S3 E7 Cellular Success: How to Thrive When Your Boss Doesn't Get You (Part 1)

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Dr. Mariska Adams-Cadogon embodies what it means to live with purpose, seamlessly blending her roles as chiropractor, educator, and spiritual leader while making each one look effortless. Her journey from biology researcher to alternative school teacher to administrator reveals how our spiritual gifts manifest regardless of our professional title.

The conversation explores Mariska's fascinating career path, which took unexpected turns when she discovered that laboratory research didn't provide the human connection she craved. A chance car accident introduced her to chiropractic care, launching her into a healing profession where she excelled - sometimes too much for her supervisors' comfort. With remarkable candor, she shares stories of workplace jealousy and the courage it took to walk away from toxic situations, maintaining that "loyalty will always be to God, my family, and myself, and work does not make the list when any of that is in danger."

Perhaps most compelling are Mariska's experiences teaching in alternative schools, where she worked with students others had written off. Her innovative approaches and deep empathy transformed classrooms, resulting in extraordinary academic achievements from students labeled "troublemakers." Through creative teaching methods tailored to what she calls "the haves and have-nots" - bright but bored students and those hiding learning difficulties behind bad behavior - she demonstrated how powerful the right educational approach can be.

Mariska's wisdom about organizational systems resonates far beyond education. Her observation that "systems aren't designed to support individuals; they're designed to accomplish the system's goals" explains why talented people often find themselves pigeonholed. Her advice? "Don't let your credentials go stale waiting for recognition" - sometimes the only path forward requires leaving comfortable positions.

What's your loyalty priority list? Where does work fall on that spectrum? Join us for this powerful, two-part conversation about purpose, resilience, and the courage to create your own path.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I had a seventh grader that he lived with his
mother.
He knew his father for surebecause the father, quiet as
kept and in my observationalopinion, was this boy's father
but also his drug boss, becauseI think he ran drugs for the
father.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Have you ever met someone who could align your
spine, teach a class, singyou're so happy and still show
up with snacks and sparkle Likeshe's got a whole Beyonce
production team behind her?
Well, let me introduce you tomy friend, dr Mariska
Adams-Kotogan Chiropractor,educator, worshiper, wife,
mother, sister and the one andonly Nana to a set of twins who

(00:41):
absolutely adore her.
Mariska is black girl, magicpersonified, blending brilliance
and compassion, degrees anddevotion and a whole lot of
Jesus, with just the rightamount of don't play with me
energy.
A Bennett Bell and my sister ofnearly three decades.
She brings wisdom, wit andwarmth into every room that she
enters, from adjusting bodiesand uplifting spirits, from

(01:05):
leading classrooms to lovingthem deeply, mariska does it all
and makes it look effortless.
In this episode, we celebratesisterhood, purpose and the
power of a woman walking fullyin her light.
If you've ever wondered what itlooks like to live in purpose
with a capital P, then you needto meet Dr Mariska Adams-Kadogim

(01:26):
educator, healer, singer and anall-around force of nature who
reminds us that we can beeverything that we're called to
be.
Get ready for laughs, lessonsand a whole lot of love with my
girl, dr Cadogan.
Hey, girl, hey, I'm so glad tohave you on.

(02:02):
You were probably one of thefirst people I told that I was
going to have a podcast and Iwas like I've got to have you on
.
You were probably one of thefirst people I told that I was
going to have a podcast and Iwas like I've got to have you on
, and so I am glad to have you.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
I'm glad to be here with you always.
You know how much I love you.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
I've been known to show up with snacks and sparking
.
Behind me Two decades.
Two and a half decades Adams,katoka, sure, her wife Madonna.
Two and a half decades.
I feel like you've mastered thebusiness.
Live in purpose.
You've mastered the business.
How does a biology major turnedchiropractor get into education
, get ready for life, girldoctor.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
A biology major turned chiropractor get into
education.
So I think that I'll start bysaying that I tell people all
the time that your spiritualgifts show up, no matter what
your job is and no matter whatmy job has been Dr Cado, teacher
, hey girl.
So that being one of my majorspiritual gifts, it shows to

(03:20):
have you and I also am a seer,and that shows up whether my
hands are touching you or not.
That shows up in conversation.
It shows up whether we'restrangers or best friends.
So, when you look at theoverarching gifts then none of

(03:41):
it is 1997.
It's completely crazy, but onthe level of everyday life it
probably doesn't make sense.
So as a biology major atBennett College, I actually was
studying so that I could be aPhD.

(04:02):
My scholarship Minority Accessto Research Careers from the NIH
actually was preparingminorities to be PhDs and be in
research so that we could havesome folks there for
representation.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
A biology major a chiropractor.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
I had this great scholarship, did a lot of
traveling, so I think that I'llstart by saying I tell people
all the time that your spiritualgifts show up, no matter what
you're doing.
So I was at Wake Forest for awhile and I was doing research
at Wake Forest that had to dowith heart disease, that had to
do with medications, and to meit meant that it helped my

(04:41):
grandma or people like her.
It meant that it helped myneighborhood.
It meant that it helped mypeers to not have to go through
what I saw my grandma go through.
But in bench research, in thatlab setting, you're not allowed
to do that.
You can only talk about themolecule and what the molecule
did and what you saw, but youcannot say what it will do in

(05:03):
the future.
You're not allowed.
Wake Forest was a time that Iknew that I wanted to be a
person who dealt with people,but it wasn't the way that I got
to do it.
So I spent one year in the PhDprogram doing beautiful work in
the lab but not mastering totheir standard the classroom.

(05:24):
Beautiful work in the lab butnot mastering to their standard
the classroom, which, when Itell you this and I think, if
people hear it, if this makesthe cut that a C in a class got
me excused.
So I failed one single test ina class called biochemical
metabolism, and that one singletest C got me excused because I
did not have a 3.0.

(05:44):
A 3.0 was a requirement andthat is what you had to do to
stay.
Now.
It probably took me 15 years tonot well up in tears to tell
somebody that I was excused.
You know, the first five yearsI probably used some verbiage

(06:06):
that made it seem like I justfound out it wasn't for me.
And then the second five years,I made a joke and just said
well, we do put out.
You know so because I'm aperson who likes to succeed.
Well, I was so great in lab andthis is a real story that the
last principal investigator Iworked for asked me please, not
to leave.
Don't leave, please stay andwork for me as a lab technician.

(06:28):
And so I did.
I met a man, and that man livedin Charlotte and became my
starter husband.
So I had to.
That's what I call my starterhusband.
So, anyway, my starter husbandlived in Charlotte and we had
this pact that we would bothlook for jobs and the first

(06:50):
person to find a job in theother city would be the one to
move.
In hindsight I don't think hetried very hard, but the job
that I found was teachingscience in middle school in
downtown Charlotte, and so Imoved to be with my future
starter husband and got intoeducation that way.

(07:10):
One night we're riding along thehighway probably somewhere
around I don't know, 85 orsomething See the sign where
there's a husband and wifechiropractic team.
And he asked me I've neverthought about it Like nah, no,
never thought about it.
Well, I decided to look into itand I opened the phone book age
me and there was a picture ofthis black lady who was just

(07:31):
grinning in her white coat.
That she's a chiropractor and Iwas going to go see her to meet
somebody and understand whatthe field was about.
But before I could get there wehad a car accident and I had to
become a patient.
So I get there as a patient,she fixes me.
I'm like, okay, this is it, Ican do this.
And I moved from Charlotte withmy starter husband to Syracuse

(07:55):
to go to chiropractic college,not because I wanted to live in
upstate New York, but becausethat's where he was from and I
thought it'd be nice for him tobe back with his family again.
Wrong wrong wrong, right, yeah,so I love you guys Browns,
anyway.
So it was a terrible choice togo there for that reason, but
the school itself was good and Ifound myself really falling

(08:18):
right into spaces, understandingthings very well, enjoying my
time there, and chiropracticbecame my thing.
I released my starter husbandbefore I graduated because I
needed to get my name back.
It wasn't working, so Ireleased him and went about

(08:40):
going into my chiropracticcareer.
I went back to Danville,virginia, and ended up opening a
practice.
All the whole time I was inDanville with my practice, my
hustle was substitute teachingand I taught college because I'm
a teacher and in chiropracticschool I was always a teacher
assistant.
I was always a tutor and Iworked for the National Park
Service as a tour guide at theWomen's Rights Museum tour guide

(09:09):
at the Women's Rights Museum.
I'm a teacher and so teachingjust is in me the whole time.
But as I went on in mychiropractic career, I found out
that my mom was ill.
I was living in DC 2010, and Ihad to come home, and the
easiest way for me to come homewas first to be a traveling
doctor.
That's my favorite way of beinga chiropractor I put on my cape
, I sweep in when somebody's onvacation or having a baby or

(09:31):
whatever.
I do my thing and then I get acheck, a decent, a nice check.
And so then my sister goes well, they have an opening in
Danville Public Schools to teachbiology.
I'm like I'm not going back tothe classroom because that one
year in Charlotte and they aboutkilled the system.
Okay, first years are like that, but I didn't know that at the

(09:55):
time and, being the only teacherof 157th graders in downtown
Charlotte in urban area, shoutout Sedgefield Middle School it
was a rough year.
So going to Cairo school was agreat escape to get out of that.
And I'm like I'm not going backto the classroom.
She says to me this is theentirety of what moved me.

(10:16):
She says, girl, you better getthem benefits.
So I was like, okay, I appliedfor the job and the lady God
rest her soul who was in chargeat the time did not want to hire
me.
She did not want to hire mebecause, according to her
standards, I wasn't highlyqualified.
I thought that was crazy.
What were her standards?

(10:37):
What were her standards?
She wanted me to already have a.
Virginia.
Say it again, previousexperience.
No, she wanted me to have aVirginia teaching license
already.
Okay, that was.
I had taught college, I had adoctorate in, you know,
biological sciences, and shesays I was not HQ.

(10:58):
So I went around her, becauseback in those times, I still was
a person who didn't let peopletell me no.
Because how dare you tell me no?
I'm me right, this is me.
So let's just find a way around.
And I contacted a lady who wasmy mentor in high school.
She was an assistant principalat that school.
I said hey, you know I'm tryingto get in, but they're blocking

(11:19):
me, saying I'm not qualified.
She says well, send me yourresume, I'll give it to the
principal.
In a day or two, I get a callsaying that the principal has
requested that I be interviewed.
Right, because I went around andit was an alternative school,
alternative school being gradesseven through 12 who have been
put out of their school.

(11:39):
Maybe that's the spirit that Ifelt for them, because they're
my tribe.
I got put out of Wake Forest.
I got put out of their school.
That just happened to me justnow.
When I got put out in August of2011,.

(12:07):
They called and said you havethe job.
The janitorial staff will letyou in on Saturday morning so
that you can prepare yourclassroom and school starts on
Monday.
And so I did Me, my mother, mysister, my auntie.
We go in there and sweep it upand clean it up and create some
sort of introductory lesson plan.
And at the door on Monday wasme standing there in that white
coat receiving kids that othershad not been able to manage.

(12:31):
Yeah, and I found my travel.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
That is again such a varied, varied set of
experiences.
I want to go back tochiropractic, your chiropractic
practice.
You were first in DC beforeDanville right.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
No, I actually did Danville first, okay, okay.
So I was looking for jobs inChicago.
That was my dream city.
I wanted to live in Chicago andone of my best friends, katina,
lived there.
She was going to be finishingup law school and we were going
to be these roommates, rhoda andMyrtle Moore, except black and
brown and we were so excited.
But I went on all these tripsand went to go see people and I

(13:16):
just could not find a fit for methere.
Yeah.
So after graduation.
My graduation was December 2005.
I came back to Danville and Iended up taking a personal loan
from a family friend to start mypractice.
Yeah, ten thousand dollars, andI started the practice here in
my hometown.
And do you?

Speaker 2 (13:36):
have a license plate that says something about crack.
Who's that?

Speaker 1 (13:39):
That cracker, that cracker.
Yeah, BKCR-R On the Mustang orthe Camaro yes, it was a black
Mustang.
I bought that black Mustangjust before I left Danville to
go to DC.
I didn't know I was leaving andit was a stick shift and I went
from you know little town,Danville, 42,000, everywhere

(13:59):
takes 10 minutes to travelingback and forth to a job.
That actually was 30 miles andtook an hour and a half and a
stick shift on 95.
But it's good stuff because tothis day I can eat a piece of
chicken and put my makeup ondriving six years that's talent,
that's down okay.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
But my, my first recollection of you having a
major, I'd say, work issue wasin DC.

Speaker 1 (14:28):
In DC, absolutely yes , well, actually so, in Falls
Church.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
Okay, so talk to us about the bad experience, or at
least the learning experience,you had with that leader.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
So I worked in Falls Church and I started there as a
covering chiropractor and inthat position I was being paid
by the day and she wanted tohurry and convince me to change
to full time so that I could cutmy money in half or worse.
So you know, people try to puttogether a package and show you

(15:04):
how it's better, andchiropractic has a saying.
They say chiropractors eattheir young, and so when you
come out of school, yeah, theyeat their young.
So they find ways to takeadvantage of your newness in
their practices.
So they have more bodies formore patients, more cases and

(15:25):
paying you little to nothing.
You know, in a lot of places Ihad somebody offer me $24,000 a
year and a bonus package and Ihad left Charlotte as a teacher
making 32, you know this is 2002when I left there making
$32,000.

(15:45):
And then come after a doctoratedegree, somebody's offering me
$24,000.
Which is not a lot of wageanywhere and you're trying to
work to get this bonus.
But bonuses are 52% taxable andso it really doesn't make sense
to do anything based on a bonusbut fast forwarding to when it
got funky.
I will reserve names to protectthe innocent and the guilty,

(16:12):
but a thing that I have alwaysdealt with is envy.
So I will be working super hardto make the vision go that
somebody tells me they want,super hard to make sure that the
people who they are serving,the promises that they have made
, are real.
And once I do that, then Iexperience a lot of envy and I

(16:34):
get backlash from doing what Iwas asked to do.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
And from the person that has hired you From the
bosses.
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
Because they never want anyone to prefer me over
them for a chiropractic office.
It is a sin for a patient tosay, oh well, dr adams isn't
there when I'm not the headperson, right?
So I was dr adamson.
So, um, you know, I actuallyhad one doctor who appreciated
as the a person who I went justto cover he had special days,

(17:05):
just so that he could tellpeople it was going to be me,
because people would come.
And so the person who I wasworking for started to get
jealous and she started toremove cases from me, as if I
wasn't qualified for the cases,to more or less promote her
areas of expertise as she sawthem.
Yes, go ahead the question,because you have a question

(17:26):
that's brewing.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
It's more of a maybe it's a question.
We'll see what happens.
What I've noticed in coaching,consulting people who are highly
technically skilled typicallydon't come with a high level of
I don't know charisma andpersonality.
Right, that's true.
You get them so deep in thatexpertise that to come up for

(17:50):
air and actually deal with thehumans that consume the products
and services is actually quitehard, right?
I would imagine that you know,because you show up so colorful,
because you show up so grand,because you show up owning
spaces, that that's hard for thepeople who you work with,
because they don't show up thatway and they don't understand

(18:13):
the secret sauce of the formula,the blood, sweat and tears that
it takes to show up that way.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
I agree with that Totally.
So it wasn't a question, it wasa statement.
But I agree with that statement100%.
I think what they don't know isit's not easy being green
that's Kermit the Frog but it'snot easy to be who I am, to show
up the way that I do.
It's many years of work,internal work, that has allowed

(18:43):
me to do that, and so I havesurvived a lot of things, and I
don't even like to talk aboutsurvival, I like to talk about
thriving.
So I've pressed my way throughmany, many things from a child
until now, and because I havepressed my way and survived so

(19:04):
many things, I show up in spacessaying nothing can beat me.
And it's not to the person,it's to the situation.
Nothing is going to beat me Ifit scares me.
I'm going to go harder If Ifeel in any way nervous or shaky
.
My mother taught me thatshakiness is like fuel.

(19:26):
When you get jitters, it's anindication that something good
is coming, and so, instead ofbeing knocked down or put aside
by the jitters, put down by thenervousness, I push harder to go
through it, because there aresituations, but truly every day,
you never get it again, and soif I don't take advantage of my

(19:50):
situation today.
Tomorrow is never the same, andhow can I allow nervousness or
embarrassment or the possibilityof what somebody might think
keep me from doing the thingsthat I think are best might
think keep me from doing thethings that I think are best?

(20:11):
And so you cannot be jealous ofwhat you don't know.
You don't know if it's recipe,you don't know what it took, and
so that's why I'm not anenvious person, because somebody
can be right in front of meholding the hope diamond and I'm
like what did they have to doto get it?
Who gave it to you?
And what do you owe?
Um, you know how long do you getto keep it?
Is it cutting your hand?

(20:31):
So you know there's, there'scost to everything, and so for
that reason, I don't usuallyfully understand envy, but I do
understand what you're sayingabout showing up and how people
don't.
But I always, in everysituation, I'm always
encouraging people to,encouraging you to show up.
I believe in 360 degreeleadership, and so I believe

(20:56):
that I can help everybody inevery direction and encourage
them to show up like I doencourage them to show up like I
do, but it doesn't mean itworks.

Speaker 2 (21:08):
But I think part of the challenge that I find also
is not just you being you or mebeing me, but it's also the lack
of authenticity and willingnessto have the conversation about
the discomfort right.
So if I feel like whoa, likewe're doing too much here,
here's what's needed, I can'tcome to you and say, hey, look,
because I don't know how toarticulate it.
People don't know how toarticulate their discomfort and

(21:30):
they don't know how toarticulate or even have a
self-awareness about why they'reuncomfortable in the first
place, and so they make it yourproblem, not theirs.
Yes, and that, for me, is just.
It's frustrating, because if youknew how to put it into words,
then we can have a conversationabout it, rather than you trying
to scapegoat me about your ownfragility.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
Right Now, that particular place where I worked
in Falls Church.
That did not make me know wewere done.
That made me dial back a bit.
That made me dial back a bit.
What made me know we were doneis when the owner of the
practice blamed me for someonequitting who had not been doing
their job correctly.

(22:13):
So because I corrected a personin their path and the person
then quit the job, it was myfault.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
Were you their manager.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
Say that again.
Were you their manager?
I was the associate doctor andthis was a chiro assistant.
So this is my assistant, who Icorrected, and the boss blamed
me for the person leaving.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
What would have happened if you hadn't corrected
them?

Speaker 1 (22:42):
It was a patient care issue, and so if you had
corrected them, the issue wouldhave progressed, or they would
have been doing things wrong forpatient care.
That would have then not allowedus to be progressing in the
patient's wellness.
So we're trying to get theperson to a certain level.
You're doing things wrong.

(23:02):
I have to tell you that it'swrong so that you don't continue
that.
But also I had to correct hernot only on the thing but also
on her response, because she hada very nasty response in the
presence of patients.
So I had to correct her on that, pulled her aside.

(23:24):
She tells the boss that I kepther from carrying on the
schedule by pulling her aside totell her about the behavior.
Now I believe in addressingthings when things are in the
room.
I'm not going to come back andtry to make you remember the
situation.
I'm going to tell you when Ineed to tell you in that moment.

(23:45):
So we don't carry on.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
I tell people all the time feedback is like leftovers
after about three days, don'tnobody want it.
Like it needs to happen when itneeds, you know immediately so
that you can associate what'sbeing said to you to the
situation to determine whetheror not you agree.
You see the same way.
You have other questions butyou wait for five days and like,
oh, remember that thing?

Speaker 1 (24:07):
no, I don't, because there have been one million
things that have happenedbetween now and then and in that
practice I was seeing no lessthan I would probably say that I
was seeing no less than 35 or40 patients a day, a day, a day
is that a?
normal case load.
I mean I was tremendous.

(24:28):
I mean I don't know, I just Iwas, you know, good at it, but
Tremendous.
I was tremendous because laterI had a practice where I've seen
95 patients in a day.
Wow.
So is it good for my person, mybody?
Probably not.
It's good for the bottom line.
But the two to three minuteconversations I had with her,

(24:50):
behind closed doors, away fromanybody's earshot, she took it
as somewhat intimidating and asif I was threatening somehow,
which is a dark skin problem forthose who can't see them.
Dark skin.
But there's, that's a problemwhen you're correcting people,
that even when you are kind, youcan be much more easily taken

(25:14):
for threatening.
It's, you know, an intentionalRBF, I guess because I am not
that Can we say what RBF meanson our podcast.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
I don't know you can.
I'm going to have some bleep itout.

Speaker 1 (25:29):
Go ahead, oh rest in bitch face.
So I you know, just by beingdark skinned I can be perceived
as coming with a meanness,aggressiveness and direct
behavior is not aggressive.
It's real-time response, soreal-time response is not

(25:51):
aggressive.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
Pregnant pause.
So no, no, no, I was gonna sayfor those of you who have not
done any research or work on theconcept of colorism, especially
in the African-Americancommunity, it's worth doing
because there are a lot ofstereotypes and tropes around
dark-skinned women and how theypresent themselves, whether it
be overbearing orover-sexualized or all of the

(26:16):
over things, especially incontrast to our lighter,
fair-skinned, you know humans.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
And, might I add, this practice was about 85% of
my patients were Spanishspeakers, and so my entire staff
were Spanish speakers.
So we were dealing with theHispanic population.
My boss was actually Italian,but a rather darker-skinned
Italian, and he was fluent inSpanish.
And I thank God for thatposition, though, because I

(26:45):
actually learned so much that Iwas able to do appointments
without my assistants, explainthe x-rays, explain the
treatment plans and, you know,tell them what I needed them to
do in order to do exercise oranything.
So that's why, when I left thatjob with no other job because I
was like no, we're not doingthis, we're not taking blame for
incompetence, we're not goingto be pointed out by my

(27:20):
assistant as having done wrong.
When, after the same assistantand I were supposed to be going
to a weekend event it was goingto be like a continual education
class because this person hadnot gotten a license to be a car
assistant which does exist andas I'm heading toward this event
, she calls me and says she'sgoing to be a little bit late

(27:43):
because she had to change cars.
Her car had broken down, and soI said OK, and I wait a little
bit.
I call her back.
I was trying to see if shewanted me to pick her up and she
didn't answer the phone.
She did not answer the phone.
That was on Saturday and shenever came back to work.
Never came back to work.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
And that, yes, that is the person that I was blamed
for quitting because I hadcorrected her.
She ghosted you at theconference and then didn't come
back.

Speaker 1 (28:13):
And never came back to work.
Very classic, that's not eventhe worst.
She had hired a person, a guy,who she met at the Sears next
door.
This is like seven corners ofWall Street.
She's not there anymore.
So she met him at Sears.
She had hired him to be a carassistant.
She just always wanted to hirepeople who were fluent in
Spanish, even if they didn'thave experience.
We would train them.

(28:33):
And as I'm training the guy,we're in a U-shaped sort of
office and I'm showing him somethings about what he has to do.
And, um, he says to me that heneeds to go.
Go to the bathroom, which istoward the back in this break
room.
Whatever I see him go backthere, he opens the door to the
break room, opens the door thatexits to the hallway of the of

(28:56):
the office complex and leaves inthe shirt that has a
chiropractic office name on itand never came back.
That was his first day.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
You know it's interesting.
I've got to find the statistics.
But you would be surprised howmany people either don't show up
on their first day afterthey've hired, signed the
contract, everything, or theyleave after the first day.
Or they've hired, signed thecontract everything, or they
leave after the first, the firstday or two.
You'd be surprised, um and Iwatched him.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
He kind of looked back at me and smiled when I was
diabolical.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
That's so fascinating , so, all right, I had to get
off the cell.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
But yeah, that conversation I was sitting with
her in that conversation, theboss, and she's telling me how
it's my fault, and I'm justsmiling, I'm like, and so she
finishes talking and I say toher you know, I'm so glad we had
this conversation because itallows me to speak my truth.
And my truth is that my timehere is up and so I'm going to

(30:00):
give you a 30 day notice becausethat is just a kind thing to do
, but our time is up.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
How did you not like?
How did you not turn on thelike?
What did you do to process it?
Where you were like this is awonderful thing, I'm ready.
Where you're not coming at herlike you know what, let me tell
you how this isn't my fault.
You're not trying to plead yourcase, because that's typically.
I was coming at her like youknow what.
Let me tell you how this isn'tmy fault.
You're not trying to plead yourcase.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
Because that's typically I was laughing at her.
Internally I was laughing,that's why I was smiling.
I was laughing at her and theridiculousness of her statements
about my fault in this.
I was laughing and so I just.
It was just so bonkers until Iwas just entertained.
I wasn't angry, I was justentertained at how stupid it was

(30:47):
, you know.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
And yeah, all right, so you, you leave DC and you go
back to Danville, cause mom getsit.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
Oh well, you're skipping though, because that
was 2008.
Okay, I left her and went onVistaprint and printed business
cards as a traveler that said,say, I've learned Spanish and I
spent a year working for myselfin DC, maryland and Virginia

(31:16):
covering for doctors.
Um, I, by then I lived inVienna.
When I moved to DC, I was stillcovering and I just said, god,
I need $3,500 a month to come inand let's go find it.
And I worked for myself and Iworked for agencies and for
myself.

(31:36):
I worked tax free days I wouldcharge them $425 a day plus
mileage, and half days I wouldcharge them $425 a day plus
mileage.
In half days I would chargethem $375, so they would pick up
the full day.
But yeah, so I just chargedthem, I sent them contracts and
I just did my thing.
And I did my thing all the waydown to central mountainous

(31:59):
Virginia, to Baltimore, and Idid that.
And I taught at Nova Annandaleand Nova Alexandria.
I taught biology there and Ijust did it for myself.
And I ended up working for aguy in Friendship Heights.
So I spent a year in FriendshipHeights and that's when mama
got sick while I was atFriendship Heights.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
But I love how a lot of times we get stuck from the
time we decide to like, hey,this is time to pull the ripcord
to the next thing.
Not only did you not try to jumpinto another thing.
You pivoted like, okay, here'swhat we're fitting to do and I
find many times that we getscared to do that thing right

(32:47):
because you knew how to do allof the things.
You knew how to, you know,engage with the doctors, get to
the knee and come in and comeout.
What would you say to someonethat has what I would call your
spirit, your ability to hustleand grind right, and how you
show up to be a plug-in forpeople, because that's a very

(33:09):
unique skill to be able to comein, make an impact and roll out.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
Well, first and foremost, when you're plugging
in for somebody, understand thatwhatever they do is what they
do and do that Period, you cando it with your smile I can't
help with my smile, I can't helpwith my laugh, my jokes,
whatever the way that I am isnot interfering with what I am

(33:39):
doing.
So when I look at the doctor'snotes, when I talk to the
patients, the staff whether itbe a chiro assistant that works
with patients or billing orappointment coordinator I am
asking them questions about howthey do it.
I show up no less than 30minutes earlier than the office
opens.
I used to do an hour but peoplewouldn't be there so I'd be

(34:01):
sitting and waiting.
So I started 30 minutes and Icome in and I get the tour, I
talk to the people and if youcan possibly have a visit before
you're filling in for whatever,so that you can just 15 or 20
minutes watch what happens, youdon't even have to be walking
around with a doctor.
You can sit in the waiting roomor sit in the jump chair just

(34:24):
to watch the interactions, whatthey usually do and if you can
have that visit before thecontract is signed, it's awesome
because they know that you'rereally trying to be there for
them in the way they need you,and I was careful not to overdo
so that the patient wouldn'tfeel like that when I was gone

(34:45):
they missed something.
I was also really good aboutencouraging them to trust their
doctor's word.
So, whatever and whoever you'recovering, when you see the
notes, when the patient sayswhat he says Y Z Well, x, y Z is
a great answer.
I think you should go with that, because they're looking for a

(35:06):
second opinion.
But I'm not a second opinion,I'm filling in.
So I just encourage them tofollow the lead of that doctor
in that office and to trust theprocess.
And I would always throw insome things about you know
healing pathways.
You know why it takes so long,why you might have a contract

(35:27):
for this many sessions or a planthat breaks it down like this
yeah, just encouragement of whatthey're already experiencing
and that also makes the doctorwant to hire you again.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
And I think that's from what I understand.
What I see is your ability todo that when you're with a
client or a student or what haveyou, and you are able to
separate your disagreement withthem in private rather than
airing it out publicly.

Speaker 1 (35:58):
Oh, that's hugely important, yeah, even though
they still may not respect it,but you do right, right, oh, my
god, when we get back to dc girl, I gotta tell you about that.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
Back to dc 2014 do you want to go there now, before
we go to another story?

Speaker 1 (36:17):
sure, did we?
We we're good, well, well, yeah, so when I left in 2010, I got
to say this DC, I left in 2010.
Um, and the doctor who I wasworking for at that time you
know very nice practice andeverything.
He had a way of creating afamily vibe, um, so he would

(36:39):
incorporate himself into yourother parts of your life, you
know show himself supportive inways that he didn't have to,
because he had a real gift forobligating people, but I don't
obligate easily, so that wasvery shocking to him.
As a matter of fact, one time Itold him that I knew the way he

(37:01):
was working when he and hiswife came to a recording of a
gospel album I was on.
So they came out to Marylandand attended this live recording
of his gospel album and he metmy mom and my sister and he was
talking all about the familyatmosphere and this and that.
And I said, or it could be sothat if you do things that seem

(37:24):
like family, it'll make me justwork harder.
And he was like, well, you know, he couldn't.
You know, and that's so funnyand you know, because he had a
way of doing that and theloyalty that he garnered by
doing those things.
I know for sure that he loanedmoney when people's families in
other countries were struggling,that he you know, that he, you

(37:46):
know, gave advances on paycheckswhen somebody's kid had to get
braces, or you know things likethat that you don't have to do,
but you do them so that peoplewill feel more loyal to you.
When my mother got sick, I hadnot planned on ending that
contract, but I had to end itbecause I needed to go back home
.
My sister was here alone and mymom had ovarian cancer, and so

(38:10):
that was actually 2009 that shegot diagnosed with ovarian
cancer.
It was October, and I workedand traveled back and forth
between Danville and DC untilDecember 2010.
Back and forth between Danvilleand DC until December 2010.
And at the time I was stillteaching at the college at Nova
Alexandria on Saturdays,annandale on Saturdays, and I

(38:32):
would leave my teaching job onSaturday and come to Danville,
five hours away almost, and behere day and a half, and on
Sunday evening I would go backand show up to work on Monday
morning, here day and a half andon Sunday evening I would go
back and show up to work onMonday morning, and so I did
that at least twice a month.
And I finally got to the pointwhere I was saying it's too much

(38:55):
, I'm going to have to gobecause my sister needs my help.
So we have a private officeconversation about how I have to
break this contract.
It wasn't my plan.
And what's funny is one time heeven gave me a gift for my
mother because he wanted me tosend it to her because when he
had been sick and unable to movearound a little bit, it helped
him.
And it was one of those grabberthings like get trash.
So this grabber thing.

(39:17):
And so he sent home to mymother this brand new package
grabber thing.
You know he's helping me, youknow because he wants me to be
loyal.
So but anyway, I told him I hadto go.
And I told him in earlyNovember and gave, you know,
more than a month's notice.
So he started the speech to meabout loyalty yes, ma'am, about

(39:43):
loyalty, yes, ma'am.
And he was berating me aboutkeeping my word, about being
someone who could be trusted,dependable, and whether I was a
person who was dependable.
And did I just walk away whensomething was hard?
I mean, he went in honey, cuethe Godfather music Honey.
So when I tell you thatconversation was.

(40:05):
I was like what Now?
What I was doing by leaving wasloyalty in the highest degree.
So I said to him I've heard allthat you have to say and I was
angry.
I was angry.
I was angry and like trembling,and I said to him no matter

(40:30):
what you think of me, my loyaltywill always be to God, my
family and myself, and work doesnot make the list when any of
that is in danger.
I appreciate what you have done.
I appreciate your understanding.
My last day will be and fill inthe blank Um how did how?

Speaker 2 (40:57):
but how was it like after you gave him that?

Speaker 1 (40:59):
you know how was it like after you gave him that you
know that's oh solid treatmentreally he didn't even really
talk to me after that andbecause of the way he felt about
me leaving, then I was gettinggas all around like nobody
wanted to appear to besupportive oh yeah, corporate
leprosy is the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
we talked about it when we talked about um.
When people aren't performanceimprovement plans, how, like?
We think people don't know, butthen everybody knows because
everybody's lowering their.
It's like I call it hospice.
When the organization puts youon contact Right, it's just like
, oh yeah, she's in the roomLike, and you're doing this
death walk day in and day out,intentionally isolating you.

(41:40):
It is, it's awful.

Speaker 1 (41:43):
Yeah, I mean, I had gone to work at that job in snow
so deep that the only reasonwhy I could make it to work was
because I could ride the trainand all the train pathway was
underground and that's the onlyreason why I could go to work.
I bought my favorite cityrolling cart.
I call them Rollo.
We've been through a lottogether.

(42:04):
So Rollo, my rolling cart, Ibought at a container store over
in Friendship Heights because Ineeded to be able to carry
stuff around with me and ridethe train to get back and forth
and work in the snow.
And one time another associatedoctor and I went on a Saturday
morning now, when I say snow,this was that like snowpocalypse
thing they talked about.

(42:24):
Oh yeah, snowmageddon, yeah,snowmageddon, there you go.
We got there.
And this associate doctor thatwas with me, he didn't live so
conveniently so he had offeredto just get a hotel room near
the office.
Offered to just get a hotelroom near the office.

(42:45):
The Grand Poobah, in hiswonderful generosity, offers to
pay half.
You should have paid the wholething Just a little bit.
Nobody should have to get ahotel to show up at work.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
For those of you who don't know what snowmageddon is,
definitely google it, but itwas circa 2009, was it?

Speaker 1 (43:07):
no, it's not 10.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
2019, like 10 listen and within four hours, almost a
foot and a half of snow droppedon the dc maryland area.
I think I went all the way upto Philly.
It was crazy.
People were stuck in their cars, people abandoned their cars on
the GW Parkway.
Do you remember that At thetime it was terrible?
I lived in Bethesda.

(43:30):
No, I worked in.
Bethesda.
I was at the cover headquartersof this company.
I lived in Rockville and livedin Gaithersburg, which is every
bit of six miles.
It took me four hours to gethome in that snow.
Four hours to go, six miles.
It was horrendous.
People died in Snowmageddonbecause the forecast said snow

(43:51):
but there was no way to predicthow fast the snow came.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
So I'm just earmarking the situation,
because it was the idea of likenot helping you stay somewhere
makes no sense, because it tookus days to plow out of that,
yeah, and so because I was ongreen and red lines, I was able
to ride the train, yeah, andthen I'd get out and you know,
walk, you know whatever, acouple blocks to the office, um,
but we, we were there and intwo hours we had one patient
call to see if we were open.
Other people just didn't showup.
We called, you know the grandpoobah or whatever, and he's

(44:28):
like, well, you know, if nobodycame yet, I guess you guys can
go ahead on and leave and likewait another hour and then go
ahead and go.
Thank you so much, sir, so kindand so generous you so much, so
kind, so generous.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
So let's, let's fast forward.
Let's fast forward to the first, the first full-time educator
position after chiropractic,because I remember, I remember
those days you're excited youwere my 2011 um.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
Yeah, so I um.
That was the one where the ladydidn't want to hire me, um, and
I pushed in because I justdon't believe in somebody
telling me I'm not qualifiedwhen I'm overqualified.
And I found myself reallyreaching these kids because
quiet is kept.
I'm super shiny, but I grew upin a bad neighborhood so I

(45:19):
shined it well and I always sayI think people think because I'm
super shiny that I didn't gothrough anything.
But let us not forget that inorder to be polished, you must
be buffed and scratched andscraped.
So my shine comes from a lot ofexperience and the majority of
the children that I was workingwith were in low socioeconomic
situations and I called thembefore Tyler Perry I mean, he

(45:44):
really owes me a check because Icalled them the haves and
have-nots.
That's what I called my kids,and the reason why I called them
the haves and have-nots isbecause there were two reasons
why my children ended up inalternative school.
So their nauseating behavior,ridiculous actions that happened
.
Some of the children were superbored because they're so smart,

(46:06):
so smart, so quick.
Super bored.
They found something else to doand those are the haves.
And then my have-nots havedeficits that they cover with
bad behavior.
So, in order to keep fromappearing stupid, they don't
want you to think they're dumbor they can't do it.
They just would rather becalled bad.

(46:28):
They're just bad, which is justnot true.
Sometimes those kids are reallyfrustrated, and other times
they just are divertingattention so that nobody knows
how they struggle.
So I had a seventh grade class.
This was a block schedulediverting attention so that
nobody knows how they struggle.

(46:48):
So I had a seventh grade class.
This was a block schedule.
So we're talking a 85 minute orso class 85 to 90 minute class,
and so I had seventh graders inthe morning, a planning period
and then two biology classes inthe afternoon.
My seventh grade class in analternative school was 23 kids,
so I got 23 kids that got putout from somewhere else.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
That's a lot of kids in general, let alone a lot of
kids who have challenges.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
That doesn't even seem to be true, exactly, and I
remember so many of them andI've run into them around town
that they have survived, theyhave moved forward.
Between that and my other highschool experience, I have taught
three murderers, so I have hadthree murderers that have been

(47:30):
on the news for murder, chaseddown in, you know, manhunt bolo.
So I worked with people, kids,who were actually violent.
For whatever reasons, there'salways a why.
So I never judged the behavior.
I wanted to know why.
I had a very smart child.

(47:50):
I'm going to call him Antoine.
Yeah, let's call him AntoineBecause that's not his name.
So he was so smart.
But he had a very difficulttime dealing with transitioning
changes, anything that was notsteady, if you did not keep your

(48:11):
word.
And it did not show up assadness, it showed up as anger,
anger that also showed up in hisphysical body, like lockdown.
You know that kind of thing.
I had girls in seventh grade,turning 14 years old, that asked
me if they could go to thebathroom because they forgot to

(48:33):
take their pill.

Speaker 2 (48:35):
But don't worry, it ain't no crazy pill or nothing,
it's just birth control.

Speaker 1 (48:41):
In the seventh grade, in the seventh grade, in the
seventh grade, in seventh grade,yeah, and you know I had.
I actually had a set of twinsin that class, fraternal girl
twins, and I ran into one at KFCvery recently.
Funny enough, we called themboth Keisha, and they don't mind

(49:03):
me saying that because I lovethem to death.
We had I love Keisha and tellKeisha, but we called them both
Keisha and somehow they knew whowe were talking to.
It's so funny because I thinkI'm like Keisha but they answer
when you call them.
So my first 7th grade class Ihad a little boy in there that

(49:25):
was enamored because my housesmelled good.
He said he said your housesmells good, he said my house
Like oh, it must be my body Bathand Body Works or something
he's like no, I can tell it'syour house, he's like your house
really smells good.
It must be so nice and tell it'syour house.
He's like your house reallysmells good.

(49:46):
It must be so nice and I'm just, you know, pulling ones that
are that first seventh gradeclass.
One of my murderers was in thatclass and he was one of the
best kids.
I just loved him.
He was so agreeable with me.
Anyway, he's the one who taughtme that tax season is better
than Christmas.

(50:06):
Love him and he inspired mewith that, because it actually
helped me to teach my highschoolers graphing based upon
tax season.

Speaker 2 (50:26):
So I taught them about an increasing trend in tax
refunds based upon how manychildren that you would claim.
Hey, that's the way to do it.
So let me ask this question.
I've been talking to peopleabout the trifecta of challenges
that educators have in doingyour job, the trifecta of what I
call the trifecta of bad bosses.
It's the administration on astate scale, right, a federal,

(50:50):
whatever.
Then you've got the localadministration in your school,
then you have the parents, andit could be a quadruple if you
add the kids.
Sometimes I have not yet gottenanyone who's like yeah, it's
the kids, it's the kids.
Most of the challenges I'veheard have been about the
administration and the parents.
Would you?

Speaker 1 (51:11):
Yeah, we can talk about that, because sometimes it
is the kids.
But the reason it's the kids isusually the parents Say more
yes.
So there are parents that havegrown tired of correcting.
They have given up on havingthe discussions to push the

(51:33):
children into submission, if youwill, to do the things that
they need to do when they needto do them, doing what we have
to do now so we can do what wewant to do later.
They don't teach them that.
Shout out to great debaters,but we yeah, we cannot see a
child without seeing the parents.

(51:53):
There are exceptions to that.
We have parents that areactually grandparents.
We have parents that areadoptive or parents that are
doing fostering.
We have parents that aresiblings, cousins and aunties.
The nuclear family is acomplete farce in our world

(52:13):
today.
It does not usually exist.
Has it never existed?

Speaker 2 (52:19):
in your perspective.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
It has existed, but still not in the, not at the
level that people tried to makeit seem.
You know, the Dick and Jane andmom and dad era was still a lie
.
My mother grew up with both herparents, but my mother's mother
was her dad's third wife.
She had siblings that wereolder than her mother.

(52:46):
She lived in a nuclearhousehold, but my grandmother,
my mother-in-law.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
My grandmother was the last of 11, I believe 12.
Yeah, her mom died when she waslittle, so the sisters took
turns raising her.
My mother-in-law, her mom diedwhen she was little, so she had
to live with a bunch ofdifferent people.
Like it's just, it's.
It's an interesting thing thatwe probably don't discuss enough
how many people don't have theproverbial classic form of a

(53:20):
household Right?

Speaker 1 (53:22):
I had a seventh grader that he lived with his
mother.
He knew his father for surebecause the father, quiet as
kept and in my observationalopinion, was this boy's father
but also his drug boss, becauseI think he ran drugs for the
father.
The mother had no parentingskills with him whatsoever.

(53:44):
He was 12.
He was a true seventh graderwho was actually very smart and
did most of the parenting forhimself.
And when I realized that I hadmet with the mother, I talked to
her on the phone.
I met with her in person andall she could do was say, well,
I don't know what to do.
And then in person she's justcrying.

(54:05):
She doesn't know what to do.
She has this mousy little voiceand, um, you know, she could
barely look me in the eye.
I said, oh, this kid.
I got no parents so I need todeal with him as an adult.
So that's a great example ofthe kid being the problem.
But the kid was also thesolution, because the parents
were not the solution, they werethe bigger problem.

(54:28):
So that particular child wouldmiss days and days of school.
He was one of my Tuesdays, likehe didn't do Mondays because
the weekend had been so turnt asa 12-year-old, so he did not
come to school on Monday, andusually also not Friday, because
Friday is when business getsgoing really well.

(54:51):
So I had him three days out ofthe week, but because he was so
smart, I could always catch himup and he would always pass
quizzes and tests because all Ihad to do was talk to him a
little bit, give him somethingto stare at for five minutes,
and he would remember we had aspecial program that I did with
the seventh graders where wecreated a school wide recycling

(55:12):
program.
And the way I teach science isthat science is everything and
everything is science.
So in this particular programthis was a community project, so
it was environmental science.
Seventh grade science is lifescience, so we dealt with
environmental.
We also created a slideshowthat was for us to present it to

(55:35):
the administration and tochosen teachers so that we could
get help and get permission forstudents to be able to go
around and collect the recycling, and this was something that
then, once they collect, I hadto drive it to the place,
because Danville is not arecycling city.
So we had done this plan and hewas there on a given day when
we practiced.

(55:56):
Who would say what?
So every child had a line inour presentation and they had
been given their lines and theypracticed them because they
really wanted to be able to saythem without reading them.
That was a classroom decision.
They don't want to read them,but I convinced them to allow me
to still take them on the desk,just in case if they needed to
look at them.

(56:16):
And we created hand signs itwas really just sign language so
they were all numbered and theyknew when it was their turn.
So the day of the presentationhe comes back after being gone
for two days and he would havehad a part, but I was going to
take it because he hadn't beenthere.
He was number 12, I stillremember.
And he said no, I can do it.

(56:39):
And I was like well, I mean,you can just read.
He's like no, he's like arethey reading theirs?
I was like no, nobody else isgoing to read it.
He's like well, I'm not goingto read mine either, I'll be
ready.
So I mean, this is like maybe10 minutes before we start this
thing.
And so we turned down thelights.
I do a little introduction andso I'm doing them like one, two

(57:01):
and I didn't have to say nothingthe whole time, and so this you
know.
Next, you know, and the kidsstand up and they do their thing
.
And these are kids that nobodythinks can do things.
We get to 12 and my boy standsup, says his part straight out,
like a good old Easter speech,sits down, cocked their head,
like now, like I told you that Ididn't have to.

(57:23):
You know, he was so proud ofhimself.
So he was a super smart childand kids are all gifted in some
way.
I like to remind people of themultiple intelligences.
You can get a child to learnjust about anything if you teach
them in their primaryintelligence, and so that kid

(57:44):
was motivated by being the best.
Usually he wanted to be the top, he wanted to look the best, he
wanted to be the best.
He had a whole slew of tattoos.
Girl, this is a 12-year-old.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
Who was good?
Don't worry about it, I'm goingto ask the question.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
I love him so much.
I'm really working hard not tocall his name, because I know my
kids.
No, no, no, I love that.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
So I still want to know who gave the baby tattoos,
but that's the conversation foranother day.
Tell me about.
Tell me about the kinds ofthings that you had to deal with

(58:37):
when it comes to leaders notunderstanding your superpower of
dis have seen you come up withthe most creative ways to solve
problems because you are willingto kind of, you know, leap over
a tall building Right, and Ialso know that that's caused you
some trouble with the peoplethat you work with Right, with
the people that you work withright when they're like, well,

(58:57):
we don't do it that way.
We're like, yeah, but it'sgetting done.
Your way wasn't getting done.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
Like, talk to me about talk to me, especially on
the alternative level, so in thealternative school, remembering
that one of my mentors was anadministrator, so she was super
supportive but in a way that shewas impressed by the
differences.
I remember one of the firsttimes she was impressed by the
differences.
I remember one of the firsttimes she was impressed was

(59:22):
because we had like crazy outfitday or something.
It was a spirit week and so mycrazy outfit had like multiple,
multiple prints, like I had allthese animal prints and I had
like flowers in my hair, likefur earrings and like this whole
thing.
I have a picture of it where Imade the outfit into a lesson

(59:42):
about organisms.
So the day was for spirit, youknow crazy outfit day or
something.
But I created and she walkedpast as I was standing in the
hallway and you know the kidswould come in and their opening

(01:00:07):
activity was to name as manyliving organisms that my outfit
represented as they couldpossibly find for me.
And so, as I was standing inthe hallway, I always would read
out what was on the board,because I did have students who
were not great readers and theywould, you know, kind of stall
out waiting until we go over itto do it because they weren't
sure what it said fully.
And so I would keep saying whatit was as I'm passing out
pieces of paper or whatever, andshe walks by, she goes, she

(01:00:27):
done made a lesson off the crazyclothes.
You know, she didn't say it tome, but she was just like I
don't think she knows she saidit out loud.
You know she was excitedbecause I created a lesson that
went with what we were supposedto be doing and still had the
spirit.
And then another time we had ameeting with a kid and his

(01:00:48):
parents.
The kid was angry because Imade them put their names on
their work first and last,teaching them that scientists
always have to take credit fortheir work and we have to give a
full name, because I can havemany Taquans, which I actually
had three in one year.
I can have many, but thatwasn't who I had to meet with.
And then that you know I won'tknow who that is, and so we need

(01:01:11):
to have a first and last name.
And so what I would do is Iwould not fully grade the work
in the grade book, on the actualcomputer grade book, until they
had their name on it and thedate, and so I would put a
number in there, which wasactually a number one, and the
number one meant you were here,but it's not ready.
A number two told me you wereabsent and so I need to make

(01:01:34):
sure you get it done.
Well, he was so angry with me,that boy, that he had his mama
come down there.
So we had this whole meetingand all I needed to make sure
you get it done.
Well, he was so angry with me,that boy, that he had his mama
come down there.
So we had this whole meetingand all I needed him to do was
put his name on the work so Icould change the grades.
He was so angry girl, until sheactually took him out of the
class because he could not findhimself to let go of the need to

(01:01:55):
be right and make me wrong, anda lot of the work had no name
on it.
It was no name.
I just knew it was his becauseit's handwriting, so I knew it
was his.
But it didn't have any name onit.
So he was so mad she's likeyou'll just have to take this
class next year because you'renot ready.
So she put him in somethingelse.
So that was a supportive avenue, but I didn't want to go.
I just want you to put yourname on the paper.
I got to hurry up because Isaid this meeting ran long and I

(01:02:16):
thought, and I got to go puttogether the thing they're about
to do.
And she goes oh, you guys aredoing manipulatives.
I was like is that what it'scalled?
And she's like my God, you'redoing so great and you don't
have all this.
You know the vernacular.
I didn't have the words thenbecause I am a teacher and I
know what it takes and I wouldfollow my instincts or do the
things that I know I would havewanted to do Keeping them busy,

(01:02:38):
creating things that they couldshow were their creation but
also could be used to understandconcepts.
And at that particular time wewere doing transcription and
translation.
It was DNA, so we're in thegenome and that's, you know,
seventh grade is do genetics.
So we were doing genetics inboth classes and she says, oh,

(01:02:58):
that's what it's called.
I said, oh, yeah, yeah, okay,okay, manipulatives.
So I would be learning to teacha vernacular along the way.
So she was super supportive,but I did have a person who
blocked me on something in thattime.
I wanted to have parents comeand volunteer in my classroom

(01:03:19):
because I wanted to have moreadult eyes.
Now, remember, I said I'vetaught murderers and when I have
teachers tell me that theycan't do something because the
kids won't do something, I saidyou know I've given scalpels to
murderers, so there's probablynothing that you can give me.
That's a reason to not havechildren busy.
So I'm sorry that.

(01:03:40):
You know I'm like you know,just take that and understand my
background.
Understand that you know myfoundation has given scalpels to
murderers, so I don't know whyyou can't give markers and paper
to to kids.
So, uh, because I dissected andeverything, in those class and
alternative school.
We dissected and everything inthose classes.
In alternative school wedissected fetal pigs, we

(01:04:02):
dissected frogs, and so, yeah, Ihave very sharp objects.
So I wanted to have some parentvolunteers.
They didn't have to be expertsin science or anything, they
just had to be in the room tomake sure nobody got impaled
with protection pins or thingslike that, and so I thought it
was going to be so great becauseI had some parents who were

(01:04:22):
really awesome parents Back inthe day when you and I were kids
.
If somebody got in your face,and especially they put their
hands on you, you could beatthem up back and you wouldn't
get in trouble because theystarted it that part.
But by the 2000s everybody getssuspended for 10 days for
fighting and recommended forlong-term suspension.

(01:04:42):
Based upon their records andbackground.
They may be put on a 365-daysuspension and go to alternative
school based on defendingthemselves.

Speaker 2 (01:04:52):
Who's that in return for, if kids don't want to be in
school in the first place?
That's a rhetorical question,it's not.

Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
That's where some of my methods were different,
because I didn't write kids up.
I told them, if we can't dealwith these four walls, then you
know, the only way you'regetting out of here is if you
just blast out and you just walkout, and then I'll have to
write you up for walking outbecause I didn't tell you to
leave.
So yeah, but the principaldidn't want to allow me to do
that because he claimed that youknow it was dangerous for the

(01:05:25):
children, blah, blah, blah.
But the real issue was he hadbeen threatened by so many
parents with his very dry way ofdisciplining children, very dry
way of addressing issues thatarose, and even before it was
alternative school.
I have heard stories like thatwhere he wasn't in any way able

(01:05:45):
to be, I guess, empathetic forwhatever was happening with the
kids.
And so parents have, like I'llcome across this damn desk.
They have done that to him manytimes.
He's had to have, you know,resource officers to escort
parents off campus, ban themfrom school campuses, based on
their responses to his way ofbeing.

(01:06:09):
And so it's not that we had noparents that were absolutely
crazy.
But I was offended that youwould put everybody in that
bucket and not allow me to havepeople who were more than
willing to come.
And I had, like, boy dads whowanted to come and I'm like this
is a boy dad who wants to comeand be in class with his son and

(01:06:29):
see his son learn, and his sonis going to impress his dad with
what he does.
This is way more than biologyman, this is life, this is
family connection, this isshowing parents that their
children are more than whatthey've done in the past.
And he blocked me.
So what was sweet about thatrelationship is that by the end

(01:06:55):
of the school year our biologykids have to take a standards of
learning test.
In North Carolina they do ELG.
This is the ELC end of coursetest, and I had a class that was
100%.
Everybody passed the biologySOL.
Some of the kids in that classhad never passed SOL in their
entire life and they passed thatone.

(01:07:17):
And that first year I had an an86 pass rate for my biology
students and so he had to cometo me and say that that was
impressive.
But because he didn't have theskills for the real people were
serving, he wasn't going to tellthe kids.
So I had to ask him to pleasecome, wasn't going to tell the

(01:07:42):
kids.
So I had to ask him to pleasecome and tell the kids how proud
he was of them.
I said maybe we can dosomething for them.
You know, especially this class, because the whole class passed
this and that class had some ofmy most colorful stories of how
they got there.
And so I really did that to himin the hallway and ushered him
into the room to prompt him tosay he's proud.

(01:08:04):
So the biology kids both let theguy have a pizza party.
He paid for this pizza partyfor them and I think that was
the first time in his tenurethere that he had actually done
something, a reward from him tothe students and not some
program that didn't work.
We had this thing where kidscould earn these dollars but

(01:08:24):
some of my kids were like theywere intimidating teachers into
giving them the dollars, youknow, so they could go to the
little store and buy the snickerbar or whatever.
So that stuff did not work.
The PBIS, the positive behaviorintervention systems, or
whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:08:39):
So let's fast forward from there to you, leave the
classroom and go intoadministration, which I know was
important to you, especiallybecause you had went got your
third degree.
Third degree Is it the third orthe fourth one?
The degree from Liberty?
I was like.

Speaker 1 (01:08:58):
I don't know.
Oh, the Liberty.
Now, the Liberty degree Iactually started while I was in
the alternative school, becausewhen you come in as a lateral
entry person here in Virginia,you have to have 15 credits of
education courses, but 30 is amaster's.
I was like, why would I get 15floating credits when I can do
30 and have a master's degree?
So that was that.
So I did get a master's degree.
So that was that.
Um, so I did get a massiveeducation while I was working

(01:09:19):
alternative school.
Um, when I was finishing, Ifinished it up and then I went
to graduation.
By the time graduation came, Iwas already gone to dc again in
2014.
Um, but the administration wasan addendum.
So I went to a program withlongwood University and did a
certificate program with them.
That was Saturday, all day,saturday school for many, many

(01:09:43):
weekends over a year, and thenalso 320 hours of volunteer
administrative work, and thatwork was done in 2017, 18.
So the administrative and thereal reason why I went back to
add the administrative licensurewas because I had been, by then

(01:10:06):
, going back to DC, come back toDanville and worked actually
both in North Carolina and thenalso back to my alma mater, and
so after about a year there atmy alma mater, I was made a
co-chair of the sciencedepartment and I had some new

(01:10:26):
folks come in, you know, youngteachers fresh out of school, or
they had been out of school acouple of years and were doing a
lateral entry, and I was doinga lot of mentoring and creating
classroom environments for them,with them, like I had done, um.
And so I started to see, afterhaving created such a great

(01:10:47):
department there andrelationships among teachers,
even the ones who were my hatersI had I had haters too, um,
there in that group, but theycouldn't deny the success of
what we were doing, because Itend to lean into the people
aspect of the grown folks too soI wanted to be able to create

(01:11:08):
that atmosphere for manyteachers.
So I thought, if I could dothis for one department, which
is about 12 teachers, what if Ican do this for a whole school,
which is 120 teachers?
You know, and so that's why Iwent to get the administrative
license, not because I didn'tlike the classroom, and that's
something that people do all thetime.
They get tired of the classroomand think that if they get into
administration they're going tofeel relief because they're not

(01:11:29):
in the classroom.
And in my opinion, that is theworst possible decision you can
make, because what you become isan energy field of negativity

(01:11:49):
about classrooms, when you'resupposed to be trying to help
teachers create goodness inclassrooms.
So you know how do you do that.
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:11:55):
Where do you do that at?
So I left something because Ihated it, and now I'm trying to
make you do good at it, becauseit burns you out.
So what lessons have youlearned about?

Speaker 1 (01:12:07):
both the system and yourself being in administration
.
Some people look at theclassroom and admin as if they
are in concert with one anothercontinuously, and they are just
not.
There are so many things thathave to be handled
administratively that reallyhave nothing to do with the
classroom at all, that havenothing to do with the

(01:12:30):
individual children at all, suchthat it is a very difficult
thing to manage to balance that.
And so, even talking about thatalternative school principal, I
can understand how he couldlose sight of the service.
Education as an entirety is in aservice profession, and for

(01:12:52):
those of us who forget that, itreally breeds a well-fertilized
plot for growing disdain.
Yeah, for being angry at whatyou have to do, for being mad at
how things turn out, becauseyou're going because it serves
you, or so you think, becauseyou get paid to do it, because

(01:13:15):
you have prestige to do it, butyou're really there as a servant
, and so when people forget that, it makes it very difficult to
keep the connection to the kids.
And so for me, in conversations, some of us, we say, well, we
went to the dark side, we do ABM, so over to the dark side.

(01:13:38):
I was finished with my programin August of 2018.
Actually, I finished it on mybirthday, august 4th, and what's
funny is, in the midst offinishing that program, I also
was preparing to be married tomy dream guy, traded in that
starter husband for my dream guyand we were deciding when we
would get married.

(01:13:59):
What's funny is that it was theday before my birthday.
We decided that our wedding daywould be August 25th of the
same year Very fun wedding.

Speaker 2 (01:14:10):
I was very pregnant.

Speaker 1 (01:14:13):
My husband put you in a big chair.
He's like she can't sit in thatlittle chair.
She and Khalil came to mywedding and later on Khalil goes
.
I could have played for you.
He was so hot, but I mean, thatwas not something that was
important.
My whole wedding was $1,500$1,500.

Speaker 2 (01:14:36):
She not only lended her ingenuity to her profession,
but it also showed upended heringenuity to her profession.
But it also showed up in herwedding.
It was beautiful, the food wasamazing.
He still talks about that food.
My husband still talks aboutthe food from your wedding.
It was good, it was good girland he's always anyone who
listens to this and knows himknows that he's always grading
the wedding by the quality ofthe sermon in the wedding and

(01:14:58):
the quality of the music.
Like, and I'm like, but it'snot your wedding.
Like, yeah, I did that for them, it gets bad.

Speaker 1 (01:15:03):
I know that's right.
Well, you know, you never tell.
What do you think about myuncle, keith solo?
I don't remember.
I have to ask him.
I have to ask because that wasnot my idea.
It was my sister's idea to havehim sing that solo.
Oh, lord, and I have to thinkof what it was.

Speaker 2 (01:15:15):
William we to cut this out so she don't tell the
whole world that she didn't likeher Uncle William song.

Speaker 1 (01:15:20):
No, no, no, I did not like it.
It wasn't my idea.
I just can't remember the songtitle right now.
That's because there'smenopause.
You can leave it in Listen.

Speaker 2 (01:15:31):
Go back.
Going back to you were about toget married.
I finished the program.

Speaker 1 (01:15:37):
The point is, I finished the program in 2018.
And when I go back to my school, then I'm applying for jobs
within my same district.
I'm being overlooked, beingoverlooked, overlooked and this
is a great point to you know tobring up for this particular
podcast, because that's thenyour district administration,

(01:15:58):
which is completely a differentadministration now today,
completely different.
But I was being pigeonholed,basically kept in place because
I was doing so well, right?
So people should remember thatsystems are not designed to
support and grow individuals.
Systems are designed toaccomplish goals that the system

(01:16:23):
sets out to accomplish.
And the system is not going toportray itself Right, and those
goals are not created by thesystem itself.
In this case, for schools,those goals are created by the
state government and created bythe federal government, which
are so far removed from theactual systems, realizing that
in Virginia, your school systemsare based upon your

(01:16:46):
municipality, and so every cityis going to be different.
The county is different.
My district sits in the middleof a county.
We're surrounded by a county onthree sides, but the county has
its own school district and wehave our own.
So the goals that we are tryingto accomplish are not going to
support individuals and theirgoals and their ideas, even

(01:17:09):
though my goal was selfless.
My goal was to help them createwhat I had done at a larger
scale, but I was being kept inplace.
The cog had to keep cogging, sothat's the reason why I had to
leave this district to get myadmin experience, and I didn't

(01:17:29):
even look for it in the way itcame.
I just, like about every personin our age range, probably has
an account with Indeed or youknow these job apps.
Yeah, but I didn't really payattention to it and usually I
would get really silly jobs likedo you want to be an equine
specialist in Missouri?
No, I do not.
Would you like to you know?

(01:17:51):
Would you like to you know?
Do disease testing on a termfarm in Colorado, on a turn farm
in Colorado?
Oh no, you know, that's not forme.
And one day one popped up andit was for the director of an
academic learning center atHargrave Military Academy.
It's a private military schoolfor grades 7 through 12 and

(01:18:14):
postgraduate basketball players.
There used to be a postgraduatefootball team and for some
years, in the 80s, there wasalso a division of female
students as well.
And it popped up and I startedto look and I'm checking, you
know, I even printed it out tosee.
I'm like that's me, that's me,that's me.
And so, based upon myexperience with the haves and
have nots, it really did lend tomy skills in general, because I

(01:18:37):
can go into a room with agradient of learners and make it
work.
As a matter of fact, thealternative guy he had to
compliment me one day on thisobservation because it was a day
where kids were showing up late, probably a Monday, and we were
doing a lab and every time akid showed into the room I got
them started on something to doand he was like it's like second

(01:19:02):
year.
He's like how did you do that?
That nobody got left out, thateverybody jumped in where they
fit in, everybody had a job,everybody knew what was supposed
to be happening and even a kidshowed up to that class probably
14 minutes before the block wasover Wow.
And he was incorporated in thecleanup group and I even called

(01:19:23):
it that and made him the leader.
So this job with this academiclearning center was wrought with
have and have nots, because itwas both ends of the bell curve.
So that job had me in charge ofstudents who were so advanced
they needed college courses.
So I handled all the onlinecharge of students who were so
advanced they needed collegecourses.
So I handled all the onlinecollege courses.
And then everybody who neededextra tutoring and this is grade

(01:19:45):
seven through 13, really, youknow, because there were some
who had already graduated andstill need assistance.
And so I went to interview forthe job after having done a
virtual, because this is 2020.
So we're dead in the middle ofpandemic.
I had had major surgery, had atotal hysterectomy in March of

(01:20:06):
2020 during the pandemic, andthis is July when I go to this
interview and I get the job andI had to tell the school that
I'm leaving.
But the reason why I had to gois because to me, a credential
goes stale.
So if anybody is listening, whohas a credential in anything?
If you've earned a CPA, ifyou've learned a certificate to

(01:20:28):
assist the horse trainer, ifyou've learned a certificate to
set up the lunch service at arestaurant my aunt had to do a
whole certificate to set upbreakfast at Best Western and it
was online class you had toknow what to put the yogurt on
ice, how long to stay out allthese things.
If you've earned anything, don'tlet it go stale, waiting for

(01:20:49):
your current situation to change, waiting for somebody to
recognize you.
Sometimes people have to missyou to appreciate you.
I know that's right.
So I had to walk away so that Iwould not have wasted 320 hours
of volunteer service, probably24 credits of coursework, you

(01:21:11):
know various papers and projects.
Let it sit on the shelf waitingfor it to go stale, because
after time, if I had tried toleave this district after many
years, I'm sure an interviewerquestion whether it be out loud
or in the back of their mindwould be well, why didn't they
give you a job?
There must be something wrongwith you, right?
If your own people didn't giveyou this job, so why should I

(01:21:32):
hire you if your people who haveworked with you did not hire
you?

Speaker 2 (01:21:36):
Hey, fam, it's me again.
Listen, this is the end of partone.
Our conversation went so wellthat we had to break it up into
two parts, so I want you to goahead and join me over in part
two, where Dr Cadogan and I aregoing to be talking about
everything from bias andbetrayal, how to listen to your
body and why you should belistening to your body and the

(01:21:56):
things that it's telling you,and she'll talk to us about how
to show up in purpose, even whenyou're hurt.
So join me in the next episodeand remember, don't let your
boss set the life out of you.
Today's episode is brought toyou by Natalie Parker
Enterprises, where we shape thefuture and unlock potential by
helping organizations and peoplework together to do good work.

(01:22:19):
Find out more atthenatalieparkercom or, if you'd
like to be a sponsor, email usat info at thenatalieparkercom.