Social Work and Private Practice looks different across different provinces in Canada. Today we sit down to chat with the Saskatchewan Association of Social Work's Executive Director Karen Wasylenka and Member Support, Co-ordinator, and Advocacy, Jenna Hesse.
For the show notes and links to all the resources, please go to: https://www.swss.ca/2023/03/25/social-work-beginnings-podcast-episode-4/
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Episode Transcript
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Brad Fraser (00:00):
Hello and welcome to the Social Work Beginnings
(00:01):
podcast. Social Work Beginningsis a student hosted podcast
engaging with instructors,agencies and members of the
Social Work community in Canada.
As we strive to learn to becomeeffective social workers at the
beginning of our careers, weseek to amplify the ongoing work
to advance social justice inCanada within social work. This
podcast was born out of a desireto equitably increase the
(00:23):
accessibility of opportunity tolearn outside the classroom
about our diverse field.
Next on the Social WorkBeginnings podcast as we focus
on Social Work Week, we have aspecial two part episode on
Social Work and Private Practicein Saskatchewan. In part one,
our guests are Karen Wasylenkaand Jenna Hesse.
(00:45):
Karen is a registered SocialWorker with a Master's degree in
Social Work from the Universityof Regina. Karen worked for 30
years in the Ministry of SocialServices, primarily in Child and
Family Services in a variety ofroles across the southern part
of the province. Karen has beenthe executive director of SASW
since 2016, and has been asessional lecturer with the
University of Regina, Faculty ofSocial Work since 2006. Jenna is
(01:09):
a registered Social Worker witha Master's degree in social
work, also from the Universityof Regina. Jenna has worked at
the Ministry of Social Servicesin the area of child protection,
as a clinical caseworker atRanch Ehrlo Society, and is
currently a contract counselorat Ehrlo counseling services.
Jenna has over 10 years ofexperience providing counseling
services to children, youth,adults, families and group
(01:32):
settings. In June 2022, Jennastarted with SASW in the role of
member support, coordinator, andadvocacy. This has allowed Jenna
to connect and support socialworkers who are engaged in
various areas of practice, andassist those who volunteer with
SASW.
Thank you for both of you beinghere today. Karen, it was
(01:54):
awesome to chat with you on thephone a little bit beforehand.
And I got pretty excited aboutyou being here.
Karen Wasylenka (02:01):
Well, thank you so much for the invitation to
participate in this.
Brad Fraser (02:05):
Yeah, you're very welcome. And Jenna, I'm excited
to get to know a little bitabout your perspective as well.
Jenna Hesse (02:10):
I'm excited to be here. I'm a huge fan of
podcasts. So I think this is agreat medium to share with
students. So awesome.
Brad Fraser (02:17):
Yeah, thank you. So when students get together to
kind of brainstorm (02:20):
"hey, what can we do on the podcast?" where
there's some things that we'dwant to know about, private
practice is one of those thingsthat keeps coming up. I'm not
sure if it was maybe thepandemic, or maybe it's just
this ongoing thread of beinginterested in how we can help
deliver mental health servicesin whatever way, private
practice keeps coming up. Soinitially, Karen, could you
maybe talk about, a bit aboutmaybe, what does it take to
(02:43):
deliver therapy in Saskatchewanas a Registered Social Worker.
Karen Wasylenka (02:47):
So as a Registered Social Worker, many
Social Workers are working foran agency, and maybe doing in
depth counseling or clinicalwork, which would come under the
umbrella of therapy. You know,the word therapy is a pretty
broad word, what does it, whatdoes it mean? What is clinical
(03:09):
social work and so on, in thosecircumstances, when working in
an agency or with, you know, theHealth Authority or another
agency, the training and therequirements for doing that work
are set by the employer. So itis the role of the employer to
(03:31):
determine, you know, what is itthat I need in terms of training
to take on this particular role?
SASW as the licensing body forsocial workers doesn't set
standards around, you know, whatis the requirement in terms of
specific education to do thattype of work?
Brad Fraser (03:57):
Okay, yeah. And I think that's one of the
interesting things that comesout of, you know, for students
is we're sitting in theclassroom and we're thinking of,
okay, what's that next step iswe complicate and then look to
register it? What does that looklike? Are we because we're, if
we're going to end up indifferent places, from an
employment standpoint, it soundslike you're saying, Karen, that
actually the requirements may bedifferent for training based off
(04:17):
that employer.
Karen Wasylenka (04:19):
Well, our our social work program at the
University of Regina prepares usfor generalist practice. And a
generalist practice is a greatthing because it means that we
can go into a wide range ofareas to work in, but in most of
(04:39):
the jobs that one goes into,there's always additional
training and very specificlearnings that are required for
that particular role. As anexample, I spent many years in
the child protection system andcoming out of you know, the BSW
(04:59):
program I certainly didn't know,all that was required of doing
child protection work. I learnedthat on the job.The employer
provided that training for me.
And so you know, that's that'swhat happens in, you know, in
the world of social work.
Brad Fraser (05:16):
Right, yeah, absolutely. Now, Jenna, you were
telling me before we hit recordthat you are doing some, was it
contract work specifically?
Jenna Hesse (05:24):
Yes. So after I received my Master's in Social
Work degree, from the U of R, Iwas a clinical caseworker at
Ranch Ehrlo Society for about 10years. After that, I decided to
work part-time and move into acontract role at Ehrlo
Counseling. So that way Iprovide individual family and
(05:46):
group counseling in that privatekind of setting to members of
the community.
Brad Fraser (05:53):
Okay, yeah. So it sounds like there's a bit of a
journey along the way, nodifferent than care and have,
you're just stacking additionalopportunities to build that
education, build that capacity,and kind of grow along to the
point where you started to dothat contract work?
Jenna Hesse (06:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
Part of my role at Ranch Ehrlo,previously, as a clinical
caseworker was that clinicalpiece where I was providing
counseling, but then moving intoEhrlo counseling, that's
strictly my role is just acounseling position now.
Brad Fraser (06:20):
Okay, for sure. And when we were talking a little
bit as students, when I wasasking a few of them, hey, like,
what do you think about privatepractice? What do you know about
it? Honestly, that there waslike, a lot of blank
expressions. And it was me too,before I started to do the
research. And so do you either,if you have some thoughts, and
they'll start with you, Karen onlike, if you go into private
(06:42):
practice, where it's really you,just you it's you're not working
for someone else, like Jen is,is a contractor, you're opening
your own private practice, whatmight change?
Karen Wasylenka (06:53):
Well, I think there's a, there's a lot of a
lot of changes. And I want tobegin by saying that we
certainly have seen a rise inthe number of social workers who
are going into private practice.
And some of that comes as aresult of the pandemic. Because
we worked from home, we learnedto deliver services in a new way
(07:14):
using technology. And it openedthe door or opened our eyes a
little bit, maybe, to what somepossibilities are. And it can be
attractive, we can set our ownhours, we can work out of our
home, or we can have our office,we don't have to report into,
(07:35):
you know, a boss or go throughgovernment bureaucracy in terms
of, you know, all the thingsthat we might have to do,
working in a large agency. Andthat, you know, that does
appeared and is certainly abenefit for someone who's
contemplating private practice,getting to choose who we work
(07:57):
with, when you're in privatepractice, you, you know, offer
your services, and you canchoose your who uses your
services, you can choose whatservices you do provide and what
areas you work within. Butthere's another side to private
practice that sometimes we don'tthink about at the very
(08:18):
beginning. Because when you'rein private practice, you are
self employed, you're in abusiness, you're also running a
business. And when you run abusiness, there are many things
that you need to think about.
What you know, there's the wholeidea, not the idea, but the fact
(08:40):
that you need to establish fees.
That's where your income comesfrom. It's not an employer
paycheck, you charge yourservice users a fee. And what is
that? How do you establish thefeet? And so then you have to
worry about all of the thingslike income tax and benefits.
(09:01):
And what about pension? Do youwork out of your own home? What
about office space? How do youkeep your records? How are your
records kept, so that they'reconfidential, what happens to
your records, if you leaveprivate practice? There are
many, many, you know, of thosebusiness aspects that become
(09:22):
really complicated. And associal workers, you know, we
haven't been trained to thinkthat way. We've been trained on
how to work with people, butoften not how to think about the
business aspect, needing to haveliability insurance and have all
of the insurance, thingscovered. It. It's pretty
(09:44):
extensive in terms of that wholebusiness side. And it is really,
really important. Anotherconsideration is that when we're
working in an agency, we havecolleagues around us. And we
have supervisors. And we havemanagers. And so when we come up
against a problem, or, or maybea situation that we're not sure
(10:08):
what we should do, you know, yougo to your coworker, you talk to
your supervisor, you get someadvice, you look at your agency
policy, what do I need to orwhat should I do, and you have
that support around you, whenyou're in private practice, it's
not there automatically, youhave to set that up on on your
(10:30):
own. And under the SASW,standards of practice, social
workers need to havesupervision, we have to have
supervision, which keeps us ontrack to make sure that we are
acting ethically, and notengaged in relationships that we
shouldn't be, or that we'redoing something that might be
(10:53):
considered misconduct. So inprivate practice, one needs to
find a supervisor. And sometimesthat means paying for that
supervision, having a networkaround so that you can, you
know, bounce ideas off in aconfidential way, of course. And
so some of those things, youknow, are not what we encounter
(11:17):
in working in a other agency,other community agency, or
private or public agency, ratheror public, private agency, I
suppose. But when you're alonein private practice, you have to
set all of those things. So wasthere anything you would add to
(11:38):
that?
Jenna Hesse (11:40):
No, I think you answered that beautifully. I
think the main point, too, thatyou ended on was that consult, I
think that when you are in acounseling setting, and in
private practice, you never knowwhere that conversation is going
to steer, you might bet and dothe intake process, thinking you
know what you're walking into,but you never really do. So if
(12:00):
you in those situations, youneed that consult, you need to
be able to kind of bounce thoseideas off experts and people
with different backgrounds andareas of expertise. So I think
that's really important to saythat you you need to have that
consult piece is very importantfor for the best interest of
your client, I think there'sthat safety piece to that you
(12:20):
need to think of, you know,like, we're dealing with
delicate situations with clientsthat are maybe in really
difficult places in their life.
And so really monitoring yoursafety and how you're going to
set up your private practicewould be would be important to
notice, well.
Brad Fraser (12:38):
It's interesting, as you both talk about these
lists of things, because a lotof these, I guess, resources and
steps, for example, supervision,these different policies, a lot
of these are kind ofautomatically in place as
students are going into, forexample, practicum placements,
you're learning about a policyare automatically given
supervision, these are allthings that not that we take it
(13:00):
for granted the students, but Ithink that structure is already
there. And so walking into thatstructure, sets us up for
success and sets the people thatwe're going to be working with
that for that same success. Andso what I hear both of you
talking about is that privatepractice is this amazing
opportunity to focus onparticular service users and
working in a very specific way.
But it involves a lot ofcreation of structure that's
(13:22):
well beyond just the workingwith the actual individual. If
you had, for example, done this,perhaps in a previous role.
Karen Wasylenka (13:32):
I think too, it, it requires having
considerable experience andskill in a particular area. You
know, private practitionersusually have a specific area
that they that they work withinand specific services that they
(13:54):
that they deliver. And as asJenna talked about, you know,
kind of being alone and nothaving that support network
around you. It requires havingexperience and confidence that
you can do, handle I guess, whatcomes your way. Absolutely. You
(14:18):
may need to console consult withsomeone or may need to, you
know, get some supervision andadvice, but you have that, that
confidence that you've got lotsof experience behind you. And
that will help you in your work.
Doing private practice.
Brad Fraser (14:37):
Yeah, absolutely.
And that specialization, youknow, when I think about what
you said earlier, Karen aboutthat generalized social work
degree that the University ofRegina provides, are there
specific things that whether itis the SASW or both of you, as
registered social workers, thinkabout in terms of what can you
do after your Bachelor of SocialWork to kind of move beyond
(14:59):
that, to build up thoseexperiences.
Karen Wasylenka (15:04):
First of all, if you're a registered social
worker in Saskatchewan, in orderto renew your license every
year, you need to have 40 hoursof continuing professional
development. So we need to do 40hours of education every year,
(15:25):
in order to keep up our skillsand keep current with new
information and new techniquesand so on. Those who are in
private practice usually havesome additional courses or
certifications, additional veryspecialized training that
(15:46):
they've gained through aparticular institution or
particular deliverer of that,that type of training. And, you
know, have that certificationthat they are competent and
skilled in providing thatservice and and using that
treatment modality.
Jenna Hesse (16:07):
I think when you enter into private practice or
the counseling field, you reallywant to ask yourself, like,
Where does your expertise lie?
And what services are youqualified to be providing to
your clients. And when you'relooking for continuing education
opportunities, you really wantto ask yourself, Do I want to
specialize in a specific area ora specific clientele. That way,
you can really guide your paththat way. So if that's looking
(16:30):
into additional trainings, suchas CBT, cognitive behavioral
therapy, or motivationalinterviewing, or even are in
play therapy, expertise,certificates, things like that,
I know that that SASW provides alot of opportunity for
continuing education. On ourwebsite, there's different links
that can connect you to thingsin the community for specialized
(16:52):
training, if that's somethingyou're interested in, or such as
trauma or depression, anxiety,things like that, or what's new
for SASW is we've startedsomething called the speaker
series. So approximately eachmonth, we're trying to do it
monthly, we have variousspeakers that come on and share
(17:13):
different information. And it'sa free opportunity for
registered social workers toattend. Usually, it's been over
a lunch and learn but thingsthat I'm planning in the future
might be in the evening, thingslike that. But it's to provide
the opportunity to gather moreinformation and really grow and
learn and build our practice inan extensive way.
Karen Wasylenka (17:38):
I just might add on to that, as well, as a
registered social worker inSaskatchewan, we are a member of
the Canadian Association ofSocial Workers, which is the
Federation of Associationsacross Canada, it's a national
organization. And the CanadianAssociation of Social Workers
(18:00):
does a large number of webinars.
And some of them are veryspecific to areas of practice.
And so there are lots oflearning opportunities that are
provided through registrationwith SASW.
Jenna Hesse (18:21):
Just to add to that, sorry, too Karen, with the
CASW I forgot to add to was thatthey do have that Private
Practice Portal on there aswell. So if you're interested in
private practice, you can gointo their portal, and they have
a ton of different guides. Soeven with continuing education,
if you were looking at if youwant to really define your
private practice, they do have achecklist so that you can go off
(18:45):
and check your specializationsto kind of like really guide you
of what you're interested in, orwhere you can learn and grow. So
they have a lot of differenttools on there that are useful.
Karen Wasylenka (18:54):
Yes.
Brad Fraser (18:55):
No, that's awesome.
And we can link to all of thosein the podcast notes. So for the
listeners wanting to check eachof those out, be sure to check
the podcast notes in the webpage. Now, you've talked about
registered social workers havingaccess to that my understanding
is students that register aswell would also then have access
to some of these opportunities,depending on the scope of what's
being delivered.
Karen Wasylenka (19:17):
Yes, certainly, students who are members of SASW
absolutely do have access tothese resources.
Brad Fraser (19:24):
Awesome. No, that's great. I know, that's one of the
things that as students you'realways trying to think about,
okay, I'm learning about this inthe classroom. I'm learning
about this in the field. But nowwhat does it look like to really
kind of dive deep on maybe oneof these specific things and
webinars are such an accessibleway for students to try and
quickly fit that into whateveris a busy schedules. And so I
think that's absolutely amazing.
Is there any webinar, I'm goingto put you both on the spot,
(19:47):
that you've experienced the lastcouple of years that stands out
to you that you get reallyexcited about or maybe one
that's upcoming really soon?
Karen Wasylenka (20:01):
One that really stands out to me. And my
apologies, I don't recall thename of it, but it was one on
working in indigenouscommunities.
There has been a number ofwebinars related to
reconciliation and so on. Andsome of them are, well they are
(20:25):
all excellent. Absolutely.
They're all excellent. But oneone really did stand out to me,
but sorry, I can't remember thename of it. But there there are
lots there.
Jenna Hesse (20:38):
Yeah, I think things that have stood out to me
in the past are things abouttrauma and about, like I
specialized in CBT. So thingslike that. But in regards to
accessibility for students, forwebinars, and things like that,
with our speaker series, wherewe're posting them on our
website, as well. So we just hadsomebody come in and discuss
(20:58):
into intimate personal violence.
Coming up, we do have theSaskatchewan Acquired Brain
Injury Association presenting,or we do have, I'm in talks with
arranging roundtable discussionto talk about boundaries and
ethics in small communities,things that are just different
interests and different concernsthat you may come across in
(21:18):
various areas of social work,because I know that's why I love
social work so much is that it'sso broad, there's so many
different ways in things thatyou can get into. But yeah, we
make sure we cover our bases bydoing various topics. So yeah,
they should definitely check outthe Facebook page, as well as
our website that we're postingthem on there as well.
Karen Wasylenka (21:40):
I'd like to to go back to resources through the
Canadian Association of SocialWorkers, for students, because
you can set up an account amember account on the CASW
website, which gives you accessto additional information that
isn't on the general website.
And there are a couple of thingsthere related to journal
(22:05):
articles and research thatstudents of course, when writing
papers are always looking for.
The other thing that's on theCASW website that's publicly
available are their positionpapers, and discussion papers on
(22:25):
various social issues, again,for students who might be
writing papers, or for socialworkers who add students who are
engaged in advocacy work. Very,very helpful background
information that is available towork to anyone.
Brad Fraser (22:45):
Oh, absolutely, we'll make sure all of that is
available for students to checkout. And I want to kind of dive
in a little bit more to theseprofessional development
opportunities. And what thatlooks like when you consider an
MSW. Now, Jenna, it's myunderstanding you pursued an MSW
at the University of Regina.
Jenna Hesse (23:06):
Yes, I did. I knew that I wanted to continue. I
loved going to university. Ilove learning and growing. And I
knew that was definitely a stepI wanted to take. So a few years
after completing my BSW, I knewI wanted to begin my MSW. When I
entered in, I actually startedas in the thesis route, thinking
that I wanted to do researchcoming from working at the
(23:28):
Ministry of Social Services, thefoster care system was something
that was greatly on my mind. Butgetting into working at Ranch
Ehrlo in the role of a clinicalcounselor, I do that counseling,
I did that counseling piece. SoI really changed my avenue to do
a practicum route. And I knew Iwanted to focus on clinical
counseling in that. So whendoing the Masters of Social Work
(23:52):
program, there is thestandardized classes that you're
required to take, if that'sretired, or things like that.
However, there was theopportunity to take electives.
And I made sure to pick minewisely. I remember taking a very
intensive ICBT course withNuelle (Dr. Novik) that was very
intensive and really drew meinto specializing in CBT. And
(24:14):
knowing that I really want us todo that counseling route. So I
know that the the University ofRegina has the two, two routes,
you can do the practicum orresearch but I definitely once
in there kind of figured it outand really found my identity of
who I wanted to be as a socialworker.
Brad Fraser (24:32):
Wow, yeah, and you know, Karen, when we've talked
in the past, you've talked abouthow, when you're just looking at
the CASW, they're not actuallyenforcing the regulations, that
is province dependent and so forour students that are looking
at, you know, maybe they're noteven from Saskatchewan, but
they're attending the U of R andthen they're gonna go back to
another province. Everythingwe're talking about today is
(24:53):
very SASW Saskatchewan specificbecause in a different province,
the requirements might becompletely different.
Karen Wasylenka (25:00):
That's correct.
The Canadian Association ofSocial Workers, as I mentioned,
is a national federation ofassociations of social workers.
Each province has legislationthat establishes the Social Work
body to govern the practice ofsocial work or the title of
(25:22):
social work in each province. Soevery province has somewhat
different legislation andpolicies. So they have different
requirements for registration,different requirements for
continuing professionaleducation.
Most you know, they're somewhatsimilar, but they are, they are,
(25:44):
you know, different. One of thethings that we've realized over
the last couple of years, again,related to the increased use of
technology, private practice, isthat social workers, of course,
are practicing acrossjurisdictions. And this has
really raised the questionsabout so if I'm registered
(26:07):
social worker in Saskatchewan,can I provide services to
someone in Alberta over overzoom. And the answer to that is
that you need to go to theAlberta College of Social
Workers, and find out what theirrequirements are because you are
(26:28):
providing services to someonewho's in Alberta, and so come
under their, their jurisdiction.
So every province is a littlebit different. And each province
has their own separate standardsof practice. In Saskatchewan,
registered social workers followthe code of ethics and the
(26:48):
guidelines for ethical practice,that are, have been developed by
the Canadian Association ofSocial Workers. And then we have
standards of practice forregistered social workers in
Saskatchewan. And there are moredetails. They are specific to
Saskatchewan, and correspond tothe code of ethics and the
(27:12):
guidelines for practice, butthey are very specific to our
province.
Brad Fraser (27:18):
And so I know, in some other provinces, a Masters
of Social Work is actually kindof the minimum to do private
practice. And that's the case insome provinces. But today, I
know you've said that's not thecase versus Saskatchewan. Do you
ever see that changing sometimein the future?
Karen Wasylenka (27:36):
There certainly has been lots of discussion.
And, you know, recently, but butalso in the past about what
should the requirements so besafe for private practice. And
the you know, the CanadianAssociation of Social Workers
may provide information on bestpractices. But again, the the
(27:59):
regulation and standards restswith each provincial
jurisdiction. So inSaskatchewan, we don't have any
standards that say that you haveto have a MSW to do private
practice. We do in ourstandards, though, say that in
whatever services you'reproviding, you need to be
(28:21):
skilled and competent, and havethis training to to provide
that, that service. So you know,that's, that's what our
standards say, you know, we havelots of discussions about should
there be, you know, should therebe more standards or not? And,
(28:42):
and I'm sure those discussionswill will continue for for some
time.
Brad Fraser (28:48):
Absolutely. And I know, Jenna, you were just
telling us about how you chosesome opportunities with your
electives, specifically in yourMSW that perhaps steered you
even more towards particulartechniques and things you use
now?
Jenna Hesse (29:01):
Absolutely, you can definitely pick your electives
to really fit what you wouldlike to do your areas of
interest. Another big piece isthat practicum piece because to
have that level of supervisionand guidance in your your,
that's very rare to get thatwhen you starting a job, you
know, so to start my counselingjourney, by having a
(29:24):
practitioner sit in with me, orvideotape them and monitor them
after, and go through them allwith me was a huge opportunity.
And I cannot imagine practicingwithout that experience.
Brad Fraser (29:37):
Absolutely. I know whenever I've talked to people
that are currently in the fielddoing the type of work that
you're doing. It's amazing howmuch we keep coming back to the
topics that come up today aboutongoing professional
development, the certification,they need to have very
specialized experience becausewhen people are seeking out
someone in private practice,there's this, I would argue,
maybe added additionalexpectation of that
(29:57):
specialization that you're goingto have that capacity. And so
that's whether that's throughyou individually, or perhaps the
person that supervising you, Isee it as something that we can
ultimately make sure that we'reproviding for the people seeking
the service. And as you've said,Karen, there's always that
backstop that as social workers,we're holding that value of
competency. How do we make surethat that is happening? First
(30:18):
and foremost, no matter where wesit BSW, MSW, Doctorate, it
doesn't ultimately matter onthat spectrum, we're maintaining
that code of ethics, regardlessof where we are.
Karen Wasylenka (30:29):
I think that's important to consider this and
think about it from theperspective of those who are
accessing services and usingservices. I think that's really
important that we we don't losesight of that, under the social
workers act, SASW has a duty toprotect the public interest. And
(30:51):
we do that by setting therequirements for registration,
the requirements for annualrenewals of licenses, our
requirements for continuingprofessional development, and as
well having a process to respondto complaints of unethical
(31:11):
behavior or misconduct by socialworkers. So that the public has
some recourse if a social workerisn't competent, or has been
doing something that is, or maybe unethical, that is a duty
that SASW has. And so we have toalso keep that in our in our
(31:33):
minds, there's there's reasonsfor ensuring that registered
social workers have thecompetencies and skills to do
what they are providing.
Brad Fraser (31:48):
Absolutely, I know, that's the thing that gets me
excited about being a BSWstudent is there's that
opportunity to immediately be apart of a profession upon
graduating. That's not somethingyou get with every undergrad,
you know, a university degree,you can have a lot of interests,
and you can do that bachelordegree, but the opportunity to
enter into something that givesyou such an opportunity for
(32:08):
continued learning, but in animmediate standard that the
public can trust, and that youcan then learn your way, as part
of that community of socialworkers is something that I
think is such an excitingopportunity not just for
students to join, butultimately, as you've said,
Karen, for the public to be ableto trust is there as a whole,
not just for that one individualwho has that registered social
(32:31):
worker accreditation. Is thereanything either of you would
like to talk about that wehaven't talked about so far?
Jenna Hesse (32:37):
I don't think so. I think that you really covered a
lot of areas that that ourdiscussion points when
discussing private practice, Ithink that was an area that is
much needed. Our community needsclinicians to help when working
through mental health issues ordifficult times in our life. But
it's something that it should bediscussed and have caution with
(33:00):
proceeding because it is we'reworking with people that are
vulnerable, and are expectingpeople to act in a professional
way and support them throughthese difficult times. So I
think it's a great discussion tohave. And I think that we're so
lucky to be a part of the fieldof social work to help these
individuals.
Brad Fraser (33:18):
Absolutely. And Karen, perhaps I saw light bulb
there.
Karen Wasylenka (33:22):
You did, you did. One of the other benefits
of being a licensed socialworker or registered social
worker in Saskatchewan, when wewere talking about private
practice, and needing to havesupervision and consultation. We
have a practice ethics committeethat will respond to inquiries
(33:51):
or requests for consultationfrom any registered social
worker, whether they are inprivate practice or not, when
they have an ethical dilemmathat they you know, are really
challenged by in terms of how toresolve and may have, you know,
you may have consulted with asupervisor or colleague, but you
(34:12):
still have the ethical dilemmaand want to maybe get some
additional guidance. And ourpractice Ethics Committee, which
is made up of members of SASWwith lots of experience will
respond to those ethicalinquiries or or consults.
Sometimes we get inquiries inthe office members who call to
(34:34):
the office and say, I'm justwondering about this or, you
know, what does our staff whatdo our standards say about this?
And so it is a benefit of havingsome of that support in terms of
practice to our members.
Brad Fraser (34:50):
Absolutely, no, that's I think something is
students. You can get so caughtup in the next essay to write,
in the next critical reflection,continuing to navigate how
you're on social locationeffects, all of these very
important things to think about.
And it can be easy to, maybeperhaps forget, that there's
this whole community of peoplethat have done exactly what
(35:10):
you're doing, and have gonethrough that very, atleast
similar, journey. And that youcan enter into that knowing that
you have people to partner with,and that you're never really
alone in that. So I guess I'lljust finish there, Jenna, when
when you were thinking aboutgetting into social work, and we
were thinking about, maybe like,why social work? Is there
(35:31):
anything that comes to mind whenyou're like, Yeah, this is what
like, was my why and continuesto be your why today.
Jenna Hesse (35:39):
I think at the end of the day, I entered into
social work to help people andknew that I had an interest of
connecting with various peoplein different communities,
different backgrounds. And Ithink at the end of the day, I
just wanted to help and serveand do better, you know, and so
I think that yeah, absolutely. Ijust wanted to help people.
Brad Fraser (36:02):
And I want to pull a little bit more on that,
though, because I think when yousay help people, it's really
cool to see if how, like, aswe've talked to you today,
there's all these different waysthat you were helping people,
right, like it was never onestatic thing. And I think that's
something that if you couldmaybe just quickly expand on
about how that help has lookeddifferent throughout your career
so far. And then now workingwith SASW, to actually help
(36:26):
fellow members?
Jenna Hesse (36:28):
Absolutely. I think I entered into social work, like
right out of high school,knowing that I just wanted to
help people. That's my area ofinterest, for sure. But as I
developed and learned more, Idecided that an area of interest
was really like adolescents andyouth working at the Ministry of
Social Services, like I said,seeing the foster care system.
(36:48):
And then entering into my workat Ranch Ehrlo definitely
working with, with adolescentsand youth who have challenging
backgrounds, and trauma, reallyhelping them and guiding them
having that stable person intheir life being able to help
them throughout these difficulttimes. And then, as I continued
throughout my career, it wasthat underlying that I wanted to
(37:10):
help people. And that's why whenI saw that, a position SASW came
up, I thought that was acompletely different area. And
that way I could pivot mycareer. I feel like in this
role, I continue to help othersocial workers in the
profession, I'm able to share myknowledge or provide support as
we continue this reallyimportant work. And I think that
(37:32):
SASW has a such an importantrole in giving a voice to social
justice issues, to providingareas of the community that are
in need. And so I'm able tocontinue that role just in
pivoting and doing it incompletely different way. And as
I continue to practice, likeclinical counseling at Ehrlo, I
(37:52):
think that I just continue tolearn and grow. I think that's
really important in social work.
Like I said, that's why I loveSocial Work at the end of the
day is that there's so manydifferent areas you can go into.
So I just can feel like Icontinue to gather information
and underlying no just helppeople it might be just in
different various roles indifferent ways.
Brad Fraser (38:11):
Oh, absolutely. And Karen, I see a smile this
throughout that entire timethere.
Karen Wasylenka (38:17):
Well, I wanted to to add that. When I was as
soon as I was eligible to becomea SASW member, I became an SASW
member. It was important to meto be part of a profession. And
it was it was really importantto me. And being involved in
(38:39):
SASW. And I've been I've youknow, been a member for many,
many years, opened many doors ofopportunities for me that I
might not have had. I was eagerto join committees, and I worked
on a number of committees thatagain, provided it you know, it
opens new doors and new learningand meeting new people and
(39:03):
working with others and helpingto kind of understand, you know,
the, the whole area of socialwork and social work
organizations. And I so Iparticipated as much as I could,
and was a great benefit to menever in my wildest dreams did I
(39:26):
ever think I would be theExecutive Director of SASW. That
certainly wasn't in my plan. Butmy involvement certainly
throughout the years, I guessmaybe led me to this to this
path. And it is very stern havementioned it's a different
aspect of social work, but avery important aspect of social
(39:50):
work. But that's why I encourageeveryone who's a member to get
involved in the association.
Students and registered socialworkers because it It does open
doors. It's that networking.
It's that support is thoselearning opportunities that are
so helpful to us.
Brad Fraser (40:08):
Well, I want to thank both of you for joining us
today and for just giving ofyour time and a little bit more
about how students can learnabout this important area of
social work.
Karen Wasylenka (40:18):
Well, thank you so much for inviting us and
anyone who would likeinformation on SASW please don't
hesitate to contact us.
Jenna Hesse (40:28):
Thank you for your time. This has been wonderful to
chat with everybody.
Brad Fraser (40:33):
Thank you again to our guests from The Saskatchewan
Association of Social Work.
Karen Wasylenka and Jenna Hesse.
Please subscribe to the podcast,if you haven't already, to be
automatically notified when thesecond part of our episode on
Social work and Private Practiceis published.
This podcast is brought to youby the University of Regina
Faculty of Social Work, go towww.uregina.ca/socialwork to
(40:58):
find out more about the program.
The views Information andopinions expressed in this
podcast do not necessarilyrepresent the views of our
sponsors.
Hello and welcome to the Social Work Beginnings
(00:01):
podcast. Social Work Beginningsis a student hosted podcast
engaging with instructors,agencies and members of the
Social Work community in Canada.
As we strive to learn to becomeeffective social workers at the
beginning of our careers, weseek to amplify the ongoing work
to advance social justice inCanada within social work. This
podcast was born out of a desireto equitably increase the
(00:23):
accessibility of opportunity tolearn outside the classroom
about our diverse field.
Next on the Social WorkBeginnings podcast as we focus
on Social Work Week, we have aspecial two part episode on
Social Work and Private Practicein Saskatchewan. In part one,
our guests are Karen Wasylenkaand Jenna Hesse.
(00:45):
Karen is a registered SocialWorker with a Master's degree in
Social Work from the Universityof Regina. Karen worked for 30
years in the Ministry of SocialServices, primarily in Child and
Family Services in a variety ofroles across the southern part
of the province. Karen has beenthe executive director of SASW
since 2016, and has been asessional lecturer with the
University of Regina, Faculty ofSocial Work since 2006. Jenna is
(01:09):
a registered Social Worker witha Master's degree in social
work, also from the Universityof Regina. Jenna has worked at
the Ministry of Social Servicesin the area of child protection,
as a clinical caseworker atRanch Ehrlo Society, and is
currently a contract counselorat Ehrlo counseling services.
Jenna has over 10 years ofexperience providing counseling
services to children, youth,adults, families and group
(01:32):
settings. In June 2022, Jennastarted with SASW in the role of
member support, coordinator, andadvocacy. This has allowed Jenna
to connect and support socialworkers who are engaged in
various areas of practice, andassist those who volunteer with
SASW.
Thank you for both of you beinghere today. Karen, it was
(01:54):
awesome to chat with you on thephone a little bit beforehand.
And I got pretty excited aboutyou being here.
Karen Wasylenka (02:01):
Well, thank you so much for the invitation to
participate in this.
Brad Fraser (02:05):
Yeah, you're very welcome. And Jenna, I'm excited
to get to know a little bitabout your perspective as well.
Jenna Hesse (02:10):
I'm excited to be here. I'm a huge fan of
podcasts. So I think this is agreat medium to share with
students. So awesome.
Brad Fraser (02:17):
Yeah, thank you. So when students get together to
kind of brainstorm (02:20):
"hey, what can we do on the podcast?" where
there's some things that we'dwant to know about, private
practice is one of those thingsthat keeps coming up. I'm not
sure if it was maybe thepandemic, or maybe it's just
this ongoing thread of beinginterested in how we can help
deliver mental health servicesin whatever way, private
practice keeps coming up. Soinitially, Karen, could you
maybe talk about, a bit aboutmaybe, what does it take to
(02:43):
deliver therapy in Saskatchewanas a Registered Social Worker.
Karen Wasylenka (02:47):
So as a Registered Social Worker, many
Social Workers are working foran agency, and maybe doing in
depth counseling or clinicalwork, which would come under the
umbrella of therapy. You know,the word therapy is a pretty
broad word, what does it, whatdoes it mean? What is clinical
(03:09):
social work and so on, in thosecircumstances, when working in
an agency or with, you know, theHealth Authority or another
agency, the training and therequirements for doing that work
are set by the employer. So itis the role of the employer to
(03:31):
determine, you know, what is itthat I need in terms of training
to take on this particular role?
SASW as the licensing body forsocial workers doesn't set
standards around, you know, whatis the requirement in terms of
specific education to do thattype of work?
Brad Fraser (03:57):
Okay, yeah. And I think that's one of the
interesting things that comesout of, you know, for students
is we're sitting in theclassroom and we're thinking of,
okay, what's that next step iswe complicate and then look to
register it? What does that looklike? Are we because we're, if
we're going to end up indifferent places, from an
employment standpoint, it soundslike you're saying, Karen, that
actually the requirements may bedifferent for training based off
(04:17):
that employer.
Karen Wasylenka (04:19):
Well, our our social work program at the
University of Regina prepares usfor generalist practice. And a
generalist practice is a greatthing because it means that we
can go into a wide range ofareas to work in, but in most of
(04:39):
the jobs that one goes into,there's always additional
training and very specificlearnings that are required for
that particular role. As anexample, I spent many years in
the child protection system andcoming out of you know, the BSW
(04:59):
program I certainly didn't know,all that was required of doing
child protection work. I learnedthat on the job.The employer
provided that training for me.
And so you know, that's that'swhat happens in, you know, in
the world of social work.
Brad Fraser (05:16):
Right, yeah, absolutely. Now, Jenna, you were
telling me before we hit recordthat you are doing some, was it
contract work specifically?
Jenna Hesse (05:24):
Yes. So after I received my Master's in Social
Work degree, from the U of R, Iwas a clinical caseworker at
Ranch Ehrlo Society for about 10years. After that, I decided to
work part-time and move into acontract role at Ehrlo
Counseling. So that way Iprovide individual family and
(05:46):
group counseling in that privatekind of setting to members of
the community.
Brad Fraser (05:53):
Okay, yeah. So it sounds like there's a bit of a
journey along the way, nodifferent than care and have,
you're just stacking additionalopportunities to build that
education, build that capacity,and kind of grow along to the
point where you started to dothat contract work?
Jenna Hesse (06:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
Part of my role at Ranch Ehrlo,previously, as a clinical
caseworker was that clinicalpiece where I was providing
counseling, but then moving intoEhrlo counseling, that's
strictly my role is just acounseling position now.
Brad Fraser (06:20):
Okay, for sure. And when we were talking a little
bit as students, when I wasasking a few of them, hey, like,
what do you think about privatepractice? What do you know about
it? Honestly, that there waslike, a lot of blank
expressions. And it was me too,before I started to do the
research. And so do you either,if you have some thoughts, and
they'll start with you, Karen onlike, if you go into private
(06:42):
practice, where it's really you,just you it's you're not working
for someone else, like Jen is,is a contractor, you're opening
your own private practice, whatmight change?
Karen Wasylenka (06:53):
Well, I think there's a, there's a lot of a
lot of changes. And I want tobegin by saying that we
certainly have seen a rise inthe number of social workers who
are going into private practice.
And some of that comes as aresult of the pandemic. Because
we worked from home, we learnedto deliver services in a new way
(07:14):
using technology. And it openedthe door or opened our eyes a
little bit, maybe, to what somepossibilities are. And it can be
attractive, we can set our ownhours, we can work out of our
home, or we can have our office,we don't have to report into,
(07:35):
you know, a boss or go throughgovernment bureaucracy in terms
of, you know, all the thingsthat we might have to do,
working in a large agency. Andthat, you know, that does
appeared and is certainly abenefit for someone who's
contemplating private practice,getting to choose who we work
(07:57):
with, when you're in privatepractice, you, you know, offer
your services, and you canchoose your who uses your
services, you can choose whatservices you do provide and what
areas you work within. Butthere's another side to private
practice that sometimes we don'tthink about at the very
(08:18):
beginning. Because when you'rein private practice, you are
self employed, you're in abusiness, you're also running a
business. And when you run abusiness, there are many things
that you need to think about.
What you know, there's the wholeidea, not the idea, but the fact
(08:40):
that you need to establish fees.
That's where your income comesfrom. It's not an employer
paycheck, you charge yourservice users a fee. And what is
that? How do you establish thefeet? And so then you have to
worry about all of the thingslike income tax and benefits.
(09:01):
And what about pension? Do youwork out of your own home? What
about office space? How do youkeep your records? How are your
records kept, so that they'reconfidential, what happens to
your records, if you leaveprivate practice? There are
many, many, you know, of thosebusiness aspects that become
(09:22):
really complicated. And associal workers, you know, we
haven't been trained to thinkthat way. We've been trained on
how to work with people, butoften not how to think about the
business aspect, needing to haveliability insurance and have all
of the insurance, thingscovered. It. It's pretty
(09:44):
extensive in terms of that wholebusiness side. And it is really,
really important. Anotherconsideration is that when we're
working in an agency, we havecolleagues around us. And we
have supervisors. And we havemanagers. And so when we come up
against a problem, or, or maybea situation that we're not sure
(10:08):
what we should do, you know, yougo to your coworker, you talk to
your supervisor, you get someadvice, you look at your agency
policy, what do I need to orwhat should I do, and you have
that support around you, whenyou're in private practice, it's
not there automatically, youhave to set that up on on your
(10:30):
own. And under the SASW,standards of practice, social
workers need to havesupervision, we have to have
supervision, which keeps us ontrack to make sure that we are
acting ethically, and notengaged in relationships that we
shouldn't be, or that we'redoing something that might be
(10:53):
considered misconduct. So inprivate practice, one needs to
find a supervisor. And sometimesthat means paying for that
supervision, having a networkaround so that you can, you
know, bounce ideas off in aconfidential way, of course. And
so some of those things, youknow, are not what we encounter
(11:17):
in working in a other agency,other community agency, or
private or public agency, ratheror public, private agency, I
suppose. But when you're alonein private practice, you have to
set all of those things. So wasthere anything you would add to
(11:38):
that?
Jenna Hesse (11:40):
No, I think you answered that beautifully. I
think the main point, too, thatyou ended on was that consult, I
think that when you are in acounseling setting, and in
private practice, you never knowwhere that conversation is going
to steer, you might bet and dothe intake process, thinking you
know what you're walking into,but you never really do. So if
(12:00):
you in those situations, youneed that consult, you need to
be able to kind of bounce thoseideas off experts and people
with different backgrounds andareas of expertise. So I think
that's really important to saythat you you need to have that
consult piece is very importantfor for the best interest of
your client, I think there'sthat safety piece to that you
(12:20):
need to think of, you know,like, we're dealing with
delicate situations with clientsthat are maybe in really
difficult places in their life.
And so really monitoring yoursafety and how you're going to
set up your private practicewould be would be important to
notice, well.
Brad Fraser (12:38):
It's interesting, as you both talk about these
lists of things, because a lotof these, I guess, resources and
steps, for example, supervision,these different policies, a lot
of these are kind ofautomatically in place as
students are going into, forexample, practicum placements,
you're learning about a policyare automatically given
supervision, these are allthings that not that we take it
(13:00):
for granted the students, but Ithink that structure is already
there. And so walking into thatstructure, sets us up for
success and sets the people thatwe're going to be working with
that for that same success. Andso what I hear both of you
talking about is that privatepractice is this amazing
opportunity to focus onparticular service users and
working in a very specific way.
But it involves a lot ofcreation of structure that's
(13:22):
well beyond just the workingwith the actual individual. If
you had, for example, done this,perhaps in a previous role.
Karen Wasylenka (13:32):
I think too, it, it requires having
considerable experience andskill in a particular area. You
know, private practitionersusually have a specific area
that they that they work withinand specific services that they
(13:54):
that they deliver. And as asJenna talked about, you know,
kind of being alone and nothaving that support network
around you. It requires havingexperience and confidence that
you can do, handle I guess, whatcomes your way. Absolutely. You
(14:18):
may need to console consult withsomeone or may need to, you
know, get some supervision andadvice, but you have that, that
confidence that you've got lotsof experience behind you. And
that will help you in your work.
Doing private practice.
Brad Fraser (14:37):
Yeah, absolutely.
And that specialization, youknow, when I think about what
you said earlier, Karen aboutthat generalized social work
degree that the University ofRegina provides, are there
specific things that whether itis the SASW or both of you, as
registered social workers, thinkabout in terms of what can you
do after your Bachelor of SocialWork to kind of move beyond
(14:59):
that, to build up thoseexperiences.
Karen Wasylenka (15:04):
First of all, if you're a registered social
worker in Saskatchewan, in orderto renew your license every
year, you need to have 40 hoursof continuing professional
development. So we need to do 40hours of education every year,
(15:25):
in order to keep up our skillsand keep current with new
information and new techniquesand so on. Those who are in
private practice usually havesome additional courses or
certifications, additional veryspecialized training that
(15:46):
they've gained through aparticular institution or
particular deliverer of that,that type of training. And, you
know, have that certificationthat they are competent and
skilled in providing thatservice and and using that
treatment modality.
Jenna Hesse (16:07):
I think when you enter into private practice or
the counseling field, you reallywant to ask yourself, like,
Where does your expertise lie?
And what services are youqualified to be providing to
your clients. And when you'relooking for continuing education
opportunities, you really wantto ask yourself, Do I want to
specialize in a specific area ora specific clientele. That way,
you can really guide your paththat way. So if that's looking
(16:30):
into additional trainings, suchas CBT, cognitive behavioral
therapy, or motivationalinterviewing, or even are in
play therapy, expertise,certificates, things like that,
I know that that SASW provides alot of opportunity for
continuing education. On ourwebsite, there's different links
that can connect you to thingsin the community for specialized
(16:52):
training, if that's somethingyou're interested in, or such as
trauma or depression, anxiety,things like that, or what's new
for SASW is we've startedsomething called the speaker
series. So approximately eachmonth, we're trying to do it
monthly, we have variousspeakers that come on and share
(17:13):
different information. And it'sa free opportunity for
registered social workers toattend. Usually, it's been over
a lunch and learn but thingsthat I'm planning in the future
might be in the evening, thingslike that. But it's to provide
the opportunity to gather moreinformation and really grow and
learn and build our practice inan extensive way.
Karen Wasylenka (17:38):
I just might add on to that, as well, as a
registered social worker inSaskatchewan, we are a member of
the Canadian Association ofSocial Workers, which is the
Federation of Associationsacross Canada, it's a national
organization. And the CanadianAssociation of Social Workers
(18:00):
does a large number of webinars.
And some of them are veryspecific to areas of practice.
And so there are lots oflearning opportunities that are
provided through registrationwith SASW.
Jenna Hesse (18:21):
Just to add to that, sorry, too Karen, with the
CASW I forgot to add to was thatthey do have that Private
Practice Portal on there aswell. So if you're interested in
private practice, you can gointo their portal, and they have
a ton of different guides. Soeven with continuing education,
if you were looking at if youwant to really define your
private practice, they do have achecklist so that you can go off
(18:45):
and check your specializationsto kind of like really guide you
of what you're interested in, orwhere you can learn and grow. So
they have a lot of differenttools on there that are useful.
Karen Wasylenka (18:54):
Yes.
Brad Fraser (18:55):
No, that's awesome.
And we can link to all of thosein the podcast notes. So for the
listeners wanting to check eachof those out, be sure to check
the podcast notes in the webpage. Now, you've talked about
registered social workers havingaccess to that my understanding
is students that register aswell would also then have access
to some of these opportunities,depending on the scope of what's
being delivered.
Karen Wasylenka (19:17):
Yes, certainly, students who are members of SASW
absolutely do have access tothese resources.
Brad Fraser (19:24):
Awesome. No, that's great. I know, that's one of the
things that as students you'realways trying to think about,
okay, I'm learning about this inthe classroom. I'm learning
about this in the field. But nowwhat does it look like to really
kind of dive deep on maybe oneof these specific things and
webinars are such an accessibleway for students to try and
quickly fit that into whateveris a busy schedules. And so I
think that's absolutely amazing.
Is there any webinar, I'm goingto put you both on the spot,
(19:47):
that you've experienced the lastcouple of years that stands out
to you that you get reallyexcited about or maybe one
that's upcoming really soon?
Karen Wasylenka (20:01):
One that really stands out to me. And my
apologies, I don't recall thename of it, but it was one on
working in indigenouscommunities.
There has been a number ofwebinars related to
reconciliation and so on. Andsome of them are, well they are
(20:25):
all excellent. Absolutely.
They're all excellent. But oneone really did stand out to me,
but sorry, I can't remember thename of it. But there there are
lots there.
Jenna Hesse (20:38):
Yeah, I think things that have stood out to me
in the past are things abouttrauma and about, like I
specialized in CBT. So thingslike that. But in regards to
accessibility for students, forwebinars, and things like that,
with our speaker series, wherewe're posting them on our
website, as well. So we just hadsomebody come in and discuss
(20:58):
into intimate personal violence.
Coming up, we do have theSaskatchewan Acquired Brain
Injury Association presenting,or we do have, I'm in talks with
arranging roundtable discussionto talk about boundaries and
ethics in small communities,things that are just different
interests and different concernsthat you may come across in
(21:18):
various areas of social work,because I know that's why I love
social work so much is that it'sso broad, there's so many
different ways in things thatyou can get into. But yeah, we
make sure we cover our bases bydoing various topics. So yeah,
they should definitely check outthe Facebook page, as well as
our website that we're postingthem on there as well.
Karen Wasylenka (21:40):
I'd like to to go back to resources through the
Canadian Association of SocialWorkers, for students, because
you can set up an account amember account on the CASW
website, which gives you accessto additional information that
isn't on the general website.
And there are a couple of thingsthere related to journal
(22:05):
articles and research thatstudents of course, when writing
papers are always looking for.
The other thing that's on theCASW website that's publicly
available are their positionpapers, and discussion papers on
(22:25):
various social issues, again,for students who might be
writing papers, or for socialworkers who add students who are
engaged in advocacy work. Very,very helpful background
information that is available towork to anyone.
Brad Fraser (22:45):
Oh, absolutely, we'll make sure all of that is
available for students to checkout. And I want to kind of dive
in a little bit more to theseprofessional development
opportunities. And what thatlooks like when you consider an
MSW. Now, Jenna, it's myunderstanding you pursued an MSW
at the University of Regina.
Jenna Hesse (23:06):
Yes, I did. I knew that I wanted to continue. I
loved going to university. Ilove learning and growing. And I
knew that was definitely a stepI wanted to take. So a few years
after completing my BSW, I knewI wanted to begin my MSW. When I
entered in, I actually startedas in the thesis route, thinking
that I wanted to do researchcoming from working at the
(23:28):
Ministry of Social Services, thefoster care system was something
that was greatly on my mind. Butgetting into working at Ranch
Ehrlo in the role of a clinicalcounselor, I do that counseling,
I did that counseling piece. SoI really changed my avenue to do
a practicum route. And I knew Iwanted to focus on clinical
counseling in that. So whendoing the Masters of Social Work
(23:52):
program, there is thestandardized classes that you're
required to take, if that'sretired, or things like that.
However, there was theopportunity to take electives.
And I made sure to pick minewisely. I remember taking a very
intensive ICBT course withNuelle (Dr. Novik) that was very
intensive and really drew meinto specializing in CBT. And
(24:14):
knowing that I really want us todo that counseling route. So I
know that the the University ofRegina has the two, two routes,
you can do the practicum orresearch but I definitely once
in there kind of figured it outand really found my identity of
who I wanted to be as a socialworker.
Brad Fraser (24:32):
Wow, yeah, and you know, Karen, when we've talked
in the past, you've talked abouthow, when you're just looking at
the CASW, they're not actuallyenforcing the regulations, that
is province dependent and so forour students that are looking
at, you know, maybe they're noteven from Saskatchewan, but
they're attending the U of R andthen they're gonna go back to
another province. Everythingwe're talking about today is
(24:53):
very SASW Saskatchewan specificbecause in a different province,
the requirements might becompletely different.
Karen Wasylenka (25:00):
That's correct.
The Canadian Association ofSocial Workers, as I mentioned,
is a national federation ofassociations of social workers.
Each province has legislationthat establishes the Social Work
body to govern the practice ofsocial work or the title of
(25:22):
social work in each province. Soevery province has somewhat
different legislation andpolicies. So they have different
requirements for registration,different requirements for
continuing professionaleducation.
Most you know, they're somewhatsimilar, but they are, they are,
(25:44):
you know, different. One of thethings that we've realized over
the last couple of years, again,related to the increased use of
technology, private practice, isthat social workers, of course,
are practicing acrossjurisdictions. And this has
really raised the questionsabout so if I'm registered
(26:07):
social worker in Saskatchewan,can I provide services to
someone in Alberta over overzoom. And the answer to that is
that you need to go to theAlberta College of Social
Workers, and find out what theirrequirements are because you are
(26:28):
providing services to someonewho's in Alberta, and so come
under their, their jurisdiction.
So every province is a littlebit different. And each province
has their own separate standardsof practice. In Saskatchewan,
registered social workers followthe code of ethics and the
(26:48):
guidelines for ethical practice,that are, have been developed by
the Canadian Association ofSocial Workers. And then we have
standards of practice forregistered social workers in
Saskatchewan. And there are moredetails. They are specific to
Saskatchewan, and correspond tothe code of ethics and the
(27:12):
guidelines for practice, butthey are very specific to our
province.
Brad Fraser (27:18):
And so I know, in some other provinces, a Masters
of Social Work is actually kindof the minimum to do private
practice. And that's the case insome provinces. But today, I
know you've said that's not thecase versus Saskatchewan. Do you
ever see that changing sometimein the future?
Karen Wasylenka (27:36):
There certainly has been lots of discussion.
And, you know, recently, but butalso in the past about what
should the requirements so besafe for private practice. And
the you know, the CanadianAssociation of Social Workers
may provide information on bestpractices. But again, the the
(27:59):
regulation and standards restswith each provincial
jurisdiction. So inSaskatchewan, we don't have any
standards that say that you haveto have a MSW to do private
practice. We do in ourstandards, though, say that in
whatever services you'reproviding, you need to be
(28:21):
skilled and competent, and havethis training to to provide
that, that service. So you know,that's, that's what our
standards say, you know, we havelots of discussions about should
there be, you know, should therebe more standards or not? And,
(28:42):
and I'm sure those discussionswill will continue for for some
time.
Brad Fraser (28:48):
Absolutely. And I know, Jenna, you were just
telling us about how you chosesome opportunities with your
electives, specifically in yourMSW that perhaps steered you
even more towards particulartechniques and things you use
now?
Jenna Hesse (29:01):
Absolutely, you can definitely pick your electives
to really fit what you wouldlike to do your areas of
interest. Another big piece isthat practicum piece because to
have that level of supervisionand guidance in your your,
that's very rare to get thatwhen you starting a job, you
know, so to start my counselingjourney, by having a
(29:24):
practitioner sit in with me, orvideotape them and monitor them
after, and go through them allwith me was a huge opportunity.
And I cannot imagine practicingwithout that experience.
Brad Fraser (29:37):
Absolutely. I know whenever I've talked to people
that are currently in the fielddoing the type of work that
you're doing. It's amazing howmuch we keep coming back to the
topics that come up today aboutongoing professional
development, the certification,they need to have very
specialized experience becausewhen people are seeking out
someone in private practice,there's this, I would argue,
maybe added additionalexpectation of that
(29:57):
specialization that you're goingto have that capacity. And so
that's whether that's throughyou individually, or perhaps the
person that supervising you, Isee it as something that we can
ultimately make sure that we'reproviding for the people seeking
the service. And as you've said,Karen, there's always that
backstop that as social workers,we're holding that value of
competency. How do we make surethat that is happening? First
(30:18):
and foremost, no matter where wesit BSW, MSW, Doctorate, it
doesn't ultimately matter onthat spectrum, we're maintaining
that code of ethics, regardlessof where we are.
Karen Wasylenka (30:29):
I think that's important to consider this and
think about it from theperspective of those who are
accessing services and usingservices. I think that's really
important that we we don't losesight of that, under the social
workers act, SASW has a duty toprotect the public interest. And
(30:51):
we do that by setting therequirements for registration,
the requirements for annualrenewals of licenses, our
requirements for continuingprofessional development, and as
well having a process to respondto complaints of unethical
(31:11):
behavior or misconduct by socialworkers. So that the public has
some recourse if a social workerisn't competent, or has been
doing something that is, or maybe unethical, that is a duty
that SASW has. And so we have toalso keep that in our in our
(31:33):
minds, there's there's reasonsfor ensuring that registered
social workers have thecompetencies and skills to do
what they are providing.
Brad Fraser (31:48):
Absolutely, I know, that's the thing that gets me
excited about being a BSWstudent is there's that
opportunity to immediately be apart of a profession upon
graduating. That's not somethingyou get with every undergrad,
you know, a university degree,you can have a lot of interests,
and you can do that bachelordegree, but the opportunity to
enter into something that givesyou such an opportunity for
(32:08):
continued learning, but in animmediate standard that the
public can trust, and that youcan then learn your way, as part
of that community of socialworkers is something that I
think is such an excitingopportunity not just for
students to join, butultimately, as you've said,
Karen, for the public to be ableto trust is there as a whole,
not just for that one individualwho has that registered social
(32:31):
worker accreditation. Is thereanything either of you would
like to talk about that wehaven't talked about so far?
Jenna Hesse (32:37):
I don't think so. I think that you really covered a
lot of areas that that ourdiscussion points when
discussing private practice, Ithink that was an area that is
much needed. Our community needsclinicians to help when working
through mental health issues ordifficult times in our life. But
it's something that it should bediscussed and have caution with
(33:00):
proceeding because it is we'reworking with people that are
vulnerable, and are expectingpeople to act in a professional
way and support them throughthese difficult times. So I
think it's a great discussion tohave. And I think that we're so
lucky to be a part of the fieldof social work to help these
individuals.
Brad Fraser (33:18):
Absolutely. And Karen, perhaps I saw light bulb
there.
Karen Wasylenka (33:22):
You did, you did. One of the other benefits
of being a licensed socialworker or registered social
worker in Saskatchewan, when wewere talking about private
practice, and needing to havesupervision and consultation. We
have a practice ethics committeethat will respond to inquiries
(33:51):
or requests for consultationfrom any registered social
worker, whether they are inprivate practice or not, when
they have an ethical dilemmathat they you know, are really
challenged by in terms of how toresolve and may have, you know,
you may have consulted with asupervisor or colleague, but you
(34:12):
still have the ethical dilemmaand want to maybe get some
additional guidance. And ourpractice Ethics Committee, which
is made up of members of SASWwith lots of experience will
respond to those ethicalinquiries or or consults.
Sometimes we get inquiries inthe office members who call to
(34:34):
the office and say, I'm justwondering about this or, you
know, what does our staff whatdo our standards say about this?
And so it is a benefit of havingsome of that support in terms of
practice to our members.
Brad Fraser (34:50):
Absolutely, no, that's I think something is
students. You can get so caughtup in the next essay to write,
in the next critical reflection,continuing to navigate how
you're on social locationeffects, all of these very
important things to think about.
And it can be easy to, maybeperhaps forget, that there's
this whole community of peoplethat have done exactly what
(35:10):
you're doing, and have gonethrough that very, atleast
similar, journey. And that youcan enter into that knowing that
you have people to partner with,and that you're never really
alone in that. So I guess I'lljust finish there, Jenna, when
when you were thinking aboutgetting into social work, and we
were thinking about, maybe like,why social work? Is there
(35:31):
anything that comes to mind whenyou're like, Yeah, this is what
like, was my why and continuesto be your why today.
Jenna Hesse (35:39):
I think at the end of the day, I entered into
social work to help people andknew that I had an interest of
connecting with various peoplein different communities,
different backgrounds. And Ithink at the end of the day, I
just wanted to help and serveand do better, you know, and so
I think that yeah, absolutely. Ijust wanted to help people.
Brad Fraser (36:02):
And I want to pull a little bit more on that,
though, because I think when yousay help people, it's really
cool to see if how, like, aswe've talked to you today,
there's all these different waysthat you were helping people,
right, like it was never onestatic thing. And I think that's
something that if you couldmaybe just quickly expand on
about how that help has lookeddifferent throughout your career
so far. And then now workingwith SASW, to actually help
(36:26):
fellow members?
Jenna Hesse (36:28):
Absolutely. I think I entered into social work, like
right out of high school,knowing that I just wanted to
help people. That's my area ofinterest, for sure. But as I
developed and learned more, Idecided that an area of interest
was really like adolescents andyouth working at the Ministry of
Social Services, like I said,seeing the foster care system.
(36:48):
And then entering into my workat Ranch Ehrlo definitely
working with, with adolescentsand youth who have challenging
backgrounds, and trauma, reallyhelping them and guiding them
having that stable person intheir life being able to help
them throughout these difficulttimes. And then, as I continued
throughout my career, it wasthat underlying that I wanted to
(37:10):
help people. And that's why whenI saw that, a position SASW came
up, I thought that was acompletely different area. And
that way I could pivot mycareer. I feel like in this
role, I continue to help othersocial workers in the
profession, I'm able to share myknowledge or provide support as
we continue this reallyimportant work. And I think that
(37:32):
SASW has a such an importantrole in giving a voice to social
justice issues, to providingareas of the community that are
in need. And so I'm able tocontinue that role just in
pivoting and doing it incompletely different way. And as
I continue to practice, likeclinical counseling at Ehrlo, I
(37:52):
think that I just continue tolearn and grow. I think that's
really important in social work.
Like I said, that's why I loveSocial Work at the end of the
day is that there's so manydifferent areas you can go into.
So I just can feel like Icontinue to gather information
and underlying no just helppeople it might be just in
different various roles indifferent ways.
Brad Fraser (38:11):
Oh, absolutely. And Karen, I see a smile this
throughout that entire timethere.
Karen Wasylenka (38:17):
Well, I wanted to to add that. When I was as
soon as I was eligible to becomea SASW member, I became an SASW
member. It was important to meto be part of a profession. And
it was it was really importantto me. And being involved in
(38:39):
SASW. And I've been I've youknow, been a member for many,
many years, opened many doors ofopportunities for me that I
might not have had. I was eagerto join committees, and I worked
on a number of committees thatagain, provided it you know, it
opens new doors and new learningand meeting new people and
(39:03):
working with others and helpingto kind of understand, you know,
the, the whole area of socialwork and social work
organizations. And I so Iparticipated as much as I could,
and was a great benefit to menever in my wildest dreams did I
(39:26):
ever think I would be theExecutive Director of SASW. That
certainly wasn't in my plan. Butmy involvement certainly
throughout the years, I guessmaybe led me to this to this
path. And it is very stern havementioned it's a different
aspect of social work, but avery important aspect of social
(39:50):
work. But that's why I encourageeveryone who's a member to get
involved in the association.
Students and registered socialworkers because it It does open
doors. It's that networking.
It's that support is thoselearning opportunities that are
so helpful to us.
Brad Fraser (40:08):
Well, I want to thank both of you for joining us
today and for just giving ofyour time and a little bit more
about how students can learnabout this important area of
social work.
Karen Wasylenka (40:18):
Well, thank you so much for inviting us and
anyone who would likeinformation on SASW please don't
hesitate to contact us.
Jenna Hesse (40:28):
Thank you for your time. This has been wonderful to
chat with everybody.
Brad Fraser (40:33):
Thank you again to our guests from The Saskatchewan
Association of Social Work.
Karen Wasylenka and Jenna Hesse.
Please subscribe to the podcast,if you haven't already, to be
automatically notified when thesecond part of our episode on
Social work and Private Practiceis published.
This podcast is brought to youby the University of Regina
Faculty of Social Work, go towww.uregina.ca/socialwork to
(40:58):
find out more about the program.
The views Information andopinions expressed in this
podcast do not necessarilyrepresent the views of our
sponsors.
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