October 9, 2025 • 67 mins
What happens when the systems meant to protect educators fail them? In this powerful conversation, Teacher of the Year and 20-year veteran educator Ann Anderson takes us behind the classroom door to reveal the often unseen battles teachers face when leadership falls short.
Growing up in Danville, Virginia's close-knit White Rock community, Ann absorbed profound lessons about education's transformative power from family members who emphasized knowledge, articulation, and community responsibility. These early influences shaped her teaching philosophy when she transitioned from journalism to education two decades ago. Though initially challenging, Ann developed a reputation for consistency, high expectations, and genuine care that recently earned her Teacher of the Year recognition.
But Ann's career hasn't been without significant struggles. She candidly shares experiences with poor leadership, including a principal who publicly berated her teaching methods in front of students and an administration that questioned her judgment when, as a mandated reporter, she flagged inappropriate behavior between a staff member and female students. Most disturbingly, Ann reveals how an assault by a colleague triggered past trauma, and how school leadership initially failed to provide adequate support or accountability.
Throughout these challenges, Ann demonstrates remarkable resilience by knowing her rights, documenting everything, and utilizing resources like union representation. Her hard-won wisdom serves as a roadmap for other educators facing similar situations: "Don't wait for your employer to tell you what your rights are," she advises. "Make sure you understand what they are yourself."
Despite these difficulties, Ann's commitment to her students never wavered. She describes her classroom philosophy with profound simplicity: "When they are my children in the classroom, they're my children forever." This relationship-centered approach has created generations of students who still stop to hug their former teacher years later.
Have you experienced inadequate support in your workplace? Share your story or advice for others navigating similar challenges. Remember: knowing your rights might be the difference between being victimized and empowered when systems fail.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
As long as I've been in education really as long as
I've been a grown person I'vebeen told watch how you handle
other people's children.
Nine months later, the youngman lost his job when his wife
found out that he was trying totalk to a child's mother at the
(00:21):
school.
I know you're lying.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Welcome to.
So your Boss Sucks Now what.
I'm your host, natalie Parker.
Generally speaking, Iabsolutely frown upon most forms
of nepotism at work, but sinceit's my podcast and the person
I'm going to bring on is prettydope, we'll allow it.
My next guest is a family member.
(00:47):
She's actually my cousin, butshe's recently been awarded the
teacher of the year, and she hasveteran teaching status of over
20 years in her hometown ofDanville, virginia.
In this episode, we're going totalk about everything from her
chaotic first days as aneducator and why education for
her is so important in both herown upbringing and that of her
children.
We're going to talk about howshe echoes my sentiment of
(01:10):
document everything and how shesuffered public humiliation in
her classroom from a leader andhow she managed that.
We're also going to talk aboutsome real deep challenges she
had, with not only burnout, butalso a personal issue she had,
(01:31):
and how her leaders failed tosupport her, and what she did to
find herself and advocate forherself.
This episode is extremely deepand it also deals with some very
sensitive issues, and so Ichallenge you to listen with
care, give yourself grace andtake a minute and listen to my
conversation with my cousin AnneAnderson.
(01:53):
Hi, anne, it's good to have youon.
Sew your Boss Sex.
Now what?
How are you?
Fantastic, thank you so muchfor having me.
(02:18):
Listen, I'm excited to have youhave such a great longevity of
recognized experience, ofawarded experience.
But because you're my familyand so I'm going to put that out
(02:39):
there right now, this is my fam, so if y'all don't like this
episode, that's on y'all becausewe're going to have fun.
So listen, I want to talk about.
You hail from my mother'shometown, danville, virginia, as
my grandmother would call it,the Big D.
The Big D.
Tell me about when you knewthat teaching was the thing that
you were made to do.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Well, coming from the Big D and coming from the White
Rock community, we've had awealth of love.
You know, we were born in NewYork and my mother passed, and
we were very young.
This community rescued us theMcLaughlin family, White Rock
Hill.
They were so kind to us, theyjust brought us in with open
(03:22):
arms and this community has beenour home for well over 50 years
.
We have not wanted to leavehere because it has been the
root of everything for us.
I mean, it's just been our home.
So, with that being said, when Istarted having children, of
course I wanted to make surethat my children were rooted in
(03:43):
this community and of course Iwant to make sure that my
children got the same love thatwe had gotten.
And then I said, well, wait aminute, the love that this
community gave me I need to giveto other kids as well.
And so, with that being said,teaching was only natural, and I
(04:03):
believe that it's not just theeducational aspect of it but the
structure.
The kids need structure.
They need to know that they areloved, they need to know that
you know what's out there toprepare for the future, I mean
there needs to be a lot moregrounding, because today they
don't have the, as Aunt Jennywould say, the raising that we
(04:24):
had back in the day.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
It takes a village to raise a child, and that's what
we need to remember that so theAunt Jenny that you mentioned is
my grandmother, jennyMcLaughlin, who passed a few
years ago, and I miss her dearlyand she's one of the reasons
why I think I made my entreeinto corporate America, because
she used to call me MissExecutive Lady.
Every time she was like whereare you going, miss Executive
(04:47):
Lady?
And my grandmother was a partof the community that you talked
about.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
And.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I think the other thing that strikes me, as you're
you know, as I'm talking to you, is that I would say that our
family is full of what my UncleWesley, I remember he said this
one time in a sermon.
I thought it was like what ishe?
He's making up words.
Our family is full ofacademicians, right?
People who are deeplyenthralled and in love and
pursuing academia and all thingsacademic, and it makes sense to
(05:19):
me that you found space inthere.
It makes sense from you know mygrandfather, uncle Wayman, your
grandmother.
You know my grandfather, uncleWayman, your grandmother, like
they all, had such a deepunderstanding of the value of
capturing, retaining andrelaying knowledge in a way that
made it compelling.
It made it you wanted people tohear you know, to listen to
(05:40):
them and to tell the stories inthe way that they did Talk to me
about how growing up aroundthat knowledge bank, if you will
, kind of shaped you as aneducator.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
I remember Grandma Odessa, odessa P Watkins, and
she was, I want to say, a bishopin her right, because she went
from church to church to churchand she gave speeches all over
town.
And she would.
She was constantly writingspeeches, she was constantly
(06:14):
practicing speeches, constantlymaking us give welcome speeches
and the announcements and, oh mygoodness, you know, we had to
perform in every program.
It was just amazing and at onetime I remember man, why do we
have to always do this?
But it got to the point whereit was enthralled in us.
(06:36):
Well, we knew that was going to.
It was expected of us.
It was expected of us toperform.
It was expected of us to learn.
It was expected of us to learn.
It was expected of us to speakin church, in public, to read,
to make sure we enunciated.
I remember being young and yourgrandfather, uncle Ernest
(07:00):
McLaughlin.
He would make sure we haddictionaries at the house.
I couldn't go anywhere onSaturday mornings or really
early Saturday afternoon,because he'd be working on his
sermon and he would call me atany time to ask me how to spell
a word.
And I remember one time I madethe mistake of asking him why he
(07:23):
needed me to spell a word forhim because he was reading the
sermon.
No one was going to be readingthe sermon.
They would not know if the wordwas spelled incorrectly.
He laid me out, so I wouldnever ask him that again.
So I made sure I was alwaysavailable for Uncle Ernest.
I also remember Uncle Waymancoming down and we were always
(07:47):
having birthday celebrationseach month.
So, if you know, we might havefive people that had a birthday
in the month of July, and so wehad a big birthday celebration
and I loved it when Uncle Waymancame down, because I wanted him
to see something that I hadwritten in school, because he
(08:08):
would make over it.
So, oh, my goodness, he wouldsay I was the smartest thing and
he would, you know, read it.
And he would you know oh, if Iwas your teacher, I'd give you
an A for this, and this is whatI like the best.
And he would just.
He made me feel like I was thestar student I liked the best
and he would just, he made mefeel like I was the star student
(08:29):
.
He did, and I loved it.
So it was that type of support,that type of love.
You know, they all fit ourself-esteem, they fit our need
to, our need to learn, our needto be somebody, our need to know
what our niche was in life.
They fit our need to know ourcommunity, our need to know what
our niche was in life.
They said our need to know ourcommunity, our need to know our
heritage, our need to know youknow where we are past so we can
(08:53):
know what our future is.
They said everything, and sojust from that alone I have so
many stories to tell my ownchildren.
I love to tell them the storiesof just White Rock Baptist
Church Mr Bland, mr Kenan Bland,miss Vivian Bland, all of the
(09:15):
educators that were in thechurch with us, mr David Lyons,
miss Annette Lyons.
We had Bank President, mrSylvester Jennings, the first
Black bank president.
We had Black history everySunday and we didn't even
realize until we got older andthis younger generation has no
(09:35):
earthly idea on the fact, therichness of what Danville's
community has to offer.
It's amazing.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah, it is amazing and I will say one of the
benefits I had although I didn'tgrow up in Danville is I did
get to take a class with ourUncle Wayman.
So Uncle Wayman was mygrandfather's brother and he was
a doctor of philosophy at A&Tand I remember taking his class
and just how much knowledge hehad and just the level of just
(10:05):
not critical thinking butphilosophical thinking, his
ability to juxtapose ideasagainst each other.
I do think that having acommunity of learners and
lifelong learners is really agame changer as an educator.
So talk to me about you.
Get into the.
You know you decide to go intoeducation Like what was the
(10:28):
first year like for you.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Well, it was a rude awakening because the children
bless their hearts were not asreceptive as I was hoping they
would be not as receptive as Iwas hoping they would be.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
What do?
Speaker 1 (10:48):
you want to learn.
That's not every child want tobe in the classroom and so
that's just a whole struggle initself.
But once you get past thebehavior barriers and you make
those relationships, thenthey're eager to learn.
So you have to tell a lot ofstories.
(11:08):
You have to make theminterested first, and then
they're receptive to whateveryou're trying to say to them.
But most definitely it wassomething else.
It really was.
The attitudes were out of thisworld.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
And what age did you start?
What grade level?
Speaker 1 (11:27):
I started with 12th grade, 10th grade and 9th grade,
so I had three grade levelswhen I first came in.
And now when I came in, I hadno experience whatsoever.
I didn't go to school forteaching.
I was going to school to becomewell, I was going to school to
become a reporter.
Going to school to become.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Well, I was going to school to become a reporter.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
I was going for communication and as I was
reporting for the DanvilleRegister and Bee, I was asked I
was covering the education beat.
And I was asked hey, you'recovering the education beat,
would you like to become ateacher?
Because we need an Englishteacher, we need several English
teachers actually, so we'd loveto have you.
I said, oh, I don't think I'minterested in that.
And so they had severalprincipals call me and I said,
(12:08):
well, maybe so, my goodness.
So that was.
That was a real rude awakening,but I've loved it ever since.
But it did take about twomonths to get the hang of it,
you know, to have threedifferent, three different
curriculums going, threedifferent sets of students I
(12:28):
mean students who were literallyokay with having, you know,
wrestling on the floor as I wascoming into class to teach them,
you know.
So they really had to have alot of rules put in place, a lot
of structure put in place, butthankfully we lived through it.
That was my first year 20 yearsago.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Now you are what I would consider a veteran in the
high school education space.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
You've taught all grade levels in high school.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Yes, okay, and that's been mainly your space.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Yes, so 9th and 11th and 12th yes.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Which is a nice little cross section of phases
and development.
20 years in you received, wasit?
Last year you received theTeacher of the Year.
Award.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Last year.
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
So tell me what that felt like.
You finally like a whole20-year career.
You get the Teacher of the YearAward.
What did that feel like for you?
Speaker 1 (13:40):
I was very humbled that my colleagues considered me
worthy to get Teacher of theYear.
I worked very hard to make surethat they have a Black history
program, to make sure that wehave a lot of tutoring for
children, just to help you knowany of them, anything that they
need, and so to think that theywould do that for me, I was just
(14:04):
.
I just couldn't believe it.
I just couldn't believe it.
I was at a loss for words andeven now still I'm at a loss of
words that they would even dothat.
I really am.
That's an award.
I want to say once again, theother teachers voted me for that
.
So the teachers at GeorgeWashington High School.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Right, but your career hasn't always been
sunshine and rainbows, right.
Talk to me about you know.
The first time you know we cansave the names to respect the
guilty and the innocent, thefirst encounter you had with a
bad leader or bad leadershipskills as you're working as a
(14:46):
teacher what was that like?
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Well, I do want to say that within 20 years I have
not had many bad encounters.
That is a definite blessing,but of the encounters that I
have had, they have been majorones.
I've had a couple of newprincipals.
Well, let me rephrase that.
(15:10):
I've had a principal who camein and she was very rude to me
in front of my classroom.
She was demeaning, yelled at me, didn't like the lesson that I
had prepared for my students,and you know what.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Ms Anderson, what you doing Like what?
Speaker 1 (15:35):
No, she came in.
She came in.
She was actually a very new.
She was a new principal fromanother state.
She was making rounds.
She had only been there maybetwo and a half weeks, but the
two and a half weeks that shehad been there it seemed like we
had been in school 20 weeks.
(15:59):
Because of the way she wastalking to the staff and the
teachers.
It was a long two weeks.
And when she came in I can'texactly remember what she said
but she did not like a movieclip that I was showing and the
discussion we were having abouta way that was.
I think I was showing a movieto compare to a book and it was
(16:25):
maybe like a five minute clipand she wasn't.
She didn't appreciate that andshe stood up and told me not to
show that again and the childrenturned and looked at her.
They couldn't believe that shewas saying that because there
was nothing wrong with it and Ijust sort of kept on going.
I did not even acknowledge her,I just kept on going and she
(16:47):
ranted a little bit and she leftand slammed the door.
She slammed the door and wejust kept on going and the
students were very upset but wejust kept on going.
We were very upset.
There was another time when I'vehad an administrator make other
(17:12):
comments to other teachers,calling them stupid in meetings.
So not to me, but calling otherteachers stupid, but calling
other teachers stupid.
I've heard administrators andwhen I say administrators I'm
not just talking aboutprincipals talking to someone in
the school board office, maybetalking negatively about people
(17:38):
in the community or students orother teachers.
I've heard someone speakingvery negatively towards a
student, very negatively, andthose things impact the students
because it doesn't matter, evenif a student is unsure about
wanting to be there, regardlessof what the student has going on
(18:01):
, the student still expects theteacher, the administrator, to
do their job and to lead them.
They still expect, they wantstructure, regardless of
whatever they say.
They're yearning for that,they're yearning for that.
And so you've got to be aspolite and you've got to be as
pleasant and you've got to tryto.
(18:22):
You know, manage and do yourjob the best you can.
And when you're not pleasant,when you are not polite, when
you are just, you know negativeto that child, what kind of
impact can you have?
You don't know what these kidsgo through when they're at home.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
But so I want to.
I want to kind of rewind backto the, the leader who came into
your classroom and startedcriticizing and what have you?
What was, what was the outcomeof that situation between?
Did you go back to her and say,hey, listen, I didn't
appreciate that, or I want tounderstand where you're coming
from, or did you kind of justshut yourself out of it and just
(19:02):
keep going?
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Well, that's a good question.
At that time, I believetensions were so high there was
not going to be a.
That would not have been aviable solution to do that.
No, I sort of let that go.
I did write it up and I didsend um.
Oh, I wrote it, I documented itand I believe I submitted um a
(19:26):
letter to school board membersabout that but wait a minute, I
gotta.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
I gotta do this because I tell everybody all of
the time when it comes to poorbehavior and leaders at work
document everything.
So proud of you for documentingeverything, everything.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
I'm so proud of you for documenting everything.
Documents, documents, and I did.
I did submit to school boardmembers and later on that young
lady she was no longer.
She was let go later on butthere were other issues that
were going on.
So she she only spent aboutmaybe a half a year with us and
she went on her way about, maybea happier with us, and she went
(20:09):
on her way.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
I will say that my professional diagnosis and
experience, regardless of theindustry, is that when a leader,
especially at the executivelevel, comes in hot like that,
where they're criticizing andberating or extremely I'd say,
acutely aware of the negativethings happening in a situation
be it a school or corporatesituation or whatever what
(20:33):
happens is during the interviewprocess, they are hired with the
concept and the intent of likewe're bringing you in to fix
this.
They're brought in with likelisten, these people are not
doing their thing, your team's alittle this, your team's a
little that from some otherperson and they've got the
impression they typically getthe impression that they have to
(20:56):
come in in clean house and noone ever tells y'all that we're
in this workforce of like hey,listen, this person's coming to
whip you into shape, right, andmore often than not, the person
that's doing the appointment hasno relationship or even context
or facts around that.
Often Sometimes, it's true,sometimes it's not with some
(21:30):
mission of setting the house inorder.
That does not take into accountthe need to observe before they
start disrupting things and tolearn before they start
disrupting things.
So if you're a leader listeningand you're a new leader.
I encourage you to get the bookthe First 90 Days.
I encourage you to do listeningtours before you start touching
stuff, because more often thannot you've gotten one side of
seven sides of a story and youdon't know what to change,
(21:54):
because you don't know whatyou're getting ready to blow up
and it sounds like a combinationof that and the leader just not
having a lot of tact and graceand the leader does not have a
lot of tact and grace?
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Yeah, and then also Natalie.
There was another time when nowI got along with another
administrator.
He was a very nice fellow, butas far as his leadership skills
I do question them.
Because there was an issuewhere I felt that another
employee was inappropriate withsome of our female students and
(22:32):
when I, as a mandated reporter,reported that it was ignored.
I reported again and later on,and then it got to the point
where the students were comingto me and talking to me and
complaining about it.
So my conversation with thestudents were ladies, tell your
(22:56):
parents, tell the principal,report it, because it's
(23:33):
inappropriate for a man to be,especially a man who is working
here, to be me talking about.
I shouldn't be telling theseyoung ladies that it's
inappropriate, but it wasinappropriate.
But yet I sat there and Ilistened and I sat there and I
listened and I'm going to tellyou why.
And this and it makes me sortof laugh to myself, because I
(23:54):
believe these three young menfelt that my silence was that my
silence was weakness, but itwasn't.
Was that my silence wasweakness, but it wasn't.
Because I had nothing personalagainst that young man who I
reported as a mandated reporter,nothing personal at all.
I didn't know that young man,personally I didn't.
(24:17):
But as a mandated reporter Ineed to report it.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
But if I had said I'm sorry, please, no, no, no, so
for the finish your to finishyour thought, because I want to
also explain to people whatmandatory reporting is,
especially in the educationspace.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Oh sure, okay, so, but the thing is that I wasn't
going to argue about the man'scase, because then that would
make it seem like I wanted theman to be guilty.
I'm just telling you all thatthis is what's going on.
So I wasn't trying to sit overhere and go and have an argument
(24:56):
with them.
I'm just telling you all thisis what's going on.
So it's your.
It's your at this point, yourresponsibility as the
administrators, as the mansupervisor, to talk to this man
and ask this man what's going on, to talk to the children, to
talk to witnesses.
But that wasn't done at thattime.
(25:18):
They talked to me about okay,you shouldn't be saying this.
And we don't want to hear yousaying this again.
No, I am't be saying this andwe don't want to hear you saying
this again.
No, I am going to say this aslong as these children come to
me and tell me I'm going to saybut I did my part, I reported it
, and a school board and someonefrom the school board office
and the principal and the youngman who I accused.
(25:39):
Thankfully I had a femaleprincipal who was actually in
the room as well, but I justcouldn't believe, and she was a
witness.
I wouldn't have a me withouther, but I just couldn't believe
that this is.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Bullying at its finest.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
It is because you're upset, because I'm saying this
man is inappropriate with theseyoung ladies.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Or at least that has been alleged, right.
So this is what I.
It's been alleged.
It's, I understand.
It's been alleged.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
It's been alleged.
It's been alleged, so I'mtelling you what I see.
I'm telling you what the kidsare saying.
So, if that's the case, do aninvestigation on that.
But I'm saying that this isgoing on, and as long as I've
been in education, really aslong as I've been a watch how
you handle other people'schildren.
You don't know what somebody'schild might say.
So why is it that now, all of asudden, it's almost as free
(26:31):
reign to be so carefree withother people's children,
especially these men?
They're so carefree talking tothese young girls in high school
.
I don't understand it.
Do you not value your job, doyou not?
Speaker 2 (26:48):
So a couple of things One tell everybody.
For the folks who don't know, Iwas going to explain a
dictionary earlier but I did notdo.
But let's talk about, becausesome people have never seen a
dictionary.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
But let's talk to the folks about what mandatory
reporting is, why it's necessaryand how you are accountable for
mandatory reporting as aneducator in your state abused, a
child that might be hurt, if Isee anything that does not seem
to fit the healthy bill of achild walking in the building to
(27:31):
be educated, if I see anythingthat might be awry with this
child, it is my responsibilityto alert administration, for the
school, to alert socialservices and for there to be an
investigation to make sure thatchild is not being abused in
some way or form.
Whether the child comes in withtattered clothes.
(27:52):
The child comes in lookinghungry.
The child comes in and saysthat he or she is in distress
physically.
The child comes in and sayssomeone is touching them, saying
something inappropriately, Imean someone's hitting the poor
child.
It doesn't matter, I've got tosay something.
If I don't say something and itcomes out that the child was in
(28:13):
distress and the child had saidsomething to me or I was aware
of it, then I can go to jail andlose my job.
So that is what a teacher issupposed to do, you know.
So, with that being said, if I'min the conversation and kids
are talking about inappropriatethings being said to them by
(28:35):
someone who is a grown man inthe school, working in the
school, my lord Guess what I'vegot to report it If I see
something that doesn't lookquite right.
And I'm not saying quite righton a oh, I'm going to
investigate, I'm just sayingquite right, as I'm a grown
(28:57):
woman who has a child and Iwouldn't want my child to be
talked to like that or my childto be around something like that
.
This doesn't look quite right.
It's my responsibility toreport that.
We have cameras all over theschool, so if something is going
on and then they go, look atthe camera well, ms Anderson was
in the vicinity.
(29:17):
Why didn't you say somethingabout?
Speaker 2 (29:20):
it.
But, Anne, what do you say topeople who I'm sure I'm sure I'm
a here to this?
I'm sure people are like, yeah,but these girls out here in
high school looking like they intheir late twenties and they
fast and blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah.
What do you say to that?
The over, theover-sexualization of high
school kids.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
And and that is exactly right they um, and they
do look like they're grown women.
They may act like they're grownwomen and they may love any
type of attention that they getfrom a man or a woman at this
point.
They may love it.
But, with that being said,there still has to be a boundary
(30:03):
a healthy boundary between anadult and a child, and in the
real world, while there may notalways be that healthy boundary
between an adult and a child inthe school system, there's
supposed to be, be they'resupposed to be, and so you have
(30:23):
this.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
they basically staged this intervention for you, who
are not the culprit of theaccused thing.
That was said to the childreninappropriately, they staged
this intervention.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
They staged it.
I didn't stage it, that's whatI'm saying.
They staged it.
Yeah, they staged it.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
The first thing that comes to mind is the lyrics from
the Dukes of Hazzard Just thegood old boys.
Boys never made no home, andit's an ode to men taking care
of men.
Yes, this principal, this otherprincipal female in there with
you.
What happens at the end of theconversation?
Because I can appreciate it, Ithink it's a really strategic
move on your part.
It's like you know what I'm notgoing to argue with you.
(31:01):
I said what I said.
Don't ask me again and it's onrecord that I said what I said.
And now it's your liability,not mine.
What happens after that?
Like, how are you treated?
What's like?
Does the other young lady inthe room say, like you know what
she's right?
Like what's, what's?
What's the tea in the room?
The female witness.
She was quiet and listened.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
That's all she did, which I appreciate that I
listened and they felt like theywon.
And were you?
They felt like they won.
That, what, that's what thatthat's.
They felt they won and that'swhat that was their feeling that
(31:52):
they had won.
Now, it wasn't my feeling atall, because I said what I'd
said.
I didn't back down, I wasn'tupset, I wasn wasn't mad.
I said what I said.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
And I think so sidebar, right.
So again, we're talking aboutbad bosses.
When dealing with a bully, oneof the things to master and I
think you're displaying this tous is like maintain your own
composure.
Yeah, because the bully feedson fear and I've said it before,
you can't control what somebodyelse's fears.
Right, if they fear you, theyfear your intellect, they feel
(32:28):
your positioning, they fear thatyou're going to say the truth.
Right, there's all these lawsbecause people, when they
operate in fear, they make verybad decisions and they typically
try to lean on or oppressanother person.
The best thing you can do isone, be strategic.
Two, maintain your composure.
There's no, especially in apower situation, because you
(32:49):
didn't have power in theconversation, it was the person
trying to intimidate you intosome level of submission, right,
right, and being able tomaintain your composure to say
I've said what I said, I don'tneed to repeat myself, let's
move on.
So you leave the room.
They think they got the W.
(33:10):
Then what happens?
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Well, nothing happened for a while.
Things went on as usual.
Coincidentally, I want to saymaybe eight, nine months later,
the young man unfortunately losthis job when his wife found out
(33:46):
that he was trying to talk to achild's mother at the school.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
I know you lied.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
And apparently she put the information on Facebook
and was upset with that onFacebook and was upset with that
.
And then she came up to theschool with, if I'm not mistaken
, a hammer or a bat, maybe bothof those, and he went and he ran
and hid and it was a big messand he and well, all I can say
(34:20):
is, as Aunt Jenny might say, themess hit the fan.
So you know, but you know, Ihate that for these young people
.
I hate that because we'resupposed to be role models and
so, lord knows, I didn't takeany.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
I was, I was.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
I was really hoping that, that they could be True
role models for the children,because the children seemed to
enjoy a lot of children seem toenjoy the fellow when he was
there working and I was hopingthat, you know, he would get
himself together and I washoping that you know I'd be
(35:04):
wrong and that the allegationsthat were being said, you know,
were not going to be correct.
But, needless to say and Ican't tell you what was, what
was, I just know what I saw,what I was hearing, but I had to
report it.
But that is what happened tothe young man and I was very
sorry to hear that.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
I hate it for him and I feel like I just heard like
the ending of a very interestingTyler Perry show with the lady
and the hammer.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
My God, you can't, you can't make this stuff up,
you really can't so, but butthis is.
This is my thing, though, whywe talk about this good old boy
network has still.
We, as women, are fighting tobe heard in the workplace.
What we say seems to never beheard.
(35:53):
It's never heard, and so I'mjust wondering why is it Men who
are professionals, who haveworked hard and are making huge
(36:14):
salaries in the school system,put their, put their jobs on the
line for someone, for someoneelse like that, who actually is
you know what has that type ofbehavior?
Why would you do that?
You know, be professional, beprofessional.
All you have to do is just beprofessional, be professional,
(36:36):
and you don't have to worryabout that.
Have those talks with yoursubordinates.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Yeah, I've found it's funny.
I've had my fair share ofinternal investigations of staff
members and finding out thatthere were relationships that
were inappropriate that muchlike I don't say every man, but
a lot of men will more thanlikely either default to minding
(37:12):
their own business anddefaulting to not being
suspicious and curious and leanon the bias of oh, he's cool, he
wouldn't do that.
There's this interesting Idon't want to say logic, but
just an assumption like nah, hewould never do that, and they
and they move on and you neverknow how you're painted in the
(37:33):
conversation of either well, shewants me, or she's jealous, or
all of the 17 things he probablytold himself to jump right and
so, and and you know you have anearned reputation of being
feisty, right and so I think,tell me so.
(38:03):
I think people find that bothintimidating and maybe even
off-putting, because you, youdon't mince words.
We didn't grow up in houseswhere you minced words.
It was either white or black,yes or no.
You did it or you didn't.
And even if you didn't, youstill might get a spanking for
it because somebody did it.
If we can't find some help forit, right, Ain't none of y'all
going to fess up and everybodygetting a punishment?
And so this, the system of bothtruth and justice that I have
(38:30):
witnessed you live by, is notuniversal.
Not everybody has those values,Not everybody has that muster,
Not everybody has thatcommitment and dedication to
this kind of concepts of likeit's right is right and wrong is
wrong In a lot of places it'svery relative in a lot of places
(38:51):
it's very relative.
So talk to me about you know youhave like a thousand and one
stories, there's just so many togo into.
You do a lot outside of theschool system.
Like you tutor.
You've been in mental health.
Like, talk to me about thethings that you've seen from a
(39:11):
mental health perspective indealing with being an educator
and what challenges you see withteachers and the things that
they face.
I see a lot of burnout.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
I see teachers that do not know how to say no.
I see teachers that do not knowhow to say no.
They take on too manycommitments and it's not because
they don't have the ability tocontrol their schedule.
It's because they just havethat love, they have that
(39:45):
passion.
I myself have the same problem.
You know, I want to do athousand things and my body and
my time unfortunately can't takecare of all these things.
But a lot of teachers they windup not being able to do their
meditation, their mindfulnessexercises, which is what they
(40:07):
definitely need to do.
Teachers need to be able to,please, use your counseling
services.
You need a counselor.
You need to be able to vent andtalk to someone.
Don't go home and vent.
No, don't go home and vent,because your loved ones will be
tired of hearing it.
You need to go to someone.
(40:29):
I'm sure you have benefits.
Go to a counselor, a medicaltrained counselor, and let them
tell you and they'll probablytell you the same thing.
They'll probably tell you deepbreathing exercises.
They'll tell you, you know,keep a journal.
They'll tell you, thinkpositive thoughts.
They'll tell you to sing.
They'll tell you to have, youknow, a special day for yourself
(40:49):
.
You know, take 15 minutes eachday, maybe listen to a certain
song, maybe take a long bubblebath.
You've got to have some type ofrelaxation time for yourself and
of course you know this stuff,but sometimes it takes somebody
else to tell you that and you'vegot to be able to also talk to
somebody outside of yourhousehold.
(41:10):
You've got to.
So please take care of yourself, because it's terrible to be
burned out and if you are burnedout, you're not going to be
able to do your job.
You're going to wind upresenting your job and your
students are going to.
They're going to understandthat that enthusiasm that you
had in your eyes when you walkedinto that classroom the first
day is going to be gone by weeksix, by week six, not week 26.
(41:36):
By week six.
So please take care of yourselfand understand that you are
just as important as thestudents.
You're just as important asyour children, as your husband,
as your mother, as anybody else,your neighbors you're taking
care of, as your dogs.
You are important, so treatyourself accordingly as well.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
What about the school system, Ann?
Because you said all.
Really, I agree with you on athousand fronts.
But what is it about thecurrent environment in the
education space that leads tosome of this burnout, that leads
to people being asked over andover again to extend beyond
what's on the job description orwhat can be fit into their work
hours?
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Well, first of all, there's so much that we have to
do in a short amount of timethat you feel like you'll never
get it done.
And so you're taking so muchwork home with you.
I mean, the work isoverpowering.
So it's not just teaching theclasses, it's the lesson
planning, it's the preparationfor the classes, it's all the
(42:47):
other mentoring that you have todo, it's all the other
assignments that they plan foryou to do, it's when you're
voluntold to take on committeesand voluntold for other jobs.
I mean there's so many thingsbecause pretty much with our
contract, you're told that youare owned from 8 o'clock to 3.30
(43:07):
.
And so you're pretty muchexpected to do what they told
you to do.
You pretty much are expected.
And then a lot of times youfeel like if you complain about
a lot of stuff, you might Idon't know, you might be
retaliated against.
There is that air ofretaliation.
(43:31):
There really is.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
Tell me about experience that you've witnessed
this retaliation.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
Maybe not you, but I've witnessed people maybe not
being promoted to different jobsbecause they might complain
about different things.
They felt that their rightswere being violated.
I have, wow, I mean it's scary.
(44:00):
It's scary when you are, whenyou have worked so hard and went
to school for so long to youknow, to be in a profession and
you feel that that can bejeopardized by you saying no to
something, by you asking not todo something, by you asking
(44:20):
maybe for help with something.
That is that is terrifying, byyou saying that you don't think
that something is correct.
I myself, I was afraid that Iwas going to be and I was going
to face that.
When about maybe I want to sayit might have been February we
(44:42):
had an issue with our taxwithholding.
It was a tax withholdingscandal at Danville Public
Schools where somehow I don'tknow how, but Danville Public
Schools was not able to honormost of the employees on federal
W-4s, and so we didn't.
(45:03):
Most of the employees didn'tfind that out until we got our
W-2s and we found out hold for asecond, these look a little
different.
We started getting our taxesdone and we're wait a minute.
Why do we owe so much moneyback?
Hold on, this is not right.
And so, when this startedcoming out, a lot of people felt
like we were being victimized,because we were told well, you
(45:29):
all weren't checking your paystubs or you all must not have
done your W-4s correctly, andthat was.
And a lot of people were soupset, but people were afraid to
say something because you wereafraid of what was going to come
from saying something.
Well, I went to the schoolboard and I said something my
three-minute speech on how Lordhave mercy, my three minutes.
(45:54):
Odessa prepared you.
Well, exactly three minutesthey give you on how true that
it wasn't our fault and how wewere victimized.
And the very children?
The very children, becausewe're taking care of low income
children in Danville, virginia,yet you're tearing the houses,
(46:18):
the households of the verychildren, up, because we're the
parents of the children who goto your schools, and so our
households are going tofinancially suffer because of
the mistake that has been made.
So, yes, while we did get thatmoney during the year, we were
not aware of that.
We're not accountants.
(46:40):
And to tell me that I shouldhave been looking at my check
stub I'm not an accountant butI've been working for well over
32 years.
I have never had to look atMcDonald's, I never had to check
with Family Dollar.
I've been with this schoolsystem for almost 20 years at
that time and I never had aproblem.
(47:00):
Now it's a problem.
Now I've got to check it, whichI'm saying.
It's good to check stuff, butonce again, I didn't know.
I would not have known if theywere taking the correct amount.
We were getting differentraises and things, so it was
very hard for us to understandthat.
Apparently, it was hard becausethey didn't get it right.
Needless to say, I was very, Iwas very worried that I was
(47:24):
going to face some backlash fromthat, and I was thankful that I
had the DEA, the DanvilleEducators Association, behind me
, because I was talking onbehalf of my peers and my you
know fellow associates when Imade that statement.
Yet yet, a month, not even amonth after that happened, not
(47:58):
even a month after that happened, I was assaulted by an employee
in the hallways at GeorgeWashington High School, and I
want to get into all of it.
But the young man assaulted me.
He grabbed me and I thought I'dhandled it.
(48:19):
I told him to leave me aloneand he left me.
He did leave me alone.
So I thought I'd a littlemeltdown, a little PTSD, because
I am a survivor of domesticviolence.
(48:41):
It triggered something in me.
So it triggered something in methat man had never done
anything to me before in thepast no, but another man had.
So, with that being the case,that triggered my feelings and I
was having a very hard timegoing to work and so I had to
write that up and I felt I wastreated as a victim again
(49:02):
because, well, why are you justnow doing this, you know, and it
took a long, you know, and Icouldn't.
I could tell all the details,but I couldn't tell you today,
you know, and I couldn't.
I could tell him all thedetails, but I couldn't tell you
the day.
It's like my mind had, my mindhad blocked a lot of stuff out.
Yet my students remembered,because the young man went into
the classroom after me, after me, didn't realize I had class,
(49:23):
didn't realize I had class.
So he was pursuing you into theclassroom.
He pursued me into theclassroom after I broke away
from him.
He did moved me into theclassroom after I broke away
from him.
He did, but, needless to say, Iwas told they couldn't find the
footage.
All those cameras, theycouldn't find the footage.
They did a short investigation,it was over and I said well,
(49:50):
it's over just like that.
Yeah, well now, mind you, theyoung man didn't speak to me
after I didn't speak to him, butstill, I'm having a hard time,
even working in the building.
I'm having a hard time.
So they told me I was welcometo leave and go to another
(50:14):
school if I needed to.
What about my son?
My son's going to be a seniorand he knows this man assaulted
me.
I'd like to be with my son.
Oh, he'd go to another schooltoo.
Wow, so I've been here 20 years.
So I went into spring, springbreak, after I've given 20 years
(50:36):
to the school system, beingtold, well, I could just, you
know, go wherever I want to.
If that's the case, I startednot to even sign my contract.
But but so I prayed, and thisis where you have to decide what
(50:57):
is best for you.
What?
Because I was not going to comeback, but I had to talk with my
family, my son, my daughterswhat's best for our family, what
was best for me for the otherchildren that I teach?
(51:18):
And I got myself together.
I said hold on for a minute.
Let me not forget who I am andwhat my rights are.
Let me sit up a little bit so Ican talk to you about this.
Let me not forget who I am andget myself together.
What my rights are, know whatyour rights are, seek legal
(51:44):
counsel, research, investigateso I found out what research
investigate.
So I found out what my rightswere.
Don't wait for your employer totell you what your rights are.
You see, I had a momentary lapseand we all go have those
(52:04):
sometimes because I was notstrong at that moment.
For about a good couple ofweeks I wasn't strong.
I wasn't strong at all, but youknow what I got myself right.
Of weeks I wasn't strong.
I wasn't strong at all, but youknow what I got myself right.
On back, I got myself togetherand started thinking thank you,
lord, I sure did, got myselfright together and got my
research done and I found my andfound, got my legal rights in
(52:28):
and what I was able to do.
And we had another and therewound up being another
investigation and they were ableto move the young man to
another school when I wouldn'thave to look at him.
Now I want to, for the record,say I wasn't going to put
(52:48):
anybody in jail.
I want the man to keep hishands off me and stay away from
me, and that's what I wanted andthat's what we got.
Yeah, but now, if need be, Iknow what my rights were.
Speaker 2 (53:09):
One.
I want to say thank you forbeing vulnerable and sharing
your.
You know it's a.
It's a very meaningful, deep,painful experience and we don't
we don't typically share, wedon't typically hear people
willing to share that side ofwhat happens, the darker side of
(53:31):
not being supported, the darkerside of what happens in these
very close proximity spaces, thedarker side of being triggered
by a previous event, like all ofthat, is so both vulnerable and
I know someone will beencouraged by the fact that you
(53:56):
found yourself.
Let me go.
Speaker 1 (54:00):
I hope so, I pray that, because you know if I can
help somebody, if I can helpsomebody, then my living has not
been in vain.
Speaker 2 (54:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:11):
It's not been in vain .
Speaker 2 (54:13):
And I think that's one of a really great takeaway
of like don't forget who you are, don't forget who you are,
don't forget what your rightsare.
And if you don't know what yourrights are, go find out.
And it's best to know thembefore you get in the situation.
But even if you can't know inthat moment, going to find it
afterwards is, I think, isreally, really.
(54:34):
I guess the question I have foryou now, anne, is how do how do
you choose to start back againin the fall?
Like what?
What conscious choice are youmaking?
Knowing that you weren'tsupported, knowing that you had
to create accountability whereit didn't exist?
Like, if I think of like all ofthe like my boss sucks.
(54:57):
Situations like this for me islike deep.
This is like.
This isn't just likeinterpersonal crisis.
This is I was physicallyassaulted, I had every right to
press charges, have a trial,whatever that was right, and
knowing that you didn't have thesupport, knowing that you were
(55:18):
in the right, knowing that thereis a shadow of even
inappropriateness between thecoincidence of like y'all ain't
do my paycheck right to now,y'all not gonna look at my
situation right likecoincidental.
I ain't gonna say it's causality, but it is a big coincidence,
right, right.
(55:38):
How do you choose now?
What are you choosing this fall?
What are you choosing as youenter into this, next year?
What are you choosing and howyou show up based on all of that
?
Because a lot of people I knowas women, some of us, can't get
over stuff like that.
Some of us are like you knowwhat.
We just weigh down.
(55:59):
We get to the point where wefeel so low or so selfless and
all of the things.
How are you choosingdifferently?
Speaker 1 (56:06):
Triumph, triumph.
I'm walking in like a queen, doyou hear me?
Because I have battled.
I have battled.
I feel like I've come throughthe battle and my armor is
strong.
I'm thankful.
I am so thankful and I feelstronger than ever.
(56:28):
And sometimes I guess you haveto go through things to to
better appreciate things and Iappreciate myself.
I appreciate myself so muchmore now I do.
I have never been so much moreproud of myself as a strong
(56:54):
woman.
I never have.
I never have, because I can'tbelieve, because I'm going to be
honest with you, first of all,going through domestic violence
and going through and dealingwith that and then thinking
you've healed, then to betriggered again and then to
still go and as a single parent,having to feel like I'm
(57:19):
fighting my employer, mylivelihood, and knowing I'm
right oh, and I'm not saying Iwant to have to be in a struggle
by any means, I don't but toknow that I feel that God was on
my side because I had I hadright was on my side and I was
going to fight tooth and nail.
Speaker 2 (57:38):
Look, it's like that and I wasn't asking for a lot.
Speaker 1 (57:40):
How can you?
I wasn't even asking for a lot.
Just move the young man toanother location, move him to
another location and thank God,he's gone Another location.
And you know what?
Now he's their liability.
He's their liability.
You've been told what he did.
Speaker 2 (57:59):
He's their liability now, which is kind of a theme if
you think about it.
Wow, think about that.
Speaker 1 (58:09):
Wow, Wow.
Can you imagine that?
Can you imagine that?
Wow.
So what I want, what I want totake away, is know your rights,
Everything that you read andeverything that they expect you
to do.
Make sure you read everything.
Make sure you everything youhave to sign, Make sure you read
(58:30):
everything.
Make sure you, well, everythingyou have to sign, make sure you
read it.
Go on there and do your job, butdo what you can, but make sure
that you understand yourclassroom culture and love your
kids.
Do it for your passion oftaking care of these kids,
because you can't get everythingdone.
There's no way in the worldthat everything is going to be
done.
No way in the world.
(58:50):
Don't let even it doesn'tbother me.
I'll shake my head and say,okay, I'll do the best I can.
When 345 comes, hey, it is whatit is, I've done the best I
could do.
But you know what?
I'm going to make sure thesekids have what they need.
And if it's not in theircurriculum A, these are seniors
(59:13):
trying to graduate.
They still need to get acollege application done.
They have to get a scholarshipdone.
We're going to get some stuffdone, so we're going to try to
find some time for that.
So you know what?
A we'll do the best we can.
The world is not going to end.
Speaker 2 (59:28):
I love it.
I love it, the world is notgoing to end.
Speaker 1 (59:30):
It's not going to end .
I love it.
The world is not going to end.
Go ahead.
You want to finish?
Oh, I'm sorry, but I also wantto add but the way they hold,
the way our employers try tohold us accountable for
(59:50):
professionalism, hold themaccountable too, and for every,
oh my goodness, for everyprocedure that they say they're
going to follow, for everypolicy they're going to work on.
Oh yeah, make sure that whenyou have an issue, they follow
that doggone policy as well,that procedure.
Make sure you understand thattoo.
Read the fine print.
Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
I fully agree with you.
I fully agree with you and Itell people all the time go find
your handbook, go find yourpolicies and procedures.
And in the age of AI, I don'tknow, it's not a good answer,
it's not an acceptable answer,not when you can put the PDF
into your chat of choice, right,and then ask it based on the
situation.
(01:00:28):
What can I not do with theinformation?
Don't be lazy.
Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
I do want, oh if I can, natalie, also make sure
that you find your unionrepresentative and make sure
that you befriend your unionrepresentative, know your
resources and do not be afraid,when you have an issue, to take
(01:00:58):
your union representative withyou to your human resource
meeting with your supervisorsand if there's a problem, then
they have the problem.
That's your right.
That is your right.
It's just amazing how, howadministration will sometimes
you know schedule meetings foryou know and changing meetings
(01:01:27):
at the last minute.
It's really amazing how they dothat.
But I'm going to tell you all,so many employees are afraid to
reach out to their unionrepresentatives, their DEA
representatives, or the DEA ortheir NEA, it doesn't matter but
they're afraid because they'reafraid that they're going to get
(01:01:47):
in trouble with thesuperintendent or the school
board members who cares?
That's your right to havesomeone there and when you're in
the middle of a crisis, youneed somebody with a level head
to take notes for you, with alevel head, to be your witness,
because they might be the oneswho are going to have your back
and have a lawyer for you.
So please make sure you havesomebody there with you.
(01:02:12):
Please make sure, because whenyou're in a crisis, your
employer doesn't have your back.
Just being honest with you haveyour own back, please do.
I beg you all to have that.
Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
So it's interesting, like the HR person in me is like
, but you don't need the union,and then, like the recovering
non-HR person is like, get yourunion.
My dad, having been the shopsteward at Teamsters, local 830,
it's important to have anadvocate when you can't advocate
for whatever that looks likeRight, especially someone who
(01:02:46):
knows the system, becauseoftentimes we work inside a
system and because you're asubset of the greater system,
you don't know the entire system.
You know your classroom, youmight know some of the other
ancillary support systems aroundyou, but you don't know the
overarching system.
That's all the more reason tophone a friend, to call in a
(01:03:06):
resource to make sure you havemore than you do at the table
when you're having theconversation, because it's
unfortunate to say, but youcan't assume that the other
party is going to operate ingood faith.
They're going to operate intheir best interest and with
that in mind, it's important tohave someone to help level the
(01:03:27):
playing field of that interest.
Speaker 1 (01:03:28):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:03:31):
So, we're a little bit out of time, but I do want
to have this conversationbecause I've had it with
everyone about parents.
We've talked about theadministration, we talked about
kind of your, your, your nextlevel leader, talk to me about
parents being the bad boss Like.
What situations have you hadwhere you're like man?
I wish these parents would dodifferent and be different,
because it would make my jobeasier well, I've never had a
(01:03:57):
problem.
Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
Parents tell you the truth um, they've always been
supportive.
I've never had a problem.
Parents have always beensupportive how?
Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
how is being educated by Ms Anderson, different than
a lot of other teachers thatyou've been around?
Because I think, listening Iknow some of your stories,
knowing some of the things thatyou say to kids, I was like you
know, but it works for you itworks.
Speaker 1 (01:04:29):
Well, I tell them when they come into my classroom
, they are my children, they'remy children and I would not tell
them anything that I wouldn'ttell my own children.
And I have 35 year old childrenrunning around this town hey
(01:04:51):
how you doing, hey how you doing.
They'll stop and hug me.
I'm seeing the kids andeverything, but when they are my
children in the classroom,they're my children forever.
And so they know that when Iargue with them, sometimes I
argue with them.
You know I lay them out.
Sometimes you know we go backand forth a little bit, but they
know that I do that with love.
I'm the same every day.
(01:05:13):
I'm the same, the same.
They know I'm going to say it.
They know I'm going to say I'mconsistent.
That's the word.
I am consistent.
Speaker 2 (01:05:23):
And you have no problem embarrassing people if
you meet them.
Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
No problem at all.
But look, they give it to metoo now, with love.
They give it to me too now we,you know, we, we back and forth.
Sometimes we are back and fortha little, a little bit now I
love that.
I do enjoy, I really enjoyhaving that relationship with
them.
I really do with them.
Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
I really do.
What, as you, you know, 20 plusyears in let's just assume
you're going to, you know,retire in another 20 years,
whatever the number is, I knowit's probably more like 10, but
when you retire, what's onething you want people, your
students, your peers, what's thething you want them to say
about you and what they'velearned about you, learned from
you, as an educator.
Speaker 1 (01:06:17):
That I love each and every one of my students, love
each and every one of them.
They know it, they do, they do.
Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
Any final thoughts, Ann, as we wrap up our session
today.
Speaker 1 (01:06:34):
Well, I just want to thank you very much for having
me and for allowing me tohopefully inspire these new
teachers coming in.
And please, new teachers,please do not get tired of the
bureaucracy.
Just go in, you know.
Just remember that you have apassion for teaching.
Just do what you can do.
(01:06:54):
You are not a superhero.
Do what you can do, take careof yourself in all aspects your
mental health, your health andknow your legal rights at all
times and speak up for yourselfpolitely.
Speak up for yourself politely.
Speaker 2 (01:07:17):
Thanks, Sam.
Thanks so much for your time.
I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
Thank you so much, Natalie.
Speaker 2 (01:07:22):
Today's episode is brought to you by Natalie Parker
Enterprises, where we shape thefuture and unlock potential by
helping organizations and peoplework together to do good work.
Find out more atTheNatalieParkercom, or, if
you'd like to be a sponsor,email us at info at
TheNatalieParkercom.
As long as I've been in education really as long as
I've been a grown person I'vebeen told watch how you handle
other people's children.
Nine months later, the youngman lost his job when his wife
found out that he was trying totalk to a child's mother at the
(00:21):
school.
I know you're lying.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Welcome to.
So your Boss Sucks Now what.
I'm your host, natalie Parker.
Generally speaking, Iabsolutely frown upon most forms
of nepotism at work, but sinceit's my podcast and the person
I'm going to bring on is prettydope, we'll allow it.
My next guest is a family member.
(00:47):
She's actually my cousin, butshe's recently been awarded the
teacher of the year, and she hasveteran teaching status of over
20 years in her hometown ofDanville, virginia.
In this episode, we're going totalk about everything from her
chaotic first days as aneducator and why education for
her is so important in both herown upbringing and that of her
children.
We're going to talk about howshe echoes my sentiment of
(01:10):
document everything and how shesuffered public humiliation in
her classroom from a leader andhow she managed that.
We're also going to talk aboutsome real deep challenges she
had, with not only burnout, butalso a personal issue she had,
(01:31):
and how her leaders failed tosupport her, and what she did to
find herself and advocate forherself.
This episode is extremely deepand it also deals with some very
sensitive issues, and so Ichallenge you to listen with
care, give yourself grace andtake a minute and listen to my
conversation with my cousin AnneAnderson.
(01:53):
Hi, anne, it's good to have youon.
Sew your Boss Sex.
Now what?
How are you?
Fantastic, thank you so muchfor having me.
(02:18):
Listen, I'm excited to have youhave such a great longevity of
recognized experience, ofawarded experience.
But because you're my familyand so I'm going to put that out
(02:39):
there right now, this is my fam, so if y'all don't like this
episode, that's on y'all becausewe're going to have fun.
So listen, I want to talk about.
You hail from my mother'shometown, danville, virginia, as
my grandmother would call it,the Big D.
The Big D.
Tell me about when you knewthat teaching was the thing that
you were made to do.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Well, coming from the Big D and coming from the White
Rock community, we've had awealth of love.
You know, we were born in NewYork and my mother passed, and
we were very young.
This community rescued us theMcLaughlin family, White Rock
Hill.
They were so kind to us, theyjust brought us in with open
(03:22):
arms and this community has beenour home for well over 50 years
.
We have not wanted to leavehere because it has been the
root of everything for us.
I mean, it's just been our home.
So, with that being said, when Istarted having children, of
course I wanted to make surethat my children were rooted in
(03:43):
this community and of course Iwant to make sure that my
children got the same love thatwe had gotten.
And then I said, well, wait aminute, the love that this
community gave me I need to giveto other kids as well.
And so, with that being said,teaching was only natural, and I
(04:03):
believe that it's not just theeducational aspect of it but the
structure.
The kids need structure.
They need to know that they areloved, they need to know that
you know what's out there toprepare for the future, I mean
there needs to be a lot moregrounding, because today they
don't have the, as Aunt Jennywould say, the raising that we
(04:24):
had back in the day.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
It takes a village to raise a child, and that's what
we need to remember that so theAunt Jenny that you mentioned is
my grandmother, jennyMcLaughlin, who passed a few
years ago, and I miss her dearlyand she's one of the reasons
why I think I made my entreeinto corporate America, because
she used to call me MissExecutive Lady.
Every time she was like whereare you going, miss Executive
(04:47):
Lady?
And my grandmother was a partof the community that you talked
about.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
And.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I think the other thing that strikes me, as you're
you know, as I'm talking to you, is that I would say that our
family is full of what my UncleWesley, I remember he said this
one time in a sermon.
I thought it was like what ishe?
He's making up words.
Our family is full ofacademicians, right?
People who are deeplyenthralled and in love and
pursuing academia and all thingsacademic, and it makes sense to
(05:19):
me that you found space inthere.
It makes sense from you know mygrandfather, uncle Wayman, your
grandmother.
You know my grandfather, uncleWayman, your grandmother, like
they all, had such a deepunderstanding of the value of
capturing, retaining andrelaying knowledge in a way that
made it compelling.
It made it you wanted people tohear you know, to listen to
(05:40):
them and to tell the stories inthe way that they did Talk to me
about how growing up aroundthat knowledge bank, if you will
, kind of shaped you as aneducator.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
I remember Grandma Odessa, odessa P Watkins, and
she was, I want to say, a bishopin her right, because she went
from church to church to churchand she gave speeches all over
town.
And she would.
She was constantly writingspeeches, she was constantly
(06:14):
practicing speeches, constantlymaking us give welcome speeches
and the announcements and, oh mygoodness, you know, we had to
perform in every program.
It was just amazing and at onetime I remember man, why do we
have to always do this?
But it got to the point whereit was enthralled in us.
(06:36):
Well, we knew that was going to.
It was expected of us.
It was expected of us toperform.
It was expected of us to learn.
It was expected of us to learn.
It was expected of us to speakin church, in public, to read,
to make sure we enunciated.
I remember being young and yourgrandfather, uncle Ernest
(07:00):
McLaughlin.
He would make sure we haddictionaries at the house.
I couldn't go anywhere onSaturday mornings or really
early Saturday afternoon,because he'd be working on his
sermon and he would call me atany time to ask me how to spell
a word.
And I remember one time I madethe mistake of asking him why he
(07:23):
needed me to spell a word forhim because he was reading the
sermon.
No one was going to be readingthe sermon.
They would not know if the wordwas spelled incorrectly.
He laid me out, so I wouldnever ask him that again.
So I made sure I was alwaysavailable for Uncle Ernest.
I also remember Uncle Waymancoming down and we were always
(07:47):
having birthday celebrationseach month.
So, if you know, we might havefive people that had a birthday
in the month of July, and so wehad a big birthday celebration
and I loved it when Uncle Waymancame down, because I wanted him
to see something that I hadwritten in school, because he
(08:08):
would make over it.
So, oh, my goodness, he wouldsay I was the smartest thing and
he would, you know, read it.
And he would you know oh, if Iwas your teacher, I'd give you
an A for this, and this is whatI like the best.
And he would just.
He made me feel like I was thestar student I liked the best
and he would just, he made mefeel like I was the star student
(08:29):
.
He did, and I loved it.
So it was that type of support,that type of love.
You know, they all fit ourself-esteem, they fit our need
to, our need to learn, our needto be somebody, our need to know
what our niche was in life.
They fit our need to know ourcommunity, our need to know what
our niche was in life.
They said our need to know ourcommunity, our need to know our
heritage, our need to know youknow where we are past so we can
(08:53):
know what our future is.
They said everything, and sojust from that alone I have so
many stories to tell my ownchildren.
I love to tell them the storiesof just White Rock Baptist
Church Mr Bland, mr Kenan Bland,miss Vivian Bland, all of the
(09:15):
educators that were in thechurch with us, mr David Lyons,
miss Annette Lyons.
We had Bank President, mrSylvester Jennings, the first
Black bank president.
We had Black history everySunday and we didn't even
realize until we got older andthis younger generation has no
(09:35):
earthly idea on the fact, therichness of what Danville's
community has to offer.
It's amazing.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah, it is amazing and I will say one of the
benefits I had although I didn'tgrow up in Danville is I did
get to take a class with ourUncle Wayman.
So Uncle Wayman was mygrandfather's brother and he was
a doctor of philosophy at A&Tand I remember taking his class
and just how much knowledge hehad and just the level of just
(10:05):
not critical thinking butphilosophical thinking, his
ability to juxtapose ideasagainst each other.
I do think that having acommunity of learners and
lifelong learners is really agame changer as an educator.
So talk to me about you.
Get into the.
You know you decide to go intoeducation Like what was the
(10:28):
first year like for you.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Well, it was a rude awakening because the children
bless their hearts were not asreceptive as I was hoping they
would be not as receptive as Iwas hoping they would be.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
What do?
Speaker 1 (10:48):
you want to learn.
That's not every child want tobe in the classroom and so
that's just a whole struggle initself.
But once you get past thebehavior barriers and you make
those relationships, thenthey're eager to learn.
So you have to tell a lot ofstories.
(11:08):
You have to make theminterested first, and then
they're receptive to whateveryou're trying to say to them.
But most definitely it wassomething else.
It really was.
The attitudes were out of thisworld.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
And what age did you start?
What grade level?
Speaker 1 (11:27):
I started with 12th grade, 10th grade and 9th grade,
so I had three grade levelswhen I first came in.
And now when I came in, I hadno experience whatsoever.
I didn't go to school forteaching.
I was going to school to becomewell, I was going to school to
become a reporter.
Going to school to become.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Well, I was going to school to become a reporter.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
I was going for communication and as I was
reporting for the DanvilleRegister and Bee, I was asked I
was covering the education beat.
And I was asked hey, you'recovering the education beat,
would you like to become ateacher?
Because we need an Englishteacher, we need several English
teachers actually, so we'd loveto have you.
I said, oh, I don't think I'minterested in that.
And so they had severalprincipals call me and I said,
(12:08):
well, maybe so, my goodness.
So that was.
That was a real rude awakening,but I've loved it ever since.
But it did take about twomonths to get the hang of it,
you know, to have threedifferent, three different
curriculums going, threedifferent sets of students I
(12:28):
mean students who were literallyokay with having, you know,
wrestling on the floor as I wascoming into class to teach them,
you know.
So they really had to have alot of rules put in place, a lot
of structure put in place, butthankfully we lived through it.
That was my first year 20 yearsago.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Now you are what I would consider a veteran in the
high school education space.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
You've taught all grade levels in high school.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Yes, okay, and that's been mainly your space.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Yes, so 9th and 11th and 12th yes.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Which is a nice little cross section of phases
and development.
20 years in you received, wasit?
Last year you received theTeacher of the Year.
Award.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Last year.
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
So tell me what that felt like.
You finally like a whole20-year career.
You get the Teacher of the YearAward.
What did that feel like for you?
Speaker 1 (13:40):
I was very humbled that my colleagues considered me
worthy to get Teacher of theYear.
I worked very hard to make surethat they have a Black history
program, to make sure that wehave a lot of tutoring for
children, just to help you knowany of them, anything that they
need, and so to think that theywould do that for me, I was just
(14:04):
.
I just couldn't believe it.
I just couldn't believe it.
I was at a loss for words andeven now still I'm at a loss of
words that they would even dothat.
I really am.
That's an award.
I want to say once again, theother teachers voted me for that
.
So the teachers at GeorgeWashington High School.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Right, but your career hasn't always been
sunshine and rainbows, right.
Talk to me about you know.
The first time you know we cansave the names to respect the
guilty and the innocent, thefirst encounter you had with a
bad leader or bad leadershipskills as you're working as a
(14:46):
teacher what was that like?
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Well, I do want to say that within 20 years I have
not had many bad encounters.
That is a definite blessing,but of the encounters that I
have had, they have been majorones.
I've had a couple of newprincipals.
Well, let me rephrase that.
(15:10):
I've had a principal who camein and she was very rude to me
in front of my classroom.
She was demeaning, yelled at me, didn't like the lesson that I
had prepared for my students,and you know what.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Ms Anderson, what you doing Like what?
Speaker 1 (15:35):
No, she came in.
She came in.
She was actually a very new.
She was a new principal fromanother state.
She was making rounds.
She had only been there maybetwo and a half weeks, but the
two and a half weeks that shehad been there it seemed like we
had been in school 20 weeks.
(15:59):
Because of the way she wastalking to the staff and the
teachers.
It was a long two weeks.
And when she came in I can'texactly remember what she said
but she did not like a movieclip that I was showing and the
discussion we were having abouta way that was.
I think I was showing a movieto compare to a book and it was
(16:25):
maybe like a five minute clipand she wasn't.
She didn't appreciate that andshe stood up and told me not to
show that again and the childrenturned and looked at her.
They couldn't believe that shewas saying that because there
was nothing wrong with it and Ijust sort of kept on going.
I did not even acknowledge her,I just kept on going and she
(16:47):
ranted a little bit and she leftand slammed the door.
She slammed the door and wejust kept on going and the
students were very upset but wejust kept on going.
We were very upset.
There was another time when I'vehad an administrator make other
(17:12):
comments to other teachers,calling them stupid in meetings.
So not to me, but calling otherteachers stupid, but calling
other teachers stupid.
I've heard administrators andwhen I say administrators I'm
not just talking aboutprincipals talking to someone in
the school board office, maybetalking negatively about people
(17:38):
in the community or students orother teachers.
I've heard someone speakingvery negatively towards a
student, very negatively, andthose things impact the students
because it doesn't matter, evenif a student is unsure about
wanting to be there, regardlessof what the student has going on
(18:01):
, the student still expects theteacher, the administrator, to
do their job and to lead them.
They still expect, they wantstructure, regardless of
whatever they say.
They're yearning for that,they're yearning for that.
And so you've got to be aspolite and you've got to be as
pleasant and you've got to tryto.
(18:22):
You know, manage and do yourjob the best you can.
And when you're not pleasant,when you are not polite, when
you are just, you know negativeto that child, what kind of
impact can you have?
You don't know what these kidsgo through when they're at home.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
But so I want to.
I want to kind of rewind backto the, the leader who came into
your classroom and startedcriticizing and what have you?
What was, what was the outcomeof that situation between?
Did you go back to her and say,hey, listen, I didn't
appreciate that, or I want tounderstand where you're coming
from, or did you kind of justshut yourself out of it and just
(19:02):
keep going?
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Well, that's a good question.
At that time, I believetensions were so high there was
not going to be a.
That would not have been aviable solution to do that.
No, I sort of let that go.
I did write it up and I didsend um.
Oh, I wrote it, I documented itand I believe I submitted um a
(19:26):
letter to school board membersabout that but wait a minute, I
gotta.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
I gotta do this because I tell everybody all of
the time when it comes to poorbehavior and leaders at work
document everything.
So proud of you for documentingeverything, everything.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
I'm so proud of you for documenting everything.
Documents, documents, and I did.
I did submit to school boardmembers and later on that young
lady she was no longer.
She was let go later on butthere were other issues that
were going on.
So she she only spent aboutmaybe a half a year with us and
she went on her way about, maybea happier with us, and she went
(20:09):
on her way.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
I will say that my professional diagnosis and
experience, regardless of theindustry, is that when a leader,
especially at the executivelevel, comes in hot like that,
where they're criticizing andberating or extremely I'd say,
acutely aware of the negativethings happening in a situation
be it a school or corporatesituation or whatever what
(20:33):
happens is during the interviewprocess, they are hired with the
concept and the intent of likewe're bringing you in to fix
this.
They're brought in with likelisten, these people are not
doing their thing, your team's alittle this, your team's a
little that from some otherperson and they've got the
impression they typically getthe impression that they have to
(20:56):
come in in clean house and noone ever tells y'all that we're
in this workforce of like hey,listen, this person's coming to
whip you into shape, right, andmore often than not, the person
that's doing the appointment hasno relationship or even context
or facts around that.
Often Sometimes, it's true,sometimes it's not with some
(21:30):
mission of setting the house inorder.
That does not take into accountthe need to observe before they
start disrupting things and tolearn before they start
disrupting things.
So if you're a leader listeningand you're a new leader.
I encourage you to get the bookthe First 90 Days.
I encourage you to do listeningtours before you start touching
stuff, because more often thannot you've gotten one side of
seven sides of a story and youdon't know what to change,
(21:54):
because you don't know whatyou're getting ready to blow up
and it sounds like a combinationof that and the leader just not
having a lot of tact and graceand the leader does not have a
lot of tact and grace?
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Yeah, and then also Natalie.
There was another time when nowI got along with another
administrator.
He was a very nice fellow, butas far as his leadership skills
I do question them.
Because there was an issuewhere I felt that another
employee was inappropriate withsome of our female students and
(22:32):
when I, as a mandated reporter,reported that it was ignored.
I reported again and later on,and then it got to the point
where the students were comingto me and talking to me and
complaining about it.
So my conversation with thestudents were ladies, tell your
(22:56):
parents, tell the principal,report it, because it's
(23:33):
inappropriate for a man to be,especially a man who is working
here, to be me talking about.
I shouldn't be telling theseyoung ladies that it's
inappropriate, but it wasinappropriate.
But yet I sat there and Ilistened and I sat there and I
listened and I'm going to tellyou why.
And this and it makes me sortof laugh to myself, because I
(23:54):
believe these three young menfelt that my silence was that my
silence was weakness, but itwasn't.
Was that my silence wasweakness, but it wasn't.
Because I had nothing personalagainst that young man who I
reported as a mandated reporter,nothing personal at all.
I didn't know that young man,personally I didn't.
(24:17):
But as a mandated reporter Ineed to report it.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
But if I had said I'm sorry, please, no, no, no, so
for the finish your to finishyour thought, because I want to
also explain to people whatmandatory reporting is,
especially in the educationspace.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Oh sure, okay, so, but the thing is that I wasn't
going to argue about the man'scase, because then that would
make it seem like I wanted theman to be guilty.
I'm just telling you all thatthis is what's going on.
So I wasn't trying to sit overhere and go and have an argument
(24:56):
with them.
I'm just telling you all thisis what's going on.
So it's your.
It's your at this point, yourresponsibility as the
administrators, as the mansupervisor, to talk to this man
and ask this man what's going on, to talk to the children, to
talk to witnesses.
But that wasn't done at thattime.
(25:18):
They talked to me about okay,you shouldn't be saying this.
And we don't want to hear yousaying this again.
No, I am't be saying this andwe don't want to hear you saying
this again.
No, I am going to say this aslong as these children come to
me and tell me I'm going to saybut I did my part, I reported it
, and a school board and someonefrom the school board office
and the principal and the youngman who I accused.
(25:39):
Thankfully I had a femaleprincipal who was actually in
the room as well, but I justcouldn't believe, and she was a
witness.
I wouldn't have a me withouther, but I just couldn't believe
that this is.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Bullying at its finest.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
It is because you're upset, because I'm saying this
man is inappropriate with theseyoung ladies.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Or at least that has been alleged, right.
So this is what I.
It's been alleged.
It's, I understand.
It's been alleged.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
It's been alleged.
It's been alleged, so I'mtelling you what I see.
I'm telling you what the kidsare saying.
So, if that's the case, do aninvestigation on that.
But I'm saying that this isgoing on, and as long as I've
been in education, really aslong as I've been a watch how
you handle other people'schildren.
You don't know what somebody'schild might say.
So why is it that now, all of asudden, it's almost as free
(26:31):
reign to be so carefree withother people's children,
especially these men?
They're so carefree talking tothese young girls in high school
.
I don't understand it.
Do you not value your job, doyou not?
Speaker 2 (26:48):
So a couple of things One tell everybody.
For the folks who don't know, Iwas going to explain a
dictionary earlier but I did notdo.
But let's talk about, becausesome people have never seen a
dictionary.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
But let's talk to the folks about what mandatory
reporting is, why it's necessaryand how you are accountable for
mandatory reporting as aneducator in your state abused, a
child that might be hurt, if Isee anything that does not seem
to fit the healthy bill of achild walking in the building to
(27:31):
be educated, if I see anythingthat might be awry with this
child, it is my responsibilityto alert administration, for the
school, to alert socialservices and for there to be an
investigation to make sure thatchild is not being abused in
some way or form.
Whether the child comes in withtattered clothes.
(27:52):
The child comes in lookinghungry.
The child comes in and saysthat he or she is in distress
physically.
The child comes in and sayssomeone is touching them, saying
something inappropriately, Imean someone's hitting the poor
child.
It doesn't matter, I've got tosay something.
If I don't say something and itcomes out that the child was in
(28:13):
distress and the child had saidsomething to me or I was aware
of it, then I can go to jail andlose my job.
So that is what a teacher issupposed to do, you know.
So, with that being said, if I'min the conversation and kids
are talking about inappropriatethings being said to them by
(28:35):
someone who is a grown man inthe school, working in the
school, my lord Guess what I'vegot to report it If I see
something that doesn't lookquite right.
And I'm not saying quite righton a oh, I'm going to
investigate, I'm just sayingquite right, as I'm a grown
(28:57):
woman who has a child and Iwouldn't want my child to be
talked to like that or my childto be around something like that
.
This doesn't look quite right.
It's my responsibility toreport that.
We have cameras all over theschool, so if something is going
on and then they go, look atthe camera well, ms Anderson was
in the vicinity.
(29:17):
Why didn't you say somethingabout?
Speaker 2 (29:20):
it.
But, Anne, what do you say topeople who I'm sure I'm sure I'm
a here to this?
I'm sure people are like, yeah,but these girls out here in
high school looking like they intheir late twenties and they
fast and blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah.
What do you say to that?
The over, theover-sexualization of high
school kids.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
And and that is exactly right they um, and they
do look like they're grown women.
They may act like they're grownwomen and they may love any
type of attention that they getfrom a man or a woman at this
point.
They may love it.
But, with that being said,there still has to be a boundary
(30:03):
a healthy boundary between anadult and a child, and in the
real world, while there may notalways be that healthy boundary
between an adult and a child inthe school system, there's
supposed to be, be they'resupposed to be, and so you have
(30:23):
this.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
they basically staged this intervention for you, who
are not the culprit of theaccused thing.
That was said to the childreninappropriately, they staged
this intervention.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
They staged it.
I didn't stage it, that's whatI'm saying.
They staged it.
Yeah, they staged it.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
The first thing that comes to mind is the lyrics from
the Dukes of Hazzard Just thegood old boys.
Boys never made no home, andit's an ode to men taking care
of men.
Yes, this principal, this otherprincipal female in there with
you.
What happens at the end of theconversation?
Because I can appreciate it, Ithink it's a really strategic
move on your part.
It's like you know what I'm notgoing to argue with you.
(31:01):
I said what I said.
Don't ask me again and it's onrecord that I said what I said.
And now it's your liability,not mine.
What happens after that?
Like, how are you treated?
What's like?
Does the other young lady inthe room say, like you know what
she's right?
Like what's, what's?
What's the tea in the room?
The female witness.
She was quiet and listened.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
That's all she did, which I appreciate that I
listened and they felt like theywon.
And were you?
They felt like they won.
That, what, that's what thatthat's.
They felt they won and that'swhat that was their feeling that
(31:52):
they had won.
Now, it wasn't my feeling atall, because I said what I'd
said.
I didn't back down, I wasn'tupset, I wasn wasn't mad.
I said what I said.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
And I think so sidebar, right.
So again, we're talking aboutbad bosses.
When dealing with a bully, oneof the things to master and I
think you're displaying this tous is like maintain your own
composure.
Yeah, because the bully feedson fear and I've said it before,
you can't control what somebodyelse's fears.
Right, if they fear you, theyfear your intellect, they feel
(32:28):
your positioning, they fear thatyou're going to say the truth.
Right, there's all these lawsbecause people, when they
operate in fear, they make verybad decisions and they typically
try to lean on or oppressanother person.
The best thing you can do isone, be strategic.
Two, maintain your composure.
There's no, especially in apower situation, because you
(32:49):
didn't have power in theconversation, it was the person
trying to intimidate you intosome level of submission, right,
right, and being able tomaintain your composure to say
I've said what I said, I don'tneed to repeat myself, let's
move on.
So you leave the room.
They think they got the W.
(33:10):
Then what happens?
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Well, nothing happened for a while.
Things went on as usual.
Coincidentally, I want to saymaybe eight, nine months later,
the young man unfortunately losthis job when his wife found out
(33:46):
that he was trying to talk to achild's mother at the school.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
I know you lied.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
And apparently she put the information on Facebook
and was upset with that onFacebook and was upset with that
.
And then she came up to theschool with, if I'm not mistaken
, a hammer or a bat, maybe bothof those, and he went and he ran
and hid and it was a big messand he and well, all I can say
(34:20):
is, as Aunt Jenny might say, themess hit the fan.
So you know, but you know, Ihate that for these young people
.
I hate that because we'resupposed to be role models and
so, lord knows, I didn't takeany.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
I was, I was.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
I was really hoping that, that they could be True
role models for the children,because the children seemed to
enjoy a lot of children seem toenjoy the fellow when he was
there working and I was hopingthat, you know, he would get
himself together and I washoping that you know I'd be
(35:04):
wrong and that the allegationsthat were being said, you know,
were not going to be correct.
But, needless to say and Ican't tell you what was, what
was, I just know what I saw,what I was hearing, but I had to
report it.
But that is what happened tothe young man and I was very
sorry to hear that.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
I hate it for him and I feel like I just heard like
the ending of a very interestingTyler Perry show with the lady
and the hammer.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
My God, you can't, you can't make this stuff up,
you really can't so, but butthis is.
This is my thing, though, whywe talk about this good old boy
network has still.
We, as women, are fighting tobe heard in the workplace.
What we say seems to never beheard.
(35:53):
It's never heard, and so I'mjust wondering why is it Men who
are professionals, who haveworked hard and are making huge
(36:14):
salaries in the school system,put their, put their jobs on the
line for someone, for someoneelse like that, who actually is
you know what has that type ofbehavior?
Why would you do that?
You know, be professional, beprofessional.
All you have to do is just beprofessional, be professional,
(36:36):
and you don't have to worryabout that.
Have those talks with yoursubordinates.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Yeah, I've found it's funny.
I've had my fair share ofinternal investigations of staff
members and finding out thatthere were relationships that
were inappropriate that muchlike I don't say every man, but
a lot of men will more thanlikely either default to minding
(37:12):
their own business anddefaulting to not being
suspicious and curious and leanon the bias of oh, he's cool, he
wouldn't do that.
There's this interesting Idon't want to say logic, but
just an assumption like nah, hewould never do that, and they
and they move on and you neverknow how you're painted in the
(37:33):
conversation of either well, shewants me, or she's jealous, or
all of the 17 things he probablytold himself to jump right and
so, and and you know you have anearned reputation of being
feisty, right and so I think,tell me so.
(38:03):
I think people find that bothintimidating and maybe even
off-putting, because you, youdon't mince words.
We didn't grow up in houseswhere you minced words.
It was either white or black,yes or no.
You did it or you didn't.
And even if you didn't, youstill might get a spanking for
it because somebody did it.
If we can't find some help forit, right, Ain't none of y'all
going to fess up and everybodygetting a punishment?
And so this, the system of bothtruth and justice that I have
(38:30):
witnessed you live by, is notuniversal.
Not everybody has those values,Not everybody has that muster,
Not everybody has thatcommitment and dedication to
this kind of concepts of likeit's right is right and wrong is
wrong In a lot of places it'svery relative in a lot of places
(38:51):
it's very relative.
So talk to me about you know youhave like a thousand and one
stories, there's just so many togo into.
You do a lot outside of theschool system.
Like you tutor.
You've been in mental health.
Like, talk to me about thethings that you've seen from a
(39:11):
mental health perspective indealing with being an educator
and what challenges you see withteachers and the things that
they face.
I see a lot of burnout.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
I see teachers that do not know how to say no.
I see teachers that do not knowhow to say no.
They take on too manycommitments and it's not because
they don't have the ability tocontrol their schedule.
It's because they just havethat love, they have that
(39:45):
passion.
I myself have the same problem.
You know, I want to do athousand things and my body and
my time unfortunately can't takecare of all these things.
But a lot of teachers they windup not being able to do their
meditation, their mindfulnessexercises, which is what they
(40:07):
definitely need to do.
Teachers need to be able to,please, use your counseling
services.
You need a counselor.
You need to be able to vent andtalk to someone.
Don't go home and vent.
No, don't go home and vent,because your loved ones will be
tired of hearing it.
You need to go to someone.
(40:29):
I'm sure you have benefits.
Go to a counselor, a medicaltrained counselor, and let them
tell you and they'll probablytell you the same thing.
They'll probably tell you deepbreathing exercises.
They'll tell you, you know,keep a journal.
They'll tell you, thinkpositive thoughts.
They'll tell you to sing.
They'll tell you to have, youknow, a special day for yourself
(40:49):
.
You know, take 15 minutes eachday, maybe listen to a certain
song, maybe take a long bubblebath.
You've got to have some type ofrelaxation time for yourself and
of course you know this stuff,but sometimes it takes somebody
else to tell you that and you'vegot to be able to also talk to
somebody outside of yourhousehold.
(41:10):
You've got to.
So please take care of yourself, because it's terrible to be
burned out and if you are burnedout, you're not going to be
able to do your job.
You're going to wind upresenting your job and your
students are going to.
They're going to understandthat that enthusiasm that you
had in your eyes when you walkedinto that classroom the first
day is going to be gone by weeksix, by week six, not week 26.
(41:36):
By week six.
So please take care of yourselfand understand that you are
just as important as thestudents.
You're just as important asyour children, as your husband,
as your mother, as anybody else,your neighbors you're taking
care of, as your dogs.
You are important, so treatyourself accordingly as well.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
What about the school system, Ann?
Because you said all.
Really, I agree with you on athousand fronts.
But what is it about thecurrent environment in the
education space that leads tosome of this burnout, that leads
to people being asked over andover again to extend beyond
what's on the job description orwhat can be fit into their work
hours?
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Well, first of all, there's so much that we have to
do in a short amount of timethat you feel like you'll never
get it done.
And so you're taking so muchwork home with you.
I mean, the work isoverpowering.
So it's not just teaching theclasses, it's the lesson
planning, it's the preparationfor the classes, it's all the
(42:47):
other mentoring that you have todo, it's all the other
assignments that they plan foryou to do, it's when you're
voluntold to take on committeesand voluntold for other jobs.
I mean there's so many thingsbecause pretty much with our
contract, you're told that youare owned from 8 o'clock to 3.30
(43:07):
.
And so you're pretty muchexpected to do what they told
you to do.
You pretty much are expected.
And then a lot of times youfeel like if you complain about
a lot of stuff, you might Idon't know, you might be
retaliated against.
There is that air ofretaliation.
(43:31):
There really is.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
Tell me about experience that you've witnessed
this retaliation.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
Maybe not you, but I've witnessed people maybe not
being promoted to different jobsbecause they might complain
about different things.
They felt that their rightswere being violated.
I have, wow, I mean it's scary.
(44:00):
It's scary when you are, whenyou have worked so hard and went
to school for so long to youknow, to be in a profession and
you feel that that can bejeopardized by you saying no to
something, by you asking not todo something, by you asking
(44:20):
maybe for help with something.
That is that is terrifying, byyou saying that you don't think
that something is correct.
I myself, I was afraid that Iwas going to be and I was going
to face that.
When about maybe I want to sayit might have been February we
(44:42):
had an issue with our taxwithholding.
It was a tax withholdingscandal at Danville Public
Schools where somehow I don'tknow how, but Danville Public
Schools was not able to honormost of the employees on federal
W-4s, and so we didn't.
(45:03):
Most of the employees didn'tfind that out until we got our
W-2s and we found out hold for asecond, these look a little
different.
We started getting our taxesdone and we're wait a minute.
Why do we owe so much moneyback?
Hold on, this is not right.
And so, when this startedcoming out, a lot of people felt
like we were being victimized,because we were told well, you
(45:29):
all weren't checking your paystubs or you all must not have
done your W-4s correctly, andthat was.
And a lot of people were soupset, but people were afraid to
say something because you wereafraid of what was going to come
from saying something.
Well, I went to the schoolboard and I said something my
three-minute speech on how Lordhave mercy, my three minutes.
(45:54):
Odessa prepared you.
Well, exactly three minutesthey give you on how true that
it wasn't our fault and how wewere victimized.
And the very children?
The very children, becausewe're taking care of low income
children in Danville, virginia,yet you're tearing the houses,
(46:18):
the households of the verychildren, up, because we're the
parents of the children who goto your schools, and so our
households are going tofinancially suffer because of
the mistake that has been made.
So, yes, while we did get thatmoney during the year, we were
not aware of that.
We're not accountants.
(46:40):
And to tell me that I shouldhave been looking at my check
stub I'm not an accountant butI've been working for well over
32 years.
I have never had to look atMcDonald's, I never had to check
with Family Dollar.
I've been with this schoolsystem for almost 20 years at
that time and I never had aproblem.
(47:00):
Now it's a problem.
Now I've got to check it, whichI'm saying.
It's good to check stuff, butonce again, I didn't know.
I would not have known if theywere taking the correct amount.
We were getting differentraises and things, so it was
very hard for us to understandthat.
Apparently, it was hard becausethey didn't get it right.
Needless to say, I was very, Iwas very worried that I was
(47:24):
going to face some backlash fromthat, and I was thankful that I
had the DEA, the DanvilleEducators Association, behind me
, because I was talking onbehalf of my peers and my you
know fellow associates when Imade that statement.
Yet yet, a month, not even amonth after that happened, not
(47:58):
even a month after that happened, I was assaulted by an employee
in the hallways at GeorgeWashington High School, and I
want to get into all of it.
But the young man assaulted me.
He grabbed me and I thought I'dhandled it.
(48:19):
I told him to leave me aloneand he left me.
He did leave me alone.
So I thought I'd a littlemeltdown, a little PTSD, because
I am a survivor of domesticviolence.
(48:41):
It triggered something in me.
So it triggered something in methat man had never done
anything to me before in thepast no, but another man had.
So, with that being the case,that triggered my feelings and I
was having a very hard timegoing to work and so I had to
write that up and I felt I wastreated as a victim again
(49:02):
because, well, why are you justnow doing this, you know, and it
took a long, you know, and Icouldn't.
I could tell all the details,but I couldn't tell you today,
you know, and I couldn't.
I could tell him all thedetails, but I couldn't tell you
the day.
It's like my mind had, my mindhad blocked a lot of stuff out.
Yet my students remembered,because the young man went into
the classroom after me, after me, didn't realize I had class,
(49:23):
didn't realize I had class.
So he was pursuing you into theclassroom.
He pursued me into theclassroom after I broke away
from him.
He did moved me into theclassroom after I broke away
from him.
He did, but, needless to say, Iwas told they couldn't find the
footage.
All those cameras, theycouldn't find the footage.
They did a short investigation,it was over and I said well,
(49:50):
it's over just like that.
Yeah, well now, mind you, theyoung man didn't speak to me
after I didn't speak to him, butstill, I'm having a hard time,
even working in the building.
I'm having a hard time.
So they told me I was welcometo leave and go to another
(50:14):
school if I needed to.
What about my son?
My son's going to be a seniorand he knows this man assaulted
me.
I'd like to be with my son.
Oh, he'd go to another schooltoo.
Wow, so I've been here 20 years.
So I went into spring, springbreak, after I've given 20 years
(50:36):
to the school system, beingtold, well, I could just, you
know, go wherever I want to.
If that's the case, I startednot to even sign my contract.
But but so I prayed, and thisis where you have to decide what
(50:57):
is best for you.
What?
Because I was not going to comeback, but I had to talk with my
family, my son, my daughterswhat's best for our family, what
was best for me for the otherchildren that I teach?
(51:18):
And I got myself together.
I said hold on for a minute.
Let me not forget who I am andwhat my rights are.
Let me sit up a little bit so Ican talk to you about this.
Let me not forget who I am andget myself together.
What my rights are, know whatyour rights are, seek legal
(51:44):
counsel, research, investigateso I found out what research
investigate.
So I found out what my rightswere.
Don't wait for your employer totell you what your rights are.
You see, I had a momentary lapseand we all go have those
(52:04):
sometimes because I was notstrong at that moment.
For about a good couple ofweeks I wasn't strong.
I wasn't strong at all, but youknow what I got myself right.
Of weeks I wasn't strong.
I wasn't strong at all, but youknow what I got myself right.
On back, I got myself togetherand started thinking thank you,
lord, I sure did, got myselfright together and got my
research done and I found my andfound, got my legal rights in
(52:28):
and what I was able to do.
And we had another and therewound up being another
investigation and they were ableto move the young man to
another school when I wouldn'thave to look at him.
Now I want to, for the record,say I wasn't going to put
(52:48):
anybody in jail.
I want the man to keep hishands off me and stay away from
me, and that's what I wanted andthat's what we got.
Yeah, but now, if need be, Iknow what my rights were.
Speaker 2 (53:09):
One.
I want to say thank you forbeing vulnerable and sharing
your.
You know it's a.
It's a very meaningful, deep,painful experience and we don't
we don't typically share, wedon't typically hear people
willing to share that side ofwhat happens, the darker side of
(53:31):
not being supported, the darkerside of what happens in these
very close proximity spaces, thedarker side of being triggered
by a previous event, like all ofthat, is so both vulnerable and
I know someone will beencouraged by the fact that you
(53:56):
found yourself.
Let me go.
Speaker 1 (54:00):
I hope so, I pray that, because you know if I can
help somebody, if I can helpsomebody, then my living has not
been in vain.
Speaker 2 (54:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:11):
It's not been in vain .
Speaker 2 (54:13):
And I think that's one of a really great takeaway
of like don't forget who you are, don't forget who you are,
don't forget what your rightsare.
And if you don't know what yourrights are, go find out.
And it's best to know thembefore you get in the situation.
But even if you can't know inthat moment, going to find it
afterwards is, I think, isreally, really.
(54:34):
I guess the question I have foryou now, anne, is how do how do
you choose to start back againin the fall?
Like what?
What conscious choice are youmaking?
Knowing that you weren'tsupported, knowing that you had
to create accountability whereit didn't exist?
Like, if I think of like all ofthe like my boss sucks.
(54:57):
Situations like this for me islike deep.
This is like.
This isn't just likeinterpersonal crisis.
This is I was physicallyassaulted, I had every right to
press charges, have a trial,whatever that was right, and
knowing that you didn't have thesupport, knowing that you were
(55:18):
in the right, knowing that thereis a shadow of even
inappropriateness between thecoincidence of like y'all ain't
do my paycheck right to now,y'all not gonna look at my
situation right likecoincidental.
I ain't gonna say it's causality, but it is a big coincidence,
right, right.
(55:38):
How do you choose now?
What are you choosing this fall?
What are you choosing as youenter into this, next year?
What are you choosing and howyou show up based on all of that
?
Because a lot of people I knowas women, some of us, can't get
over stuff like that.
Some of us are like you knowwhat.
We just weigh down.
(55:59):
We get to the point where wefeel so low or so selfless and
all of the things.
How are you choosingdifferently?
Speaker 1 (56:06):
Triumph, triumph.
I'm walking in like a queen, doyou hear me?
Because I have battled.
I have battled.
I feel like I've come throughthe battle and my armor is
strong.
I'm thankful.
I am so thankful and I feelstronger than ever.
(56:28):
And sometimes I guess you haveto go through things to to
better appreciate things and Iappreciate myself.
I appreciate myself so muchmore now I do.
I have never been so much moreproud of myself as a strong
(56:54):
woman.
I never have.
I never have, because I can'tbelieve, because I'm going to be
honest with you, first of all,going through domestic violence
and going through and dealingwith that and then thinking
you've healed, then to betriggered again and then to
still go and as a single parent,having to feel like I'm
(57:19):
fighting my employer, mylivelihood, and knowing I'm
right oh, and I'm not saying Iwant to have to be in a struggle
by any means, I don't but toknow that I feel that God was on
my side because I had I hadright was on my side and I was
going to fight tooth and nail.
Speaker 2 (57:38):
Look, it's like that and I wasn't asking for a lot.
Speaker 1 (57:40):
How can you?
I wasn't even asking for a lot.
Just move the young man toanother location, move him to
another location and thank God,he's gone Another location.
And you know what?
Now he's their liability.
He's their liability.
You've been told what he did.
Speaker 2 (57:59):
He's their liability now, which is kind of a theme if
you think about it.
Wow, think about that.
Speaker 1 (58:09):
Wow, Wow.
Can you imagine that?
Can you imagine that?
Wow.
So what I want, what I want totake away, is know your rights,
Everything that you read andeverything that they expect you
to do.
Make sure you read everything.
Make sure you everything youhave to sign, Make sure you read
(58:30):
everything.
Make sure you, well, everythingyou have to sign, make sure you
read it.
Go on there and do your job, butdo what you can, but make sure
that you understand yourclassroom culture and love your
kids.
Do it for your passion oftaking care of these kids,
because you can't get everythingdone.
There's no way in the worldthat everything is going to be
done.
No way in the world.
(58:50):
Don't let even it doesn'tbother me.
I'll shake my head and say,okay, I'll do the best I can.
When 345 comes, hey, it is whatit is, I've done the best I
could do.
But you know what?
I'm going to make sure thesekids have what they need.
And if it's not in theircurriculum A, these are seniors
(59:13):
trying to graduate.
They still need to get acollege application done.
They have to get a scholarshipdone.
We're going to get some stuffdone, so we're going to try to
find some time for that.
So you know what?
A we'll do the best we can.
The world is not going to end.
Speaker 2 (59:28):
I love it.
I love it, the world is notgoing to end.
Speaker 1 (59:30):
It's not going to end .
I love it.
The world is not going to end.
Go ahead.
You want to finish?
Oh, I'm sorry, but I also wantto add but the way they hold,
the way our employers try tohold us accountable for
(59:50):
professionalism, hold themaccountable too, and for every,
oh my goodness, for everyprocedure that they say they're
going to follow, for everypolicy they're going to work on.
Oh yeah, make sure that whenyou have an issue, they follow
that doggone policy as well,that procedure.
Make sure you understand thattoo.
Read the fine print.
Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
I fully agree with you.
I fully agree with you and Itell people all the time go find
your handbook, go find yourpolicies and procedures.
And in the age of AI, I don'tknow, it's not a good answer,
it's not an acceptable answer,not when you can put the PDF
into your chat of choice, right,and then ask it based on the
situation.
(01:00:28):
What can I not do with theinformation?
Don't be lazy.
Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
I do want, oh if I can, natalie, also make sure
that you find your unionrepresentative and make sure
that you befriend your unionrepresentative, know your
resources and do not be afraid,when you have an issue, to take
(01:00:58):
your union representative withyou to your human resource
meeting with your supervisorsand if there's a problem, then
they have the problem.
That's your right.
That is your right.
It's just amazing how, howadministration will sometimes
you know schedule meetings foryou know and changing meetings
(01:01:27):
at the last minute.
It's really amazing how they dothat.
But I'm going to tell you all,so many employees are afraid to
reach out to their unionrepresentatives, their DEA
representatives, or the DEA ortheir NEA, it doesn't matter but
they're afraid because they'reafraid that they're going to get
(01:01:47):
in trouble with thesuperintendent or the school
board members who cares?
That's your right to havesomeone there and when you're in
the middle of a crisis, youneed somebody with a level head
to take notes for you, with alevel head, to be your witness,
because they might be the oneswho are going to have your back
and have a lawyer for you.
So please make sure you havesomebody there with you.
(01:02:12):
Please make sure, because whenyou're in a crisis, your
employer doesn't have your back.
Just being honest with you haveyour own back, please do.
I beg you all to have that.
Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
So it's interesting, like the HR person in me is like
, but you don't need the union,and then, like the recovering
non-HR person is like, get yourunion.
My dad, having been the shopsteward at Teamsters, local 830,
it's important to have anadvocate when you can't advocate
for whatever that looks likeRight, especially someone who
(01:02:46):
knows the system, becauseoftentimes we work inside a
system and because you're asubset of the greater system,
you don't know the entire system.
You know your classroom, youmight know some of the other
ancillary support systems aroundyou, but you don't know the
overarching system.
That's all the more reason tophone a friend, to call in a
(01:03:06):
resource to make sure you havemore than you do at the table
when you're having theconversation, because it's
unfortunate to say, but youcan't assume that the other
party is going to operate ingood faith.
They're going to operate intheir best interest and with
that in mind, it's important tohave someone to help level the
(01:03:27):
playing field of that interest.
Speaker 1 (01:03:28):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:03:31):
So, we're a little bit out of time, but I do want
to have this conversationbecause I've had it with
everyone about parents.
We've talked about theadministration, we talked about
kind of your, your, your nextlevel leader, talk to me about
parents being the bad boss Like.
What situations have you hadwhere you're like man?
I wish these parents would dodifferent and be different,
because it would make my jobeasier well, I've never had a
(01:03:57):
problem.
Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
Parents tell you the truth um, they've always been
supportive.
I've never had a problem.
Parents have always beensupportive how?
Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
how is being educated by Ms Anderson, different than
a lot of other teachers thatyou've been around?
Because I think, listening Iknow some of your stories,
knowing some of the things thatyou say to kids, I was like you
know, but it works for you itworks.
Speaker 1 (01:04:29):
Well, I tell them when they come into my classroom
, they are my children, they'remy children and I would not tell
them anything that I wouldn'ttell my own children.
And I have 35 year old childrenrunning around this town hey
(01:04:51):
how you doing, hey how you doing.
They'll stop and hug me.
I'm seeing the kids andeverything, but when they are my
children in the classroom,they're my children forever.
And so they know that when Iargue with them, sometimes I
argue with them.
You know I lay them out.
Sometimes you know we go backand forth a little bit, but they
know that I do that with love.
I'm the same every day.
(01:05:13):
I'm the same, the same.
They know I'm going to say it.
They know I'm going to say I'mconsistent.
That's the word.
I am consistent.
Speaker 2 (01:05:23):
And you have no problem embarrassing people if
you meet them.
Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
No problem at all.
But look, they give it to metoo now, with love.
They give it to me too now we,you know, we, we back and forth.
Sometimes we are back and fortha little, a little bit now I
love that.
I do enjoy, I really enjoyhaving that relationship with
them.
I really do with them.
Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
I really do.
What, as you, you know, 20 plusyears in let's just assume
you're going to, you know,retire in another 20 years,
whatever the number is, I knowit's probably more like 10, but
when you retire, what's onething you want people, your
students, your peers, what's thething you want them to say
about you and what they'velearned about you, learned from
you, as an educator.
Speaker 1 (01:06:17):
That I love each and every one of my students, love
each and every one of them.
They know it, they do, they do.
Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
Any final thoughts, Ann, as we wrap up our session
today.
Speaker 1 (01:06:34):
Well, I just want to thank you very much for having
me and for allowing me tohopefully inspire these new
teachers coming in.
And please, new teachers,please do not get tired of the
bureaucracy.
Just go in, you know.
Just remember that you have apassion for teaching.
Just do what you can do.
(01:06:54):
You are not a superhero.
Do what you can do, take careof yourself in all aspects your
mental health, your health andknow your legal rights at all
times and speak up for yourselfpolitely.
Speak up for yourself politely.
Speaker 2 (01:07:17):
Thanks, Sam.
Thanks so much for your time.
I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
Thank you so much, Natalie.
Speaker 2 (01:07:22):
Today's episode is brought to you by Natalie Parker
Enterprises, where we shape thefuture and unlock potential by
helping organizations and peoplework together to do good work.
Find out more atTheNatalieParkercom, or, if
you'd like to be a sponsor,email us at info at
TheNatalieParkercom.
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