
their pursuits in their pursuits.
So we want to welcome Ms SashaSedman to our podcast today and

(04:51):
let me go ahead and get her onin so you guys can meet her as
well.
Hello, ms Sasha.

Speaker 3 (04:59):
Hi, how are you guys doing?

Speaker 1 (05:01):
Good.
How are you doing?

Speaker 3 (05:02):
I'm good.
Hopefully no more snow, no morebeing snowed in.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
Listen, I'm back in Florida.

Speaker 3 (05:10):
It is 84 degrees so y'all can have that.
It's about 60 here, so it's nottoo bad, we're getting there,
we're getting there, we'recatching up.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
There you go, we are, I'm jealous.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
So I'm going to tell you right now, even after we had
our conversation a week and ahalf ago and then hearing the
bio, I'm just that much moreexcited about the discussion.
Just, I learned a few otherthings that you didn't share
with us, that you gave in thebio.
So the way we normally startoff, it's a very organic
conversation Tell us your storyand, because we have not

(05:46):
discussed the open adoption, somake sure that you educate those
who may not about I recentlyspoke in an adoption conference
two weeks ago with my mom.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
And what I had is now considered a typical nineties
open adoption, and thatbasically meant that my family
had contact within reason.
So there were.
I'll go back to the start ofthe story and then kind of
describe it as we go.
But I, um, my parents, werelooking to adopt through China

(06:31):
and they said there was afive-year waiting list.
So they said, reach out toeveryone you know, um, and just
tell them you and your husbandare looking for a baby.
And that's what they did.
Uh, and it turned out that mymom and when I say mom, or real
mom, that's my mom and birth momis just for, but my mom had an
aunt or cousin and she said, hey, I have this friend down in

(06:53):
Florida who's seven monthspregnant with a girl looking for
an open adoption.
So my parents got on a flightand they met my birth mother and
my birth sister, who was 16 atthe time, at an olive garden my
birth mother and my birth sister, who was 16 at the time, at an
olive garden and they chattedand they spoke about
expectations and whatrelationships would look like.

(07:15):
And my mom said they went backto the hotel that night and said
I want that baby and they hadlawyers and they decided that
they wanted an open adoption,that that's something they
wanted for me and to give me.
And so for my birth mother'slast two weeks of pregnancy, my
mom actually spent them with her, taking her to and from
appointments, going to the beach, going to bars and restaurants,
hanging out, and the way sherecently described it is they

(07:38):
just became friends and she wasactually the support person in
the room when my birth mothergave birth to me.
And she was actually thesupport person in the room when
my birth mother gave birth to me.
And the way it was told is thata nurse swaddled me and then
handed me to my birth mother andshe pushed me away and said
give her to her mom.
My mom was the first to hold meand that will always just be,

(07:58):
I'm sure, like she said.
The way she describes it now,which I love wholeheartedly,
especially being a mom myself,is, she said I looked at you
into those blue eyes and I hadthe dumbest thought in the world
I could never be mad at you.
She said the naivety of a newparent.
She said it was just everythingall at once.

(08:24):
They stayed in a long stayMarriott for three or four weeks
until all the paperwork wentthrough.
My birth mother previously hadthought she was going to keep me
with my birth father, but theysplit up halfway through the
pregnancy and she already had adaughter with another man and
she was about to go off tocollege.
And my understanding is mybirth mother knew how hard it

(08:46):
was, Even now, at the age of 35,having a baby.
She knew that she wasn't readyand she just could not handle it
on her own, along with life anda 16 year old, financially,
emotionally.
And so she gave me the gift ofparents that really wanted that
and wanted that life and tonurture me.
And so she told my parents thatshe had a bassinet that she had

(09:10):
found in an alley and fixed upand she's a seamstress.
So my parents bought a car tofit this enormous wicker
bassinet into the back of it sothey could drive home with it
and I'm happy to say now both mychildren have slept in it.
It has been kept for the past32 years as a stuffed animal

(09:31):
holder, as a memento holder, andit's now in my office with my
stuffed animals and for thefirst year and a half to two
years my birth mother would sendletters and my mom would send
pictures and it was all directand a lot of the time with open
adoptions are through the agency.
So you would send picturesthrough the agency.
They would send it to the birthfamily.

(09:51):
So you don't really know theiraddress but you have that
contact.
When I was about two my birthmother wrote and said I would
love to meet Sasha and myparents flew me down to Florida
and my mom said she had thisfear kind of build up inside of
her that I was going to havesome cosmic connection with my

(10:12):
birth mother.
When I saw her and mytwo-year-old self would run into
her arms and just have thisimmediate mother-daughter
connection and she was scared.
But she knew that she hadwanted an open adoption and you
know she had done all theresearch and at that point it
had said that that is ideal fora child, so they can have
questions answered if possible.
And we got to the airport andmy mom said we saw my birth

(10:35):
mother.
And I walked right behind herand stuck my head out between
her legs and she said it was themost fulfilling, grounding
moment of motherhood, where shewas like you do that with every
other person you've ever met andshe was like I'm your mom and
she's like, from then on it waslike we can see Linda, we can
call her, we can hang out, wecan do whatever we need to, but

(10:56):
I'm your mom and that's yourbirth mom.
And we went on like that where,whenever I would, it wasn't
really scheduled, it was justsend letters and pictures.
If we're going on a vacation,we invite my birth mom, we
invite my birth father, weinvite my sister, and it just
was normal where they were.
This extended family that youknow, sent gifts around
Christmas and my birthday and itwas beautiful.

(11:18):
And when I was 11, I, my mom,said what do you want for your
birthday?
And I said I want to go seeLinda.
And so we flew down and I spenta day with her sewing a little
Barbie dress and I was abridesmaid in my sister's first
wedding in Vegas.
Oh wow, and it was great.
But that's really the last timeI saw her, which is crazy,
because I have contact with hereven now.

(11:39):
We text message regularly, textmessage regularly.
But she, while we were on thattrip to Vegas, someone
approached me and my mom becausethey didn't recognize us from
the family and said so who areyou?
And my mom said my birth motherlooked at her and she it was me
and my sister, and then mybirth mother and my mom and she

(11:59):
said we are their mothers andthey are our daughters.
And my mom said that was justso classy, it was just so
perfectly said.
And from then on it was just,you know, mother's day, you know
, do you want to do you want tocall your, your mom, your birth
mother?
You know when we'd call, shewould talk about me as their
daughter.
Our daughter is so beautiful,our daughter is doing, and it

(12:22):
was just such an openness that Inever had a worry about talking
to my mom about my birth family.
And of course there's problemsin every family.
Every family is complicated.
Every teenage years arecomplicated for every single
person I've ever met.
So I don't think that's specialto adoption, but we definitely
had our ups and downs as afamily.

(12:45):
But even to this day I have toldthem when I'm pregnant, I've
told them when I'm expectingwhat I'm expecting, and my birth
mother when I was a baby, shesent me some Raggedy Ann dolls
to go with my bassinet, andrecently she sent my children
some Raggedy Ann dolls and it'sthis like full circle moment

(13:07):
where she just finds thesethings.
And I found out that before Iwas meant to be adopted my name
was supposed to be Rose and myname is Sasha Marilyn after my
name.
And then my mom.
Her mother was named Marilynand I was actually born on her
birthday, which was always ourlittle meant to be moment.

(13:28):
It was not the due date thatwas apparent, but when I had my
daughter I decided to name herafter Rose and Rose's first name
was Esteline.
So my daughter is named Estelleafter my biological
great-grandmother, to honor thatand to bring in my birth family
.
And I've heard great thingsabout her and her strength as a

(13:50):
woman and I just want tocontinue this openness with my
own children, even thoughthey're biological.
I think it's important to keepconversations about families
that look different, familiesthat are different, families
that might look the same on theoutside.
I was adopted by two whiteparents and I had blonde hair,
blue eyes and so, unless Ibrought it up, people just

(14:11):
assumed I had slightly olderparents.
And you know some, sometimes,you know people would say things
like oh, adoption, you know, ohyeah, they just throw their kid
out and it's like I'm adopted.
Don't see it that way, let'shave a conversation about it
Right, change the dialogue.
Or when people say, do you knowyour real parents?

(14:32):
Those are my parents.
I know my biological family, Iknow my birth family, and I
guess the only other thing I'llsay is I think it's funny
because my husband was actuallyadopted by his father.
I'll say is I think it's funnybecause my husband was actually
adopted by his father.
And so he has a really cooldynamic there where he had a
very different experience withadoption, where he wasn't told
until he was 12 that his fatherwas not his biological father

(14:55):
and he never had a chance tomeet his biological father
because he passed before he everfound him.
And so we often talk about likethe difference between really
knowing everything I know andbeing able to text these people
and say my kid has a penicillinallergy.
Does that run in the family?
Is that something you know?
Oh, they had a reaction to this.

(15:15):
Oh, my thyroid's going crazy.
You know what's going on hereand you know he has part of the
opportunity to do that, but healso, you know, never got to
speak to his biological father.
So I think it's interestingbecause I think in my case I had
a really ideal open adoptionwhere everyone was open to it.
But my parents also prepared mefrom very early on and they

(15:37):
also kind of armored me with theability of like my freedom of
choice.
So if I ever didn't feelcomfortable with something, if I
needed to put a boundary up, Ihad that right and they would
support it.
But they also acknowledged thatmy birth family and anyone for
that matter, had the ability toput up their own boundaries.
And so I, you know, invited mybirth family to my wedding and I

(16:02):
hadn't seen them in many yearsand I would have loved for them
to be there.
And my birth mother verysweetly basically said she
doesn't, she doesn't think theycan come, and she gave whatever.
I forget what the excuse was,but me and my mom talked about
it and we said well, we haven'tseen her since I was 13.
This is 150 people.
She may not want to answerthose questions.
She may not be comfortableseeing you for the first time in

(16:24):
so long at such a huge event.
And also, I'm not a birth.
I'm not a birth mother who gaveup a child, so I don't know
those mixed emotions that shemay have.
But what I loved is that.
I then asked.
I said, can you make my weddingveil?
And so she made the veil for mywedding and I got to wear it
and my birth sister came with myniece and I got to meet my

(16:46):
niece during that trip Um, itwas seven at the time so I had
them and I had them walk andhonor that side of the family
and I had my birth mother's veiland it was really special.
But I know people who haveinvited birth family to large
events and they were really hurtby them not coming and I think
that my parents really preparedme and that I had a relationship

(17:08):
from day one where I didn'tidealize them and I didn't fairy
tale my biological family, andthat was really important to how
I look at them now wherethey're people and they have
emotions and they haveboundaries and they have things
that they're comfortable withand things they're uncomfortable
with, and that's anyone.
And so I think, when dealingwith adoption, you just have to

(17:29):
go in knowing that there's goingto be times that you might set
boundaries, there might be timesthey might set boundaries, and
that's family, that's our family, and it's okay to do that and
it's okay to happen, it's okayto have all the feelings about
it.
It's just, you know, if youwant to open that door, you can,

(17:51):
and you have to be aware thatsomeone might not open that door
.
I rarely hear from my birthfather right now, but I hear
from my birth mother more.
I hear from my birth cousins onmy birth father's side more,
and that's okay.
And I know you know he is proudand I know she's proud.
She has all of my books and I'mso excited to always share them
with her, and I wrote one aboutadoption and I wanted to

(18:15):
preserve her privacy.
So all I did was put a littleraggedy and all in one of the
illustrations to put that in.
And I had a friend who was alsoadopted and his family sent me
a little elephant when my sonwas born.
So I put the little elephant inthere too to itemize him and
his journey with adoption andhis life.

(18:36):
So but yeah, that's my adoptionstory and, I guess, my thoughts
right off the bat on adoption.
Sorry if I went on for a littlebit guess my thoughts right off
the bat on adoption.

Speaker 1 (18:46):
Sorry if I went on for a little bit, that's
perfectly fine.
So the first thing that I willsay you know, you, the benefit
of, like you said, that dialogue, that truth that your mom was
able to have with you from thebeginning, you know that to me
helped your journey, because Ithink what happens and again I'm
speaking from a place where Ialways knew I was adopted, but I

(19:09):
didn't get the pieces to putthe puzzle together until I was
over 40 plus years old but,having that emotional
intelligence so early, I thinkreally, and just in listening to
you, it's healthy.
It's healthy and you, you, theywere very proactive in that

(19:31):
react.

Speaker 3 (19:32):
They were, and I, you know I love writing children's
books, and something thatinspired me was my parents read
me a book called tell me againabout the night I was born, and
it was about two white parentsflying over and picking up a
white baby from a hospital.
And that was my story.
But I, very early on, wasintroduced to this idea of

(19:52):
adoption, before I could evenunderstand what it was.
It was just a common factor inthe books I was read and the
things that were told.
You know, when I would askabout being in mommy's tummy,
she'd say, oh no, you're in hertummy, okay.
And so when I wrote my adoptionbook, something that I tried to
do was to make it moreuniversal.
Where we don't have a mom or adad, we don't have a race or a

(20:13):
gender or an age, and so even onthe cover, if you can see it,
it's all of these differentlittle faces that, throughout
the book, the child can see andpick themselves out on the front
and the back, to make it moreuniversal.
Because I think that that is abeautiful thing about adoption
is that it is universal and itcan happen at any age and there

(20:36):
can be so many differentsituations.
Like you said, you didn't knowall the pieces until you were in
your forties.
And that's similarly to myhusband, where it's just and
you're still putting themtogether.
I'm sure it's figuring thosethings out, trying to figure out
what people were doing.
And, yeah, that open dialogue Ithink really helped.
And I will say my dad is alittle bit more threatened by a

(21:00):
relationship with my birthfather where he has two
biological children from aprevious marriage where he's dad
and then he adopted me and Ithink that he has some feelings
about wanting to be my only dad,which he's my dad and I have a
biological father.
But even that relationship andme being raised in such an open
environment, I still can't behonest and talk to him about it.

(21:23):
The same way I talked to my mom, just because of the way she
approached things, whereeverything was so open, where
there was never a feeling of mefeeling like I couldn't ask a
question or I felt like I had tomake a choice or I'd hurt
someone's feelings, which Ithink is like really typical.
Because you know, I think it'shard I assume it's hard as an
adoptive parent to feelconnected to your child,

(21:45):
sometimes to feel like you'rereally their parent, and so I
understand his hesitancy towardsmy beginning of the open
adoption was your biologicalfather involved in that part of

(22:10):
it, or it was really the, themothers yeah.
So my understanding is that theywere going to keep me.
My birth mother moved in withhim and she said three days
later he looked at her and itwas the same look that her
ex-husband gave before he left,and so she packed up her stuff
and moved back to where she wasand said I'm putting the baby up

(22:31):
for adoption.
My parents told me that whenthey were signing the adoption
papers, my birth motherbasically had everything signed,
sealed, delivered before birth,where she was, like you know,
the second the baby's here,yours and my birth father did
not want to sign and initiallythe worry was that he was going
to back out of it, that he wouldwant to raise me, but what they

(22:54):
later found out is he justwanted to hold me.
He was worried that they werejust going to take me and that
he'd never have a chance to meetme.
Well, did he have thatopportunity?
He did, and I have pictures inthe hospital and the motel, um,
you know, spending those threeor four weeks in Florida prior
to me leaving.
They really connected andshared moments together and

(23:15):
there's like a lot of picturesfrom that time which I really
cherish.
Um and he signed, and heactually later on, when I was 18
, um requested a DNA test fromme.
Uh, he said he's not sure he'smy birth father, that that's why
he had been more distant duringmy childhood.
He had visited, but not as much, and I had never met his

(23:37):
extended family and that was thereason is they had concerns.
Uh, I brought it up to myfamily, I brought it up to my
birth mother.
My birth mother, you know,rolled her eyes and said he's
your birth father, like, and myparents said, yes, he asked for
a DNA test at birth.
That was a blood test and theythought it was too invasive.
So they made the decision, asmy guardian, to say no, I ended

(23:59):
up doing a cheek swab.
It came back, he was mybiological father and he
immediately sent me this longemail about going to Alabama,
meeting my family, meeting hismother, meeting his siblings.
He had two brothers and asister and everyone wanted to
meet me with open arms and I was18, going through a lot, and I

(24:19):
ended up waiting until I was 22years old and I was moving to
Arizona, and so I ended updriving through North Carolina,
alabama, and so I ended upmeeting his sister, her extended
family, my only livinggrandmother who's still alive
and seeing him and hisgirlfriend and his family, and
it was awesome and it was likeit was almost surreal because I

(24:42):
just had never met them but wehad so much in common and really
weird ways.
He asked me if my toe was weirdand it was like it was almost
surreal because I just had nevermet them, but we had so much in
common in really weird ways.
He asked me if my toe was weirdand it was a really strange
question because I don't haveany biological features of my
parents, so it's not somethingpeople normally are like oh, you
have their eyes, you have this.
And I said, yeah, my toes.
You know, I don't have a babytoenail.
And he goes oh, you get thatfrom my mom.
It was like this really kind ofunreal moment and now that I

(25:06):
have kids I can see myself inthem.
But I'm like it's reallystrange, like I've never really
had a family member that lookslike me, like right, like I've
never been like oh, I have yourhair, we have each other's ears,
you know.
But it was cool to have thoseconversations kind of for the
first time in a really largesetting.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
So was there a reason why getting a DNA test done
took so long after the originalask, when you were first born?

Speaker 3 (25:36):
My assumption, and from my understanding, is that
my birth father basically feltshut down by my parents when he
initially asked.
So his thinking was I'm justgoing to wait until she's an
adult and she can make herdecision.
So I don't know if it was goingaround my parents and he felt
like he couldn't ask them or ifit just was a moment of you know

(26:00):
, maybe it's time, but hedefinitely had every opportunity
to ask.
But I think the way my mom hadput it to him was when Sasha's
old enough, she can make thedecision.
And so I think for him that waslegal age to make a decision,
versus me being 11 or 12, wherehe really didn't know if my
parents would have been open toallowing it, even if I had

(26:21):
accepted.
So I think that was just in hisopinion.
You know, she's an adult, shecan make the decision.
No one's going to make it forher and I can have that peace of
mind that it's not being madefor her.
So go ahead.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
I can understand that to a certain degree.
But then he lost so many yearswith getting to know you and you
getting to know his family Well, your family you know.
So that's unfortunate that hefelt that he wasn't able to
approach.
I guess he didn't, you know, hedidn't want to get hurt, I
guess, because I'm sure he hurtwhen they told him no at the

(26:59):
beginning.
So I'm sure that wasdevastating to him.

Speaker 3 (27:02):
He's a very private person and he's never been
married, he's never had otherchildren, he lives alone.
He has a long-term girlfriendwho he has a lot of affection
for.
She has grandchildren, but hestill lives separate.
So my understanding is thathe's just kind of who he is and
he likes his life the way helikes his life.

(27:24):
So I think between him being avery private person and just
kind of non-confrontational,he's just kind of took a step
back and was like okay, I'm nother dad, I'm her biological
father and I'm here but I'm at adistance.
And I actually experienced thatwhen I first had my son three

(27:45):
years ago.
I had told him and he was veryexcited for me and I let him
know it was a boy and he doesn'thave any biological children
other than me, so this would behis first male biological
descendant and so that wasreally cool for him.
But we didn't talk a whole lotbut one of his, one of my
cousins, his sister's daughter,reached out and we chatted a

(28:07):
little bit and she goes, just soyou know, he carries around a
picture of Deegan and he showsus and that was really special
and it was also one of thosemoments where you realize there
was a boundary of he may not becomfortable talking to me about
it, but he's comfortable talkingto his people about it and it
was special to be able to hearthat and to get a little glimpse

(28:28):
of that and I think it alsogave me a little peace of mind
where it's like, okay, even ifhe's not going to reply to my
texts or he's not, you know, heis proud, he does love, he has
his love.
But sometimes it's just, Idon't know all these emotions of
how he feels or what he goesthrough when he sees this life
that I've built.
And you know, my dad visits andmy mom visit and they're the

(28:49):
grandparents, or grandma andgrandpa visits, and my mom visit
and they're the grandparents,or grandma and grandpa, you know
, and they know them from adistance but they've never met
my kids.
So they, you know, might feel acertain way about that.
And also he's a little bit moreold school, so he's a little
bit more blood is blood and hisfamily, I don't think, fully
supported the adoption but healso was not ready to be a

(29:10):
single parent.
So I think there might've beensome feelings around my birth
mother deciding to give me up,that she made the decision, he
went with it and they weren't assupportive of it.
So I love all of them, but I dothink that that played into it.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
Right what I was going to say earlier.
Going back to your father and,like you said, him being
threatened, and I immediatelythought about with my daughters,
as a dad, a girl dad you knowthat connection and you know I
said, well, how would I feel?
And it would be a rough periodbecause, normally and not

(29:47):
normally Again, my situation.
My mom had the threat of thefile is closed, you can't open
it, whereas my dad was like Iwant to know too, let's go so to
hear that it was the oppositeway for you.
You know it's interesting, butit's something about, you know,
dads and girls that just have adifferent connection.

Speaker 3 (30:10):
Oh, yeah, my husband and our daughter.
That is his little princess.
She could commit every felonyin the book and he just where do
I bury the bodies, honey?
She's only two, so she's notcommitting any crimes yet.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
but yeah, yeah, it's interesting.
I remember with my firstdaughter that was the first
blood relative that I met, thatI held, and it just it did
something for me.
It was like the Lion Kingmoment, where you hold up the
baby.
And I remember telling her thatstory and I didn't know that
she is very proud of that, likeshe wears that as a badge of

(30:48):
honor.
We were talking and my youngestwas like yes, she always tells
us you're the first bloodrelative that she met.
And I said you feel some kindof way about that.
Well, because she tells me likeevery month and in that moment
I was like wow that's.
That's awesome, you know,because now there's a shared
moment, and so, again, I'mgetting more sentimental in my

(31:13):
older age.
We went to SeaWorld today andthey have a sesame place In
Williamsburg.
They have a sesame place aswell, so they have some of the
same rides, but they have thiswhirly worm, and I don't do
roller coasters, but when I sawthe whirly worm, I had to get on
it.
And Jayla was like dad, yougetting on it?

(31:34):
And I said let me tell you whyI'm getting on it.
And it was her and Jordan.
And I said the reason I'mgetting on it.
I said because in 2013,.
We were on this ride inWilliamsburg and I got the call
that my mom had had a stroke.
I said and that's when she gotready to transition.
I said so this is me taking youon that ride, cause we never

(31:55):
went back.
And both of them were like Iremember that, you know.
So it was a good moment.
And then, once we got on, I waslike why am I on this thing?
I'm going to throw up, yeah.

Speaker 3 (32:08):
Sometimes we feel a certain way.

Speaker 1 (32:10):
Right, right, I got emotionally drawn in, but it was
just a good moment and nothinghappens by accident for us to be
having this conversationtonight and there's so many
connections.
When you really start to pullback the layers and because
we're so caught up in ourroutines and the normalcy of
what we expect, we miss things.

(32:32):
You know, we miss moments.

Speaker 3 (32:48):
And again, I'm inspired just to continue to
increase, even outside ofadoption.
But in general and this issomething me and my husband try
and do is, if you make it normal, it is normal, right, you make
diversity and differentreligions and adoption and
different types of families andsingle parenting and divorce and
marriage and all of thesethings normal to your kids, then

(33:10):
it just will be.
But if they never see a gaycouple or a mixed race family,
that will not be normal and theywill go and be like that
doesn't look like our family.
No, it doesn't.
And you have that openconversation.
So even with, like, socialmedia and YouTube channels and
things like that, showing themdifferent types of people,
people that look different, thatsound different, and then

(33:31):
having conversations with themwhen it comes up and interacting
with them of like, oh, he hastwo mommies, oh, he, probably he
maybe calls one mama and onemommy, just like you call mom
and dad.
They're two people, they havedifferent things and I have, you
know, whenever my birth mothersaid something, it's like that's
my birth mom, Just like youwere in my tummy.
I was in her tummy and thengrandma and grandpa raised me

(33:54):
and it's just like, it's just anormal.
It doesn't have to be a bigdeal, it doesn't have to have
this big sit down, wait typeconversation, especially when
they're really little like mine,but it's just normal.
So when they do get to an agelike your daughters that are
able to have more in-depthconversations, it's not like
you're adopted, it's like no,that's you know, you know who.

(34:15):
Who Linda is Linda, you know she.
She sends gifts, she says thisshe like gave you those rackety
hands you play with.
Oh yeah, no, I know.
Or you know, she sent thatValentine's day gift and blah,
blah, blah, blah, you know, dida video chat with her.
You know, it's just just, it'snormal stuff and I think that's
just important raising kids ingeneral, even outside of
adoption, it's just make itnormal.

(34:35):
I'm dyslexic.
My kids know I'm dyslexic, theyknow I had trouble reading and
I got a ged.
It doesn't make someone lessthan just means differently and
that's why you're gonna comeacross people that learn
differently in school two thingswith that One I got to tell my
kids.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
you know there are many ways to get to the end
destination.
Some people take the interstate,some people take the HOV, some
people drive through the townLong as you get to where you're
supposed to go.
That's the important thing.
The second thing I would say isthat when I was in the school
system and I would do trainingsand I would talk to the
elementary school teachers, Iwould tell them be mindful, when
you celebrate these holidays,that everybody's narrative is

(35:18):
different.
You know, what about those kidswho their parents may have
passed away?
They're not looking forward toa Mother's Day coming up.
You know, you have to make surethat you are addressing
everyone in that classroombecause everybody's entitled to
make sure that you areaddressing everyone in that
classroom because everybody'sentitled, you know.

(35:39):
So that's again looking back.
I've always been a champion forthe underrepresented, you know,
and not really understandingand knowing why, but it's just
always.
I've always looked at it from adifferent angle, like the what
if?
Helping me understand my why?

Speaker 3 (35:49):
No, I love that and I love that and I love that, just
that representation of peopleand making sure that, like it's
like the underdog in any moviewe're all rooting for them and
it's like just acknowledgingthem and then raising our youth
to acknowledge that and to thatbe a norm for them of not
everyone has a mom for mother'sday, not everyone has a dad,
some people for christmas at twodifferent houses, and that's

(36:11):
really hard.
They have two Christmas trees,or one's Jewish, and they don't
celebrate at both houses.
Like, and it's just talkingabout that, acknowledging that
and them not being so surprisedwhen the world hits them in the
face, because at some point itwill.
And I love this analogy asparents that were their coaches
and that they're going to play agame of life and we can coach

(36:33):
them, we can train with them, wecan scrimmage.
When it comes to the game, wecannot step on the field and
there's going to be some wins.
There's going to be some hardlosses, a couple of ties here
and there.
They're going to get hurt,they're going to do great at
some points, but it's like allwe can do is just cheer them on
and if they need to come back,they can come off, they can talk

(36:55):
to us, we can be there, we canbe their coach and they'll get
back in.
But our job is just that oneday they'll be their own coach
and they'll have their own team,and that's what we're we're
raising, and it's like you wantthem to get to that point.
You don't want them to be justsitting on the bench with you
the whole time, you want themout.

Speaker 1 (37:11):
I'm trying to find a button to hit touchdown or score
.
Exactly that is yes.
I needed to hear that a fewmonths ago when my daughter
first started college, because Iwas trying to be on the field.
And like you said, I got theheadset on.
I'm up top in the booth.
Hey, I got the scouting report.
I've seen this.

(37:31):
I've seen this Lifetime movie.
I know how it ends.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
Yeah, you definitely can't, because I know when my
daughter went to college forcheerleading and my other
daughter was graduating, so theday of her graduation party was
the day that my daughter hadcheerleading tryouts, so and the
coach was a little difficult,but I couldn't step in and call

(37:59):
the coach and say, hey, you know, I need my daughter not to you
know, or let her try out firstso she can come to her sister's
party.
I couldn't do any of that.
I had to deal with herself.
So she ended up unfortunatelynot coming to the party because
I guess the coach had it out forher.
So she made her go last whenshe could have just as easily

(38:19):
allowed her to go.
And I'm sure, if I had calledbut again, if I had called and
put my mom hat on and myauthority, then how would that
be for her?
Because she would have been theone had to deal with the
consequences it would have beenbad right and I'm not there, so
I allowed her to work it outherself.

(38:40):
Unfortunately, it didn't workout in her favor.
But that's when you have toreally not say, okay, I can't be
involved, I can't.
After a certain point, you haveto draw the line and allow them
to try and get through whateverthey need to get through.
Whether they fail or not, youstill have to be there to allow
them to do that.

(39:00):
So it's tough.
It's a tough situation.

Speaker 3 (39:04):
And also I just want to applaud you because you
raised two independent women whoare able to do those things,
and that's what you did.
And you now have girls on thefield who are living life and
they can handle it.
And it's like, of course, asparents, we want to be there,
but it's like knowing that youraise such strong women that can
be there for themselves and getknocked down and get back up

(39:27):
and handle it.
It's like, even on the bad days, like you got this and it's
like you raised that and it'slike that's proud.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
Yeah, yeah, cause we're not always going to be
there as long as we instill whatwe need to instill in them.
Regardless of you know how wewere raised or our own journeys,
my journey was definitelydifferent from yours and John's,
because I didn't know until Iwas almost 40.
So everything was completelynormal to me up until that time.

(39:56):
And then everything starts, youknow, crashing on me.
You know like, oh my gosh, thisis not my real life.
So all my experience is likethis is for Lisa, but I'm not
Lisa, I'm someone else and thisis her life.
So you know, I had to strugglewith that and because I was

(40:20):
older, my kids were a little, alittle bit older, so it was a
roller coaster.
Trying to kind of explain myjourney with them.
See, yours was all open andyou're, you're already
normalizing it for your kids.
I didn't really have thatopportunity because I kept it a
secret for some time before theyfound out that I was you had to
process it.

(40:42):
I had to process it because Ididn't want to kind of blow
their world up until I kind ofunderstood it.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
You couldn't answer questions until you had those
answers yourself.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
Unfortunate part is that I didn't get that
opportunity because theydiscovered it on their own and
then they confronted me with it.
Like you know, they haddocuments that I had on the fax
machine and they, they foundthem and they brought is this
true?
So that's how it came out tothem.

(41:13):
So that was.
That was you know a lot.
They were, they were devastated.

Speaker 3 (41:18):
You know they're like wait a minute my life is not my
life.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
I was like your life is your life.
I'm the one who is about torelax.

Speaker 3 (41:26):
It has to be hard because it's the people that are
closest to you and it feelslike a lie, I imagine, of just
why would you lie?
I know it's changing so muchnow in this new, in the 20th
century adoption style, but Iimagine anything that my parents
used to keep from me.
It always just felt very bigand just like a lot, and I was

(41:48):
still young but it was.
You know.
Why did you lie Like you, mypeople, my two people?
Why did you lie to me?
You know?

Speaker 1 (41:56):
Right.

Speaker 2 (41:57):
Right, but then they have and you have to respect.
Well, I eventually understoodwhy they she didn't tell us.
I mean, I think my father, myfather was the type of person
that he'll go along withwhatever she decided to do.
So you know, like, if she's notgoing to tell him, ok.
So it was really my mom and youknow, I kind of understood once

(42:21):
.
I kind of got a good idea of whyshe did what she did.
Because she's been trying, shewas trying to have children for
four years and wasn't, wasn'tsuccessful.
I don't know the details,whether she, you know, whether
she was ever pregnant and hadmiscarriages or whatever.
I don't know the details ofthat.
But whatever it was, the lastresort for her to have children

(42:41):
was adoption and they agreed todo that.
And then, once she had adoptedmy brother and then adopted me,
it was like okay, they're mine,no one else my brother, and then
adopted me.
It was like, okay, they're mine, no one else, you know, moving
forward, no one tell them, in asense.
Until we found out, no one, noone ever, you know, no one ever

(43:22):
slipped to even tell us that andthat was pretty much her kids
and that's how it was.
But I understood as a mother.
I understood once I found outwhy she did what she did.
I totally understood.
At first I was angry.
I'm like why would you lie?
Mother was kind of fearful.
When you first went down tomeet with your biological mother
, I feel that my mother wasfearful of me even saying, hmm,
I want to know about mybiological mother, I want to go
searching for her, which Iwouldn't have.

(43:43):
But she doesn't know that andshe would have threatened
because I know the type ofperson she was and I also had
the opportunity to meet mybiological mother.
So I know the type of personshe was.
But you could not have lived inmy world at the same time.
So all things happen for areason.

Speaker 3 (44:03):
That's very true.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
We find our families.
Tasha, I have a question.
So you talked about you knowyour adoption was the typical
90s adoption or traditionaladoption.
So a couple of questions aboutthat.
First one you know you talkedabout your dad being refused the
DNA test and then waiting tillyou were 18.

(44:27):
Were 18.
What were his rights with thatopen adoption?
Did he have a right to go toyou at the age of 11 if he
wanted to request a DNA test?
What are the parameters or therights within that open adoption
?

Speaker 3 (44:41):
So with an open adoption, they have no rights.
So my parents have full rightsfrom the time I left Florida and
the paperwork was sealed.
The main part of an openadoption was the choice to keep
my birth family kind of in theloop of my life and keeping me
partially in theirs.
So my parents still madedecisions that I don't agree

(45:03):
with.
My parents would send gifts,and if my parents didn't agree
with those gifts, they wouldjust donate them, and that was
something that I wish theyhadn't done, because those would
be very sweet to have now.
But my mom didn't like Barbiesand my birth mother would send
Barbies and she would just say,no, we're not letting Sasha play
with Barbies.
And they were able to makethose calls and I found out

(45:25):
about them when I was much older, did your biological mom know
that we're not giving her this.
Yeah, she.
They were very open with herand said please don't send any
more Like this is not what we'regiving Sasha and what we're
exposing her to.
Um, and they gave differentthings but it was.
It's weird and eyeopening.
I had a.

(45:45):
I was adopted by my mom and dadand my dad's Jewish, and my mom
was raised Catholic.
Um, but my mom was notreligious and my birth family,
my grandmother, was Jewish andshe or was um Catholic and
German and she was big intoChristmas and she was very
concerned that I was beingadopted by a Jew.
So she crocheted Christmasblanket and she gave it to them.

(46:08):
When I was born and I actuallyrecently spoke to my husband
because my mom, once I was outof the house, she never put up a
tree she gave me all of herornaments, all the cookie
cutters.
She was like take it, you likeChristmas.
But in my head I'm like did theycelebrate Christmas so big?
Because they were honoring whatmy birth family's wishes were,
which was to celebrate Christmasin a big way, cause I always

(46:29):
had Hanukkah with my dad and hisfamily and then I would have
Christmas with my mom for many,many years and it would be these
big parties and everything, butthat's not really who she is
Right, and so I think that was away they honored the want of
that side of the family.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
It could have been one of the you know a deal that
they made.
Yeah, and I, that's a.
I appreciate that your mom didthat, because that's her
sacrificing for you.

Speaker 3 (46:59):
Definitely they, and that's, I think, something that
comes with parenting in general.
But when it comes to likemeshing two families with
genetics, with differences, withall these things, you know it's
honoring and I love that wordhonoring my birth family and
honoring my biological historyand that just being part of our
life.
And it wasn't just like theyadopted me and then they were

(47:20):
like okay, you are now cut fromour cloth.
They were saying you're cutfrom a different cloth and we're
going to honor that cloth inmultiple ways and we're going to
make sure that you have friendsthat are also adopted.
And I didn't know these thingswere going on.
But I had a really closegirlfriend for many years in
lower school.
She was adopted by a single mom.
I did not know that my parentspurposely made sure that

(47:43):
friendship was there and that wewere in the same like clubs
together.
But my mom was like, oh yeah,no, me and her mom would talk
all the time.
We always wanted to do girlstogether.
I was like I didn't even knowthat it was just that was my
best friend.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
But you know why, maybe she?
Why didn't she?
Why didn't they disclose thatyou both were adopted?

Speaker 3 (48:02):
Oh, we, they, we did so.
We both knew we were adopted.
They just didn't disclose thatthey were kind of pushing us on
the same direction, because Ithink they were trying to create
just a kinship between us wherethey were like they have each
other, they have that similarity.
So if they do, yeah, so if theydo want to talk about it.
And it was different.
You know, she was adopted by asingle mother.

(48:23):
She never had a father.
She was married.
She didn't have afather-daughter dance.
She just was never raised witha father.
But that was her situation.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
But that to me was normal because that was my best
friend's family.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
And it was just.

Speaker 3 (48:43):
That's how it is.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
Like it wasn't some shock.
Like, oh my gosh, againnormalizing the non-traditional
having the discussions.
So you said you, recently, Iguess, did a little more
research.
What's different now with the?
Well, before I even ask that,going back, you said that the
parents have the right tocontrol.
They have all the rights oncethe file is sealed.
Is there an agreement with hey,we're going to continue to keep

(49:06):
you involved for X amount oftime, or it's just whenever they
say enough is enough, then it'sdone.

Speaker 3 (49:13):
So this is kind of the sad part about it, in my
opinion, is that the adoptivefamily can pull the plug at any
time.
The kid has no say.
In certain States it's 18, incertain States it's 21 that the
child has a say.
Um, but my mom actually becamean adoption agent after adopting
me and there were more than afew cases where a family would

(49:34):
go into it saying I would likean open adoption with my
biological child.
Birth mom is on board, findsadoptive family, adoptive
family's on board, baby's born,everything's sealed.
Parents say, by the way, we'renot telling them they're adopted
, pound sand and the birthfamily has no right.
They can't search them Facebook, they can't message them.

(49:55):
There were some really sadcases involving that, where that
just happened and the rug waspulled out from under them.
So really it is completely upto the parents of the child the,
you know, raising the child tomake all the decisions.
Um, and I was just really luckythat I had parents that were
like here here's the informationyou know you can, once I became

(50:16):
a certain age, I could emailthem myself, I could ask to call
them.
Um, but yeah, a lot of thathappens, uh, happened and uh,
it's definitely there's a lot ofreally sad stories around
children finding out and beinglike I'm adopted, just like you
said, like you didn't know untilyou were in your forties.
And there's children who findout in their adolescence and

(50:37):
they have real traumas with itbecause they're going through
all of those hormones and justalready having a hard time.
And then they realize theirparents lied and this was
supposed to happen.
Now they feel you know, just Ican't imagine what they feel
honestly, but it's, it's, I'msure, very hard.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
And it's an open adoption.
So so the biological parentsreally have no rights in an open
adoption.

Speaker 3 (51:02):
Yeah, the only thing is contact.
So the only thing of an openadoption is that the parents of
the child allow contact with thebirth family and keep contact.
So normally that would happenwhere you would say, okay, every
six months let's send picturesand postcards and they would
send it to the adoption agency.
The adoption agency would sendit to the birth family but they

(51:23):
would have no contact, partiallyto protect each other, so no
one would go to each other'shouses, there'd be no stalking.
I guess was like the originalthing, and now people are like
hanging at the park with theirbirth family.
I spoke to a woman at theconference two weeks ago.
She's a birth mom to afive-year-old boy.
The parents of her biologicalson were there watching.

(51:44):
She had him and he was in theNICU for three weeks.
They spent every day in theNICU all together, all nurturing
.
They go to playgrounds, theycome over to each other's houses
.
They're like full-blown, likeoh no, this is like auntie, like
that's the vision that I had.
Yeah, so that's now kind of.

(52:05):
I think the more norm now islike this person that's in the
child's life, but not a parent,it's just.
You know, this birth mother wassaying, you know she went to
Europe for six months soobviously she didn't see them
during that time.
But like that's the freedom shegot by not raising her child
and by giving him up foradoption and giving him parents

(52:25):
is because she wanted to be morefree.
But she's also a call away ifhe has, if he has questions.
And now she's back in the areaand she's like, oh yeah, no, we
just had lunch the other day,you know, this is his favorite
spot, you know, and they're all.
I think the beauty is they'reall so proud of the kid and it's
a child centered thing now.
Like adoption is all about thechild and what the child needs

(52:48):
and what the child wants and thequestions the child has.
And there's so much support ofeven if a child knows they're
adopted and doesn't ask anyquestions.
There's so much support aroundadoption now of well, do you
want your parents to search foryour bio parents and just have
that information if you do wantit one day?
You know there's just so muchout there now and it was.

(53:11):
It was so funny because the oneof the other panelists was a
biological father and his adultson and he's like, oh yeah, yeah
, we run into each other on thesubway all the time.
We live like a block from eachother.
Wow, wow, and it's just likeyou know and it's it's crazy,
but he still respects, eventhough that boy was an adult.

(53:31):
He still respects his parentswishes where they no longer have
contact with the biologicalmother because of her own stuff
which I'm not sure about, butthey're like we don't want her
to know that you have contact.
So if you see her, please don'ttell her.
You know him and you see himand so that's just a respect
point of he's.

(53:51):
Those are his parents and I'mgoing to respect them.
I feel like that's just any likefamily member or friend If you
have.
You know someone else with kidsand they're like, hey, don't
feed them that, hey, we're notdoing screen time, and you just
respect that because they'retheir kids.
So I think that that's how openadoption has evolved into of
you're the parents.
I'm a bio mom.
I don't have the right to tellyou how to parent.

(54:13):
I don't have the right to doanything legally, nothing.
It's just I'm here and I havelove for this beautiful child
and I have love for your familythat you're creating and you're
raising my biological child andI'm here as a friend, as a
family member, as someone wholoves them too and who loves you
and wants to make this child'slife as open as possible and

(54:38):
have all the questions answered.

Speaker 2 (54:40):
Right Wow.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
That is awesome.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
I have a question so, going back to your mother and
when you found out that when youwere younger she wasn't certain
gifts like the Barbie dolls,how did you feel once you found
out to your mother?

Speaker 3 (55:00):
Oh, I told her she was being petty.
I said you're being petty, shegoes.
I probably was a littleoverbearing and I was like it's
okay, I'm a mom, I get it, it'sjust I was like a Barbie and she
was like I know.
But my mom sometimes says shesaid that she was a neurotic.
Older parent is what shedescribes herself as and her and
my dad divorced and she's nowmarried to another man and he

(55:23):
had I have a stepbrother fromhim and she goes.
Me and your stepdad were justneurotic older parents who
didn't really know what to doand we were just grasping at
straws and she's like there'sstuff I would change.
But I think, like looking ather now and looking at all of
those decisions she made change.
But I think, like looking ather now and looking at all of
those decisions she made, shewas always doing the best she
could and I think that that'sall you can ask of your parents.

(55:44):
So I think we're able to jokeabout those things now and
there's no hard feelings.
Of course, I would have ratherhave them, but now my daughter
has those Barbies.
My birth mother sent herBarbies and I'm like that's cool
, like I'm going to throw outprobably the shoes because
they're a choking hazard.
Right, maybe she'll be mad atme for that, because maybe those
little shoes will be going upon ebay one day for twenty
thousand dollars.
Why didn't you let me havethose little cinderella shoes,

(56:06):
like they were a choking hazard.
So I made the decision, as yourparent, to get rid of them.
And it's like you know, we'reall gonna we're flop sometimes
Like, yeah, we have to be ableto say we're doing our best.
That's all we can ask of ourkids, of our family, of
ourselves, and that's, you know,what my parents did.
They did their best they could.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
And I'm glad that you brought up you know doing the
best that you can with what youhave yeah, when you shared about
the book that was read to you,I remember I had a birth facts
book and I cherished it.
It was in the top of my closetgrowing up and I showed my

(56:45):
friends.
I was like no, I am adopted,look at this.
Never opened the book Again,not knowing.
And when I opened the book itjust had the time I was born,
you know some basic information.
But to have had that book whereit I could have seen myself in
my story, um, because there weremoments looking back where I

(57:08):
wasn't embarrassed.
I just didn't have the languageor the ability to process what
I was of, who I was from that,from that angle.
So talk to me a little bitabout the books that you've
written, like First Day and justthe inspiration of that,
because, again, that's a voidthat I didn't have and I'm like

(57:30):
man, how, how much more mentallywould I have been prepared for
my journey had I had that?

Speaker 3 (57:38):
Yeah.
So I wrote first day anadoption story in so many
versions and initially I wroteit as just my story and I was
like, oh yeah, this is perfect.
And I wanted to share it withsome friends.
And I was like, oh well, theydon't have the same adoption
story I do.
Oh, they don't have.
And I was like I don't reallyknow anyone who was adopted like
from infancy, who knew theirbirth family.

(57:59):
And I was like, okay, well,let's rework this.
And I sent it to someconnections that my mom had in
the industry and they said,what's the reason you're writing
this?
And I was like, well, I wantpeople to be able to read their
own story.
I want them to be able to havethat book, like you said, to be
proud and to know.

(58:20):
And I actually have a blankcalendar where families can fill
out the first day they became afamily, which might not be the

(58:40):
child's birthday, but it's toopen up that dialogue of this
was our first day as a family.
And then it's a bunch ofanalogies of you traveled far
and wide.
You don't have my ankles, myfeet or my toes, but you walk in
my footsteps.
With each one, our love grows,we have the words.
Such a beautiful face, thoughnot mirroring mine, and so it's

(59:03):
just a bunch of analogies, whereit doesn't talk about specifics
but it allows for that opendialogue and at the very end it
has a space for my first daystory.
And so we have about 10 to 20pages of blank blind paper where
people can write in their ownadoption story so that children
can have that at the end, sothey can, I'm sure, read the

(59:24):
book when they're little, butwhen they're older they can have
that writing, as it's happening, from the parents where they
can share their child's storyand they can have it in there as
a little memento for them,because I love hearing about it.
But I don't have anythingwritten for my childhood.
I have my little book my momgave me about how often I pooped

(59:45):
and drank and burped and all ofthose little things that she
held on to, which I love, but Ididn't have anything written
down about my adoption storyuntil I became much older and I
kind of asked them and we filledin a couple of blanks.
But I really wanted to writesomething that would allow for
parents to write it from thatfirst day and my goal is that I

(01:00:06):
had biological children and Ihad pregnancy books that I would
write first trimester.
Here are my cravings and my goalis to make one for adoption
where it's a huge fill in theblank where parents can fill out
.
You know what was your childwearing when you first met them?
What did they bring with them?
You know what?
When did you decide on adoption?
How was that decision made?

(01:00:27):
Who did you speak to?
You know what was your firstintroduction?
Just all of those little detailswhich some families may not
have and some families may haveall of.
But I want to create basicallya fill in the blank pregnancy
book, but for adoption, so thatthey can have those little
details, cause I love those andI love being able to hand those
down to my kids and have thesonogram pictures and you know,

(01:00:48):
have little things about whenthey lost their first tooth and
it's like I don't see any ofthose for adoption where it's
very specific into what otherpeople have, and so I'd love
that.
And then, especially hearinghow open adoption is now is
having one for birth families tofill out, you know, obviously
with the comfort of the adoptivefamilies, but you know,
whenever that child is ready tohave that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
That's, that's amazing.
That's like John, because Ithink John, when he was born, or

(01:01:39):
she, said, yes, she would comeevery week and we would talk for
about an hour and I would justbe ready for her to go.
Um, but she wrote, I mean, Iwas when I got the file.
It answered so many questionsand created so many more, you
know, because it was well.
What was she thinking Um?
You know, because it was well,what was she thinking um?
You know what was the, thepregnancy journey like?

(01:02:00):
And you know, did she evercontemplate back and forth?
Where was she at?
And it it had all those thingsin there, you know.
So it, it, it was just, it wasa tool, like you said.
It was a tool that wasinteresting.
Um, my, my first mom.
I asked her.
I said you know, do you wantthe file?
She was like no, and I thinkthat you know, it's still, it's

(01:02:22):
still tender for her.
You know, and I respect herposition and I said her all the
time.
I said I'm just thankfulbecause you could have still
kept your barriers up, but youwere willing to at least allow
some form of connection andcommunication.
So what I'm not going to do isabuse that.

Speaker 3 (01:02:42):
Yeah, I had a similar .
I sent my birth mother a bookthat was a fill in the blank of,
like mom, I want to get to knowyou.
And she called me and she said,honey, you can ask me any
question you want.
I just don't like writing downand I said, okay, thank you, and
I was like, okay, cool, like, Iwould love to have that and you

(01:03:02):
have every right to say no.
Like, and I'm glad the door isstill open, like, yeah, that is
amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
So, where can individuals get your books?
Let's, let's put that out there.

Speaker 3 (01:03:16):
Yes, sasha Sedmancom, the world of Sasha Sedman.
I have seven books out.
Dunk in the Garden just cameout, but I love speaking through
experience and writing thosebooks through experience.
I think it's really specialwhen someone can connect with
that and I really wanted to bean adoptee who wrote something

(01:03:37):
that more people could connectwith and meeting a bunch of
adoptees recently and you guys,it's like it's great because it
just broadens everyone'sspectrum of what adoption is and
what families can look like.

Speaker 1 (01:03:49):
We're definitely.
Well, we talked about it.
I'm going to be in the nextconference because I want to be
in that space.
A young lady that I went tocollege with whole time we were
there did not know that she wasadopted and we talked and you
know she said that she wouldnever have kids because of her
journey.
But she will be the best auntand, you know, supporter, so

(01:04:14):
definitely will be that.
So I have a question for you.
I'll put you on the spot out ofyour seven books, which one is
your favorite?

Speaker 3 (01:04:25):
Yep, there it is so, personally, my favorite to read
right now is all out of ducks.
What is that about?
Read right now is All Out ofDucks.
What is that about?
It's a play on parents beingall out of the F word, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
Is there an age limit on this?
There are no bad words.

Speaker 3 (01:04:55):
There are no bad words in this book.
There are no curse words.
There is nothing bad.
I was given the book Go the Fto Sleep as a gift for my baby
shower and it's hilarious.
But the F word is consistentlythroughout this book.
And I have a really good friendwho does not curse around.
Her kids will not accept thebook in her household.
Her son's reading, you knowabsolutely not.

(01:05:16):
And so I started writing thisbook because I had postpartum
depression.

Speaker 1 (01:05:20):
Yes, and I thought to myself.

Speaker 3 (01:05:27):
You know how difficult it was parenting from
any perspective and how hard itis to be a parent to young,
young children and to be all outof ducks.
And also the struggle ofparents not to curse around
their kids and try to set a goodexample.
So the book follows a mom on aday with her young child, trying
to create a day of not cursingbut also just trying to make it

(01:05:50):
the best day.
So there's moments of trying toget out the door and the kid
runs out the door and you'relike fish don't run in the
street.
But the way we did it was.
We illustrated all of theseanimals that they used instead
of cursing.
And at the end of the book thehouse is a zoo full of these
animals, all of these words.
And this parent is looking attheir sleeping child saying I'm

(01:06:14):
so grateful that I get theopportunity to parent you and
I'm so grateful that my house isa zoo because I'm raising you.
I'm raising you in this zoohousehold and I'm exhausted and
I'm all out of ducks and Iwouldn't change a thing on your
head.
But, duck, is it nice when youfinally go to bed?
And I love reading it to mykids because they love all of

(01:06:35):
the animals, and then I can alsoget a bit of a giggle out of it
.
And I love reading it to mykids because they love all of
the animals and then I can alsoget a bit of a giggle out of it.
And the most important part tome is that there's a phone
number on the very front of itand that is the National
Maternal Hotline phone numberfor calling or texting 24 seven
for maternal mental health.
And I did not know about thisphone number when I was
postpartum.
I just knew about the suicidehotline and so I would call that

(01:06:57):
when I was depressed and I wasable to get help.
But it wasn't specific.
And so when I wrote this book,I wanted to make sure for new
parents, older parents, forfresh parents, of the little
tiny itty bitties, they have aphone number that they can reach
out to when they're having ahard time and when they're all
out of ducks.
And they can also know thatit's normal to be all out of
ducks, that raising children ishard, and I wanted to put it on

(01:07:20):
the front.
So wherever the book is, thephone number is, so parents
don't have to look for it, theycan just see it right on the
front, and it's right there andall the animals are looking at
it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
And what's the number ?
Oh, I just ordered it, I'mgoing to put it in.

Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
I'm going to put it in.

Speaker 3 (01:07:35):
The phone number is 1-833-853-6262.
And I believe it translates to1-833-TLC-MAMA.

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
We're going to have that on there.

Speaker 1 (01:07:48):
So somewhere on the website my book will be here
from.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
Wednesday.

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
And what's going to be even more powerful.
I'm going to read it with mydaughters.
Oh, I love that because mydaughter's here on spring break.
So you know, and I know it'scheesy, but you know, you try
and get that reconnection time.
Like sunday morning we went andhopped on the bed and she's
like, let's, let me sleep likeit's 12 o'clock, get up like we
want to spend our time, but onenight before she goes back I'm

(01:08:18):
going to read the book, becausewe haven't had a story time,
because I think Even at this ageI got less ducks.

Speaker 3 (01:08:28):
Yeah, some days we're all out of ducks and that's OK.
And I think I have a moment inthere and one of my friends will
say it where, like I'm justrotting on the sofa, like if
your kids are content and doingsomething, and you're like, have
dishes piled up, have laundryto do, but everyone's like
content, you're like I'm notgoing to move, I'm just going to
sit and rot.
And I put that in the bookwhere the mom is sitting on the

(01:08:49):
floor feeding an apple to thepig.
Just like I'm just going to layhere because the kid's content
playing.
Like I'm just going to lay herebecause the kid's content
playing, I'm just going to takea moment of silence.
And then all chaos breaks looseagain because you're trying to
do dishes, make dinner,someone's knocking at the door,
the kid's trying to open thedoor to the stranger.
You know there's an alligatorlicking the yogurt off the
ceiling.
Who knows how it got there.
You know, it's just the chaosand I shared it with so many of

(01:09:12):
my girlfriends and we all laughabout it and we have that now
and we have those moments and weshare them and it's normal.

Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
It's okay to be all out of ducks, we all we call
that funky saturday around hereand we get at least four a year.
Okay, listen, I'm not leavingthe house.
If you eat, you eat.
If you get, if you eat drycheerios, that's it's you.
It's all good, just fend foryourself.

Speaker 3 (01:09:38):
You said four days a year.
It's Monday.
I'm on two days.
My kid was eating a Pop-Tartoutside in the grass.
I was repainting the lawn,that's all right.

Speaker 1 (01:09:59):
Build character, you're fine.

Speaker 3 (01:10:00):
That's right, you're fine.
My daughter picked up aStarbucks cup off of tractor
supply floor and took a sip ofit.

Speaker 1 (01:10:08):
I don't know where it came from.

Speaker 3 (01:10:10):
I called my husband.
I said well, about three daysshe'll be sick.
I don't know who left it there.
But some frappuccino, something.
Oh my, she's two, and she wasas content as can be.
I'm like all right, this is howit is, this is like it is.

Speaker 1 (01:10:26):
Yeah, that's funny, that is sasha this has been so
enlightening and powerful.
Yes, one to hear your story andto be inspired by it, but then
the resource.
That's the, the thing that ismotivating for us.
We want to be a resource forindividuals.
Um, not only the platform, butconnecting the dots and

(01:10:49):
empowering people.
Um, and also because I workwith, um, children with autism,
that's a whole different avenue,so that I'm all out of ducks.
That's something I'm going toshare with them, with those
parents, as well.
Because they're like I said,that's a whole different
soundtrack and I have twoparents that I'm working with

(01:11:12):
that are new to this journey ofhaving a child with autism and
sometimes you have to be okaywith not knowing.
You have to be okay with I'mwrestling with this right now.
So I'm just excited to enhancemy tools and to be able to
support you and what you'redoing.
And, yeah, this is, this wasgood, this was very good.

(01:11:35):
I knew.
I knew when we, when we talkedbefore, I said it's something,
this is going to be a special,this was good, this was very
good.
I knew when we talked before, Isaid this is going to be a
special episode.

Speaker 3 (01:11:42):
Yeah, this is great.
I loved connecting and I'd loveto connect you guys with Barker
and the people I know in theindustry and just get everyone
connected.
I know they have their annualconference and they have other
conferences around the UnitedStates, I think, with other
adoption facilities.
I'm trying to get in contactwith them too and get my book
out there.
Speak out there, you know just.

Speaker 1 (01:12:02):
Absolutely.
Do you have a social mediapresence?

Speaker 3 (01:12:07):
I do.
My son went viral on TikTokbecause he was chunky, so we
have like 180,000 followers.
Okay, cause he was chunky, sowe have like 180,000 followers.
Okay, however you get it.
I, you know, I um, I started atech talk, um, because I had

(01:12:31):
recurring pregnancy losses and Iconnected with the trying to
conceive community and mamarainbow, baby mamas and a bunch
of those mamas shared andsupported me through my journey
and having my son.
And then my son wasexponentially chunky and round
and a couple of his videos wentviral and we got all the hate,
all the love and so we just kindof kept with it and hung out

(01:12:51):
and I have that and that's underthe underscore.
Kowalskis, if you want toupdate on my family, we are
outside dirt bike riding, we'rethinking about getting chickens.

Speaker 1 (01:13:03):
We are underscore.

Speaker 3 (01:13:05):
Kowalskis.
Yeah, k-o-w-a-l-s-k-i.
It's my married name and I usemy given name, sedeman, for my
books.

Speaker 2 (01:13:17):
Okay, I will definitely put that in the you
will find me on one of theseends?
Yeah, taekwondo.

Speaker 3 (01:13:26):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:13:27):
Yep, there it is.

Speaker 3 (01:13:28):
He actually.
It's so funny.
My husband got to that back tothe house at 629 tonight right
or 659, right before our podcastwith my son coming back from
karate and to help me with mydaughter, so she didn't have to
be in here initially.

Speaker 1 (01:13:43):
Got it.
Well, we definitely will putthat information up so that
people can get those resources.
Like I said, I instantly I gotthe book.
Those of you who you knowAmazon, wherever platform you
get it on, please get it.
It's a resource to help.
Any last words I don't want tosay last words, but any

(01:14:09):
concluding words for thissession that you would like to
give, whether it's somebody whois all out of ducks, is it
somebody who is beginning thisjourney, or somebody who's
contemplating, or somebody whowants to start the journey,
because they want answers.

Speaker 3 (01:14:27):
You know the platform is yours for your Sasha's words
of wisdom.
Yeah, I think just to rememberthat any feelings you have are
valid and any feelings otherpeople have are valid are valid
and any feelings other peoplehave are valid.
And so there can be a dialecticof those where you can feel
multiple ways at once and youneed to give yourself grace and
you also need to acknowledgethat other people can have a
multitude of emotions, includingyour children, all at once, and

(01:14:49):
that that's okay.
And if we are all out of ducks,you know I can say that and I
can still have every love in theworld and you know, ram a bus
for my kids, you know, at thesame time as being exhausted by
them and tired, and so I thinkthere's an idea if you're
complaining about your journeyor where you're at, you're not

(01:15:11):
grateful for it, and I thinkthat that couldn't be more from
the truth.
So I think, like the parentsyou work with with children who
are struggling, it's it's okayto be struggling and it's okay
to say you're struggling andit's okay to be all out of ducks
, and no parent in the worldwill ever think less of you and
your children will ever thinkless of you because of that and,

(01:15:33):
I think, more of my parents,because they told me when they
were all out of ducks and theywere honest, because I can now
tell them and it's just, it'snormal that helps.

Speaker 1 (01:15:44):
That helps so many times.
We try and paint this perfectinside the lines illustration
and that's sometimes thefurthest from the truth.

Speaker 3 (01:15:54):
Yeah, color outside the lines, do it all.
Yeah, color outside the lines.
Do it all Just throw a bunch ofseeds out in the wind.
See what happens.

Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
Broken crayons still color.

Speaker 3 (01:16:02):
Exactly.
I love that Broken crayonsstill color.
And remember to be your kid'scoach, not playing next to them.
They'll play the game.

Speaker 1 (01:16:09):
There, it is that part right there.
Well, we thank everybody forinvesting time.
I know that you were empoweredby this discussion.
I'm John and I'm Lisa.
I'm Sasha.
We are all adopted.
And again, please send us anyfeedback.

(01:16:31):
You have Hit the like, hit theshare.
Just get the information out.
Go out and support Sasha withthe book on TikTok.
Follow her.
I'm a fan, so I'm going to bewatching getting updates on it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:52):
And also if you want to share your story or your
journey, please reach out to us.

Speaker 1 (01:16:54):
You can find us on Instagram and TikTok and
Facebook all these platformsalright, thank y'all thank you
until next time, until the nextepisode thank you for listening
to the Soul of Adopted podcast.

(01:17:16):
We hope that this wasinformative and educational.
Thank you for listening to theso I'm Adopted podcast.
We hope that this wasinformative and educational.
You can follow us on Instagramand Facebook at so I'm Adopted.
Also, subscribe to our YouTubechannel, so I'm Adopted.
And again, thank you forlistening and until next time,
make the choice to begin yourhealing journey.