April 25, 2024 • 55 mins
Embarking on a heartwarming journey, we honor the intricate stories of adoption that have influenced lives from the humblest beginnings to the heights of influence. We pay tribute to the riveting adoption tales of figures like Nelson Mandela, whose story resonates with the biblical Moses, and actress Lynn Moody, biological daughter who uncovered her as her mother in the most surprising way. These narratives not only shed light on their personal identities but also weave into the broader human experience, capturing our imaginations and anchoring our latest discussion.
Navigating the complex web of family dynamics, we sit down with an adoptee turned mother, who gives us a raw look into the emotional kaleidoscope found in families with both adopted and biological children. Her candid sharing unravels the layers of love, anger, and reconciliation that accompany the lifelong adoption journey. The conversation goes beyond personal anecdotes, illuminating the significance of the first family, the nuances within the adoption lexicon, and the solidarity found in support groups and podcasts—a testament to the resilience and community within the adoption narrative.
In our final chapter, we find courage in vulnerability as our guest recount her own adoption story and its profound impact on her approach to parenting and professional life. The past and present collide, revealing how pre-verbal memories and trauma can resurface in unexpected ways, particularly when forging connections in our roles as a parent. We also delve into the emotional complexities of reuniting with biological relatives, exploring the multifaceted nature of gratitude and familial love. It's an intimate look at how the quest for identity and connection shapes us, binds us, and inspires us to evolve in our understanding of family and self. Join us as we traverse this deeply human experience, seeking understanding in the shared and unique paths of adoption.
Music by Curtis Rodgers IG @itsjustcurtis
Produce and Edited by Lisa Sapp
Executive Producer Lisa Sapp
Executive Producer Johnnie Underwood
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Welcome to the so I'm Adopted podcast, where we talk
everything adoption.
This journey is not one we takealone.
Together we grapple with rawemotions that surface from
adoption stories.
We want you to be comfortableenough to heal, so sit back and
go with us on this journey as wedive deep into adoption.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
We wanted to create a space for adoption truth.
We have a common bond of beingadopted.
Our stories are very, verydifferent, absolutely.
So we wanted to have ourconversations and allow other
people to hear our conversationsand also be able to share
theirs as well.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
You know, this podcast is where we will hear
our adoption stories from otheradoptees, adoptive parents and
biological families.
We will also have input fromlicensed professionals such as
psychologists, social workers,to get a deeper understanding of
this adoption journey.
Hopefully, these stories andperspectives will give hope and
(01:21):
understanding and courage tothose who are adopted or who are
thinking about you know, beingadopted, along with the journey
of acceptance, reconciliationand maintenance of being adopted
, you know those are going to besome of the anchors that we
will highlight each time we comeon this podcast.
We want to welcome you to thesixth episode of so I'm Adopted.
(01:43):
I'm John.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
And I'm Lisa.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
And we're adopted.
So we are at our sixth episode.
It is mind blowing, I promiseyou.
Last episode we had aconversation where we talked
about foster care and we got somuch information from our guests
.
She reached out to Lisa andwanted to come on the show and
can you talk about just how inthat conversation, how she
(02:08):
reached out and what she shared?
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Yes, so she was just telling us her background, her
own journey, growing up in Ibelieve it's Ohio, and she's
also in the same profession thatyou're in.
So she wants to, you know.
No, last week the fifth episode.
Oh, the fifth, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
We're already jumping ahead.
That's how exciting thisepisode is going to be.
She's already jumping ahead.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
I'm so sorry, yes.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
The foster care, foster care.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Yes, I am so sorry, it's okay, forgive me A little.
This real, this is real.
Allison Davidson.
Yes, she's a friend of mine, avery good friend of mine, and
she was a wealth of knowledgefor us.
So once I found out what herprofession was, I was like, oh,
(02:55):
she's perfect.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
She's got to jump on.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Yes, perfect, and she was more than happy to come on
and share her expertise inregards to the foster care
system and all the intricaciesthat it entails.
Got it, got it.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
So definitely check that one out.
Remember to catch us on socialmedia.
We have Instagram, we have onFacebook, we have email, so
please reach out.
We have a new segment that wewant to start off with and we're
going to just talk about famousindividuals that were adopted.
But when I began to do someresearch, one of the first names
(03:32):
that came up it wasn'tnecessarily the big shock that
he was adopted, but theintricate pieces of it surprised
me, and it was Nelson Mandela.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Really.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
So Nelson Mandela, his father passed away when he
was now this is where the datais a little sketchy.
It said some said nine, somesaid twelve, uh, but once his
father passed away, he was thenadopted by the leaders of the
and I'm going to make sure I sayit correctly of the um and I'm
going to mess it up, but it wasa big tribe in his, in his land,
(04:03):
and then he was adopted and helived with that family and as I
read it, I thought about moses,think about moses's story, where
he was brought in by the kingand then he carried out.
So it's very parallel to lookat these stories and I think
it's good for us to bring lightto all of the different
variations of thesenon-traditional relationships.
(04:23):
Ultimately, that's what thishas evolved to.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Yes, yeah, and I also have a famous person as well.
Okay, so you remember that show.
That's my mama Back in the day,yeah, so let's imagine you
being a little kid and youwatching that show, growing up,
mm-hmm, and fast forward 50years later.
(04:46):
Right, you find out that allthat time, that woman that was
your mama, that was a characteron that show.
So, let me, that was, that wasyour mom, not my mom, oh, okay
well another, lisa's mama okay,all right, all right, her name
is Lisa as well, and so she wasadopted when she was young.
(05:10):
Okay, her parents had passedaway, and that's when she
decided that she wanted to goahead and, you know, start
searching for her adoptivemother.
The story that she told herabout her biological mother was
that she loved her and she knewshe couldn't take care of her.
So, you know, just think aboutthat you have two mothers.
(05:32):
So she gave her a piece, in asense, that some kids were like,
well, why was you know, why didthey, you know, get rid of me,
or whatever.
She never had that sensebecause of how her adoptive
mother presented the bio mom toher.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Got it, that make sense.
Yeah, it makes lots of sense.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
So once her adoptive parents passed away, she started
you know, she's like her sonencouraged her, so we'll know,
you know, know who we are, whoour people are or whatever.
So she got some information,got the name and she googled it
Lynn Moody and she was like, ohokay, and she said wait a minute
(06:12):
watch that show.
Wait a minute you know becauseshe saw her face.
But you know, lynn Moody hasbeen in Roots, she's been in a
few other things, roots andsomething else but she knew the
face.
And one of her girlfriends saidyou know what, remember we were
(06:35):
growing up, I kept telling youyou look like her.
She said, but you know, shenever really paid any attention,
never thought about it, neverthought about it.
And so the reason why she wasshe never really paid any
attention, never thought aboutit.
And so the reason why she wasshe gave up for adoption.
Lynn gave up for adoption.
She was 18.
She was just going to school inCalifornia.
(06:55):
She met a guy one night standgot pregnant.
You know, family was, I think,from Chicago prestige, pregnant.
You know, family was, I think,from Chicago prestige.
And you know, back then, whenyou go to this away from home,
you go to the home, the high, topregnant.
So she had the baby.
And what stood out to me andthe video that I saw this was
(07:21):
when she had an interview on theTamara Hall show.
I think it was 2021.
Then again in 2022, 2023.
What stood out to me that onceshe met her for the first time,
she had that healing.
She said I was healed, and Iresonate with that, because my
mother said that she was brokentoo, and when I came back, she
(07:44):
was healed.
You know she was broken too,and when, when I came back, she
was healed.
That's awesome you know, and shesaid, even though a lot of good
things happened in my life withher, her fame and all this
stuff, her knowing that therewas a child out there that was
her, her daughter.
But you know, she pursued hercareer and everything, but she
still had that hole.
That hole was always there.
And she said she tried to findher at one point, but she still
(08:05):
had that hole.
That hole was always there.
And she said she tried to findher at one point, but because
she gave all of her rights awayin order for her to be deaf, she
couldn't.
She couldn't find anything.
So she was just amazed that now,after all this year, she never
got married, she never had anyother kids.
Then she has a daughter andthen she has a grandson.
All of this and she couldn'tbelieve that all of a sudden I
(08:30):
have a daughter and a grandson.
So for over a year she keptcalling them, not calling them
by his name, she was callingthem grandson and calling her
daughter because she neverexperienced it before, it was
all new to her.
Yeah, so that was a nice, warmand fuzzy one.
(08:50):
They live maybe 10 miles awayfrom each other in California.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Awesome.
Everything happens for a reason.
This week on our episode, wehave another individual that I'm
excited about.
I'm excited because she's haveanother individual that I'm
excited about and I'm excitedbecause she's in the field that
I'm in.
She reached out on email, shewent through LinkedIn and was
looking, and because I'm a BCBAand she's a BCBA and I'll have
her talk about the field becauseit talks about behavior and the
(09:18):
environment, so it's reallyembedded in everything we do.
So we have Sarah McFadden andwe want to let her in the room
and then, once she gets in, Iwill read her bio.
Hey, sarah.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Hey, sarah, hi.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
This is Sarah and again I want to read her bio.
I talked a little bit about it,but I want everybody to see who
I was talking about.
We are excited that you arehere today.
So Sarah is a dedicatedprofessional with over a decade
of experience in the field ofbehavior analysis.
As a board certified behavioranalyst, she specializes in
providing positive behaviormanagement, support and coaching
(09:58):
in public school settings.
Sarah is deeply committed topromoting and advocating for
trauma-informed practices andhas a passion for sharing her
knowledge in this area witheducators.
In addition to her work in thepublic school setting, sarah has
recently begun exploringavenues to extend her impact
(10:20):
through adoption-specific,trauma-informed caregiving,
training and behavior support.
I love that Sarah's personaljourney as an American domestic
adoptee has deeply influencedher professional path.
In reunion with her biologicalfamily, who she refers to as her
first family, sarah hasnavigated the complexities of
(10:43):
loss and connection, drawingstrength from her experiences to
better understand and supportothers in similar situations.
In addition to identifying as abehavior analyst and adult
adoptee, sarah is a wife and amother of two.
She finds great joy andfulfillment in her role as a
parent.
Her children have brought a newdepth of meaning to her life,
(11:08):
allowing her to experience thecloseness she has always yearned
for as an adoptee.
We're going to get into that.
That's awesome.
So, Sarah welcome.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Welcome, Sarah.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Yes, and before we start, I just want to make sure
that you know you're in thisframe with me, so we're just
going to do a little.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Can you see both of us?
I think it's just short becauseof.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Yeah, that's good.
So there you go, all right.
So, sarah, always, we alwayslike to start off with this main
question when did you?
Speaker 1 (11:49):
So I don't really remember a time that I didn't
know.
I've just always grown up beingtold that.
You know, that's a part of mystory.
When I was two and a half three, my parents were considering
adoption of a child in fostercare who's in foster care with
(12:13):
their friends and although thatdidn't work out as we were, they
were going through that process.
They were.
They explained it to me and Iremember from a young age
reading a book called how youWere Born and it had pictures of
a developing fetus or baby andand then it also described
(12:36):
childbirth and how babies cameto be.
And when we would read it theywould include my story and say
you know, you have a mother thatgave birth to you in this way.
But you came to us, her arriveand I knew that she was coming
and I remember just laying inthe floor waiting for her to get
(13:09):
there and she arrived in alimousine, which was exciting
because I don't think I had everseen anything like that at you
know, four um, wow.
(13:31):
So yeah, it was so.
It was so normalized um that bythe time it started becoming a
question in school you know theicebreaker of tell us something
that's unique about you.
I would use that that I'madopted as my unique thing and I
get all these questions and Ididn't understand why it wasn't
normal for everyone else becauseit had been so normalized for
me.
So I just I had always known,and it was just always a part of
(13:55):
the story that my parents toldme Awesome.
So outside of you and yoursister, so it was just the two
of you no, so my um youngersister was adopted into our
family when I was four and thenmy parent, my adoptive parents,
(14:16):
uh, had my they by they um, hada natural born son, my younger
brother, when I was seven.
So I have a younger brother anda younger sister in my adoptive
family.
So that was also a uniquedynamic of our family, just
having both adoption andbiological children.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
So speak to that a little bit.
Can you do a little more of thedynamics of that?
So having a birth child andthen two adoptive children, how
was that?
Was it different, or did theytreat everybody was pretty much
the same.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, so I think there's a lot of different
dynamics that are at play, butit there was a very clear
difference and I think a lot ofit had to do.
I didn't understand it at thetime but now, as a mother, I
(15:19):
understand it.
I just I think that there's abonding that happens to a mother
when she grows a baby, andthere's a lot of oxytocin and
and things that happen that justcreate this natural bonding,
especially if you'rebreastfeeding.
Um, I don't, I don't know whatthe research says about that,
(15:40):
but I don't think that it is asstrong with an adopted child.
Um, at least it did not seem tobe.
I just there was like a naturalrhythm to when my, my brother,
was born and their relationshipand and there was there was a
(16:02):
difference absolutely and in ina lot of regards.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
And how old were you when he was born?
Speaker 1 (16:09):
I was seven.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
So, seven, you were able to recognize a shift and
you were aware of theenvironment changing.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
I don't know that.
I would say that I recognizedit at seven for what it was.
I recognized it at seven forwhat it was.
(16:41):
I think that at seven there wasa lot going on.
Also, my sister, my, you know,we all came of age, um, and as
my brother, uh, you know, as atoddler, he was my mother's
shadow, just always there, um,very similar in personality to
to her and my father, and thathe was a bit more calm and
(17:03):
subdued and would entertainhimself for hours and just very
compliant, just very differentbut also very alike to them as I
(17:31):
got older and became moreself-reflective, and then also
reflective of everything aroundme.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
I noticed that there were definitely differences.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
How do you feel about that?
I don't know that.
I had a specific feeling that Ialways attached throughout my
life with mental health and, youknow, coming of age and going
(18:10):
through adolescence.
I think there were times that Iwas angry.
I think there were times that Iwas sad.
There were times where it madesense that, you know, that's the
way that it was, especially asI became a mother.
So I think it's so complex toreally put a single feeling on
(18:35):
it.
There was definitely times ofresentment and there's probably
some still lingering resentmentthere, um for sure, and I think
my sister also, um shares thatsame feeling.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Okay, did your sister go into the mental health field
as well?
Speaker 1 (18:58):
no, she didn't.
I try not to tell her story forher, but yeah, that's fine,
absolutely.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
I was just curious because a lot of times, those of
us that have gone through theadoption journey, we find
ourselves indirectly being inthat support place.
So that's why I was asking.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Yeah, absolutely For me, and I think we both had
different stories too.
Um, whereas my parents, uh, ouradoptive parents, told me the
story that my mother wanted tokeep me, but she couldn't, they
didn't have that same story,they didn't have a lot of
background knowledge about heror her um first family, so they,
(19:40):
they didn't have that samestory to tell her and they
didn't.
I don't think that they.
I mean, I now know that theydidn't tell me, that they didn't
just make up that story and sothey didn't just make up one for
her.
They just didn't have anyinformation for her.
And so I think that we bothprocess our adoptions
(20:00):
differently, in part because ofthat.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Understood.
I love the fact that you usefirst family.
It was in your bio and then youjust said it again.
Where did that come from?
Speaker 1 (20:13):
So it's pretty common in the adoption community, but
it, you know, biological placesso much distance and just makes
it feel mechanical and it's itdoesn't really honor the fact
that they are your family andthey were your first family.
They were the family thatbrought you into this world and
(20:36):
that's an important fact for me,for my story, of my story.
I know that not every adopteeuses that language, but it's
important for me to just honorthem as my first family.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
I love that I know and, again, from our standpoint,
we don't know the language andthe common terms, so I feel like
an outsider with regards tojust the knowledge.
That's why this podcast is soimportant, because you have
those of us who again think thatour journey is so unique that
it's only us.
But there's so much informationthat is out there Like I didn't
(21:14):
know about an adopteeconference that takes place.
There are lots of supports, soit's just a wealth of
information and hopefully we canbegin to just be that resource
to help people get theinformation.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Yes, yeah, a whole community that we, as adoptees,
were not aware of not aware andI didn't know that there is a
conference.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
I know that there's a lot of different podcasts and
meetings and groups online andin person.
Yeah there, there's a lot outthere.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
So I definitely will have to share that conference
information.
We'll send it to you in email.
So any other questions aboutthe younger years and stuff
before we jump, because I'mexcited about the ABA part of it
and how it impacts it.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Oh, you go right ahead because.
I saw my phone and I don't knowmy questions.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
That's fine, no problem.
So how do you think you beingadopted impacts your approach to
working with clients andparents?
Speaker 1 (22:22):
So that's a pretty complex question and I feel like
I'm still starting or stillprocessing and sorting things
out.
I think I'm.
I've always had a very specialplace in my heart for kids who
(22:42):
struggle and at a young age mysister had behavioral issues and
through the dynamics of ourfamily, I would often feel like
I had to fix the situation andfigure out how to remedy it, and
(23:03):
I think a lot of it wasprobably escape from the
aversiveness that was herbehavior and the fighting and
the screaming that surroundedour home and I think I was
always trying to understandmyself, understand her, and so
that's kind of, I think, how Igot into it.
(23:25):
But I think it affects mypractice in that I am very
sensitive towards making surethat I'm trauma informed and
that I use trauma informedpractices and I don't think that
trauma, I assume trauma.
I don't ever wait to hear thatthey've been traumatized or that
(23:46):
they have trauma or PTSD or adiagnosis.
I just assume it with everyonebecause really we've all
experienced traumatic events inour lives and it's just the
human experience and we allprocess those events differently
and some of those events reallyimpact us and our ability to
(24:08):
move on normally.
That's an air quotes foranybody who can't see the video,
but it just it impacts all ofus and so you know our field
doesn't have the greatestreputation for being sensitive
(24:29):
to our clients.
Our field has a pretty badreputation and there's a lot of
trauma that has been caused.
If you listen to autisticvoices, there's a lot of trauma
that has been caused by ourfield and using forced
compliance and punitive things,because we know how to
manipulate behavior.
(24:49):
You know we use the science tomanipulate behavior and whether
or not it's with good intent orbad intent or neutral intent, it
still impacts the people thatwe and our clients and our
students and the people that wewe serve.
So for me, I think adoptionjust impacts my sensitivity
(25:13):
towards that.
To always try to ensure thatI'm not just using good intent
but I'm also paying attention tothe client, to recognize if
what I'm doing is a positiveexperience or a punishing
experience.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Awesome.
I love the fact that you saidwe all go through trauma and I
think we have to use thatlanguage because a lot of times
we go through traumaticexperiences and we just brush it
under the rug.
And I think for our generation,in this season, now we have the
language to really understandand the research to call things
what they were.
Prior to, they really didn'tunderstand what trauma was.
(25:55):
It was, oh, that's just life orthat's just this.
Well, there are so many lastingimpacts of that.
So I want to ask now because inyour body we also learned that
you were a parent how do youthink your adoption journey and
you went into it a little bit,where you talked about you had
to be the protector and fixerhow do you think being adopted
(26:17):
impacts your parenting lens?
Speaker 1 (26:20):
So I think, in pretty unexpected ways, I think that I
didn't realize that I hadlasting trauma until I had kids.
I don't think I was effect.
I was, um, experiencing theextent of my past, the trauma
(26:48):
that I've, you know, experiencedfrom adoption until I had kids,
because as a baby, when you'rean infant, I was adopted as an
infant.
So I don't remember beingrelinquished, I don't remember,
um my first mother being amother to me as a child or baby.
(27:10):
So I think that and there'sresearch that shows that we have
different types of memory.
So there's implicit memory,which are our feelings and our
emotions, and there's explicitmemory, which are stored in a
(27:31):
verbal way where we can retellthose memories.
And because I was adopted at apre-verbal age, I didn't have
those verbal memories.
But I think that I had a lot ofimplicit memories.
I had a lot of emotionalflooding that happened and I
couldn't explain it and and alot of anxiety and and it even
(27:54):
still surfaces in differenttimes.
Like I'm great at beingnon-reactive at work
professionally, and so I thoughtI was well-equipped to be a
parent and I know that some ofthat is just every parent's
experience but, um, it's beenreally, really tough in a way
that I never, ever imagined thatit would be Like not just what
(28:22):
I would say normal frustration,but it's been emotionally tough.
Tough, I think, to be to becomea parent, um, but I also think
that I appreciate being a parentbecause it's a connection that
(28:42):
I always longed for, that Ididn't have, um, and I I always
wanted you know, like even justsimply simply seeing someone
that looks like me in myeveryday life.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Right, yes.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Uh, you know, I don't other than, uh, you know, our
height, stature, my adoptive momand I don't really resemble
each other.
Mom and I don't really resembleeach other, and so I mean that
alone just I'll catch my kidsmaking facial expressions and it
, you know, kind of catches youoff guard here and there.
(29:26):
Did you always want kids.
When you were growing up, didyou say I want to have kids, I
want to have a house full ofkids, or what.
So I played with dolls from avery, very young age and I
remember I think it was secondor third grade we had to draw a
picture of what we wanted to bewhen we grew up, and I drew a
house with myself and kids.
And what I wanted to be when Igrew up was a mom.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Go ahead.
I've just always, I've alwayswanted to be a mom.
So I've just always, I'vealways wanted to be a mom.
I've always wanted to toexperience that.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
So you had mentioned always wanting to be a mom, a
relationship that you reallydidn't have.
Can you speak to that?
As far as your relationshipwith your adoptive mom, how did
that look?
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah.
So, again, it's complex and Iget a little anxious talking
about it because I know thatpeople who are adopted will say
I've talked to enough adopteesthat they get it, but it's
something that very rarely I'vetalked to a non-adoptee and
(30:33):
they've gotten it.
You just kind of know that thatconnection isn't isn't what it.
You know what it could be, thatthere's something lacking there
.
I I think that that, for me,was grounded in in the
relationship that my parents hadwith my brother, um, and that
(30:56):
they didn't have with my sister.
I, um, there's just a closenessthat is hard for me and, um, I
I've done some um professionaldevelopment, more on a personal
level, about differentattachment styles, and I'd say
that I'm I have a an avoidantattachment style.
(31:21):
Relationships are really hardfor me and that being close and
being vulnerable is really hardfor me.
It's it's hard for me toconnect and let other people in,
and and I never really feltlike I had an authentic, close,
genuine relationship with myparents in a way that I saw all
(31:44):
of my friends havingrelationships with their parents
.
So I think it was a lot of thatenvironmental.
I was very, I was always veryself-aware, um, and I was always
very aware of relationships.
It was, it was something thatinterests me so much, and I
think that that is also why Iwas so interested in my sister
and and went into the field thatI did go in.
(32:05):
Um, I was just always sofascinated by relationships and
I think it was because I alwaysknew that mine seemed different
and I didn't know why, and Iwanted to explain it.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
Interesting Wow.
Yeah that's wow.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Even being adoptees, we listening to your story and I
think this is why it's power inour stories, because it's so
many like check the boxes that Ican relate to, but then there
are some things that I'm like,hmm, never thought about it that
way.
So I just think that this, thispool of adoptees, has the
potential to really just helpand heal and encourage one
(32:43):
another.
So I want to ask this questionDo you think and I think I know
the answer, because in listeningto what you have said
previously do you think thatthere's a level of trauma in all
adoptee stories and journeys?
Speaker 1 (32:59):
So this, what this?
I have, I think, a couple ofdifferent answers for that, or
maybe a couple parts of ananswer for that.
I have a lot of trauma-informedcare, training and professional
development.
So when I think of trauma,there's a couple different
(33:23):
things that I think about, whichare events that we experience
that are, by their nature,traumatic.
A car accident is traumatic.
Seeing somebody get assaultedis traumatic.
There are different events thatcan be perceived as traumatic,
(33:45):
but we also all experience andperceive and process those
events differently.
And so there may be one personthat sees a car accident and
maybe it's a really bad caraccident.
There's two witnesses One seesit from and they go home and
(34:06):
they just can't get over it homeand they just can't get over it
and they have to seek outcounseling because they can't
keep like.
They keep reliving that visualin their head over and over and
over again.
There might be another witnesswho goes home, tells their
partner hey, you wouldn'tbelieve this accident that I saw
.
And then you know, when theyrecall it later, there's no
emotional reaction that comes up, it was just something that
(34:29):
happened to them.
So we all process these eventsdifferently.
And then there's repeatedtrauma, so you might call it
small T trauma.
There are these events that aretraumatic events and they
happen over and over and overagain and so that over and over
and over again can pile up.
And then you have your big Ttrauma, which are like very
(34:53):
extreme traumatic events, youknow assault, rape, abuse, those
things that.
But we all still process andexperience them different.
So that's the trauma piece.
And when you talk about adoption, even with infant adoption, you
(35:14):
take an infant that's been,that has grown, literally come
to life for nine months in abody, and they hear the voices
and they have the smells of thatmother.
They learn the rhythm of thegait of that mother, they hear
the heartbeat of that mother.
They hear the rhythm of thegait of that mother.
They hear the heartbeat of thatmother.
They hear the voices of thepeople that that mother
(35:36):
surrounds themselves with, andthat's what that infant knows.
Whether they have language toform, to process around it,
that's what that infant knows.
And we all have a survivalinstinct and when you are born
your brain is only developedsuch that your survival instinct
is really what drives you.
(35:57):
So babies cry and they makedifferent sounds and they root
for their mother's breast andit's all just survival based and
it's all just survival based.
And so the baby comes outknowing the mother's voice and
knowing that safety and security, and that's how they're going
(36:18):
to survive, and that's howthey're going to get their food,
and that's how you know, that'swhat they've known.
(36:38):
And to suddenly not have thatanymore, and that's a traumatic
event.
That is a child no longerhearing the safety and the
familiarity that it's only everknown and then as that child you
know a lot of children are withtheir first family for some
amount of time beforerelinquishment.
You know you talked aboutfoster care last week.
Some of those kids might havebeen quite old before they
entered the foster care systemand that builds that history of
(37:06):
where they can access safety andsecurity and to just abruptly
remove that, that's a trauma.
And so I think that all adopteesexperience a traumatic event.
But I also think that adopteesexperience and process that
traumatic event differently.
(37:26):
So in the community of adopteesthere are some adoptees who say
that they've had a wonderfulexperience, they're very
grateful for being adopted andthey had really wonderful
adoptive parents, and they don'tunderstand the other people
that are saying you know, I haveall this trauma because there
(37:47):
is another side that is sayingI've incurred all this trauma
and so I think it's a spectrumand I think, just like most
things we all, there is aspectrum to it and we process
things differently.
That also can influence howthat trauma and how that
(38:13):
traumatic event impacts whetheror not that person is then
traumatized or perceives it as atraumatization.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Awesome, I love your answer.
That's awesome.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
That was good.
Yes, so just switching gearsjust a little bit.
What's your currentrelationship?
Whoa, before I ask thatquestion, did you ever try to
seek out your first family?
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Yeah, so when I turned 18, so I had always known
that I was adopted and myparents actually had adopted
adoption records from myadoption out photocopied files,
probably around the time that Ineeded my birth certificate,
(39:15):
because I had my original birthcertificate within those files,
just with like white out over myfirst mom's name and any
identifiable information was wascrossed out so that I could not
see.
It.
Was crossed out so that I couldnot see it, but we did.
There was, I think, john.
(39:35):
You had a similar scenariowhere there was a little bit of
a name.
It was only her first name, butwe we thought that her name was
Margaret and it was her name'sMargaret, or her name was
Margaret, but she went by Margo.
Okay, so when I turned 18, Iwas adopted through a private
agency and my parents had keptin contact with the lawyer and
(40:00):
he had always said, you know, onthe on her 18th birthday, if
you're comfortable and she wantsto, like, I will help you guys
find the, find her first family,or every.
They all refer to itbiologically.
So he did some searching andactually found my family through
(40:21):
my older brother.
My first mom had a son who shehad raised the older half
brother, so she had had him, wasraising him, and when she gave
me up for adoption and I I hadactually known this I found out
they knew that I had an olderbrother and I was made aware of
it.
Oh, okay, yes, lee, so itwasn't a surprise to me, but
(40:46):
that's how they, my lawyer, wasable to find my first family was
through him, because he, he's acomputer nerd, so he was online
and she wasn't, and he was.
My lawyer was able to find himand I talked to her on my 18th
birthday.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Wow, how was that?
How was that?
Speaker 1 (41:09):
It was not what I expected, I think.
You know, I think as adoptees,especially if you know that
you're adopted.
Growing up, because some yeah,some don't, and and I know, lisa
, you share that story butgrowing up knowing that you're
(41:35):
adopted, there's a lot offantastical ideas that flow
through.
And you know Alanis MorissetteI was convinced that she was my
mother because I loved her musicand I cannot give a rhyme or
reason other than we both haddark hair.
I cannot give a rhyme or reasonother than we both had dark hair
.
It's pretty common, I think,for adoptees to see famous
(42:00):
people and think that you knowwhat if?
And I knew that they didn'tlive around.
You know, live near.
I knew that I was born inLouisiana, so I didn't have the
same experience of lookingaround everywhere I went and
thinking maybe I was related tothem, but I would all the time
(42:21):
think that somebody on TV, longstory short.
I was expecting all of thesefantasies and then, when I
talked to my, my biological mom,it was a reality.
And there was also this partwhere she remembered being
(42:45):
pregnant with me and having meand had always thought about me.
She named me, Hope, and hadwritten my name on my birthday
in every calendar that she hadever owned.
So we had this, you know,emotional connection that she
(43:06):
felt for me, but I didn't.
I didn't share that because shewas a stranger to me and I had
grown up with parents and afamily and so I didn't
understand she.
I think it was like our secondor third time that we talked and
(43:27):
she told me that she loved meand I just was not not ready for
that.
So yeah, it was complex.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
Wow.
So when she said that she lovedyou, I know how I felt when I
heard that for the first time.
It was because I was like, well, I don't know you, I don't know
you, so how can you love me?
But I got it.
But I was, I mean, my.
My adoptive mother loved me.
(44:01):
She showered me in all thesethings.
Do you think I know how I felt?
But do you think therelationship that you had with
your adoptive mother made youfeel that way?
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Yeah, but in a different way.
So it was more of like a guilttrip, but a covert one, so it
was.
I just remember my adoptive momsaying don't forget who your
real mother is, who raised you,don't go replacing me.
(44:37):
And to me there was a lot ofcomplexity in that, because I
never felt especially close toher or especially seen by her or
loved in the way that I feltlike I needed to be loved by her
.
But she did provide for me andshe did care for me and I had,
um, you know, I I was raisedwith privilege, whereas I
(44:59):
wouldn't have been had I grownup with my biological mother and
and so there's all this complex, weird pressure to feel
grateful and thankful, um, andcomplex feelings around that.
And then the person that wassupposed to be there or and I
(45:19):
don't think I processed like, Idon't think I had the words for
it, but I think I felt it.
You know, the connection that Ihad always longed for, that
person that I had always longedfor, was telling me that they
love me, but they weren't therewhen I needed those connections.
They weren't there to offerthat, and they were now telling
(45:40):
me they were now offering it.
But so you know.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
And you didn't know what that looked like because
you didn't have that.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
Yeah, so there was some and I think at the time I
thought of it as well.
I have my, I had a family thatwas good to me, and I don't know
you, but I think there was alot of under the surface things
(46:08):
that I'm now starting tounderstand and putting a
language to that.
I didn't understand why I hademotions that I had when I first
met her.
Speaker 3 (46:19):
I can understand that .
Speaker 2 (46:21):
So what's your?
Speaker 3 (46:22):
relationship with, with your adoptive family and
your first family today.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
So my Margo, my first mother, uh, and I I did like
later in life meet my firstfather and they both um.
So Margo passed away about 10years after we met, um, and then
(46:52):
my first father passed awayabout six years ago, and it was
about two years after we had met, and so I think it was.
But so obviously you know thathappened.
But I had a half brother, amaternal half brother and a
(47:15):
paternal half brother, and thenI'm I've also gotten to know my,
my mother's brother and sisterquite well and I have cousins,
and so I met all of them when Iwas 18.
And I quickly developed areally close relationship with
my older brother, her son and myaunt.
(47:36):
My first aunt has come to visitme with my cousin and her
husband and my uncle my uncleand my aunt.
I should say my uncle's gonna belike, well, I came too, but
they both came and visited me,and so it's.
But they live in Florida andI'm in Ohio, so there's a long
(47:58):
distance relationship piece toit that has made it really hard
to build that connection in away that is as close as maybe I
would have hoped and theymight've hoped for, um, and then
I I'm not, as I I met my firstfather later in life and as well
(48:18):
as that brother, so it I don'tknow much about that side of the
family.
I did meet them in person, butwe aren't as close.
And as for my adoptive family,it's it's, it's complex.
I think again, as a parent, I'mrealizing all of these things
(48:45):
that I didn't know were there.
And in addition to that, we'vemoved back in with them for the
time being, as my husband and Isort through some finances to be
able to purchase a house.
So we're and I think thatthere's a lot in childhood that
(49:07):
we paint with a rainbow picturethat maybe we don't remember,
you know, and it's probably agood thing, it's probably our,
our minds, protecting us fromthings that are unnecessary,
unnecessary to really ruminateover, or um, but moving back in
(49:28):
has reminded me, or or reawakenthose memories that weren't so
pleasant and, um, like, theparenting style is very
different.
So then there's also this likelittle bit of a power struggle
of like wanting the autonomy toparent the way that I parent,
(49:48):
and also feeling reallytriggered by the way that they
parent, and so it's complex.
I would say I don't really knowLike I feel, like that's a
whole other conversation.
Speaker 3 (50:08):
Part two for you.
Speaker 2 (50:10):
So I want to give space to you because if anyone
is in the area that you know hasquestions or from a
professional standpoint, do youmind sharing your information so
that they can reach out to youin that?
Speaker 1 (50:25):
area.
The best contact is probably myemail, and it's Sarah McFadden,
so S-A-R-A-H-M-C-F-A-D-D-E-Ndot B-C-B-A at gmailcom.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
So I want to ask this question being able to share
your story, finding this podcast, finding this, what is your
thought or how does it make youfeel with this opportunity of
being able to share your storyhere with us this evening?
Speaker 1 (51:01):
I was really excited yesterday and then today I was
like, oh shit, like sorry it was.
You know it's, it's a lot to,and I've I've shared it with
other adoptees in a very uh, youknow small group or online in a
(51:23):
safe space.
Um, this is different and I'malso trying to kind of find a
way to connect my professionalworld with my personal world.
But there are a lot of negativefeelings wrapped up in my
personal world, but also that'swhy I'm so passionate about, you
know, being a support to othersprofessionally.
(51:46):
So it's, it's scary, but it'sit also does feel, you know,
good to be able to share and,especially with the goal in mind
that you know, if I can find away to professionally support
other adoptees and make safespaces for other adoptees to
(52:07):
share stories that that might beuncomfortable or there might be
healing that's needed, needed,or even adoptees that are still
children or teenagers that youknow they need support from
their parents or from othersthat understand their
experiences in a way that mostof their you know community
(52:31):
don't of their, you know,community don't, absolutely,
absolutely yes.
Speaker 2 (52:43):
So again, we want to thank you for a trusting us to
come on our podcast and andshare your story and share your
truths.
And, I'll be honest, I want tomake sure that we stay connected
because I have a passion aswell to be in that professional
space, to be able to helpindividuals.
I always share when I doprofessional developments in the
school system.
I know I have a bias forstudents that are adopted or
(53:04):
they have gone through fostercare because of my experience
and my journey and I try andencourage people to understand
and know what your bias is.
We all have them, but we alwaysdon't want to address why we
have them.
So, just like you, I want tofind that pocket to be able to
really make an impact or makeanother impact and difference in
(53:25):
this field, because I feel likeit's a taboo field, like nobody
wants to talk about it inpublic.
But we're here.
You know, you remember theLorax movie.
We're here.
We're here.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
Right yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:38):
Yeah, it's just amazing.
Thank you again.
I can't thank you enough.
Speaker 1 (53:45):
And I I mean when I, when I was researching I was
looking for BCBA and adoptionlike how can I bring these two
together?
And your name popped up and Isaw that you guys had just
started this podcast.
I was so excited.
I think I sent two pages of afirst email.
I was so excited.
Speaker 2 (54:05):
Lisa was so excited.
She said, john, but she didn'ttell me that you were at BCBA.
She said someone reached outand here's a story and when I
read it I said wait, wait, waita minute.
She's a, she's a mafia.
I had a whole differentexcitement because, again, we're
limited, so it's not a lot ofus.
But now you take the adoptionand the ABA and you know how do
(54:27):
we view that, what's ourcommonalities?
Speaker 3 (54:30):
Absolutely.
This has been awesome.
We really appreciate you takingthe time out of your busy day
just to spend some time with usand share your story.
Speaker 1 (54:40):
Absolutely, and I appreciate you both as well.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (54:44):
No problem.
Speaker 1 (54:45):
Thank you, yep.
Speaker 2 (54:47):
So everybody, and I'm gonna ask you, because this is
how we end it I'm John, I'm Lisa, I'm Sarah and we are adopted
Adoptees.
Thank you, I'm going to beusing the whole first family
thing I've never.
I hadn't heard of that, but Iwill be using it.
Speaker 3 (55:07):
Yeah, yes, I love it.
Speaker 2 (55:09):
It really helped us tonight.
Speaker 3 (55:10):
Yes, thank you, sarah .
Thank you, sarah have a greatone.
Speaker 2 (55:25):
Thank you for listening to the so I'm Adopted
podcast.
We hope that this wasinformative and educational.
You can follow us on Instagramand Facebook at so I'm Adopted.
Also, subscribe to our YouTubechannel, so I'm Adopted.
And again, thank you forlistening and until next time,
make the choice to begin yourhealing journey.
Welcome to the so I'm Adopted podcast, where we talk
everything adoption.
This journey is not one we takealone.
Together we grapple with rawemotions that surface from
adoption stories.
We want you to be comfortableenough to heal, so sit back and
go with us on this journey as wedive deep into adoption.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
We wanted to create a space for adoption truth.
We have a common bond of beingadopted.
Our stories are very, verydifferent, absolutely.
So we wanted to have ourconversations and allow other
people to hear our conversationsand also be able to share
theirs as well.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
You know, this podcast is where we will hear
our adoption stories from otheradoptees, adoptive parents and
biological families.
We will also have input fromlicensed professionals such as
psychologists, social workers,to get a deeper understanding of
this adoption journey.
Hopefully, these stories andperspectives will give hope and
(01:21):
understanding and courage tothose who are adopted or who are
thinking about you know, beingadopted, along with the journey
of acceptance, reconciliationand maintenance of being adopted
, you know those are going to besome of the anchors that we
will highlight each time we comeon this podcast.
We want to welcome you to thesixth episode of so I'm Adopted.
(01:43):
I'm John.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
And I'm Lisa.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
And we're adopted.
So we are at our sixth episode.
It is mind blowing, I promiseyou.
Last episode we had aconversation where we talked
about foster care and we got somuch information from our guests
.
She reached out to Lisa andwanted to come on the show and
can you talk about just how inthat conversation, how she
(02:08):
reached out and what she shared?
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Yes, so she was just telling us her background, her
own journey, growing up in Ibelieve it's Ohio, and she's
also in the same profession thatyou're in.
So she wants to, you know.
No, last week the fifth episode.
Oh, the fifth, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
We're already jumping ahead.
That's how exciting thisepisode is going to be.
She's already jumping ahead.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
I'm so sorry, yes.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
The foster care, foster care.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Yes, I am so sorry, it's okay, forgive me A little.
This real, this is real.
Allison Davidson.
Yes, she's a friend of mine, avery good friend of mine, and
she was a wealth of knowledgefor us.
So once I found out what herprofession was, I was like, oh,
(02:55):
she's perfect.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
She's got to jump on.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Yes, perfect, and she was more than happy to come on
and share her expertise inregards to the foster care
system and all the intricaciesthat it entails.
Got it, got it.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
So definitely check that one out.
Remember to catch us on socialmedia.
We have Instagram, we have onFacebook, we have email, so
please reach out.
We have a new segment that wewant to start off with and we're
going to just talk about famousindividuals that were adopted.
But when I began to do someresearch, one of the first names
(03:32):
that came up it wasn'tnecessarily the big shock that
he was adopted, but theintricate pieces of it surprised
me, and it was Nelson Mandela.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Really.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
So Nelson Mandela, his father passed away when he
was now this is where the datais a little sketchy.
It said some said nine, somesaid twelve, uh, but once his
father passed away, he was thenadopted by the leaders of the
and I'm going to make sure I sayit correctly of the um and I'm
going to mess it up, but it wasa big tribe in his, in his land,
(04:03):
and then he was adopted and helived with that family and as I
read it, I thought about moses,think about moses's story, where
he was brought in by the kingand then he carried out.
So it's very parallel to lookat these stories and I think
it's good for us to bring lightto all of the different
variations of thesenon-traditional relationships.
(04:23):
Ultimately, that's what thishas evolved to.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Yes, yeah, and I also have a famous person as well.
Okay, so you remember that show.
That's my mama Back in the day,yeah, so let's imagine you
being a little kid and youwatching that show, growing up,
mm-hmm, and fast forward 50years later.
(04:46):
Right, you find out that allthat time, that woman that was
your mama, that was a characteron that show.
So, let me, that was, that wasyour mom, not my mom, oh, okay
well another, lisa's mama okay,all right, all right, her name
is Lisa as well, and so she wasadopted when she was young.
(05:10):
Okay, her parents had passedaway, and that's when she
decided that she wanted to goahead and, you know, start
searching for her adoptivemother.
The story that she told herabout her biological mother was
that she loved her and she knewshe couldn't take care of her.
So, you know, just think aboutthat you have two mothers.
(05:32):
So she gave her a piece, in asense, that some kids were like,
well, why was you know, why didthey, you know, get rid of me,
or whatever.
She never had that sensebecause of how her adoptive
mother presented the bio mom toher.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Got it, that make sense.
Yeah, it makes lots of sense.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
So once her adoptive parents passed away, she started
you know, she's like her sonencouraged her, so we'll know,
you know, know who we are, whoour people are or whatever.
So she got some information,got the name and she googled it
Lynn Moody and she was like, ohokay, and she said wait a minute
(06:12):
watch that show.
Wait a minute you know becauseshe saw her face.
But you know, lynn Moody hasbeen in Roots, she's been in a
few other things, roots andsomething else but she knew the
face.
And one of her girlfriends saidyou know what, remember we were
(06:35):
growing up, I kept telling youyou look like her.
She said, but you know, shenever really paid any attention,
never thought about it, neverthought about it.
And so the reason why she wasshe never really paid any
attention, never thought aboutit.
And so the reason why she wasshe gave up for adoption.
Lynn gave up for adoption.
She was 18.
She was just going to school inCalifornia.
(06:55):
She met a guy one night standgot pregnant.
You know, family was, I think,from Chicago prestige, pregnant.
You know, family was, I think,from Chicago prestige.
And you know, back then, whenyou go to this away from home,
you go to the home, the high, topregnant.
So she had the baby.
And what stood out to me andthe video that I saw this was
(07:21):
when she had an interview on theTamara Hall show.
I think it was 2021.
Then again in 2022, 2023.
What stood out to me that onceshe met her for the first time,
she had that healing.
She said I was healed, and Iresonate with that, because my
mother said that she was brokentoo, and when I came back, she
(07:44):
was healed.
You know she was broken too,and when, when I came back, she
was healed.
That's awesome you know, and shesaid, even though a lot of good
things happened in my life withher, her fame and all this
stuff, her knowing that therewas a child out there that was
her, her daughter.
But you know, she pursued hercareer and everything, but she
still had that hole.
That hole was always there.
And she said she tried to findher at one point, but she still
(08:05):
had that hole.
That hole was always there.
And she said she tried to findher at one point, but because
she gave all of her rights awayin order for her to be deaf, she
couldn't.
She couldn't find anything.
So she was just amazed that now,after all this year, she never
got married, she never had anyother kids.
Then she has a daughter andthen she has a grandson.
All of this and she couldn'tbelieve that all of a sudden I
(08:30):
have a daughter and a grandson.
So for over a year she keptcalling them, not calling them
by his name, she was callingthem grandson and calling her
daughter because she neverexperienced it before, it was
all new to her.
Yeah, so that was a nice, warmand fuzzy one.
(08:50):
They live maybe 10 miles awayfrom each other in California.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Awesome.
Everything happens for a reason.
This week on our episode, wehave another individual that I'm
excited about.
I'm excited because she's haveanother individual that I'm
excited about and I'm excitedbecause she's in the field that
I'm in.
She reached out on email, shewent through LinkedIn and was
looking, and because I'm a BCBAand she's a BCBA and I'll have
her talk about the field becauseit talks about behavior and the
(09:18):
environment, so it's reallyembedded in everything we do.
So we have Sarah McFadden andwe want to let her in the room
and then, once she gets in, Iwill read her bio.
Hey, sarah.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Hey, sarah, hi.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
This is Sarah and again I want to read her bio.
I talked a little bit about it,but I want everybody to see who
I was talking about.
We are excited that you arehere today.
So Sarah is a dedicatedprofessional with over a decade
of experience in the field ofbehavior analysis.
As a board certified behavioranalyst, she specializes in
providing positive behaviormanagement, support and coaching
(09:58):
in public school settings.
Sarah is deeply committed topromoting and advocating for
trauma-informed practices andhas a passion for sharing her
knowledge in this area witheducators.
In addition to her work in thepublic school setting, sarah has
recently begun exploringavenues to extend her impact
(10:20):
through adoption-specific,trauma-informed caregiving,
training and behavior support.
I love that Sarah's personaljourney as an American domestic
adoptee has deeply influencedher professional path.
In reunion with her biologicalfamily, who she refers to as her
first family, sarah hasnavigated the complexities of
(10:43):
loss and connection, drawingstrength from her experiences to
better understand and supportothers in similar situations.
In addition to identifying as abehavior analyst and adult
adoptee, sarah is a wife and amother of two.
She finds great joy andfulfillment in her role as a
parent.
Her children have brought a newdepth of meaning to her life,
(11:08):
allowing her to experience thecloseness she has always yearned
for as an adoptee.
We're going to get into that.
That's awesome.
So, Sarah welcome.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Welcome, Sarah.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Yes, and before we start, I just want to make sure
that you know you're in thisframe with me, so we're just
going to do a little.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Can you see both of us?
I think it's just short becauseof.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Yeah, that's good.
So there you go, all right.
So, sarah, always, we alwayslike to start off with this main
question when did you?
Speaker 1 (11:49):
So I don't really remember a time that I didn't
know.
I've just always grown up beingtold that.
You know, that's a part of mystory.
When I was two and a half three, my parents were considering
adoption of a child in fostercare who's in foster care with
(12:13):
their friends and although thatdidn't work out as we were, they
were going through that process.
They were.
They explained it to me and Iremember from a young age
reading a book called how youWere Born and it had pictures of
a developing fetus or baby andand then it also described
(12:36):
childbirth and how babies cameto be.
And when we would read it theywould include my story and say
you know, you have a mother thatgave birth to you in this way.
But you came to us, her arriveand I knew that she was coming
and I remember just laying inthe floor waiting for her to get
(13:09):
there and she arrived in alimousine, which was exciting
because I don't think I had everseen anything like that at you
know, four um, wow.
(13:31):
So yeah, it was so.
It was so normalized um that bythe time it started becoming a
question in school you know theicebreaker of tell us something
that's unique about you.
I would use that that I'madopted as my unique thing and I
get all these questions and Ididn't understand why it wasn't
normal for everyone else becauseit had been so normalized for
me.
So I just I had always known,and it was just always a part of
(13:55):
the story that my parents toldme Awesome.
So outside of you and yoursister, so it was just the two
of you no, so my um youngersister was adopted into our
family when I was four and thenmy parent, my adoptive parents,
(14:16):
uh, had my they by they um, hada natural born son, my younger
brother, when I was seven.
So I have a younger brother anda younger sister in my adoptive
family.
So that was also a uniquedynamic of our family, just
having both adoption andbiological children.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
So speak to that a little bit.
Can you do a little more of thedynamics of that?
So having a birth child andthen two adoptive children, how
was that?
Was it different, or did theytreat everybody was pretty much
the same.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, so I think there's a lot of different
dynamics that are at play, butit there was a very clear
difference and I think a lot ofit had to do.
I didn't understand it at thetime but now, as a mother, I
(15:19):
understand it.
I just I think that there's abonding that happens to a mother
when she grows a baby, andthere's a lot of oxytocin and
and things that happen that justcreate this natural bonding,
especially if you'rebreastfeeding.
Um, I don't, I don't know whatthe research says about that,
(15:40):
but I don't think that it is asstrong with an adopted child.
Um, at least it did not seem tobe.
I just there was like a naturalrhythm to when my, my brother,
was born and their relationshipand and there was there was a
(16:02):
difference absolutely and in ina lot of regards.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
And how old were you when he was born?
Speaker 1 (16:09):
I was seven.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
So, seven, you were able to recognize a shift and
you were aware of theenvironment changing.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
I don't know that.
I would say that I recognizedit at seven for what it was.
I recognized it at seven forwhat it was.
(16:41):
I think that at seven there wasa lot going on.
Also, my sister, my, you know,we all came of age, um, and as
my brother, uh, you know, as atoddler, he was my mother's
shadow, just always there, um,very similar in personality to
to her and my father, and thathe was a bit more calm and
(17:03):
subdued and would entertainhimself for hours and just very
compliant, just very differentbut also very alike to them as I
(17:31):
got older and became moreself-reflective, and then also
reflective of everything aroundme.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
I noticed that there were definitely differences.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
How do you feel about that?
I don't know that.
I had a specific feeling that Ialways attached throughout my
life with mental health and, youknow, coming of age and going
(18:10):
through adolescence.
I think there were times that Iwas angry.
I think there were times that Iwas sad.
There were times where it madesense that, you know, that's the
way that it was, especially asI became a mother.
So I think it's so complex toreally put a single feeling on
(18:35):
it.
There was definitely times ofresentment and there's probably
some still lingering resentmentthere, um for sure, and I think
my sister also, um shares thatsame feeling.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Okay, did your sister go into the mental health field
as well?
Speaker 1 (18:58):
no, she didn't.
I try not to tell her story forher, but yeah, that's fine,
absolutely.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
I was just curious because a lot of times, those of
us that have gone through theadoption journey, we find
ourselves indirectly being inthat support place.
So that's why I was asking.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Yeah, absolutely For me, and I think we both had
different stories too.
Um, whereas my parents, uh, ouradoptive parents, told me the
story that my mother wanted tokeep me, but she couldn't, they
didn't have that same story,they didn't have a lot of
background knowledge about heror her um first family, so they,
(19:40):
they didn't have that samestory to tell her and they
didn't.
I don't think that they.
I mean, I now know that theydidn't tell me, that they didn't
just make up that story and sothey didn't just make up one for
her.
They just didn't have anyinformation for her.
And so I think that we bothprocess our adoptions
(20:00):
differently, in part because ofthat.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Understood.
I love the fact that you usefirst family.
It was in your bio and then youjust said it again.
Where did that come from?
Speaker 1 (20:13):
So it's pretty common in the adoption community, but
it, you know, biological placesso much distance and just makes
it feel mechanical and it's itdoesn't really honor the fact
that they are your family andthey were your first family.
They were the family thatbrought you into this world and
(20:36):
that's an important fact for me,for my story, of my story.
I know that not every adopteeuses that language, but it's
important for me to just honorthem as my first family.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
I love that I know and, again, from our standpoint,
we don't know the language andthe common terms, so I feel like
an outsider with regards tojust the knowledge.
That's why this podcast is soimportant, because you have
those of us who again think thatour journey is so unique that
it's only us.
But there's so much informationthat is out there Like I didn't
(21:14):
know about an adopteeconference that takes place.
There are lots of supports, soit's just a wealth of
information and hopefully we canbegin to just be that resource
to help people get theinformation.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Yes, yeah, a whole community that we, as adoptees,
were not aware of not aware andI didn't know that there is a
conference.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
I know that there's a lot of different podcasts and
meetings and groups online andin person.
Yeah there, there's a lot outthere.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
So I definitely will have to share that conference
information.
We'll send it to you in email.
So any other questions aboutthe younger years and stuff
before we jump, because I'mexcited about the ABA part of it
and how it impacts it.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Oh, you go right ahead because.
I saw my phone and I don't knowmy questions.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
That's fine, no problem.
So how do you think you beingadopted impacts your approach to
working with clients andparents?
Speaker 1 (22:22):
So that's a pretty complex question and I feel like
I'm still starting or stillprocessing and sorting things
out.
I think I'm.
I've always had a very specialplace in my heart for kids who
(22:42):
struggle and at a young age mysister had behavioral issues and
through the dynamics of ourfamily, I would often feel like
I had to fix the situation andfigure out how to remedy it, and
(23:03):
I think a lot of it wasprobably escape from the
aversiveness that was herbehavior and the fighting and
the screaming that surroundedour home and I think I was
always trying to understandmyself, understand her, and so
that's kind of, I think, how Igot into it.
(23:25):
But I think it affects mypractice in that I am very
sensitive towards making surethat I'm trauma informed and
that I use trauma informedpractices and I don't think that
trauma, I assume trauma.
I don't ever wait to hear thatthey've been traumatized or that
(23:46):
they have trauma or PTSD or adiagnosis.
I just assume it with everyonebecause really we've all
experienced traumatic events inour lives and it's just the
human experience and we allprocess those events differently
and some of those events reallyimpact us and our ability to
(24:08):
move on normally.
That's an air quotes foranybody who can't see the video,
but it just it impacts all ofus and so you know our field
doesn't have the greatestreputation for being sensitive
(24:29):
to our clients.
Our field has a pretty badreputation and there's a lot of
trauma that has been caused.
If you listen to autisticvoices, there's a lot of trauma
that has been caused by ourfield and using forced
compliance and punitive things,because we know how to
manipulate behavior.
(24:49):
You know we use the science tomanipulate behavior and whether
or not it's with good intent orbad intent or neutral intent, it
still impacts the people thatwe and our clients and our
students and the people that wewe serve.
So for me, I think adoptionjust impacts my sensitivity
(25:13):
towards that.
To always try to ensure thatI'm not just using good intent
but I'm also paying attention tothe client, to recognize if
what I'm doing is a positiveexperience or a punishing
experience.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Awesome.
I love the fact that you saidwe all go through trauma and I
think we have to use thatlanguage because a lot of times
we go through traumaticexperiences and we just brush it
under the rug.
And I think for our generation,in this season, now we have the
language to really understandand the research to call things
what they were.
Prior to, they really didn'tunderstand what trauma was.
(25:55):
It was, oh, that's just life orthat's just this.
Well, there are so many lastingimpacts of that.
So I want to ask now because inyour body we also learned that
you were a parent how do youthink your adoption journey and
you went into it a little bit,where you talked about you had
to be the protector and fixerhow do you think being adopted
(26:17):
impacts your parenting lens?
Speaker 1 (26:20):
So I think, in pretty unexpected ways, I think that I
didn't realize that I hadlasting trauma until I had kids.
I don't think I was effect.
I was, um, experiencing theextent of my past, the trauma
(26:48):
that I've, you know, experiencedfrom adoption until I had kids,
because as a baby, when you'rean infant, I was adopted as an
infant.
So I don't remember beingrelinquished, I don't remember,
um my first mother being amother to me as a child or baby.
(27:10):
So I think that and there'sresearch that shows that we have
different types of memory.
So there's implicit memory,which are our feelings and our
emotions, and there's explicitmemory, which are stored in a
(27:31):
verbal way where we can retellthose memories.
And because I was adopted at apre-verbal age, I didn't have
those verbal memories.
But I think that I had a lot ofimplicit memories.
I had a lot of emotionalflooding that happened and I
couldn't explain it and and alot of anxiety and and it even
(27:54):
still surfaces in differenttimes.
Like I'm great at beingnon-reactive at work
professionally, and so I thoughtI was well-equipped to be a
parent and I know that some ofthat is just every parent's
experience but, um, it's beenreally, really tough in a way
that I never, ever imagined thatit would be Like not just what
(28:22):
I would say normal frustration,but it's been emotionally tough.
Tough, I think, to be to becomea parent, um, but I also think
that I appreciate being a parentbecause it's a connection that
(28:42):
I always longed for, that Ididn't have, um, and I I always
wanted you know, like even justsimply simply seeing someone
that looks like me in myeveryday life.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Right, yes.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Uh, you know, I don't other than, uh, you know, our
height, stature, my adoptive momand I don't really resemble
each other.
Mom and I don't really resembleeach other, and so I mean that
alone just I'll catch my kidsmaking facial expressions and it
, you know, kind of catches youoff guard here and there.
(29:26):
Did you always want kids.
When you were growing up, didyou say I want to have kids, I
want to have a house full ofkids, or what.
So I played with dolls from avery, very young age and I
remember I think it was secondor third grade we had to draw a
picture of what we wanted to bewhen we grew up, and I drew a
house with myself and kids.
And what I wanted to be when Igrew up was a mom.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Go ahead.
I've just always, I've alwayswanted to be a mom.
So I've just always, I'vealways wanted to be a mom.
I've always wanted to toexperience that.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
So you had mentioned always wanting to be a mom, a
relationship that you reallydidn't have.
Can you speak to that?
As far as your relationshipwith your adoptive mom, how did
that look?
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah.
So, again, it's complex and Iget a little anxious talking
about it because I know thatpeople who are adopted will say
I've talked to enough adopteesthat they get it, but it's
something that very rarely I'vetalked to a non-adoptee and
(30:33):
they've gotten it.
You just kind of know that thatconnection isn't isn't what it.
You know what it could be, thatthere's something lacking there
.
I I think that that, for me,was grounded in in the
relationship that my parents hadwith my brother, um, and that
(30:56):
they didn't have with my sister.
I, um, there's just a closenessthat is hard for me and, um, I
I've done some um professionaldevelopment, more on a personal
level, about differentattachment styles, and I'd say
that I'm I have a an avoidantattachment style.
(31:21):
Relationships are really hardfor me and that being close and
being vulnerable is really hardfor me.
It's it's hard for me toconnect and let other people in,
and and I never really feltlike I had an authentic, close,
genuine relationship with myparents in a way that I saw all
(31:44):
of my friends havingrelationships with their parents
.
So I think it was a lot of thatenvironmental.
I was very, I was always veryself-aware, um, and I was always
very aware of relationships.
It was, it was something thatinterests me so much, and I
think that that is also why Iwas so interested in my sister
and and went into the field thatI did go in.
(32:05):
Um, I was just always sofascinated by relationships and
I think it was because I alwaysknew that mine seemed different
and I didn't know why, and Iwanted to explain it.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
Interesting Wow.
Yeah that's wow.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Even being adoptees, we listening to your story and I
think this is why it's power inour stories, because it's so
many like check the boxes that Ican relate to, but then there
are some things that I'm like,hmm, never thought about it that
way.
So I just think that this, thispool of adoptees, has the
potential to really just helpand heal and encourage one
(32:43):
another.
So I want to ask this questionDo you think and I think I know
the answer, because in listeningto what you have said
previously do you think thatthere's a level of trauma in all
adoptee stories and journeys?
Speaker 1 (32:59):
So this, what this?
I have, I think, a couple ofdifferent answers for that, or
maybe a couple parts of ananswer for that.
I have a lot of trauma-informedcare, training and professional
development.
So when I think of trauma,there's a couple different
(33:23):
things that I think about, whichare events that we experience
that are, by their nature,traumatic.
A car accident is traumatic.
Seeing somebody get assaultedis traumatic.
There are different events thatcan be perceived as traumatic,
(33:45):
but we also all experience andperceive and process those
events differently.
And so there may be one personthat sees a car accident and
maybe it's a really bad caraccident.
There's two witnesses One seesit from and they go home and
(34:06):
they just can't get over it homeand they just can't get over it
and they have to seek outcounseling because they can't
keep like.
They keep reliving that visualin their head over and over and
over again.
There might be another witnesswho goes home, tells their
partner hey, you wouldn'tbelieve this accident that I saw
.
And then you know, when theyrecall it later, there's no
emotional reaction that comes up, it was just something that
(34:29):
happened to them.
So we all process these eventsdifferently.
And then there's repeatedtrauma, so you might call it
small T trauma.
There are these events that aretraumatic events and they
happen over and over and overagain and so that over and over
and over again can pile up.
And then you have your big Ttrauma, which are like very
(34:53):
extreme traumatic events, youknow assault, rape, abuse, those
things that.
But we all still process andexperience them different.
So that's the trauma piece.
And when you talk about adoption, even with infant adoption, you
(35:14):
take an infant that's been,that has grown, literally come
to life for nine months in abody, and they hear the voices
and they have the smells of thatmother.
They learn the rhythm of thegait of that mother, they hear
the heartbeat of that mother.
They hear the rhythm of thegait of that mother.
They hear the heartbeat of thatmother.
They hear the voices of thepeople that that mother
(35:36):
surrounds themselves with, andthat's what that infant knows.
Whether they have language toform, to process around it,
that's what that infant knows.
And we all have a survivalinstinct and when you are born
your brain is only developedsuch that your survival instinct
is really what drives you.
(35:57):
So babies cry and they makedifferent sounds and they root
for their mother's breast andit's all just survival based and
it's all just survival based.
And so the baby comes outknowing the mother's voice and
knowing that safety and security, and that's how they're going
(36:18):
to survive, and that's howthey're going to get their food,
and that's how you know, that'swhat they've known.
(36:38):
And to suddenly not have thatanymore, and that's a traumatic
event.
That is a child no longerhearing the safety and the
familiarity that it's only everknown and then as that child you
know a lot of children are withtheir first family for some
amount of time beforerelinquishment.
You know you talked aboutfoster care last week.
Some of those kids might havebeen quite old before they
entered the foster care systemand that builds that history of
(37:06):
where they can access safety andsecurity and to just abruptly
remove that, that's a trauma.
And so I think that all adopteesexperience a traumatic event.
But I also think that adopteesexperience and process that
traumatic event differently.
(37:26):
So in the community of adopteesthere are some adoptees who say
that they've had a wonderfulexperience, they're very
grateful for being adopted andthey had really wonderful
adoptive parents, and they don'tunderstand the other people
that are saying you know, I haveall this trauma because there
(37:47):
is another side that is sayingI've incurred all this trauma
and so I think it's a spectrumand I think, just like most
things we all, there is aspectrum to it and we process
things differently.
That also can influence howthat trauma and how that
(38:13):
traumatic event impacts whetheror not that person is then
traumatized or perceives it as atraumatization.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Awesome, I love your answer.
That's awesome.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
That was good.
Yes, so just switching gearsjust a little bit.
What's your currentrelationship?
Whoa, before I ask thatquestion, did you ever try to
seek out your first family?
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Yeah, so when I turned 18, so I had always known
that I was adopted and myparents actually had adopted
adoption records from myadoption out photocopied files,
probably around the time that Ineeded my birth certificate,
(39:15):
because I had my original birthcertificate within those files,
just with like white out over myfirst mom's name and any
identifiable information was wascrossed out so that I could not
see.
It.
Was crossed out so that I couldnot see it, but we did.
There was, I think, john.
(39:35):
You had a similar scenariowhere there was a little bit of
a name.
It was only her first name, butwe we thought that her name was
Margaret and it was her name'sMargaret, or her name was
Margaret, but she went by Margo.
Okay, so when I turned 18, Iwas adopted through a private
agency and my parents had keptin contact with the lawyer and
(40:00):
he had always said, you know, onthe on her 18th birthday, if
you're comfortable and she wantsto, like, I will help you guys
find the, find her first family,or every.
They all refer to itbiologically.
So he did some searching andactually found my family through
(40:21):
my older brother.
My first mom had a son who shehad raised the older half
brother, so she had had him, wasraising him, and when she gave
me up for adoption and I I hadactually known this I found out
they knew that I had an olderbrother and I was made aware of
it.
Oh, okay, yes, lee, so itwasn't a surprise to me, but
(40:46):
that's how they, my lawyer, wasable to find my first family was
through him, because he, he's acomputer nerd, so he was online
and she wasn't, and he was.
My lawyer was able to find himand I talked to her on my 18th
birthday.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Wow, how was that?
How was that?
Speaker 1 (41:09):
It was not what I expected, I think.
You know, I think as adoptees,especially if you know that
you're adopted.
Growing up, because some yeah,some don't, and and I know, lisa
, you share that story butgrowing up knowing that you're
(41:35):
adopted, there's a lot offantastical ideas that flow
through.
And you know Alanis MorissetteI was convinced that she was my
mother because I loved her musicand I cannot give a rhyme or
reason other than we both haddark hair.
I cannot give a rhyme or reasonother than we both had dark hair
.
It's pretty common, I think,for adoptees to see famous
(42:00):
people and think that you knowwhat if?
And I knew that they didn'tlive around.
You know, live near.
I knew that I was born inLouisiana, so I didn't have the
same experience of lookingaround everywhere I went and
thinking maybe I was related tothem, but I would all the time
(42:21):
think that somebody on TV, longstory short.
I was expecting all of thesefantasies and then, when I
talked to my, my biological mom,it was a reality.
And there was also this partwhere she remembered being
(42:45):
pregnant with me and having meand had always thought about me.
She named me, Hope, and hadwritten my name on my birthday
in every calendar that she hadever owned.
So we had this, you know,emotional connection that she
(43:06):
felt for me, but I didn't.
I didn't share that because shewas a stranger to me and I had
grown up with parents and afamily and so I didn't
understand she.
I think it was like our secondor third time that we talked and
(43:27):
she told me that she loved meand I just was not not ready for
that.
So yeah, it was complex.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
Wow.
So when she said that she lovedyou, I know how I felt when I
heard that for the first time.
It was because I was like, well, I don't know you, I don't know
you, so how can you love me?
But I got it.
But I was, I mean, my.
My adoptive mother loved me.
(44:01):
She showered me in all thesethings.
Do you think I know how I felt?
But do you think therelationship that you had with
your adoptive mother made youfeel that way?
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Yeah, but in a different way.
So it was more of like a guilttrip, but a covert one, so it
was.
I just remember my adoptive momsaying don't forget who your
real mother is, who raised you,don't go replacing me.
(44:37):
And to me there was a lot ofcomplexity in that, because I
never felt especially close toher or especially seen by her or
loved in the way that I feltlike I needed to be loved by her
.
But she did provide for me andshe did care for me and I had,
um, you know, I I was raisedwith privilege, whereas I
(44:59):
wouldn't have been had I grownup with my biological mother and
and so there's all this complex, weird pressure to feel
grateful and thankful, um, andcomplex feelings around that.
And then the person that wassupposed to be there or and I
(45:19):
don't think I processed like, Idon't think I had the words for
it, but I think I felt it.
You know, the connection that Ihad always longed for, that
person that I had always longedfor, was telling me that they
love me, but they weren't therewhen I needed those connections.
They weren't there to offerthat, and they were now telling
(45:40):
me they were now offering it.
But so you know.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
And you didn't know what that looked like because
you didn't have that.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
Yeah, so there was some and I think at the time I
thought of it as well.
I have my, I had a family thatwas good to me, and I don't know
you, but I think there was alot of under the surface things
(46:08):
that I'm now starting tounderstand and putting a
language to that.
I didn't understand why I hademotions that I had when I first
met her.
Speaker 3 (46:19):
I can understand that .
Speaker 2 (46:21):
So what's your?
Speaker 3 (46:22):
relationship with, with your adoptive family and
your first family today.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
So my Margo, my first mother, uh, and I I did like
later in life meet my firstfather and they both um.
So Margo passed away about 10years after we met, um, and then
(46:52):
my first father passed awayabout six years ago, and it was
about two years after we had met, and so I think it was.
But so obviously you know thathappened.
But I had a half brother, amaternal half brother and a
(47:15):
paternal half brother, and thenI'm I've also gotten to know my,
my mother's brother and sisterquite well and I have cousins,
and so I met all of them when Iwas 18.
And I quickly developed areally close relationship with
my older brother, her son and myaunt.
(47:36):
My first aunt has come to visitme with my cousin and her
husband and my uncle my uncleand my aunt.
I should say my uncle's gonna belike, well, I came too, but
they both came and visited me,and so it's.
But they live in Florida andI'm in Ohio, so there's a long
(47:58):
distance relationship piece toit that has made it really hard
to build that connection in away that is as close as maybe I
would have hoped and theymight've hoped for, um, and then
I I'm not, as I I met my firstfather later in life and as well
(48:18):
as that brother, so it I don'tknow much about that side of the
family.
I did meet them in person, butwe aren't as close.
And as for my adoptive family,it's it's, it's complex.
I think again, as a parent, I'mrealizing all of these things
(48:45):
that I didn't know were there.
And in addition to that, we'vemoved back in with them for the
time being, as my husband and Isort through some finances to be
able to purchase a house.
So we're and I think thatthere's a lot in childhood that
(49:07):
we paint with a rainbow picturethat maybe we don't remember,
you know, and it's probably agood thing, it's probably our,
our minds, protecting us fromthings that are unnecessary,
unnecessary to really ruminateover, or um, but moving back in
(49:28):
has reminded me, or or reawakenthose memories that weren't so
pleasant and, um, like, theparenting style is very
different.
So then there's also this likelittle bit of a power struggle
of like wanting the autonomy toparent the way that I parent,
(49:48):
and also feeling reallytriggered by the way that they
parent, and so it's complex.
I would say I don't really knowLike I feel, like that's a
whole other conversation.
Speaker 3 (50:08):
Part two for you.
Speaker 2 (50:10):
So I want to give space to you because if anyone
is in the area that you know hasquestions or from a
professional standpoint, do youmind sharing your information so
that they can reach out to youin that?
Speaker 1 (50:25):
area.
The best contact is probably myemail, and it's Sarah McFadden,
so S-A-R-A-H-M-C-F-A-D-D-E-Ndot B-C-B-A at gmailcom.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
So I want to ask this question being able to share
your story, finding this podcast, finding this, what is your
thought or how does it make youfeel with this opportunity of
being able to share your storyhere with us this evening?
Speaker 1 (51:01):
I was really excited yesterday and then today I was
like, oh shit, like sorry it was.
You know it's, it's a lot to,and I've I've shared it with
other adoptees in a very uh, youknow small group or online in a
(51:23):
safe space.
Um, this is different and I'malso trying to kind of find a
way to connect my professionalworld with my personal world.
But there are a lot of negativefeelings wrapped up in my
personal world, but also that'swhy I'm so passionate about, you
know, being a support to othersprofessionally.
(51:46):
So it's, it's scary, but it'sit also does feel, you know,
good to be able to share and,especially with the goal in mind
that you know, if I can find away to professionally support
other adoptees and make safespaces for other adoptees to
(52:07):
share stories that that might beuncomfortable or there might be
healing that's needed, needed,or even adoptees that are still
children or teenagers that youknow they need support from
their parents or from othersthat understand their
experiences in a way that mostof their you know community
(52:31):
don't of their, you know,community don't, absolutely,
absolutely yes.
Speaker 2 (52:43):
So again, we want to thank you for a trusting us to
come on our podcast and andshare your story and share your
truths.
And, I'll be honest, I want tomake sure that we stay connected
because I have a passion aswell to be in that professional
space, to be able to helpindividuals.
I always share when I doprofessional developments in the
school system.
I know I have a bias forstudents that are adopted or
(53:04):
they have gone through fostercare because of my experience
and my journey and I try andencourage people to understand
and know what your bias is.
We all have them, but we alwaysdon't want to address why we
have them.
So, just like you, I want tofind that pocket to be able to
really make an impact or makeanother impact and difference in
(53:25):
this field, because I feel likeit's a taboo field, like nobody
wants to talk about it inpublic.
But we're here.
You know, you remember theLorax movie.
We're here.
We're here.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
Right yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:38):
Yeah, it's just amazing.
Thank you again.
I can't thank you enough.
Speaker 1 (53:45):
And I I mean when I, when I was researching I was
looking for BCBA and adoptionlike how can I bring these two
together?
And your name popped up and Isaw that you guys had just
started this podcast.
I was so excited.
I think I sent two pages of afirst email.
I was so excited.
Speaker 2 (54:05):
Lisa was so excited.
She said, john, but she didn'ttell me that you were at BCBA.
She said someone reached outand here's a story and when I
read it I said wait, wait, waita minute.
She's a, she's a mafia.
I had a whole differentexcitement because, again, we're
limited, so it's not a lot ofus.
But now you take the adoptionand the ABA and you know how do
(54:27):
we view that, what's ourcommonalities?
Speaker 3 (54:30):
Absolutely.
This has been awesome.
We really appreciate you takingthe time out of your busy day
just to spend some time with usand share your story.
Speaker 1 (54:40):
Absolutely, and I appreciate you both as well.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (54:44):
No problem.
Speaker 1 (54:45):
Thank you, yep.
Speaker 2 (54:47):
So everybody, and I'm gonna ask you, because this is
how we end it I'm John, I'm Lisa, I'm Sarah and we are adopted
Adoptees.
Thank you, I'm going to beusing the whole first family
thing I've never.
I hadn't heard of that, but Iwill be using it.
Speaker 3 (55:07):
Yeah, yes, I love it.
Speaker 2 (55:09):
It really helped us tonight.
Speaker 3 (55:10):
Yes, thank you, sarah .
Thank you, sarah have a greatone.
Speaker 2 (55:25):
Thank you for listening to the so I'm Adopted
podcast.
We hope that this wasinformative and educational.
You can follow us on Instagramand Facebook at so I'm Adopted.
Also, subscribe to our YouTubechannel, so I'm Adopted.
And again, thank you forlistening and until next time,
make the choice to begin yourhealing journey.
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