March 21, 2023 • 20 mins
With a new cohort of students being accepted into the Social Work Program and to mark Social Work Week, President Keshen sat down with us to welcome new students to the program. During this conversation we learn about President Keshen's own family's experience collaborating with the support of a Social Worker, his love for Veteran's History and how that lead to his editing books on Social Welfare Policy, as well as what continues to give him hope.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brad Fraser (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the Social Work beginnings
podcast. Social Work Beginningsis a student hosted podcast
engaging with instructors,agencies and members of the
Social Work community in Canada.
As we strive to learn to becomeeffective social workers at the
beginning of our careers, weseek to amplify the ongoing work
to advance social justice inCanada within social work. This
podcast was born out of a desireto equitably increase the
(00:24):
accessibility of opportunity tolearn outside the classroom
about our diverse field.
Our guest today is theUniversity of Regina is eighth
president, President JeffKeshen. Dr. Keshen assumed the
role of President and ViceChancellor on July 1, 2021,
following an almost year-long,rigorous, national search
(00:47):
process. Dr. Keshen holds adoctoral degree from York
University with a researchconcentration in the history of
war and conflict. He is therecipient of the Government of
Ontario, June Callwood Award foroutstanding service in
volunteerism for success withthe establishment of the
University of Ottawa'sexperiential learning service.
Dr. Keshen is the author of fivebooks, more than 25 scholarly
(01:10):
articles and has edited 11books. Dr. Keshen lives in
Regina, with his wife and histwo children.
Thank you for joining us todayPresident Keshen.
President Keshen (01:28):
Thanks so much.
Brad Fraser (01:30):
We had the opportunity to talk about social
work week coming up here. And asyou know, the Faculty of Social
Work lets in a new cohort ofstudents around this time. What
would you say to those newstudents in terms of joining the
University of Regina in theSocial Work program?
President Keshen (01:50):
Well, the first thing I would say is they
have a really bright futuretremendous opportunities, we
hear from government all thetime about how there are
shortages of social workers inall fields across the province.
So that's, that's part of it. Ithink that as well as the
obvious ones about as they enterthe university, my advice is
(02:10):
always to say, as a professor,and as that teacher, and also as
a parent is a balance, you'retrying to do a little bit each
day, come to class, don't putoff stuff, don't procrastinate.
Those are the obvious ones. Butalso, I think that you're
entering a field, which is veryspecial in is it meets a variety
(02:32):
of social needs, many of themvery desperate social needs,
you're gonna be dealing withvery challenging situations, for
all things like addictions andchild welfare. And sometimes the
more unpleasant aspects ofsociety. However, you'll be
helping people with great need,and people sometimes with with
maybe not as much need but stillconsider that they really would
(02:55):
benefit from social worker. Andwhat I mean by that is, a
parents will use social workersto help them deal with difficult
situations we did, as well asparents, I found the social
workers to be tremendous assetsin helping us deal with, with
challenges for our own children,which will be small when you
(03:16):
think about in the grand schemeof things, but their behavioral
issues, and there's so many,many programs that social
workers can get help with. And Iwould just say that I'm hugely
admiring of the of the field,you're amazing professionals.
And I think that you contributeto society. And, and, and folks
who are really going throughvery difficult difficult cases,
difficult circumstances.
Brad Fraser (03:37):
Absolutely. And you touched on the fact that it's a
professional program. And so Iguess in terms of, you know,
just the, you know, of our as awhole, under your leadership,
there has been a focus on thatexperiential learning that
social work has a long historyof in person practicums, both in
the Mini, which is a part timepracticum. And then a full time
that students were going to befinishing tell us a bit more
(03:59):
about that focus, though, as auniversity on giving students
that experiential learning.
President Keshen (04:04):
So I'm from the Arts myself, I'm a
historian. And Social Work,Nursing, Business, all those
areas and many others havepracticums. And it's that
experience within the communitythat not just enriches the
student experience, but makesthem far more career ready on
graduation. So the reason Imentioned that in the Arts is
(04:26):
that we talk about the Arts ashaving transferable skills,
communication skills, writingskills, researching skills, and
then many art students history.
English, often will havedifficulty getting that first
job because they're notspecialized. The impetus when I
got involved in experientiallearning back in the day when I
was at Ottawa, you as anhistorian is connecting students
(04:47):
to do volunteer work onresearchers to get not just
students appreciative of theskills that they can bring in
the way that they can apply themto a variety of different
organizations and companies andall types of abundant
opportunities, but to get thoseemployers a look at the art
students, because, um, they areoften glossed over when it came
time for the graduating whenthey're applying for jobs,
(05:10):
because we know that the bestjob interview is the one that
you see people see youperforming the job in place. So
I always thought about the factthat experiential learning,
which is intrinsic to socialwork, and intrinsic, to so many
areas had to be instilled withinall parts of the university. So
students recognize theapplicability and the wide
(05:32):
applicability of the skills thatthey were carrying, to enrich
their educational experience bygiving themselves that sort of
experience, that sort of thatexperience outside of the
classroom, which is a lot offun, often doing work in
relationship courses and gettingcredit for it. And having
employers look at them in theirability to apply their their
skills in a workplace setting.
(05:54):
So that was how I becameinvolved in it. And it was
really to expand the things thatwe already saw in many faculties
in many disciplines, manyprofessional programs to the
entire university. And I thinkour students will benefit from
them.
Brad Fraser (06:08):
Absolutely. And you talked a little bit about your
kind of background as ahistorian and, you know, we're
gonna put it in the podcastnotes, but I was able to take a
look at some of the books thatyou've edited in regards to
social welfare and policy. Andso I think, you know, for many
of us in social work, weactually take policy classes and
(06:29):
it's sometimes anunderrepresented part of social
work. People think of the workpart of the profession, perhaps
at a micro kind of individualperson to person scale, but
policy has such a huge effect onsocial work, and so many of the
intersections of what we do,where did that interest for you
come from as a part of historyto focus on social welfare in
Canada?
President Keshen (06:50):
I've edited books and social welfare. My
actual focus, now I'm going toconnect the two, is on war and
society. Isn't it interesting,that much of the social policy
in this country, so any socialpolicy has its roots in say 19th
century social gospel, Church,State eventually took a lot of
(07:11):
that activity over. And a lot ofthat was done locally, like
health policy was done locallywas entirely inadequate to meet
the situation. For example ofthe first pandemic after the
First World War. Unemploymentcould not be done by city run
operations where they haddigging ditches, making roads,
things of that nature by pickand shovel. So this is the way
(07:32):
it was done. It was relief worktemporarily, and people would be
provided with the very basics.
It's fascinating under times acrisis, where policy is out of
necessity, teleported forward,major changes in social policy
and where myself and manycolleagues became involved in
it, it the birth of our modernsocial welfare state, from
(07:54):
everything from FamilyAllowances to unemployment
insurance, to a universityeducation that was provided free
comes out of the Second WorldWar in the 1940s. It comes out
of why it's because out of thedepression, people did not want
to go back, their governmentknew that it needed more powers
(08:15):
to do that it got those powersin wartime. And people
remembered what happened afterthe First World War, where
government basically returned tothese status quo Antebellum and
there was a steep postwardownturn, it wasn't going to
happen again. So social policy,the intersections of my work and
war and society comes out ofthat time of crisis, where
(08:38):
government finally does step upand takes more responsibility,
because the public was demandingit at that particular time. The
same thing happened in Englandwith the Beveridge report in
1942. Marsh report follows inCanada in 1943, so the birth of
our social welfare system. Sothat's how I became interested
(08:58):
in it. And then, of course, youtrace the roots which are not in
state, but by other agencies,which took which took the charge
of Social Policy, which wouldhave been in earlier years, some
local governments on ahappenstance basis, and the
church, which eventually has tocome into the area of social
gospel, because in the time thatindustrialization, people were
(09:19):
looking at the faith andthinking, it's not sustaining
us. So the church had to face acrisis itself about if I was
going to show its relevance. Youdon't endure your lot in this
life to get your reward in thenext. You say in the here and
now the social gospel, aboutbuilding the kingdom of heaven
on earth, and that's what I wasin time and place of
industrialization, which makesthe challenge of social policy
(09:41):
going forward. Should it be onlytimes of crisis that brings us
forward to sort of a newparadigm? And, I don't think
we're there at that point toomuch too much has happened. But
there's still some of that, someof that, I think of that of that
dynamic, if you will. So that'swhere it comes from, if your
folks are interested.
Brad Fraser (10:03):
Yes, absolutely.
And, you know, I flagged acouple excerpts that I think our
listeners will find interesting.
And I'm going to read brieflyhere, you were writing
specifically about veterans.
When you said here in 1918, theNational Conference on Canadian
universities had proposed amodest low and grant program to
help veterans enter essentiallythe academia. But Prime Minister
Robert Borden rejected it, whichis what you're I think we're
(10:25):
alluding to in World War One.
But then you then contrast thiswith recounting the time during
and after the Second World War,if I'm following what you said,
or where Ottawa then investedand 53,000 or so veterans, what
I found interesting is you makethe point that is specifically
to provide them the opportunityto receive undergraduate
education and beyond. And sowith that in mind, you have such
(10:48):
a clear historical depth thatmany of us won't have yet and at
this stage in our undergrad,with in regards to policy, so
with that type of excerpt inmind, what does this Canadian
history say about government andinvestment in education? And and
how do you see that in terms oflike a modern lens that we
social workers engage with bothas students then ultimately
(11:10):
engaging in policy in ourworkplaces in the future.
President Keshen (11:13):
So it just on the other point, it is
interesting that those who madethe policies for veterans in the
Second World War, including theFree University education one
year for every year of militaryservice, vocational training,
which was woefully inadequateafter the First World War, but
it was a step forward, becausethe government never been
involved in that Veterans LandAct in the Second World War,
(11:33):
which is far more generous, theFirst World War, all those folks
who made that policy wereveterans of the First World War,
who saw getting adequacies ofthe policies that were
implemented and thedisillusionment that happened
with veterans. And the fact thatthey even became, in some
circumstances a threat to thisto constitute authority, many
vets were on the streets withWinnipeg strikers in the great
general strike of 1919. And theGreat War Veterans Association
(11:57):
had made many, many resolutions,which were highly critical of
government. So it was thearchitects who were, who were
first world war veterans who sawthis policy. I think, that in
this day and age, withinvestments in education, the
education we can speak about, itis certainly providing the the
basis of innovation in oursociety, the basis of a
(12:19):
citizenry, that doesn't fallprey to conspiracy theories, and
there's a lot of value added.
And we have to show the valueadded of higher education. We
also I think, have aresponsibility within education.
And I know that there's a a toand fro of on this in the
political level and also theautonomy of institutions. Do we
have that responsibility toensure that our graduates such
(12:43):
as in professional programs, areconnecting to the opportunities
in our economy? Now, many willsay that, of course, the
university is more than than notjust about it is about
education, to bring people to amore broader and more nuanced
and more sophisticated way ofthought in our society benefits
from that as a whole. Andabsolutely, that's the case. I
think it's also a balance isalso about knowing that a lot of
(13:05):
our students come here to ensurethat they have that opportunity.
I do believe that challengegoing forward for us, and also
for those who fund our educationsystem, it will be what will it
look like? If we're speakingbroadly? And I don't know if
we're answering your questionadequately. But I do believe
that our student body, and andthose who would like to take a
(13:31):
higher education, adultlearners, people in communities
across the provinceinternationally, I believe that
they have different expectationsof what how we're going to
respond to them. For example,The Social Work program has a
provincial mandate, if we backit up 10 years, we would not be
having half our courses onlineremote and social work, because
(13:53):
what you're doing is you'reresponding to a challenge in the
education system, where peoplefor economic reasons for work
life balance reasons they mighthave families, or just because
we have the responsibility,also, of opening up
opportunities across theprovince, we have to deliver
education differently. And whatwe showed during the pandemic is
that is possible. So in terms ofinvestments and working with the
(14:17):
government on this, I do believewe have to be thinking about
because if we don't do it,others will. We have to be
thinking how do we whatmodalities and how do we deliver
that education in a way thatbetter serves the entire gamut
of potential clients, and peoplewho want education when also say
clients, but I also mean by thatis people are taking degrees
(14:40):
differently. Now, microcredentials are not a new thing,
but more people are wanting themsometimes it's to upskill from a
particular job that people aredoing sometimes is to start and
then to stack your differentqualifications up to credits you
build towards degrees. So Ithink the.is going to be the
future of what we want to say iswhat's the The next stage in how
we're going to be educatingpeople. And I think working with
(15:03):
public's with our publicfunders, and working with others
who want to support education.
That I think is where I think wehave great hope, great
opportunity. But it's also goingto take investments, because
provided the infrastructure todo that providing high quality
(15:24):
online courses, that allrequires a significant
investment. So I think thatthat's going to be the one where
we're going to have to work withour province, work with our
provincial government, work withfederal opportunities, because
internationally, we're seeing alot of undertaking that
challenge we don't want to beleft behind.
Brad Fraser (15:42):
Absolutely. And you started to talk about hope
there. And so that follows wellinto the kind of the next
question. And I'm going to quoteyou, and I believe your fellow
editor writing together here,that you said that it, "has been
clear in the past, however, thatCanada's social policy has been
a reflection of the ideology andphilosophy of the times." And so
as you maybe reflect on perhapsa new normal that people are
(16:04):
striving for in a world changedby COVID. And I think earlier,
you kind of pointed to the factthat it's not quite the same
effect as a World War, but ithas had a profound effect on
society. What gives you hope,both professionally, at the
University of Regina, but thenyou mentioned earlier, but And
personally, as a husband, as afather, as a historian, what
gives you hope in moments likenow?
President Keshen (16:27):
I think that what gives me hope is that we
shown the ability to respond as,as an organization, not just
University of Regina, but acrossthe post secondary sector, to
extraordinary circumstance wherewe still imperfect as it was,
and as difficult it was, it wasan disillusioning, sometimes for
(16:47):
those who are taking classes intheir basements and not
interacting, we showed ourability to respond and to
continue and to offer education.
So that gives me hope that givenwhat the demands are, and given
where we see opportunities to beable to connect with students,
who otherwise would not evenconsider post secondary
(17:11):
education, who cannot afford tomove out of their communities,
there will always be a lot offolks who will want to come here
and have that experience onsite. But it gives us
opportunities to expand ourreach. But also it makes it far
more viable for people to stayin their communities, work in
their communities, contribute totheir communities across the
(17:31):
province, and not have to leaveand then and then communities
will also, you know, lose thosefolks as well. I always think
that it's important, there'salways going to be difficulties
don't have any circumstancesalways going to be challenges,
my word, whatever. This is theprofession that that faces that.
But I think that if we show thatwe're trying to work hard to
(17:52):
respond to those opportunities,it gives us great, it gives us
great hope that we're movingforward. The other thing I would
say to social workers that areentering the profession, is for
them also to know and to remindthemselves always that they're
doing very important to nobleand work that is helping to save
people from very difficult andsometimes tragic circumstances
(18:14):
to give them hope, and thedepths of really despair. And
for them to know that they needto take care of themselves, as
well as you're going to bedealing with a lot of very
difficult, heavy and traumaticsituations. So please also be
prepared for yourself, to beable to take it and to always
have hope and to remind yourselfthat the amount of the
(18:36):
difficulties that you're seeing,and imagine the tragedies you're
seeing, you are providing hopefor people who sometimes feel
that the situation is hopeless.
Despair, I don't think is everthe option that we want to go
to.
Brad Fraser (18:50):
That's such a lovely way to end. But I think
it would be important to ask, isthere anything else you'd like
to share with the students thatare listening or perhaps for the
many professionals that aretuning in that are in the throes
of their career, anything elseyou'd like to leave them with?
President Keshen (19:06):
I would like to leave them with this, even
though I mentioned you'reentering a program and a career
that is desperately needed. AndI hope that you'll all remind
yourselves of the wide-number ofpeople that you, really, help.
And as I said before, it's notonly those who are in crisis,
(19:28):
it's those who need advice. Andyour profession provides that
advice, including for us aswell. I think you just are
tremendous, tremendous,profession and tremendous people
for going into it.
Brad Fraser (19:41):
Thank you for your time today. President Keshen
President Keshen (19:42):
Thank you so much.
Brad Fraser (19:44):
This podcast has been brought to you by the
University of Regina Faculty ofSocial Work.
The views Information andopinions expressed in this
podcast do not necessarilyrepresent the views of our
(20:05):
sponsors
Hello and welcome to the Social Work beginnings
podcast. Social Work Beginningsis a student hosted podcast
engaging with instructors,agencies and members of the
Social Work community in Canada.
As we strive to learn to becomeeffective social workers at the
beginning of our careers, weseek to amplify the ongoing work
to advance social justice inCanada within social work. This
podcast was born out of a desireto equitably increase the
(00:24):
accessibility of opportunity tolearn outside the classroom
about our diverse field.
Our guest today is theUniversity of Regina is eighth
president, President JeffKeshen. Dr. Keshen assumed the
role of President and ViceChancellor on July 1, 2021,
following an almost year-long,rigorous, national search
(00:47):
process. Dr. Keshen holds adoctoral degree from York
University with a researchconcentration in the history of
war and conflict. He is therecipient of the Government of
Ontario, June Callwood Award foroutstanding service in
volunteerism for success withthe establishment of the
University of Ottawa'sexperiential learning service.
Dr. Keshen is the author of fivebooks, more than 25 scholarly
(01:10):
articles and has edited 11books. Dr. Keshen lives in
Regina, with his wife and histwo children.
Thank you for joining us todayPresident Keshen.
President Keshen (01:28):
Thanks so much.
Brad Fraser (01:30):
We had the opportunity to talk about social
work week coming up here. And asyou know, the Faculty of Social
Work lets in a new cohort ofstudents around this time. What
would you say to those newstudents in terms of joining the
University of Regina in theSocial Work program?
President Keshen (01:50):
Well, the first thing I would say is they
have a really bright futuretremendous opportunities, we
hear from government all thetime about how there are
shortages of social workers inall fields across the province.
So that's, that's part of it. Ithink that as well as the
obvious ones about as they enterthe university, my advice is
(02:10):
always to say, as a professor,and as that teacher, and also as
a parent is a balance, you'retrying to do a little bit each
day, come to class, don't putoff stuff, don't procrastinate.
Those are the obvious ones. Butalso, I think that you're
entering a field, which is veryspecial in is it meets a variety
(02:32):
of social needs, many of themvery desperate social needs,
you're gonna be dealing withvery challenging situations, for
all things like addictions andchild welfare. And sometimes the
more unpleasant aspects ofsociety. However, you'll be
helping people with great need,and people sometimes with with
maybe not as much need but stillconsider that they really would
(02:55):
benefit from social worker. Andwhat I mean by that is, a
parents will use social workersto help them deal with difficult
situations we did, as well asparents, I found the social
workers to be tremendous assetsin helping us deal with, with
challenges for our own children,which will be small when you
(03:16):
think about in the grand schemeof things, but their behavioral
issues, and there's so many,many programs that social
workers can get help with. And Iwould just say that I'm hugely
admiring of the of the field,you're amazing professionals.
And I think that you contributeto society. And, and, and folks
who are really going throughvery difficult difficult cases,
difficult circumstances.
Brad Fraser (03:37):
Absolutely. And you touched on the fact that it's a
professional program. And so Iguess in terms of, you know,
just the, you know, of our as awhole, under your leadership,
there has been a focus on thatexperiential learning that
social work has a long historyof in person practicums, both in
the Mini, which is a part timepracticum. And then a full time
that students were going to befinishing tell us a bit more
(03:59):
about that focus, though, as auniversity on giving students
that experiential learning.
President Keshen (04:04):
So I'm from the Arts myself, I'm a
historian. And Social Work,Nursing, Business, all those
areas and many others havepracticums. And it's that
experience within the communitythat not just enriches the
student experience, but makesthem far more career ready on
graduation. So the reason Imentioned that in the Arts is
(04:26):
that we talk about the Arts ashaving transferable skills,
communication skills, writingskills, researching skills, and
then many art students history.
English, often will havedifficulty getting that first
job because they're notspecialized. The impetus when I
got involved in experientiallearning back in the day when I
was at Ottawa, you as anhistorian is connecting students
(04:47):
to do volunteer work onresearchers to get not just
students appreciative of theskills that they can bring in
the way that they can apply themto a variety of different
organizations and companies andall types of abundant
opportunities, but to get thoseemployers a look at the art
students, because, um, they areoften glossed over when it came
time for the graduating whenthey're applying for jobs,
(05:10):
because we know that the bestjob interview is the one that
you see people see youperforming the job in place. So
I always thought about the factthat experiential learning,
which is intrinsic to socialwork, and intrinsic, to so many
areas had to be instilled withinall parts of the university. So
students recognize theapplicability and the wide
(05:32):
applicability of the skills thatthey were carrying, to enrich
their educational experience bygiving themselves that sort of
experience, that sort of thatexperience outside of the
classroom, which is a lot offun, often doing work in
relationship courses and gettingcredit for it. And having
employers look at them in theirability to apply their their
skills in a workplace setting.
(05:54):
So that was how I becameinvolved in it. And it was
really to expand the things thatwe already saw in many faculties
in many disciplines, manyprofessional programs to the
entire university. And I thinkour students will benefit from
them.
Brad Fraser (06:08):
Absolutely. And you talked a little bit about your
kind of background as ahistorian and, you know, we're
gonna put it in the podcastnotes, but I was able to take a
look at some of the books thatyou've edited in regards to
social welfare and policy. Andso I think, you know, for many
of us in social work, weactually take policy classes and
(06:29):
it's sometimes anunderrepresented part of social
work. People think of the workpart of the profession, perhaps
at a micro kind of individualperson to person scale, but
policy has such a huge effect onsocial work, and so many of the
intersections of what we do,where did that interest for you
come from as a part of historyto focus on social welfare in
Canada?
President Keshen (06:50):
I've edited books and social welfare. My
actual focus, now I'm going toconnect the two, is on war and
society. Isn't it interesting,that much of the social policy
in this country, so any socialpolicy has its roots in say 19th
century social gospel, Church,State eventually took a lot of
(07:11):
that activity over. And a lot ofthat was done locally, like
health policy was done locallywas entirely inadequate to meet
the situation. For example ofthe first pandemic after the
First World War. Unemploymentcould not be done by city run
operations where they haddigging ditches, making roads,
things of that nature by pickand shovel. So this is the way
(07:32):
it was done. It was relief worktemporarily, and people would be
provided with the very basics.
It's fascinating under times acrisis, where policy is out of
necessity, teleported forward,major changes in social policy
and where myself and manycolleagues became involved in
it, it the birth of our modernsocial welfare state, from
(07:54):
everything from FamilyAllowances to unemployment
insurance, to a universityeducation that was provided free
comes out of the Second WorldWar in the 1940s. It comes out
of why it's because out of thedepression, people did not want
to go back, their governmentknew that it needed more powers
(08:15):
to do that it got those powersin wartime. And people
remembered what happened afterthe First World War, where
government basically returned tothese status quo Antebellum and
there was a steep postwardownturn, it wasn't going to
happen again. So social policy,the intersections of my work and
war and society comes out ofthat time of crisis, where
(08:38):
government finally does step upand takes more responsibility,
because the public was demandingit at that particular time. The
same thing happened in Englandwith the Beveridge report in
1942. Marsh report follows inCanada in 1943, so the birth of
our social welfare system. Sothat's how I became interested
(08:58):
in it. And then, of course, youtrace the roots which are not in
state, but by other agencies,which took which took the charge
of Social Policy, which wouldhave been in earlier years, some
local governments on ahappenstance basis, and the
church, which eventually has tocome into the area of social
gospel, because in the time thatindustrialization, people were
(09:19):
looking at the faith andthinking, it's not sustaining
us. So the church had to face acrisis itself about if I was
going to show its relevance. Youdon't endure your lot in this
life to get your reward in thenext. You say in the here and
now the social gospel, aboutbuilding the kingdom of heaven
on earth, and that's what I wasin time and place of
industrialization, which makesthe challenge of social policy
(09:41):
going forward. Should it be onlytimes of crisis that brings us
forward to sort of a newparadigm? And, I don't think
we're there at that point toomuch too much has happened. But
there's still some of that, someof that, I think of that of that
dynamic, if you will. So that'swhere it comes from, if your
folks are interested.
Brad Fraser (10:03):
Yes, absolutely.
And, you know, I flagged acouple excerpts that I think our
listeners will find interesting.
And I'm going to read brieflyhere, you were writing
specifically about veterans.
When you said here in 1918, theNational Conference on Canadian
universities had proposed amodest low and grant program to
help veterans enter essentiallythe academia. But Prime Minister
Robert Borden rejected it, whichis what you're I think we're
(10:25):
alluding to in World War One.
But then you then contrast thiswith recounting the time during
and after the Second World War,if I'm following what you said,
or where Ottawa then investedand 53,000 or so veterans, what
I found interesting is you makethe point that is specifically
to provide them the opportunityto receive undergraduate
education and beyond. And sowith that in mind, you have such
(10:48):
a clear historical depth thatmany of us won't have yet and at
this stage in our undergrad,with in regards to policy, so
with that type of excerpt inmind, what does this Canadian
history say about government andinvestment in education? And and
how do you see that in terms oflike a modern lens that we
social workers engage with bothas students then ultimately
(11:10):
engaging in policy in ourworkplaces in the future.
President Keshen (11:13):
So it just on the other point, it is
interesting that those who madethe policies for veterans in the
Second World War, including theFree University education one
year for every year of militaryservice, vocational training,
which was woefully inadequateafter the First World War, but
it was a step forward, becausethe government never been
involved in that Veterans LandAct in the Second World War,
(11:33):
which is far more generous, theFirst World War, all those folks
who made that policy wereveterans of the First World War,
who saw getting adequacies ofthe policies that were
implemented and thedisillusionment that happened
with veterans. And the fact thatthey even became, in some
circumstances a threat to thisto constitute authority, many
vets were on the streets withWinnipeg strikers in the great
general strike of 1919. And theGreat War Veterans Association
(11:57):
had made many, many resolutions,which were highly critical of
government. So it was thearchitects who were, who were
first world war veterans who sawthis policy. I think, that in
this day and age, withinvestments in education, the
education we can speak about, itis certainly providing the the
basis of innovation in oursociety, the basis of a
(12:19):
citizenry, that doesn't fallprey to conspiracy theories, and
there's a lot of value added.
And we have to show the valueadded of higher education. We
also I think, have aresponsibility within education.
And I know that there's a a toand fro of on this in the
political level and also theautonomy of institutions. Do we
have that responsibility toensure that our graduates such
(12:43):
as in professional programs, areconnecting to the opportunities
in our economy? Now, many willsay that, of course, the
university is more than than notjust about it is about
education, to bring people to amore broader and more nuanced
and more sophisticated way ofthought in our society benefits
from that as a whole. Andabsolutely, that's the case. I
think it's also a balance isalso about knowing that a lot of
(13:05):
our students come here to ensurethat they have that opportunity.
I do believe that challengegoing forward for us, and also
for those who fund our educationsystem, it will be what will it
look like? If we're speakingbroadly? And I don't know if
we're answering your questionadequately. But I do believe
that our student body, and andthose who would like to take a
(13:31):
higher education, adultlearners, people in communities
across the provinceinternationally, I believe that
they have different expectationsof what how we're going to
respond to them. For example,The Social Work program has a
provincial mandate, if we backit up 10 years, we would not be
having half our courses onlineremote and social work, because
(13:53):
what you're doing is you'reresponding to a challenge in the
education system, where peoplefor economic reasons for work
life balance reasons they mighthave families, or just because
we have the responsibility,also, of opening up
opportunities across theprovince, we have to deliver
education differently. And whatwe showed during the pandemic is
that is possible. So in terms ofinvestments and working with the
(14:17):
government on this, I do believewe have to be thinking about
because if we don't do it,others will. We have to be
thinking how do we whatmodalities and how do we deliver
that education in a way thatbetter serves the entire gamut
of potential clients, and peoplewho want education when also say
clients, but I also mean by thatis people are taking degrees
(14:40):
differently. Now, microcredentials are not a new thing,
but more people are wanting themsometimes it's to upskill from a
particular job that people aredoing sometimes is to start and
then to stack your differentqualifications up to credits you
build towards degrees. So Ithink the.is going to be the
future of what we want to say iswhat's the The next stage in how
we're going to be educatingpeople. And I think working with
(15:03):
public's with our publicfunders, and working with others
who want to support education.
That I think is where I think wehave great hope, great
opportunity. But it's also goingto take investments, because
provided the infrastructure todo that providing high quality
(15:24):
online courses, that allrequires a significant
investment. So I think thatthat's going to be the one where
we're going to have to work withour province, work with our
provincial government, work withfederal opportunities, because
internationally, we're seeing alot of undertaking that
challenge we don't want to beleft behind.
Brad Fraser (15:42):
Absolutely. And you started to talk about hope
there. And so that follows wellinto the kind of the next
question. And I'm going to quoteyou, and I believe your fellow
editor writing together here,that you said that it, "has been
clear in the past, however, thatCanada's social policy has been
a reflection of the ideology andphilosophy of the times." And so
as you maybe reflect on perhapsa new normal that people are
(16:04):
striving for in a world changedby COVID. And I think earlier,
you kind of pointed to the factthat it's not quite the same
effect as a World War, but ithas had a profound effect on
society. What gives you hope,both professionally, at the
University of Regina, but thenyou mentioned earlier, but And
personally, as a husband, as afather, as a historian, what
gives you hope in moments likenow?
President Keshen (16:27):
I think that what gives me hope is that we
shown the ability to respond as,as an organization, not just
University of Regina, but acrossthe post secondary sector, to
extraordinary circumstance wherewe still imperfect as it was,
and as difficult it was, it wasan disillusioning, sometimes for
(16:47):
those who are taking classes intheir basements and not
interacting, we showed ourability to respond and to
continue and to offer education.
So that gives me hope that givenwhat the demands are, and given
where we see opportunities to beable to connect with students,
who otherwise would not evenconsider post secondary
(17:11):
education, who cannot afford tomove out of their communities,
there will always be a lot offolks who will want to come here
and have that experience onsite. But it gives us
opportunities to expand ourreach. But also it makes it far
more viable for people to stayin their communities, work in
their communities, contribute totheir communities across the
(17:31):
province, and not have to leaveand then and then communities
will also, you know, lose thosefolks as well. I always think
that it's important, there'salways going to be difficulties
don't have any circumstancesalways going to be challenges,
my word, whatever. This is theprofession that that faces that.
But I think that if we show thatwe're trying to work hard to
(17:52):
respond to those opportunities,it gives us great, it gives us
great hope that we're movingforward. The other thing I would
say to social workers that areentering the profession, is for
them also to know and to remindthemselves always that they're
doing very important to nobleand work that is helping to save
people from very difficult andsometimes tragic circumstances
(18:14):
to give them hope, and thedepths of really despair. And
for them to know that they needto take care of themselves, as
well as you're going to bedealing with a lot of very
difficult, heavy and traumaticsituations. So please also be
prepared for yourself, to beable to take it and to always
have hope and to remind yourselfthat the amount of the
(18:36):
difficulties that you're seeing,and imagine the tragedies you're
seeing, you are providing hopefor people who sometimes feel
that the situation is hopeless.
Despair, I don't think is everthe option that we want to go
to.
Brad Fraser (18:50):
That's such a lovely way to end. But I think
it would be important to ask, isthere anything else you'd like
to share with the students thatare listening or perhaps for the
many professionals that aretuning in that are in the throes
of their career, anything elseyou'd like to leave them with?
President Keshen (19:06):
I would like to leave them with this, even
though I mentioned you'reentering a program and a career
that is desperately needed. AndI hope that you'll all remind
yourselves of the wide-number ofpeople that you, really, help.
And as I said before, it's notonly those who are in crisis,
(19:28):
it's those who need advice. Andyour profession provides that
advice, including for us aswell. I think you just are
tremendous, tremendous,profession and tremendous people
for going into it.
Brad Fraser (19:41):
Thank you for your time today. President Keshen
President Keshen (19:42):
Thank you so much.
Brad Fraser (19:44):
This podcast has been brought to you by the
University of Regina Faculty ofSocial Work.
The views Information andopinions expressed in this
podcast do not necessarilyrepresent the views of our
(20:05):
sponsors
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