S3 E5: Fired in Translation: How Bad Leadership Abroad Led to Better Opportunities

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What happens when you find yourself teaching in a foreign country under a boss who doesn't speak your language and won't give direct feedback? For Daphne Brown, this challenging scenario became a profound lesson in resilience, cultural navigation, and leadership.

Daphne's journey from Albany, Georgia to teaching English in South Korea reveals the complex interplay between Eastern and Western communication styles. In Korean workplaces, influenced by Confucian philosophy, feedback is rarely direct. Instead of clearly stating what needs improvement, bosses might simply say "it could be better," leaving employees to intuit what changes to make. Add a language barrier, and the challenge becomes even more daunting.

When Daphne's finance-background boss repeatedly rejected his teaching materials without specific guidance, then delayed notifying him about his contract non-renewal, it could have spelled disaster. Instead, it became a turning point. Through relationships he'd carefully built—particularly with a coordinator who became his advocate—Daphne secured a better position within the Korean education system. This experience taught him valuable lessons about leadership from within rather than above, empowering team members rather than dictating to them.

Beyond professional insights, Daphne's story highlights how saying "yes" to unfamiliar experiences shapes our growth. Now an entrepreneur launching Kwanzaa, a coffee company sourcing products from East Africa, he carries these lessons into new ventures. His advice for anyone considering international work? Be an ambassador for your community, embrace discomfort, and recognize that sometimes our greatest setbacks lead to unexpected opportunities.

Ready to reshape how you view leadership challenges? Listen now to discover how cultural barriers, when navigated with openness and resilience, can transform not just your career but your approach to life.

Don't let your boss suck the life out of you.
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Learn more or Book Natalie.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
What she told me was he didn't want to let me down
and so he kind of pushed it allto the side.
But my contract expires inSeptember.
I will have to go home to theUS.
What did she mean?
I'm not ready to go back.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
I'm not going to hire you.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
He wasn't going to hire you.
Yeah, I don't know why you'refiring me, bro Chill, it's
already done, sorry.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
This is so your Boss Sucks.
Now what?
And I'm Natalie Renee Parker.
One of my favorite TV showsgrowing up I'm an 80s baby was
Fraggle Rock.
It's this Muppet show, createdby Jim Hansen, who actually
created the Muppets and whoactually created the Muppets,
and then he created this showcalled Fraggle Rock and the
Muppets lived underneath thefloorboards of this house and
they lived in a place calledFraggle and they'd have all

(00:49):
these different adventuresteaching you like how to have
conflict and how to be kind andall the other things.
But one of the best charactersin my opinion of Fraggle Rock
was Uncle Travelin' Matt,because Uncle Travelin' Matt had
all of the awareness, thewherewithal, the wisdom to leave

(01:13):
Fraggle Rock and go exploringand learning about the human
world.
He'd come across everydayobjects or curious cultural
practices and try to understandthem.
He was brave and he was kind ofweird.
At times he was very misplaced.
But he'd also write backpostcards to his nephew at
Fraggle Rock to try to help himunderstand what's going on.
My next guest reminds me ofUncle Traveling Matt, not

(01:34):
because he's weird, but becausehe's an educator.
He's a global traveler and he'strying to change the world
through his new coffee companycalled Kwanzaa, where they're
disrupting the industry throughfair trade and East African
partnerships.
Daphne Brown is from Albany,georgia, and he started in
classrooms there but foundhimself in Korea of all places,

(01:55):
trying to navigate aConfucian-influenced classroom
and all the cultural dynamics,said and unsaid, that go with it
.
With his bachelor's degree fromAlbany State and a master's
degree from Florida University,florida A&M University, hbcu, go
Rattlers and then got an MBAfrom Washington University in St
Louis, he's overcome a ton ofchallenges when it comes to

(02:19):
leadership and bad bossery,right.
So in this episode, we're goingto explore what it took for him
to be that resilient.
We're going to talk about howsaying yes to new opportunities,
even when you're uncomfortable,can unlock unexpected paths,
and we'll uncover why teachingis more than just knowledge
transfer.
It's about shaping communitiesand changing the future.

(02:40):
Let's go talk to Daphne.
Daphne, welcome to Sew.

(03:01):
Your Boss Sucks.
Now what.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
How you doing.
I'm doing well.
How about yourself?

Speaker 2 (03:03):
I'm really good.
Listen, I'm excited you're here.
I'm excited you're here becauseour conversation to plan for
this is amazing and I cannotwait for everyone to hear it.
So the first thing I want to dois I want to talk to me about,
I want to tell everybody yourjourney from you know being in
Albany, georgia, to thenteaching you know-country, like
well it's.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
It's really a more of like a small town to a big city
kind of adventure.
Um, my grandmother was aneducator uh, my, my whole life
up until she retired.
When I was in eighth grade andwhen I decided on going to
school, I ended up going to theschool my mother graduated from,
which is Albany StateUniversity, and I had one of the

(03:47):
most fantastic teachers ever,named Dr Dangua.
He recently passed away thisyear.
He was my favorite teacher, mypolitical science dad.
He always mentioned howpolitics is, who gets what, when

(04:07):
, where and how and I alwaysthought, when I get like 45, I
want to be a professor too.
And, funny enough, that journeycame a little sooner than I
thought.
It would be 20 years sooner.
Actually, I was 25 when Idecided to go into education.
I had recently got my master'sfrom FAMU and a job opening

(04:34):
popped up at.
I got the job to teach a fullyear of US-Georgia government
and I think halfway through thatsemester, another college
reached out to me and said hey,I would love for you to teach

(04:56):
political science at our collegefor a high school dual
enrollment class and at ourcollege, and then that summer in
2019, I also got to teach at abranch location over the summer
as well and, like we mentionedbefore, like being adventurous,
I got an email that was likelet's go teach in South Korea.

(05:20):
This is what you need.
This is how you do it.
Boom, I end up missing thefirst interview and then going
there.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
Yeah, so let's rewind a little bit.
Talk to me about how it feltfor you, because you have this
vision of, like you know, beingreally old at 45 years old.
I won't take that personally Todoing it in your mid twenties
for people who were fairly closein age to you Like how did you

(05:50):
navigate that?
What did you learn about theprocess and the profession?

Speaker 1 (05:55):
and yourself.
Oh.
So let's just say the firsttime or the second time, even
when I walked into the classroom, people would say, hey, where's
the teacher?
And I say, oh, people would say, hey, where's the teacher?
And I say, oh, that's, that'sme, I'm the teacher.
And they're like, how, how, how, you're like 25.
And I said, well, all you needis a master's to teach college

(06:17):
level classes.
I have a master's, here we are.
So that was a littlenerve-wracking because now I'm
gonna be other side of theclassroom and how I went about
and how I navigated, that was Ifirst built some rapport.

(06:38):
You know asking everybody.
You know what are you doing,what's your name, where you're
from, what are you studying?
What are you doing, what's yourname, where you're from, what
are you studying, what do youhope to accomplish?
And then at the very end I saidraise your hand if you are
studying political science.
Out of my first class was like40, 42, 45 students.
Three were political sciencemajors.

(07:00):
So now I'm going to speak to 40something people who don't care
about politics and navigatingthat was a little tricky, but
what I ended up doing wasbringing it to a personal level.
That required a lot of thinkingoutside the box and curiosity

(07:23):
about what goes on and how itplays with political science.
So, for example, I would say Iwould go through the lesson
about 45 minutes left.
In the class I say we're goingto watch this video from Vox and
it's going to be about, andit's going to be about how

(07:44):
Western African people aremigrating through Morocco to try
and get into a city that'sactually owned by Spain, that's
on the coast of Morocco.
So I want you to tell me howthis is going to affect US
relations with Europe and withWestern Africa and with Morocco.

(08:05):
So we're going to talk aboutthese things as a conversation
so I can stretch your braincapacity to say just because
it's not happening in the USdoes not mean it's not going to
affect me.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
I love that you had enough awareness to create both
an opportunity for learning butan appetite for people to care
beyond their current context.
I think a lot of times, notonly in education but in
business, we can stay so laserfocused about what's myopically
around us and not lookingoutside to figure out the second
and third box consequences tothings that are happening.

(08:43):
That's really a smart move onyour part Now.
Now you did all this teachingin the States super early and
you were, you know, in highdemand, and then you get shipped
abroad.
Talk to me about Korea.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
Oh, let's just say, the first time I got there I
immediately got my visa canceled.
So, um, after flying on LaborDay, that was my first time
getting this close to businessclass.
I was in Delta One.
Thanks to some wizardry andgood luck, I flew to South Korea

(09:21):
.
I landed in Seoul and I took anairline from Seoul to Fukuoka,
to Jeju, where I was going towork.

Speaker 2 (09:34):
But how did you get the call to even come?

Speaker 1 (09:38):
The call to come.
Well, let's say January early2019.
Let's say January early 2019.
I received I was trying to workin China, actually, and I kept
doing interviews all through2018 because I wanted to expand
my Mandarin.
Like I had been studyingMandarin, I was, you know, gonna
get my Zhongwen really highlike skill level, and I Got an

(10:03):
email that said and I got anemail that said teach abroad in
Harbin, china.
And I work as a universityteacher teaching English in
Harbin and something told me notto do it.
I looked at the opportunity.
It was a great opportunity.
I decided not to take it.

(10:23):
Then, about a week later, I getanother email that's like teach
English in South Korea, getyour TOEFL certificate through
this program.
And that's I remember saying,oh, all the interviews that I
was doing in China, they keptmentioning this TOEFL
certificate or this TEFLcertificate.
And that email had it in theresaying, oh, we'll help you get

(10:44):
it as well.
So, and they have, you get ajob certificate is.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
Tell them what a TOEFL certificate is all right.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
So it is a teaching English as a foreign language
certificate, so t-e-f-l, but insome countries it's TOEFL,
because that's the um onethrough the, the EU, or CELTA I
think it's three of them thatyou can use, and some countries

(11:11):
only allow you to have 90 hours,120 hours or 150 hour
certificate and you can't getjobs in certain countries if you
don't have some minimums.
So if you want to go to chinaor korea or japan, um and some
other uh southeast asiancountries, 120 is the minimum

(11:33):
that you need.
If you want to go to saudiarabia, eu, I'm not you the uh
emirates, um oman and those theymight require, like $120 or
$150, depending on theuniversity or the school or the.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:50):
So it's a certification to teach English
as a foreign language in aforeign country.
So they're recruiting peoplewho are teaching to go and go
abroad.
You get the bait, you take thebait, you decide not China, but
Korea, and you're on a plane.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
Right, with the ambition that because Korea is
so close to China, I could justgo to China.
But that's another bag of wormsGeographically challenged.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
they are not the same place.

Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yes, and we're talking about South Korea,
because that is another questionthat comes up.
People will say I hope youwasn't in North Korea and I said
no, obviously as an American wecan't even go there anymore.
So South Korea is where I wasand I get there and I have a job

(12:40):
with the Korean government'sdepartment of well, the
provincial office of education,or as the department of
education for that particularprovince, jeju, and I was going
to be working at the Shin Jejuforeign language center, which
is one of five major centersthat provide English education

(13:02):
to students who are not in theprivate school English education
program on the side at theclass.
So once they get out ofelementary school, high school,
middle school, they go to thesethings called hagwons, which are
like private academies, whichare mostly privately owned, and

(13:22):
they pay an absurd amount ofmoney just so that they can
level up English, mathematics,piano, things that would help
them excel in certain not skills, but their tests for graduating
middle school that selects thehigh school that you go to and

(13:43):
the high school test that canreally determine what college
you get into.
So these Hogwarts are basicallyintegrated into society to
supplement those big tests theyhave coming up as academic
milestones.
So the one I worked at wasgovernment.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
The landscape educationally is competitive
right Beyond competitive.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yes, Okay, Like a little tidbit I'll say, is they
have a education system and alot of East Asia has an
education system and I believeSoutheast Asia too.
That is built on this Confuciansystem.
So I also studied Chinesehistory at one point.

(14:27):
So the Confucian system isbasically there were these three
massive books in Confucianismthat you needed to memorize by
heart.
And then you go to the empireof China, the king's court or
the emperor's court, and youwould take these exams and if

(14:49):
you took the exam and wassuccessful in passing like
Confucian thoughts written, allthese different tests, you could
literally bring your villageout of poverty, like
single-handedly, single-handedly, and so you would have people
developing, like all thevillagers would bring all their
money together in somesituations to fund the education

(15:10):
of one brilliant child thatwould go on to take these exams
and hopefully pass to bringtheir village out of poverty,
and so that kind of mindsetaround education kind of
prevailed.
Where you have these majormilestones of my middle school
test determines what high schoolI can get into and my high

(15:33):
school test determines whatmiddle I mean what college I can
get into, and you only get oneshot.
So you can kind of imagine thepressure once you hit seventh
grade, which is what middleschool starts.
You can kind of imagine thepressure once you hit seventh
grade, which is when middleschool starts.
I have to do this, or else I Imight not.
You know, the honor to myfamily or to myself, or you know

(15:57):
the things I want to strive tobecome is very heavy on on the
youth really, and so you're.
You're just running to a lot ofkids that say the thing I want
to do most on my vacation issleep, because when I leave
school I am in a hagwon from 3,30 to 10 o'clock at night
studying and I think thatcontext is really important, in

(16:21):
contrast to some of our otherguests, because the foundation
of philosophy in where you wereteaching is so much different
than potentially here, statesideright.

Speaker 2 (16:31):
So an entire system of philosophy and education
that's based on confucius thephilosopher from you.
Know what is it?
400 bc or whatever the timeframe is?
Right you to now that stillstands as an indoctrinated part
of the culture and shapes theconcept of education itself

(16:52):
being the chief thing.
So you go from kind oflaissez-faire american to like
no, this is like, this is warand you're here to win, yes, and
from an education perspective,right as an educator and and not
even like a veteran educatorlike you, like two years in
brand I was brand new right, sowhat?

Speaker 1 (17:16):
yeah, I was one year, uh, one year at two
universities, and then I diveright into ESL.
Uh well, english as a secondlanguage abroad.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
And the pool from an educational requirements
perspective.
So you find yourself dry landoverseas, with your visa revoked
.
What happens next?

Speaker 1 (17:42):
I ended up having to take a flight to Japan and
staying in Tokyo to get a newvisa to come back into the
country and then start working.
After that point it was justluckily they provide apartments
by law.
If you work in Korea as anEnglish teacher, they have to
provide housing.
Korea as an English teacher,they have to provide housing.

(18:03):
So I had a house.
I had a nice apartment in thecenter of the metropolitan area
and the major city on the island, not too far from any public
transportation, and, crazyenough, it was so many things

(18:23):
that happened prior to megetting to Korea.
But let's just say I only had$100 in my account.
So, because I was in Taiwanpreviously doing lessons about
Mandarin history, culture ofTaiwan and how it's related to
China, going to their statedepartment and so on and so
forth, one of the lessons Itaught at college was a video

(18:44):
about what's the protest thatwas going on and so forth.
One of the lessons I taught inat college was a video about
what's the protest that wasgoing on in Hong Kong and how
Hong Kong has this very bigprotest culture.
So, as I'm leaving Taiwan myvisa not my visa my flight gets
delayed because of a typhoonlanding me in Hong Kong during
said protest that shut down theairport that day I was supposed

(19:10):
to leave.
So I'm staying in one of themost expensive cities in the
world for an additional threedays and then coming back to
Atlanta after buying a fullprice ticket back to Atlanta to
stay for one week to pack mybags and then eventually come to
Korea after picking up my visa.
So I was low on funds.
Oh, I was low on funds.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
So here's my question and was any of that?
Was any of that a signal Likemaybe I shouldn't, a signal like
maybe I should?

Speaker 1 (19:51):
you know what god is trying to tell you something?
Um, let's just say and I keepsaying, let's just say but my
mom did not raise a quitter, andneither did my grandma, my
grandmother.
So those two people have, uh,tenacity and ambition unlike any
other people I've ever met inmy life and so ingrained in me.
If something goes wrong, hello,grandma, mom, anybody.

(20:13):
Let's talk through this andlet's see how this is supposed
to work.
But this is not a quittingmoment.
This was a moment in, let's say, self-sharpening, honing those
resilience skills.
Yeah, honing resilience.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
I don't know Daphne, I probably wouldn't have been
like look, let me tell yousomething.
I don't know.
I don't believe in quittingeither.
I do believe in planned exits.
Right, but go ahead.
So you didn't quit, you chosenot to quit.
All right, you.
You get back on the plane afterspending all your money and
getting there with a hundreddollars.

Speaker 1 (20:50):
Right, and so I get there at a hundred dollars.
I I first thing I do anytime Igo to any country is pick the
road from my hotel and walkstraight.
I want to know what is in thatarea, and so I walked out my

(21:10):
hotel, I walk straight, I keptwalking straight as far as I
could, and then I go getsomething to eat, I turn around,
I come back next day, I walkstraight in a different
direction and that way at leastI know what is in that general
vicinity of where I am.
At the end of maybe my freetime because there was a holiday

(21:31):
the day I landed I went to workand I was introduced to my
coworkers.
Two were from the US, one wasfrom Australia and one was from
Canada, and they're all Englishteachers and they have
experience from three years toeight years and, no, I think, 10

(21:51):
years.
And I'm working with thesepeople and they're giving me the
rundown like, hey, this is howit happens, this is how we
communicate with the director.
We have to go through thecoordinator.
Coordinator, because she iskind of our de facto translator
sometimes, or she is the onethat kind of changes what you

(22:13):
say into a more Koreancommunication style so that you
don't come off as maybe likedisrespectful because Americans
have more of a direct andindirect communication style.
So we will tell you that wedon't like something, but we
won't be.
This is bad.

(22:34):
We'll say it's not exactly whatI'm looking for.

Speaker 2 (22:36):
It's more passive, aggressive.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
We're trying to be polite, but we're also trying
not to.
Yeah, and a lot of othercultures is like no, it sucks
and this is fine.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
Right, absolutely.
And so I'm working in Korea,which uses a circular
communication style, so theywant you to, or they feel
there's a word for it, I can'tremember it starts with a D, but
I can't remember the word butbasically it means to feel.
You're supposed to feel what'sgoing on.

Speaker 2 (23:09):
So when somebody says oh, you're supposed to emote or
like intuit and understand yes.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
So if I say, how is this, how is this project, hmm,
you should make some changes,but I'm not going to tell you
exactly what to change.
I'm just going to say, hmm, itcould be better, and that's it.

(23:39):
So you have to understand whatthat means and make it better or
make some adjustments and thengo back, or they won't say they
don't like something.
They'll say something veryvague that means that they don't
like it and that's just notwork life.
That's a lot of people I've metin that situation that could

(24:09):
understand that were the onesthat lived abroad, in um, like
in the US, uh, whether they wentto high school, middle school,
they kind of understand how tonavigate when they work with
another American.
But when you're on the oppositeend and I've lived, I've
studied abroad in Japan, I'vebeen to these other Asian
countries and I understand howto navigate it.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
But working in that situation is a lot different
from just being a student inthat situation or being a
tourist or, you know, in anon-professional sense and those
spaces is very temporary, right, you're in a very temporary
space, but when you are employed, you are a part of that

(24:50):
community, and so what I'mhearing is you know, the
circular communication it's Iwould assume it's based on a lot
of non-verbals, right?
So, if you're neurodiverse,you're probably having a whole
hard time because you can't readpeople's faces.
Then, or diverse, you'reprobably having a whole hard
time because you can't readpeople's faces.
Then I would also assume, youknow, based on the context of
the country, it also hassomething to do with like
balance and inner peace, like wedon't want to disrupt the

(25:13):
harmony.
Yes, so like how?
So so how does that play intoyou having a bad boss?
Does that play into you havinga bad boss?

Speaker 1 (25:23):
Well, the director of my education center.
He came from accounting.
He was not a education, he wasnot a principal, not a.
He was not a teacher, he wasjust an accountant.
And they put him over a center.

(25:44):
And he was just an accountantand they put him over a center
and he just happened to be putin the best performing center on
the island.
So they have this thing we'rein Shinjeju.
Shinjeju Shin means new in somecontext.

(26:04):
So in a new part of the citythat's more residential, more
they care about academics more,so much more things.
And then the main center is ingu, which means old.
So here in the old part of thecity, part of the city, and

(26:27):
every time we have a meetinghe's like oh, what is the goo
center doing?
Goo, goo Center.
And and we're like we're betterthan them.
Why do we care what they'redoing over there?
We have more kids at, in betterschools and, you know, better
performing.
They are doing their own thingand they're part of the island,
they serve us in their community.
We shouldn't worry about that.

(26:49):
But when it came to speaking tomeetings with the other center
leads, he would fold when weadvocate to the coordinator.
She talked to him and say, hey,the teachers think this is how
we can best service the studentsin this region of the island.

(27:11):
He would go great, I like that.
And then when he'd get up tomeet the other chain of command,
he would fold, because you alsobased in Confucianism, you have
to.
Uh, you have this thing calledfilial piety, which is knowing
your place in society.

(27:31):
So I think, funny enough, a lotof um in the U S, a lot of
minorities, have filial pietyand don't know it.
So that is knowing therelationship between your mother
and the daughter, or the fatherand the son, or the pastor and
the congregation, or the kingand the citizens.

(27:56):
This is filial piety.
So in the situation and thisone is-.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
Wait, wait, wait.
You can't keep going, you gotto stop there, gotta stop there,
you gotta stop.
That's like a bomb, right like.
So I'm thinking, um, y'all, I'mgonna bring you into my
personal life, my son's autistic.
I say I've said this in acouple of different contexts, in
a couple differentconversations and I've never
been able to put a label on itin terms of a one multi-syllabic
word of like what he's doing,right, I always say he's just

(28:24):
not a respecter of persons.
He don't care who you are, hedon't care where you've been, he
don't care how much money youmade.
He's going to tell you like, oh, you stink, or oh, you're in my
way, or get out.
He just has no frame of conceptof both hierarchy or position.
You know, the other day we werehere and we were out and he
called my mom by her first nameand I thought he was going to

(28:46):
lose his life.
And because he's the grandchildthat didn't happen because
grandparents have so much moremoney than she thought.
It was funny and I'm like but Iwould have died in 1980,
whatever, had I ever called youby your first name.
But I love this, this notion offilial piety and how it shows

(29:06):
up both in working situationsand cultural situations, and
religious, Like I'm done, Likewe're done now guys, we know
where we're going.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
Any takeaway?

Speaker 2 (29:20):
Yeah, like that's amazing, right.
And I have to think about yourfinance leader who's in
education with no educationbackground.
I would imagine him knowingthat he didn't know what he was
doing.
He just folded anyway becausehe didn't want to smoke, because
he didn't know what to do.
Now that is not cultural andthat is legit.

(29:41):
that is a bad boss trait Likepeople get hired for many
different reasons, and probablyhe was somebody's favorite
finance guy and he was beingmoved out of the way.
So they put him over here, orhe won a bet or whatever it was.
He wasn't qualified for therole and, rather than him, have
enough self-awareness andhumility to say I don't know

(30:06):
this, but let me learn, let melearn from people, let them
educate me, whatever, because Ifeel like leadership, trans
leadership skills aretransferable.
So if he wasn't a good leaderin finance, he's not gonna be a
good leader in education,because it's really about
judgment, not about knowing theeducation system, and so for me
that's a red flag.
Like he, you know, he wasn'twilling to listen to y'all and

(30:30):
and my other things you said wasfunny to me is his desire to
copy someone else's paper from adifferent district because
because he didn't know what hedidn't know Right.
It reminds me of many years ago.
It was, I think it was a SuperBowl commercial where you see
these guys in a conference room.
They're like I wonder what theguys at such and such company

(30:53):
are doing.
And then they pan to anothercompany I wonder what the guys
at such is like.
I wonder what the guys atGlaxoSmithKline are doing or
whatever Right, because likethey're all like churning over
these regurgitated ideas becausethey don't have any.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
Right, not a single thought in that room.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
Not a single, not a single original thought.
Right, that happened and itreally that sucks, because you,
as the professional, want to beable to add to the conversation,
but the powers that be won'tlet you Exactly.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
And that's just one aspect.
So imagine we're switching toonline learning because of covid
and oh, so you were there doingcorona, okay oh yeah, it was I.
I got there before corona okayand then life, life like, took
turns in in that year, but Ienjoy staying in Korea.

(31:47):
I think I made a great decisionby staying against the wishes
of my family who called me andsaid you sure you want to stay
over there?
And I said I'm going to take mychances over here.
I think my chances of survivalare significantly higher.
Not even by thin margins, Imean exceedingly high margins of

(32:08):
survival.
I was up there.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
All of the United States, of Americans that are
listening to this podcast, allof my fellow Americans.
Don't brush me with the country.
We was just in a veryinteresting time at that time
with the not vaccine, thevaccine, the mask and no mask,
the half a mask.
Just leave us alone.
Yeah, we pray God for those ofus who were able to survive.

(32:36):
We pray for those who were not,and don't you don't have to rub
it in our face.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
I'm sorry.
I just think they did a reallygood job at what did they do
differently?
Daphne, tell us what youlearned.
All right, what they diddifferently.
First, we have contact tracing.
So if I went into a store, Ihad a QR code on my mobile app
that they all use called KakaoTalk.
I scan in on my QR code, saythat I was there, I go shopping,

(33:08):
I do whatever I want.
Also, second, there's a cultureof wearing masks if you're sick
, period.
So you don't want to spread itbecause, keeping harmony in
society, I don't want to getother people sick.
I still want to go, but I don'twant to get people sick.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
I want to stop there.
I think if we could pull thethread, and I'll make just a
general assumption.
The idea of community itself isso indoctrinated in the culture
, and the desire to perpetuateand keep community safe made it
easier for your community tonavigate it.

Speaker 1 (33:46):
Yes, and that alone.
But if I could keep going I canmake it crazier.
So if somebody was, sick andlet's say they was in the same
shopping center as me.
I would get a message and sayhey, if you were in the shopping
center at this day around thistime, consider going to go get
tested, because there was aconfirmed case that came through

(34:08):
that store.
If I was to get sick, thegovernment would pay not only my
entire salary, I got free.
I had free health care becauseI I'm in Korea single-payer free
health care, $60 a month crazy.
So I I would go to the doctor,I mean the hospital, until I

(34:31):
recovered, or maybe not, and Iwould that all be paid for.
If I was had mild cases and Ineed to stay home in quarantine,
they would literally send a twoweek box with a thermometer
food medicine to my door andthen I would take it in.

(34:51):
I would cook, I would eat, Iwould do whatever, and then,
when I feel better, I go backinto society.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
And that's just a little bit.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
There's like so many more things, but that's the
three or four I talk about.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
And, in contrast, I remember people having
conversations like yeah, I feelsick, but I don't know if I'm
going to tell them.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
I'm going to need you to tell somebody.
I couldn't even go in schoolwithout the heat scan to see if
I had a fever, and then I had towrite my temperature on a piece
of paper.
Then, and then I had to writemy temperature on a piece of
paper.
Then they could say oh yeah, onthis day when such and such was
sick, he taught this classroom,everybody in that classroom

(35:35):
going home, and that's it.
Like I think my semester endedwhen I switched jobs to the
public school side in Korea.
When a teacher got sick, theysent everybody home.
They was like oh, the school isabout to end in a week for
winter vacation, anyway, sendeverybody home.
Everybody, everybody go home andthen you'll just teach them
online.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
So you started, you.
You started like you got.
You know, in the middle of thepandemic, you have this leader
who's a leader in position butnot in profession.
Yes, yes, and you find yourselftrying to navigate both the
cultural differences andlearning your profession yeah,
in a foreign country, like howmuch more did you have to learn

(36:18):
the hard way in terms of havinga leader?

Speaker 1 (36:20):
that's that how much more did I have to learn, I
think, think those are thereally two, the two hardest
parts.
But I guess, if I could say athird thing, it would be
learning about myself.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
One thing Wait before you go there.
Didn't we talk about yougetting like performance
feedback?
That was really-.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
Oh yes.
So if I could take a step backfrom that question and go in
this direction.
Yeah, when I first joined thatcenter, there was a performance
review that's supposed to be hadfor all teachers every six
months.
The reason why I had aninterview at that company in the

(37:01):
first place well, not company,that center in the first place
was because a teacher had leftto go work in Egypt and her
position was open and Iinterviewed for that role and
got her job.
Her review was coming up inNovember.
I had just started working inmid-September.

(37:25):
I am one and a half months intoteaching in a foreign language.
I mean teaching English to kidswho some understand English,
some don't.
Teachers is coming in and theysay oh well, usually it's six
months, but because we're doingeverybody here, we'll just do
you right now.
We'll just teach right now.

(37:46):
We'll just ask you to do, doyou right now, we'll just teach
right now.
We'll just ask you to do thereview right now.
So not only am I nervous, butI'm still figuring out how to do
my job really well.
And they I do the class I teach.
Kids love it, obviously, butthe I get my feedback and they
said oh, you're not performingto the standard that we want,

(38:09):
because we felt like some of thethings that are lessons that
you did were a little bit moredifficult than what we think the
kids should be getting into.
Um, or you did this thing andthis is kind of what we want in
a way, but they said, because wedid your review too early, that
we know it's too early, we'regoing to give you another shot.

(38:30):
Coincidentally, my second shotwas when we transitioned to
teaching English on the internetbecause of COVID, so kids are
at home in a classroom, so myreview comes one month after we
switched to online learning, thething that every teacher on the

(38:52):
planet was learning how to dothrough the month of March.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
Everybody was on the shuttle bus.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
Right.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
Those of us who were parenting at home, trying to
make the kid do the work andstay in front of the computer
while they were doing work.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
A thousand percent, a thousand percent.
And so I am trying to get mylesson concrete.
I'm getting feedback oh, thisis how the lesson should go.
Talking to the other people atthe center, I did my review, um,
and then I get another oh, thisis not, this is not what we

(39:30):
wanted.
Oh, you didn't do well.
And I was like, of course, Ijust started teaching virtually
like three, four weeks ago.
It's not going to be perfect,um, and so, as we move from
there, we had a I believe thatwas like April, so when we get

(39:51):
into June, time like June.
It was this, uh, how would I say, this demonstration room that
we also?
We bring a lot of students infrom different schools and then
they watch a demonstration ofhow to navigate certain

(40:13):
situations in English, such asordering food in restaurants,
booking a hotel I mean checkinginto a hotel, going into an
airport and getting and boardingyour plane.
So I, when I first joined, Iwas at the restaurant, but in
this case they wanted me to makea new lesson for the airport
and literally, when you wentdownstairs into the building,

(40:34):
there was a room that had anairport kind of like a security
door and a room that had seatsthat you were entering into an
airplane.
So I'm making the lesson for it.
I'm saying, hey, let's go.
We're're gonna go tonon-western countries per se.
We're gonna go to the USbecause all kids know US.
We're gonna go to Brazilbecause they love soccer and

(40:57):
they love the Brazil team.
Um, we're gonna go to Greenlandand talk about like penguins or
something, just like justmaking, you know, making stuff
up.
So I have the one ticket, please, you know, going through
security, have a seat.
Here's your seat.

(41:18):
You know the whole lesson andI'm giving a demonstration to
the director, the coordinator,the other teachers, the other
teachers like it.
They're like this is good.
The director, the coordinator,the other teachers, the other
teachers like it.
They're like this is good.
The director, hands crossed,hmm.

Speaker 2 (41:31):
The finance guy director.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
Finance guy.
He's like hmm, and then heleaves after the thing is over,
and then the coordinator saysDaphne, I don't think he likes
it.
He says you should make somechanges.
What changes Exactly?
I don't know what changes.

(41:53):
So I go make some changes.
I say, okay, I talk to theother teachers.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
I'm sorry, maybe I'm petty, but I probably want to
change the font on the paper.
No, I think it's.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
I don't know the word but I probably would have, like
I don't know, changed the fonton the paper?

Speaker 2 (42:07):
No, you don't.
I think it's.

Speaker 1 (42:09):
I don't know the word , but you have to.
You have to feel it.
You have to feel the changesthat you're supposed to make.
And so I'm saying okay, thecoordinator is like.
He said something about thecountries.
He felt like it's too manycountries.
I reduced the number ofcountries to from five to three,
streamlined it, Because youdon't want the same.

(42:30):
I don't want the sameexperience every single time as
well as I want to give thestudents, when they talk to like
other friends that go todifferent schools.
I was like, oh, when we picked,we went to this place and you
went to like US, we went toBrazil.
Um, just to give you likeoptions, and I have the
powerpoint set up to where, whenI clicked on it, it took you to

(42:50):
a separate section of thepowerpoint so that you can go
have like a different image yeah, I changed the countries, I
streamlined it a little bit more.
I present it again Same thing.
You should make some morechanges, but what changes are we

(43:13):
trying to make?
And it was literally driving mecrazy, because not only did I
have a bad review, I felt likethe situation, I was like messed
up from the bad review not once, but twice.
I'm also in a situation whereI'm incredibly frustrated by
just the lack of communicationthat I could get, in a situation

(43:33):
where I'm in like redemptionmode.
I feel like, and so he justdoesn't give me any feedback and
it just it just drives methrough a wall and I, ultimately
, they were like oh, we're justgoing to scrap the whole thing
because you're still online andwe were hoping that COVID was

(43:55):
supposed to, you know, die downor something, so we're just not
going to do it.
So not only did I make changes,you also canceled the whole
thing altogether and I just feltlike work that you never get to
produce.
Exactly exactly.
And July has come around andwe're like halfway through July

(44:19):
and I sent an email to thecoordinator.
I was like, hey, I know, mycontract renewal thing is
supposed to come up.
It's like, hey, I know mycontract renewal thing's
supposed to come up.
I haven't gotten anything backfrom the director about anything
.
It's been like a month.
She comes to my office directly, almost hand on shoulder, tear

(44:45):
in her eye, and was like we'renot going to renew your contract
.
I, if you need help, let meknow I will.
I will do my best to help you.
So now I'm in shambles.
I'm in shambles of a.
I'm a, I'm a fragment of a man.
I used to be in thisconversation because I felt like

(45:05):
I was just fragment of a man.
I used to be in thisconversation because I felt like
I was just slapped in the face,front hand, back hand, uppercut
, I don't know.
So, um, yeah, that that's kindof where I'll stop with like
that, that boss situation, thatthat is that the performance
management situation.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
So they're trying to manage your performance without.
Did you ever like send anyemails like hey, listen, I got
this from you.
This is does this sound right?
Did you try to like do a backand forth checking or?

Speaker 1 (45:37):
um, I went through the channel of my coordinator
because my Because the hierarchyyes, so I had to communicate
through the chain and also thecoordinator spoke English, the
director zero.

(45:58):
So even if I tried to with theKorean that I had learned while
being there, I would not havemuch to really talk to him about
or nor have the vocabulary todescribe the nuance to have that
communication.
That's a big barrier.

(46:18):
Right, it is huge Because shewas the only one that spoke
English in the wholeadministrative office.
Everybody else barely spokeenglish.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
They knew some, but not like enough to have like a
full conversation with so youhave a barrier in communication
on many levels, but then youhave to ask about your contract
before they come and tell youthat you ain't going to have no
job, no more.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
True.
I think what she told me was hedidn't want to let me down and
so he kind of pushed it all tothe side.
But my contract expires inSeptember.
I will have to go home to theUS.
What does she mean?

(47:08):
I'm not ready to go back.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
He was going to fire you.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
He was going to fire you.
Yeah, I was like you're firingme, bro.
Chill, it's already done.
I'm sorry, I'm stuck there.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
So how I would interpret this, you asked me you
didn't, but I'm going to tellyou anyway because it's my show.
So what I would interpret is hedoesn't like conflict.
He made the decision probablyon the first iteration of your
little airport exercise.
Right, yeah, but he didn't wantto tell you that.
He didn't want to experiencethat.
A lot of times leaders willmake a decision.

(47:45):
They will make the decisions upfront.
I said this is when we didepisode seven in the last season
, which is when it comes toperformance management.
It was six.
You know, most leaders willdetermine right before they put
you on that pit that they don'twant you anymore right bad
boyfriend like I know I don'twant this girl, but we're going
to keep her here until I can geta new one Like it's bad.

(48:06):
He knew I'm assuming I'm justNatalie's picture.
You jump through all of thosehoops and he didn't want the
conflict of having to deliverthat message.
And so he did it, because whathe could have done is had the

(48:31):
administrator there right, theassistant there and had the
conversation like, tell him this, tell him this, tell him this.
But he didn't, which to me seemsa bit disrespectful.
But again, culturally I can'tsay.
I don't want to superimpose myvalues into.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
We're still in shock, but again culturally, I can't
say, I don't want to superimposemy values into it.
We're still in shock, but Ithink ultimately it was a saving
grace.
It was a saving grace why isthat?
Because in that moment, becauseit was COVID, they could not
bring any teachers into thecountry.

(49:05):
Because it was COVID, theycould not bring any teachers
into the country, and so somepeople had decided to leave, to
go back to their home country,and they had a shortage of
teachers to fill certain roles.
Nice.
So one day I'm on Facebook, onthe Facebook group for the
teachers that all the teachersthat's on the island, the ones

(49:28):
that work at the internationalschools, the one that work at
the hagwons, the ones that workfor the public schools and the
foreign language schools I seeone that says, hey, we're
looking for teachers that gowork for EPIC, which is the
English program in Korea, whichis funded through the government
, in Jeju specifically, and theyalready live here and they

(49:55):
don't need to do anything.
I literally turn in my exactapplication to that foreign
language center, because it wasthrough the government, so it
had the same application, turnthe same thing in.
I talked to the coordinator.
I tell her, hey, I'm doing this.

(50:16):
She says all right, great, thelady calls her the coordinator.
The coordinator says I loveDaphne, he's such a great person
, blah, blah, blah.
And the lady says great, Iliterally get a job working in a
different department of theforeign I mean of the POE or the

(50:38):
Provincial Office of Education.
So I just go and just switchunder to the public school side,
which put me about an hour awayfrom my current apartment, and
I live on the southern part ofthe island in an area called
Sogipo.
Sogipo is more relaxed, it'smore small town, even though

(51:01):
it's like the second largestcity on the island, but smaller
time, smaller bite.
People are way more friendly,because now you're even more
farther south than you were andyou know as you go south in most
countries, the friendlierpeople get.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
So that's actually not a lie.
Being a northerner now,southern bell is very true, very
, very true.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
So I'm even more South than I was.
So even the North part peopleare friendly.
But now I'm more South thanthat, so they're more friendly
and I have more stable hoursbecause I was working literally
from 8.30 to 3.30, versus 11 to6 some days or 8 to 3.

(51:49):
So my schedule was stabilizedand I was able to have more free
time and get back into MuayThai, which was something I had
picked up before I moved toKorea, and it worked out.
And that's why I say theadventure can't stop the
resilience.
When you're met with thesehurdles, you just jump over them

(52:10):
or, in my case, punch a holethrough it because Muay Thai and
you just go right through thewall.
Because if I had stopped withthat review and went home, I
don't think a lot of doors thatI was able to open for myself
would have opened if I had gaveup.

(52:30):
So when I saw that message, Iluckily and this is one thing
I'll say I had luckily built areally good rapport and
relationship with thatcoordinator, like had
conversations with her.
I found out her husband used towork.
Uh, when he joined, when he hadto do his mandatory
conscription for the Koreanmilitary, he worked on a
military base in Camp Humphreysin Korea, and so he had this

(53:00):
favorite soda that I was able toget my hands on because I had a
cousin that worked at CampHumphreys that I had no idea
even existed until I flew toKorea.
So I was able to go on base,buy her husband's favorite soda
and bring it back to her, and soshe's like oh my God, daphne,

(53:21):
you're like the best person ever.
I had built that rapport withher specifically because she
ultimately ended up being myticket out.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
I love that story because I tell people all the
time.
More often than not, folks failat navigating some of these bad
situations because they haven'tbuilt up their assets, they
haven't built up their network,they haven't built up their
advocates who can help themmaneuver these systems.
Because the system is what thesystem is.
You can't get mad at the system.
You can get mad at you notlearning how to navigate and

(53:55):
exploit the system yes and andnot the person.
Not the person.
Don't be used to it.
I'm not telling you to go andbe used to, but the fact that
you were able to connect thedots on like oh, you like that
soda, let me get that soda andbuilding, you know,
like-mindedness in relationship,I think, is incredible.
So tell me, what's one thinglike of all of the things that

(54:18):
you learned out of?
Like all of the dynamics, thecultural, the hierarchy, all of
that Like, what did you learnabout yourself, daphaphne, when
it comes to having lived abroadas an educator.

Speaker 1 (54:31):
Uh, one thing I learned about myself had to be
that I it was.
It was a lot.
I think I was a guy whoultimately was very friendly,
but I really started drawing alot of boundaries with people,

(54:53):
because my friends don't crossmy boundaries, but people who
are not your friends tend toalways try and do just a little
too much.
I'm new Give me an example.

Speaker 2 (55:09):
Give me an example.

Speaker 1 (55:11):
In the workspace.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
Give me an example.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
In the workspace.
I think, at work it was morechill.
At work there was no chill.
This is all outside of workwhich ultimately affected work
sometimes, because then it takesup like mental space and you
can't do your lessons orwhatever.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
Tell me about the boundaries that people will be
crossing.
Tell me.

Speaker 1 (55:32):
I have a zero stress tolerance.
I don't like stress.
I as like external stress.
If it's stress that I kind ofgot myself into, like I applied
for a job and I didn't get a job, that is fine.
But when other people startcreating the stress and then
bringing it to my life andtrying to involve me in that, I

(55:55):
draw the line.
So I was once dating a younglady out there who was Korean,
who had lived and went tocollege in Connecticut.
This is this was like a three,three month kind of thing.
It wasn't like even super deep.
She wasn't even officially mygirlfriend.

(56:15):
She was just a lady who I liked.
But something in the back of mymind was like this is not.
This is this is my first timelike dating another person
outside of my race.
This is gonna be like different.
So I'm taking this with like alot of hesitation, a lot of
precaution.
So she ended up getting into anargument with another foreigner

(56:40):
who was a teacher and a ladyshot a bird at her and she took
that so personally shot a bird,a middle finger flip the flip
her off, flip her off.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
Okay.
I was like I think I know whatthat is sorry, yeah, yeah.
So for the middle finger, why?
Why would?
Why should she take itpersonally?

Speaker 1 (57:04):
I said is this can be resolved if you just either
have a conversation about it orignore her, because she doesn't
matter as a person, she don'tmatter, she's in your country.
You could just let it go, youdon't have to hang around her.
I was like there's so manyforeigners that I've met that I

(57:25):
just dismissed and I don't hangout with you, don't even have to
hang around her.
I was like there's so manyforeigners that I've met that I
just dismissed and I don't hangout with them.
I don't communicate with thembecause they're like outlandish
or foolish or they do things Idon't agree with.
I remember her like escalatingit and she's like, oh, let's go
to this thing because I knowshe'll be there and such and

(57:45):
such.
Or she'll be there and such andsuch, or she'll say, um, I'm
gonna take her to court and I'mgonna do all this.
And I was like please stop it's, it's not that deep.
We really it could be solvedwith just talking.
I was like you're where, you'velived abroad, you lived in the
US, you know how Americans act.

(58:06):
Just handle it like an Americanwould, and this problem would
be resolved so simple.
I was like I could just handleit for you.
No, she wanted to take it tocourt, she wanted to do all of
this, and I was like, yeah, Igot to distance myself from this
situation and ultimately, thatrelationship came and went.

(58:26):
There was a couple other thingsin there too, but I was just
like you, you're not going toinvolve me in this repeatedly.
After I gave you the scenarioor wish that could resolve it,
like the, the resolve it, and amonth passed and you're just
still.
You're just still choosing to,to not resolve it and be and

(58:51):
escalate, and escalate, andescalate.

Speaker 2 (58:54):
Well.
So I think one of the thingsthat comes to mind for me is
that, more often than not,people don't want resolution.
They want to be right, andthere's a difference yeah,
there's a difference betweenwanting to resolve and move
forward and grow for you and theother person, versus I'm more
right than you are, and so I'vegot to one up you and show you

(59:16):
that I'm right and I'm standingon the principle not of the
value, not of the long-term,long game, but of the fact that
I'm more right than you, andthat creates this interesting
dissonance.
I know we're almost at timewhen it comes to the bad boss
situation.
What's one thing that youlearned about Daphne Brown, like
?
What's one thing that, like, Ilearned that you know, I heard

(59:38):
some things about resilience.
I heard some things about thenetworking, like.
What's one other thing for yourown leadership style that
you've learned working?

Speaker 1 (59:46):
like.
What's one other thing for yourown leadership style that
you've learned?
My leadership style that I cameup, that I, I think, works best
for me and that's somethingI've also carried through my uh
MBA program that I pursued postleaving Korea was I want to be a
person who is known for notjust being somebody's boss but

(01:00:09):
advocating for them to be betterat their job and also being
there to help them if they needhelp, and being more of a team
player and leading from withinthan leading from the front, if
that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
It makes complete sense.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
Yeah, I'm going to say kind of like a servant
leader.
But I don't know, I don't, Idon't, I'm not super fond of
that one Very quickly Tell me,why I think some people hear
like servant leader, but theydon't believe in it.

(01:00:47):
They just use it as like abuzzword for their company.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
Oh, wait a minute.
You're mad at the hypocrisy?
Yeah, that's why I don't wantto.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
I don't want to align myself with the hypocrisy of
servant leadership as a title.
I think I genuinely think whenyou're able to build
relationships within you, createstronger work synergy and you
can have people say, you know,be vulnerable, and say if they

(01:01:16):
can't produce something, theyjust don't do it and not tell
you.
They say, hey, something'sgoing on.
I know you well enough you willhope you can understand.
This is how I would like tomove forward with it and how we
can navigate.
You know the team better tocreate the best outcome, and I
guess one example I can giveabout this was I had a.

(01:01:39):
I was the team lead for aconsulting project in Tel Aviv,
the.
We were working with a startupthat had they were running out
of money.
They had a project.
I mean they had a product thatwas doing AI, behavioral
economics and trying tounderstand how we can push more,

(01:01:59):
get customers to buy more whilethey're inside apps, especially
when they're in mobile gamingapps, or, in business terms, you
call them whales.
The whales are the ones whospend the money in the app to
help fund the app itself.
So two of my teammates wereterrible at public speaking and

(01:02:27):
if you have five minutes, youhave five minutes.
You get cut off.
They stammered, they ate up alot of time because they didn't
have, like the, the first publicspeaking skills to navigate
that situation.
And so, as we're working on theproject through, they knew I

(01:02:49):
was a little disappointedbecause I was the anchor, I was
the one that's supposed to sendit home.
I couldn't even get the send ithome because we got stopped.
So they was like, definitelymight be a little mad.
I wasn't mad, I was justdisappointed.
So when I started communicatingI would say you know, hey, I
understand that you are great atstrategy.
Let's move you to strategy andlet's move you up so that if we

(01:03:13):
need to speed up, we can haveyou say things and then I'll
bring myself after because Icould talk through these things
faster and then we can make upfor the time if we do lose it.
But I want you to know we'regonna give you, out of 12 slides
, we're gonna still give you twoslides, but we're gonna make

(01:03:34):
sure we practice on how youcommunicate it and that way we
can deliver the best possiblething to the client and to our
professors that are grading us.
We at the end got the bestpresentation because we also had
the hardest startup to workwith because they had no money,

(01:03:57):
they had no product to sell, sowe actually were set up to fail
from the beginning.
But due to a lot ofinterpersonal skills that I've
learned while I was in Korea andnavigating, and my plethora of
abilities like not abilitiesplethora of travels that I have
been to and interacting withpeople from different countries,

(01:04:18):
I can navigate it with a lotmore sympathy, empathy and
nuance.
And also, just being mynaturally charismatic self, I
can kind of work around certainsituations to be the best team
player and also the best leader.

Speaker 2 (01:04:38):
No, I totally appreciate that, especially when
it comes to utilizing peoplefor their skills and not trying
to keep pressing them in placeswhere they literally obviously
have no skills or at least theyhaven't developed the skills yet
.
I think that's, that'sabsolutely a part of servant
leadership is giving people thegrit, like not being mad or like
, oh my god, you wasted all mytime.
Like, oh well, this went well,but we could have done this

(01:05:00):
better.
It's a balance and trade andand frankly, I think a lot of us
lack diplomacy right, like notonly just the empathy, just the
diplomatic way of not beingcompletely circular but
acknowledging the good with thebad and not throwing the baby
out with the bathwater, you knowto use a phrase.
So, daphne, if there's onething you would want educators

(01:05:23):
at least young educators cominginto the scene that may be
thinking of like following kindof your journey, what would be
the one thing you would wantpeople to know?

Speaker 1 (01:05:31):
I think if anybody was trying to get into higher
education or ESL, you need to bewilling to say yes.
There's a lot of situationswhere you are, for example,
thrown into a foreign land andyou don't speak Korean or you

(01:05:52):
don't speak Thai or you don'tspeak Arabic.
Say yes to going outside andmaking friends that don't look
like you or come from the samecountry as you.
Say yes to going on excursionswith those same friends and I
don't know, going to hike thetallest mountain in South Korea
or do hiking trails around theentire island.

(01:06:13):
There is so much beauty and andI don't know like this Juno
Sequa about and Wanderlust,about just experiencing that,
and whether you get homesick ormiss walking outside and seeing

(01:06:34):
people who look like you,there's still a beauty,
especially as a person of colorI'm a black person at being the
best representation for mystudents to understand how black
people interact with them, sothat when they grow up they
don't see certain stereotypes ofblack people and say, hey, this

(01:06:57):
is not how my teacher actedwhen they were in school, um,
educating me.
I am an ambassador for myethnic group, my race, my
community.
I am being that, so say yes tobeing more than just an
individual.
Say yes to being a part of acommunity.

Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
Daphne.
This has been a really greatconversation.
I want to know, like, what'snext for you, Like what's going
down in Browntown, what'shappening?

Speaker 1 (01:07:28):
Well, right now, post-mba, I am still looking for
full-time work.
It has been a turbulent jobmarket.
However, in the meantime andhaving all this free time, I
have launched a tea and coffeebusiness that will be arriving
this month of July and it'scalled Kwanzaa, which means

(01:07:51):
first in Swahili, because thefirst thing that you think about
when you wake up is my tea ormy morning coffee.
And, yeah, happy to have gotthis far after two years of
planning, execution, going toKenya, going to meet different
farmers, understanding thelandscape and sourcing all of

(01:08:14):
our products from East Africa.

Speaker 2 (01:08:17):
Melissa, I cannot wait to taste my first cup of
Kwanzaa, and we wish you all thebest success.
We're going to make sure wehave all of your connections and
social media handles in theshow notes.
Daphne Brown thanks for beingon the show.

Speaker 1 (01:08:29):
Thank you so much.
It's been a pleasure.

Speaker 2 (01:08:33):
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