June 10, 2025 • 47 mins
What happens when a mother's fierce love for her children collides with the unrelenting grip of alcoholism? In this raw and moving conversation, Jenny breaks her silence to share a 16-year journey of motherhood in recovery that will resonate with anyone who has ever struggled to be present for those who need them most.
With honesty, Jenny takes us back to the toughest days of battling a disease she knew nothing about while raising a one-year-old and three-year-old, praying each morning not to drink, only to surrender by afternoon. "The only thing more powerful than a mother's love is alcoholism," she reflects after hearing someone speak those words, which resonated so deeply in her own heart at the time.
After exhausting every alternative—from hypnosis and psychiatry to vitamin regimens—Jenny found her way to the solution she'd been most resistant to: a 12-step program that offered not just sobriety but a complete transformation. The results speak volumes: a 26-year marriage, a son who is thriving at university, and a beautiful daughter who trusts her mother completely with her questions about alcohol.
Perhaps most powerful is Jenny's message to mothers currently struggling: what your children truly need isn't your physical presence at all costs, but "a sober, healthy, emotionally stable mother." The community of women she found became family, holding her babies during meetings and teaching her how to navigate motherhood without alcohol. Today, she's gone from being the one who needed constant help to being a pillar of strength for others.
Whether you're personally touched by addiction or simply interested in stories of profound human transformation, Jenny's journey offers hope that even our most overwhelming challenges can become the foundation for our most meaningful contributions. Listen now and witness how recovery doesn't just save lives—it changes family legacies for generations to come.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi and welcome to another episode of the Sober
Living Stories podcast.
Meet Jenny.
She's a dedicated mom of two,has been married for 26 years
and is also a powerful exampleof living an alcohol-free
lifestyle.
Her commitment to a positivechange that she made 16 years
ago has not only transformed herown life, but has made a
(00:20):
significant impact on hercommunity.
Jenny generously dedicates hertime and support to uplift other
women seeking success in thealcohol-free space.
She's going to join us todayand share a part of her personal
story for the very first time,and she's going to talk about
what it's like to be sober as amom and how she got that way.
(00:40):
So she's going to take us allthe way back and bring us up to
her present day, giving usinsights along the way.
Welcome to the show, jenny.
I'm so happy to have you here.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Thank you, jessica, it's good to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
One thing I did not mention is Jenny and I have been
best friends, almost closing inon 20 years now, and it took
her about a year to come on andI was surprised one day to open
my inbox and see her there.
Sharing your story is a verypersonal thing to do and it's
also courageous because you kindof allow yourself to be
(01:13):
vulnerable.
But then it's very powerful fornot only the person telling
their story but for the peoplethat hear it.
So I'm so glad you're here.
Just start at the verybeginning and just take us to
your present day.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
All right, you know you had asked me what I kind of
wanted to focus on and I was ata.
I heard some speakers a coupleof weekends ago and one of the
speakers said she said the onlything more powerful than a
mother's love is alcoholism.
And that struck me sopowerfully because I can
remember not understandingalcoholism at all, trying to not
(01:51):
drink every day and drinkingevery day, and at the time I had
a one-year-old and athree-year-old and I wanted
nothing more than to be the bestmother I could possibly be for
these children and I would failevery day.
Once I came in and I was taughtwhat alcoholism is and that it
contains a physical allergy, Iunderstood where I was at that
(02:14):
time.
But back then, 18 years ago, Iwould wake up every morning and
the thought would come to myhead I would pray to a God who I
did not understand, didn'tbelieve in at the time, and I
would just say please don't letme drink today.
And I would hear a voice thatwould say well, you need to
throw away the vodka that you'vegot hidden in the underwear
drawer.
(02:34):
And then I would reply no,because I just need a little bit
.
And every morning I would wakeup and I would feel so insane.
In my head Nothing felt clear,everything was so erratic.
And I would take a drink ofthat vodka and everything would
just get clear and calm.
My world seemed okay and Iwould think, how am I supposed
(02:55):
to give this up if it's the onlything that makes me feel sane?
And that's what I believed?
And then if it would havelasted like that for the whole
day, that would have been great.
But what I didn't realize, ofcourse, is once I put the
alcohol into my system, thephysical allergy kicked off and
I had no choice for that entireday and I would try to fight it.
(03:16):
The craving and the physicalallergy was just so strong in me
that I would lose the battleevery day and I would feel like
such a pathetic mother humanbeing.
You know, I can.
I often, when I share my story,I talk about, you know, trying
to read my kids' bedtime storiesand I couldn't keep my eyes
(03:36):
open because you know I wasgoing to pass out and I would
think to myself how am I goingto keep doing this?
And you know, I think how am Igoing to help them with their
algebra homework, their geometryhomework when they're older.
Because I didn't.
I didn't know that there was asolution out there.
I just thought that I had totry to figure out how to manage
being a drunk mom, because I hadtried to stop drinking so many
(03:59):
times before this that I wasabsolutely hopeless and I
thought this was just my lot forlife.
I've got to figure out how tomanage it and it was a miserable
way to live.
And I don't know how manypsychologists, psychiatrists
before this point some of them,had suggested a 12-step program,
(04:21):
like probably at least 10 yearsearlier.
Um, it suggests a stronglysuggested a 12 step program.
And I was like, absolutely not.
And at the time I was like youknow, that's not my problem, if
we could figure out all myproblems, then I wouldn't drink
that much.
And you know he was like that'snot how it works.
But that's what I believed.
(04:42):
And you know I always say thatthe 12, the 12 step program, was
the last door on the block forme.
I wanted anything but that.
I knew I was an alcoholic, Iknew I couldn't stop drinking,
but please, let there besomething other than than that.
And I had tried, um, you know,different.
I went to psychiatrists thatput me on medications, went to
(05:12):
multiple psychologists who flewto Boston to be hypnotized and I
tried this humongous vitaminprogram that I had completely
forgotten about until I keptgetting these ads for the
vitamin program and I'm like, ohyeah, my poor sister had bought
me like this big kit for thevitamins to try to, you know,
try to help me.
And I tried over exercising.
I mean I'd like every anythingpossible to stop drinking.
I tried to do and probably youknow the five years leading up
(05:33):
and you know when.
I remember when, when I foundout I was pregnant with my son,
I mean I was incredibly gratefulthat I was able to stop
drinking for both of mypregnancies.
But what I believe I know todayis that my alcoholism had not
progressed to the point thatthat was not, would not be
(05:54):
possible.
I kind of believe if there wasa third pregnancy before
sobriety, it probably would nothave gone that way, because each
time I picked up after mychildren were born, the
progression was significant.
And like for the firstpregnancy, you know, I was put
it down and I was okay, and forthe second pregnancy, I thought
(06:16):
about it throughout the wholepregnancy when do I get to drink
again?
When do I get to drink again?
And my husband, you know, when,I remember after, after, when I
got I think it was after thebirth of my son, and you know
and he was like you know well,we know you can stop.
So just, you know, just don'tdrink the hard stuff, just stick
to wine.
And I was like that's a greatidea.
(06:37):
You know, we were both somisunderstanding of what was
going on.
And then, after the second time, you know, he would literally
beg me not to drink and justlike it was my greatest desire,
it was his too.
He wanted to hold his familytogether and he would have done
anything to hold his familytogether.
Neither of us understood thedisease of alcoholism, so we
(07:00):
were trying to fight it withoutgoing to the solution.
And you know, it was absolutelychaotic.
And I can remember, like when Ihad about a year of sobriety
and one of our friends who hadcome in about the same time and
she's like I just can't evenimagine getting sober with
children.
You know, getting sober takesup all my time.
How could you possibly do itwith children?
(07:20):
And my first thought was Ican't imagine doing it without
children, because children don'tkeep me sober.
But they definitely gave me ahuge reason why I wanted to be a
sober woman.
Like I said, that was mybiggest desire every morning was
just to be the best mom I couldbe.
And so when I've worked withsome women to try to help with
(07:45):
their sobriety journey ifthey're actively drinking and
the topic comes up of going to adetox or going to rehab, I want
to say 100% of them feel Ican't leave my children.
I know today is that's such atiny blip in the rest of our
lives that it is so tremendouslyworth it, like I.
(08:10):
You know, in hindsight, if Icould have done that, that would
have been fantastic, but youknow I can't leave my kids.
They need me.
The reality is they did notneed that mom.
You know some people will refuseto say I was an abusive mother.
The way I was drinking isabsolutely abusive and the
things you know I would put themin their car seats and drive
(08:31):
with them after I had beendrinking.
That is absolutely abuse andyou and I had talked about
before.
You know if a babysitter wasdoing the things you know that I
would, there's no way I wouldlet her in my house and I was,
you know the mom trying my best,but that's not an that's no
excuse.
And, um, and you know todaythat I know the solution,
(08:52):
there's absolutely no excuse.
You know I can give myself somegrace for the fact that I
didn't understand the diseaseand know the solution, but, um,
you know that I would doanything to protect my kids and
at that time in my life I was doanything to protect my kids and
at that time in my life I wasprobably the biggest danger to
them.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Wow, yeah, you talked about so many things, so let's
pause here for a second and justgo back, because this is really
honestly, it's incredible thatyou came on today and talked
about this subject in particularBecause just this morning I was
scrolling through and I saw anacquaintance of ours Her name is
Ashley and she posted somethingabout her son and I reached out
(09:32):
to her because it just hit mein my heart and I thought I
asked her.
I said I don't know if youspeak out loud about your
recovery, but I would love tohave you on because one of the
best listened to and mostpopular episodes on this podcast
was one that had family in thetitle and to speak about being a
mom and the gratitude and theyou know everything that comes
(09:54):
with that when you're insobriety or living alcohol free
or made a positive change.
So I just reached out to herand I didn't know what you were
going to talk about, but when,before we hit record, you said
I'd like you know, I'd like togo over a couple of things here,
so I'm so glad for that.
You talked about alcoholism asa disease and I can relate to
that because I I was the same inthat I thought every drink I
(10:17):
was putting into me was helpingme too.
You know, I'll stop doing thiswhen I'm not so sad.
I'll stop doing this when I'mnot.
So fill in the blank and notunderstanding the disease of
alcoholism.
I didn't understand that.
That was the one thing, becauseI had already crossed over.
That was keeping me sick.
So, understanding what thedisease is A and then B you had
(10:40):
talked about.
Well, I've known you for a long, for a very long time and what
you just spoke about just waslike because I don't, I mean, I
see you as just health andwellness and beauty and grace
and faith filled and incrediblemom and so.
But you know, to talk about howit was then and having a better
(11:06):
understanding of the diseaseand stuff, it's just, it's just
unbelievable because there's somany people that don't
understand like, yes, if you'rein the throes of alcoholism,
that this is a disease and itdoes need a solution, and it's
usually a spiritual solution,because we've tried all the
other ones for whatever reason,we don't have to understand it,
but they didn't give us thelongstanding sobriety we were
(11:28):
looking for.
That would be required to have acomplete life change as a mom,
a wife, a business professionalor a community member right.
So what have you seen in yourhome change since you've started
this way so many years ago?
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Well, bless my son.
My son is 22 now and when Ifully got sober he was five,
yeah, five.
He was five years old, he wasin kindergarten and he was
failing kindergarten Anythingwith the kids.
It just breaks my heart tothink about.
But this poor little guy, hewas so full of anxiety and he
(12:05):
had symptoms of OCD.
He was in kindergarten justconstantly washing his hands,
constantly washing his hands,and I can remember being in the
principal's office discussingthis and I knew that it was
because of his home life, but Ifelt like I couldn't share that
with them.
So I knew what the problem was,but I sure wasn't going to
share that with them.
But so how are we going to fixthis problem without actually
(12:27):
discussing what the real problemwas?
So fast forward to now, youknow he's living on his own with
some roommates in an apartment,going to University of Central
Florida, getting his bachelor'sin computer science, and he's
just thriving and it was, youknow, amazing, quite a process
between kindergarten to there,of him healing alongside of me.
(12:49):
You know we went through theOCD and the anxiety and the
depression and I'm, you know,extraordinarily grateful that I
got the help and the confidenceto be able to, by this time,
tell people what the realproblem was.
When I would take him topsychologists and doctors, I
would, you know, flat out, saylook, I'm an alcoholic, I'm a
(13:10):
recovered alcoholic.
But you know, here's part ofwhy we are here and why this is
happening so that they didn'thave to guess and they didn't
come up with the wrong reasonsand so that he was able to get
the help he needed.
And you know, fast forward towhen he was in middle school,
like I didn't share with them,you know that I was an alcoholic
(13:34):
and what was going on until hewas in middle school, I knew the
conversation was going to haveto happen and I didn't know when
it was going to happen and whatyou know.
And he came home and he's likeyou know, we're learning about
alcoholism in school and he justhad all these questions and I
think in the back of his mind heknew you know, looking back on
it now, just the way he wasasking me questions about
alcoholism and I just got theoverwhelming feeling that this
(13:57):
is it, I have to tell him.
And I told him and he burst outin tears and his he said to me
you were the person I looked upto most in this world.
Now I don't want to be anythinglike you, and I mean like my
heart just about stopped.
And then by the end of theconversation he said you know,
if you could overcome that, thenI know I can overcome anything.
(14:25):
Today it's a very openconversation in our home because
my friends taught me that Ineed to put my program first and
my 12-step program first.
They know when I'm going tomeetings and doing these things
and working with other women,how vitally important it is to
my life and they support it.
And there are times when mydaughter will be like do you
really have to go to another one?
And she's helped me to kind ofrelax a little bit, I guess.
(14:47):
One time I was visiting her inOrlando and I'm like I got to go
, I've got to get back, I've gotto get back, and she's like do
you really?
I don't know.
I think I can stay here withyou and that's.
You know the whole balance.
That's challenging butnecessary, and for me it's
continuing to learn and grow andevolve and it just it changes
(15:07):
constantly.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Yeah, and that's so important.
I think there's so many momsout there who either struggle
with you know this particulareither getting sober or staying
that way, and then they have todeal with which you didn't have
to, but custody and differentthings having their children
taken away.
You can't think of anythingworse, you know.
And so how important it is tomake that change, and to make it
(15:33):
a permanent change, not for itto fluctuate, but I know that it
is difficult in the beginning,as we get sober, to understand
what it is and to stay that way.
So could you talk a little bitabout your beginning of that
walk and what happened and somethings that you did or maybe
people could avoid and how yousucceeded in staying, because I
(15:57):
think that's difficult forpeople.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think it's very common formothers to think I can't be away
from my child.
My child needs me and what Ilearned is what my child needs
is a sober, healthy, emotionallystable mother, and early on.
I'm very fortunate that myhusband I had a husband who was
(16:20):
supportive and we would get thekids to sleep by like 7 pm and
then I would hit the 8 pmmeeting.
And I was also fortunate Icould go during the day and I
would hit the noon meeting.
My friends taught me again thatonce my husband understood the
importance, he was going to stepon board to help me.
(16:41):
And I know that's noteverybody's situation but, like
I said, I'm very grateful thatit was mine, that he was helpful
.
There was a lot of resentmentbut we walked through it.
It wasn't an easy thing to do.
You know, at one point he'slike you know, is this our life?
Now?
We're just going to be passingoff the children while you run
off to meetings, and I was, youknow, honestly, like I don't
know.
But this is what our life hasto be at this moment and I do
(17:04):
try to encourage new women inthat that it's going to be a lot
, especially the first year, butthen it can become almost
effortless and it just becomes apart of your every day, your
day to day.
You know, I would, once I wasable to start working again, and
you know it would be likethroughout the school year my
(17:25):
meetings and things would looklike this, and then summer would
happen and I would have toswitch it all up.
That would no longer work.
I think one of the things thatI see today is the women who get
sober and then they have kids.
A lot of times they think, oh,I've got to pour it all into the
children, which of course we do.
But we're not going to be anygood to anybody if we're not
(17:47):
sober.
And I know for me that when I'mdoing the things I need to do,
I have so much more patience andtolerance and love, even, you
know, for the kids, you know,but having toddlers is not easy
at all.
Cut back on everything I'mdoing spiritually, I'm just
making everything else so muchharder.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah, you know I well this is a good segue into
exactly this is that what wefind out is it's not really
about the drink or alcoholitself, it's about kind of what
it does to us.
And I think what livingalcohol-free does is it puts us
back on some emotional planewhere we can actively be
(18:25):
wonderful moms and committedwives and just members of
society again, because it bringsus that emotional stability.
And so how did you see thathappen in your life?
Going from where you came fromto removing the alcohol but then
learning how to liveemotionally stable and
well-rounded and balanced?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Absolutely.
That was by surrounding myselfwith women who'd already done it
.
That could teach me the way,one step at a time, you know.
So when I came in and I putdown the alcohol, like the
alcohol was my protection and mysafety and the buffer from my
emotions and everything.
So I took that away and theanxiety was just, you know,
(19:06):
through the roof and I'm soworried, the worry about you
know how my husband thinks andwhat my kids are thinking and
how we're all relating to eachother.
And so the solution was todevelop a stronger relationship
with my higher power, who, forme, is God.
And, like you know, like Imentioned, I didn't, I didn't
believe in it when I came in,and I can remember when, when I
(19:28):
was told that the spiritualsolution, I was like, oh my gosh
, that's not going to work forme.
But I was promised that it would.
And you had told me, as long asyou're honest, open-minded and
willing and do this program tothe best of your ability, he's
going to come in and rearrangeeverything.
And he is going to come in andrearrange everything and he is
(19:48):
going to solve all your problems.
And when I share that withother moms who might be
struggling.
I say I want to add to that hewill solve all your problems.
And this program and I don'twant to stop doing either
because it's twofold to me it'smy higher power and it's the
12-step program that I'm in Ihave to do it all to stay
(20:09):
emotionally balanced and it's adefinite process.
I can remember calling you onetime and being like you know.
So I'm not allowed to fly offthe handle at my husband anymore
and I would end everyconversation or every argument
with him, as you know, F off andyou're like we don't do that
anymore.
I'm like well, it seems to work.
And I can't imagine saying thatto him today, because we do
(20:33):
evolve and grow and I like thecute little one-liners.
You either grow or you go, andthat is absolutely true.
I'm not going to be white assnow and perfect by any means,
but as long as I'm striving,like you said, to be the best
mom, the best wife I can be andnot focus so much on what the
other person's doing.
(20:54):
But how can I improve and I seeit even today in my emotional
stability If I'm doing all thethings I need to do to stay
close to my higher power and thewomen around me.
I'm relatively even keel, andif I am not, I'm flying off the
handle a lot quicker.
I'm snappier, I'm not a joy tobe around, and today I feel that
(21:18):
, and it's so uncomfortable forme that I want to get out of it,
and I know the solution todayis to get back to doing the
basic things that I need to do.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yeah, yeah.
And also you'd mentioned graceand giving yourself some grace
and you know, as a mom whodoesn't have a problem with
alcoholism, it requires a lot ofgrace on a daily basis because
we're constantly, you know,raising kids.
It's like an emotional rollercoaster every day.
You know, we're dealing with alot of different personalities
and their emotions and we'reresponsible for them and it's a
(21:50):
lot, and so when you add that in, it can be, but the rewards are
so great.
And like you talked about fearof judgment and all of that, and
everybody experiences that.
But it's like when you realizeyou're strong enough to have
become a mom.
You know I'm there, you knowyou get married or otherwise,
(22:13):
you're living your life, youhave gone through alcoholism,
you're absolutely strong enoughto make a decision, to put it
down and to succeed.
You know and I think you keptmentioning friends and support
and, as we both know, like Ithink community is so extremely
important because you know theaccountability and holding you
(22:33):
to the truth of who you arereally happens there.
And so, like, out in the world,with our acquaintances and and
people that we may, you know,see, see at school or see
whatever.
But there's really when youknow people and you know their
stories and you know where theycame from, there's just this
commonality that brings youtogether and you both root for
(22:55):
each other in such an incredibleway that you just you know it's
just.
I've never seen anything like itand it's just been like the
core piece, you know, tocontinuing to evolve in this
program is surrounding yourselfwith strong women who have gone
before you and done it and thenyou ask them and having the
courage to ask and then to taketheir advice, we know, I know, I
(23:16):
know how to do it, but we haveto say no, maybe we don't, and
we want to do it better.
And, um, you know there'ssomething to be said for the 12
step program that I know hascompletely saved my life A
hundred percent.
Um, you know there's somethingto be said for the 12-step
program that I know hascompletely saved my life 100%.
You know, that was my path andmy upbringing here, and I
believe it's why I am still hereand able to do anything that I
(23:40):
want, because I had such astrong foundation, and you as
well.
And just getting that right andhaving that willingness in the
beginning, even though, even ifwe think it's not going to work,
even if it seems all wrong andit feels all terrible, you know
that's kind of the clue thatit's working.
Like if you're not feelingright and it's like then it's
(24:01):
not supposed to be easy, becausethen it would be very easy to
let go of.
You know, when you pour a lotinto something, you have a hard
time just walking away from it.
So I think there's something tobe said for the hard work in
the beginning, because if youtruly are alcoholic, you have to
correct it or you're gonna endup not here and or somewhere
else where it's not gonna beyour house at home with your
(24:24):
family.
So, it's really a really seriousdisease for people who truly
suffer from alcoholism.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
And like, like you mentioned, you know when I'm
working with women and you know,and maybe detox is the answer
that they need, and they I can't.
I can't be away from the kids.
I can't be away from the kids.
And the reality is, as we know,if you don't get sober now,
maybe not even five years fromnow, you might not even have
(24:54):
your kids, and so it is so worthit to do whatever you need to
do to get sober, and if thatmeans some time away from the
kids, that's what we have to do.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yeah, and so do you ever concern yourself with, like
, if you go back to when youwere getting sober and you know,
you talked about your son.
And what about your daughter?
Did you see?
Because she was how old?
She was very young.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
She was very young yes, she was like one when I
started coming in and then justbarely three years old when I
got sober, wow.
And so she, like he remembers,like you know, a couple
arguments.
He doesn't remember a lot buthe, you know, it definitely
affected him more.
So she doesn't really remember,which is fantastic.
She doesn't remember me as a,as a drunk mom, but just our
(25:41):
relationship today is beyond mywildest dreams, which sounds so
dorky, is beyond my wildestdreams which sounds so dorky.
But it is because I, I've beenable to be a sounding board for
her and she knows that I'm asafe place to come to talk to.
And she has those conversationswith me about, about alcohol
and drinking and her fears andand is she going to be an
(26:03):
alcoholic?
And of course I tell herthere's no way I can tell you if
you are, you're not, but I knowthat.
You know you'll be okay.
You know it's not the deathsentence, that it used to be and
that always.
Just, you know, when I reallytruly think about how short of a
time this program has beenaround, I mean we used to be
locked up or dead.
There was no solution, and sotoday you know if that is her
(26:28):
future, you know, I'm fullyconfident that there will be
women to help her.
You know we joke in the meetingso often.
You know I'm grateful to behere.
When we come in we're like whatare you grateful about?
There's nothing to be gratefulabout.
And you know, today thisprogram has given me a way of
life beyond anything I couldhave imagined just the inside
(26:50):
work that I'm so grateful that Iam an alcoholic, so I could get
to this point, because you knowall of the psychologists, the
psychiatrists and the self-helpbooks and everything didn't get
me here.
And you know, as you promisedme, you do this work and it's
going to happen and it and itdid, and you know.
So today, you know I get to, Iget to walk beside her and you
(27:14):
know I've got a, an army ofwomen that'll be able to help
her if that's ever the case.
And maybe it's not, you know,we have no idea.
I have no idea.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Yeah, and we don't.
You know, that's the thing, youknow.
I remember stopping trying tofigure it out if it's a genetic
predisposition or if it'ssomething that I just grabbed as
people can grab something elselike food or money or shopping,
or you know, this just tends tohave a really poor outcome.
(27:42):
Can you hear me?
Because this kind of thing, youknow, there was a time I wanted
to go back and I did a timelineand like trying to figure out
when and what and where, andit's just I landed at the same
spot as you.
It's like I'm just grateful itall happened because, it
absolutely changed my life,which means it
changed the lives of everyonethat I touched and all of my
(28:04):
family members, and you know, Ibecame a different person
because of it and I would havenever got to otherwise.
So the gratitude is there forsure.
So what do you think about yourwhen you see girls who come in
and say that they couldn'tpossibly do this or do that
(28:24):
because of that?
You touched on that.
I remember a conversation Iheard once.
I understand what you weresaying when you said you can't
get sober because of yourchildren, but they certainly are
like a guiding force of keepingyou here.
Totally could relate with that,because when I put down alcohol
(28:45):
I did not have children yet, butmy brother's children were my
entire heart niece and nephew,and they were pivotal in the
reason that I chose to put thisdown forever because, I could
not imagine them getting a callor it just broke my heart.
(29:08):
It makes me choke, you know,like choke up right now because
it was.
I can just bring myself back tothat and you know, just, it was
just so like important to me tocorrect this, you know, and
absolutely incredible.
So I think that and we've seena lot of girls with custody
cases where having theirchildren taken away but then
brought back because they weresupported, were having their
(29:31):
children taken away but thenbrought back because they were
supported, like you said, anarmy of women showed up to their
court date to support them andto vouch for them because they
absolutely were living different.
So that's so important topeople.
No, there's hope.
It takes time and patience, butthere's also a lot of women who
have gone before and done allthis and have had exceptional
(29:52):
outcomes, just like yours.
What else do you?
Could you add anything as faras some of the benefits that
brought you back into communityor just in your home that this
kind of lifestyle has brought toyou because you've been doing
it for so long now?
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Well, I know, without a shadow of a doubt, that my
husband and I would not still betogether, you know, if I didn't
get sober.
I mentioned that he I have alot of gratitude for him wanting
to keep his family togetherbecause, you know, he was
rightly so, very angry with thesituation, but he, you know he
(30:31):
would have done anything.
And so today, for, you know, 26years, we're able to
communicate so much better.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
We just celebrated our 11th and I'm like oh, wow, I
mean that's like double andthen some.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
And you know, and I remember when I got to that
point where I'm like, wow, we'vebeen, I've been sober in my
marriage longer than I was drunkand of course the whole, the
first half wasn't all bad butyou know, but it just it was
dramatically different therelationship I'm able to.
You know I was able to help, um, my mom when she got sick and
(31:04):
through her passing, and youknow, so often in the rooms we
hear I was, you know, I was theone that needed all the help.
For so long Everybody wassurrounding around Jenny trying
to fix Jenny.
What can we do for Jenny?
And then, 15 years later, I'mthe one that they're coming to
to try to help in the diresituations when my mom needed
(31:26):
help getting to the doctors andthroughout the time that she
passed, I was the one that wasthere for her and for my dad
trying to navigate the wholething, which is mind-blowing.
And I can remember there was alot going on in my life at the
time that she got sick.
My kids were still in I thinkthey were middle school and high
school and I was working a lotof hours running a business and
(31:50):
there was a lot of drama in thebusiness.
And I can remember and I toldmy dad, I said, well, I'll start
taking mom to all the doctor'sappointments.
And he's like you don't havetime for that.
And with all the confidencethat I can only get from God, I
said he's going to work it out,he'll work it out.
And that is absolutely what hedid.
We made all of the doctor'sappointments and I got done
(32:13):
everything else that needed tobe done and then some.
And when I came in, I wouldnever have believed something
like that.
But that's how he works thingsout.
When I am focused on him andwhat he needs me to do, he makes
sure everything gets done.
And you know my children areextraordinarily important to my
(32:34):
God.
You know that he loves themjust as much as he loves me, and
he wants them to be happy andso, of course, he's not going to
neglect them, and that's how heworks it all out for the for
the better good.
You know when I would have nevertold you that I was afraid of
people or anything.
You know, when I came in, youknow if you asked me what is
(32:54):
your fear list, I'd be likethere's nothing.
You know I'm afraid of nothing,but the reality is is that, as
absolutely one of the reasonswhy I started drinking was fear
of people.
And you know, just feeling soinsecure in my skin and if I
didn't have the alcohol to makeme feel okay, I mean you know,
just feeling so insecure in myskin and if I didn't have the
alcohol to make me feel okay, Imean, you know, thinking
everybody's talking about it andnobody wants me there, nobody
(33:15):
likes me, you know, and that ifI try to tell to somebody who's
not an alcoholic, you know, thebiggest gift I've ever gotten is
that I feel okay.
And they're like that doesn'treally sound like a big gift,
but to me it's huge, because Inever felt okay and I wanted to
feel okay.
And so what can I put in me tofeel okay?
(33:37):
And the answer was the 12 stepsand reliance on a higher power.
Oh, my God, and now I can goanywhere and do anything and
feel comfortable being there,and for me that is miraculous.
It just, I mean, it makes, itmakes living so much more
worthwhile to not be constantlyin fear of what, of nobody
(33:59):
liking me, which you know cansound silly, but it was
overwhelming.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yeah, absolutely.
I agree with you a hundredpercent and I would.
I would beg to differ that Ithink people who are
non-alcoholic do feel that way.
I would think I mean maybe it'smore so because it's part of an
ism, but I think a lot ofpeople feel that way.
So it takes like people likeyou who are courageous enough to
(34:26):
say that out loud, where peoplego.
Oh my gosh, that is so truebecause we're all not that
different, because if they don'thave what we had.
They have something else, youknow, and so it's just about
that connection, thatunderstanding, empathy, like in
love for other women who aregoing before us, standing beside
(34:47):
us, sitting across from us, andjust having this greater
acceptance and understanding of.
They're probably feeling thistoo.
So, it's really okay and I lovethat.
I love that you can show up andand feel authentically yourself
and confident you know, and Ithink every yeah, it's just,
it's great, it's a gift.
It is a gift.
(35:08):
I think it's a genuinely, Ithink it's a huge gift to say I
feel, okay, you know.
I really do so with.
That said, what else can wetouch on with kids and momming?
I think what's important tonote about motherhood and
sobriety is you know, for me Ihad my children later in life.
(35:31):
It was just how it went.
You know, it's just how my lifeunfolded.
So some people may be young andjust trying to get this right
in their twenties.
Some people may be in theirforties and think I waited too
long and I can attest that youdidn't.
You can do it now.
But, like, what would you sayto moms out there who are
struggling with this alcoholismor just anything, anything in
(35:55):
their life that's just holdingthem back from being who they're
supposed to be?
Like, what advice would yougive to them?
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Well, moms who are struggling with alcohol.
I would encourage them to gethelp and if the first place that
they go to isn't the right help, just keep trying.
Fear kept me from getting truehelp for so long, just so
worried about what people aregoing to think and people you
(36:23):
know, like you said, judging meand for my alcoholism that I
stayed sick and alone for such along time.
You know there are, I was, Iwas.
I had preconceived notions ofwhat the 12 step programs were
like, so I didn't want to gothere and I can tell you that,
especially today, there are somany women there that it just it
(36:48):
becomes, you know, like afamily and there's so many of us
that come in and we're like, oh, I don't like women, you know,
and that's, that's our.
I don't like women, I don't wantto be friends with women and I
think I would willing to say ahundred percent of it is because
we're judging the other women.
(37:08):
So of course we think they'rejudging us and, um, you know
past relationships with women,you know we were always fighting
and you know competing againsteach other and I can say without
a shadow of a doubt that inthis program there is no
competition that everybody justhas, wants the best for each
other, and that is such afreeing place to be and like
(37:31):
with if you have young children,to find the meetings where
there are women willing to takeyour kids outside while you do
the meeting or hold the babywhile you're in the meeting and
there's tons of them in our areathat are very child-friendly,
that make it comfortable to gothere with.
Because I would have never havethought that in a million years
I didn't think I could.
Yes, that's so true.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
I remember somebody years ago wanted to go there
with Cause.
I would have never have thoughtthat in a million years I
didn't think I could.
That's so true.
I remember somebody years agowanted to go become an
esthetician.
She wanted to get back into thework world.
Her kids were about eight, nine, whatever, and she's like how
am I going to do this?
And everybody kind of ralliedaround her and said I'll pick up
on Tuesdays, thursdays she wentback to school and that's what
she was.
She became an esthetician andstarted making her own money.
(38:11):
Yeah it's just incredible, theydo really show up show up
because they know.
I mean, they know how difficultit is and they're there for one
another.
And it is so true that peopleshow up and say I'm not.
You know, I don't do well withother women you know, and just
as we've, we've like, just as inthe past, how we kind of lived,
(38:32):
like thinking the lie, was thetruth that when you start to
live in full truth, that becomes, you know, thrown out too,
because there's nothing betterthan sitting in a room full of
women.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Yes, and you know, if you're in a group and they're
judging you, that's just that'snot the right group, it's just
the wrong group.
And and I, if you're in a groupand they're judging you, that's
just that's not the right group.
And I'm grateful that there'svery few wrong groups in our
area.
In my opinion, everywhere I go,I feel welcomed and we're all
there just for the commonsolution to get, to get well and
to be well and to get better.
(39:06):
And if you have kids, we'regoing to, we're going to hold
your babies and we're going tohelp you through that.
You're not.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
That's right.
That's right.
Yeah, that's so true.
So what has been your biggestgift?
Being a mom who has made thatchoice 16 years ago?
Speaker 2 (39:23):
The relationship and the friendship that I have with
my children today, Getting sober.
When you have children and youget sober, I would say most of
us go through a period where theguilt we feel so much guilt
that how do we parent and startcoming up with discipline and
(39:43):
rules and all these things whenwe have so much guilt.
And that was a long journey togo through to come up with the
parenting style that worked, towhere my children respect me.
But we're also very close andwe enjoy being together and they
have shared with me over theyears friends of theirs that
have parents that are activealcoholics and whenever we have
(40:08):
those conversations I am justfilled with such gratitude that
I am a sober mom to them today,because that I would be exactly
who they are school, you know,if you think you can't leave
your kid to go to detox, thinkabout and this was just from
(40:31):
alcohol, it wasn't drugs, it wasjust from alcohol, too many
DUIs and the things that camewith it.
So she's in prison, she'sreally not there for her child
and you know, my kids know thesestories and for them to be able
to come to me and they'll askme why can't their mom get sober
?
That's no.
There's no easy answer.
I can only say the solution isthere, but it's just it's very
(40:53):
hard to find the understanding.
I think that that is thesolution you know, like we
shared about, when we think thatthe alcohol is the solution.
The alcoholism is so strong inour brains that it's so hard to
see that there's another way outthere, Like we say all the time
.
For that, I'm very gratefulthat, for whatever reason, I did
(41:14):
find the way, but there are somany struggling that just can't
find it.
Beyond anything, myrelationship with my children
and the fact that I get to wakeup every morning to be the best
mom I can be because of course Istill screw it up royally often
but whenever I do, I can thinkto myself I've got another
chance tomorrow, Whereas if Iwas still the drunk mom, if I
(41:37):
was alive by this time, theywouldn't want anything to do
with me Rightly so, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
I can recall somebody saying, when I was talking
about my niece and nephew, therewas a woman.
She was speaking about how shewas having this intimate
conversation with her niece andshe said you know, I couldn't
believe it that I was sittingthere having this conversation.
She was talking to me aboutthis thing, these things, and it
wasn't about like the contentof the conversation that struck
(42:05):
her as being like incredible.
It was about the fact that shewas there to have it.
The fact that I was there wasjust such a miracle because of
how she had lived before andshoot.
she was just so overwhelmed withsuch a sense of like, gratitude
and just so grateful for themoment and for her life.
And so, yeah, you talk aboutjust so many things that are so
(42:29):
important and so powerful andsuch an example of hope for
people who are on their way inand trying to make a positive
change.
You know, sitting here with 16years of sobriety, a 26 year
marriage and an incrediblerelationship with both your
children is absolutely amazing.
Do you have any other piece ofhope that you'd like to share
(42:51):
with anyone else listening?
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Well, when I heard that woman share about that the
only thing stronger than amother's love is alcoholism, I
kind of added to that For me,the only thing stronger than a
mother's love is alcoholism.
But the only thing strongerthan alcoholism is God's love,
and it was instilled in me verystrongly and continues to be
that.
It is imperative that I keepseeking and throughout the book
(43:16):
that we read, it constantlytells us that we need to keep
seeking God's will for us andthat He'll solve all my problems
, as long as I'm getting closeto Him and following what he
wants us to do.
And what does he want me to do?
He wants me to help other women.
That has been one of theconsistencies throughout,
whether my kids were in school,out of school, what was going on
(43:37):
in work is.
I have always been helpingwomen throughout these years and
I know that that has kept mesober.
The woman I mentioned that wentto prison.
I can remember being about fiveyears sober and I was getting
busy in life.
Everything was getting busy andshe reached out to me and she'd
had like 15 years sobriety andshe went back out and her life
(44:00):
had become a complete mess veryquickly and I tried to help her
at that time and I knew sostrongly.
God put her in my life right atthis time because I was getting
too busy and I've seen so manywomen that just get too busy and
I've shared this with thembefore is when we're feeling
busy, meetings seem like thelogical thing to stop doing.
(44:24):
I've got way too much time togo to these meetings.
And then there's almost afeeling of relief when we stop
going to them.
It's like I can't stop being amom, I can't stop working, I
can't stop doing all thesethings, but I can choose not to
go to that meeting and then thatjust frees up so much time.
But then I would say 95, 100%of the time fast forward and
(44:45):
alcohol seems like a logicalchoice.
And then they're back out anddrinking again and I think
partly because my kids I hadkids and they were young when I
got sober it's instilled sodeeply in me that it's just a
part of my way of life.
There I wouldn't.
I would no sooner stop going tomeetings and doing my morning
routines than than I would stopeating food and drinking water.
(45:08):
I mean, it's just such a partof me that of course I'm going
to keep doing it and wheneverlife gets too busy I work with
the women around me to figureout how to navigate it.
But it's never an option ofstop doing the things that got
me sober, stop doing the thingsthat get me closer to my higher
power, because for me I knowwithout a shadow of a doubt that
(45:29):
that will take me back out.
And I saw the progression bothat my pregnancies and then also.
I had a year of not drinkingand I drank again.
I saw that progression of thisdisease that I know today that
it would be catastrophic if Ipicked up a drink again and you
(45:50):
know we always say, you knowI've got so much more to lose
today than I did when I came inand the thought of my kids
seeing me drunk oh boy, thatwould break my heart.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
Wow, yeah, that's powerful.
That's good because life doesget busy and you know the
priority that was at thebeginning.
You know minimizes and thenthat is so true.
Everything you just said was sotrue and you can throw that out
because it brings a lot ofrelief, because there's a little
space, but you have to rememberwhat that could truly bring.
(46:26):
And this has been such a greatconversation.
I would love to have you onagain at some other time to talk
about another topic because,with 16 years, and just such an
example to so many women and notonly that, but to your family
and to your children, when youinstall spiritual principles in
your life and an act of serviceand an altruistic life and those
(46:48):
measures I mean like analtruistic life and those
measures, I mean that's whatyou're giving to your kids now.
That example because you liveit day in and day out.
The consistency is incredibleand what a gift and what an
incredible mother, just familymember, wife and member of the
community, where you just reallyuplift so many women in our
(47:09):
community.
Oh, I just feel so blessed toknow you.
I'm so, I'm so grateful for ourfriendship and I'm so glad you
came on the show today.
Thank you so much, thank you.
Hi and welcome to another episode of the Sober
Living Stories podcast.
Meet Jenny.
She's a dedicated mom of two,has been married for 26 years
and is also a powerful exampleof living an alcohol-free
lifestyle.
Her commitment to a positivechange that she made 16 years
ago has not only transformed herown life, but has made a
(00:20):
significant impact on hercommunity.
Jenny generously dedicates hertime and support to uplift other
women seeking success in thealcohol-free space.
She's going to join us todayand share a part of her personal
story for the very first time,and she's going to talk about
what it's like to be sober as amom and how she got that way.
(00:40):
So she's going to take us allthe way back and bring us up to
her present day, giving usinsights along the way.
Welcome to the show, jenny.
I'm so happy to have you here.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Thank you, jessica, it's good to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
One thing I did not mention is Jenny and I have been
best friends, almost closing inon 20 years now, and it took
her about a year to come on andI was surprised one day to open
my inbox and see her there.
Sharing your story is a verypersonal thing to do and it's
also courageous because you kindof allow yourself to be
(01:13):
vulnerable.
But then it's very powerful fornot only the person telling
their story but for the peoplethat hear it.
So I'm so glad you're here.
Just start at the verybeginning and just take us to
your present day.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
All right, you know you had asked me what I kind of
wanted to focus on and I was ata.
I heard some speakers a coupleof weekends ago and one of the
speakers said she said the onlything more powerful than a
mother's love is alcoholism.
And that struck me sopowerfully because I can
remember not understandingalcoholism at all, trying to not
(01:51):
drink every day and drinkingevery day, and at the time I had
a one-year-old and athree-year-old and I wanted
nothing more than to be the bestmother I could possibly be for
these children and I would failevery day.
Once I came in and I was taughtwhat alcoholism is and that it
contains a physical allergy, Iunderstood where I was at that
(02:14):
time.
But back then, 18 years ago, Iwould wake up every morning and
the thought would come to myhead I would pray to a God who I
did not understand, didn'tbelieve in at the time, and I
would just say please don't letme drink today.
And I would hear a voice thatwould say well, you need to
throw away the vodka that you'vegot hidden in the underwear
drawer.
(02:34):
And then I would reply no,because I just need a little bit
.
And every morning I would wakeup and I would feel so insane.
In my head Nothing felt clear,everything was so erratic.
And I would take a drink ofthat vodka and everything would
just get clear and calm.
My world seemed okay and Iwould think, how am I supposed
(02:55):
to give this up if it's the onlything that makes me feel sane?
And that's what I believed?
And then if it would havelasted like that for the whole
day, that would have been great.
But what I didn't realize, ofcourse, is once I put the
alcohol into my system, thephysical allergy kicked off and
I had no choice for that entireday and I would try to fight it.
(03:16):
The craving and the physicalallergy was just so strong in me
that I would lose the battleevery day and I would feel like
such a pathetic mother humanbeing.
You know, I can.
I often, when I share my story,I talk about, you know, trying
to read my kids' bedtime storiesand I couldn't keep my eyes
(03:36):
open because you know I wasgoing to pass out and I would
think to myself how am I goingto keep doing this?
And you know, I think how am Igoing to help them with their
algebra homework, their geometryhomework when they're older.
Because I didn't.
I didn't know that there was asolution out there.
I just thought that I had totry to figure out how to manage
being a drunk mom, because I hadtried to stop drinking so many
(03:59):
times before this that I wasabsolutely hopeless and I
thought this was just my lot forlife.
I've got to figure out how tomanage it and it was a miserable
way to live.
And I don't know how manypsychologists, psychiatrists
before this point some of them,had suggested a 12-step program,
(04:21):
like probably at least 10 yearsearlier.
Um, it suggests a stronglysuggested a 12 step program.
And I was like, absolutely not.
And at the time I was like youknow, that's not my problem, if
we could figure out all myproblems, then I wouldn't drink
that much.
And you know he was like that'snot how it works.
But that's what I believed.
(04:42):
And you know I always say thatthe 12, the 12 step program, was
the last door on the block forme.
I wanted anything but that.
I knew I was an alcoholic, Iknew I couldn't stop drinking,
but please, let there besomething other than than that.
And I had tried, um, you know,different.
I went to psychiatrists thatput me on medications, went to
(05:12):
multiple psychologists who flewto Boston to be hypnotized and I
tried this humongous vitaminprogram that I had completely
forgotten about until I keptgetting these ads for the
vitamin program and I'm like, ohyeah, my poor sister had bought
me like this big kit for thevitamins to try to, you know,
try to help me.
And I tried over exercising.
I mean I'd like every anythingpossible to stop drinking.
I tried to do and probably youknow the five years leading up
(05:33):
and you know when.
I remember when, when I foundout I was pregnant with my son,
I mean I was incredibly gratefulthat I was able to stop
drinking for both of mypregnancies.
But what I believe I know todayis that my alcoholism had not
progressed to the point thatthat was not, would not be
(05:54):
possible.
I kind of believe if there wasa third pregnancy before
sobriety, it probably would nothave gone that way, because each
time I picked up after mychildren were born, the
progression was significant.
And like for the firstpregnancy, you know, I was put
it down and I was okay, and forthe second pregnancy, I thought
(06:16):
about it throughout the wholepregnancy when do I get to drink
again?
When do I get to drink again?
And my husband, you know, when,I remember after, after, when I
got I think it was after thebirth of my son, and you know
and he was like you know well,we know you can stop.
So just, you know, just don'tdrink the hard stuff, just stick
to wine.
And I was like that's a greatidea.
(06:37):
You know, we were both somisunderstanding of what was
going on.
And then, after the second time, you know, he would literally
beg me not to drink and justlike it was my greatest desire,
it was his too.
He wanted to hold his familytogether and he would have done
anything to hold his familytogether.
Neither of us understood thedisease of alcoholism, so we
(07:00):
were trying to fight it withoutgoing to the solution.
And you know, it was absolutelychaotic.
And I can remember, like when Ihad about a year of sobriety
and one of our friends who hadcome in about the same time and
she's like I just can't evenimagine getting sober with
children.
You know, getting sober takesup all my time.
How could you possibly do itwith children?
(07:20):
And my first thought was Ican't imagine doing it without
children, because children don'tkeep me sober.
But they definitely gave me ahuge reason why I wanted to be a
sober woman.
Like I said, that was mybiggest desire every morning was
just to be the best mom I couldbe.
And so when I've worked withsome women to try to help with
(07:45):
their sobriety journey ifthey're actively drinking and
the topic comes up of going to adetox or going to rehab, I want
to say 100% of them feel Ican't leave my children.
I know today is that's such atiny blip in the rest of our
lives that it is so tremendouslyworth it, like I.
(08:10):
You know, in hindsight, if Icould have done that, that would
have been fantastic, but youknow I can't leave my kids.
They need me.
The reality is they did notneed that mom.
You know some people will refuseto say I was an abusive mother.
The way I was drinking isabsolutely abusive and the
things you know I would put themin their car seats and drive
(08:31):
with them after I had beendrinking.
That is absolutely abuse andyou and I had talked about
before.
You know if a babysitter wasdoing the things you know that I
would, there's no way I wouldlet her in my house and I was,
you know the mom trying my best,but that's not an that's no
excuse.
And, um, and you know todaythat I know the solution,
(08:52):
there's absolutely no excuse.
You know I can give myself somegrace for the fact that I
didn't understand the diseaseand know the solution, but, um,
you know that I would doanything to protect my kids and
at that time in my life I was doanything to protect my kids and
at that time in my life I wasprobably the biggest danger to
them.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Wow, yeah, you talked about so many things, so let's
pause here for a second and justgo back, because this is really
honestly, it's incredible thatyou came on today and talked
about this subject in particularBecause just this morning I was
scrolling through and I saw anacquaintance of ours Her name is
Ashley and she posted somethingabout her son and I reached out
(09:32):
to her because it just hit mein my heart and I thought I
asked her.
I said I don't know if youspeak out loud about your
recovery, but I would love tohave you on because one of the
best listened to and mostpopular episodes on this podcast
was one that had family in thetitle and to speak about being a
mom and the gratitude and theyou know everything that comes
(09:54):
with that when you're insobriety or living alcohol free
or made a positive change.
So I just reached out to herand I didn't know what you were
going to talk about, but when,before we hit record, you said
I'd like you know, I'd like togo over a couple of things here,
so I'm so glad for that.
You talked about alcoholism asa disease and I can relate to
that because I I was the same inthat I thought every drink I
(10:17):
was putting into me was helpingme too.
You know, I'll stop doing thiswhen I'm not so sad.
I'll stop doing this when I'mnot.
So fill in the blank and notunderstanding the disease of
alcoholism.
I didn't understand that.
That was the one thing, becauseI had already crossed over.
That was keeping me sick.
So, understanding what thedisease is A and then B you had
(10:40):
talked about.
Well, I've known you for a long, for a very long time and what
you just spoke about just waslike because I don't, I mean, I
see you as just health andwellness and beauty and grace
and faith filled and incrediblemom and so.
But you know, to talk about howit was then and having a better
(11:06):
understanding of the diseaseand stuff, it's just, it's just
unbelievable because there's somany people that don't
understand like, yes, if you'rein the throes of alcoholism,
that this is a disease and itdoes need a solution, and it's
usually a spiritual solution,because we've tried all the
other ones for whatever reason,we don't have to understand it,
but they didn't give us thelongstanding sobriety we were
(11:28):
looking for.
That would be required to have acomplete life change as a mom,
a wife, a business professionalor a community member right.
So what have you seen in yourhome change since you've started
this way so many years ago?
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Well, bless my son.
My son is 22 now and when Ifully got sober he was five,
yeah, five.
He was five years old, he wasin kindergarten and he was
failing kindergarten Anythingwith the kids.
It just breaks my heart tothink about.
But this poor little guy, hewas so full of anxiety and he
(12:05):
had symptoms of OCD.
He was in kindergarten justconstantly washing his hands,
constantly washing his hands,and I can remember being in the
principal's office discussingthis and I knew that it was
because of his home life, but Ifelt like I couldn't share that
with them.
So I knew what the problem was,but I sure wasn't going to
share that with them.
But so how are we going to fixthis problem without actually
(12:27):
discussing what the real problemwas?
So fast forward to now, youknow he's living on his own with
some roommates in an apartment,going to University of Central
Florida, getting his bachelor'sin computer science, and he's
just thriving and it was, youknow, amazing, quite a process
between kindergarten to there,of him healing alongside of me.
(12:49):
You know we went through theOCD and the anxiety and the
depression and I'm, you know,extraordinarily grateful that I
got the help and the confidenceto be able to, by this time,
tell people what the realproblem was.
When I would take him topsychologists and doctors, I
would, you know, flat out, saylook, I'm an alcoholic, I'm a
(13:10):
recovered alcoholic.
But you know, here's part ofwhy we are here and why this is
happening so that they didn'thave to guess and they didn't
come up with the wrong reasonsand so that he was able to get
the help he needed.
And you know, fast forward towhen he was in middle school,
like I didn't share with them,you know that I was an alcoholic
(13:34):
and what was going on until hewas in middle school, I knew the
conversation was going to haveto happen and I didn't know when
it was going to happen and whatyou know.
And he came home and he's likeyou know, we're learning about
alcoholism in school and he justhad all these questions and I
think in the back of his mind heknew you know, looking back on
it now, just the way he wasasking me questions about
alcoholism and I just got theoverwhelming feeling that this
(13:57):
is it, I have to tell him.
And I told him and he burst outin tears and his he said to me
you were the person I looked upto most in this world.
Now I don't want to be anythinglike you, and I mean like my
heart just about stopped.
And then by the end of theconversation he said you know,
if you could overcome that, thenI know I can overcome anything.
(14:25):
Today it's a very openconversation in our home because
my friends taught me that Ineed to put my program first and
my 12-step program first.
They know when I'm going tomeetings and doing these things
and working with other women,how vitally important it is to
my life and they support it.
And there are times when mydaughter will be like do you
really have to go to another one?
And she's helped me to kind ofrelax a little bit, I guess.
(14:47):
One time I was visiting her inOrlando and I'm like I got to go
, I've got to get back, I've gotto get back, and she's like do
you really?
I don't know.
I think I can stay here withyou and that's.
You know the whole balance.
That's challenging butnecessary, and for me it's
continuing to learn and grow andevolve and it just it changes
(15:07):
constantly.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Yeah, and that's so important.
I think there's so many momsout there who either struggle
with you know this particulareither getting sober or staying
that way, and then they have todeal with which you didn't have
to, but custody and differentthings having their children
taken away.
You can't think of anythingworse, you know.
And so how important it is tomake that change, and to make it
(15:33):
a permanent change, not for itto fluctuate, but I know that it
is difficult in the beginning,as we get sober, to understand
what it is and to stay that way.
So could you talk a little bitabout your beginning of that
walk and what happened and somethings that you did or maybe
people could avoid and how yousucceeded in staying, because I
(15:57):
think that's difficult forpeople.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think it's very common formothers to think I can't be away
from my child.
My child needs me and what Ilearned is what my child needs
is a sober, healthy, emotionallystable mother, and early on.
I'm very fortunate that myhusband I had a husband who was
(16:20):
supportive and we would get thekids to sleep by like 7 pm and
then I would hit the 8 pmmeeting.
And I was also fortunate Icould go during the day and I
would hit the noon meeting.
My friends taught me again thatonce my husband understood the
importance, he was going to stepon board to help me.
(16:41):
And I know that's noteverybody's situation but, like
I said, I'm very grateful thatit was mine, that he was helpful
.
There was a lot of resentmentbut we walked through it.
It wasn't an easy thing to do.
You know, at one point he'slike you know, is this our life?
Now?
We're just going to be passingoff the children while you run
off to meetings, and I was, youknow, honestly, like I don't
know.
But this is what our life hasto be at this moment and I do
(17:04):
try to encourage new women inthat that it's going to be a lot
, especially the first year, butthen it can become almost
effortless and it just becomes apart of your every day, your
day to day.
You know, I would, once I wasable to start working again, and
you know it would be likethroughout the school year my
(17:25):
meetings and things would looklike this, and then summer would
happen and I would have toswitch it all up.
That would no longer work.
I think one of the things thatI see today is the women who get
sober and then they have kids.
A lot of times they think, oh,I've got to pour it all into the
children, which of course we do.
But we're not going to be anygood to anybody if we're not
(17:47):
sober.
And I know for me that when I'mdoing the things I need to do,
I have so much more patience andtolerance and love, even, you
know, for the kids, you know,but having toddlers is not easy
at all.
Cut back on everything I'mdoing spiritually, I'm just
making everything else so muchharder.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah, you know I well this is a good segue into
exactly this is that what wefind out is it's not really
about the drink or alcoholitself, it's about kind of what
it does to us.
And I think what livingalcohol-free does is it puts us
back on some emotional planewhere we can actively be
(18:25):
wonderful moms and committedwives and just members of
society again, because it bringsus that emotional stability.
And so how did you see thathappen in your life?
Going from where you came fromto removing the alcohol but then
learning how to liveemotionally stable and
well-rounded and balanced?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Absolutely.
That was by surrounding myselfwith women who'd already done it
.
That could teach me the way,one step at a time, you know.
So when I came in and I putdown the alcohol, like the
alcohol was my protection and mysafety and the buffer from my
emotions and everything.
So I took that away and theanxiety was just, you know,
(19:06):
through the roof and I'm soworried, the worry about you
know how my husband thinks andwhat my kids are thinking and
how we're all relating to eachother.
And so the solution was todevelop a stronger relationship
with my higher power, who, forme, is God.
And, like you know, like Imentioned, I didn't, I didn't
believe in it when I came in,and I can remember when, when I
(19:28):
was told that the spiritualsolution, I was like, oh my gosh
, that's not going to work forme.
But I was promised that it would.
And you had told me, as long asyou're honest, open-minded and
willing and do this program tothe best of your ability, he's
going to come in and rearrangeeverything.
And he is going to come in andrearrange everything and he is
(19:48):
going to solve all your problems.
And when I share that withother moms who might be
struggling.
I say I want to add to that hewill solve all your problems.
And this program and I don'twant to stop doing either
because it's twofold to me it'smy higher power and it's the
12-step program that I'm in Ihave to do it all to stay
(20:09):
emotionally balanced and it's adefinite process.
I can remember calling you onetime and being like you know.
So I'm not allowed to fly offthe handle at my husband anymore
and I would end everyconversation or every argument
with him, as you know, F off andyou're like we don't do that
anymore.
I'm like well, it seems to work.
And I can't imagine saying thatto him today, because we do
(20:33):
evolve and grow and I like thecute little one-liners.
You either grow or you go, andthat is absolutely true.
I'm not going to be white assnow and perfect by any means,
but as long as I'm striving,like you said, to be the best
mom, the best wife I can be andnot focus so much on what the
other person's doing.
(20:54):
But how can I improve and I seeit even today in my emotional
stability If I'm doing all thethings I need to do to stay
close to my higher power and thewomen around me.
I'm relatively even keel, andif I am not, I'm flying off the
handle a lot quicker.
I'm snappier, I'm not a joy tobe around, and today I feel that
(21:18):
, and it's so uncomfortable forme that I want to get out of it,
and I know the solution todayis to get back to doing the
basic things that I need to do.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yeah, yeah.
And also you'd mentioned graceand giving yourself some grace
and you know, as a mom whodoesn't have a problem with
alcoholism, it requires a lot ofgrace on a daily basis because
we're constantly, you know,raising kids.
It's like an emotional rollercoaster every day.
You know, we're dealing with alot of different personalities
and their emotions and we'reresponsible for them and it's a
(21:50):
lot, and so when you add that in, it can be, but the rewards are
so great.
And like you talked about fearof judgment and all of that, and
everybody experiences that.
But it's like when you realizeyou're strong enough to have
become a mom.
You know I'm there, you knowyou get married or otherwise,
(22:13):
you're living your life, youhave gone through alcoholism,
you're absolutely strong enoughto make a decision, to put it
down and to succeed.
You know and I think you keptmentioning friends and support
and, as we both know, like Ithink community is so extremely
important because you know theaccountability and holding you
(22:33):
to the truth of who you arereally happens there.
And so, like, out in the world,with our acquaintances and and
people that we may, you know,see, see at school or see
whatever.
But there's really when youknow people and you know their
stories and you know where theycame from, there's just this
commonality that brings youtogether and you both root for
(22:55):
each other in such an incredibleway that you just you know it's
just.
I've never seen anything like itand it's just been like the
core piece, you know, tocontinuing to evolve in this
program is surrounding yourselfwith strong women who have gone
before you and done it and thenyou ask them and having the
courage to ask and then to taketheir advice, we know, I know, I
(23:16):
know how to do it, but we haveto say no, maybe we don't, and
we want to do it better.
And, um, you know there'ssomething to be said for the 12
step program that I know hascompletely saved my life A
hundred percent.
Um, you know there's somethingto be said for the 12-step
program that I know hascompletely saved my life 100%.
You know, that was my path andmy upbringing here, and I
believe it's why I am still hereand able to do anything that I
(23:40):
want, because I had such astrong foundation, and you as
well.
And just getting that right andhaving that willingness in the
beginning, even though, even ifwe think it's not going to work,
even if it seems all wrong andit feels all terrible, you know
that's kind of the clue thatit's working.
Like if you're not feelingright and it's like then it's
(24:01):
not supposed to be easy, becausethen it would be very easy to
let go of.
You know, when you pour a lotinto something, you have a hard
time just walking away from it.
So I think there's something tobe said for the hard work in
the beginning, because if youtruly are alcoholic, you have to
correct it or you're gonna endup not here and or somewhere
else where it's not gonna beyour house at home with your
(24:24):
family.
So, it's really a really seriousdisease for people who truly
suffer from alcoholism.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
And like, like you mentioned, you know when I'm
working with women and you know,and maybe detox is the answer
that they need, and they I can't.
I can't be away from the kids.
I can't be away from the kids.
And the reality is, as we know,if you don't get sober now,
maybe not even five years fromnow, you might not even have
(24:54):
your kids, and so it is so worthit to do whatever you need to
do to get sober, and if thatmeans some time away from the
kids, that's what we have to do.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yeah, and so do you ever concern yourself with, like
, if you go back to when youwere getting sober and you know,
you talked about your son.
And what about your daughter?
Did you see?
Because she was how old?
She was very young.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
She was very young yes, she was like one when I
started coming in and then justbarely three years old when I
got sober, wow.
And so she, like he remembers,like you know, a couple
arguments.
He doesn't remember a lot buthe, you know, it definitely
affected him more.
So she doesn't really remember,which is fantastic.
She doesn't remember me as a,as a drunk mom, but just our
(25:41):
relationship today is beyond mywildest dreams, which sounds so
dorky, is beyond my wildestdreams which sounds so dorky.
But it is because I, I've beenable to be a sounding board for
her and she knows that I'm asafe place to come to talk to.
And she has those conversationswith me about, about alcohol
and drinking and her fears andand is she going to be an
(26:03):
alcoholic?
And of course I tell herthere's no way I can tell you if
you are, you're not, but I knowthat.
You know you'll be okay.
You know it's not the deathsentence, that it used to be and
that always.
Just, you know, when I reallytruly think about how short of a
time this program has beenaround, I mean we used to be
locked up or dead.
There was no solution, and sotoday you know if that is her
(26:28):
future, you know, I'm fullyconfident that there will be
women to help her.
You know we joke in the meetingso often.
You know I'm grateful to behere.
When we come in we're like whatare you grateful about?
There's nothing to be gratefulabout.
And you know, today thisprogram has given me a way of
life beyond anything I couldhave imagined just the inside
(26:50):
work that I'm so grateful that Iam an alcoholic, so I could get
to this point, because you knowall of the psychologists, the
psychiatrists and the self-helpbooks and everything didn't get
me here.
And you know, as you promisedme, you do this work and it's
going to happen and it and itdid, and you know.
So today, you know I get to, Iget to walk beside her and you
(27:14):
know I've got a, an army ofwomen that'll be able to help
her if that's ever the case.
And maybe it's not, you know,we have no idea.
I have no idea.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Yeah, and we don't.
You know, that's the thing, youknow.
I remember stopping trying tofigure it out if it's a genetic
predisposition or if it'ssomething that I just grabbed as
people can grab something elselike food or money or shopping,
or you know, this just tends tohave a really poor outcome.
(27:42):
Can you hear me?
Because this kind of thing, youknow, there was a time I wanted
to go back and I did a timelineand like trying to figure out
when and what and where, andit's just I landed at the same
spot as you.
It's like I'm just grateful itall happened because, it
absolutely changed my life,which means it
changed the lives of everyonethat I touched and all of my
(28:04):
family members, and you know, Ibecame a different person
because of it and I would havenever got to otherwise.
So the gratitude is there forsure.
So what do you think about yourwhen you see girls who come in
and say that they couldn'tpossibly do this or do that
(28:24):
because of that?
You touched on that.
I remember a conversation Iheard once.
I understand what you weresaying when you said you can't
get sober because of yourchildren, but they certainly are
like a guiding force of keepingyou here.
Totally could relate with that,because when I put down alcohol
(28:45):
I did not have children yet, butmy brother's children were my
entire heart niece and nephew,and they were pivotal in the
reason that I chose to put thisdown forever because, I could
not imagine them getting a callor it just broke my heart.
(29:08):
It makes me choke, you know,like choke up right now because
it was.
I can just bring myself back tothat and you know, just, it was
just so like important to me tocorrect this, you know, and
absolutely incredible.
So I think that and we've seena lot of girls with custody
cases where having theirchildren taken away but then
brought back because they weresupported, were having their
(29:31):
children taken away but thenbrought back because they were
supported, like you said, anarmy of women showed up to their
court date to support them andto vouch for them because they
absolutely were living different.
So that's so important topeople.
No, there's hope.
It takes time and patience, butthere's also a lot of women who
have gone before and done allthis and have had exceptional
(29:52):
outcomes, just like yours.
What else do you?
Could you add anything as faras some of the benefits that
brought you back into communityor just in your home that this
kind of lifestyle has brought toyou because you've been doing
it for so long now?
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Well, I know, without a shadow of a doubt, that my
husband and I would not still betogether, you know, if I didn't
get sober.
I mentioned that he I have alot of gratitude for him wanting
to keep his family togetherbecause, you know, he was
rightly so, very angry with thesituation, but he, you know he
(30:31):
would have done anything.
And so today, for, you know, 26years, we're able to
communicate so much better.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
We just celebrated our 11th and I'm like oh, wow, I
mean that's like double andthen some.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
And you know, and I remember when I got to that
point where I'm like, wow, we'vebeen, I've been sober in my
marriage longer than I was drunkand of course the whole, the
first half wasn't all bad butyou know, but it just it was
dramatically different therelationship I'm able to.
You know I was able to help, um, my mom when she got sick and
(31:04):
through her passing, and youknow, so often in the rooms we
hear I was, you know, I was theone that needed all the help.
For so long Everybody wassurrounding around Jenny trying
to fix Jenny.
What can we do for Jenny?
And then, 15 years later, I'mthe one that they're coming to
to try to help in the diresituations when my mom needed
(31:26):
help getting to the doctors andthroughout the time that she
passed, I was the one that wasthere for her and for my dad
trying to navigate the wholething, which is mind-blowing.
And I can remember there was alot going on in my life at the
time that she got sick.
My kids were still in I thinkthey were middle school and high
school and I was working a lotof hours running a business and
(31:50):
there was a lot of drama in thebusiness.
And I can remember and I toldmy dad, I said, well, I'll start
taking mom to all the doctor'sappointments.
And he's like you don't havetime for that.
And with all the confidencethat I can only get from God, I
said he's going to work it out,he'll work it out.
And that is absolutely what hedid.
We made all of the doctor'sappointments and I got done
(32:13):
everything else that needed tobe done and then some.
And when I came in, I wouldnever have believed something
like that.
But that's how he works thingsout.
When I am focused on him andwhat he needs me to do, he makes
sure everything gets done.
And you know my children areextraordinarily important to my
(32:34):
God.
You know that he loves themjust as much as he loves me, and
he wants them to be happy andso, of course, he's not going to
neglect them, and that's how heworks it all out for the for
the better good.
You know when I would have nevertold you that I was afraid of
people or anything.
You know, when I came in, youknow if you asked me what is
(32:54):
your fear list, I'd be likethere's nothing.
You know I'm afraid of nothing,but the reality is is that, as
absolutely one of the reasonswhy I started drinking was fear
of people.
And you know, just feeling soinsecure in my skin and if I
didn't have the alcohol to makeme feel okay, I mean you know,
just feeling so insecure in myskin and if I didn't have the
alcohol to make me feel okay, Imean, you know, thinking
everybody's talking about it andnobody wants me there, nobody
(33:15):
likes me, you know, and that ifI try to tell to somebody who's
not an alcoholic, you know, thebiggest gift I've ever gotten is
that I feel okay.
And they're like that doesn'treally sound like a big gift,
but to me it's huge, because Inever felt okay and I wanted to
feel okay.
And so what can I put in me tofeel okay?
(33:37):
And the answer was the 12 stepsand reliance on a higher power.
Oh, my God, and now I can goanywhere and do anything and
feel comfortable being there,and for me that is miraculous.
It just, I mean, it makes, itmakes living so much more
worthwhile to not be constantlyin fear of what, of nobody
(33:59):
liking me, which you know cansound silly, but it was
overwhelming.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yeah, absolutely.
I agree with you a hundredpercent and I would.
I would beg to differ that Ithink people who are
non-alcoholic do feel that way.
I would think I mean maybe it'smore so because it's part of an
ism, but I think a lot ofpeople feel that way.
So it takes like people likeyou who are courageous enough to
(34:26):
say that out loud, where peoplego.
Oh my gosh, that is so truebecause we're all not that
different, because if they don'thave what we had.
They have something else, youknow, and so it's just about
that connection, thatunderstanding, empathy, like in
love for other women who aregoing before us, standing beside
(34:47):
us, sitting across from us, andjust having this greater
acceptance and understanding of.
They're probably feeling thistoo.
So, it's really okay and I lovethat.
I love that you can show up andand feel authentically yourself
and confident you know, and Ithink every yeah, it's just,
it's great, it's a gift.
It is a gift.
(35:08):
I think it's a genuinely, Ithink it's a huge gift to say I
feel, okay, you know.
I really do so with.
That said, what else can wetouch on with kids and momming?
I think what's important tonote about motherhood and
sobriety is you know, for me Ihad my children later in life.
(35:31):
It was just how it went.
You know, it's just how my lifeunfolded.
So some people may be young andjust trying to get this right
in their twenties.
Some people may be in theirforties and think I waited too
long and I can attest that youdidn't.
You can do it now.
But, like, what would you sayto moms out there who are
struggling with this alcoholismor just anything, anything in
(35:55):
their life that's just holdingthem back from being who they're
supposed to be?
Like, what advice would yougive to them?
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Well, moms who are struggling with alcohol.
I would encourage them to gethelp and if the first place that
they go to isn't the right help, just keep trying.
Fear kept me from getting truehelp for so long, just so
worried about what people aregoing to think and people you
(36:23):
know, like you said, judging meand for my alcoholism that I
stayed sick and alone for such along time.
You know there are, I was, Iwas.
I had preconceived notions ofwhat the 12 step programs were
like, so I didn't want to gothere and I can tell you that,
especially today, there are somany women there that it just it
(36:48):
becomes, you know, like afamily and there's so many of us
that come in and we're like, oh, I don't like women, you know,
and that's, that's our.
I don't like women, I don't wantto be friends with women and I
think I would willing to say ahundred percent of it is because
we're judging the other women.
(37:08):
So of course we think they'rejudging us and, um, you know
past relationships with women,you know we were always fighting
and you know competing againsteach other and I can say without
a shadow of a doubt that inthis program there is no
competition that everybody justhas, wants the best for each
other, and that is such afreeing place to be and like
(37:31):
with if you have young children,to find the meetings where
there are women willing to takeyour kids outside while you do
the meeting or hold the babywhile you're in the meeting and
there's tons of them in our areathat are very child-friendly,
that make it comfortable to gothere with.
Because I would have never havethought that in a million years
I didn't think I could.
Yes, that's so true.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
I remember somebody years ago wanted to go there
with Cause.
I would have never have thoughtthat in a million years I
didn't think I could.
That's so true.
I remember somebody years agowanted to go become an
esthetician.
She wanted to get back into thework world.
Her kids were about eight, nine, whatever, and she's like how
am I going to do this?
And everybody kind of ralliedaround her and said I'll pick up
on Tuesdays, thursdays she wentback to school and that's what
she was.
She became an esthetician andstarted making her own money.
(38:11):
Yeah it's just incredible, theydo really show up show up
because they know.
I mean, they know how difficultit is and they're there for one
another.
And it is so true that peopleshow up and say I'm not.
You know, I don't do well withother women you know, and just
as we've, we've like, just as inthe past, how we kind of lived,
(38:32):
like thinking the lie, was thetruth that when you start to
live in full truth, that becomes, you know, thrown out too,
because there's nothing betterthan sitting in a room full of
women.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Yes, and you know, if you're in a group and they're
judging you, that's just that'snot the right group, it's just
the wrong group.
And and I, if you're in a groupand they're judging you, that's
just that's not the right group.
And I'm grateful that there'svery few wrong groups in our
area.
In my opinion, everywhere I go,I feel welcomed and we're all
there just for the commonsolution to get, to get well and
to be well and to get better.
(39:06):
And if you have kids, we'regoing to, we're going to hold
your babies and we're going tohelp you through that.
You're not.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
That's right.
That's right.
Yeah, that's so true.
So what has been your biggestgift?
Being a mom who has made thatchoice 16 years ago?
Speaker 2 (39:23):
The relationship and the friendship that I have with
my children today, Getting sober.
When you have children and youget sober, I would say most of
us go through a period where theguilt we feel so much guilt
that how do we parent and startcoming up with discipline and
(39:43):
rules and all these things whenwe have so much guilt.
And that was a long journey togo through to come up with the
parenting style that worked, towhere my children respect me.
But we're also very close andwe enjoy being together and they
have shared with me over theyears friends of theirs that
have parents that are activealcoholics and whenever we have
(40:08):
those conversations I am justfilled with such gratitude that
I am a sober mom to them today,because that I would be exactly
who they are school, you know,if you think you can't leave
your kid to go to detox, thinkabout and this was just from
(40:31):
alcohol, it wasn't drugs, it wasjust from alcohol, too many
DUIs and the things that camewith it.
So she's in prison, she'sreally not there for her child
and you know, my kids know thesestories and for them to be able
to come to me and they'll askme why can't their mom get sober
?
That's no.
There's no easy answer.
I can only say the solution isthere, but it's just it's very
(40:53):
hard to find the understanding.
I think that that is thesolution you know, like we
shared about, when we think thatthe alcohol is the solution.
The alcoholism is so strong inour brains that it's so hard to
see that there's another way outthere, Like we say all the time
.
For that, I'm very gratefulthat, for whatever reason, I did
(41:14):
find the way, but there are somany struggling that just can't
find it.
Beyond anything, myrelationship with my children
and the fact that I get to wakeup every morning to be the best
mom I can be because of course Istill screw it up royally often
but whenever I do, I can thinkto myself I've got another
chance tomorrow, Whereas if Iwas still the drunk mom, if I
(41:37):
was alive by this time, theywouldn't want anything to do
with me Rightly so, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
I can recall somebody saying, when I was talking
about my niece and nephew, therewas a woman.
She was speaking about how shewas having this intimate
conversation with her niece andshe said you know, I couldn't
believe it that I was sittingthere having this conversation.
She was talking to me aboutthis thing, these things, and it
wasn't about like the contentof the conversation that struck
(42:05):
her as being like incredible.
It was about the fact that shewas there to have it.
The fact that I was there wasjust such a miracle because of
how she had lived before andshoot.
she was just so overwhelmed withsuch a sense of like, gratitude
and just so grateful for themoment and for her life.
And so, yeah, you talk aboutjust so many things that are so
(42:29):
important and so powerful andsuch an example of hope for
people who are on their way inand trying to make a positive
change.
You know, sitting here with 16years of sobriety, a 26 year
marriage and an incrediblerelationship with both your
children is absolutely amazing.
Do you have any other piece ofhope that you'd like to share
(42:51):
with anyone else listening?
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Well, when I heard that woman share about that the
only thing stronger than amother's love is alcoholism, I
kind of added to that For me,the only thing stronger than a
mother's love is alcoholism.
But the only thing strongerthan alcoholism is God's love,
and it was instilled in me verystrongly and continues to be
that.
It is imperative that I keepseeking and throughout the book
(43:16):
that we read, it constantlytells us that we need to keep
seeking God's will for us andthat He'll solve all my problems
, as long as I'm getting closeto Him and following what he
wants us to do.
And what does he want me to do?
He wants me to help other women.
That has been one of theconsistencies throughout,
whether my kids were in school,out of school, what was going on
(43:37):
in work is.
I have always been helpingwomen throughout these years and
I know that that has kept mesober.
The woman I mentioned that wentto prison.
I can remember being about fiveyears sober and I was getting
busy in life.
Everything was getting busy andshe reached out to me and she'd
had like 15 years sobriety andshe went back out and her life
(44:00):
had become a complete mess veryquickly and I tried to help her
at that time and I knew sostrongly.
God put her in my life right atthis time because I was getting
too busy and I've seen so manywomen that just get too busy and
I've shared this with thembefore is when we're feeling
busy, meetings seem like thelogical thing to stop doing.
(44:24):
I've got way too much time togo to these meetings.
And then there's almost afeeling of relief when we stop
going to them.
It's like I can't stop being amom, I can't stop working, I
can't stop doing all thesethings, but I can choose not to
go to that meeting and then thatjust frees up so much time.
But then I would say 95, 100%of the time fast forward and
(44:45):
alcohol seems like a logicalchoice.
And then they're back out anddrinking again and I think
partly because my kids I hadkids and they were young when I
got sober it's instilled sodeeply in me that it's just a
part of my way of life.
There I wouldn't.
I would no sooner stop going tomeetings and doing my morning
routines than than I would stopeating food and drinking water.
(45:08):
I mean, it's just such a partof me that of course I'm going
to keep doing it and wheneverlife gets too busy I work with
the women around me to figureout how to navigate it.
But it's never an option ofstop doing the things that got
me sober, stop doing the thingsthat get me closer to my higher
power, because for me I knowwithout a shadow of a doubt that
(45:29):
that will take me back out.
And I saw the progression bothat my pregnancies and then also.
I had a year of not drinkingand I drank again.
I saw that progression of thisdisease that I know today that
it would be catastrophic if Ipicked up a drink again and you
(45:50):
know we always say, you knowI've got so much more to lose
today than I did when I came inand the thought of my kids
seeing me drunk oh boy, thatwould break my heart.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
Wow, yeah, that's powerful.
That's good because life doesget busy and you know the
priority that was at thebeginning.
You know minimizes and thenthat is so true.
Everything you just said was sotrue and you can throw that out
because it brings a lot ofrelief, because there's a little
space, but you have to rememberwhat that could truly bring.
(46:26):
And this has been such a greatconversation.
I would love to have you onagain at some other time to talk
about another topic because,with 16 years, and just such an
example to so many women and notonly that, but to your family
and to your children, when youinstall spiritual principles in
your life and an act of serviceand an altruistic life and those
(46:48):
measures I mean like analtruistic life and those
measures, I mean that's whatyou're giving to your kids now.
That example because you liveit day in and day out.
The consistency is incredibleand what a gift and what an
incredible mother, just familymember, wife and member of the
community, where you just reallyuplift so many women in our
(47:09):
community.
Oh, I just feel so blessed toknow you.
I'm so, I'm so grateful for ourfriendship and I'm so glad you
came on the show today.
Thank you so much, thank you.
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