Resilience and Self-Discovery in Adoption Journeys

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Imagine uncovering hidden family truths and forming unbreakable bonds across unexpected paths. Join us, John and Lisa, in a heartfelt exploration of adoption, identity, and the relationships that shape our lives. This episode features the inspiring Kalila Scott Sumners, who offers a deeply personal glimpse into her adoption journey. From being embraced as a "chosen child" to the emotional complexities of meeting biological family members, Kalila's story is one of resilience, love, and self-discovery. Listen as we highlight the significance of maintaining a positive narrative about one's origins and the journey of reconnecting with biological roots.

Kalila's candid reflections reveal the joys and challenges of adoption, emphasizing the importance of understanding one's lineage, especially during major life events like marriage and pregnancy. As we share our own personal growth stories and aspirations for 2025, we also honor notable adoption figures such as Josephine Baker and President Gerald Ford. Their stories, along with Kalila's, demonstrate the profound connections and unique experiences fostered through adoption. This episode sheds light on the emotional journeys of adoptees, the yearning for familial connection, and the unexpected blessings that come with navigating these complex relationships.

Explore the intricate dynamics of adoption and family as we discuss the challenges of uncovering hidden truths and the emotional struggles tied to meeting biological parents. We delve into the universal longing for belonging and the balance between loyalty to adoptive families and acceptance from biological roots. Through personal anecdotes and powerful exchanges, we underscore the need for support, understanding, and celebrating the enduring resilience of adoptive families. Join us for an illuminating conversation on the unbreakable bonds formed through adoption and the lifelong impact on identity and relationships.

Music by Curtis Rodgers IG @itsjustcurtis
Produce and Edited by Lisa Sapp
Executive Producer Lisa Sapp
Executive Producer Johnnie Underwood

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:13):
Welcome to the so I'm Adopted podcast, where we talk
everything adoption.
This journey is not one we takealone.
Together, we grapple with rawemotions that surface from
adoption stories.
We want you to be comfortableenough to heal, so sit back and
go with us on this journey as wedive deep into adoption.

(00:52):
Welcome to another episode ofso I'm Adopted.
I'm John.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
And I'm Lisa.

Speaker 1 (00:59):
And we want to welcome you to our newest
episode on the podcast.
Thank you again for investingtime.
Hit that like button.
Hit that share button to ournewest episode on the podcast.
Thank you again for investingtime.
Hit that like button, hit thatshare button.
This is an opportunity for justindividuals to talk about
non-traditional relationships.
This started with a, and Ialways give Lisa the credit for
being the brainchild of this.
Yeah, she was consistent andthat's why we are here doing

(01:21):
what we do.
So again, thank you, you'rewelcome.
Happy new year.
Happy New Year.
This is the first time that weare sitting down in 2025.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
Yes, and we're looking for great things to take
place in 2025.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
I'm excited, absolutely.
Any New Year's resolutions oranything.
Do you do that?

Speaker 2 (01:39):
No, I don't really do that.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
Okay, all right, any New Year's changes or promises
or things that you're going todo?

Speaker 2 (01:44):
differently.
Continue doing this, and one ofthe things I did say was try
and be more intentional with therelationships with my
biological siblings.

(02:05):
Awesome, what about you.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
So one is my health.
I actually went to the doctortoday.
I have AFib, just FYI, and yeah.
But my doctor today was likeyou've lost 40 pounds, okay, my
blood pressure was 112 over 72.
And he said I don't need to seeyou for two years.
And this is my cardio.
Oh good, was ecologist,whatever, it's the heart doctor,

(02:28):
that's what we call itcardiology, yeah, cardiologist.
So he said everything's good,you don't have any signs or
symptoms okay um, you know.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
So continue doing what you do and I go back in two
years well, that's a greatpraise report right there,
absolutely, so that is me goodjob trying to make sure that my
health is good.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Okay, the other thing and it was just confirmed like
three situations a day.
I got to do something withregards to men's mental health.
That is my, that's what I'mlanding on.
I got to figure out how to doit, so I'm speaking it so that I
can be held accountable to it.
That's good so be looking forsomething with that with regards

(03:07):
to embedding the spiritualaspect, the mental health aspect
and then the behavioral aspect.
That's good, John, that'sreally good.
I think that is the cape thatI'm going to be wearing.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
But I'm excited about what you know.
We have some things that we arethinking about doing this year.
Oh, absolutely so, you know.
Stay tuned, as the yearcontinues to progress.
Even though it's January, it'salmost about February.
This month is almost over.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
February is a great year.
I mean a great month.
Is that your birthday month?
Birthday month, it's ourguest's birthday month too.
Oh, okay.
And Jayla's birthday month?
Oh, birthday month, it's ourguest birthday month too, but
okay, and jayla's birthday month?
Oh, it's my mom's birthdaymonth, yeah, good stuff, yeah,

(03:57):
so who's your famous person?
We always start our podcastwith a famous adoptive person,
just to bring some light to umindividuals in the culture.
Yes, so who's your famousperson?

Speaker 2 (04:02):
so this time I took someone who was an adoptive
parent.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
OK, all right.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
And Josephine Baker.
Oh, she adopted 12 children andshe called them her rainbow
tribe because she she adoptedthem from various different
places.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
But you know, josephine Baker, the famous
singer Dip the toe in the water.
Shut it down.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
Shut it down and she was a spy.
She was a spy at the time.
So I'm trying to figure outwould she have time to adopt 12
kids.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
I remember the Josephine Baker story on HBO.
I had to sneak and watch it.
I don't want to eat the fruit.
You know what?

Speaker 2 (04:44):
I'm saying that was a powerful song.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
That's a good one.
I did not know that about her,my person, and I'm going to read
it because it floored me.
Their name is Leslie Lynch KingJr, but you know who this
person is.
He was adopted when he was 16days old and his parents went

(05:10):
their separate ways.
A couple of years later, king'smother remarried and they
changed Leslie Lynch King Jr'sname to Gerald Rudolph Ford Jr.
Really yeah, that's right, Imean President Ford.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
President Ford, yes, really yeah that's right,
general, I mean President FordReally had no clue, wow.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
Had no clue.
It's always a nugget.
You never know who's in theculture.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
You don't know.
You don't know, or acontributor of the you know, or
a supporter of the culture.
That's right, josephine Baker,that floored me.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
Yes, and again, it's all about the non-traditional
relationships and this platformto bring light to it and give us
a safe space for people to talkabout it and ask questions,
because one thing that we don'tdo in our culture is we don't
ask questions and we sweepthings under the rug.
So that's why I'm just excitedabout this platform and I'm just
always going to say thank youfor pushing to make it a reality

(06:06):
.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
Well, thank you for accepting the challenge.
Absolutely yes.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yes.
So today we have a guest, agood friend of mine from Hampton
University.
Ok, kalila, I always call herKay Scott.
She's married.
I don't want to bedisrespectful.
She's always Kay Scott in myheart, but her name is Kalila
Scott Sumners, and it's sointeresting.

(06:32):
We met after I stopped playingfootball and we were in class
together and it just was anorganic relationship where it
was that sister brother vibe, anorganic relationship where it
was that sister brother vibe andI remember we had class
together.
Then I ended up seeing her atthe ebony showcase.
That's a whole differentconversation.
We just were we're vibing,because we had a lot of things

(06:54):
that were parallel and normallyas a male you don't find a young
lady that has that type ofmentality where her dad had made
sure that she was on top of hergame.
Okay, she was very much lockedin and you couldn't run willie
bobo on her.
So when we got to to talk andit was just like, oh, that's how

(07:19):
you think, that's how I think.
And then it became like she wasthe secondary mother because
she'd be like John, what youdoing, you need to be doing X, y
and Z.

Speaker 2 (07:29):
She kept you straight Straight and narrow.

Speaker 1 (07:31):
She kept me straight and narrow and she just always
had that ability.
Even after we graduated she gotmarried and I got married.
We still were bonding and Iremember when she told me that
you know she had found her firstfamily.
Okay, in that journey we bothidentified early on and I'm sure
maybe she can remember whenthat conversation first came up

(07:53):
about adoption.
But that was like the icing onthe cake, just us being just
parallel spirits, her family Ilove him dearly, my family got
there dearly and it was just aperfect, perfect mix.
I'm excited for her to come onand share her story.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
I'm excited to hear it.
Her story is amazing.

Speaker 3 (08:14):
Let's get her on in here.

Speaker 1 (08:16):
Thank you, first and foremost, for coming on.
Thank you for having me.
I was saving the bag.
I was like I know I got one.
The big joke I'm going to play.
I'm going to wait and save it.

Speaker 3 (08:29):
Come on first of the year.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
Yes, that's right.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
So I'm trying to remember.
Do you remember how theconversation came up about us
both sharing that we wereadopted?

Speaker 3 (08:40):
I think, just like you said when you all were doing
your intro, we always had ajust like a brother sister
relationship.
There was never anything crazy.
It was always John's my brother, I'm his sister and we're going
to look out for each other.
And I was there from Ohio inVirginia, and his family was

(09:00):
close in Richmond, and so therewas a weekend or two where he
would say come home with me, youcan sleep in my room, I'll
sleep wherever you slept, Idon't even know I was in your
room, I'll sleep in the otherroom.
I don't know.
Yeah, and it was like you canwash your clothes.
My mom's going to cook a Sundaydinner.
I think I might have gone tochurch once or twice and we just

(09:28):
maybe had a conversation onyour parents' back deck about
just where we, how we got toHampton, what it looks like, and
I and I know like I'm an openbook, and I probably said, yeah,
you know I'm adopted and I Ifeel like I remember you being
like I am too, but it was like awhisper not a whisper and I

(09:48):
didn't understand that, becausewithin my family it was an open,
uh conversation.
Just no, my parents always saidyou're a chosen child.
We didn't just accidentallyfall into the you.
You know, we had to work and wehad, we had to go to these
classes and do these things.
So adoption for me was alwayssomething that I wore very

(10:08):
proudly.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
But I remember that you being like just don't say it
too loud- you know what I'mreflecting back, and I think
there was a period in collegewhere I didn't know how to
address it.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
Yeah, whereas I grew up with it as an open
conversation.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
Now I grew up with it being open, so everybody knew.
But I didn't have to be honest.
You may have been the firstperson that I met that was
adopted.

Speaker 3 (10:40):
Or that was openly adopted.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
No just that I could have a conversation with, that
was wrestling, or that wasadopted.

Speaker 3 (10:49):
Like trying wrestling , because at that point there
was no, it was just.
You know how it feels to beadopted.
You're a person and you live ina family that loves you and
cares for you and nurtures youand gives you every opportunity,
cares for you and nurtures youand gives you every opportunity,
but there's no one that quitelooks like you.
There's no one that quite hasthe same toes or fingernails or

(11:11):
just those small things that youjust look for, um, and so I
think that that deepened ourbond in a way that was like oh
okay, so we can really talkabout feeling lost in the space
where we should feel safe.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
Right, because y'all can relate to each other.
Yeah, so how old were you whenyou, I guess when they first
told you how old were you, andhow old were you when they
adopted you?

Speaker 3 (11:38):
I was in foster care from birth to nine months.
My bio mom left me at thehospital.
From birth to nine months, mybio mom left me at the hospital.
So I was in foster care inKentucky for about nine months
and at that time in theseventies, they were trying to
place black families or blackchildren with black families.
There was a white family thatwanted to adopt me.

(11:58):
My parents came in and said,nope, that's our girl.
And so that white family did nothave the opportunity to adopt
me, although they had fosteredme from probably A week until I
was nine months.
But my mother, who was a socialworker and had gone through the
process and learned very earlyyou need to tell her her story

(12:23):
before she finds out.
You need to tell her her storybefore she finds out.
So I always knew there werebedtime stories of you were
chosen.
Yes, you know, I'm not yourbelly mom, but me and your dad
saw you and we wanted you and mydad wanted a boy.
His name was going to be Khalil, hence they just added an A-H.
They didn't even get Khalil.
I was like really, wow, okay,so it was.

(12:46):
It was always a story that wasvery open within my family, or
like my nuclear family Now, mymom's, my, my mom's, my mom's
mom, my grandmother, my auntsand them.
No one really spoke aboutKalila being adopted.
She was just ours.
No one really spoke aboutKalilah being adopted.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
She was just ours.

Speaker 3 (13:06):
So nobody in the family ever spoke about it, but
my mom, my dad and I.
It was not a secret, gotcha.

Speaker 1 (13:13):
So I heard you say your belly mom.
Is that what you said?
Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
I've never heard that phrase before, but I love it
Because she spoke to you in theage that you were Right as a
little girl.

Speaker 3 (13:28):
It was.
I'm not your belly mom, butyour belly mom really did a.
You know.
She always in my mind and Johnknows this, and I've told this
story before.
I always thought my biologicalmom was obviously Whitney
Houston, because I'm gorgeous inmy brain, right?

Speaker 2 (13:43):
It's.

Speaker 3 (13:43):
Whitney, I would have introduced y'all to her.
But I say that to say myparents did such a good job of
allowing me to understand thatmy biological mom made the
greatest sacrifice that shecould ever make to make sure
that they were parents.

(14:04):
She was never vilified.
It was never.
You know, she was this poorgirl who didn't want you and
couldn't take care of you.
It was always.
She's the greatest person inthe world.
Who else would do this?
Who else would make thesacrifice?
And so I was a Whitney fan, soI just thought it was her.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
Okay, can you sing like Whitney?
I would I would be somewhere.
I'm a huge.
I'm from Jersey, whitney's frommy husband's from Jersey.

Speaker 3 (14:31):
I'm a huge I'm a huge Whitney fan.
If I could sing, I would besomewhere living life other than
being Hamptonians, we gotsomething else in common.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
Oh yeah, I'm a fan.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
Yes, me too.
I used to tell people just callme Nippy.
But that's that thing that youdo as an adopted child you want
to hang your hat somewhere.
And so you figure out in yourmind oh, you make up stories
because there was no story.
Although I found out that therewas a story, there was a whole,

(15:03):
that whole non-identifyingmedical information that you
have access to it was there.
I think that my parents justfelt like we want to build this
life with her and make sure thatshe's safe before she accesses
that information, and so Ididn't get to that.

Speaker 1 (15:22):
Did they notice the story before you found out?
Oh, yeah.
Okay.

Speaker 3 (15:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
So that's where the protection part came in, I guess
.

Speaker 3 (15:32):
Yeah, and as much as a teenager in my mind, I would
think you know when you get introuble or something happens,
you're not even my mama, You'renot even my dad.
I never said that out loud butin my mind, like my mama would
have let me go to the skatingrink because she's cool, you

(15:55):
know cause you make that otherperson just this, you know
person that would do and beamazing.
But I'm, as I look back, I'mglad that I didn't have access
to that information, because Iwasn't emotionally intelligent
or self-aware at the time todeal with the repercussions of
what may come with knowing thatinformation.

Speaker 1 (16:11):
Right, right.
So let's let's jump into.
You are young girl, you alreadyknow.
Were there any times because itwas so normalized, because it
was so positively spoken about?
Were there any times thatoutside peers, friends or family

(16:32):
members created an opportunitywhere it was a dig or something
negative with it?

Speaker 3 (16:39):
Never, never.
It was such a I think my motherhad such a fertility journey,
um, because they didn't get meuntil they were 35 and 36 so at
that time that was a littleolder to be having children and
my mother had been through um,ivf and and you know rhythm

(17:03):
method and all the things to tryto have a baby.
So I think by the time I cameinto the family it was thank God
, you know, we have this baby.
I look very much like myparents.
John knows my mom.
I look very much like her, mymom.
I look very much like her.
People used to tease her thatshe told my daddy that I wasn't,

(17:29):
that she went somewhere and gotpregnant.
I was very much like my mother,which is the craziest thing.
I do remember that my motherwould say that my father's
mother would tell her youcouldn't even have a kid oh wow.
So that was her wound.
She never my grandmother on mydad's side never treated me any

(17:53):
differently.
But as I got older my motherwould say my, your, my
mother-in-law would always sayand you couldn't even make a
baby.
Say and you couldn't even makea baby.
Oh, that's so hurtful.
So for her that was a woundthat I didn't experience.
Thankfully, I never experiencedthat.

(18:13):
You're not ours, you're not ourblood, never that.
And if it did happen, myparents a hundred percent
shielded me from that.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
Right, Right.
So at what age did you start tobe curious as to who you know,
your biological family?

Speaker 3 (18:32):
was.
I think we're always curious,but I think it did.
It wasn't relevant to my lifeuntil I got married and we
started thinking about havingchildren and I had a miscarriage
.
And then I had my 21 year oldand so when I was pregnant with

(18:56):
her, it was kind of touch and goand I was like, wow, I wonder
if anybody in my biologicalfamilies experienced this thing,
cause there was no, was no.
You know, I didn't have anymedical issues, none of that.
So I had no medical uh history.
So you know, you go in and youput NA on everything because you
don't even know that's right um, and got through that pregnancy

(19:17):
, everything was fine.
Then I had four miscarriagesbetween my 21 year old and my 15
year old, and when I gotpregnant with him I was like,
okay, I'm tired of this NA stuff.
I need to figure out what'sgoing on because, quite honestly
, I want a little boy.
I was like I need a boy.

(19:38):
You know, we got one of each.
We got a boy, we got a girl.
God don't make no other flavors.
So let's figure out what'sgoing on.
And so when I was pregnant withmy now 15-year-old is when I
got really busy and I hired aprivate investigator.
Do you remember that show, troythe Locator.
All adoptees love that show.

(19:59):
Every adoptee I ever talked towas like, oh my God, yes, I cry.
One of the investigators on Troythe locator is a private
investigator in her own right,and so I hired her.
Ok, I hired her when I waspregnant with my son.
I was about six months pregnantwith him and I hired a private

(20:23):
investigator because I couldn't,I didn't have access to.
You know, all adoptions priorto 1980 were closed, right.
And so I didn't have anyinformation and it wasn't open.
It wasn't.
Like you know, I didn't, Idon't know, maybe I went the
easy route.
I didn't search and do all thethings that I could have done,

(20:44):
so I hired a privateinvestigator is what I did.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
So with now you're at a place where you are having
your.
Well, let me back up with youbeing in the adoption world.
How do you think it impactedyou as a wife?
Did it have any impacts?

Speaker 3 (21:09):
I think my husband was always aware that there was
this unspoken potential medicalproblem.
You know, when you losechildren, you lose children, you
lose children.
And I'm like I don't even.
You know, I'm just a normal 26,27, 28, 29, 33.

(21:30):
When I finally had Mason, um,you're old, and so what's going
on?
Um?
At the same time, in his ownlife, he had some um challenges
with his birth father.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (21:44):
And I think, and and not that he wasn't adopted out
or anything like that, but Ithink me taking the initiative
and going the steps and figuringout what is my biological
lineage really encouraged him toto reach back and and create a
relationship with his father,which he did.

(22:05):
That's awesome, which was huge,yeah.
So there's a, there's a kind ofcrazy candy story that I'll
tell if, if I can the the ladythat I hired as a private
investigator Her name was Lindaand she got all my information

(22:25):
Say this was January-ish of 2009.
So she called me on um inFebruary, like February 22nd
2009, because my birthday is the26th.
So I remember, because you know, you just remember.

(22:46):
And so she said you know you'readopted through this which I
knew, um this Lutheran socialservices.
This is your birth mom's namedah, dah, dah, dah dah.
So I call Lutheran SocialServices on the phone and I said
hey, my name is Kalila Sumnersor Scott Sumners.
I was adopted in March of 78.
And you know, I'm looking formy non-identifying medical

(23:10):
information because I didn'thave it at the time.
The lady on the phone says areyour parents Henry and Pat?

Speaker 1 (23:18):
Mm, come on, just like that Come on.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
I said just off of your name.

Speaker 3 (23:25):
I'm at the office and I was like girl, are you the
secretary?
Why are you asking?
How would you know?
And she said today is my lastday.
Oh, I am packing up my office.
Our, our secretary is not here,but I remember you, oh.

(23:47):
And I said how do you rememberme?
She said you were the firstAfrican American child I adopted
out, after as a social worker,after I got my master's Come on
oh yeah, that would besignificant oh.

Speaker 1 (23:59):
I got chills.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
Oh, wow.

Speaker 3 (24:01):
He said I remember you, your mom and dad.
Your dad was a teacher.
He was going on to study to bean administrator.
I always knew my dad to be aprincipal, Right, I'm like, yeah
, knew my whole family story butcouldn't share anything with me
because it was closed.
Her name was Linda, so Lindathe locator, and then the social

(24:25):
worker or the private detectivefound my biological mother.
Her name was Linda.
I said what the hell?

(24:50):
So it was just one of those Godthings.
It really was like the rightmoment when I picked up the
phone and said I should call.
It was just like that.
And so when I got thatinformation from the social
worker or the private detectivewho had found my biological
mother, she said you know, thisis her information, this is who

(25:11):
she is, this is her phone number.
I'm like, oh my gosh, I can'tcall her.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
This is who she is.
This is her phone number.
I'm like, oh my gosh, I can'tcall her.

Speaker 3 (25:22):
I mean, what do I say ?
So they didn't like call herfirst, because we know what a
private investigator, because itwas the investigator found her.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
Yeah, so it's like here's the information, you do
it.
What you want versus a socialworker who has to follow certain
things.

Speaker 3 (25:33):
She said I wish I could help you, I just can't
Follow certain things.
She said I wish I could helpyou, I just can't.
And so I had my biological,biological mother's phone number
, for that was like the 22nd.
I had it for about seven daysand just kept it by my bedside

(25:55):
and really prayed about it.
Went out for my birthday, cameback home the 27th or 28th and I
called.
She answered and I said may Ispeak to Linda?
And she said yeah, yeah, yeah,this is her.
You know who's this?
And I said my name's Kalila.
I think that I'm your daughter,but maybe not, because you

(26:18):
never know what space somebody'sin.
And that was a bold call tomake.
Anyway.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
But I can see you doing that.

Speaker 3 (26:24):
Yeah, because you know me.
And she's like no, I didn'thave a daughter.
And I said, ok, well, if youdid, because if I did I would
want to know that that child issafe, because if I did, I would
want to know that that child issafe.
I said I am safe.
I have a six year old daughter.
I have a little boy on the wayhe's doing June.

(26:46):
And if this is not a good timefor you, that's fine.
But if I were in your shoes Idon't know if these are the
shoes that you're in, but I wantto know that my daughter is
safe.
I had a great life.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
And she said your birthday was the 26th.
You just gave her too much forher not to say that she had a
daughter.
Wow, and.

Speaker 3 (27:09):
I said okay.
I said if this is not a goodtime in your life, if you are
not in the headspace, if this isnot what you want to do, I'm
okay.
I just want you to know I'mokay and you're okay and I'm
okay and that's fine.
She said well, give me yourphone number.
And so I gave her my phonenumber and she said you know, I
have four boys.

(27:30):
I never told my husband and Idon't really know what to do
with this, but I knew this daywould come.
And I don't really know what todo with this, but I knew.
I knew this day would come andI don't know what role I should
play with you.
Wow, and I said well, let's getto know each other, and that's

(27:51):
how that went, so let's fastforward.
Where's your relationship withher today?
So a little step back.
We talked for like two yearsjust via phone.
She was a state over inKentucky, I was in Ohio and we
just talked via phone.
I got to know her, she got toknow me and she was like wow,

(28:14):
your parents sent you to Hampton.
Wow, you took ballet.
Wow, you modeled.
Wow, I could have never donethose things.
And, you know, talked to me alot about my bio dad and you
know, this is who he is and thisis what he was and this is why
I did what I did.
And, um, I come from, or wasborn in a very small town with

(28:35):
like seven black families whokind of all intermarried and
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,and told me who he was.
And I had become Facebookfriends with one of her nieces,
who is my bio cousin, and she'slike, oh my God, you look just
like Joe.

(28:56):
And I was like, yeah, lindatold me that Joe is my dad and
she was like, oh, okay, sothere's three siblings on his
side.
So I sent a friend request tomy brother, who had like 4,000
friends, and I thought he'llnever see me, he'll just accept
it and I'll just kind of watchand see if I can see, like who's

(29:17):
the auntie, who's the cousin.
Oh, that's my grandma.
You know, I thought I'd do thatthat on a Tuesday.
Say I sent that Tuesday at 530,tuesday at 730.
He sends me a private message.
Why do you look like me?
Oh.
Excuse me, excuse me, sir, and Iwas like well, I think I might

(29:41):
be your sister, but maybe I'mnot.
And he said call me.
Sent me his phone number,called him on a Wednesday.
He said I'm going to tell ourgranny paternal.
He tells her, she gets on thephone and she said you coming to
Kentucky because you cominghome, oh wow.

(30:03):
and I'm like now.
Mind you, I have a very solidrelationship with my family, my
parents, but my mom had alwayssaid I will help you when you're
ready to find your biologicalfamily.
So that was a Wednesday,saturday we were, my husband and
I, were on our way to Kentucky.
My mom and dad took my childrenbecause we don't know where

(30:27):
we're going to.
I don't know them.
We pull up to my grandmotherpaternal grandmother's house
because at this point Linda hadseen the chatter on Facebook.
Ok, call me and tell I don'tappreciate it.

Speaker 1 (30:41):
I don't appreciate it .

Speaker 3 (30:43):
And I was like, wow, I probably messed up Because I
didn't want to out her.
But also these people were like, come Right, went to the house
in Kentucky, pulled up, and Iwas like, oh, this is great,
this is a baby shower.
I'm thinking, oh, my cousinsare going to be here, baby girl.

(31:05):
And I'm like, oh, this is mycousins, I come in.
It's a baby shower for me.
I was 34 years old and it was awelcome home baby shower.
Flowers, you know, just here'syour cousin.
This is, I mean, and everybodylooked like me.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
I know that.

Speaker 3 (31:28):
Yeah, it was a.
It was a wonderful feeling and,like I said, it's a small town.
So Linda knew I was there andshe hadn't spoken with me and I
was giving her her space.
And on the way out she calledme and she said I'll meet you at
Applebee's.
I said OK.
So we met on the way out oftown and she told my husband

(31:50):
because I needed to run to therestroom that's not her, that's
not her people.
I was raped by five men.
Restroom that's not her, that'snot her people.
I was raped by five men.
I just told her that so shecould have a story kind of like
thing, so I said that to say,wait what she backed it up?
because now it's like I knowthis child is here and she looks

(32:15):
like those people and I wasn'tsupposed to be messing with that
man.
So yeah, so I said that to sayshe and I do not have a
relationship.
And you know I pray thatsomeday that is different,

(32:35):
before she and I both leave here, because I came from you.
You know I'm not mad at you.
I'm sorry that you're upsetwith me, but they asked me to
come to Kentucky.
You didn't.
Now I got a question.

Speaker 2 (32:52):
To this day, as far as you know, she still hasn't
told her husband or her fourboys or her husband or her four
boys.

Speaker 3 (32:59):
Her husband passed a year and a half into our phone
conversations so I don't knowthat she ever told him.
But her sons know, because it'sone of those towns where
everybody's kind of cousins,second, third cousins, so the
boys know, and I'm actually.

(33:22):
I speak to her sisters.
Okay, my aunts are very engagedwith me and they say I don't
know what's wrong with her, likethat's over and done with.
You're almost 50 years old andshe's still holding on to shame.
And I tell them you never knowwhat shame and trauma I caused
for her.
She hid me her whole senioryear, ran track within the band,

(33:45):
went three counties over tohave me and leave to go back
home like nothing happened.
That's trauma, yeah.
So I probably represent a timein her life where she would like
to not think about.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
Yeah, she has to sit in that and really, really
wrestle with that healing forherself if she wants to heal
from it and move forward.
But until she does, there'snothing you can do.
Do you have a relationship withyour brothers From her?
Yes, One.

(34:22):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (34:24):
One.
The other three boys, no Okay.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
Their loyalty lies with her so they don't.

Speaker 3 (34:31):
Right and I can understand that.
I am just here because of herand so I'm just grateful.
I'm not mad, but I recognizethat even at her age I think

(34:51):
she's 17 or 18 years older thanme it just may be something that
she has a process and maybenever will.
I'm always open and I'm notyour adversary, I'm your
daughter.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
And she knows where to find you.

Speaker 3 (35:08):
That's right, I'm always available.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
So, so, let me tell you this I'm listening and I've
heard the story, I know it andI'm listening to the things that
you said and that, again, thisto me reinforces why we're just
such kindred spirits of how youwere.
Very hey, this is what it is.
If you're not ready, it's okay.
And the fact that, at the endof the day, I was safe and I was

(35:34):
good.
And that takes the end of theday, I was safe and I was good.
And that takes a lot ofmaturity because and we've
discussed how you know you haveevery right to express and throw
out your feelings and justpeople wrestle with whatever,
but to be able to say to theindividual I'm good, I'm here

(35:58):
whenever you're ready, and atthe end of the day, like you
said, that's mom, at the end ofthe day, she gave birth.
You know that.
Even we've talked about it,it's still that respect level of
at the end of the day,regardless of anything else, I'm
going to say thank you, becauseyou could have made some other
choices Exactly.

Speaker 3 (36:17):
Exactly, and I, you know, I I imagine what it would
be like to be a 17 year old girland feel like you have nobody
to talk to and nobody to tell.
How do you hide a pregnancy ina house full of people?
That tells me something aboutthe parenting that she received,
and so I can't imagine that mymom knew if I had a pimple on my

(36:44):
face.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
She's like what's wrong with you.

Speaker 3 (36:47):
My parents stayed in my face carrying a child to term
in a home with parents andbrothers, and sisters and no one
acknowledging that something isgoing on with you.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
So I know with John.
He's spoken to his aunts andhis aunts filled him in on some
of the backstory.
Did your aunts tell you, orwhen did they know?
Or was this all new to themonce you reached out to them?

Speaker 3 (37:24):
No, they said we knew something was going on with her
and she disappeared for acouple of days in 1977.
When she came back, we justdidn't ask.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
Again sweeping stuff under the rug.

Speaker 3 (37:37):
They just did not ask .
She picked it right up, wentback to school because I think
she graduated.
I was born that February.
I think she graduated that June.
But the relationship mypaternal grandfather was the
pastor, my paternal grandfatherwas the pastor, her grandmother,

(37:58):
her mother, was the churchsecretary.
My paternal grandmother,obviously, was the first lady.
So this is a family who wasvery close.
So they were like God brotherand God sister.
You know the pastor and hissecretary and the wife.
They know each other.
They go camping together.

(38:19):
They do Christmases together,thanksgivings together.
This was like you know how yourkids have friends that you just
don't even think about.
Oh yeah they're up there in theroom this day playing a game,
or they out riding their bikes.
Well, they were doing a littlesomething different.
That's right, and so it.

(38:40):
I think Darren came to shametoo, Like he was like a play
cousin yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (38:48):
And so the families were so intertwined.
So my biological mother'smother, my grandmother, my
maternal grandmother, has saidwe won't have nothing to do with
you, oh, wow.
And I said, wow, ok, it feelsvery much like, maybe, how you

(39:11):
parented your daughter, butthat's not my business.
It's very sweet, but under therug and we're okay, and as long
as we're okay, then it's okay.
But my, um, my paternalgrandmother, she and I were very
close.
I mean I went to Kentucky allthe time and just sat on her
couch and chill.
So my kids have relationshipswith their cousins and, um, my

(39:35):
sisters and brother come spendtime with us.
So you know and I understandthat boys loyalty very much lies
with their mothers.

Speaker 1 (39:48):
So let me ask this question, or let me say this so,
with both of you being mothersand you think about when you had
your children, how it wascelebrated, right, and you
brought up the fact of thetrauma that you know first mom
may have had trying to hide itand conceal it, so I can't even
imagine her being able to unpackall those emotions of a trying

(40:11):
to hide it, but then, at 17years old, yeah.
And then whatever shame mayhave running track.

Speaker 3 (40:17):
You were still running track.
I can't imagine.
Wow.
And she told me once um, you'reso much better than me.
What could I offer you?

Speaker 2 (40:30):
your time.
That's just who you are.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
It's right, your time , that's it and it's, it's, it's
challenging because, like sheholds the key to just so much,
just being there.
All you got to do is just melooking at, sitting across,
looking at you, that's it.
Um, I remember me and mybiological mom.
We met, had lunch and I justcouldn't stop staring.

(40:55):
I remember that.
I remember when I was like,yeah, we had that conversation.

Speaker 3 (41:00):
And I think that for them, you know, and again them,
wrestling through whatever theydon't understand, for us All we
need, like you said that time,even at FaceTime, you know, no
matter what, no matter if I canget people to understand because
people think, well, you'regrown Like you should be past
that you know that's in the past, Move on.

(41:22):
Because we get to this placewhere we think people should
move on, there is still a spacewhere you just want to spend
some time and just be quiet.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
You ain't got to say words yeah, you want to be that
child again.

Speaker 3 (41:39):
Making up for lost time.
Yep, I will never forget and Itry to remember it with my
21-year-old, who gets on mynerves sometimes that Dr Phil
always says your children wantto see your eyes light up when
they come in the room.
That's kind of all we want.

Speaker 1 (42:00):
Validation.

Speaker 3 (42:01):
Yeah, everybody wants to feel like they belong to
somebody.
Even though we had amazing orsome of us may have not.
I had an amazing life andamazing story that I'm probably
would not have happened if I wasstill living in rural Kentucky.
I would be riding horses andyou know.
Whatever that didn't happen forme and I'm grateful.

(42:21):
But there is still a spacewhere you want to be accepted
and like, and until she getspast that Trauma that she
experienced, I think I'm goingto always be a wound for her.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
So let me ask this question, With you having the
information and we can go backto the conversation.
At the Applebee's right, youand Sean leave.
You get back to Ohio.
What's the conversation withthe folks?

Speaker 3 (42:53):
my, my mother, as much as she was, you know my
whole life the one who would sayI hope y'all help, y'all help
you.
For her it was very threatening.
How was it with her, you know?
I think she felt that therewould be some like soul tie, and

(43:15):
so for my mother when she foundout that I think she felt that
there would be some, some likesoul tie.
And so for my mother, when shefound out that the relationship
was strained, it was.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
OK, she was like yes, right School, like I'm safe.

Speaker 3 (43:33):
The kick is good.
Yes, I'm still number one, yeah, and my biological father has
always expressed a generaladmiration for my parents
because he never knew I was born.
So when I went back for thebaby shower at 33, he was
spending time away with theincarcerated friends.
And so around the corner frommy grandmother's house it's a

(43:59):
town, it's Mayberry and so mygrandmother says you want to go
see your daddy?
Yeah, sure, like why isn't hehere?
So we go around the corner tothe you was about to say
Mayberry too, and I walk in andthey call him out and he's like,
oh my God, you have my face,wow.

Speaker 2 (44:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (44:23):
I mean, this is behind glass.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
Right.

Speaker 3 (44:26):
And he's like I, like I can't believe you're real.
And I said you never knew, hesaid no, she never told me.
Wow, he did not know.
And I said you never knew, hesaid no, she never told me Wow,
oh, wow, he did not know.
So my father has been very opento meeting my biological father

(44:48):
, because my biological fathercame from the place of.
I didn't even know and y'alldid a great job with this one.
Now, it has never happened.
I don't know how Henry wouldact.
Henry is my dad, so I reallydon't know how he would act.
And my bio dad is never reallyfree to move about the cabin.

(45:12):
Yes, he's always got someprobation issues, so he's never
been able to travel.
So I don't know.
My parents were very supportive.

Speaker 1 (45:29):
That's great.
Let me ask this question how doyou think, if any you being
adopted impacted you as a parent?

Speaker 2 (45:40):
Hmm.

Speaker 3 (45:45):
I will say as a parent, it made me it's very
Open with alternative familystyles because, my children
always knew that I was adopted.

(46:06):
You know Mason was born into it,right, so I had already met the
bio family by the time he came.
You know I was six months in atthat point and Aniyah knew and
you know then Sean had a kind ofstrained relationship with his
father, so she had never reallymet him.
So my kids would always say wegot a lot of grandparents, mom,
you got, two dads, you got twomoms, dad you got.

(46:29):
And so I think it really mademe open and my children
respectful of alternativefamilies, because every family
doesn't always look like evenwhat it looks like, because if
you saw me and my mom and my dad, you wouldn't think that I was
adopted.

(46:49):
That's right.
And so then I'm like and here'sthis one and here's that one,
and here's some brothers andhere's some sisters, and here's
this one and here's that one,and here's some brothers, here's
some sisters, and so my kidsare just, I think, open to the
fact that families can lookdifferent.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
Right, that's awesome , that is that.
Yeah, that's good, that's good.
It's weird that between thethree of us, you know, even
though we're all adopted andlike we've mentioned many, many
times before, everyone's storyis so different.

Speaker 3 (47:21):
So different.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
It's so different because how your parents were
supportive, I can't.
Well, I guess it would be theyweren't supportive because they
never told me oh yeah, yeah, ohyes, I saw your story.
Yeah, so I didn't even.
Yes, I saw your story, yeah, so.

Speaker 3 (47:38):
Like you didn't, even know.
I didn't know you found outfrom a family member right Her
husband.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
Yeah, my husband.

Speaker 3 (47:45):
I was going to say that, but then I was like no,
that don't even sound right.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
Okay, yeah, that's right, and then John always knew
.

Speaker 1 (47:52):
But it wasn't spoken of.
No, she knew but it wasn'tspoken of.
She shut it down.
She shut it down, so she wasn'tsupportive she was like the
file is closed and you can'topen it.
I'm like, oh, okay, I'm goingto go back to my room.
Yeah, and I remember when youwere telling me about John, I
found him.
I'm about to go do this.
I was so happy for you.

(48:15):
But there was a littlegreen-eyed monster of jealousy.
Yeah, you always have thatdesire.
It was almost like you made itinto the promised land and I
don't get to go, but you wasalways going to go.
But here's the thing when youdon't know and you're hoping,
you celebrate others and you'relike I'll be glad when my time

(48:36):
comes.
And then you were like just,you celebrate others and you're
like I'll be glad when my timecomes.
And then you were like well,john, be careful, because you
don't know what Pandora's box isgoing to open.
And you got to be sober and Iremember you telling me when I
pulled up What'd I say, lord?
You were like when I pulled upthey had all these balloons and
all these different things andI'm like what shit?

Speaker 3 (48:54):
Who the hell like blown away I couldn't imagine
thinking of having a baby showerfor me but that is what that
little kid wants.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
Yeah, that little kid it was so gorgeous, but it was
blown away to you because you'relike they don't even know me
right, and they took time tothrow this baby shower for a 30
something year old.

Speaker 3 (49:22):
Yeah, what in the yeah, and in my family there's a
little history of small ankles.
So my grandma pulled me in thebathroom and she was like come
here, baby, Small ankles.
Wait a minute, it's a problem.
It's a problem.
So, I go in the bathroom andshe's like put your pants up Now
.
This woman does look like me,but I like I don't really know

(49:44):
what's going on exactly pulls mypants up, she comes out the
bathroom, she ours you got themangles.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
Hey, that's a dna test, right there chicken legs
chicken legs.

Speaker 3 (49:57):
That's funny oh that's fun and and you would
think like I would hate them.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
No, I love them that's amazing does it make you
feel like, after all this time,like you've always known them,
it's just that you just beenaway.
Because that's how I felt whenI first found my family.
It was just like you know, ohyeah, lisa lives in Virginia and

(50:24):
she's just coming up for youknow mom's.
Yeah, lisa lives in Virginiaand she's just coming up for you
know mom's birthday.
Yeah, that's how it felt, likewe've always known each other.

Speaker 3 (50:30):
It feels like that.
I think that there's aconnection that only DNA can
create.
Um, I, yes, I do.
Um, I hate that and I, this is.
I say this like with two sidesof my brain.

(50:50):
I hate that.
I miss the stories that mycousins have.
Oh, my, yes, because they havethe summers, they have the girl.
You ain't no, aunt dimples wascrazy.
I'm like no, okay, no Okay, youdidn't know.
Such and such was married tosuch and such.
I wasn't here, so I missed thehistory.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (51:09):
I missed that.
But then I'm like if I didn't,if I had that history, then I
wouldn't have had the historywith my family.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
And that's how I look at it also, because when you're
sitting in it and they'resitting there and your cousins,
and everybody's talking aboutwhat they did as a child, and
you're like, oh wow, I wouldhave been doing that.
Oh wow, I would have been doingthat, I should have been in
that picture, I would have beenin that picture.
All those things, those thingsare the things that make me feel

(51:37):
sad.
But, on the other hand, Iwouldn't have changed my life,
because the life that they live,lisa, wasn't built for that.

Speaker 3 (51:48):
That's all I was not, I was not built for rural
Kentucky, I promise you no.
And I look just like mygrandmother, like there were
pictures of her when she waslike thirty three, thirty four,
like my age, and it could havebeen me.
And she passed 34, like my age,and it could have been me and

(52:12):
she passed gosh, maybe 2017.
And so my biological fathercalls me a lot and he's like Bob
, bob Jean, that's what he callsme and that's her name.
Now you know I ain't Bob Jean.
But yeah, I wasn't built forrural Kentucky either.
I'm not a horse girl, I'm not abluegrass state kind of girl
and I don't want to listen tothat country music.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
Oh my goodness, so wow.
So you was born in Kentucky.
And then so your adoptiveparents went to.

Speaker 3 (52:47):
Kentucky to get you or how did you end up in Ohio?
So the foster family that hadme in Kentucky they were the
husband was an OBGYN, the wifewas a stay-at-home mom and they
had already adopted children.
They had like four adoptedchildren and like two biological
, and they had this big farm andhe had all this money.
So I guess they were connectedwith Lutheran social services

(53:09):
through the foster care system.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (53:12):
When my mom and dad picked my picture out of the.
I guess I imagine it to be likecards, where you're just
looking at kids.
I don't know, but mom said theysaw my picture and they met on
the state line.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (53:27):
And pick me up.
And my dad said my mom and dadhad told me several times and I
remember they were the Smiths MsSmith came to my first and
second birthday.
Oh, that's awesome that theydid as a family or the two of
them, but she had gotten soattached to me she couldn't drop
me off.
And her husband said that shewas really depressed when they

(53:49):
found out they weren't going tohave the opportunity to adopt me
.

Speaker 1 (53:54):
Were you the only child of color in the house.

Speaker 3 (53:57):
No, oh wow, which is like serendipitous right?
How did that happen?

Speaker 1 (54:06):
Did you ever look up the Smiths?

Speaker 3 (54:09):
No, I have tried, and then I just like not, that
they're not part of my backstory.
Right, Because they are.
But I don't even know if Iwould.
What would I say?
Right?

Speaker 2 (54:22):
Well, I mean, you probably wouldn't say, but you
would say hey, I'm.

Speaker 3 (54:26):
Kizzy is what they named me.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
Kizzy, really, yeah.
So I'll say, hey, I'm Kizzy.
And then they will go oh,because you're not going to
remember them, because you wasan infant.
You was, yeah, but they would.

Speaker 3 (54:42):
And they would, they probably would, and at this
point I don't know, I guess II've thought about it and maybe,
like, done a light googlesearch, it never really went too
deep.
Um, but yeah, they named mekizzy because you know it was
roots and it was the 70s and shewas a black girl.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
So it was the legs.
It, it was the legs, that'swhat it was.

Speaker 2 (55:04):
Kizzy.
Wow, I was getting on so manylevels with that.
That is so wrong on so manylevels.
It's wrong for us now becausewe have the language and the
understanding and we know Forthem.

Speaker 3 (55:16):
they probably felt like we're giving her a strong
name, Exactly.

Speaker 1 (55:20):
There's this strong character that went through and
I'm going to build it up.
Wow, exactly.
There's this strong characterthat went through and I'm going
to build it up.

Speaker 3 (55:28):
Wow, that's amazing, it's like calling a kid dope.

Speaker 1 (55:30):
So I'm sitting here and I'm just this whole
interview.
I'm thankful to have thisopportunity for you to share
your story on this platform andit just it reminded me of the
similarities in our thinking andjust our, our spirits, and just

(55:53):
how we approached certainthings with a level of maturity
and sobriety and respect.

Speaker 3 (56:02):
Like this was a hard thing for somebody to do.
Yeah, yeah, my children awayand I mean I'm not in that
situation, thank God.
It really is a level ofsacrifice that I don't know that
I embody, to be honest you know, whatever the situation was.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
The other thing is, we have so much more information
, we have so much more support,we have so many other things now
.
Back then they didn't have whatwe have, that's true.
So they did the best with whatthey had.

Speaker 3 (56:40):
Yeah, yeah.
And what I've found out is herhome was pretty chaotic.
There was a fire.
There was, you know, adultsisters and brothers who were in
and out Not inappropriate, Imean, my aunts are very
successful, you know,educationally, but I think there

(57:02):
was.
She just got lost in the saucewas she the baby?
Yeah no, how many like she'slike mid.
That's the thing.
She was in the middle how manychildren five, five.
So she was like in the middle.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
Okay, yeah, she's in the middle and they were kind of
um spaced apart because thekids no, they were like stair
steps.
So I'm confused, me too.
How is it that you're?

Speaker 3 (57:38):
you have other sisters no, she, I do, yes, but
the sisters, my sister, oh yeah,she does yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
And they didn't.

Speaker 1 (57:48):
Like, was she that close with her?
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (57:49):
I'm saying they all living in the same house.
They lived in the same house.

Speaker 3 (57:52):
They never recognized anything.
They did not pay attention toeach other.
Now my aunts will say now weknew something was going on with
her, but we just didn't saynothing.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
Wow, wow.

Speaker 1 (58:09):
Wow, Do you think and again we don't know Do you
think she has resentment towardsthe family or just them?

Speaker 3 (58:16):
She has a very strange relationship with her
siblings.
Ok, mm hmm, very strange, ok,mm hmm, very strained, almost
almost like you guys didn't seeme, you didn't know I was
hurting, and now you all thinknow you want to celebrate it.

Speaker 1 (58:36):
Now you want it and again, from a mental health
standpoint.
That's why, again, I'munpacking it from the other side
, because you know we, just likeyou said, we don't have the
capacity to know that hurtbecause we haven't had to
exercise that muscle yeah, yep,yep.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
We have to give her grace and I do, yeah, and yeah,
it sounds like you do a lot ofgrace yeah, I do.

Speaker 3 (59:00):
I just say, you know, and I ask her sisters, because
I talk to them all the time,how's Linda?

Speaker 2 (59:05):
She's all right.

Speaker 3 (59:06):
You know you could give her a call and I'm like,
well, you can stop that, becauseI'm not You've done your part.

Speaker 2 (59:14):
You left the door open for her whenever.
If she's ever ready, she knowswhere to find you.

Speaker 3 (59:24):
Yeah, I feel like I went the extra mile, or not even
extra mile, it was for me.
But you know, hire the privateinvestigator went through the
whole process.
You know have dealt with somepretty abusive language from her
at times, and so I'm like I'mstill trying to give you grace

(59:44):
because I know that I'm a tenderspot for you.
I'm going to let you say whatyou need to say, but I want you
not meet me.

Speaker 1 (59:55):
That 1851 dilemma.

Speaker 3 (01:00:00):
You know I try to be kind and try to be courteous and
when I know that I don't havespace for that, I don't reach
out, that I don't reach outRight and you just don't know
what that true experience,because she's not sharing what
really really happened.
And what it comes up as in isanger.
So every time I'm coming home,my kids or whatever.
You know it's a small town,People know each other and you

(01:00:27):
know I went to my niece'sgraduation and her, her son, was
actually there and he was justlike looking at me, like really,
are you here, you know, and I'mlike I'm not even here for you,
sweetie, I'm here for her,Right.
Keep it, you know so it, andthat's one of the boys who is
his mama's child, and Iunderstand.
But when those things happenthere's always a little
scuttlebutt like, oh she here, Ijust don't understand.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
Well, I mean, I guess I do understand, but I just
don't understand why they are.
That your other brothers areangry at you?
Well, I can and I can't, right,you didn't ask to be here.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
Correct.
But you got to understandthey're protecting their space.

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
Yeah, I get that, but at this point it's been some
time I don't want nothing fromyou.
A hundred percent.

Speaker 3 (01:01:20):
I'm not asking for anything.
I don't want.
Really, if you don't want toshare your time, I don't want to
pull it out of you, but justknow that I am going to be in
Kentucky, I am going to visit myfather, I am going to visit my
siblings, I'm going to come tograduations and birthday parties
and it's okay.

(01:01:43):
If you don't want to see me,just close your eyes you don't
have to fool with me.

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
You fool people who want to fool with you, and
that's it.
That's it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
Too many times we fight to put people in our space
that doesn't deserve to bethere and they don't fit, and
it's okay.

Speaker 3 (01:02:02):
They may not fit this week, they may not fit next
year, they may fit in 10 years.
You may be sick, you may need akidney.
You may need one of theselittle skinny legs.

Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
Whatever, I'm going to be here, and the thing is,
what I love about you is itmakes you no difference Whether
if they want to be in your life,great.
If not, you don't keep itbecause my foundation is so firm
.

Speaker 3 (01:02:30):
It's solid and I made sure that, before I was able to
access that information, I hadthe emotional intelligence to
handle whichever way the windblew.

Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
Wimbley.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
And I'm thankful that you have matured and put away
some of your older ways ofthugging out in this season so
that you could take care of itand handle it in a good way,
Because I can see you, like yousaid at that early age, popping
off and, just you know, forgetall y'all, yeah, oh yeah, I mean
you know the back pocket'salways the back pocket, but Yep,

(01:03:04):
I mean you know the back pocketis always the back pocket, but
yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:03:10):
I mean, you know we're almost 50 now, so let's
move on?
No, I really do.
There were, you know, honestly,and some of that, some of maybe
who I was then was because ofthis experience and just very,
I'm going to protect me at allcosts Because I don't trust you.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
Right, and you not really knowing who you were Were
, because a lot of it for all weknow, she could have been one
of those type of people too.
Oh yeah, you could see a lot inyou that you know she's just
not ready to face yet.

(01:03:53):
So, um, yeah, there's a lot ofI know.
For me, there was a lot ofsimilarities to my mannerisms
and how I walked and how Italked.
To this day, even though mymother had passed my, my niece
would go oh my goodness, yousound just like granny, you

(01:04:14):
sound just like her.
So, and I didn't, you know, Ididn't, you don't know her.
I mean, I didn't know her.
I, I, I was blessed enough toknow her.
I didn't know her.
Did you get to meet her?
I got, I was blessed enough tomeet her.
Ok, good, before she passed,yes, yes, and I was there when
she took her last breath.

Speaker 3 (01:04:34):
That's amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:04:35):
Yeah, right.

Speaker 3 (01:04:36):
Oh for that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:38):
Yeah, yeah.
So we had it, we, for the shortperiod of time, the eight years
, that I am truly, trulygrateful for.
I didn't look at it from thataspect before because at first I
was like I can't keep a parent,can't keep a parent.
My adoptive parents died in 97,nine months from each other.

(01:04:58):
And then I found my biologicalmother.
She allegedly says mybiological father was deceased.
Allegedly Okay.
Until I see paperwork I canonly say allegedly Okay, and
then she passes.
I'm like can I get a break?
Can I catch a break?
So that's how I was kind ofangry with God because you

(01:05:21):
allowed me to find her and thenyou take her away from me.

Speaker 3 (01:05:24):
And still got to pour out of that parent space into
your own children.

Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
Right, but I?
I then I flipped it and says no, god allowed me to meet her.
So I had that time with herbecause he could have just as
easily me not ever be her.
Yeah, and never known and neverknown her, you know.
But ever be her, yeah, andnever known and never known her,
you know.
But so I cherish the eightyears that I did have with her

(01:05:49):
and the opportunity.
So I don't look at it as youknow.
Why did?

Speaker 3 (01:05:54):
she deficit, yeah so so early yeah, so I want to
again.

Speaker 1 (01:06:00):
um, this has just been so powerful.
One of the talking points forthis platform is the
non-traditional relationships,and I love the fact that you

(01:06:21):
said your children always had arespect for.
You know, family dynamics areon our side of the adoption, or
from the parental side, or afamily member that may be a
spouse or whatever it may be.
What type of nugget or justencouragement would you give

(01:06:42):
based on your experiences?
Just encouragement would yougive.

Speaker 3 (01:06:46):
Based on your experiences, I would say trust
that person, that adoptee enoughto go down the road with them.

(01:07:06):
Don't get ahead, don't slow themdown.
Just meet them where they are,because at the time that we are
discovering who we came from, wejust need support.
We just need support.
Sometimes there's a space forquietness.
Sometimes there's a space forquietness because we're figuring

(01:07:33):
out what this means, because itreally changes your perspective
of life.
I mean, it sounds like thethree of us had a great
foundation with our families,but it really changes.
Once you learn my birth story,once you learn my conception
story, once you learn even whathappened to your bio parents
afterwards, it's like wow, I wasthere but I wasn't.

(01:07:54):
So you have to figure out whereyou were in that story to kind
of get your bearings.
So support is what I would say.
I hope I answered that.

Speaker 1 (01:08:13):
No, you did, you did.
And as you were talking, whatcame to my mind was there's an
unbalanced equation.
We're taught from amathematical standpoint.
When you have an unbalancedequation, you have to do
something to try and balance itout, and that's what we're
trying to do.
We are handed this playing deckof cards and we played a hand
and we're dealt, but then I'mgoing to give you this extra two
cards.
Yeah, and now you are forcedwith.

(01:08:34):
How do I continue to play thegame of life without playing out
of order, being penalized?

Speaker 3 (01:08:44):
And I think inherent in, I know, for me.
I told my parents this maybetwo or three years ago.
We were just hanging out and Iwas telling them how much I love
them, because I do all the time, because they're 81 and 80.
And you know, yeah, yeah, myparents are that old, john, you
got to call daddy and 80.

(01:09:05):
And you know, yeah, yeah, myparents are there.
Oh, john, you got to call daddy.
So I see time, I see them aging, and I told them how much I
appreciated them and my dad'slike, oh no, we appreciate you
too.
And I said, no, let me tell youwhat I appreciate.
I appreciate that you wanted achild.
I appreciate that you chose meand I appreciate that you raised

(01:09:26):
me with no conditions, likejust I was any other child and I
don't think that I had evermade that distinction, because I
never wanted them to feel likeI felt adopted, right.

Speaker 2 (01:09:45):
But I wanted to acknowledge the work they put in
to get me.

Speaker 3 (01:09:48):
And my dad was like Crying yeah, I'm sure.

Speaker 2 (01:09:53):
Give them their flowers while they're still.

Speaker 3 (01:09:54):
You got to because, whether you know, however, we
came into our families.
They had to do some work on thefront end to get us.
It wasn't just like somebodythe stork dropped us off.

Speaker 2 (01:10:06):
Right, well, I still stick to that.

Speaker 3 (01:10:11):
Listen, whitney was like I had a show in Columbus Go
get that baby.
But I know that my parents hadto do a lot of work.
They had, you know, all thesocial service stuff.
They had to check theirbackground, they had to be
financially stable and all thosethings that don't happen when
you just spontaneously arepregnant.
So I wanted them and I don'tknow that I'll ever do that

(01:10:31):
again but I needed them tounderstand that.
I know that you had to put inwork to get this fool that you
had to raise and I appreciatey'all, but I'm better, but I'm
better.

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
You know I'm better.

Speaker 3 (01:10:48):
Going through those high school times and college
and just figuring out who youare that's tough.
And they didn't have to.

Speaker 2 (01:11:01):
Wow, this has been great.

Speaker 1 (01:11:04):
Thank you, this was awesome.
I am thankful that you werewilling to do it, of course.
Thank you for the transparency.
Yeah, thank you very much, andnext week let's make it a
reality.
Do a FaceTime so I can see youfolks oh yeah, okay 100%.
Oh my gosh, my dad would losehis mind.
Yeah, so I can see your folks.
Oh yeah, ok, a hundred percent.

Speaker 3 (01:11:24):
We've been talking about it, for I know a good time
.
Oh my gosh, my dad would losehis mind.

Speaker 1 (01:11:28):
Yeah, don't even tell him.
You, just I'm not.
Hey, let's get it.

Speaker 3 (01:11:33):
Let's get it OK, all right.
Well, thank you all for havingme.

Speaker 1 (01:11:36):
I appreciate it this was therapeutic different levels
, yeah, just very therapeutic.
So the way that we close, I'llsay my name, lisa will say her
name and then I'll say your name, and then we say and we are
adopted.
So for the nugget, I think thatthat is huge to support the
episode that we did previously.

(01:11:57):
We had our spouses on.
Oh yeah, that's huge.
Right, we talked about how usbeing adopted impacts our
outlook on certain things.

Speaker 3 (01:12:08):
And maybe in ways I don't even know.
You know Sean might be able togive some more insight.
I have to ask him Watch.

Speaker 1 (01:12:14):
Watch our previous episode and I'm thankful that my
wife was patient with me andshe saw things and you know you
go back when you talk about whenyou were pregnant how that was
the springboard.
So for me, being the father ofJayla, be having to put those
NAs down.
My wife saw my face and thehurt that I had in the

(01:12:36):
embarrassment and it wasn'tbecause of anything I did.
This is the hand that I've beendealt, so I think that you know
your spouse plays a verysignificant role because they
can continue to support and push, or they can make it so that
now you have a different levelof shame.
Yeah, oh, yeah.
So thank you again.

Speaker 3 (01:12:58):
Yes, thank you Absolutely.
Thank you, guys.
That's the Lakeshore connection.

Speaker 1 (01:13:06):
Oh, my God, I wish.

Speaker 2 (01:13:07):
I get the opportunity to meet you in person, probably
homecoming or something.

Speaker 1 (01:13:11):
She ain't been here in 30.

Speaker 3 (01:13:14):
No, not since 2001.
I keep saying I'm coming, I'mcoming, I'm coming, and it's
like, but this year we can do it.
All my babies are big.
Ok, both my babies are big.
Both my babies are big.

Speaker 1 (01:13:27):
Well, here's the thing, just let me know.
Well, I ain't here, no more,I'm tripping.

Speaker 3 (01:13:33):
I know you got to fly in for Florida.

Speaker 1 (01:13:37):
I might have two at Hampton, but we'll see.
I'm John.

Speaker 2 (01:13:43):
And I'm Lisa.

Speaker 1 (01:13:48):
Oh, and I'm Kalilah, absolutely.
Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:13:53):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:13:54):
And we'll talk soon.

Speaker 2 (01:13:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:05):
Thank you for listening to the so I'm Adopted
podcast.
We hope that this wasinformative and educational.
You can follow us on Instagramand Facebook at so I'm Adopted.
Also, subscribe to our YouTubechannel so I'm Adopted.
And again, thank you forlistening and until next time,

(01:14:29):
make the choice to begin yourhealing journey.