May 1, 2025 • 39 mins
What if I told you that Christianity is growing faster globally today than at any point in history? While many American Christians see a church in decline, the reality beyond our borders tells a dramatically different story.
In this eye-opening conversation with Blake McDaniel, a veteran mission mobilizer with the Navigators, we unpack striking statistics that reveal God's extraordinary work in our lifetime. Blake shares how the percentage of evangelical Christians worldwide has exploded from just 3% at World War II to 12% today—with the growth curve now pointing straight up. Places like Nepal have seen Christian communities grow from nearly non-existent to hundreds of thousands of believers in just three decades.
Yet this growth isn't evenly distributed. Using Jesus' parable of yeast in dough, Blake explains how the gospel remains concentrated in certain regions while 40% of the world has virtually no access. The regions containing most of the world's Hindus, Buddhists, and Muslims receive only a tiny fraction of our missionary resources.
Drawing a fascinating parallel between Coca-Cola's global marketing strategy and Christian missions, Blake challenges us to think strategically about resource allocation. If a beverage company can achieve global market penetration in 150 years, what's taking the church 2,000 years to accomplish the same with the gospel?
Blake's personal journey from systems analyst to missions mobilizer inspires us to maintain open hands before God. When initially approached about overseas service, his immediate "no" eventually transformed into a different "yes" that has led to hundreds of missionaries being sent where he himself couldn't go.
Join us for this thought-provoking discussion that will transform how you see God's work in the world today and challenge you to find your unique role in His global mission. Whether you're called to go, mobilize, or support in other ways, there's a place for everyone in this extraordinary global movement.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chad Mason (00:01):
Hey everybody, thank you so much for joining us
today on FBC Missions.
So that Podcast.
Today I have a great friend andguest.
His name is Blake McDaniel.
He works with Navigators andwe're going to talk about how
God is using us to makedisciples.
Hope you enjoy.
Welcome to FBC Missions.
So that Podcast.
(00:22):
This is an encouraging place tohear how God is working in and
around us.
Hey everybody, so glad thatyou've joined us today.
(00:49):
Uh, we've got another fun guest, One of our perspectives
instructors.
His name is Blake McDaniel.
Hey Blake, how are you, sir?
Blake McDaniel (00:56):
Doing great.
I appreciate the chance to bewith you today, chad man, I'm so
glad that you're here.
Chad Mason (01:01):
I was trying to think back on how long we've
been friends, but it's been along time.
Blake McDaniel (01:06):
Yeah, I'm not real good on timelines, but I
remember that in a previous lifeyou were the missions pastor at
a church down in Beaumont andyou brought me down as an
instructor there, and sowhenever that was I'm guessing
what maybe 10 or 12 years ago.
Chad Mason (01:23):
It had to be 2012, 2013.
So, yeah, it's a long time ago.
Yeah, it might have beenearlier.
So my daughter was born in 2010.
That's why we were in Beaumont.
We came out of Mexico, so itmight have been 2011.
It was the year that weprobably had that first
perspectives class in Beaumont.
(01:43):
Yeah, the years are ticking off.
It's 14 years, man.
We've been friends for a longtime.
Blake, you look the same, maybea little bit more white in your
hair, but you know, you've notaged at all.
Blake McDaniel (01:56):
Well, you can't tell that on a podcast.
You're being very kind.
Chad Mason (01:59):
Well, nobody knows.
I mean, you could look likeBrad Pitt in here.
Nobody really knows but uh that, uh, you're from Austin, so the
Texas Hill Country has beenkind to you.
You look great.
So, uh, tell us a little aboutyour family, about how you got
to Central Texas, how longyou've been there.
Blake McDaniel (02:17):
Tell us a little about yourself, blake yeah, I
am a long-term Central Texasperson.
I wasn't born and raised here,but I moved to Austin in 1972 to
attend UT and I've been thereever since so over 50 years now
and, like a lot of folks that doundergrad or grad work at UT,
(02:37):
just fell in love with the cityand stayed on.
Chad Mason (02:40):
Well, you know, in the Hill Country, especially
this part of the Hill Country,there's a lot of purple people.
You know those Aggie fans and Ithink you might be the first
Longhorn fan, longhorn graduatethat I've had on my podcast, and
I have been a long-termlifelong Longhorn fan.
So I just want to welcome you,blake.
(03:00):
It's a special greeting for youtoday.
Blake McDaniel (03:02):
Well, you're welcome.
I did undergrad, I did gradschool and I actually worked at
UT for 15 years.
Oh gosh, so my blood is veryorange.
But I've got a daughter.
That guess where she went toschool.
Chad Mason (03:15):
I don't know, it has to be Aggieland for us to have
this conversation.
Blake McDaniel (03:19):
It is.
She went to the evil empire.
Chad Mason (03:21):
The evil empire.
You know, jeff Lewis, he washere a few weeks ago and he's a
Tennessee guy.
You know I always joke with himand say that that's the flaming
orange school rather than theburnt orange school.
And he says that you take thatbeautiful, bright orange and you
bake it in the sun for too longand then you get the Texas
orange.
And I thought that's a greatway of saying that, jeff.
(03:44):
So well, we're so glad thatyou're with us today.
Blake, you've been doing reallymission mobilization for quite
a while, definitely the 14 yearswe've been friends.
But tell me how you got into it.
So you were working you said 15years for the University of
(04:05):
Texas.
How did you go from full-timecareer at the university to
moving into really missionsmobilization, disciple making,
which has, I think, been yourlonger career?
Blake McDaniel (04:15):
Yeah, great question.
In middle age I was working asa systems analyst at UT Austin
and was involved with the churchthat I'm still involved with
today, hill Country Bible Churchin Northwest Austin, and I was
invited by our senior pastor tolead the global outreach effort
(04:35):
there at our church.
As a layperson, we had done ashort-term missions trip to
Central Asia together where wewere doing some teaching at a
church planning training centerthere, and at the end of that
time he invited me to lead ourglobal outreach effort and I did
that for about five years.
So you know it was entirely asa layman.
(04:57):
I was working full time at UT atthe time and it whetted my
appetite and decided that Iwanted to do what you see a lot
of people doing, turning theiravocation into their vocation
and so I began looking aroundfor opportunities to do
(05:17):
mobilization-type work with adesire to operate at a little
higher level than I was leadingthe missions effort at Hill
Country and to be able, at thathigher level, to work with
dozens, if not hundreds, ofchurches doing the same kinds of
things with them that I'd hadthe chance to experience in my
(05:40):
church.
So it was really that volunteerrole in my church that first
got me involved, and I ended upgetting involved with an
organization that no longerexists called Advancing Churches
, and Commitment Did a lot ofconsulting work.
We did conferences and a numberof different things to just try
to serve as a resource topeople like yourself who are
(06:03):
leading the missions efforts inlocal churches.
Chad Mason (06:07):
Yeah, so I'm glad you brought up affectionately
ACMC.
When I first got involved inmissions leadership, which was
only back in like 2002, some ofthe first resources I was given
were ACMC resources.
I think by that time probablythe ministry had closed already.
I don't know when it closed,but by 2002, was ACMC still
(06:30):
around?
Blake McDaniel (06:31):
It was, I didn't get involved with them until
2000.
And we ended up merging with anorganization called Caleb
Project in 2007.
Both organizations werestruggling and we kind of pulled
each other underwater, and wehad a lot of intellectual
(06:53):
property rights and we had somedebt that we needed to deal with
as an organization, and so weput those things out on the
market for the highest bidder,and pioneers ended up buying all
of our intellectual propertyrights.
And then they surprised us byproviding an opportunity for
anybody that wanted to come onboard with them to do so, and so
(07:16):
most of my ACMC colleagues hadscattered to the four winds, but
there were, I think, five of uswho accepted Pioneer's offer
and came on board with them, andwe actually reconstituted ACMC
under the umbrella of.
Chad Mason (07:31):
Pioneer's.
Okay, okay, so that's awesome.
We had our first instructor forPerspectives this year was
Andrew Remke.
Blake McDaniel (07:43):
Oh yeah.
Chad Mason (07:43):
And uh, and he's you know church partnerships with
pioneers.
A great guy did a great jobspeaking for us, but he's he's
local and I've really enjoyedgetting to know Andrew, and so a
lot of his resources remind meof ACMC and, uh, that would
probably be why.
Blake McDaniel (07:59):
Well, there's a strong connection there.
Acmc survived for four yearsunder the umbrella of pioneers,
and then it was finally shutdown, and when that happened, I
joined that team that Andrew nowleads.
I was part of the churchpartnership team, and so he
ended up taking over the role ofthe fellow who was my boss when
(08:20):
I was part of that team.
Chad Mason (08:21):
That's wild.
The connections are alwaysthere, you just don't know it.
And so that's pretty neat.
He's a great guy and what agreat resource.
I didn't realize that ACMC hadthat kind of influence on
pioneers with their churchpartnerships, but it makes sense
because there's a lot ofsimilarities.
Well, some of those tools thatwere on my shelf again as early
(08:43):
for me as 2002, 2003, have beenvery valuable to me.
They still have value.
They still have a lot of greatideas on how do you form a
mission committee, how would youorganize your church to have a
heart for the nations, how doyou kind of work through a
strategy to mobilize, kind oflift and pull people from within
(09:06):
the church to have a globalvision and global heart and idea
?
And so I just love that.
That's so much a part of whoand what God has used you for in
the past and continues to now.
So tell me, where are you now?
What are you doing now If it'snot Pioneers and AMC, mc?
How is God using you as amobilizer today?
Blake McDaniel (09:30):
Well, I ended up leaving ACMC and Pioneers back
in 2013 and ended up coming backto an organization that had a
profound impact in my life as ayoung believer a group called
the Navigators.
Chad Mason (09:48):
I think people have heard about those guys.
They've been around for alittle while.
Blake McDaniel (09:51):
We have.
We're a little over 90 yearsold now and I was involved with
the Navs as an undergrad and agrad student at UT Austin back
in the 70s and they reallyshaped my view of what the
spiritual life is and what theGreat Commission is all about.
So that was my firstinvolvement with the NAVs was
(10:13):
back in the 70s.
I served as associate staffwith them for five years back in
the 90s with the church arm ofthe organization.
And now here I am, later on inlife, I'm 11 years into a
full-time role with theNavigators.
Chad Mason (10:30):
And tell me about that role.
What are you doing at this time?
Blake McDaniel (10:34):
Well, I made a move back in the fall to a
different arm of theorganization.
We're big enough where we'vegot a number of different things
that we do, and one of the armsis an arm for senior staff and
I decided when I turned 70 thatI probably qualified for that.
And so I made that jump back inSeptember, and one of the
(10:55):
things I love about it is thatthey give me a lot more latitude
with my job description.
I figure by this point in timein my life that hopefully I
figured a few things out and soI've got two basic components to
what I do with Encore, thatsenior arm of the organization.
One is an international pieceand so my focus within the
(11:19):
organization is with Eurasia,and different people use that
word in different ways, but forus Eurasia is the former Soviet.
Chad Mason (11:27):
Union.
Blake McDaniel (11:27):
Okay, and I'm involved in doing research and
doing recruiting of newmissionaries for that area of
the world.
So that's one piece of my job.
The other piece of my job islocal, so it's really fun having
both a local and a globalcomponent to what I do.
And most of the local stuff Ido is through my home church,
(11:47):
where I first got thisexperience leading missions 25
years ago.
I'm involved in disciple-makingand coaching and mentoring and
leadership and just havereengaged with our global
outreach team after nearly a20-year gap.
Yeah, and I'm doingmobilization work in the context
(12:09):
of our church.
Chad Mason (12:10):
Man, I love to hear that.
It's really exciting to see onecontinuity you know people move
around a lot today and there'sa lot of changes and to think
that you've been a part of thesame community of faith for 30
plus years, that you're servingin a place where you used to
have various roles over theyears, different ways that
you've engaged, and yet you'vehad the same continuity, the
(12:34):
same community of faith for thatlong, is a wonderful thing.
I think what you can build in32 years is different than what
you can build in two rightYou're absolutely right.
Blake McDaniel (12:43):
As a matter of fact, just to elaborate on that
a little bit, I view involvementwith local church kind of like
marriage.
There's legitimate grounds fordivorce, but it's few and far
between, and I see so manypeople today that don't hold
that view of the local church,that don't hold that view of the
(13:06):
local church, and so it's aprivilege to have been a 32-year
member of this church and tohave been with them during times
where things were going great,but to be able to persevere
through times that were a littlebit more of a struggle.
Chad Mason (13:21):
You mentioned that you were doing the NAVs in the
1970s in Austin.
I was also in Austin in the1970s.
Blake McDaniel (13:27):
Oh, is that right.
Chad Mason (13:28):
Yeah, I was born in Seton Hospital in 79.
How?
Blake McDaniel (13:31):
about that.
Chad Mason (13:33):
My kids say I'm old because I lived in the 70s.
I don't remember the 70s so Ijust thought you know you might
not.
We probably crossed paths allthe way back in 79.
Well, there's so many goodthings that God has been doing
through you, blake, but one ofthe things I get to see and have
(13:55):
been a part of is yourinstruction and perspectives,
and you've been a great lessonnine.
I think I've had you everyclass I've led.
You've come and done a lessonnine along the way, and lesson
nine is an interesting part ofthe class.
It's you mentioned today and Ialways say that it's a hinge.
You've spent the first eightweeks.
You spend five weeks talkingabout God's heart for the
nations.
You're looking at how thescriptures have facilitated his
(14:17):
passion to draw all the peoplesto himself.
Then we talk about history, howGod has been moving, of course,
through the apostles and sincethe apostles and into modern day
.
We've, you know, last week,focused on the pioneers you know
and all the kind of big namesand the big movements of the
last 300 years.
And then we get to lesson nine.
Lesson nine is kind of I call itthe report card.
(14:38):
It's where you kind of what'shappening today?
What's going on around theworld?
Where are we at If this wasGod's vision from the beginning?
Abraham on, and very clearly,the commissioning of the church.
The mission of the church is toengage the nations In 2,000
years of Christian history.
How are we doing?
And so you get to really diveinto that space.
(14:59):
You gave amazing I mean such ayou're a numbers guy, which I
think is great because it helpsyou kind of get through what can
be a tedious lesson at timeswith all the statistics, but
what comes out of it is thatthere's a movement towards the
Lord today, unlike anythingthat's happened in world history
(15:23):
.
So let's talk just a minuteabout how the Lord is moving.
In the last couple hundredyears especially, I think you
gave some statistics that that,uh, that are really interesting.
Um, but I think one of them wasin 1790, I think it was only
was it one percent or threepercent yeah, it was one percent
(15:43):
yeah, so.
So.
So talk about that just for aminute, sure um.
Blake McDaniel (15:48):
For those of you who are not history buffs, 1790
was around about the time thatthe individual who's called the
father of modern missions,william Carey, went to India and
began to work in that area ofthe world, and at that point in
time, only 1% of the world wasevangelical Christian, and so
(16:12):
there was a huge need for whathe did back over 200 years ago.
In the 200-plus years sincethen, god has done phenomenal
things, and much of that reallysince World War II a phenomenal
growth of the church.
Really since World War II, aphenomenal growth of the church.
So we go from a point where theworld is about 2% evangelical
(16:36):
Christian around the time ofWilliam Carey to World War II
where it's about 3% evangelicalChristian, with that number
doubling in the next 40 years to6% and then doubling again in
the next 30 years to 6% and thendoubling again in the next 30
years to 12%.
And what I described in theclass today as we talked about
(16:57):
this for those of you that havea math background, this is
called the exponential part ofthe growth curve, where you plot
these data points on an x-yaxis and you connect the dots
and the line at some pointbegins pointing straight up.
Well, that's happened sinceworld war ii and I think
(17:20):
probably for most followers ofjesus here in the us, they're
oblivious to that.
They have no idea that that'swhat god has been doing in the
world for the past 80 years.
Chad Mason (17:31):
Yeah, it really is remarkable.
I mean just straight from 3% to12%, a 9% increase in the last
30 years.
But the shocking thing is from6% to 12% in the last 30 years
and, like you said, the trendcontinues.
So you could see anotherdoubling in the next seven and a
(17:52):
half years.
Like it's really quiteincredible to see how the body
of Christ is exploding aroundthe world.
But you're right, we don't seeit here.
Why don't we?
Why is it not something thatwe're all aware of?
Blake McDaniel (18:06):
Well, I think one of our tendencies as
Americans is to look at theworld through an American lens
and I have to acknowledge I dothat all the time.
Well, when we do that regardingthe church, we get a distorted
picture of what's reallyhappening in the world.
Because think back on what thechurch in the US has looked like
(18:27):
since World War II, with RomanCatholics, with Orthodox, with
most folks out of a mainlinedenominational background.
They've seen fairly significantdecline in involvement since
that time.
And even with many of ourindependent churches they're
doing well if they're justholding steady, if they're
(18:48):
maintaining, yeah.
But when you look at thenumbers outside the Western
world, in Latin America, inAfrica, in Asia, it's a very
different picture.
The church is exploding inthose parts of the world and for
most of us we're just not aware.
It's not part of our frame ofreference for assessing what it
(19:12):
is that God is doing.
Chad Mason (19:15):
Yeah, it really.
It's mind-boggling.
The numbers are astronomical.
To try to think about thenumber I think you mentioned
today, there were 400,000believers in Nepal, when there
was maybe like 10 in 1990.
I can't remember what thenumber was.
It was something very small in1990.
(19:37):
And now we are 35 years pastthat and you have 400,000
believers in Nepal and you don'tsee them, you don't hear them.
I don't know enough.
I mean, I do.
I've met a Nepali believer, butnot many, and it's definitely
not something that's visible atFirst Baptist Church here in
Bernie.
But it doesn't actually matterright, what they're seeing, what
(19:58):
God's doing isn't contingent onour understanding or knowledge,
but it does seem something wecould celebrate, it's something
that we could—I think mostpeople in the West feel like the
church is in decline and theyfeel like we're losing the
battle.
You know, they feel like.
They feel like the Christianityis is passing away before our
eyes and that brings somenervousness, some tension.
(20:20):
It kind of feeds into thepolitical day as well, the just
this feeling that everythingthat we know is is passing away
in front of us.
You know, but it's really notthe truth on the global scale,
the way that the know is passingaway in front of us, you know,
but it's really not the truth.
Blake McDaniel (20:31):
On the global scale, the way the gospel is
growing among the places it hadnever been in the past, yeah, it
really is phenomenal toconsider what God has done, you
know, during the few years ofwhat our lives have been.
It's just remarkable.
I think there's a tendencyamong probably Christians around
(20:53):
the world to go back when theyread their Bibles maybe
especially looking at the Bookof Acts and Paul's missionary
journeys and some of the justamazing stories that are told
there and in the Gospels tothink, boy, wouldn't it be great
if I could have been a part ofall of that.
But the reality is that God isactually doing things today that
(21:15):
he never did in the firstcentury and that we are having
the privilege of living in atime where the first century
saints probably are looking downfrom heaven and saying, boy, I
wish I could be part of that.
Chad Mason (21:27):
Isn't that amazing?
That's a great perspective,great thought there, blake.
So there's a lot more to yourpresentation, a lot more that we
talked about.
I think one of the things thatwas compelling was I think there
was a slide that you showed.
You walked through each portionof the slide but it said that
at Pentecost there was onebeliever for every 300 people
(21:51):
groups or something along thoselines and then we kind of or one
church, maybe one church, whatwas?
Do you remember the specificson that?
Blake McDaniel (22:00):
Yeah, if my memory's not failing me, I think
at the end of the first centurythere were 12 unreached people
groups for every church on theplanet.
Chad Mason (22:09):
Every church on the planet.
So you needed each church wouldneed to divide up the people
groups.
For every church on the planet,every church on the planet, so
each church would need to divideup the people groups and need
to tackle 12 unreached peoplegroups for there to be a
thorough saturation movement.
Blake McDaniel (22:21):
Absolutely, and that's just overwhelming.
Chad Mason (22:23):
Yeah, of course, and then that's progressed Slowly
but it's progressed.
And so do you remember I?
Blake McDaniel (22:32):
I know that I remember the last one, but uh
yeah some of the steps along theway, yeah well, one of the
steps along the way is aroundabout the time of the protestant
reformation, around about 1500,that ratio had dropped to one
to one, where if every church onthe planet adopted a different
unreached people group and tookthat responsibility seriously,
(22:54):
that the world could be one forChrist in a generation.
Well, when you come forwardfrom that, come up to the year
1900, that ratio is somethinglike maybe 30 or 50 to 1.
And as you come up to the newmillennium, that ratio goes all
(23:16):
the way up to 600 to one.
So you've got the concept ofpartnership that's being
introduced, where today morethan 600 churches could partner
together, focusing on a singleunreached people group.
And if we did that in asystematic way on a global scale
, we could complete the task inour lifetime.
Chad Mason (23:37):
The concept is unimaginable.
There's far more resource thannecessary to finish this task,
but the concept, the thing thatyou mentioned, is that it's not
evenly distributed.
We have the resources, andthose resources are even
available in some ways, and yetthere are still places in the
(23:59):
world, peoples in the world haveyet to hear the gospel for the
first time.
Blake McDaniel (24:03):
Sadly that's the case, and one of the parables
out of the gospels that we tooka look at together today in the
class out of Matthew 13 is theparable of the yeast, and, of
course, for anybody who's abaker, they know how vital yeast
is in the baking process,because whatever you're baking
(24:25):
is not going to rise withoutyeast.
Well, the problem is not thatthere is a lack of yeast,
there's plenty of yeast.
The problem is it's there is alack of yeast, there's plenty of
yeast.
The problem is it's not evenlydistributed through the dough,
and so there are areas that havean abundance of yeast in it and
there are areas of the worldthat have virtually no yeast in
(24:45):
it, thinking of yeast as being apicture of the gospel Sure, and
so, as a result, that cake thatcomes out of the oven after
being baked is a really lumpycake, and that's sad because
virtually 40% of the world wouldbe included in those areas in
that cake that just don't haveenough yeast in it.
Chad Mason (25:08):
Yeah.
So that's another incrediblemoment as we go through Lesson 9
, is thinking through theseplaces that have extremely
limited or no access to thegospel of Jesus.
And so you always hear the termif you've been on Perspectives,
you've heard the term for surethe 1040 window.
It's talking about the place onthe map where the 10th parallel
(25:31):
and 40th longitudes interactand forms a square on a map that
shows basically North Africa,southeast Asia and the Middle
East, and you put those togetherand you look at it and you see
that it's where the largestmajorities of high-population
peoples live and the leastopportunity to find the gospel.
(25:53):
And he even talked about thecircle of significance, the
India, china, indonesia kind ofcircle that pulls in Southeast
Asia, and you've got in thatgroup 99% of all Hindus, 98% of
all Buddhists, huge percentagesof Muslims as well, and you just
got this huge.
(26:13):
This is an area, and thenthat's where we send I think the
statistic was 4% of ourmissionaries or something along
those lines.
Blake McDaniel (26:19):
Yeah, it's sad that the church really is not
nearly as strategic as it shouldbe in terms of how we allocate
both manpower resources andfinancial resources, and I don't
mean to be throwing stones atthe church, but the places that
(26:40):
are going to be easy to reachhave been reached.
They have been, and the placesthat are left, it's going to
take people who are willing topay a price in order to go there
and to have an impact there.
Chad Mason (26:57):
I mean when you look at how the gospel has moved
throughout history.
When it moves into new places,it almost always is met with
opposition.
What's wild is also met withincredible blessing.
The people are willing tosacrifice with what seems to be
inordinate courage and greatlove for their master, and they
(27:21):
don't seem to feel like they'resacrificing all that.
We would, from the outside,look and say, look what you're
giving up, but they seem to bedoing it with such joy.
One of the stories you tell andI think you tell it very well is
a marketing illustration aboutCoca-Cola and that Coca-Cola had
(27:42):
a vision to put a can of Cokewithin reach of every person on
the planet.
And they kind of work throughthis process of how are we going
to accomplish that.
And I love this story.
I've used it many times since Ifirst heard you talk about it.
But if you are just working fora marketing firm like Coca-Cola
(28:02):
to try to get your product intheir hands, you know you might
think about how you put yourresources, marketing resources
into practice.
How do we get this out therefurther, right?
And so you talk abouteverything from market dominance
where they're strong versuswhere they're not, where they
want to be and how they, howthey move towards working to get
(28:23):
that that product available.
Tell us a little bit in thattheme.
It's a fun analogy.
I have a fun story to go alongwith it.
Blake McDaniel (28:31):
Well, I look forward to hearing your story.
The statistics are not exactlya third, a third and a third,
but they're close to that, andso let's, for sake of argument,
say that it is that when a thirdof the market.
In the case of Coca-Cola, youwould say they dominate that
(28:54):
market.
Coca-cola products are widelyused within that market.
A third of the market Coca-Colahas their foot in the door, and
a third of the market they haveno market share at all.
So how would they choose toallocate their resources if
their vision was to put a thirdof the market?
They have no market share atall.
So how would they choose toallocate their resources if
their vision was to put a can ofCoke in the hands of every
person on the planet?
Well, coke is a metaphor for thegospel, and what's it going to
(29:18):
take for us to put the gospelwithin reach of every person on
the planet?
If a third we have goodpenetration with, a third we
have our foot in the door with,and a third we have no influence
with at all, how do we allocateour manpower resources?
How do we allocate ourfinancial resources in a
(29:39):
situation like that?
Well, I think any marketingdirector that was worth his salt
would say let's devote a thirdhere, a third here and a third
here.
And if he was at all strategic,he would say let's take some of
the resources from the marketthat we dominate and shift them
to the market where we have nopresence.
(30:00):
Sadly, the church has notchosen to operate that way.
Chad Mason (30:04):
Well, we're definitely not united in our
ability to do so, even if we did, but it is, I think, a really
great word picture.
And if you've traveled ifyou're listening today and if
you've traveled internationallyhave you ever been anywhere
where you couldn't get a Coke?
You get this picture.
This is my story.
I was in the Army from 99 to2001.
(30:26):
I'm sorry, from 97 to 99.
And as a part of my Armydeployment, we went to Thailand
and we were hiking in thejungles for several weeks as a
part of a training mission.
It was horrible, it was hot, itwas wet, it was miserable.
And there was this one day.
We had been in the jungle formultiple days in a row.
(30:47):
None of us had any wallet ormoney or anything with us.
We'd been hiking forever, andyou don't go on those
deployments prepared to buyanything.
But we're hunkered down in thejungle and if you've been in the
military, when you stop, youput yourself in a defensive
posture, a ring, so all of theweapons are pointed outwards
towards an unforeseenseen enemy,so to speak.
(31:08):
And uh, while we're out in themiddle of the jungle, we haven't
seen anybody in a couple days.
Uh, this man comes walking outof the jungle with two big bags
of plastic like grocery bags,with ice and coca-cola.
And apparently this happensevery year.
The, the american army, istraining out in the middle of
the jungle and he knows.
No, he knew right where we weregoing to be and he knew that
(31:30):
our weapons didn't have realbullets in them or anything.
There was no fear.
He walks right up to me and hetaps on my head and he says ugi,
you want coke?
And I started laughing becauseI thought for one, none of us
have money.
Uh, one of our, our commandingofficers, uh had some, some thai
money and paid for all theokesand we had cold Cokes in the
middle of the jungle, in themiddle of the hottest day.
(31:52):
It made me laugh when I firstheard you tell that story about
Coca-Cola.
I'm like, yeah, they are reallygood.
You're in the middle of thejungle and there's a guy
carrying Coca-Colas out to thoseAmericans in the middle of the
bush out there and and and youthink it is legitimate to think
about how many products have hadsuch strong representation in
(32:15):
every quarter of the planet.
Maybe Coca-Cola has beat thegospel to places on the on the
planet, and what a shame that acompany with, really, at this
point, unlimited resources, butalso maybe, highly engaged
vision, can do what we can't doin a much shorter time.
(32:35):
They've only been around for 150years, right?
And yet here we are, 2,000years later, continuing to try
to figure out what's it going totake to get the gospel into
some of these places.
And it's a great word picture.
I hope, as you're listening tothis, that it gives you a
thought like well, what would ittake, what kind of effort would
it take to get to some of theseplaces where the gospel's never
(32:56):
been?
And I want you to know that's aconcept that many missiologists
, many organizations, manychurches are wrestling with
today is what is it going totake for us to see this first
level fulfillment of the GreatCommission achieved?
Blake McDaniel (33:12):
Let me share a personal story related to the
question that you're throwingout there to travel with my
senior pastor to Central Asiaand to be involved in the very
first year of a church planningtraining center there in that
(33:33):
part of the world which at thatpoint in time was considered to
be the least reached area on theplanet.
And at the end of the two weeksthere I was invited to be part
of that church planning teamthat was operating there, to be
part of that church planningteam that was operating there.
And I just was not prepared forthat invitation being extended
(34:02):
and I took all of about fiveseconds to reflect on the
invitation and I said no and Iwas overwhelmed, as I reflected
back on it, at how graciouslythe individual that I responded
to with that no, how theyresponded Well, god is a God of
second chances.
And a year later thatinvitation was re-extended in
another context and I respondedin a little better way that
(34:23):
second time around and my wifeand I ended up doing an
exploratory trip to considerjoining that team and being part
of what God was doing inCentral Asia.
We decided after that trip tosay no, but this time it was a
prayerful, well-considered,well-researched, no, and part of
what I learned through thatprocess, because my fist had
(34:45):
been closed that first time Ireceived the invitation, I was
not open at all.
I had finally allowed the HolySpirit to pry my fingers loose
and open my hand up, and it waswhen I did that that God began
to speak to me and he said,blake, I've not created you to
(35:07):
go, I've created you to mobilize, and I'm going to use you to
raise up 100 or more long-termmissionaries that will be far
more successful than you wouldever be in that setting.
And so that's what I have beendoing since that time is my
(35:27):
involvement in mobilization.
Now God's calling on.
Each of our lives is different.
I'm not saying that God'scalling us all to mobilize?
Sure, but what I am saying iswe have to get to a place in our
lives where we're open andwhere we're willing to say yes
to the Lord rather than sayingno, like I did in that initial
invitation that I got.
(35:48):
And as we begin to say yes, Godbegins to bring light and
begins to show us.
This is what I created you todo.
Chad Mason (35:59):
I love that and honestly, I feel like that's
kind of where Perspectives leadsus.
So, like at the end of theclass, we're really telling
people.
We're not telling you what youneed to do.
You don't have to go, you don'thave to mobilize, but you need
to be part of what God's doingand how that looks.
What that looks like it's goingto be different from person to
person, but knowing it, beingwilling, right, it's letting
(36:22):
your yes be on the table, likenot just immediately rejecting
it because it's so foreign toour plan or our vision for our
future, and it's a huge part ofwhat we're doing.
Well, blake, we're kind of atthe end of our time here and I
just want to say thank you toyou for being willing to jump on
here.
You've taught a class lastnight, this morning, at another
(36:43):
one this evening.
We kind of get you through thegauntlet here in Bernie for this
loop, but I'm so thankful foryour influence.
Your work, your influence forme has been a long time and
continues to have good things.
I love having food with you andyou have some gentle words of
(37:03):
rebuke and gentle words ofleading for me and it's uh, it's
always so wonderful to have youhere and I really do appreciate
you taking the time.
I'm glad you're not far away.
You can drive down from Austinanytime you like.
You have a place to hang outhere in Bernie, for sure.
Um, but thank you, thank youfor what you're doing and, uh,
and we definitely will bepraying for you.
Any last words before we wefinish up our podcast.
Blake McDaniel (37:27):
Only for you.
Any last words before we wefinish up our podcast, Only to
return the thanks to you.
Chad Mason (37:35):
It's great to be here with you today, chad.
Well, thank you Um it, itreally was a blessing I watched.
One of the things I thought wasso special today is when you
finished the session normallyabout we finished right at noon
and, uh, everyone's out by like12.05, like 12.10.
Today, everyone just hung out.
They wanted to talk.
They were chatting with eachother, they were chatting with
you, they were chatting with theleaders.
I think there were still 20 or25 people there at like 12.15.
(37:58):
And it was really neat to seehow people's hearts were engaged
with the content that you gavethem and so well done, sir.
Thank you so much for againyour influence here and we'll
have you on the podcast againsometime in the future.
But if you're listening todayand that this has been
encouraging to you, please reachout, tell us what you've
enjoyed.
If you have any questions, we'dlove to talk to you more about
(38:20):
how you're thinking about thispodcast.
Blake is not far away.
He's in Austin and I'll put hiscontact information in the show
notes if you want to reach outto him and hear more about what
God's doing through thenavigators around us and in his
work.
So thank you, sir, for yourtime with us today and for those
(38:41):
of you listening the podcast.
We call it the so that Podcast,and we just remember that God
has called us for a purpose, andthat purpose is not just for
our enjoyment of him that's agreat part of it but it's so
that his name will be made knownamong the nations and his
salvation among all the peoples,and so be a blessing wherever
you are.
Make sure that you're a gospellight to the people to whom God
(39:04):
has sent you.
Have a wonderful day and Godbless.
We are so thankful that youjoined our podcast today.
We would love to hear anyfeedback you may have for us.
Remember, psalm 67 says may Godbe gracious to us and bless us
and make his face shine on us sothat your ways may be known on
(39:25):
earth and your salvation amongall nations.
Don't forget why the Lordblesses us it's so that we can
be a blessing to those around us.
Until next time, god bless.
Hey everybody, thank you so much for joining us
today on FBC Missions.
So that Podcast.
Today I have a great friend andguest.
His name is Blake McDaniel.
He works with Navigators andwe're going to talk about how
God is using us to makedisciples.
Hope you enjoy.
Welcome to FBC Missions.
So that Podcast.
(00:22):
This is an encouraging place tohear how God is working in and
around us.
Hey everybody, so glad thatyou've joined us today.
(00:49):
Uh, we've got another fun guest, One of our perspectives
instructors.
His name is Blake McDaniel.
Hey Blake, how are you, sir?
Blake McDaniel (00:56):
Doing great.
I appreciate the chance to bewith you today, chad man, I'm so
glad that you're here.
Chad Mason (01:01):
I was trying to think back on how long we've
been friends, but it's been along time.
Blake McDaniel (01:06):
Yeah, I'm not real good on timelines, but I
remember that in a previous lifeyou were the missions pastor at
a church down in Beaumont andyou brought me down as an
instructor there, and sowhenever that was I'm guessing
what maybe 10 or 12 years ago.
Chad Mason (01:23):
It had to be 2012, 2013.
So, yeah, it's a long time ago.
Yeah, it might have beenearlier.
So my daughter was born in 2010.
That's why we were in Beaumont.
We came out of Mexico, so itmight have been 2011.
It was the year that weprobably had that first
perspectives class in Beaumont.
(01:43):
Yeah, the years are ticking off.
It's 14 years, man.
We've been friends for a longtime.
Blake, you look the same, maybea little bit more white in your
hair, but you know, you've notaged at all.
Blake McDaniel (01:56):
Well, you can't tell that on a podcast.
You're being very kind.
Chad Mason (01:59):
Well, nobody knows.
I mean, you could look likeBrad Pitt in here.
Nobody really knows but uh that, uh, you're from Austin, so the
Texas Hill Country has beenkind to you.
You look great.
So, uh, tell us a little aboutyour family, about how you got
to Central Texas, how longyou've been there.
Blake McDaniel (02:17):
Tell us a little about yourself, blake yeah, I
am a long-term Central Texasperson.
I wasn't born and raised here,but I moved to Austin in 1972 to
attend UT and I've been thereever since so over 50 years now
and, like a lot of folks that doundergrad or grad work at UT,
(02:37):
just fell in love with the cityand stayed on.
Chad Mason (02:40):
Well, you know, in the Hill Country, especially
this part of the Hill Country,there's a lot of purple people.
You know those Aggie fans and Ithink you might be the first
Longhorn fan, longhorn graduatethat I've had on my podcast, and
I have been a long-termlifelong Longhorn fan.
So I just want to welcome you,blake.
(03:00):
It's a special greeting for youtoday.
Blake McDaniel (03:02):
Well, you're welcome.
I did undergrad, I did gradschool and I actually worked at
UT for 15 years.
Oh gosh, so my blood is veryorange.
But I've got a daughter.
That guess where she went toschool.
Chad Mason (03:15):
I don't know, it has to be Aggieland for us to have
this conversation.
Blake McDaniel (03:19):
It is.
She went to the evil empire.
Chad Mason (03:21):
The evil empire.
You know, jeff Lewis, he washere a few weeks ago and he's a
Tennessee guy.
You know I always joke with himand say that that's the flaming
orange school rather than theburnt orange school.
And he says that you take thatbeautiful, bright orange and you
bake it in the sun for too longand then you get the Texas
orange.
And I thought that's a greatway of saying that, jeff.
(03:44):
So well, we're so glad thatyou're with us today.
Blake, you've been doing reallymission mobilization for quite
a while, definitely the 14 yearswe've been friends.
But tell me how you got into it.
So you were working you said 15years for the University of
(04:05):
Texas.
How did you go from full-timecareer at the university to
moving into really missionsmobilization, disciple making,
which has, I think, been yourlonger career?
Blake McDaniel (04:15):
Yeah, great question.
In middle age I was working asa systems analyst at UT Austin
and was involved with the churchthat I'm still involved with
today, hill Country Bible Churchin Northwest Austin, and I was
invited by our senior pastor tolead the global outreach effort
(04:35):
there at our church.
As a layperson, we had done ashort-term missions trip to
Central Asia together where wewere doing some teaching at a
church planning training centerthere, and at the end of that
time he invited me to lead ourglobal outreach effort and I did
that for about five years.
So you know it was entirely asa layman.
(04:57):
I was working full time at UT atthe time and it whetted my
appetite and decided that Iwanted to do what you see a lot
of people doing, turning theiravocation into their vocation
and so I began looking aroundfor opportunities to do
(05:17):
mobilization-type work with adesire to operate at a little
higher level than I was leadingthe missions effort at Hill
Country and to be able, at thathigher level, to work with
dozens, if not hundreds, ofchurches doing the same kinds of
things with them that I'd hadthe chance to experience in my
(05:40):
church.
So it was really that volunteerrole in my church that first
got me involved, and I ended upgetting involved with an
organization that no longerexists called Advancing Churches
, and Commitment Did a lot ofconsulting work.
We did conferences and a numberof different things to just try
to serve as a resource topeople like yourself who are
(06:03):
leading the missions efforts inlocal churches.
Chad Mason (06:07):
Yeah, so I'm glad you brought up affectionately
ACMC.
When I first got involved inmissions leadership, which was
only back in like 2002, some ofthe first resources I was given
were ACMC resources.
I think by that time probablythe ministry had closed already.
I don't know when it closed,but by 2002, was ACMC still
(06:30):
around?
Blake McDaniel (06:31):
It was, I didn't get involved with them until
2000.
And we ended up merging with anorganization called Caleb
Project in 2007.
Both organizations werestruggling and we kind of pulled
each other underwater, and wehad a lot of intellectual
(06:53):
property rights and we had somedebt that we needed to deal with
as an organization, and so weput those things out on the
market for the highest bidder,and pioneers ended up buying all
of our intellectual propertyrights.
And then they surprised us byproviding an opportunity for
anybody that wanted to come onboard with them to do so, and so
(07:16):
most of my ACMC colleagues hadscattered to the four winds, but
there were, I think, five of uswho accepted Pioneer's offer
and came on board with them, andwe actually reconstituted ACMC
under the umbrella of.
Chad Mason (07:31):
Pioneer's.
Okay, okay, so that's awesome.
We had our first instructor forPerspectives this year was
Andrew Remke.
Blake McDaniel (07:43):
Oh yeah.
Chad Mason (07:43):
And uh, and he's you know church partnerships with
pioneers.
A great guy did a great jobspeaking for us, but he's he's
local and I've really enjoyedgetting to know Andrew, and so a
lot of his resources remind meof ACMC and, uh, that would
probably be why.
Blake McDaniel (07:59):
Well, there's a strong connection there.
Acmc survived for four yearsunder the umbrella of pioneers,
and then it was finally shutdown, and when that happened, I
joined that team that Andrew nowleads.
I was part of the churchpartnership team, and so he
ended up taking over the role ofthe fellow who was my boss when
(08:20):
I was part of that team.
Chad Mason (08:21):
That's wild.
The connections are alwaysthere, you just don't know it.
And so that's pretty neat.
He's a great guy and what agreat resource.
I didn't realize that ACMC hadthat kind of influence on
pioneers with their churchpartnerships, but it makes sense
because there's a lot ofsimilarities.
Well, some of those tools thatwere on my shelf again as early
(08:43):
for me as 2002, 2003, have beenvery valuable to me.
They still have value.
They still have a lot of greatideas on how do you form a
mission committee, how would youorganize your church to have a
heart for the nations, how doyou kind of work through a
strategy to mobilize, kind oflift and pull people from within
(09:06):
the church to have a globalvision and global heart and idea
?
And so I just love that.
That's so much a part of whoand what God has used you for in
the past and continues to now.
So tell me, where are you now?
What are you doing now If it'snot Pioneers and AMC, mc?
How is God using you as amobilizer today?
Blake McDaniel (09:30):
Well, I ended up leaving ACMC and Pioneers back
in 2013 and ended up coming backto an organization that had a
profound impact in my life as ayoung believer a group called
the Navigators.
Chad Mason (09:48):
I think people have heard about those guys.
They've been around for alittle while.
Blake McDaniel (09:51):
We have.
We're a little over 90 yearsold now and I was involved with
the Navs as an undergrad and agrad student at UT Austin back
in the 70s and they reallyshaped my view of what the
spiritual life is and what theGreat Commission is all about.
So that was my firstinvolvement with the NAVs was
(10:13):
back in the 70s.
I served as associate staffwith them for five years back in
the 90s with the church arm ofthe organization.
And now here I am, later on inlife, I'm 11 years into a
full-time role with theNavigators.
Chad Mason (10:30):
And tell me about that role.
What are you doing at this time?
Blake McDaniel (10:34):
Well, I made a move back in the fall to a
different arm of theorganization.
We're big enough where we'vegot a number of different things
that we do, and one of the armsis an arm for senior staff and
I decided when I turned 70 thatI probably qualified for that.
And so I made that jump back inSeptember, and one of the
(10:55):
things I love about it is thatthey give me a lot more latitude
with my job description.
I figure by this point in timein my life that hopefully I
figured a few things out and soI've got two basic components to
what I do with Encore, thatsenior arm of the organization.
One is an international pieceand so my focus within the
(11:19):
organization is with Eurasia,and different people use that
word in different ways, but forus Eurasia is the former Soviet.
Chad Mason (11:27):
Union.
Blake McDaniel (11:27):
Okay, and I'm involved in doing research and
doing recruiting of newmissionaries for that area of
the world.
So that's one piece of my job.
The other piece of my job islocal, so it's really fun having
both a local and a globalcomponent to what I do.
And most of the local stuff Ido is through my home church,
(11:47):
where I first got thisexperience leading missions 25
years ago.
I'm involved in disciple-makingand coaching and mentoring and
leadership and just havereengaged with our global
outreach team after nearly a20-year gap.
Yeah, and I'm doingmobilization work in the context
(12:09):
of our church.
Chad Mason (12:10):
Man, I love to hear that.
It's really exciting to see onecontinuity you know people move
around a lot today and there'sa lot of changes and to think
that you've been a part of thesame community of faith for 30
plus years, that you're servingin a place where you used to
have various roles over theyears, different ways that
you've engaged, and yet you'vehad the same continuity, the
(12:34):
same community of faith for thatlong, is a wonderful thing.
I think what you can build in32 years is different than what
you can build in two rightYou're absolutely right.
Blake McDaniel (12:43):
As a matter of fact, just to elaborate on that
a little bit, I view involvementwith local church kind of like
marriage.
There's legitimate grounds fordivorce, but it's few and far
between, and I see so manypeople today that don't hold
that view of the local church,that don't hold that view of the
(13:06):
local church, and so it's aprivilege to have been a 32-year
member of this church and tohave been with them during times
where things were going great,but to be able to persevere
through times that were a littlebit more of a struggle.
Chad Mason (13:21):
You mentioned that you were doing the NAVs in the
1970s in Austin.
I was also in Austin in the1970s.
Blake McDaniel (13:27):
Oh, is that right.
Chad Mason (13:28):
Yeah, I was born in Seton Hospital in 79.
How?
Blake McDaniel (13:31):
about that.
Chad Mason (13:33):
My kids say I'm old because I lived in the 70s.
I don't remember the 70s so Ijust thought you know you might
not.
We probably crossed paths allthe way back in 79.
Well, there's so many goodthings that God has been doing
through you, blake, but one ofthe things I get to see and have
(13:55):
been a part of is yourinstruction and perspectives,
and you've been a great lessonnine.
I think I've had you everyclass I've led.
You've come and done a lessonnine along the way, and lesson
nine is an interesting part ofthe class.
It's you mentioned today and Ialways say that it's a hinge.
You've spent the first eightweeks.
You spend five weeks talkingabout God's heart for the
nations.
You're looking at how thescriptures have facilitated his
(14:17):
passion to draw all the peoplesto himself.
Then we talk about history, howGod has been moving, of course,
through the apostles and sincethe apostles and into modern day
.
We've, you know, last week,focused on the pioneers you know
and all the kind of big namesand the big movements of the
last 300 years.
And then we get to lesson nine.
Lesson nine is kind of I call itthe report card.
(14:38):
It's where you kind of what'shappening today?
What's going on around theworld?
Where are we at If this wasGod's vision from the beginning?
Abraham on, and very clearly,the commissioning of the church.
The mission of the church is toengage the nations In 2,000
years of Christian history.
How are we doing?
And so you get to really diveinto that space.
(14:59):
You gave amazing I mean such ayou're a numbers guy, which I
think is great because it helpsyou kind of get through what can
be a tedious lesson at timeswith all the statistics, but
what comes out of it is thatthere's a movement towards the
Lord today, unlike anythingthat's happened in world history
(15:23):
.
So let's talk just a minuteabout how the Lord is moving.
In the last couple hundredyears especially, I think you
gave some statistics that that,uh, that are really interesting.
Um, but I think one of them wasin 1790, I think it was only
was it one percent or threepercent yeah, it was one percent
(15:43):
yeah, so.
So.
So talk about that just for aminute, sure um.
Blake McDaniel (15:48):
For those of you who are not history buffs, 1790
was around about the time thatthe individual who's called the
father of modern missions,william Carey, went to India and
began to work in that area ofthe world, and at that point in
time, only 1% of the world wasevangelical Christian, and so
(16:12):
there was a huge need for whathe did back over 200 years ago.
In the 200-plus years sincethen, god has done phenomenal
things, and much of that reallysince World War II a phenomenal
growth of the church.
Really since World War II, aphenomenal growth of the church.
So we go from a point where theworld is about 2% evangelical
(16:36):
Christian around the time ofWilliam Carey to World War II
where it's about 3% evangelicalChristian, with that number
doubling in the next 40 years to6% and then doubling again in
the next 30 years to 6% and thendoubling again in the next 30
years to 12%.
And what I described in theclass today as we talked about
(16:57):
this for those of you that havea math background, this is
called the exponential part ofthe growth curve, where you plot
these data points on an x-yaxis and you connect the dots
and the line at some pointbegins pointing straight up.
Well, that's happened sinceworld war ii and I think
(17:20):
probably for most followers ofjesus here in the us, they're
oblivious to that.
They have no idea that that'swhat god has been doing in the
world for the past 80 years.
Chad Mason (17:31):
Yeah, it really is remarkable.
I mean just straight from 3% to12%, a 9% increase in the last
30 years.
But the shocking thing is from6% to 12% in the last 30 years
and, like you said, the trendcontinues.
So you could see anotherdoubling in the next seven and a
(17:52):
half years.
Like it's really quiteincredible to see how the body
of Christ is exploding aroundthe world.
But you're right, we don't seeit here.
Why don't we?
Why is it not something thatwe're all aware of?
Blake McDaniel (18:06):
Well, I think one of our tendencies as
Americans is to look at theworld through an American lens
and I have to acknowledge I dothat all the time.
Well, when we do that regardingthe church, we get a distorted
picture of what's reallyhappening in the world.
Because think back on what thechurch in the US has looked like
(18:27):
since World War II, with RomanCatholics, with Orthodox, with
most folks out of a mainlinedenominational background.
They've seen fairly significantdecline in involvement since
that time.
And even with many of ourindependent churches they're
doing well if they're justholding steady, if they're
(18:48):
maintaining, yeah.
But when you look at thenumbers outside the Western
world, in Latin America, inAfrica, in Asia, it's a very
different picture.
The church is exploding inthose parts of the world and for
most of us we're just not aware.
It's not part of our frame ofreference for assessing what it
(19:12):
is that God is doing.
Chad Mason (19:15):
Yeah, it really.
It's mind-boggling.
The numbers are astronomical.
To try to think about thenumber I think you mentioned
today, there were 400,000believers in Nepal, when there
was maybe like 10 in 1990.
I can't remember what thenumber was.
It was something very small in1990.
(19:37):
And now we are 35 years pastthat and you have 400,000
believers in Nepal and you don'tsee them, you don't hear them.
I don't know enough.
I mean, I do.
I've met a Nepali believer, butnot many, and it's definitely
not something that's visible atFirst Baptist Church here in
Bernie.
But it doesn't actually matterright, what they're seeing, what
(19:58):
God's doing isn't contingent onour understanding or knowledge,
but it does seem something wecould celebrate, it's something
that we could—I think mostpeople in the West feel like the
church is in decline and theyfeel like we're losing the
battle.
You know, they feel like.
They feel like the Christianityis is passing away before our
eyes and that brings somenervousness, some tension.
(20:20):
It kind of feeds into thepolitical day as well, the just
this feeling that everythingthat we know is is passing away
in front of us.
You know, but it's really notthe truth on the global scale,
the way that the know is passingaway in front of us, you know,
but it's really not the truth.
Blake McDaniel (20:31):
On the global scale, the way the gospel is
growing among the places it hadnever been in the past, yeah, it
really is phenomenal toconsider what God has done, you
know, during the few years ofwhat our lives have been.
It's just remarkable.
I think there's a tendencyamong probably Christians around
(20:53):
the world to go back when theyread their Bibles maybe
especially looking at the Bookof Acts and Paul's missionary
journeys and some of the justamazing stories that are told
there and in the Gospels tothink, boy, wouldn't it be great
if I could have been a part ofall of that.
But the reality is that God isactually doing things today that
(21:15):
he never did in the firstcentury and that we are having
the privilege of living in atime where the first century
saints probably are looking downfrom heaven and saying, boy, I
wish I could be part of that.
Chad Mason (21:27):
Isn't that amazing?
That's a great perspective,great thought there, blake.
So there's a lot more to yourpresentation, a lot more that we
talked about.
I think one of the things thatwas compelling was I think there
was a slide that you showed.
You walked through each portionof the slide but it said that
at Pentecost there was onebeliever for every 300 people
(21:51):
groups or something along thoselines and then we kind of or one
church, maybe one church, whatwas?
Do you remember the specificson that?
Blake McDaniel (22:00):
Yeah, if my memory's not failing me, I think
at the end of the first centurythere were 12 unreached people
groups for every church on theplanet.
Chad Mason (22:09):
Every church on the planet.
So you needed each church wouldneed to divide up the people
groups.
For every church on the planet,every church on the planet, so
each church would need to divideup the people groups and need
to tackle 12 unreached peoplegroups for there to be a
thorough saturation movement.
Blake McDaniel (22:21):
Absolutely, and that's just overwhelming.
Chad Mason (22:23):
Yeah, of course, and then that's progressed Slowly
but it's progressed.
And so do you remember I?
Blake McDaniel (22:32):
I know that I remember the last one, but uh
yeah some of the steps along theway, yeah well, one of the
steps along the way is aroundabout the time of the protestant
reformation, around about 1500,that ratio had dropped to one
to one, where if every church onthe planet adopted a different
unreached people group and tookthat responsibility seriously,
(22:54):
that the world could be one forChrist in a generation.
Well, when you come forwardfrom that, come up to the year
1900, that ratio is somethinglike maybe 30 or 50 to 1.
And as you come up to the newmillennium, that ratio goes all
(23:16):
the way up to 600 to one.
So you've got the concept ofpartnership that's being
introduced, where today morethan 600 churches could partner
together, focusing on a singleunreached people group.
And if we did that in asystematic way on a global scale
, we could complete the task inour lifetime.
Chad Mason (23:37):
The concept is unimaginable.
There's far more resource thannecessary to finish this task,
but the concept, the thing thatyou mentioned, is that it's not
evenly distributed.
We have the resources, andthose resources are even
available in some ways, and yetthere are still places in the
(23:59):
world, peoples in the world haveyet to hear the gospel for the
first time.
Blake McDaniel (24:03):
Sadly that's the case, and one of the parables
out of the gospels that we tooka look at together today in the
class out of Matthew 13 is theparable of the yeast, and, of
course, for anybody who's abaker, they know how vital yeast
is in the baking process,because whatever you're baking
(24:25):
is not going to rise withoutyeast.
Well, the problem is not thatthere is a lack of yeast,
there's plenty of yeast.
The problem is it's there is alack of yeast, there's plenty of
yeast.
The problem is it's not evenlydistributed through the dough,
and so there are areas that havean abundance of yeast in it and
there are areas of the worldthat have virtually no yeast in
(24:45):
it, thinking of yeast as being apicture of the gospel Sure, and
so, as a result, that cake thatcomes out of the oven after
being baked is a really lumpycake, and that's sad because
virtually 40% of the world wouldbe included in those areas in
that cake that just don't haveenough yeast in it.
Chad Mason (25:08):
Yeah.
So that's another incrediblemoment as we go through Lesson 9
, is thinking through theseplaces that have extremely
limited or no access to thegospel of Jesus.
And so you always hear the termif you've been on Perspectives,
you've heard the term for surethe 1040 window.
It's talking about the place onthe map where the 10th parallel
(25:31):
and 40th longitudes interactand forms a square on a map that
shows basically North Africa,southeast Asia and the Middle
East, and you put those togetherand you look at it and you see
that it's where the largestmajorities of high-population
peoples live and the leastopportunity to find the gospel.
(25:53):
And he even talked about thecircle of significance, the
India, china, indonesia kind ofcircle that pulls in Southeast
Asia, and you've got in thatgroup 99% of all Hindus, 98% of
all Buddhists, huge percentagesof Muslims as well, and you just
got this huge.
(26:13):
This is an area, and thenthat's where we send I think the
statistic was 4% of ourmissionaries or something along
those lines.
Blake McDaniel (26:19):
Yeah, it's sad that the church really is not
nearly as strategic as it shouldbe in terms of how we allocate
both manpower resources andfinancial resources, and I don't
mean to be throwing stones atthe church, but the places that
(26:40):
are going to be easy to reachhave been reached.
They have been, and the placesthat are left, it's going to
take people who are willing topay a price in order to go there
and to have an impact there.
Chad Mason (26:57):
I mean when you look at how the gospel has moved
throughout history.
When it moves into new places,it almost always is met with
opposition.
What's wild is also met withincredible blessing.
The people are willing tosacrifice with what seems to be
inordinate courage and greatlove for their master, and they
(27:21):
don't seem to feel like they'resacrificing all that.
We would, from the outside,look and say, look what you're
giving up, but they seem to bedoing it with such joy.
One of the stories you tell andI think you tell it very well is
a marketing illustration aboutCoca-Cola and that Coca-Cola had
(27:42):
a vision to put a can of Cokewithin reach of every person on
the planet.
And they kind of work throughthis process of how are we going
to accomplish that.
And I love this story.
I've used it many times since Ifirst heard you talk about it.
But if you are just working fora marketing firm like Coca-Cola
(28:02):
to try to get your product intheir hands, you know you might
think about how you put yourresources, marketing resources
into practice.
How do we get this out therefurther, right?
And so you talk abouteverything from market dominance
where they're strong versuswhere they're not, where they
want to be and how they, howthey move towards working to get
(28:23):
that that product available.
Tell us a little bit in thattheme.
It's a fun analogy.
I have a fun story to go alongwith it.
Blake McDaniel (28:31):
Well, I look forward to hearing your story.
The statistics are not exactlya third, a third and a third,
but they're close to that, andso let's, for sake of argument,
say that it is that when a thirdof the market.
In the case of Coca-Cola, youwould say they dominate that
(28:54):
market.
Coca-cola products are widelyused within that market.
A third of the market Coca-Colahas their foot in the door, and
a third of the market they haveno market share at all.
So how would they choose toallocate their resources if
their vision was to put a thirdof the market?
They have no market share atall.
So how would they choose toallocate their resources if
their vision was to put a can ofCoke in the hands of every
person on the planet?
Well, coke is a metaphor for thegospel, and what's it going to
(29:18):
take for us to put the gospelwithin reach of every person on
the planet?
If a third we have goodpenetration with, a third we
have our foot in the door with,and a third we have no influence
with at all, how do we allocateour manpower resources?
How do we allocate ourfinancial resources in a
(29:39):
situation like that?
Well, I think any marketingdirector that was worth his salt
would say let's devote a thirdhere, a third here and a third
here.
And if he was at all strategic,he would say let's take some of
the resources from the marketthat we dominate and shift them
to the market where we have nopresence.
(30:00):
Sadly, the church has notchosen to operate that way.
Chad Mason (30:04):
Well, we're definitely not united in our
ability to do so, even if we did, but it is, I think, a really
great word picture.
And if you've traveled ifyou're listening today and if
you've traveled internationallyhave you ever been anywhere
where you couldn't get a Coke?
You get this picture.
This is my story.
I was in the Army from 99 to2001.
(30:26):
I'm sorry, from 97 to 99.
And as a part of my Armydeployment, we went to Thailand
and we were hiking in thejungles for several weeks as a
part of a training mission.
It was horrible, it was hot, itwas wet, it was miserable.
And there was this one day.
We had been in the jungle formultiple days in a row.
(30:47):
None of us had any wallet ormoney or anything with us.
We'd been hiking forever, andyou don't go on those
deployments prepared to buyanything.
But we're hunkered down in thejungle and if you've been in the
military, when you stop, youput yourself in a defensive
posture, a ring, so all of theweapons are pointed outwards
towards an unforeseenseen enemy,so to speak.
(31:08):
And uh, while we're out in themiddle of the jungle, we haven't
seen anybody in a couple days.
Uh, this man comes walking outof the jungle with two big bags
of plastic like grocery bags,with ice and coca-cola.
And apparently this happensevery year.
The, the american army, istraining out in the middle of
the jungle and he knows.
No, he knew right where we weregoing to be and he knew that
(31:30):
our weapons didn't have realbullets in them or anything.
There was no fear.
He walks right up to me and hetaps on my head and he says ugi,
you want coke?
And I started laughing becauseI thought for one, none of us
have money.
Uh, one of our, our commandingofficers, uh had some, some thai
money and paid for all theokesand we had cold Cokes in the
middle of the jungle, in themiddle of the hottest day.
(31:52):
It made me laugh when I firstheard you tell that story about
Coca-Cola.
I'm like, yeah, they are reallygood.
You're in the middle of thejungle and there's a guy
carrying Coca-Colas out to thoseAmericans in the middle of the
bush out there and and and youthink it is legitimate to think
about how many products have hadsuch strong representation in
(32:15):
every quarter of the planet.
Maybe Coca-Cola has beat thegospel to places on the on the
planet, and what a shame that acompany with, really, at this
point, unlimited resources, butalso maybe, highly engaged
vision, can do what we can't doin a much shorter time.
(32:35):
They've only been around for 150years, right?
And yet here we are, 2,000years later, continuing to try
to figure out what's it going totake to get the gospel into
some of these places.
And it's a great word picture.
I hope, as you're listening tothis, that it gives you a
thought like well, what would ittake, what kind of effort would
it take to get to some of theseplaces where the gospel's never
(32:56):
been?
And I want you to know that's aconcept that many missiologists
, many organizations, manychurches are wrestling with
today is what is it going totake for us to see this first
level fulfillment of the GreatCommission achieved?
Blake McDaniel (33:12):
Let me share a personal story related to the
question that you're throwingout there to travel with my
senior pastor to Central Asiaand to be involved in the very
first year of a church planningtraining center there in that
(33:33):
part of the world which at thatpoint in time was considered to
be the least reached area on theplanet.
And at the end of the two weeksthere I was invited to be part
of that church planning teamthat was operating there, to be
part of that church planningteam that was operating there.
And I just was not prepared forthat invitation being extended
(34:02):
and I took all of about fiveseconds to reflect on the
invitation and I said no and Iwas overwhelmed, as I reflected
back on it, at how graciouslythe individual that I responded
to with that no, how theyresponded Well, god is a God of
second chances.
And a year later thatinvitation was re-extended in
another context and I respondedin a little better way that
(34:23):
second time around and my wifeand I ended up doing an
exploratory trip to considerjoining that team and being part
of what God was doing inCentral Asia.
We decided after that trip tosay no, but this time it was a
prayerful, well-considered,well-researched, no, and part of
what I learned through thatprocess, because my fist had
(34:45):
been closed that first time Ireceived the invitation, I was
not open at all.
I had finally allowed the HolySpirit to pry my fingers loose
and open my hand up, and it waswhen I did that that God began
to speak to me and he said,blake, I've not created you to
(35:07):
go, I've created you to mobilize, and I'm going to use you to
raise up 100 or more long-termmissionaries that will be far
more successful than you wouldever be in that setting.
And so that's what I have beendoing since that time is my
(35:27):
involvement in mobilization.
Now God's calling on.
Each of our lives is different.
I'm not saying that God'scalling us all to mobilize?
Sure, but what I am saying iswe have to get to a place in our
lives where we're open andwhere we're willing to say yes
to the Lord rather than sayingno, like I did in that initial
invitation that I got.
(35:48):
And as we begin to say yes, Godbegins to bring light and
begins to show us.
This is what I created you todo.
Chad Mason (35:59):
I love that and honestly, I feel like that's
kind of where Perspectives leadsus.
So, like at the end of theclass, we're really telling
people.
We're not telling you what youneed to do.
You don't have to go, you don'thave to mobilize, but you need
to be part of what God's doingand how that looks.
What that looks like it's goingto be different from person to
person, but knowing it, beingwilling, right, it's letting
(36:22):
your yes be on the table, likenot just immediately rejecting
it because it's so foreign toour plan or our vision for our
future, and it's a huge part ofwhat we're doing.
Well, blake, we're kind of atthe end of our time here and I
just want to say thank you toyou for being willing to jump on
here.
You've taught a class lastnight, this morning, at another
(36:43):
one this evening.
We kind of get you through thegauntlet here in Bernie for this
loop, but I'm so thankful foryour influence.
Your work, your influence forme has been a long time and
continues to have good things.
I love having food with you andyou have some gentle words of
(37:03):
rebuke and gentle words ofleading for me and it's uh, it's
always so wonderful to have youhere and I really do appreciate
you taking the time.
I'm glad you're not far away.
You can drive down from Austinanytime you like.
You have a place to hang outhere in Bernie, for sure.
Um, but thank you, thank youfor what you're doing and, uh,
and we definitely will bepraying for you.
Any last words before we wefinish up our podcast.
Blake McDaniel (37:27):
Only for you.
Any last words before we wefinish up our podcast, Only to
return the thanks to you.
Chad Mason (37:35):
It's great to be here with you today, chad.
Well, thank you Um it, itreally was a blessing I watched.
One of the things I thought wasso special today is when you
finished the session normallyabout we finished right at noon
and, uh, everyone's out by like12.05, like 12.10.
Today, everyone just hung out.
They wanted to talk.
They were chatting with eachother, they were chatting with
you, they were chatting with theleaders.
I think there were still 20 or25 people there at like 12.15.
(37:58):
And it was really neat to seehow people's hearts were engaged
with the content that you gavethem and so well done, sir.
Thank you so much for againyour influence here and we'll
have you on the podcast againsometime in the future.
But if you're listening todayand that this has been
encouraging to you, please reachout, tell us what you've
enjoyed.
If you have any questions, we'dlove to talk to you more about
(38:20):
how you're thinking about thispodcast.
Blake is not far away.
He's in Austin and I'll put hiscontact information in the show
notes if you want to reach outto him and hear more about what
God's doing through thenavigators around us and in his
work.
So thank you, sir, for yourtime with us today and for those
(38:41):
of you listening the podcast.
We call it the so that Podcast,and we just remember that God
has called us for a purpose, andthat purpose is not just for
our enjoyment of him that's agreat part of it but it's so
that his name will be made knownamong the nations and his
salvation among all the peoples,and so be a blessing wherever
you are.
Make sure that you're a gospellight to the people to whom God
(39:04):
has sent you.
Have a wonderful day and Godbless.
We are so thankful that youjoined our podcast today.
We would love to hear anyfeedback you may have for us.
Remember, psalm 67 says may Godbe gracious to us and bless us
and make his face shine on us sothat your ways may be known on
(39:25):
earth and your salvation amongall nations.
Don't forget why the Lordblesses us it's so that we can
be a blessing to those around us.
Until next time, god bless.
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