July 10, 2025 • 63 mins
Laura Butler's remarkable journey from band room to boardroom reveals how resilience and adaptability can transform career obstacles into opportunities for growth. Beginning with an unwavering passion for music education, Laura found her calling in high school classrooms where she created transformative experiences for students through band programs that functioned like families.
Behind the scenes, Laura navigated a gauntlet of challenges that many educators face: combative administrators who slashed budgets for essential program elements, parents threatening violence over discipline issues, and even dangerous situations involving weapons and drugs on campus. These experiences cultivated a resilience that would serve her throughout her career journey. "Teachers have PTSD too," she remarks, highlighting the often-overlooked stresses educators endure.
When her path as a music teacher was interrupted by her husband's military career and the impossible task of maintaining teaching credentials across state lines, Laura faced what she calls "an existential crisis." Rather than surrendering to circumstances, she discovered an unexpected opportunity working with transitioning military personnel. This pivot allowed her to apply her educator's heart in new ways – helping veterans translate their military experience into civilian success.
Through roles with government contractors, nonprofits, and major consulting firms, Laura has built programs that bridge the cultural and professional gaps between military and civilian worlds. Her work has contributed to dramatically reducing unemployment rates among veterans by addressing both practical skills and the subtle cultural adjustments necessary for their success in new environments.
Laura's story demonstrates how the skills developed in one career – teaching, mentoring, curriculum design, and navigating complex organizational politics – can become the foundation for success in entirely different sectors. For anyone feeling trapped in their current role or facing seemingly insurmountable career obstacles, her journey offers both inspiration and practical wisdom about finding new paths to purpose.
Have you faced unexpected career transitions? How might your current challenges be preparing you for future opportunities? Join the conversation and share your story of career resilience and reinvention.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The parent bought a gun to school?
For what purpose?
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Um he was having.
I even had a student sellingdrugs out of the band room.
He was not one of my kids, hewas in an orchestra, not an
orchestra kid selling the drugs.
It was an orchestra kid sellingthe drugs.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
What do you get when a music teacher becomes a
military career strategist, acurriculum designer and a change
agent?
You get Laura Butler.
Laura started her journey inthe classroom, pouring into kids
with a passion for music andeducation, but over time her
calling expanded to militaryfamilies, veterans and
professionals in transition.
She's led national programsthat help service members and
(00:47):
spouses translate their skills,find their voice and thrive in
civilian life.
From nonprofits to the big fourconsulting firms, laura's
crafted learning experiencesthat don't just teach, they
transform.
Whether she's designingonboarding for veterans,
coaching kids after school orbuilding bridges between
military and corporate cultures,laura leads with empathy,
strategy and a teacher's heart.
(01:08):
On this episode of so your BossSucks, now what?
We'll follow her journey asshe's redefined leadership one
learning.
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Hi Natalie, Glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
I'm so excited about our conversation.
So the first, the firstquestion is we're talking about
educators this season.
Tell me why you got like, whyyou got into education.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
So I honestly always thought I was going to be a
teacher.
From the time I was,kindergarten age, even even up
until now, teaching always spoketo me.
Being that guide, being thatmentor.
It was something that I alwaysloved.
If I was an expert at something, I wanted to share it with the
(02:11):
world.
So that's why I've always,always wanted to be a teacher
and become an educator.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
It's funny.
From what I've gathered fromall the educators that I've
talked to, it's somethingthey're very, very sure about.
I've talked to people who arein other professions.
Like I kind of stumbled into it.
Most educators are like nope, Iknew from day whatever that I
was going to teach people how todo the things.
Does that about track with you?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah, it's a calling.
To a certain extent.
You either love it or you don't.
And the prep that just needs togo into it, even to become a
teacher especially when we'retalking about public school,
it's substantial Like hell.
I could go be a doctor.
Instead I was a teacher.
That's how much school I got.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
So you love teaching from the gate.
You are actually a musicteacher.
Tell us more about teachingkids music.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
That was a true passion.
Also, a lot of extra hourscompared to what some other
teachers do Say more.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
You sound shady about that, Laura.
What?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
some other teachers do Say more.
You sound shady about that,laura.
Well, I focused on secondaryschool.
Mind you, when I was teachingat a high school, I also had an
elementary music program I wasworking on with one of our local
schools.
I was helping out the jazz bandat the middle school, but it
was also a marching band basedprogram at the high school.
(03:45):
So when you're in marchingseason, it's not just here's
your zero.
Through seventh period it was.
You've got football games, youhave field shows, you have
practices, you have sectionalrehearsals.
It's a lot.
And to top that off, you'rehaving to make sure the music,
the drill, everything is liningup and you have to change things
(04:08):
as you go, based off of how thekids are doing in competitions
so, for those people who don'tknow what sectionals are, um,
they are when you teach thedifferent sections of the band
or the chorus, their parts,before bringing everybody
together.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
I have, yes, I lived this life in high school before
there was Glee.
So for everybody who remembersthe movie, the show, right, I
was a part of a um, oh God, whatdid we call it?
It was a, it was a chorus.
It was a traveling show.
Chorus is a show choir.
That's what it was, show choir,and we did magicals and we did
(04:43):
all of the things we did.
There's no business like shit.
We did all of the things allthroughout high school and it
was.
It was both a class duringschool, but then there was
rehearsal almost every night andit was a lot.
I remember my mom's complaininglike I am not a taxi, and but
those were such formative yearsin my high school days because I
(05:06):
am still in contact with myhigh school music teacher shout
out to Charles Reed, who's nowin Florida.
I'm also still in contact, atleast I think through some
social media, with my middleschool music teacher, uh, chris
Jones, and there was also, uh,lois Stick, but I haven't been
able to find her, but music forme has been just such a big, big
passion, and you've notunderstated it.
(05:27):
For people who are either bandgeeks or choir nerds or whatever
you want to call them, it's alot.
It's a lot of work, it's a lotof energy, but it's also a lot
of formative years from adevelopment perspective.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yeah, same with me in high school as well.
That's when I really knew Iwanted to be a band director,
specifically as a teacher.
It was my involvement in highschool music all the way through
, with orchestra, with marchingband, concert band that's really
what I took away from highschool.
It was the relationships thathappen naturally when you're
(06:06):
traveling around and you'respending so much time with all
these other people.
It felt like a family more thananything and I just I
absolutely loved it.
I loved seeing that feeling whenwe're doing well on field shows
and we're working as a team tocomplete a goal.
(06:28):
And then, you know, when Ibecame a teacher and moving on
and helping out, I was our brassspecialist.
Actually, when I moved overonto the teaching staff, just
seeing the kids' faces light upas they get better and better,
and then they even see how theydo as a group.
It's, it's such a beautifulthing and then just being there
(06:51):
as a guide for them it's not alleven just about music when
you're in the rooms with them.
They have, they've got problems, they've got decisions to make
about the whole rest of theirlife and you're there for them
and it's I love, I love.
High school is my absolutefavorite group.
It's like I've done elementary,done middle school, did high
school, high school kidsabsolute favorite.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
You're a special kind of person to like high school
kids, because I don't think Iliked high school kids when I
was in high school, but I getyou.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
No truth.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
So you find this love , you find this passion.
Talk to us about your first,your very first bad boss.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Oh, I had a few in there.
I the one that stands out to memost.
Um, it's actually when I workedin in banking.
Um, which is kind is a wholeother story, but you know, it
was one of those things whereyou just feel like you're great
(07:52):
at the job.
Everybody loves you whereyou're working, except your boss
.
So when things go wrong, it'syour fault.
If something doesn't get done,whether they asked you to do it
or not, it's your fault.
If something doesn't get done,whether they asked you to do it
or not, it's your fault.
If you got a memo and youchanged a procedure, but you
(08:12):
didn't change it quite the waythey wanted it, and then they
decided to change it backwithout telling you, it's your
fault.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
So it's like but didn't they hire you?
Were they the person that hiredyou?
Speaker 2 (08:21):
No, that may have been the problem too.
I was hired by a differentmanager and had no issues with
her.
She loved me, thought I wasgoing to be a great fit, and
then she left and I was blessedwith someone new and I
(08:42):
definitely was not part of herclique.
So I you know, I just wanted tocome in and do my thing.
I am great with operations, I'mgreat with rules, I'm great at
training other people, which waspart of my job.
And I don't know, she just sawme and instant dislike, so not
(09:06):
sure what the deal was with thatbut she sure made it known she
did not like me.
So how did you know she didn'tlike you, laura?
Well, it was actually funny.
The other supervisors even thatI worked with they're like, so
anytime you're not around, sheactually tells everybody how
(09:27):
much she dislikes you and thatyou're trying to take her job.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
I'm like she was.
She was threatened by youthat's my assumption.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
She told a couple of employees that other people
she's like Laura doesn't talkabout her personal life.
Laura is kind of weird, I don'tknow what, like Laura doesn't
talk to me and it's like we'renot friends.
I'm here to do a job which isfine.
I'm more than friendly.
Everybody that has worked withme that's the one thing they
(10:00):
call out I'm friendly.
I'm a networker, but it was.
It was this strangejuxtaposition of she was
threatened but then she kind ofwanted to talk to me, but then
she didn't, but then she didn'tlike me, so she would just
complain about me whenever Iwasn't around, which, you know,
(10:22):
that's great for anybody else wework with, that I'm the manager
, I'm basically the leader onduty, and she's been talking
about me with everybody.
So that's not a really greatway to build up morale amongst
the team and it undermines whatI'm doing too.
(10:42):
So it was so awkward so.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
I'm curious about your peers right, Because they
would come back and tell youthat she was talking about you.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Yeah, a couple of them I was more friendly with
than others and they'd just belike hey, girl, like I gotta
tell you this because it's notcool and I walked away from it
while this is what's going on.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
That's, that's noble right.
At least them not participatein the commiseration of your
downfall, right, um?
And at the same time, I thinkthis, you know, shout out to
anybody who's willing to take aleader on who's talking about
another person, to at least callout and say, hey, this is
inappropriate, or I'm notcomfortable with this
conversation, because it'sbecause, if she's talking about
(11:37):
you, what makes them think thatthey're not, that they're not a
subject of her conversation aswell?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Exactly.
It just turns into unnecessarydrama and especially when you're
dealing with something likepeople's money, it's like let's
keep it business y'all seriously.
This is important.
This is high risk.
We don't need all this noisegoing on in the background.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
So tell me about more like what are some of the other
kind of what we would callmicroaggressions, like small,
small passive, aggressive thingsthat you've seen or that you
experienced with this leader andwhen did you know it was like
time to like let me just pullthe ripcord and get out of here.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
It, it.
It actually escalated.
It escalated while it was there.
Honestly, it turned into thehey, you didn't do this right
kind of stuff every day.
It was that little bit ofmicromanaging, little bit of
nitpicking going on.
And then I trained somebody in astandard procedure.
(12:37):
We used to make updates prettyoften.
We were kind of a test bed fornew policies where we were, so I
would train everybody.
She'd come up behind me.
That's not right.
And it literally got to thepoint I had to pull out the
memos and hand it to her andthen walk away.
And then she said, well, Idon't want you to do it that way
(12:59):
.
And I said, well, the companydoes.
So it even turned into shecouldn't even say sorry,
couldn't even say, oh, you knowwhat, I must have missed that.
You're absolutely right, we cantalk about it later, kind of
thing.
It was just well, I don't wantthat.
No, no, nothing, no, humility,nothing, and it's just eye
(13:23):
rolling at that point.
Humility, nothing, and it'sjust eye rolling at that point.
And then, if anything happens,you know, somebody was out of
balance, somebody had a questionabout anything.
If I wasn't there immediatelyhandling it, where were you?
Well, helping this person?
Over here or on a break ordoing the 15,000 other things
(13:44):
you assigned to me.
I couldn't get time off anymore.
It got to that point.
What do you mean?
You couldn't get time off.
I would try to take days offand she would give it to
somebody else and not me ifsomebody else requested it.
Even if I put it in enough time, they weren't adhering to my
schedule anymore.
It started turning very muchlike hey, maybe I could just
(14:06):
push you out the door and I canpromote somebody else I'm
friends with.
So it was just it was.
It was very much about likepersonal relationships back
there and it.
It shouldn't have been likethat.
And it's funny you mentionedlike when do you know that you
wanted to leave.
I actually did not leave thecompany.
What I ended up doing is movingcross country and I took my job
(14:33):
with me.
I was able to transfer, got toa new branch, new leadership
that I adored.
Actually, I still chat with oneof those managers periodically.
I love her dearly.
And that kind of bad behavioreven followed me 2,700 miles
(14:53):
away.
What do?
Speaker 1 (14:54):
you mean.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
And well, so my old branch got in trouble for an NSF
check, basically.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Insufficient funds.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yes, came back from a business.
It was something that I hadlooked at, talked to somebody on
the phone.
They told me to put it through.
I did my due diligence on itwhen it went through because I
used to approve transactions andit came back to approve
transactions and it came backand, for whatever reason or
another, they're saying, okay,well, the branch is going to
have to, it's going to show upon your report that this
(15:31):
happened.
They tried to transfer it to mynew branch that I started with.
They had nothing to do with it,nothing going on with it.
It wasn't even anything thatwas my fault.
I followed procedure and theywere still even trying to
transfer that negative that wasshowing up on the report over to
me and my new branch that'ssome kind of special.
(15:59):
Yeah, and my new manager beingthe fierce woman she was said
absolutely not down, laid down.
The law branch manager backedher up and they backed off and I
never heard from them again so.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
So let me just get the chronology of behavior
straight, to make sure Iunderstood what I heard.
First she was trying to poisonthe well against you and your
peers, then there was themicroaggressions, then turned to
micromanagement, then juststraight mean girl right
straight mean girl to trying toscapegoat you after you had left
(16:35):
yes so it's an interestingstandard progression of that
behavior, right?
I would also say that if you'veever left a job where your
leader didn't like you, ninetimes out of 10, they're going
to blame you for something.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Oh, that was the other people, that was her.
Oh, yeah, so I know, a lot oftimes people have not left jobs
because they're like, well, if Ileave, I know they're going to
blame this on me.
Leave, leave, leave, leave,leave anyways.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Yeah, they're going to blame it on you regardless.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
So so you, you went to this branch and you know you
had been in education before youwent to the banking space, so
did you go.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
What happened?
It was an odd circumstance.
So I was teaching while I wasstill in college, finishing off
my bachelor's degree, working onmy teaching credential when I
was in graduate school.
So I was part time for most ofthat, although part time being a
band director, we know, is nota normal day it's still 12, 15,
(17:41):
18 hours in some cases.
It's still 12, 15, 18 hours insome cases.
But when I got my teachingcredential, I was close to
getting it.
By this point I'd actually movedto a new city.
I was starting to apply forteaching jobs in LA County
actually, and I was interviewing.
I was getting a lot of headway.
I even got hired by a middleschool and I was super excited
(18:07):
to start.
I was working this other retailjob just to make ends meet.
We all have bills.
So I figured this is great, I'mgoing to end up starting at
this new middle school.
And during the summer they saidoops, sorry, we're actually
going to have to let you goalready.
We lost our funding.
So you know, here I am withthis other retail job.
(18:32):
I had a significant other thatworked in banking and he had
worked in banking when he was inschool too and he's like this
is great, they work with yourschedule, it pays better than
what you're doing and you'd begreat at it.
Go into banking.
He's like you're a rule person,you're an operations person,
you got this.
So that's actually what broughtme over into banking for a few
years is I was kind of thatwaiting period of just trying to
(18:56):
get my own band program,something that was mine and
would get my teaching credentialcleared.
Because everybody starts onthat preliminary teaching
credential, because everybodystarts on that preliminary
teaching credential, you have tocome in full time, you have to
have your own program, otherwiseit's never going to get cleared
.
So that was my big focus Payingmy bills while I tried to get my
(19:18):
foot in the door and get hiredon somewhere.
It was not a good time.
We were getting into that.
2006, 2007, 2008, especially at07-08, when the market crashed
out, is when I was trying tobreak into teaching and I was
not a core curriculum teacher.
So when we start to talk aboutwhat are they going to cut oh,
(19:41):
it's me to cut, oh, it's me,it's me.
So that's when I ended upworking working in banking and
then said I even made a crosscountry trip to get a little
change scenery and change somestuff up in my life and even
applied for teaching jobs out ofstate too.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
But you did have an opportunity, though, to go back
into teaching, and at some pointyou almost had your own.
What happened there, like whathappened when you had the
opportunity to have your own orat least you could see the end
of the tunnel to getting yourown, your own band.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
End of the tunnel.
Initially, the school I hadbeen working at for years, I do.
The band director was like youknow, this would be great,
you've been here, I'm going toretire.
I want you to take the programover.
Um, ideal, the band directorwas like you know, this would be
great, you've been here, I'mgonna retire.
I, I want you to take theprogram over from me.
It's just, it was just gonna beyou finish off the credential
graduates, whatever, like,whatever you need to do to teach
(20:36):
in california.
He's like great, get it doneand I'm gonna retire and you can
have the program.
Well, he didn't.
He didn't retire, for it was atleast another 10 years.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Um, you said it.
You said a decade.
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
It was 10 years, so I don't think that's what he
intended, but that's whathappened.
I checked in with him everyyear for four years to see hey,
like, are you tired, can I comeback, can I take over the
program, can I apply?
Never happened.
(21:16):
So that's when I startedapplying to other schools For
secondary school.
Middle school is usually thegood point to try to get in if
you don't have an in.
So that's what I was trying,but it was at that point.
It was so hard to break intoanything and if you got hired
you didn't stay hired.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
So did you say anything to him about?
You know his you can't evencall it gatekeeping Like he, he
was the, he was like he wastaking up the seat.
I'm sure he was doing afabulous job.
But did you say like, hey man,like I'm lingering here and
you're, you're not moving.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
It was just kind of simple.
I'm so sorry I can't do it yet.
I'm not in a place I could doit.
I need to go another year ortwo, Like I'll keep in touch
with you.
So it was.
It was kind of those simplepieces.
I think it was his ownfinancial situation, basically,
(22:12):
and he wasn't ready.
I honestly think he just wasn'tready to leave.
He always talked about I'mtired and I think I need to stop
, and he was talking aboutmoving himself.
And he was talking about movinghimself and it just he just
kept going and going and goinguntil finally, finally he
retired.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
What would you say to the people who are in those
positions?
Because it's very interesting.
It's not like corporatesituations where you may be able
to move to a different place.
Like this is the job.
It's the only job in the system, right?
Especially if you're in aschool system that only has one
high school or hasn't just a few.
Like you, don't have manyoptions.
What would you say to peoplewho've been in that position?
(22:55):
How do you not get got?
Speaker 2 (23:01):
It's so complicated dealing with something like that
because, even like most jobsout there, the hidden job market
, networking that's always goingto be king.
If you've got your sights seton particular districts, it's
just that it's so limited to whothey can bring in and how and
why.
They're always going to bringin people they know.
So ingratiating yourself isgreat, but that's not always
(23:22):
going to bring in people theyknow.
So ingratiating yourself isgreat, but that's not always
going to get you everywhere.
We had four high schools in ourdistrict.
We had about a dozen middleschools and how many teachers
did we have out there that weretrying to break in?
So this is the most difficultthing, especially for specialty
teachers.
So you know, this is the mostdifficult thing, especially for
specialty teachers getting theirfoot in the door.
(23:42):
You really have to thinkoutside the box.
A if you're going to do it inpublic or private school, at
that point, just to startgetting your hours in If you're
credentialed it has to be publicschool you may have to jump
ship and move, basically to beable to get in somewhere.
I've had friends of mine thathave literally had to move to
(24:04):
another state.
They finished everything off.
They couldn't get full-timeroles.
They kept getting brought in aslong-term subs, which is
another fabulous tactic of someof the districts.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Why is?
Speaker 2 (24:15):
that they don't have to pay you as much.
You're getting your hourly andno benefits at that point for
long-term sub.
So and then you turn around.
It's like am I coming back nextyear, but for a California
teaching credential?
That doesn't count toward yourtime.
You only have five years to getthat credential cleared,
(24:41):
jumping in and have somethingfull time ready to go.
You don't have your mentorteacher, you're not doing your
extra 30 units of collegecredits you need in that two
years.
It's never going to get clearedand they're not going to extend
it.
So that was the conundrum thata lot of us were in, especially
at that point.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
So, yeah, I can't even tell you how many friends
of mine I'm like if you reallywant to do this, if this is your
lifeblood and your passion andyou know it is hard, hard work,
getting through all that to beable to teach in the California
school system but you may not beable to stay in California.
You may have to move down toSan Diego, you may have to move
(25:17):
up to the Bay Area, you may haveto go somewhere else.
A lot of friends of mine endedup in North Carolina, Texas,
Florida, Minnesota, taking onteaching jobs so they could stay
teachers.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
It seems such an odd situation, considering there's a
lack of teachers in thepipeline and it gets worse year
over year.
It does, and the the financialsituation for educators is also
not attractive.
It just seems strange to hearthat, like you had people who
(25:51):
want to do the job and thereweren't places for them to go.
It just seems very odd.
Talk to me about um.
We've been talking about thetrifecta of bosses that teachers
have, this idea of theadministration, you know the
federal government, right, thefederal and state government,
the local administration and theparents.
(26:12):
And if you want to, you know,make it a quadruplet, you can
call the kids a part of the badboss group.
Talk to me about your, yourengagement or your experience
with, with local administrationand how it affected your ability
to, or your experience in,teaching.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah, and honestly, the kids were the best part of
the whole equation.
Hands down, our localadministration.
We had a really supportiveprincipal for a while.
When you're talking about amusic program, it's very
expensive to run them,especially when you're
considering there's busesinvolved, uniforms involved,
(26:51):
instrument repairs just all thelittle things that you need to
be able to keep a program going.
To keep a program going At thetime we needed nearly 60 grand
actually to keep the programafloat and we were only
receiving $12,000 a year fromthe actual school system.
So a lot of fundraising inthere, a lot of everything, a
(27:14):
lot of begging foradministrators.
I'm going to say this out loud.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
For those of you who always wonder why the kids are
asking you for money at school,this is the reason Help little
Bobby, help little Daquan gethis trumpet or keep the things
that they need.
We used to sell poinsettias.
We would sing at Christmas timeand sell poinsettias for like
30 bucks a poinsettia, and wewould give a carol and we would
deliver them.
(27:38):
It was a beautiful experience.
A carol and they would, wewould deliver them.
It was a beautiful experienceand we had to do a lot of
fundraising to even be able togo to the competitions to get
the notoriety to help the cop.
The school it's, it's a circle.
So y'all, oh yeah, support thearts at your school, support the
pta, help them raise money,because nobody has money for
real donate money buy thosecandy bars, get those car washes
(27:59):
.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
I I think I was doing the boosters myself, the band
director.
It was at least 12 differentfundraisers every year, even at
our concerts.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
So we're close to Nations Ford High School, which
actually over the last I thinkit might have been seven or
eight years they performed inthe Macy's parade.
They're very well known, thecompetitive.
Every year they sell mattresses, which I think is the weirdest
thing, but it is really.
This is strange, but they makea ton of money anyway.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
That's neither here I've never heard of that.
That's hey, if it works, itworks.
Um, so I mean I I say all thatto to kind of segue into some of
the administrative issues saidwe had one great principal
you're talking about all thestuff with funding we had one
great guy that at least wedidn't have to pay for buses
(28:52):
anywhere.
He made sure we were part ofthe athletics budget.
The athletics departmenttotally agreed with it.
They're like yes, we need theband at football games.
So it wasn't even a question,it was something that had always
been.
And then we got a new principaland basically just try blowing
(29:12):
up the budget and it's like, oh,you can't use that anymore.
If the band wants to play atthe football games, it's coming
out of your budget.
If the band wants to play atthe football games, it's coming
out of your budget.
So I was really thankful andthat my band director, as a
mentor, as the head of theprogram, it didn't fly with him.
He would really put a hard lineout there.
(29:33):
Um, when we were gettingadministrative pushback and he
said fine, we don't go tofootball games, end of story,
we're not doing parades anymore,we're not, we're not going
football games.
He's like we're gonna go tofootball games, end of story.
We're not doing parades anymore, we're not going to football
games.
He's like we're going to go tofield shows, we're going to do
stuff for us and we're not doingstuff for the school or
district anymore.
And he said, boom, mic drop.
And they came around prettyquickly after that and said,
(29:56):
okay, you can stay on theathletics budget, because then
they had the entire athleticsdepartment breathing down
administration's neck going.
We need the band there.
What are we going to be theonly high school in Southern
California that doesn't have aband at these football games?
How bad does that look?
And we get the crowd going.
Come on, it's band and footballgame.
(30:16):
That's a given.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
That's American.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Exactly so.
It was little things like that's, that's a given, that's
that's america.
Yeah, exactly so, you know itwas.
It was little things like that.
Then they tried to find otherways to nickel and dime.
I was going up and going up tothe office.
You have those great big xeroxcopier machines that are still
in all the schools.
We got to copy music for thekids.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
I have a little code that I can put in to copy some
music but, by the way, I alwaysthought it was funny how we copy
music at school and it's liketotal copyright infringement.
Oh yeah, totally.
I still have copies of sheetmusic in this house from high
school and college.
You have to and Hal Johnsonknows y'all stole his music
(31:02):
right like no, you have to.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
The kids lose all the originals and you're not paying
three dollars a copy for oh, no, no, no, no, that's funny.
Yeah, so I.
It got to the point.
I was going up there,principals looking at me like we
do in the copy room again, andthey actually turned down my
like on my code.
They were only letting me do150 copies a month Up there in
(31:31):
the office.
Somebody like changed something.
How many?
Speaker 1 (31:34):
pieces were in the van.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
One year we had 185.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
185 pieces in the van .
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yeah, we had 185 kiddos in our marching band and
I was only able to do 150 copiesa month.
So how many?
Speaker 1 (31:51):
I'm just going to do the math, the routine.
How many songs would you havein a routine?
Let's see for any given givenfield show four or five.
So five times 180, and that'snot including, like, the backup
song.
So let's just say you did tryseven, you took seven songs even
though you only did five, rightbut this is just field show.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
This isn't even our football games, anything else,
just the field show, like fourto five songs, depending on what
year it was so you needed 1295copies, and they let you have 10
of that yep, good job, I wasgreat.
All the other teachers weresharing their codes with me
because they weren't using thecopier I'm here for it.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
I am here for you being being creative and getting
your um, getting what youneeded for your kids, and many
teachers do the same.
Did you ever confront theadministration or did your your
former band director?
Is this the blocker guy thatdidn't move?
Well, at least he was.
He was helpful.
That's good.
We like him.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
He was, he was, he was a good dude.
He was, he was a great mentor,great band director.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
He had some.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
he had some stuff where he didn't leave.
But I learned a lot being theretoo that I took with me and all
throughout my career, so I cansay that but did he ever go toe
to toe with them?
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Like, listen, we're not doing this.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
He did on the copier piece and then she basically
just standardized it across allthe departments so it didn't
look like she was just pickingon us.
But then she also said stopsharing your codes with the band
he.
He said there's certain battles, it's just not worth it.
So we just ended up buying alaser copier and popped it in
(33:38):
the band room and told nobodyand basically if you weren't
performing arts, you weren'tallowed to use it.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
What's so fascinating about this conversation is when
you look at the line items in abudget because I've done this
in other organizations and ifyou're looking at the copy
machine as the source of whereyou're going to save copious
amounts of money, you're doingit wrong.
You're absolutely doing itwrong.
Like ah, you just got to do it.
Oh, we're absolutely doing itwrong.
Like oh, yeah, okay, crazy yeahit was.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
It was funny.
It was just like what else can,can we do?
It got to the point, thoughit's like the principal was
there for a couple years.
I feel like things started tosettle a bit and it she'd even
walk up and say, good job, band,I like how you played, and then
like, walked off.
I'm like this is progress, thisis progress, so let's roll with
(34:27):
it.
It did finally taper off for awhile, but you know it felt like
anytime you got somebody new inthere anywhere in that like
upper level administration,they'd always question every
line item in the budget.
And, you know, at the same timewe had stuff going on with our
district office and our board,and you know I was there for a
(34:49):
teacher strike because they wereworking on cutting benefits.
It was, it was tumultuous, mymy first few years when I was
actually at the school, I was ona picket line.
Few years when I was actuallyat the school I was on a picket
line.
So I saw a lot in just a shortamount of time with what was
going on there and, of course,the benefits.
Everything.
It even affected the teacher Iwas working for.
(35:10):
So I was at board meetings andspeaking and being my little
young spitfire self.
I'm here for it.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
I'm here for it.
So talk to me.
Let's move from theadministration and talk about
the parents.
Okay, in these conversations,I've heard a ton of things.
Tell me about some of theheadaches that you had
experienced in the space whileyou were dealing with parents
and what you would have wantedfrom them instead of what you
got.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
You know, I don't want to say the parents were my
least favorite part of teaching,but honestly I think it was,
and especially as a parentmyself now I'm like I don't want
to be one of those parents, sowhat?
Speaker 1 (35:56):
is one of those parents.
What did they do?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
We would have times where you you know you send
report cards out.
Kids aren't doing too hot withtheir grades and it's banned.
So you have parents go.
What's going on with my kid?
I'm dropping them off forrehearsal.
They're.
They're in class.
What's going on?
It's your fault, why.
Why are they getting a d inband?
Why are they getting a c?
Your?
Speaker 1 (36:18):
mind, don't practice, but two times a week.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
That's why they don't at all and you might be
dropping them off, but they'renot coming to class, okay, so,
yeah, so it was alwaysinteresting having those
conversations as to, hey, thisis why their grades are not
awesome, and then the parentsturning around and blaming you
and going to administration.
(36:41):
I had kids that used to bringstuff that they couldn't have in
class, like it's probably thisis definitely going to date me,
like the old, like Game BoyAdvance, psps, like they're
bringing them in class, likewe're rehearsing, and I,
literally I remember this littleclarinet player, third row, and
this kid sitting back there inthe middle of rehearsal playing
(37:01):
SPSB.
So I took it away.
I had a little box in the officethat you know, put stuff in it,
lock it up.
It was contraband and theparents would actually have to
come in and get it from me.
I wouldn't give it back to thestudent, and the amount of times
that I'd have parents call mewe'll just give it back.
I'm like, no, this isn't policy.
(37:22):
You're going to need to come inat some point and I need you to
sign a form and then I can giveit back to you to make sure it
doesn't come back to school.
The yelling, I got it left meover the phone.
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Yelling at me.
They're yelling at you fortheir disobedient kid over the
phone oh yeah, yelling at youfor their disobedient kid?
Speaker 2 (37:45):
yes, they are.
Um, I had one section this isprobably the worst thing that
happened to me in band.
We had a new student come infrom a different school kid had
his his own issues that we weretaking care of.
But we had three other boys inband that decided to pick him up
after a field show, take himinto a bathroom and hold his
(38:05):
head in a toilet.
Yeah, mind you, he was going toget suspended from band anyways
.
He was trying to throw ourscores at a field show to give
his old high school an advantage.
That was a whole other issue,but the kids decided to do
vigilante justice.
So I have this brawl going on.
I got this kid with a head in atoilet and now, when we get
(38:28):
back to the school, I have allthese sets of parents that are
all in and are all fighting withus, and we had one dad that
fully agreed with what his sondid, given this kid, trying to
drown him in a toilet, and theywere yelling at me about it like
how, how dare you punish my sonfor trying to drown this other
student?
Um, that was probably, well,that's not the worst thing that
(38:52):
happened, but I, that one stickswith me.
I I even had a student sellingdrugs out of the band room.
He was not one of my kids, hewas in an orchestra.
Um, and that's your kid sellingthe drugs it was, it was a, it
was an orchestra kid on thedrugs, um and it was, it was
awful.
I mean, he got in trouble, hegot arrested.
We I had to report it.
(39:14):
He was doing it out of theoffice.
He, he hid drugs in the couchum, that was in the office.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
I mean, what was it?
I gotta know.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
I'm very curious he was hiding marijuana in the
couch well doing eight balls inhigh school we're not 100% what
some of the stuff was.
I'm by no means a drug expert,but I'm like, oh, that's baggies
of drugs.
So you know I had.
It's like I felt terrible.
(39:47):
I really liked the kid.
He had some stuff going on athome but that's how he was
getting money.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Hey, he needed to be able to play Chopin man.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
That's how he's buying his cello.
I don't know, but his dadactually came in and threatened
to kill me because I reportedhis son.
He actually threatened tomurder me.
That would not be the firsttime I've had a parent threaten
to murder me too, which is whichis in the world is going on
(40:19):
where you were teaching I.
You know I I worked at a veryyou know we kind of talk about
like title title one, schoolsversus I.
This was in an affluent area.
I large school, decent funding,a lot of extracurriculars we
call that entitlement yeah, I, Iwould, I would, um, I would
(40:43):
definitely say so.
I was the garbage teacher thatturned his kid in, so I didn't
deserve to live according to him.
Yeah, it's great, I, you knowit's.
I'll kind of get back into thisa little bit more later.
I used to joke with my, with myhusband.
He's in the military and I'mlike teachers public school
(41:04):
teachers, high school I'm likewe got PTSD Y'all.
We had dangerous jobs,borderline, even some of the
stuff versus what I saw, versuswhat he saw.
So teaching's dangerous.
It is a calling.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
Otherwise it's tricky to do.
You gotta love it.
Talk to you, gotta love thekids.
Talk to me about post-traumaticstress syndrome because, or
disorder because you, you, younow work with veterans, right,
so it's, this is not foreign toyou.
Let's, let's go here like what?
Why do you say teachers haveptsd?
Speaker 2 (41:36):
a lot of what we deal with, and so it's not even just
that was traumatic havingparents coming at me like that.
We've got threats of violencefrom kids, from parents.
We have kids bringing weaponsto school.
I had a parent that brought agun to school and was up on our
(41:57):
gym.
It turned into a whole thing.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
The parent brought a gun to school.
For what purpose?
Speaker 2 (42:06):
um, he was having a mental health crisis.
Some relationship related, wentto his kid's school with a with
a weapon, so but stuff likethat happens.
I even had we had a band kidactually that was afraid of a
final coming up.
He didn't study enough and heand his friends planted a fake
bomb at the school.
(42:28):
That year we had four bombthreats.
One of them was real.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Wow, we just used to pull the fire alarm.
Laura, like what happened tojust pulling the fire alarm.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Ah, it doesn't work anymore.
I mean, that happened enoughtoo, let me tell you.
But it would really escalatequickly and just trying to get
to the kids and look for thesigns before the stuff happened.
But yet again, sometimes it'snot even the kids, it's the
parents threatening violence onother children and teachers at
the school.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Do you feel like you were adequately prepared for the
what I'll call the bad bosseryof parents right Trying to meet
their expectations or their, youknow, whatever crazy they
brought to your doorstep thatday?
Speaker 2 (43:13):
You can only be prepared to a certain extent.
Yeah, we talk about it.
We talk about it when we'regoing through our teaching
programs at school.
I was in a great teachingprogram.
I was at a great college,talked about it with my mentor,
you know.
He even went over issues thathe had seen with the parents and
how he handled situations.
But I don't think you couldever be fully prepared.
(43:34):
It's like going through bootcamp.
You're learning all the skills,you're kind of getting
indoctrinated into the role andbeing a public servant.
You go to school for it foryears.
You get your time in theclassroom, you do your student
teaching, but then here you are,you're dropped in.
It's fight or flight and youjust have to take things as they
(43:55):
come.
You never really know whatyou're going to walk into day to
day.
You prepare as much as you can,you've got lesson plans, you've
got curriculum, you know yourkids, but you just never, never,
really know what's going tohappen.
I mean it's kind of fun aboutteaching.
You've got the organized chaosaround you and you got all these
great kids and all theselearning opportunities.
(44:16):
But then there's the dark sideof it too, just working with so
many people on a day-to-daybasis, especially a difficult
age group.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
Yeah, it's absolutely beyond me.
Having death threats and thingslike that.
I can't imagine and I wonder.
I've heard teachers on our showsay that the first year that
the kids got of me was my worstversion of teaching, because I
just wasn't prepared.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
And that's usually how your first year, everybody
will tell you it's just do yourbest, fake it till you make it.
I just had the sameconversation with my
brother-in-law.
Actually, he just started, thiswas his first year as an
English teacher and he's like Idon't feel prepared and I'm like
I'm going to tell you whateverybody told me as I was
(45:08):
coming in Fake it till you makeit.
Be the authority in the roomand just do your best.
Try to rely on other mentors asmuch as you can.
Know who the good teachers are,know who the bad teachers are,
know who the snakes are, andjust roll with it, because
really that's all you can do.
You get as prepared as possibleand plan for different
(45:32):
scenarios, and things never workout the way you think they will
.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
So, laura, you said something and I want to dig in
this really quick before wepivot to the next part of our
conversation.
You said know who the goodteachers are, know who the bad
teachers are, know who thesnakes are.
What's the difference betweenthe bad teacher, which I would
assume is like somebody who justis not a good teacher, like
they're not good at their craft,versus they're checked out?
(45:55):
Which is the snake?
Talk to me about the snakes thesnakes are everywhere.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
I I didn't think I'd find so many in the teaching
profession, but it's.
It's people that are ambitious,or you know, they've got a
piece of the pie.
They're non-core in some casesthey're non-core teachers and
they're fighting for a lot ofthe same funding you are.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
Non-core teachers being people who don't teach
science, math, technology,English.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
Mostly math, mostly math and English, Some of the
other.
That's usually what core isconsidered nowadays.
Even social studies and scienceisn't even necessarily core
person that tears you down withyour colleagues.
It's the person that tries toingratiate themselves with
(46:49):
administration that's going togo.
Oh well, I know this, I knowthis about this person, so you
should give me their money nextyear.
It's that kind of person.
So we all know who snakes arein our careers.
Unfortunately, you find them inthe teaching profession too.
Bad teachers, it's simple.
They're checked out.
They're not doing great thingsin their room.
They haven't changed theircurriculum in 30 years.
(47:11):
They just stand up there, writea bunch of stuff on the board
and then tell the kids to go dotheir homework.
That I can deal with.
It's people that are pretendingto be helpful but are two-faced
.
So I've seen them not just,obviously, in teaching, but
across all the different rolesthat I've had.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
So you mentioned the different roles.
Talk to us, because you've gonefrom teaching little kids to
what you call little big kids,right?
So little kids to little bigkids.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
Oh gosh, I shouldn't say that out loud.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
Having been in the training and development field
for as long as I have, I totallyunderstand it.
But talk to us about why thatmight be at least marginally
true for you.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
I raise a kid at heart when you're training them
At least you hope they are,because they'll grow as you're
teaching them.
No, I mean it was aninteresting pivot and it was
something that actually came outof necessity.
So I became a male spouse.
I married a service member andit was very A military spouse,
(48:19):
so army spouse.
It was very tricky keeping yourteaching credentials going
across state lines.
You're teaching credentialsgoing across state lines and for
those of us that move regularlywith the military, staying at
that level of public servant,keeping credentials common even.
You know, I'd mentioned beforemaking those networking
connections to be able to get ina school with limited roles,
(48:42):
it's really difficult for us tobe able to do that moving from
state to state.
So you know we'd initiallymoved to.
I was in North Carolina for alittle while, had a good
opportunity, had some time tonetwork in, got offered a job at
a high school.
Actually I'm like great, I'mgoing back into teaching.
They're converting mycredentials from California to
(49:04):
North Carolina.
Everything seemed perfect.
California to North Carolina,everything seemed perfect.
And then my husband got orders.
He got a document from the armythat said hey, guess what?
Y'all are going to go move toTexas Congratulations, that's
not disruptive at all.
Oh, not at all.
Not, not, not at all.
So, yeah, no, we, we ended uphaving to move.
(49:27):
I had to turn it down.
I was still working, you knowkind of that corporate America
banking, banking type stuff whenwe were there.
So I'm like, well, at least Ihave this, I should be able to
take it with me while I figureout how to be a teacher in Texas
.
And that never happened.
Actually, I could get mycredentials converted when I got
there.
I was being forced to go backto school and do everything over
(49:50):
for my graduate program.
I was going to have to start mycredentialing process over
again.
They just I basically got toldwe don't want teachers from
California here.
If you, if you want to teach,you're going to have to go
through what Texas wants you todo.
And it was hard to network.
You know, in the local area,you know we were around Fort
Bliss at the time and every HRperson I talked to as I got
(50:11):
there they're like are you aUTEP graduate?
And I said no, I'm a militaryspouse, I'm not from here.
And they went okay, and theywere totally uninterested and
they were opening a ton of highschools.
At the time, I'm just like,okay, well, this isn't working
out for me, it's just not so.
(50:32):
I kicked around for a littlewhile.
I had an existential crisis forprobably about a year, like
what am I going to do?
What am I going to do next?
Like my whole life has revolvedaround this.
I want to be a teacher and itwas probably a narrow focus, I
would think, because I'm likeI'm always going to teach high
school teaching music.
This is what I love.
This is what I wanted to do.
(50:52):
This is what I wanted to dosince I was a little kid and an
opportunity came up for me onbase.
I got connected in with somegroups on the military
installation and there's there'sa program called Army Community
Service and they got a bunch ofjobs posted up for spouses.
And someone reached out to meand said hey, you know, the
(51:15):
Department of Defense has thisnew program for transitioning
service members.
It's called the TAP program.
They've had it for some time.
They've revamped it.
There's a contractor that theygot this new revamped contract
and they need facilitators.
They need some careertransition trainers in there,
and we think you'd be a good fitfor it with your education
(51:35):
degree and your experience and Isaid, oh, you know, this is.
This is interesting.
I'm like I love to.
I love to get back to themilitary.
I've had family militarist.
My spouse is in the military.
I'm now a military spouse.
I'm like this sounds reallyinteresting.
I've had experience hiring.
I've had experience out therehustling and trying to get jobs.
(51:55):
I'm like I think I can actuallygive some really solid advice
to people that are getting out.
So I applied, I got the job andreally it was history from
there.
It was something I excelled atand got better at very quickly
to the point that we had servicemembers coming from all over
(52:18):
the military need assistancetransitioning out of the
military.
Like what's the?
Speaker 1 (52:22):
point of these programs.
Just quickly for the folks whomay not understand why.
Speaker 2 (52:38):
Sure, it's difficult making transitions for any of us
to different careers, and youthink about somebody that has
spent time in the military.
It's very specific what they doin their roles.
They don't need resumes andmeetings to promote.
They have their own processes,policies and procedures.
(53:01):
It's individuals that have gonethrough a boot camp.
They've gone through militarytraining.
And then I'll even focus on oneparticular group.
People have been in the military10 years or more.
It's a big change for many ofthem.
They don't remember what it waslike being a civilian hired.
(53:27):
They have service-connecteddisabilities and they were asked
to leave the military or theydid it of their own volition.
Things are constantly changingin civilian environments.
When it comes to getting a job,they need help.
They need to know what theyneed to do to write a resume,
how they need to network, whatinterviews are going to look
like.
Otherwise, they're not going tohave a successful transition.
(53:49):
It's so important for them to beable to have that support and
to give them a leg up, becausewhat we were finding before
these programs existedunemployment rates.
It was varied between branchesof service, but we were seeing
unemployment rates 17%, 18%, 19%for service members going from
(54:10):
the military out into thecivilian world because they
spoke their own language, theyhad their own jargon, they
weren't even sure what theywanted to do or how it was going
to correlate or translate,based off of where most of their
experience has been.
So that's where these programsreally became key.
So that's where these programsreally became key and they've
been running about 15 years nowreally, really heavily and
(54:34):
they've only gotten better andnow their unemployment rates are
sitting pretty much in witheverybody else's.
But that's why.
It's because this extra leg upand help and training is getting
them ready for that transition.
Speaker 1 (54:50):
Yeah, when I was at one of my first employers I had
the opportunity of running anapprenticeship program with
disabled vets to help transitionand I would say, beyond the
skills which are needed rightthe transfer, or at least
learning what new skills theyneed to learn, it was the
cultural transition that wasimportant, like understanding,
because military politics arenot like corporate politics and
(55:13):
the hierarchy may not be asrespected in a corporate space
as it requires in a militaryspace.
So I fully appreciate theservice that you've been able to
give in a very meaningful andaltruistic sense, not that it
wasn't good for the little kids,but specifically for our vets.
(55:36):
I really applaud you for that.
So, laura, talk to me aboutkind of how organizational
culture affected your kind ofexperiences.
Speaker 2 (55:46):
So I've been thankful as I've gone through and have
been more active in the militarycommunity.
I've I've gone into othercompanies that have respected
veteran culture, militarycommunity culture, military
spouses.
So you know, after I was, I wasworking my government
contracting role, doing thefacilitation piece.
(56:08):
I rolled into the nonprofitsector and yet we talk about
those transition services tohelp ease individuals the skill
sets, the culture, the necessarypieces of information they need
to be successful in their nextrole.
That's actually what I wasdoing with an organization
called well, that program'scalled Onward Opportunity and it
(56:29):
was with the Institute forVeterans and Military Families.
Everything that we did wasgeared toward the military
community and upskilling andcertifications for those
individuals to make them morevaluable as they transition to
civilian careers.
They upskilled if they were aveteran or it was a male spouse
that was trying to upskill orchange careers themselves.
Because I can go on all dayabout male spouses and the
(56:52):
issues that we face while we'rewith our service members and
having to travel around thecountry and the world Because we
have to put our careers on holda lot.
So you know, and even talkingabout my most recent role, I'll
just say I was with the big four.
Now y'all probably can check myLinkedIn anyways, but running
(57:13):
military programs there, youknow, focusing on skills that
individuals need for corporateAmerica that are going to be
value.
And even once veterans enteredour company, we had our own
program for veteran onboarding.
It was part of my portfolio andyou brought up a great piece
about the culture learning a newlanguage.
(57:33):
How do you communicate withothers, because now you have
civilians around you?
How do you get the militaryjargon out?
How do you be diplomatic inyour approach and matrix
organizations?
How are you going to networkwhen you don't have rank and an?
A tape on your chest?
So it's all of those littlepieces, and I love being in
(57:54):
organizations that that supportthe military, that have these
programs, that have theseopportunities, because that's
that's also.
I mean, teaching is where myheart is.
Kids are where my heart is, butI've been a part of the
military community for so long.
That's the core of my heart,along with education, training
and teaching.
So anywhere that I could dothat, that's what's important to
(58:17):
me, and those organizationsthat are supporting the military
are also what's going to beimportant to me.
Speaker 1 (58:24):
But talk to me about a bad boss in this field right
now.
You've gotten out of theschools.
Give us you know you've learned.
Now you are long in the toothwhen it comes to your career.
So, like now, what have youfaced in your working tenure in
terms of bad bosses?
Speaker 2 (58:45):
Oh man, this gets tricky because I'm like I'm
still in the space.
Are they going to?
Speaker 1 (58:51):
know what I'm talking about.
We will change the names toprotect the innocent and the
guilty.
Uh, and we don't even have totalk about the company because
everybody will go look at yourlinkedin.
But like, give me like you knowhere's the scenario.
Here's what caught me off guard, Like what you know, what
sticks out for you?
Speaker 2 (59:14):
I don't even know if I can.
It wasn't even necessarily adirect boss.
The difficulty you findyourself in when you're doing
roles like this is a politicalnature of it.
Not everybody has the bestinterest at heart for the
service member.
You're having to partner withfederal agencies.
There's specific structures onthe installation that you you
(59:35):
know when I started as acontractor.
You have to work with theseindividuals.
It's part of your contract,it's part of the structure of
the transition programs andthat's more of where I had my
issues.
I've honestly had amazing bossesin most of my career when
(59:55):
dealing with transition programs.
There's been things here andthere that I'm like get the
little eye roll in there.
But it was the bigger issueworking within the contractor
ecosystem and dealing withcertain federal employees that
you could.
They were the boss, whetherthey were mine directly or not.
That didn't.
They tried to make things asdifficult as possible for you to
(01:00:20):
be able to do your role.
A lot of pushback and it's yetagain unnecessary drama
associated with the programs.
Like why is this so hard tomake sure we have our books in
the room when we get in there onTuesday morning?
Like why is this an issue?
Go get them yourself.
Well see, let's talk about howthis contract works and who has
(01:00:44):
the business insurance.
Okay, and having to sit hereand navigate some of these
political firestorms because, atthe same time, you're also
representing a company that'sgoing to put a bid on this
contract again in a few years.
So it's not like, hey, I'm justa facilitator, coming into this
space as a guest, getting theseservice members through to meet
(01:01:07):
at least minimum requirements oftheir military transition and
being as informative as I can.
I'm now having to navigate thespace of other contractors.
We're working with the GSemployees, the heads of the TAP
program at the installation, theDepartment of Labor who we were
under contract for with DOLvets.
It's a firestorm, it's aminefield, and making sure you
(01:01:31):
have the right people in placethat have an understanding of
how to talk to people in theright way, but also remaining
firm and making sure theseservice members are getting what
they need to.
It's all key.
So I talked about it a littlebit more broadly.
I'm like, hopefully I made thatanonymous enough.
Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
I will say that in a lot of these situations, both in
three-letter organizations inthe government and not, you will
find people who power trip justbecause they can, they can you
will find people who aren't goodpartners right.
I think one of the things thatI've learned in my career is
(01:02:10):
just trying to createpartnerships between people to
show that the value we'rebringing is a benefit to them
rather than you're doing me afavor by helping me with the
thing that you're supposed to bedoing in the first place and
that, yes, I am here to serve,but I'm not a servant.
Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
And I'm also not a doormat.
Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
That part Right, and that's really what I meant, Not
that I don't have a service.
You know servant mentality andas much as what we're not going
to do is diminish me and thethings that I can do to make you
feel better.
Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
Yeah, and that was the problematic aspect of it too
.
It's just, it was unnecessaryand I'm resilient and I could
take care of it.
I tried to protect my people.
I worked with at theinstallation directly, but it
was difficult and we would havepeople leave their role.
They're just like I can't dothis.
It's unnecessary.
I can't do this.
(01:03:02):
The schedule changes, theclassroom changes, the pushback,
gs employees yelling at us thesecond we come in the door in
the morning it was tricky.
Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
Laura, thank you so much for being a part of.
So your Boss Sucks Now what.
This has been an amazingconversation and we look forward
to hearing how successful youare in this next chapter.
Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
Thanks so much.
Thanks so much, ali.
This was a lot of fun, thankyou.
Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
Today's episode is brought to you by Natalie Parker
Enterprises, where we shape thefuture and unlock potential by
helping organizations and peoplework together to do good work.
Find out more atthenatalieparkercom, or, if
you'd like to be a sponsor,email us at info at
thenatalieparkercom.
Or if you'd like to be asponsor, email us at info at the
(01:03:53):
natalieparkercom.
The parent bought a gun to school?
For what purpose?
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Um he was having.
I even had a student sellingdrugs out of the band room.
He was not one of my kids, hewas in an orchestra, not an
orchestra kid selling the drugs.
It was an orchestra kid sellingthe drugs.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
What do you get when a music teacher becomes a
military career strategist, acurriculum designer and a change
agent?
You get Laura Butler.
Laura started her journey inthe classroom, pouring into kids
with a passion for music andeducation, but over time her
calling expanded to militaryfamilies, veterans and
professionals in transition.
She's led national programsthat help service members and
(00:47):
spouses translate their skills,find their voice and thrive in
civilian life.
From nonprofits to the big fourconsulting firms, laura's
crafted learning experiencesthat don't just teach, they
transform.
Whether she's designingonboarding for veterans,
coaching kids after school orbuilding bridges between
military and corporate cultures,laura leads with empathy,
strategy and a teacher's heart.
(01:08):
On this episode of so your BossSucks, now what?
We'll follow her journey asshe's redefined leadership one
learning.
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Hi Natalie, Glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
I'm so excited about our conversation.
So the first, the firstquestion is we're talking about
educators this season.
Tell me why you got like, whyyou got into education.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
So I honestly always thought I was going to be a
teacher.
From the time I was,kindergarten age, even even up
until now, teaching always spoketo me.
Being that guide, being thatmentor.
It was something that I alwaysloved.
If I was an expert at something, I wanted to share it with the
(02:11):
world.
So that's why I've always,always wanted to be a teacher
and become an educator.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
It's funny.
From what I've gathered fromall the educators that I've
talked to, it's somethingthey're very, very sure about.
I've talked to people who arein other professions.
Like I kind of stumbled into it.
Most educators are like nope, Iknew from day whatever that I
was going to teach people how todo the things.
Does that about track with you?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah, it's a calling.
To a certain extent.
You either love it or you don't.
And the prep that just needs togo into it, even to become a
teacher especially when we'retalking about public school,
it's substantial Like hell.
I could go be a doctor.
Instead I was a teacher.
That's how much school I got.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
So you love teaching from the gate.
You are actually a musicteacher.
Tell us more about teachingkids music.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
That was a true passion.
Also, a lot of extra hourscompared to what some other
teachers do Say more.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
You sound shady about that, Laura.
What?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
some other teachers do Say more.
You sound shady about that,laura.
Well, I focused on secondaryschool.
Mind you, when I was teachingat a high school, I also had an
elementary music program I wasworking on with one of our local
schools.
I was helping out the jazz bandat the middle school, but it
was also a marching band basedprogram at the high school.
(03:45):
So when you're in marchingseason, it's not just here's
your zero.
Through seventh period it was.
You've got football games, youhave field shows, you have
practices, you have sectionalrehearsals.
It's a lot.
And to top that off, you'rehaving to make sure the music,
the drill, everything is liningup and you have to change things
(04:08):
as you go, based off of how thekids are doing in competitions
so, for those people who don'tknow what sectionals are, um,
they are when you teach thedifferent sections of the band
or the chorus, their parts,before bringing everybody
together.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
I have, yes, I lived this life in high school before
there was Glee.
So for everybody who remembersthe movie, the show, right, I
was a part of a um, oh God, whatdid we call it?
It was a, it was a chorus.
It was a traveling show.
Chorus is a show choir.
That's what it was, show choir,and we did magicals and we did
(04:43):
all of the things we did.
There's no business like shit.
We did all of the things allthroughout high school and it
was.
It was both a class duringschool, but then there was
rehearsal almost every night andit was a lot.
I remember my mom's complaininglike I am not a taxi, and but
those were such formative yearsin my high school days because I
(05:06):
am still in contact with myhigh school music teacher shout
out to Charles Reed, who's nowin Florida.
I'm also still in contact, atleast I think through some
social media, with my middleschool music teacher, uh, chris
Jones, and there was also, uh,lois Stick, but I haven't been
able to find her, but music forme has been just such a big, big
passion, and you've notunderstated it.
(05:27):
For people who are either bandgeeks or choir nerds or whatever
you want to call them, it's alot.
It's a lot of work, it's a lotof energy, but it's also a lot
of formative years from adevelopment perspective.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yeah, same with me in high school as well.
That's when I really knew Iwanted to be a band director,
specifically as a teacher.
It was my involvement in highschool music all the way through
, with orchestra, with marchingband, concert band that's really
what I took away from highschool.
It was the relationships thathappen naturally when you're
(06:06):
traveling around and you'respending so much time with all
these other people.
It felt like a family more thananything and I just I
absolutely loved it.
I loved seeing that feeling whenwe're doing well on field shows
and we're working as a team tocomplete a goal.
(06:28):
And then, you know, when Ibecame a teacher and moving on
and helping out, I was our brassspecialist.
Actually, when I moved overonto the teaching staff, just
seeing the kids' faces light upas they get better and better,
and then they even see how theydo as a group.
It's, it's such a beautifulthing and then just being there
(06:51):
as a guide for them it's not alleven just about music when
you're in the rooms with them.
They have, they've got problems, they've got decisions to make
about the whole rest of theirlife and you're there for them
and it's I love, I love.
High school is my absolutefavorite group.
It's like I've done elementary,done middle school, did high
school, high school kidsabsolute favorite.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
You're a special kind of person to like high school
kids, because I don't think Iliked high school kids when I
was in high school, but I getyou.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
No truth.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
So you find this love , you find this passion.
Talk to us about your first,your very first bad boss.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Oh, I had a few in there.
I the one that stands out to memost.
Um, it's actually when I workedin in banking.
Um, which is kind is a wholeother story, but you know, it
was one of those things whereyou just feel like you're great
(07:52):
at the job.
Everybody loves you whereyou're working, except your boss
.
So when things go wrong, it'syour fault.
If something doesn't get done,whether they asked you to do it
or not, it's your fault.
If something doesn't get done,whether they asked you to do it
or not, it's your fault.
If you got a memo and youchanged a procedure, but you
(08:12):
didn't change it quite the waythey wanted it, and then they
decided to change it backwithout telling you, it's your
fault.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
So it's like but didn't they hire you?
Were they the person that hiredyou?
Speaker 2 (08:21):
No, that may have been the problem too.
I was hired by a differentmanager and had no issues with
her.
She loved me, thought I wasgoing to be a great fit, and
then she left and I was blessedwith someone new and I
(08:42):
definitely was not part of herclique.
So I you know, I just wanted tocome in and do my thing.
I am great with operations, I'mgreat with rules, I'm great at
training other people, which waspart of my job.
And I don't know, she just sawme and instant dislike, so not
(09:06):
sure what the deal was with thatbut she sure made it known she
did not like me.
So how did you know she didn'tlike you, laura?
Well, it was actually funny.
The other supervisors even thatI worked with they're like, so
anytime you're not around, sheactually tells everybody how
(09:27):
much she dislikes you and thatyou're trying to take her job.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
I'm like she was.
She was threatened by youthat's my assumption.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
She told a couple of employees that other people
she's like Laura doesn't talkabout her personal life.
Laura is kind of weird, I don'tknow what, like Laura doesn't
talk to me and it's like we'renot friends.
I'm here to do a job which isfine.
I'm more than friendly.
Everybody that has worked withme that's the one thing they
(10:00):
call out I'm friendly.
I'm a networker, but it was.
It was this strangejuxtaposition of she was
threatened but then she kind ofwanted to talk to me, but then
she didn't, but then she didn'tlike me, so she would just
complain about me whenever Iwasn't around, which, you know,
(10:22):
that's great for anybody else wework with, that I'm the manager
, I'm basically the leader onduty, and she's been talking
about me with everybody.
So that's not a really greatway to build up morale amongst
the team and it undermines whatI'm doing too.
(10:42):
So it was so awkward so.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
I'm curious about your peers right, Because they
would come back and tell youthat she was talking about you.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Yeah, a couple of them I was more friendly with
than others and they'd just belike hey, girl, like I gotta
tell you this because it's notcool and I walked away from it
while this is what's going on.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
That's, that's noble right.
At least them not participatein the commiseration of your
downfall, right, um?
And at the same time, I thinkthis, you know, shout out to
anybody who's willing to take aleader on who's talking about
another person, to at least callout and say, hey, this is
inappropriate, or I'm notcomfortable with this
conversation, because it'sbecause, if she's talking about
(11:37):
you, what makes them think thatthey're not, that they're not a
subject of her conversation aswell?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Exactly.
It just turns into unnecessarydrama and especially when you're
dealing with something likepeople's money, it's like let's
keep it business y'all seriously.
This is important.
This is high risk.
We don't need all this noisegoing on in the background.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
So tell me about more like what are some of the other
kind of what we would callmicroaggressions, like small,
small passive, aggressive thingsthat you've seen or that you
experienced with this leader andwhen did you know it was like
time to like let me just pullthe ripcord and get out of here.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
It, it.
It actually escalated.
It escalated while it was there.
Honestly, it turned into thehey, you didn't do this right
kind of stuff every day.
It was that little bit ofmicromanaging, little bit of
nitpicking going on.
And then I trained somebody in astandard procedure.
(12:37):
We used to make updates prettyoften.
We were kind of a test bed fornew policies where we were, so I
would train everybody.
She'd come up behind me.
That's not right.
And it literally got to thepoint I had to pull out the
memos and hand it to her andthen walk away.
And then she said, well, Idon't want you to do it that way
(12:59):
.
And I said, well, the companydoes.
So it even turned into shecouldn't even say sorry,
couldn't even say, oh, you knowwhat, I must have missed that.
You're absolutely right, we cantalk about it later, kind of
thing.
It was just well, I don't wantthat.
No, no, nothing, no, humility,nothing, and it's just eye
(13:23):
rolling at that point.
Humility, nothing, and it'sjust eye rolling at that point.
And then, if anything happens,you know, somebody was out of
balance, somebody had a questionabout anything.
If I wasn't there immediatelyhandling it, where were you?
Well, helping this person?
Over here or on a break ordoing the 15,000 other things
(13:44):
you assigned to me.
I couldn't get time off anymore.
It got to that point.
What do you mean?
You couldn't get time off.
I would try to take days offand she would give it to
somebody else and not me ifsomebody else requested it.
Even if I put it in enough time, they weren't adhering to my
schedule anymore.
It started turning very muchlike hey, maybe I could just
(14:06):
push you out the door and I canpromote somebody else I'm
friends with.
So it was just it was.
It was very much about likepersonal relationships back
there and it.
It shouldn't have been likethat.
And it's funny you mentionedlike when do you know that you
wanted to leave.
I actually did not leave thecompany.
What I ended up doing is movingcross country and I took my job
(14:33):
with me.
I was able to transfer, got toa new branch, new leadership
that I adored.
Actually, I still chat with oneof those managers periodically.
I love her dearly.
And that kind of bad behavioreven followed me 2,700 miles
(14:53):
away.
What do?
Speaker 1 (14:54):
you mean.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
And well, so my old branch got in trouble for an NSF
check, basically.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Insufficient funds.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yes, came back from a business.
It was something that I hadlooked at, talked to somebody on
the phone.
They told me to put it through.
I did my due diligence on itwhen it went through because I
used to approve transactions andit came back to approve
transactions and it came backand, for whatever reason or
another, they're saying, okay,well, the branch is going to
have to, it's going to show upon your report that this
(15:31):
happened.
They tried to transfer it to mynew branch that I started with.
They had nothing to do with it,nothing going on with it.
It wasn't even anything thatwas my fault.
I followed procedure and theywere still even trying to
transfer that negative that wasshowing up on the report over to
me and my new branch that'ssome kind of special.
(15:59):
Yeah, and my new manager beingthe fierce woman she was said
absolutely not down, laid down.
The law branch manager backedher up and they backed off and I
never heard from them again so.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
So let me just get the chronology of behavior
straight, to make sure Iunderstood what I heard.
First she was trying to poisonthe well against you and your
peers, then there was themicroaggressions, then turned to
micromanagement, then juststraight mean girl right
straight mean girl to trying toscapegoat you after you had left
(16:35):
yes so it's an interestingstandard progression of that
behavior, right?
I would also say that if you'veever left a job where your
leader didn't like you, ninetimes out of 10, they're going
to blame you for something.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Oh, that was the other people, that was her.
Oh, yeah, so I know, a lot oftimes people have not left jobs
because they're like, well, if Ileave, I know they're going to
blame this on me.
Leave, leave, leave, leave,leave anyways.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Yeah, they're going to blame it on you regardless.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
So so you, you went to this branch and you know you
had been in education before youwent to the banking space, so
did you go.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
What happened?
It was an odd circumstance.
So I was teaching while I wasstill in college, finishing off
my bachelor's degree, working onmy teaching credential when I
was in graduate school.
So I was part time for most ofthat, although part time being a
band director, we know, is nota normal day it's still 12, 15,
(17:41):
18 hours in some cases.
It's still 12, 15, 18 hours insome cases.
But when I got my teachingcredential, I was close to
getting it.
By this point I'd actually movedto a new city.
I was starting to apply forteaching jobs in LA County
actually, and I was interviewing.
I was getting a lot of headway.
I even got hired by a middleschool and I was super excited
(18:07):
to start.
I was working this other retailjob just to make ends meet.
We all have bills.
So I figured this is great, I'mgoing to end up starting at
this new middle school.
And during the summer they saidoops, sorry, we're actually
going to have to let you goalready.
We lost our funding.
So you know, here I am withthis other retail job.
(18:32):
I had a significant other thatworked in banking and he had
worked in banking when he was inschool too and he's like this
is great, they work with yourschedule, it pays better than
what you're doing and you'd begreat at it.
Go into banking.
He's like you're a rule person,you're an operations person,
you got this.
So that's actually what broughtme over into banking for a few
years is I was kind of thatwaiting period of just trying to
(18:56):
get my own band program,something that was mine and
would get my teaching credentialcleared.
Because everybody starts onthat preliminary teaching
credential, because everybodystarts on that preliminary
teaching credential, you have tocome in full time, you have to
have your own program, otherwiseit's never going to get cleared
.
So that was my big focus Payingmy bills while I tried to get my
(19:18):
foot in the door and get hiredon somewhere.
It was not a good time.
We were getting into that.
2006, 2007, 2008, especially at07-08, when the market crashed
out, is when I was trying tobreak into teaching and I was
not a core curriculum teacher.
So when we start to talk aboutwhat are they going to cut oh,
(19:41):
it's me to cut, oh, it's me,it's me.
So that's when I ended upworking working in banking and
then said I even made a crosscountry trip to get a little
change scenery and change somestuff up in my life and even
applied for teaching jobs out ofstate too.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
But you did have an opportunity, though, to go back
into teaching, and at some pointyou almost had your own.
What happened there, like whathappened when you had the
opportunity to have your own orat least you could see the end
of the tunnel to getting yourown, your own band.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
End of the tunnel.
Initially, the school I hadbeen working at for years, I do.
The band director was like youknow, this would be great,
you've been here, I'm going toretire.
I want you to take the programover.
Um, ideal, the band directorwas like you know, this would be
great, you've been here, I'mgonna retire.
I, I want you to take theprogram over from me.
It's just, it was just gonna beyou finish off the credential
graduates, whatever, like,whatever you need to do to teach
(20:36):
in california.
He's like great, get it doneand I'm gonna retire and you can
have the program.
Well, he didn't.
He didn't retire, for it was atleast another 10 years.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Um, you said it.
You said a decade.
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
It was 10 years, so I don't think that's what he
intended, but that's whathappened.
I checked in with him everyyear for four years to see hey,
like, are you tired, can I comeback, can I take over the
program, can I apply?
Never happened.
(21:16):
So that's when I startedapplying to other schools For
secondary school.
Middle school is usually thegood point to try to get in if
you don't have an in.
So that's what I was trying,but it was at that point.
It was so hard to break intoanything and if you got hired
you didn't stay hired.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
So did you say anything to him about?
You know his you can't evencall it gatekeeping Like he, he
was the, he was like he wastaking up the seat.
I'm sure he was doing afabulous job.
But did you say like, hey man,like I'm lingering here and
you're, you're not moving.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
It was just kind of simple.
I'm so sorry I can't do it yet.
I'm not in a place I could doit.
I need to go another year ortwo, Like I'll keep in touch
with you.
So it was.
It was kind of those simplepieces.
I think it was his ownfinancial situation, basically,
(22:12):
and he wasn't ready.
I honestly think he just wasn'tready to leave.
He always talked about I'mtired and I think I need to stop
, and he was talking aboutmoving himself.
And he was talking about movinghimself and it just he just
kept going and going and goinguntil finally, finally he
retired.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
What would you say to the people who are in those
positions?
Because it's very interesting.
It's not like corporatesituations where you may be able
to move to a different place.
Like this is the job.
It's the only job in the system, right?
Especially if you're in aschool system that only has one
high school or hasn't just a few.
Like you, don't have manyoptions.
What would you say to peoplewho've been in that position?
(22:55):
How do you not get got?
Speaker 2 (23:01):
It's so complicated dealing with something like that
because, even like most jobsout there, the hidden job market
, networking that's always goingto be king.
If you've got your sights seton particular districts, it's
just that it's so limited to whothey can bring in and how and
why.
They're always going to bringin people they know.
So ingratiating yourself isgreat, but that's not always
(23:22):
going to bring in people theyknow.
So ingratiating yourself isgreat, but that's not always
going to get you everywhere.
We had four high schools in ourdistrict.
We had about a dozen middleschools and how many teachers
did we have out there that weretrying to break in?
So this is the most difficultthing, especially for specialty
teachers.
So you know, this is the mostdifficult thing, especially for
specialty teachers getting theirfoot in the door.
(23:42):
You really have to thinkoutside the box.
A if you're going to do it inpublic or private school, at
that point, just to startgetting your hours in If you're
credentialed it has to be publicschool you may have to jump
ship and move, basically to beable to get in somewhere.
I've had friends of mine thathave literally had to move to
(24:04):
another state.
They finished everything off.
They couldn't get full-timeroles.
They kept getting brought in aslong-term subs, which is
another fabulous tactic of someof the districts.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Why is?
Speaker 2 (24:15):
that they don't have to pay you as much.
You're getting your hourly andno benefits at that point for
long-term sub.
So and then you turn around.
It's like am I coming back nextyear, but for a California
teaching credential?
That doesn't count toward yourtime.
You only have five years to getthat credential cleared,
(24:41):
jumping in and have somethingfull time ready to go.
You don't have your mentorteacher, you're not doing your
extra 30 units of collegecredits you need in that two
years.
It's never going to get clearedand they're not going to extend
it.
So that was the conundrum thata lot of us were in, especially
at that point.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
So, yeah, I can't even tell you how many friends
of mine I'm like if you reallywant to do this, if this is your
lifeblood and your passion andyou know it is hard, hard work,
getting through all that to beable to teach in the California
school system but you may not beable to stay in California.
You may have to move down toSan Diego, you may have to move
(25:17):
up to the Bay Area, you may haveto go somewhere else.
A lot of friends of mine endedup in North Carolina, Texas,
Florida, Minnesota, taking onteaching jobs so they could stay
teachers.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
It seems such an odd situation, considering there's a
lack of teachers in thepipeline and it gets worse year
over year.
It does, and the the financialsituation for educators is also
not attractive.
It just seems strange to hearthat, like you had people who
(25:51):
want to do the job and thereweren't places for them to go.
It just seems very odd.
Talk to me about um.
We've been talking about thetrifecta of bosses that teachers
have, this idea of theadministration, you know the
federal government, right, thefederal and state government,
the local administration and theparents.
(26:12):
And if you want to, you know,make it a quadruplet, you can
call the kids a part of the badboss group.
Talk to me about your, yourengagement or your experience
with, with local administrationand how it affected your ability
to, or your experience in,teaching.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah, and honestly, the kids were the best part of
the whole equation.
Hands down, our localadministration.
We had a really supportiveprincipal for a while.
When you're talking about amusic program, it's very
expensive to run them,especially when you're
considering there's busesinvolved, uniforms involved,
(26:51):
instrument repairs just all thelittle things that you need to
be able to keep a program going.
To keep a program going At thetime we needed nearly 60 grand
actually to keep the programafloat and we were only
receiving $12,000 a year fromthe actual school system.
So a lot of fundraising inthere, a lot of everything, a
(27:14):
lot of begging foradministrators.
I'm going to say this out loud.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
For those of you who always wonder why the kids are
asking you for money at school,this is the reason Help little
Bobby, help little Daquan gethis trumpet or keep the things
that they need.
We used to sell poinsettias.
We would sing at Christmas timeand sell poinsettias for like
30 bucks a poinsettia, and wewould give a carol and we would
deliver them.
(27:38):
It was a beautiful experience.
A carol and they would, wewould deliver them.
It was a beautiful experienceand we had to do a lot of
fundraising to even be able togo to the competitions to get
the notoriety to help the cop.
The school it's, it's a circle.
So y'all, oh yeah, support thearts at your school, support the
pta, help them raise money,because nobody has money for
real donate money buy thosecandy bars, get those car washes
(27:59):
.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
I I think I was doing the boosters myself, the band
director.
It was at least 12 differentfundraisers every year, even at
our concerts.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
So we're close to Nations Ford High School, which
actually over the last I thinkit might have been seven or
eight years they performed inthe Macy's parade.
They're very well known, thecompetitive.
Every year they sell mattresses, which I think is the weirdest
thing, but it is really.
This is strange, but they makea ton of money anyway.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
That's neither here I've never heard of that.
That's hey, if it works, itworks.
Um, so I mean I I say all thatto to kind of segue into some of
the administrative issues saidwe had one great principal
you're talking about all thestuff with funding we had one
great guy that at least wedidn't have to pay for buses
(28:52):
anywhere.
He made sure we were part ofthe athletics budget.
The athletics departmenttotally agreed with it.
They're like yes, we need theband at football games.
So it wasn't even a question,it was something that had always
been.
And then we got a new principaland basically just try blowing
(29:12):
up the budget and it's like, oh,you can't use that anymore.
If the band wants to play atthe football games, it's coming
out of your budget.
If the band wants to play atthe football games, it's coming
out of your budget.
So I was really thankful andthat my band director, as a
mentor, as the head of theprogram, it didn't fly with him.
He would really put a hard lineout there.
(29:33):
Um, when we were gettingadministrative pushback and he
said fine, we don't go tofootball games, end of story,
we're not doing parades anymore,we're not, we're not going
football games.
He's like we're gonna go tofootball games, end of story.
We're not doing parades anymore, we're not going to football
games.
He's like we're going to go tofield shows, we're going to do
stuff for us and we're not doingstuff for the school or
district anymore.
And he said, boom, mic drop.
And they came around prettyquickly after that and said,
(29:56):
okay, you can stay on theathletics budget, because then
they had the entire athleticsdepartment breathing down
administration's neck going.
We need the band there.
What are we going to be theonly high school in Southern
California that doesn't have aband at these football games?
How bad does that look?
And we get the crowd going.
Come on, it's band and footballgame.
(30:16):
That's a given.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
That's American.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Exactly so.
It was little things like that's, that's a given, that's
that's america.
Yeah, exactly so, you know itwas.
It was little things like that.
Then they tried to find otherways to nickel and dime.
I was going up and going up tothe office.
You have those great big xeroxcopier machines that are still
in all the schools.
We got to copy music for thekids.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
I have a little code that I can put in to copy some
music but, by the way, I alwaysthought it was funny how we copy
music at school and it's liketotal copyright infringement.
Oh yeah, totally.
I still have copies of sheetmusic in this house from high
school and college.
You have to and Hal Johnsonknows y'all stole his music
(31:02):
right like no, you have to.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
The kids lose all the originals and you're not paying
three dollars a copy for oh, no, no, no, no, that's funny.
Yeah, so I.
It got to the point.
I was going up there,principals looking at me like we
do in the copy room again, andthey actually turned down my
like on my code.
They were only letting me do150 copies a month Up there in
(31:31):
the office.
Somebody like changed something.
How many?
Speaker 1 (31:34):
pieces were in the van.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
One year we had 185.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
185 pieces in the van .
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yeah, we had 185 kiddos in our marching band and
I was only able to do 150 copiesa month.
So how many?
Speaker 1 (31:51):
I'm just going to do the math, the routine.
How many songs would you havein a routine?
Let's see for any given givenfield show four or five.
So five times 180, and that'snot including, like, the backup
song.
So let's just say you did tryseven, you took seven songs even
though you only did five, rightbut this is just field show.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
This isn't even our football games, anything else,
just the field show, like fourto five songs, depending on what
year it was so you needed 1295copies, and they let you have 10
of that yep, good job, I wasgreat.
All the other teachers weresharing their codes with me
because they weren't using thecopier I'm here for it.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
I am here for you being being creative and getting
your um, getting what youneeded for your kids, and many
teachers do the same.
Did you ever confront theadministration or did your your
former band director?
Is this the blocker guy thatdidn't move?
Well, at least he was.
He was helpful.
That's good.
We like him.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
He was, he was, he was a good dude.
He was, he was a great mentor,great band director.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
He had some.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
he had some stuff where he didn't leave.
But I learned a lot being theretoo that I took with me and all
throughout my career, so I cansay that but did he ever go toe
to toe with them?
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Like, listen, we're not doing this.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
He did on the copier piece and then she basically
just standardized it across allthe departments so it didn't
look like she was just pickingon us.
But then she also said stopsharing your codes with the band
he.
He said there's certain battles, it's just not worth it.
So we just ended up buying alaser copier and popped it in
(33:38):
the band room and told nobodyand basically if you weren't
performing arts, you weren'tallowed to use it.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
What's so fascinating about this conversation is when
you look at the line items in abudget because I've done this
in other organizations and ifyou're looking at the copy
machine as the source of whereyou're going to save copious
amounts of money, you're doingit wrong.
You're absolutely doing itwrong.
Like ah, you just got to do it.
Oh, we're absolutely doing itwrong.
Like oh, yeah, okay, crazy yeahit was.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
It was funny.
It was just like what else can,can we do?
It got to the point, thoughit's like the principal was
there for a couple years.
I feel like things started tosettle a bit and it she'd even
walk up and say, good job, band,I like how you played, and then
like, walked off.
I'm like this is progress, thisis progress, so let's roll with
(34:27):
it.
It did finally taper off for awhile, but you know it felt like
anytime you got somebody new inthere anywhere in that like
upper level administration,they'd always question every
line item in the budget.
And, you know, at the same timewe had stuff going on with our
district office and our board,and you know I was there for a
(34:49):
teacher strike because they wereworking on cutting benefits.
It was, it was tumultuous, mymy first few years when I was
actually at the school, I was ona picket line.
Few years when I was actuallyat the school I was on a picket
line.
So I saw a lot in just a shortamount of time with what was
going on there and, of course,the benefits.
Everything.
It even affected the teacher Iwas working for.
(35:10):
So I was at board meetings andspeaking and being my little
young spitfire self.
I'm here for it.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
I'm here for it.
So talk to me.
Let's move from theadministration and talk about
the parents.
Okay, in these conversations,I've heard a ton of things.
Tell me about some of theheadaches that you had
experienced in the space whileyou were dealing with parents
and what you would have wantedfrom them instead of what you
got.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
You know, I don't want to say the parents were my
least favorite part of teaching,but honestly I think it was,
and especially as a parentmyself now I'm like I don't want
to be one of those parents, sowhat?
Speaker 1 (35:56):
is one of those parents.
What did they do?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
We would have times where you you know you send
report cards out.
Kids aren't doing too hot withtheir grades and it's banned.
So you have parents go.
What's going on with my kid?
I'm dropping them off forrehearsal.
They're.
They're in class.
What's going on?
It's your fault, why.
Why are they getting a d inband?
Why are they getting a c?
Your?
Speaker 1 (36:18):
mind, don't practice, but two times a week.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
That's why they don't at all and you might be
dropping them off, but they'renot coming to class, okay, so,
yeah, so it was alwaysinteresting having those
conversations as to, hey, thisis why their grades are not
awesome, and then the parentsturning around and blaming you
and going to administration.
(36:41):
I had kids that used to bringstuff that they couldn't have in
class, like it's probably thisis definitely going to date me,
like the old, like Game BoyAdvance, psps, like they're
bringing them in class, likewe're rehearsing, and I,
literally I remember this littleclarinet player, third row, and
this kid sitting back there inthe middle of rehearsal playing
(37:01):
SPSB.
So I took it away.
I had a little box in the officethat you know, put stuff in it,
lock it up.
It was contraband and theparents would actually have to
come in and get it from me.
I wouldn't give it back to thestudent, and the amount of times
that I'd have parents call mewe'll just give it back.
I'm like, no, this isn't policy.
(37:22):
You're going to need to come inat some point and I need you to
sign a form and then I can giveit back to you to make sure it
doesn't come back to school.
The yelling, I got it left meover the phone.
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Yelling at me.
They're yelling at you fortheir disobedient kid over the
phone oh yeah, yelling at youfor their disobedient kid?
Speaker 2 (37:45):
yes, they are.
Um, I had one section this isprobably the worst thing that
happened to me in band.
We had a new student come infrom a different school kid had
his his own issues that we weretaking care of.
But we had three other boys inband that decided to pick him up
after a field show, take himinto a bathroom and hold his
(38:05):
head in a toilet.
Yeah, mind you, he was going toget suspended from band anyways
.
He was trying to throw ourscores at a field show to give
his old high school an advantage.
That was a whole other issue,but the kids decided to do
vigilante justice.
So I have this brawl going on.
I got this kid with a head in atoilet and now, when we get
(38:28):
back to the school, I have allthese sets of parents that are
all in and are all fighting withus, and we had one dad that
fully agreed with what his sondid, given this kid, trying to
drown him in a toilet, and theywere yelling at me about it like
how, how dare you punish my sonfor trying to drown this other
student?
Um, that was probably, well,that's not the worst thing that
(38:52):
happened, but I, that one stickswith me.
I I even had a student sellingdrugs out of the band room.
He was not one of my kids, hewas in an orchestra.
Um, and that's your kid sellingthe drugs it was, it was a, it
was an orchestra kid on thedrugs, um and it was, it was
awful.
I mean, he got in trouble, hegot arrested.
We I had to report it.
(39:14):
He was doing it out of theoffice.
He, he hid drugs in the couchum, that was in the office.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
I mean, what was it?
I gotta know.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
I'm very curious he was hiding marijuana in the
couch well doing eight balls inhigh school we're not 100% what
some of the stuff was.
I'm by no means a drug expert,but I'm like, oh, that's baggies
of drugs.
So you know I had.
It's like I felt terrible.
(39:47):
I really liked the kid.
He had some stuff going on athome but that's how he was
getting money.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Hey, he needed to be able to play Chopin man.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
That's how he's buying his cello.
I don't know, but his dadactually came in and threatened
to kill me because I reportedhis son.
He actually threatened tomurder me.
That would not be the firsttime I've had a parent threaten
to murder me too, which is whichis in the world is going on
(40:19):
where you were teaching I.
You know I I worked at a veryyou know we kind of talk about
like title title one, schoolsversus I.
This was in an affluent area.
I large school, decent funding,a lot of extracurriculars we
call that entitlement yeah, I, Iwould, I would, um, I would
(40:43):
definitely say so.
I was the garbage teacher thatturned his kid in, so I didn't
deserve to live according to him.
Yeah, it's great, I, you knowit's.
I'll kind of get back into thisa little bit more later.
I used to joke with my, with myhusband.
He's in the military and I'mlike teachers public school
(41:04):
teachers, high school I'm likewe got PTSD Y'all.
We had dangerous jobs,borderline, even some of the
stuff versus what I saw, versuswhat he saw.
So teaching's dangerous.
It is a calling.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
Otherwise it's tricky to do.
You gotta love it.
Talk to you, gotta love thekids.
Talk to me about post-traumaticstress syndrome because, or
disorder because you, you, younow work with veterans, right,
so it's, this is not foreign toyou.
Let's, let's go here like what?
Why do you say teachers haveptsd?
Speaker 2 (41:36):
a lot of what we deal with, and so it's not even just
that was traumatic havingparents coming at me like that.
We've got threats of violencefrom kids, from parents.
We have kids bringing weaponsto school.
I had a parent that brought agun to school and was up on our
(41:57):
gym.
It turned into a whole thing.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
The parent brought a gun to school.
For what purpose?
Speaker 2 (42:06):
um, he was having a mental health crisis.
Some relationship related, wentto his kid's school with a with
a weapon, so but stuff likethat happens.
I even had we had a band kidactually that was afraid of a
final coming up.
He didn't study enough and heand his friends planted a fake
bomb at the school.
(42:28):
That year we had four bombthreats.
One of them was real.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Wow, we just used to pull the fire alarm.
Laura, like what happened tojust pulling the fire alarm.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Ah, it doesn't work anymore.
I mean, that happened enoughtoo, let me tell you.
But it would really escalatequickly and just trying to get
to the kids and look for thesigns before the stuff happened.
But yet again, sometimes it'snot even the kids, it's the
parents threatening violence onother children and teachers at
the school.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Do you feel like you were adequately prepared for the
what I'll call the bad bosseryof parents right Trying to meet
their expectations or their, youknow, whatever crazy they
brought to your doorstep thatday?
Speaker 2 (43:13):
You can only be prepared to a certain extent.
Yeah, we talk about it.
We talk about it when we'regoing through our teaching
programs at school.
I was in a great teachingprogram.
I was at a great college,talked about it with my mentor,
you know.
He even went over issues thathe had seen with the parents and
how he handled situations.
But I don't think you couldever be fully prepared.
(43:34):
It's like going through bootcamp.
You're learning all the skills,you're kind of getting
indoctrinated into the role andbeing a public servant.
You go to school for it foryears.
You get your time in theclassroom, you do your student
teaching, but then here you are,you're dropped in.
It's fight or flight and youjust have to take things as they
(43:55):
come.
You never really know whatyou're going to walk into day to
day.
You prepare as much as you can,you've got lesson plans, you've
got curriculum, you know yourkids, but you just never, never,
really know what's going tohappen.
I mean it's kind of fun aboutteaching.
You've got the organized chaosaround you and you got all these
great kids and all theselearning opportunities.
(44:16):
But then there's the dark sideof it too, just working with so
many people on a day-to-daybasis, especially a difficult
age group.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
Yeah, it's absolutely beyond me.
Having death threats and thingslike that.
I can't imagine and I wonder.
I've heard teachers on our showsay that the first year that
the kids got of me was my worstversion of teaching, because I
just wasn't prepared.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
And that's usually how your first year, everybody
will tell you it's just do yourbest, fake it till you make it.
I just had the sameconversation with my
brother-in-law.
Actually, he just started, thiswas his first year as an
English teacher and he's like Idon't feel prepared and I'm like
I'm going to tell you whateverybody told me as I was
(45:08):
coming in Fake it till you makeit.
Be the authority in the roomand just do your best.
Try to rely on other mentors asmuch as you can.
Know who the good teachers are,know who the bad teachers are,
know who the snakes are, andjust roll with it, because
really that's all you can do.
You get as prepared as possibleand plan for different
(45:32):
scenarios, and things never workout the way you think they will
.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
So, laura, you said something and I want to dig in
this really quick before wepivot to the next part of our
conversation.
You said know who the goodteachers are, know who the bad
teachers are, know who thesnakes are.
What's the difference betweenthe bad teacher, which I would
assume is like somebody who justis not a good teacher, like
they're not good at their craft,versus they're checked out?
(45:55):
Which is the snake?
Talk to me about the snakes thesnakes are everywhere.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
I I didn't think I'd find so many in the teaching
profession, but it's.
It's people that are ambitious,or you know, they've got a
piece of the pie.
They're non-core in some casesthey're non-core teachers and
they're fighting for a lot ofthe same funding you are.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
Non-core teachers being people who don't teach
science, math, technology,English.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
Mostly math, mostly math and English, Some of the
other.
That's usually what core isconsidered nowadays.
Even social studies and scienceisn't even necessarily core
person that tears you down withyour colleagues.
It's the person that tries toingratiate themselves with
(46:49):
administration that's going togo.
Oh well, I know this, I knowthis about this person, so you
should give me their money nextyear.
It's that kind of person.
So we all know who snakes arein our careers.
Unfortunately, you find them inthe teaching profession too.
Bad teachers, it's simple.
They're checked out.
They're not doing great thingsin their room.
They haven't changed theircurriculum in 30 years.
(47:11):
They just stand up there, writea bunch of stuff on the board
and then tell the kids to go dotheir homework.
That I can deal with.
It's people that are pretendingto be helpful but are two-faced
.
So I've seen them not just,obviously, in teaching, but
across all the different rolesthat I've had.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
So you mentioned the different roles.
Talk to us, because you've gonefrom teaching little kids to
what you call little big kids,right?
So little kids to little bigkids.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
Oh gosh, I shouldn't say that out loud.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
Having been in the training and development field
for as long as I have, I totallyunderstand it.
But talk to us about why thatmight be at least marginally
true for you.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
I raise a kid at heart when you're training them
At least you hope they are,because they'll grow as you're
teaching them.
No, I mean it was aninteresting pivot and it was
something that actually came outof necessity.
So I became a male spouse.
I married a service member andit was very A military spouse,
(48:19):
so army spouse.
It was very tricky keeping yourteaching credentials going
across state lines.
You're teaching credentialsgoing across state lines and for
those of us that move regularlywith the military, staying at
that level of public servant,keeping credentials common even.
You know, I'd mentioned beforemaking those networking
connections to be able to get ina school with limited roles,
(48:42):
it's really difficult for us tobe able to do that moving from
state to state.
So you know we'd initiallymoved to.
I was in North Carolina for alittle while, had a good
opportunity, had some time tonetwork in, got offered a job at
a high school.
Actually I'm like great, I'mgoing back into teaching.
They're converting mycredentials from California to
(49:04):
North Carolina.
Everything seemed perfect.
California to North Carolina,everything seemed perfect.
And then my husband got orders.
He got a document from the armythat said hey, guess what?
Y'all are going to go move toTexas Congratulations, that's
not disruptive at all.
Oh, not at all.
Not, not, not at all.
So, yeah, no, we, we ended uphaving to move.
(49:27):
I had to turn it down.
I was still working, you knowkind of that corporate America
banking, banking type stuff whenwe were there.
So I'm like, well, at least Ihave this, I should be able to
take it with me while I figureout how to be a teacher in Texas
.
And that never happened.
Actually, I could get mycredentials converted when I got
there.
I was being forced to go backto school and do everything over
(49:50):
for my graduate program.
I was going to have to start mycredentialing process over
again.
They just I basically got toldwe don't want teachers from
California here.
If you, if you want to teach,you're going to have to go
through what Texas wants you todo.
And it was hard to network.
You know, in the local area,you know we were around Fort
Bliss at the time and every HRperson I talked to as I got
(50:11):
there they're like are you aUTEP graduate?
And I said no, I'm a militaryspouse, I'm not from here.
And they went okay, and theywere totally uninterested and
they were opening a ton of highschools.
At the time, I'm just like,okay, well, this isn't working
out for me, it's just not so.
(50:32):
I kicked around for a littlewhile.
I had an existential crisis forprobably about a year, like
what am I going to do?
What am I going to do next?
Like my whole life has revolvedaround this.
I want to be a teacher and itwas probably a narrow focus, I
would think, because I'm likeI'm always going to teach high
school teaching music.
This is what I love.
This is what I wanted to do.
(50:52):
This is what I wanted to dosince I was a little kid and an
opportunity came up for me onbase.
I got connected in with somegroups on the military
installation and there's there'sa program called Army Community
Service and they got a bunch ofjobs posted up for spouses.
And someone reached out to meand said hey, you know, the
(51:15):
Department of Defense has thisnew program for transitioning
service members.
It's called the TAP program.
They've had it for some time.
They've revamped it.
There's a contractor that theygot this new revamped contract
and they need facilitators.
They need some careertransition trainers in there,
and we think you'd be a good fitfor it with your education
(51:35):
degree and your experience and Isaid, oh, you know, this is.
This is interesting.
I'm like I love to.
I love to get back to themilitary.
I've had family militarist.
My spouse is in the military.
I'm now a military spouse.
I'm like this sounds reallyinteresting.
I've had experience hiring.
I've had experience out therehustling and trying to get jobs.
(51:55):
I'm like I think I can actuallygive some really solid advice
to people that are getting out.
So I applied, I got the job andreally it was history from
there.
It was something I excelled atand got better at very quickly
to the point that we had servicemembers coming from all over
(52:18):
the military need assistancetransitioning out of the
military.
Like what's the?
Speaker 1 (52:22):
point of these programs.
Just quickly for the folks whomay not understand why.
Speaker 2 (52:38):
Sure, it's difficult making transitions for any of us
to different careers, and youthink about somebody that has
spent time in the military.
It's very specific what they doin their roles.
They don't need resumes andmeetings to promote.
They have their own processes,policies and procedures.
(53:01):
It's individuals that have gonethrough a boot camp.
They've gone through militarytraining.
And then I'll even focus on oneparticular group.
People have been in the military10 years or more.
It's a big change for many ofthem.
They don't remember what it waslike being a civilian hired.
(53:27):
They have service-connecteddisabilities and they were asked
to leave the military or theydid it of their own volition.
Things are constantly changingin civilian environments.
When it comes to getting a job,they need help.
They need to know what theyneed to do to write a resume,
how they need to network, whatinterviews are going to look
like.
Otherwise, they're not going tohave a successful transition.
(53:49):
It's so important for them to beable to have that support and
to give them a leg up, becausewhat we were finding before
these programs existedunemployment rates.
It was varied between branchesof service, but we were seeing
unemployment rates 17%, 18%, 19%for service members going from
(54:10):
the military out into thecivilian world because they
spoke their own language, theyhad their own jargon, they
weren't even sure what theywanted to do or how it was going
to correlate or translate,based off of where most of their
experience has been.
So that's where these programsreally became key.
So that's where these programsreally became key and they've
been running about 15 years nowreally, really heavily and
(54:34):
they've only gotten better andnow their unemployment rates are
sitting pretty much in witheverybody else's.
But that's why.
It's because this extra leg upand help and training is getting
them ready for that transition.
Speaker 1 (54:50):
Yeah, when I was at one of my first employers I had
the opportunity of running anapprenticeship program with
disabled vets to help transitionand I would say, beyond the
skills which are needed rightthe transfer, or at least
learning what new skills theyneed to learn, it was the
cultural transition that wasimportant, like understanding,
because military politics arenot like corporate politics and
(55:13):
the hierarchy may not be asrespected in a corporate space
as it requires in a militaryspace.
So I fully appreciate theservice that you've been able to
give in a very meaningful andaltruistic sense, not that it
wasn't good for the little kids,but specifically for our vets.
(55:36):
I really applaud you for that.
So, laura, talk to me aboutkind of how organizational
culture affected your kind ofexperiences.
Speaker 2 (55:46):
So I've been thankful as I've gone through and have
been more active in the militarycommunity.
I've I've gone into othercompanies that have respected
veteran culture, militarycommunity culture, military
spouses.
So you know, after I was, I wasworking my government
contracting role, doing thefacilitation piece.
(56:08):
I rolled into the nonprofitsector and yet we talk about
those transition services tohelp ease individuals the skill
sets, the culture, the necessarypieces of information they need
to be successful in their nextrole.
That's actually what I wasdoing with an organization
called well, that program'scalled Onward Opportunity and it
(56:29):
was with the Institute forVeterans and Military Families.
Everything that we did wasgeared toward the military
community and upskilling andcertifications for those
individuals to make them morevaluable as they transition to
civilian careers.
They upskilled if they were aveteran or it was a male spouse
that was trying to upskill orchange careers themselves.
Because I can go on all dayabout male spouses and the
(56:52):
issues that we face while we'rewith our service members and
having to travel around thecountry and the world Because we
have to put our careers on holda lot.
So you know, and even talkingabout my most recent role, I'll
just say I was with the big four.
Now y'all probably can check myLinkedIn anyways, but running
(57:13):
military programs there, youknow, focusing on skills that
individuals need for corporateAmerica that are going to be
value.
And even once veterans enteredour company, we had our own
program for veteran onboarding.
It was part of my portfolio andyou brought up a great piece
about the culture learning a newlanguage.
(57:33):
How do you communicate withothers, because now you have
civilians around you?
How do you get the militaryjargon out?
How do you be diplomatic inyour approach and matrix
organizations?
How are you going to networkwhen you don't have rank and an?
A tape on your chest?
So it's all of those littlepieces, and I love being in
(57:54):
organizations that that supportthe military, that have these
programs, that have theseopportunities, because that's
that's also.
I mean, teaching is where myheart is.
Kids are where my heart is, butI've been a part of the
military community for so long.
That's the core of my heart,along with education, training
and teaching.
So anywhere that I could dothat, that's what's important to
(58:17):
me, and those organizationsthat are supporting the military
are also what's going to beimportant to me.
Speaker 1 (58:24):
But talk to me about a bad boss in this field right
now.
You've gotten out of theschools.
Give us you know you've learned.
Now you are long in the toothwhen it comes to your career.
So, like now, what have youfaced in your working tenure in
terms of bad bosses?
Speaker 2 (58:45):
Oh man, this gets tricky because I'm like I'm
still in the space.
Are they going to?
Speaker 1 (58:51):
know what I'm talking about.
We will change the names toprotect the innocent and the
guilty.
Uh, and we don't even have totalk about the company because
everybody will go look at yourlinkedin.
But like, give me like you knowhere's the scenario.
Here's what caught me off guard, Like what you know, what
sticks out for you?
Speaker 2 (59:14):
I don't even know if I can.
It wasn't even necessarily adirect boss.
The difficulty you findyourself in when you're doing
roles like this is a politicalnature of it.
Not everybody has the bestinterest at heart for the
service member.
You're having to partner withfederal agencies.
There's specific structures onthe installation that you you
(59:35):
know when I started as acontractor.
You have to work with theseindividuals.
It's part of your contract,it's part of the structure of
the transition programs andthat's more of where I had my
issues.
I've honestly had amazing bossesin most of my career when
(59:55):
dealing with transition programs.
There's been things here andthere that I'm like get the
little eye roll in there.
But it was the bigger issueworking within the contractor
ecosystem and dealing withcertain federal employees that
you could.
They were the boss, whetherthey were mine directly or not.
That didn't.
They tried to make things asdifficult as possible for you to
(01:00:20):
be able to do your role.
A lot of pushback and it's yetagain unnecessary drama
associated with the programs.
Like why is this so hard tomake sure we have our books in
the room when we get in there onTuesday morning?
Like why is this an issue?
Go get them yourself.
Well see, let's talk about howthis contract works and who has
(01:00:44):
the business insurance.
Okay, and having to sit hereand navigate some of these
political firestorms because, atthe same time, you're also
representing a company that'sgoing to put a bid on this
contract again in a few years.
So it's not like, hey, I'm justa facilitator, coming into this
space as a guest, getting theseservice members through to meet
(01:01:07):
at least minimum requirements oftheir military transition and
being as informative as I can.
I'm now having to navigate thespace of other contractors.
We're working with the GSemployees, the heads of the TAP
program at the installation, theDepartment of Labor who we were
under contract for with DOLvets.
It's a firestorm, it's aminefield, and making sure you
(01:01:31):
have the right people in placethat have an understanding of
how to talk to people in theright way, but also remaining
firm and making sure theseservice members are getting what
they need to.
It's all key.
So I talked about it a littlebit more broadly.
I'm like, hopefully I made thatanonymous enough.
Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
I will say that in a lot of these situations, both in
three-letter organizations inthe government and not, you will
find people who power trip justbecause they can, they can you
will find people who aren't goodpartners right.
I think one of the things thatI've learned in my career is
(01:02:10):
just trying to createpartnerships between people to
show that the value we'rebringing is a benefit to them
rather than you're doing me afavor by helping me with the
thing that you're supposed to bedoing in the first place and
that, yes, I am here to serve,but I'm not a servant.
Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
And I'm also not a doormat.
Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
That part Right, and that's really what I meant, Not
that I don't have a service.
You know servant mentality andas much as what we're not going
to do is diminish me and thethings that I can do to make you
feel better.
Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
Yeah, and that was the problematic aspect of it too
.
It's just, it was unnecessaryand I'm resilient and I could
take care of it.
I tried to protect my people.
I worked with at theinstallation directly, but it
was difficult and we would havepeople leave their role.
They're just like I can't dothis.
It's unnecessary.
I can't do this.
(01:03:02):
The schedule changes, theclassroom changes, the pushback,
gs employees yelling at us thesecond we come in the door in
the morning it was tricky.
Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
Laura, thank you so much for being a part of.
So your Boss Sucks Now what.
This has been an amazingconversation and we look forward
to hearing how successful youare in this next chapter.
Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
Thanks so much.
Thanks so much, ali.
This was a lot of fun, thankyou.
Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
Today's episode is brought to you by Natalie Parker
Enterprises, where we shape thefuture and unlock potential by
helping organizations and peoplework together to do good work.
Find out more atthenatalieparkercom, or, if
you'd like to be a sponsor,email us at info at
thenatalieparkercom.
Or if you'd like to be asponsor, email us at info at the
(01:03:53):
natalieparkercom.
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