Exploring Identity and Family: The Intricate Tapestry of Adoption and Marriage

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What happens when adoption intersects with marriage? Join us as we explore this question through the lens of our own relationships, with our significant others, Janice and Titus, lending their insights. From uncovering family secrets to navigating complex emotions, our 13th chapter marks a milestone in understanding the profound effects of adoption on personal identity and family dynamics. Through personal stories and candid conversations, we emphasize the necessity of open communication and understanding in nurturing these unique relationships.

The secrets and revelations of adoption create ripples across generations. We share experiences of how differing approaches to adoption disclosure have influenced our identities and family dynamics. With contrasting stories, including feelings of exclusion due to visible differences and the comfort of early adoption awareness, we illuminate the complex tapestry of adoptive family experiences. The narrative spans reactions of adoptive parents, the struggle for identity, and the emotional journeys tied to discovering biological roots, where chosen families often step in to fill emotional voids left by loss or secrecy.

 We discuss the impact of family trauma and loss, exploring how meaningful conversations can foster healing and resilience. The power of chosen families in providing support during both challenging and celebratory times is highlighted, emphasizing a new sense of belonging. As the festive season unfolds, we invite you to reflect on the importance of intentional relationships and the transformative journey of embracing your roots with grace and empathy.

Music by Curtis Rodgers IG @itsjustcurtis
Produce and Edited by Lisa Sapp
Executive Producer Lisa Sapp
Executive Producer Johnnie Underwood

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Welcome to the so I'm Adopted podcast, where we talk
everything adoption.
This journey is not one we takealone.
Together we grapple with rawemotions that surface from
adoption stories.
We want you to be comfortableenough to heal, so sit back and
go with us on this journey as wedive deep into adoption.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
So we want to welcome you to our next edition of our
podcast and, if you notice, wehave some other faces with us.
We do, and this was intentional.
We talked about this in ourfirst podcast, when we sat down
on the couch, yes, and we sharedour stories, and now we're at a
place where we have oursignificant others with us.

Speaker 4 (01:03):
Yes, and you know what, john?
What's up?

Speaker 3 (01:06):
This is our 13th episode 13th episode on the 14th
day of December, december.
We could have just said it wasthe 13th day, but who really
knows, because it's not going toget posted later.
But anyway, we're going to stayfocused.
So I want to introduce the loveof my life, my wife Janice.

(01:27):
Hey, janice, how are you?

Speaker 4 (01:29):
Hello everyone, so happy to be here.
Thank you for the invitation.
John and Lisa, have we met?

Speaker 3 (01:36):
I was about to say good gracious, this is real,
this happens, it's okay, takeyour time.
Your hands are sweating.
It's okay.
It's okay, take your time.

Speaker 4 (01:47):
Your hands are sweating.
It's okay, it's the velvet.
That's what it is, is it velvet?

Speaker 3 (01:50):
What is that Velvet?

Speaker 4 (01:51):
What is that, velvet?
You see, we just have a goodtime.

Speaker 3 (01:53):
Got to have fun.

Speaker 4 (02:00):
And on my side, here is my rib, my husband Titus.
Yeah, that would be right.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
I saw it when it came out.
It's okay.

Speaker 4 (02:07):
We're all nervous, we're okay, but this is Titus.
Say hi to the good folks.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
Hello good folks, how y'all doing?
Oh yeah, Glad to be here.

Speaker 4 (02:16):
And we're glad to have y'all.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
Absolutely Fun episode it's going to be a fun
episode.
Yes, if you've been journaling,journaling, journeying, if
you've been with us throughoutour episodes, you know that we
created a space to talk aboutour journeys in life,
non-traditional relationships,and we started off.
We had Lisa, had this mindsetof John we need to talk about

(02:40):
our story, and she was veryconsistent, as I stated, and 13
episodes later, we're here.
And to start off, I just wantto tell you I got a call from a
gentleman.
I'm not going to share his name.
He's a humble guy but he said hewas calling to check on me.
And then at the end of the callhe said hey, john.
He said, man, listen what youand Lisa are doing, thank you.

(03:02):
And I said what you and Lisaare doing, thank you.
And I said one I didn't evenknow that he watched the podcast
, right?
He said I have individuals Iwork with watching it because
they're wrestling withrelationships and to get that
nugget, it just it humbled mebecause one, like I said, I

(03:23):
wasn't even aware that hewatched it.

Speaker 4 (03:26):
Right.

Speaker 3 (03:27):
So we just wanted to create a space where people can
talk about what they're goingthrough.
We've identified that thisadoption I don't want to say
thing, but this adoption entity,space, yeah, space impacts many
different people in manydifferent ways and often they

(03:47):
don't get talked about.
So when we first started, weshared our stories.
But then, when you really startto understand relationships,
there are three sides to everystory yours, theirs, then the
truth yep right, and what wewanted to do was give space to
our significant others.
Because if you remember ourstories, go back to the first

(04:10):
episode shameless blood,shameless blood.
They have a different anglebecause we had a level of
excitement, because it was ourstory.
Our story yes, they were on thesideline watching even though
they were a part of it.
Yes, so we wanted to bringelinewatching, even though they were
part of it.
Yes, so we wanted to bring themto the table, just so that they
can share what they saw, whatthey experienced.

(04:31):
And then also their perspectiveand also how Us being adopted
impacts our relationship,because there are things that
lay dormant, that often we don'ttalk about, we don't call them
what they are, and I'll behonest, I'll be transparent.
First, there were a lot ofthings that I didn't really

(04:51):
understand, until we continue tojust live this life and walk
this journey, and then I beganto understand that, oh, this is
why I respond that way, this iswhy I'm reacting that way,
respond that way.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
This is why I'm reacting that way.

Speaker 3 (05:05):
Now, I didn't tell her for a while because that's
just me trying to process it anda little bit of pride being
right there.
I'm going to call it what it is.

Speaker 4 (05:11):
But I have some good examples.

Speaker 3 (05:14):
That's why we have editing.

Speaker 4 (05:17):
Bam and I'm the editor, so bam.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
I was about to say something.
I was about to say somethingand it's so powerful because I
never forget.
I was working at thealternative school.
Right after I found out somekind of way, Titus called me and
he said John, you need to getwith Lisa, and that's when I

(05:44):
found out that you were adopted,you know.
So it's the significant otherhas pieces of the puzzle and, as
you share with your story,Titus had all the goods, yeah.

Speaker 4 (05:55):
Well, how long did we know each other before we
realized we both were adopted?
Can you recall?

Speaker 3 (06:01):
I know it was yeah, it had been a while, because I
didn't know, because it flooredme.

Speaker 4 (06:07):
Yeah, I didn't know that you were either, probably
Because that's not the firstthing you talk about in
conversation.

Speaker 3 (06:14):
You know, what I'm saying.
That's not the first thing.
You don't just walk around withthat card.

Speaker 4 (06:17):
Hey, I'm adopted.
Hey, I'm adopted.
You know, you don't know untilyou really get to know someone
and get to know their story, oryou know their truth or what not
.
But it was years before we knewthat we were both adopted,
hence the title so I'm adoptedso we'll start off with this
question and I'll pose it totitus.

Speaker 3 (06:34):
First.
Tell us when you found out lisawas adopted uh, yeah, that was
a funny situation.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
So so we went to go visit Lisa's grandmother.
Mm-hmm, we're sitting in theliving room, we're talking.
I think Lisa was over.
She was over in the dining area.
Mm-hmm, I'm sitting theretalking to Grandma Having a
conversation.
She looks at me.
Y'all haven't been here tovisit me.
She's talking about Grandma.

(07:04):
We just came saw you like aweek and a half ago.
Okay, I understand, you knowshe was struggling with dementia
and all the different things.
So she said it a few times andso and she's like, well, I
remember when they brought Lisahome from the hospital, I said
okay, just letting her gowherever I thought she was.

(07:25):
But evidently she was in aLucid state and she was in a
good state, in a good state In agood state.
Because the next thing she saidout of her mouth was it was what
I actually questioned.
I said okay, well, yeah, okay.
You remember, when they broughther home from the hospital, I
said okay, grandma, and she saidyes.
When they adopted her Okay,grandma, and she said yes.
When they adopted her.

Speaker 4 (07:46):
And I was like well, that's how she said it.
So now I'm trying to figure out.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
okay, where is she?
I just didn't know what tothink.
Was it just the two of you inthe room?
Just the two of us?
And she looked me straight inmy eyes.

Speaker 4 (08:02):
So you found out before Lisa found out.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
I did.
I did Drawdropping moment.
Okay, I really didn't have acomeback because I'm trying to
process what I just heard.
Okay, is this grandma or isthis her and her dementia?

Speaker 4 (08:27):
But did you know that when people are in that
dementia state, all truths comeout it?

Speaker 1 (08:32):
does, but that's something that you don't expect
to hear.
After us being married at thetime, what 20 plus years at the
time?

Speaker 4 (08:42):
Wow, and I've mentioned this before we both
grew up together, so ourfamilies are very close.

Speaker 3 (08:49):
I didn't know y'all grew up together.

Speaker 4 (08:51):
Yeah, I mean our father's from Virginia.
Our families know one another.
Yeah, our families know oneanother.
Same church Same church Grew upclose so everyone knew His mom
knew that you were adopted, thatI was.
Everyone knew that I wasadopted, except you Out of all
the people he didn't know and Ididn't.
You know what I'm saying.
We ended up marrying each other.

(09:13):
So after she mentioned that tome, I kind of settled it for
about, I don't know.
Yeah, overnight.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
I tossed and turned all night long Trying to figure
out.
Do I say something to Lisa atthis point?
How do I address what I justheard?
And I'm up 1 o'clock, 2 o'clock.
It was a bad night for me,sleeping-wise, just tossing and
turning with that.
So the next day I told him hisname, lisa.

(09:44):
I don't know how to tell youthis, but this is what grandma
said to me.
She said I sure remember whenthey brought you home from the
hospital when you were adopted,and so at that point it was like
well, we're going to thegrandma's house right now.
Five minutes, we were out thedoor.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
We were on the way to grandma's house now.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
Five minutes.
We were out the door On the wayto grandma's house, yep, and so
that's when Lisa asked herabout it, and Lisa told the
story.
You know how she had her.

Speaker 4 (10:14):
She looked at Titus.
I asked her the question.
I said you've been trying to,you know, talk to me for a
minute now, so let's talk.
I'm here, let's talk.
I said because Titus said youhad something to say.

Speaker 3 (10:27):
Going in there getting gangsta on grandma.
I had to get gangsta?

Speaker 4 (10:30):
I did.
And then she looked becauseTitus was like behind me and she
looked at Titus and she lookedback at me and she has a big bay
window.
She turned around and looked atme, crossed her legs and said I
don't know what you're talkingabout.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
Well, literally, she said, crossed her leg and said I
don't know what you're talkingabout.
Well, literally, she said Idon't know what you're talking
about and fluttered her eyes andlooked at the window.
I said oh, here we go, I'vebeen set up.
It just kind of went from there.

Speaker 4 (11:03):
Yeah, and I said, okay, you keep looking out your
window, that's alright, I knowwhere to go to get the truth and
the answer.
And I made a beeline to my eyes.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
I'm trying to protect Lisa, right, because I don't
want to say anything.
That maybe wasn't what she wastrying to really say.
But if I don't say anything andit comes out later, wasn't what
she was trying to really say.
But if I don't say anything andit comes out later and then
Lisa's like so you knew, I wasjust in a bad situation, you
were in a pickle?

Speaker 3 (11:34):
I was.
So here's the question for LisaWith him bringing you that
information, what's the firstthought that came to you?
What was the first question?
Is he lying?
I got to go talk to grandma.
What was it?

Speaker 4 (11:48):
Oh no, I got to go talk to grandma.

Speaker 3 (11:53):
It was because he brought it to you.
Okay, let's ride with it.

Speaker 4 (11:55):
Let's ride with it, because she's been hounding me
for months that she wanted totalk to me.

Speaker 3 (12:00):
Oh, she had.

Speaker 4 (12:01):
Yes, never said what it was about.
Never said what it was about,but every time I went over there
, oh, I want to talk to you, Iwant to talk to you, you know,
and she kept talking about how Ihelped take care of my mother's
mother, you know, during thoselater years.
So, you know, she just, I justthought that's what she wanted

(12:21):
to talk.
How good a daughter I was.
I guess that was in my mind.
But I felt that she's had thison her heart for a long period
of time, knowing that I did notknow, and I guess she felt that
before she leaves this earthshe's going to make sure I knew.
That's just my personal opinion.

Speaker 3 (12:41):
Let me tell you what's so powerful about and
again, this is where we start tounpack the relationships right,
Because that him presentingthat information to you had the
potential to really cause somestrife between you all, if you
think about it and I'm notsaying you all, I'm just in
general, Because a lot of times,especially in our cultures, we

(13:05):
don't talk about stuff, so thereare a lot of secrets that are
hidden around.
But you could have been to aplace you lie.
Why are you lying?
And it could have went leftfield.

Speaker 4 (13:15):
But because I think, back in my mind, I knew it was
some truth to it.
Oh, just, you know, when theysay when you're about to die or
something, your whole lifeflashes before your eyes.
So when he said that, certainthings I would say started

(13:36):
registering, clicking in my headfrom my past, from my childhood
, so I felt it was some kind oftruth to it.
So I felt it was some kind oftruth to it.
You know, just that littleflicker of believing it was
enough to for me to go, oh, plusher saying I need to talk to
you.
So what exactly?

(14:06):
Give me an example of one thingthat you remember way back in
the day.
Oh well, just and I'vementioned this before in a
podcast when I was in highschool, because I have an older
brother who's adopted as welland we're not blood related, but
our last name is very unique,so he's three years older than
me.
Again, my mom was light-skinned, he was light-skinned.
Here I come, this dark-skinnedgirl.
My dad really wasn't aroundschool.
My mom was PTA president, bampresident, all that stuff.
So she was always involved inschool with us.
So that's all they saw.

(14:27):
So here I come, in high schoolwith the last name.
They say are you our sister?
I'm like yeah, are you adopted?
I'm like no, I ain't adopted.
I look like my dad.
My dad was dark.
I have light brown eyes.
I'm dark.
I have light brown eyes.
My dad was dark.
I have a light brown house.
So that explained it.
I go home, tell my mom whatjust happened at school.

(14:49):
It's like, oh okay, well, I'mcooking this for dinner and you
know things like that.
It was a quick pivot, yeah, aquick pivot.
She didn't acknowledge it atall and I didn't think about it.
But when he said what he said,those little things started

(15:10):
coming back in my head.
When I was little, I was overmy aunt's house.
It was.
I have two other, um othercousins, that's about my age,
and we're playing on the swingset and he goes and that's why
you're.
I don't know why we weretalking about it, but he said
and that's why you're adopted.
And I ran in the house.
He said I was adopted.
She's like he don't know why wewere talking about it, but he
said and that's why you'readopted.
And I ran in the house.
He said I was adopted.
She's like he don't know whathe's talking about.
Go on back out there and play.

(15:31):
You know, little things likethat has happened in my life and
I always felt that I wasinvolved, but I wasn't involved.
Certain things would take placeor certain cousins would be
invited some places that Iwasn't, for whatever reason, and
I just couldn't put my fingeron it.

(15:51):
You know, because I have acousin, we're like this so she
was there but I wasn't there.
There's certain things tookplace that just didn't click to
me, but I never really had a, areason I just couldn't put to me
, but I never really had areason, I just couldn't put my
finger on it.
So when he said that, that'swhen that little bit of belief

(16:12):
I'm taking the ball and I'mrunning with it.
Right, and then on top of whatshe said.
So all it wasn't one thing, itwas a combination of things that
took place throughout my life,wow.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
That's amazing.

Speaker 3 (16:26):
So let's jump to the other side of when you found out
I was adopted.

Speaker 4 (16:28):
Yes, let's hear what was it that I mean?
Because did you know before yougot married that he was adopted
, or just happened after you allgot married?
So, even as I'm listening toyou all's story, I think John's
couldn't be more different.
John being adopted was an openpiece of information that he's

(16:54):
had his whole life, and he cameto me and told me, as we were
dating, what it was almost like.
What's your favorite color?
What's your favorite food?
We just out.
Just getting to know each other,getting to know each other and
it was just something that was apart of the tapestry of who

(17:18):
Johnny Hughes Underwood III isand it wasn't a secret for him
growing up, so it wasn't asecret during our courtship.
Courtship, yes, ok, that ishuge, but I didn't catch that.
But probably the more, the moreaha moments that we had were we

(17:48):
had were in terms of awkwardmoments would be little comments
when we would be out and about,whether we were around family
or not, where people would sayyou know, johnny, you look just
like your mama, carolynUnderwood.
Oh really, and people would saythings like that or I don't
know how you got to be so tallwith your daddy so short.
So did these people know?
No, Some people did Some peopledid, some people didn't, but

(18:09):
largely this is coming frompeople who didn't necessarily
know, that were on theperipheral Gotcha.
So then everyone who did knowwho were in the presence of the
comment, it was almost like wewould be with his mom or dad.
There would be no correctionLike, oh, what's on the menu?

(18:33):
Correct To your point ofpivoting.
It was almost like, yep, suredo.
Looks just like me.

Speaker 3 (18:37):
My dad would say, because I got strong genes.

Speaker 4 (18:42):
I would pick up on these subtle it was.
I would pick up on this.
I would pick up on these subtlesort of.
We haven't quite dealt with thetrauma of how this could come
out in a, in a mixedconversation, a mixed company.
But because it wasn't a secretto John, because he knew all his

(19:06):
, most of his life, and thenit's not necessarily a secret to
the inter-family, so why was it?
What do you think preventedthem from saying, oh no, because
he's adopted.

Speaker 3 (19:20):
Right then and there so I think, as she's telling the
story and I'm listening whathit me, knowing how my mom's
thought process was, I thinkthat she said her mindset was
I'm going to tell him and then Iain't got to deal with it.
No more Truth is out, so be it.
I can see that being thementality versus.

(19:41):
I don't want to have to havethis conversation 13 years from
now, where now I got to do a lotof explaining.
If I tell you from thebeginning and you already know
now, you know, keep it moving.

Speaker 4 (19:51):
But not necessarily you.
But I'm talking about thepeople who were making the
statements of oh you look likeCarolyn, oh you're so tall.
I don't know why those peopleat that moment, given moment in
time they could have said, havesaid well, because he was
adopted well.
I would just jump in thisdouble dutch to say that I could
see a little bit of pain in herface.

(20:11):
I think that that's what I meanby we haven't dealt with the
trauma of it.
So I told him I did what Ithought was right when he was
little because, literally whenshe told him, John just went
right outside back to play right.
so he just pivoted, kind of likehow your mom was just like
what's for dinner?
Yeah, right.
So even years later, when wegot married and I instigated

(20:39):
probably the all right, let'sfind your birth family, his mom
was totally against it, shut itdown.
She shut it down.
And I think that it speaks toher feelings of being threatened
Like no, I'm his mother and aslong as I'm alive, I'm his
mother and I don't want anyonecoming in here taking that place

(21:01):
.
And that's exactly what how mymother approached it, because
even in her death, no one saidanything.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
No one.
You say that their cases aredifferent, but the parents'
mindset is the same.

Speaker 3 (21:17):
Exactly how it was brought out was different, but
that trauma piece is the same.

Speaker 4 (21:24):
What was interesting, though, is, after carolyn
underwood passed away, we'redriving home from a family
reunion from alabama, and it'sset the stage.
It's me and john pop underwoodand jaylen jordan in the car,
and, as we're driving home, Idon't know what placed it on

(21:45):
John's heart to say this but,pop, I want to find my birth
family.
Are you okay with that?
Because I know mom shut it downyears before and, interestingly
, he said yes, I want to knowtoo.
Well, the thing is, you got tokeep in mind how women think and
how men think, because I know,if it was opposed To my father

(22:11):
in that sense, if I had alreadyknown, I believe that he would
have like yeah, but when itcomes to the mothers, that's a
different story, it's adifferent connection, because I
do know that I believe my fathertried to tell me before he died
he just couldn't do it.
He couldn't do it, Wow, Becausehe knew at that point whether he

(22:36):
knew before or not that I knewbecause my mom pretty much
controlled when it came to us,she pretty much controlled that
when it came to my brother and I.
So I feel that you know hereally tried, because he may
have thought that she told himit's not like they were going to

(22:56):
.
They sat us down together andsaid okay, you're adopted.
If it was going to happen, itwas nine times out of just.
My mom won't tell us, I'm justbeing for real, Because my
father was a very quiet, quietman, but when he spoke everybody
listened.
But when it came to us she wasreally in control.
So I don't think if it wasopposed to him in that manner

(23:19):
that I had already known he waslike yeah, that's fine with me,
but because he knew for 100percent that she didn't tell us,
he tried to tell us because hissiblings Well, I know my aunt
was trying to say you need totell her, you need to tell them,
and I think he really tried.
I really truly believe he tried, but he just couldn't do it.

(23:40):
But he just couldn't do it.
So, getting back to to John'sstory, I'll just share with you
that.
You know, because it was Idon't I call it an open secret
only because of that nuance ofwe didn't talk about it with.
We didn't talk about it withoutsiders because they would say

(24:03):
oh, you look just like yourmother.
Oh, look, picture.
They will hold up pictures ifthey were looking at pictures
together of the two of them.
And so that's what I mean by anopen secret.
Many of us on on his side ofthe family, we all knew right.
And then there would be kind ofthis awkward looking around
like nobody corrected it,because it was almost like John

(24:25):
was such a special and ifCarolyn didn't say, because
she's the only one who could sayRight, and if she didn't?

Speaker 1 (24:32):
say anything everyone would have fallen in line.

Speaker 4 (24:34):
Everyone fell in line , and John was the coveted child
.
I mean, she did everything forhim.
And I think Johnny Underwood Jrjust fell in line because, this
was the gift that God had givenher and to her.
Because of that gift from God,because of that spiritual belief
and connection and relationshipwith God, it was almost like

(24:58):
she believed that there was afusing of genetics Like this is
my genetic child, this person ismy child, so in every way,
including biological.
So when we, when we havechildren, when we have children

(25:19):
carolina was still alive and thegirls don't know, so I think
the bigger story here for us, ohso, they didn't know, they
didn't know.
oh well, that's another podcastwith our kids, because our, my
kids didn't know either.
So them being at our familyfunctions.
Part of that open secret wasthe children don't know, and

(25:46):
they are toddlers and you know,by the time they actually do
find out.
I can't remember exactly how oldthey were, but we literally sat
them down In our home and weshared the news with them in our
home and we share the news withthem, and I can only liken it

(26:13):
to how it must have felt for youto find out as a child, because
that's the only sort of we haveto tell you that your father's
adopted and the incredible sortof downward truth that that
meant for them.
So, gammy, carolyn, what she'snot my, my biological

(26:36):
grandmother also, what does thatmean for me?
Oh, yeah, because it.
No, I'm like, yes, becausethat's the same thing that
happened with Art.
They were, they were Distraught,they were distraught.
They were saying, oh, this isnot me, this is not us.
Correct, it's a lot, it's a lot, it's a lot for them.
And then you have to like say,ok, wait a minute, you're still

(26:58):
are, your parents, are still whothey are.
It's us, that's the one who wasadopted.
It doesn't change anything foryou, but it does change their
thought process of the rest oftheir and the perception of the
rest of the family with them.

Speaker 1 (27:14):
From their point of view, it does change for them.

Speaker 4 (27:17):
It changes for them, lisa, and let me just how old
were your three.

Speaker 1 (27:22):
The way the kids found out was yeah, no one sat
anyone down.

Speaker 4 (27:27):
They discovered it.
They discovered it Also.
Jayla and Jordan were veryyoung.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
Yeah, I think TC was like.

Speaker 4 (27:35):
I think Jasmine may have been in high school, maybe
a freshman in high school.
I think Maya was in middleschool.
These kids were still inelementary school.
Maybe a freshman in high school.
I think Maya was in middleschool.
These kids were still inelementary school.
Yeah, I think they were very,very young, and so that
perception was like, wait aminute, so granddad's not our
real granddad, and so we wouldhave to change our lexicon and

(27:57):
our vocabulary.
That's your real granddad,that's his dad, that's his
mother, right, that is yourgrandmother and grandfather, or
granddad and grandma.
And so managing theirpsychological safety in the
family was really, reallyimportant.
But probably the more traumaticthing for us is when Carolyn

(28:18):
Underwood died and then later mymother died.
There was this incrediblegaping hole.
It was like we don't have thatpraying grandmother and they she
died so young, um, and thegirls were still very, very
young, young elementary school.
So they found out very earlyelementary school and what I

(28:40):
mean by early, like kindergartenor first grade.
And then when they, when CarolynUnderwood died, it was more
like they were in third andfourth grade.
So this idea of I've lost mypraying grandmother, who is so
close to us not onlypsychologically and mentally but

(29:04):
geographically, because she wasthe grandmother in Virginia,
right yeah, so she was closest.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
She was here.

Speaker 4 (29:12):
It was.
It was so traumatic for them.
So they would have almost and Idon't know if you can relate to
this or not, but they wouldhate going around family
functions where their cousinshad their grandmother.
They would hate going tochurches where their grandkids

(29:33):
would have their grandmother.
They would see it.
Even in our extended crewfamily.
They would see those who hadtheir grandmother or how is this
grandmother doing?
How's that grandmother doing?
We're going to go see grandma,so-and-so.
And it was almost like youcould see them clench up and
just hate to be around.
Wow, I didn't realize that.

Speaker 1 (29:58):
That explains some other things.
This can go so many differentways.
Yeah, because when you heardifferent things, you're like oh
, and so you understand why theyalways felt like they really
weren't connected, correct?

Speaker 4 (30:14):
And they tried so hard to be part of our extended
crew family.
They wanted to be included.
Extended crew family, theywanted to be included, they
wanted to be, you know, feellike a part of, or that sense of
belonging because they did nothave, and then shortly, like
almost immediately, my mompassed away, right, so they just
lost on both sides and see, thedifference between our kids is

(30:38):
is that the only one who reallyexperienced my adoptive mother
was Jasmine, and she was.
So.
When she died, jasmine was six,she was six, maya was three,
and then, of course, tc wasn'there yet.
So, and then you know, maya,her memory is very, very, very

(31:01):
minimal and Jasmine was the onlyone who really had an
opportunity to be with her andshe's sick.
So how much of a memory do youhave?

Speaker 1 (31:10):
of that right.

Speaker 4 (31:10):
So growing up they had his mom, their meemaw, so
she was there and she was enoughto fill that space for them,
for both grandmothers, you know.
I.

Speaker 3 (31:22):
That's what you mean by call me.

Speaker 4 (31:24):
Yes, oh, my God, yes.
And she, because she knew mymother.
They were very close, so it waseasy for her to be able to talk
about my mom, to them becauseshe had her own personal
relationship.

Speaker 3 (31:37):
She was able to share the stories and they still had
a presence.
Yes, that was inputted in.

Speaker 4 (31:41):
I don't even know why I'm tearing up, but I am
tearing up Because it's emotionwhy?
Don't we have tissues here?

Speaker 3 (31:46):
So here's the thing.

Speaker 4 (31:47):
Because normally we don't cry.
Okay, right.

Speaker 3 (31:51):
Just in listening, we talk about the nontraditional
relationships and how, as adults, we've had many opportunities
to recover, even though we don'talways take advantage of it.
And I'm going somewhere withthis the children in their
innocence, and I'm justlistening to both.

(32:11):
Like you said, yours didn'treally have ours had for a
moment and it was snatched away.
But then you see how it impactsthem in other circles, how this
hurt.
They generalize it into otherspaces and it just to me
illustrates that, why it's thatimportant to have intentional,

(32:33):
open communication within yourfamily.
Yes, and I think this isanother reason why this space is
so important, because theprinciples behind what we're
sharing can help anybody.
There are lots of things thathappen within families that need
to be addressed and need to betalked about.

(32:54):
What happens after someonetransitions?
After the funeral, most peoplego back to business as usual.
The families left to piece ittogether.
Well, for me, I was trying tofigure out how to navigate the
space after Carlin passed away.
Didn't do a good job at all,but then my kids watched, so now

(33:18):
I'm modeling for them what todo, so they've picked up some
bad habits.
In addition to now I'm goingaround where I don't have a
grandmother, because both ofmine have transitioned and I
don't want to hang with youbecause you taking your grandma
for granted or you doing youknow what I'm saying.
So they picking up on littlethings but they don't have the

(33:38):
language to say I just lost mygrandmother.
That's very insensitive, or youneed to appreciate because you
know what I'm saying.
I'm just, I'm listening and it'sjust like you said, unlocking
so many different things.
I'm looking back to some of theprobably unintentional hurt
that we expose our kids to notunderstanding where they were.

(34:02):
That's just when you knowbetter, you do better.
You know.
So, hopefully, further down theline, long time from now, in
the galaxy far away, when ourkids have kids we can A galaxy
far away we can hopefully givethem some parenting nuggets.
Maybe we need to do a book,maybe that's the phone, maybe we

(34:24):
need to do a book.
Maybe we need to do a book justto help with.

Speaker 4 (34:28):
Breaking those generational curses.
And let me just also say thatyou know, I know this podcast is
about non-traditionalrelationships.
Whether it's so, I'm adoptedand I want to give a plug to the
amazing title, but it doescreate and you all's journeys,

(34:54):
and it seems, like many of yourguests over these past several,
you know seasons this past 12episodes.
It forces you to create yourchosen family and what I love
about one of the things thatcame out, or benefit that our
kids have had, is this chosenfamily here, right, our extended

(35:14):
chosen family that people don'tunderstand, right?
I think people think, oh yeah,they're just.
You know, they all went tochurch together and somehow it's
so much deeper than that it'sdeeper.
So many layers, so many layers.
Yes, and I remember whenCarolyn Underwood passed away,

(35:39):
all the guys you know rushed upto Richmond to be in that
hospital.

Speaker 3 (35:44):
And then she took her last breath.

Speaker 4 (35:46):
I remember us as a family coming together for
whatever the crisis was, butalso the good times, so many
good times.
Bourbon slush yes, the bourbonslush.

Speaker 3 (36:02):
Summertime bourbon slush.
The mango bourbon slush.

Speaker 4 (36:03):
Summertime bourbon slush the mango bourbon slush a
long time ago our cruisingescapades, our all of our
vacation shenanigans wherever wemay, wherever it took us, but I
say that to say, because ofthose incredible deficits, that

(36:30):
Something beautiful came out ofit.
Something beautiful came out ofit, because if we went down the
path that we I'm not going tosay that because we went down
the path we were supposed to godown but if we went down the
path staying with our biologicalfamily, none of this would be
here, correct, I can guaranteethat.
Correct, none of us would be.
Our crew wouldn't be inexistence.

(36:52):
Uh, none of this would be here.
We would not be having thisconversation, correct, and it
just lets you and make youappreciate that just because we
are not genetically bound, it'swe are each other's chosen
family and I do feel likethere's some type of
supernatural bonding of us thatgod placed.

(37:14):
Oh, absolutely so.
So when jaylen, jordan go outand say, hey, I'm going out with
my cousins, they don't say oh,oh, my play-play cousins.
They say my cousins.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
You try to tell them you're not really your cousins.

Speaker 4 (37:29):
Correct To that earlier point there's no
correction when someone wouldsay oh.
Johnny Underwood, you look justlike Carolyn Underwood.
No correction, no correction.
My cousins are coming over toget me ready for prom.
Wood, you look just likecarolyn underwood.
No correction, no correction.
Yes, you know, my cousins arecoming over to get me ready for
prom or they're, you know that'sall they know, that's all they
know I can't wait till I grow up, till my cousins come over to

(37:52):
prom because they watch, and sothat has helped.
I'm not, you know, fill thatvoid.
It hasn't, um, completelyerased the void, because you can
, even as adults here, you canlook at jaylen jordan and say,
you know, fill that void, ithasn't completely erased the
void, because you can, even asadults here you can look at
Jalen Jordan and say, you know,I could see a little bit why, or
I understand, you know maybewhy they're reserved or why, you
know, whatever the case may be,but I can definitely say that

(38:15):
it has helped.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
Absolutely you know.
And then there's that sidewhere you know there's always
that good side, but then there'salways that ugly side of the
whole, realizing that youradoption, that you adopted.
I just watched Lisa go througha phase where the kids was it's

(38:42):
all I know to be mine.
It's all I know to be mine.
It's all I know to be mine.
This is the only blood that Iknow of and that took a
different turn Just with the waywe disciplined.
You know it, it, it.

(39:03):
In that whole, whole processthere was a wedge that was put
there what do you mean by wedgewith our marriage?

Speaker 3 (39:12):
mm-hmm because did she recognize that it was
because of?

Speaker 1 (39:17):
well, but it wasn't a different.

Speaker 4 (39:18):
I was in a different mindset, especially when, where
those are mine, and then when I,when I it really put a wedge in
it when I found my mother, andI don't know if you can attest
to this, but when you find yourbiological mother, you revert

(39:39):
back to being a kid, a child.

Speaker 3 (39:41):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 4 (39:42):
Your mind is like childlike Mind you.
I'm a grown adult, married kidsdog, you name it, but I was all
consumed with her.

Speaker 3 (39:54):
It's almost like you're trying to make up for
lost time.

Speaker 4 (39:56):
A lot of lost time.
I'm just consumed and no oneelse mattered at all.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
She found her mother.

Speaker 4 (40:02):
We still had seven years, we had seven years where
I just really honed in on mykids and held tight.

Speaker 3 (40:10):
Held real tight.
What was the catalyst or theturning point that made you go?

Speaker 4 (40:15):
into that zone, because that's all I knew,
because at that time, youremember, I just felt that my
whole entire life.
So this happened right afteryou found out.
Right after I found out, that'swhat I knew, because at that
time, you remember, I just feltthat my whole entire life so
this happened right after youfound out, right after I found
out.

Speaker 3 (40:27):
That's what I remember she said seven years
they didn't find out seven years.

Speaker 4 (40:31):
Okay, it was a minute before I found out who my
biological mother was and thenyou know, I'm just like, well,
that's not my family, I mean,and, mind you, my dad's family.
He's the oldest of 11 kids andthey all had kids, and there's a
lot of them that are still hereliving in Virginia.
So I have a lot of cousins,right, I have a lot of cousins.

(40:54):
That's here, and I just, youknow, like I said, you know I
kind of like pushed back onquite a few things when it came
to the family.
Don't ask me to do it.
It affected our marriage it did.

Speaker 1 (41:07):
Because now I'm bothered because so many people
knew you want to be protectednow, and so now I'm like why are
we here Now, lisa's in thisworld with the kids?
I'm in this world with the kids.
I'm in this world right, andI'm mad at all of this right

(41:32):
because of the way I felt like Igot thrown into it not only
that you see the hurt that she'sgot.

Speaker 4 (41:38):
Oh man, it was, it was terrible but could you, in
the midst of her holding on sotight this is before meeting the
biological mother Could youlogically see that you know what
.
I'm going to give her somegrace because I think she's
doing this or this particularargument today is because she's

(42:01):
like this is my biological andyou could articulate it and go.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
you know what I did that for a little while, but it
just was so much just going on.
It was a lot going on.
I did not have the language orthe capacity to handle it.
I'm working in the policedepartment.

Speaker 3 (42:25):
You didn't even recognize it for what it was.

Speaker 4 (42:27):
Exactly.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
I had things, it was just compound.
Now I'm dealing with what'shappened to my wife, to the
secrets that were held back tonow, where it has turned into a
devastating situation for us.

(42:50):
The way we're looking at it,because I've watched this go
from being that loving personand being the one to set up
everything to being that personthat I just I don't want to be
bothered, I don't want to bebothered.

Speaker 4 (43:05):
I don't want to be bothered.
There's enough of us out here.
Go get them.
Well, one of the things that Ifound interesting because it was
an open secret and then, oncethe girls knew we've never held
secrets from the girls we wouldalways tell them in our house.
The culture of our home is wedon't hold secrets because I
never wanted them to somethingto happen to them at school or

(43:28):
happen to them, you know, with afamily member and then they
don't tell us.
Or you know the thing that weall dread no secrets.
And but when I did havechildren Like, or when we had

(43:53):
children, I was like what isbeing exposed today?
When we had children.
One of the things and this isthis is what I mean by it's a
little different because he wasadopted, I believe he a couple
of things happened for john andI'm watching on the outside
looking in.
He is so excited to have hisfirst biological relative in

(44:19):
jail.
He told it to everybody.
He's like this is so.
It was in real time and ofcourse I know he's told the
story in recent episode, pastepisodes, where you know the
doctor's asking us what's yourmedical history?
We don't know.
We don't know if she has sicklecell trait or whatever the case
may be, and that's whatactually sparked me to go look

(44:40):
for his biological family backin 2006.
But the interesting thing for usis that I would share is that
John held so tight to Jayla andJordan when they came.
It was almost like I don't knowif you all remember he'd be in

(45:04):
church and he'd be the one tohold him the whole time.
You know, like that proud mamawhere you wanted to hold your
baby in church.
Oh, can I see the baby?
That was him.
I distinctly remember he wasdoing a program in the evening
and, um, that is a churchprogram and and're all there,

(45:25):
the whole extended family, thewhole crew, and John was holding
the baby.
I said John, I got the baby andeveryone was like Janice, why
you got John holding the baby?
I'm like he wants to hold thebaby, janice, don't you know
he's working, he can't hold thebaby.
He tried to grab the baby andwalk around the baby.
He was holding on so tight andI caught hell because it was

(45:49):
like you're not being asupportive wife, mother, like
take the baby while John is upon stage or something.
So I say that to say what thattransition to actually, though,
when they came out of infantbaby stages stages is, john
would get jealous of the girlsand the wedge that would happen

(46:10):
in our marriage was that if Icome home I've worked all day,
I'm in my PhD classes, Iwouldn't get home until 10
o'clock at night.
If they happened to be up and Iwent and said hello to them
first, cause they run to thedoor, cause they hear me and

(46:31):
he's still in the, you'resupposed to say hello to me
first you know he would get kindof jealous of them because I
would pour in at the motherthing you know that mother
bonding he would get really,really, really jealous of the
girls, john, cause it seems likeyou had something to say in

(46:52):
contrast to that.

Speaker 3 (46:57):
I'm not going to disagree.
There were moments at the timeI didn't, like you said, have
the capacity and the language toreally express the why behind
it Jealousy is such a negativepart.

Speaker 4 (47:13):
Such a strong word.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
To me there's levels of jealousy.
Correct and what it was.
If that makes sense, I want itto be, and I'll tell you where
it stems from.
I want it to be the priority.
I remember what was modeled forme.
My dad would come in the houseand I remember crawling to the
door and he would acknowledge mymother first.
So there was a level of well,this is out of order.

(47:39):
Or, at the end of the day,looking back, I can just
appreciate having a wife thatloved her kids, that would pour
into them.
So it was growing pains for me,me dealing with, you know only
child syndrome, as I said, beingso, so sensitive that they call

(48:02):
me so just really unpackingthat's taken out, unpacking a
lot of different emotions butnot really wanting to vocalize
where it stems from.
Because a lot of times, mosttimes, we don't like to deal
with the root of problems.

(48:22):
We don't like to get our handsdirty in the dirt, we want to
deal with the surface and pluck,and then it just re-sprouts.
We don't want to go down anddig it up so it doesn't reoccur.

Speaker 4 (48:31):
And so that reoccurring, or that root issue
was that feeling of inadequacy.
It was that feeling of I'm notenough or I don't have that
sense of belonging.
I don't know who my familyreally is, I don't know where I
come from and Jayla and Jordando Right, and so we would have
conversations and we would, wewould interrogate you know his

(48:55):
feelings about like, becausethere would be a little argument
right after that.
It would, it would like like atinderbox, yeah, and so then we
would have to unpack, like Johnsaid, and say finally we would
dig it up and we would get tothe root, said and say finally
we would dig it up and we wouldget to the root.
And it always came back to I'madopted and I don't get to have
the feeling of psychologicalsafety that you have had that

(49:18):
jaylen, jordan have are havingand experiencing right now.
I wanted this, this is what Ithought I had, um, and, and now
it's not, even though he knewearly on but to see it in real
time, to see what it looked like, how it makes you feel
emotionally.
He was proud, a proud daddy.

(49:38):
He was there when they wereborn.
He saw the babies come outphysically.
So he knew this is biological,his biological genetic family.
But it was almost like this isa gift that I'll never have.
I'll never have.

(49:59):
I'll never because you'll never.
And the thing is, the thingsthat we go through you guys will
never be able to understandbecause you've never experienced
being on the other side.
Yeah, right, you know what I'msaying.
So how, our thought process Idon't know why I'm crying, but
our thought process is isdifferent than your thought

(50:20):
process, because you don't evenknow what you know and that's
your biological path that youwent down.
We, we don't have that Right,so we think differently.

Speaker 3 (50:33):
You know it's interesting and I'm sitting here
just reflecting.
I think sometimes for me therewas a shame to be.
I was ashamed to say I'm doingthis because I'm a doctor,
because it would have been veryeasy to say it, but I couldn't
for a long time say this is whyand I don't know if it was that

(50:57):
nuance, like we don't talk aboutBruno, we don't talk about it.
So you know, I I just, I don'tknow this.
I'm sitting here listening.
I'm like I believe you wouldhave understood if I said look,
I'm adopted.
And I'm like I believe youwould have understood if I said
look, I'm adopted.
And I just I don't have, Idon't understand, I can't write
Right and that would have beenthe safe safe card to play Right
.

Speaker 4 (51:16):
And they could understand that you're looking
at it from that, but they cannever really fully understand
the experience that you're goingthrough.
You know they can be empatheticto what we're going through,
but to really know, becauseyou're not really going through
it yourself, you're just you're.
You're because you love us.

Speaker 3 (51:37):
And maybe that's why I didn't share, because the
belief, well, you're not goingto understand when I tell you
anyway.
So why even tell you?
And again, that's a very Idon't want to say immature way
to look at it, but sometimeswhen you're in that tunnel by
yourself, that's all you can goon.

(51:57):
You only know what you know,and there's a lot of
safeguarding.
That goes on.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
Well, the gate comes up.

Speaker 4 (52:05):
Well, and I think that that has bonded almost you
and I, because we are thespouses of those who have been
adopted and I remember in ourcrew family, if something was
happening with John, forwhatever reason, someone might
say you know, you need to talkto Titus.
You need to talk to Titusbecause I think this has

(52:28):
something to do with it, likehe's been dealing with this a
little longer.
Um, and by that obviously we'veknown the whole time but the
trauma that how you all foundout it was, it's always been.
You should go talk to Titus,and I say that to say that I

(52:51):
have just appreciated watchinghow you all have moved in these
spaces, right the journey, andit's an onion because it unfolds
.
Hey, janice, I'm going to gomeet my so-and-so for the first
time, and that was just what amonth ago.
Yeah, like you're stillunwrapping this gift that is a
gift that keeps on giving, andso I say that to say that this

(53:14):
is a lifelong journey that we'reall on, and God has connected
us.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
Yeah.
Yeah, I agree, I agree, this isa this is a heavy.

Speaker 4 (53:28):
This is a heavy episode, y'all.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
It can go so many different places.
Yeah, right now we're justconcentrating on the adopted
part of it and how we felt whenwe all found out.
But as we talked, it trickledto the kids, it trickled to
marriage, it trickled to the wayyou move in life.
You know it's so many Non youknow it just is so many

(53:51):
non-traditional branchesnon-traditional relationships.
You can go so many ways and I'msure whenever y'all speak to the
kids, that's going to be awhole different conversation.
I know about kids.
Yeah, that's going to be, yeahsomething different.

Speaker 4 (54:06):
Yeah, because it's just the way they found out.
Yeah, because they yeahSomething different.
Yeah, because they interrogatedme why you didn't tell them
it's just true.
You know, they had the evidencein their hand and they just
caught me off guard.
Wow, I was like yes, and thenyeah.

Speaker 3 (54:24):
Wow, so I know we got to get ready to land the plane.
I always want to walk away withsome deliverables, some action
items, and this is a questionjust for anybody, with this
being the holiday season whenwe're recording, you may watch
it at any time.
Click that like button.

(54:44):
Share all that good stuff.
Yes, what advice would you give?
Good stuff?
Yes, what advice would you give?
And you all can speak from theperspective of supporting
someone who is going through thejourney of adoption, whether
they're just finding out or theywant to find out, whatever it
may be, because during theholidays it brings to the

(55:05):
surface a lot of emotions.
Um, because a lot, lot ofpeople just they don't know what
they don't know, so they'reused to.
Oh well, the holidays are this.
Well, the holidays aren't greatfor everybody, right?
Sometimes it may be a reminderof what you don't have.
Sometimes it may be a reminderthat your situation is not the
traditional situation.

(55:25):
If you could give someencouragement, words of wisdom
or something to those who arelistening, that may be wrestling
during this season, you know,what would you say to them?

Speaker 1 (55:40):
anybody, it doesn't, lisa you always have a way with
words.
Yeah, go ahead, janice, youalways have a way with words.

Speaker 4 (55:54):
Yeah, based upon what we've been through and survived
, I would say we're stronger aspeople, individually and
collectively.
Our marriage is stronger.
We've overcome so muchHindsight's 20-20.
So my advice to everyonewatching especially if you are
thinking about or you realize oryou just found out that you are

(56:18):
adopted or you are supporting aspouse or a partner that is
adopted, I would say approachthe relationship with curiosity,
and some of the things we'vetalked about today speak to that
, because right now you may nothave the language or the
capacity to understand that thislittle argument today about

(56:41):
who's cooking the yams is anargument that really stems from
this feeling of inadequacy thatgoes deeper in the pain of being
adopted and so on and so forth.
So thank you, lisa, forallowing John to cook the yams
today.
You're welcome.

Speaker 3 (56:59):
Oh wait a minute 30 second time out.

Speaker 4 (57:01):
How did I get put on blast?
But in those, in those, theybetter be good.
They're going to be better begood.
That's all I got to say.
But listen honestly, they'regoing to be good.

Speaker 3 (57:13):
They're going to be great.
I want to tell you that I hopeyour insurance plan is right,
because somebody's going to bitetheir finger off.

Speaker 4 (57:19):
Here's the.
This is what I mean byapproaching the non-traditional
relationships with curiosity, sothat you think you take the
time to think the best of theother person and so that that
argument, which is stemming froma place of hurt, really has
nothing to do with, probably,whatever you all are arguing

(57:40):
about on the surface.
So, as a spouse, what I had todo was really approach John with
a level of curiosity so I couldhelp unpack it.
So a lot of the times I had toleverage my own sort of
self-awareness to say, right nowI'm going to decrease, so I can
help John increase.
Let me allow him to get thetime he needs to get to the end

(58:06):
result of understanding why thisis happening.
Like it took him some minuteswe're arguing about whatever the
case may be and and I rememberour first year of marriage he
was like but get it, we'regetting a divorce.
He says these words to me.
So I sat back in the bed.
I was like, okay, whatever, andI just let him go off on his

(58:28):
tangent.

Speaker 3 (58:30):
You know the argument was Sweeping the floor.

Speaker 4 (58:33):
It was sweeping the floor and, like I knew, those
are the serious ones.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
I knew that this was the You're going to tell me I
can't sweep, I'm not going tosweep.

Speaker 4 (58:42):
It was the dumbest argument.
So when he went all the wayfrom a zero to thousand well,
we're just getting a divorcewent all the way from a zero to
thousand Well, we're justgetting a divorce and I thought
about sweeping the floor.
And then you just put that in adivorce decree, Right?
Not unrecognizable difference,because this argument about
sweeping the floor.

Speaker 3 (59:01):
Let me clarify, because what it stemmed from was
again not having the languageor the mindset.
I felt like I was beingattacked because what I had
learned growing up wasn't rightor inadequate.
So, now, not only are youattacking me, you're attacking
everybody that grew up with myhousehold.

(59:22):
You're talking about my mama.
We got an issue, so that's how,again, this root stems a branch
that when it's tapped, it goesdirectly back to that nerve and
if we don't address it, thatcould have caused me to walk
away from the best thing thatever happened to me.

Speaker 4 (59:40):
You damn right.

Speaker 3 (59:42):
I just want to write my name in the velvet.

Speaker 4 (59:46):
And because you said that communication is the key to
everything, because everythingyou said.
I ditto that Because there's alot of things that take place,
because I guess and the thingfor me is that I didn't know but
I was still going through it,because still in the back of my

(01:00:09):
head there was somethingdifferent about me, but I just
didn't know.
So that caused a lot.
And then again, the way I wasraised, because I try to put
everything that I saw my parentsdo into this relationship and
that ain't work at all, at allat all.

(01:00:30):
And then, on top of it, findingout that I was adopted when we
still didn't get it straightfrom the beginning.
You know just the way we,because we were raised
differently, that didn't work.
On top of finding out I wasadopted, it put a lot of
different wedges in our, in ourmarriage.
But I again, I thank Godbecause we weathered through the

(01:00:55):
storm.
We still here we still together,we're still together yeah, so
curiosity is my approach withcuriosity, and always try to
give the best, give people thebest intentions, assume best

(01:01:18):
intentions, yes, and communicate.
I mean, you know, but you can'tcommunicate your feelings when
you don't understand yourfeelings yourself.
Right, you know and that's partof it.
That was part of it because Ididn't understand my own
feelings of how I felt aboutthings Exactly.
I didn't know.
So, as the spouse, what I'msaying to those who might be

(01:01:38):
watching is, if you are in arelationship, a partnership, a
friendship, a marriage withsomeone who is in that, in
whatever stage they are, inassume best intentions.
Yeah, because they are goingthrough some of the most
traumatic truths and reflections, and almost I don't mean to

(01:02:03):
speak for you, but like, it'salmost like even if it heals,
you might think back onsomething and have a new
revelation and the hurt canstart all over again.
So you're in this constantcontinuum that you don't know
when that healing or that hurtwill be resolved.

(01:02:24):
And then when I find out ohwait a minute that what I
thought was resolved it's stillthere and John, will you know
express, you know, this is stillbothering me.
Or I realized, or I have thisreflection that I know it's 10
years later, but remember thisthing that happened at such and

(01:02:46):
such event.
Now I know.
So it's almost like a pendulumthat swings back and forth and
so when it hits this side and Ithink we're all good it can hit
the other side, and you knowthere's never, we're never at
the destination.

Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
It's like and we've said this when you say
destination, because that'ssomething you never really reach
.

Speaker 4 (01:03:08):
You never reach it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
Because once you get there, you go on to glory.

Speaker 4 (01:03:13):
It's done.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
It's still well, not necessarily done Because there's
.
You know, when you're travelingyou see the bumps and road.
You know we're on the way there.
We're on the way, we're tryingto get to where you want to be,
but when you get there, you'rejust not going to sit there,
You're still going to continue,You're going to explore.
You're never finished that.

(01:03:37):
So the thing is there's adestination to a certain degree,
but as long as we're on thisearth, there's never really a
permanent destination, like Isaid, until we've gone away from
here.
And you know, I would say thatif you're dealing with a spouse
who just found out the thingslike that y'all found out,

(01:03:58):
especially the way Lisa foundout about being adopted my first
thought is okay, what's herfamily going to be like when she
meet him?
This is how I'm thinking.
Okay, I'm thinking I'm about tobecome a protector because I
don't know.
You go into a situation notreally knowing what you're

(01:04:20):
walking into.
If you're not careful, you goout there with great
expectations and they're not met.
So go in with an open mindset,however that may look.
Don't go there expectingcertain things, because it may
not happen.

Speaker 4 (01:04:37):
It may not happen.

Speaker 1 (01:04:39):
And I mean we've had a great experience with our
family, Lisa's biological family, even our adoptive family.
We had great experiences.
But when things come out likeyou said, it never ends.
You think you're over it, butyou're never really over it.
It's how do you learn how tolive and adjust in it?

(01:05:02):
New, normal?

Speaker 3 (01:05:04):
New normal.

Speaker 1 (01:05:07):
New normal.
It may always be there, but wejust learn to deal with it.
New normal, new normal it mayalways be there, new normal, but
we just learn to deal with it.
Be patient.
It's not about you at thispoint, it's about your spouse.
It's about what they're dealingwith and sometimes that's hard
to deal with.
That's hard to deal withbecause you want to fix it,

(01:05:28):
because I've always been a fixer, and it's something that you
can't fix, that you can'tcontrol.
I had to get used to beinguncomfortable in a situation
where I was trying to makepolice, but I couldn't do that.

(01:05:49):
I would sacrifice certainthings so that she would be
comfortable.
Where I was trying to makepolice a couple, but I couldn't
do that.
I would sacrifice certainthings so that she would be
comfortable to a certain degree,but I was really leery about
things because I had a policemind.
I'm thinking all kinds of stuff, I get that.

Speaker 4 (01:06:06):
I'm Googling people.

Speaker 1 (01:06:07):
Let's look at Google and see who's also.

Speaker 4 (01:06:09):
Who will come after money?

Speaker 1 (01:06:12):
but it's just that we really have to just sit back
and just kind of go along withthe ride, because we can't
control it.
We can't control it, it'sreally here and we need to
support you and we're justriding to make sure that, hey,

(01:06:34):
there's no one getting hurt, andwe ride until the wheels fall
off and we ride.
And I mean there have been somecorners where it's halfway like
this Lisa you know, I'll put asalt cap on and I will ride.

Speaker 4 (01:06:46):
We know you'll pull up the Vaseline.

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
That's right.
We do know that it's been agood experience.
But you just be ready foranything at that point.
During the holiday seasons taketime for the family.
You do know that's right.
If there's some things that youfeel like could be done better,
then make that step and try tomake it better for the ones you

(01:07:09):
do know.
Then make that step and try tomake it better for the ones who
do know and then hopefully thatwill open up doors for other
family connections.

Speaker 3 (01:07:17):
So Awesome that.
All great points.
I wanna say just on behalf ofLisa and myself and I don't
think she would be upset with mesaying this we wanna say thank
you all.
When we did the first episode,we mentioned that having you all

(01:07:38):
at the table would bring aunique aspect to the
conversation, and it is evidentWe've been talking an hour and a
half.

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
We only presented two questions.

Speaker 3 (01:07:47):
We've been talking an hour and a half.
We only presented two questions, so I think it shows further
that this umbrella that we'recarrying for this so I'm adopted
it creates so many runoffs thatthe sky's the limit, but
ultimately it's a place forhealing.

(01:08:09):
The sky's the limit, butultimately it's a place for
healing, because I believe thatour healing is connected to you
all from a spiritual standpoint.
You know, God gives you whatyou need when you need it
through who you need.
I mean through variousindividuals.
He knew what our story was andhe knew who he needed to put
with us so that we would besuccessful in our journey and be

(01:08:34):
able to endure the journey.
So, as sometimes the pilot,sometimes as the co-pilot
because in a marriage sometimesthat role switches depending on
the scenario Just want to saythank y'all very much.
Yes, thank you, especiallyduring this season where we can
get caught up and I say we, notnecessarily us at the table, but

(01:08:55):
in general we can get so caughtup in the commercialized aspect
we forget to really just taketime.
And, like you said, the ones youdo know, are you maximizing
those relationships effectively?
Are you maximizing thoserelationships effectively?
You know, because you knowthere will be a day where you
won't have the opportunity youcan say I wish I could or should

(01:09:18):
have.
Well, you got plentyopportunities now.
You got 24 hours in a day whereyou can pick the phone up.
Now you can just send a text.
If you don't have the language,just text back and forth.
So again, thank y'all, thanky'all for taking the time to sit
down with us at our table.

Speaker 1 (01:09:39):
Yes, we appreciate you.

Speaker 4 (01:09:40):
It's been an hour and a half.

Speaker 1 (01:09:42):
That's my table.

Speaker 4 (01:09:43):
Oh, I'm just joking.

Speaker 3 (01:09:45):
I said our the tapestry of the table.

Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
Yes, I was really hesitant to say that Sit down.

Speaker 4 (01:09:58):
We've been putting it off for a long time, but I had
to lock y'all in today.
It was hard getting them here.
I just want y'all to know that.
We made it all the way fromFlorida.

Speaker 1 (01:10:09):
But we just hope that something was said today.

Speaker 4 (01:10:12):
Yes, some good nuggets were dropped.

Speaker 3 (01:10:16):
But even beyond, for the listeners, I think there was
some level of healing that tookplace, some affirmations that
took place, some comforts thattook place through just the
conversation.

Speaker 4 (01:10:29):
And revelations.
There's been new revelations, Ithink, even as we think about
our own children as we thinkabout our marriages, memories
that have popped up.
I know I could see the wheelsturning in John's head and he
was looking back like, oh wait,that was right.
I'm just grateful for theconversation and my hope is that

(01:10:51):
others who are watching willjust continue to have those
conversations, step by step,even if it starts small.
To your point, lisa, it's soimportant that communication,
approaching it with thatcuriosity, assuming best intent,
but just have conversation,conversation, open conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:11:10):
Conversations will tap you into different emotions,
like you're sitting here andthere's been a few times you
teared up.
You don't know why you'retearing up, but it's still.
It's like it's old, but it'sreally new.
It's always new, it's forevernew.

Speaker 3 (01:11:28):
That's why I don't sweep now.

Speaker 4 (01:11:31):
He doesn't y'all, he don't sweep.
Hey, whatever works in yourrelationship, I don't even sweep
the grass, I'd do a blower.

Speaker 3 (01:11:39):
Don't play them games .
It's dramatic.

Speaker 4 (01:11:41):
It's dramatic PTSD.

Speaker 3 (01:11:44):
So again we want to say thank y'all for taking the
time to invest and hopefullythis was beneficial.
Hit that like, hit that share.
Tell somebody about ourplatform.
If you want to be a guest, ifyou have a story, please send us
a message, send us an email.
We respond to those emails.
We've had people reach out andexpress their journeys.

(01:12:06):
Happy holidays.

Speaker 4 (01:12:09):
Happy holidays.
So make sure we are onInstagram, facebook, tiktok.
Spotify and all major platformsthat you can find your podcast.
And definitely on YouTube.

Speaker 3 (01:12:24):
Yes, and we do have beta VHS tapes if you need it.

Speaker 4 (01:12:29):
No, we don't.

Speaker 3 (01:12:29):
Some people don't even know what that is.
Check this out.
We were watching something andJordan the guy said Walkman.
Jordan was like what's aWalkman?
I was like, don't say that outloud.
We failed you Seriously.
We want to tell you all to havea happy holiday.

Speaker 4 (01:12:51):
Happy holidays.

Speaker 3 (01:12:52):
Enjoy your family.

Speaker 4 (01:12:53):
Yes, take time out for your loved ones.

Speaker 3 (01:12:56):
Yeah, invest your time.

Speaker 4 (01:12:57):
Invest your time, like my hubby over here said.

Speaker 3 (01:13:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:13:00):
So we love y'all and I think this will be our no, but
we'll see you in the new yearWith bigger and greater guests
bigger deafer.
I don't know how much more,greater you can get than us
right here.

Speaker 3 (01:13:20):
We gonna tell you the truth wait till you see the
bloopers from this.
Alright, so I'm John.
I'm Lisa and we are adoptedy'all want to outtake like like.
I'm Janice.

Speaker 4 (01:13:35):
I'm Janice, and we are the spouses of those who are
adopted how about these two?

Speaker 3 (01:13:45):
what's with the spirit finger?
And y'all have a great year, somany years.

Speaker 4 (01:13:53):
Spirit fingers and lines, All right this is great.
Until next time.

Speaker 3 (01:13:58):
Until the next episode.

Speaker 4 (01:13:59):
Take care.

Speaker 3 (01:13:59):
Bye-bye Take care.

Speaker 2 (01:14:11):
Thank you for listening to the so I'm Adopted
podcast.
We hope that this wasinformative and educational.
You can follow us on Instagramand Facebook at so I'm Adopted.
Also subscribe to our YouTubechannel so I'm Adopted.
And again, thank you forlistening and until next time.

Speaker 1 (01:14:39):
Make the choice to begin your healing journey.

Speaker 4 (01:14:45):
I got it.
No, I got it.

Speaker 3 (01:14:47):
We did get some stuff from Wayne.
We did get some really goodstuff.

Speaker 4 (01:14:49):
We love you, Wayne, Whenever you see this.
We got it.
We did get some stuff fromWayne.
We did get some really goodstuff.

Speaker 3 (01:14:51):
We love you Wayne.

Speaker 4 (01:14:52):
Whenever you see this , we love you.

Speaker 3 (01:14:54):
We actually got 61 items from Wayne 61?
.
Dj 61.

Speaker 4 (01:15:01):
She was like 61?
.
We just haven't been able touse it yet.
We have to figure it out, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:08):
It's the value, it's the value, it's the value.

Speaker 3 (01:15:13):
Qualifications.

Speaker 4 (01:15:17):
A lot of.

Speaker 3 (01:15:18):
Are y'all?

Speaker 4 (01:15:19):
ready, you ready.

Speaker 1 (01:15:20):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 (01:15:25):
I've seen some more, okay, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:15:48):
Jesus Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:15:48):
I'm impressed the button on that thing.
We didn't press what button?
I didn't press the button.
No more distractions.
We're doing this.
What in the world?
This is what I'm saying.
If you ask for tea, he's goingto get up and go get some more

(01:16:08):
tea.
He's going to be ready for aChristmas party tonight, though.
All right, you ready.
So, john, why are you lookingat me?
It ain't my fault.

Speaker 1 (01:16:19):
I didn't say anything , I just looked up, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:16:22):
So whenever you're ready, john, you can go ahead
and start.
All right, three, two.
One action.
All right, three, two oneaction.

Speaker 1 (01:16:33):
Why did you put your glasses on?
I was, oh, forget it, I'm sorryoh.

Speaker 4 (01:16:37):
All right Action.

Speaker 3 (01:16:39):
Okay, you ready, tiger.

Speaker 1 (01:16:48):
Ready Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3 (01:16:49):
Okay, you don't want me to pray?
No, you can.
If you need to, all right hey.

Speaker 4 (01:17:01):
So we just want to say happy holidays and welcome
to our.

Speaker 3 (01:17:02):
Oh, I thought you said stop.
No, no, I was like start overjohn, john you're distracted
like no she was it's all good?

Speaker 1 (01:17:08):
adding.

Speaker 3 (01:17:09):
Adding on.

Speaker 4 (01:17:09):
We have extra people here today, so don't mind us.
Let's start all over.

Speaker 3 (01:17:15):
Somehow or another that's going to get.
It needs to be seen, I think so.
You're sweating?
No, I'm not.
Why are we even talking?
I'm going to sweat.
Now that you brought attentionto it, I haven't sweated the
whole time.

Speaker 4 (01:17:26):
Now that we're sitting down with you, it's a
little more Okay and sweated thewhole time and now that we're
sitting down with you it's alittle more.
Okay, you're a little nervous.
I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry it was at 1800.

Speaker 1 (01:17:36):
I'm glad you got that out man, that one snuck up on
me.

Speaker 4 (01:17:40):
You didn't know it was coming.

Speaker 1 (01:17:41):
Sometimes you don't know these things.
I feel like a fart.

Speaker 4 (01:17:44):
Oh, we know about that.

Speaker 1 (01:17:46):
Okay, I'm sorry, we're oh we know about that,
Okay.
I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 (01:17:50):
Okay, we're going to start all over.

Speaker 3 (01:17:51):
We know about what Go ahead start Did I?

Speaker 2 (01:17:53):
fart.
No, oh, I was wondering.
You looked at me like we knowabout that.
I didn't fart, I didn't.